My Journey Into & Out Of Calvinism
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- What attracted me toward accepting Calvinism and what were the reasons it all completely unraveled latter on...
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I was delivered out of Calvanism today! I feel like I am born again-again, delivered and free-If you are reading this. THE REAL GOD LOVES YOU ❤️,
Praise God!
David. You’re commentary so well put. Calvinism had me hypnotized and miserable for several years.
I began to hate the god of Calvinism.
But then learned. This god of Calvinism doesn’t exist.
The God of the Bible does exist.
He loves all His creatures. And wants all to know Him. Desires no one to perish
So well put! This god of Calvinism doesn't exist. The God of the Bible does.
I think they are bewitched, as the apostle Paul calls it. That means in a trance, or under a spell. When I hear them speak, I think they appear to be in a trance. That is what Satan does. He controls and manipulates. But, Calvinists call that evil spirit "God."
I was recently delivered out of Calvinism and this was so so so good! Completely accurate with what the Lord kept putting in front of me that made me question & back peddle my Calvinistic beliefs! I can’t wait to share this. Thank you so much Brother! God bless you abundantly! 🙏🏽🕊
I love that you used the word “delivered.” I love all my Calvinist brothers and usually seek to pray for their deliverance from the fires of double-predestination and total depravity lol
@@Marshall.2319 Double predestination? Total Depravity? Who are you talking about? CH Spurgeon, John Piper, John Bunyan, Martyn Lloyd Jones, JC Ryle, Isaac Watts. You really must not know much about Calvinism. There's not a single doubt that these men were used by God during their lifetime. Just Wow.
@@born2win259 Yes God is merciful to still use fallen men that preach a doctrine of demons.
Has absolutely nothing to do with them.
@@apilkey God is merciful to use fallen men that preach a doctrine of demons? Yeah not sure what you’re one my friend but that is definitely a false statement.
@@born2win259 I meant God is merciful to bring good out of any circumstance.
Philippians 1:15-18
15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
I don’t believe in ism’s. I believe in Christ!
Period!
@@MichaelTheophilus906 I believe in the Biblical truth of The Trinity. Father, Son, Holy Ghost.
My brother, you just now described my life into and from Calvinism. Amazing testimony, God bless.
I have no problem being Calvinist but I haven’t been chosen to be one yet....gold...😂😂😂
LOL.. If Calvinism is true (and it isn't) I've been predestined not to believe it. If it isn't... there is still hope for those who think it it.
Brother, you did this three years ago, I'm watching it now and been edified. This has been my journey too. With love from Zambia.
I wonder why it is an automatic response from people when I say I am not a Calvinist, to say, “Oh you are Armenian.” Who decided that would be my only choices. I was raised Catholic, but the Lord protected my heart and mind from accepting much bad doctrine. Then I married a back slidden baptist (at 18) and his Grandma (very Calvinist) told me I could never be saved or go to heaven because I was born doomed. Wow, some gospel she believed in.
No, not Armenian but Arminian. An Armenian is a citizen of Armenia, whichbis a country.
Calvinist pigeon hole people so they can apply there prepared/memorized/learned arguments. Their world is divided into Calvinists, Arminians, and Pelagians, that's it. Once they can label you they know which script to use.
There is NO Gospel "Good News" in Calvinism. Not for their "elect" who were created 'saved' from the foundation of the world, so they are not really saved from anything. And they are certainly not in need Christ's sacrifice. The hope of Calvin's "elect" is in their 'election to salvation.. (whether or not the were really picked).. more than in Christ. For what they believe today about Christ is only a matter of God's imposition and it might not really be real, in which case it may change tomorrow morning ( and episode of Evanescent Grace). They are not saved because of what they believe, their 'salvation' occurs before they believe anything, but definition... regeneration precedes faith.
And there is no Good News for the 'reprobate' who will bust hell wide open without a prayer regardless of what Christ did.
@@Tax_Buster thank you..
I myself am an arminian.. but I agree with that statement..not all non Calvinist people are Arminians..
@@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT It is not Calvin's elect. It is God's elect!
@@edsnyder2801 actually in the context it would be Calvin's elect because biblically there is no instance that establishes anyone was ever elected to be saved. Election is always to service whether group or individual. Those who believe on Jesus under their salvation are sealed in him after they believe by the Holy Spirit and they are elect because of their position in Christ at that time. Calvin's definition of election is unbiblical and unsupported in Scripture. The closest passage is Acts 13:48 but the Assumption has to be made that God was doing the ordaining but that is not stated in the text and the word tosso is simply appointing placing in order and God is not the subject oh any verb in that verse.
Finally, I know where you're coming from theologically. I have been so confused as to where you are/were theologically,. Thanks so much for sharing your journey into and out of Reformed theology; however, I think that you could probably expand even more on upcoming vlogs. All of this from a reformed guy who remains in the bond of christian love to you. I thank you!
Thank you David! I'm traveling the same path and needed to hear this.
man david those last part from 21 minutes i watched that 3 times in a row.. its such a beautiful truth that i need..
as a addicted sinner without much hope left..
it give a little hope with that thankss
Big thanks for this video and the Greatest Thanks to our Lord Jesus! Thanks for your humitly and honesty. Your background was very very similar to mine. Your encouragment, edification and hope is exactly what I needed to hear. I remember saying a year ago, “I think I’m a calvinist.” Not until yesterday can I say, “I know I’m Not!” (Side Note) I lived in KC for 10 years and only stepped foot in IHOP twice I think, but I also wasn’t born again either. I was an alcoholic struggling to make peace with my guilt instead of making Peace with Jesus. Two years ago my rebellion against Him ceased and sincerely asked Him into my heart. The next morning I woke up and the craving and addiction was gone!…completely Gone!…and has stayed Gone! There’s no greater redemptive power than the Blood Of Jesus!
Praise God for your deliverance and testimony!
Yup Paul Washer had me too. I still prefer listening to him over most Calvinist teachers. I think it’s because he doesn’t dwell on the systematic aspect as much. I had a few friends that led me out of Calvinism and Leighton Flowers was quite helpful as well. I still don’t believe we can lose our salvation but without a Calvinist mindset, I’m no longer afraid of thinking I’m not good enough to have ever been saved. It’s all by his grace which is saturated in agape love. Praise Jesus!
One thing I think is important, which took me awhile to adhere, was a bitterness in my heart towards Calvinism and those involved. But I’ve learned to treat them as brothers and sisters in the faith, the same way i do my Armenian friends. Thanks for your testimony, I could relate a lot with it!
Irresistible grace was what did it for me. God's grace is not forceful. When we put adjectives in front of biblical terms, It changes the definition of that term.
Grace is undeserved favor
Love you bro, while I lean Calvinist, I still have no problem reading Arminian writings such as Tozer. There is lots to learn from others, and I'd say one of the greatest problems with the church is that many cannot accept doctrinal differences between other faithful believers.
Derek Gates I think that’s because were told to be United with the brothern .
It’s not a “doctrinal difference” between the Truth of God’s Word and Calvinism.
Calvinism is a false gospel not just a doctrinal difference we can sweep under the rug.
@@apilkey Okay, you have changed my mind.
@@dgates1555 Reformed theology is NOT the Gospel.
Gospel means GOOD NEWS.
You can’t preach the gospel to every creature unless the gospel is FOR every creature .
Otherwise you’d be preaching a lie or another gospel.
A FALSE gospel.
*You can preach ABOUT the gospel but you can’t actually preach THE GOSPEL.*
You can’t preach GOOD NEWS to those who in their belief system eternally damned to hell before the foundation of the world.
That’s NOT good news that TERRIBLE news.
That’s the OPPOSITE of the Gospel.
Reformed theology is a false gospel.
@@dgates1555
Let them be accursed that preach another gospel.
It’s time to start calling a spade a spade.
...According to Galatians 1:6-9 the gospel is about God’s GRACE and not election to salvation apart from Christ.
Any gospel that preaches election apart from being IN CHRIST is another gospel.
Election in the Father APART FROM CHRIST perverts the gospel:
GALATIANS 1:6-9
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the GRACE OF CHRIST unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would PERVERT THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, LET HIM BE ACCURSED.
9 AS WE SAID BEFORE, SO SAY I NOW AGAIN, IF ANY MAN PREACH ANY OTHER GOSPEL UNTO YOU THAN THAT YE HAVE RECEIVED, LET HIM BE ACCURSED.
*Calvinism cannot truly and in all godly sincerity preach GRACE to every man; therefore it is NOT the gospel and must be rejected.*
Bible believers on the other hand can unashamedly preach GRACE to EVERYONE knowing with confidence that Christ died for them.
The very saving grace that is available to ALL in Titus 2:11:
TITUS 2:11
11 FOR THE GRACE OF GOD THAT BRINGETH SALVATION HATH APPEARED TO ALL MEN,
*CALVINISM PREACHES ANOTHER GOSPEL*
************************************
What is the Gospel?
It’s the GOOD NEWS of Christ’s DEATH, BURIAL and RESURRECTION.
*We must ask ourselves do we believe or preach another gospel than that which we’ve received?*
...According to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 this is the Gospel WE HAVE RECEIVED:
1 CORINTHIANS 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I DECLARE UNTO YOU THE GOSPEL WHICH I PREACHED UNTO YOU, WHICH ALSO YE HAVE RECEIVED, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, HOW THAT CHRIST DIED FOR OUR SINS according to the scriptures;
4 And THAT HE WAS BURIED, and THAT HE ROSE AGAIN the third day according to the scriptures:
It’s GOOD NEWS.
It’s GOD’S GRACE.
It’s JESUS CHRIST.
It’s FAITH.
It’s PEACE.
It’s RECONCILIATION.
*CALVINISM PREACHES ANOTHER GOSPEL*
************************************
...According to Galatians 1:23 Paul preached FAITH after he got knocked off his high horse.
The very FAITH he once destroyed:
GALATIANS 1:23
23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now PREACHETH THE FAITH which once he destroyed.
*Calvinism cannot truly and in all godly sincerity preach FAITH to EVERY MAN; therefore it is NOT the gospel and must be rejected.*
*CALVINISM PREACHES ANOTHER GOSPEL*
************************************
... According to Romans 10:8 Paul preached the word of FAITH that with the heart man believes unto righteousness that WHOSOEVER believes will not be ashamed:
ROMANS 10:8
8 But what saith it? THE WORD IS NIGH thee, EVEN IN THY MOUTH, AND IN THY HEART: THAT IS THE WORD OF FAITH, WHICH WE PREACH;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt BELIEVE IN THINE HEART that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the HEART MAN BELIEVETH UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, WHOSOEVER believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
*We must ask ourselves does our doctrine hold up to the light of these verses?*
*Does our doctrine truly teach the same thing Paul taught that man believes unto righteousness and not the other way around?*
*Calvinism cannot truly and in all godly sincerity preach what Paul preached in Romans 10:8 and so therefore must be rejected.*
*CALVINISM PREACHES ANOTHER GOSPEL*
************************************
... Again according to Romans 3:22 Paul preached that the righteousness of God is BY FAITH of Jesus is unto ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE:
ROMANS 3:22
22 Even the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD WHICH IS BY FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST UNTO ALL AND UPON ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE: FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE:
*We must ask ourselves does our doctrine hold up to the light of these verses?*
*Does our doctrine put a difference or is it really to ALL who believe?*
*Calvinism puts a difference in that salvation is only for those chosen for no apparent reason before the foundation of the world and so therefore it must be rejected.*
*CALVINISM PREACHES ANOTHER GOSPEL*
Wonderful testimony and great points about Scripture and Calvinism! Thank you. 👍🏻
This was fantastic. Amen it does lead to demonization and darkness. No one speaks up about it.
I’ve seen other videos of yours a while back, but not this one for some reason. @Alana L. recommendation brought me here!! Praise God!
What a wonderful testimony. I relate to it sooo much! Blessings my brother. Please keep doing what you’re doing! It matters! More than you know.
You are so right in all this man. I don’t know if you ever watch Ron Carpenter Jr… But he is the man… Very Biblical and Kingdom minded.
David, thank you so much for sharing your heart and God's word on this subject. Much appreciated. God bless.
Arminianism is not the opposite of. calvinism. Its actually just slightly watered down calvinism.
so true
Thank you David! You’re always sharing your heart
Well done
Great insight
Clear thinking
Must be of the Holy Spirit
What Love is this Video from Dave Hunt. He authored a Book of the Same Title, but it's deep and not a fast read.
Arminian vs Calvinism is a false dichotomy. Both are branches off the same tree and require regeneration prior to faith, and both are focussed on subsequent works; either to keep salvation or prove you had it.
May the love of the brethren continue. Keep preaching Christ and let God be God.
But eternal life is to know God...
I’m also very anti-Calvinist, but I love Paul washer’s messages on seeking God and prayer.
Praise God for your testimony brother!
Appreciate your balanced perspective! I was a member of a Reformed Baptist church for 4 years, but have since come out of Calvinism. Before and after that I was involved in the Vineyard Movement for awhile, which I still love. We are in a Charismatic church now that we really love. But I see some watering down of the Word, even denial of inerrancy in some cases, in the Charismatic movement. Appreciate your work!
Thank you!!
No, I’d say I definitely do not believe total depravity the way Calvinists do...they do not believe people have the capacity to respond to the good news of Jesus Christ that has the power to save everyone who believes.
I used to lean Calvinist, then for 20 years I was neutral on the subject, believing that both free will and predetermined election are both true. Then I considered that Faith is a gift given to all, but many don't use it.
Then looking at Romans 1, I questioned total depravity from birth. Because why would the be given over to a depraved mind, if they were already depraved?
The question of infant salvation is often discussed, but I am convinced that we don't inherit the guilt of Adam's sin, but our own sin. Infants haven't sinned yet because they don't know any better! It's sad that many Calvinist pastors teach infant damnatiion unless they are elect!
As for P, I do believe someone can lose their salvation, but not because of sin or lack of works, but when someone stops believing. 1 John tells us 'If we say we have no sin, we make Him a liar.' 'If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.' Our conscience will make us want to stop sinning, because we are a new creature. Paul said, 'It is no long I that fo it, but sin that dwells in me.' The whole spirit vs flesh routine. Our flesh will remain until we are resurrected with new bodies incorruptible! We are to die to the flesh, but those temptations will always be with us in this body!
I grew up in a charismatic church where my parents were ministers and you gave words to what I experienced there. About 2 years ago, Jesus saved me after a friend shared the Calvinist doctrine with me and I learned about total depravity for the first time (not everyone knows about that). I believe some points of Calvinism but struggle with others so you gave me a lot to contemplate in the scripture. Thank you for sharing this.
This is a good message. So grateful this man found his true freedom in Christ!
Psalm 51 doesn’t say we are born in sin… David, singing for mercy after the Bathsheba incident, is recounting that he was CONCEIVED in sin. This would have to do with his parents and the act that “brought him forth in iniquity” - perhaps drawing a parallel to what he did with Bathsheba.
There is an interesting thought here (not saying it is authoritative) that this perhaps is a contributing factor to why when Samuel came to call the son of Jesse to be king, David was left in the field; as Jesse didn’t even recognize him as one of his sons.
You true spiritual experiences came at your own couch during Bible study, amen!!! I have not praised or worshiped God more sweetly, nor with as much gratitude as I do after a private Bible study session. Nothing in this Christian experience is sweeter than hearing the words of our Lord, and having our eyes opened to the living waters hidden in the scriptures after digging and digging and digging in them.
That being said, I totally agree with you on the issues with the "U", "L", and "I" in TULIP. God having to unconditionally chose people to be recipients of irresistible grace and work in them the ability to hear and respond to the Gospel in order to be saved is 100% contrary to Romans 1:16. The Calvinist is essentially denying the saving power that God built into the Gospel. I'd argue that a doctrine that teaches that God has to enable us to believe the Gospel of Christ by any means other than the rest of the scriptures is bordering on heresy.
Romelans 5:18
So then through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to ALL MEN
I appreciate your statement saying you're anti Calvinist and yet love Calvinist people.
I disagree with you on certain matters yet I say to hate Calvinism, and love the Calvinist..
That's my motto.
Thanks for this video, my background is a little different, but I have come to similar conclusions as these over the years.
Loved your testimony! Excellent video!
I just recommended you to Shane Pruitt's followers on IG so hope some nice thoughtful conversations happen as a result. So glad yt put you in my recommended list a year or two ago. God has given me hope through you.
Me too, it's been an honor to be apart of the journey.
I rejoice with you on being freed from Reformed theology! I love my Calvinistic brothers and sisters, but am also anti-Calvinism. This false teaching does much damage to the body of Christ and gives unbelievers a wrong view of God. The Bible teaches He loves us all and provided for all to be saved from death, if we humble ourselves and repent. Praise Him!
I’m not Eastern Orthodox but their view on the sinfulness of humanity is called “ancestral sin” as opposed to total depravity.
yes - well said. Calvinism is definitely an equal and opposite over reaction to the Roman Catholic Church.
Well done. I was in the same sinking boat.
For me, total depravity unraveled the entire thing.
Yes!! Romans 5!!! You got it!!!
@@AlanaL3 Out of curiosity, what part of Romans 5 leads someone away from Total Depravity? Most would suggest that Romans 5 convinces them of Total Depravity. Some Calvinists use several verses in that chapter as proof texts. Not arguing, just curious.
@@toddstevens9667 sure:) the order in which it lays out what happened. Sin entered the world through adam, death entered through sin and spread to all man BECAUSE all man sinned. Total depravity teaches you are born guilty and already dead in your sin unable to respond positively even to the gospel of Jesus Christ. It teaches we sin because we are born dead. Romans 5 teaches death spread to us after we sin, we all do/will sin…it makes total sense now in Hebrews 2 where it says Jesus was made like us in every way. Death never spread to him because he never sinned. Death spread to us because we did. He came to save us from death. I hope that helps you understand what I see.
@@AlanaL3 But the passage goes on in Romans 5 to say that through the offense of one (Adam) we all be dead. And that through his disobedience we all fall under condemnation. It’s not that I disagree about Total Depravity. I’m not sure the Bible teaches what Calvinists mean by that. But Romans 5 is really about corporate headship. If you’re in Adam, you inherit death and condemnation. If you’re in Christ, you inherit life and righteousness. I don’t think it really is a proof text against Total Depravity. But if it works for you, that’s great. Thanks for your kind reply. And I’ll spend more time in the chapter, who knows, I might change my mind.
@@AlanaL3 Oh yeah, I forgot about your comment about Jesus in Hebrews 2. It’s absolutely right, but looking at it from a Romans 5 perspective, Jesus, being born of a virgin, was not born into Adam like you and I are. He never inherited death or sin from Adam. He was born of the Holy Spirit, not of the seed of Adam. Or at least that’s how the doctrine goes. Not sure I could prove from the Bible that death is inherited from the male seed, though 🤪
Hebrews 10 - if we go on sinning willfully - we are then lost.
How much sinning? will I know if I have crossed that line? is it possible to even know where I stand? In the past 40 years I have had very much pride, envy, sometimes hatred.... other wilful sins. Can I ever know where I stand?
Yes you can. See why here: ruclips.net/video/fiNc7hCvslQ/видео.html
We all sin willfully. But through God's word we have the understanding of what is right and wrong in God's eyes. We should constantly and consistently seek Christ to advance our spiritual growth. Gradually the more time you spend with him the less you will sin. You don't ever become sinless. The Bible says that anyone who says that they have no sin is a liar. The Bible also says we have a mediator to the Father which is our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. We will only become sinless when Christ returns. No need to watch another video to know where you stand. You have the BEST checklist to tell you exactly where you stand and that is the Word of God. Do you have the fruits of the spirit? Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control? If not, ask God to help you to have these things. Remember he is the potter and we are the clay(Isaiah 64:8). Ask him to Mold you into what he desires for you. Because as our Father he only desires the best for us.
That’s not actually what Hebrews 10 says. It does not say “if we go on sinning willfully - we are then lost.” You might want to re-read 10:26-29. I think it’s referring to the specific sin of rejecting Jesus as the sacrifice for your sin. You see this specifically in 26 and 29. As long as you continue trusting Jesus as the propitiation for your sin and continue in faith, then you are saved. To understand the argument in both chapter 6 and 10, you have to understand that the author is trying to convince Hebrew Christians not to abandon their faith in Jesus. We need to remember the same thing: don’t abandon your faith in Jesus or his sacrifice for our sin.
I just visited a new church down the road. I sent an email with questions about their beliefs. Very good sermon, they seem sincere and serious about God and His Word. I feel like I would fit in with this group even though I'm older. But.... they're Calvinist. So I'm in
the same situation you were in at first. One visit is not enough to know if this is where God wants me. But I want to keep the dialogue open and be kind.
Calvinest, but not cessationist. I have not personally seen the abuses you mentioned. I do appreciate you testing everything against scripture. I need to consider Romans 5:12 more. Ironically, it was a Tozer youtube video (audio only) that most convinced me of the meaning of Hebrews 10, drawing the conclusion that it is not speaking of losing ones salvation. But, at the end of the day, I consider you to be a brother in Christ, believing the matters of first importance (1 Corinthians 15:3-5), and would be honored to fellowship/worship with you.
Forgive, if it's been said already. Leighton Flowers is a great stop for consideration and resources, I'm fond of him - as an A/G pastor.
I agree. Love that guy and have had the privilege to speak with him a bit. My hopes is that this video would funnel people to him through the algorithms.
@@davidleebrown3956 actually Leighton's videos led me to you and I hope others do too!
I’m not Calvinist, but Leighton Flowers strikes me as extremely shallow in his critiques of Calvinist doctrine. But, by all means, watch some of his videos.
9:30 It's so sad that you, like most non-Calvinists Christians had never heard the sermon "what's wrong with Calvinism" They do NOT have really good arguments to support Calvinism.
This is how most non-Calvinists become Calvinist.... they are unprepared for the carefully honed arguments of the Calvinist proof texts(all taken out of context).
Most non-Calvinists who have become Calvinists were 'convinced' Calvinism is true by someone more clever at using their 'proof texts' than the non-Calvinist was at disputing them. Few Christians have ever heard the sermon on "what's wrong with Calvinism". This is usually because their preacher didn't know how to explain it, was afraid of touching a 'third rail', or didn't think it was even necessary.... (BIG MISTAKE).
Consequently, most non-Calvinist Christians are vulnerable and woefully unprepared to articulately provide any defense to the accusation against God that he does NOT love all his creation and/or that he has NOT "Graciously" made provision for ALL of mankind to be reconciled to himself by faith in Christ. Instead, they are easily out-argued by a Calvinist who can argue their 'plucked-proof-texts' by virtue of having already been convinced by some other Calvinist that God has actually created and condemned the vast majority of mankind, (made in his own image), to burn in Hell for doing precisely what he has decreed they would do, while he withholds the ability to do otherwise... for his own glory.
Calvinists have been defending the indefensible for hundreds of years. They have it down to a 'cha-cha dance'. They all seem to learn it the same way .... rinse & repeat.
Most of their arguments employ misdirection, redefined words, and terms and the invention of dual, non-falsifiable meanings.
Honest question; is it more correct to say that egg yolks "ARE" white, Or is it Better to say egg yolks "IS" white? ?
Calvinist arguments can go something like this, it's sort of like a fighter setting up a right hook with a left jab and a head fake.
Example;
Calvinist: "You believe God is sovereign, right?"(their definition of sovereignty excluded)...
Victim: "Right!"
Calvinist: "You believe man is totally depraved, right?"(their definition of depravity excluded)...
Victim: Right!
Calvinist: "You know man can't save himself, right?"(begging the question of how salvation occurs)...
Victim: Right!
Calvinist: "Why did you get saved and your friend didn't?"...
Victim: "I believed the Gospel and accepted the gift of salvation, and he didn't."
Calvinist: "Oh, so you saved yourself, aren't you special. So, you must think you're better than him. ....I thought we already covered that".. etc. etc.
This goes on ad nauseam, and the unsuspecting, unprepared, victim really has no chance.
And the next thing you know John "Bob" Calvin's your uncle.......
But yokes are still yellow, not white.😊
Love your videos. Thank you for your content. I have had similar struggles as yours with various doctrines. My own journey has taken me into Catholicism. So many Protestants seem to get lost in the sea of differing doctrines and the search for authority. I would be very interested in a video addressing how so many people attend church (any denomination) and never question the doctrines of their church; never ask the tough questions. And, by the way, I completely agree with your take on Calvinism. Thanks for your excellent content.
Great video. I’m in a solid scriptural church now goes really deep into the word and I love it, but there are a lot of Calvinists there, and I think all 3 elders are Calvinists. I can’t exactly articulate my issues with any of the 5 points, but something about that systematic theology just gives me pause. Nonetheless, they’re a great group and I feel like I was led there for a reason. Hope you’re doing well, brother.
Watch Soteriology 101 - it’s so excellent - I was in a similar church and if you don’t know clearly what they teach, it seeps into the truth and taints it. You may be able to weed through it, but it can damage your kiddos over time❤️❤️
@@melissaschubert1653 agreed! A little leaven leavens the whole lump.
Interesting that Perseverance of the Saints was the tipping point for you; it’s normally the one both Calvinists and Armenians can agree on. I find that most people trip up on Limited Atonement and can only be a 4-Point Calvinist. I had the reverse story if yours, actually.
Armenians believe you can fall away as the Bible clearly teaches.
@@bobbyadkins6983 🧐😳🙄
@@bobbyadkins6983 Fall away from what though? 1. Relationship with God , 2. Belief in God, 3. Church and committed discipleship to serve others and witness? Or all three?
David you are so genuine and sincere in your search for truth. I’ve been leaning more and more Calvinistic over the past 10 years but I do have my waves of doubt, especially after watching this. Who can you recommend as powerful and accessible preachers of the Word?
May I suggest a few preachers of the word that have helped me after leaving a cult that embraced a lot of calvinisms theology. Ralph Yankee Arnold preaches on the new Christians level. Gregg Jackson does 20 minute, to the point messages as he walks his dog everyday. Then I've learned so much from Robert Breaker's white board lessons. Renee Roland, Chuck Missler are also very wonderful teachers of the word. They all love the Lord and His word. Best to you as you seek the Lord. God Bless 🙂☝✝️
David, Hebrews 10 is talking to people who have rejected the Gospel of Jesus Christ as a whole. The writer mentions right after that warning "Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses" The writer goes on to say how much more sever of punishment will those endure who have done the same to the Son of God, meaning people who set him aside and did not believe the Gospel. Think about it, the writer quotes the promise in Jerimiah saying "And their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more"
How can one go on sinning if our sins and lawless deeds are not remembered anymore? Its by rejecting the payment for them that is Jesus Christ, setting it aside as nothing. Look, I went through the same things, being led down the same road by the same people, the Gospel of Grace movement was the only group that made a lick of sense, that helped clear up the confusion of the "intellectuals." Why not try listening to preachers like Joseph Prince and like a good Berean see for yourself, what do you have to lose?
Love your honesty brother and can relate in many ways!
Though I lean on Calvinism, I enjoy your videos and love you regardless!!!
Lean on Christ not Calvin.
Yes - Calvinism is very wrong
Hi David, in case Patreon doesn't notify you, I posted again just now. It's about Hearing Love. I started reading the appendix about how to hear the voice of the Lord and stopped because of your warning! This thing that you warned about happened to me way back in those first few years after being born again. I really didn't have a question just a request for specific prayer. Thank you!
Great video David! I myself lean Calvinist in the sense that I don’t believe you can lose your salvation if you truly repent and follow Christ. Many say I am in a gray area and call me a Reformed Pentecostal, lol. I too have the same questions as you have had, and I appreciate your presentation in this video. God bless you and brother.
You are right. God sees the hearts of individuals. If you are genuine there is no reason why you would lose your salvation.
Soteriology 101 will help immensely! It’s on You tube and is excellent!!
@@melissaschubert1653 thank you!
I needed to hear this today 🙏🏼
Your experience is so so similar to mine
Psalm 51 I was CONCEIVED in sin, NOT “born “ in sin. Referring to David’s MOTHER!!!
I lean Calvinism. But what the scriptural basis outside of experiences for your current position. Thanks
Thank you for sharing this brother Dave. As someone who’s been Reformed for almost a decade now, I can appreciate your honest journey in all of this. Of course I find a lot of fault in your argumentation here (even some misrepresentation), though I realize that this video isn’t about laying out completed cohesive arguments for your position, so I won’t treat it as such. Along with that, I remember making many of the same arguments when I was an extreme anti-calvinist back in the day and can sympathize with the rational behind them. I also grew up in the charismatic wing of Christendom so I relate to your story quite a bit. Love ya brother. Grace and peace to you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
I always wondered what made people fall for Calvinism. Maybe it is like you said. You never even thought to question it. You were bewitched! (In a trance.)
Every ism would fall apart if all Christians would simply read God's Word for themselves. You would fall in love with your Heavenly Creator, Jesus Christ, and desire to do all that would please Him because of His deep love for you and all that would desire Him
So, concerning teachers, do you feel like Wesley, Finney, and Ravenhill are solid sources? How about Andrew Murray? I don’t remember him coming across as a Calvinist, and he seemed to believe holiness was an attainable goal. Course, there’s that David Lee Brown guy. Still working on his book when I can find time between school work.
Re Hebrews 10: I will admit “Calvinism” without a true Reformed systematic including proper covenant theology will not be able to answer your objection to the perseverance of the saints. Paul Washer and John MacArthur and similar other ‘Calvinistic’ baptists do not have a good answer to why people fall out of the new covenant. But I assure you that the actual historic Reformed position does so easily. Calvinism is not just a name for TULIP, it’s actually a misnomer for the entire Reformed tradition that includes a multitude of other doctrines includes sacramentology and covenant theology. What is understood is the following: all those who enter the new covenant community, whether are proselytes or by birth, are sanctified by the blood of Christ in the real sense that they are set apart from the rest of the world. The Reformed systematic recognizes that the new covenant community includes the elect as well as the non-elect. Both of those individuals have faith, but only elect regenerate believers will be given perseverance such that their lasting faith is revealed to be a saving faith gifted by God, so that those who fall away are revealed to have had an evanescence (temporary) faith permitted by God that ultimately faded away. How severe of a punishment is it to have been part of the covenant community, partaken of the benefits of the Holy Spirit, to then go forth and willfully sin and disgrace the blood of the covenant that set you apart? See how that makes sense now: there are people in the covenant community that leave who are bringing on themselves such a greater judgement, because their faith did not persevere and their status as not being among the elect was manifested to everyone else. They left us because they were never of us. But these are not the saints who persevere, and thus the doctrine of perseverance of the saints maintains its validity. I see that you’ve then unravelled the rest of the Reformed doctrines of grace, and it saddens me, but hopefully my comment inspires to read Reformed literature that is not written by ‘Reformed’ baptists, but from those saints of the past tied to the reformation (Presbyterians, Dutch reformed, etc) who can succinctly tie all of the scriptures with the Reformed systematic, in my humble opinion the most beautiful and faithful interpretation of the whole of scripture. God bless you brother
I am currently on this journey and every time I hear Calvinism being spoken or signs and wonders finished the apostles. It grieves my spirit greatly . I feel God is telling me to leave … I feel tormented. The church is great but Its crippling the Holy Spirit
Sister...I’m with you..it’s been 2 years now that I left Calvinism but I cannot bring myself to leaving my Calvinist church of 17 years...so lost:(
Good for you we should always look for truth. Our God and savior is truth. One step towards truth is another step to God.
If perseverance of the saints where “true”.... then our eternal security is based on our own works!
Do you mean “not true?”
Sorry maybe “where true” better present my point. I disagree with every aspect of TULIP. But the last point to me concludes that ones salvation is contingent upon them persevering, making salvation dependent upon us, making it a form of works salvation. Making it just as heretical as the Catholic Church. I hope I make sense hahah.
@@jdawg252 -gotcha. I'd still challenge that. Marriage takes two. This video may clarify more where I'm coming from: ruclips.net/video/fiNc7hCvslQ/видео.html
It is true, Jesus said that he will lose none, if the preservation of the saints is not true the your eternal security is based on your works because you did something to lose it.
Jesus Delgado no that’s not what it means. We make it to the end because we trust that God is powerful to save us and keep us to the end. Because Jesus is the good shepherd, if he would lose one of his sheep then he wouldn’t be a good shepherd.
David, how do you explain Romans 7,8,9 and Ephesians 1? This is not a "challenge " im genuinely curious. The more i study Grace and God's Sovereignty and His timeline the more reformed theology makes sense. Do you have another video?
lookup living christian video or The Flower falls by Patti.
The issue is that Calvinistic narrative pushed by calvinistic people has made total depravity seem to a monopoly that Calvinism owns..
The Arminian view of total depravity is a more reasonable option as it eliminates total inability as synonymous with total depravity as Calvinists teach go together part and parcel..
Not a rebuttal but Calvinists and Arminians both have examples of being set free from sin while both have examples of those who also struggle. There are good and bad forms of each that are unbiblical. It's about being transformed by the renewing of your mind to Scripture, not "leaving Calvinism" that will set you free. You aren't born again, "innocent as a child again", by being sanctified...you are born again and justified by faith, and given a new heart of flesh immediately. Sanctification is after and happens at different paces and ways. Pretty messy and inconsistent if you're trying to reach Calvinists is all. It's good to have these conversations, but it won't be resolved on this side of eternity bc we don't know. Many, many, much smarter people than us have debated it for 2000 yrs, we aren't going to have the end all say all. Great to think about and study though!
18:56 Granted, pulling the 'string' on perseverance of the saints, as Calvinists define it, can unravel it because all TULIP is interconnected, and stands or falls together... BUT the system is laid on the foundational sinking sand of Augustine's definition of Total Depravity=Total Inability...from birth.
Which no scripture in proper context ever establishes.... it is Calvinism's "Missing Link".
Without the "T", there is no need for "ULIP".
Awesome video!!!
Yes we can be set free … it may be hard but we can be we are promised a new heart
If you could lose your salvation…you would daily.
You are a son of God.
Hi. We all have our own walk and opionion. You have shown us yours.
yes reading and study the bible so that it comforts and convicts
I am firmly in the middle of the two. I don’t think that we can truly know for sure how it all works. I can see both sides. I think it causes strife for anyone to argue that either side is completely correct. I think that there are Christian’s in both, and it’s kind of silly for people to fight over it. I grew up Armenian and now love reading Puritan writings. I think it’s ok to not be so one sided
The following are statements of faith of 3 top Calvinists! Surely they couldn't be wrong? Isn't this the god of the Bible?
Paul Washer, James White, Steve Lawson, John MacArthur and Spurgeon all preach and agree with them, therefore who are we to question these great men of their god!
John Calvin "God arranges all things by his sovereign counsel, in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death and are to glorify him by their destruction.( John Calvin Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6)
John Piper states it plainly: Quote from John Piper:
"God . . . brings about all things in accordance with his will. In other words, it isn’t just that God manages to turn the evil aspects of our world to good for those who love him; it is rather that he himself brings about these evil aspects for his glory (see Ex. 9:13-16; John 9:3) and his people’s good (see Heb. 12:3-11; James 1:2-4). This includes-as incredible and as unacceptable as it may currently seem-God’s having even brought about the Nazis’ brutality at Birkenau and Auschwitz as well as the terrible killings of Dennis Rader and even the sexual abuse of a young child . . .
Martin Luther “Man is like a horse. Does God leap into the saddle? The horse is obedient and accommodates itself to every movement of the rider and goes whither he wills it. Does God throw down the reins? Then Satan leaps upon the back of the animal, which bends, goes and submits to the spurs and caprices of its new rider… Therefore, necessity, not free will, is the controlling principle of our conduct. God is the author of what is evil as well as of what is good, and, as He bestows happiness on those who merit it not, so also does He damn others who deserve not their fate.”
(‘De Servo Arbitrio’, 7, 113 seq., quoted by O’Hare, in ‘The Facts About Luther, TAN Books, 1987, pp. 266-267.)
Thanks. They all use a lot of God talk or they would be ignored. Face it, there is big money in it for them. MacArthur is estimated to be worth over 424 million. These false teachers probably started out as Christians but slowly their fame has let them slipping into the Heresy they both teach. Having wilfully given themselves over to the the devil's slanderous lie. They ignore the holy spirits leading and perhaps they have been given over to it, by God. So they feel no shame when they slander the love of God for humanity. They feel no shame when they withhold the power of the cross too save. BUT!!! in their puffed up ego they assume THEY! are selected for Heaven.
They make me sick!
Truth in love
Calvinism or rather man's freewill/God's predeterminism I regard as one of those secondary doctrinal areas that shouldn't be defining or dividing God's people and there should be gracious agreement to disagree. I am not Reformed in my theological moorings but rather non-denominational, dispensational Free Grace and cautiously continuationist concerning the sign gifts (completely separate issue).
On the Calvinist issue summed up in the TULIP acrostic, I would fall in as a moderate Calvinist. Fallen humanity left to themselves would never believe the Gospel and take the free gift of eternal life offered to all everywhere. The Holy Spirit has to draw them and in God's secret counsels which is not our business to intrude into, He had by His foreknowledge to step in and make the choice. All of this does not line up with TULIP teaching but it is what I have come to understand from Scripture. We are to be governed by what the Scriptures say and not by what John Calvin or Jacob Arminius said.
I certainly do not hold to reprobation as a decree but a point can be reached where some reprobate themselves through opposition to God and He gives up to the hardness of their own hearts. Again, this is known only to God.
I do not accept the L in limited atonement and a free offer of the Gospel in the evangelistic commission cannot be severed from a universal atonement although it is limited in it's effect to those of an age of responsibility who have received Christ by faith alone. Children which would at least cover all pre-adolescents and learning disabled adults who are taken from us without having reached that age of responsibilty are covered by the atonement and go to be with the Lord.
If the P in TULIP is taken to mean preservation of the saints, that is perfectly fine as God keeps whom He saves and they are secure in Christ. Perseverance is something completely different and switches the ground of assurance from Christ's Finished Work to subjective evaluations of performance. No wonder many Calvinists are so introspective and struggle with assurance as much as Arminian Christians. Our flesh will always fail and the Enemy of our souls will home in on those failings to spiritually paralyze us and render us ineffective in service and no threat to him and his schemes. If we don't know with certainty that we are saved by taking God at His Word and believing His sure promise, we will be constantly sinning and in unbelief as whatever is not of faith is sin. Saints do not always persevere and they may backslide and do so to the extent that they become castaways who are unfit for any kind of Christian service and may even resist the promptings of the Holy Spirit and Godly chastisement to the point that they are taken out of the way and sleep the sleep unto death. That is not persevering but they are still saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit as God's possession.
Full regeneration does not precede faith. Yes, the Holy Spirit draws the sinner to Christ and is 'with' them but the Holy Spirit does not take up residence and is 'in' them until Christ is received as Saviour. Many Calvinists have a tendency to look for subjective signs of conversion and usually if they are feeling uncomfortable (convicted) and showing some interest in getting right with God or rather not wanting to go to Hell and have cleaned up at least some areas of their life or are seeking to. It is folly to pronounce someone as elect on this basis. The only indicator we have of who is elect is what they are pinning their hope of Heaven on- Christ or themselves.
This is my take on the matter for what it's worth but I just want to point out that there are variations of what can be considered Calvinist or Arminian takes on soteriology. A lot of Christians do not fall neatly into either systems, some being CALminian which could be applied to myself very easily and others being calMINIAN.
Much blessing.
I think once people get rid of religion and just follow Christ,things will be much better.Thats what i do.I dont believe in any organized religion.
Do you observe the Biblical sabbath (Saturday)? It's what Christ and every writer of the NT did!
8:00 Total Depravity does not equal Total Inability. No scripture in proper context establishes any man is "born unable" to respond positively to the call of God, or being confronted with the Gospel.
hallelujah ! hallelujah!!!
Thank you for sharing. The first thing that impress me because I'm learning new things. Is the word corporate. In America we've accepted the corporate model of life and we move it away from the family model. When you say you saw a a church and it was a corporate model of Prayer. It's an oxymoron. Really what you saw was a family model of Prayer. The body of Christ as a family we are not a corporation. Words matter as you well know. In my opinion. For I got so much more to say I will share it with you if you like. I love you
I'm both part of SFC and PPFI which are Charismatic Catholic Communities here in the Philippines promulgated by the CBCP according to Vatican II.
Do you have any pastors that follow a Theology similar to yours? As what you explained aligns almost exactly either my own beliefs
Thanks
I know MLJ was a Calvinist, but he seemed to have been on the healthier end of the spectrum. Have you seen his interview with Joan Bakewell? What you said about rebellion really echoed an important point he made there. Or, as C.S. Lewis stated it, we are rebels who must lay down our arms. So, when I sin willfully, it’s like I’ve surrendered and am walking toward the enemy lines...then I decide to pick up my rifle and start firing at them again. Not the best way to conduct one’s self in a war... I only hope I can presume on God’s grace to again leave my weapon behind and continue toward Him.
After 40 years not knowing or understanding Calvanism my eyes were opened a year ago. It has been a huge blessing on my life and my relationship with God. I’m completely at a loss at the strange understandings of it. I’m in agreement with Charles Spurgeon. He was a devout Calvanist and a devout evangelical. He said the doctrines men call Calvanism is written in the scriptures as with an iron pen. He said that we don’t know where the parallel lines of God’s sovereign election and man’s free will meet but it is a fact that somewhere in eternity they do meet. Learning these God made and given truths have taught me true humbleness and submission. Paul clearly taught us about God’s sovereign election in Romans Chapter 9. He said it had been true since the beginning of God’s plan in the OT. So why should we attempt to reject it? The good news is that not understanding the doctrines of Calvanism will not keep you from salvation by itself. The bad news is that not understanding these sovereign doctrines will hurt your relationship with God..Of course, Calvanism has to be part of evangelism. Calvanism without strong evangelism could be as bad as any other heretical theology. Read Charles Spurgeon..He was a true Calvanist evangelist. God Bless you all!
Calvinism and eternal security are not synonymous. Do you believe Jesus's words in John 3.16? When he says we will have eternal life if we believe then if we can lose eternal life then by nature we did not have it in the first place.
Once in i stayed in
All other ground sinking sand!
I sometimes wonder if God uses different theologies to place true Christians. I don't think all real Christians are Arminian and all fake ones Calvinist etc. I think every church building, no matter what theology they hold to, contains a smattering of the sheep that will hear God's real voice. After all if we lean to heavily on any man made theology as being totally true and correct, we lean on man.
That is precisely what God warns us against.
There are certain characteristics I look for in a true Christian and they will be the same whichever Church the go to. Some are them are...
1. A heart for God
2. A passion for truth
3. A selfless nature, with a strong moral centre to do good to all those they come across
4. A forgiving heart for those that hurt them
5. A centred person who accepts people for what they are, who they are but doesn't necessarily hold to their lifestyle or beliefs.
6. Someone who won't pridefully cling onto a theological position as a limpet does to a rock, never letting it go even when the flaws are blatently obvious.
7. A prayerful person
8. Someone who isn't arrogant, aggrandizing, covetous for material wealth, elitist or superior in their attitude.
9. Someone who is generous with their time and whatever wealth they have - seeing it as a God given blessing to benefit others as well as themselves.
Basically all of the attributes Jesus has, and as set out in the Bible. Many Christians are either devoid of these attributes entirely or in part or they put on a front of false piety that is more to do with looking and acting the part in front of the right people but has a hidden agenda that is selfish, narcissistic even or personally aggrandizing. You can normally see that in a professed believer, after a while.
Whatever you think about Paul Washer, he was the first person I was heavily drawn to when I left my Word of Faith / NAR sympathising charismatic church, and believe he is the real deal or else he is the biggest liar and best actor on the planet. I somehow doubt that. His Reformed theological platform is problematic though. I pray for him.
Here is another one that just came to my mind. When Adam and Eve left the garden it says " least they eat from the Tree of Life" so they will be removed from the garden least they eat from the Tree of Life. I would I think it's two separate events Adam and Eve sinning is one event separate from them not having eternal life. They no longer have access to eternal life because they no longer had access to the Tree of Life. I think those are two separate issues. Sin and eternal life are two separate issues in the garden.
Enjoyed this. Thank you.
This is but a generalization of a person leaving one for another . No Scriptures available . The points made here are common among many believers. Maybe he gets some satisfaction of some kind . Personally my time can be spent spending time with the Lord in His Word . A calvinist I ain't BUT a child of God I am .
David! This is exactly what I thought! That Calvin and Luther were over correcting and trying hard to be anti Catholic - and in so doing they got into the ditch in the opposite side of the road with Calvinism. I knew a coworker who sadly demonstrated how dangerous it is to over correct. She ran off the road temporarily and over corrected steering back onto the road. She hit another car head on and died.
I'm sorry about your coworker.
my study of the word led me away from Calvinism
Same
I think it's a bit too soon for you to go out of calvinism before reading calvinism systematic theology book to see how the entire calvinist theology holds together. Would recommend you to read Wayne Grudem's systematic theology book.
Even if you are not keen on reading any more Calvinist works, I would still highly recommend you to read non-calvinist systematic theology which I think it's a very important framework to make sure our theology are coherent and consistent and how they correlate with all doctrines.
I think knowing systematic theology is essential for all bible teachers.
Thanks for the suggestion, I've actually read that already, and the large majority of my library is all Calvanist resources. I've also read more from Calvin's Institutes of Religion than Wesley or Finney combined. the Bible remains my primary resource and the reason why I still reject it even though I read more Reformed books than anything else.