Can Man Seek God?: Total Depravity Reconsidered
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- Today I examine Romans 3:11 in its full context. A favorite Calvinist proof-text for Total Depravity. I review in light of other scriptures to determine if unbelieving man can seek for God in any capacity. Does Paul mean this as an absolute statement? Calvinists claim he cannot. What does Scripture say?
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Jeremiah 29:13
[13]And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
"He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us." Acts 17
Our logic is human logic and subject to "the space-time" continuum. God's determinism comes from eternity and it can only be apprehended by the "gift of His grace by faith in the Righteousness of Christ alone."
only after the holy spirit regenerates them because he gives life and a hunger for god and his word. its just like telling a person to be holy as god is holy, thats impossible unless your in christ jesus who is our holiness.
My atheist coworker never swore even once. Extremely polite and respectful young guy.
In Romans, Paul is quoting from Ps.14 and speaking to an audience who is very familiar with the passage by heart. It is not about the entirety of mankind from birth. It is about “the fool who hath said in his heart, There is no God.”, who doesn’t seek God and does evil continually. Intuitively, the Psalmist follows this with Ps.15 which says; “Lord, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?2 He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.3 He that backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbor."Etc. etc.
There is no Bible verse or passage in proper context which clearly states that “All men are BORN unable
to respond positively to God or the Gospel”. It doesn’t exist.
The calvinist says that man is so depraved that he is unable to seek God and then their doctrine blames God for causing sin...
John Calvin does....
“thieves and murderers, and other evildoers, are instruments of divine providence, being employed by the Lord himself to execute judgments which he has resolved to inflict.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 5)
“The devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how muchsoever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay unless in so far as he commands, that they are not only bound by his fetters but are even forced to do him service” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 11)
John Piper does.....
"God . . . brings about all things in accordance with his will. In other words, it isn’t just that God manages to turn the evil aspects of our world to good for those who love him; it is rather that he himself brings about these evil aspects for his glory (see Ex. 9:13-16; John 9:3) and his people’s good (see Heb. 12:3-11; James 1:2-4). This includes-as incredible and as unacceptable as it may currently seem-God’s having even brought about the Nazis’ brutality at Birkenau and Auschwitz as well as the terrible killings of Dennis Rader and even the sexual abuse of a young child . . .
EVERY CALVINIST I HAVE TALKED TO DOES......
Jews thought salvation was only for them as the elect nation of God and could be achieved through works of the law. Calvinists think salvation is only for them as the Augustinian-elect of God. Ironically they both have the same elitist objections and can’t stand the fact that salvation is freely and genuinely offered to all through faith. Calvinists can even see the similarity between themselves and the Jews who boasted of their election. The irony is literally staggering. Calvinists are the 21st century Pharisees. Calvinism: Satan's way of unloading his responsibility for what he has done in this world and placing it on God.."God predetermined everything and caused everything including evil" If God predetermined everything..that means everything!! And so Calvinism places the blame of anything evil on God.. That is blasphemy..They follow a false god that is responsible for evil. I mean really?!? God gets glory by purposefully creating creatures that are intended to burn and suffer in unfathomably painstaking eternal torment as a way for Him to have glory?
IAm sought by them that asked Not for Me;
I Am found of them that Sought me Not:l said Behold me, behold me, unto a Nation that was Not Called by My Name. Isaiah65:1. *The Lord Seeks Us* *that know the Truth* *in Christ Jesus* *1John**4:19** We Love* *Him Because He* *First Loved Us*
@@geraldjohnson8871 Many Calvinists like to say , " I love God because He first loved me".... but that can not be true according to their doctrine. There can be only 'one' reason 'if' they love God and that is only because God 'effectually' caused them to love Him by His eternal decree according Calvinism. They humbly revel in taking no 'credit' for any part of the salvation process and they must noT be allowed to take any 'credit' for their love of God either. The worst part is they have no basis to have confidence in their own salvation. The scriptural verses are there in abundance but a plain reading of them is in direct conflict with Calvinist doctrine. And whenever scripture and Calvinism collide, it is scripture which must yield. When analyzed, a Calvinists hope is not actually in Christ, but rather in whether or not they really are 'elected to salvation, for they claim their salvation/regeneration occurs prior to believing anything. Ironically, their evidence of salvation is the sliding scale of their good works, and it can not be determined this side of Jordan if their works were 'enough'.
@@geraldjohnson8871 Gerald please give me your testimony I would like to hear it in your own words.
I try in vain on many Calvinist sites to get an answer but they WILL NOT ANSWER for some reason.
My text question reads.
So from what you have been saying I sounds like you are sure you are one of the Elected for Heaven.
How do you know you are one of the Elect?
What did your life look like before you were regenerated and had no faith?
What did your life look like after you were regenerated and had faith?
At what age in your life did your regeneration take place?
How does it feel to know you are chosen and the majority of the human race is not?
TRUTH IN LOVE
@@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT
R.L.K. l Would love to tell you my exceptional experience with God i.e. Jesus But l can see what you do with your beliefs as you do to A Calvin that l know nothing about. But being Ordained to life is a very personal experience and mine has been a long One and as long as l live it is an ongoing experience. Many people are called and few are chosen.Jud1:4 Acts13:48 Heb5:1
Acts17:31 ROM13:1
1Cor9:14 1Cor2:7
Heb9:6 Eph2:10
Acts1:22 Rom7:10
Even Judas was Ordained Acts1:18
i.e. Appointed for the things he had done.
And as for me being one out of a world that will either be Saved or Condemned Only The Lord knows Who and How many that will be l pray that all will see the light of God i.e. Jesus before it is their time to Die.2Cor11:13,14,15,
It is Not Relevant to me what a Calvinist Believes that is in Gods Hands Not mine or Yours.
1 Corinthians 2:14,16 NASB
But a natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
God seeks man: "For God so loved the world that He gave His Son ..."
Man seeks God (inquires--He's not hiding) in response to His gift (influenced by the Spirit). "And the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely" (Revelation 22:17).
Amen brother!
@@simplebibleman5792 Someone once told me that Christ is a Good Shepherd seeking His lost sheep even though we have not sought Him. A misunderstanding of God's character causes us to think He is trying to hide from us. There is no parable of a lost sheep that must seek and find it's Shepherd. "The Lord draws us, but does not employ force. He calls but does not drive. ...
The love of God embraces the whole word, but it also singles out each individual. Christ is the light of the world, the Sun of Righteousness. But light is not divided among a crowd of people. If a room full of people be brilliantly lighted, each individual gets the benefit of all the light, just as much as though he/she were alone in the room. Praise God in Christ Jesus.
This disagrees with the original post, correct? If it's in response to the giving of his holy spirit then regeneration is proceeding faith??
That which is not of faith is sin.
John 6:44 and John 6:65
You can not come to the Father unless God first permits/chooses first.
Your Lord and Savior said you can not.
Please accept His word over your own.
Amen. Dead people can't do anything. They must first be regenerated then they can receive Christ.
Well done, brother. 👊🏼 That’s putting it on the bottom shelf 📖
Of course! Man can seek God and, likewise, God can seek man. Read John 3:17 and 1 Timothy 2:4 and you’ll see God has given all of us the opportunity for salvation. He created us and does not want us to be separate from Him.
"All teenagers will try cigarettes"
I Chron 16:10 ...rejoice that seek the Lord.
Jer 29:13 And ye shall seek me and find me.
Psalm 69:6 let not those that seek me...
Psalm 105:3 ...rejoice that seek the Lord.
Prov 8:17 ...those that seek me early...
Ezra 8:22 God is upon all them for good that seek him.
Lam 3:25 ...to the soul that seeketh him...
Zech 8:21 ...to seek the Lord of hosts...
Amen, Amen!
You must be born again.. YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN to even see the kingdom of God let alone seek God... mankind is spiritually dead in his trespasses and sins. What can a dead man do?
The disciples couldn’t see the kingdom until Pentecost.....
Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
They were still looking for a kingdom that came with observation that was of this world. Jesus wasn’t even seated as king until His resurrection.....
Acts 2:29 ¶ Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 ¶ For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 ¶ Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
That’s when they could see the kingdom. They didn’t understand it until then.
Dead men can’t get out of bed either, so you can’t take it as literally dead. We have to let the bible dictate to what extent a man can do anything while in such a state and not just assume that because a certain word is used it means totally incapable.
Paul wasn’t born spiritually dead....
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
It would seem there are a lot of misconceptions about spiritual deadness.
God bless.
@@evanu6579 How can a one make himself become born again? Impossible.. Our lord gave the simplest illustration "You must be born again" Just like you couldn't make yourself to be naturally born into this world, the same goes for your spiritual birth.
When the Bible talks about death, it is always separation. When we physically die, we don't go out of existence or sleep, it is separation. Our body will remain here and the spirit goes back to the God that gave it. We are born separated from God. We are born spiritually dead (separated). Read Ephesians 2. "And you who were dead in your trespasses and sins" We are born children or wrath..
@@yonas3838
I didn’t say we can make ourselves born again. Of course only God can do that. But He only does that to those who believe....
John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
You believe to have life. God gives us life.
I gave scripture that states we aren’t born spiritually dead. You only gave your opinion. I’ll believe scripture......
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
James agrees with Paul. We aren’t born that way. We become that way.
1Pe 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
We go astray and then return. Peter agrees as well. You have to start out not separated in order for you to go astray and then to return.
Follow scripture friend.
@@evanu6579 I see what you are saying... You are saying faith precedes regeneration. I disagree 100%. Regeneration precedes faith.. Again we are born dead. Ephesians 2 "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
@@yonas3838 Ephesians 1:13 “AFTER ye believed, ye were SEALED with the Holy Spirit of Promise.”
This verse alone debunks regeneration preceding faith. You don’t like it, then you have a problem with Scripture.
The scriptures that you talk about from Romans 3 shows a progression of sin. The sin of not seeking God leads to other sins. As man continues in sin he ends up having no fear of
God (verse 18).
Unfortunately, you are letting man be the standard of truth concerning the topic. You are sweet talking your way out of the condition of the heart of man. See Ephesians 2:1 and let me know what a dead man can do.
Rom 3:11-18 is being quoted from Psalm 13:3 of the Septuagint (most Bibles cobble together references when it is really one reference). That being said, the "fools" in the Psalm are the ones who it is true that "there is none that does good, no not one." The Psalm is bemoaning the fact that these "fools" are persecuting God's people (v. 13:4). So the Psalm is not saying that everyone is evil. It would appear that Paul, however, may be saying that. Another thing Paul could be saying is simply that both Jews and Gentiles have "baddies" among them as well - Jews are not "intrinsically" better than Gentiles.
The calvinist says that man is so depraved that he is unable to seek God and then their doctrine blames God for causing sin...
John Calvin does....
“thieves and murderers, and other evildoers, are instruments of divine providence, being employed by the Lord himself to execute judgments which he has resolved to inflict.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 5)
“The devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how muchsoever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay unless in so far as he commands, that they are not only bound by his fetters but are even forced to do him service” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 11)
John Piper does.....
"God . . . brings about all things in accordance with his will. In other words, it isn’t just that God manages to turn the evil aspects of our world to good for those who love him; it is rather that he himself brings about these evil aspects for his glory (see Ex. 9:13-16; John 9:3) and his people’s good (see Heb. 12:3-11; James 1:2-4). This includes-as incredible and as unacceptable as it may currently seem-God’s having even brought about the Nazis’ brutality at Birkenau and Auschwitz as well as the terrible killings of Dennis Rader and even the sexual abuse of a young child . . .
EVERY CALVINIST I HAVE TALKED TO DOES......
Jews thought salvation was only for them as the elect nation of God and could be achieved through works of the law. Calvinists think salvation is only for them as the Augustinian-elect of God. Ironically they both have the same elitist objections and can’t stand the fact that salvation is freely and genuinely offered to all through faith. Calvinists can even see the similarity between themselves and the Jews who boasted of their election. The irony is literally staggering. Calvinists are the 21st century Pharisees. Calvinism: Satan's way of unloading his responsibility for what he has done in this world and placing it on God.."God predetermined everything and caused everything including evil" If God predetermined everything..that means everything!! And so Calvinism places the blame of anything evil on God.. That is blasphemy..They follow a false god that is responsible for evil. I mean really?!? God gets glory by purposefully creating creatures that are intended to burn and suffer in unfathomably painstaking eternal torment as a way for Him to have glory?
I think Paul is spot-on
"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." Revelation 13:8
"and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world," Revelation 17:8
The great 18th Century Evangelist Jonathan Edwards said "true Christians are chosen by God; not before they were born, but before the foundation of the world." He knew his Bible.....
Amen read Ephesians 1:4 He [God] chose us in Him [Christ] before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love. Non-Calvinists ignore this simple verse, or try and change the plain teaching of it because it is disastrous to Arminianism.
Of course we can! Because we have been created in Gods image,so we have a Free will to either choose to seek God or not! God bless you!
We lost the Image of God and no longer have it. Wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. (It says FIND not Choose) So it is hidden for most people. Special if you try it in your own strength. Never lost is never saved. with the Idea :"choose to seek God or not! God." you will never find it.
@@MariusVanWoerden 😆🤣😂 THE IMAGE OF GOD IS THE SOUL THAT WE ARE! THE SOUL IS TRI-PART IN GODS IMAGE! MIND! HEART! WILL! THE FATHER is the MIND of God! The SON is the HEART of GOD! The HOLY SPIRIT is the WILL of GOD! THE STRAIGHT GATE AND NARROW PATH THAT LEADS TO ETERNAL LIFE IS JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF! FAITH ALONE IN THE WORK OF CHRIST ALONE! THE BROAD PATH TO DESTRUCTION IS SELF! LOOKING TO ONES SELF! AND ONES OWN "WORKS" FOR A RIGHTEOUS IDENTITY! BUT ONLY BY THE IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST HIMSELF BY WAY OF THE INDWELLING OF HIS HOLY SPIRIT CAN WE POSSESS THE HOLY PERFECTION REQUIRED FOR HEAVENLY CITIZENSHIP! WAKE UP! AND God bless you 🙏❤
@@MariusVanWoerden I really want to understand, where in the bible that says we lost the image of God?
@@strawberrymilkshake112 There are many more. God Created us in True Rightousnes We are Born in Lust to sin. Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies.
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned-
Ecclesiastes 7:20 Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.
Romans 5:19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made
Job 14:4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? There is not one.
Job 15:14 What is man, that he can be pure? Or he who is born of a woman, that he can be righteous?
Clear and easy to understand, really appreciate it!
I agree with your assessment. Good job!
Thanks for emphasizing the importance of reading scripture in context.
If man do not seek God how would explain thousands of religions? Even in the deepest forest of Amazon it was discovered that people there worship some sort of deity or god.
The Bible texts u are referring to... Is not about seeking - *a god* - it is instead, about seeking The One & Only true God.
Unbelievers can seek God. The issue is that they typically don’t.
Great video!!! The basic reading of the scriptures!!!
4:50 and 8:42 - Romans 3 and not doing good
5:25 - Psalm 103 and healing all diseases
6:25 - Hyperbole
9:40 - Acts 17
10:29 - Hebrews 11:6
11:25 - Matthew 6
12:10 and 12:45 - Acts 10 and Cornelius
I'm lovin' the J.Wayne flag over your shoulder.
Good video; If I could make a suggestion, if you can edit your video and put the words of the scripture on the screen when you read it, that would be helpful.
I'm from India and a Calvinist.
A self-describing statement with an element of determinism as well as free will.
We'll pray for your conversion.
An Calvinistic indian? No such thing.
Fair and thoughtful examination of the text. Good job.
There’s a difference also between narratives and didactic texts. You’re saying that psalms is poetic language so should be understood as hyperbole. Literary genre is important and when your using theological narratives like Matthew and acts to explain didactic texts it’s doing the opposite. Chapter 3 isn’t isolated from chapter 1:18- on as Paul is building his case against Jew and Gentile to cover humanity. From 1:18-3:20 it’s one giant section of showing an airtight case that mankind stands guilty and depraved before God. So when he uses certain psalms he’s highlighting the various groups he’s already spoken about. Total depravity doesn’t mean that people are the worst they can be as I’m sure you’re aware from your Calvinist training. The summation for whether Jew or Greek v9 is seen not only among their current culture but as it stands written which emphasizes how the scriptures themselves speak about man.
You're way off the mark especially in your analogy of the neighbors. Sure they may do good, when you compare them to mankind; what about when you compare them to God? You're premise is wonky right off the bat and therefore your Theology will inevitably be wonky.
Great video. Very succinct.
I think Romans 3:10-18 is better explained by recognizing that the reason no one seeks after God in that historical context is because no man before Christ came, died and resurrected was ABLE to since the gospel was not even available until those things would first transpire. This also corroborates with Romans 10:14 where it says:
“How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?”
In order for men to seek after God, they need to HEAR the gospel first. It was not yet available. Christ is the only gate, the only way. Men may have attempted to seek after God through idols or religion, but the perfect way was not yet made available until Christ came, died and resurrected, and the message would be preached.
Romans 3:10-18. Paul took from Psalm 14 and 53 (King David) and expounded on these OT scriptures in Romans. Even before Jesus came in the flesh, King David said men do not seek God.
Noah, while building the ark, which took 120 years, he preached to those in his communities. Word probably got around. What did he preach? It would be safe to say that he preached that men must seek after the one true God.
One historian stated that since men lived to be 800-900 years old and having children, from Adam to the day when Noah shut the door to the ark, that there were up to a billion people alive at that time. Up to a billion. And interestingly enough, not one person sought God and got inside the ark, other than Noah’s family. And is this not why God drowned every last one of them, because Genesis 6 says that EVERY M intention of their heart was evil continually. Evil is what all of them sought. Not God. That is evidence that supports Romans 3:10-18, Psalm 14, and 53.
Keep up the good work! Even a Calvinist needs the gospel and salvation.
It is not of him who wills or runs but God who chooses! Bible 101.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
30 ¶ What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 ¶ Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 ¶ But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Yeah. Bible 101. It’s by faith and not by works.
@@evanu6579 Well said grasshopper.
@@jeffhresan2886
I thought you were using Romans 9 as a Calvinist proof text. That’s how it’s usually used. That’s why I gave the context and some insight of what Paul was talking about in his letter
But I guess you knew that.
God bless.
@@evanu6579 In the end it's all worthless dribble, Solomon.
@@jeffhresan2886
That was his conclusion of the things he tried of the world. That’s not what he concluded about God and seeking Him.
Aren‘t you conflicting in min ~2 two different topics? You are talking about seeking god and then you say „I’m not saying that we can be saved apart of god“ that’s not the topic there?
As far as I hear you, you are saying that mankind is ABLE to seek after God without him working first in your life and drawing you?
So there are People that are honester, better, less sinful in nature then other that do want to be with God and start seeking for him apart of Gods grace working in his life?
The typical way is saying: „Yes no one seeks after God, but God draws everyone to him and then you have to decide if you want to accept him our not“
Absolutely - salvation is a work of God initiating/drawing, usually through the preaching of the gospel, then man must receive the gift of God's offer. Point is that people do seek God in some capacity all over the world and in different cultures; more so than what Calvinists like to admit according to their understanding of total depravity. See Acts 17. But even still this seeking is defective for salvation.
Here's another thing: your starting framework dictates your assumptions. If you already believe total inability and total depravity going into that verse, then you'll come out with it too. If you go in thinking that original sin is actually original SEPARATION, then you'll view the verse as something more like "no fish seeks after bigfoot." The fish lives completely separate from bigfoot, but if bigfoot makes himself known to the fish, he's going to respond.
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If "no one seeks for God," why did Paul call his listeners to seek God?
SPROUL: In the first place, we’re talking about what we ought to do as distinguished from what we actually do.
God commands us to seek after Him. God commands us to be perfect. God commands us to be obedient in all things. The assumption is that if God commands you to do something, you must have the ability to do it. This is what created the biggest theological issue in the first four centuries of Christendom-the debate between Pelagius and Augustine over the question of whether we, as fallen human beings, have the moral ability to lead perfect lives.
Augustine had made a prayer where he said words to this effect: “O Lord, command what thou wouldst and grant what thou dost command.” Pelagius took umbrage at that and said: “Why would you ask God to give you the ability to do something that He commands you to do? Obviously, if He commands you to do it, you can do it.” And Augustine said, “No, before the fall we could do it, but after the fall we don’t have the moral ability to do what God commands.”
So, even though we have fallen into a state of corruption and lost our moral ability to obey the command of God, that doesn’t excuse us. The command is still there.
When it comes to the question of seeking, Paul encourages people to seek after God with the hope that they might find Him (Acts 17:27). Yet at the same time, we’re told in Romans 3:10-12, “No man seeks after God, no, not one.”
We’re living in the midst of a cultural revolution of worship in our country. We have a whole new model called “seeker-sensitive worship,” where worship is designed to reach out to the unregenerate, unsaved person who is seeking for God. In that case, however, you’re designing your worship for no one because no unregenerate person actually seeks after God, if we understand what Paul is saying in Romans.
On the other hand, from our perspective, it looks like people are in fact seeking for God who have not yet come to faith. You hear it all the time: “My friend is not a believer, but he’s searching for God.” Well, God is not hiding. The imagery of Scripture in the unbeliever’s case is not that of seeking, but of fleeing. The fallen man is a fugitive; he’s not seeking after God.
Now, it may appear to us that he’s seeking after God. Thomas Aquinas answered the question this way: “The reason we think people are seeking after God when they’re not is that they are desperately and earnestly seeking for those things that only God can give them-happiness, meaning, freedom from guilt, peace-all of these benefits that accrue to those who put their faith in Christ.” From our perspective as Christians, we say, “They’re seeking the benefits that only God can give, therefore they must be seeking after God.” Aquinas said: “No, they’re not seeking after God. They want the benefits of God without God.” That’s the dilemma.
Paul, quoting the psalmist, makes it very clear that our fallen condition is such that, left to ourselves, we never seek after God. Jonathan Edwards, who was as strict an Augustinian as you would find, picked up on Paul’s other statement at Mars Hill in Acts 17:27 and developed a strange doctrine of seeking in his teaching.
Edwards would essentially say to people: “You have no desire for God. You have no inclination to come to Him. You are morally in and of yourselves incapable of coming to Him. You will never seek Him until the Holy Spirit first changes the disposition of your heart and puts a desire in your heart for Him. Then, and only then, will you seek Him. Yet, there is another kind of seeking you can have. Even out of enlightened self-interest, to avoid hell, when you don’t know whether you’re going to be redeemed or not be redeemed, the best thing you can do to hedge your bet is to be in church on Sunday every Sunday. Put yourself where the means of grace are concentrated, and peradventure God will save you.” Now, Edwards did not believe that being at church every Sunday could make somebody elect who was not already elect, but a person could at least have secondary benefits with that kind of searching through enlightened self-interest.
To return to Paul’s statements, Paul called people to do something that in and of themselves they would never be inclined to do. That’s the same kind of thing we mentioned earlier about God commanding us to do things that we are morally unable to do, but are still responsible to do.
WEBB: Didn’t Paul even mention that the unbeliever is not only failing to seek God, but he’s engaging in suppressing the truth (Rom. 1:18)?
SPROUL: Yes, and this is man’s natural inclination. He doesn’t want God in his thinking, and nobody seeks for what they don’t want. The seeker after God is the Christian. You don’t really begin to seek after God until you’re converted.
Once you’re converted, like Edwards said, “Seeking after God and seeking the kingdom of God is the main business of the Christian life.” That’s why worship on Sunday morning is to be designed chiefly and principally for the believer, not for the unbeliever. If an unbeliever happens to come, he’ll have the benefit of hearing the Word of God, but worship should be structured for the true seeker-the believer.
This transcript is from an Ask R.C. Live event with R.C. Sproul and has been lightly edited for readability. To ask Ligonier a biblical or theological question, just visit Ask.Ligonier.org or message us on Facebook or Twitter.
To any Calvinists reading this, please give me your testimony I would like to hear it in your own words.
I try in vain on many Calvinist sites to get an answer but they WILL NOT ANSWER for some reason.
My text question reads.
So from what you have been saying I sounds like you are sure you are one of the Elected for Heaven.
How do you know you are one of the Elect?
What did your life look like before you were regenerated and had no faith?
What did your life look like after you were regenerated and had faith?
At what age in your life did your regeneration take place?
How does it feel to know you are chosen and the majority of the human race is not?
TRUTH IN LOVE
hello. i don't believe being calvanistic or non calvanistic is a salvation issue, but knowing that salvation is of God from start to finish, truly has blessed me. i rest in knowing that no one can separate me from the Lord. not even myself. i rest in knowing that im saved and the holy spirit has sealed me, not because of anything i've done, but only because of the righteousness of Christ.
before regeneration i was an alcoholic, cross dressing, lesbian whore.
after regeneration my desires have changed, my appearance has changed, i attend church regularly, i have love for the saints and my neighbors, all to the glory of God! most importantly, i have this overwhelming love for a man i've never met. im amazed at times!
my regeneration took place at 27, ten years ago.
God is slow to anger, merciful, just ect. i can only trust what he says through his word. romans 9:14-26. i know ppl have a hard time understanding it and accepting it, but God can do whatever he chooses and we are his creatures. we are to preach the gospel. whoever hears and believes will be saved. my brother died at 31 an atheist. i know ill never see him again. the thought hurts sometimes but i give all my pain to the Lord. he does whatever he chooses. who am i to complain. god bless
@@taytae28 That is great for you but what about the millions that are being poisoned by the cults.
Your right saying " i don't believe being calvanistic or non calvanistic is a salvation issue" It isn't as long as you treat Calvinism like Moronism or Catholicism. They are all Cults and Doctrine of demons.
Lets hear from the founder the monster John Calvin
John Calvin wrote the following after the murder of Servetus on October 27,1553 early in 1554 in defense of his role in the murder: “Whoever shall now contend that it is unjust to put heretics and blasphemers to death will knowingly and willingly incur their very guilt. This is not laid down on human authority; it is God who speaks and prescribes a perpetual rule for his Church.
Calvin said "God prescribes a perpetual rule for his Church." In other words a death sentence is still in effect today in the Calvinist churches.
I didn't make this up.
I am the messenger quoting word for word.
TRUTH IN LOVE
@@truth7416 being a calvinist doesn't mean we worship john calvin. it means we agree with the five points he authored, which we believe are biblical
@@taytae28 Jesus described men like John Calvin as a false teacher. To follow anything he says is willingly accepting his Heresy.
Perhaps these hidden facts that are in public domain will shed some light on the man you are defending and teaching you are following.
John Calvin’s Bodycount…
The victims are listed, followed by references, (A)…(L), the URLs of which are at the bottom.
A. Execution
1. Jacques Gruet
(A)”Thus the State issued dogmatic decrees, the force of which had been anticipated earlier, as when Jacques Gruet, a known opponent of Calvin, was arrested, tortured for a month and beheaded on July 26, 1547, for placing a letter in Calvin’s pulpit calling him a hypocrite. Gruet’s book was later found and burned along with his house while his wife was thrown out into the street to watch.”
(C)”Calvin cut off the head of Jacques Gruet “for having written impious letters, libertine verses, and for working to overthrow ecclesiastical ordinances.”
(D)Quoting Stephan Zweig’s “The Right to Heresy”: “Jacques Gruet was racked and then executed merely for having called Calvin a hypocrite.”
(E)”This regime was resisted by a party incorrectly described as ‘Libertines’, which Calvin succeeded in overcoming by force. Among the opponents executed after torture were Jacques Gruet (1547), Raoul Monnet (1549), and, best known, Michael *Servetus (1553).”
(F)”Even eminent men were not safe from Calvin’s control. Jacques Gruet was beheaded for blasphemy, treason, and a threat to the ministers.”
(J)
2. Giovanni Valentino Gentile
(A)and(G)”Another victim of Calvin’s fiery zeal was Gentile of an Italian sect in Geneva, which also numbered among its adherents Alciati and Gribaldo. More or less Unitarian in their views, they were required to sign a confession drawn up by Calvin in 1558. Gentile signed it reluctantly, but in the upshot he was condemned and imprisoned as a perjurer. He escaped only to be twice incarcerated at Berne where, in 1566, he was beheaded.”
(H) & (I) Very full accounts of Gentile
3. Michael Servetus Is much needed about him? Is there any debate about his murder?
(A)
(C)”Seven years before the conference which was now to take place in Calvin’s house on the proposals of the queen-mother, Michel Servet, a Frenchman, travelling through Switzerland, was arrested at Geneva, tried, condemned, and burned alive, on Calvin’s accusation, for having “attacked the mystery of the Trinity,” in a book which was neither written nor published in Geneva.”
(E)(J)
4. Raoul Monnet
(E)
(J)page 223 “This regime was resisted by a party incorrectly described as “Libertines, which Calvin succeeded in overcoming by force.Among the opponents executed after torture were Jacques Gruet (1547), Raoul Monnet (1549), and best known, Michael Servetus (1553). By 1555, however, all resistance had ceased and Calvin was the uncontested master of the city.”
5. Others
(A)”Calvin also had twenty women burned at the stake after accusing them of causing a plague that had swept through Geneva in 1545.”
(A)”Calvin did not shrink from his self-appointed task. Within five years fifty-eight sentences of death and seventy-six of exile, besides numerous committals of the most eminent citizens to prison, took place in Geneva.”
(F)”A heretic who also was an anti-Trinitarian was burned at the stake.” NOTE: Probably Servetus
B. Banishment (mere banishment!)
1. Castellio
(A)”Gruet’s death was more highly criticized by far than the banishment of Castellio or the penalties inflicted on Bolsec - moderate men opposed to extreme views in discipline and doctrine, who fell under suspicion as reactionary.”
(B)
(K) Very full account of Castellio
2. Bolsec
(A)(B)(F)”Jerome Bolsec, a physician who attacked Calvin’s doctrine of predestination, was banished.”
(L)
3. Others
(A)”Calvin did not shrink from his self-appointed task. Within five years fifty-eight sentences of death and seventy-six of exile, besides numerous committals of the most eminent citizens to prison, took place in Geneva.”
A. www.biblelife.org/calvinism.htm
B. www.gospeltruth.net/heres…_chap5.htm
C. www.worldwideschool.org/l…hap16.html
D. www.dimensional.com/~randl/calvin.htm
E. www.gospelcom.net/chi/HER…l047.shtml
F. www.churchlink.com.au/chu…alvin.html
G. www.newadvent.org/cathen/03195b.htm
H. www.ccel.org/s/schaff/hcc…xv.xiv.htm
I. online.sksm.edu/ouh/chapter/13_XIII.html
J. The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church; F.L. Cross and E.A. Livingstone; Oxford University Press;
K. www.ccel.org/s/schaff/hcc….xv.ix.htm (different page from H)
L. www.ccel.org/s/schaff/hcc…v.viii.htm
John Calvin is a man who is held up by many evangelicals as an example of the most perfect systematic theologian that ever lived. And yet it would appear that he did not even meet the basic requirements of a NT overseer/bishop as to godly character!
1 Tim 3:2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.
The New Testament approach to false teachers is the precise opposite of what Calvin’s modus operandi was:
2 Tim 2:24 The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,
25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,
26 and they may come to their senses {and escape} from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.
As to the relationship of his doctrine to his practice, as he plainly taught that everything that happens is God’s will (I can provide the quotes if you would like), then it necessarily follows that he considered everything he did as God’s will, even having his detractors beheaded, burned at the stake, or banished. I’m saying that one’s theology inevitably works out in one’s practice, and this was all too apparent in the life of John Calvin.
If I had someone who disagreed with my theology put to death (had I the political power Calvin had), would I be qualified to teach the Word of God?
One’s actions don’t have any bearing on the authenticity of one’s teaching? It seems to me that we should hold ANY theologian to the same moral standard as any other teacher in the body of Christ.
john@revivaltheology.net
TRUTH IN LOVE
@@truth7416like i stated earlier, agreeing with reformed theology...total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, perseverance of the saints are still biblical. i stand on the theology not the man
I never really read that verse that way. I think a method to keep from the whole "my verse versus your verse scenario" is that we have to remember the sovereignty of King Jesus, he said "A house divided against itself will not stand"
it's also a pretty good hermeneutical rule of thumb
Never believed in total depravity or the so called tulip, iits prideful and even cruel.
This guy is ignorant and false in working thru the doctrines of man, which includes original sin and it’s affect on Adam and all after. The doctrine of depravity isn’t solely from Romans 3 and it’s a strawman to bring out verse if ppl “seeking” God. A full systematic and biblical theological look at the issue is needed. This guy undermines sound biblical teaching regarding the nature of man (anthropology). The young man is playing with apparent “paradoxes” demonstrating only his disqualified ability to actually teach. Using “hyperbole” (like the word “all”?) and making a beginners attempt hermeneutically. Dangerous teaching and teacher.
According to Bible they can't. Bible clear that none seek after God, Spiritually dead which means they can't seek God because dead people don't seek anything, and yes we are prone by nature to hate God and our neighbor Rom 8:7. Eph 2:3. No need to try to do contex gymnastics to make the clear less clear.
Dead people don't do sin niether coz they are dead..
@@eugenegerman8218 SPIRITUALLY dead. Not physically dead.
"context gymnastics"? You may need to learn how to read, and I don't mean that to be condescending. Reading in context is basic to moderate reading comprehension. Without it, then literature would be totally dry, technical, and tedious. Why do you want to take verses in isolation to come up with a particular belief?
@@gokupepper Exactly, reading in context is basic and interpreting scripture with scripture as well. Glad we agree.
If Calvin was a hireling maybe that's why he came up with that idea because if you are already not knowing a Good Shepherd or hear his voice then man is totally deprived! But if you can follow the greatest 2 commands and not Rob with a tithe it makes those filthy rags come to life
Tithe??? For the New Testament church????... NEVER
DID CALVIN TEACH REGENERATION PROCEEDING FAITH? Not according to John Calvin's own Institutes. In Book III, chapter 3, Neither does scripture. we find the following opening text that makes it very clear that regeneration follows from faith. After presenting this, I will show from the same text that Calvin equated "regeneration" with repentance..
(see Calvin in John. 1:13). For since pardon and forgiveness are offered by the preaching of the Gospel, in order that the sinner, delivered from the tyranny of Satan, the yoke of sin, and the miserable bondage of iniquity, may pass into the kingdom of God, it is certain that no man can embrace the grace of the Gospel without retaking himself from the errors of his former life into the right path, and making it his whole study to practice repentance. Those who think that repentance precedes faith instead of flowing from, or being produced by it, as the fruit by the tree, have never understood its nature, and are moved to adopt that view on very insufficient grounds.
This seems clear enough so we proceed now to Calvin's treatment of regeneration.
By repentance I understand regeneration (spiritual regeneration) , the only aim of which is to form in us anew the image of God, which was sullied, and all but effaced by the transgression of Adam. So the Apostle teaches when he says, "We all with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, as by the Spirit of the Lord." Again, "Be renewed in the spirit of your minds" and "put ye on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness." Again, "Put ye on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him. Accordingly through the blessing of Christ we are renewed by that regeneration into the righteousness of God from which we had fallen through Adam, the Lord being pleased in this manner to restore the integrity of all whom he appoints to the inheritance of life. God assigns repentance as the goal towards which they must keep running during the whole course of their lives.
I strongly recommend that interested persons actually attend to Calvin's writings rather than assume they know what he taught. And special stay away from Leighton Flowers’s. Sproul and piper
Justification is a work of God the Father and the Holy Spirit in us and without us. Justification and faith do not have a sequence in time but in order Faith- Justification but are simultaneously in time. Sanctification is a work of The Holy Spirit in us but not without us. Justification and SANCTIFICATION cannot be separated. There is no sanctification without justification or justification without sanctification, this even when sanctification is just a begin of regeneration through all our life. Faith is by Grace and the free gift of God. The Bible teaches us the Justification of the UNGODLY. [Made/ declared Righteous] God The Father the Judge does not say: not guilty He says GUILTY But then point to Christ Not a believer is justified nor one that chooses justification.
This does not leave any room for salvation other than by the Conviction of the Holy Spirit of our lost state without Christ as being the first in Salvation of men. It is true what was said of old: “ Who Works First We Know Last.”
There is a general working of the Holy Spirit in the hearing of the Word that convicts and precedes faith but not always leads to salvation. See the parable of the sower.
This is how Calvin preached the Gospel
FREE OFFER OF THE GOSPEL (Calvin's Wisdom p119-120)
He calls all men to himself, without a single exception, and gives Christ to all, that we may be illumined by him. When we pray, we ought, according to the rule of charity, to include all. God invites all indiscriminately to salvation through the Gospel, BUT THE INGRATITUDE OF THE WORLD IS THE REASON why this grace, which is equally offered to all, is enjoyed by few.
I see a huge defense of Calvin but very little scripture .
@@tonyo2195 The Reformation is part of History. Calvin did not make a new doctrine but all he did is referring to the early church fathers like John Chrysostom, against the heresies of the Catholic church However I gladly give you some Bible text
Words like “predestined - predestinated - foreknowledge - elect - election - foreordained” appear with regularity and are always the basis for Pauline teaching on salvation. When someone denies personal predestination from before the foundation of the World” it shows that they have never really stood toe-to-toe with the Bible and read it for what it actually says. The staunchest brick wall opposition to deny the truth of God’s word is always built on traditions of men; never on the clear word of Scripture. Our fleshly, human ego just loves the idea that our “will” is totally at liberty. Yet, the Bible tells us that we are “dead in trespasses and sins.” Human tradition refuses to believe that. And Biblical salvation is always based on God’s free and sovereign grace, Only His will and His good pleasure; NEVER on our willingness first and God’s grace last. Again, human tradition refuses to believe that.
Exodus 33:19 And he said, “I will make all my goodness pass before you and will proclaim before you my name ‘The Lord.’ And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.
Proverbs 16:4 The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of doom.
Matthew 20:23 He said to them, “You will drink my cup, but to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”
Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”
Matthew 25:34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Mark 13:20 And if the Lord had not cut short the days, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days.
John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 12 : 40“He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so that they cannot see with their eyes, and understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.” It means that they have the Bible and the Gospel, but like Arminius Palagians like Leighton Flowers even if they have the Gospel their eyes are Blind for it.
41Isaiah said these things because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about Him.…
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.
John 17:9 I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours.
Romans 8:28-30 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Romans 9:11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
Romans 11:7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,
2 Timothy 1:9 Who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,
Ephesians 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will.
Ephesians 1:11-12 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory.
1 Peter 1:2 According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.
1 Peter 1:20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you
Galatians 1:15 But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace,
1 Thessalonians 1:4 For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you,
Revelation 13:8 And all who dwell on earth will worship it, ( So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast) everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.
Revelation 20:1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more.
Revelation 20:7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan WILL BE released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. “WILL BE” means it will happen BECAUSE of God’s Decree.
Why now release Satan to deceive the nations? This lifetime is short and Hell is forever. Would you rather be presumptuous and not find out the truth. Never Lost is Never Saved.
Also part of the Predestination is people in Thailand and many other countries like were Islam is predominant Thailand with 93% practicing Buddhist and 5.5% Islam 1.5% divided in no religion and Christians? To be born & raised a Buddhist only a miracle from our Sovereign Lord can change the heart of a person. If God wanted all to be saved all would be saved. The old covenant was for Israel only. The new covenant does not have limitation to certain people.
@@tonyo2195 Here is another one I hope this is enough Scripture for you.
God chose Noah and his Family while 5 Billion people died the gruesome dead of drowning in the flood. It was not the Devil to chose to be the Devil but it was God’s Eternal plan. All God’s thought are Eternal and never begun. It is because Jesus is the Eternal Savior.
Matthew 10: 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from YOUR FATHER’S WILL. Some will tell you it is the bird’s fault. But what about the greatest catastrophic event? Was God not in control of that?
Matthew 10:34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. After God created all things and God saw that it was good [perfect] God planted a tree: “The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and EVIL.” Men did not know about evil but God did.
Blasphemers are those that deny the Sovereignty of God. Iblīs was an Angel he was cast out of heaven because he argued with God why He created men who He made out of clay in His own Image with so much Glory. He said with more other angels to God: "You created them from clay and us from Fire Psalm 104:4 why are we servants." we should receive more glory than they. God’s anger arose and Fire came from His Nostrils. The anger of God was never seen before. God turned those rebellious angels back to fire. That also is the reason for the unquenchable fire in Hell. Michael and the angels on God’s side started war and threw Iblīs and his followers out of Heaven. But one escaped and due to his fall from God's grace and jealousy he went to the earth to Paradise and deceived Adam and Eve to hurt God in the Crown of His creation. Iblis is often identified with Al-Shaitan ("the Devil"). The name Iblīs is derived from Ancient Greek διάβολος (diábolos). There was no Devil on day 6 when God saw that all he made was GOOD. If God did not predetermine things, God The Creator of Heaven and Earth could have thrown Iblīs In hell in the outer darkness or even destroy/ Annihilate him completely. But no God let him go to the earth and went in the body of a snake and deceive Eva and then Adam. God already had a plan of salvation from eternity past, that Christ our Lord would come and die for the sins of the world. The plan was not optional it was determent. When God planted the tree, God already knew that Eve would take from the fruit. God even made the fruit from that tree more attractive. It was because sin was needed for Christ to take upon Him humanity and die for the sins of the world.
Creation was not finished on the 6th day but it will be when our Lord reveals the Glorious plan when the New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven. In Isaiah 14 Lucifer is not the devil it is the King of Babylon in context of Isaiah 13 and means son or star of the morning. The translators left it in Latin.
Joseph went to see his Brothers. What happened they were jealous of him being his dad’s favored kid. We know what happened he was sold as a slave to Egypt. He becomes the slave of Potiphar. His wife want Joseph in her bed. Joseph refusal end him up in jail where he reveals a dream and because of it he was called by pharaoh who also had a dream. He became the second ruler in Egypt. Joseph’s brothers came to Egypt because of hunger in the world. Was God in Control of that? Joseph tells his brothers Genesis 45:5 But don’t be upset. And don’t be angry with yourselves because you sold me here. God sent me ahead of you to SAVE MANY LIVES. 6 For two years now, there hasn’t been enough food in the land. It was God’s plan even the drought God could have given rain. God knew that the drought would force Jacob and his sons to Egypt and made Joseph go ahead of them. It's clear this was the plan of God! Jacob went to Egypt to move there and see Joseph again. God did NOT tell Jacob to start a mission post in Egypt. Did they not need the faith of Jacob if God wants them Saved? But instead God gave them their own territory the land of Goshen separated from the Egyptians. The Israelites became Slaves for 400 years. This the Lord already told Abraham Genesis 15:13. It was not an option it was determent and instead of doing mission they started to serve the Idols of the Egyptians. God made pharaoh affright for the Israelites [or was it not God Who controlled even the tiniest thought of the Pharaoh if He can Harden his heart?] He started to kill every boy born to the Israelites. Because of it Moses ended up with the princes of Egypt and could have all the riches of Egypt but: Hebrews 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, You get it God was in control of the weather and could have given rain so Joseph’s brothers would not have gone to Egypt. Also God did not have to send Joseph ahead. Pharaoh’s heart would not have been hardened and all first born in Egypt who did not know the left from the right hand not have died. All the calamities in the desert would not have happened. From the almost 2 Million people that left Egypt very few and only those born after leaving Egypt entered the promised land. What about all the first born in Egypt who died because God hardened the heart of Pharaoh. All the army of pharaoh drowned in the red sea without the Gospel. And the order of the Lord to kill each other after worship of the Golden Calf. 3,000 were killed by sword instead of a temporary punishment to give them time to repent and being forgiven. This worship was because they went to Egypt were they learned serving Idol gods. Was that a good reason for God to let them kill each other? Or did God not have to give an account to anyone for what He does?
Daniel 4: 34 At the end of the days I, Nebuchadnezzar, lifted my eyes to heaven, and my reason returned to me, and I blessed the Most High, and praised and honored him who lives forever, for his dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom endures from generation to generation; 35 all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, and he does according to his will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say to him, “What have you done?” It is time for us to come to this same conclusion
Joseph being sold to Egypt and Just a period of drought created all this. Everything was God’s plan. All God’s thoughts and degrees are from eternity.
Revelation 20: 1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more.
Revelation 20:7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan WILL BE released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. “WILL BE” means it will happen BECAUSE of God’s Decree.
Why now release Satan to deceive the nations?
This lifetime is short and Hell is forever. Would you rather be presumptuous and not find out the truth.
…Then the righteous will answer him, saying, “Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?” And the King will answer them, “Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.” (Matthew 25:37-40) those being Saved by grace did not know that what they did that pleased God. They knew themselves to be undeserving sinners. Only on the day the New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven we sure will know 2 things It was grace and grace alone I would have chosen dead if it would have been up to me. What God our Lord did was the MOST perfect plan men could never even imagine before it was revealed in Eternity.
What about 70 Million Buddhists in Thailand. 93% in Thailand are Buddhists and 5.5% Islam. Why???
If God wants all men to be saved, did God fail to bring the gospel to all people on the earth. And why first Israel only with very few exceptions.
What do you do with Mathew 7:7-8 and countless other texts about seeking God ?
Your system is confusing ,
The simple invitation of John 3:16 helped me leave the horrible grip of Calvinistic legalism .
The author of this video presents the simple Bible message using only the Bible !
And here you come with Calvin and lots of it !
@@tonyo2195 I already showed you many Bible text that shows that God from eternity has planned Everything like the number that will be saved.(Actually planned is the wrong word because God's thoughts are from Eternity and never began) But I cannot convince the pope and I cannot convince you. There are two things The offer of Grace and God's plan from eternity. For the Free offer of Grace you don't need to leave the Reformation (what people call Calvinism.) If the anti-Calvinist were right there would have been no Gospel for the last 1200 years and even not before that. If you were right it would go back to Pelagius about 400AD. About 20 to 30 million people died by burning at the stake for not giving up their faith but singing God's praises. Do you claim a heresy???? William Tyndale was burned at the stake for translating the Bible and being a Calvinist on 6 October 1536.
The Catholic church became a Heretical church in about 700 around the same time Mohamed killed all the Christians in Asia Minor. After 700 to the reformation, there was barely any preaching of the Gospel. The Waldensians from about 1100 were persecuted by the Catholic Church and joined the reformation under William Farel who became good friends with Jean Calvin. From the reformation to begin 1800, all preaching was Calvinist, I rather say reformed because we don't follow a man. Calvin brought the Bible back in the church. In the Catholic church, the Bible was a Forbidden Book for the lay people even till 1940. Calvin Luther, Zwingli, John Knox and so many more opposed the teaching of the pope; one of them was conducting all worship in Latin so people did not understand a word of it. All the reformation did in opposing the Catholic [church]. What Leighton tells you goes back to Pelagius and did barely exist after that till about the teachings of Charles Finney Born: August 29, 1792, with teaching Decisional regeneration. Arminius his real name Jacob Hermanszoon [Arminius is a Latinized name] never said much during his life because he was a professor in Leiden and could have lost his position. Dirck Coornherd after Arminius dead brought out his teaching and Uitenbogard wrote the 5 articles against the Remonstrant. After that as an answer, the Synod of Dordrecht 1618 made the 5 articles against the remonstrants. Calvin or even Arminius had already past-away. Calvin 80 years earlier. NO_ONE who studied history can oppose the Reformed teaching. That is because Historical bashing of the reformation does not make sense.
THIS IS HOW CALVIN PREACHED THE GOSPEL
He calls all men to himself, without a single exception, and gives Christ to all, that we may be illumined by him. When we pray, we ought, according to the rule of charity, to include all. God invites all indiscriminately to salvation through the Gospel, BUT THE INGRATITUDE OF THE WORLD IS THE REASON why this grace, which is equally offered to all, is enjoyed by few.
Other than the result of men’s refusal. Calvin as you can see and put the responsibility by men.
The five articles are NOT from Calvin, he never put the doctrine of grace in points. It was put together on the Synod of Dordecht in 1618- 1619 70 years after Calvin. Calvin would never have agreed to Limited Atonement.
The Reformation was God's Work. In a total Dark time and reign of the Pope church, lay-people were forbidding to read the Bible, William Tyndale was burned at the stake by the Catholic Inquisition for Translating the Bible in English. He could have saved his life by denouncing his faith, But he went without fear to be burned alive, singing the praises of God. Men being in control of Heaven is part of the Catholic church doctrine. God moved the heart of a monk to read Romans 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.” and got Saved by GRACE. Martin Luther nailed on the day before all saints day. 95 teases to the door of Slot Kirchen (Castle Church) in Wittenberg. They were written in Latin. But 1000th of priest converted and started to preach (which was not allowed ) the Bible and not Catholic prayer books and idle liturgy. Millions came to faith in the Lord. The 95 teases from martin Luther was a Greater Miracle than David Killing Goliath with a single stone. It killed the giant of Rome the doctrine of the Devil. Martin Luther and Calvin absolutely agreed in everything. The only difference they had is that Luther believed the substantiation of the bread in the Lords Supper. It is a terrible thing to bash what God did to set us free from the heresy of the pope like praying to the saints. Pretty much no-one knew the truth anymore. JONATHAN EDWARDS ON THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD (CALVINISM)
"The Sovereignty of God is the stumbling block on which thousands fall and perish; and if we go contending with God about His sovereignty it will be our eternal ruin. It is absolutely necessary that we should submit to God as an absolute sovereign, and the sovereign of our souls; as one who may have mercy on whom He will have mercy and harden whom He will" (Jonathan Edwards).
The quote above, by Jonathan Edwards, is excerpted from Arminianism: Another Gospel -
Jonathan Edwards
Most historians consider Jonathan Edwards, a Northampton Anglican minister, one of the chief fathers of the Great Awakening.
Edwards’ message centred around the ideas that humans were sinners, God was an angry judge and individuals needed to ask for forgiveness. He also preached justification by faith alone.
In 1741, Edwards gave an emotional sermon, entitled “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.” No-one in the church had dry eyes. It was not the gifted preacher because Edwards read most of the sermon. It was a strong conviction of the Holy Spirit. News of
Unfortunately, the scriptures are not talking about your co-worker's neighbors and friends but the uncontrollable human nature in us all if let loose with no restraint we can and will destroy each other, Paul is referring to the human race as he is observing in his time as a whole (context)
just watch the news to confirm Paul and Romans.
Yes exactly thanks
I’m walking away from Calvinism but listening to your questions I thought of abortion and the rage and anger of online atheists and all most became a Calvinist again! Lol
Calvinism or Arminianism have nothing to do with this. Those that have been convicted by the Holy Spirit and came to faith will say: "I would have chosen dead and Hell, But by grace I was save not by my choice or righteousness but it was ALL and ONLY God's work in me.
My neighbor is an agnostic and he's a terrific guy.
i will be making a response to this. you misrepresented the doctrine of total depravity, mostly.
he is going through Romans 3:10-17 basically, and it was a great job, don't you think? He has great points right?
LUKE 17:20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.ITS ALL ALLEGORY FLESH AND BLOODS LOOK OUTSIDE FOR IT, WAKE UP.
no ones lost, just looking outside where lost is seen is flesh and blood minds, God in every man who is exercising good and evil blindness,
Thank you for this. Total depravity makes no sense
A converted Calvinist. Impossible you would have to exercise😆 free will.
They unredeemed seek God all the time - they call themselves Muslims
You just asking or ya really wanna know...??? What do ya think Isa 1:10-20 (V18) is about..or Jer 29:13 how about this...Jn 5:39,40..." you will...NOT..come to me....that you might have..life.." Never said they cant....said they wont... Num.21:7,9...all they had to do was look...&...live...hellooooooo..of course man can SEEK God...God wouldn't say.." SEEK Me....if ya couldnt...SEEK Him...men may be that stupid but God...isnt... Isa.55:6,7,8..." SEEK The Lord while He may be found...call on Hin while He is near.."(V6-8 Ezek.33:3..;18:23,31,32... can man SEEK..God??? What a dumb question..ya should be asking..WHY Men dont SEEK God..especially in our churches...where they use to & could....but nolonger...can..for so many reasons i,ll cite just two #1 all so called " modern..." bible have NO God in them for man to...SEEK..!!! i.e.Lk.2:33 " his FATHER..& Mother..."???? if that's true Jesus Christ is NOT God... in 1Tim.3:16.. all " modern.." bibles w/ o exception..DENY...that Christ is come in the flesh...w/ their cheap.." he appeared in a body...".. no mystery there folks...who of us..hasnt..?? Who,s the " he..."???? ya got any idea how many.." He, s have appeared in a body since the 1st century???? Which of these " hes did ya have in...mind???no...the mystery was that God was manifest in the flesh...not some ambiguous @ best..." he.." also ya dont get " he.." in English fm.." theos.." in the greek...just as ya dont get..." father.." in English...fm. Joseph in the greek...in Lk.2:33...these many many more like them in " modern " bibles...are outright DENIALS that Christ is comr in the flesh...& that boys w/ berries for...brains..makes them...ANTI CHRISTS...see 1Jn4:2-6(V3) in Acts8:36'38 they eliminated V37 I mean even the #37 is gone...no doubt for purposes of...clarity...& by doing so what did these retards eliminate....expunge...erase...& omit??? #1 Who Jesus Christ..is..The Son of God #2 The only requirement for Salvation..." I believe.." & #3 Why the guy went home..Rejoicing..he had just gotten..saved!! Yet all our greek geek guru...wannabes saw fit to expunge fm..the Record that God gave of His...Son..so fm the stand point of all " modern" bibles...there s no God in them for man to seek...but fm the AV/ KJV...There,s plenty of reasons to SEEK..God...#1 they,re commanded to..Jer.29:13;Isa1:10-20(V18) same in Num21:7,8; Ezek.18:23,31,31;33:11;Isa55:7,8 Jn5:39,40 to mention a few again...why would God say " SEEK Me..." if they had NO..capacity to...do....so...??? contrary to Roman Catholic Reformed Calvinism..that teaches " man has NO capacity to SEEK God..." & certainly NO WILL by which to...do...so...ya gotta be " of the Elect...1st...& ya cant be of the Elect..unless ya...Regenerated...& ya cant be...Regenerated..unless ya of the Elect...anybody see a CIRULAR...Pattern going on here ya know kinda like Circular..Reasoning...???.so #1 ya csnt be of the elect unless ya rehenerated..#2 ya cant be regenerated unless ya of the elect..#3 ya cant find any of this slop'ology in God s word...I mean " ya gotta be born again..in order to be born again..."??? it doesnt get dumber than that folks...SEEK...God??? Zw/ what..?? they have NO Bibles w/ which to...do...so...!! But God has NOT left us in the dark on these matters...He,s left us w/ the witness of His word...both the written word..AV/ KJV...Jn.17:17 & The Living Word...Rev19:13...so what ya do w/ the Living Word..ya doing to the Written...& vice versea..why bc they are one & the...same...Inspired...Infallible...& Inrrant...Pure...Perfect...& Preservered...Just as our Lord Jesus Christ...is...just as there s nothing...Missing...Revised..& Omitted in The Living Word...AV/ KJV..so the same can be said of the..
Living Word...Jesus Christ...why I even bother to put this stuff out there..is beyond me...I feel like I'm talking to tree stumps...