Why I'm Not a Calvinist (Ben Witherington)
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
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In this video, Ben Witherington III here shares his reasons why he's not a Calvinist.
Thank u Dr Ben.
I've been a Nazarene all my life, and the more I study 5-point Calvinism as a mature adult, and Christian, is the more I see how its doctrines are an affront to the character of God.
Colossians 1:15-20
Exactly. Some say it’s a slander
John Calvin doesnt have a salvation testimony..
Im a 1 Point Calvinist
Wrong , your guy in the video doesn’t know the doctrine and you don’t either .. so go ahead believe the wrong idea .. John Calvin was fallible , he only taught what revealed to him in the scriptures , mostly preachers today have the wrong view of God
As a Catholic I liked his presentation. I could sit with this man and find common ground.
Catholics is false doctrine
Arminianism has a lot of common ground with Catholicism, which is why it was so controversial in the 16th and 17th century. Indeed, the First English Civil War in part was a war between Arminians (Royalists) and Calvinists (Parliamentarians).
As an also Catholic myself, we Catholics can frequently find common ground with some Protestant teachings. They're not completely wrong nor are they completely right.
That makes sense since Arminianism has more in common with Roman Catholicism than Calvinism does. But I myself am a 4.5 point Calvinist (the L is half-true).
I think we as humans dig too deeply. We will never fully understand God. All these different theologies causes unnecessary debates.
We should be spreading the Good News, witnessing and testifying about Jesus. We should be living righteous & acceptable lives, keeping God first out of the love and respect we have for Him.
We all will be held accountable for ourselves on that Day. The Bible clearly tells us what we should and should not do. And if there is ever a lack of understanding he advises us to come to Him for wisdom and understanding- not man. We shouldn't lean on our own knowledge which is why we need the Holy Spirit, who will lead & guide us into all truth.
The concern should be am I truly walking with Jesus? Have I been born again? Am I doing God's will?
💯👏💯👏💯👏 Amen & amen, my sister-in-Christ!
Neisha, the problem is that doctrine has effects. Bad doctrine will produce bad effects and good doctrine will produce good effects. I'll give an example. I attend a reformed church that teaches the five points of Calvinism. One Sunday I went up to the high school aged son of a friend of mine and asked him a question. My friend had told me that his son came to church every Sunday but didn't consider himself a Christian. So I asked him what he felt was keeping him from being a Christian. He said "God is". I asked him what he meant. He said, "Well, if I'm chosen from before the foundation of the world to be a Christian, then I'll become a Christian, and if not, then I won't. It isn't up to me, it's up to the decree of God.
His statement really bothered me. Because of it, and other crazy results that I've seen from the Calvinist doctrines, I've been reexamining them in light of Scripture.
I agree with you. But there are many unbibilical church doctrines out there which are extremely deceptive are misleading many. So, like many sisters & brothers led by the Spirit of truth, it is hard to sit still when you hear some of these doctrines.
I always tell people to repent, believe in & follow Jesus Christ alone, & be baptized of water & the Spirit (the Spirit will direct one in all truths). Living in righteousness (loving God & neighbor), & in the Spirit is really all one needs. And without which, many will fall for strange & unbibilcal church doctrines!
Thank you sir. I totally agree.
@Danny Murdach I agree. Most importantly, I have real spiritual experiences that consistent with the scriptures, including dreams, visions, even revelation about the things I never before understood in the scriptures. I have also been led by the Spirit to know something about to happen in my life before they happen & this happens so regularly.
Recently I was let go from my job for no reason at all. About 6 weeks before it happened, the Spirit impressed upon me to make a list of names & numbers of my coworkers who wanted to hear more about the gospel. And a couple of days before it happened, the Spirit impressed upon me to prepare myself & get ready because time was up....
The model of the story is that in accordance with calvinism of the above is made up experiences, the Holy Spirit had nothing to do with all of them. Man, that is dangerous teaching! I feel sorry for those following people like McArthur! I will stick with Christ, the Spirit, & scriptures....
After struggling with a lot of frustrating experiences with churches, this video is helping me to better understand why I struggled so much. I didn’t realize all of this pain I experienced was based in Calvinism.
Amen..
My heart aches for you but prays you find the Truth
That's a beautiful thing to hear someone say my friend..Biblical salvation is nothing like cavinism has told you..I'll help you any way possible as you transition out of calvinism into right doctrine.. May GOD bless you with the discernment you need to understand HIS word..
How in the world did Calvinism cause you pain? Would you please explain? Understanding the Sovereignty of God has brought me Joy and peace and a deeper love for God. Yes I'm a Calvinist.
@@randym.7238 first of all you don't know what the sovereignty of GOD is because you've made up your own definition of it . Concerning the other , it's none of your business. Take my humble but very serious advice and flee from the false teachings of calvinism that deems CHRIST dishonest and cruel . GOD bless
Nobody taught me calvinism and arminianism.
But the arminian view is the logical and natural response to what you read in the Bible.
With calvinism you have to twist your mind and make a mockery of logic and reason that God gave us (God is a logical being, we are created in his image) in order to be able to see tulips everywhere.
What foolishness. You obviously do not know the Word of the Lord.
One instance I have seen of 'Calvinist logic' is this: "This is because if Christ takes away the sins of the world, God would be unjust if He punished the world again for the same sins Jesus took away. " Written by a Calvinist friend of mine.
Exactly. I never heard of this saying prior, but I've understood the same thing, that no one becomes a calvinist from reading the Bible. God's sovereignty, man's free choice, the punishment for choosing evil over good, the grace of God that chooses to intervene and give people the opportunity to be saved and the grace that pardons those that believe and chose Him as their Lord is pronounced deeply in the entire Bible old and new testament! You just can't miss it and have to be purposely blind.
Calvinism is rooted in Gnosticism and not the Bible, therefore it’s not possible to read and comprehend the Bible and then become a Calvinist. However, if one has a presuppositional religious belief or theology, then the Bible says whatever that person wants it to say.
@HeShallReign mmhhh even though I agree God has chosen people to be saved in Jesus. That quote is nonetheless not scripture.
I love this! I’m not Methodist, but very much agree.
Romans 5:18, 11:32-36 my friend
You would think the entire Bible whereby God is constantly interacting with humanity beseeching them to do what is right, to repent, and come back to Him would be a sign that God didn't choose beforehand for people to go to heaven or hell from the beginning of time. It really amazes me how people cherry-pick select verses and then completely miss the entire theme of the book.
"now I know why God predestined me to be a Methodist" nice zinger!
As a Calvinist, I agree with this statement. 😁
@@icypirate11 a consistent Calvinist can't agree with this statement..Congradulations my friend , you're free from the Calvinist paradigm..
@@cecilspurlockjr.9421 You're not making any sense. Care you elaborate?
I I'm a Calvinist because of the conviction from the Holy Spirit. I believe there are different theologies and Christian beliefs because of God. God is and was capable to make it clear to all but here we are.
Mark is a Methodist because of the drawing of the Holy Spirit and I'm a Calvinist because of the drawing of the Holy Spirit. God is the sole author of salvation.
@@icypirate11 no my friend , you're not a calvinist by the drawing of THE HOLY SPIRIT ..You are a Christian because of THE HOLY SPIRIT.. .
Also , as far as soteriology there can be but one true doctrine.. Paul plainly states there is only one salvific gospel and anything other than that is a false gospel..
If one teaches limited atonement they teach a false gospel..If one teaches that GOD reprobates people from birth to not be able to believe in CHRIST to be saved then it is a false gospel.. The verses concerning reprobation are plainly displayed in Scripture and not one speaks of GOD reprobating someone from birth my friend.. Therefore to say you believe in unlimited atonement is inconsistent..When total depravity or reprobation from birth is eliminated then Calvinism doesn't exist consistently anymore...
@@cecilspurlockjr.9421 Thank you for elaborating. I respectfully disagree brother.
There is only one true God, only one scripture, and only one way of salvation. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through Jesus Christ. The Gospel message is to believe in Jesus for salvation. You believe you freely chose to do so and I believe God predestined me and drew me to Himself. We are saved by the same Gospel and we both believe in Jesus. We are both convicted by the same Spirit and we both try to study and make sense of what God teaches in His word
We're both right and we're both wrong.
I cannot say everything I believe is 100% correct. I've changed on many unsalvific details over the years. But what doesn't change is the authorship of salvation and my belief in Jesus.
Once you realize that Christians are Christians because of what God has done there is no more internal fighting to the death. I have nothing but love and compassion for you and for what God is doing in your life. I see Jesus in you and your drive to convert others to what you have come to believe and understand. I know that God is the reason you believe and reason for the theological and eschatological views you hold dear. I have come to love His grace all the more. We are so broken even in our belief. God Bless.
It doesn’t matter if I understand every bit of Gods Word(the Bible).......what matters is that I BELIEVE every single word of the Bible is truth.....
If the Bible says “he died for all”.....or “whosoever will”.....then I believe it
If it says that “your name on the Lambs Book of Life before the foundations of the world”....or......”all that the Father has given unto me ....I will lose not one”........or that “the Elect of God shall not be deceived “....then I believe it
It doesn’t matter what I think or any other human thinks ......it only matter what He thinks.....and if it’s in His Holy Word then it true ........if you can’t seem to make the “pieces of the puzzle fit “.......or it seems contradictory....just leave it in Gods hands......go to Him in prayer .....ask Him by faith for a clearer understanding and in his own time of choosing ...He will reveal it to you
But to take one scripture and toss another one away just because it “doesn’t make sense”.....is probably one of the worst things you can do as a Christian
Revelation 13:8
King James Version
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Could it be that every name was written in the Book of Life until they get blotted out because of our choices?
Luke 10:20
Authorized (King James) Version
20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
Revelation 3:5-6
King James Version
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Calvinism is bogus. The Bible does not self-contradict. Just because many of us lack the ability to understand does not mean He contradicts Himself.
The problem with Calvinists is that they do not believe every word of the Bible is truth precisely because they do not understand every bit of God's Word.
@@cmk5724 I think, the worst problem with Calvinists is that they are not at all interested in understanding every bit of God's word. When confronted with questions they know they can't answer, they just say there's no need to know it.
@@molintsui7501 i think the worst problem of calvinism is that they founded their faith in Synod of Dort, and it's foundation is TULIP. Calvinist perverse the scripture to fit some cherry picked verses into T-U-L-I-P.
They have sacrifice the Characters of God in the Bible in defense of their unbiblical philosophy found in TULIP. A holy God, they made into a god who decrees man to sin.
An all-light Gof of no shadow of darkness they make into a monster who will send man to hell without a chance for his own pleasure and glory.
When i asked my mom what Calvinism is when i was 5 years old, i knew right away that Calvinism god is not the God of the Bible..
prevenient grace means "God gives everyone the opportunity to respond to the grace of God"
+Josh Washington We know what it means, where is it written in scripture. I'm always open to learning new things.
+mzimmerman12 Fair request. I don't think it is taught explicitly. It seems to me the whole argument between Calvinists and Arminians on free-will and divine sovereignty is based on imposing a theological grid on the scriptures that its authors did not think in terms of. What do you think?
I think, I try not to call it one doctrine or the other. I just try to believe what it says, and when it tells me that I can't come to Him without Him first drawing me, I believe it....although my human pride likes me to think I had something to do with it. I agree we have free will but scripture quite clearly spells out my will "No one is righteous, no not one,, no one seeks after God, I am dead in my sin...etc
I also believe that whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. But that doesn't negate the fact that you can't call unless He first calls you.
Any animosity I feel between the things I don't know, I am guessing God can figure it out. For me, I'm just trusting the scriptures and going with the fact that I was dead and He revived me, and I get none of the glory, He gets it all. That keeps me humble and less prideful over someone who hasn't believed because it was for the grace of God that I did.
If I had to choose a camp, I'd say the more I learn, the more I lean towards the Calvinist way of thinking. I think it is pretty well backed up by scripture if I don't interject my humanism into the equation.
@@mzimmerman12 were the 12 Apostles Calvinists???👌
Grew up Anglican, so even with all its dismal shortcomings now, at least the groundwork for basing all learning, belief, understanding on scripture was there. I attended many types of calvinistic churches but always found something cold and 'off' with their culture, so digging deeper now, I can see where it might, in reality probably emanates from. Thank you Seedbed and Ben Witherington for this channel and your teaching. It's great to see short concise summaries of these topics also - some are hours too long :)
Our core beliefs shape our reality. There’s no such thing as interpreting Scripture in an unbiased way. We need some guiding principle or principles to guide us, and “What does this tell us about the character of God?” is an excellent one.
People speak of pride with Calvinists....I am a Calvinist (99% anyway) and I often wonder why God saved me? Why? It wasn't because I was good or smart or had just enough faith....what I had known since I was a small kid now somehow struck me at 22 as being beautiful, Jesus was now desirable. I had 'prayed the prayer' many many times....what was now so different about this time? God place into my heart, a love for Himself...that was never ever the case before. Anyways, Calvinists and Arminians are brothers in Jesus, regardless. Even if we don't fully understand what or how our salvation occurred, IF it did occur, then we are brothers!!
I'm predestined to be NEITHER a Calvinist or an Arminian... They are both unsound heresies...
ruclips.net/video/Kqq5mF8FBfY/видео.html
@@jimd9339 Amen!
@@jimd9339 WRONG...
@@hr2r805 Oh, that's deep....very theological... Calvinism is easily debunked with the Bible. Calvin was a heretic. He was a follower of a goofy Catholic! (Augustine)
Thank you. Agreed. However, I would not have used the word "inefficient" in connection with arguing against Calvinism that Jesus died for all. They use that word to argue that God was very efficient in limiting to he died for so he didn't waste his blood. Obviously, God's not about cold mechanical efficiency. He's about providing for all of his creation, whether or not they respond to receive his love
Don't argue, just debate.
Because your commitment to theistic teaching is more important than a careful analysis of the mechanics of the will. I totally understand it, because I was in Seminary before I drummed up the courage to think in those terms, and it was extremely difficult to do, and I didn't come out a Calvinist, I came out independent and on my first real search for truth.
If I’m saved it’s God who was responsible for my salvation not my response or choice.
If I reject him, I’m responsible and will be held accountable in judgment.
I was without God. He sent Jesus. I did nothing!
I was without God. He sent someone to share the Gospel with me. I did nothing!
I was without God. His Word was placed in me by the messenger he sent! I did nothing!
I was without God. His Word started working in me until belief came alive in me. I did nothing.
I was without God. He sent his son. He sent his messenger. They planted the Word in me that produced belief. I did nothing! When Faith and Love came alive in me I couldn’t deny or reject anymore and I found obedience to love opening my mouth in confession of him.
Ex.
God brought my wife into my life and changed me. When she entered my life love came alive in me and I’ve never been the same. Her presence in my life changed my desires, I did nothing. I found something new in me, changing even my desires. Love for her transformed but when Jesus entered my life through the Gospel, his presence transformed me to a greater degree. I did nothing.
I just didn’t reject him or deny him anymore. It wasn’t a choice or a result of choosing to respond. I found my response to his presence irresistible.
I could have rejected him I guess but His Word, The Truth overpowered me, and He Captured my heart. I was defenseless.
He gets All the credit for my Salvation!
Those who reject him and deny the Truth are responsible and will be accountable for rejecting him.
I myself studying theology now and you know what, there are endless arguments about different denominations and their theological viewpoints. That doesn’t make sense why leave that division and live according to what the Bible says..No one can understand God fully to explain Him because He is Almighty.. Theology alone cannot make you a better person but Only a genuine relationship with God and do what He commands you to do daily.
Christ belonged to no drnominInation, in fact his most ardent disagreements were both the political and religious leaders of the day ( the more things change the more they stay the same
Good stuff man. I am a theology major as well. Even though this guy is confused somewhat and is a full BLOWN arminianist, theology can just be too much sometimes. Just live it, man.
Yes!
Theology alone cannot make you a better person..
Reminds me of the saying..
..Jesus didn't come to make bad ppl good..He came to make dead ppl live.
Best Seven Minute Seminary thus far. Way to go Dr Witherington.
Did the Early Church Fathers teach "Calvinism"? Ken Wilson
ruclips.net/video/YTSEh1o8HdE/видео.html
The Bible states Christians are chosen before the foundation of the world. Jesus's high prayer in John 17 stated by Jesus, I do not pray for the world , but for those the Father has given me.
For me, there are a few statements that Calvinists say that I deem as Calvinist logic. "If God atones for everyone's sins, that would lead to universalism and if God punishes those that that do not put their trust in Christ; He would be unjust because Christ's death atoned for their sins." This is just one of them and I don't seem to find much if any scripture to back that up. From all the Bible I've read, it seems to portray 5-point Arminianism.
The doctrine of the elect is severely misunderstood. If God is not sovereign then God is unjust. Who am I to question God's motives. Man is totally and utterly depraved. God chooses man responds, but our response is not free but comes at a price, the blood of Christ. I have heard people say, "I accepted Christ or I decided to choose God." Really, how arrogant and presumptuous. God. Do you not know how God has chosen vessels for honor and dishonor, how can the clay instruct the Potter. We should humbly bend the knee and thank God He had chosen us as His elect. Praise and glory to Christ.
Sovereignty does not mean absolutely unyielding control of every detail. Only in a Calvinist dictionary does it mean that. It’s redefined so that anyone who has an actual understanding of sovereignty- which is more akin to jurisdiction- can be cast from the Kingdom for not believing in that absolutely false version of sovereignty.
I love this video, I visit it periodically. I've had some professors who've tried to ease those 5 points into student's psyches. I'm not omitting the scholarship of Calvin or Luther, but a line of demarcation must be inserted on certain doctrinal perspectives ... now I know why God predestined me to be "non-conformed."
The irresistible grace I find to be deeply troubling as I see Yahweh wanting us to freely choose Him
@@michaelbrickley2443 I did freely choose Him. Meditate on that. Bless you.
Jesus Christ died for all NOT some.
Unfortunately many reject Him.
So why did God let so many people without the gospel until they died??
And for those who reject their sins are punished twice, once on Christ, and once on themselves. That means that God is not just!!!
@@budiasali8879 He is. It is people who are refusing to surrender to Christ by faith.
@@TheLocalChurchExperience you cant explain how He can be just if He punished sins of unbelievers twice!!
@@budiasali8879 That's a consequence MEN chose for themselves.
In the end it comes down to man centered theology and God centered theology. Most find Reformed theology offensive because they want humanity to have free will but according to Scripture they don't when man is spiritually dead in sin (Eph 2:1), no one seeks for God (Romans 3:11) no one does good (Psalm 14:3). If man cannot choose God, then man is dependent upon God for everything that would make TULIP correct, no matter how much you dislike God being in control.
Biblical Christianity
It’s all about the character of God, not whether or not I can boast of having free will.
I believe you’re misunderstanding what it means to be dead in sins. I also believe that you’re extracting something out of Romans 3 that Paul never intended. We need context.
You’re also missing some key points in the context of Psa 14.
We should talk and look at the passages that refute total inability.
Hope to hear from you soon.
God bless
If our response limits the atonement, man is the one who holds the power of salvation not God.
A Calvinist is not the worst thing any of us could be. There are plenty of issues in the UMC currently to keep us busy.
But a cage stage Calvinist would definitely be one of the worst things to be. like many people have been and sadly some die in their cage stagery..
God help us.
Whenever you engage someone who's unwilling to listen to what we believe then it's most likely their calvinistic views are Cage stage Calvinist and they believe calvinism saves.
Such a religion couldn't save you out of a wet paper bag my friend..
God help us never to become sectarian as those who resort to such mindsets.
Calvinism is blasphemy..
Calvinist, Mormon, JW....same camp....cult
@@rettpanda6203
I disagree with you... calvinistic people do however oftentimes come across as cult like and have cultish mindsets and manipulation oftentimes and they focus on their proof texts like Jehovah's witnesses do....but calvinistic people are Christian.
If it's another gospel than it's more dangerous than others and calvinism teaches another gospel my friend.Its just close enough to biblical salvation to trick babes in CHRIST into thinking its the real gospel..When we stand before CHRIST one day would you rather be able to tell him that you tried your best to convince the world that HE didn't die for all , and that most don't even have a chance to be saved because GOD hated them from birth ? Especially in light of mark 16 : 15 thru 16 ? Or would you rather be able to say I was faithful LORD and taught folks that any creature could be saved by YOUR death and resurrection and that you tasted death for every man like YOUR word says..People act so flippant it seems debating these things but that reality of facing CHRIST one day is real and on its way..
He never accounts for the fall and the state of man. Dead, not wounded or stunned in sin. Death needs resurrection. I Christ died for ALL then ALL will be saved. His death and sacrifice is not limited by our will but God's design and purpose.
Stephen Atkins
Death doesn’t need resurrection to believe. It needs resurrection to be reconciled with God and serve Him in Spirit and in truth.
If a Calvinist truly believes his on (heretical) doctrine and TULIP, why in the world would they be trying to convince us that we should also believe as they do. But, then again, to believe in Calvinism one has to give up logic.
I went to GCTS as an Arminian and came out even more Arminian after hearing the Reformed position too. It was a great experience
T Last - You only considered one side if you were taught by Arminians. I have never met an Arminian who correctly portrayed Calvinism.
m1tanker64 Gordon Conwell is reformed. I’m not sure what you are talking about??
m1tanker64 further, I’ve often heard this from calvinists when they are pressed by non-Calvinists to explain the logical inconsistencies of the Calvinistic system. What would you want a non-Calvinist to do to represent your position better?
@@m1tanker64
Sadly, too many Calvinists only hear the Calvinist 'side'.
Also listen to the language we use...ie: "which 'side' are you?"
It's adversarial language. And too many get hooked into the "US vs them mentality, which we all can fall prey to.
I think this is rooted in our Gon given need/desire for justice
@@m1tanker64 I have heard Free will people correctly portray what John Calvin taught. As far as unconditional election doctrine- there are too many variants for a universal descrption. At the heart it means that God predestines those who will go to heave and hell and the person has no power to accept Christ if predestined to hell.
We exist in a soteriological paradox; Calvin leaned exceedingly far toward the para- and Jacobus Arminius leaned even more toward the -dox. I see a continuum betwixt the two where both seem so when somewhat moderated each by the other. I love and honor them both as fathers in the faith. This is a very good video.
It is silly to ignore common teaching scripture and cling to either one. Why is it so hard for some to reconcile that Good chooses and man chooses? That's like trying to get to the bottom of whether you chose your wife or if she chose you; you both did! You're right.
This is very succinct and on point. It doesn't even address a whole other aspect of Calvinism, which is divine determinism, which makes God the author of all sin, including the worst atrocities imaginable.
He is imposing his human thinking on God. God is also a devouring fire.
I'm fairly convinced that if Calvinism had been the original form of the Gospel that had been preached in the immediate aftermath of Jesus' life, death and resurrection that it wouldn't have taken off in the way it did. Frankly, it probably would've been relegated to a more cult-like status in terms of both numbers and influence. Seriously, who would sign-up for a brand new religion being actively persecuted in which there was only a slim chance that you might be in God's favor, a God who seemingly not only permits but utilizes evil acts rather than embodying recognizable love or mercy, but are more than likely made to be cast into eternal torment by no fault of your own regardless of what you do or believe? The good news indeed. Its success feels entirely predicated on the fact it emerged in a world that was already long saturated in Christianity and therefore was then filled with people who were already predisposed to the scriptures being true as a first principle and thus be capable of accepting new variations which claimed there was certain things they needed to do to be more faithful adherents.
Did you say no fault of your own, the bible says, there is not one good, no not even one, all deserve death, the more surprising and
shocking thing is that anyone is saved, every single one deserves death, all fall short of the Glory of God. God never loved Esau, in fact God hated Him. God revived the sinners that were dead in sin. God said who are you to tell me how to make my vessels, I make one for honour and another for dishonour. That's all paraphrased, but you can google them. You don't get to choose, you only get to respond. If Christ died on the cross for the world, you diminish His work on the cross. If God loved everybody there would be no
hell, because His love would conquor all evil, He didn't save trillions of angels that He made and they all get to feel eternal Hell and
they are made higher than men. There are hundreds and hundreds of scriptures that prove Reform Theology, but not everybody can see or comprehend them. God Bless.
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that WHOSOEVER believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.
"Whosoever" = every believing one
The question is what does the Bible teach about the capacity of the will of men.
@@mikeschmoll7762 were made in God's image,that's the capacity of man my friend we have free will and so does God.
@@christdiedforoursins8985 did you ever heard something about the "fall" my friend? We can choose freely, of course but we always choose according to our greatest desires. Those desires were corrupted and distorted at the fall. The results are devastating.
"For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot."
Romans 8:7 ESV
If we were still free (as you said) we would be able to submit to God's law but Paul clearly denies that. (Listen to what Jesus thought about our capacity in John 6,44)
That's the reason why Jesus said,
“Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin."
John 8:34 ESV
And a slave is by definition not free he needs to be set free!
" So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed."
John 8:36 ESV
I'm sorry there is no" free" will in the Bible. A will nonetheless but a depraved one which needs do be redeemed.
@@mikeschmoll7762 for freedom Christ has set us free.I said we are made in Gods image with the free will to choose, were not robots but slaves to sin ,slavery doesn't take away your freewill you are taken captive to obey another's will as a slave, until you come to have faith in Jesus, who set us free from the law of sin and death and defeated the devil by dying in our place,there is freewill yet God still is God , and can do what he pleases ,we have free will in our ability to believe or not believe in Jesus shure God can harden peoples hearts but remember pharaoh hardened his heart before God did.and God has called many but a few are chosen.Any relationship has two wills involved marriage is the example God gave us .God is not a rapist.
@@mikeschmoll7762 Adam and eve chose to disobey God.They were not programmed to disobey him .free will and freedom are different things .no one can take away your freewill .
Excellent job my hillbilly friend. God is LOVE. His number one description of Himself. And if God takes no delight in the death of the wicked, surely He takes no delight in the damnation of the wicked. But in the end justice must be served.
Friend, Isaiah 6 actually says He is “Holy, Holy, Holy.” This is more emphasized than His love, though it is immeasurable as well.
I hold to a Free Grace not an Armenian or Calvinist biblical viewpoint. Eternal security is taught throughout scripture. I write these things so that you may know you have eternal life. Salvation is a free gift.
I'm not Methodist but I love your exegesis. Your study of Romans was a revelation.
I too am no longer Calvinist.
The Bible is a difficult book and needs theologians like you to clarify it.
Peter Jongsma hi. Unsure as to how difficult the Bible can be. Surely don’t need someone to interpret for me. Too much personal ideas can color the interpretation. I read the Word daily for years. I will listed to what others say but pay attention to what God says
@@joer5627 you need the Holy Spirit to guide you to understand the word of God otherwise you are leaning on intellectuality on a spiritual word like the Pharisees and Saducees
But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representative-that is, the Holy Spirit-he will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you.
John 14:26
Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures. Luke 24:45
They asked each other, "Were not our hearts burning within us as He spoke with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?" Luke 24:32
You need the Holy Spirit to understand the scriptures, the Word is alive, and the Holy Spirit wrote the Word; the author is the best Person to explain the Truth to you. He also leads you into all Truth. He also opens your. mind to understanding. Be a good Berean and study this out. You must be born again, and you must also be baptised, and receive the Holy Spirit baptism of Fire! Godbless you according to Ephesians 1:16-18 in the name of Jesus! Amen.
@@J_a_s_o_n I would like to receive the holy Spirit but I'm not sure how to receive it the right way
I appreciate Ben. It would have been nice to have addressed some of the Scriptures that those who believe in Calvin's theology point out.
Check out Leighton Flowers for specific scriptures. He does excellent work in this area.
He said “I didn’t believe before the foundations of the world that God chose.” He’s literally saying he doesn’t not believe Ephesians 1:4. He was quoting Eph 1:4 and says he doesn’t believe it.
If you are a Calvinist, then what if you found out that your son or daughter and is not chosen by God but rather predestined not to go to heaven but rather to hell. Would you respect God's sovereignty? or you will beg to God to save your children whom He did not elected in the first place?
Where in Scripture are we taught to discern if someone is saved or not? We can only assume someone's salvation, friend.
Rock on! I don't understand how this isn't more commonly understood.
open theism is the only conclusion that can be reached with this. Either God uphold (controls) everything or he controls nothing. You can't have both. This man's appeal is to emotion rather than logic
Joe Momma
This is a false dichotomy there are other more nuanced options on both sides of these issues.
On the Calvinist end for God to be sovereign it is not necessary for God to have determined and immediately control and effectually plan and cause every moment of every atom and thought.
On the Arminian end, for men to have free agency and God to give conditional atonement, it is not necessary for men’s will to supersede God’s will, God’s will can still be effectually sustained, worked, and established even if men have free agency to make choices that he would not desire them to do.
@@Jondree This is model you have proposed here is very similar to Molinism which puts man in a mode of cooperative partnership with the omnipotence of deity- which is in itself against everything that scripture expounds. Romans 9 leaves no room whatsoever for any rogue molecule inside the God which we move and have our being.
Logically, God cannot be the author of evil, which He is, according to Calvinist doctrine. If we have no agency, whatsoever, then we are not guilty of sinning. God is is causing us to sin and rebel. God wants us to sin. God takes pleasure in casting His children into Hell. That, brother, is illogical, and contradicts what Christ taught us.
@@BPond7 God is not the author of evil. He however is the publisher of Evil. Isaiah 45:7
I’m non denominational and so is God/Jesus.
I now try to keep the wheat and discard the chaff of both calvinism (God can but won't save everyone) arminianism (God wants to save all but Can't...). GOD is Love and Sovereign - Ephesians 1 and 1 Timothy 2:4 and 4:10, 1 John 2:2
Very good teaching. God is light. In Him there is no darkness.
Interesting. Up until I was about 7 years old we attended the Methodist church. My dad and all his family were Methodists but my mom had been raised Baptist. She and her brother eventually convinced my dad to switch to the Baptist church. I remember there were lots of discussions at that time about the differences in the two churches. The main point that I remember being discussed was that Methodists believed that we should be sprinkled while Baptists believed that we should be immersed. The other thing was the eternal security question. My dad was a steward in the Methodist church but when he became Baptists he became a deacon.
Jesus Christ was immersed so we don't have to go anywhere else.
You, sir, make me smile 😊 I realize that this has been out in the interwebs for neigh on a DECADE 😯 Still, I want you to know, that today, June 22, 2024, I see it as a gift from God 🎁
I initially held Witherington's position, but I realized that I was being illogical.
If it's true that before the foundation of the world God only chose some to be holy and predestined them to adoption (Eph. 1:4-5), then it's implied that He chose the rest to be unholy and that He predestined them out of adoption.
The God of the Bible knows all things. If He knew the people who would reject Him, why did He not plan a salvation method that included them? The fact that He didn't implies that His salvation wasn't directed at everyone.
Jesus: *_"You did not choose Me, but I chose you."_* (John 15:16)
If God's preassignment of our response makes God unloving, then was Christ being unloving there?
Making an unrefusable offer isn't unloving. It ensures that the offer will work. If God extended a refusable invitation to people that He intended to save, then the invitation is myopic (incompatible with omniscience) and even irresponsible.
We have to imagine the potential for each person, regardless of how anti-Christian they might appear.
God favorites no one. God's election doesn't discredit His fairness. His worthiness of worship comes from the fact that He allowed every creation to exist (Rev. 4:11). Thus He is perfectly just.
Whereas all humanity deserve Hell, God mercifully spares the repentant (Rom. 9:22). His mercy doesn't give the spared the permission to demand Him to spare the rest.
By creating vessels of wrath, God is able to secure a way for Him to demonstrate His patience (Rom. 9:22). By creating vessels of mercy, God is able to secure a way for Him to demonstrate His glory (Rom. 9:23).
Are we humble enough to accept the value of these demonstrations? Or are we going to say that saving creations is more important than respecting the creator's decisions?
God desires everyone to come to know the truth (1 Tim. 2:4) and repent (Acts 17:30). But this didn't cause God to eliminate Hell. If He truly wanted to save all souls, couldn't He just abrogate eternal punishment? But since this isn't the case, we can deduce that God's desire for justice (to punish all darkness) supersedes His desire for sparing the unrepentant.
*_"...who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, 'Why did you make me like this,' will it?"_* (Rom. 9:20)
Did He plan our salvation without intending to succeed? Is that responsible?
Let us reason together (Isaiah 1:18).
Like your comments here.
We have to humble our selves on to what God does in the world. Not trying to understand it but accepting it. That is why we pray for people to be save because we plain a simple do not know. It is by him that we are save and not because of ourselves. That is what the bible teaches.
What do you think about 1 Timothy 2:6?
@@reconnaissanceman1547 All people (Jews and Gentiles). If he died for "all" or every person, there would be no guilty person, and no need to talk of hell.
Scott Caraway That’s illogical. God died for all in order to give everyone the opportunity to be saved.
It's all about God's character.
And free choice
Amen!
My issue with calvinism is it makes the gospel irrelevant to salvation the basis of Salvation would be the eternal calling of God rather than the hearing of the gospel
Dear brother Ben, I appreciate your frank confession to a Methodist, and not a Calvinist, but after fify years as a Christian decided to abandon denominational affiliations and come to the bible as a little child taught by the Holy Spirit , and for the last five years I have studied every word of the bible in its local and canonical context in a similar was that Ivan Pavin studied from linguistic numercy aspect, My greatest discovery is that our creator is a moral God, and I have been writing a book about His character for five years, if you are interested is sharing this with me at times let me know, yours in Christ James Bertam
Mostly a commentary on why he feels or thinks something rather than believing the word of God. I will stick with what God tells me in His word over pride in my personal opinions. I am no Calvinist; I am a disciple of God.
By God's grace I was given faith to believe His revealed truth and can now respond in good works as Jesus created me for before time (Ephesians 2:8-10). I can have no claim to deserving this gift or choosing it, for than I could boast of it over my unrepentant neighbor. But I will continue to proclaim this good news to the nations and pray the Holy Spirit will give new life to all those that hear.
Also I find no no condemnation for brothers and sisters that may have incorrect interpretation of this doctrine (even if that is myself), so please know I say this in love and trust of God's redemptive power.
Soli Deo gloria
Amen!
If you did not choose to receive this gift of salvation was it not received "irresistibly" and "unconditionally"?
@@KnightTemplar1000 If I understand your question correctly, yes this gift of faith was graciously and unconditionally given to me by God, and I had no prerogative or power to resist this mercy.
Dr Ben is spot on. The thing about Calvinists is:they say that those that are against it, 'dont understand Calvinism'. When non Calvinists explain their understanding Calvinism and refute it with Scripture, Calvinists respond by ad hominem attacks. Calvinism can be destroyed so many ways that Scripture has to be totally ignored to embrace it. Reformed theology indeed. Meh.
Fred Ost
Yup, you're 100% correct. I was a Calvinist for 20yrs. I could argue every single doctrinal point. But when I left Calvinism, all of a sudden Calvinists started to say *"You must not have understood Calvinism if you left it."*
The arrogance is astounding. I never said such things to non Calvinists when I was a Calvinist.
@@tessw9744 What were the reasons for your leaving?
Shipwreck of faith is not loss of salvation
I enjoy listening to Dr. Ben Witherington so much. I hope to attend Asbury someday.
I'm not a Calvinist either but I absolutely believe that a genuinely born again believer in Jesus can never lose their salvation . A shipwrecked faith in context is referring to Paul's ministry and that he never wanted to lose credibility among those he shared the Gospel with , it has nothing to do with losing ones salvation . Then let's not forget the oft misused verses in Heb. 6 and Heb. 10 which have nothing whatsoever to do with losing ones salvation and are instead imploring Jews to fully partake of the New Covenant and leave the Old Covenant once and for all .
I'm not a Calvinist and I don't think you can lose your salvation, either.
There are scores of verses in the Bible that say you can. Salvation is a conditional promise. .......... "So you must remain faithful to what you have been taught from the beginning. If you do, you will continue to live in fellowship with the Son and with the Father (1 John 2:24, emphasis mine)." And, "For if we are faithful to the end, trusting God just as firmly as when we first believed, we will share in all that belongs to Christ (Hebrews 3:14)."
Hi. I think you can lose your salvation. However, if you don't wilfully spurn and reject Christ after you are born again then it is impossible because He will never leave you or forsake you. I think the only way you can lose your salvation is if you become reprobate
JohnW Right on John. It's ok to not be a Calvinists or to be one. It's not ok to be without Christ as your Lord and Savior and to die in your sins.
@@JohnQPublic11 your quoted verses does not deal with salvation but with faith. Try again.
3:20 This is 1 of the verses, in my ❤ & mind, that's extremely clear. I struggled w/ this immediately as I was being indoctrinated into the false teaching, wacky interpretations of scripture, & the trend/fad of claiming to be a Calvinist.
"Calvinism" is simply true Biblical Christianity. It is not wacky interpretations but is based on comparing scripture from scripture.
I don't like people calling themselves Calvinists because Calvin was a man, but the theology known as Calvinism is true.
There are some so called Calvinists who do appear prideful and are harsh in their judgment, but that has nothing to do with what scripture teaches.
@@willp.8120there should be no such thing called "Calvinism" that should tell you it's not biblical but Calvin's approach and misunderstanding of scripture
@@oscarholley891 You're wrong, but I am not in the mood to discuss right now.
People cannot comprehend God. There are two parallel truths and one is the sovereignty of God and man's freewill. Even though they seem to be contradictory they are both equally true. God doesn't want any to be lost, Christ died for the sins of the whole world, the call is to whosever will and yet it is all God's election, it is not of ourselves, no one comes to Christ that are not drawn to Him by God, God gives us repentance, faith, forgiveness, salvation and yet we must work out our own salvation and yet it is God working in us. We can accept it but we can never comprehend it. The main thing is that we should do our part in living a life of faith towards God
TULIP was not put forth by Jean Calvin. Hence using TULIP as an argument against Calvinism is based on a false premise. TULIP is an insufficient summation or attempt to codify Calvin's Augustinian theology [actually, an attempt to summarize conclusions arising from the 1618-1619 Synod of Dort]. Methodism and Arminus elevate man's choosing God over God choosing man. So who is actually Sovereign in that line of thinking? Is it not written "Jacob I loved but Esau I hated (Romans 9:13). That being said, I do enjoy Dr. Witherington's perspectives on Biblical exegesis. That's what makes practical or Biblical theology so important. Systems can lead to division and confusion. Attributes foreign to our LORD.
Great video. Every word is a powerful defense of the TRUE gospel and nature of God. Thank you for all you do.
Very Excellent ! Exactly 👏👏👏 God is 'Love'... an noun. Yes! If one reads 1 Cor. 13 and substitutes 'God' for Love throughout the Chapter you get a very wonderful depiction of God than the portrait which Augustinian/Calvin/Reformed doctrine paints. Unfortunately, so many who leave both Calvinism and Christianity throw out God instead of that portrait. This is also why so many atheist's describe their understanding of God, which they reject, in Calvinistic terms. It happens all the time.
There is no verse in the Bible which in proper context which clearly says; "all men are BORN unable to respond positively to God or the Gospel" It is Calvinism's "missing link" and without it their preferred definition of "Total Depravity=Total Inability" which their system presupposes and requires it collapses into the sinking sand upon which it was built.
Calvinism naturally leads to the non existence of apostasy. Yet, the OT and NT are replete with warnings against apostasy. To believe in Calvinism, you’d have to believe that god intentionally brought up a church they call heresy (the Catholic Church) in order to spark a reformation 1500 years later.
Depends on what type of Calvinism you subscribe to. Those churches aren’t saved in a sense since they are apostates.
I think if someone becomes an apostate you never really knew God because in a sense you’re claiming God wasn’t enough so therefore you rebel against Him when we know this isn’t true.
I am a calvinist but I love your work.
If I heard the gospel and wanted to get right with God can I be saved by his grace? How do I know if I'm elect... I'm scared to go to hell
@@yourshingingnovaedits394 You don’t that is something completely out of your control and is entirely dependent on God. When you turn to Christ as a result of God not a result of yourself. That is basically my view.
I think a lot of Armenians or non-Calvinists think of the elect as this some sort of like selective elitist group chosen by God. I think that is the wrong way of looking at things. If you want a great exclamation and rundown of calvinist theology I recommend R.C. Sproulruclips.net/video/NH3a874RcNo/видео.htmlsi=pU-0TfgEP_ycFb7x
@@yourshingingnovaedits394brotha, you are saved once you put your faith on his finished work…it’s Easy. Calvinism and works based Salvationist are heretics. You CAN BE SAVED. And you wanting it shows you Are already.
@@yourshingingnovaedits394well, according to calvanism you cant and wont respond to imthe gospel unnless ur called by God to election. You can't even want it. So if you're responding... ur elect.
My advice is repent and believe in the gospel, and keep chasing Jesus.
Proverbs 3:5 KJV
[5] Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Romans chapter nine is plain enough for a third grade student to understand that there are only to categories namely elect and reprobate
Vessels of Mercy Honour
Vessels of Wrath dishonour
With Grace
Without Grace
But what’s the point of the book of proverbs if god has already elected who is saved and who is not? If certain people are already dammed, why do they even have the opportunity to read it and not do it? Why would god make people predetermined to reject his word?
If you believe God is omniscient and omnipresent, it is quite literally impossible to 'not' be predestined. And since the scriptures tell us that God knew us before He formed us in the womb, this only validates that point.
Now, I am not saying the 'eternal' dissolves the 'temporal'...merely that God knew who would be saved before the earth was formed, and I am okay with and bow to said Sovereignty.
fanuvgamez. It is not to say God knew each individual... Could be that He knew that the Elect would first belong to Israel, and later to Jesus.
@Kevin Wayne
who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,
2 Timothy 1:9 ESV
@Kevin Wayne was God then gambling "not knowing" who would be saved?
Why would god give someone an offer they can’t refuse and then have them read a book telling them the things they should and shouldn’t do? Calvinism is destroyed with this point. What’s the point of giving us laws and rules and guidance if you are already saved or damned no matter what?
Excellent post. Thank you. I'm saving this.
I can’t imagine limited atonement but i don’t know the answer so I’m going to have faith like a little child. Lol
Check out Smyrna Christian Church, Just Thoughts studies, Eagle's wings ministries, The shepherds chapel 💖💪😇🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Thanks Ben for you easy going, yet scholarly manner as a teacher.
People resist God by nature, that's why Jesus came to seek and save those who were lost.
How can you lose something that isn’t earned? By not doing a certain work? If salvation depends on works in order to be kept then it isn’t given by grace. And if it’s given by grace then it depends not on works. Romans 11. True salvation is eternal security the moment of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. To say otherwise I feel undermines the saving grace of God.
Amen, brother! So refreshing! What you say just fits scripture, plain and simple. I think Calvinist have over intellectualized some parts of scripture without taking the gospel together as a whole. I think the challenge for us is understanding that God knows all and knows the future but from our perspective the scripture is telling us we have free will and need to willingly come to Christ…but God already knows the outcome so that’s a difficult idea for us to reconcile
Amen! I like those three Ls. 😃
Ben, this is because many are called, but few are chosen.
Hell is forever --- don't be guilty of questioning HIS ways.
HE will do ALL HIS ways in HIS WAY
God is soverign and we have free will....we will not understand the hidden council of God, but scripture clearly teaches EVERYTHING is under God's soverign control. We all are under the federal ship of Adam and dead in our trespasses and sins. The amazing GRACE is that he chose any of us because we all deserve NOTHING!
Ruth:
If God is love, why did He create any unelect?
Josh:
Are you a Calvinist?
If you're not, I'm not sure we have anything to disagree about.
And who does he choose? It's not a mystery, the new covenant elect are those that believe
YHWH. ADoNai. Absolute Sovereign. Done.
VOSGL:
If God is love, why did He create any unelect?
His sovereignty isn't the issue, it is His character and specifically the notion that He "is love."
Arminianism puts YOU at the center of Your Salvation.
Calvinism put JESUS at the center of your Salvation.
Arminianism puts your Salvation in your hands to keep and maintain or you'll lose it.
Calvinism puts your Salvation Safely in the Hand of God of which JESUS said no one can snatch you out of, not even yourself.
God doesn't un-Save someone whom He's promised to give Eternal Life.
Believing you can lose your Salvation once you've Been Born Again is to believe that God is a Liar and
His Holy Spirit weak.
If you could Save your Self by your own Actions, JESUS' death on the Cross was unnecessary.
Arminians believe you're Saved because YOU accepted JESUS. Calvinist believe you're Saved because JESUS accepted you.
I think you’re getting tripped up in your view. Arminians believe in free will, that is, putting one’s faith in the saving claims of Jesus. That is why Christianity is a faith, isn’t it? It’s not a self centred thing as you claim. One responds to God’s saving Grace, NOT our own.🙂
@@rosspfeffer5185 How is that you have Faith in Jesus?
Who is this guy? I’ve read many books and agree with many of the reformed scholars ( Sproul, MacArthur, etc…) who’ve dedicated years and years of study. I’ll stand by them and Calvinism. It’s so very obvious.
Your choice where you stand, yet reformed theology is demonic! Make wise decisions and consider where conclusions lead .
@@jimmyray5524 Any who BELIEVE/ Have faith, are predestined /adopted. in Jesus
Jimmy, do you deny your ability to choose to believe and trust Jesus and instead trust in a pre world election/ lottery? Jimmy you have a choice.
*Why Would Jesus* *Die For Some and* *Not All?*
*Because the Father* *Knows Who Will* *Accept Salvation and* *Who Will Reject* *Jesus' Sacrifice For* *All, Some Start their* *Labor at the Eleventh* *Hour Yet Recieve the* *Same Wage a Penny*
*Matt20:6*
If (prevenient) grace is resistible, then God doesn't really save. He just offers salvation (and not very persuasively in the case of those who refuse it). It's like a ship that sees a man drowning a mile or two off in a stormy sea, stops, and calls to the man to swim over, as opposed to a ship that, seeing a man drowning a mile off, makes its way through the stormy sea and actually hauls him on board.
Sorry, what you are describing is synergism. I just don't buy it.
I do not read John 1 2:2 in a manner to imply that Christ's sacrifice was not effectual for anyone for whom it was intended. My suggestion does not imply that salvation comes in any other way than by grace through faith in Christ's salvific work. In this whole matter I follow the over-all drift of Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, and Calvin rather than Arminius.
Amen
Just because the genuine offer of salvation and mercy to all men is resistible in no ways takes away from the fact that God alone saves.
And your swimming analogy, as has been shown, is a caricature of the Arminian position. The Biblical (Arminian) perspective of faith is always opposed to works, and yet is the act of the agent.
A better analogy would be to say that the ship (God) grabs the man at sea ("draws all men to himself", "offers salvation to all men") and yet the man can resist the free salvation ("why do you resist the Holy Spirit?")
I do not caricature the Arminian position. I have read Olsen's book, "Arminianism: Myths and Realities," and also his book "Against Calvinism," and I have also read some of the primary source materials: I think i understand how the Arminian system works with regard to divine grace and human free will. It still seems like semi-Pelagianism to me, even if as minimally so as possible. To use Arminius' own words, salvation is not an "omnipotent act" of God's, but a "gentle and sweet persuasion (lenem et suavem suasionem) appropriate (congruam) to the free will" of each sinner. But the decisive act in salvation lies not with God, but with the sinner, who must choose -- by an act of his own grace-prepared yet still fallen will -- to co-operate with God. God's success depends on the sinner : if the sinner chooses to yield to God's "gentle and sweet" persuasion, God's achieves his (alleged) purpose. If the sinner chooses to resist God, then God fails to achieve his (alleged) purpose. But grant that God does call a sinner by a persuasion perfectly appropriate to that sinner's soul (e.g., at a time and place and in a manner that God believes, or rather, presumably, knows, that the sinner will assent / yield to it). How does the sinner resist it? And how does God, intending to save the sinner, using all his "gentle and sweet persuasion", and using it in a manner absolutely appropriate to the soul in question -- how does God, acting in such a way, fail to win the sinner's assent? Because, presumably, and indeed as Arminius himself says in the passage quoted above, God chooses not to save sinners by an "omnipotent act." But, since God's omnipotence is the attribute by which God brings his will to pass, then, if God does not use his omnipotence to save any sinners, then it cannot be God's purpose to save any sinners . For, by limiting his power, as Arminius says he does, God in fact runs the risk of saving no one, for how does God know that ANY sinner, by use of his fallen will, will yield to his "gentle and sweet persuasion"? And if this is so, then Christ's sacrifice runs the risk of saving no one, and might in fact fail to save anyone. Following this line or reasoning, Arminianism seems to collapse into nonsense. But even if this line of reasoning can be overcome, there remains a whole panoply of other serious issues that undermines it.
When I researched Calvin the man in Geneva, I was shocked at the brutality and micro-control he brought to Geneva. So mystifying how the Geneva city council declared Calvin's word to be God's word!! Study John Wesley and its very apparent there is a huge gulf of difference between the two in how they lived their lives and dealt with their fellow creations. Night and day, black and white.
That's funny.
"We're praying you'll get those 5 points."
In calvinism whatever anyone's says or does, believes anything or not believing anything is pre-determined.
They don't REALLY believe what they claim.
I struggle with times when a Calvinist asks another why Calvinism bothers them so much even more than worrying g whether it is scripturally true. If someone ever asked me why I have so much trouble with the idea of it, the answer is an emotional one, But being emotional does not invalidate it. I just can’t be happy with my own salvation if so many I know and love do not believe and more importantly cannot believe because God does not want them, and they cannot do anything about it. The idea of it behind true gives me a Lovecrafian dread and a sense of hopelessness for otherwise good people who are not allowed to believe the correct set of beliefs.
So man is not dead in trespasses and sin, and really is able to seek God - even though the Word of God says that NO ONE seeks after God? How does a man "born-himself-again"? And how can a man get "un-born-again"? Does God then put back in the man the heart of stone - and is it the same one, he - God - took out? And does he then keep the heart of flesh - the one he put into the man, after removing the one of stone - and use it again, when the man - by his free will, of course - decides to give Jesus another chance? These are just some of the questions I have to Arminianism, which makes no biblical sense whatever.
Eyðfinn Bjarnastein .... We are born sinless, and "choose" (at some point) to sin....thereby becoming seperated from God. It is at this point that we need the free gift of salvation that comes by grace alone...through faith alone.
Then what does David - a man after God´s own heart - mean, when he says: Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. (Psalm 51:5)? And Paul, when he says: There is none righteous, no, not one - etc. (Romans 3:10 etc.)? None, and, no, not one is quite clear. And again: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23)? Is it with or without distinction in the "all" there?
Eyðfinn Bjarnastein ... Psalm 51!
Perhaps one of the most misunderstood, and certainly, the most misquoted from context verses.
David was writing a song. That is the first clue to the context of what he is saying. In that song, he is confessing to God that his (David's) sin, was too much for him to bare, and that he needed forgiveness.
To that end, David uses imagery to convey his recognition that he is a complete sinner, and that God alone is holy, and able to forgive Him.
Let's consider a few of David's claims from Psalm 51:
1.) Against You (God) alone, have I sinned.
Really?
Did he not sin against Bathsheba? Surely he sinned against her husband (killing him)?
2.) Before David was even born ... "he sinned"
Really?
Did he somehow manage to transcend time and space and sin before he was even born?
Consider another one of David's "songs" -- Psalm 58:3:
"The wicked are estranged from the womb;
They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies."
Now tell me, are you prepared to suggest that when we are born ... the very moment we are born ... we not only speak, but are telling lies?
Surely you recognize, that David is using poetic licence to make a point---just like songwriters today, who talk about "reaching the stars" for someone.
So then, to build a theology which teaches babies are born SINNERS out of verses like Psalm 51, is to make the mistake of Augustine who never really recanted his Gnostic background, but instead, misunderstood this passage.
Eyðfinn Bjarnastein ... As for Paul's comments (Romans 3:10/ Romans 3:23 there are "none righteous" ... and ... "all have sinned") ... again, we must be careful to apply context to to our exegesis and hermeneutic of these statements.
You ask ... "Is it with or without distinction in the "all" there?"
Yes/No is my response.
Let me ask you, are you prepared to be so inclusive in the meaning of "all" as to include Jesus? Surely not.
So again, we are left to read such comment in context.
It is clear that the sin of "Adam" brought sin and the impact of living in a fallen world upon ALL mankind. Even Jesus Himself, lived under the influence of sin.
However, where Augustine (and Calvinism) err, is to suggest that there is some "Spiritual genetic condition" that passes seminally into the DNA of every child born.
This simply, is not only indefensible from Scripture, it is ludicrous.
Original sin, implies we are all under the curse of a fallen state. Not that we are BORN sinners. Such an idea is refuted over and over by the Bible, when read in context.
I certainly am suggesting that God looks at the heart and if he says in his Word that we tell lies from the very beginning - then that is the truth. - for the intent of man’s heart is evil from his youth (Gen 21:8b) -
And I do understand the poetic nature of the Psalms - but that does not do away with the facts of the matters being addressed therein.
It is obvious that Jesus is not included in the "all" statement - otherwise he could not be God and could save nobody - For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. (Hebr 4:15).
Nevermind Augustine and Calvin - what does the Word of God say is what is important:
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned- for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. (Rom 5:12-15).
It says nowhere in the Bible that there is a point in time, where human beings become sinners - on the contrary. We sin because we are sinners - we don´t become sinners by sinning; again because you can´t become something you already are.
I have yet to see a prooftext for the argument that people become sinners by sinning at some point in time in their existence.
This articulation of Calvinism is a straw man, and I am not sure Dr. Ben Witherington accomplishes defeating his straw man.
Jared Pomeroy Well not Calvinist holds double predestination or superlapsarian. Methodists teach prevenient grace, which irresistibly frees the will of persons to choose Christ, who apart from that grace wouldn't want to be saved, an offer you can't refuse. He also never deals with Dr. Thomas Schreiner's all without distinction, as opposed to all without exception, distinction. Anybody who thinks that this issue can be dealt with in 6 minutes, and I sure Dr. Witherington doesn't think that, misses the the issue totally.
+Sean Richmond I would first like to submit that all predestination in the calvinist sense is practically double predestination, because the result is always the same. It always ends with people having no choice in the matter and either burning for eternity or being irresistibly pulled to paradise. Whether God deliberately elects or simply passes over those predestined to hell makes no difference. If they go to hell, they were not elect in Christ, and so the word-softening of some Calvinists who only acknowledge a positive decree to predestine men to Christ is of no effect on the result. All predestination results in double predestination.
I think there are some good critical questions to be asking here, such as; Why does the Devil "prowl about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour" if God has already done his work for him and elected the majority of humanity to hell? God has outdone him in his job, and he need not try if he knows his work is cut out for him.
God "is not willing that any should perish, but for all to come to repentance". How do you reconcile this with predestination, which says he IS willing that some should perish, that though he can save them, he won't?
Why would Jesus cry as he did over Jerusalem's unwillingness to repent? "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing!" What crocodile tears are these when Jesus, the world's greatest actor, weeps over those he has irresistibly elected to everlasting burnings?
Answer me these, and I'll have a hundred more of the like to ask. This lie of predestination MUST be engaged with truth. It destroys everything beautiful about the Gospel, and is really another gospel entirely. I don't mean to say I know what all the passages concerning predestination mean, but whatever it is, it is certainly not the Calvinist understanding!
Precisely. I laugh when Calvinists say they don't hold to double predestination when, IN REALITY, their belief still results in double predestination. And I always like to end these conversations with, "well I was predestined to not believe in Calvinism and you were predestined to believe in Calvinism so let's do what we were predestined to do and agree to disagree". :)
Thankyou
This just raises more questions for me because f you reject the doctrine of election and God's sovereignty, does this mean even God himself doesn't know who's going to be saved in the end? And does this mean that man's free will can thawert God's plans?
Mankind doesn't have free will. God chooses some, his chosen, or elect by grace and draws us to him leading to belief and confession and salvation. We may think we have free will, but it is God doing it all.
God knows who is going to be saved because he specifically created them for that purpose to be glorified on the last day, established before the world began.
You cannot thwart God's plans. He is sovereign, and everything he wills happens.
@@willp.8120 It's hard to disagree with this, my desire is for autonomy which tends to cloud my reading of scripture, but if I let the text speak for itself then this is what it seems to teach, that God elects those he saves, it wasn't me after all.
@@mpalmer22 I used to believe in free will, but after being told by my brother that there was no such thing, I searched the scriptures relating to predestination and God's calling, as well as chosen. It is apparent that if we had free will, then scripture would not make sense. My issue before was that I was unaware of some key verses and without knowing them, I could make sense of free will, assuming that it was there, even though the Bible never mentions it. However, being exposed to more scripture, the only thing it could be is that we have no free will. After all, the Bible talks of being chosen before the foundation of the world. It mentions that those who hear are his sheep. It points out that he hardens the hearts of those who do not come to him. This doesn't mean that a current unsaved person won't come to him, but for those who don't before death it is because He has hardened their hearts so that they cannot believe and they never will. He doesn't draw them to Himself. He only does so for the chosen. Those He has chosen will never perish. Those in Christ will not experience a second death.
The thing you need to do is drop your desire autonomy and submit completely to what God clearly says in his word. I am not saying that you aren't saved, but I think truly saved people who hold onto free will continue to experience wrestlessness until they let go of trying to keep some autonomy. This is why I think that we can have blessed assurance in Christ, because it isn't about us. It is Him holding us because he will not lose a one. If a saved person thinks that they have to hold on to their salvation by not sinning, then this is going to limit the freedom you feel in Christ. It doesn't mean that you can continue practicing sin for the rest of your life, for the Holy Spirit will convict you and set you straight. It is, however, submitting to we can't do anything to keep our salvation, and when you do that it is truly freeing.
I wish the best for you.
Anything that teaches a born again believer can "lose" salvation is heresy.
Totally agreed
"THE MOST HIGH RULETH IN THE KINGDOM OF MEN, AND GIVETH IT TO WHOMSOEVER HE WILL" (DANIEL 4:17)
John Stewart dotheth he?
please quote the whole chapter in context.
Interesting that these kind of videos talk about how the more they study Calvinism the more they reject it while the more I watch these videos the more I embrace and feel confident in Calvinism.
cults are difficult to leave, you’re entrenched so much in this systematic , only turning to Jesus will save you, your choice .
@@truthseeker5698 yeah I can’t take people like you seriously.
@@kyloooooo your choice. You’ve been witnessed to. Turn to Jesus
@@truthseeker5698 you assume much. I did, thanks to God who is the author of all salvation, not man. Leave your man centered cult that robs God of salvation and elevates spiritually dead men, and turn to the Christ of the Bible.
@@kyloooooo Your loss, …. keep the satan smiling ,the satans very pleased with you
So, an extremely intellectual man is saying he disagrees with a theological system, but will not say why and misses to quote a passage of Scripture, all to remain a Methodist/Wesleyan and to not change what he had learned.
Most would call me a Calvinist, but I think of myself as a disciple of Paul the Apostle and his letters. Normally, John Calvin is thought of as the primary founder of what we call Calvinism, but he is only one in a multitude of theologians who ascribe to Reformed Theology. Using Calvin's commentary on Romans (Chapter 9), place it along side of Paul's letter to Rome, and it can be seen that Calvin followed Paul's message without deviation. The main reason someone is not a "Calvinist" is that they have either ignored a huge amount of Scripture, or have twisted the Scripture to mean something else because they didn't like what it said.
Yeah right.
😂😂💦😂
It causes me literal pain as to how bad his exegesis of scripture is and to how bad he misunderstands the 5 points of Calvinism.
For every "point/argument/reason" he gave, I had about 5-10 verses to refute him.
I believe he's wrong. But why would it matter how many prooftexts you can pull out? That's extremely shallow, and they could do the same thing.
What is this e exegesis y'all talk about, other than a naturalistic approach of bible explanation and interpretation? It's Bible interpretation minus The Holy Spirit
The N.T. was originally written in Greek not English as this mistaken man so eloquently suggests. I say, Calvinism is a revelation from God.
Calvin was instrumental in getting Servitus executed.
Does that sound like a Christian act?
No matter what spin they put on it, calvin told the theocratic state authorities where to find him.
@@shredhed572 Michael Servetus was a criminal.
Acts 2:38 still the promise of the Father this side of the cross.
5 point Calvinism is the best framework for universal salvation I’ve ever come across
Amen THAT... 🖒 ...
It seems to me that Limited Atonement alone would disqualify Calvin’s doctrine from representing universal salvation.
All debates aside, Jesus said that salvation is in knowing God and Jesus Christ whom He sent. It doesn’t get any more beautiful or universal than that.
@@touchofgrace3217 yes but Calvin not anyone else knows how large a group the elect is
*nor
You will become a Calvinist in heaven dear brother. There you will see that God was behind it all. With respect.
You are certainly a good Methodist.
I was raised Methodist but once I learned about John Wesley's Holiness theology and influence on Pentecostalism, and then read his letter to his brother Charles doubting belief in God, I was completely out.
Yes! Thank you!
scripture clearly decides against human will in choosing God.
“The heart is more deceitful than all else
And is desperately sick;
Who can understand it?
“I, the Lord, search the heart,
I test the mind,
Even to give to each man according to his ways,
According to the results of his deeds.
- Jeremiah 17:9-10
as it is written,
“There is none righteous, not even one;
There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
- Romans 3:10-12
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
- Romans 3:18
Augustine soundly pointed out Pelagius’ error, so did Luther to Erasmus and the Synod of Dort put the Remonstrants in their place.
Tell me how does dead man choose God!
And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
- Ephesians 2:1
But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
- Ephesians 2:4-5
Or a bond slave who is regenerated.
For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.
- Romans 11:32
But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.
- Galatians 3:23
for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.
- Romans 7:11
So, Let me get this straight, Ben Witherington tells us he has set aside all this Scriptural verses to vend semi Pelagianism and cast aspersions at Augustine, Luther, Calvin, the Puritans, Edwards, Whitfield and Spurgeon.
Who should I believe for my doctrine?
Calvinism as you have described it is founded solely on reading scripture out of context, without a knowledge of the first century. Calvinism projects middle age sensibilities onto a text written from a completely different point of view.