Is being white and vegan racist?
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- Опубликовано: 15 ноя 2023
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TODAY'S VIDEO:
In today's video, I dive into the argument that being white and vegan is intrinsically racist. To do so, I respond to the claims made about unethical crop farming, the production of plant foods in the Global South and the wider insinuations that this argument makes. So is white veganism problematic or racist?
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SOURCES:
New documentary 'The Smell of Money':
www.smellofmoneydoc.com/
The Problem with White Veganism Article:
/ the-problem-with-white...
Articles on quinoa farming:
www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/...
www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/...
Quinoa study:
webapps.towson.edu/cbe/econom...
Air pollution from animal farms kills around 13,000 people a year:
www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas...
Animal products use 83% of all farmland:
www.science.org/doi/10.1126/s...
Ten times more land is used for animal products in the US:
www.bloomberg.com/graphics/20...
Most UK farmers are white:
news.sky.com/story/why-farmin...
Thai seafood slavery:
www.theguardian.com/global-de...
Exploitation and child labour in tanneries:
www.theguardian.com/world/201...
Black vegans are the fastest growing vegan demographic in the US:
www.abcactionnews.com/news/in...
Whole-foods plant-based diets are the cheapest diets:
www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-...
www.thelancet.com/journals/la...
Sign up to my free workshop here/pre-order How to Argue With a Meat Eater: howtoarguewithameateater.com + let me know in the comments what arguments you want me to tackle from both the left and the right.
I hope that this book will help you in arguing with meat eaters. something like that would really come in handy.
so, for every argument presented, you state that vegans are in the vast minority and therefore exempt from any responsibility. have no fear - it'll stay that way.
How do you argue with anti-vegans who reject any study you throw at them? Implying there is some massive vegan agenda at harvard medical school or other medical institution?
Any plans for an audiobook of the book?
It would be swell if you would put a countdown element up while you're advertising your awesome products during the video. I fear it harms your viewer retention or leads to people skipping to random sections of the video when you don't.
As a young “black” male, it frustrates me to know that people are trying to divide us up by labeling us as “white vegan” or “black vegan”. Why can’t we just be vegans?
sick how common apartheid gets back if suites someones narrative.
The WEF has these people convinced that the best thing is to cause division. While we're busy fighting each other, the WEF is influencing governments around the world to screw the human species over.
Hell yeah! What happened to the teachings of (in my opinion) the greatest american ever? Martin Luther King.
Coz u aint the same buddy.
I had never heard of this before!
It’s racist to think other cultures are unable to comprehend compassion.
Humans in general are unable to understand it. They're instinctively violent. Leftists are especially aggressive towards animals.
Exactly!
Culture=\=race. Some cultures are shit.
I completely agree. I hope a more inclusive veganism exists one day which I can align myself with publicly and without shame.
💯❤
I'm black. Nothing about veganism is racist. Every vegan is an awesome and compassionate person. ❤
not every vegan... lol.
Definitely not my experience with other vegans
not really. Many vegans are supporters of "Israel" and are Andrew Tate fans. Be careful, many vegans aren't always nice people (I'm a white vegan btw)
Milk is!!!
@@Legend7211😂😂
As a white male vegan I can confirm I only went vegan so I could be racist.
😂
As a Bull calf... I don't care about your racist views...Thanks for not eating my organs or wearing my skin.. Godspeed!
Lmao
😂😂
haha ❤
Vegan 6.5 years my skin is still brown as the day I started.
Good on you! Great comment
lmao😭 I just choked on my water💀💀
If someone told me that veganism is racist, I'd just laugh.
you still can argument against them if they proclaim they meant that serious
@@christianhorn1999 I can't argue with an idiot.
@@christianhorn1999Sometimes it's not worth it
It someone but meat industry speaking or ego speaking
What does your profile picture mean?
I am Native American and you inspired me to cut out meat a few years ago. Since then, I’ve gotten a lot of shit from family members, who tell me that it’s ironic for me not to eat meat as an Indian. To me that’s literally a racist thing to say but they simply don’t see how it is. I’m the odd one out so I deserve to be spoken to that way.
Ultimately what I’m trying to say is, it’s definitely not racist or anti-indigenous to be vegan. People can throw that at YOU because you’re white and it’s an easy talking point, but even I get ridiculed for the same “anti-indigenous” reasons. Does that make me anti-indigenous or racist? Of course not.
The vegan argument is the only justified moral argument regarding meat consumption.
Hi Sebastian, thanks for offering your viewpoint.
I’m white and both my wife and I are from family farms where we raised and butchered.
We are now the odd out in our families…it gets easier after a few years.
For myself, it’s the industrialization that I find inexcusable.
Livestock and poultry…even aquaculture ..can be sustainable and healthy for the land, water, people and animals…but Old MacDonalds Farm isn’t the norm.
The processed meats, corn syrup and enriched wheat my family eats are not traditional.
Wild-lands management can, indeed must, include harvesting game.
My ancestors who immigrated to what becomes the U.S., failed to recognize the sophistication of indigenous land management.
Many people have the opportunity to gather, hunt, fish and/or cultivate native plants.
This can be really important and special in many ways, especially for Native Americans.
My Grandfather and Grandmother were subsistence farmers especially in retirement, and grandpa did a lot of hunting and fishing…milked a goat, rode a mule and probably gleaned fields too (I can’t imagine why he wouldn’t).
It was a way of life.
Whatever people (or peoples) are included among your ancestors…they didn’t eat chili-cheese dogs and hot Cheetos…nor did mine…
and if they just happened to find a naked, frozen stiff turkey laying around,
they would be understandably skeptical of eating it themselves…
probably best to just let the dogs have it …right?😂
Anyway, thanks again …we gotta love our families. Cheers!
Eating white man devil animal based foods is racist.
To state anything about the body you’re born into is racist, no matter what someone looks like, it’s literally discrimination and racism
A punchy way to adress this behavior is by saying something along the lines of: « you are saying there is only one way to be a native american, and that is reducing being native american to a cliche. That is typically what racists do, and it’s not something I agree with. »
To piggyback off what you are saying, from a Caucasian, I observe that Caucasian businesses are destroying the rainforests and other lands where indigenous people used to live, to make room for the cattle industry. I won't tell indigenous people how to feel about it, but I will encourage fellow Caucasians to ask themselves, "Wtf are we paying people to do?". I wouldn't ask someone with less privilege than I have to be vegan, but as someone who lives in the southern United States, I absolutely have the privilege of enjoying a tomato sandwich or PBJ as a snack instead of a hams andwhich. To go to a restaurant and maybe order sides or a salad with no meat/ cheese instead of a steak. I feel like the cattle industry uses a lot of land and destroys the environment. Haven't we Caucasions destroyed enough of the environment and homes for indigenous people? Shouldn't we Caucasians make a decision that we no longer want to be part of that heartless cycle? I do understand Alaskans depend on seafood, but me deciding not to put animal products in my own body doesn't impact them. And our agricultural practices are destroying the oceans that Alaskans depend on, from what I read.
Non-human animals don't care what "race" you are. All of us(animals) just want to live as pain free as possible.
Yes it doesn't matter whether the suffering is human induced or from nature itself. Wild animal suffering is also a matter of ethical concern if you see through a non speciesistic lens
Yes, yes, yes!!!!
I think nature has enough demonstrations in humans and other animals to prove that reproduction is what life really wants.
But factory farming is a product of white supremacy. Indigenous people never factory farmed. Animal abuse is a colonizer's problem.
This is something that always comes up when I talk about veganism with my "liberal" friends, their argument being that veganism is inherently a white privilege and anti-indegenous because it is a recent "trend" that invalidates the age-old cultures and traditions. I am a brown indigenous Nepalese who grew up on a predominantly plant-based diet because meat is seen as more of a privilege in our country.
That position is a logical fallacy.. It's a poor argument designed to misdirect what Veganism really is..
The only thing that matters is that Vegans save the lives of billions of suffering sentient animals..
It doesn't matter what the intentions or ulterior motives are when your a Vegan.. The outcome is the same...You've not paid into a system of death & misery to billions of sentient animals..
@@kwameankrah8191 Exactly. Even _if_ it was a privilege, there's no good reason for those who can to not adopt it. It doesn't make the world worse, on the contrary it makes it tangibly better.
I would posit there is nothing inherently racist about making personal choices around what you eat, irrespective of your race, ethnicity or country of origin. I do however have concerns where people who opt for a plant-based diet demand people already struggling to access adequate nutrition due to poverty, displacement, climatic/environmental factors or infrastructure deficits abide by the same value system as them and then demean/belittle them because they do not.
I don't think this relates to the majority of vegans, but, like in all ideologies, there will always be some adherents whose lack of sensitivity toward disadvantaged groups is expressed through intolerant, dehumanising language and 'othering' of people less privileged than themselves...... and too often the groups being 'othered' are ethnic groups struggling with multiple types of disadvantage in environments that simply don't offer the choices available to everyone else.
@@anserbauer309same thing with the alphabet clan, there’s some extreme individuals who are trans, like the one who lit up that school.
@@anserbauer309 lol has a vegetarian I have been ridicule soo many time by meat eaters and I has a vegetarian, never have I started a discussion because ppl eat meat. I don't know were you live but I certainly doubt that you are being belittle by vegans because you eat meat. Stop being hypocrite with your sad argument. And I am a poor vegetarian, so even that is bullshit, you can eat plant base even having few resources... It is always the same argument/excuses with ppl that eat meat, it is tiering
"Veganism is racist." I'm Vietnamese and the religion of my family is Buddhism. Though not religious, our religion teaches ahimsa. With me being from a town and priviledged enough to have a local market and different restaurants, the appropraite interpretation of that means to become vegan. Most people who are more priviledged or have the same living background as me have no excuse to not be vegan.
There's a lot of non-vegans in my sangha. It's baffling.
Fellow Vietnamese vegan!
Yess~...@@Lithiumgurl210
And what about the unprivileged ones? What if they want to become part of our movement, in spirit? What if they want to support everything veganism stands for, despite the fact they can't fulfil it in practise due to their location? Should we systematically disclude them?
Put it another way: if a gay person moves to the middle of the Afghani desert and doesn't have buttseggs for a whole year, are they still gay?
Okay, well then how come if I move to Tahiti for a year and live on a low volunteering salary and have to eat fish, I'm automatically no longer one of you anymore even though my beliefs haven't changed one iota? How come I have to stay quiet in my Facebook groups while I'm over there, never mentioning the situation for fear and being shamed and told I'm "not a real vegan?"
@@alexwilder8315 People who live in underprivileged lifestyles commit violating acts for survival such as participating in warfare and stealing. You do not live in that lifestyle. You use their situation as an excuse to justify your harmful acts against animals.
Ugh! So sick of "No ethical consumption under capitalism" being used as carte blanche to do whatever you want - whereas it was meant to acknowledge that being ethical is difficult under the system we live in.
I lived to see the same people who used that phrase now call for boycott of sionist brands
They are arrogant apathetic selfish self interested blues with red pain
@@PrimalShutterboycott for this but not that, yeah
Exactly, It's meant to be a critique of capitalism, not a critique of being ethical
Crazy people don't take that statement to mean they should be making an effort to consume as ethically as possible, and just choose to use it as a throwaway excuse to be lazy and immoral.
I can't change being white. But I can change what I eat, and I can change the harm I cause. And so I did, becoming vegan. This is an exhausting argument, thank you as always for your passion and education, Ed ❤
Exactly
@kittymeowmeow93 The whole insidious agenda is to make people hate themselves, their own skin color and the body they're born in. Hopefully you're not saying you'd change what you were born as if you could?
you shouldnt want to change being white, its okay to be white...
@thomasbosson94 that wasn't what I meant, I just meant that being white isn't something anyone can change, so it doesn't (especially along side being vegan) doesn't automatically make someone racist
@@kittymeowmeow93Why would anyone want to change that ?
December 17th is my one year anniversary of being Vegan ❤
happy anni
Since 2011 💚
March 2024 will see me 5yrs WF omni.. the result of happening upon the false religion that is veganism.🤓🙏
Congrats! Once your mindset is changed, you don't even have to try anymore 💚🌱
@@Unmasking_Viandalisme meat stroke?
It's funny how people love to make it about themselves when being vegan is for the animals.
Convince animals to stop eating each other
@@Gt3rs8483 they have a need, we don't, we have the technological ability and moral agency to not eat sentient beings. Try to find animals killing each other unnecessarily, and that will be much more uncommon, they only do it for defence/sustenance.
@@Gt3rs8483I did!
My dog is very happy and healthy eating vegan
Thanks for your concern about animals eating other animals.
In many cases, we currently cannot help them. But after we stop the atrocity of the animal industry and end the practice of humans eating animals, then we can address the animals in the wild.
Your eagerness is admirable, but one step at a time.
Yeah, I see this a lot. There are a lot of so called vegans who constantly make it all about them.
@@Gt3rs8483 that's a ridiculous statement
In Germany the huge discounter chains have started to sell vegan animal substitute products for the same price or cheaper than actual meat. I think Lidl said they would start doing this this September or October? And now all the other discounter chains followed their lead. So here at least, it will become easier than ever before to be vegan.
the only reason for a product discount is the accelerated sale before the product's expiration date and at times when the demand for the same product is significantly reduced. it is noticeable that the production lines of many articles marked as vegan-friendly have been shut down precisely because of the lack of interest of customers. this could be a sign that going vegan will become harder and harder every day.
@@v.a.n.e. @v.a.n.e. do you know how Aldi and Lidl (the two biggest discounter chains in germany) work? They are cheap because they have almost exclusively their own brands, (which are often the same as the name brands but without the brand name slapped on) thus they can offer the groceries at cheaper prices, since they don't have to give money to another company. They have smaller stores and don't have big in store warehouses and they do not spend time displaying everything prettily but just stack them in their boxes in the stores. This means they don't need as many workers and they also use local farms instead of shipping their stuff all over the country. These are some of the reasons why they can sell much cheaper. Their in house vegan stuff is actually really good, at least in Germany. It is just smart to sell it for the same price as their animal products, since vegan products are the fastest growing food market in germany and they want to establish a market dominance there.
Everything in their store is cheaper and not because its old or about to expire. But because they have been super smart about their store design, minimal staff and all else I mentioned above ☺️
Idk when they will start to sell their vegan products in other countries, but once they do a lot of people will have much more access.
Also as a side note, ALDI is the fastest expanding grocery store in the US, while Walmart failed in germany pathetically, Aldi seems to be successful despite being very different from what US customers are used to.
@@v.a.n.e.Wrong, Lidl took that step because they want to have more & more plant products which makes sense given how more & more products have become available in the past years & selling well. They want to convince (more) people to consume more plant products for environmental reasons which is smart cause an environment one can live in is necessary for making money.
@@KanashiAtisuto you have a unique sense of humor and … no evidence.
LIdl, like every other serious company, have one version of their business plan for the public and other versions that are really intended for the company's actual expansion and financial gain. there is no place for a romance in the crueI business world.
besides, I didn't mention Lidl specifically in order not to speculate. what I said is a global phenomenon and is noticeable everywhere you look. Lidl is just a part of it.
@@v.a.n.e. I'm German, there are many German articles about Lidl's moves & I've been vegan for 7 years now so besides numbers which are easy to find online I know, have seen with my own eyes how much the vegan product range has increased. The future will also simply show that prices haven't been decreased due to the products expiring or significant reduction of demand. The plant-based product market has been growing (also easy to find numbers for that online) so your conclusion makes zero sense. Who knows if Lidl's reasonable enough to actually want to contribute to a healthier environment or at least be smart enough to ride on that wave but that's the reason they publicly share- which can also be good for marketing. What's their actual reason? Surely not expiring products or a significant reduction of demand. Another reason could have been wanting to set themselves apart from other stores but Aldi quickly followed suit, for example, reducing prices as well. Still, the marketing & Lidl having been first is out there hence they could still (have) experience(d) a boost in sales & popularity. Questionnaires have shown that plenty of people would choose (more) plant-based products if the prices were more similar so from that angle it also makes sense for Lidl to take action.
Its always been the same to a certain degree. I'm a 69 year old vegan - I started young - back in the 60's when I was at school was a literal 'outcast' because I would not eat meat etc etc etc
I started about the same time but never faced that problem except in my family
69 is a nice age 👌
Wow! That’s sad but also admirable 😎 what made you go vegan so early, i guess there weren’t too many of us yet? And what was it like being vegan in the 60s? Or before the 2000s overall
@@myrrysmaikku- I was born like it. I did not want to eat meat from my earliest memories and all I would eat was bread, potatoes, fruit and veg and I remember as a tiny child asking about how that meat got onto people's plates - scientists have now discovered that vegetarianism is genetic - mine certainly is. At school I was labelled a freak but I have always had an 'aversion' to meat eaters so I did not want their love anyway and it has caused terrible lifelong problems with men as in those days there was not a vegan/veggie man to be found (as do not want meat in my home) - not one so I have spent my life with loads of cats who are fish fed (I can cope with fish) along with dry food
@@mikethecornking - Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm yes its absolutely lovely :-)
It's unbelievable how stupid some humans get when you refuse to participate in violence towards other animals.
The mental gymnastics to avoid simple facts is crazy! People do everything they can to avoid responsibility.
For what?
As a brown skinned man in the rural south I think it’s ridiculous how people try to paint veganism as being racist. Those people have almost definitely not had to drive past fields where all you can smell is animal crap in the air to the point where even rolling up your car windows and turning off your air conditioner might not be enough to avoid the smell. Nor do they mention that it’s rare to find slaughterhouses and industrial farms in higher income areas where poc are less likely to afford to live at. When you take into consideration that slaughterhouse workers are more likely to have mental health issues and be violent towards other people aswell that makes the claim even more laughable. Especially you you acknowledge that lower income areas generally have less access to therapy and or are less socially accepting of therapy.
I think being vegan is the opposite of racist. I live in NC and have driven past the hog farms where the smell chokes you half to death in your car for about 15 minutes on the highway. I would think if you care about low-income people of color, you’d boycott pork.
This is such a critical point. Everyone seems to forget that after the animals, slaughter workers suffer the most. And guess who predominantly works in the slaughter industry? Mostly marginalized people who have no other options. People really recoil at this point, and we need to keep pushing on these crazy intersectionalists.
I got in a comment war under one of The History Wizard's videos which presented a long list of "People you shouldn't argue with." It was literally all fascists, nazis, white supremacists, and then he added vegans at the end of the list. A lot of fanboys in the comments kept saying veganism is inherently ableist and racist. I blew up their comments with examples of vegans throughout history and across the non-white world until he finally took the video down !!! Small victory xoxoxo
doing God's work my dude 🙏🏻
Nice😊😊😊
Based
well done❤
Veganism is ablest a lot of people's bodies need meat. I can see how it's racist too since different people's DNA has different needs and not everyone can go without meat and be healthy.
As a 60+ year old, vegan for 1 year now, from a multi-generational vegetarian family, I find Ed's calm and gently confrontational style, armed with stats, to be most compelling. Did I pre-order his new book? Fuck, yeah, several days ago already!
I think a full video addressing the 'no ethical consumption under capitalism' would be very well received, and may encourage more progressive people to consider going vegan. I have heard this argument against veganism very often, and having a video to send them would be really helpful. Thanks, Ed!
@@Mattycakes1 It certainly would, but sadly the reality is that most people aren't bothered if it is deemed too much a hassle. They will certainly have to answer some uncomfortable questions with their grandchildren in the future when they inevitably ask "So why did you still eat meat/dairy?" Actions speak louder than words.
"Action expresses priorities." - Mahatma Gandhi
Honestly, it hinges on the idea of separating "no ethical consumption under capitalism" from "the least ethical consumption under capitalism," because people basically use it as a blank check to say that no consumption is a valid target for criticism.
If you're doing this rhetorically, you can work backwards from something obviously horrendous. "What if someone wanted to purchase CP?"
Most will say that it's horrible. If so, you've got your answer. Even under capitalism, some forms of consumption very clearly go beyond what is acceptable.
They no longer have an absolute position. Instead, it's one you can push on. "Why is paying for animals to be murdered acceptable then?"
Either they downplay how bad murdering animals is, or they cede ground. If they do the former, they simply don't care enough about other animals. If they do the latter, you can reach through to them.
And, obviously, if they try and claim that meat is necessary, you have tons of studies on nutrition and others on accessibility and cost that you can show them.
Vegan 8 year's now . There is so much anti vegan rubbish out there , its ridiculous
Great do check out fit tuber you tube channel for amazing healthy vegan recipes for breakfast lunch and dinner there u will find a lot of Indian dishes and varieties
@@Vvvv86434 l love vegan indian food .
the cows, pigs, chickens, turkeys , goats & sheep are all Pro Vegan in their heart...
We do this for them...our fellow humans will wake up later...
Tell me about it. Vegan 18 yrs, vegetarian 10 years before that. I have been mocked and taunted by acquaintances, verbally assaulted by strangers in public overhearing me order food, and even suffered a Mob style hate crime once.
So sorry to hear :C yeah they tell everything to not face their inner dissonance and realize their ignorance and privilege to ignore anything.
Almost two years being vegan ❤️ never better!!! 🎄❄️💚
I’m Eastern European and I was lucky to be exploited to work In tomato Green house not a slighter house. I don’t have any kind trauma from that 6 months of cheap labour 😂 none 😂just gotten stronger and turned my life around ❤
I live in the American South. In my small city, the only store advocating veganism and selling vegan products is black owned, and in the USA, more than 8 percent of black [eople are vegan, compared with only 3 percent of the general population. If you live in a state that has big pork companies, they almost always plop those horrible facilities in rural black areas, thereby robbing families of clear air, earth, and water and the financial value of their generational wealth, which is held in the land.
True 😢
If you've watched "What the Health" there's a heart breaking segment about how farms are ravaging rural black communities in North Carolina.
Quote from soytheist: "To say that indigenous people in particular don't have to go vegan is to hold indigenous people to a lower moral standard than everyone else. This in itself is a form of bigotry. It is the soft bigotry of low expectations. You think so lowly of indigenous people that you think we cannot reach the moral standard that everyone else is capable of."
Damn man, I miss Soytheist. I hope he starts uploading again.
@@samdaniels2Poor guy died of our protein deficiency 😢
While that is true, we’ve had a long history of white people telling indigenous people how to live their lifes and suppressing them. And also there are hunter tribes in Africa that only eat fresh meat. They live in an area too dry for agriculture. I don’t think it would be right to tell them to go vegan as they don’t have any other options and also they are really sustainable with their way of life as they are basically a part of the ecosystem without robbing it from its ressources. They probably live far more sustainably than any vegan in Europe or America ever could
@@olivero.1877 spot on
@@olivero.1877I agree 100%
Yes, please do make a video about "no ethical consumption under capitalism". I'm already looking forward to it 💚🐾🌱
What on earth are you talking about? STOP trying to politicise something as important as veganism. Animals don't give a toss what ideology you have when they're strung up struggling for their lives as they're throats are slashed....GROW UP!
@@donnae9566 calm down, ed brings it up @13:20
Vegans would rather attack individuals instead of addressing systemic issues because they are cowards.
@@clankfish I'll calm down when others shut their big mouths and stop keep trying to politicise veganism. So BACK OFF!
@@donnae9566I think you had a small misunderstanding of the comment. From what i understood the comment is trying to say that: people claim that living under capitalism makes you not able to ever make any ethical decision ever, because simply you existing means that you are causing the suffering of millions.
And ofc, we know that this argument is completely silly, because noone chose to be born in this world, and the only thing we can control is our choices. And therefore one must do the best they can practically do. No matter what political system or culture they are into.
Meat eaters will do anything and blame anyone for being cruel. This is just bizzare.
You're on your own this time.. Eve.
And it's dehumanising, unlimited generalisations about other groups of human beings with a different ideology to your own that show how your visceral bigotry gets in the way of any potential, rational discussion and persuasion opportunities. Rather than try to convince people through reasoned argument and humanitarian value, you opt instead for religious-style 'othering', dehumanising and belittling tactics..... much like a couple of countries' leaders I can think of right now.
Don't let labels divide us. Great video bro 🙏🤞🏻☝☝
People who accuse veganism as being a racist ideology are like people trying to say people who work for fire departments just can't get enough of forest fires. The entire point of veganism is that you literally want every sentient being whether its human or non human to live peacefully and without harm.
.....and that is a denial of nature. Veganism has never been about this.....
I've never heard anyone accusing people who work for fire departments just can't get enough of forest fires, nor do I believe that such people exist. are you trying to say that people who accuse veganism of being a racist don't exist?
it was a similie, a figure of speech, not a factual statement. @@v.a.n.e.
fair enough, the question whether such people exist or not still remains open.
if veganism is all about sentient beings, why isn't it written like that in the definition of veganism? @@doyoudevelop
I'd be curious to know what definition of veganism you are quoting from for your claim? @@v.a.n.e.
People just can't be bothered to change, and they'll use ANY excuse to not change. No matter how crazy or illogical.
Nutrition is a🍑& will always be the Achilles' heel of V.. but you do you.
True but plenty of people try and have serious health issues as a result unfortunately
@@MsSmokeNmirrors i mean, a little bit of research is required at first to see what foods to replace animal products with. If you go vegan and don't look into nutrition at all and only eat fast food or bread and lettuce yeah you're gonna have serious health issues. It's a bit of effort to look stuff up, i get that, but its only the first month after that it's really not very difficult.
I did!
@@allandmI must be an anolomaly then as I'm old and just eat food (as long as it's vegan). Been vegan for about 15 years now, never take supplements, enjoy the odd glass of wine or two with dinner and never sick. Humans put top much value on themselves and analysing everything, just shut up and get on with it.
One argument not mentioned here is “it’s racist to ask people of color, or anyone whose ancestors were a victim of oppression by the current system, to be vegan because it’s not our problem to solve.”
With the food deserts argument, I bring up Typhoid Mary. She gave a bunch of people Typhoid fever because she didn’t wash her hands. If I said to her, “you’ve got to wash your hands, you’re hurting people!” and she came back with “well, people in third world countries can’t wash their hands” then I think we’d be within our rights to say, “…yeah, but you can, and you not doing so hurts others. Just because someone else can’t doesn’t give you justification to act like those who can’t if it means others will be hurt. At that point you have a moral responsibility not to harm that maybe people in third world countries don’t have, precisely because you can. This argument translates to veganism as well - everyone that can, should because we need to start incorporating the interests of animals we breed into our decision making.
Interesting and apt parallel! Thanks for sharing.
I think we should help about food deserts. Vegans should try to be practical in that way too. If the government intervenes with subsidizing animal products why can't they help with plant foods and products instead? Especially since animals products are more resource intensive and more expensive.
Bob Linden said nonveganism is taking the poor man's bread to give meat to the rich man. He was saying that instead of people making a vegan world that's able to feed everyone, many people decided to hoard wealth, resources, and land to make unsustainable animal products for a few people.
@@user-gu9yq5sj7c Because Big Ag lobbyists 'own' the politicians, and our Reps in Congress,and get pay backs. They also have control over the USDA (Thanks, Biden/Obama for Tom Vilsack, former exec of Monsanto, and overseeing, once again, the corrupt and unaccountable USDA/ "Wildlife Services"- which exterminates millions of wildlife each year, on the behest of factory farm ranchers...), FDA, our food, water supply, and animal welfare laws.
Here in Bed-Stuy Brooklyn we are surrounded by wonderful vegan establishments. The Jamaican/Rastafarian variant is ital.
I wouldn't have even addressed such an outrageous claim. Veganism is built upon caring for all life. The idea that being vegan automatically makes you racist is ridiculous!
As Ed mentioned, it is essential to address such topics. There's a need to address such topics. As injustice is intersectional
Absolutely! Sorry, I wasn't saying Ed shouldn't have addressed this subject. I was just saying I personally wouldn't have even known where to begin. The claim "being white and vegan means you're racist" makes as much sense to me as "you like the color purple which means you have terrible dental hygiene"@@TheTonyspik
what if it's the other way around? people who are racist tend to be vegan. how about that?
@@v.a.n.e. It's more likely that people who love pets but hate other animals are racist. I think that would be obvious.
@@v.a.n.e. that doesn't mean they're wrong about veganism. and considering that the same type of people who oppose veganism are also the kind to use racist dogwhistles, you're going to need better evidence for your claim that "trust me bro"
Having lived in Portland I can say first hand that unwarranted accusations of racism gets thrown around with with such frequency that it loses meaning; essentially becoming a lazy replacement for real arguments
Portland was just listed for the most vegan resterants in the country ( Plant based news)
@@milesclark2966Portland is super woke
This argument is common in my country, where most people think that our cuisine is inherently meat-centric. It turns out that Filipino cuisine, when 300 years of Spanish colonialism is set aside, has actually easily veganizable food, just like every Asian country. Even if people say some of our tribes eat wild boar or sacrifice animals during rituals, the way we eat animals now through animal agriculture is actually worse because we do it 3x a day, 365 a week, served at buffets and people generally think that if you eat meat and have fairer skin, one is better off economically.
Then there are people who say us Filipino vegans are easily influenced by "Western" ideas, who may actually have some concern because they only know of veganism from "white" influencers who are usually American or British who also were our colonizers. It cannot be blamed because the way I went vegan myself was INITIALLY through content from vegan influencers from both countries, and Flipino vegan influencers have only started to emerge fairly recently. Some content I used to watch are now ex-vegans, and as I grew in this journey, I've more diverse content to draw ideas from to improve my perspective as a vegan.
But the more we vegans here learn about food justice, we realize that the most recognizable aspects of my food and culture are actually Spanish-influenced. Even I resisted going vegan at the start because I had always thought that eating meat was part of our culture. It's also common for vegans here to encounter someone who rejects Christianity, because it paved the way for our colonization, and won't go vegan because of prevailing ignorance about actual Filipino culture.
Vegans in this country are challenged because this concept is so fringe and most people think veganism attacks our culture, but actually when I think about it, I'm actually coming back to my roots. I no longer associate lechon or adobo as part of Filipino culture when there's actually vegan or veganizable Filipino food from pre-colonial times.
The association between speciesism and racism is obvious and extensive as Ed illustrated. Compassion is a universal principle that can be extended to all beings, not just selective groups who suffer. Veganism is essential to fulfill the adage, “practice what you preach”, or “walk the talk”.
Racism wouldn’t even exist without speciesism.
No difference between you and rats and cockroaches?
@@EVIL-en1ym that is an incredibly stupid argument to make and you know it. Saying animals deserve better treatment does not mean animal lives are of equal worth to human lives. Also, when was the last time you ate rats or cockroaches?
@user-cx9nc4pj8w well, she did say "all beings" and obviously wants to cancel difference by virtue of species, but hey, like veganism you dont exist. However, do feel free to give me your best argument for veganism while i enjoy smoked trout and a cheese platter. If i find time i might smile and nod but mostly ignore your stupidity.
The biggest problem we have in this world is labellings people to magnify our differences instead of labeling people on what unify us as humans.
Hi Ed, as a socialist I always find the ‘no ethical consumption under capitalism’ argument difficult to respond to. I find it hard to organise my thoughts around the matter into words - would love to see a video of you explaining this
I like to say: we are inherently born into corrupt societies & participate in them until we can make monumental change through activism- just as with any social justice movement
Really clutching at straws with this argument. Thank you for continually educacting me Ed, and thank you for EVERYTHING you do ❤️
The "No ethical consumption under capitalism" is so extremally common in online leftists spaces (where I do my online activism).
I'd love it if you made a video about it.
Thank you so much for this video, it's a topic that I hear about a lot and always struggle to respond to.
I also just signed up for the workshop I cannot wait 🌱
Love the video and I am looking forward to the book and the workshop! Thank you!!
Just that opening statement is brilliant.... Love your eloquence and can't wait for the workshop and the book!! 🫶
These videos are always amazing, but this one was particularly important educational material!!❤
Yes please make another video that explains how we can respond to "there is no ethical consumption under capitalism" because i hear that a lot and kind of agree but it's also an excuse because it wouldn't hold up justifying other injustices either
Amazing video! Cannot wait for your book.
Thank you Ed, your videos are so well put together. You’ve always been a voice of reason in this strange world. Will be buying your books!
I've had occasions where I've been called "racist" or "nazi" BY WHITE PEOPLE because I disagree with them.
Also, some poc just assume if you disagree with them you must be white. I'm Mexican. Born in Mexico, moved to the states as a kid. I disagreed with another Mexican woman online about something to do with Mexican culture and her reply was "I don't listen to white people". LMAO I found it particularly funny because she was one of those Mexicans that don't speak Spanish and weren't born in Mexico.
i'm early!🌱 thank you for all your work Ed💚
Brilliant discussion and points Ed. Love ya all!
No matter what or where someone’s always gotta make it about race.
It was racist of those nonvegans to call veganism racist and think ethnic people can't be vegan. Wasn't it also racist of them to falsely accuse caucasians in that way too? Especially when most caucasians eat animal products, and probably more because most ethnic people are lactose intolerant.
Great job plus a wonderful and informative video as always. Love it. Thanks for everything you do 💚🌱
thank you for articulating this so well!
Yes please do the video about no ethical consumption under capitalism!!!
Love you videos so much ❤️❤️❤️ my husband and I are vegan 3.5 years now
What other system is there other than capitalism?? I'm a small business owner and I like being able to compete with others in my chosen business.
@@shawndarling1980 idk bruh I just wanna see the video damn
@@kofukuu well you should see communism that is even more corrupt. Communist to put their people in line would kill every school teacher, police official, their families, and everyone else who does not agree with them. And also if you want to get ahead in a communist society you better know someone higher up in the party.
One of my regular customers defected from the Soviet Union in the mid 80s. It was when my grandparents had the family businesses he was eating out of a can of dog food.
It was several years before he stopped doing that. But he always said it was better food than what they were able to eat in the Soviet Union. He tells me stories about how it was like living in a communist country.
Dairy is 'the' most racist industry of any food production.
Yes... considering most non European populations are lactose intolerant!
Yet they push Cows milk over the developing world? I saw Cows milk being advertised all around Ghana...This is as racist as it gets!
I'm not white, and i'm vegan.
Thank you for coming to my ted talk.
Have a nice day.
Great date for the workshop 😂 brilliant
Thank you Ed! You did an amazing job summing up all the things people say. I live in Northern California in a small community of non vegan homesteaders who say all these things about vegans. I’ll send them this next time they come at me. 😂🙏🏼💚🥰
Like always Ed, very well articulated 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 You are a gift to the animals. Thank you for all your hard work! I’m currently reading your first book “This Is Vegan Propaganda” and what a gem to Vegans everywhere! ❤
I love you, Ed, and thank you for all you do. I ordered your new book weeks ago. I'm looking forward to reading it.
You are so lovely! Please keep going on. Thanks. ❤
I don't understand how anti-vegans can warp truth and reality so much. It's truly astounding. Whenever you apply a decent amount of logic, sound reasoning and common sense, you realise that the answer is always in support of veganism.
Referring to animals as people?
Was your head born empty or have you had your brain removed since?
I'd like to also mention that being vegan is something that brings all walks of lives together in a good way - the best way possible in my opinion - with the common goal of a healthy, well, happy life lived by all regardless of how we look or communicate. Honestly I thought that's what you meant at first when you said it in the first couple of minutes! It's a very real thing to follow and show support to vegans of all races.
Perfectionism is a standard that is easy to hold us to when trying to move toward at least a better way. You've said it before and I'll say it again, this is a step by step process where progress is not an overnight success (unfortunately - I'm sure most of us wish it were). I think ultimately it's all ridiculous shenanigans to get us worked up, except for 1 thing. Animal ag is banking on a fleeting, sensory "pleasure" that is taste from what I've seen - and that's vanishing tremendously. No many are the days where there are any reasons to continue to slaughter sentient beings in the masses. And it's showing.
Sending you much love & support Ed. I saw your post about Harvard recently and I would so like to come and see a talk of yours sometime! You are such a great person and role model. This is a great deep dive into the facets of the argument against this notion.
You're very rational and well spoken. Thank you for fighting the good fight ❤
You forgot one thing. The highest number of vegans in the world are Mexicans. Brown people.
Where did you get that statistic?
Most vegetarians/vegans are from China and India, but Mexico is up there with them!
@@MrAllmightyCornholioz China and India have populations of over a billion so that's not surprising but per capita they're probably quite low compared to Western countries.
@@austinbuxI'm talking about Mexico, not Mexicans in the USA. Before colonization, indigenous Mexicans where primarily vegan. Many are reverting back to their natural pre Spanish diet to curb diabetes.
Type in 'country with highest rate of vegans' Mexico is number one.
@@christyavalos9201 You realise 'vegan' and 'plant based' are not the same thing?
As a black vegan for 5 years... I refuse to take part in this argumen. The amount of BS meat eaters will exclaim just to not accept the truth, is mind boggling...
Anyway love the channel ❤
Best video....Great arguments n insights Ed 💚✊️
Yeah Ed I'd love a video on "no ethical consumption under capitalism". Seems like a pretty big meme rn and there are obvious counters to it
One of the first resonant articles I read when I became vegan in 2014 stated that Carnivorism actually perpetuates discrimination and maltreatment of vulnerable “others” (meaning people of color races) by viewing animals as lesser and therefore undeserving of respect, consideration and compassion.
wow, that's such an awful and lowbrow attempt at vegan propaganda that it almost feels repugnant to describe. I hope your views are different, though.
Well said. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Thanks so much for this content!
Eloquent as always Ed. Thank you.
Quite frankly, I couldn't give an ff, if somenone thinks how I eat is racist. I don't eat this way for my health or peoples opinion.
Can you address as well the argument that veganism is "able-ist"? I've had conversations with friends that reject veganism simply because there are poor people and they are 'excused' to use animals in order to make a livelihood, even if that's not their economical reality.
I'm a disabled & poor vegan. Tell your friends that's bs. Although, as a disabled & poor person, I'm used to being ignored, no matter the topic; so they'll probably tell you that's just anecdotal & I'm
probably also brainwashed or something.🙄 Gosh, I'm (and many other poor & disabled vegans I know) so fed up with being used as a token excuse against veganism!
Yea. Disabled poor vegans exist. My sensory issues do not justifu making someone’s sensories worse
More of moral choice than an income one.
Really well done video addressing this topic, thanks Ed
i prefer your debate videos the best, can you do some more of those please? amen
Gary Yourofsky said that he got his best reception to Veganism while speaking in Israel.. Why? Because they could relate to the suffering of animals as they had been through similar traumatic experiences..
P.O.C. are in the same position...We should be able to empathize with the horrific treatment of sentient animals.. We are called to more compassion not indifference..✨👊🏽
Israel is veganwashing themselves in order to try to deflect from their genocide. We see right through that bs. Killing civilians And ethnic cleansing is not and will never be vegan
🩵 #veganforeveryone
Same here, let alone as ingesting (of) animals and junk can end all?
this is so good, thank you ed!
great video - well explained and researched
Hey Ed, I appreciate your work and I wish you the best. I also understand that you have to sell a book and finance your work somehow. But I cant help but feel mixed emotions about the way you're peddling the exclusivity, pre-order and workshop FOMO here and in your last video.
Just wanted to give you this quick feedback. Hopefully you can make it be less on the nose since these practices are usually associated with more scummy types, which I don't take you to be. Cheers.
Those scummy types don't have a sanctuary full of animals to feed & care for, though...
@@biancat.1873 I know. That doesn't mean he is a perfect being and above criticism though, does it?
to be vegan is to be a revolutionary..how can we develop compassionate relationships with human animals and nonhuman animals? i was lucky to be brought up vegetarian for animals by a wonderful compassionate mother and then learned the dairy and hen industry is even more cruel and so became vegan ..i cant imagine how spiritually bankrupt it must feel to not love and enjoy the love of other species. im so glad so many people are becoming aware of other species pain at the hands of humans. i feel the world will one day be vegan maybe sooner than most people think ❤
You are once again spot on Ed!! Thank you for sharing this video. You are amazing and truly inspiring.
- once again, well spoken.
Thank you Ed!
Dr. Winters! ❤🏆🌱
Professor ED! ❤🏆🌱
Awesome Ed ! You're an inspiration mate !
goooo ed! thank you so much!💚
‘’A lot of it comes from’’ excuses nothing more, people resist change and this is just the latest absurd excuse! 🌻🌎✊🏽
anyone thinking comunisium is a better system, they should read a book about the history of china and USSR, current global system we have atm is more akin to cronie comptratisium than capitalist, if you want to choose who to give money to for a product that is ethical or non exploitive, only under capitalisum it csn be done.
Great video ed, loved the various points you've addressed. discussions about veganism can intersect with broader social issues, including issues related to race and socioeconomic factors. Critics argue that mainstream veganism may sometimes be perceived as culturally insensitive or exclusionary, particularly when certain vegan movements or campaigns seem to lack awareness of cultural diversity and fail to address issues of food justice and accessibility.
For example, some argue that veganism can be seen as a privilege, as access to plant-based foods and vegan products may be limited in certain communities due to economic constraints or geographic location. In this context, discussions about veganism may overlap with discussions about racial and economic inequalities. Another example I can think of is white vegans telling indigenous tribes off the grid that they should be living vegan can be seen as a little ridiculous, and as some would perceive, racist.
It's essential to recognize that perspectives on this topic can vary, and there isn't a single, universally accepted viewpoint. Some argue that veganism, at its core, is about ethical considerations related to animals and the environment, while others emphasize the importance of incorporating intersectionality into discussions about food choices to address broader social issues. (which I think you do very well, but a lot of white vegan sorta shut that second part out)
Ive been vegan for about 8 years and your page was one of the first I came across and have been watching you since. keep up the good work!
Just ordered your new book
The fact is that Veganism itself originates from Indic religions such as Jainism, Buddhism, Hinduism and Sikhism. The whole idea originated in India some 5000 years ago and does not have anything to do with white people.
Veganism, as a movement, was a peace accord with nature, a reaction to the mindless killing of two world wars.....Neo veganism was a means by which to monetise the movement, to push it into the hypercapitalist mainstream, using the methods well practiced by the fossil fuel industry.....Bend the truth to breaking point.
Always funny when those trend chasers add race into everything.
Whoever you are and wherever you come from, if you choose compassion over cruelty you are an amazing human and I love your work!
Love your videos.
LOL, I have never heard this one about vegans, and I thought I heard them all. Note, while watching this video a commercial popped up showing happy people of color preparing turkey carcasses for Thanksgiving dinner. Thanks Ed!
I hadn't heard this one yet either
The ads are dependent on the viewer’s history in the main or a key word in the title. I get lots for Clean Oil 😢