or wait and hope for something identical to the rift s but with higher resolution and refresh rate screens. thats what im doing. otherwise nothing is good enough and cheap enough to upgrade from my wmr yet.
@@wotever99ninynine True, you may be waiting for a year or two though. Not much of anything is coming out anytime soon. Even Abrash had removed his time-line for another Rift, hinting that it will basically never happen since Facebook will be dismantled and Oculus sold away by the time they could start building another Rift.
@@wotever99ninynine I prefer my Rift S far more then my Odyssey+. Unless the IPD dosen't work for you or you play exclusively dark games (something like Elite Dangerous) and really want those black levels, I'd recommended the Rift S over any WRM headset in 2019. Both have pros and cons but these three thing do it for me: 1. Screen sharpness 2. Bigger sweet spot 3. better tracking
they must have a whole warehouse full of returns by now... this has got to be one of the most failed launches of any hardware in history... 6 cameras and they left a blindspot so you cant play first person shooters.. unbelievable.. its really looking worse than my wmr for tracking. and i am actually being serious there. it actually does look worse...
@@sqlevolicious All HMDs with inside out tracking suck equally, it has nothing to do with HTC and everything to do with no static external frame of reference.
21:07 yeah I feel like that's the point "the competitors don't have to make money with it" Facebook & Oculus undersell massively and Valve goes balls to the wall with the hardware and sells it at cost, HTC just gets lost in the middle.
Comander555666 maybe. But as long as the prices are they way they are right now it will stay niche, we need more manufacturers competing to get more people to buy it at a lower price Chicken and egg issue
Cosmos is such a fail by HTC. That controller tracking at the 699 asking price is criminal. "HTC said they plan on improving the tracking in future software updates"... I wish them good luck with that strategy.
It's the same issue the psvr camera tracking, if I aimed down a gun on psvr the tracking gets all wonky because all of the sensors are in front of each other. This is definitely not being fixed with software updates
@@wotever99ninynine Facebook lost their entire Oculus team so they opted to buy a kit from another company due to having to scrap Brandon Iribe's half-dome project (Rift S is a Lenovo product, not Oculus), so technically Oculus did nothing, they are just providing a third-party kit.
@@sqlevolicious true, although the screen was from the oculus go. but yeah, lenovo made it huh. i can see the similarites. i just wish they hadnt been so damn cheap and put a better screen/ screens in it. i do like the tracking technology though. they did well. they should have released this one for less money, and an identical one with better screen/s for a hundred or so more or something. if they can sell the far more complicated and expensive quest with all its extra parts for the same price as the rift s, they could definitely afford to make the rift s a bit better.. great for entry level pcvr. not the upgrade path existing pcvr users were expecting though..
they should do like the ps4 and ps4 pro. make a rift s and rift s pro. same but with higher resolution 90hz screens. that would be awesome. especially since it appears we might be waiting a while for a true next gen rift or anything resembling the 'half dome' prototype etc etc.
Quest is great for sure and probably the best for the vast majority. I still love my wireless Vive though. It's pricey and lacks mobility, but the tracking is so nice in games like beat saber and I do enjoy games like Skyrim and Fallout (perhaps with the the link cable coming for the quest this point will be moot soon).
@@SegginsProductions I disagree, there are too many inherent issues with streaming VR over usb3, Norm mentioned he didn't notice much when he got a tiny bit of time to use it, but I think with more time, you would notice the 35ms of latency very easily.
agreed. i only sim race and play first person shooters. if i cant play a first person shooter this aint for me. unbelievable. 6 cameras and you cant hold a two handed weapon up to your face.. what games did they think we play? what tracking did they think we need? i just cant comprehend this one.
@@mli3793 I was blow away on the tracking playing Sairento a game where one of your weapons is on your lower back and I can grab it with no problems that's impressive for inside out tracking.
Same here, i waited for the Cosmos, almost pre-ordered...if i wouldn´t be used to be disappointed so often by the gaming industry these days, so i thought that will probably happen with the Cosmos as well, didn´t really thought i´d be right with my choice to wait for reviews before buying. So well...my OCULUS RIFT-S arrived on friday, HTC is gone for now, i am afraid, for that price-class, the Cosmos-Reviews are kinda...well....TERRIBLE.
Yeah, you might not like facebook, but they know what they're doing. I'm actually glad facebook bought oculus, they're going in a way better direction.
the tracking is soooo bad with the Cosmos that it shouldn't be released, the only 1 tracking issue I have with my Rift s is sometimes when you put 1 controller in front of he other for a long period of time
@@MrMiddleWick Rift S had issues but Oculus also has the prowess to fix them too. Yes HTC will improve the tracking but I don't think they have the ability to surpass Oculus for inside-out tracking quality. Oculus has some of the best computer vision programmers in the industry.
MasterSquishy23 Rift S/Quest/Valve Index is where it’s at Rift S is really good for pc already but the quest can do standalone vr and soon link to pc as well... but comfort might be worse - valve index is the highest end Headset you can get - no compromises
@@ThunderDraws yeah i've looked at quest, but my computer is pretty decent, and i dont wanna waste it. and i cant afford valve index, let alone its not avalable in australia, and idk if my pc is good enough to run valve index. so its either rift S or OG vive. i would usually run towards the rift s, considering its cheaper, and its way better performance wise, but idk if i wanna ditch steam for the oculus store. it doesnt have as much games on it.
Doesn't seem like any steps forward. Feels more like a kit that would have been made before all other kits before the industry has learned what makes a good VR experience.
Hello everyone, I own the vive cosmos since 2019. And from the past it had a lot of terrible tracking experience. But the good news that they fixed the tracking A LOT Better now! I still won't really recommend this headset yet but it's good to know that the vive staffs are fixing the issues with the headset. I had less issues then I had from the past and this headset is great if your playing some casual games but if your playing big movement type of game then that gonna be the issue. I didn't return the headset back because I had good feelings that some day it's gonna get a lot better.
Cute dig at WMR. Using a Samsung Odyssey+ and having the time of my life -- in fact I enjoy it more than my original Rift by a fair margin. Only paid $200 too!
the rift is miles better then the odyssey in every way, Im calling fake news on your comment. i had an odyssey for one day and returned it, the rift is a thousand times better. the only time i could see it as an improvement over the rift is if your only using it for racing and flight sims. even then its so unconfortable
Well, the best options for someone looking for a PC HMD are really simple and boiled down now! Do you want the best for gaming (best picture, best tracking, best controller, mod support, and room for future features) at a premium price? - Valve Index. Or do you want a fantastic middle of the road PC VR experience that is easier to set up and a more affordable price? - Rift S or Quest, depending on how much you value using a VR standalone device for when you leave your computer room.
or if you dont mind tracking of controllers being a bit worse and want a slightly higher resolution display and slightly higher refresh rate than rift s, and want to save even more money, wmr. but yeah. rift s and index are definitely the two main pcvr players. i guess quest with the link cable now fits in there somewhere too.
Phil Kuffner yeah this goes ignored, time after time. There are ways to buy them using vpns, and shipping companies like comgateway but that means no warranty. They really should state usa only or not include as an available option.
Someone from these youtube tech channels or another tech website needs to ask Valve why the Index isn't available to Australia, Canada and other countries that have missed out. It should have been available by now. Even Linus Sebastian had to use an unorthodox method to obtain an Index to Canada and he's well known in the tech segment
@@gurikasemit They never did that before from what I recall. Usually tested focuses entirely on the headset that is in the review. Now it is more like "look at this freak! These two are normal healthy headsets, but this is just an abomination".
I wonder if they put the front cameras more to the sides instead of trying to make them look like eyes if that would have helped the tracking. And if it's for passthrough, but the passthrough isn't great, _and_ you can flip up the HMD anyway, what was the point?
yeah, or put the side cameras further back and angled them forwards. or just didnt recess all the damn cameras.. why did they do that? and the lip on the edge to block cameras view? why not round the corners? they have the most perfect blind spot ive ever seen. right where my right hand would be when holding a rifle. and since when im in vr im either holding a virtual rifle or a real wheel. this headset is of no use to me. at least half of my vr is first person shooter based. its the only truly immersive and fun way to play vr. htc are as blind as their headset is proving to be.
@Guybrush Threepwood This is not new tech. WindowsMR used this tracking, but it did it better. Besides, there is already a better version of this tracking made by Oculus. HTC tried to do what other companies already did, and failed horribly because they didn't understand why it worked for them. Microsoft got away with bad tracking because the headsets were so cheap and higher resolution at the time. Oculus got inside out tracking perfect with infrared. They've royally messed up on both accounts
@Guybrush Threepwood They didn't move forward at all, they performed more of a side step. They were ahead of the curb with their Lighthouse tracking. Their lighthouses were non cpu intensive and allowed tracked accessories. They could have expanded on that but instead they ditched it for a worse performing interface.
@@prismglider5922 He meant new tech as in came out in the last decade, as opposed to 'reinventing the wheel' where you are reinventing something that has been successful for thousands of years.
@@SimplestUsername Those lighthouses were Valve's tech. When they ended business with Valve they lost the rights to use lighthouses in any future projects. That is why Index has Lighthouse 2.0 instead of HTC.
@@SimplestUsername I take good inside-out tracking over having to setup lighthouses every day. Imagine the hassle bringing a Vive to a friend. Inside-out is easy, mobile and in case of Oculus works extremely well. All manufacturers will hopefully move in that direction with the next set of devices.
I agree with all of this and I've been using this new headset since the 3rd . Also if you change the room around you need to remap the room setup. Including making and in making your bed if your bed takes more then 25% of your room .
@@roflBeck it losses tracking if you change a big part of the room . But you can just set the room up again and it works fine untill 20-40% of the room changes or moves
I'm with Valve on this one. Overall their business is just more in line with what I believe and the kind of future I want to live in. I can see Oculus selling my data/ adding ads everywhere as soon as they take control of the market. Vive isn't a gaming juggernaut, them trying to make their own store for games and the whole subscription thing is stupid in my view.
Lol Valve is just as much of an evil monopolistic tech giant as the rest of them... The reality distortion field around Lord Gaben is ridiculous. You're fucking NUTS if you don't think all your Steam data isn't worth $$$ to Valve. Also, how's that treating you now? Valve doesn't give a flying FUCK about VR anymore. (See Steam Deck & OS).
@@xGaLoSx think about 4K vr, you have to have a really expensive pc and then you gotta buy that vr headset which would be a lot more because it’s “4K” it wouldn’t get many sales because nobody can really run 4k with vr
I tested the Cosmos as well and I really don't like it. Tracking is bad, FOV is small, game support is bad and of course it's much too expensive, Display is good though.
I bet HTC thought that the price was good because how expensive the Index is. The overall experience I've had has not been too bad. A rocky start with the tracking, but the update helped. The halo strap really should go down further in the head though. Would make it more comfortable. The visuals are quite good, with great colors and blacks, but the box where things are in focus is not as large as it could be.
@@aquaticborealis4877 Index is a very good price for what you get, it definitely makes the Rift S seem overpriced. The Cosmos though, I wouldn't pay a penny more than $200 for that kit since even the Lenovo Explorer that is $150 and is pretty similar.
@@sqlevolicious The Rift S is great headset for $400. The clarity you get that's comparable to a $1000 headset is amazing. Tracking isn't the same but Oculus did a great job improving it and it plays good with games in the Oculus store. WMR headsets might be cheaper but they don't track as well as the Rift S and get constant updates to work better.
Oculus Quest user here. I really like what Oculus is doing with their tracking system. I recently got a cheap HP Windows headset just to test out some stuff on PC, and with on two cameras in the front the tracking on WMR is really limited, basically when playing Beat Saber if a note is sliced outside of your own FOV then it's pretty much based on luck. But at least within the player's FOV the tracking is not too bad. I'm quite surprised by how badly HTC has implemented inside-out, hopefully they manage to fix it soon.
I was looking forward to the Cosmos but it feels like it fell short of its goals. I recently got a Rift S and the tracking has been excellent. Archery works very well and I can anchor an arrow to my cheek just like I do in real life without issues. Before this, I had a WMR Lenovo Explorer. Its tracking was good, just very limited due to only 2 cameras, but it was still an excellent inexpensive on-ramp to VR. The RIft S controllers are small (which is good for my small hands) and the headset still fits a petite head with a minimal gap around the nose. I am glad I got the Rift S instead.
The Oculus Rift S touch controlers, the price, softwares and most of all, amazing lenses...makes it the obvious choice IMHO...i love mine. Everything exept for the audio is good...i used to have a CV1 for over a year before the S and it's worth every penny sell your CV1 and get the upgrade i'd say. Gone are the god rays, and the pixels are much tighter togheter making it a lot cleaner. BUT: 80hz vs 90hz i don't notice the difference...but 40FPS vs 45FPS is another story...the cv1 was playable at 45 FPS in many situations...but the 40FPS on the Rift S feel aweful.
@Cole Park Try the ksc75 mod for 20$, you can mount these even without a 3d printer and the sound is better than the cv1 imo. The biggest downside for me is probably the headset shaking when you play some beat saber songs.
No other controller works with it. The old Vive controllers need lighthouse tracking, and the Oculus controllers are obviously unique to that platform.
Yeah... preety much the same as other reviews. Even if they fix the tracking with software update, it's not worth the extra 300$ over the rift S. The only problem people might have with the rift S is the IPD limitation, but most people will be fine
I've been waiting for the right headset for so long now. Bought my VR ready PC in 2016, and...RIFT S has the IPD adjustment problem (it's devastating, been following the development of Oculus rift since the beginning but my Eyes are really close, 57 mm.) Seriously I don't mind the cameras on the wall... I think I'll get the Vive. I just hoped for an upgrade in resolution. (and sadly with life happening, can't afford the Index)
Good choice. Oculus seems to give the most bang for the buck, and they're product are some of the most "polished" IMO. They look lean, and are built well. All while being cheap.
Requiring light is a deal breaker for many inside-out tracking headsets. Being able to play in the dark is something many people don't realize they need, and is something many reviewers don't mention. When you're in VR playing intensive games, you get tired and sweat *a lot*. Not gonna lie, most of the time I just play with my tighty-whiteys on. So when you're playing at night and want to open the windows to the widest, being able to play in the dark is a massive pro. Unless you don't mind being naked in your brightly lit room in the middle of the night with the windows open, if that's your thing.
So, so glad I got the Index instead of waiting for this. My VR journey: Rift DK2, Vive1, Vive-Pro, Odyssey, then Index. Index is by FAR my favorite (and I love the controllers, even with some of the known issues). Since I already had Vive lighthouses, I didn't need to buy them for the Index, and I use 3 light houses, which makes tracking AMAZING. I will be keeping the Index until we get a true gen2 or gen3 HMD.
My brother is deadset on the Vive brand, we're getting the Cosmos for Christmas. I'm going to try it and hope it works out. If it doesn't, HTC has a pretty decent refund policy, so we'll do that and either get a Rift S or save $300 for an Index.
I love my HP WMR headset. I've bought two and they've been great for toting out to the nicest and the nephews. The lack of sentinel towers to set up makes it a breeze. The Quest appears to be a good value for the same reason especially considering that soon you can play pc games through USB as well as controller free literal hand tracking makes it a sight to behold. I'm more than a little concerned about the it's processor/gpu and storage buy hey since you will soon be able to play through USB I see no reason they couldn't a make beefier device to run the headset via USB that you could wear.
Just don’t get the cosmos, the s is better, and $300 cheaper. If you have $1000 to spend, get the index, it’s amazing The only other real options you have are the rift s and the quest. Same price but the s is slightly better as a desktop only headset. With a $20 cable you can turn the quest into a desktop headset and the only difference is the comfort is slightly worse, and the screen is slightly less clear around the edges, (and you lose 8fps) But the quest of course also is a standalone headset if you want to play less intensive games easily and wire free. And if you have a 5ghz router tham you can use the quest to play wireless on your computer
Tldr: Don’t get cosmos Index if your rich Rift s for best cheaper desktop experience Quest for wireless standalone and possible wireless desktop, along with wired desktop
Nice another person to join the Motion squad! (Motion as in cosmos motion, i just call it that so that you can distinguish it better from the other cosmos's)
Thank you once again for this professional and honest review. The Cosmos is garbage, it doesn't bring any innovation to the market and it doesn't even catch up to the competitors. I hope this is the final nail in the coffin of HTC. Let them die and rest in peace, they're hurting the VR market more than they're helping it. Looking forward to Tested's review on Oculus Link next month. I'm really not a fan of the Rift-S but I still want to upgrade my old CV1...
thats a negative outlook. how are they hurting the market? the more the merrier. cosmos is definitley overpriced garbage though. tbh even at half the price its still garbage. im sticking to my lenovo explorer wmr. which is widely considered garbage. but its now got a bit of a glean to it. looks a bit better now...
@@wotever99ninynine I have an explorer, it's amazing kit for only $150. I have so many friends that have bought it and been very satisfied with it, most of them have moved onto the Rift S or Index now and still look back to the Explorer as a great VR device to start with.
@@wotever99ninynine "the more, the merrier": say that to the people whose parties turned out tragic because some mad people invited themselves xD. We don't need more options, we need more GOOD options. The Cosmos is not good. Most WMR options were not good (but they did bring inside-out tracking to life, so I'm kinda glad Microsoft released them). The Vive Focus was not good. I do regard the Vive and Vive Pro as good competitors and headsets, but in terms of engineering they're so damn bad (the controllers, the weight repartition, the software, all this is screwed up on Vive's side). More good options make the market evolve. More options at all just *breaks the market* and slows it down. It's not something that a baby market like VR can afford, in my opinion. But, things will turn out the way they turn out I guess... At least, if HTC does disappear, I won't feel sad xD.
@@Dante02d12 well, if it wasn't for wmr I wouldn't have gotten into vr at all. Everything else was just too expensive. And even now I'm not sure I would have bought a rift s if I didn't already have vr. Still just too expensive, especially outside the US. Sure the Cosmos is trash. But for me at least, they were heading in the right direction. It was exactly what I wanted. Clearly it didn't turn out that way. I firmly believe after watching this video, even my cheap wmr tracks better than the Cosmos, at least for my use case (fps games). But you are right, we don't need more of the same, we need some actual good headsets. Like the rift s with a higher resolution and refresh rate. Call it the rift s pro or something. I would strongly consider buying that if the price was right.
@@wotever99ninynine I feel you, buddy ^^. Personally, I think 500$ is the maximum price point. It's the price of a console, but VR offers so much more than games as it changes absolutely every type of software. It can literally serve as 3D goggles and a home cinema (Virtual Desktop, for example, does both these features). I was really mad at Oculus when they released the CV1 for 700$ (or was it 600$? can't remember, it's a nightmare from a distant past xD), it was just too much.
The Cosmos with the wireless module seems to be the best VR for a wheelchair bound paraplegic. Wireless keeps wires from getting tangled in the chair, and inside out tracking seems ideal since a paraplegic may not be able to reach up to properly mount lighthouses. What are your thoughts?
I really don't understand why they didn't use IR for the controllers. And then having a button on the grip seems like they're just not keeping with the times.
i might be picking one up for cyber monday or christmas,does anybody know if its actually worth it,and when htc might be releasing updates to fix the issues it has with tracking?
no please save yourself The tracking is terrible even in bright rooms, it has the worst tracking of any VR headset on the market.Later down the road you can upgrade it to use SteamVR lighthouse tracking, but that will cost extra and at that point you might as well get an Index.
@@marnix484 Honestly, I'd get Rift S. It's cheaper than both the original Vive and the Cosmos. It has very good inside-out tracking, and ergonomic controllers. The only thing the Cosmos has over the Rift S is the resolution (Cosmos has the highest resolution of any consumer VR headset on the market) but that doesn't matter since the tracking is all over the place and jittery. Also when using a Rift S you have easy access to all Oculus exclusive games, in addition to all SteamVR games.
Your question had probably already been answered but i'd say it can be both. It all depends on your setup, which is kinda stupid since inside out tracking headsets are supposed to stop complex setup. I like my Cosmos and the tracking is definitely getting better but at this state, it can be both.
Regarding the beginning of the video about VR 2.0 I feel it's as silly as talking about Monitors 2.0. There's not going to be a "singularity" of a new device which marks the beginning of a new generation. Headsets will get incrementally stronger in various ways and there's always going to be compromises which discredit the next latest and greatest headset from being a market leader in every aspect.
there is actually. screen resolution is important. and can already be done today.. if you have a supercomputer to run it.. you are right. just having higher resolution screens will not make it vr 2.0.. but having working eye tracking based foveated rendering will be vr 2.0. it will allow for much much much higher resolution screens on current hardware and current cable bandwidth. on top of that variable focus like halfdome could also be considered vr2.0 as its actually a proper change in hardware. not just an increase in screen resolution or fov or refresh rate, lense quality etc. and there is no denying that if a headset came out with all of these it would be considered 'next gen'. they call each new conosole next gen. even though its always just the same thing but with modern higher performance hardware. why should vr headsets be any different. 'next gen' is a casual term people throw around all the time. it has no 'real' fixed meaning. its open to interpretation. i agree with norms wording on the subject. none of these hmds are next gen. its not until a true and obvious game changing advancement comes along i would label it 'next gen'. as i said, eye tracking based foveated rendering, combined with high resolution displays would be an example of that. it could enable retina level fideltiy.
@Cole Park hmmm. it looks like htc vive pro eye has found a way to massively reduce the overhead of using eye tracking + foveated rendering by using variable rate shading supported on rtx gpus (lucky me, i have one of those). they were able to super sample to 9x the screen resolution.. thats insane. so we are definitely well on our way. and they have the working bmw demo for it. here are some links: developer.nvidia.com/vrworks/graphics/variablerateshading zerolight.com/news/tech/foveated-rendering-on-the-vive-pro-eye it looks like we are already there. the first versions of eye tracking plus foveated rendered headsets with high resolution screens could be just over the horizon... if only they made them... we will probably still be waiting a long time. but its clear if they wanted to. they could. you just need an rtx gpu though.
it can probably be done alot better with improved pipelines like you said, like abrash said. but there is no reason not to make generation 1 eye tracked/ foveated rendering headsets now. bringing current versions to the consumers would be the first step. without it we dont have the incentive or the demand for hardware and software engineers to get together and make proper dedicated pipelines for it. someone has to make the first move. i almost want even just that pro eye after reading that article.. even just at that resolution 9x super sampling sounds like a pretty clear picture.
please someone try thinner front pads on the cosmos, maybe even with rubber bands holding visor closer and tighter to face. its how i use my lenovo explorer wmr, and its how i would use the cosmos if i got one. it should improve or even fix any sweet spot/ fov/ clarity complaints.
Very honest review. I agree that the price point is the problem. Some issues may be solved with future upgrades (e.g. controllers tracking), but 700$ as a base price is a bit too much IMHO. Maybe $550 would have been the sweet spot for this device
Thanks for the great review. I'm ready to buy a VR headset/setup. I won't buy Oculus because they are owned by FB and even require a FB login to play. HTC Vibe used and Cosmos are the ones I'm considering. Valve is a bit more than I'm willing to spend since I had to upgrade my PC to handle VR. This video helped me understand the VR ecosystem though I still have a lot to learn. I'm bidding on a VIVE Pro on eBay that I'm hoping to get.
Hi! I'm planning on buying a VR headset for archviz work and I'm deciding between an HTC Vive or a Oculus. I have a Macbook pro 16inch with 64gb ram and a 5600m 8gb graphics card, and would be running bootcamp. Would you have any recommendation of one or the other? thanks!
im in the market for a vr headset, i basically do not have a budget limit, i'm running a 2080 ti, what would you reccomend me to get i have 0 knowledge and there are so many options
I recommend you do some research on what best fits you maybe search about vr headsets like the valve index etc and see some reviews and try to pick the one that may be for you
my question. now they came out with wireless adapter has that improved the tracking, if anbody has bought this with wireless adapter, let me know, from anyone,
Gotta love the vive. I love it's hand tracking and the fact that if you don't want to stay plugged in and play PCVR, you can unplug it and use it as it's own system! So amazing that it does that because I.... Wait... Oh... crap. Sorry. That's Quest. But it's cool if people like paying twice as much for half the usability.
On the resolution comparison, you omitted the Rift S and it having only 2560x1440 versus the Cosmos 2880x1700. You didn't talk about how it compared with the Rift S res, which would have been more useful than discussing the Valve Index's(which naturally has very similar resolution and self-evident that it'd not be particularly noticeable).
Disappointing to say the least. Even discounting the problems with tracking and such, it just doesn't make a lot of sense from any perspective. Being an owner of the original Vive myself, I can confidently say it doesn't make sense as an upgrade path. For almost the same price, I can get a new Valve Index headset and Valve Index controllers. One way I think HTC could have made this a much more attractive prospect was if it had both inside out tracking AND compatibility with Steam VR tracking. My predicament at the moment is that I would love to have the choice of using inside out tracking for the many advantages it offers (ease of use, portability, simplicity, etc), but I've already invested a lot into the Steam VR/Vive ecosystem. I spent a lot of time, money, and effort getting that entire system setup in my living room in an attractive way. I ran the trackers' power cables through my walls, ran HDMI & USB 3.0 cables from my PC in my bedroom through the attic to my living room, and I even setup a stealthy remote workstation (24" monitor, keyboard, mouse) in a rolltop desk that connects to my desktop in my bedroom so that I can have easy access to my desktop while using it to play VR in my living room. If the Vive Cosmos could do both inside out tracking and Steam VR tracking, I would consider a $700 price tag. However, without any attractive features to justify that high cost, it would make much more sense for me to just invest in a cheap Windows Mixed Reality headset or a Rift S if I want the option of inside out tracking.
of course that will make it even more expensive though. and then you will also need to buy or source lighthouse based controllers. making it even more expensive.
@@wotever99ninynine Ya, I'm aware they are going to offer that option in the future, but like you said, paying even more to have that option doesn't make a lot of sense, especially when the inside out tracking doesn't work very well as it is.
Why is every manufacturer switching to halo style headbands? I am most likely going to purchase the original vive just because I want to use my Sennheiser HD650s with it.
Ok, i realize most think both Rift S and Index has better value than the cosmos, but i can get the Cosmos for the same price as the Rift S, is it worth it or not?
I have original Rift and i thought that the tracking and calibration issues will drive me nuts at some point. Then i got a Vive pro at the job. And Rift's issues in a walk in a park, comparing to Vive problems. There's a PERFECT room with 4 lighthouses, no reflective surfaces and stuff. The tracking is going nuts about 70% of the time. Like my hands sliding away to all sides, one time the entire enviroment even flipped upside down, today floor was like 4 meters underneath me and i had to distract my colleague just to test my stuff.
ah yes! thanks for the correction. and i believe wireless kits from now on will include the cosmos battery so the $60 adapter is only needed if you already own a wireless kit
@@tested I think the kit will be needed for all but the Vive from what I can see. The cable, clip, and pad, are unique to Vive, Vive Pro, and Cosmos. I tried my Vive Pro wireless kit with the Cosmos and everything worked, but the software was not updated yet, and I had a bigger battery (24W QC3 as well), so cheapskates(like myself) could probably get by with a little pad reusing all of the other parts from the Vive Pro wireless kit, but including the battery is not so bad as they cost at least ~$30 (third party). So In HTC terms, the kit is a steal :).
how is to play racing games? tha t would be nice to have some tips about motor sport games... I know is not too much the channel aim, but is equally an amazing subject.
I have heard it is not work the money that the Oculus Rift S is actually as good if not better and $300 less. so Why pay more when both work with Steam and Oculus has it own Eco System as well.
id love to see those controllers working with steam VR, especially for games im running through revive it would be a nice set of controllers to have work with my base stations
ABSO-FRICKIN-LUTLY, it has gotten SO much better since launch to the point where it holds up to the rift s. And you get the added bonus of an ipd adjuster, multiple much better screens, and... its a really dope looking headset. I like color.
@@thatguypopcorn But it is so over priced compared to the rift s. And the rift S is better no matter what tracking wise. I ended up buying the Cosmos, and returning it for a Vive Pro and finally bough a valve index. The pro and the index blow away the Cosmos for not much more $$$
@@ruitcys Yeah, i do wish i bought an index but i'm just trynna let people know that its not as bad as people think and can be really good in some ways.
@@thatguypopcorn No for sure I agree, it's not as bad as what you can read on Reddit or hear in older review videos. But given the choice between the Cosmos and Rift S, Vive Pro, Index no one should recommend the Cosmos. Only reason why someone would buy it would be availability over the other models. UNLESS the price drops, right now it's just doesn't make sense to buy a Cosmos.
@@ruitcys Availability and stupidity were why i bought the cosmos, see i didn't want to put base station up so i wanted an inside out tracking headset and the rift s wasn't in stock soo i got the cosmos. But i just wish i wasn't scared of the base stations, but too late now. EDIT: But looking on the bright side of things, i can say for certain that the cosmos has a EXCELLENT screen.
i had a sneaking suspicion with the camera placement on the cosmos it would have a blindspot in the one place i dont want a blindspot (holding two handed guns and aiming down sights).. so this is actually far far worse for me than windows mr... which is not great but i can get the controllers far closer to headset and keep tracking. also i very rarely if ever notice controller tracking loss from occluding each other. strange that the cosmos is sooo bad at that. this really sucks... oh well. hopefully there will either be a wmr 2.0 or a rift s 2.0... i dont want lighthouse style tracking. i just want inside out tracking at least equal to rift s but with higher resolution displays and 90hz... i would have gone for the rift s ages ago if it wasnt lower resolution and fps than my lenovo explorer. htc is screwed... i dont think anyone but sim racers are going to buy that headset.... its just soooo bad.. i mean, 6 cameras? and they left a blind spot so first person shooters are unplayable? are you kidding me? what idiot designed this.. i just dont understand.. the headset isnt the only thing at htc with blind spots... how could they be so blind to what the customer wants...jeeze.
@@rumbleizer it was not an english essay, it was a youtube comment. you didnt have to read it if it was really that bad for you............ . . . . . .... ... .... ....
Hi ! I was hoping that colorful passtrought will save cosmos with some AR + fingertracking cool mode, but with this quality doesn`t look like it even sens to do that . Thanks for a great video , much appreciate like always : ) Cheers guys !
I own the htc Vive cosmos, controllers last about 4 hours each but can stretch to a week if you use one double a battery and a recharable one in both. It kinda sucks and can be annoying at times but it’s better than nothing. I wish I would’ve waited to see if I could afford the valve at the time but since there was a sale I brought it out of a must have right now impulse buy. I really wish I waited but hey it’s better than nothing.
Vive, Vive Pro and Index obviously. You can't occlude the hardware and the tracking resolution is far below sub-mm. It uses IR lazers that sweep the room where the Almost impossible to lose tracking in a steamvr lighthouse environment. WMR are the worst, and oculus is next worst. Both of those products have issues with occlusion and tracking resolution.
Thanks for the Review ! Just like I assumed: Rift S w/ 5 cameras (and Quest w/ 4) will out perform Cosmos w/ 6 cameras. HTC just can't compete with the talent at Oculus/FB; Oculus has some of the best Computer Vision engineers in the biz. And the prediction algorithms made Oculus Insight literally magical (Black Magic !)
Oculus is on a whole other level of inside-out tracking accuracy, not a fair comparison. Cosmos can't even compare to the worst WMR kit at $150. Cosmos is DOA garbage.
thanks for upload and solid review. I think I'm going to go with windows mixed reality or oculus s. This doesn't seem to add any more to those experiences and costs double.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Honestly just drop an extra 300 for the index or save 300 and get oculus
This is really looking like the two good options for VR right now if you want a good experience.
or wait and hope for something identical to the rift s but with higher resolution and refresh rate screens. thats what im doing. otherwise nothing is good enough and cheap enough to upgrade from my wmr yet.
@@wotever99ninynine True, you may be waiting for a year or two though. Not much of anything is coming out anytime soon. Even Abrash had removed his time-line for another Rift, hinting that it will basically never happen since Facebook will be dismantled and Oculus sold away by the time they could start building another Rift.
@@wotever99ninynine I prefer my Rift S far more then my Odyssey+. Unless the IPD dosen't work for you or you play exclusively dark games (something like Elite Dangerous) and really want those black levels, I'd recommended the Rift S over any WRM headset in 2019.
Both have pros and cons but these three thing do it for me:
1. Screen sharpness
2. Bigger sweet spot
3. better tracking
@@sqlevolicious yeah, i hope not... daaamn yo... im not interested in a quest. i want a decent rift s successor.
You forgot the secret feature it has. The front part can be used as a pasta drainer.
lmao
Get this for pasta drainer. And the mac pro case to grate Parmesan onto your pasta
@@deekay336 Cook sauce & pasta with Intel CPU beforehand.
James Yang agreed
You forgot the secret feature it HAS*. The front part CAN* be USED* as a pasta drainer.
Turns out the secret feature was correct grammar.
Tried it for four days and wanted to like it sooo much. Tracking was really bad and just made it frustrating. Sent it back already.
I think people would be better off with windowsMR. The tracking is not great but it's also less than $200 so it's excusable.
@@prismglider5922 Honestly if you're going for an inside-out headset I don't think anything beats the Rift S as it is now in terms of bang for buck.
@@gdot1803 I have an odyssey plus and was looking for a tracking upgrade. this wasnt it!
they must have a whole warehouse full of returns by now... this has got to be one of the most failed launches of any hardware in history... 6 cameras and they left a blindspot so you cant play first person shooters.. unbelievable.. its really looking worse than my wmr for tracking. and i am actually being serious there. it actually does look worse...
@@dmacell4110 Yup, go for a Rift S then, I found the Rift S does far batter than my O+, but still nothing as close to as good as the Index is.
One would think those massive controllers would be easy to track lol.
Stupid tracking implementation is the problem. HTC just has no idea what they are doing.
As your GF says, its not the size that matters. Its what you do with it.
@@sqlevolicious All HMDs with inside out tracking suck equally, it has nothing to do with HTC and everything to do with no static external frame of reference.
Jonn the rift s did pretty good
Jonn In terms of tracking at lesst
21:07 yeah I feel like that's the point "the competitors don't have to make money with it" Facebook & Oculus undersell massively and Valve goes balls to the wall with the hardware and sells it at cost, HTC just gets lost in the middle.
Comander555666 maybe. But as long as the prices are they way they are right now it will stay niche, we need more manufacturers competing to get more people to buy it at a lower price
Chicken and egg issue
Cosmos is such a fail by HTC. That controller tracking at the 699 asking price is criminal. "HTC said they plan on improving the tracking in future software updates"... I wish them good luck with that strategy.
It's the same issue the psvr camera tracking, if I aimed down a gun on psvr the tracking gets all wonky because all of the sensors are in front of each other. This is definitely not being fixed with software updates
I will say they have stuck to that and are improving the tracking, sure it still is sup-optimal but within 1 update it is about 4x better.
@@tapwater3577 how would you say it is now?
@@bryce5527 still absolute garbage
i honestly hate HTC and will never buy anything from a chinese front again
How odd, HTC did a side step. I'm very disappointed.
Oculus and Valve are the ones with a promising future in VR for the time being.
thats not a sidestep.. oculus did a side step. htc did a back step.
@@wotever99ninynine XD
@@wotever99ninynine Facebook lost their entire Oculus team so they opted to buy a kit from another company due to having to scrap Brandon Iribe's half-dome project (Rift S is a Lenovo product, not Oculus), so technically Oculus did nothing, they are just providing a third-party kit.
@@sqlevolicious true, although the screen was from the oculus go. but yeah, lenovo made it huh. i can see the similarites. i just wish they hadnt been so damn cheap and put a better screen/ screens in it. i do like the tracking technology though. they did well.
they should have released this one for less money, and an identical one with better screen/s for a hundred or so more or something. if they can sell the far more complicated and expensive quest with all its extra parts for the same price as the rift s, they could definitely afford to make the rift s a bit better.. great for entry level pcvr. not the upgrade path existing pcvr users were expecting though..
they should do like the ps4 and ps4 pro. make a rift s and rift s pro. same but with higher resolution 90hz screens. that would be awesome. especially since it appears we might be waiting a while for a true next gen rift or anything resembling the 'half dome' prototype etc etc.
The Quest is still my pick of all headsets currently. It may not be the most premium VR experience, but the bang for buck ratio beats everything else.
Quest is great for sure and probably the best for the vast majority. I still love my wireless Vive though. It's pricey and lacks mobility, but the tracking is so nice in games like beat saber and I do enjoy games like Skyrim and Fallout (perhaps with the the link cable coming for the quest this point will be moot soon).
PuddleDrops the quest will be the ultimate choice once link comes out!
Quest is black magic amazing. But it can't compare to the Index experience. So you need to get both!
@@SegginsProductions I disagree, there are too many inherent issues with streaming VR over usb3, Norm mentioned he didn't notice much when he got a tiny bit of time to use it, but I think with more time, you would notice the 35ms of latency very easily.
EVOLICIOUS possibly, I'm still looking forward to seeing if they can pull it off though!
Wow the dead zones make this headset absolutely useless for me.
agreed. i only sim race and play first person shooters. if i cant play a first person shooter this aint for me. unbelievable. 6 cameras and you cant hold a two handed weapon up to your face.. what games did they think we play? what tracking did they think we need? i just cant comprehend this one.
I was about to get one. But after seeing reviews I got the rift s and am surprised how good the tracking is.
You made the right choise, i have seen other reviews of the cosmos and i can say that Norm went soft on it. The headset is awfully bad it seems
@@mli3793 I was blow away on the tracking playing Sairento a game where one of your weapons is on your lower back and I can grab it with no problems that's impressive for inside out tracking.
Same here, i waited for the Cosmos, almost pre-ordered...if i wouldn´t be used to be disappointed so often by the gaming industry these days, so i thought that will probably happen with the Cosmos as well, didn´t really thought i´d be right with my choice to wait for reviews before buying. So well...my OCULUS RIFT-S arrived on friday, HTC is gone for now, i am afraid, for that price-class, the Cosmos-Reviews are kinda...well....TERRIBLE.
Yeah, you might not like facebook, but they know what they're doing. I'm actually glad facebook bought oculus, they're going in a way better direction.
Rift S is a bad choice. Should have got the quest lmao oof.
Norm: best VR reviewer out there. Norm is the norm!👍
Thank you for the honest review. Definitely not buying that shit.
Lol
the tracking is soooo bad with the Cosmos that it shouldn't be released, the only 1 tracking issue I have with my Rift s is sometimes when you put 1 controller in front of he other for a long period of time
I have not had a lot of issues. It's not super precise, but not bad.
Didn't Rift S also have this issue on release?
@@MrMiddleWick Rift S had issues but Oculus also has the prowess to fix them too. Yes HTC will improve the tracking but I don't think they have the ability to surpass Oculus for inside-out tracking quality. Oculus has some of the best computer vision programmers in the industry.
Thank you for the honest review of the new headset Norm. I am still drooling over the Valve Index and want to get one in the future.
Do it! Worth every penny!
This is pretty much the final nail in HTC's consumer VR coffin.
this is a sub 500 headset with the garbage inside out tracking....Theyre just trying to cash grab off the original vive name
@@thebubba1 I'm looking at getting a VR headset for the first time, should i get the OG vive vr or is it bad to todays standards?
@@mastersquishy2388 I vote quest
MasterSquishy23 Rift S/Quest/Valve Index is where it’s at
Rift S is really good for pc already but the quest can do standalone vr and soon link to pc as well... but comfort might be worse - valve index is the highest end Headset you can get - no compromises
@@ThunderDraws yeah i've looked at quest, but my computer is pretty decent, and i dont wanna waste it. and i cant afford valve index, let alone its not avalable in australia, and idk if my pc is good enough to run valve index. so its either rift S or OG vive. i would usually run towards the rift s, considering its cheaper, and its way better performance wise, but idk if i wanna ditch steam for the oculus store. it doesnt have as much games on it.
5 steps forward, 10 steps back
Doesn't seem like any steps forward. Feels more like a kit that would have been made before all other kits before the industry has learned what makes a good VR experience.
You only moved that way because of the horrible tracking.
More like 1 step forward, 9999999999999 steps back
1 step forward only for the comfort and the lift up design.
@@sqlevolicious They're the only people who learned that glasses users are a significant portion of their market.
Fantastic review, Norm. Projections is always so good.
Hello everyone, I own the vive cosmos since 2019. And from the past it had a lot of terrible tracking experience. But the good news that they fixed the tracking A LOT Better now! I still won't really recommend this headset yet but it's good to know that the vive staffs are fixing the issues with the headset. I had less issues then I had from the past and this headset is great if your playing some casual games but if your playing big movement type of game then that gonna be the issue. I didn't return the headset back because I had good feelings that some day it's gonna get a lot better.
I can second this
Cute dig at WMR. Using a Samsung Odyssey+ and having the time of my life -- in fact I enjoy it more than my original Rift by a fair margin. Only paid $200 too!
the rift is miles better then the odyssey in every way, Im calling fake news on your comment. i had an odyssey for one day and returned it, the rift is a thousand times better. the only time i could see it as an improvement over the rift is if your only using it for racing and flight sims. even then its so unconfortable
@@davemay7797 I mean it's what they enjoy, it's just an opinion
Well, the best options for someone looking for a PC HMD are really simple and boiled down now!
Do you want the best for gaming (best picture, best tracking, best controller, mod support, and room for future features) at a premium price? - Valve Index.
Or do you want a fantastic middle of the road PC VR experience that is easier to set up and a more affordable price? - Rift S or Quest, depending on how much you value using a VR standalone device for when you leave your computer room.
or if you dont mind tracking of controllers being a bit worse and want a slightly higher resolution display and slightly higher refresh rate than rift s, and want to save even more money, wmr. but yeah. rift s and index are definitely the two main pcvr players. i guess quest with the link cable now fits in there somewhere too.
@@wotever99ninynine Yeah you have a valid point. I see why a pure flight sim or racing sim guy might pick Odyssey+ over Rift S.
Who else is here because Facebook the owners of Oculus decided to shoot themselves in the foot.
precisely lmfao.. oculus could have done so much and facebook ruined it lmfao
yes, facebook ruined the party
This aged poorly
@@BlitzStudiosIsinsideyourhome why?
@@izzydrycow Because the quest 2 sold as much as the psvr in a short amount of time
7:50 on pixel fill, the ifixit tear down found the index uses a crystal glass diffusion layer to help prevent screen door effect
you do good reviews can you get answers from Valve as to why the Index can not be purchased in Canada/Australia etc
Phil Kuffner yeah this goes ignored, time after time. There are ways to buy them using vpns, and shipping companies like comgateway but that means no warranty. They really should state usa only or not include as an available option.
I'd like to know why no Index too. Australia is an ocean away but Canada?
@@thenic123 its the only VR headset you cant get here even the Reverb relented and sells in Canada now
Someone from these youtube tech channels or another tech website needs to ask Valve why the Index isn't available to Australia, Canada and other countries that have missed out. It should have been available by now. Even Linus Sebastian had to use an unorthodox method to obtain an Index to Canada and he's well known in the tech segment
You know it's going to be bad when the other competing headsets are placed on the table together with it.
That doesn't really make sense.
@@gurikasemit They never did that before from what I recall. Usually tested focuses entirely on the headset that is in the review. Now it is more like "look at this freak! These two are normal healthy headsets, but this is just an abomination".
You know it's going to be compared to other similar VR products*
I wonder if they put the front cameras more to the sides instead of trying to make them look like eyes if that would have helped the tracking. And if it's for passthrough, but the passthrough isn't great, _and_ you can flip up the HMD anyway, what was the point?
yeah, or put the side cameras further back and angled them forwards. or just didnt recess all the damn cameras.. why did they do that? and the lip on the edge to block cameras view? why not round the corners? they have the most perfect blind spot ive ever seen. right where my right hand would be when holding a rifle. and since when im in vr im either holding a virtual rifle or a real wheel. this headset is of no use to me. at least half of my vr is first person shooter based. its the only truly immersive and fun way to play vr. htc are as blind as their headset is proving to be.
Ehhh, seems like they're trying to reinvent the wheel a little, should have stayed with steam VR and Lighthouse.
@Guybrush Threepwood This is not new tech. WindowsMR used this tracking, but it did it better. Besides, there is already a better version of this tracking made by Oculus. HTC tried to do what other companies already did, and failed horribly because they didn't understand why it worked for them. Microsoft got away with bad tracking because the headsets were so cheap and higher resolution at the time. Oculus got inside out tracking perfect with infrared. They've royally messed up on both accounts
@Guybrush Threepwood They didn't move forward at all, they performed more of a side step.
They were ahead of the curb with their Lighthouse tracking. Their lighthouses were non cpu intensive and allowed tracked accessories.
They could have expanded on that but instead they ditched it for a worse performing interface.
@@prismglider5922 He meant new tech as in came out in the last decade, as opposed to 'reinventing the wheel' where you are reinventing something that has been successful for thousands of years.
@@SimplestUsername Those lighthouses were Valve's tech. When they ended business with Valve they lost the rights to use lighthouses in any future projects. That is why Index has Lighthouse 2.0 instead of HTC.
@@SimplestUsername I take good inside-out tracking over having to setup lighthouses every day. Imagine the hassle bringing a Vive to a friend. Inside-out is easy, mobile and in case of Oculus works extremely well. All manufacturers will hopefully move in that direction with the next set of devices.
I agree with all of this and I've been using this new headset since the 3rd . Also if you change the room around you need to remap the room setup. Including making and in making your bed if your bed takes more then 25% of your room .
Return it, save $300 more and get an Index. You won't regret it!
It loses the room config if you make your bed? Lmao that's so bad
@@roflBeck it losses tracking if you change a big part of the room . But you can just set the room up again and it works fine untill 20-40% of the room changes or moves
Finally an honest review and non sell out.. Great vid!!!
I'm with Valve on this one. Overall their business is just more in line with what I believe and the kind of future I want to live in.
I can see Oculus selling my data/ adding ads everywhere as soon as they take control of the market. Vive isn't a gaming juggernaut, them trying to make their own store for games and the whole subscription thing is stupid in my view.
Lol Valve is just as much of an evil monopolistic tech giant as the rest of them... The reality distortion field around Lord Gaben is ridiculous. You're fucking NUTS if you don't think all your Steam data isn't worth $$$ to Valve. Also, how's that treating you now? Valve doesn't give a flying FUCK about VR anymore. (See Steam Deck & OS).
incredible that it was launched that way, what were they expecting...
Videos such as these make me realise how far we are away from VR being "dead" :)
And now Half-Life Alyx is bringing in so many people who previously didn't care like myself.
It reminds me how far away from good vr we are. It's been 7 years now and 4k still isn't a thing.
@@xGaLoSx think about 4K vr, you have to have a really expensive pc and then you gotta buy that vr headset which would be a lot more because it’s “4K” it wouldn’t get many sales because nobody
can really run 4k with vr
I tested the Cosmos as well and I really don't like it. Tracking is bad, FOV is small, game support is bad and of course it's much too expensive, Display is good though.
I bet HTC thought that the price was good because how expensive the Index is. The overall experience I've had has not been too bad. A rocky start with the tracking, but the update helped. The halo strap really should go down further in the head though. Would make it more comfortable. The visuals are quite good, with great colors and blacks, but the box where things are in focus is not as large as it could be.
@@aquaticborealis4877 Index is a very good price for what you get, it definitely makes the Rift S seem overpriced. The Cosmos though, I wouldn't pay a penny more than $200 for that kit since even the Lenovo Explorer that is $150 and is pretty similar.
@@sqlevolicious
The Rift S is great headset for $400. The clarity you get that's comparable to a $1000 headset is amazing. Tracking isn't the same but Oculus did a great job improving it and it plays good with games in the Oculus store. WMR headsets might be cheaper but they don't track as well as the Rift S and get constant updates to work better.
What is the name of the game or app seen at 9:11 ?
Oculus Quest user here. I really like what Oculus is doing with their tracking system. I recently got a cheap HP Windows headset just to test out some stuff on PC, and with on two cameras in the front the tracking on WMR is really limited, basically when playing Beat Saber if a note is sliced outside of your own FOV then it's pretty much based on luck. But at least within the player's FOV the tracking is not too bad. I'm quite surprised by how badly HTC has implemented inside-out, hopefully they manage to fix it soon.
I was looking forward to the Cosmos but it feels like it fell short of its goals. I recently got a Rift S and the tracking has been excellent. Archery works very well and I can anchor an arrow to my cheek just like I do in real life without issues. Before this, I had a WMR Lenovo Explorer. Its tracking was good, just very limited due to only 2 cameras, but it was still an excellent inexpensive on-ramp to VR. The RIft S controllers are small (which is good for my small hands) and the headset still fits a petite head with a minimal gap around the nose. I am glad I got the Rift S instead.
The Oculus Rift S touch controlers, the price, softwares and most of all, amazing lenses...makes it the obvious choice IMHO...i love mine.
Everything exept for the audio is good...i used to have a CV1 for over a year before the S and it's worth every penny sell your
CV1 and get the upgrade i'd say. Gone are the god rays, and the pixels are much tighter togheter making it a lot cleaner.
BUT: 80hz vs 90hz i don't notice the difference...but 40FPS vs 45FPS is another story...the cv1 was playable at 45 FPS in many situations...but
the 40FPS on the Rift S feel aweful.
@Cole Park Try the ksc75 mod for 20$, you can mount these even without a 3d printer and the sound is better than the cv1 imo. The biggest downside for me is probably the headset shaking when you play some beat saber songs.
Anyone know what game he is playing at 6:52 ? It looks like he is standing in an elevator and shooting down a long hallway?
Pavlov!
What would happen if you got different controllers? Would the tracking still be frustrating?
No other controller works with it.
The old Vive controllers need lighthouse tracking, and the Oculus controllers are obviously unique to that platform.
Steel Tarkus would it still be frustrating though?
thom boy ok thx
Yeah... preety much the same as other reviews. Even if they fix the tracking with software update, it's not worth the extra 300$ over the rift S.
The only problem people might have with the rift S is the IPD limitation, but most people will be fine
I bought a Vive Pro instead of this, that way i can get wireless, and index controllers. With proper room scale tracking
Looked up “quality control” in the dictionary...... yep, still there 👀
🤣
lol
I've been waiting for the right headset for so long now. Bought my VR ready PC in 2016, and...RIFT S has the IPD adjustment problem (it's devastating, been following the development of Oculus rift since the beginning but my Eyes are really close, 57 mm.)
Seriously I don't mind the cameras on the wall...
I think I'll get the Vive.
I just hoped for an upgrade in resolution.
(and sadly with life happening, can't afford the Index)
Leave this on the spinning display wheel htc trotted out 6 months ago.
And once more I'm glad I bought my Rift S,
Thank you for the great review!
Good choice. Oculus seems to give the most bang for the buck, and they're product are some of the most "polished" IMO. They look lean, and are built well. All while being cheap.
It just felt right with the Oculus S. Great timing, great price and good performance. best overall in my opinion.
Requiring light is a deal breaker for many inside-out tracking headsets. Being able to play in the dark is something many people don't realize they need, and is something many reviewers don't mention.
When you're in VR playing intensive games, you get tired and sweat *a lot*. Not gonna lie, most of the time I just play with my tighty-whiteys on. So when you're playing at night and want to open the windows to the widest, being able to play in the dark is a massive pro. Unless you don't mind being naked in your brightly lit room in the middle of the night with the windows open, if that's your thing.
So, so glad I got the Index instead of waiting for this. My VR journey: Rift DK2, Vive1, Vive-Pro, Odyssey, then Index. Index is by FAR my favorite (and I love the controllers, even with some of the known issues). Since I already had Vive lighthouses, I didn't need to buy them for the Index, and I use 3 light houses, which makes tracking AMAZING.
I will be keeping the Index until we get a true gen2 or gen3 HMD.
My brother is deadset on the Vive brand, we're getting the Cosmos for Christmas. I'm going to try it and hope it works out. If it doesn't, HTC has a pretty decent refund policy, so we'll do that and either get a Rift S or save $300 for an Index.
I love my HP WMR headset. I've bought two and they've been great for toting out to the nicest and the nephews. The lack of sentinel towers to set up makes it a breeze. The Quest appears to be a good value for the same reason especially considering that soon you can play pc games through USB as well as controller free literal hand tracking makes it a sight to behold. I'm more than a little concerned about the it's processor/gpu and storage buy hey since you will soon be able to play through USB I see no reason they couldn't a make beefier device to run the headset via USB that you could wear.
Has the Cosmos improved? Im looking at getting my first VR headset and have know clue which to pick 😭
Just don’t get the cosmos, the s is better, and $300 cheaper.
If you have $1000 to spend, get the index, it’s amazing
The only other real options you have are the rift s and the quest. Same price but the s is slightly better as a desktop only headset.
With a $20 cable you can turn the quest into a desktop headset and the only difference is the comfort is slightly worse, and the screen is slightly less clear around the edges, (and you lose 8fps)
But the quest of course also is a standalone headset if you want to play less intensive games easily and wire free.
And if you have a 5ghz router tham you can use the quest to play wireless on your computer
Tldr:
Don’t get cosmos
Index if your rich
Rift s for best cheaper desktop experience
Quest for wireless standalone and possible wireless desktop, along with wired desktop
Thanks guys 😁
Sadly no. The problem seems to be hardware related. They used color cameras when they should have used IR like the Rift.
Get the Rift S instead, save some money.
How do you get the correct controllers to show up in SteamVR? It shows Vive controllers when I am using SteamVR.
I bought the cosmos and it’s great
Nice another person to join the Motion squad! (Motion as in cosmos motion, i just call it that so that you can distinguish it better from the other cosmos's)
Shut up the cosmos is good
Thank you once again for this professional and honest review.
The Cosmos is garbage, it doesn't bring any innovation to the market and it doesn't even catch up to the competitors. I hope this is the final nail in the coffin of HTC. Let them die and rest in peace, they're hurting the VR market more than they're helping it.
Looking forward to Tested's review on Oculus Link next month. I'm really not a fan of the Rift-S but I still want to upgrade my old CV1...
thats a negative outlook. how are they hurting the market? the more the merrier. cosmos is definitley overpriced garbage though. tbh even at half the price its still garbage. im sticking to my lenovo explorer wmr. which is widely considered garbage. but its now got a bit of a glean to it. looks a bit better now...
@@wotever99ninynine I have an explorer, it's amazing kit for only $150. I have so many friends that have bought it and been very satisfied with it, most of them have moved onto the Rift S or Index now and still look back to the Explorer as a great VR device to start with.
@@wotever99ninynine "the more, the merrier": say that to the people whose parties turned out tragic because some mad people invited themselves xD.
We don't need more options, we need more GOOD options. The Cosmos is not good. Most WMR options were not good (but they did bring inside-out tracking to life, so I'm kinda glad Microsoft released them). The Vive Focus was not good.
I do regard the Vive and Vive Pro as good competitors and headsets, but in terms of engineering they're so damn bad (the controllers, the weight repartition, the software, all this is screwed up on Vive's side).
More good options make the market evolve. More options at all just *breaks the market* and slows it down. It's not something that a baby market like VR can afford, in my opinion.
But, things will turn out the way they turn out I guess... At least, if HTC does disappear, I won't feel sad xD.
@@Dante02d12 well, if it wasn't for wmr I wouldn't have gotten into vr at all. Everything else was just too expensive. And even now I'm not sure I would have bought a rift s if I didn't already have vr. Still just too expensive, especially outside the US. Sure the Cosmos is trash. But for me at least, they were heading in the right direction. It was exactly what I wanted. Clearly it didn't turn out that way. I firmly believe after watching this video, even my cheap wmr tracks better than the Cosmos, at least for my use case (fps games). But you are right, we don't need more of the same, we need some actual good headsets. Like the rift s with a higher resolution and refresh rate. Call it the rift s pro or something. I would strongly consider buying that if the price was right.
@@wotever99ninynine I feel you, buddy ^^. Personally, I think 500$ is the maximum price point. It's the price of a console, but VR offers so much more than games as it changes absolutely every type of software. It can literally serve as 3D goggles and a home cinema (Virtual Desktop, for example, does both these features).
I was really mad at Oculus when they released the CV1 for 700$ (or was it 600$? can't remember, it's a nightmare from a distant past xD), it was just too much.
The Cosmos with the wireless module seems to be the best VR for a wheelchair bound paraplegic. Wireless keeps wires from getting tangled in the chair, and inside out tracking seems ideal since a paraplegic may not be able to reach up to properly mount lighthouses. What are your thoughts?
Get a quest
Vive or vive pro with wireless adapter works just fine. Also, Get a Quest.
Yup get a quest
I really don't understand why they didn't use IR for the controllers. And then having a button on the grip seems like they're just not keeping with the times.
i might be picking one up for cyber monday or christmas,does anybody know if its actually worth it,and when htc might be releasing updates to fix the issues it has with tracking?
no please save yourself
The tracking is terrible even in bright rooms, it has the worst tracking of any VR headset on the market.Later down the road you can upgrade it to use SteamVR lighthouse tracking, but that will cost extra and at that point you might as well get an Index.
@@danielcook8776 s just go with the basic vive instead then?
@@marnix484 Honestly, I'd get Rift S. It's cheaper than both the original Vive and the Cosmos. It has very good inside-out tracking, and ergonomic controllers. The only thing the Cosmos has over the Rift S is the resolution (Cosmos has the highest resolution of any consumer VR headset on the market) but that doesn't matter since the tracking is all over the place and jittery. Also when using a Rift S you have easy access to all Oculus exclusive games, in addition to all SteamVR games.
@@danielcook8776 alrigt
The biggest problem I'm seeing is tracking. Is the tracking REALLY bad or is it just a minor annoyance/inconvenience?
Your question had probably already been answered but i'd say it can be both. It all depends on your setup, which is kinda stupid since inside out tracking headsets are supposed to stop complex setup. I like my Cosmos and the tracking is definitely getting better but at this state, it can be both.
Regarding the beginning of the video about VR 2.0 I feel it's as silly as talking about Monitors 2.0. There's not going to be a "singularity" of a new device which marks the beginning of a new generation. Headsets will get incrementally stronger in various ways and there's always going to be compromises which discredit the next latest and greatest headset from being a market leader in every aspect.
there is actually. screen resolution is important. and can already be done today.. if you have a supercomputer to run it.. you are right. just having higher resolution screens will not make it vr 2.0.. but having working eye tracking based foveated rendering will be vr 2.0. it will allow for much much much higher resolution screens on current hardware and current cable bandwidth. on top of that variable focus like halfdome could also be considered vr2.0 as its actually a proper change in hardware. not just an increase in screen resolution or fov or refresh rate, lense quality etc.
and there is no denying that if a headset came out with all of these it would be considered 'next gen'. they call each new conosole next gen. even though its always just the same thing but with modern higher performance hardware. why should vr headsets be any different. 'next gen' is a casual term people throw around all the time. it has no 'real' fixed meaning. its open to interpretation. i agree with norms wording on the subject. none of these hmds are next gen. its not until a true and obvious game changing advancement comes along i would label it 'next gen'. as i said, eye tracking based foveated rendering, combined with high resolution displays would be an example of that. it could enable retina level fideltiy.
@Cole Park hmmm. it looks like htc vive pro eye has found a way to massively reduce the overhead of using eye tracking + foveated rendering by using variable rate shading supported on rtx gpus (lucky me, i have one of those).
they were able to super sample to 9x the screen resolution.. thats insane. so we are definitely well on our way. and they have the working bmw demo for it.
here are some links:
developer.nvidia.com/vrworks/graphics/variablerateshading
zerolight.com/news/tech/foveated-rendering-on-the-vive-pro-eye
it looks like we are already there. the first versions of eye tracking plus foveated rendered headsets with high resolution screens could be just over the horizon... if only they made them... we will probably still be waiting a long time. but its clear if they wanted to. they could. you just need an rtx gpu though.
it can probably be done alot better with improved pipelines like you said, like abrash said. but there is no reason not to make generation 1 eye tracked/ foveated rendering headsets now. bringing current versions to the consumers would be the first step. without it we dont have the incentive or the demand for hardware and software engineers to get together and make proper dedicated pipelines for it. someone has to make the first move.
i almost want even just that pro eye after reading that article.. even just at that resolution 9x super sampling sounds like a pretty clear picture.
please someone try thinner front pads on the cosmos, maybe even with rubber bands holding visor closer and tighter to face. its how i use my lenovo explorer wmr, and its how i would use the cosmos if i got one. it should improve or even fix any sweet spot/ fov/ clarity complaints.
Would like to see a review if you have updated to the beta version of firmware. Some ppl says it made quite improvement on tracking
would it be worth it just get the valve index controllers if I have the htc vive?
Very honest review. I agree that the price point is the problem. Some issues may be solved with future upgrades (e.g. controllers tracking), but 700$ as a base price is a bit too much IMHO. Maybe $550 would have been the sweet spot for this device
@13 min, how to do they do that? Did they not test games? @16 min, for $700 you’d think hand presence would be a little better, esp with the new index
Thanks for the great review. I'm ready to buy a VR headset/setup. I won't buy Oculus because they are owned by FB and even require a FB login to play.
HTC Vibe used and Cosmos are the ones I'm considering. Valve is a bit more than I'm willing to spend since I had to upgrade my PC to handle VR.
This video helped me understand the VR ecosystem though I still have a lot to learn.
I'm bidding on a VIVE Pro on eBay that I'm hoping to get.
Hi! I'm planning on buying a VR headset for archviz work and I'm deciding between an HTC Vive or a Oculus. I have a Macbook pro 16inch with 64gb ram and a 5600m 8gb graphics card, and would be running bootcamp. Would you have any recommendation of one or the other? thanks!
get a quest 2, you can do wireless pcvr via virtual desktop
Amazing review my dude! wow!
im in the market for a vr headset, i basically do not have a budget limit, i'm running a 2080 ti, what would you reccomend me to get i have 0 knowledge and there are so many options
I recommend you do some research on what best fits you maybe search about vr headsets like the valve index etc and see some reviews and try to pick the one that may be for you
@@CookiesMan80 yeah i like the valve index so far, i play virtually al of my games on steam too
my question. now they came out with wireless adapter has that improved the tracking, if anbody has bought this with wireless adapter, let me know, from anyone,
The wireless adapter doesn't really affect the tracking, only the sensors do.
Gotta love the vive. I love it's hand tracking and the fact that if you don't want to stay plugged in and play PCVR, you can unplug it and use it as it's own system! So amazing that it does that because I.... Wait... Oh... crap. Sorry. That's Quest. But it's cool if people like paying twice as much for half the usability.
I have a Quest, as well as many other VR kits. Quest is cool, but it's still not even remotely as good as any PC-VR system.
On the resolution comparison, you omitted the Rift S and it having only 2560x1440 versus the Cosmos 2880x1700. You didn't talk about how it compared with the Rift S res, which would have been more useful than discussing the Valve Index's(which naturally has very similar resolution and self-evident that it'd not be particularly noticeable).
Disappointing to say the least. Even discounting the problems with tracking and such, it just doesn't make a lot of sense from any perspective. Being an owner of the original Vive myself, I can confidently say it doesn't make sense as an upgrade path. For almost the same price, I can get a new Valve Index headset and Valve Index controllers. One way I think HTC could have made this a much more attractive prospect was if it had both inside out tracking AND compatibility with Steam VR tracking. My predicament at the moment is that I would love to have the choice of using inside out tracking for the many advantages it offers (ease of use, portability, simplicity, etc), but I've already invested a lot into the Steam VR/Vive ecosystem. I spent a lot of time, money, and effort getting that entire system setup in my living room in an attractive way. I ran the trackers' power cables through my walls, ran HDMI & USB 3.0 cables from my PC in my bedroom through the attic to my living room, and I even setup a stealthy remote workstation (24" monitor, keyboard, mouse) in a rolltop desk that connects to my desktop in my bedroom so that I can have easy access to my desktop while using it to play VR in my living room. If the Vive Cosmos could do both inside out tracking and Steam VR tracking, I would consider a $700 price tag. However, without any attractive features to justify that high cost, it would make much more sense for me to just invest in a cheap Windows Mixed Reality headset or a Rift S if I want the option of inside out tracking.
it does. for a cost. they are going to sell a faceplate to support lighthouse based tracking.
of course that will make it even more expensive though. and then you will also need to buy or source lighthouse based controllers. making it even more expensive.
@@wotever99ninynine yup i was going to say the same thing. At that point may as well buy an index
@@wotever99ninynine Ya, I'm aware they are going to offer that option in the future, but like you said, paying even more to have that option doesn't make a lot of sense, especially when the inside out tracking doesn't work very well as it is.
Why is every manufacturer switching to halo style headbands? I am most likely going to purchase the original vive just because I want to use my Sennheiser HD650s with it.
Ok, i realize most think both Rift S and Index has better value than the cosmos, but i can get the Cosmos for the same price as the Rift S, is it worth it or not?
Nope. Cosmos is still the worst VR system to date.
I have original Rift and i thought that the tracking and calibration issues will drive me nuts at some point. Then i got a Vive pro at the job. And Rift's issues in a walk in a park, comparing to Vive problems. There's a PERFECT room with 4 lighthouses, no reflective surfaces and stuff. The tracking is going nuts about 70% of the time. Like my hands sliding away to all sides, one time the entire enviroment even flipped upside down, today floor was like 4 meters underneath me and i had to distract my colleague just to test my stuff.
The padding on the halo piece must not be right or it is loosing tightness. Leading to the front-end slipping down.
Question. If i have a rift touch should i upgrade to the rift s ?
Miss the old intro ),:
What vr do you guys think has the best tracking and graphics for the price?
Valve Index, without question.
The tracking in the rift s at first was unusable with things like drawing back bows but that has been fixed by now. This headset seems pointless.
Solid review as always. One correction on wireless ($300 base +$59 cosmos clip and cable) as opposed to $200+
ah yes! thanks for the correction. and i believe wireless kits from now on will include the cosmos battery so the $60 adapter is only needed if you already own a wireless kit
@@tested I think the kit will be needed for all but the Vive from what I can see. The cable, clip, and pad, are unique to Vive, Vive Pro, and Cosmos. I tried my Vive Pro wireless kit with the Cosmos and everything worked, but the software was not updated yet, and I had a bigger battery (24W QC3 as well), so cheapskates(like myself) could probably get by with a little pad reusing all of the other parts from the Vive Pro wireless kit, but including the battery is not so bad as they cost at least ~$30 (third party). So In HTC terms, the kit is a steal :).
What about for sim racer like me.
Would this be good?
If you just play sim racers you want the G2
I just ordered one yesterday
Toasty the Toaster fuck I feel sorry 4 u
KP Productions , why ?
@@mynameissaidbutucancallmeg9525 good question
9:23
Tracking review starts here.
how is to play racing games? tha t would be nice to have some tips about motor sport games... I know is not too much the channel aim, but is equally an amazing subject.
I have heard it is not work the money that the Oculus Rift S is actually as good if not better and $300 less. so Why pay more when both work with Steam and Oculus has it own Eco System as well.
id love to see those controllers working with steam VR, especially for games im running through revive it would be a nice set of controllers to have work with my base stations
not sure which mid range VR headset to get. I want one with thumbsticks with the controllers
Can you play the same games as people that have a vive headset vs the oculus rift s
Yes. Steamvr works naively with all VR hardware. It's only with non-oculus hardware that you need to use "Revive" to play oculus exclusive games.
Plz update this video the tracking is perfect now. -_-
Is the tracking improved ? I haven't seen any news since 6months regarding that
ABSO-FRICKIN-LUTLY, it has gotten SO much better since launch to the point where it holds up to the rift s. And you get the added bonus of an ipd adjuster, multiple much better screens, and... its a really dope looking headset. I like color.
@@thatguypopcorn But it is so over priced compared to the rift s. And the rift S is better no matter what tracking wise. I ended up buying the Cosmos, and returning it for a Vive Pro and finally bough a valve index. The pro and the index blow away the Cosmos for not much more $$$
@@ruitcys Yeah, i do wish i bought an index but i'm just trynna let people know that its not as bad as people think and can be really good in some ways.
@@thatguypopcorn No for sure I agree, it's not as bad as what you can read on Reddit or hear in older review videos. But given the choice between the Cosmos and Rift S, Vive Pro, Index no one should recommend the Cosmos. Only reason why someone would buy it would be availability over the other models. UNLESS the price drops, right now it's just doesn't make sense to buy a Cosmos.
@@ruitcys Availability and stupidity were why i bought the cosmos, see i didn't want to put base station up so i wanted an inside out tracking headset and the rift s wasn't in stock soo i got the cosmos. But i just wish i wasn't scared of the base stations, but too late now. EDIT: But looking on the bright side of things, i can say for certain that the cosmos has a EXCELLENT screen.
i had a sneaking suspicion with the camera placement on the cosmos it would have a blindspot in the one place i dont want a blindspot (holding two handed guns and aiming down sights).. so this is actually far far worse for me than windows mr... which is not great but i can get the controllers far closer to headset and keep tracking. also i very rarely if ever notice controller tracking loss from occluding each other. strange that the cosmos is sooo bad at that.
this really sucks...
oh well. hopefully there will either be a wmr 2.0 or a rift s 2.0... i dont want lighthouse style tracking. i just want inside out tracking at least equal to rift s but with higher resolution displays and 90hz... i would have gone for the rift s ages ago if it wasnt lower resolution and fps than my lenovo explorer.
htc is screwed... i dont think anyone but sim racers are going to buy that headset.... its just soooo bad.. i mean, 6 cameras? and they left a blind spot so first person shooters are unplayable? are you kidding me? what idiot designed this.. i just dont understand.. the headset isnt the only thing at htc with blind spots... how could they be so blind to what the customer wants...jeeze.
read up on what ellipses do please, this typing style is awful.
@@rumbleizer it was not an english essay, it was a youtube comment. you didnt have to read it if it was really that bad for you............ . . . . . .... ... .... ....
Hi ! I was hoping that colorful passtrought will save cosmos with some AR + fingertracking cool mode, but with this quality doesn`t look like it even sens to do that . Thanks for a great video , much appreciate like always : ) Cheers guys !
Saw this reveiw, decided to save up for vive pro 2 instead. thank you.
awesome! Gonna be saving up for this bad boy after I get my rig updated. :)
you should really get a valve index or rift s instead
Did you even watch the review?
I own the htc Vive cosmos, controllers last about 4 hours each but can stretch to a week if you use one double a battery and a recharable one in both. It kinda sucks and can be annoying at times but it’s better than nothing. I wish I would’ve waited to see if I could afford the valve at the time but since there was a sale I brought it out of a must have right now impulse buy. I really wish I waited but hey it’s better than nothing.
Which has best tracking behind head and how good/bad is it?
Vive, Vive Pro and Index obviously. You can't occlude the hardware and the tracking resolution is far below sub-mm. It uses IR lazers that sweep the room where the Almost impossible to lose tracking in a steamvr lighthouse environment. WMR are the worst, and oculus is next worst. Both of those products have issues with occlusion and tracking resolution.
The tracking now looks like the rift s with the Halloween update but now the tracking is very good
Thanks for the Review ! Just like I assumed: Rift S w/ 5 cameras (and Quest w/ 4) will out perform Cosmos w/ 6 cameras. HTC just can't compete with the talent at Oculus/FB; Oculus has some of the best Computer Vision engineers in the biz. And the prediction algorithms made Oculus Insight literally magical (Black Magic !)
apparently (based on my own use of wmr and all the cosmos reviews ive seen.) so will wmr with two cameras, lol. the cosmos is ridiculous.
How would you compare the tracking to the quest
Oculus is on a whole other level of inside-out tracking accuracy, not a fair comparison. Cosmos can't even compare to the worst WMR kit at $150. Cosmos is DOA garbage.
I have cosmos and quest and the quest has way less problems at lower light levels and I almost never have tracking issues with it
5:20 you said PS VR so I’m confused what you’re referring to on what other headset has no eye relief
The Cosmos doesn't have eye relief, the Rift S and PSVR does. He does say that, but it's getting hard to keep up with all these headset names.
He's talking about the ability to slide the lenses closer or further from your face. Only the rift s and PlayStation VR have this feature currently.
why don’t you review the Pimax headsets? I own a Pimax 5k + for sim racing and honestly it rocks!
thanks for upload and solid review. I think I'm going to go with windows mixed reality or oculus s. This doesn't seem to add any more to those experiences and costs double.