I think you are missing the point here, dude. Right now, there isn't a headseat that is best at more than one thing. You have the quest 2 that is best for price, but it is quite meh at the rest. You have the G2 that is best for visuals, but it has bad tracking, specially the controllers. You have the Index that has excellent tracking, 144hz, good audio, but the visuals are meh, well, they are not up to the G2 or the Vive Pro 2. Now comes the VP2 and combines the strong points of the G2 and the VP2. Now, isntead of having to buy two headseats, one for high visuals, sims, low motiong like the G2, and another one for high mobility like the Index, you buy just ONE, the VP2, you don't need the other two. Oh, and you can use the wands, that for some games are still the best controllers (like beat sabers), and the Index controllers, that are the best for everything else. Oh, and you can even add no lag wireless to the mix.
Yep. I own a Reverb G1, no need to upgrade to G2, I got it new with 30% off, 440€. The cable sucks, this is even worse than the G2, but the audio connection of the cable is unreliable, it is constantly connecting and disconnecting. I don't use the Reverb for anything that isn't seated. The HMD tracking is so so (the G2 is better but still not good), and the controllers tracking is not good either. Vive wands are very reliable and durable, and for movement games they are still the best. So with the VP2 you have the best of both worlds. Of course, I wished it had OLED, but that wasn't going to happen. It could easily have used Valve's audio solution, and even easier to have a decent mic instead of the same crap, but you can't have everything.
@@Lesbean_Burrito That's the best route to go, introduces you to high-end VR, has the capability of doing 60ghz wireless, countless accessories and support for the best VR experiences as well as an upgrade path to the best VR system, the Index.
This is exactly what I was thinking. This headset isn't groundbreaking in any particular direction, but it is just below the top in EVERYTHING. Also it seems really strange to me that being compatible with multiple controllers and different generations would be considered a negative. The index controllers are better? Cool, buy them instead and its compatible.
@@Cinsightfully Yep. I already had the vive wands, now that I will have a good clear image, I will use my Index for something other than fitness games, so I got the Knuckles too. This thing is up there in clarity with the Reverb, in FOV with the Index, it does 120 hz properly (I'm not sure if there is much difference with the 144hz I use the Index), can use wands and knuckles, uses the best tracking available, and can even go wireless albeit at a lower resolution. Yes, it costs a pretty penny, so does buying a good gaming PC, a good wheel/pedal combination, and a good HOTAS setup. If you are just going to play regular VR games, a Quest 2 is more than enough, if you want something else, well, this is it.
Thank you so much for your unbiased review. I truly appreciate how thorough your reviews are and will always turn to you at the end of the day for an honest review. Thank you again, Norm!
Can you tell me how this goes? I've done hours of research into VR and I remember thinking I just want a wireless index before I make the plunge. I just want VR to get a liittllleee bit better and I will dump 2k+ into a great set-up that'll last me years.
@@donaldcedar7574 yeah remind me haha. I'll try to remember to update. Wondering about this index 2 that's on the horizon but lord knows, might be another year
At the beggining of VR, there were one Projections every week; now that VR is more mature, have more content and products, they basically ended the show... go figure.
i don't know how you guys, but for me Vive Pro 1 was the gold standard HMD, the only reason I went to Index (and also like this HMD) was the outdated resolution. But as seems FOV is bigger, RR is 120Hz, people report edge to edge clarity with thin foam and visuals are close to G2! (that's insane with such a FOV - 30 degrees more than on G2) & best in class tracking with native knuckles support (no more space calibrator & its bugs). That's really sounds like best HMD ever made & that's HTC quality (meaning good here without sarcasm). Can't wait to grab my hands on it, hopefully next 1-2 weeks after shipment.
you gonna love it man i ordered it too,and index controllers,dont listen to dudes who are already blind with glasses and that test it on a 2070 super,like how tf you expect you gonna run a 5k res on 2070super,3070 minimum or 2080ti for this headset is a must.
unfortunately i didnt like it, screen is good but they dropped a ball on optics (bad stereo binoccular overlap for me, buggy software, heat, increased weight, audio is ok though, mic is awfulas usual, also lenses get fogged and comfort requires lot of tinkering, if not overlap issue mb i could enjoy it)
Try buying an Index in Australia or a Pimax, they cost more than twice as much to import, and the G2 is for people with small heads and too restrictive.
What are your options though? It's better than an Index and has better fov and tracking compared to G2 so if you dont want it then wait for next gen. This is a more of an upgrade for people who already have base stations and controllers.
I've been visiting this RUclips page for the past several days in hope to find this video. I really appreciate Norm's HMD reviews, and there hasn't been one in quite some time.
I disagree with your comments on the HP Reverb G2, I have one and it is not comfortable, the face plate is made for narrow heads, so it is uncomfortable for adults without a small or narrow head, it also reduces the field of veiw significanlty, and using the Windows Mixed Reality software is frustrating as it keeps creating multiple virtual screens that you can not get too and have to disable, which is more frustrating when it keeps opening the setting window on one of the virtual screens that you can't see. It's IPD max is too small. The screens are the only thing to compare to the Vive Pro 2, and the lower cost is not enough to off set the disadvantages. I'm in Australia and for some stupid reason Valve don't sell the Index here, and to import it or a Pimax is going to cost more than twice the cost of the Vive Pro 2, which is for sale here, this makes the Vive Pro 2 the only choice for an upgrade for enthusists in Australia. I'm excluding Oculus because it's IPD adjustment is too small, it doesn't have lighthouse tracking and I don't want to be forced into using Facebook to sign in.
fully agree on g2 points, also have 1, displays are beatifull, but it requires modding the gasket & even with gasket mod the sweetspot (not adjustment time but overall clarity once HMD is adjusted) is very small + FOV is small as well, much smaller than on Quest2. Software is terrible, performance on AMD 5950x with 3090 Strix oc24 is terrible & it has mirco stutters even with SS set to 30%, crashes, bugs, tracking is very bad(usable, but after Light House & Oculus approaches it looks defective). I couldn't use G2 even for seems, maybe they have drivers incompatibility issues, I did install all recent drivers & windows updates, things got a little better, but still not on a usable scale. I tried DCS, clarity is good, but performance wise & comfort wise it's a nightmare, ah yes, that poor strap system which is hurting your head, loos velcros with weird tension system that don't let you to setup tension at one level (they tend to make more tensions in minutes once it's readjusted & it really annoys as it makes more pressure on your back of head). So many problems in one unit, I got the impressions that all their R&D was focused on the screen & they didn't work at all on all other departments & put Valve lenses without proper taking care about other factors like FOV & sweetspot - all they cared about is king of clarity hashtag which is resulted in totally unsable HMD at least for me.
I'm really sadened by the fact that nobody is making OLED headsets anymore. After buying the Quest 2 decided never to buy a conventional LED headset anymore. IMO IDC if it's 120-180hz with no screen door. The gray blacks kill it for me
yes, but HTC did right, the resolution was their main flaw in Pro if they would do something OLED with SDE less than in Quest 2 it will be failed so big times & everybody would scream that in 2021 they dropped a bomb with outdated screen like it was with VP1 but I like it's screen & deep blacks though, for horrors it's still unbeaten for me. If SDE would be more good than in Q2 the price would be astronomical like in Varjo VR3 - if you want micro oled with70 PPD go & buy it, but it costs 3000 + 1500$ for subscription & you need to prolong it for 800$ every year, if you have money you already can have high res oled steamvr compatible hmd, but that's unreal price tag
OLED is by far the worst display technology for VR, it was only initially used becasue they are dirt cheap. High latency displays and VR that needs very low latency motion-to-photon is literally the worst mix. What you are asking for is for MicroLED to come to VR HMDs, which they will very soon.
@@sqlevolicious Do you have an oled headset? I'm currently using a HTC Vive Pro with etsy lenses and am loving it. Elite Dangerous, P3D, MSFS, are really immersive with the unreal blacks and clarity. I haven't noticed the disadvantages you mentioned.
The comments about the sweetspot clarity are spot on. The screen is VERY impressive but I cannot get over how much I find myself readjusting the strap and Hmd to regain that perfect spot. I'm going to try the headset out for the rest of the week and see if it improves, but so far it has been glaring issue for me and I may return it
To all you people complaining, HTC are the only ones that are taking high end VR seriously. Those of you going on about price, consider that HTC aren't locking you into anything or doing what Facebook are doing with logins and data mining, that's already worth paying a premium. Then again, people complain saying they dont get much for the price and want more tech for less, well if they added in wireless right into the HMD and let's say eye tracking you are probably then looking at $2000+ for a full package and $1000 or more for headset only then again you'd complain about price cos its out of the hands of many consumers. $700 as an upgrade option for people who already have base stations and controllers for a HMD with screen door eliminated, higher refresh rate, bigger fov, better brighter and more colourful rich panel.and higher res so when you do get your hands on better GPUs and they become Cheaper, you'll be rendering in the native resolution or close to it for a great VR experience. Yes price may be steep for some but it's probably in our interests to support HTCs efforts or we may not even have high end VR for much longer and progress and development will stop and it will seriously set back the consumer/prosumer VR segment. Even if incremental improvements over time while still being affordable enough, the VP2 is a good option for many existing users. If they fully went business because nobodys buying HMDs like the VP2 then you wont have many options moving forward. Lower end consumer VR is basically Quest now. There aren't that many companies making higher end HMDs that are still affordable. Other companies may come in at some point but you never know what could happen in an already niche space. If you are a VR enthusiast and into high end PCVR then might he an idea to support HTC. Specially if coming from a Vive 1 then you only need the HMD only and you'll have a way more improved experience.
Just because HTC was the last company releasing something in the high end sector right now doesn't make them the only ones taking it seriously. In comparison around two years ago the index was more innovative and all HTC did after that was to bring the most bad reviewed headset ever to the market. It's not night and day as you put it.
@@MixedRealitySimRacing Well Valve aren't really doing or done anything since have they? So not sure what you are on about. We are talking about right now.
Weird logic you have, there could have been something new from someone else every year but because you say only today counts and only vive did something yesterday they are the only company doing something lately, that's just weird logic
Everyone has its development cycle and they are for sure working on something in the background. What ever happened in the last two weeks you can remember isn't the benchmark of what's going on in the industry
@@elissitdesign Actually current designs due warrant redsigns. We know this because the most successful VR in steam is the Quest 2 and many have followed lead. The V.Pro2 is a money grab and they cheapened out as much as they could, while at the same time managed to charge substantially more than the competition for recycled components from previous generations. This was all corporate decisions to benefit only themselves and not the consumer.
Pretty much, the Vive wands are easily the weakest of all VR controllers, even just packaging the Index controllers would've vastly improved the value of the Pro 2 and maybe even justified the absurd price.
The Vive "Wands" are the most durable VR controllers out there. You can drop them, throw them, smash them, etc and... they keep on working. Unlike the Valve Index ones (I replaced 3 pairs simply because the left controller thumbstick stopped working -_-). Don't get me wrong, the Index Controllers are the BEST, but their built quality isn't... unlike the Vive "Wands" which can be abused in any way you think and... they simply keep on working! Also, if a controller would break, you just buy a SINGLE new one, not a pair like for the Index -_- (Funny because overall i think I used the Vive wands more than the index controller overall - when I was sending the index controllers back and waiting for a new pair ^_^).
I have this headset on pre-order. Currently using a Valve index. Norm. If the price was exactly the same for the Index the G2 and the Vive Pro 2 and you already had a 3090 graphics card and index controllers and base stations which headset would you go with?
got with vp2 it shits on the g2 in every aspect apart from res wich are identical,and is a huge bump in res from index,i had all of them upgrading from index for me was like going from 1080p to 4k on monitors clarity wise
Having both it seems that the VP2 is pretty close to the G2 in terms of sharpness. I wonder if he tested the G2 at 100% in steam which is 3160x3160 which is higher than native, where as he was running the VP2 at native. The G2 of course will be sharper in that scenario. I will say that Vive and steam aren't playing nicely together at the moment. Hoping for an update. The G2 tracking is horrible and youre looking through toilet paper rolls. If you're already in the steam light house eco system the VP2 is much better than the index. With 6mm foam I can get to 118 fov. My ipd is 70
Wouldn;t surprise me. He specifically stated he had a 2070 Super. My old 2080 Ti couldn't even run this headset perfectly at native so, the 2070 Super certainly is going to struggle hardcore. This headset has like 30% more pixels than 4k screen and the 2070 Super is like a 25fps 4k card.
@@michaeldeford1335 Agree completely. I use to have a 1080Ti which is about the same as a 2070 Super and running that with my Quest 2, the Quest 2 ran badly and looked crap compared to my Rift S. But when I got a new PC with a 3090 the Quest 2 looked so much better than the Rift S I immediately gave it to my brother. Using what in modern games isn't even a decent 2K card to run a 5K VR headset seems like a ridiculous decision from Tested, especially considering Norm is one of the best guys out there when it comes to reviews. It does seem like the two largest complaints I've seen generally, FOV being smaller than advertised and clarity being lower than expected are likely to be largely resolved for people using the right foam pad and have the system to power it.
I really like the Vive Pro 2. The clarity is on par with the G2 and the FOV clearly better, not to mention the tracking. At the moment I have the Vive Pro 2, the G2, the Valve Index and the Pimax Artisan. I will keep the Vive Pro 2 and sell all the others, so it can't be that bad..... (tested on RTX 3090 and Ryzen 5950x )
@@Anakin-dl6eb bruh i dont know how people say its blurry?got a g2 and pro 2 and they are identical in clarity but the fov is much more immersive,i do have a 3080 so it puts it on its knees but i know im at the desired res,proly people with glasses already almost blind and vr doesnt work that well for them cause i see them bitching most of the time
Industry normally spende $50k+ on HMDs as a full kit. Working in these industries, the VP2 with a A6000 Gpu with a Xeon cpu combo is now under $15k. Everyone in the office has a VP2 or a VPeye. If $300 stops someone from getting the best available HMD, then they probably don't fit the end user client.
Adam, your insights on the HTC Vive Pro 2 are quite astute, especially regarding the relative importance of field of view (FoV) compared to factors like binocular overlap, clarity, and pixel density. Your intuition aligns well with scientific understanding of human visual perception. 1. Peripheral Vision Awareness: Humans possess a broad field of vision, but our brains prioritize central vision (what we focus on) over peripheral vision (what lies in the periphery). The clarity and detail in VR are more crucial in the central area of vision, where we focus our attention. Peripheral vision, while important for spatial awareness and motion detection, does not require the same level of detail. 2. Binocular Overlap and Pixel Density: The overlap between what each eye sees (binocular overlap) is vital for depth perception and a realistic 3D experience in VR. Additionally, higher pixel density improves the clarity and sharpness of the image, enhancing the overall immersive experience. 3. Saccadic Eye Movements: Our eyes constantly and subconsciously make quick, small movements (saccades), enabling us to scan our environment efficiently. This implies that in VR, as in reality, we can perceive a comprehensive scene by combining multiple focused views rather than relying on a wide FoV alone. Your observation suggests that optimizing for clarity, binocular overlap, and pixel density could indeed be more impactful for a realistic and immersive VR experience than merely expanding the field of view. This aligns with how our visual system naturally operates, with a focus on detailed central vision and a less detailed peripheral view. Sent from my iPhone
I believe this was their move to update the Vive Pro to have a replacement/upgrade unit for their corporate customers. Doesn't make it less of a small incremental advancement, but I get it that they did it fairly quick with a small budget.
The only reason I'm not picking up a G2 is because of the lack of lighthouse tracking support even as an option (short of a mod that might not work for some people). With this in mind, the Pro 2 is my only option. A shame, but it is what it is.
just got my vp2.its amazing this dude wears glasses and plays it on a 2070,like wtf but if you have a good gpu and you aint half blind this is perfect specially with the 6mm foam i had the g2 and in the fov and tracking aspect it shits on it from a mile away they aint even close.
Great review Norm, i appreciate that you're 100% honest about its pros and cons. Its hard to find out that will openly state both... they're usually glorified ads these days. Thank you!
G2 has been life changing as a sim racer! Now have a pimax 8kx on the way, curious how it will compare, vive pro 2 doesn't seem like much of a leap forward, thanks for your review!
if you like G2 FOV for sure it's not, but with 120 FOV & 120Hz in native it feels for me as life changing, also hate G2 software & constant issue with crashes, room scale experiences & the ripple on the screen (during head turns it has similar effect to Valve index (vertical lines) but less pronounced, not that bad, considering other display positive things like brightness, colours, contrast & pixels density)
@@sqlevolicious let me myself consider my purchase wasting or not, Im lucky one & have edge to edge clarity in Pimaxes, despite washed out colours & some display cases, they HMDs are decent for sim, which I use them for. I have 4 Pimax Hmds though (8k, 5k+, 5kXR & 8kX now)
@@sqlevolicious some say it's the best for sim racing. 30 day return policy. If I like the G2 more still I'll return it. For how expensive it is it has to blow me away for me to keep it!
i upgraded from an index hes playing with glasses and on a 2070 lol,the clarity alone beats the index by alot to me it feels like going from 1080p to 4k no cap,the sweet spot is easily find for me but maybe cause i use the 6mm foam and the colors are also better than index and the fov a little larger.
HTC failed near all of their product launch since a few years now. It's safe to say that they are becoming irrelevant for most consumers. Oculus got the affordable space, HP and Valve the high end. When new headsets will launch, HTC will be done.
I've owned the Index, original Vive and worn the Oculus. The Oculus is the most uncomfortable headset I've ever worn. The Index's balance fit is a bit off if you have a smaller head. Honestly, the Vive fit is probably my favorite of all time. The Pro's balance and rear cushion feels so good. The only one that I've never tried is the Reverb. Overall, I'm still a fan of the Vive HMD. Index controllers are the way to go, though.
@@Lesbean_Burrito They do fail, every quarter, their stock price has been dropping for years. The only reason they exist is CCP keeps giving them bank loans so they can send US data they steal to the CCP.
This is the most legit HP Reverb G2 review I've ever seen, I'm definitely about to head over to the HP site and put one in the cart, I need an extra headset in my studio THANKS!!!!
I noticed the earcups are different to the Vive Pro. Is there any difference in audio or just a foam change? The Vive Pro can still have audio issues because of USB compatibility.
Bro, I just dropped 10 grand on a trimble GPS handheld unit that basically has ancient Windows CE technology. So $1,200 doesn't sound too much to me if it's for workplace / engineering / design purposes.
HTC has just ended up re-releasing the same product over and over for years now (barring the Cosmos...). The Vive was significantly developed with Valve's own technology, HTC still hasn't significantly improved upon the design or the technology, HTC sold off most of their R&D department to Google, I'm sorry to say, I think we're nearing the end of HTC as a whole.
You have no idea what you are talking about. HTC only sold off their phone division to Google. Vive has it's own team, always has done. And no it's not the same thing as older headsets. Wider FOV, higher res screens, 120hz refresh rate. Those things alone will result in a better experience and screen door totally gone. People have some ridiculous expectations. If they added wireless built in and lets say eye tracking also built in you are probably paying $2000+ and then you'll complain again saying you cant afford it. For the improvements you get and if you already have base stations and controllers you get it for $700. It's simple, if you are upgrading from older or even first gen hardware then buy it, it's going to be massively better. If you are using an Index or Vive pro and dont see it as much of an upgrade then wait for next gen. If you guys want more than what's been improved upon then expect to pay a whole lot more as well. HTC just cannot win whatever they do.
@@RyanX1899 No, YOU have no clue what you are talking about. Google bought INTO HTC's phone division, they did not buy them out. Vive is a brand that HTC bought from Valve, they are not a team, it's just HTC. The miniscule improvements don't really add to anything with the same terrible first generation designs and technologies that Valve has already abandoned for better technologies. 60ghz can't be built-in, you need a PCIe slot in a high-end MB with a top-shelf CPU for 60ghz technology to be compatible. 60ghz is an accessory, not a native technology. Vive Pro Eye used eye-tracking and developers as well as gamers found it to be useless. When you can get a massively better system like the Index for only $1000, the Vive Pro 2 is absurd and only for idiots like yourself to by into, probably becasue you will buy anything HTC tells you to. No one on first gen Vive is buying Vive wands and Vive Pro 2 HMD, lmfao. They are buying Index parts. FFS, quit sucking HTC's dick and grow a brain please.
Ive had a bunch of trouble with my reverb g2 I failed trying to get it to work with valve controllers and vive trackers and base stations 2.0 . Reverb g2 has very bad tracking particularly of hands and I’ve had the screen randomly go black while using it many times and I have to complete restart the entire system. The vive pro eye 2 sounds cool I think eye tracking is very important
I was waiting to see what HTC would release next before buying something from them. After seeing the reviews, I really enjoy using their deluxe audio strap with my new Pimax.
I upgraded my computer ($10,000AUD) , i have a 3080 graphics card, but as you know it no longer supports DVI, and my old 3D (120hz) monitor doesn't support Display port, so now i have to use HDMI which is limited to 60hz, but i can force and create a custom 86hz profile in NVIDIA Control panel.. So i would like to ask if this VR Headset will work at 86hz or does it have to be exactly 90? (In GTA V i get weird horizontal lines, so i have to revert back to default 60hz, I sure miss using DVI instead of HDMI, I'm waiting for an Active Displayport to DVI adapter to arrive )
Preordered ! Best fov & best resolution 120hz brill ( 10900k & 3080 water cooled ) Ps no glasses here Edited : received & tried total rubbish sending it back , optics bad & cooks face can’t believe how hot it gets , one will catch fire soon !
Well I was really hoping for better audio and controllers in addition to higher res/refresh rate panels one may or may not be able to take advantage of. I'd like to know how heavy this is compared to the Index and how wireless mode looks though.
Had the original Vive at launch and loved it until I got my Index. I was so looking forward to getting a proper upgrade but.. For now I'm sticking with my Index.
@@Buffypoodle I bought the G2. The FOV doesn't make a huge negative difference. But...it looks like the new champ is the Vive Pro 2. That has 120 degree FOV and 120hz and no screen door super high rez lenses. Also has lower rez wireless and attachments for eye tracking and mouth movement tracking.
It is unfortunate to see that the index and half life Alyx for that matter didn't create the momentum expected but rather a difficult barrier to overcome.
@@pavelruban1280 Dirt 2 it really cool ! Haven't tried dcs yet. Hla boring or not has solide immersion and is overall the most polished vr game I have seen to date.
@@pavelruban1280 hm I found the story and physics quite good and far away from boring. Hellsplit seems like the 10th unfinished arena sword fight game without proper AI or story, wish all those sword fighting devs would stick their heads together to finish something decent instead of everyone bringing their own half baked interpretation of the same game.
Man. if Valve do not cough up a wireless adapter soon, this might be my next purchase. I'm still att the gen 1 vive and feel like I only want another wireless HMD. This way i can get wireless by just getting the Pro 2 HMD, while getting the Index will tie me down to a wire again... It's been two years and I am still waiting for the slightest news on an adapter for the index.
Exact same boat, if this thing was a little cheaper I would have gone for it, but for $800 its a hard sell. I just can't go back to wired and don't like facebook
Supposedly Valve had it ready to go for release in 2020, but the pandemic threw everything back, especially with Gaben stuck in NZ for almost a year. They really should just release it this year when so many people already have an index and a pc that is good enough to run 60ghz technology. I can't imagine what is going on at Valve right now, they seem obsessed with getting Source 2 tools finished and helping Facepunch with S&Box, but nothing on hardware.
I enjoyed the review, but it did what a lot of reviews did, which is gloss over the fact that this is a 120hz headset. That seems like a huge deal that not enough people care about.
Great review and overall points. Though I'll agree to disagree on the FOV debate. Playing something like Subnautica with an Index or Pimax is a much, much better and more immersive experience than playing with any of the various low FOV headsets. That's not to say that a low FOV completely destroys the VR experience, but when we're talking about making more and more immersive virtual experiences, FOV is certainly very important. This is a stab in the dark, but how likely is it that those who wear glasses are more used to diminished peripheral vision, and therefore adapt to VR tunnel vision more easily?
As a vive pro owner and as an aussie how difficult and expensive it is to get something like a valve index down here, I think I'm still gonna upgrade to the vive pro 2 the resolution seems good enough for me to feel it's worth it but I understand it definitely won't be for everyone
I'm not sure why nearly every review says this headset is "disappointing". i guess its mainly due to the high price. luckily I just got mine for $570 during a christmas sale so I feel that is a very fair price for this headset, especially since we are almost toward the end of 2023. I really hope valve announces an index 2 soon because that resolution is getting a little bit outdated now
I was very happy with the vive and then the vive pro, and then the g2 and feel confident I will be very happy with the vive pro 2. never had any issuses with htc hardware at all. But having to deal with wmr is not great and I miss the vive wands and the light house tracking when using the G2. Index is not avalable in my country. Probably due to the mandatory 5 year warrenty on all consumer hardware in Norway.
@@sqlevolicious No it really isn't. Anyone buying the index is not getting an overall better experience. If you want a worse display, less FOV, lower refresh rate, no wireless support then go for the Index. If you want shit tracking smaller fov go for the G2.
@@RyanX1899 please get your "facts" right first! The Index has higher refresh rate with up to 144 and more options as well as it can do 80, 90, 120 and 144. The overall fov is not bigger on the pro 2, it's just different in the best cases and for a couple of testers even smaller. For example the vertical fov is much higher on the index. The index also has better speakers, microphone, eye relief adjustment, sweet spot and is cheaper. The only thing the pro 2 is really better is pixel density and resolution but seems to be hindered by not optimal lenses with small sweet spot and some say overall blurriness compared to a G2.
@@MixedRealitySimRacing The Index has a worse FOV that cannot even be disputed..VP2 has a better display, screen door gone, you are without doubt getting a worse display that's not even debatable. Then you got no wireless support if that's important to you. Rather choose the VP2 over the Index all day long. Why would i downgrade to a worse display? That's kinda dumb.
@@RyanX1899 check what people got as results for the FOVs, for example in the review you are commenting on it was bad, far away from specs and worse than the index as in some other reviews as well. Even in the reviews where it was measured the highest it didn't meet specs and was just a bit higher horizontally than the index while being significantly lower vertically which won't make it far better in total as you put it in any case ever reviewed.
Because HTC are intent on going bankrupt or becoming a much smaller company. They never seem learn. It's a repeat of what they did with phones and tablets.
I still don't understand HTC's push to enterprise. There's no way they are making all that much money off of that market when other VR manufacturers also provide enterprise solutions. They royally screwed up making the Cosmos and it's only worsened. If I'm honest, their issues really began at the original Pro. It was nothing more than a Vive with a better display and a better head strap. They should've just upgraded the panels in the Vive, upgraded the sensors to support 2.0 lighthouses and made the deluxe audio strap standard and made it the Vive 2. Would've made their lives and ours so much easier. They wouldn't be in the mess that they are in right now either.
Honestly one of the biggest detractors for me on HTC headsets are the old, gigantic wands. Knuckles and touch are just so much cleaner to use it seems.
I use the Knuckles and Wands interchangeably. I like them both. I am curious if the Focus 3 controllers would ever get a version that works with the lighthouses.
If not there companies that can fit your prescription in vr's. I use to be extremely near sighed -18 diopiters. I got cateracts and had my natural lenses replaced with artificial lenses. Now I am -2.25 so I just need a minor priscription. When ever I finally get a vr headset, I will order the prescription lenses for it.
i bort one for beat saber 1449 in new zealand just headset so i have a cosmo elite and its the second time its started to black out so hopefully this new headset wont do that for the price im paying and so i have 4 2.0 base stations and 2 2.0 controllers and the tracking is good for me for most songs maybe not pog maps cause controllers are really heavy and i cant buy valve index in new zealand and valve and htc headsets are the only ones that work with the 2.0 base stations so from cosmos elite this headset is gonna be a massive inprovment casue i play in 4k anyway unless im streaming
Love your reviews Norm, always very level-headed. Did I hear you correctly though in saying you tested this with a 2070 Super? That seems a wholly inadequate GPU to test such a high-end display. I had an experience buying the Quest 2 when I tried to use it as a PCVR headset on my 7700k 1080Ti system it just didn't look or run as well as my Rift S. However, when I bought a new high-end PC with a 10850K and an RTX 3090 I was able to run the Quest 2 at its preferred render resolution of 5408 x 2736 and the image quality was so much better than the Rift S I gave that headset away to my brother. Do you feel that a 3090 will push this headset, and the visual experience far beyond a 2070 Super and bring the headset into its own?
Then you won't get presence, which is literally what makes objects in VR feel real. Fresnel is the bleeding-edge of lens technology and we won't get another breakthrough for at least a decade.
@@sqlevolicious The fresnel lens is not new technology, they have been around for around 200 years. It's major shortcoming is that it reduces image quality. They are great in applications where you need to increase the light - lighthouses, car headlights etc. They are not ideal to use as a lens to see through. I would hate to think if my telescopes or camera's used fresnel lenes (although, there are some special application camera lenses that rely on a fresnel lens. The VR industry uses them because they are cheap to manufacturer, and are thinner and lighter. I have very poor eyesight. In the 1970's my doctor had me experiment with eyeglasses made with fresnel lenes because my regular glasses were about 3/4" thick -18 diopter. Although my fresnel lens were much thinner, I could not see squat.
@@sqlevolicious there are better lenses called aspheric lenses which are for example used in the very expensive Varjo headset. Fresnel is mainly used because it's cheap and light, not because it's good. You find Fresnel as a sticker on rear windows of cars but not in any high-end lense application like cameras, scopes or what else
@@sqlevolicious Index has own strong sides & motion smoothing there is very good, but considering it's outdated screen (I can't use it for working in VR, I can use Quest 2 though & VP2 displays close to G2 & better than 8kX while 8kX is better than Quest 2) So it's an upgrade, if you can't fix audio issues with mods it's your problem. But for me I don't mind mods & if HMD can offer better visuals & much better screens (Index always suffered from vertical lines jitter/ripple even after all those years column correction fixes, it's now almost gone but it's so bothering when you turn your head & on bright spots see this vertical lines ripple) Also index has quite light black/grey & HTC's constrast is on par or close or somebody like MRTV says it's better to G2 & on G2 (which I also have) the displays just on another level (despite the G2 itlsef is garbage hmd). It's what I waited for a long time - G2 displays with light houses, you just seems didn't try that level HMDs
I would say index now have good: * mic * audio * comfort if you switch to vrcover & do a counter weight (2 mods) + it weights almost 1 kg while Pro is ligther & already balanced I didn't try VP2 yet but believe Index has better sweetspot & lenses clarity but some reviews say they have index like clarity & edge to edge clear screens, so it might be a good for VP2 * Performnce - atm index & vive pro 1 have best in class performance with great motion smoothing, if VP2 manages to fix to the same level performance (with the same resollutions as reference) as Vive Pro 1 it will be a win but atm VP2 has issue with firmware What worse: * poor screens (they good & still good onces but after quest2/8kx/G2 & now VP2 you won't want to go back to it) * less H FOV (if you manage your eye relief properly) but index has bigger V FOV but not by a big marging, so it's subjective * colours & contrast is worse * artifacts (vertical lines & aliasing) is worse * its heavier * glue around the lenses makes it sometimes harder to clean the lenses So the screen is biggest downside of Index & it's main point (visuals) for VR. Im not satisfied with Index anymore
What bothers me with this unit is that dark purply blue plastic that was popular in the mid-late 90s. It really dates this unit and looks silly with the monitor in black. That blue plastic was used for a few years a lot in the 90s and unfortunately visually dated electronics immediately. They literally slapped new plastic on a dated plastic design. You can see it used in high end 3D computers, pro synthesizers, etc. it was a high-end look.
Last week I took my Vive 1 off after fucking around in tilt brush for an hour and there was a spider in it, he'd just sat there and watched me the whole time. I live in the UK there aren't any nasty ones here so it wasn't as threatening as it was gross, can't imagine what it must of been like from his perspective as his whole cave gets picked up with a colossal creature staring in only for the back of the cave to erupt with wonderous neon colours changing and shifting seemingly at random. Its nice to hear they're beyond screen door now, but I wont consider buying anything new unless its room scale wireless, oled, with the finger tracking. Anything short of that would almost feel like a downgrade or bizarre comprise, like the process of buying my next car rather than a luxury gaming product.
VP2 support HTC wireless module, it support knuckles (finger tracking) & the only relevant point is indeed OLED, I also love it & playing HL:A on Vive Pro 1 is a blast or Phasmopobia, but I can't use anymore such an outdated HMDs for other tasks - e.g. for desktop working/movies or light games old OLED just no go despite so good contrast/colours/ blacks, also ghosting is very annoying in fast paced games like sport ones or sims
Um, this is a fleshed-out final consumer product that has been out for years, nothing even remotely like a "proof-of-concept". Do you just not know what these words mean?
@@sqlevolicious you are obviously utterly incapable of thinking for yourself or look up the actual specs. Not all reviews said the same thing. There is nothing proof of concept about the VP2. Norm is obviously talking a lot of bullshit here. The VP2 clearly has many improvements over the G2 and the Index so it's a moot and bullshit point you are trying to push
Just got my Vive Pro 2 as upgrade to my Pro 1. We can all focus on eveything that does not match out expectations, but creating VR hardware is very hard and especially to get every variables right. The fact that we have come to the point that screendoor effect is a thing from the past is a major milestone. And believe me, it’s gone. That is worth my 800 bugs.
I'll be interested to test out the vp2 in coming weeks. The G2, like the G1, has some wonky optics imo, and broke after a month (30 days longer than it took the G1 to break). Also the tracking is so-so. With that said the VP2 has glare apparently, which is very disappointing.
It's hard to justify a very expensive hi-res headset (2000 vertical per eye) when even a RTX 3090 isn't powerful enough to fully utilize its potential. The barrel distortion requires first rendering to a larger memory surface, which pushes the RTX 3090 past its capacity when the game requires even a little bit of extra GPU power to get a realistic looking render. I might be willing to spend $500 on a good quality tracking hi-res headset right now, and long as it improves visibly on what I'm using now (Quest 2) without sacrificing what works well.
You couldn't be more wrong. My 3090 can certainly push that without a sweat. Most of my apps are at 200% SS at 144hz and native res on my Index and I rarely ever get frame drops or more than 1% reprojection. You can see vrMark and OpenVR benchmakrs for yourself, there are people running 300 mods on skyrim vr with 200% ss and hardly getting framedrops as well. You say barrel distortion requires more vram but forget the 3090 has 24gb, lmfao. The most demanding VR apps don't even hit above 12gb being used at ridiculous super-sampling. You just have no idea what driving a high-end vr system is like or what a high-end vr HMD is like. Quest is introductory, kiddo.
@@sqlevolicious depends on the game I guess, sadly I'm playing flight and driving Sims which don't run that well and even a 3090 won't make ACC or Flight Simulator run smooth at high res.
Wonder how much PC VR hardware development is tied to availability and popularity of people’s PC specs. With Unreal Engine 5’s new systems and maybe next gen GPUs (like 40xx from NVIDIA?) more ingredients can come together to push things.
I own an HTC Vive and Oculus Rift, so I really wanted to upgrade to something with a better display, I preordered the Vive Pro 2 since I really like the original Vive but now I really feel concerned about the FOV, looking online it seems the original Vive has about 112H and 116V calculated FOV compared to the advertised 110, so its sounding like this is reduced from that even though its advertised to be higher. Would be nice to get a calculation of the original Vive using the same methods though, since I'm sure those other numbers were based on a different methodology. I do have a 3090 and opted to buy the 2.0 lighthouses and Index controller to go along with it, and would have probably gone with the Index if it wasn't out of stock all the time.
Same boat mate. Have Quest 2 and 3090 and want a premium PCVR headset. Base stations and Index controllers have already arrived, still waiting on the headset. On paper this 'should' be a huge visual upgrade over the Index, it has more than double the resolution along with a decent 120 Hz refresh rate and compatible with the best tracking and controllers. I'm hoping Norm's disappointment comes in part from him using a midrange card from the last-gen and that our 3090's will give a much better performance.
I have the Index and tested the FOV and it was 106wide and 86High with the lenses as close to my face as they go. Ordered the Vive Pro 2 and interested to see what the FOV is.
This has a wider fov than the OG vive, and prob a smaller vertical fov. It's going to look MUCH SHARPER than an OG Vive, much much sharper, but the colors wont be quite as good.
I think you are missing the point here, dude. Right now, there isn't a headseat that is best at more than one thing.
You have the quest 2 that is best for price, but it is quite meh at the rest.
You have the G2 that is best for visuals, but it has bad tracking, specially the controllers.
You have the Index that has excellent tracking, 144hz, good audio, but the visuals are meh, well, they are not up to the G2 or the Vive Pro 2.
Now comes the VP2 and combines the strong points of the G2 and the VP2. Now, isntead of having to buy two headseats, one for high visuals, sims, low motiong like the G2, and another one for high mobility like the Index, you buy just ONE, the VP2, you don't need the other two. Oh, and you can use the wands, that for some games are still the best controllers (like beat sabers), and the Index controllers, that are the best for everything else.
Oh, and you can even add no lag wireless to the mix.
Yep. I own a Reverb G1, no need to upgrade to G2, I got it new with 30% off, 440€. The cable sucks, this is even worse than the G2, but the audio connection of the cable is unreliable, it is constantly connecting and disconnecting.
I don't use the Reverb for anything that isn't seated. The HMD tracking is so so (the G2 is better but still not good), and the controllers tracking is not good either.
Vive wands are very reliable and durable, and for movement games they are still the best. So with the VP2 you have the best of both worlds.
Of course, I wished it had OLED, but that wasn't going to happen. It could easily have used Valve's audio solution, and even easier to have a decent mic instead of the same crap, but you can't have everything.
I'm a weird case, and bought an Original Vive recently. Dated in a lot of ways, but works perfectly with my setup.
@@Lesbean_Burrito That's the best route to go, introduces you to high-end VR, has the capability of doing 60ghz wireless, countless accessories and support for the best VR experiences as well as an upgrade path to the best VR system, the Index.
This is exactly what I was thinking. This headset isn't groundbreaking in any particular direction, but it is just below the top in EVERYTHING. Also it seems really strange to me that being compatible with multiple controllers and different generations would be considered a negative. The index controllers are better? Cool, buy them instead and its compatible.
@@Cinsightfully Yep. I already had the vive wands, now that I will have a good clear image, I will use my Index for something other than fitness games, so I got the Knuckles too.
This thing is up there in clarity with the Reverb, in FOV with the Index, it does 120 hz properly (I'm not sure if there is much difference with the 144hz I use the Index), can use wands and knuckles, uses the best tracking available, and can even go wireless albeit at a lower resolution.
Yes, it costs a pretty penny, so does buying a good gaming PC, a good wheel/pedal combination, and a good HOTAS setup.
If you are just going to play regular VR games, a Quest 2 is more than enough, if you want something else, well, this is it.
Thank you so much for your unbiased review. I truly appreciate how thorough your reviews are and will always turn to you at the end of the day for an honest review. Thank you again, Norm!
Out of all vr reviews i watched, this one is the best
Ordered one of these with the index controllers; will be my first real pc-vr experience and psyched for it! Thanks for the review Norm!
For a first P'C VR experience it's going to blow your mind
@@D-money813 yeah, those I already have set up. Good lookin' out!
Can you tell me how this goes? I've done hours of research into VR and I remember thinking I just want a wireless index before I make the plunge. I just want VR to get a liittllleee bit better and I will dump 2k+ into a great set-up that'll last me years.
I was more blown away by the quest 1 than the index when I tried them both for the first time. For the index the god rays just killed the immersion.
@@donaldcedar7574 yeah remind me haha. I'll try to remember to update. Wondering about this index 2 that's on the horizon but lord knows, might be another year
Now this is what i sub to tested for. MORE PROJECTIONS
YES ! EXACTLY !
At the beggining of VR, there were one Projections every week; now that VR is more mature, have more content and products, they basically ended the show... go figure.
Same here.
i don't know how you guys, but for me Vive Pro 1 was the gold standard HMD, the only reason I went to Index (and also like this HMD) was the outdated resolution. But as seems FOV is bigger, RR is 120Hz, people report edge to edge clarity with thin foam and visuals are close to G2! (that's insane with such a FOV - 30 degrees more than on G2) & best in class tracking with native knuckles support (no more space calibrator & its bugs). That's really sounds like best HMD ever made & that's HTC quality (meaning good here without sarcasm). Can't wait to grab my hands on it, hopefully next 1-2 weeks after shipment.
Same here I'm coming from a OG Vive and I'm absolutely getting this.
@@RyanX1899 Also upgrading from original Vive. Should be a good step forward from 1st gen headset.
@@linochestang573 Absolutely 100%
you gonna love it man i ordered it too,and index controllers,dont listen to dudes who are already blind with glasses and that test it on a 2070 super,like how tf you expect you gonna run a 5k res on 2070super,3070 minimum or 2080ti for this headset is a must.
unfortunately i didnt like it, screen is good but they dropped a ball on optics (bad stereo binoccular overlap for me, buggy software, heat, increased weight, audio is ok though, mic is awfulas usual, also lenses get fogged and comfort requires lot of tinkering, if not overlap issue mb i could enjoy it)
I appreciate your honesty about this product. It seems unpolished and overpriced.
It's the same thing with everything that is HTC...
Tldr Review:
It has no redeeming factors and is ridiculously overpriced. But I'll be nice to HTC and say, "If you're rich, buy it"
Try buying an Index in Australia or a Pimax, they cost more than twice as much to import, and the G2 is for people with small heads and too restrictive.
I purchased it as I already had lighthouses and buying a Valve index would cost me twice the price in Australia. $1220 (VP2) vs $3000 (VI)
What are your options though? It's better than an Index and has better fov and tracking compared to G2 so if you dont want it then wait for next gen. This is a more of an upgrade for people who already have base stations and controllers.
@@RyanX1899 It's not an upgrade unless you have the first gen vive, lol
@@sqlevolicious So wait for next gen then
I've been visiting this RUclips page for the past several days in hope to find this video. I really appreciate Norm's HMD reviews, and there hasn't been one in quite some time.
I disagree with your comments on the HP Reverb G2, I have one and it is not comfortable, the face plate is made for narrow heads, so it is uncomfortable for adults without a small or narrow head, it also reduces the field of veiw significanlty, and using the Windows Mixed Reality software is frustrating as it keeps creating multiple virtual screens that you can not get too and have to disable, which is more frustrating when it keeps opening the setting window on one of the virtual screens that you can't see. It's IPD max is too small. The screens are the only thing to compare to the Vive Pro 2, and the lower cost is not enough to off set the disadvantages. I'm in Australia and for some stupid reason Valve don't sell the Index here, and to import it or a Pimax is going to cost more than twice the cost of the Vive Pro 2, which is for sale here, this makes the Vive Pro 2 the only choice for an upgrade for enthusists in Australia. I'm excluding Oculus because it's IPD adjustment is too small, it doesn't have lighthouse tracking and I don't want to be forced into using Facebook to sign in.
fully agree on g2 points, also have 1, displays are beatifull, but it requires modding the gasket & even with gasket mod the sweetspot (not adjustment time but overall clarity once HMD is adjusted) is very small + FOV is small as well, much smaller than on Quest2. Software is terrible, performance on AMD 5950x with 3090 Strix oc24 is terrible & it has mirco stutters even with SS set to 30%, crashes, bugs, tracking is very bad(usable, but after Light House & Oculus approaches it looks defective). I couldn't use G2 even for seems, maybe they have drivers incompatibility issues, I did install all recent drivers & windows updates, things got a little better, but still not on a usable scale. I tried DCS, clarity is good, but performance wise & comfort wise it's a nightmare, ah yes, that poor strap system which is hurting your head, loos velcros with weird tension system that don't let you to setup tension at one level (they tend to make more tensions in minutes once it's readjusted & it really annoys as it makes more pressure on your back of head). So many problems in one unit, I got the impressions that all their R&D was focused on the screen & they didn't work at all on all other departments & put Valve lenses without proper taking care about other factors like FOV & sweetspot - all they cared about is king of clarity hashtag which is resulted in totally unsable HMD at least for me.
I'm really sadened by the fact that nobody is making OLED headsets anymore. After buying the Quest 2 decided never to buy a conventional LED headset anymore. IMO IDC if it's 120-180hz with no screen door. The gray blacks kill it for me
yes, but HTC did right, the resolution was their main flaw in Pro if they would do something OLED with SDE less than in Quest 2 it will be failed so big times & everybody would scream that in 2021 they dropped a bomb with outdated screen like it was with VP1 but I like it's screen & deep blacks though, for horrors it's still unbeaten for me. If SDE would be more good than in Q2 the price would be astronomical like in Varjo VR3 - if you want micro oled with70 PPD go & buy it, but it costs 3000 + 1500$ for subscription & you need to prolong it for 800$ every year, if you have money you already can have high res oled steamvr compatible hmd, but that's unreal price tag
OLED is by far the worst display technology for VR, it was only initially used becasue they are dirt cheap. High latency displays and VR that needs very low latency motion-to-photon is literally the worst mix. What you are asking for is for MicroLED to come to VR HMDs, which they will very soon.
@@sqlevolicious Do you have an oled headset? I'm currently using a HTC Vive Pro with etsy lenses and am loving it. Elite Dangerous, P3D, MSFS, are really immersive with the unreal blacks and clarity. I haven't noticed the disadvantages you mentioned.
The comments about the sweetspot clarity are spot on. The screen is VERY impressive but I cannot get over how much I find myself readjusting the strap and Hmd to regain that perfect spot. I'm going to try the headset out for the rest of the week and see if it improves, but so far it has been glaring issue for me and I may return it
To all you people complaining, HTC are the only ones that are taking high end VR seriously. Those of you going on about price, consider that HTC aren't locking you into anything or doing what Facebook are doing with logins and data mining, that's already worth paying a premium.
Then again, people complain saying they dont get much for the price and want more tech for less, well if they added in wireless right into the HMD and let's say eye tracking you are probably then looking at $2000+ for a full package and $1000 or more for headset only then again you'd complain about price cos its out of the hands of many consumers. $700 as an upgrade option for people who already have base stations and controllers for a HMD with screen door eliminated, higher refresh rate, bigger fov, better brighter and more colourful rich panel.and higher res so when you do get your hands on better GPUs and they become Cheaper, you'll be rendering in the native resolution or close to it for a great VR experience.
Yes price may be steep for some but it's probably in our interests to support HTCs efforts or we may not even have high end VR for much longer and progress and development will stop and it will seriously set back the consumer/prosumer VR segment.
Even if incremental improvements over time while still being affordable enough, the VP2 is a good option for many existing users. If they fully went business because nobodys buying HMDs like the VP2 then you wont have many options moving forward. Lower end consumer VR is basically Quest now. There aren't that many companies making higher end HMDs that are still affordable. Other companies may come in at some point but you never know what could happen in an already niche space. If you are a VR enthusiast and into high end PCVR then might he an idea to support HTC. Specially if coming from a Vive 1 then you only need the HMD only and you'll have a way more improved experience.
Just because HTC was the last company releasing something in the high end sector right now doesn't make them the only ones taking it seriously. In comparison around two years ago the index was more innovative and all HTC did after that was to bring the most bad reviewed headset ever to the market. It's not night and day as you put it.
@@MixedRealitySimRacing Well Valve aren't really doing or done anything since have they? So not sure what you are on about. We are talking about right now.
@@RyanX1899 just because you choose the point of measurement lol, half a year ago Vive didn't do anything in 2 years
Weird logic you have, there could have been something new from someone else every year but because you say only today counts and only vive did something yesterday they are the only company doing something lately, that's just weird logic
Everyone has its development cycle and they are for sure working on something in the background. What ever happened in the last two weeks you can remember isn't the benchmark of what's going on in the industry
Hey HTC: the original Vive came out 5 years ago. It's time to update the controllers.
Clearly they aren’t meeting demands to warrant a redesign. Hell they even left the headband the same blue color.
@@elissitdesign Actually current designs due warrant redsigns. We know this because the most successful VR in steam is the Quest 2 and many have followed lead. The V.Pro2 is a money grab and they cheapened out as much as they could, while at the same time managed to charge substantially more than the competition for recycled components from previous generations. This was all corporate decisions to benefit only themselves and not the consumer.
Pretty much, the Vive wands are easily the weakest of all VR controllers, even just packaging the Index controllers would've vastly improved the value of the Pro 2 and maybe even justified the absurd price.
got the index ones anyway,i think they know people will just get the index ones from steam lol cause they are better in every aspect
The Vive "Wands" are the most durable VR controllers out there. You can drop them, throw them, smash them, etc and... they keep on working.
Unlike the Valve Index ones (I replaced 3 pairs simply because the left controller thumbstick stopped working -_-).
Don't get me wrong, the Index Controllers are the BEST, but their built quality isn't... unlike the Vive "Wands" which can be abused in any way you think and... they simply keep on working!
Also, if a controller would break, you just buy a SINGLE new one, not a pair like for the Index -_- (Funny because overall i think I used the Vive wands more than the index controller overall - when I was sending the index controllers back and waiting for a new pair ^_^).
I have the Vive with a wireless kit, so this is definitely more attractive to me than the Index. But I do want the Index controllers.
But you can use the Index controllers with the Vive 🤷♂️
@@_Dibbler_ I'm using Valve knuckles with Pro2 and Gear lens mod. Best set-up!
I have this headset on pre-order. Currently using a Valve index.
Norm. If the price was exactly the same for the Index the G2 and the Vive Pro 2 and you already had a 3090 graphics card and index controllers and base stations which headset would you go with?
got with vp2 it shits on the g2 in every aspect apart from res wich are identical,and is a huge bump in res from index,i had all of them upgrading from index for me was like going from 1080p to 4k on monitors clarity wise
Having both it seems that the VP2 is pretty close to the G2 in terms of sharpness. I wonder if he tested the G2 at 100% in steam which is 3160x3160 which is higher than native, where as he was running the VP2 at native. The G2 of course will be sharper in that scenario.
I will say that Vive and steam aren't playing nicely together at the moment. Hoping for an update.
The G2 tracking is horrible and youre looking through toilet paper rolls. If you're already in the steam light house eco system the VP2 is much better than the index. With 6mm foam I can get to 118 fov. My ipd is 70
Wouldn;t surprise me. He specifically stated he had a 2070 Super. My old 2080 Ti couldn't even run this headset perfectly at native so, the 2070 Super certainly is going to struggle hardcore. This headset has like 30% more pixels than 4k screen and the 2070 Super is like a 25fps 4k card.
@@michaeldeford1335 Agree completely. I use to have a 1080Ti which is about the same as a 2070 Super and running that with my Quest 2, the Quest 2 ran badly and looked crap compared to my Rift S. But when I got a new PC with a 3090 the Quest 2 looked so much better than the Rift S I immediately gave it to my brother. Using what in modern games isn't even a decent 2K card to run a 5K VR headset seems like a ridiculous decision from Tested, especially considering Norm is one of the best guys out there when it comes to reviews.
It does seem like the two largest complaints I've seen generally, FOV being smaller than advertised and clarity being lower than expected are likely to be largely resolved for people using the right foam pad and have the system to power it.
I really like the Vive Pro 2. The clarity is on par with the G2 and the FOV clearly better, not to mention the tracking. At the moment I have the Vive Pro 2, the G2, the Valve Index and the Pimax Artisan. I will keep the Vive Pro 2 and sell all the others, so it can't be that bad.....
(tested on RTX 3090 and Ryzen 5950x )
@@Anakin-dl6eb bruh i dont know how people say its blurry?got a g2 and pro 2 and they are identical in clarity but the fov is much more immersive,i do have a 3080 so it puts it on its knees but i know im at the desired res,proly people with glasses already almost blind and vr doesnt work that well for them cause i see them bitching most of the time
FINALLY! Someone with a GOOD sense and actual FACTUAL DATA!
Yeah, the G2 sux.. returned that 30 days later...
Hope to see you with the other host again sometime soon.- hopefully with some exciting product releases
Very good review! Loved that you showed the glasses in the headset :)
Industry normally spende $50k+ on HMDs as a full kit. Working in these industries, the VP2 with a A6000 Gpu with a Xeon cpu combo is now under $15k. Everyone in the office has a VP2 or a VPeye.
If $300 stops someone from getting the best available HMD, then they probably don't fit the end user client.
Adam, your insights on the HTC Vive Pro 2 are quite astute, especially regarding the relative importance of field of view (FoV) compared to factors like binocular overlap, clarity, and pixel density. Your intuition aligns well with scientific understanding of human visual perception.
1. Peripheral Vision Awareness: Humans possess a broad field of vision, but our brains prioritize central vision (what we focus on) over peripheral vision (what lies in the periphery). The clarity and detail in VR are more crucial in the central area of vision, where we focus our attention. Peripheral vision, while important for spatial awareness and motion detection, does not require the same level of detail.
2. Binocular Overlap and Pixel Density: The overlap between what each eye sees (binocular overlap) is vital for depth perception and a realistic 3D experience in VR. Additionally, higher pixel density improves the clarity and sharpness of the image, enhancing the overall immersive experience.
3. Saccadic Eye Movements: Our eyes constantly and subconsciously make quick, small movements (saccades), enabling us to scan our environment efficiently. This implies that in VR, as in reality, we can perceive a comprehensive scene by combining multiple focused views rather than relying on a wide FoV alone.
Your observation suggests that optimizing for clarity, binocular overlap, and pixel density could indeed be more impactful for a realistic and immersive VR experience than merely expanding the field of view. This aligns with how our visual system naturally operates, with a focus on detailed central vision and a less detailed peripheral view. Sent from my iPhone
I believe this was their move to update the Vive Pro to have a replacement/upgrade unit for their corporate customers. Doesn't make it less of a small incremental advancement, but I get it that they did it fairly quick with a small budget.
The only reason I'm not picking up a G2 is because of the lack of lighthouse tracking support even as an option (short of a mod that might not work for some people). With this in mind, the Pro 2 is my only option. A shame, but it is what it is.
just got my vp2.its amazing this dude wears glasses and plays it on a 2070,like wtf but if you have a good gpu and you aint half blind this is perfect specially with the 6mm foam i had the g2 and in the fov and tracking aspect it shits on it from a mile away they aint even close.
I love how Vive devalues, I will be buying that headset for $200 in 2022. Thanks Vive.
headset only rn black friday 574$usd
does anyone know the name of the quest face pad he is referring to at 7:25?
Great review Norm, i appreciate that you're 100% honest about its pros and cons. Its hard to find out that will openly state both... they're usually glorified ads these days. Thank you!
G2 has been life changing as a sim racer! Now have a pimax 8kx on the way, curious how it will compare, vive pro 2 doesn't seem like much of a leap forward, thanks for your review!
if you like G2 FOV for sure it's not, but with 120 FOV & 120Hz in native it feels for me as life changing, also hate G2 software & constant issue with crashes, room scale experiences & the ripple on the screen (during head turns it has similar effect to Valve index (vertical lines) but less pronounced, not that bad, considering other display positive things like brightness, colours, contrast & pixels density)
oof, you wasted money on a pimax
@@sqlevolicious let me myself consider my purchase wasting or not, Im lucky one & have edge to edge clarity in Pimaxes, despite washed out colours & some display cases, they HMDs are decent for sim, which I use them for. I have 4 Pimax Hmds though (8k, 5k+, 5kXR & 8kX now)
@@sqlevolicious some say it's the best for sim racing. 30 day return policy. If I like the G2 more still I'll return it. For how expensive it is it has to blow me away for me to keep it!
@@pavelruban1280 no you wasted money on 8kx why not 5k super they pretty much the same thing
I bought a valve index a month ago so this review brings me relief lol
The VR hardware industry is dead in the water. No one will be able to bring a competitive product against Index for at least a few more years.
Interesting take
i upgraded from an index hes playing with glasses and on a 2070 lol,the clarity alone beats the index by alot to me it feels like going from 1080p to 4k no cap,the sweet spot is easily find for me but maybe cause i use the 6mm foam and the colors are also better than index and the fov a little larger.
thanks for the review! lots to think about before buying this
Spot-on review and the best one! Explained extremey well. Thank you.
HTC failed near all of their product launch since a few years now. It's safe to say that they are becoming irrelevant for most consumers. Oculus got the affordable space, HP and Valve the high end. When new headsets will launch, HTC will be done.
Of the high end ones you mentioned which would you own?
I've owned the Index, original Vive and worn the Oculus. The Oculus is the most uncomfortable headset I've ever worn. The Index's balance fit is a bit off if you have a smaller head. Honestly, the Vive fit is probably my favorite of all time. The Pro's balance and rear cushion feels so good. The only one that I've never tried is the Reverb. Overall, I'm still a fan of the Vive HMD. Index controllers are the way to go, though.
HTC didn't "fail" though. They obviously have a business market, and it helps to have hardware in that space.
@@Lesbean_Burrito They do fail, every quarter, their stock price has been dropping for years. The only reason they exist is CCP keeps giving them bank loans so they can send US data they steal to the CCP.
@@sqlevolicious ...散布謠言我是可以告你的 請你小心點!!! 我已經截圖了 不要耍小聰明
This is the most legit HP Reverb G2 review I've ever seen, I'm definitely about to head over to the HP site and put one in the cart, I need an extra headset in my studio THANKS!!!!
It’s a vive not really pro 2 review
Holy ish, Projections is back! :D
Awesome review. I highly rate your integrity and know how. Subbed
Love your reviews, keep them coming!
I noticed the earcups are different to the Vive Pro. Is there any difference in audio or just a foam change? The Vive Pro can still have audio issues because of USB compatibility.
On vive pro eye its same as on vp2 they sound with it a bit more bassy but the sound is the same as vp1
Bro, I just dropped 10 grand on a trimble GPS handheld unit that basically has ancient Windows CE technology. So $1,200 doesn't sound too much to me if it's for workplace / engineering / design purposes.
HTC has just ended up re-releasing the same product over and over for years now (barring the Cosmos...). The Vive was significantly developed with Valve's own technology, HTC still hasn't significantly improved upon the design or the technology, HTC sold off most of their R&D department to Google, I'm sorry to say, I think we're nearing the end of HTC as a whole.
You have no idea what you are talking about. HTC only sold off their phone division to Google. Vive has it's own team, always has done. And no it's not the same thing as older headsets. Wider FOV, higher res screens, 120hz refresh rate. Those things alone will result in a better experience and screen door totally gone. People have some ridiculous expectations. If they added wireless built in and lets say eye tracking also built in you are probably paying $2000+ and then you'll complain again saying you cant afford it. For the improvements you get and if you already have base stations and controllers you get it for $700.
It's simple, if you are upgrading from older or even first gen hardware then buy it, it's going to be massively better. If you are using an Index or Vive pro and dont see it as much of an upgrade then wait for next gen. If you guys want more than what's been improved upon then expect to pay a whole lot more as well. HTC just cannot win whatever they do.
@@RyanX1899 No, YOU have no clue what you are talking about. Google bought INTO HTC's phone division, they did not buy them out. Vive is a brand that HTC bought from Valve, they are not a team, it's just HTC. The miniscule improvements don't really add to anything with the same terrible first generation designs and technologies that Valve has already abandoned for better technologies. 60ghz can't be built-in, you need a PCIe slot in a high-end MB with a top-shelf CPU for 60ghz technology to be compatible. 60ghz is an accessory, not a native technology. Vive Pro Eye used eye-tracking and developers as well as gamers found it to be useless.
When you can get a massively better system like the Index for only $1000, the Vive Pro 2 is absurd and only for idiots like yourself to by into, probably becasue you will buy anything HTC tells you to.
No one on first gen Vive is buying Vive wands and Vive Pro 2 HMD, lmfao. They are buying Index parts. FFS, quit sucking HTC's dick and grow a brain please.
@@RyanX1899 must be a HTC fan no one with common sense would defend that okay headset with a ridiculous price
@@spoon752 Tell me a headset better that is a lot cheaper?
@@sqlevolicious how is Index massively better??? Hahaha I stopped reading there. Cannot take you seriously with a comment like that.
Great video!!! Where did you get your black box shelves and plastic containers?
I'm not certain, but the black grid-shelf looks very much like an IKEA Kallax-series bookshelf.
Ive had a bunch of trouble with my reverb g2 I failed trying to get it to work with valve controllers and vive trackers and base stations 2.0 . Reverb g2 has very bad tracking particularly of hands and I’ve had the screen randomly go black while using it many times and I have to complete restart the entire system. The vive pro eye 2 sounds cool I think eye tracking is very important
The resolution boost over the valve index seems very very important
Norm is the first person I go for the scoop on when a new VR headset launches.
i don't as he's obviously biased and full of shit.
I was waiting to see what HTC would release next before buying something from them. After seeing the reviews, I really enjoy using their deluxe audio strap with my new Pimax.
I upgraded my computer ($10,000AUD) , i have a 3080 graphics card, but as you know it no longer supports DVI, and my old 3D (120hz) monitor doesn't support Display port, so now i have to use HDMI which is limited to 60hz, but i can force and create a custom 86hz profile in NVIDIA Control panel.. So i would like to ask if this VR Headset will work at 86hz or does it have to be exactly 90? (In GTA V i get weird horizontal lines, so i have to revert back to default 60hz, I sure miss using DVI instead of HDMI, I'm waiting for an Active Displayport to DVI adapter to arrive )
If you set the IPD to max IE: 68.9 will you get more FOV? I've never been able to work it out.
Best hmd reviews! Does the homework and goes above and beyond video expectations!👍🏻
Great review in details！Best I have found so far.
*watches first minute of video* Yup same. *closes video*
No it isn't the same
@@RyanX1899 It literally is. Watch the video.
Great informative review. Thank you
Preordered !
Best fov & best resolution 120hz brill
( 10900k & 3080 water cooled )
Ps no glasses here
Edited : received & tried total rubbish sending it back , optics bad & cooks face can’t believe how hot it gets , one will catch fire soon !
Norm, another comprehensive review. Thanks.
Well I was really hoping for better audio and controllers in addition to higher res/refresh rate panels one may or may not be able to take advantage of. I'd like to know how heavy this is compared to the Index and how wireless mode looks though.
Had the original Vive at launch and loved it until I got my Index. I was so looking forward to getting a proper upgrade but.. For now I'm sticking with my Index.
Yep. Back to considering the HP G2 or waiting for Index 2.
@@TheGreatIAMwon I feel like the g2 is better for sims where fov doesn’t matter
@@Buffypoodle I bought the G2. The FOV doesn't make a huge negative difference. But...it looks like the new champ is the Vive Pro 2. That has 120 degree FOV and 120hz and no screen door super high rez lenses. Also has lower rez wireless and attachments for eye tracking and mouth movement tracking.
Mine shipped today, but idk if I'll keep it...
I've heard complaints about the small sweet spot and narrow FOV.
Did HTC send you a shipping confirmation? I have one on pre-order, but no emails yet.
@@linochestang573 B&H did.
It is unfortunate to see that the index and half life Alyx for that matter didn't create the momentum expected but rather a difficult barrier to overcome.
dcs, dirt 2.0, hellsplit arena, hla is boring, good visuals but poor physics and just a linear story game
@@pavelruban1280 Dirt 2 it really cool ! Haven't tried dcs yet. Hla boring or not has solide immersion and is overall the most polished vr game I have seen to date.
That's Valve's specialty, lol.
@@pavelruban1280 hm I found the story and physics quite good and far away from boring. Hellsplit seems like the 10th unfinished arena sword fight game without proper AI or story, wish all those sword fighting devs would stick their heads together to finish something decent instead of everyone bringing their own half baked interpretation of the same game.
I agree DR2.0 and DCS are great
Man.
if Valve do not cough up a wireless adapter soon, this might be my next purchase.
I'm still att the gen 1 vive and feel like I only want another wireless HMD.
This way i can get wireless by just getting the Pro 2 HMD, while getting the Index will tie me down to a wire again...
It's been two years and I am still waiting for the slightest news on an adapter for the index.
Exact same boat, if this thing was a little cheaper I would have gone for it, but for $800 its a hard sell.
I just can't go back to wired and don't like facebook
Supposedly Valve had it ready to go for release in 2020, but the pandemic threw everything back, especially with Gaben stuck in NZ for almost a year. They really should just release it this year when so many people already have an index and a pc that is good enough to run 60ghz technology. I can't imagine what is going on at Valve right now, they seem obsessed with getting Source 2 tools finished and helping Facepunch with S&Box, but nothing on hardware.
I enjoyed the review, but it did what a lot of reviews did, which is gloss over the fact that this is a 120hz headset. That seems like a huge deal that not enough people care about.
Hey Adam , Did You Ever Experiment With Anti Glare Sheets they Use For LCD Monitors , and Applying a Cut Out for Lens Caps ??
Absolute excellent review. Thank you very much. Subscribed 👍
Looking forward to a potential vive pro eye 2!
Thanks for your honest review
Keep in mind you will need a Displayport 1.4 compliant GPU to access the higher resolutions and framerates on this headset.
Woooooahhh!! Just downloaded the Tested VR app. It's so trippy!! You're taller than I thought! :D
Great review and overall points. Though I'll agree to disagree on the FOV debate. Playing something like Subnautica with an Index or Pimax is a much, much better and more immersive experience than playing with any of the various low FOV headsets. That's not to say that a low FOV completely destroys the VR experience, but when we're talking about making more and more immersive virtual experiences, FOV is certainly very important. This is a stab in the dark, but how likely is it that those who wear glasses are more used to diminished peripheral vision, and therefore adapt to VR tunnel vision more easily?
100%. I’m surprised he didn’t say what the FoV was with his glasses off but that significantly lowers it.
As a vive pro owner and as an aussie how difficult and expensive it is to get something like a valve index down here, I think I'm still gonna upgrade to the vive pro 2 the resolution seems good enough for me to feel it's worth it but I understand it definitely won't be for everyone
I'm not sure why nearly every review says this headset is "disappointing". i guess its mainly due to the high price. luckily I just got mine for $570 during a christmas sale so I feel that is a very fair price for this headset, especially since we are almost toward the end of 2023. I really hope valve announces an index 2 soon because that resolution is getting a little bit outdated now
I was very happy with the vive and then the vive pro, and then the g2 and feel confident I will be very happy with the vive pro 2. never had any issuses with htc hardware at all. But having to deal with wmr is not great and I miss the vive wands and the light house tracking when using the G2. Index is not avalable in my country. Probably due to the mandatory 5 year warrenty on all consumer hardware in Norway.
so, is there a better alternative to this VR glasses or not?
Yes, the Index is respectably a better HMD, as Norm says.
@@sqlevolicious No it really isn't. Anyone buying the index is not getting an overall better experience. If you want a worse display, less FOV, lower refresh rate, no wireless support then go for the Index. If you want shit tracking smaller fov go for the G2.
@@RyanX1899 please get your "facts" right first! The Index has higher refresh rate with up to 144 and more options as well as it can do 80, 90, 120 and 144. The overall fov is not bigger on the pro 2, it's just different in the best cases and for a couple of testers even smaller. For example the vertical fov is much higher on the index. The index also has better speakers, microphone, eye relief adjustment, sweet spot and is cheaper. The only thing the pro 2 is really better is pixel density and resolution but seems to be hindered by not optimal lenses with small sweet spot and some say overall blurriness compared to a G2.
@@MixedRealitySimRacing The Index has a worse FOV that cannot even be disputed..VP2 has a better display, screen door gone, you are without doubt getting a worse display that's not even debatable. Then you got no wireless support if that's important to you. Rather choose the VP2 over the Index all day long. Why would i downgrade to a worse display? That's kinda dumb.
@@RyanX1899 check what people got as results for the FOVs, for example in the review you are commenting on it was bad, far away from specs and worse than the index as in some other reviews as well. Even in the reviews where it was measured the highest it didn't meet specs and was just a bit higher horizontally than the index while being significantly lower vertically which won't make it far better in total as you put it in any case ever reviewed.
Is the cable the same as on vive pro?
Man i just really wish i could afford VR tech. I think it's super cool and I can't wait for it to drop in price and gain increasing popularity!
Content I can digg! Thanks Norm!
Informative and insightful review as always, thanks Norm 👍
Why is this almost double price of the original Vive? Can someone provide an answer to that?
HTC's shareholders want more money
The year 2016 is not the same as the year 2021.
Because HTC are intent on going bankrupt or becoming a much smaller company. They never seem learn. It's a repeat of what they did with phones and tablets.
*Have you guys tried the latest PiMAX 8K and 5K yet...??*
I still don't understand HTC's push to enterprise. There's no way they are making all that much money off of that market when other VR manufacturers also provide enterprise solutions. They royally screwed up making the Cosmos and it's only worsened. If I'm honest, their issues really began at the original Pro. It was nothing more than a Vive with a better display and a better head strap. They should've just upgraded the panels in the Vive, upgraded the sensors to support 2.0 lighthouses and made the deluxe audio strap standard and made it the Vive 2. Would've made their lives and ours so much easier. They wouldn't be in the mess that they are in right now either.
Hope you review the Focus3
As the saying goes, there are no bad products, only bad prices. This definitely seems to hold true to that.
Not really, they aren't subsidising the cost and stealing/mining your data and locking you into an ecosystem. That's worth paying the premium for.
@@RyanX1899 no it not bro it’s not 😂
@@realpoorman3154 Well it is, unless you want to be locked into Facebook's walled garden and pay with your private data go ahead.
@@RyanX1899 no regular buyer is going to play 1400 for the same car kit
Hey I was wondering if you all wanted to do a review on my Varjo vr-3 headset
Honestly one of the biggest detractors for me on HTC headsets are the old, gigantic wands. Knuckles and touch are just so much cleaner to use it seems.
I use the Knuckles and Wands interchangeably. I like them both. I am curious if the Focus 3 controllers would ever get a version that works with the lighthouses.
Can the lenses be adjusted for nearsighted people without glasses?
If not there companies that can fit your prescription in vr's. I use to be extremely near sighed -18 diopiters. I got cateracts and had my natural lenses replaced with artificial lenses. Now I am -2.25 so I just need a minor priscription. When ever I finally get a vr headset, I will order the prescription lenses for it.
i bort one for beat saber 1449 in new zealand just headset so i have a cosmo elite and its the second time its started to black out so hopefully this new headset wont do that for the price im paying and so i have 4 2.0 base stations and 2 2.0 controllers and the tracking is good for me for most songs maybe not pog maps cause controllers are really heavy and i cant buy valve index in new zealand and valve and htc headsets are the only ones that work with the 2.0 base stations so from cosmos elite this headset is gonna be a massive inprovment casue i play in 4k anyway unless im streaming
Have you tried the 8K X after the 90hz update?
Very good question 🤔
ew pimax
@@sqlevolicious Pimax can be great if you setup it right
I'm blind in my right eye, can I still use it ?
You just talked about what it could do! I want to SEEEEEEEEE
Love your reviews Norm, always very level-headed. Did I hear you correctly though in saying you tested this with a 2070 Super? That seems a wholly inadequate GPU to test such a high-end display. I had an experience buying the Quest 2 when I tried to use it as a PCVR headset on my 7700k 1080Ti system it just didn't look or run as well as my Rift S. However, when I bought a new high-end PC with a 10850K and an RTX 3090 I was able to run the Quest 2 at its preferred render resolution of 5408 x 2736 and the image quality was so much better than the Rift S I gave that headset away to my brother.
Do you feel that a 3090 will push this headset, and the visual experience far beyond a 2070 Super and bring the headset into its own?
Their choice to still use a fresnel lens kills it for me. I would rather have a thicker lens that has a much clearer view without the god rays.
Then you won't get presence, which is literally what makes objects in VR feel real. Fresnel is the bleeding-edge of lens technology and we won't get another breakthrough for at least a decade.
@@sqlevolicious The fresnel lens is not new technology, they have been around for around 200 years. It's major shortcoming is that it reduces image quality. They are great in applications where you need to increase the light - lighthouses, car headlights etc. They are not ideal to use as a lens to see through. I would hate to think if my telescopes or camera's used fresnel lenes (although, there are some special application camera lenses that rely on a fresnel lens. The VR industry uses them because they are cheap to manufacturer, and are thinner and lighter. I have very poor eyesight. In the 1970's my doctor had me experiment with eyeglasses made with fresnel lenes because my regular glasses were about 3/4" thick -18 diopter. Although my fresnel lens were much thinner, I could not see squat.
@@sqlevolicious there are better lenses called aspheric lenses which are for example used in the very expensive Varjo headset. Fresnel is mainly used because it's cheap and light, not because it's good. You find Fresnel as a sticker on rear windows of cars but not in any high-end lense application like cameras, scopes or what else
Try Zeiss lens from Zeiss VR One Plus headset. It´s PERFECT! Awesome sweet spot!
HTC gave me another reason to upgrade to
Valve Index HMD
Then you are making a big mistake as that is a downgrade.
@@RyanX1899 Index is not a downgrade, even Norm says the Index is far better, lmfao. Actually watch the video.
@@sqlevolicious Index has own strong sides & motion smoothing there is very good, but considering it's outdated screen (I can't use it for working in VR, I can use Quest 2 though & VP2 displays close to G2 & better than 8kX while 8kX is better than Quest 2) So it's an upgrade, if you can't fix audio issues with mods it's your problem. But for me I don't mind mods & if HMD can offer better visuals & much better screens (Index always suffered from vertical lines jitter/ripple even after all those years column correction fixes, it's now almost gone but it's so bothering when you turn your head & on bright spots see this vertical lines ripple)
Also index has quite light black/grey & HTC's constrast is on par or close or somebody like MRTV says it's better to G2 & on G2 (which I also have) the displays just on another level (despite the G2 itlsef is garbage hmd).
It's what I waited for a long time - G2 displays with light houses, you just seems didn't try that level HMDs
@@sqlevolicious It is 100% a downgrade what are you talking about?
I would say index now have good:
* mic
* audio
* comfort if you switch to vrcover & do a counter weight (2 mods) + it weights almost 1 kg while Pro is ligther & already balanced
I didn't try VP2 yet but believe Index has better sweetspot & lenses clarity but some reviews say they have index like clarity & edge to edge clear screens, so it might be a good for VP2
* Performnce - atm index & vive pro 1 have best in class performance with great motion smoothing, if VP2 manages to fix to the same level performance (with the same resollutions as reference) as Vive Pro 1 it will be a win but atm VP2 has issue with firmware
What worse:
* poor screens (they good & still good onces but after quest2/8kx/G2 & now VP2 you won't want to go back to it)
* less H FOV (if you manage your eye relief properly) but index has bigger V FOV but not by a big marging, so it's subjective
* colours & contrast is worse
* artifacts (vertical lines & aliasing) is worse
* its heavier
* glue around the lenses makes it sometimes harder to clean the lenses
So the screen is biggest downside of Index & it's main point (visuals) for VR. Im not satisfied with Index anymore
What bothers me with this unit is that dark purply blue plastic that was popular in the mid-late 90s. It really dates this unit and looks silly with the monitor in black. That blue plastic was used for a few years a lot in the 90s and unfortunately visually dated electronics immediately. They literally slapped new plastic on a dated plastic design.
You can see it used in high end 3D computers, pro synthesizers, etc. it was a high-end look.
Pretty much not many reasons to buy it since I’ve already got a Index. Just going to keep waiting for the Index 2 in a year or two.
it must be sad if you own a Cosmos and in every video they mention how bad it sucks...
when i see videos that are 1 minute old it means that im up too late
Or up too early
Oh $hit it's already 6 minutes past
Last week I took my Vive 1 off after fucking around in tilt brush for an hour and there was a spider in it, he'd just sat there and watched me the whole time. I live in the UK there aren't any nasty ones here so it wasn't as threatening as it was gross, can't imagine what it must of been like from his perspective as his whole cave gets picked up with a colossal creature staring in only for the back of the cave to erupt with wonderous neon colours changing and shifting seemingly at random.
Its nice to hear they're beyond screen door now, but I wont consider buying anything new unless its room scale wireless, oled, with the finger tracking. Anything short of that would almost feel like a downgrade or bizarre comprise, like the process of buying my next car rather than a luxury gaming product.
That description lmao
VP2 support HTC wireless module, it support knuckles (finger tracking) & the only relevant point is indeed OLED, I also love it & playing HL:A on Vive Pro 1 is a blast or Phasmopobia, but I can't use anymore such an outdated HMDs for other tasks - e.g. for desktop working/movies or light games old OLED just no go despite so good contrast/colours/ blacks, also ghosting is very annoying in fast paced games like sport ones or sims
I'm fascinated by how they still let it outwardly look like a proof-of-concept rather than like a finished product.
How does it look like a proof of concept, it looks similar to the VP1. We're people saying that looked like a proof of concept?
Um, this is a fleshed-out final consumer product that has been out for years, nothing even remotely like a "proof-of-concept". Do you just not know what these words mean?
@@sqlevolicious you are obviously utterly incapable of thinking for yourself or look up the actual specs. Not all reviews said the same thing. There is nothing proof of concept about the VP2. Norm is obviously talking a lot of bullshit here. The VP2 clearly has many improvements over the G2 and the Index so it's a moot and bullshit point you are trying to push
Still waiting for the wireless Index adapter (non-PCIe of course) :"(
Non-PCIe wouldn't work. 60ghz needs a dedicated lane to your CPU for this technology to get it's full bandwidth and low latency.
I was just telling everyone how butthurt I was this series seemed over
Just got my Vive Pro 2 as upgrade to my Pro 1. We can all focus on eveything that does not match out expectations, but creating VR hardware is very hard and especially to get every variables right. The fact that we have come to the point that screendoor effect is a thing from the past is a major milestone. And believe me, it’s gone. That is worth my 800 bugs.
I'll be interested to test out the vp2 in coming weeks. The G2, like the G1, has some wonky optics imo, and broke after a month (30 days longer than it took the G1 to break). Also the tracking is so-so. With that said the VP2 has glare apparently, which is very disappointing.
It's hard to justify a very expensive hi-res headset (2000 vertical per eye) when even a RTX 3090 isn't powerful enough to fully utilize its potential. The barrel distortion requires first rendering to a larger memory surface, which pushes the RTX 3090 past its capacity when the game requires even a little bit of extra GPU power to get a realistic looking render. I might be willing to spend $500 on a good quality tracking hi-res headset right now, and long as it improves visibly on what I'm using now (Quest 2) without sacrificing what works well.
You couldn't be more wrong. My 3090 can certainly push that without a sweat. Most of my apps are at 200% SS at 144hz and native res on my Index and I rarely ever get frame drops or more than 1% reprojection. You can see vrMark and OpenVR benchmakrs for yourself, there are people running 300 mods on skyrim vr with 200% ss and hardly getting framedrops as well. You say barrel distortion requires more vram but forget the 3090 has 24gb, lmfao. The most demanding VR apps don't even hit above 12gb being used at ridiculous super-sampling.
You just have no idea what driving a high-end vr system is like or what a high-end vr HMD is like. Quest is introductory, kiddo.
@@sqlevolicious depends on the game I guess, sadly I'm playing flight and driving Sims which don't run that well and even a 3090 won't make ACC or Flight Simulator run smooth at high res.
Where’s Adam
Wonder how much PC VR hardware development is tied to availability and popularity of people’s PC specs. With Unreal Engine 5’s new systems and maybe next gen GPUs (like 40xx from NVIDIA?) more ingredients can come together to push things.
That's the kind of statistical data we will never see, lol
I own an HTC Vive and Oculus Rift, so I really wanted to upgrade to something with a better display, I preordered the Vive Pro 2 since I really like the original Vive but now I really feel concerned about the FOV, looking online it seems the original Vive has about 112H and 116V calculated FOV compared to the advertised 110, so its sounding like this is reduced from that even though its advertised to be higher. Would be nice to get a calculation of the original Vive using the same methods though, since I'm sure those other numbers were based on a different methodology. I do have a 3090 and opted to buy the 2.0 lighthouses and Index controller to go along with it, and would have probably gone with the Index if it wasn't out of stock all the time.
Same boat mate. Have Quest 2 and 3090 and want a premium PCVR headset. Base stations and Index controllers have already arrived, still waiting on the headset. On paper this 'should' be a huge visual upgrade over the Index, it has more than double the resolution along with a decent 120 Hz refresh rate and compatible with the best tracking and controllers. I'm hoping Norm's disappointment comes in part from him using a midrange card from the last-gen and that our 3090's will give a much better performance.
@@tau3457 Fingers crossed, hopefully, it arrives tomorrow!
I have the Index and tested the FOV and it was 106wide and 86High with the lenses as close to my face as they go.
Ordered the Vive Pro 2 and interested to see what the FOV is.
This has a wider fov than the OG vive, and prob a smaller vertical fov. It's going to look MUCH SHARPER than an OG Vive, much much sharper, but the colors wont be quite as good.
I think OG Vive was like H-100 and V-100.