Vcha looks like a group of middle schoolers that decided to form a dance group together. Katseye looks like an actual professionally put together girl group.
And tbh if you think about it the VCHA members aren't actually that much younger than the Katseye members. Like most of them are around the same age, (Manon and Sofia being the exception since they're 21&22). Dani is recently turned 20, lara is 18, megan is 18 and yoonchae is 16. Whereas Camilla is 19, Lexi is 18, Kendal is 18, Savanna is 18, KG is 17 and Kaylee is 14. So like if you take Kaylee out of the group VCHA could have more of a vibe like katseye. Not exactly the same like a copycat but more mature, they'ed be able to make music they like and producers and songwriters would probably be able to write songs suited to the western market
@@nav-1-i6b Yoonchae being a bit taller than some of the other girls makes her look less young. Not that she looks old, they're all young but she looks like a peer. Like they're all 18ish. And (as far as I know) they're really not doing anything that's too mature and couldn't be done by the other group if they wanted. Nothing like PCD Buttons or anything.
Marketing is the answer. KATSEYE's marketing seems on brand for a global group that is based of a kpop formula. They remain as an American girl group with a slight hint of kpop. While vcha seems more like a Kpop cover group than an American girl group. Also, that documentary did WONDERS for KATSEYE, it had drama, which is one of the things western audience feed and breathe it had emotion, it had everything . Promoting in Philippines, Korea and Japan and US soon, really expanded their audience. Their genz persona also really appeals to a wider audience than people who simply watched DA and their continuous social media presence. VCHA'S audience is mostly kpop fans who were watching since A2k, they haven't exactly tried to expand and go beyond that yet. Another thing is the styling. VCHA's styling is too restricted, like disney channel that isn't on crack not saying they should be sexualized. But the white princess outfits they wore when opening for twice( cute..for a kpop group which they aren't),the pink and white outfits for only one, the boring styling for youniverse, all seem very bland and it makes the members seem like they lack an identity. Their best styling so far is their cover for girls of the world, that concept is literally perfect, they weren't sexualized on anyway, it was perfect. Another thing is that they have 3 asian members who ignorant people would say look Korean despite being 3 different ethnicities, the diversity is there but i don't look like its there. Their name, VCHA, which is a play on a Korean word, is really tying them down to kpop. I remember watching the video if when jyp told the girls the group name, i was just as disappointed as they were, the name doesn't scream global POP group, I don't know whats its screaming but whatever it is it ain't it, it'd be fun to chant in a concert tho. VCHA also severally lacks star quality, like nothing captivating at all. And to all the people who say star quality isn't important bsfr when we have idols like Wonyoung, Karina, Jungkook, Jennie, the BRITNEY SPEARS, MJ, Ahyeon. Star quality is extremely important and is something vcha lacks.
I do wonder how much of an emphasis would VCHA put on other countries besides US and maybe Korea. Considering their main branding has been as an American girl group in comaprison to Katseye who has been marketed as more global girl group leaning; would this influence their short term strategies in terms of locations to promote. As for the star quality comment, not sure if you watched A2K but did you think anyone on that show has star quality? I think that was a definite contention in regards to Manon and so I wonder whether the contestant pool was subjectively all lacking star quality or they just maybe weren't chosen.
@@cloudchungxiao I did watch a2k and when it comes to star quality for a global group, non of the girls showed had that. Kaylee seemed to have star quality for a Kpop group. A2k was more of a "watch them become more developed in their talents". Honestly, jyp should have had western input, fbit he focused more on what Kpop or Koreans would like, which SIGNIFICANTLY reduced their audience. In the case of a non Kpop fan stumbling across VCHA, they would probably be unable to connect better compared to people who watch A2k and saw the girls become more skilled.
Ohh right. Could defs be another reason for the difference which is so hard to measure and really determine since it's so subjective. But yea, the lack of western input and greater emphasis toward Korean input has just lead to such a mish mash of elements from VCHA that don't properly work well to solidify that much of an fanbase.
It’s crazy how vcha never once got 1 million monthly listeners on Spotify but it makes sense when JYPE didn’t do enough so those outside of kpop would tune in. My friend who was abroad in the Netherlands messaged me suddenly about how they love Katseye and that touch and debut have become their new stimming songs.They had no idea about Dream Academy that formed Katseye and was still able to find out about them organically which is where JYPE fails vcha.
Yea, I didn't really follow either group's survival show so wasn't that invested in either. First time that I properly heard a snippet of VCHA was at an Itzy concert and then after that, it's been me actively searching them up. For Katseye, I kinda don't remember what it was but it was relatively organic where I initially didn't vibe with their music, but it would slowly grow on me. What kept me looped in while not being active was the documentary which I guess despite the negative reception; it really did bring more attention to the group.
I tutor a 12 year old girl. I showed her vcha and katseye. She thought both were good, but really loved katseye. Even listened to their other songs. She doesn't really listen to kpop but her best friend is a moa.
I love vcha down, Xo call me is my song, but katseye are doing everything right like they’re having live events, collab, and fashion brand deals, they’ve done more than vcha in their 2 month career, jyp just needs to take notes from hybe and geffen market team😭
same! XO, Call Me and Ready for the World are my fave songs from VCHA and I actually like their sound more than Katseye's. I just feel like Katseye did a lot more in terms of marketing, collabs and content to promote themselves. I wish VCHA had that kind of support from JYP, such a shame!
@@Arkv-o1nyeah that’s due to hybe training the girls well in advance. Meanwhile for vcha, JYPE was just focused on getting the first “global” girl group title and didn’t put in the time and effort to properly develop one.
@@mariasol1545 What's wrong with liking VCHA? Do you all sometimes forget kpop stans stan KATSEYE too? Because theyre literally under a kpop company with kpop house names? 💀
Yea, I do really wonder how much research they did or whether it was another venture and potential cash grab? The Korean influence is really high with VCHA so idk to what extent did they get help from a western team.
As much as mean it is. Vcha just looks like a high school takent show group that's covering kpop songs. The members don't really have that star look that appeals to the western market, the west is just as picky as korea when it comes to visuals but the difference is that they're not that insanely blunt about it. Not to mention the styling they have makes them look like they're actors for skit youtube channels like Troom Troom or something.
I feel like as far as visuals go, the girls are fine. American beauty standards may be high, but they aren’t as standardized as they are in Korea. I don’t think that any of the girls would be considered “unattractive” here. I personally think the bigger issue is with the styling / marketing. The high-school musical look and sound is not going to do them any favors here. When I think of popular Western girl groups - Destiny’s Child, Fifth Harmony, the Pussycat Dolls - none of em look like Vcha. The only one I guess would be the Cheetah Girls, which was surprisingly successful for what it was, but still.
@CherrieJellyBeanie Styling hasn't been a noticeable issue for me. Might be because it kinda matches with the concept and music that they are releasing but it might need something more distinct or elevated?? Might need to look more into that.
@@starsnoireartcheetah girls came from the Disney machine when it was at its peak. Same with Hannah Montana. I think Miley said Disney made over 1 billion dollars from the Hannah Montana stuff. Also the cheetah girls/3LW were dressed in what was popular at the time y2k. Also another thing is they had personality. The girls in VCHA lack charisma and all seem introverted and no one has a larger than life personalities. Raven had a larger than life personality (the reason she was such a it-girl as a child/teen) and the other girls were charismatic in their own ways too.
One of the things that frustrated me about A2K was that many of the girls also seemed more comfortable with a girl crush concept but were ignored. Specifically, I remember how Lexi, Cristina, Gina, Camila, and Savanna all came alive during their stray kids covers as that style suited them more. Those were also fan favorite performances. It was so obvious they should go with that style but they just ignored it bc they’d already decided what concept they wanted.
@@kadi_gnigue I was thinking the same thing. Seeing Vcha now especially in comparison to Katseye makes me think the JYP really rushed the formation of this group and has no idea what he’s doing. Even though the HYBE crew blindsided the trainees by suddenly turning their training into a survival show, they at least tried to take some of the public’s reaction to each member / concept into consideration. I think that if JYP had really cared about Vcha’s perception in the west then things would have gone so differently for A2K.
@malikabrown2357 Ohhhh, didn't watch A2K but that's pretty interesting. Could the other VCHA members that you didn't list not completely suit the girl crush concept enough that JYP was kinda left with their current concept? Assuming that is correct then It's kinda giving Lightsum where half the members thrive such stark concepts. @starsnoireart Yea, a kinda surprising but maybe not surprising thing about A2K was there was no fan voting which I wonder how that would have influenced the group. I wanna say from the Katseye documentary before the survival show was announced, Adela and Emily were pretty high up in potential members but when it came to the survival show, they just weren't received that well enough to make the line up. In saying that too, I think in Sixteen, JYP added Tzuyu due to viewer reaction and so maybe there was some kinda audience consideration but also potentially not. Don't really know if there was any major fallout when VCHA's line up got announced.
Vcha just lacked promotion and seems to be targeting a lost niche in the west which is the tween market. Kids nowadays listen to way to mature artists and thats cause barely anyone makes good art meant for the tween market. Disney is burning rn and its unfair that there’s a whole generation of kids that go from baby shark to ice spice☠️☠️☠️.
Damm, that's a perfect way of saying that: "lost niche." But yea, the transition from "baby shark to ice spice" is pretty accurate. There really isn't a natural transition for VCHA to kinda insert themselves a bit more seamlessly.
9:07 This is what I want for Katseye. They‘re a pop girl group, not k-pop. Give them an album with like 13-16 tracks, each song being around 3 minutes long (and not two minutes. And don‘t just remove the fucking bridge!!!!!!) and have them release 2 singles before the album drops. Just how it works in the western music industry.
Defs would be an interesting and different experience. I do remember watching a video about how Fifth Harmony had released an album every year during a certain period so Katseye's album eras may not necessarily be 4-5 year waits. That was the only consideration that made me a little iffy about doing something like that.
@@cloudchungxiao I guess Katseye could do it like Little Mix! Release two albums in two years, then take a whole year with touring and preparing the next album. Little Mix released their albums like this: DNA - 2012 Salute - 2013 Get Weird - 2015 Glory Days - 2016 LM5 - 2018 Confetti - 2020 Between Us - 2021 And I like that rhythm, where you still get albums frequently but it‘s not as overworking like it’s for groups such as TWICE.
I think that it's not only the fact that VCHA's music sonically seems to target a more tween audience but that the media that tweens consume nowadays is quite different compared to when I grew up, especially in the west (I'm English and born in 2004). In recent years, tweens gravitate towards presenting themselves in a more mature way and also consuming music from artists with a more mature image than that of a disney star. On the other hand, I grew up admiring disney channel stars and listening to songs from disney channel original movies. Therefore in the eyes of teenagers, VCHA might seem like the kind of group that they would want to be friends with whilst Katseye is the kind of group that they'd aspire to be due to their more girl crush image. Overall, Katseye as a group seems to be made with the West's preference for girl groups with a girl crush image in mind. In comparison, VCHA reads more as a Kpop interpretation of a global group. Personally, I like the difference in both of their music and images .🤷♀️ It keeps things interesting.
Katseyes and Vcha are targeted for international kpop fans, their sound is kpop in english, their sound isn't what is trending nowadays in Usa. Both Katseyes and Vcha targeted young people and international kpop fans. Both Katseyes and Vcha has kpop sound, that's what is the problem for Katseyes and vcha if hybe and jyp want non-kpop to like but i think their objective is just to target international kpop fans that's all. Non-kpop fans won't listen to Katseyes and vcha, their sound are very kpop but just in english
@@minjiinsunglasses Maybe but their sound sound really kpop like Vcha too, i don't think they appeal to non-kpop fans, they didn't adapt their sound to the West market...they go with kpop sound and what is trending in kpop nowadays Y2k sing in english for Katseyes and Vcha so i don't think they can win non-kpop fans like that, Katseyes and Vcha are targeted for international kpop fans that's all
@@newjeansfan238 oh my gosh can u stop with the "Katseye sound very kpop" my guy u know that's not true....go listen to the album or stop saying that😀
@@j.4867 yeah, but one isn't a middle schooler. Artists like Olivia Rodrigo, Britney Spears ,even debuted at Yunchae's age. But a 13 year old debuting is kind of unheard of and quite frankly, more dangerous. The range of VCHA is 14 to 19, while KATSEYE is 16-22.
I mean HYBE was also playing with slightly dangerous games considering Dream Academy did have some younger contestants around Kaylee's age. But yea, VCHA's concept lowkey emphasizes the youngness of Kaylee if it wasn't clear which is kinda a reminder of that.
in the future you should use clips relevant to what and who you’re talking about. how are you going to make a video about vcha and katseye and use clips of itzy and nmixx in the background?
Hahaha yea, I tried to do that but the copyright system was beating me up by blocking the video from certain countries and with each draft export taking one hour and a bit to fully complete, I thought it would be better to get the next best thing which was company associations. Might just find what other videos about them use next time. Maybe there might be some holy grail to find issueless videos.
Pretty accurate but I feel like there's like a small age group of like 13 - 15 where both groups are kinda vibed with in terms of general marketing of the groups
I also think Hybe took notes from Blackswan tbh. I feel like Blackswans company not only made a kpop group wih no Korean members but also seemed to want the members to participate in festivals in their own countries to show off that diversity while also showing love to those fans. Having KATSEYE in korea and the Philippines and LA (3 home countries of the girls) shows the diversity while showing love to the fans in those places. I hope they get to visit different states and countries that the girls are from in the future, they have so many fans in different places. I think Hybe was influenced by blackswan which us smart because blackswan is a very unique group with very unique success. Also the social media usage, Blackswan made use of livestreams and short form content a lot to attract fans. A lot of their viral memes are associated with kpop and helped people recognize the members. Although KATSEYE imo doesn't have any viral memes in the same way, I think using that content to create potential for that is smart.
Ohh damm, I didn't really think about Blackswan's influence to the formation and promotion of VCHA and Katseye. Defs see what you mean about the home country promotion but also VCHA and Katseye aren't Kpop like Blackswan is so idk to what extent would they have looked into them.
@@cloudchungxiao Blackswan, imo, opened the door for Kpop companies to actually take forming global groups seriously. Blackswan is an example of slow and steady wins the race. So even though Blackswan is doing a lot to establish themselves as a Kpop group first and foremost, I believe their emphasis on promoting their diversity and dedication to the craft of music and performance is what Kpop companies were probably taking from them when forming their own groups. To put it into perspective, I genuinely don't think Dream Academy would've had Indian and Brazilian contestants if it weren't for Sriya and Gabi from Blackswan. Blackswan isn't going to be their direct competition in terms of global success, just that they're very obviously inspirational. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they were even mentioned during the documentary. Lara also mentioned that she looked at fancams for inspiration during training, and being inspired by Sriya as an Indian girl in a Kpop label who debuted. They met during Dream Academy in Korea and recently did a livestream together! Edit to add: Blackswan is currently nominated for a MAMA award!
Ohh potentially. I do defs see how they could have seen Korea's embrace of Blackswan as a sign that it's possible. Didn't properly watch the documentary so don't know whether Blackswan was mentioned. However, I don't think luminas made too much noise about this so don't feel like they were mentioned.
@@cloudchungxiao Maybe? I'd have to watch the documentary again. I think, if they were mentioned (again, have to check), Luminas didn't notice because they were also focused on Blackswan's Apple documentary as it went on to reveal what happened with the departure of the former members and talked about the Leia controversy.
Hahaha yea, I tried to do that. The videos that I was using kept getting blocked in certain countries as part of the copyright system. Could have maybe broken down the clips even more or continued to trial different videos but each export takes one hour and a bit so thought it would be better to get the next best thing which was company associations.
If we look at the popular shows that have been directed at little girls in the west like the Bratz girls, Barbie, Winks club, Hannah Montana, The cheetah girls, etc... the one thing they have in common is that they’re made up of fashiobably dressed women who act in a mature but not sexualized way and certainly not childish. And they all have a very distinctive personality. This is exactly the kind of image Katseye portrays. Little girls love to project themselved into those kind of role models, because this is what they hope of becoming when they grow up. This is why I disagree when people say Vcha’s concept would have worked years ago, because no, little girls have never loved that type of concept unless it was accompanied of a Disney show to distract themselves with. Katseye is the exact kind of group tweens girls would have loved years ago and are gonna love now.
Maybe it's the subjectivity in interpretation but i could see VCHA being well appreciated by little girls. Don't feel like the whole projecting themselves is that strong of a thought to be choosing who they want to listen to. I think if it's a vibe, it's a vibe. Tweens though; that's a diff story and defs feel like they would be more intentional with that which Katseye would be who they would aspire to be.
Marketing definitely plays a huge part. If the company is producing a girl group aimed at the global market then the bare minimum is to do their research on the target audience group. Being a more polished group also helps. I don't know if any western fans would have patience/interest to see the group grow and develop from a highschool dance group. In the Japan idol industry possibly. I haven't watched A2K or Dream academy but in terms of debut era, Katseye definitely has much more impact and influence on social media platforms. There was the netflix documentary which brought them a lot of attention. "Touch" has been quite successful as well. With Vcha, I remember them having a debut song but then not much since?
Yea, there has been a few comments about the lack of research of right teams within JYP to consider how to market globally or with consideration to a global girl group like VCHA. Would be interesting to see the BTS of VCHA through a documentary lense just to see what JYP Ent has done to actually push VCHA but also just understanding the decisions they have made.
what i love about KATSEYE is the actual diversity, having members from all over the world with strong fandom like india and the Philippines is very smart
Do you think if VCha also embraced their ethnic diversity, it would have the same impact? I do think coincidentally the ethnicities of Katseye do kinda help due to the increased prescence of kpop within the selected members area of ethnic origins. I also wonder if VCha also have notable niche fanbases within their respective areas. Same with Katseye tbh. Like besides Philippines and Korea which we have seen Katseye appear, I wonder whether they have niche fanbases within the other members area of ethnic origins.
Feel like i personally dont like VCHA, because you can see so many groups like them, however katseye is unique and create more fresh music that stands out. Also, VCHA members are so so young, i feel like i dont really support them for their own good. We dont even expect people to pick their careers at 16, however theyre like even younger, i feel uncomfortable looking at idols so young where with adults like that in katseye, i feel like its their career and i dont feel like a creepy person 😔🫡🫡 Also, katseye represent fans of kpop from all over the world, so even if they want to see the members, they will discover and like their music and become supporters. Like i listen to them even when i dont listen to kpop that much! And thats their exact concept! 😅 and they got me in k-pop lol
Yea, I defs noticed the Katseye members do represent the notable international demographics that have a relatively large presence beyond the usual places. What do you mean fresh music?
XG’s marketing is fascinating, would love a video like this for them (especially if you consider the dualities between the American and Japanese music industries)! I think you hit the nail on the head with the issues we’ve witnessed with Vcha. The name in particular…😬
@@noseqponer636 lmao it matters look what happened to vcha.they opened for twice concerts but still remain stagnant..haha see what happens when do you don't have it factor?? You can hardly gain fans. Katseye is flopped as you say when they are just 4 months old group but remained booked and busy, their mall showcase tickets in Mall of America in Minissota was sold out in 2 mins leaving the site crashed. Haha they are slated to perform at Jingle Ball in both Dallas and Boston. They are invited to perform at MAMA in Los Angeles.. and that was just in their 4rth Month after debut..who's flop now? Vcha could never. Hahahahaa
Katseye are older for mature audiences and teens, they've been around in fame for about five months performing in mall of America and other places also they have a huge fan base on Instagram tiktok and other social media platforms also VCHA is just a Disney backup of them but are currently on hiatus now.
I think it's because since they're both *global groups* , fans are more attached to Katseye because they have a more mature concept. Vcha is cuter, and that's not something you'd typically see out of the South Asian (Maybe even Southeast) music community. To be targeted globally, a concept including mature concepts like westernized pop would be fitting; e.g. Katseye
Katseye looks more diverse which probably helps The netflix show is huge. It introduces them to fans at scale (screens). And the top 10 of the 20 are probably equally talented except some are taller or have more eurocentric features. Their singing might matter more though since you can just tune it for concerts or downloads but not for netflix.
It would be interesting to see the % of fans that became fans of Katseye because they were announced through HYBE, % that became fans through Dream Acadmeny, % that became a fan because of the documentary.
Idk why everyone is astonished about the stark difference. It’s not that one is better than the other. It’s just that one has better MARKETING, than the other. That’s it. It’s all about marketing 😭
But its not just marketing. Its also clear that the style for vcha doesn't benefit them the best for appealing to the west.JYPE didn't do the proper research to see what the tween and teen audience listens to and unfortunately its not the music that vcha has been putting out. Vcha style works better as a kpop group rather than a western one since again it sadly can't thrive amongst teens as along as their tastes are still skewed towards more mature concepts.
Nope, KATSEYE is way more talented than VCHA by far. None of the VCHA girl would have ever made it to the top 20 of dream academy lol. We even saw in the documentary that Savanna from VCHA actually auditioned for Dream academy and didn't make the cut lol. She then auditioned for JYP A2k and made it there. Stop being delusional, their skills are at a completely different level.
@stxrry-night Idk if it's astonishment but I think the assumption of JYP and HYBE which are notable and influential companies who both are creating their own global groups using the Kpop training system; I think people thought they would follow similar journeys. Not identical but similar and so seeing the different receptions and standings is what is interesting to see.
@@dwftmyearth6166 this is marketing. Researching demographics and choosing an audience to target is a part of marketing. Hybe decided to market to international audiences first whereas JYP decided to market to the korean audience first.
There are a lot of key factors that unfortunately didn't help Vcha but benefits Katseye. I know people saying they don't have the same cincept so we shouldn't compare....but they bot have the same goal to reach and that is to target the gobla/western audience 1. Their image: For Vcha unfortunately they don't seem balanced out or blend together, I'm not a 100% sure what it is but they don't fit as a group visually......they all stand out from each other way too much...not in a bad way but not in a group way either...they seem like a kpop cover group almost which isn't a bad thing all together but for the goal their targeting that's not going to work...for Katseye on the other hand from their visuals to even their height it just works they stand out but fit in at the same time which is something u want in a group....look at groups like Little Mix and Spice girls...the same can be said for them too Their Concept: This is something that JYP reallly didn't keep into account when making this group one bit cause the amrket his targeting doesn't listen to music or lioe concept like this...and if they do they moved towards kpop after the death of the tween/diseny era here in the west...so His doung a full circlr back to kpop by targeting a kpop auidence defating the whipe global group stuff.....for Kateye there a blend.....which is the point of the global group, their songs and concepts scream gen z as well as that girl group sisterhood that older girl groups had and it reflects in their songs, styling and hoelw they interact with one another. Both groups music also reflect from their concept. To summarize cause I'm going on to lonh😂 sorry i agree with what u said in the video and how u arranged your thoughs....good video❤👍🏼 JYP rushed and didn't think Vcha through and it shows...he sairt shot himself in the foot with out thinking....but Hybe really really thought of thus project in the long run..literally using 2years and getting help and advuce from western comapmy and advisors and also listen to their audience and it shows as well
Yea, lowkey would be interesting to see like a VCHA documentary to really see what we are missing. Does feel like JYP rushed things but also do wonder how much effort did he actually put into trying to accomplish the goal vs accomplishing the goal with what he was given. Like imagine if they tried to personally tried to recruit more people beyond the casting call auditions.
NiziU did pretty well so JYP went and go why don't we do that again but America, failing to realize that the Japan and Western market is vastly different.
04:21 KatsEye didnt get the attention of US Teenagers or Young Adults of the USA unless you are an active KPOP fan or an American HYBE supporter who has an awareness. Example, if I asked a 1000 Los Angeles students from Unified Public School, only less than 30 students had heard about KatsEye. Less than 10 had followed. KatsEye is not the same level like Britney Spears, Pussy Cat Dolls when they released a song in the US, it made headlines and doesnt need promotions. For American, we find KatsEye quite conservative and was design on Asian Market. Not Western. Most Westerners like US were disappointed that who ever produce KatsEye didnt use their Vocal talent to the level of Beyonce or Celine Dion. And the way KatsEye dress up is so Korean Level not a POP Star. The only reason KatsEye got slowly raising its popularity most especially in Asia because of the NetFlix it gave awareness and Asian Tour Fan Sign and country's local tv sitcoms.
Yea, from reading the comments the main demographic does seem to be international kpo fans. Don't think the US was specifically the target area as they emphasized the group being a global group though.
Hahaha yea, had to the next best thing which was company association. Was having trouble with clips that wouldn't block the whole video in certain countries. Really weird considering I'm not the only one who has done videos about VCHA or Katseye.
1. Vcha failed by going cute 2. They promote like a korean group. But hey, I still think Katseye are too tame. Hopefully they go harder when all are adults
Vcha will comeback even though katseye is popular now , vcha will show . But pls dont compare vcha and katseye , it might upset there fans or the idols themselves if they come across all i want to tell is pls dont compare But isnt it just funny this person is kind of supprting katseye than vcha i personally think this is not fair to make video like this like them deciding they popularity. Well its just my opinion didnt mean to offensive anyone though but just tell me what you think about comparing groups thank you but i am not hating katseye or vcha Just want a neutral perspective. Love KATSEYE AND VCHA ❤
I think it's pretty valid to compare if you can outline your perspectives. I always open to discussions if you believe differently. Don't really think fans should be upset if they actively choose to click on a video that's pretty blunt on the title about what it's about. As for supporting Katseye more, Idk if that's what I'm doing. It's more that the video is focusing on the perceptive success that Katseye has been able to achieve in comparison to VCHA and thus it may lead to the idea that I support them more. However, it's just highlighting the difference which benefit Katseye only because I see their current direction as what they should both be at but aren't.
VCHA is NOT a global group. It's an AMERICAN Group. JYP will have 3 diffrent Groups A2K (VCHA) L2K (his Latin American Group) And E2K (His european Group) He got Trademarks for E2K and L2K. That's why he only has americans in VCHA.
XG isn't kpop, they win international kpop fans but i don't think they win koreans fans, they promote little in South Korea in music show but is japanese, sing i english. They work for international kpop fans but that's the problem with XG, Katseyes and Vcha they will succeed to win international kpop fans but not really koreans fans. And one day if they won't succeed internationaly for international kpop fans, they won't have korean fanbase and won't succeed in South Korea. Xg, Katseyes, Vcha i heard only international kpop fans who talk about them, little bought their album but i wonder if korean fans heard about them... I think Katseyes and Vcha, koreans kpop fans heard about them because they're from hybe and jyp but i don't think they have solid korean fanbase like others hybe and jyp groups. If they won't succeed internationaly, they won't succeed in South Korea with no really korean fanbase in south korea. I'm sure for XG, if they don't have international kpop fans, they won't succeed in South Korea because they sing in english and don't have korean fanbase.
FYI, Most or at Least Some of the Native 🇰🇷 Pop 🎵🎶 Fans Nationwide Dislike XG for Being Based in their Own Country to Be Promoted Like a Typical K-Pop Group Only for International Fame But Refuses/Unwilling to Release at Least a Single Korean Language Song on Longterm Basis at the Same Time.
@newjeansfan238 XG is subjetively Kpop because I wanna say there is no clear definition of Kpop based on the many discourse that I've seen re: what is kpop. You're kinda losing me in re: to what you're trying to say. Defs not an active fan to all three groups but I have seen them all being received well in South Korea. Wouldn't say it's anything big and strong enough to completely focus on South Korea but it's something where they could visit when they tour. As for the whole international kpop fan comment, the vibes are kinda not there. There's so much pessimism in your comments that your thoughts are always in the perspective of why they'll just not succeed. Not sure how much you follow them so maybe you know some more inside scoop or something but XG is doing well for themselves, Katseye are kinda doing there thing atm and VCHA; we'll just have to see how JYP Ent moves next.
@@cloudchungxiao Xg is doing well not in South Korea well but is doing well internationally with international kpop fans! I doubt Xg has korean fanbase, they sing in english only, i don't even know if korean know them because even nugu korean group, korean don't know them
Here’s a tip. Next time put videos of the topic your talking about for example here it’s bc ha and katseye and not a random kpop group that has nothing to do with the topic your talking about.
Katseyes and Vcha have international kpop fans but not really korean fans i think and not really non-kpop fans. Us non-kpop fans don't listen to Katseyes and vcha, they are unknown outside kpop fans for non-kpop fans and their sound aren't what is trending in Usa... So i think it can work only for international kpop fans but won't work in Usa for non-kpop fans because of the sound etc..
@@gwenmloveskpopandmoreIt can be loved for a few non-kpop fans but i want to say the sound of Touch and others Katseyes and Vcha songs are very kpop, not very pop and not very trending in USA. Katseyes and Vcha can be loved by kpop fans but not in Usa market with what is trending in Usa isn't this kind of song, isn't y2k that is trending in Usa. It won't work in Usa with non-kpop fans i mean
@@newjeansfan238 it does but at the same time it doesn’t. Touch has actually been going viral for non USA kpop fans believe it or not it just depends on where u live in the U.S.
Vcha clearly stands out, their songs of inspiration, hopes, and dreams, is really unique. Katseye is just another girl group, don't get me wrong love Yoonchae, Manon, Sophia... Also Katseyes members all had huge followings before their debut, unlike Vcha. Also Vcha has minors from the USA, so they have to follow US rules for minors working. Vcha has significant hurdles, unlike girl groups in Korea, where their minors working doesn't have those restrictions. So really this comparison, is like comparing apples to oranges. Both are great and tasty, neither is bad. Why people would try to hate farm this is stupid, and just adds to the stigma of kpop fans being petty and fanatics, ie crazy.
Katseye stands out anytime and is more appealing to westerm audiences Definitely global fans compare kid bops not going to work on western market and vcha lack in star quality to say global they even white washing all black and brown girls no hate but need lot of training and correction to make them before releasing another music they are kinda twice English version in westerm market jyp debuted them being minor who's fault? she is too young to be in the global market People are more strict than Koreans debuting minors jyp literally rushed many things vchas songs are kid bops nothing else neither Koreans able to connect nor western so hard fact comparison will happen in future aswell
Sadly, VCHA needs a strong rebrand. The reason why KATSEYE is popular because their songs go well with the trends nowadays on Pop music and despite of Yoonchae being the youngest, they can go through concept that is age appropriate for both group and the audience. VCHA however sounds like a Disney or Kidz bop group, it has the essence of Twice's concept in which I personally think doesn't hold a strong suit for an international group.
Girl..clearly you did not heard their other songs coz it has good meanings too. VCHA is very kpoppy (a kidzbo kinda way)to attract global fans especially supporters from West I'm not shocked that they failed in korean & western market 🤷♀️
I'm not a fan pf Katseyes and vcha neither, they target international kpop fans not South Korea. I Wonder if they will succeed because their sound is kpop but in english, we can hear that, they don't adapt the sound for Usa, Usa trends nowadays isn't that so for me Katseyes and vcha are targeted specifically international kpop fans that's all. I Wonder if koreans are receptive of Katseyes or vcha because it's not really kpop targeted for koreans. Katseyes and Vcha have international kpop fans but not really korean fans i think and not really non-kpop fans. Us non-kpop fans don't listen to Katseyes and vcha, they are unknown outside kpop fans for non-kpop fans and their sound aren't what is trending in Usa... So i think i can work only for international kpop fans but won't work in Usa for non-kpop fans because of the sound etc..
Nahh.. why dont you check the first fan meet of Katseye in LA, there was already a long queue… that was just 2-3 weeks after the released Touch. I would presume the fans have increased by now, just like how their monthly listeners in Spotify increased to 11.4million listeners in 3 months. I just knew they will become very famous even before they debuted. Katseye is a group full of talents and star quality. Period.
so many things wrong on your comment about katseye lol 1. they target INTERNATIONAL FANS, not just KPOP fans. 2. the reason why their songs sound kpop, is because most kpop songs nowadays are WESTERNIZED. if you look at the credits of every KATSEYE song, the producers are very HUGE in the West. also, subjectively their songs remind me a bit of Pink Pantheress and older American Pop music, like (2013-2016ish). The sound of USA that you are talking about was the sound KPOP has been adapting through these years. 3. They have non-kpop fans actually. I'm not even closely following them but their Asian/American shows recently were packed with both NON-KPOP and KPOP people. 4. Just because they aren't trending as much in the US as most mainstream Pop is, does not dismiss that they are INTERNATIONAL. International or global literally means around the globe LMAO. Check out their song Touch, which has been trending GLOBALLY, and you'll see what i mean you're welcome eyekons. :3
@@hazelnuts They can have a few non-kpop fans but won't succeed in Usa in Usa market with this type of song y2k that is trending in Kpop but isn't trending in Usa! Most of Katseyes fan are internationale kpop fans, not non-kpop fans. And if Katseyes won't have international kpop fans, they won't succeed in Usa with their sound that isn't adapt to Usa market nowadays.
@@newjeansfan238 not arguing further with you, but y2k isn't the only sound KATSEYE has. just because you are a fan of NewJeans, and y2k is huge in kpop. they will thrive in the US market for sure, without even sticking to a certain genre throughout their entire career. reread my #4. have a good day.
@@hazelnuts Lol i'm a kpop fan but i'm realist, not too delu like you, we can't see the future but even if kpop is more known than before in Usa and international that doesn't mean they can succeed to Usa. A lot of non-kpop fans hate kpop, don't like kpop, don't like boysband and girlsband. West and East market are different. Katseyes is a girlsband with sound that is too y2k but mainly too kpop. It isn't like destiny Child etc, if you want to be just too optimist, too delusionnal, do what you want lol but that's fact: Katseyes has kpop sound in english that's all to appeal to international kpop fans! Their sound isn't adapt to Usa market what is trending now in Usa! That's a fact!
Vcha looks like a group of middle schoolers that decided to form a dance group together. Katseye looks like an actual professionally put together girl group.
Hahaha yea, that really encapsulates the wanting to dance with VCHA while wanting to be Katseye comment that I made.
And tbh if you think about it the VCHA members aren't actually that much younger than the Katseye members. Like most of them are around the same age, (Manon and Sofia being the exception since they're 21&22). Dani is recently turned 20, lara is 18, megan is 18 and yoonchae is 16. Whereas Camilla is 19, Lexi is 18, Kendal is 18, Savanna is 18, KG is 17 and Kaylee is 14. So like if you take Kaylee out of the group VCHA could have more of a vibe like katseye. Not exactly the same like a copycat but more mature, they'ed be able to make music they like and producers and songwriters would probably be able to write songs suited to the western market
@@nav-1-i6b Yoonchae being a bit taller than some of the other girls makes her look less young. Not that she looks old, they're all young but she looks like a peer. Like they're all 18ish. And (as far as I know) they're really not doing anything that's too mature and couldn't be done by the other group if they wanted. Nothing like PCD Buttons or anything.
Too bad Kaylee fits the sexy concept the most
@@soularetf…
Marketing is the answer. KATSEYE's marketing seems on brand for a global group that is based of a kpop formula. They remain as an American girl group with a slight hint of kpop. While vcha seems more like a Kpop cover group than an American girl group. Also, that documentary did WONDERS for KATSEYE, it had drama, which is one of the things western audience feed and breathe it had emotion, it had everything .
Promoting in Philippines, Korea and Japan and US soon, really expanded their audience. Their genz persona also really appeals to a wider audience than people who simply watched DA and their continuous social media presence.
VCHA'S audience is mostly kpop fans who were watching since A2k, they haven't exactly tried to expand and go beyond that yet. Another thing is the styling. VCHA's styling is too restricted, like disney channel that isn't on crack not saying they should be sexualized. But the white princess outfits they wore when opening for twice( cute..for a kpop group which they aren't),the pink and white outfits for only one, the boring styling for youniverse, all seem very bland and it makes the members seem like they lack an identity. Their best styling so far is their cover for girls of the world, that concept is literally perfect, they weren't sexualized on anyway, it was perfect. Another thing is that they have 3 asian members who ignorant people would say look Korean despite being 3 different ethnicities, the diversity is there but i don't look like its there. Their name, VCHA, which is a play on a Korean word, is really tying them down to kpop. I remember watching the video if when jyp told the girls the group name, i was just as disappointed as they were, the name doesn't scream global POP group, I don't know whats its screaming but whatever it is it ain't it, it'd be fun to chant in a concert tho. VCHA also severally lacks star quality, like nothing captivating at all. And to all the people who say star quality isn't important bsfr when we have idols like Wonyoung, Karina, Jungkook, Jennie, the BRITNEY SPEARS, MJ, Ahyeon. Star quality is extremely important and is something vcha lacks.
I do wonder how much of an emphasis would VCHA put on other countries besides US and maybe Korea. Considering their main branding has been as an American girl group in comaprison to Katseye who has been marketed as more global girl group leaning; would this influence their short term strategies in terms of locations to promote.
As for the star quality comment, not sure if you watched A2K but did you think anyone on that show has star quality? I think that was a definite contention in regards to Manon and so I wonder whether the contestant pool was subjectively all lacking star quality or they just maybe weren't chosen.
@@cloudchungxiao I did watch a2k and when it comes to star quality for a global group, non of the girls showed had that. Kaylee seemed to have star quality for a Kpop group. A2k was more of a "watch them become more developed in their talents". Honestly, jyp should have had western input, fbit he focused more on what Kpop or Koreans would like, which SIGNIFICANTLY reduced their audience. In the case of a non Kpop fan stumbling across VCHA, they would probably be unable to connect better compared to people who watch A2k and saw the girls become more skilled.
Ohh right. Could defs be another reason for the difference which is so hard to measure and really determine since it's so subjective. But yea, the lack of western input and greater emphasis toward Korean input has just lead to such a mish mash of elements from VCHA that don't properly work well to solidify that much of an fanbase.
It’s crazy how vcha never once got 1 million monthly listeners on Spotify but it makes sense when JYPE didn’t do enough so those outside of kpop would tune in. My friend who was abroad in the Netherlands messaged me suddenly about how they love Katseye and that touch and debut have become their new stimming songs.They had no idea about Dream Academy that formed Katseye and was still able to find out about them organically which is where JYPE fails vcha.
Yea, I didn't really follow either group's survival show so wasn't that invested in either. First time that I properly heard a snippet of VCHA was at an Itzy concert and then after that, it's been me actively searching them up. For Katseye, I kinda don't remember what it was but it was relatively organic where I initially didn't vibe with their music, but it would slowly grow on me. What kept me looped in while not being active was the documentary which I guess despite the negative reception; it really did bring more attention to the group.
I tutor a 12 year old girl. I showed her vcha and katseye. She thought both were good, but really loved katseye. Even listened to their other songs. She doesn't really listen to kpop but her best friend is a moa.
Oh nice, did she kinda elaborate her preference to Katseye or was it just based on the songs she listened that she vibed with Katseye more?
I love vcha down, Xo call me is my song, but katseye are doing everything right like they’re having live events, collab, and fashion brand deals, they’ve done more than vcha in their 2 month career, jyp just needs to take notes from hybe and geffen market team😭
same! XO, Call Me and Ready for the World are my fave songs from VCHA and I actually like their sound more than Katseye's. I just feel like Katseye did a lot more in terms of marketing, collabs and content to promote themselves. I wish VCHA had that kind of support from JYP, such a shame!
@@Tofunaga you like vcha more bc its kpop and you're a kpop fan. Katseye is catering to the western market, that is why they are more popular
Katseye is way more talented than vcha @@Tofunaga
@@Arkv-o1nyeah that’s due to hybe training the girls well in advance. Meanwhile for vcha, JYPE was just focused on getting the first “global” girl group title and didn’t put in the time and effort to properly develop one.
@@mariasol1545 What's wrong with liking VCHA?
Do you all sometimes forget kpop stans stan KATSEYE too?
Because theyre literally under a kpop company with kpop house names? 💀
katseye took years to build. vcha was like months. jype did not do their research.
Yea, I do really wonder how much research they did or whether it was another venture and potential cash grab? The Korean influence is really high with VCHA so idk to what extent did they get help from a western team.
As much as mean it is. Vcha just looks like a high school takent show group that's covering kpop songs. The members don't really have that star look that appeals to the western market, the west is just as picky as korea when it comes to visuals but the difference is that they're not that insanely blunt about it. Not to mention the styling they have makes them look like they're actors for skit youtube channels like Troom Troom or something.
I feel like as far as visuals go, the girls are fine. American beauty standards may be high, but they aren’t as standardized as they are in Korea. I don’t think that any of the girls would be considered “unattractive” here.
I personally think the bigger issue is with the styling / marketing. The high-school musical look and sound is not going to do them any favors here. When I think of popular Western girl groups - Destiny’s Child, Fifth Harmony, the Pussycat Dolls - none of em look like Vcha. The only one I guess would be the Cheetah Girls, which was surprisingly successful for what it was, but still.
@CherrieJellyBeanie Styling hasn't been a noticeable issue for me. Might be because it kinda matches with the concept and music that they are releasing but it might need something more distinct or elevated?? Might need to look more into that.
@@starsnoireartcheetah girls came from the Disney machine when it was at its peak. Same with Hannah Montana. I think Miley said Disney made over 1 billion dollars from the Hannah Montana stuff. Also the cheetah girls/3LW were dressed in what was popular at the time y2k. Also another thing is they had personality. The girls in VCHA lack charisma and all seem introverted and no one has a larger than life personalities. Raven had a larger than life personality (the reason she was such a it-girl as a child/teen) and the other girls were charismatic in their own ways too.
Vcha is not unattractive, their style is
One of the things that frustrated me about A2K was that many of the girls also seemed more comfortable with a girl crush concept but were ignored. Specifically, I remember how Lexi, Cristina, Gina, Camila, and Savanna all came alive during their stray kids covers as that style suited them more. Those were also fan favorite performances. It was so obvious they should go with that style but they just ignored it bc they’d already decided what concept they wanted.
exactly like
jyp ignored fans and gave us a western version of twice lmao
@@mariasol1545 thus why gina and cristina didn't debut
@@kadi_gnigue I was thinking the same thing. Seeing Vcha now especially in comparison to Katseye makes me think the JYP really rushed the formation of this group and has no idea what he’s doing.
Even though the HYBE crew blindsided the trainees by suddenly turning their training into a survival show, they at least tried to take some of the public’s reaction to each member / concept into consideration. I think that if JYP had really cared about Vcha’s perception in the west then things would have gone so differently for A2K.
@malikabrown2357 Ohhhh, didn't watch A2K but that's pretty interesting. Could the other VCHA members that you didn't list not completely suit the girl crush concept enough that JYP was kinda left with their current concept? Assuming that is correct then It's kinda giving Lightsum where half the members thrive such stark concepts.
@starsnoireart Yea, a kinda surprising but maybe not surprising thing about A2K was there was no fan voting which I wonder how that would have influenced the group. I wanna say from the Katseye documentary before the survival show was announced, Adela and Emily were pretty high up in potential members but when it came to the survival show, they just weren't received that well enough to make the line up. In saying that too, I think in Sixteen, JYP added Tzuyu due to viewer reaction and so maybe there was some kinda audience consideration but also potentially not. Don't really know if there was any major fallout when VCHA's line up got announced.
Vcha just lacked promotion and seems to be targeting a lost niche in the west which is the tween market. Kids nowadays listen to way to mature artists and thats cause barely anyone makes good art meant for the tween market. Disney is burning rn and its unfair that there’s a whole generation of kids that go from baby shark to ice spice☠️☠️☠️.
Damm, that's a perfect way of saying that: "lost niche." But yea, the transition from "baby shark to ice spice" is pretty accurate. There really isn't a natural transition for VCHA to kinda insert themselves a bit more seamlessly.
9:07 This is what I want for Katseye. They‘re a pop girl group, not k-pop. Give them an album with like 13-16 tracks, each song being around 3 minutes long (and not two minutes. And don‘t just remove the fucking bridge!!!!!!) and have them release 2 singles before the album drops. Just how it works in the western music industry.
Defs would be an interesting and different experience. I do remember watching a video about how Fifth Harmony had released an album every year during a certain period so Katseye's album eras may not necessarily be 4-5 year waits. That was the only consideration that made me a little iffy about doing something like that.
@@cloudchungxiao I guess Katseye could do it like Little Mix! Release two albums in two years, then take a whole year with touring and preparing the next album.
Little Mix released their albums like this:
DNA - 2012
Salute - 2013
Get Weird - 2015
Glory Days - 2016
LM5 - 2018
Confetti - 2020
Between Us - 2021
And I like that rhythm, where you still get albums frequently but it‘s not as overworking like it’s for groups such as TWICE.
I think that it's not only the fact that VCHA's music sonically seems to target a more tween audience but that the media that tweens consume nowadays is quite different compared to when I grew up, especially in the west (I'm English and born in 2004). In recent years, tweens gravitate towards presenting themselves in a more mature way and also consuming music from artists with a more mature image than that of a disney star. On the other hand, I grew up admiring disney channel stars and listening to songs from disney channel original movies. Therefore in the eyes of teenagers, VCHA might seem like the kind of group that they would want to be friends with whilst Katseye is the kind of group that they'd aspire to be due to their more girl crush image.
Overall, Katseye as a group seems to be made with the West's preference for girl groups with a girl crush image in mind. In comparison, VCHA reads more as a Kpop interpretation of a global group.
Personally, I like the difference in both of their music and images .🤷♀️ It keeps things interesting.
Katseyes and Vcha are targeted for international kpop fans, their sound is kpop in english, their sound isn't what is trending nowadays in Usa.
Both Katseyes and Vcha targeted young people and international kpop fans.
Both Katseyes and Vcha has kpop sound, that's what is the problem for Katseyes and vcha if hybe and jyp want non-kpop to like but i think their objective is just to target international kpop fans that's all.
Non-kpop fans won't listen to Katseyes and vcha, their sound are very kpop but just in english
I think Katseye is like somehow similar with pop groups like Pussycat Dolls
@@minjiinsunglasses Maybe but their sound sound really kpop like Vcha too, i don't think they appeal to non-kpop fans, they didn't adapt their sound to the West market...they go with kpop sound and what is trending in kpop nowadays Y2k sing in english for Katseyes and Vcha so i don't think they can win non-kpop fans like that, Katseyes and Vcha are targeted for international kpop fans that's all
spilling facts
@@newjeansfan238 oh my gosh can u stop with the "Katseye sound very kpop" my guy u know that's not true....go listen to the album or stop saying that😀
I feel like jyp should of recruited adults instead of literal kids for a global American girl group.
How old is Yoonchae?
@@j.4867 turning 17 in a few months, while Kaylee is turning 15.... Big difference
@@yawnzzniea And yet BOTH are minors, yes or no?
@@j.4867 yeah, but one isn't a middle schooler. Artists like Olivia Rodrigo, Britney Spears ,even debuted at Yunchae's age. But a 13 year old debuting is kind of unheard of and quite frankly, more dangerous. The range of VCHA is 14 to 19, while KATSEYE is 16-22.
I mean HYBE was also playing with slightly dangerous games considering Dream Academy did have some younger contestants around Kaylee's age. But yea, VCHA's concept lowkey emphasizes the youngness of Kaylee if it wasn't clear which is kinda a reminder of that.
in the future you should use clips relevant to what and who you’re talking about. how are you going to make a video about vcha and katseye and use clips of itzy and nmixx in the background?
Hahaha yea, I tried to do that but the copyright system was beating me up by blocking the video from certain countries and with each draft export taking one hour and a bit to fully complete, I thought it would be better to get the next best thing which was company associations. Might just find what other videos about them use next time. Maybe there might be some holy grail to find issueless videos.
VCHA is for like 16 and under
Katseye is for 16 and up
Yesss but I’m 17 and like Vcha
@@gwenmloveskpopandmore Grow up then because you shouldn't
Pretty accurate but I feel like there's like a small age group of like 13 - 15 where both groups are kinda vibed with in terms of general marketing of the groups
@@lawtraf8008 no I can if I want to you grow up
@@lawtraf8008 you can’t tell me what to do bye
I also think Hybe took notes from Blackswan tbh. I feel like Blackswans company not only made a kpop group wih no Korean members but also seemed to want the members to participate in festivals in their own countries to show off that diversity while also showing love to those fans. Having KATSEYE in korea and the Philippines and LA (3 home countries of the girls) shows the diversity while showing love to the fans in those places. I hope they get to visit different states and countries that the girls are from in the future, they have so many fans in different places. I think Hybe was influenced by blackswan which us smart because blackswan is a very unique group with very unique success.
Also the social media usage, Blackswan made use of livestreams and short form content a lot to attract fans. A lot of their viral memes are associated with kpop and helped people recognize the members. Although KATSEYE imo doesn't have any viral memes in the same way, I think using that content to create potential for that is smart.
Yeah I hope they can go to Atlanta and Hawaii where Gabriela and Megan are from eventually
Ohh damm, I didn't really think about Blackswan's influence to the formation and promotion of VCHA and Katseye. Defs see what you mean about the home country promotion but also VCHA and Katseye aren't Kpop like Blackswan is so idk to what extent would they have looked into them.
@@cloudchungxiao Blackswan, imo, opened the door for Kpop companies to actually take forming global groups seriously. Blackswan is an example of slow and steady wins the race. So even though Blackswan is doing a lot to establish themselves as a Kpop group first and foremost, I believe their emphasis on promoting their diversity and dedication to the craft of music and performance is what Kpop companies were probably taking from them when forming their own groups.
To put it into perspective, I genuinely don't think Dream Academy would've had Indian and Brazilian contestants if it weren't for Sriya and Gabi from Blackswan. Blackswan isn't going to be their direct competition in terms of global success, just that they're very obviously inspirational. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they were even mentioned during the documentary.
Lara also mentioned that she looked at fancams for inspiration during training, and being inspired by Sriya as an Indian girl in a Kpop label who debuted. They met during Dream Academy in Korea and recently did a livestream together!
Edit to add: Blackswan is currently nominated for a MAMA award!
Ohh potentially. I do defs see how they could have seen Korea's embrace of Blackswan as a sign that it's possible. Didn't properly watch the documentary so don't know whether Blackswan was mentioned. However, I don't think luminas made too much noise about this so don't feel like they were mentioned.
@@cloudchungxiao Maybe? I'd have to watch the documentary again. I think, if they were mentioned (again, have to check), Luminas didn't notice because they were also focused on Blackswan's Apple documentary as it went on to reveal what happened with the departure of the former members and talked about the Leia controversy.
Can you next time pls blend videos from the topic and not random kpop groups. For example vcha and katseye videos. It's a bit irritating.
no seriously right?????????????
Hahaha yea, I tried to do that. The videos that I was using kept getting blocked in certain countries as part of the copyright system. Could have maybe broken down the clips even more or continued to trial different videos but each export takes one hour and a bit so thought it would be better to get the next best thing which was company associations.
@@cloudchungxiao glad you tried but plenty of other creators use their clips so i’m confused…………….
If we look at the popular shows that have been directed at little girls in the west like the Bratz girls, Barbie, Winks club, Hannah Montana, The cheetah girls, etc... the one thing they have in common is that they’re made up of fashiobably dressed women who act in a mature but not sexualized way and certainly not childish. And they all have a very distinctive personality. This is exactly the kind of image Katseye portrays.
Little girls love to project themselved into those kind of role models, because this is what they hope of becoming when they grow up. This is why I disagree when people say Vcha’s concept would have worked years ago, because no, little girls have never loved that type of concept unless it was accompanied of a Disney show to distract themselves with.
Katseye is the exact kind of group tweens girls would have loved years ago and are gonna love now.
Maybe it's the subjectivity in interpretation but i could see VCHA being well appreciated by little girls. Don't feel like the whole projecting themselves is that strong of a thought to be choosing who they want to listen to. I think if it's a vibe, it's a vibe. Tweens though; that's a diff story and defs feel like they would be more intentional with that which Katseye would be who they would aspire to be.
Waiting for that joker with the name vchabetterthankatseye to comment on this video, lol.😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Is that an actual commenter or is there just some VCHA fans that comment on vides like these?
@@cloudchungxiao that (vchabetterthankatseye ) is actually a username 🤣 you can see him in every katseye related video spreading hate🤭
@@jbadasgats1054 Damn, they sound pathetic.
Ohh damm, it's that serious that they gotta name themselves that. But atleast they haven't mad an appearance so that's chill
Marketing definitely plays a huge part. If the company is producing a girl group aimed at the global market then the bare minimum is to do their research on the target audience group. Being a more polished group also helps. I don't know if any western fans would have patience/interest to see the group grow and develop from a highschool dance group. In the Japan idol industry possibly.
I haven't watched A2K or Dream academy but in terms of debut era, Katseye definitely has much more impact and influence on social media platforms. There was the netflix documentary which brought them a lot of attention. "Touch" has been quite successful as well. With Vcha, I remember them having a debut song but then not much since?
Yea, there has been a few comments about the lack of research of right teams within JYP to consider how to market globally or with consideration to a global girl group like VCHA. Would be interesting to see the BTS of VCHA through a documentary lense just to see what JYP Ent has done to actually push VCHA but also just understanding the decisions they have made.
what i love about KATSEYE is the actual diversity, having members from all over the world with strong fandom like india and the Philippines is very smart
Do you think if VCha also embraced their ethnic diversity, it would have the same impact? I do think coincidentally the ethnicities of Katseye do kinda help due to the increased prescence of kpop within the selected members area of ethnic origins.
I also wonder if VCha also have notable niche fanbases within their respective areas. Same with Katseye tbh. Like besides Philippines and Korea which we have seen Katseye appear, I wonder whether they have niche fanbases within the other members area of ethnic origins.
Feel like i personally dont like VCHA, because you can see so many groups like them, however katseye is unique and create more fresh music that stands out. Also, VCHA members are so so young, i feel like i dont really support them for their own good. We dont even expect people to pick their careers at 16, however theyre like even younger, i feel uncomfortable looking at idols so young where with adults like that in katseye, i feel like its their career and i dont feel like a creepy person 😔🫡🫡
Also, katseye represent fans of kpop from all over the world, so even if they want to see the members, they will discover and like their music and become supporters. Like i listen to them even when i dont listen to kpop that much! And thats their exact concept! 😅 and they got me in k-pop lol
Yea, I defs noticed the Katseye members do represent the notable international demographics that have a relatively large presence beyond the usual places. What do you mean fresh music?
@@cloudchungxiao something I haven't heard before within a k-pop girl group style setting
XG’s marketing is fascinating, would love a video like this for them (especially if you consider the dualities between the American and Japanese music industries)! I think you hit the nail on the head with the issues we’ve witnessed with Vcha. The name in particular…😬
The name?
@@cloudchungxiao …couldn’t help but think about lady parts the first time I saw the logo. Sorry for being weird lol 😅
Hmm i don't think it's about the marketing. Vcha doesn't have it. That so called "It Factor"
Katseye was a flop until they promoted in Korea. Their videos didn't pass 50k+ views before that. The marketing is important
@@noseqponer636 lmao it matters look what happened to vcha.they opened for twice concerts but still remain stagnant..haha see what happens when do you don't have it factor?? You can hardly gain fans. Katseye is flopped as you say when they are just 4 months old group but remained booked and busy, their mall showcase tickets in Mall of America in Minissota was sold out in 2 mins leaving the site crashed. Haha they are slated to perform at Jingle Ball in both Dallas and Boston. They are invited to perform at MAMA in Los Angeles.. and that was just in their 4rth Month after debut..who's flop now? Vcha could never. Hahahahaa
@@noseqponer636 and also get your facts straight next time. Their fanbase widen when they perform for the 1st time in Kcon LA. not in Korea lmao
@@rosyzhao_ph I'm not even hating ☠️
@@noseqponer636" katseye is flop"?? Yeah right.
Its so interesting how everyone and their mothers seem to making videos on vcha nowadays.
It’s kinda unavoidable since Katseye was / is their biggest competitor.
Because people are seeing how they flop while their direct competitor KATSEYE are very successful
Re: this video topic or more about VCHA's hiatus?
Katseye are older for mature audiences and teens, they've been around in fame for about five months performing in mall of America and other places also they have a huge fan base on Instagram tiktok and other social media platforms also VCHA is just a Disney backup of them but are currently on hiatus now.
I think it's because since they're both *global groups* , fans are more attached to Katseye because they have a more mature concept. Vcha is cuter, and that's not something you'd typically see out of the South Asian (Maybe even Southeast) music community.
To be targeted globally, a concept including mature concepts like westernized pop would be fitting; e.g. Katseye
JYP dreams about us market but fails agin and again
Would you consider Twice, Stray Kids or Itzy's venture to US a failure or would this be in relation to Wonder Girls and now Vcha?
Katseye looks more diverse which probably helps
The netflix show is huge. It introduces them to fans at scale (screens). And the top 10 of the 20 are probably equally talented except some are taller or have more eurocentric features. Their singing might matter more though since you can just tune it for concerts or downloads but not for netflix.
It would be interesting to see the % of fans that became fans of Katseye because they were announced through HYBE, % that became fans through Dream Acadmeny, % that became a fan because of the documentary.
Idk why everyone is astonished about the stark difference. It’s not that one is better than the other. It’s just that one has better MARKETING, than the other. That’s it. It’s all about marketing 😭
But its not just marketing. Its also clear that the style for vcha doesn't benefit them the best for appealing to the west.JYPE didn't do the proper research to see what the tween and teen audience listens to and unfortunately its not the music that vcha has been putting out. Vcha style works better as a kpop group rather than a western one since again it sadly can't thrive amongst teens as along as their tastes are still skewed towards more mature concepts.
Nope, KATSEYE is way more talented than VCHA by far. None of the VCHA girl would have ever made it to the top 20 of dream academy lol. We even saw in the documentary that Savanna from VCHA actually auditioned for Dream academy and didn't make the cut lol. She then auditioned for JYP A2k and made it there. Stop being delusional, their skills are at a completely different level.
@stxrry-night Idk if it's astonishment but I think the assumption of JYP and HYBE which are notable and influential companies who both are creating their own global groups using the Kpop training system; I think people thought they would follow similar journeys. Not identical but similar and so seeing the different receptions and standings is what is interesting to see.
@@dwftmyearth6166 this is marketing. Researching demographics and choosing an audience to target is a part of marketing. Hybe decided to market to international audiences first whereas JYP decided to market to the korean audience first.
@@lawtraf8008 that’s your opinion. Idc that deeply about either one lmao
There are a lot of key factors that unfortunately didn't help Vcha but benefits Katseye. I know people saying they don't have the same cincept so we shouldn't compare....but they bot have the same goal to reach and that is to target the gobla/western audience
1. Their image: For Vcha unfortunately they don't seem balanced out or blend together, I'm not a 100% sure what it is but they don't fit as a group visually......they all stand out from each other way too much...not in a bad way but not in a group way either...they seem like a kpop cover group almost which isn't a bad thing all together but for the goal their targeting that's not going to work...for Katseye on the other hand from their visuals to even their height it just works they stand out but fit in at the same time which is something u want in a group....look at groups like Little Mix and Spice girls...the same can be said for them too
Their Concept: This is something that JYP reallly didn't keep into account when making this group one bit cause the amrket his targeting doesn't listen to music or lioe concept like this...and if they do they moved towards kpop after the death of the tween/diseny era here in the west...so His doung a full circlr back to kpop by targeting a kpop auidence defating the whipe global group stuff.....for Kateye there a blend.....which is the point of the global group, their songs and concepts scream gen z as well as that girl group sisterhood that older girl groups had and it reflects in their songs, styling and hoelw they interact with one another. Both groups music also reflect from their concept.
To summarize cause I'm going on to lonh😂 sorry i agree with what u said in the video and how u arranged your thoughs....good video❤👍🏼 JYP rushed and didn't think Vcha through and it shows...he sairt shot himself in the foot with out thinking....but Hybe really really thought of thus project in the long run..literally using 2years and getting help and advuce from western comapmy and advisors and also listen to their audience and it shows as well
Yea, lowkey would be interesting to see like a VCHA documentary to really see what we are missing. Does feel like JYP rushed things but also do wonder how much effort did he actually put into trying to accomplish the goal vs accomplishing the goal with what he was given. Like imagine if they tried to personally tried to recruit more people beyond the casting call auditions.
I feel like vcha was rushed in order for JYP to say that they were the first to do it.
this didn't age well..😭
NiziU did pretty well so JYP went and go why don't we do that again but America, failing to realize that the Japan and Western market is vastly different.
What’s the intro song??😭🤍
Bad News by Kiss of Life :)
04:21 KatsEye didnt get the attention of US Teenagers or Young Adults of the USA unless you are an active KPOP fan or an American HYBE supporter who has an awareness. Example, if I asked a 1000 Los Angeles students from Unified Public School, only less than 30 students had heard about KatsEye. Less than 10 had followed. KatsEye is not the same level like Britney Spears, Pussy Cat Dolls when they released a song in the US, it made headlines and doesnt need promotions. For American, we find KatsEye quite conservative and was design on Asian Market. Not Western. Most Westerners like US were disappointed that who ever produce KatsEye didnt use their Vocal talent to the level of Beyonce or Celine Dion. And the way KatsEye dress up is so Korean Level not a POP Star. The only reason KatsEye got slowly raising its popularity most especially in Asia because of the NetFlix it gave awareness and Asian Tour Fan Sign and country's local tv sitcoms.
Yea, from reading the comments the main demographic does seem to be international kpo fans. Don't think the US was specifically the target area as they emphasized the group being a global group though.
Talking about vcha and katseye and proceed to show other gg
Hahaha yea, had to the next best thing which was company association. Was having trouble with clips that wouldn't block the whole video in certain countries. Really weird considering I'm not the only one who has done videos about VCHA or Katseye.
1. Vcha failed by going cute
2. They promote like a korean group.
But hey, I still think Katseye are too tame. Hopefully they go harder when all are adults
0:01 BAD NEWS
Vcha will comeback even though katseye is popular now , vcha will show . But pls dont compare vcha and katseye , it might upset there fans or the idols themselves if they come across all i want to tell is pls dont compare
But isnt it just funny this person is kind of supprting katseye than vcha i personally think this is not fair to make video like this like them deciding they popularity.
Well its just my opinion didnt mean to offensive anyone though but just tell me what you think about comparing groups thank you but i am not hating katseye or vcha
Just want a neutral perspective. Love KATSEYE AND VCHA ❤
I think it's pretty valid to compare if you can outline your perspectives. I always open to discussions if you believe differently. Don't really think fans should be upset if they actively choose to click on a video that's pretty blunt on the title about what it's about.
As for supporting Katseye more, Idk if that's what I'm doing. It's more that the video is focusing on the perceptive success that Katseye has been able to achieve in comparison to VCHA and thus it may lead to the idea that I support them more. However, it's just highlighting the difference which benefit Katseye only because I see their current direction as what they should both be at but aren't.
Jyp pushed to be the first and ended being the last lol
VCHA is NOT a global group. It's an AMERICAN Group. JYP will have 3 diffrent Groups
A2K (VCHA)
L2K (his Latin American Group)
And E2K (His european Group) He got Trademarks for E2K and L2K. That's why he only has americans in VCHA.
XG isn't kpop, they win international kpop fans but i don't think they win koreans fans, they promote little in South Korea in music show but is japanese, sing i english.
They work for international kpop fans but that's the problem with XG, Katseyes and Vcha they will succeed to win international kpop fans but not really koreans fans.
And one day if they won't succeed internationaly for international kpop fans, they won't have korean fanbase and won't succeed in South Korea.
Xg, Katseyes, Vcha i heard only international kpop fans who talk about them, little bought their album but i wonder if korean fans heard about them...
I think Katseyes and Vcha, koreans kpop fans heard about them because they're from hybe and jyp but i don't think they have solid korean fanbase like others hybe and jyp groups.
If they won't succeed internationaly, they won't succeed in South Korea with no really korean fanbase in south korea.
I'm sure for XG, if they don't have international kpop fans, they won't succeed in South Korea because they sing in english and don't have korean fanbase.
FYI, Most or at Least Some of the Native 🇰🇷 Pop 🎵🎶 Fans Nationwide Dislike XG for Being Based in their Own Country to Be Promoted Like a Typical K-Pop Group Only for International Fame But Refuses/Unwilling to Release at Least a Single Korean Language Song on Longterm Basis at the Same Time.
XG has international K-pop fans otherwise you wouldn’t here Shooting Star on a radio
@newjeansfan238 XG is subjetively Kpop because I wanna say there is no clear definition of Kpop based on the many discourse that I've seen re: what is kpop. You're kinda losing me in re: to what you're trying to say. Defs not an active fan to all three groups but I have seen them all being received well in South Korea. Wouldn't say it's anything big and strong enough to completely focus on South Korea but it's something where they could visit when they tour. As for the whole international kpop fan comment, the vibes are kinda not there. There's so much pessimism in your comments that your thoughts are always in the perspective of why they'll just not succeed. Not sure how much you follow them so maybe you know some more inside scoop or something but XG is doing well for themselves, Katseye are kinda doing there thing atm and VCHA; we'll just have to see how JYP Ent moves next.
@@cloudchungxiao No Xg isn't kpop, kpop is South Korea's market 1rst, Xg sing in english and Xg's market is international kpop fan, not really koreans
@@cloudchungxiao Xg is doing well not in South Korea well but is doing well internationally with international kpop fans! I doubt Xg has korean fanbase, they sing in english only, i don't even know if korean know them because even nugu korean group, korean don't know them
bro can y’all leave vcha alone and stop hating on them for something they have no control over
The comments or my video?
Thumbs down why are there ITZY videos and not KATSEYE or Vcha….
Here’s a tip. Next time put videos of the topic your talking about for example here it’s bc ha and katseye and not a random kpop group that has nothing to do with the topic your talking about.
Katseyes and Vcha have international kpop fans but not really korean fans i think and not really non-kpop fans.
Us non-kpop fans don't listen to Katseyes and vcha, they are unknown outside kpop fans for non-kpop fans and their sound aren't what is trending in Usa...
So i think it can work only for international kpop fans but won't work in Usa for non-kpop fans because of the sound etc..
A lot of people I know though like their song touch it’s really popular among non kpop fans
KatsEye kinda does but VCha meh
So I have to somewhat disagree
@@gwenmloveskpopandmoreIt can be loved for a few non-kpop fans but i want to say the sound of Touch and others Katseyes and Vcha songs are very kpop, not very pop and not very trending in USA.
Katseyes and Vcha can be loved by kpop fans but not in Usa market with what is trending in Usa isn't this kind of song, isn't y2k that is trending in Usa. It won't work in Usa with non-kpop fans i mean
@@newjeansfan238 it does but at the same time it doesn’t. Touch has actually been going viral for non USA kpop fans believe it or not it just depends on where u live in the U.S.
Vcha clearly stands out, their songs of inspiration, hopes, and dreams, is really unique. Katseye is just another girl group, don't get me wrong love Yoonchae, Manon, Sophia... Also Katseyes members all had huge followings before their debut, unlike Vcha. Also Vcha has minors from the USA, so they have to follow US rules for minors working. Vcha has significant hurdles, unlike girl groups in Korea, where their minors working doesn't have those restrictions. So really this comparison, is like comparing apples to oranges. Both are great and tasty, neither is bad. Why people would try to hate farm this is stupid, and just adds to the stigma of kpop fans being petty and fanatics, ie crazy.
noone is hating omg
Katseye stands out anytime and is more appealing to westerm audiences Definitely global fans compare kid bops not going to work on western market and vcha lack in star quality to say global they even white washing all black and brown girls no hate but need lot of training and correction to make them before releasing another music they are kinda twice English version in westerm market jyp debuted them being minor who's fault? she is too young to be in the global market People are more strict than Koreans debuting minors jyp literally rushed many things vchas songs are kid bops nothing else neither Koreans able to connect nor western so hard fact comparison will happen in future aswell
Sadly, VCHA needs a strong rebrand. The reason why KATSEYE is popular because their songs go well with the trends nowadays on Pop music and despite of Yoonchae being the youngest, they can go through concept that is age appropriate for both group and the audience.
VCHA however sounds like a Disney or Kidz bop group, it has the essence of Twice's concept in which I personally think doesn't hold a strong suit for an international group.
If vcha stands out well where they’re 11 million monthly listeners on Spotify 🤔
Girl..clearly you did not heard their other songs coz it has good meanings too. VCHA is very kpoppy (a kidzbo kinda way)to attract global fans especially supporters from West I'm not shocked that they failed in korean & western market 🤷♀️
I'm not a fan pf Katseyes and vcha neither, they target international kpop fans not South Korea. I Wonder if they will succeed because their sound is kpop but in english, we can hear that, they don't adapt the sound for Usa, Usa trends nowadays isn't that so for me Katseyes and vcha are targeted specifically international kpop fans that's all.
I Wonder if koreans are receptive of Katseyes or vcha because it's not really kpop targeted for koreans.
Katseyes and Vcha have international kpop fans but not really korean fans i think and not really non-kpop fans.
Us non-kpop fans don't listen to Katseyes and vcha, they are unknown outside kpop fans for non-kpop fans and their sound aren't what is trending in Usa...
So i think i can work only for international kpop fans but won't work in Usa for non-kpop fans because of the sound etc..
Nahh.. why dont you check the first fan meet of Katseye in LA, there was already a long queue… that was just 2-3 weeks after the released Touch. I would presume the fans have increased by now, just like how their monthly listeners in Spotify increased to 11.4million listeners in 3 months.
I just knew they will become very famous even before they debuted. Katseye is a group full of talents and star quality. Period.
so many things wrong on your comment about katseye lol
1. they target INTERNATIONAL FANS, not just KPOP fans.
2. the reason why their songs sound kpop, is because most kpop songs nowadays are WESTERNIZED. if you look at the credits of every KATSEYE song, the producers are very HUGE in the West. also, subjectively their songs remind me a bit of Pink Pantheress and older American Pop music, like (2013-2016ish). The sound of USA that you are talking about was the sound KPOP has been adapting through these years.
3. They have non-kpop fans actually. I'm not even closely following them but their Asian/American shows recently were packed with both NON-KPOP and KPOP people.
4. Just because they aren't trending as much in the US as most mainstream Pop is, does not dismiss that they are INTERNATIONAL. International or global literally means around the globe LMAO. Check out their song Touch, which has been trending GLOBALLY, and you'll see what i mean
you're welcome eyekons. :3
@@hazelnuts They can have a few non-kpop fans but won't succeed in Usa in Usa market with this type of song y2k that is trending in Kpop but isn't trending in Usa!
Most of Katseyes fan are internationale kpop fans, not non-kpop fans. And if Katseyes won't have international kpop fans, they won't succeed in Usa with their sound that isn't adapt to Usa market nowadays.
@@newjeansfan238 not arguing further with you, but y2k isn't the only sound KATSEYE has. just because you are a fan of NewJeans, and y2k is huge in kpop. they will thrive in the US market for sure, without even sticking to a certain genre throughout their entire career. reread my #4. have a good day.
@@hazelnuts Lol i'm a kpop fan but i'm realist, not too delu like you, we can't see the future but even if kpop is more known than before in Usa and international that doesn't mean they can succeed to Usa. A lot of non-kpop fans hate kpop, don't like kpop, don't like boysband and girlsband.
West and East market are different. Katseyes is a girlsband with sound that is too y2k but mainly too kpop.
It isn't like destiny Child etc, if you want to be just too optimist, too delusionnal, do what you want lol but that's fact: Katseyes has kpop sound in english that's all to appeal to international kpop fans!
Their sound isn't adapt to Usa market what is trending now in Usa! That's a fact!
Katseye managament is bwtter but if were tlsking about talent then its vcha clearly katseye cant sing live have u haed their mr removed 👀
They can sing live. It’s the choreo they’ll get better at that though
They sing live go watch weekly idol😅
"katseye can't sing" have you seen their live performance? 💀💀
😂😂 🤪 who you fooling
They can't sing live ? Seriously !? 😂