I respect her so much, Her walk while grabbing her acceptance letter was c*nty asf, like that girl really took it with not an ounce of joy on her face and then quit right afterwards LMAO. Then the show runner had the audacity to be like "lexie really would've been the perfect idol to have in the group" like girl maybe if you hadn't intentionally stirred the pot that wouldn't of happened
not really because she could have given up her spot to the two who were eliminated. either that, or she could have just left right then and there. the way she rolled her eyes when taking her ticket was very unprofessional and was just a bad look for her. it wasn't the girl boss moment she thought it was.
@@madisonk5240 girl what! it definitely was a boss moment for her she saw how messed up the situation was and how the producers were stirring the pot. she saw that and didn't like it and left, that takes guts
@@madisonk5240 The reason she left is literally because of what they made them do that day and how they were turning them against each other so how would she have known to quit before the elimination. And she hadn't waited, she told them right after the elimination that she wanted to quit but they made her stay because she was binded by a contract so she instead just stopped showing up and putting any effort into it until they didn't want her anymore. I found it very "girl boss" because she stuck by her morals and what she truly believed was right even though it'd hurt her chances at success
I mean it was a competition to make a girl group not a vacation when they signed the contract the girls should have known this is a competition they had to compete like the survival shows in kpop
The fact that they gave a « psychologist » to teen girls who truely need someone safe to debrief complicated stuff with and that their conversations were FILMED AND THEN BROADCASTED. Wtf
there's certain agreement when you joined the program and i'm sure this is just one of them, just because it looks weird to most of us i feel like the girls had a say about it, especially when you look at adela's proud face everytime she talks about manon lol
reality shows do this. american idol used to have a psychologist that was out there with the solo purpose to instigate and create tension. i feel so bad for these girls because they didn’t even know it was a survival show at first.
Tbh I hated the fact that none of the girls knew that this was going to be a survival show. I feel like if they were told that it could possibly be a survival show in the beginning, the girls would’ve had more time to process this instead of it being thrown at them. I’m also not sure if I even like the fact that the whole world got to vote. It seems like all of these girls put in so much effort and tried their hardest, so for people to vote solely based on a 2-3 minute singing/dancing video is not the move Hybe should’ve went with in my opinion. I think the instructors and the teachers should’ve picked.
That's the issue with general audience voting in general, people don't vote for cohesive teams, they just vote for their faves. It doesn't matter if that particular fave can't sing, dance or rap and negligible stage presence to save their lives and idols who work hard and are exceptionally skilled and talented can lose their opportunities because they aren't as pretty or they don't have a marketable personality or the audience just likes another contestant more.
Totally agree like they worked so hard thinking they'd get it if they improved enough e.g. Adela but weren't liked unfortunately. I get she was kinds obsessed with blaming Manon but if she wasn't, there is nothing that could justify her being cut out of teh group saw this with that older gurl in XG doc as well, they keep her as the mother figure to help them grow and just cut them out because "soloist energy" .sounds like an excuse shouldn't that be something that they figure out earlier
My theory of the crime is that HYBE really did initially intend to start a real T&D department but the way American corporate budgets work forced a major shift. They don't want the overhead costs and staffing costs that come with a real T&D and full time staff is always the first thing that gets cut in American budgets. Training is the second thing that always gets cut. The other thing is that tech platform projects are always prioritized over everything else - especially when an org is reorging and people are making plays for secure executive jobs. The reason why the survival show made no sense was that it wasn't really a survival show, it was a mass layoff and a G2M sprint for Weverse. The contestants who succeeded the most in voting were the contestants who most successfully onboarded the most users for Weverse. If the voting had not required creating accounts or downloading an app or whatever, it would have looked completely different. There is a direct correlation between the markets that Weverse adoption was a lower ask and the voting. It is not a coincidence that the documentary premiered now as opposed to when the voting was happening or when Katseye debuted. It's premiering along with the expansion of premium tiered subscription fees for Weverse and a company reorg that is doubling down on the idea that HYBE is a tech company, not a music label, to investors and shareholders. Pop Academy comes off like a terrible advertisement for Katseye because it isn't an advertisement for Katseye, it's an advertisement for Weverse and designed to increase engagement on Weverse.
lexie was so so so mature and admirable to recognize how toxic and twisted it was to put these girls into a training program, and turn it into a show without their prior knowledge. Lexie knew she didn't align with being put up against her friends so she left. Love her for that ♥
I watched the doc just now and I was absolutely shocked!!! I didn’t know the girls didn’t know it would be a survival program. I feel absolutely angry that they did that to these girls….
@@onyeka.g3literally i’d be beyond pissed dragging everyone even if i’m not online if that happened to me. 2 years wasted following an un-achievable dream that was said to be in my reach. that situation is too sad distic
the best thing of the series is lexie. most ppl question her decision to leave after the show eliminates 4 girls, thinking she should've hold on to the opportunity the fans gave her. but through this docu, i came to respect lexie's decision, bcs the show's producers are just evil and cruel. at this point i think hybe didnt care about the image of the company nor individual members, they just want more noise for the group, whether the noise is positive or negative.
survival show groups are full of them because ppl latch onto their picks or picks that didn’t make it in or did and they see it as them and their pick(s) against the world 😮 very weird behaviour
this was such an awful move like they should’ve released this later in their career 😭😭😭 Edit: stop responding to this, even I disagree with this take of mine lmao. Only leaving it up cause It got 3.7k likes
it’s just so confusing why they would pretty much open the door for sophia and lara to receive backlash for the documentary when katseye just now released their first album, especially considering how much ppl were already manon solo stans anyway
Same for Lara aswell they throwing huge hate towards Lara and Sophia these solo stans from the beginning behaving so toxic thinks everything is around Manon same during da where other girls felt not worth even performing so hard because anyhow the one popular one will get in.
@@serenitysubs933 exactly, both parties made mistakes and did things they shouldn't have as all people their age do so we shouldn't hold what happened in the past against them when they've clearly moved on.
Why has everyone suddenly gotten brain dead??? I was pleasantly surprised with how real the doc was. Made me like all the girls even more by showing them as complex people, as opposed to the sugar coated one note idol. It is not hard to understand the drama between Manon vs the girls. Obviously they would be pressed that someone putting in the least effort, is getting the most reward. They sorted it out and now they're all good. THE END.
I think kpopstans just can't handle and face the reality of grps/kpop grps, since they are used to seeing them with perfect image n good friendship and this doc just shed the reality of it. I am not surprised the reaction of kpopstans, since probably just watched some clips from twt/tiktok and they just decided to hate on them (especially on lara, sophia, n manon).
Yesss I agree with you, I liked the realness of this show compared to shows like Nizi project where all trainees are always portrayed very 1 dimensional, always so supportive of each other like cmon we all know there is competition and tension between the contestants
You need to remember that the large majority of kpop fans that will start staning a new kpop group are in middle school or high school and even some in elementary school. So, The people behind the documentary should have considered that fact. At the age range, critical thinking skills have not been developed. It’s the documentaries fault for not being edited for the real target audience (9-20) and not their desired audience (16 and older). Its my observation as a kpop fan/listener for the last 10 years
It would be kinda funny that Bang scared away his fave (Lexie) due to his own company’s amoral tactics if she wasn’t also my fave. I hope she’s thriving in whatever she chose to do after this. You know it’s bad if someone quits like that.
I agree 1000% ...I kept seeing TikToks about this whole Manon v Sophia, Lara, Adela etc. My sister and I legit thought they were bullying and ostracizing Manon till we watched the documentary I'm so annoyed at HYBE, and that lady (after the 2 mission) who kept saying they did that to the girls for drama and entertainment...and they completely blindsided and lied to the girls by making them join a survival show. Lexie was so mature for standing on her morals and values towards the matter and I respect her for that.
THIS!!! so many props to Lexie for being mature enough to leave a toxic environment after seeing how the executives did this is a spiteful way... she left behind such a good opportunity not only for her well being but out of good morals
I’m going to be honest with y’all right now. Not everything is black and white, sometimes there’s this gray area where people can be both wrong and right. From the other girls perspective it really did look like Manon wasn’t giving it her all in terms of showing up to dance practice because, at first she really wasn’t. She even mentioned with her own mouth that she was going to stay home with her sister because she “didn’t feel like going to dance practice” (this was before she was absent due to COVID). We saw how this affected the other contestants in her group, the staff and dance teachers ability to function. They had to learn the dance without her and the dance teacher had to make decisions regarding her absence. So yeah they had a right to feel a certain way about her work ethic, however, what was not okay was everyone continually talking about her behind her back and holding a grudge. It would have been best if someone decided to talk with Manon as a group before they let it get to that point because all of that miscommunication manifested into anger and strained relationships between Manon and the rest of the girls. (Side note: I do appreciate Sophia for going to Manon multiple times about her absences)! After hearing all the things people were saying about her, Manon had to organize the meeting and I appreciate her for taking accountability and stepping up in the end. The fact that this whole situation has blown out of proportion makes me so angry. At the end of the day nobody is perfect and I wish K-pop stans could see that.
i mean the girls didnt do anything to the general public, LOL they don't need to be forgiven for anything unless its between themselves. general public just has to move onnn
"They go from believing that everyone around them has the ability to debut as long as they work hard enough, to the prospect that they will probably be eliminated for factors beyond their control-" The way I hate it so much that this is literally every single company a person will work for. Whether it's kpop or a retail job. A lot of employers seem to enjoy toying with you emotionally so far to see whoever is still willing to stick around despite clear judgement and critique for things far beyond your control. This is definitely something I learned taking on multiple different jobs as an adult.
Hybe really does need to stop with the documentaries; at this point they’re doing more harm than good. Which could be their intention, if they follow the school of thought, that any attention is good attention. Keeping the competition aspect a secret was so underhanded and cruel. By not telling the girls that, it greatly damaged intergroup relationships between the members and contestants. It seems like Hybe and Geffan had no qualms about sabotaging the reputations of the girls, if it brought more attention to the show Two truths can coexist, and I believe nobody was in the wrong. It’s heartbreaking to see Manon being scapegoated for the unfair set up of the show; and it’s wrong for Sophia and Lara to be getting hate by showing their feelings. People always want authenticity from Idols, until they show that their human. Great video as always!
Why should they stop ?? Documentaries are meant to tell your stories and struggles .just cause Kpop community is too dumb to understand the concept doesn't mean they should stop.
This is so easy to understand. I will never understand kpop stans or whatever for being so incapable of adding up 1+1.. no one is in the wrong here and all the girls feelings are easy to understand and valid! People like you that make these videos are so important in kpop these days.. because these people wont understand the obvious unless someone explains it to the tea like this..😭
Literally, I thought it was obvious it was a bts doc that was supposed to show the raw parts of the industry in a new light and how it affects the idols, part of that being the high pressure situation putting them in a hard position with relationships and stuff yet Kpop fans find a way to misconstrue, twist, and make this situation into something not even remotely close to what was happening (like those 8 second clips on tik Tok of the doc that show a part of the doc out of context) And the way their fans switched up is crazy
I feel like the nuance some of the stans forget is that a) all of the girls were between the ages of 15-22, so they aren't fully matured adults yet b) not all of the girls arrived at the same time, so the dynamics will just be different due to lack of familiarity c) they were all under insane stress with their scheduling (Iliya literally said when Manon arrived that they are so busy they can't even think to miss their family and sometimes don't talk to them for one or two weeks) and then the competition. All that is a breeding ground for miscommunication, misunderstandings, and drama. What's important is that they seem to get along better now and they talked it out. Anything else is none of our business
@@empressfreya9872 all their reasons were valid. If any of us at any age were in their situation and someone like Manon came, we would‘ve been hurt and stressed. Literally everything is common sense as the video explained but Kpop stans need wars i guess
@@Funa_TakayaManon isn’t even my bias and even I can see that the hate she got from the other girls was a bit unwarranted.. like you said their feelings are definitely valid, putting in so much work only for the vote to be global and not up to like staff and management, but at the same time that isn’t Manon’s fault. It would be a different story if she was like stuck up or something, but she just seemed friendly and really quiet. This was just a terrible situation overall
Finally, someone with critical thinking skills. Imagine you're a teenager, you get told you've been sleected to be a trainee for two very famous labels, you're flown halfway across the world (in most instances as most of the girls were international), you work extremely hard (8 hour practice days) for 1- 1 1/2 years away from your family and THEN are told that wait, you're actually in a survival show so nothing you did before this point really matters as much as online attention. Manon, who I love, due to feeling overwhelemed and being scouted without previous industry experience- and therefore not fully aware of the demands of this industry- is more lax with turning up to rehearsals than other girls, and doesnt live with them. This creates a divide. THEN she ends up one of the most popular contestants, and to the girls who've been working hard for 1-1 1/2 years it seems so unfair, as they cant really control how the public chooses to vote and it feels they wasted all that time in their life. People watch the docu with no critical thinking skills, and then go on to either call Manon lazy or a 'dozen' (without taking into account she had NO EXPERIENCE PREVIOUSLY) and the other girls as 'mean girls' for asking Manon to work harder or being frustrated witn the situation in a psychology group meeting. We will never understand the pressures these girls went through back then. The girls themselves talked about it ON THE SHOW, which everyone should remember was mid- late LAST YEAR. Manon decided to throw everything into the project and became extremely hard working and even spoke to the girls and had accountability, and the girls all moved on. They adore eachother now. Tell me you've never had an argument with your friends and might have been shady? Tell me you've never felt intimidated and tired and maybe skipped a few days of school/ training for whatever? These girls are real. I love all of them and happy to support them because they're so insanely talanted. I just need KPOP fans who are used to not seeing these fights which DO HAPPEN with their faves, to use critical thinking skills.
Plus, we hear so many stories about idols/trainees struggles with mental health, a lot of them mentioning depression and/or anxiety. issues with mental health can be extremely tolling, it’s not uncommon for one to feel a loss of interest or a general apathy towards carrying out obligations or even favored activities
I mean most of the girls had no experience … that’s kind of the point of the show!! Some of them had natural talent but nobody was experienced and nobody who entered as an original candidate had ever trained like this before. Manon had private training as soon as she was scouted, and she joined before Lara, who yes was a talented singer but had not trained like that before. I think people make too many excuses for Manon’s lack of discipline and engagement in the process.
I watched the documentary, i think that manon is wonderful, but i totally understand the girls' side. It's like studying hard for a test and seeing someone who skipped all their classes do well, it's a valid feeling, but the most K-pop fans really like drama and HYBE was really stupid to think that some scenes couldn't be just cut. I really hope this doesn't affect the group. All the girls have a lot of potential and talent. Manon said at the end of the documentary that she really didn't have much discipline and wasn't used to training so hard like the other girls, so she recognized that she learned from what happened, that's what matters.
It’s not jealousy, it’s frustrations. She’s disrupting the practice flow and the other members were practicing so hard like their life depended on it and someone fvcked it up when they decided they wanted to come in today. If it’s jealousy then Sophia wont be confronting her and encouraging to go show up, practice and up her game. She just let her fall and be stagnant for the rest of her trainee life.
Honestly I always had this thought: how do you go from training in direct competition to each other to being in a group with these members that maybe you dont get along like this or kicked people you liked better or think were more your friends or you think are more talented. Even without a survival show you live together as trainees and then the next day you are expected to all get along great and get to a good team dynamic
Yeah, I think the documentary depicting real idol life is why it's important. I think it's meaningful art that should be protected against people that want to stir up shit. As for the answer to the question, I think competitive sports are a decent analogy. I've been the last player to make a team and I've also been the last player cut. I think when teams start playing games people forget about what happened during tryouts because it's not important anymore, and I imagine Kpop is similar. You just have to move on.
I don't know how it is in other companies but in JYPE personality is very important. In fact, that's probably the most important criteria to be selected. So I think they really evaluate them in a way that shows who is capable to get along with other members, being responsible and stay humble. I can't guarantee if it works all the times as I don't know the reasons behind Woojin and Jinni going solo but it definitely worked for Twice, NiziU and Itzy as a whole (the first two got formed trought a Survival Show)
For instance, you can see during Sixteen's final episode that Jeongyeon was so shocked when Minyoung (the best vocalist of the show and close friend to her, Nayeon and Jihyo) didn't make it into the final line up. She was so shocked that she was spacing out, she didn't even congratulate Momo and Tzuyu at that time however she gets along with both of them and with all members since the beginning. The reason is that she was always a very caring person who also happens to be a prankster, so eventually everything worked out even if a closer friend at that time (and someone more vocally talented) was eliminated. Nayeon and Jihyo were shocked too just not as much as Jeongyeon but they are very caring as well
Tbh I think it takes time. Years and years of living with someone will help iron out those issues. I'm an Enhypen fan and I swear after they debuted when the survival show ended, it felt so awkward seeing them together and around each other. But 4 years later and they're literally a family. The good thing about kpop is they make you live together and you end up naturally becoming closer and having a "team" mentality. Groups like fifth harmony didn't live together and had lives outside of the group so it's easier to see division there. Also, because Katseye has a lot of kpop fans, their natural competitors will be other kpop groups. And since there's so much competition, it's easier to form a team bond if that makes sense?
The simplest, easiest, and most effective answer is timing. These girls have been together for 1-2 years. They all care for each other in some aspect. Once it became the final 6, you learn, accept, and realize that these are your people and this is your team. This is why the show ended in November but they didn’t debut until June. They were given a full 6-7 months with JUST these people. Just by nature, your connection furthers more than ever. The good news is that they don’t have to be the best of friends to work. My friends and I are a group of 6 (originally 11) content creators. I have 1 person who is my best friend and the other 4 I love, but it’s not the same. It doesn’t change the fact that we are still close and work well together. It also doesn’t mean I don’t miss the other 5, but hey, life happens and this is my team now
Exactly ! Manon, Sophia or Lara aren't villains. Manon didn't show up in a lot of practices and rehearsals (not only because she was sick, she wasn't sick all the time) and also had to move out because she wasn't respecting the dorm rules. So I understand the frustration of the other girls. Even the trainers were saying that Manon implication was lower. BUT ! Manon took accountability, she showed maturity by having a talk with girls and promising to make efforts. This documentary was... em... The fact that the trainees didn't know they were doing a survival at first really shocked me. Let's take the example of Emily. She was ranked 1 in dance and 3rd overall. With the survival thing, she got to rank 17 because of the vote and eventually ended not debuting when she could have without the survival. And also filming their therapy session ? Seriously ? that's gross.
@@elfy2006 the K-pop is so incredibly toxic when the show is coming out the amount of horrible stuff I saw about the girls online was so disgusting. They really should’ve just kept it to the judges.
It was because people didn’t think she was as pretty (she is!) which is unfair, she’s talented. She worked harder, but they’d rather someone with less ability who fans want
@@bolng8958When will people realize that life isn't fair and that you don't deserve anything. Talent and hard work isn't enough in the industry. They chose the people who will make them the most money. Emily also didn't fit in with the rest of the group, she is shorter. It's not just about talent, it's about being a good fit
everyone is so afraid to say that Manon was popular because she's pretty and her skills became completely unimportant the moment audiences started voting. i appreciate that she started working harder, but i do not blame the other contestants for being pissed that she got to live their dream while not being as consistent as they were.
@@jermainerodgersi think the main reason y sophia was so irritated was because adele got eliminated because they seemed to be best friends. i’m pretty sure she thought she was gonna debut with her but couldn’t
But some of these contestants had been training for 12 to 18 months even before Manon arrived. Why wasnt that seen as "unfair" as well? The whole situation was "unfair" but at least Manon's popularity was organically earned contrary to the trainees, who had a more systemic advantage. Which is why I think the reall villain of the show is the management/production company. They are treating these girls like garbage imo.
@@moustik31"manon's popularity was organically earned" and it's literally just due to her pretty privilege 😭😭 what kind of point are you even trying to make
The show gave me the ick. My top icky moments: -When the girls didn't know about it being a survival show and by the time they found out it was too late for many of them too back out -When the fans and management implied Emily was not pretty enough -When Iliya lost points because the fans she looked 'too mature' (why are they so obssessed with debuting kids??) -Manon not putting enough effort (even before she got sick) and yet coasting by on looks. And when the girls complained or were understandably frustrated by that, they were portrayed as bullies/mean girls -The girls being forced to use their own social media to promote themselves, even those whom were not completely comfortable/used to promoting themselves like that. T And my biggest one: -when the manager said fans can be very possessive of them and they should welcome that. Like WHAT?!!! Many of them are minors too!
I watched the whole thing - I think all the girls seemed fine, certainly not villains. Sophia and Lara were the first to speak up, but they were some of the first to reconcile --they just come off as honest to me. Manon was also very open and honest as well, putting in the work to make things right. All this to say, I'm not particularly a kpop fan, but I do think it's unfortunate if it is coming off in a negative way.
The only “mean girl” here is hybe lol it's understable to the girls feel that way over a competiton based on public votes and it's 100% true that some people vote for the prettiest one instead of the talent (i'm not saying manon isn't talented bc I didn't watch any video of the survival show, i'm talking in general) but the problem is what the heck hybe were thinking with including these scenes in the documental, after the group debuted, yes they're getting attention due of this drama but are they gonna to get real fans or hybe's favorite thing: money? It's hard because now pontencial fans are going to have a bad image of the group based on what people is saying on social media
I feel like alot of the solo stans are using this as an excuse to put unwanted hate on the other girls, like this was almost a year ago and you see that the girls genuinely care for each other, get over it.
I knew Manon solos hate Sophia since dream academy bec Sophia received 14 votes from other trainees while Manon only have 1 votes. so Im not surprised they are against Sophia. I dont know whats their beef with Lara though 🤔
6:55 heavy on this Manon took the bullets that girls felt about this whole situation and that’s why I can’t be mad at anyone. Manon did get unfair treatment from the girls but if I look in the girls pov I would have been bitter too and probably would have been the same. I’m competitive as hell and even been in a similar situation with track when I was younger (cus this girl was skipping practice but she was the most popular on our team) and my reaction wasn’t mature to say the least. But this is a while ago. People grow and people need to get over it esp cus half the people fighting don’t care about manon at all let alone even stained the group
@@kpopisenoughI been mentioning this a lot too and they know but they don’t care. Competitive teen girls can get into lil cat fights. It happens. You mature and get over it
@@fyori7376because people will perfer someone who draw attention, rather than someone who works hard, like how some people say sakura was only put in le sserafim because of her popularity
@@fyori7376 they literally said it's the competitiveness. you put in a shit ton of hours to be the best and here comes someone who doesn't show up, doesn't do the work, but gets rewarded for the behavior. it feels like everything you did to get better is worthless. why bother training when "bad" behavior gets reinforced?
Manon's popularity came in part (IMO) due to one comment from a judge who said something to the effect if "she's good but she needs to get serious and show up if she wants to continue on" and to me, in a competition that deliberately gave us as viewers absolutely no context to the contestants beyond performances, that felt like an "evil edit". A way for us as viewers to side against her, because there was no context to her absences. I haven't watched the doc, but I'm shocked to learn that they didn't know they were in a competition. What an ugly situation for Hybe to put them in.
In the end they gave us context on her absences. The seriousness part was mainly because she was breaking rules (being late, not respecting curfew) and literally not taking it seriously by skipping lessons when she was just not feel like going sometimes. But there is also a misunderstanding because she thought classes were not mandatory… and her morale regarding her skills set took a tool fs it’s really complicated, which is sad. and after all this she even got sick with COVID mess😢
Even worse, they didn’t know for the first eight months it would be a competition show w votes, and then suddenly they knew. So like in the beginning, they were only being judged on their skills and how hard they were working, by their maybe future bosses… Like for example, that little blonde Emily who got cut in the finale, she was in first place almost every week before they knew it was a voting show, because she was such a good dancer and always friendly and nice at practice and everything, so the executives loved her most… then suddenly she went from that & being the sure thing, to being near the bottom of 20 in fan votes they weren’t expecting. So when it suddenly became a fan voting thing it also then affects the judges because obviously even if they really like someone they’re not gonna put them in the group if all the fans hate them lol because they want to make money from the fans… So like take Manon who already came in with 2 million social media followers… before it was fan voted, she was near last place all the time bc she was new at everything… but then they open fan votes and she has 2million ppl who recognize her lol… same with some others… so how can you compete w that as a brand new unknown person… So not only was it a talent and hard work competition from the start, just judged by execs like is normal for a musician, but suddenly it was fan voting so obviously a popularity competition too bc they were voting based on looks and social media presence which wasn’t as much considered in the early days w just hybe. It totally changed overnight for them all, not even just in how it was going but like some ppl went from top to bottom & vice versa.
This is why you should've watched the doc like the many others. She kept missing the rehearsals and there was even one time she was with her sister and missed practice 'cause she felt like it.
I agree! I was so confused by the overall tone of the show, it felt like they were glorifying the psychological torment of the girls! It was more of a commentary on the unfortunate amount of gravitas social media seems to have on society at large, I thought the girls did their best encountering something traumatic.
@@jaco2174 people react differently to situations. Some take the chance to put in work 24/7 to catch up. Others see just how far behind they (think they) are and lose all confidence and start to wonder if they even have the right to be there. It's a personality thing. What's important is that she woke up and did the work
I believe Manon actually just knew from the start that shes debuting no matter what so she barely showed up which is kinda understandable for the other girls to be sour
Not sure if the girls knew but the directors definitely knew. They knew who was debuting from the beginning. Okay, Sophia from episode 1 was told by the reps she had leader vibes, she was always at the top of evaluations and was coaching all the girls, talking to them like she was their big sister, and she was talking to Manon as if she had already debuted and she was the leader. Manon on the other hand had the stage Prescence, visuals and singing abilities which made everyone want to vote for her. Daniella was immediately singled out from the rest due to her early dancing career and Latin heritage. The coaches saw something in her they saw in themselves They always knew
Yup the only thing that wasn't in their cards was Lexie (Bang's fave) quitting which lowered the shorter girls' chances (Emily, Ezrela, etc) but increased Megan and Daniela's even when they scored lower in fan votes.
it’s honestly so ANNOYING that everyone is only focusing on the NEGATIVES of the documentary. cos this whole manon situation wasn’t even the main focus of the series. their was so many WHOLESOME moments and i loved watching all the members relationships progress as well as their training. UGH
That was Hybes intention from the start. Wanting people to only talk about the negative shit, because drama sells sadly. A lot people enjoy that. I mean, theres a reason as to why the media loves to capture celebs worst moments, focus on the fights, edits interviews, questions about their personal life and the main focus are their mistakes, etc. Don't agree with it, but thats just how it works.
Thank you so much for this omg. Like I don’t understand how people refuse to understand other perspectives and refuse to actually try and understand what was happening.
people acting like the members can't grow from their mistakes. Like it's been a year I am sure the girls have talk it out with each other and are okay now
The amount of betrayal and backstabbing Lexi must have felt when the whole show was turned into a survival game thingy. It was too toxic for her, even the low ranks made her lose hope in something she was working so hard for. If the competition voting was left to the judges I think the lineup may had been different, however I do love the lineup more than anything. In terms of aesthetic, skill wise, visual appeal and presentation. My bias is manon. As a black girl I love her more than anything but I have to be honest about some things and I will not make the other girls look bad because of my love for manon, I will not cause more misunderstanding than this show already is because I will speak the TRUTH and the truth only, I hate to sugarcoat things. Looking at the behind the scenes to me, it felt manon didn’t take the show as serious as she was supposed to(compared to how the other girls did). I mean to be frank she missed practices cus she was sore, which shouldn’t be an excuse cus everyone gets sore and she lived separately from the girls. Heck, the girls didnteven get to know her becus of that! She thought it was okay to JUST skip practice. She formed zero relationship w the girls and also executives who were all training her. So to me, I don’t think the girls were being mean when they Voiced out their opinion to their psychologist. I mean what then is your psychologist meant for? they were simply speaking the TRUTH. which is valid to me for someone who worked hard like Adela, after seeing the behind the scenes she really isn’t this mean girl None of the girls were mean, especially when it comes to Sophia and Lara. Sophia mentioned that she did talk to manon about it but manon was still not there for them when they needed them. This is normal human behavior to someone you do like but their actions seem otherwise but at the end of the day, I’m glad that manon had a meeting with all the girls and this brought out some sort of extreme character development for her. Ever since she had that meeting, that was when she started getting close to the other girls and that was when she understood the amount of dedication and commitment it took to become an artist. She was mature have that meeting with them and most importantly she was brave to admit her wrongs and apologize to everyone for it. This is why she debuted because she reached a level of character development that complimented her star quality and her skills did improve over time. I’m happy she debuted, couldn’t imaging any one else in the lineup than my girl manon❤
I agree there are no villains except the producers who lied to the girls. Plus these are all very young girls and inexperienced in the industry or having jobs. I felt sick they were taken advantage off. All of them were miss treated by this company. All their behaviors and frustration are real and shouldn’t be judged. It should have been illegal to film therapy sessions and I’m questioning this a lot.
My impression of Manon is simply that she's a princess type. As in, I think she led a very comfortable and somewhat spoiled/pampered life up until being scouted. This isn't a condemnation of her, I just think that from what we've seen of her family and home life, she's a cherished daughter who has probably never had to deal with real hardship. I think when it comes to training, she had probably never even ever encountered something so demanding/difficult before in her life before and so she didn't realize that she needed to take it seriously at first, or how hard it would be. I don't think there's anything malicious about her or her intentions. I just think that she merely was unfamiliar with what was required of her, and she needed to learn the value of hard work. Which she did. It's a story with a happy ending.
As a member of the entertainment industry, I will say competition is a given. There isn’t, unfortunately, room for everyone in one space. You win some and you lose some. I was very SHOCKED that they even allowed Manon to become the villain like this. Everything that happened with her was LITERALLY OUT of her control. Also WHY are Lara and Sophia villains? I don’t understand that! While it was nice to see the actual structure of the TandD, I did not like the documentary as it just shined ALOT of people in a bad light, not just the contestant. The only REAL reaction that I felt happened was Lexis. And the fact that they manipulated them to pick 5 members and then showed it. Like wow. All for the drama!
IKR it rekindled old nonsense that the fans were waiting for tgo have an excuse to go at each other, bad idea on HYBE to even make this when ithought itwould show their hard process of debuting
It was heartbreaking that they made the girls give their favourites, telling them no one would see it, then show everyone for the drama. I loved how Lexie stood up for her values in that moment and after. But overall we saw how loving and supportive all the girls were for each another and I thought it was all so sweet. Seeing this and the friendships I thought was the highlight of the show.
I think people should try to understand both sides. In my opinion, the girls had a right to be upset all things considered. But I also believe most of them treated Manon unfairly and were also shady at times. She had no prior experience unlike most of them who have been training since they were kids. Plus, it seemed like alot of them were talking about Manon behind her back since it looked like Manon was the one to address the situation first which makes them look even worse (especially Sophia and Lara considering they made the lineup). Manon is honestly such a vibe and didn’t deserve any of that treatment. Whats even worse is that they JUST debuted less than a week ago. HYBE should’ve waited later in their career to release this imo.
To me, I just wish I saw more about the Katseye girls But all this documentary shows us is that these girls are just human, with imperfections, and I think that's fine. It makes them more relatable instead of this perfect picture of a group of pretty girls
Megan did mention in the documentary that there were girls like Manon who had no experience when entering the program but that continued to show up every day and put in the effort while Manon was constantly skipping rehearsals.
@@graceleev Megan saying that doesn't change the fact that there were also girls who skipped practice that were never confronted and blamed like Manon was. Both things can be and are true.
The Training & Development part of the show was MUCH better. Yeah, it definitely wasn't helpful that the staff didn't tell the trainees that it was a competition show especially since they nurtured the girls who were naturally competitive and left the other trainees to fend for themselves basically. They said you can't lit a fire for someone else but telling the girls that this was a competition would've been helpful. Obviously the girls on a lower skill set would not feel the competitive nature of training to get to Dance level A as some of the more professional dancers in the group. They were focused on self-improvement and since they had no idea how long they were gonna train for they didn't see the need to rush their development. Then you had them adding new girls like Manon which shook the core of the girls because Manon had no prior training yet was brought in after they trained for 6 Months straight. That was when the wedge started the implement itself between Manon and the girls. Lara was also brought in solo after months of training but it was clear she was scouted for her vocal ability so nobody felt she was inferior to them like unfortunately Manon felt and the way it looked. I'm pretty sure Lara joined after like a year straight of training so the girls probably thought she was the final piece that was missing as they weren't told there was gonna be 20 trainees which was another mistake. Then they brought in 5 more trainees all of who were from Japan and South Korea who couldn't speak English but were treated better than Manon due to how limited the time they had to prepare before being thrown into a survival show. I truly think Manon got the short end of the stick being the first trainee to be added to the group who had already been training for months on end. Especially since she was a beginner in training it didn't make sense to them why she had been added. That's why the hatred for the system was put into Manon cause literally all the other girls who were at the top of voting were for factors besides talent. In fact only 1 of the top 6 in voting was put there based on talent the others were boosted thanks to country origin, ethnicity, or looks. Manon unfortunately had to take the fall as they literally thought she was inferior and didn't belong. In fact out of all the trainees that were added Manon was like the only one who was a beginner in both dance and vocal. Also the teachers/staff did absoluetly nothing to help bridge a very clear gap in the group and they had some clear favoritism amongst the trainees.
Who was that 1 person that was in top 6 based on talent? Also a big part that played into it was manon thinking that it was enough to 'look pretty and have star quality'. She is very confident in her looks and thought she could rely on those only/mostly. She even said when speaking to her sister that she had star quality and that she doesn't need to be the best vocalist & dancer. Afterwards she didn't go to the rehearsals because 'she didn't feel like it'. The 'feeling inferior/insecure' might have been there in the background but I don't think it was the number 1 reason why she had bad work ethic. But honestly we know now that she works hard and that she's imoroved a lot so I feel like those discussions are a bit unnecessary lol.
Thank you!! They all benefited from pretty privilege or having a certain nationality/ethnicity at some point. The only reason why they got mad at Manon receiving these benefits was because they didnt think she deserved to be there. People are so dense.
I think it’s clear that the real villain of the show was Hybe x Geffen 😭 esp Bang and Mitra. Bang for rushing their training and Mitra for stirring the pot for drama with a smile on her face! Love the choreographers and vocal coaches though, they actually seemed to care about the girls. I was honestly offended by Mitra saying that this cruelty was what we the viewers wanted to see. Some people are trying to defend the show runners by saying it would have eventually been a competition anyway, why does it matter? It matters that they LIED and said, who do you think should be eliminated? no one will see or hear what you said, and then turning around and showing all them what was said! That was so messed up! I don’t blame Lexie for leaving after that and she was one of my favorites. After watching the show I found myself disliking the company more than I already do and feeling bad for all of the girls involved. I’m also annoyed by the pushing of the “girl group version of BTS” narrative. If that’s the case they should involve the girls in the writing and producing of their songs. Bang also needs to let it go and admit he essentially won the lottery with that group of guys. I’m not trying to downplay the effort of those working in the company, but the constant chase of trying to replicate that success comes off as disingenuous and I think we’re all a bit tired of it.
I think Hybe just needs to stop & take a step back. They keep jumping from one group or issue to the next without trying to resolve them. What was the point of creating this documentary? Why show us this side to a group that's barely a year old? Why agree to this editing/final cut knowing how they've dealt with a major bullying scandal in the past? I feel like hybe just isn't at a point (managment wise) to deal with all this & needs to reevaluate. A lot has changed for them over the past few years but I can't help but question if they (as a company) are biting off more then they can chew.
Old lady here: These girls are young. They don't get that a large percentage of life is a crapshoot. You can have the best skills and not get the job; you could be the most attractive person inside and outside and never find a romantic partner; this is life. As someone said to me when I cried, "Life isn't fair!" They said, "Fair? If you want the fair it's coming around in October." The sad truth is that life isn't fair but that doesn't mean you should give up. ETA, in one of the episodes, a girl asks a trainer, "is this a survival show?" and she was told No.
The netflix documentary should have been aired before the debut. Tides would have been shifted and people would have seen and learn who to vote. But ultimately the company had their favorites and choose who they wanted from the get go. Many girls didn't have enough screen time which is unfair. And learning that the ones who put so much support and effort at the beginning ended up leaving. I doubt the group will last even 5 years. The base seems to have gained momentum. Will see.
whoever is seeing this, they should have be OPEN MINDED before watching the documentary. disclaimer, the documentary was like a year and a half ago and people fail to realize that obviously they have talked about it and has gotten closer ever since. I am an ot6 stan and I get both sides. they all had to be professional. but the unnecessary hate towards Sophia and Lara? Y'all are so dense lol. they all clearly made up judging by all their recent contents and videos. Manon solo Stans, calm yalls asses a little bit. stop always tryna victimize Manon and tryna speak for herself!! we don't need negativity in this fandom. ANYWAYS STAN KATSEYE OT6
They’re pulling race cards! 🙄 Manon acted childish, realistically, Sophia the most mature one in the group will be so frustrated about it. She was the one who gave encouragement to co trainees and here’s Manon who knows she has low skillset but was not trying to do anything about it. It was also said in the show, the label was breaking lots of rules in favor to Manon. Is that being discriminated?
It's the way you guys can accuse and call manon names and never defend her from the toxic solo stans of the other girls but expect no toxicity back from her solo stans. You guys are giving space to villainize and isolate manon. Calling her dozen and just a pretty face only encourages more division within this group/fandom. I've only ever seen her fans defend her, why do you guys as the "ot6" not defend her like you're defending the other girls? It's so mean spirited.
@@fyori7376they were in a survival show. the producers literally made a toxic environment just to make things “entertaining” which was said in the documentary. it’s natural that the girls would have negative emotions towards each other. sophia had owned up to it and also Manon admitted that she was also slacking and also owned up to it. but people still keeps saying negative stuff and i know damn well they didn’t even finish the whole documentary. it’s like they’re more hurt than manon. it’s to the point where the solo stans do a little to much and spread more negativity when it isn’t needed. it just makes the fan base toxic💀
@fyori7376 that's because there's nothing to defend Manon from . Most people didn't like the fact that she debuted , that's a valid reason because she 1. Has a low skills set , 2. Despite having a low skills set didn't come to train , 3. Just when she understood that her beauty is gonna pave the way for her she suddenly started being so much hardworking , gimme a break . Manon stans are manipulative and toxic , Sophia or Lara stans are nowhere as toxic, Sophia had been working hard from day 1 , showed up for practice and filming even when she had COVID , Lara literally gave up part of her identity because it was too intimidating or provocative for their show , had to tone down her singing cause she always sang like a soloist, even though had no dance training and started training so much later , still ended up becoming one of the best dancers of their group, Daniela took harsh criticism from day 1 and perfected herself , Megan who was always on top of the ranking along with Lara and Sophia still showed up for hours of practice and mind you this whole thing was 2 years (except Lara cause she joined late) , suddenly their frustration is invalid ? not to mention Lara haven't even said anything that serious and she also mentioned how she's agreed to forget everything and start fresh with Manon , Manon stans want her to be defended from hate , the hate that is literally non existent . Y'all can't see the frustration of all the other trainees who trained for so many days getting eliminated by someone who's simply pretty.
I think people who jumped to the hate train are just immature and can't accept reality. Remember that they're from different countries with different cultures.
The way I screamed at the TV in those final episodes when the survival show kept destroying those poor girls out of nowhere. I followed the survival show religiously when it was happening, but I like everyone else assumed that the girls knew what they signed up for. To learn that they thought the group would be formed like a normal audition but then it turned into a popularity concept? Heartbreaking for those girls
The injustice/frustration that those girls were feeling towards Manon is not just characteristic of the entertainment industry - it's characteristic of life itself. Just because you work the hardest does not mean you are the best, it does not mean that people will like you the most and it doesn't mean you will get the furthest. In nearly every industry being well-liked is just as important (if not more) as your performance. If you've ever had a job, you have most likely had a manager that you thought "How the hell did you get this job while I'm stuck doing this?" And sometimes you learn it's because they got lucky, or they were the best option at the time or that the reason they don't seem to have it together is because of some struggle you're unaware of. All that to say, a surprise competition show is unethical. Especially for people that young who have very likely never fully learned that lesson. They need to never ever do this type of show again. Especially showing therapy sessions.
I think the most frustrating thing about it all is that people don’t understand the intersectionality behind it all. Multiple things are right at once. I get the frustrations the girls had about Manon’s presence especially because it affected them directly. Totally valid. However it wasn’t just her absence and i feel like people aren’t honest about that. It was very clear that there was some underlying jealousy from the girls, which is inevitable when it comes to a survival show. Still it should be acknowledged when dissecting this documentary. The girls might’ve noticed her absence and had their opinions about it, but they only started having an actual problem with her when it turned into a competition and they now believed she was an actual threat who could take her place, a pretty one at that. I mean look at every time they talk about her, her prettiness is always brought up when their main focus should be her absence. But the most important thing is that this resulted in them gossiping about her, giving her dirty looks and kinda shutting her out. And thats what people had an issue with, not them holding her accountable for her absence. They felt threatened by manon catching the publics eye and instead of hating the game, they started hating the player too even though this was clearly not in Manons control. Bottom line i wish them the best, but its understandable that people call out their mean girl behavior. It is what it is.
i was actually wondering if/when you'd have a say abt this as an eyekon! all of your takes i agree with. and as someone (se asian) who rooted for lara, manon, and sophia, these are some things i've observed (also, i decided not to watch 5/8 of the episodes to protect my peace): - there's definitely sth worth discussing on how the docuseries tries to portray manon, a young black woman, as "lazy" even though her missing out was completely understandable (getting covid, self-doubt). there's a clip from the show on twt that i've yet to watch where manon seemed like she wanted to say more, but decided not to as previously she was cut off by missy/the others (please cmiiw on this). while the conflict among her & the other girls were not based on her ethnicity, i feel like it's also important to recognize and challenge the negative stereotypes the trainees (and us as viewers) unconsciously internalized. i'm not black, though, so i don't think i should be the one to elaborate on this any further. - at the same time, while sophia and lara have already received harassment due to the series, i think lara has it worse due to her features. i've even seen folks calling her "looking like a man". have we not learned from the imane khelif situation? - hxg is 100% to criticize and blame here for putting everyone in this situation. the trainees' hurtful words and actions are not to be dismissed (understanding ≠ defending), but instead of improving(?) their people management, this company chooses clout. and at what cost? this series not only unfairly portrays lara and sophia as "bullies" but also unfairly portrays manon as a "helpless victim" when the situation isn't black & white. - but yeah, i hope everything has gotten better among the katseye members. i'm hopeful that they're going to understand e/o better as time goes by. to me, to this day the girls do not seem that close yet, but they're getting there. it's definitely not gonna be easy to just bond under circumstances like this
this is the most sane and comprehensive take I've seen on this from a non-black person, thank you lol. I agree on all counts HxG is weird and icky as fuck for putting these diverse women on a global stage and doing absolutely nothing to protect them from the racism that was unfortunately always gonna come with that
@@pandaking9000 thank you! idk what i expected from hxg but the way they basically threw all of these girls/young women to a pit of wolves for $$$ is so disheartening
When Hybe said that there is going to be a documentary, I'm really excited and have been waiting for it since Dream Academy days. Only to find out that the documentary focuses more than half of the screen time to the girls that didn't even debut considering the title to be Pop Start Academy: KATSEYE. Instead we got all these dramas from other girls (not in the top 20) that I don't think are necessary (at least for me). Also, I'm somewhat mad at the fact that it seems that they only added the Japanese trainees as fillers to the top 20 for the survival show. But to keep on topic, I believe that they are so wrong in making drama out of Manon, Lara, and Sophia.
i agree with everything you said! ppl are blowing it way out of proportion. they showed some immaturity while handling a high stress situation they didn’t even know they were getting into fully, and they worked thru it. that’s normal and expected. but sadly i’m seeing it already have a negative effect on their image :/ fans always say they want to see the reality behind the scenes in kpop but are scared to see the idols act as actual human beings with normal flaws
honestly so damn heartbreaking for how much work they put in just to be cut by fan votes based on attractiveness 💔 should’ve just been judges vote smh. and how most of katseye group was talking down in Manon and now they are in a group together😂 AWKWARD
Correction, Manon's absences are not only due to sickness. There are also times when she did not show up because she just didn't want to. A clip of one of those absences are literally shown in the documentary.
@@winneh1398 The girls are at fault but that bit of misinformation is minimizing the fault on Manon's side. Both did something wrong and it's only fair that it is discussed right.
So did other girls but they only acted like that towards Manon. And that was because she was actually popular and that was a threat to them. On top of that there was a misunderstanding. Manon didn't know the system of kpop training and due to the culture she grew up in, she thought she could take a rest when needed (very needed especially since the other girls weren't comfortable to be around with as they have isolated her since before she even got to meet them). Because her body wasn't accustomed to the training unlike the other girls who trained longer, her body got sore and it took a toll on her. Having a sore body indicates you need a break, so there is nothing wrong with her getting a break. And she also had covid. Not only is covid a big deal for her health and body, it can implicate the other girls, she HAD to isolate herself from them. They never gave her a chance to explain herself. They just bad mouth her behind her back. This is bullying (they don't have to physically hurt her for it to be bullying). Am sure this impacted her mental health which no one with in this "ot6" fandom seem to care about.
“Girls don’t like Girls, who hate girls, in this world, it just don’t add up” Man that song was better before that documentary came out. My brain is still stuck on the therapist section… I get it’s a documentary, so showing some behind the scenes events are a given. But why give a bunch of teenage girls a private space such as a therapist, AND RECORD IT!? My heart goes out to all groups under Hybe, for some weird reason that company is tumbling head first down the staircase for seemingly no reason. “Its all love baby, it’s all love…”
To me i personally think with Manon's case, that people are mad because at first they made them think that all the fault is Manon and didn't deserve to be in the group and all that, but after this, they realized that it's actually not and she's also a victim. So they feel bad and angry. And mind you these same people who are saying that it's in the past and should move on, are these same people who attacked Manon online with that one video that said she was being mean towards Yoonchae and that she didn't deserve to be in the group and so on. So it's not easy for people to let this go and it hurts, coz for so long they made us think Manon is the wrong which is not right. Manon is just like me, i sometimes find it hard to explain myself when a lot of people come at me at a time so it must be hard. She's must have taken in a lot which she wasn't even given a chance to explain herself. But anyways, if she's letting go, then we will as well 😊
Although i agree with your take that you can't really say anyone was in the wrong for the way they felt about Manon skyrocketing to popularity, there's an element of antiblackness not only did the staff have toward Manon (I'm talking about missy specifically here because she kept painting Manon as someone she wasn't and it didn't seem like ANY of them were asking why she was so distant because let's remember, they kept singling her out and Manon repeatedly stated she wasn't professionally trained like most of them were) , but the contestants as well. Whether it was Adela complaining about not having representation for her people in the industry..i know she meant nationality, but the fact that she didn't stop to think maybe it's a bad idea to talk about representation and then compare it to a black girl? or that scene were Manon pulls all of them aside and explains herself, giving them a perspective that TO BE HONEST, NONE OF THEM WOULD'VE ASKED HOW SHE FELT IF SHE DIDN'T TRY TO RESOLVE THE ISSUE HERSELF. Also, I wouldn't say Manon got to defend herself. She truly didn't because even when she tried to, the girls, specifically SOPHIA and MISSY kept cutting her off and not letting her speak her truth and clearly showed they didn't even attempt understanding her as a person. Sophia for instance says she noticed Manon doesn't pay attention and doesn't takes notes when we literally see how Manon DOES pay attention and DOES take notes in another scene. It irritated me how those girls could've apologized for their wrong assumptions AS WELL and instead Manon had to carry all the burden and was portrayed as "the main problem." It's also a case of subconscious racism that almost all of them were displaying in my opinion because most non-black people have this preconceived idea that Black girls will always act a certain way and when we aren't, it confuses people to the point they can become hostile, taken aback, or just distant because we're not acting like they expect us to. Manon's quiet and observant because she's shy and it shows she's observant because the staff mentions how great she did and her ability to keep up despite being an amateur. Yes, I definitely see there's an element of pressure that comes into play in the whole thing, but it's not the sole reason Manon was treated the way she was. Let's remember Manon would also miss rehearsals because she got sick. Also, Lexie began missing MORE rehearsals than Manon did yet she wasn't met with this level of animosity. Popularity and her appearance are NOT the sole reason Manon was being targeted. I hope you understand my point of view. Thank you. Edit : notice how the minute I mentioned antiblackness, there’s already people gaslighting me? Congratulations you proved my point.
I don't think racism has anything to do here, Most of the contestants were people with color and she's not the only black girl in there and stans are quick to use the race card in this one. If you watched Dream Academy at the part where the girls had to vote which one they think would debut one of the girls to get most of the votes is a black latina girl. The only issue with the girls was that they felt it was unfair for the other girls who we're doing their best, I know it wasn't a good thing for them to gang up on her but people forget that these girls are forced under pressure and competition by the management to create drama. Also solo stans misinterpret the open forums as a way for them to say scum off her while infact they were compelled to say what they felt during those times and Manon was always absent to hear any of it, Sophia never bad mouthed her in fact she gave her constructive criticisms but also commended her at the end. Lara also gave her sentiments and sorted it out with her, all their actions was valid it was a competition after all and the management did mention they wanted the drama. In return she took that advice willingly and she did better after. People judging the girls base on what happened a year ago as if no friendshop bloomed from initial rivalries. If anything I find it even cute that they all started in bad terms which only grew to a strong sisterly bond now.
@@momotsuyuonce9473 your mistake is assuming people of color can’t also be discriminatory towards other poc and black people. Like I said again, yes pressure plays a part into it but you literally ignored every detail I gave as to why their behavior felt antiblack. It’s not that simple and there’s technicalities to this subject y’all are actively ignoring and choosing not to dive into because it’s making most of yall uncomfortable
It's not racism. When it's a team performance and someone is not giving it her all...that single person can bring the whole team down. Do you understand? They are questioning her work ethic! The show didn't specify how many times Manon didn't go to rehearse...but, I bet it's quite a lot. Sophia only said she talked to Manon several times about going to rehearsals/trainings. Had Sophia specified how many times Manon was absent...I don't think you will be talking about racism here. From what the trainees were feeling...I don't think it's just 3-4 days of absenteeism.
While I think that Sophia could've gone about talking to Manon in a better way, you also have to understand where she's coming from..... even from a neutral standpoint, it's not fair that Manon seems to have missed rehearsals on multiple occasions, and even when she does show up, she's not always paying attention. You would think that she would have more motivation to enhance her skill set especially when those skills are lacking compared to the people around her, but in the beginning it didn't seem that way. Also, Manon seemed to have a habit of breaking rules that don't seem that hard to follow, yet she didn't really face any consequences for it (at least from what we saw). Yes she essentially got kicked out of the trainee house, but instead she got to live with her aunt and sister and sleep in her own room and in her own bed and have the privacy to do whatever she wants. On top of that she has a huge following on social media who will support her no matter what she does because she's beautiful and definitely it girl material. She was also the only trainee specifically recruited to be there. To the people who have been there since the beginning and show up to rehearsal rain or shine, healthy or sick, it just comes as a slap in the face that no matter how hard they work, they will never get the same amount of public support that Manon does. And during a lot of the group's performances, Manon's absence affects them a lot too and they have to put in even more work to make up for her. That can build up a lot of pent up frustration. I do understand that the girls could have been better at communicating this with Manon since the beginning, but 1) the girls probably feel like they have no power in the situation 2) they barely knew Manon and it can be uncomfortable to bring up a touchy subject like this, and finally 3) the girls are all SO young. Honestly how many teenage girls do you know who are at the level of maturity needed to overcome something like this😭 it's a complicated situation which brings up complicated feelings, and I feel like the documentary did an overall good job of portraying both sides and making it clear that the girls are only human. I'm glad Manon improved so much after this and I'm glad the girls get along well now.
How the tables have turned! Folks were just interpreting Manon as standoffish and rude in interviews when she is just really a bit introverted. I agree, blame the producers but also laughing + side eyeing was a choice.
Manon skipping rehearsals was also a choice tho... but of course that is never being posted on tiktok. There are a lot of manon stans who evil-edited newer videos of them making it seem like lara is hating on her. In the reaction video of debut lara looked at manon and said that she looked good. That was her first reaction. But they cut that out and cut to another part of manon singing where lara was just watching the mv quietly and they claimed that she reacted to all members positively except for manon. That's just blatantly hating on someone using clips they selectively chose that fit their narrative.
@@anastasiamecket3079 yeah, that’s HYBE’s fault for being messy and releasing this randomly. Either way, it’s clear Manon currently being positioned as the center so a win is a win.
@@anastasiamecket3079 The same can be said about sophia stans, there are alot of videos edited to make Manon look like shes lounging in a pool all day while the girls are working the whole time, all the comments are calling manon racial slurs and telling her shes only being voted for because shes black, which is funny since most of these comments are from the phillipines and theyr'e voting for sophia because shes one of them. I saw a manon page call out the racism and people started saying that 'toxic manon stans are trying to bully sophia.' as a response, its a perfect form of gaslighting. I feel for both girls
Side-eyeing??? When it was literally just plain glances??? But if they do, well, don't scratch the part that they were upset at that time with Manon and that they don't feel like faking everything. I would've reacted the same way when I trained for 1 or 1/2 years and put in a lot of effort while a girl who just trained for months (with not enough good talent) skipped or was late to rehearsals (which affected the group) yet still receive the privileges while the others who worked hard and more talented than her are sent out. Also, please remember that this documentary was all edited and for sure wants to create drama to blow up. That's why there are scenes that we haven't seen in the docu (like for ex, they didn't show when Sophia got ankle injuries)(I watched Dream Academy while the show was still on til the end). That's why they can make anyone as bad or good
@@dreads8220 I agree that hybe is at fault but it's mostly manon-stans' fault. They showed both perspectives (girls & manon) and miscommunications that happens to literally every group and is completely normal. Both parties were at fault, but hybe was at fault for believing that those stans could think critically, think from the trainee's point of views and have some empathy. Most of the ppl hating on the girls aren't even eyekons tho, a lot of anti-katseye accounts changed into manon-fan accounts solely to hate on them and bring their image down. Many manon-stans admitted that they know nothing abt the girl or haven't watched the survival show but simply support her bc she's black ('i dont care if she's wrong, im just supporting ma people'). It's not a win if the girls are getting hated on, they're a group for a reason, they're called 'katseye', not 'manon and friends'. Right now from an outsider's view they see the group as problematic despite only having debuted a few months ago, it doesn't do any good to their image.
My opinion on this whole katseye thing is that missy lead Manon on then switch on her for no reason,Lara and Sophie are not bully’s,just because Lara was laughing..she couldn’t have been laughing at anything,and Sophie was not a bully she was just strict about being in the group because it was her dream,and Adele this girl 💀was just obsessed with Manon the whole documentary,she kept saying we but it was just her,Manon may have missed practices but so did the others but hybe not once show the others missing practice in the documentary,at this point hybe is the one to blame,they know what would happen by releasing this documentary late,while katseye was gaining popularity
adele is not wrong when you practice sooo hard night and day and some one who does not even care about the project get top votes beacoz they are pretty obivously she will point it out
@@garimasuhani7227We all understand Adela but she is definitely immature and a bit selfish. That mentality won't take her anywhere. The world indeed it unfair. She seems like a cool girl with lots of lessons to learn. I don't support the hate on her though
@@green360z same, plus this is an edited documentary, they could of been asking the girls deliberate questions which would make them look worse, like how do you feel about manon succeeding and you not for example, cause lets be honest, who is just gonna trash talk another girl every single time a camera is in their face? I agree with what you said about adela tho.
I feel like if they released the documentary before the final group was formed, so much would be different now. The final members and order of elimination would definitely be different if we knew what was going on behind the scenes. But the problem is, Hybe didn't showcase their talent and personalities enough for the fans to make a proper decision on who should debut. Don't get me wrong, I love Katseye as they are, but I really wish a different approach was taken to forming the group.
I just watched the whole thing and tbh I expected some evil editing, but this was like jaw dropping the way they painted various members of the group this way, I'm speechless. it so obviously hurts their reputation with the casual "fans" watching these cut up clips without nuance, like.... obviously they did it for the drama but why do it at the expense of what they're saying in the doc is a "life or death" project because of such "high stakes" on this group. bewildering decision, I have no idea what they were thinking.
@meilichankan9282 gurl people need to watch it...otherwise people are gonna judge from few seconds of clip....you either watch it or you don't...but don't make opinions based on tiktok clips . Hybe shouldn't make docu series period.
kpop stans are literally insane. how can you not grasp a simple concept like this? 😭 as unfair as it is to the contestants, that's just the reality of survival shows. the popular girls get to debut, while some may get left behind. Manon definitely isn't the villain, it's not her fault that people basically voted for her despite her absence. It's not something she's responsible for. I definitely understand the other girls' frustration, working so hard just to not debut is a harsh reality, but there nothing we can do about it in the end.
Why do some people think that certain girls deserve to be on high rank because of hard work and dedication. It has nothing to do with that. At the end of the day , ppl vote because of the country affiliation and looks. Adela was eliminiated coz she rank last in votes and manon was ranked high coz she is has the looks.
Omg because that’s what they started with! At the beginning of the program it was all about talent, hard work and dedication. Everything was judged with base and facts by only their instructors and CEO to form a girl group. WHEN they found out it was going to become a survival show (after 1 year of training btw ) they all got triggered because their time and effort won’t matter anymore. Idk how people cannot empathise with that feeling.
@@serenitysubs933 have you watched the documentary? Adela was bullied in the internet for her facial features (her lips). And Manon was really popular because a lot of black girls felt represented.
As a Pre-debut EYEKON,, this was possibly the worst move and marketing strategy hybe & geffen ever did... there were some little tiny moments that EYEKONs wish would have changed i.e Manon being at the back majority of their first single Debut, or toxic stans thinking the group is ignoring Yoonchae WHICH IS LITERALLY THE OPPOSITE bc the girls love Yoonchae.. what Im saying is that this will further divide the fandom and create solo stans, akgaes, more antis, and division within this growing community for EYEKONS... it is so sad to think that just a couple days ago in "katsville" as they say on Twitter haha, everything was just peaceful and calm and everyone was excited for this docuseries to come out,, but then everything went sour.. the girls have been silent and the whole fandom at war within themselves,, I had to defend Manon, Sophia, and Lara from toxic haters who were part of other fandoms joining in for the hate train... yea it's not looking good rn and I hope it dies down as quickly as it started happening... if you are an EYEKON, a safe place to join is their Weverse ;) probably the safest community rn amidst all the chaos ❤ OT6 forever !! Stan our talented girls KATSEYE and please dont listen to all the hate.. watch their previous videos on their channel instead of the documentary!! They have such a strong bond now and I hope as or currently, they are healing and talking with each other bc I know they probably watched that series too ... love yall EYEKONS ❤
thanks for this, this is what im thinking too..... i already deleted my tiktok and stayed away frow twitter...i just want to enjoy the group and the music no need for unnecessary drama.... btw im on weverse too..
Manon's fans posting out of context clips and trying to start a narrative against Sophia and Lara is gonna tear this fandom apart. The fans are too immature to think criticially
I agree with you on all of this. Hybe messed up with this edit and It's gonna hurt their investments in Katseye BIG TIME. THIS IS MAKING THE BAND 3: DANITY KANE ALL OVER AGAIN
To the others, it came off as Manon didn’t care/seemed arrogant. Because of a lack of communication, they didn’t know it’s cause it’s lacking confidence so things could’ve definitely be cleared earlier by communicating. Also Manon could have told the producers/directors these thoughts too. But I’m not hating on any of the girls as we see like 9 ish hours of filming, and they have been working so hard and must’ve been stressed af. So it all makes sense. I still it makes the girls (especially the girls in Katsye) kinda look bad. Cause sure they eventually communicated their feelings, but people focused on how it looked like the Katseye girlies were beefing
This is what I agree with the most! At the end of the day it is really just a simple case of miscommunication and a little bit of immaturity on both ends. I hope Katseye’s PR team can fix this mess.
I was genuinely enjoying this so so much in the beginning. I didn’t know anything about Katseye before watching and I was excited to see the process of the girls being picked, but started to become sooo frustrated with the overall favoritism of some of the girls. I don’t hate Manon and do find her very pretty, but I do think that in the beginning she didn’t work as hard. It was difficult to watch girls who sweat blood and tears go home just because the K-pop stans were honestly being racist. Lets call a spade a spade. Now just to clarify everything that went down is not Manon’s felt its the fault of the executives, because they knew their intention from the beginning. They lied to those poor girls and told them they would be picked by their merits and the girls slowly started to find out that wasn’t true. The jealousy that ensued was warranted. Imagine working your ass off and a girl who is super pretty and not as talented comes in and sweeps you just because kpop stans think shes pretty. When the executives decided to cause “drama” thats when I lost my respect for the show. Pitting them against eachother than filming the fallout was soo cruel. It put a bad taste in my mouth and I agreed with Lexi. Out of everyone I’m sop proud of her because she stuck to her morals and you can tell it hurt the executives to see her go which makes me wonder if she was endgame. Its sad to see the turn the show took because honestly i dont think the show needed added cattiness and drama. As if being a teen on a survival show with the kind of stakes they had isnt dramatic enough 😒
I totally agree. I think the girls were mostly just mad at the principle of the situation. I do not believe any of those girls would be ‘mean girls’ in real life. They were all put in such a stressful situation and on top of that had cameras in their faces the whole time.
They don't blame them for feeling frustrated, rather it's the attitude that Sofia and Lara took, which only left a bad taste in their mouths. You can feel a certain way but that does not give you the right to act like that with a person, feelings are not an excuse to have a mean attitude.
Ppl have blamed them for being frustrated and accused them of jealousy and gone as far as to call them bullies and even when you pull up valid criticism some ppl will still argue that they were wrong and shouldnt be worried about others. also the perception of whats mean is based per person. Manon obviously took whaf they said to her and applied it and got over what they said so for the public to be so hell bent on it is just odd
I watched this doc just to know why Lexie left Dream Academy ngl (I don't watch Dream Academy but I saw clips) & I dug a deeper rabbit hole while watching the doc. Nonetheless, please be kind to the members as they're humans with emotions & don't send hate & instead send the members some love!
I absolutely hated how they consistently betrayed the trust of those girls, especially when they'd sacrificed so much to participate in this program. I don't mean in a "ugh well they knew what they were going into, they should have expected this!!!" they were not only shut out from information but repeatedly told false information about the program they were in (specifically it not being a survival show/personal interviews being private) because "the audience wanted that drama." It just paints them as hypocrites who don't care about the girls. They freaked out more on a girl for posting something on her finsta and made it a "my word against hers" situation (and then broke their own promised confidentiality) than they did about the girl who literally stopped showing up to practice because she had been lied to about the show and didn't like the person they were turning her into.
I’m surprised no one is talking about the obvious factor that affects everyone when choosing their fave idols- superficiality. Manon was extremely popular because of her visuals. This is the sad reality of the industry. When you have unique + pretty visuals that finally coincide with the diverse audience, it became very easy to gain popularity.
Finally someone with a good take. I watched this documentary after I had seen the backlash online. I expected to understand the hate but I finished watching it and I was like??? No one was wrong in this situation. It absolutely makes sense that the girls would act like this given the circumstances. I think the documentary was presented in a way that highlights the real challenges the girls went though both physically and mentally, even if it meant showing the bad parts. However, people took those clips and ran with it because they lack thinking skills. I feel awful for the girls who are getting the undeserved hate 💔
Guys the entertainment industry is NEVER about "effort and practice and you will archieve your dreams! UwU ❤️❤️" it's about connection, power, money, and A LOT of luck! Hope this helps! :D
Say it louder!! Most kpop stans dont realise their favs could have only debuted cuz they have connections and the money honestly theres no way there were no talented trainees in some groups lacking talent like that's my take
Agree. I watched the show because I saw some discourse on twitter about manon not being deserving of debuting. But I finished it last night and I still can’t understand what people are making a big fuss about. Lara and Sophia were pretty straightforward, clear and assertive when they had that group talk with Manon towards the ending, I thought everyone ended up handling the situation very maturely.
After watching the Popstar Academy on Netflix and knowing what goes behind the scenes and my thoughts?? The girls who debuted deserved this but I hope HYBE and GEFFEN would read this or hear my plea: Ezrela, Lexie, and Emily these girls are sweet little angels and they have the talent for being in a girl group. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE debut them on another girl group that has no competition or survival shows. If and only if their training in Popstar Academy is not a survival show or a competition these girls would definitely shine. I just Emily and Ezrela debut too like being in a girl group is literally their dream don’t crush it by just leaving them on air after making them trained so hard for like two years and they gain nothing
Dude that’s the industry, it’s cut throat, meritocracy is a lie. Also Lexie clearly is smart and has strong morals, it’s clear from the documentary she wanted to get as far away from Hype and Geffen as possible..
Another reason I really don’t like the show is just because it made the fans attached to contestants who are not chosen to be in katseye. I don’t think I will ever look at the group the same way I did before the show came out just knowing how so many other girls sacrificed so much and got nothing out of it.
The real villains were the producers and executives. The way those girls were treated was evil. Lexie is incredible for what she did. You could see it in her eyes the moment she made the decision. The betrayal absolutely broke her. I honestly can't believe this is a documentary by HYBE and Geffen as it makes them look AWFUL. I am not a kpop fan but i gave this documentary a go and got really invested in the girls and their hard work but i cannot support this group as it means supporting HYBE and Geffen. Some these girls were CHILDREN and all of them were so young and unprepared for what they were put through. I thought the coaches were great and so supportive but to give the girls a psychologist and then also film it just further solidifies that they have zero care for these girls wellbeing and are just interested in milking them for as much money as possible.
This whole thing is bizarre. The survival show was in such a weird format that we couldn’t really get to know the girls we were voting for. I bet many may have voted differently if they got to see the behind the scenes.
it’s actually such a joke that the people hating have probs not even watched the whole documentary and if they have and still have these volatile feelings then well… also people calling out adela for targeting manon yet before the public vote she was always ranked highly in both singing at dance #4 by the trainers etc to be then ranked last place #20, a place that was usually occupied by manon ofc she is going to be annoyed seeing someone who at that point was not putting in any effort. manon literally got KICKED OUT their dorm as she was breaking the rules and even before she got sick she missed some of the rehearsals. AT FIRST i don’t really think she was taking it seriously. that is NOT the case now. and ofc this was absolutely not manons fault and whilst she may not of understood their feelings at first as she progressed realising that she wanted to put in the effort and this was what she wanted, she expresses this to the trainees and APOLOGISED. manon realised where she went wrong and heard out the trainees opinions. so if manon recognised that to some extent she was wrong. HELD HERSELF ACCOUNTABLE why can’t her fans. ofc they are allowed to feel some discomfort to their bias being “mistreated” but i think they are not looking at the entire situation and environment that the girls were in. everyone’s EMOTIONS were HEIGHTENED. they also need to remember that the producers wanted DRAMA. they gave us 8 episodes documenting a WHOLE YEAR. they couldn’t of possibly showed us everything.
I observed Manon, and i honestly think she don’t know nothing about Kpop, Guys not everyone is a Kpop Stan, not every girl is a Kpop Stan and know all about IT…she didn’t even know whoTF Le Sserafim was when they visited them… and she probably didn’t know how u should act…Remember that they looked for her and hype wanted her to participate, like the others she was not that interested in being there because she didn't even know about kpop and those things and she didn't know the training method... she thought it was something normal and that you could miss it if you didn't feel like going or not, NOT WITH BAD INTENTIONS. The girls, if we observe closely, since they were told that Manon was going to arrive and they looked at her on social networks, they began to feel strange, because in real life we know that there are people who are jealous of one for seeing her as a competition, since before Adela (sorry but she always gave me bully vibes) started with weird comments and vibes, and the others got carried away by that, and since then any problem they had was looking to be bad with Manon because the suspicion was noticeable, Manon was not the only one who was missing or who was above Adela but all the time she criticized her, just because she received more attention. Sophia is pretty and talented but the jealousy for manon was there and i don’t know Why
kpop stans are really gonna drag this whole situation cause they can't go a week without finding a new girlgroup to harass. i just know le sserafim are catching their breaths right now
I think a lot of the problems came from the execution of the survival show. They went in a minimal direction, with only performances, judging and eliminations. I can respect the idea behind this approach. In theory, this makes people focus on their talent/stage presence alone. However, in reality they had way to little content to even know how each member were as a performer. You basically only had first impressions, and star quality is the first thing you notice. I didn't follow the show to the end so correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they only have like 3 missions? Adéla only had like 1 or 2 performances when she got eliminated, and every performance were in groups. I rolled my eyes when they tried to justify pitting the girls against eachother because drama gives more engagement. The reason you had low engagement was because you're survival show was boring. And it wasn't boring because there was no drama, it was boring because there was no content.
i haven't watched the whole series (only finished episode 1 😭) but from the clips.....they should've waited to release this. katseye has just started and you show 2/6 members of katseye + the other girls "ganging up" on one of their members (btw, i'm using ganging up loosely, not saying the girls were doing that). now you have people thinking that katseye bond is artificial and scripted. they should've waited like another year before we saw the documentary imo.
People need to calm down. If you watched Korean survival shows you’re no longer surprised by how bad the editing is. Whatever brought up in the whole series might not be what it actually was. The moment you glance at someone unintentionally, if it’s needed for the final story, they will edit it into something incredibly unbelievable, even if it’s bad for that one person. Not to defend anyone here. But you should know that they have just debuted and need to build a strong fanbase, both personal and for the whole group. Which also reflects in how the docu went. No matter how you actually are, once being in a Kpop group, you’ll be framed into one distinctive character. It could be how you are in real life, but it could be not. And now all we see are, a shy beautiful Manon, mean girl vibe Lara and Sofia, introverted Megan, calm Youchae and Daniela who hasn’t been drag into any drama. The more each individual fanbase fight the others, the frequent their artist name will be discussed. And yes that’s all the company needs. So please, keep an open mind on this and keep on supporting all the girls. They have been through a long way to get this far, and none of them deserves the hate for those nonsense.
I can't with the condescension. He made some valid points. However, he forgot to mention that Manon broke curfew a bunch of times and was allowed to stay at her aunt's because she was almost never in the house. In other words, she got preferential treatment-which made things worse. She also said she went to a school where it wasn't that big of a deal if she wanted to take a day off, so she didn't think it would be a big deal that she missed practice. Because yes, she was skipping practice even before she got covid.
i think you’re painting the situation in a negative light. the whole program was about cultural differences between the girls and in sweden the culture towards work and school is so completely different than the expectations of kpop training, manon clearly experienced a culture shock. she stepped up to the plate after she realized what was expected of her and clearly DID care because of that. the curfew situation is also iffy because manon stated she’d be out with family and that’s why missy said she should move in with her aunt then. there’s no doubt that created hostility in an already hostile situation. overall i think manon was prioritizing her health mentally and physically in the program and did not want to break herself and that’s where the disconnect comes from.
The kpop training system is literally military training. Like the exhaustion and soreness especially as a beginner...😭 Also, those girls were probably the reason she didn't want to stay around. As a fellow introvert, I understand her, though there might've been other reasons I just don't like the narrative people are pushing that Manon lacked discipline. Hunny no, she lacked military level discipline, the type to keep going though you feel like you're going to die Many normal people don't have that level of discipline hun I'm sure her reasons are not as shallow as y'all make it seem, but actually relatable
@@green360z this, she stated multiple times that she was not a professional and even said she was insecure about the level she was at compared to the other girls. and she’s stated after the show now that the process taught her discipline and a level of dedication that she never had before. it’s so sad to see no one giving her grace because she literally went from never being in a dance or vocal class to having these expectations to take strenuous training and sickness/soreness she’d never felt before and power through 😭 that is a lot. and it’s nearly inhumane.
I think kpop stans will be the reason the ''media literacy'' discussion will never end. Anyway, great video. I've been in the girls' shoes before and the frustration of rehearsing so much(in my case not for a competition) and having someone not show up is not fun. But Manon was able to take her L's, work on her work ethic and improve which is great. The fact that the girls weren't made aware they were even competing until later is so shady, they only did it to create drama which would increase the show's popularity. It's nice to see that the girls could work most things out. The hate being sent to any of the girls is so unfortunate knowing it could've been prevented. The last point I'd like to add is that I haven't seen anyone talk about how Manon might have had imposter syndrome or very low self-esteem. To even get into the show she had to audition and to my knowledge unlike most of the girls she didn't have much experience, it's not shocking to me that she'd feel like she didn't deserve it or felt intimidated. That probably might've caused her to feel demotivated and not show up, which then made the girls frustrated about her lack of work ethic, made her feel isolated, and probably justified in her belief that she might not deserve to be there and the cycle continues. My story(read if you want it doesn't have to do with the video): My friend wasn't showing up to rehearsals and the day of the show was getting closer. Everyone was annoyed, we couldn't reach her but most importantly we were all tired. We spent all day after school trying to perfect everything but she wasn't there. We later found out that she got hospitalized(she's fine now). We apologized, we thought she wasn't serious about any of this and even if we couldn't have known it was the right thing to do. She apologized for not letting us know or not telling her mom to contact us. We helped her catch up on all her classes and rehearsals she missed. The show went great, and everyone lived happily ever after.
I watched Dream Academy last year when it was airing live and voted mostly for Manon, Daniela and Nayoung once global voting began and felt that Ezrela would have been better than Lara if she was taller. All of this stuff was on the internet while the competition was airing. It came out that Manon was being iced out and names floated around about who the "mean girls" were. A lot of Samara fans were being terrible online and a lot of the things said about Manon by the global fandom were racist. I know it's difficult for people going through this type of process but "it factor, x factor, center mic energy, performance charisma, star quality, je nais que" or whatever you want to call "it," trumps "hard work" when all other things are created equal and needs to be recognized as that commodifiable intangible sometimes talent... maybe but definitely transfers to brand recognition and devotion.
manon only got in for being pretty nothing esle you guys just want her to be victim when she is not she was in the which she expected the girls were right too feel frustated aboourt the whole situation seh idnt have passion and dreams as other girls never work hard for she just got in beacoz she is pretty thats all i dont see any start quality in her she the most boring out of all i dont even knoiw why she was even selected when samara was seas better than her
@@garimasuhani7227your wrong because all those girls were pretty and besides dancing Manon can actually sing contrary to what some of you who hate/dislike her lol
ngl i dont like how this fandom is brushing off the way manon was singled out just bc the ppl doing so were their precious idol, im sure the girls are all good now but tryna ignore the micro aggressions and downplaying it is weird and gonna make ppl more mad 😅
Great video. i didn't think about what would be the reason why Manon was missing practice but this makes sense. The whole show confirmed why i don't like social media
lexie clocking hybe's messiness and leaving is very respectable.
I respect her so much, Her walk while grabbing her acceptance letter was c*nty asf, like that girl really took it with not an ounce of joy on her face and then quit right afterwards LMAO. Then the show runner had the audacity to be like "lexie really would've been the perfect idol to have in the group" like girl maybe if you hadn't intentionally stirred the pot that wouldn't of happened
not really because she could have given up her spot to the two who were eliminated. either that, or she could have just left right then and there. the way she rolled her eyes when taking her ticket was very unprofessional and was just a bad look for her. it wasn't the girl boss moment she thought it was.
@@madisonk5240 girl what! it definitely was a boss moment for her she saw how messed up the situation was and how the producers were stirring the pot. she saw that and didn't like it and left, that takes guts
@@madisonk5240 The reason she left is literally because of what they made them do that day and how they were turning them against each other so how would she have known to quit before the elimination. And she hadn't waited, she told them right after the elimination that she wanted to quit but they made her stay because she was binded by a contract so she instead just stopped showing up and putting any effort into it until they didn't want her anymore. I found it very "girl boss" because she stuck by her morals and what she truly believed was right even though it'd hurt her chances at success
I mean it was a competition to make a girl group not a vacation when they signed the contract the girls should have known this is a competition they had to compete like the survival shows in kpop
The fact that they gave a « psychologist » to teen girls who truely need someone safe to debrief complicated stuff with and that their conversations were FILMED AND THEN BROADCASTED. Wtf
I’m so glad I’m not the only one who thought that was weird. I was like this SHOULD NOT be filmed.
THIS!!
there's certain agreement when you joined the program and i'm sure this is just one of them, just because it looks weird to most of us i feel like the girls had a say about it, especially when you look at adela's proud face everytime she talks about manon lol
isnt that literally illegal or something lmao
reality shows do this. american idol used to have a psychologist that was out there with the solo purpose to instigate and create tension. i feel so bad for these girls because they didn’t even know it was a survival show at first.
Tbh I hated the fact that none of the girls knew that this was going to be a survival show. I feel like if they were told that it could possibly be a survival show in the beginning, the girls would’ve had more time to process this instead of it being thrown at them. I’m also not sure if I even like the fact that the whole world got to vote. It seems like all of these girls put in so much effort and tried their hardest, so for people to vote solely based on a 2-3 minute singing/dancing video is not the move Hybe should’ve went with in my opinion. I think the instructors and the teachers should’ve picked.
That's the issue with general audience voting in general, people don't vote for cohesive teams, they just vote for their faves. It doesn't matter if that particular fave can't sing, dance or rap and negligible stage presence to save their lives and idols who work hard and are exceptionally skilled and talented can lose their opportunities because they aren't as pretty or they don't have a marketable personality or the audience just likes another contestant more.
Totally agree like they worked so hard thinking they'd get it if they improved enough e.g. Adela but weren't liked unfortunately. I get she was kinds obsessed with blaming Manon but if she wasn't, there is nothing that could justify her being cut out of teh group saw this with that older gurl in XG doc as well, they keep her as the mother figure to help them grow and just cut them out because "soloist energy" .sounds like an excuse shouldn't that be something that they figure out earlier
I totally agree! I would have enjoyed this whole doc, etc. a lot more if the HYBE-Geffen team had selected the group.
True consent is important.
My theory of the crime is that HYBE really did initially intend to start a real T&D department but the way American corporate budgets work forced a major shift. They don't want the overhead costs and staffing costs that come with a real T&D and full time staff is always the first thing that gets cut in American budgets. Training is the second thing that always gets cut. The other thing is that tech platform projects are always prioritized over everything else - especially when an org is reorging and people are making plays for secure executive jobs. The reason why the survival show made no sense was that it wasn't really a survival show, it was a mass layoff and a G2M sprint for Weverse. The contestants who succeeded the most in voting were the contestants who most successfully onboarded the most users for Weverse. If the voting had not required creating accounts or downloading an app or whatever, it would have looked completely different. There is a direct correlation between the markets that Weverse adoption was a lower ask and the voting. It is not a coincidence that the documentary premiered now as opposed to when the voting was happening or when Katseye debuted. It's premiering along with the expansion of premium tiered subscription fees for Weverse and a company reorg that is doubling down on the idea that HYBE is a tech company, not a music label, to investors and shareholders. Pop Academy comes off like a terrible advertisement for Katseye because it isn't an advertisement for Katseye, it's an advertisement for Weverse and designed to increase engagement on Weverse.
lexie was so so so mature and admirable to recognize how toxic and twisted it was to put these girls into a training program, and turn it into a show without their prior knowledge. Lexie knew she didn't align with being put up against her friends so she left. Love her for that ♥
I watched the doc just now and I was absolutely shocked!!! I didn’t know the girls didn’t know it would be a survival program. I feel absolutely angry that they did that to these girls….
@honeyjam9593 it's mentioned many times in the first episode or 2 that the girls don't know. They were only told they were trainees
hybe assuming kpop stans have critical thinking skills was their first mistake
THIS LOL
THIS JESUS
Literally lmaooo
THISSS
Clock it
Telling the girls that all they need is hard work is misleading and unfair.
ah the american dream
Mind you they spent two years on this project😭
@@onyeka.g3literally i’d be beyond pissed dragging everyone even if i’m not online if that happened to me. 2 years wasted following an un-achievable dream that was said to be in my reach. that situation is too sad
distic
@@onyeka.g3 2 years of their late teen/young adult years makes it even worse xd
the best thing of the series is lexie. most ppl question her decision to leave after the show eliminates 4 girls, thinking she should've hold on to the opportunity the fans gave her. but through this docu, i came to respect lexie's decision, bcs the show's producers are just evil and cruel. at this point i think hybe didnt care about the image of the company nor individual members, they just want more noise for the group, whether the noise is positive or negative.
It was a Simone Biles moment. Mental health before all. Good call, Lexie.
If anything bang wanted to choose the group himself. It's mitra who likes the theatrics
@@lilycha9398 true, its more on geffen's side i guess, hybe approving all this is questionable tho
She leaves bcs she wants a different path..
the fandom is gonna be filled with a bunch of solo stans and akgaes
true
And that's all the company wants, regarding all the album versions and personal goods later for sale ...
@@xmxmss2120eh, hate trains against even one member can affect a group
survival show groups are full of them because ppl latch onto their picks or picks that didn’t make it in or did and they see it as them and their pick(s) against the world 😮 very weird behaviour
this is genuinely what i'm worried about tbh :( i can already see it happening on twitter
this was such an awful move like they should’ve released this later in their career 😭😭😭
Edit: stop responding to this, even I disagree with this take of mine lmao. Only leaving it up cause It got 3.7k likes
honestly they should deleted it as a whole or remove the parts where manon was being targeted
i just don't know why they had to focus the competitiveness so strongly around manon like who approved this
and waited
or last year when they were still in the PRE=PROCESS of debuting. but honestly I think this is still early enough to where the girls can still thrive
facts 😭
it’s just so confusing why they would pretty much open the door for sophia and lara to receive backlash for the documentary when katseye just now released their first album, especially considering how much ppl were already manon solo stans anyway
no literally id be so pissed
meanwhile sophia’s filipino fans are giving them most of their streams… hybe is so evil for this
they are being racist as well these Manon solo fans to SOPHIA
Same for Lara aswell they throwing huge hate towards Lara and Sophia these solo stans from the beginning behaving so toxic thinks everything is around Manon same during da where other girls felt not worth even performing so hard because anyhow the one popular one will get in.
@@망개떡-l6ynot just streams but yt views. Even in their facebook page. Majority are Filipinos interacting to keep their account up and running.
and u gotta remember they're all teenagers or young adults too
All of them were teenagers except for manon who was 21.
@@anastasiamecket3079no there were a lot of contestants who were 20 and 19
@@anastasiamecket3079 nah sophia and manon were 21, daniela was 19, lara was 18, and megan and yoonchae were 16/17
right theyre all young adults theyr not grown ass people theyre gonna act their age
@@serenitysubs933 exactly, both parties made mistakes and did things they shouldn't have as all people their age do so we shouldn't hold what happened in the past against them when they've clearly moved on.
Why has everyone suddenly gotten brain dead??? I was pleasantly surprised with how real the doc was. Made me like all the girls even more by showing them as complex people, as opposed to the sugar coated one note idol.
It is not hard to understand the drama between Manon vs the girls. Obviously they would be pressed that someone putting in the least effort, is getting the most reward. They sorted it out and now they're all good. THE END.
I think kpopstans just can't handle and face the reality of grps/kpop grps, since they are used to seeing them with perfect image n good friendship and this doc just shed the reality of it. I am not surprised the reaction of kpopstans, since probably just watched some clips from twt/tiktok and they just decided to hate on them (especially on lara, sophia, n manon).
Frrrr. The documentary just showed who they really were and their process thats all.
Yesss I agree with you, I liked the realness of this show compared to shows like Nizi project where all trainees are always portrayed very 1 dimensional, always so supportive of each other like cmon we all know there is competition and tension between the contestants
You need to remember that the large majority of kpop fans that will start staning a new kpop group are in middle school or high school and even some in elementary school. So, The people behind the documentary should have considered that fact. At the age range, critical thinking skills have not been developed. It’s the documentaries fault for not being edited for the real target audience (9-20) and not their desired audience (16 and older). Its my observation as a kpop fan/listener for the last 10 years
Yes, it was refreshing to see ppl with actual personalities, struggles & conflict. With kpop that’s not what we see a lot.
It would be kinda funny that Bang scared away his fave (Lexie) due to his own company’s amoral tactics if she wasn’t also my fave. I hope she’s thriving in whatever she chose to do after this. You know it’s bad if someone quits like that.
I agree 1000% ...I kept seeing TikToks about this whole Manon v Sophia, Lara, Adela etc.
My sister and I legit thought they were bullying and ostracizing Manon till we watched the documentary
I'm so annoyed at HYBE, and that lady (after the 2 mission) who kept saying they did that to the girls for drama and entertainment...and they completely blindsided and lied to the girls by making them join a survival show. Lexie was so mature for standing on her morals and values towards the matter and I respect her for that.
THIS!!! so many props to Lexie for being mature enough to leave a toxic environment after seeing how the executives did this is a spiteful way... she left behind such a good opportunity not only for her well being but out of good morals
Lies why tf would you bash manon 😅😅 stop making lies to justify the hatred other girls are getting you moron
Ngl Lexie is probably gonna get farther than Katseye because she can follow her dreams with no toxic Netflix documentaries
@@user-annoyingbrituo5nr5bv8sLmao, who’s Lexie? Let’s not reach here.
@@lattecreamsoda Lexie was a contestant at dream academy who decided she leave the program herseld
I’m going to be honest with y’all right now. Not everything is black and white, sometimes there’s this gray area where people can be both wrong and right. From the other girls perspective it really did look like Manon wasn’t giving it her all in terms of showing up to dance practice because, at first she really wasn’t. She even mentioned with her own mouth that she was going to stay home with her sister because she “didn’t feel like going to dance practice” (this was before she was absent due to COVID). We saw how this affected the other contestants in her group, the staff and dance teachers ability to function. They had to learn the dance without her and the dance teacher had to make decisions regarding her absence. So yeah they had a right to feel a certain way about her work ethic, however, what was not okay was everyone continually talking about her behind her back and holding a grudge. It would have been best if someone decided to talk with Manon as a group before they let it get to that point because all of that miscommunication manifested into anger and strained relationships between Manon and the rest of the girls. (Side note: I do appreciate Sophia for going to Manon multiple times about her absences)! After hearing all the things people were saying about her, Manon had to organize the meeting and I appreciate her for taking accountability and stepping up in the end. The fact that this whole situation has blown out of proportion makes me so angry. At the end of the day nobody is perfect and I wish K-pop stans could see that.
i mean the girls didnt do anything to the general public, LOL they don't need to be forgiven for anything unless its between themselves. general public just has to move onnn
@@winneh1398 I’ve edited my comment a bit. Hope it depicts the situation accurately
on the open forum, Sophia did mention they told her about it but it seems she's still doing it regardless.
Exactlyyy
@@momotsuyuonce9473 Yeah like they saw that clip and already branded her the mean girl, did y'all even understand what she said?
"They go from believing that everyone around them has the ability to debut as long as they work hard enough, to the prospect that they will probably be eliminated for factors beyond their control-" The way I hate it so much that this is literally every single company a person will work for. Whether it's kpop or a retail job. A lot of employers seem to enjoy toying with you emotionally so far to see whoever is still willing to stick around despite clear judgement and critique for things far beyond your control. This is definitely something I learned taking on multiple different jobs as an adult.
Hybe really does need to stop with the documentaries; at this point they’re doing more harm than good. Which could be their intention, if they follow the school of thought, that any attention is good attention.
Keeping the competition aspect a secret was so underhanded and cruel. By not telling the girls that, it greatly damaged intergroup relationships between the members and contestants. It seems like Hybe and Geffan had no qualms about sabotaging the reputations of the girls, if it brought more attention to the show
Two truths can coexist, and I believe nobody was in the wrong. It’s heartbreaking to see Manon being scapegoated for the unfair set up of the show; and it’s wrong for Sophia and Lara to be getting hate by showing their feelings.
People always want authenticity from Idols, until they show that their human.
Great video as always!
We need a law Litterally just made for hybe to say STOP MAKING DOCS
true
The documentary was already planned and announced last year
i disagree i love the docus… its real and raw, unfortunately stans lack critical thinking skills and take everything out of context and lack empathy 😔
Why should they stop ?? Documentaries are meant to tell your stories and struggles .just cause Kpop community is too dumb to understand the concept doesn't mean they should stop.
Right ppl are not realizing that EVERYONES feelings were valid , they want to quickly point the finger at someone and call them the villain
Kpop fans are way too obsessed with looking for villains in every situation like that's not how real life works
@@mitchierainbow7353yup, and this is why I am disconnecting from kpop. Kpop stans are full of hate, it’s too toxic.
This is so easy to understand. I will never understand kpop stans or whatever for being so incapable of adding up 1+1.. no one is in the wrong here and all the girls feelings are easy to understand and valid! People like you that make these videos are so important in kpop these days.. because these people wont understand the obvious unless someone explains it to the tea like this..😭
Literally, I thought it was obvious it was a bts doc that was supposed to show the raw parts of the industry in a new light and how it affects the idols, part of that being the high pressure situation putting them in a hard position with relationships and stuff yet Kpop fans find a way to misconstrue, twist, and make this situation into something not even remotely close to what was happening (like those 8 second clips on tik Tok of the doc that show a part of the doc out of context) And the way their fans switched up is crazy
I feel like the nuance some of the stans forget is that
a) all of the girls were between the ages of 15-22, so they aren't fully matured adults yet
b) not all of the girls arrived at the same time, so the dynamics will just be different due to lack of familiarity
c) they were all under insane stress with their scheduling (Iliya literally said when Manon arrived that they are so busy they can't even think to miss their family and sometimes don't talk to them for one or two weeks) and then the competition.
All that is a breeding ground for miscommunication, misunderstandings, and drama. What's important is that they seem to get along better now and they talked it out. Anything else is none of our business
@@itsme456_ you get it✨😭
@@empressfreya9872 all their reasons were valid. If any of us at any age were in their situation and someone like Manon came, we would‘ve been hurt and stressed. Literally everything is common sense as the video explained but Kpop stans need wars i guess
@@Funa_TakayaManon isn’t even my bias and even I can see that the hate she got from the other girls was a bit unwarranted.. like you said their feelings are definitely valid, putting in so much work only for the vote to be global and not up to like staff and management, but at the same time that isn’t Manon’s fault. It would be a different story if she was like stuck up or something, but she just seemed friendly and really quiet. This was just a terrible situation overall
Finally, someone with critical thinking skills.
Imagine you're a teenager, you get told you've been sleected to be a trainee for two very famous labels, you're flown halfway across the world (in most instances as most of the girls were international), you work extremely hard (8 hour practice days) for 1- 1 1/2 years away from your family and THEN are told that wait, you're actually in a survival show so nothing you did before this point really matters as much as online attention. Manon, who I love, due to feeling overwhelemed and being scouted without previous industry experience- and therefore not fully aware of the demands of this industry- is more lax with turning up to rehearsals than other girls, and doesnt live with them. This creates a divide. THEN she ends up one of the most popular contestants, and to the girls who've been working hard for 1-1 1/2 years it seems so unfair, as they cant really control how the public chooses to vote and it feels they wasted all that time in their life.
People watch the docu with no critical thinking skills, and then go on to either call Manon lazy or a 'dozen' (without taking into account she had NO EXPERIENCE PREVIOUSLY) and the other girls as 'mean girls' for asking Manon to work harder or being frustrated witn the situation in a psychology group meeting. We will never understand the pressures these girls went through back then.
The girls themselves talked about it ON THE SHOW, which everyone should remember was mid- late LAST YEAR. Manon decided to throw everything into the project and became extremely hard working and even spoke to the girls and had accountability, and the girls all moved on. They adore eachother now. Tell me you've never had an argument with your friends and might have been shady? Tell me you've never felt intimidated and tired and maybe skipped a few days of school/ training for whatever? These girls are real. I love all of them and happy to support them because they're so insanely talanted. I just need KPOP fans who are used to not seeing these fights which DO HAPPEN with their faves, to use critical thinking skills.
Plus, we hear so many stories about idols/trainees struggles with mental health, a lot of them mentioning depression and/or anxiety. issues with mental health can be extremely tolling, it’s not uncommon for one to feel a loss of interest or a general apathy towards carrying out obligations or even favored activities
You’re so emotional. It’s not that deep. 😂
@@cactus6196 shhh the adults are talking
I mean most of the girls had no experience … that’s kind of the point of the show!! Some of them had natural talent but nobody was experienced and nobody who entered as an original candidate had ever trained like this before. Manon had private training as soon as she was scouted, and she joined before Lara, who yes was a talented singer but had not trained like that before. I think people make too many excuses for Manon’s lack of discipline and engagement in the process.
I watched the documentary, i think that manon is wonderful, but i totally understand the girls' side. It's like studying hard for a test and seeing someone who skipped all their classes do well, it's a valid feeling, but the most K-pop fans really like drama and HYBE was really stupid to think that some scenes couldn't be just cut. I really hope this doesn't affect the group. All the girls have a lot of potential and talent.
Manon said at the end of the documentary that she really didn't have much discipline and wasn't used to training so hard like the other girls, so she recognized that she learned from what happened, that's what matters.
THIS
it made use so jealous
It’s not jealousy, it’s frustrations. She’s disrupting the practice flow and the other members were practicing so hard like their life depended on it and someone fvcked it up when they decided they wanted to come in today. If it’s jealousy then Sophia wont be confronting her and encouraging to go show up, practice and up her game. She just let her fall and be stagnant for the rest of her trainee life.
manon solo stans r too close minded to comprehend this don't bother explaining
Thank you for saying this!
Honestly I always had this thought: how do you go from training in direct competition to each other to being in a group with these members that maybe you dont get along like this or kicked people you liked better or think were more your friends or you think are more talented.
Even without a survival show you live together as trainees and then the next day you are expected to all get along great and get to a good team dynamic
Yeah, I think the documentary depicting real idol life is why it's important. I think it's meaningful art that should be protected against people that want to stir up shit.
As for the answer to the question, I think competitive sports are a decent analogy. I've been the last player to make a team and I've also been the last player cut. I think when teams start playing games people forget about what happened during tryouts because it's not important anymore, and I imagine Kpop is similar. You just have to move on.
I don't know how it is in other companies but in JYPE personality is very important. In fact, that's probably the most important criteria to be selected. So I think they really evaluate them in a way that shows who is capable to get along with other members, being responsible and stay humble. I can't guarantee if it works all the times as I don't know the reasons behind Woojin and Jinni going solo but it definitely worked for Twice, NiziU and Itzy as a whole (the first two got formed trought a Survival Show)
For instance, you can see during Sixteen's final episode that Jeongyeon was so shocked when Minyoung (the best vocalist of the show and close friend to her, Nayeon and Jihyo) didn't make it into the final line up. She was so shocked that she was spacing out, she didn't even congratulate Momo and Tzuyu at that time however she gets along with both of them and with all members since the beginning. The reason is that she was always a very caring person who also happens to be a prankster, so eventually everything worked out even if a closer friend at that time (and someone more vocally talented) was eliminated. Nayeon and Jihyo were shocked too just not as much as Jeongyeon but they are very caring as well
Tbh I think it takes time. Years and years of living with someone will help iron out those issues. I'm an Enhypen fan and I swear after they debuted when the survival show ended, it felt so awkward seeing them together and around each other. But 4 years later and they're literally a family. The good thing about kpop is they make you live together and you end up naturally becoming closer and having a "team" mentality. Groups like fifth harmony didn't live together and had lives outside of the group so it's easier to see division there. Also, because Katseye has a lot of kpop fans, their natural competitors will be other kpop groups. And since there's so much competition, it's easier to form a team bond if that makes sense?
The simplest, easiest, and most effective answer is timing.
These girls have been together for 1-2 years. They all care for each other in some aspect. Once it became the final 6, you learn, accept, and realize that these are your people and this is your team.
This is why the show ended in November but they didn’t debut until June. They were given a full 6-7 months with JUST these people. Just by nature, your connection furthers more than ever.
The good news is that they don’t have to be the best of friends to work. My friends and I are a group of 6 (originally 11) content creators. I have 1 person who is my best friend and the other 4 I love, but it’s not the same. It doesn’t change the fact that we are still close and work well together. It also doesn’t mean I don’t miss the other 5, but hey, life happens and this is my team now
Exactly ! Manon, Sophia or Lara aren't villains.
Manon didn't show up in a lot of practices and rehearsals (not only because she was sick, she wasn't sick all the time) and also had to move out because she wasn't respecting the dorm rules. So I understand the frustration of the other girls. Even the trainers were saying that Manon implication was lower. BUT ! Manon took accountability, she showed maturity by having a talk with girls and promising to make efforts.
This documentary was... em... The fact that the trainees didn't know they were doing a survival at first really shocked me. Let's take the example of Emily. She was ranked 1 in dance and 3rd overall. With the survival thing, she got to rank 17 because of the vote and eventually ended not debuting when she could have without the survival. And also filming their therapy session ? Seriously ? that's gross.
I absolutely hated the voting process because they were voting on looks and on nationality
@@goatcheesee yes this is was horrible. Girls who were ranked high overall and had a good chance of debuting suddenly ended up in the last contestants
@@elfy2006 the K-pop is so incredibly toxic when the show is coming out the amount of horrible stuff I saw about the girls online was so disgusting. They really should’ve just kept it to the judges.
It was because people didn’t think she was as pretty (she is!) which is unfair, she’s talented. She worked harder, but they’d rather someone with less ability who fans want
@@bolng8958When will people realize that life isn't fair and that you don't deserve anything. Talent and hard work isn't enough in the industry. They chose the people who will make them the most money. Emily also didn't fit in with the rest of the group, she is shorter. It's not just about talent, it's about being a good fit
everyone is so afraid to say that Manon was popular because she's pretty and her skills became completely unimportant the moment audiences started voting. i appreciate that she started working harder, but i do not blame the other contestants for being pissed that she got to live their dream while not being as consistent as they were.
Exactly 💯
Im confused. Manon is the most popular member. But sophia is always #1 in votings... Or maybe its not only based on fan votes
@@jermainerodgersi think the main reason y sophia was so irritated was because adele got eliminated because they seemed to be best friends. i’m pretty sure she thought she was gonna debut with her but couldn’t
But some of these contestants had been training for 12 to 18 months even before Manon arrived. Why wasnt that seen as "unfair" as well?
The whole situation was "unfair" but at least Manon's popularity was organically earned contrary to the trainees, who had a more systemic advantage.
Which is why I think the reall villain of the show is the management/production company. They are treating these girls like garbage imo.
@@moustik31"manon's popularity was organically earned" and it's literally just due to her pretty privilege 😭😭 what kind of point are you even trying to make
The show gave me the ick. My top icky moments:
-When the girls didn't know about it being a survival show and by the time they found out it was too late for many of them too back out
-When the fans and management implied Emily was not pretty enough
-When Iliya lost points because the fans she looked 'too mature' (why are they so obssessed with debuting kids??)
-Manon not putting enough effort (even before she got sick) and yet coasting by on looks. And when the girls complained or were understandably frustrated by that, they were portrayed as bullies/mean girls
-The girls being forced to use their own social media to promote themselves, even those whom were not completely comfortable/used to promoting themselves like that. T
And my biggest one:
-when the manager said fans can be very possessive of them and they should welcome that. Like WHAT?!!! Many of them are minors too!
I watched the whole thing - I think all the girls seemed fine, certainly not villains. Sophia and Lara were the first to speak up, but they were some of the first to reconcile --they just come off as honest to me. Manon was also very open and honest as well, putting in the work to make things right. All this to say, I'm not particularly a kpop fan, but I do think it's unfortunate if it is coming off in a negative way.
The only “mean girl” here is hybe lol it's understable to the girls feel that way over a competiton based on public votes and it's 100% true that some people vote for the prettiest one instead of the talent (i'm not saying manon isn't talented bc I didn't watch any video of the survival show, i'm talking in general) but the problem is what the heck hybe were thinking with including these scenes in the documental, after the group debuted, yes they're getting attention due of this drama but are they gonna to get real fans or hybe's favorite thing: money? It's hard because now pontencial fans are going to have a bad image of the group based on what people is saying on social media
I feel like alot of the solo stans are using this as an excuse to put unwanted hate on the other girls, like this was almost a year ago and you see that the girls genuinely care for each other, get over it.
imagine trying to outshine the 2 power house of the group SOLAR 🤣 good luck with that.....
I knew Manon solos hate Sophia since dream academy bec Sophia received 14 votes from other trainees while Manon only have 1 votes. so Im not surprised they are against Sophia. I dont know whats their beef with Lara though 🤔
@@jbadasgats1054The way I saw M solos said SolarZ is jealous of Manon's popularity, as if Solarz ranking is not top 2 on DA😂😂
@@heartbeat7223 literally 🤣 top 1 and 2 ....and Sophia is the leader of the group and laras vocal!🤯 thats hard to beat men....
@@heartbeat7223 they want manon to be the one and only star of the group they dont want to share spotlight...
6:55 heavy on this
Manon took the bullets that girls felt about this whole situation and that’s why I can’t be mad at anyone. Manon did get unfair treatment from the girls but if I look in the girls pov I would have been bitter too and probably would have been the same. I’m competitive as hell and even been in a similar situation with track when I was younger (cus this girl was skipping practice but she was the most popular on our team) and my reaction wasn’t mature to say the least.
But this is a while ago. People grow and people need to get over it esp cus half the people fighting don’t care about manon at all let alone even stained the group
People seem to dismiss the fact that these girls were teenagers at that time
@@kpopisenoughI been mentioning this a lot too and they know but they don’t care.
Competitive teen girls can get into lil cat fights. It happens. You mature and get over it
I don't get why her popularity impacted you??? What the heck.
@@fyori7376because people will perfer someone who draw attention, rather than someone who works hard, like how some people say sakura was only put in le sserafim because of her popularity
@@fyori7376 they literally said it's the competitiveness. you put in a shit ton of hours to be the best and here comes someone who doesn't show up, doesn't do the work, but gets rewarded for the behavior. it feels like everything you did to get better is worthless. why bother training when "bad" behavior gets reinforced?
Manon's popularity came in part (IMO) due to one comment from a judge who said something to the effect if "she's good but she needs to get serious and show up if she wants to continue on" and to me, in a competition that deliberately gave us as viewers absolutely no context to the contestants beyond performances, that felt like an "evil edit". A way for us as viewers to side against her, because there was no context to her absences. I haven't watched the doc, but I'm shocked to learn that they didn't know they were in a competition. What an ugly situation for Hybe to put them in.
In the end they gave us context on her absences. The seriousness part was mainly because she was breaking rules (being late, not respecting curfew) and literally not taking it seriously by skipping lessons when she was just not feel like going sometimes. But there is also a misunderstanding because she thought classes were not mandatory… and her morale regarding her skills set took a tool fs it’s really complicated, which is sad. and after all this she even got sick with COVID mess😢
She was absent and she apologized for being unserious she literally took it for granted untill girls everyone voice out
Even worse, they didn’t know for the first eight months it would be a competition show w votes, and then suddenly they knew.
So like in the beginning, they were only being judged on their skills and how hard they were working, by their maybe future bosses… Like for example, that little blonde Emily who got cut in the finale, she was in first place almost every week before they knew it was a voting show, because she was such a good dancer and always friendly and nice at practice and everything, so the executives loved her most… then suddenly she went from that & being the sure thing, to being near the bottom of 20 in fan votes they weren’t expecting.
So when it suddenly became a fan voting thing it also then affects the judges because obviously even if they really like someone they’re not gonna put them in the group if all the fans hate them lol because they want to make money from the fans…
So like take Manon who already came in with 2 million social media followers… before it was fan voted, she was near last place all the time bc she was new at everything… but then they open fan votes and she has 2million ppl who recognize her lol… same with some others… so how can you compete w that as a brand new unknown person…
So not only was it a talent and hard work competition from the start, just judged by execs like is normal for a musician, but suddenly it was fan voting so obviously a popularity competition too bc they were voting based on looks and social media presence which wasn’t as much considered in the early days w just hybe. It totally changed overnight for them all, not even just in how it was going but like some ppl went from top to bottom & vice versa.
This is why you should've watched the doc like the many others. She kept missing the rehearsals and there was even one time she was with her sister and missed practice 'cause she felt like it.
Nah dude some girls were training for 1 & 1/2 - 2years before they knew it was a survival show @@speeeee35
I agree! I was so confused by the overall tone of the show, it felt like they were glorifying the psychological torment of the girls! It was more of a commentary on the unfortunate amount of gravitas social media seems to have on society at large, I thought the girls did their best encountering something traumatic.
You’re missing a crucial point about Manon joining the program late with 0 trainee experience. That definitely affected her morale as well..
This omg!! Everyone else had training in either singing or dancing from when they were a kid and manon had nothing at all
Wouldn't that just mean that she should exert more effort knowing that. No one was ostracizing her from the start too
She joined late but hybegeffen actually send her a dance teacher before she join with the other girls.
Oh gaslight again. Cut that bull
@@jaco2174 people react differently to situations. Some take the chance to put in work 24/7 to catch up. Others see just how far behind they (think they) are and lose all confidence and start to wonder if they even have the right to be there. It's a personality thing. What's important is that she woke up and did the work
I believe Manon actually just knew from the start that shes debuting no matter what so she barely showed up which is kinda understandable for the other girls to be sour
100%
Even if they didn’t do a survival show with fan voting her spot would have still been secure.
Okay, this makes so much sense.
Not sure if the girls knew but the directors definitely knew. They knew who was debuting from the beginning. Okay, Sophia from episode 1 was told by the reps she had leader vibes, she was always at the top of evaluations and was coaching all the girls, talking to them like she was their big sister, and she was talking to Manon as if she had already debuted and she was the leader. Manon on the other hand had the stage Prescence, visuals and singing abilities which made everyone want to vote for her. Daniella was immediately singled out from the rest due to her early dancing career and Latin heritage. The coaches saw something in her they saw in themselves They always knew
Yup the only thing that wasn't in their cards was Lexie (Bang's fave) quitting which lowered the shorter girls' chances (Emily, Ezrela, etc) but increased Megan and Daniela's even when they scored lower in fan votes.
it’s honestly so ANNOYING that everyone is only focusing on the NEGATIVES of the documentary. cos this whole manon situation wasn’t even the main focus of the series. their was so many WHOLESOME moments and i loved watching all the members relationships progress as well as their training. UGH
right!! the scene where the finalists were practicing ‘all the same’ and they all broke down and start crying while dancing 😭😭🥹🥹
@@teresa18870 OMG YES. SO SWEET!!!!!
The birthday candle moment was so cuteee
That was Hybes intention from the start. Wanting people to only talk about the negative shit, because drama sells sadly. A lot people enjoy that. I mean, theres a reason as to why the media loves to capture celebs worst moments, focus on the fights, edits interviews, questions about their personal life and the main focus are their mistakes, etc. Don't agree with it, but thats just how it works.
@@gini4681 sucks!!!
Thank you so much for this omg. Like I don’t understand how people refuse to understand other perspectives and refuse to actually try and understand what was happening.
I feel like the whole documentary just made everyone look bad 😭
Probably planned so people can yap more 😭
people acting like the members can't grow from their mistakes. Like it's been a year I am sure the girls have talk it out with each other and are okay now
The amount of betrayal and backstabbing Lexi must have felt when the whole show was turned into a survival game thingy. It was too toxic for her, even the low ranks made her lose hope in something she was working so hard for. If the competition voting was left to the judges I think the lineup may had been different, however I do love the lineup more than anything. In terms of aesthetic, skill wise, visual appeal and presentation.
My bias is manon. As a black girl I love her more than anything but I have to be honest about some things and I will not make the other girls look bad because of my love for manon, I will not cause more misunderstanding than this show already is because I will speak the TRUTH and the truth only, I hate to sugarcoat things.
Looking at the behind the scenes to me, it felt manon didn’t take the show as serious as she was supposed to(compared to how the other girls did).
I mean to be frank she missed practices cus she was sore, which shouldn’t be an excuse cus everyone gets sore and she lived separately from the girls. Heck, the girls didnteven get to know her becus of that!
She thought it was okay to JUST skip practice. She formed zero relationship w the girls and also executives who were all training her. So to me, I don’t think the girls were being mean when they Voiced out their opinion to their psychologist. I mean what then is your psychologist meant for? they were simply speaking the TRUTH. which is valid to me for someone who worked hard like Adela, after seeing the behind the scenes she really isn’t this mean girl
None of the girls were mean, especially when it comes to Sophia and Lara. Sophia mentioned that she did talk to manon about it but manon was still not there for them when they needed them. This is normal human behavior to someone you do like but their actions seem otherwise
but at the end of the day, I’m glad that manon had a meeting with all the girls and this brought out some sort of extreme character development for her. Ever since she had that meeting, that was when she started getting close to the other girls and that was when she understood the amount of dedication and commitment it took to become an artist. She was mature have that meeting with them and most importantly she was brave to admit her wrongs and apologize to everyone for it. This is why she debuted because she reached a level of character development that complimented her star quality and her skills did improve over time. I’m happy she debuted, couldn’t imaging any one else in the lineup than my girl manon❤
All of katseye fans bias is Manon
I agree there are no villains except the producers who lied to the girls. Plus these are all very young girls and inexperienced in the industry or having jobs. I felt sick they were taken advantage off. All of them were miss treated by this company. All their behaviors and frustration are real and shouldn’t be judged. It should have been illegal to film therapy sessions and I’m questioning this a lot.
My impression of Manon is simply that she's a princess type. As in, I think she led a very comfortable and somewhat spoiled/pampered life up until being scouted. This isn't a condemnation of her, I just think that from what we've seen of her family and home life, she's a cherished daughter who has probably never had to deal with real hardship. I think when it comes to training, she had probably never even ever encountered something so demanding/difficult before in her life before and so she didn't realize that she needed to take it seriously at first, or how hard it would be. I don't think there's anything malicious about her or her intentions. I just think that she merely was unfamiliar with what was required of her, and she needed to learn the value of hard work. Which she did. It's a story with a happy ending.
As a member of the entertainment industry, I will say competition is a given. There isn’t, unfortunately, room for everyone in one space. You win some and you lose some. I was very SHOCKED that they even allowed Manon to become the villain like this. Everything that happened with her was LITERALLY OUT of her control. Also WHY are Lara and Sophia villains? I don’t understand that! While it was nice to see the actual structure of the TandD, I did not like the documentary as it just shined ALOT of people in a bad light, not just the contestant. The only REAL reaction that I felt happened was Lexis. And the fact that they manipulated them to pick 5 members and then showed it. Like wow. All for the drama!
IKR it rekindled old nonsense that the fans were waiting for tgo have an excuse to go at each other, bad idea on HYBE to even make this when ithought itwould show their hard process of debuting
@@darealplutoseraph yes I just thought it would be the journey like XG doc. They made this way too problematic
It was heartbreaking that they made the girls give their favourites, telling them no one would see it, then show everyone for the drama. I loved how Lexie stood up for her values in that moment and after. But overall we saw how loving and supportive all the girls were for each another and I thought it was all so sweet. Seeing this and the friendships I thought was the highlight of the show.
I think people should try to understand both sides.
In my opinion, the girls had a right to be upset all things considered. But I also believe most of them treated Manon unfairly and were also shady at times. She had no prior experience unlike most of them who have been training since they were kids. Plus, it seemed like alot of them were talking about Manon behind her back since it looked like Manon was the one to address the situation first which makes them look even worse (especially Sophia and Lara considering they made the lineup).
Manon is honestly such a vibe and didn’t deserve any of that treatment.
Whats even worse is that they JUST debuted less than a week ago. HYBE should’ve waited later in their career to release this imo.
What’s your perception now?
To me, I just wish I saw more about the Katseye girls
But all this documentary shows us is that these girls are just human, with imperfections, and I think that's fine. It makes them more relatable instead of this perfect picture of a group of pretty girls
Megan did mention in the documentary that there were girls like Manon who had no experience when entering the program but that continued to show up every day and put in the effort while Manon was constantly skipping rehearsals.
@@graceleev Megan saying that doesn't change the fact that there were also girls who skipped practice that were never confronted and blamed like Manon was. Both things can be and are true.
@@goldyd144 Can you name these girls who skipped practice like Manon?
The Training & Development part of the show was MUCH better. Yeah, it definitely wasn't helpful that the staff didn't tell the trainees that it was a competition show especially since they nurtured the girls who were naturally competitive and left the other trainees to fend for themselves basically. They said you can't lit a fire for someone else but telling the girls that this was a competition would've been helpful. Obviously the girls on a lower skill set would not feel the competitive nature of training to get to Dance level A as some of the more professional dancers in the group. They were focused on self-improvement and since they had no idea how long they were gonna train for they didn't see the need to rush their development. Then you had them adding new girls like Manon which shook the core of the girls because Manon had no prior training yet was brought in after they trained for 6 Months straight. That was when the wedge started the implement itself between Manon and the girls. Lara was also brought in solo after months of training but it was clear she was scouted for her vocal ability so nobody felt she was inferior to them like unfortunately Manon felt and the way it looked. I'm pretty sure Lara joined after like a year straight of training so the girls probably thought she was the final piece that was missing as they weren't told there was gonna be 20 trainees which was another mistake. Then they brought in 5 more trainees all of who were from Japan and South Korea who couldn't speak English but were treated better than Manon due to how limited the time they had to prepare before being thrown into a survival show.
I truly think Manon got the short end of the stick being the first trainee to be added to the group who had already been training for months on end. Especially since she was a beginner in training it didn't make sense to them why she had been added. That's why the hatred for the system was put into Manon cause literally all the other girls who were at the top of voting were for factors besides talent. In fact only 1 of the top 6 in voting was put there based on talent the others were boosted thanks to country origin, ethnicity, or looks. Manon unfortunately had to take the fall as they literally thought she was inferior and didn't belong. In fact out of all the trainees that were added Manon was like the only one who was a beginner in both dance and vocal. Also the teachers/staff did absoluetly nothing to help bridge a very clear gap in the group and they had some clear favoritism amongst the trainees.
Who was that 1 person that was in top 6 based on talent? Also a big part that played into it was manon thinking that it was enough to 'look pretty and have star quality'. She is very confident in her looks and thought she could rely on those only/mostly. She even said when speaking to her sister that she had star quality and that she doesn't need to be the best vocalist & dancer. Afterwards she didn't go to the rehearsals because 'she didn't feel like it'. The 'feeling inferior/insecure' might have been there in the background but I don't think it was the number 1 reason why she had bad work ethic. But honestly we know now that she works hard and that she's imoroved a lot so I feel like those discussions are a bit unnecessary lol.
Thank you!! They all benefited from pretty privilege or having a certain nationality/ethnicity at some point. The only reason why they got mad at Manon receiving these benefits was because they didnt think she deserved to be there. People are so dense.
I think it’s clear that the real villain of the show was Hybe x Geffen 😭 esp Bang and Mitra. Bang for rushing their training and Mitra for stirring the pot for drama with a smile on her face! Love the choreographers and vocal coaches though, they actually seemed to care about the girls.
I was honestly offended by Mitra saying that this cruelty was what we the viewers wanted to see. Some people are trying to defend the show runners by saying it would have eventually been a competition anyway, why does it matter? It matters that they LIED and said, who do you think should be eliminated? no one will see or hear what you said, and then turning around and showing all them what was said! That was so messed up! I don’t blame Lexie for leaving after that and she was one of my favorites. After watching the show I found myself disliking the company more than I already do and feeling bad for all of the girls involved.
I’m also annoyed by the pushing of the “girl group version of BTS” narrative. If that’s the case they should involve the girls in the writing and producing of their songs. Bang also needs to let it go and admit he essentially won the lottery with that group of guys. I’m not trying to downplay the effort of those working in the company, but the constant chase of trying to replicate that success comes off as disingenuous and I think we’re all a bit tired of it.
I think Hybe just needs to stop & take a step back. They keep jumping from one group or issue to the next without trying to resolve them. What was the point of creating this documentary? Why show us this side to a group that's barely a year old? Why agree to this editing/final cut knowing how they've dealt with a major bullying scandal in the past?
I feel like hybe just isn't at a point (managment wise) to deal with all this & needs to reevaluate. A lot has changed for them over the past few years but I can't help but question if they (as a company) are biting off more then they can chew.
Old lady here: These girls are young. They don't get that a large percentage of life is a crapshoot. You can have the best skills and not get the job; you could be the most attractive person inside and outside and never find a romantic partner; this is life. As someone said to me when I cried, "Life isn't fair!" They said, "Fair? If you want the fair it's coming around in October." The sad truth is that life isn't fair but that doesn't mean you should give up.
ETA, in one of the episodes, a girl asks a trainer, "is this a survival show?" and she was told No.
The netflix documentary should have been aired before the debut. Tides would have been shifted and people would have seen and learn who to vote. But ultimately the company had their favorites and choose who they wanted from the get go. Many girls didn't have enough screen time which is unfair. And learning that the ones who put so much support and effort at the beginning ended up leaving. I doubt the group will last even 5 years. The base seems to have gained momentum. Will see.
whoever is seeing this, they should have be OPEN MINDED before watching the documentary. disclaimer, the documentary was like a year and a half ago and people fail to realize that obviously they have talked about it and has gotten closer ever since. I am an ot6 stan and I get both sides. they all had to be professional. but the unnecessary hate towards Sophia and Lara? Y'all are so dense lol. they all clearly made up judging by all their recent contents and videos. Manon solo Stans, calm yalls asses a little bit. stop always tryna victimize Manon and tryna speak for herself!! we don't need negativity in this fandom. ANYWAYS STAN KATSEYE OT6
REALLL
They’re pulling race cards! 🙄 Manon acted childish, realistically, Sophia the most mature one in the group will be so frustrated about it. She was the one who gave encouragement to co trainees and here’s Manon who knows she has low skillset but was not trying to do anything about it. It was also said in the show, the label was breaking lots of rules in favor to Manon. Is that being discriminated?
It's the way you guys can accuse and call manon names and never defend her from the toxic solo stans of the other girls but expect no toxicity back from her solo stans. You guys are giving space to villainize and isolate manon. Calling her dozen and just a pretty face only encourages more division within this group/fandom. I've only ever seen her fans defend her, why do you guys as the "ot6" not defend her like you're defending the other girls? It's so mean spirited.
@@fyori7376they were in a survival show. the producers literally made a toxic environment just to make things “entertaining” which was said in the documentary. it’s natural that the girls would have negative emotions towards each other. sophia had owned up to it and also Manon admitted that she was also slacking and also owned up to it. but people still keeps saying negative stuff and i know damn well they didn’t even finish the whole documentary. it’s like they’re more hurt than manon. it’s to the point where the solo stans do a little to much and spread more negativity when it isn’t needed. it just makes the fan base toxic💀
@fyori7376 that's because there's nothing to defend Manon from . Most people didn't like the fact that she debuted , that's a valid reason because she 1. Has a low skills set , 2. Despite having a low skills set didn't come to train , 3. Just when she understood that her beauty is gonna pave the way for her she suddenly started being so much hardworking , gimme a break . Manon stans are manipulative and toxic , Sophia or Lara stans are nowhere as toxic, Sophia had been working hard from day 1 , showed up for practice and filming even when she had COVID , Lara literally gave up part of her identity because it was too intimidating or provocative for their show , had to tone down her singing cause she always sang like a soloist, even though had no dance training and started training so much later , still ended up becoming one of the best dancers of their group, Daniela took harsh criticism from day 1 and perfected herself , Megan who was always on top of the ranking along with Lara and Sophia still showed up for hours of practice and mind you this whole thing was 2 years (except Lara cause she joined late) , suddenly their frustration is invalid ? not to mention Lara haven't even said anything that serious and she also mentioned how she's agreed to forget everything and start fresh with Manon , Manon stans want her to be defended from hate , the hate that is literally non existent . Y'all can't see the frustration of all the other trainees who trained for so many days getting eliminated by someone who's simply pretty.
I think people who jumped to the hate train are just immature and can't accept reality. Remember that they're from different countries with different cultures.
The way I screamed at the TV in those final episodes when the survival show kept destroying those poor girls out of nowhere. I followed the survival show religiously when it was happening, but I like everyone else assumed that the girls knew what they signed up for. To learn that they thought the group would be formed like a normal audition but then it turned into a popularity concept? Heartbreaking for those girls
The injustice/frustration that those girls were feeling towards Manon is not just characteristic of the entertainment industry - it's characteristic of life itself. Just because you work the hardest does not mean you are the best, it does not mean that people will like you the most and it doesn't mean you will get the furthest. In nearly every industry being well-liked is just as important (if not more) as your performance. If you've ever had a job, you have most likely had a manager that you thought "How the hell did you get this job while I'm stuck doing this?" And sometimes you learn it's because they got lucky, or they were the best option at the time or that the reason they don't seem to have it together is because of some struggle you're unaware of. All that to say, a surprise competition show is unethical. Especially for people that young who have very likely never fully learned that lesson. They need to never ever do this type of show again. Especially showing therapy sessions.
@@Chachixo and this is Why IS jealous and envy, u don’t act like that when someone is doing better than u… is not her fault
I think the most frustrating thing about it all is that people don’t understand the intersectionality behind it all. Multiple things are right at once. I get the frustrations the girls had about Manon’s presence especially because it affected them directly. Totally valid. However it wasn’t just her absence and i feel like people aren’t honest about that. It was very clear that there was some underlying jealousy from the girls, which is inevitable when it comes to a survival show. Still it should be acknowledged when dissecting this documentary. The girls might’ve noticed her absence and had their opinions about it, but they only started having an actual problem with her when it turned into a competition and they now believed she was an actual threat who could take her place, a pretty one at that. I mean look at every time they talk about her, her prettiness is always brought up when their main focus should be her absence. But the most important thing is that this resulted in them gossiping about her, giving her dirty looks and kinda shutting her out. And thats what people had an issue with, not them holding her accountable for her absence. They felt threatened by manon catching the publics eye and instead of hating the game, they started hating the player too even though this was clearly not in Manons control. Bottom line i wish them the best, but its understandable that people call out their mean girl behavior. It is what it is.
i was actually wondering if/when you'd have a say abt this as an eyekon! all of your takes i agree with. and as someone (se asian) who rooted for lara, manon, and sophia, these are some things i've observed (also, i decided not to watch 5/8 of the episodes to protect my peace):
- there's definitely sth worth discussing on how the docuseries tries to portray manon, a young black woman, as "lazy" even though her missing out was completely understandable (getting covid, self-doubt). there's a clip from the show on twt that i've yet to watch where manon seemed like she wanted to say more, but decided not to as previously she was cut off by missy/the others (please cmiiw on this). while the conflict among her & the other girls were not based on her ethnicity, i feel like it's also important to recognize and challenge the negative stereotypes the trainees (and us as viewers) unconsciously internalized. i'm not black, though, so i don't think i should be the one to elaborate on this any further.
- at the same time, while sophia and lara have already received harassment due to the series, i think lara has it worse due to her features. i've even seen folks calling her "looking like a man". have we not learned from the imane khelif situation?
- hxg is 100% to criticize and blame here for putting everyone in this situation. the trainees' hurtful words and actions are not to be dismissed (understanding ≠ defending), but instead of improving(?) their people management, this company chooses clout. and at what cost? this series not only unfairly portrays lara and sophia as "bullies" but also unfairly portrays manon as a "helpless victim" when the situation isn't black & white.
- but yeah, i hope everything has gotten better among the katseye members. i'm hopeful that they're going to understand e/o better as time goes by. to me, to this day the girls do not seem that close yet, but they're getting there. it's definitely not gonna be easy to just bond under circumstances like this
this is the most sane and comprehensive take I've seen on this from a non-black person, thank you lol. I agree on all counts HxG is weird and icky as fuck for putting these diverse women on a global stage and doing absolutely nothing to protect them from the racism that was unfortunately always gonna come with that
@@pandaking9000 thank you! idk what i expected from hxg but the way they basically threw all of these girls/young women to a pit of wolves for $$$ is so disheartening
When Hybe said that there is going to be a documentary, I'm really excited and have been waiting for it since Dream Academy days. Only to find out that the documentary focuses more than half of the screen time to the girls that didn't even debut considering the title to be Pop Start Academy: KATSEYE. Instead we got all these dramas from other girls (not in the top 20) that I don't think are necessary (at least for me). Also, I'm somewhat mad at the fact that it seems that they only added the Japanese trainees as fillers to the top 20 for the survival show. But to keep on topic, I believe that they are so wrong in making drama out of Manon, Lara, and Sophia.
Totally agree with everything you said in this video. Introduces totally unnecessary obstacles to the group's success.
i agree with everything you said! ppl are blowing it way out of proportion. they showed some immaturity while handling a high stress situation they didn’t even know they were getting into fully, and they worked thru it. that’s normal and expected. but sadly i’m seeing it already have a negative effect on their image :/ fans always say they want to see the reality behind the scenes in kpop but are scared to see the idols act as actual human beings with normal flaws
honestly so damn heartbreaking for how much work they put in just to be cut by fan votes based on attractiveness 💔 should’ve just been judges vote smh. and how most of katseye group was talking down in Manon and now they are in a group together😂 AWKWARD
Correction, Manon's absences are not only due to sickness. There are also times when she did not show up because she just didn't want to. A clip of one of those absences are literally shown in the documentary.
sure, but this doesn't change the premise of op's discussion
@@winneh1398 The girls are at fault but that bit of misinformation is minimizing the fault on Manon's side. Both did something wrong and it's only fair that it is discussed right.
the way they use that is so shady but she never getting kick out so what was the point
Stop casting black folks please the venom from them is hell😂😂 rally for other companies
So did other girls but they only acted like that towards Manon. And that was because she was actually popular and that was a threat to them. On top of that there was a misunderstanding. Manon didn't know the system of kpop training and due to the culture she grew up in, she thought she could take a rest when needed (very needed especially since the other girls weren't comfortable to be around with as they have isolated her since before she even got to meet them). Because her body wasn't accustomed to the training unlike the other girls who trained longer, her body got sore and it took a toll on her. Having a sore body indicates you need a break, so there is nothing wrong with her getting a break. And she also had covid. Not only is covid a big deal for her health and body, it can implicate the other girls, she HAD to isolate herself from them. They never gave her a chance to explain herself. They just bad mouth her behind her back. This is bullying (they don't have to physically hurt her for it to be bullying). Am sure this impacted her mental health which no one with in this "ot6" fandom seem to care about.
“Girls don’t like Girls, who hate girls, in this world, it just don’t add up”
Man that song was better before that documentary came out.
My brain is still stuck on the therapist section… I get it’s a documentary, so showing some behind the scenes events are a given. But why give a bunch of teenage girls a private space such as a therapist, AND RECORD IT!?
My heart goes out to all groups under Hybe, for some weird reason that company is tumbling head first down the staircase for seemingly no reason.
“Its all love baby, it’s all love…”
To me i personally think with Manon's case, that people are mad because at first they made them think that all the fault is Manon and didn't deserve to be in the group and all that, but after this, they realized that it's actually not and she's also a victim. So they feel bad and angry. And mind you these same people who are saying that it's in the past and should move on, are these same people who attacked Manon online with that one video that said she was being mean towards Yoonchae and that she didn't deserve to be in the group and so on. So it's not easy for people to let this go and it hurts, coz for so long they made us think Manon is the wrong which is not right. Manon is just like me, i sometimes find it hard to explain myself when a lot of people come at me at a time so it must be hard. She's must have taken in a lot which she wasn't even given a chance to explain herself. But anyways, if she's letting go, then we will as well 😊
This it was a crime to stab manon and when she was receiving hate during debut era none of the fans except Manon Stans defended her .
Yes.. and now all of their fans is a manon stans . They fandom name should be eyemanons
Although i agree with your take that you can't really say anyone was in the wrong for the way they felt about Manon skyrocketing to popularity, there's an element of antiblackness not only did the staff have toward Manon (I'm talking about missy specifically here because she kept painting Manon as someone she wasn't and it didn't seem like ANY of them were asking why she was so distant because let's remember, they kept singling her out and Manon repeatedly stated she wasn't professionally trained like most of them were) , but the contestants as well. Whether it was Adela complaining about not having representation for her people in the industry..i know she meant nationality, but the fact that she didn't stop to think maybe it's a bad idea to talk about representation and then compare it to a black girl? or that scene were Manon pulls all of them aside and explains herself, giving them a perspective that TO BE HONEST, NONE OF THEM WOULD'VE ASKED HOW SHE FELT IF SHE DIDN'T TRY TO RESOLVE THE ISSUE HERSELF. Also, I wouldn't say Manon got to defend herself. She truly didn't because even when she tried to, the girls, specifically SOPHIA and MISSY kept cutting her off and not letting her speak her truth and clearly showed they didn't even attempt understanding her as a person. Sophia for instance says she noticed Manon doesn't pay attention and doesn't takes notes when we literally see how Manon DOES pay attention and DOES take notes in another scene. It irritated me how those girls could've apologized for their wrong assumptions AS WELL and instead Manon had to carry all the burden and was portrayed as "the main problem." It's also a case of subconscious racism that almost all of them were displaying in my opinion because most non-black people have this preconceived idea that Black girls will always act a certain way and when we aren't, it confuses people to the point they can become hostile, taken aback, or just distant because we're not acting like they expect us to. Manon's quiet and observant because she's shy and it shows she's observant because the staff mentions how great she did and her ability to keep up despite being an amateur. Yes, I definitely see there's an element of pressure that comes into play in the whole thing, but it's not the sole reason Manon was treated the way she was. Let's remember Manon would also miss rehearsals because she got sick. Also, Lexie began missing MORE rehearsals than Manon did yet she wasn't met with this level of animosity. Popularity and her appearance are NOT the sole reason Manon was being targeted. I hope you understand my point of view. Thank you.
Edit : notice how the minute I mentioned antiblackness, there’s already people gaslighting me? Congratulations you proved my point.
Exactly
I don't think racism has anything to do here, Most of the contestants were people with color and she's not the only black girl in there and stans are quick to use the race card in this one. If you watched Dream Academy at the part where the girls had to vote which one they think would debut one of the girls to get most of the votes is a black latina girl. The only issue with the girls was that they felt it was unfair for the other girls who we're doing their best, I know it wasn't a good thing for them to gang up on her but people forget that these girls are forced under pressure and competition by the management to create drama. Also solo stans misinterpret the open forums as a way for them to say scum off her while infact they were compelled to say what they felt during those times and Manon was always absent to hear any of it, Sophia never bad mouthed her in fact she gave her constructive criticisms but also commended her at the end. Lara also gave her sentiments and sorted it out with her, all their actions was valid it was a competition after all and the management did mention they wanted the drama. In return she took that advice willingly and she did better after. People judging the girls base on what happened a year ago as if no friendshop bloomed from initial rivalries. If anything I find it even cute that they all started in bad terms which only grew to a strong sisterly bond now.
@@momotsuyuonce9473 your mistake is assuming people of color can’t also be discriminatory towards other poc and black people. Like I said again, yes pressure plays a part into it but you literally ignored every detail I gave as to why their behavior felt antiblack. It’s not that simple and there’s technicalities to this subject y’all are actively ignoring and choosing not to dive into because it’s making most of yall uncomfortable
Let’s not pull the racism card cus that’s not what’s happening here and I’m saying this as a black women
It's not racism. When it's a team performance and someone is not giving it her all...that single person can bring the whole team down. Do you understand? They are questioning her work ethic! The show didn't specify how many times Manon didn't go to rehearse...but, I bet it's quite a lot. Sophia only said she talked to Manon several times about going to rehearsals/trainings. Had Sophia specified how many times Manon was absent...I don't think you will be talking about racism here. From what the trainees were feeling...I don't think it's just 3-4 days of absenteeism.
While I think that Sophia could've gone about talking to Manon in a better way, you also have to understand where she's coming from..... even from a neutral standpoint, it's not fair that Manon seems to have missed rehearsals on multiple occasions, and even when she does show up, she's not always paying attention. You would think that she would have more motivation to enhance her skill set especially when those skills are lacking compared to the people around her, but in the beginning it didn't seem that way. Also, Manon seemed to have a habit of breaking rules that don't seem that hard to follow, yet she didn't really face any consequences for it (at least from what we saw). Yes she essentially got kicked out of the trainee house, but instead she got to live with her aunt and sister and sleep in her own room and in her own bed and have the privacy to do whatever she wants. On top of that she has a huge following on social media who will support her no matter what she does because she's beautiful and definitely it girl material. She was also the only trainee specifically recruited to be there. To the people who have been there since the beginning and show up to rehearsal rain or shine, healthy or sick, it just comes as a slap in the face that no matter how hard they work, they will never get the same amount of public support that Manon does. And during a lot of the group's performances, Manon's absence affects them a lot too and they have to put in even more work to make up for her. That can build up a lot of pent up frustration. I do understand that the girls could have been better at communicating this with Manon since the beginning, but 1) the girls probably feel like they have no power in the situation 2) they barely knew Manon and it can be uncomfortable to bring up a touchy subject like this, and finally 3) the girls are all SO young. Honestly how many teenage girls do you know who are at the level of maturity needed to overcome something like this😭
it's a complicated situation
which brings up complicated feelings, and I feel like the documentary did an overall good job of portraying both sides and making it clear that the girls are only human. I'm glad Manon improved so much after this and I'm glad the girls get along well now.
How the tables have turned! Folks were just interpreting Manon as standoffish and rude in interviews when she is just really a bit introverted. I agree, blame the producers but also laughing + side eyeing was a choice.
Manon skipping rehearsals was also a choice tho... but of course that is never being posted on tiktok. There are a lot of manon stans who evil-edited newer videos of them making it seem like lara is hating on her. In the reaction video of debut lara looked at manon and said that she looked good. That was her first reaction. But they cut that out and cut to another part of manon singing where lara was just watching the mv quietly and they claimed that she reacted to all members positively except for manon. That's just blatantly hating on someone using clips they selectively chose that fit their narrative.
@@anastasiamecket3079 yeah, that’s HYBE’s fault for being messy and releasing this randomly. Either way, it’s clear Manon currently being positioned as the center so a win is a win.
@@anastasiamecket3079 The same can be said about sophia stans, there are alot of videos edited to make Manon look like shes lounging in a pool all day while the girls are working the whole time, all the comments are calling manon racial slurs and telling her shes only being voted for because shes black, which is funny since most of these comments are from the phillipines and theyr'e voting for sophia because shes one of them. I saw a manon page call out the racism and people started saying that 'toxic manon stans are trying to bully sophia.' as a response, its a perfect form of gaslighting. I feel for both girls
Side-eyeing??? When it was literally just plain glances??? But if they do, well, don't scratch the part that they were upset at that time with Manon and that they don't feel like faking everything. I would've reacted the same way when I trained for 1 or 1/2 years and put in a lot of effort while a girl who just trained for months (with not enough good talent) skipped or was late to rehearsals (which affected the group) yet still receive the privileges while the others who worked hard and more talented than her are sent out.
Also, please remember that this documentary was all edited and for sure wants to create drama to blow up. That's why there are scenes that we haven't seen in the docu (like for ex, they didn't show when Sophia got ankle injuries)(I watched Dream Academy while the show was still on til the end). That's why they can make anyone as bad or good
@@dreads8220 I agree that hybe is at fault but it's mostly manon-stans' fault. They showed both perspectives (girls & manon) and miscommunications that happens to literally every group and is completely normal. Both parties were at fault, but hybe was at fault for believing that those stans could think critically, think from the trainee's point of views and have some empathy. Most of the ppl hating on the girls aren't even eyekons tho, a lot of anti-katseye accounts changed into manon-fan accounts solely to hate on them and bring their image down. Many manon-stans admitted that they know nothing abt the girl or haven't watched the survival show but simply support her bc she's black ('i dont care if she's wrong, im just supporting ma people'). It's not a win if the girls are getting hated on, they're a group for a reason, they're called 'katseye', not 'manon and friends'. Right now from an outsider's view they see the group as problematic despite only having debuted a few months ago, it doesn't do any good to their image.
My opinion on this whole katseye thing is that missy lead Manon on then switch on her for no reason,Lara and Sophie are not bully’s,just because Lara was laughing..she couldn’t have been laughing at anything,and Sophie was not a bully she was just strict about being in the group because it was her dream,and Adele this girl 💀was just obsessed with Manon the whole documentary,she kept saying we but it was just her,Manon may have missed practices but so did the others but hybe not once show the others missing practice in the documentary,at this point hybe is the one to blame,they know what would happen by releasing this documentary late,while katseye was gaining popularity
adele is not wrong when you practice sooo hard night and day and some one who does not even care about the project get top votes beacoz they are pretty obivously she will point it out
@@garimasuhani7227We all understand Adela but she is definitely immature and a bit selfish. That mentality won't take her anywhere. The world indeed it unfair.
She seems like a cool girl with lots of lessons to learn. I don't support the hate on her though
@@green360z same, plus this is an edited documentary, they could of been asking the girls deliberate questions which would make them look worse, like how do you feel about manon succeeding and you not for example, cause lets be honest, who is just gonna trash talk another girl every single time a camera is in their face? I agree with what you said about adela tho.
I feel like if they released the documentary before the final group was formed, so much would be different now. The final members and order of elimination would definitely be different if we knew what was going on behind the scenes. But the problem is, Hybe didn't showcase their talent and personalities enough for the fans to make a proper decision on who should debut. Don't get me wrong, I love Katseye as they are, but I really wish a different approach was taken to forming the group.
I just watched the whole thing and tbh I expected some evil editing, but this was like jaw dropping the way they painted various members of the group this way, I'm speechless. it so obviously hurts their reputation with the casual "fans" watching these cut up clips without nuance, like.... obviously they did it for the drama but why do it at the expense of what they're saying in the doc is a "life or death" project because of such "high stakes" on this group. bewildering decision, I have no idea what they were thinking.
Hybe needs to stop pressuring the documentaries on us. Point blank period
Or maybe just don't watch it. Point blank period
@meilichankan9282 gurl people need to watch it...otherwise people are gonna judge from few seconds of clip....you either watch it or you don't...but don't make opinions based on tiktok clips . Hybe shouldn't make docu series period.
kpop stans are literally insane. how can you not grasp a simple concept like this? 😭 as unfair as it is to the contestants, that's just the reality of survival shows. the popular girls get to debut, while some may get left behind. Manon definitely isn't the villain, it's not her fault that people basically voted for her despite her absence. It's not something she's responsible for. I definitely understand the other girls' frustration, working so hard just to not debut is a harsh reality, but there nothing we can do about it in the end.
Why do some people think that certain girls deserve to be on high rank because of hard work and dedication. It has nothing to do with that. At the end of the day , ppl vote because of the country affiliation and looks. Adela was eliminiated coz she rank last in votes and manon was ranked high coz she is has the looks.
Omg because that’s what they started with! At the beginning of the program it was all about talent, hard work and dedication. Everything was judged with base and facts by only their instructors and CEO to form a girl group. WHEN they found out it was going to become a survival show (after 1 year of training btw ) they all got triggered because their time and effort won’t matter anymore. Idk how people cannot empathise with that feeling.
Adela is a very pretty white conventionally attractive girl so idk how true that is
@@serenitysubs933 have you watched the documentary? Adela was bullied in the internet for her facial features (her lips). And Manon was really popular because a lot of black girls felt represented.
Marquesse is the prettiest. Like omg.
As a Pre-debut EYEKON,, this was possibly the worst move and marketing strategy hybe & geffen ever did... there were some little tiny moments that EYEKONs wish would have changed i.e Manon being at the back majority of their first single Debut, or toxic stans thinking the group is ignoring Yoonchae WHICH IS LITERALLY THE OPPOSITE bc the girls love Yoonchae.. what Im saying is that this will further divide the fandom and create solo stans, akgaes, more antis, and division within this growing community for EYEKONS... it is so sad to think that just a couple days ago in "katsville" as they say on Twitter haha, everything was just peaceful and calm and everyone was excited for this docuseries to come out,, but then everything went sour.. the girls have been silent and the whole fandom at war within themselves,, I had to defend Manon, Sophia, and Lara from toxic haters who were part of other fandoms joining in for the hate train... yea it's not looking good rn and I hope it dies down as quickly as it started happening... if you are an EYEKON, a safe place to join is their Weverse ;) probably the safest community rn amidst all the chaos ❤ OT6 forever !! Stan our talented girls KATSEYE and please dont listen to all the hate.. watch their previous videos on their channel instead of the documentary!! They have such a strong bond now and I hope as or currently, they are healing and talking with each other bc I know they probably watched that series too ... love yall EYEKONS ❤
thanks for this, this is what im thinking too..... i already deleted my tiktok and stayed away frow twitter...i just want to enjoy the group and the music no need for unnecessary drama.... btw im on weverse too..
Manon's fans posting out of context clips and trying to start a narrative against Sophia and Lara is gonna tear this fandom apart. The fans are too immature to think criticially
I agree with you on all of this. Hybe messed up with this edit and It's gonna hurt their investments in Katseye BIG TIME.
THIS IS MAKING THE BAND 3: DANITY KANE ALL OVER AGAIN
To the others, it came off as Manon didn’t care/seemed arrogant. Because of a lack of communication, they didn’t know it’s cause it’s lacking confidence so things could’ve definitely be cleared earlier by communicating. Also Manon could have told the producers/directors these thoughts too. But I’m not hating on any of the girls as we see like 9 ish hours of filming, and they have been working so hard and must’ve been stressed af. So it all makes sense.
I still it makes the girls (especially the girls in Katsye) kinda look bad. Cause sure they eventually communicated their feelings, but people focused on how it looked like the Katseye girlies were beefing
This is what I agree with the most! At the end of the day it is really just a simple case of miscommunication and a little bit of immaturity on both ends. I hope Katseye’s PR team can fix this mess.
I was genuinely enjoying this so so much in the beginning. I didn’t know anything about Katseye before watching and I was excited to see the process of the girls being picked, but started to become sooo frustrated with the overall favoritism of some of the girls. I don’t hate Manon and do find her very pretty, but I do think that in the beginning she didn’t work as hard. It was difficult to watch girls who sweat blood and tears go home just because the K-pop stans were honestly being racist. Lets call a spade a spade. Now just to clarify everything that went down is not Manon’s felt its the fault of the executives, because they knew their intention from the beginning. They lied to those poor girls and told them they would be picked by their merits and the girls slowly started to find out that wasn’t true. The jealousy that ensued was warranted. Imagine working your ass off and a girl who is super pretty and not as talented comes in and sweeps you just because kpop stans think shes pretty. When the executives decided to cause “drama” thats when I lost my respect for the show. Pitting them against eachother than filming the fallout was soo cruel. It put a bad taste in my mouth and I agreed with Lexi. Out of everyone I’m sop proud of her because she stuck to her morals and you can tell it hurt the executives to see her go which makes me wonder if she was endgame. Its sad to see the turn the show took because honestly i dont think the show needed added cattiness and drama. As if being a teen on a survival show with the kind of stakes they had isnt dramatic enough 😒
I totally agree. I think the girls were mostly just mad at the principle of the situation. I do not believe any of those girls would be ‘mean girls’ in real life. They were all put in such a stressful situation and on top of that had cameras in their faces the whole time.
They don't blame them for feeling frustrated, rather it's the attitude that Sofia and Lara took, which only left a bad taste in their mouths. You can feel a certain way but that does not give you the right to act like that with a person, feelings are not an excuse to have a mean attitude.
Ppl have blamed them for being frustrated and accused them of jealousy and gone as far as to call them bullies and even when you pull up valid criticism some ppl will still argue that they were wrong and shouldnt be worried about others. also the perception of whats mean is based per person. Manon obviously took whaf they said to her and applied it and got over what they said so for the public to be so hell bent on it is just odd
They’re teenage girls dawg can we rlly blame them? 😭
Lol those who would complain about this are the lazy students in class who rely on their classmates to finish a project
Choujimi in his active era❤ and we love to see it
I watched this doc just to know why Lexie left Dream Academy ngl (I don't watch Dream Academy but I saw clips) & I dug a deeper rabbit hole while watching the doc. Nonetheless, please be kind to the members as they're humans with emotions & don't send hate & instead send the members some love!
I absolutely hated how they consistently betrayed the trust of those girls, especially when they'd sacrificed so much to participate in this program. I don't mean in a "ugh well they knew what they were going into, they should have expected this!!!" they were not only shut out from information but repeatedly told false information about the program they were in (specifically it not being a survival show/personal interviews being private) because "the audience wanted that drama."
It just paints them as hypocrites who don't care about the girls. They freaked out more on a girl for posting something on her finsta and made it a "my word against hers" situation (and then broke their own promised confidentiality) than they did about the girl who literally stopped showing up to practice because she had been lied to about the show and didn't like the person they were turning her into.
I’m surprised no one is talking about the obvious factor that affects everyone when choosing their fave idols- superficiality. Manon was extremely popular because of her visuals. This is the sad reality of the industry. When you have unique + pretty visuals that finally coincide with the diverse audience, it became very easy to gain popularity.
she’s literally star material point blank period, only a sad reality to those who don’t get to experience it I guess
@@ihyfabxo congrats on finding your star
the critical thinking stans needed to have to not pick out a villain but to see it from both sides was severely lacking
Finally someone with a good take. I watched this documentary after I had seen the backlash online. I expected to understand the hate but I finished watching it and I was like??? No one was wrong in this situation. It absolutely makes sense that the girls would act like this given the circumstances. I think the documentary was presented in a way that highlights the real challenges the girls went though both physically and mentally, even if it meant showing the bad parts. However, people took those clips and ran with it because they lack thinking skills. I feel awful for the girls who are getting the undeserved hate 💔
Sophia and Lara aren't the villains in this
Neither is Manon
Conflict is able to exist without there being a "bad buy"
Guys the entertainment industry is NEVER about "effort and practice and you will archieve your dreams! UwU ❤️❤️" it's about connection, power, money, and A LOT of luck! Hope this helps! :D
Say it louder!! Most kpop stans dont realise their favs could have only debuted cuz they have connections and the money honestly theres no way there were no talented trainees in some groups lacking talent like that's my take
Agree. I watched the show because I saw some discourse on twitter about manon not being deserving of debuting. But I finished it last night and I still can’t understand what people are making a big fuss about. Lara and Sophia were pretty straightforward, clear and assertive when they had that group talk with Manon towards the ending, I thought everyone ended up handling the situation very maturely.
After watching the Popstar Academy on Netflix and knowing what goes behind the scenes and my thoughts??
The girls who debuted deserved this but I hope HYBE and GEFFEN would read this or hear my plea:
Ezrela, Lexie, and Emily these girls are sweet little angels and they have the talent for being in a girl group. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE debut them on another girl group that has no competition or survival shows. If and only if their training in Popstar Academy is not a survival show or a competition these girls would definitely shine. I just Emily and Ezrela debut too like being in a girl group is literally their dream don’t crush it by just leaving them on air after making them trained so hard for like two years and they gain nothing
Dude that’s the industry, it’s cut throat, meritocracy is a lie. Also Lexie clearly is smart and has strong morals, it’s clear from the documentary she wanted to get as far away from Hype and Geffen as possible..
Another reason I really don’t like the show is just because it made the fans attached to contestants who are not chosen to be in katseye. I don’t think I will ever look at the group the same way I did before the show came out just knowing how so many other girls sacrificed so much and got nothing out of it.
The real villains were the producers and executives. The way those girls were treated was evil. Lexie is incredible for what she did. You could see it in her eyes the moment she made the decision. The betrayal absolutely broke her.
I honestly can't believe this is a documentary by HYBE and Geffen as it makes them look AWFUL.
I am not a kpop fan but i gave this documentary a go and got really invested in the girls and their hard work but i cannot support this group as it means supporting HYBE and Geffen.
Some these girls were CHILDREN and all of them were so young and unprepared for what they were put through.
I thought the coaches were great and so supportive but to give the girls a psychologist and then also film it just further solidifies that they have zero care for these girls wellbeing and are just interested in milking them for as much money as possible.
This whole thing is bizarre. The survival show was in such a weird format that we couldn’t really get to know the girls we were voting for. I bet many may have voted differently if they got to see the behind the scenes.
it’s actually such a joke that the people hating have probs not even watched the whole documentary and if they have and still have these volatile feelings then well… also people calling out adela for targeting manon yet before the public vote she was always ranked highly in both singing at dance #4 by the trainers etc to be then ranked last place #20, a place that was usually occupied by manon ofc she is going to be annoyed seeing someone who at that point was not putting in any effort. manon literally got KICKED OUT their dorm as she was breaking the rules and even before she got sick she missed some of the rehearsals. AT FIRST i don’t really think she was taking it seriously. that is NOT the case now. and ofc this was absolutely not manons fault and whilst she may not of understood their feelings at first as she progressed realising that she wanted to put in the effort and this was what she wanted, she expresses this to the trainees and APOLOGISED. manon realised where she went wrong and heard out the trainees opinions. so if manon recognised that to some extent she was wrong. HELD HERSELF ACCOUNTABLE why can’t her fans. ofc they are allowed to feel some discomfort to their bias being “mistreated” but i think they are not looking at the entire situation and environment that the girls were in. everyone’s EMOTIONS were HEIGHTENED. they also need to remember that the producers wanted DRAMA. they gave us 8 episodes documenting a WHOLE YEAR. they couldn’t of possibly showed us everything.
I observed Manon, and i honestly think she don’t know nothing about Kpop, Guys not everyone is a Kpop Stan, not every girl is a Kpop Stan and know all about IT…she didn’t even know whoTF Le Sserafim was when they visited them… and she probably didn’t know how u should act…Remember that they looked for her and hype wanted her to participate, like the others she was not that interested in being there because she didn't even know about kpop and those things and she didn't know the training method... she thought it was something normal and that you could miss it if you didn't feel like going or not, NOT WITH BAD INTENTIONS.
The girls, if we observe closely, since they were told that Manon was going to arrive and they looked at her on social networks, they began to feel strange, because in real life we know that there are people who are jealous of one for seeing her as a competition, since before Adela (sorry but she always gave me bully vibes) started with weird comments and vibes, and the others got carried away by that, and since then any problem they had was looking to be bad with Manon because the suspicion was noticeable, Manon was not the only one who was missing or who was above Adela but all the time she criticized her, just because she received more attention. Sophia is pretty and talented but the jealousy for manon was there and i don’t know Why
kpop stans are really gonna drag this whole situation cause they can't go a week without finding a new girlgroup to harass. i just know le sserafim are catching their breaths right now
Srsly like take a break. Kpop stans always need some drama I bet if some new scandal or drama happens they'll forget about all this
I think a lot of the problems came from the execution of the survival show. They went in a minimal direction, with only performances, judging and eliminations. I can respect the idea behind this approach. In theory, this makes people focus on their talent/stage presence alone. However, in reality they had way to little content to even know how each member were as a performer. You basically only had first impressions, and star quality is the first thing you notice. I didn't follow the show to the end so correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they only have like 3 missions? Adéla only had like 1 or 2 performances when she got eliminated, and every performance were in groups.
I rolled my eyes when they tried to justify pitting the girls against eachother because drama gives more engagement. The reason you had low engagement was because you're survival show was boring. And it wasn't boring because there was no drama, it was boring because there was no content.
i haven't watched the whole series (only finished episode 1 😭) but from the clips.....they should've waited to release this. katseye has just started and you show 2/6 members of katseye + the other girls "ganging up" on one of their members (btw, i'm using ganging up loosely, not saying the girls were doing that). now you have people thinking that katseye bond is artificial and scripted. they should've waited like another year before we saw the documentary imo.
People need to calm down. If you watched Korean survival shows you’re no longer surprised by how bad the editing is. Whatever brought up in the whole series might not be what it actually was. The moment you glance at someone unintentionally, if it’s needed for the final story, they will edit it into something incredibly unbelievable, even if it’s bad for that one person. Not to defend anyone here. But you should know that they have just debuted and need to build a strong fanbase, both personal and for the whole group. Which also reflects in how the docu went. No matter how you actually are, once being in a Kpop group, you’ll be framed into one distinctive character. It could be how you are in real life, but it could be not.
And now all we see are, a shy beautiful Manon, mean girl vibe Lara and Sofia, introverted Megan, calm Youchae and Daniela who hasn’t been drag into any drama. The more each individual fanbase fight the others, the frequent their artist name will be discussed. And yes that’s all the company needs. So please, keep an open mind on this and keep on supporting all the girls. They have been through a long way to get this far, and none of them deserves the hate for those nonsense.
They actually also shaded Megan several times for agreeing with the girls and being best friends with Adela.
U know what they say all publicity is good publicity
I can't with the condescension. He made some valid points. However, he forgot to mention that Manon broke curfew a bunch of times and was allowed to stay at her aunt's because she was almost never in the house. In other words, she got preferential treatment-which made things worse. She also said she went to a school where it wasn't that big of a deal if she wanted to take a day off, so she didn't think it would be a big deal that she missed practice. Because yes, she was skipping practice even before she got covid.
i think you’re painting the situation in a negative light. the whole program was about cultural differences between the girls and in sweden the culture towards work and school is so completely different than the expectations of kpop training, manon clearly experienced a culture shock. she stepped up to the plate after she realized what was expected of her and clearly DID care because of that. the curfew situation is also iffy because manon stated she’d be out with family and that’s why missy said she should move in with her aunt then. there’s no doubt that created hostility in an already hostile situation. overall i think manon was prioritizing her health mentally and physically in the program and did not want to break herself and that’s where the disconnect comes from.
The kpop training system is literally military training. Like the exhaustion and soreness especially as a beginner...😭
Also, those girls were probably the reason she didn't want to stay around. As a fellow introvert, I understand her, though there might've been other reasons
I just don't like the narrative people are pushing that Manon lacked discipline. Hunny no, she lacked military level discipline, the type to keep going though you feel like you're going to die
Many normal people don't have that level of discipline hun
I'm sure her reasons are not as shallow as y'all make it seem, but actually relatable
@@green360z this, she stated multiple times that she was not a professional and even said she was insecure about the level she was at compared to the other girls. and she’s stated after the show now that the process taught her discipline and a level of dedication that she never had before. it’s so sad to see no one giving her grace because she literally went from never being in a dance or vocal class to having these expectations to take strenuous training and sickness/soreness she’d never felt before and power through 😭 that is a lot. and it’s nearly inhumane.
I think kpop stans will be the reason the ''media literacy'' discussion will never end. Anyway, great video. I've been in the girls' shoes before and the frustration of rehearsing so much(in my case not for a competition) and having someone not show up is not fun. But Manon was able to take her L's, work on her work ethic and improve which is great. The fact that the girls weren't made aware they were even competing until later is so shady, they only did it to create drama which would increase the show's popularity. It's nice to see that the girls could work most things out. The hate being sent to any of the girls is so unfortunate knowing it could've been prevented. The last point I'd like to add is that I haven't seen anyone talk about how Manon might have had imposter syndrome or very low self-esteem. To even get into the show she had to audition and to my knowledge unlike most of the girls she didn't have much experience, it's not shocking to me that she'd feel like she didn't deserve it or felt intimidated. That probably might've caused her to feel demotivated and not show up, which then made the girls frustrated about her lack of work ethic, made her feel isolated, and probably justified in her belief that she might not deserve to be there and the cycle continues.
My story(read if you want it doesn't have to do with the video): My friend wasn't showing up to rehearsals and the day of the show was getting closer. Everyone was annoyed, we couldn't reach her but most importantly we were all tired. We spent all day after school trying to perfect everything but she wasn't there. We later found out that she got hospitalized(she's fine now). We apologized, we thought she wasn't serious about any of this and even if we couldn't have known it was the right thing to do. She apologized for not letting us know or not telling her mom to contact us. We helped her catch up on all her classes and rehearsals she missed. The show went great, and everyone lived happily ever after.
Shoutout Gabe. The documentary was surprisingly transparent about how scummy the execs were.
I watched Dream Academy last year when it was airing live and voted mostly for Manon, Daniela and Nayoung once global voting began and felt that Ezrela would have been better than Lara if she was taller. All of this stuff was on the internet while the competition was airing. It came out that Manon was being iced out and names floated around about who the "mean girls" were. A lot of Samara fans were being terrible online and a lot of the things said about Manon by the global fandom were racist. I know it's difficult for people going through this type of process but "it factor, x factor, center mic energy, performance charisma, star quality, je nais que" or whatever you want to call "it," trumps "hard work" when all other things are created equal and needs to be recognized as that commodifiable intangible sometimes talent... maybe but definitely transfers to brand recognition and devotion.
manon only got in for being pretty nothing esle you guys just want her to be victim when she is not she was in the which she expected the girls were right too feel frustated aboourt the whole situation seh idnt have passion and dreams as other girls never work hard for she just got in beacoz she is pretty thats all i dont see any start quality in her she the most boring out of all i dont even knoiw why she was even selected when samara was seas better than her
@@garimasuhani7227your wrong because all those girls were pretty and besides dancing Manon can actually sing contrary to what some of you who hate/dislike her lol
ngl i dont like how this fandom is brushing off the way manon was singled out just bc the ppl doing so were their precious idol, im sure the girls are all good now but tryna ignore the micro aggressions and downplaying it is weird and gonna make ppl more mad 😅
Lexie was the stand out star for me. To be a teenage with so much clarity on right and wrong; and her self-worth is very respectable
Great video. i didn't think about what would be the reason why Manon was missing practice but this makes sense. The whole show confirmed why i don't like social media