I feel like the problem with this comparison is that there is barely a discussion to be had, Amber is just flat out better while Etie and Alcryst seem overal similar in viability
Really is a shame there isn't a high-grade 1-2 bow cause then that opens up alcryst to being able enemy phase as well on avoid tiles and or with vantage/ crit engraving
I think you’re misunderstanding the reason Etie and Alcryst are being compared, it’s not because they’re comparable units function wise if you factor reclassing. It’s arbitrarily based on how both of them start as bow classes, And therefore the community compares them. If we’re talking about the Mekkah video, I think the only reason he made that video comparing them is because people do compare them, not because they’re the only units from an optimal perspective that actually should be compared. Really, Etie and Alcryst should be compared to everyone around them, especially because of reclassing. But the reason they get compared is because at base they are similar. And neither unit is very good, obviously amber will be better than either of them.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming well yeah if you want to use her long term she’s outclassed by other units, but in an optimal context she’s at best a flunky, you just use her to fill the niche of being an early game bow user that can easily kill flyers, she has the availability of joining in chapter 2 and being the only bow unit until chapter 7, while she definitely isn’t a vital niche, she still is definitely very good at killing flyers, Alcryst is basically the same thing, except he’s around from chapter 7 to chapter 12, which is when you get Fogado, who is stronger and faster and magically adept enough to use the radiant bow, So even if Etie’s stats are worse, which they are except for her strength and res, she can actually do things in those chapters when Alcryst can’t, and if you still felt like using a flunky archer, or two, you could keep using etie after getting alcryst, and both will just delete flyers. The thing you have to consider is that if you’re trying to be the most effective you can be with your promotion items, you aren’t giving flunkies you’d bench master seals, and you’re not reclassing unpromoted units, so as a flunky both would likely stay in their base classes. None of this is to say that they’re the only units you should compare to each other. People mostly just do it because of the surface level similarities, that said it’s still a valid comparison to be made, just like Amber being compared to Alcryst is a valid comparison. Also, this isn’t quite related, and I’m really not an expert, but if you ask me, Warrior is better than Tireur D’élite It has 4 more strength, and merciless, which is at least on par with luna, and it’s a backup class. Which means it can use longbows to easily support allies, Merciless is reliable when luna is only liable to trigger once if you’re doubling, it’s a gamble if you’re not, and still a gamble even if you are doubling, And axe access is handy sometimes, also, warrior has better growths. And isn’t bow locked as a class. And Imo alcryst isn’t the best reclass unit next to lapis or amber.
The other reason they get talked about is because we are fixing what were largely bad or incorrect takes from launch. Alycryst was overvalued and Etie was undervalued to the point that people were putting many as two tiers in between them which simply put was absurd when you actually start crunching numbers. Edit: Also Amber has been having a glow up lately, dude has come a long way from being a slightly better Alfred which I can go on a whole essay the issues with that comparison.
The thing is though those two more then most characters don’t really care for reclassing. The first thing to consider is a lot of the cast really benefit massively from reclassing. Most the cast is in classes that are genuinely bottom half of the classes they could be in for their dominant offense. The characters in might fixing classes are the ones that need speed fixing and vice versa. Kagetsu wants the strength from wyvern he’s in swordmaster literally only worse then magic classes for him for example. And then there’s Anna clanne who start out in a class using the wrong stat. You are gonna want like 15 or so second seals a lot of then time between reclassing and level resetting combat carries and saving a seal here and there can be a massive difference. While alcryst definitely could potentially benefit from warrior boosting his strength unlike most the lords his dex is actually high enough to make the class skill relevant and you can use lunar brace vs armors. It’s just not a big enough impact tobe worth the seal. Likewise etie REALLY benifits from being in the 1% of engage units who is actually in a class line that offers an option to fix the stat they need help with in the form of bow knight. Etie has strength but needs speed dex and either bulk fixing or the ability to just not get countered. The +3 speed on promotion combined with the new speed growth puts her at the same speed as alcryst -1 ( barring build) which realistically means they double the same targets. Bow knight as you’d expect from a class that promotes from archer is also good for dexterity which helps with hit rate issues she can have. And not only does the long bow allow her to not get countered ( as well as the additional option to break enemy units from the new melee proficiency ) but bow knight even raises her res bulk to bad but not atrocious to actually relevant. Bow knight’s stats fix Etie’s problems perfectly. And giving up long bow isn’t something etie wants to do so she really wants bow access. Putting her in warrior as opposed to bow knight means you need to spend more resources on skills to fix the issues you could of had fixed by just getting her the same proficiency you’d need for warrior and just using a master seal. This also means Etie’s skill slots in bow knight are also much more flexible as well as her engraves. You’d need some form of speed skill and hit engrave as a warrior. You are just investing a second seal to add new problems to invest to fix. It’s like smashing a lightbulb so you can go to the store that sells lightbulbs to buy one to change the lightbulb you just smashed. Their whole point is you are using them to save a second seal similar to fogado ( but he’s way better ) basically requiring no effort to get online
I really like that you outline that the Alcryst vs Etie discussion is a complete red herring. In a game where every single units can be reclassed, comparing two units purely based on their starting class is a huge waste of time. I think it's way more interesting to compare units based on the potential roles that they can fill instead, like you've done in this video.
It’s a little less simple than that because reclassing costs a resource you don’t have limitlessly until about halfway in the game, it is relevant for early game units what their starting class is.
@@samkeiser9776 Second Seals are more plentiful than Master Seals, so I don't think the second seal is the real bottleneck for characters making their builds.
@@brandon3059 yeah, but reclassing into a different base class kind of sucks, the notable thing is that it resets the character’s level, but it doesn’t reset their internal level, so for example, if you reclassed a lvl 10 unit into a different base class, they’d gain exp like a level 10 unit but would need 9 more levels to actually promote, so reclassing a unit into a different base class is wasteful and usually stunts their growth, if you really want to reclass an early game unit, it is best to master seal then second seal them.
@@samkeiser9776 Yes, we agree. It's always best to master seal then second seal, therefore, having limited Second Seals doesn't matter at all because Master Seals are more limited than Second Seals. So reclassing is not really a limited thing.
This is funny, because I actually ran both Amber and Etie as bow knights for a bit in my first maddening run (despite warrior spam being more effective). They both did excellent towards the beginning of the solm arc, especially chapter 14, but both started to fall off in terms of damage by chapter 17. I did notice that Amber was always a little bit ahead of her though, so I put him in halberdier for a Sigurd brave lance build which worked a lot better. They both needed Lyn to one round, they both had solid strength, they both were squishy. But Amber’s passive just makes him such the obvious pick. I’m glad you’re making this the conversation, I’ve always thought of them as very similar units despite Amber not starting on bows. Same with Panette, who’s basically better than both of them statistically. Just high strength units with middling speed that want warrior to fix that without neutering their attack. Alcryst feels more like the thieves you get tbh
Yunaka gets +25 Crit on an AVO tile as a Sniper. As a dodge tank, she will dive into a tree behind enemy lines and be invisible. If Louis can hold a choke point, Yunaka can spank it.
Ive never really understood any argument for Etie, even when you look at her supposed best stat -strength, it fails in comparison to others. I like her, and her design, but like, every time Ive used her, she was undoubtedly the worst unit on my team, and felt like a chore to make work. Unfortunately thats just how it was.
Idk. I feel like she's one of the best Mage Cannoneers but tbh having used the class in a few runs now I'm not convinced it's worth the investment of running. At this point I'm not gonna bother unless I really really want to run Etie (or Bunet, MC is his best class lmao)
@@IcedCoffeeGaming I've encountered many Etie stan and it just bemused me. She obviously a middling unit in term of power and as character I don't see much of development from her support convos. Everything is just about working out, protein, etc. is just one dimensional.
I commented this in the recent Mekkah video on the topic, but I think dedicated Archers arent worth it by the late game and if youre going for best units youll have Panette on warrior (or Amber I guess in this case)
Well yeah, they said as much in Mekkah’s video, Etie and Alcryst are both at best flunkies if you’re playing optimally, but Etie is a flunky for the same amount of time, and turns out better than alcryst would if you actually decide to use her long term. you also don’t have to bench Etie for alcryst and both can shoot down fliers with a steel bow which means Etie can still be a flunky while alrcyst is around. Then when you get better units for their niches, you’d just replace them, if their niches are even worth having. I’d argue warrior is definitely a good class at least Though in the flunky context neither etie or Alcryst would promote. But Etie is around longer and therefore is better.
@@samkeiser9776 in the case of Etie vs Alcryst as a flunkie just use Etie. The avoid of the enemies aren't super high yet and her strength is just better with a better growth so if you only are gonna use 1 Archer just use Etie with a steel bow. Besides it'll be a better investment in the end if you use her permanently
i like the option that can hit. You only get 10 redos every map, and having to use it so she can hit stuff is not worth it. Amber with his personal skill is pretty great, and easy to activate, so he wins hard against Etie in my opinion.
i dont get the taking XP away from hard carries like for all the praise Cloe gets there are plenty of potential late game flyiers that don't need expensive skill's or forges to one round ennemies
Chloe can easily destroy the entire early-midgame by existing if you use her remotely optimally, you don't get this result on Etie on base game. in DLC version of the game anyone can break it
I still stand by my Wind God Warrior Etie build video! Disregard flat damage Etie. Acquire massive chain attack range with little investment Etie. Even cheaper to build than dual assist heroes and lets a stronger unit like Amber use more resources to be even stronger. The added range lets her ignore her bad bulk, you dont have to upgrade weapons since shes mostly here for chain attacks anyways so she actually likes a silver bow for slightly more damage and shes just great for maxing the potential of your other units!
Right. There are much better units. Units that I want to spend a lotta resources on. Etie with wind god as a warrior is super cheap and uses her high strength to apply some chip damage and, more importantly, provide massive chain attack range. High utility, low cost
Deployment is a resource tho. I'm not sold on using a slot for someone running around doing chain dmg, when I can deploy a more impactful unit or more utility. It just sounds like any Lucina user and you get that for free out of passives. If STR would factor in chain attacks and she could get XP out of it, then maybe. But the way you sell it it just sounds like a liability long term
Since Etie and Amber are so similar it goes to show she’s not a bad investment. Logically, the only decision to be made here is: Do I want a unit I can train and use to shoot Flyers from the very beginning all the way to the end game? Or do I want to wait for another unit that will either do the same thing that Etie is already doing, when Amber quite literally has other build options (his higher build quite literally means that he’s suited for weapons that are not bows.) I was able to power level Etie to level 10 before getting Amber without over investing in her with Marth’s Mercurius or anything like that. There are actually very few units before ch 10 that you actually want to bring to the endgame, and coincidentally you get 6 emblem rings before ch 10. The trick with Engage is to just have 6 units you are focusing in on before ch 10, and to recruit 6 more post ch 11 to gradually fill out your party. Out of all the early game candidates, in terms of a clear path of progression, Etie is the least path of resistance to getting your first Warrior. Any talk of “investing in this one early unit takes away from other potential hard carries” is really just a logical fallacy when you can make most units easily broken in this game with the right investment.
Every single time someone tries to argue that a unit isn’t that good (especially compared to another “statistically better unit), it becomes incredibly evident they haven’t actually tried to make them good throughout the game.
No I actually have run Etie fully and she falls off without special treatment on base game maddening. As you enter Midgame she will struggle to hit and even wasn't able to 1 round flying units consistently.
Too be fair like 80% of the roster need special treatment to be good. Even Chloe needs resources specifically allocated to do really snowball as without investments like a early energy drop her performance drops a lot. Now Etie does get less out of investment due to being bow lock for the early game then even if you get her out that her base bulk even as a bow knight or warrior is bad enough that she pretty much needs a Seraph robe or only attack lance users if she wants to melee But yeah Etie is still fairly easy to make good by low tier fire emblem standards
I dont get why some people think alcryst is bad, his luna is not a matter of “will it trigger ?” cuz it will 😂 his insane dex makes him roll for both luna and crit for that insane high dopamine rush. Ive always used him to kill tougher enemies when my hyper carries like panette, anna and chloe couldn’t one round the enemy.
Archers not being able to enemy phase is their main problem. He’s def one of the better archers in the game but why use an archer when u can use literally anything else that hits harder AND can enemy phase
@@goroadachi9489 if your archer is getting attacked something has already gone wrong. That would be like saying Seadall was D tier for his low combat and survivability
@@sam7559 If your archer can’t tank at least one hit then that limits severely the positions you can put yourself into and what you can attack, and gives you little margin of error. If Etie misses then that’s probably a reset. Also Seadall actually has some survivability options if you forge his shielding art or give him a health passive because unlike Etie, he has Speed
Im gonna miss this game, but when TOK comes out this game will be put on hold for a long time. But the Mock battle system in the Trails is so much fun. Ive been leveling up all my units on Normal so Skirmishes pop up alot more for the soul purpose of having the best team battles ever. SMs are hard to beat when theyre maxed out, but Im having a blast. You should try it some time.
You forgot Etie’s hidden stats in the code. She has Cute bow, and Abs for days. Which give her extra 50% growth rates to likability. That’s a lot of stats over the course of the game
In my first playthrough i used Amber with Emblem Lyn, so despite being a Paladin it was as if he was a Bow knight using mulagir. It was funny and the speedboost helped him one round a lot of things with his incredible strength stat.
I have run them both but personally I like Alcryst more for that dopamine boost everytime Luna procs (which is almost always with his high dex) and overall usability outside shooting birds (with Luna ofc). While Etie, she has dex problem outside of being squishy and slow. You'll have problem with hitting fliers later on (archer that miss hitting fliers is no use) because of her low dex. Also Etie personal skill is objectively worst than Alcryst. Now comparison with Amber is eye opining cause Etie and Amber is so similar but he's just better.
I've mentioned this in streams before that Etie was robbed by Amber. People said it was really weird for me to compare Amber to Etie, because people were stuck on the idea of turning into a halberdier. Sure, he doesn't have aptitudes matching warrior. but Etie's bow aptitude only earns her Silver bow access.
Married Alcryst in my second playthrough is impossible for me to not use him because i love him so much, not saying etie is bad but by chapter 9 is her or alcryst and my choice will always be alcryst. Doing an only lord run to see how good Fogado can be.
The only thing I would take issue with in your assessment of Etie is that she cannot get to level 10 when Amber arrives without feeding her extra kills. At the end of Chapter 8, my Etie was level 11 just through her normal work of killing fliers ... just doing her job, and sometimes opportunistic chip damage on other enemies when she ran out of fliers to kill. And that is with splitting flyer kills with Alcryst. Other than that, your analysis is irrefutable. The only other dimension I would suggest you examine is that sure, Amber is a better bow-using Warrior than Etie, but what is the opportunity cost for making Amber a Warrior instead of a Hero, or a Berserker, or a Wyvern Knight, or a Paladin?
@@IcedCoffeeGaming With DLC, so that means she did get XP from the Tiki divine paralogue. That is probably the source of the discrepancy between your Etie and mine. Mine has killed MANY wyverns with a Longbow. Yours likely has not.
A divine paralogue on average gives units +2-5 level ups, on base game Etie struggles to hit lv 7-8 by the time you get Amber even with some intentional feeding
@@IcedCoffeeGaming That tracks. Everyone who survived Tiki got about 2 levels, I think Chloe and Jean got 3. Etie may need to go to the back benches soon regardless. Even at 11 with DLC, Amber is still the better Warrior. And with Citrinne now coming online with her 3 range poke, and a whole mess of armor enemies on the Chapter 9 map, her knocking out fliers with the ballastia in her last battle may indeed have been her last battle.
Warrior has the best stats in the game, so aside from amber eties niche is disrupted by fogado, as while as Warrior!Merrin, with Warrior! Pannete and even Warrior! Kagestu being strong options. She might last until fogado joins, but at that point she’s outclassed.
I just like Etie because I get a kick out bringing out the best of normally considered bad characters which is especially rewarding in engage because the worst characters in the game are still really strong.
I feel like Etie is Alfred/Vander tier. Kills a couple fliers and that’s about it. The other 2 can tank a few hits and that’s about it. I cant stand how slow and frail she is
Amber's my favorite character, even with some shortcomings I've seen in my Maddening run. But Etie has been carrying so well, I might just run them both next time. Can you tell me what to expect for iron / steel / silver ingot resources, non DLC? 7:30 for reference.
I like to use Alcryst with Corrin. With the 60 avoid he gets from fog and 15 hp from Corrin he can tank reasonably well, and he also does decent retaliatory chip from melee range even with the minibow thanks to luna. You could also engage and use Corrin's weapons for that but I usually save his engage for the important task of locking down bosses with a longbow. And of course he shoots down fliers, as all archers do. Anyways, I haven't been using him solely as a player phase unit.
Etie vs Alcryst is still important as while Amber is objectively better than both of them it shows how worthy Etie is of being used at all. If Alcryst didn't exist there would be no one else to snipe flyers but now that he exists he takes up her role before chapter 9 when you get leif's bow proficiency and second seals. It also shows that since Alcryst is slightly better than her giving her precious exp is pointless. Especially when Alcryst can still be powerful in his special class with a strong brave bow+Eirika build AND can become a warrior to rival Etie. That said its important people know that weapon types are no longer unique to units. You gotta choose the units that works best with your build.
Hmm, this gives me ideas for my new run. I loved Etie as a warrior with Lyn, so maybe that's what I should do with amber! Mulagir doesn't care about weapon rank. As long as I don't get him killed this run lol
Not really, against low defense enemy a equal level warrior Etie and Alycryst in his personal needs luna just to equal Etie's damage. Dex is however good which is Alycryst claim to fame but order for Alycryst to out damage Etie per hit he either needs to trigger luna on high defense enenies or get a crit Alycryst main advantage over Etie is he can run a crit/luna build and his slightly better survivability makes it possible to hit wrath thresholds if you want to go with that. This plus better hit without supports which is important due to how fast fliers get late game
Very good video as usual. One minor thing though: Isn't any discussion of Supports on Amber pointless since in order to make use of the passive stats from the Support you'd be turning off Amber's personal skill?
I see it as a sort of alternative, especially early on for when you have low support ranks. You can either stand alone to get hit rate or stand near certain characters to get hit rate.
Imagine thinking a unit’s self worth is directly tied to their base stats and growth rates, things they were born with, did not choose, and cannot change! Fuckin canceled 😂
I feel like all of the points about weight/build comparisons here don't really matter because Etie and Amber are both slow enough that you'll have go out of your way (Lyn, Speedtaker, etc) to make them fast enough to double anyway.
doesnt etie have access to better bows as a warrior because of her proficiency in bow? the main issue is that the funds are more costly to make etie outperform amber with b rank bows
@@priestessii eh not really 100% true. Steel bows cost less to forge per level but need to be forge to +3 to surpass a base sliver bow mt and equal hit This costs 180 iron 6 steel 1 sliver 1800G This gets immediately surpassed by a +1 sliver bow which takes 50 iron, 5 steel 1 sliver 1000G In order for a steel bow to surpass a +1 sliver bow you need to get it to +4 just to equal hit which costs 260, 10, 2, 2800 In terms of added mt and hit Sliver bow+1 is a significantly less costly then steel. The main advantages of steel are crit and wt which don't matter for warriors because if you are going crit bow user you are probably running sniper or your are using Pannette as a warrior with ike and likely using a killer bow as a side to a killer axe and wt is not a big Factor since Warriors are usually not planning on doubling. Hence sliver bows do have value because every one sliver you can use is one less steel that needs forging
@@priestessii Killer bow has a lot less mt then both steel and sliver and hit meaning unless you are going for a crit build the damage loss isn't worth it. You need to go all in on crit if you want it to be viable so realistically only a couple characters going to be able to use a good crit builds in general let alone ones using killer bows due to engraving limitations. So once again sliver bows are extremely resource friendly. Killer bows also need more forging to be useful since a base of only 7 mt is really bad while Sliver is good to go at base or at +1. Radiant bow is the best bow for fliers but sucks for everything else unless you are using a magic unit as most enemies have enough res to tank it even from more magically focused units since bow classes don't really have any magic base or growths especially the warrior class. In a vacuum Sliver bow access is whatever but it's value goes up the more bow users you use which warrior is a stupid good class so there is reasons to use more then one and there are enough fliers in the game to justify a decent amount of bow users.. Edit: Now this doesn't make Etie a better warrior then Amber but you can just use both since Warrior is one of the two best back up classes in the game and gives her something over Amber even if it is minor.
I was so sad when I started picking up the actually good units and realized that Etie is actually trash tier. She has such a fun personality and good character design. But I play to win so she has been off the rotation as soon as practical with minimal investment before I recruit a replacement.
The devs kinda cruel on her. Like she works out plenty but can't lift her weapon. I remember that she can't use steel bow until promoted because of her starting build and build growth are just bad. Even when promoted and recleassed to warrior, she can't use steel axe until levelling up couple of times.
I think saying, "don't bother with either because both are bad" is just kinda missing the point and it's an effort at thought-terminating. Obviously you're not gonna use either if you're playing "optimally", but if you're trying to use either of them they'll work just fine. Haven't done it myself, it's pretty easy to use Etie once she's out of Archer. In any case, you probably aren't gonna use Amber either because Panette's better than him!
Panette might actually not be better than him, she has 25 STR on Berserker Amber has 21 STR on Warrior (Starting), Panette switching to warrior loses 1STR, Amber can easily level up a few times by the time you get Panette, he may just be a 2nd panette but without the CRIT passive. So starting in CH 9 and onward Amber on warrior has 21 STR on warrior vs Panettes 24 STR on Warrior (-1 from Zerker switch). Amber on Warrior has 65% STR Growth and would need to level up 5 times between CH 9 - 13 to be at Panettes STR AKA very easily done/achievable.
I used to play sacred stones a bunch. I would always make neime into a beast because you get free orions bolts. After enough 20/1 she genuinely is a beast. Despite this, after years, I just stopped using her.
What i tell people is if im playing in maddening why the ever living hell would i invest in etie a slow ass unit when alcryst is around with much better speed ok strength a kinda busted class ability and low investment costs. Im all about waifu emblem that's the reason Goldmary is my favorite engage character but facts are facts and Etie as much as i like her is often a liability in maddening. And then like you said theres amber my problem with amber tho is that he is just as much a liability as Etie and in all honesty after trying sniper yunaka with sneak attack i cant go back to anyone else
Iron/Steel/Silver Bow is bad, just use longbow and killer bow with axes as other weapons Strongest bow is Radiant Bow, but only for those with magic like Anna and Fogado which makes them the best archers in the game, one shot fliers and one round armour units.
So I tried Etie at sniper, but ended up using lapis and Rosado in those roles. Lapis with build +3 does work and Rosodao was a magic bow quality time thot.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming yes, I did on my first run, she was so crazy on damage (almost anyone that uses lyn will be a good unit) She definitely made my chapters a lot easier, specially since I only had two bow users (warrior Boucheron) I usually play with my husband and we use different characters, this run I'm using Fogado and he's using Alcryst as main bow users
Etie, Amber, and Panette will all do the same thing as a Warrior in your playthrough. Post game with capped stats Etie is better because of her max strength cap is higher.
I see people mention caps often but in all of my maddening runs including the 5 man DLC run where I had starsphere I have yet to hit caps on any units.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming Post game has infinite exp, the only hard cap are the stat caps. Caps are based on class and character. Also, Wyvern knight has a really high cap for offensive and defensive stats, that is why the class is just overpowered because it is too strong at both. My anna gets so many kills she always stat caps on a few stats for end game. In terms of a normal run to the credits, you won't hit strength caps, though enchanter STR and MAG caps are pretty low, speed cap is way higher than martial master speed cap. Playing until end credits completion, Amber, Etie, and Panette on warrior will all do the same thing with no difference between each other - Warrior and Lyn ring and they will hard carry all the way to the end. They are all S tier, but you can only run 1 per playthrough. Others like Louis can do it too, but he is better off as a General with his spear and silver greatlance. Give him Tiki or Sigurd when you get Sigurd back, Tiki the whole time if you using DLC rings.
@@MasterStacona If you level up units to the max stat caps post game, there's no uniqueness among them anymore (besides their personal skill) as everyone will have the same max stat in the respective classes. Sure there're unique + or - stat for each character but the difference is almost negligible tbh. That's why we're so pressed on character growths because in game you can only level up so much that character growth rates will play a role in determining which character is best on certain class and role.
@@yohanes2034 nope, every character has a different max stat, max stat is a combination of the class and character. Some characters will have slightly more speed, some slightly more magic, some slightly more def, some slightly more str, etc. depending on the character. Classes just have the greatest influence of stat caps.
@@MasterStacona if they reclass to same class the max stat difference based on which character you use is just +- 2 or 3. Like that difference won't break the game. Hence why maxing stats post game really not interest me that much
I really wish Yunaka or Zelkov have a special class with knives and bows that are still considered covert. It would probably invalidate warrior completely when it comes with to bow access
This. I have never had such a visceral reaction to needing to bench someone after an introduction until Amber showed up. Usually my reaction is "Oh, shiny. How am I going to fit this into these deployment slots? :/", but he shot right out instantly. His Killer Lance is like a dowry I'm given to apologize for having to hear him for a chapter.
Developers did not correlate her lore with her stats. Etie does running and strength training like a maniac then the rest of the cast but somehow has avg str(40) and spd(35). But i still run her and Goat vander.
40% is still above average being only 5% less then Pannete, but yeah should be 45% or more for more. The running Etie is less about speed then endurance so really she should just take hits better rather then be super fast.
The devs went sadistic with her. In one support convos she used weighted teacups for weight training but dear lord how she can't handle steel bow because her starting build is so low and just 5% build growth. The lore does not match up with reality
Really love your analyses tbh. It seemed pretty obvious to me that etié was better than alcryst, but didn't even consider amber who is kinda just passively slightly better than etié. Def gonna run warrior amber next run through.
In an optimal run Etie and Alcryst aren't amazing but honestly if you just wanna kill fliers then Etie is just better then Alcryst because she has better strength if we just compare those two. She has higher strength and growth especially if you don't plan to use a master seal on them. So before the solm chapters fliers aren't super fast so their avoid isn't as super jacked meaning the hit rate issues is also lessened. Using the steel bow on her to one shot fliers is good enough but you might as well bring Alcryst since one archer is not gonna be enough to handle all the fliers in the castle map. Then yoy can just use Fogado from then on since as a warrior he keeps his massive speed growth and a decent strength growth or just use the radiant bow in his personal class. Now if you did invest in Etie for the later chapters the hit issue is small and you also have Leif, Lyn, and Lucina and more emblems to fix the hit rates. Compared to everyone else she falls behind in a lot of areas except strength with only Amber and Panette beating her out. So using her isn't a bad idea if you can slot her in and make her a combat unit. Or a combat filler unit. Most of the time a lot of other units can't one hit or one round things but Etie can with her really high strength and Lyn. Or a forged lucky critical. Now Amber and Etie yeah Etie is just strictly worse then he is in warrior. This is generally just a problem with the early game units. Céline, Louis, Alfred, Boucheron. They are just worse then Citrinne, or Jade, or Panette and Bunet.... Actually nvm Bunet is trash. I love him though. The early game units aren't bad when trained its just that the future units are so fucking busted. Ivy, Kagetsu, Zelkov, Fogado, Pandreo, Panette, and Merrin just outshine everyone because they just do. Past solm the characters..... not so much.... Like I love Rosado but 16 base strength....no... Saphir and Lindon are also hard to fit but aren't bad. Etie is a good investment when compared to some of them since in the long term she has so much strength and pairs so well with Lyn that I feel its good enough to outshine them. Unless you use Amber In terms of Amber vs Etie they're basically the same unit if you put them in warrior except etie has a better personality! That is a fact. Alpaca's are fucking lame. Props for that. The speed difference is so minimal that it really doesn't matter. Just put lyn on them because they are never going to double ever unless they have a brave axe. And they're both really slow like Amber can never ever be put in the same general direction as a mage or else he just fucking dies because he can't outspeed a mage. They are never gonna tank more then 1 or 2 hits because a difference between 2 defence and 3 res is not gonna save them. Whichever one you want to use is based off personal preference. But Amber will do more damage and he has higher build and defense so props to Amber for being statistically better. Now for SP Etie has a starting SP of 300 so in 6 levels thats 600 sp or 900 at level 10 if you gave her an engage ring. So technically she has a higher SP potential then Amber but it does use resources which are suuuuuuuper valuable I guess? With bond rings she only has 600 at level 10 so if you don't want to give her an emblem ring she has less SP. If you have the DLC though then SP problems begone. I mean Fire emblem has so many enemies you don't have to worry about giving them exp if you are making them a permanent part of the team. Amber takes less investment to perform the same. Alcryst takes less investment to perform worse. So if you invested into Eite. Vs Alcryst its a good investment, vs Amber its a bad investment. Though the difference between the three of them is minimal. I used Etie in alot of my runs, I used Amber in a few others. Etie and Amber again are basically the same unit which I don't think is a bad thing. I'd say being the third best highest stength unit is just really good. She can snipe dangerous enemies you don't wanna deal with and you have a second Warrior Amber to do the same thing. They never need to worry about getting into combat with the longbow or just Bows in general so their low bulk matters a bit less. But if you're not using either of them then yeah you get Panette who can do that
"In terms of Amber vs Etie they're basically the same unit if you put them in warrior except etie has a better personality" I feel like you missed the part where he has a statistical edge over her and requires no investment
@@IcedCoffeeGaming @Iced Coffee Gaming what do you mean? I mentioned it later on in my comment by saying amber does more damage and has a little more build and defense. I'm saying that is a small statistcal advantage. Etie makes up the difference with the silver bow since their strength difference is only 2 points for 90% of the game. The silver bow has 3 extra mt. Or 9 points against fliers. Now for forging it is true that a maxed forged steel bow is cheaper and with 16mt but then the difference for a +3 forged silver is 17mt. 1 point difference or 3 for effective damage. The 5% extra str growth matters only at the very end of ths game. Other then that they're basically the same except Amber has 2 points in strength, defense, build and requires a little less favortism. Etie is still very good all things considered. Probably the best Archer in terms of the other archer characters. And she only loses to Amber and Panette in terms of strength by like 2 points. Which is made up for by the slightly higher mt of the silver bow. Now for axes yeah she can't make up that difference but the Noatun is a really good light axe for her to use
I wish I could understand why people run warriors or bows lol. Tomes do what bows do but better imo. And when it comes to axes for warrior I’d rather have a paladin or flyer. I have only ran warriors a couple times in my early play throughs and they felt so so to me.
Etie and Panette on Warrior were absolutely clutch for me on my first run. Etie focused on Bows and Panette critting with axes. But but kept a Longbow handy for chain attack cheese chip damage. Panette was also fantastic to throw solo on a choke point and murder everything coming at her. The only mage I found that can do that is Ivy when engaged with Soren. I just get more utility out of Warriors since I horde my staves too much.
I think warrior amber is the real question here. I think he's better off using his lance proficiency for things like wyvern and Great Knight. In terms of pure flying deletion, I think Radiant Bow Fogado is just better than Warrior Amber, let alone Alcryst and Etie. Both Alcryst and Etie do fine enough for their join times, which if you ask me is more valuable than 2nd sealing Amber into a not as good class for him like warrior if you ask me. For reference, I did a little spreadsheet on Amber, Etie, Fogado, and Alcryst. I assumed they'd each reached level 13 promoted and promoted instantly. Etie and Amber were put into Warrior, Alcryst into T'ieur d' Elite, and Fogado Cupido. I used one of the chapter 18 wyverns as a reference for damage. With a +5 steel bow, neither Etie nor Amber could one shot said wyvern. Etie needs +5 damage, and Amber needs +2, so a tonic will let him one shot, while etie would need either lunar brace and a tonic or a dual strike. Alcryst merely does above average chip damage without luna, but he does kill if he has a luna proc and a tonic. There's only a 28% chance-ish of that happening, although that could hypothetically jump up as high as 40% if you have a dex tonic, Dex boost emblem, and inherit Dex+ skills. Fogado would outright oneshot with a Radiant Bow +3 and is only a few points of speed away from doubling, making him easily have the highest potential listed damage but ultimately being kind of overkill at the end of the day. I haven't mentioned the Silver bow differences as most of the time the differences are negligible. The only notable threshold a silver bow +3 gets is that it lets alcryst one shot them with a luna proc without any boosts to direct damage output. The thing is, if you ask me the whole argument of Amber > Etie/Alcryst is pointless cause Amber has better things to do. Paladin, Wyvern, and Great Knight I think are far better options for him. It lets him use his Lance proficiency for access to better greatlances for insane damage output, much more than he would on average with bows, and you're using his lance proficiency. While yes, he can use warrior's greataxes, movement from all the other said classes is more valuable I would imagine. I think Great Knight is his best move personally, or you could go for goofy Wolf Knight shenanigans. Even then, assuming you're playing fixed mode Amber vs Etie in warrior is only a minor difference in damage output. Etie is only 2 points away from Amber in str in most cases, and if they're getting attacked on enemy phase and dying, that's more likely the fault of the player not their defenses. Also Etie's longterm Res lead is notable if you ask me, her 5 extra points at the levels I mentioned could let her chip certain mages and live if she doesn't outright oneshot. Plus lategame thoron mages are abundant and as her res scales more and more it could matter more and more for baiting mages with longbows or something. And if you want an archer to be enemy bait on the physical side, Alcryst is far better than either of them defensively, largely due to his speed lead letting him avoid being doubled, and potential covert avoid bonuses. Tl;DR: Amber has better things to do than warrior, Imo. Etie and alcryst join and perform servicably, and both end up pretty ok longterm, Etie being better for consistent damage and Alcryst doing some silly luna stuff. Fogado has the most potential flier deletion.
Both are not good just for the fact that they can't use Radiant Bow, the best Bow in the game by far. Fogado as Cupido is absolutely clear because he can kill high DEF enemies and end game flyers in one shot. I even turned Anna into a Bow Knight after spending time as Sage leveling her Magic and with the 24 Magic Cap she was still able to one shot flyers
This is not relevant to a playthough but I have maxed Etie and alcryst, gave them both best skills , tried etie on bow night archer and warrior class and alrcyst still outclassed her with no emblem. Again not relevant to a playthrough, but thought let u know.
This is all you need to do for Etie: Sigurd Ring early game, inherit Canter before chapter 10 Lyn Ring on her all game and reclass to Warrior That is it, nothing more is needed outside of giving engraves and forging weapons, but that is baseline for a carry. Everyone doubles with Lyn ring, which means whoever has the highest strength is best for Lyn ring, and Alcryst is just bad and the only reason to have him is for Luna procs and even then you are relying on RNG to do what Etie can do all of the time. His strength is too low to make a good warrior, you better off with Boucheron as warrior and give him a Chrom ring.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming I forgot Sigurd and Lyn are DLC rings, my bad, Warrior that is a DLC class too how could i forget I didn't even use axe power either, i did inherit momentum though with the canter, but there are much better passives to inherit than momentum if you one round the entire game as Etie then it does not matter if someone is better because you are still one rounding. Etie also has a high max strength cap so she is better in post game.
@@MasterStacona One, there are far better options for Sigurd, second, there are far better options for Lyn. If high strength is useful for Lyn, there are plenty of units with more strength than her, that don’t have the caveat of having terrible bulk, and bad dex, and build. Also why the hell would you not give Sigurd to Chloe who is objectively better than Etie in every way
@@IcedCoffeeGaming For Boucheron, you can stick anything on him, he is really good as an axe Griffin Knight and you could give him axe power with it which I never done, but it obviously would be really good and still popped off without it. His ability to use the best axe without speed penalties or barely any and double on them is a huge advantage, can make use of tomahawk, well axe, and brave axe because of his passive - his passive works with crits multiplier too. There is no ring he needs, just don't give him Lyn, he is already super fast naturally. Chrom is just a stand out ring that was made for Boucheron. Any ring that is more damage orientated is good. Warrior is also good for him and Wyvern Knight of course be good too, but Wyvern Knight is just overtuned so its good for any non-magic character.
@@goroadachi9489 Sigurd is only a damage ring early game on slow attackers for that one hit to hit harder. Chloe is a very low strength and high speed user so she is not good with Sigurd, and Chloe is just not good unless you invest into her, Etie requires zero investment to be good. Sigurd later on is an utility ring ideal for Generals to give them a movement passively and a ton of movement while engaged, and the ultimate skill is great with a silver greatlance / greataxe. Durability is only an argument for generals because they are meant to tank hits and low durability characters will suck at that. Etie was able to take some hits just fine as a Warrior on Maddening as well.
Tbh both Alcryst and Etie are bad, to the point that Warrior Boucheron outclass them as well Boucheron has less str than Etie, but had high dex, high speed, has more bulk, more build, can tank with Ike, can one round non-fliers with a crit build... He's also the best earlygame Marth user so he can level up easier with Mercurius Yeah when you're outclassed by Bouchron it's pretty bad lmao
Mekkah's video is one of many sources of inspiration for making this video, others have made videos on these two and tons of comments/my own channel has had months worth of Etie comments when I made the Etie guide. Am I not allowed to cover videos on topics other people cover? I don't specifically call out Mekkah or any other video/YTer in the video.
I loved this timing personally, the topic was on my mind because of Mekkah's and I love your take. Doesn't seem like a callout at all and debating these two units has been a huge discussion since release
@@IcedCoffeeGaming eh its not that youre not allowed its just unfortunate timing, but also the title of the video is basically the exact same either way its just my feedback - i watch a decent amount of your content, not flaming at all.
@@philahn9846 Maybe you don't realize it but saying 'unfortunate timing' when the timing is on purpose and 'a bad look' comes across annoyingly passive-aggressive. If you're going to accuse someone, be direct about it.
This video completely misses the point. I feel like this is a discussion for the absolute peak of Fire Emblem Engage players, and even more so for the casual players. It really doesn't serve much purpose for someone like Iced-Coffee-Gaming or anyone else in between to argue over which archers suck less, because you hate archers so much you just immediately change the subject. The reason you compare Etie and Alcryst is because they both come as Covert Archers. Their classes are similar, you throw Fogado into the mix and he gets an instant loss for being a shittier class type. When you start class changing everything to Warrior though you lose the whole point. Why use Amber or Etie when you can use a far better Warrior? There are many better at being a Warrior than these two. Make Yunaka a Warrior and suddenly Etie's not even allowed in the discussion. Which actually brings me to another point. Aspiring Hero is garbage. Hit +20 is almost never worth -10 Avoid. I can understand accepting the nerf when it's for +6-10 damage, but for 20 fcking hit? Amber would be better without a character skill, he's an inconvenience because he needs a baby sitter or he starts getting spanked. Anyways moving on. When you compare Etie and Alcryst in their base classes, with promotions to logical promotions that stay the same. Sniper/Tierre Du Elite, it suddenly becomes, which is better: Luna, or the potential for slightly better stats if you level Etie from the start. In either case you should be considering this as your Lyn user (As it is Lyn who enables Archers to enemy phase and Covert is the best class type for her.) Now you don't use that sort of build, so this debate is kind of pointless for you, but the best players are going to recognize, and more importantly, most casuals don't hate archers and will in fact be picking 1 up, and probably enjoying some sick use of Brave and Killer bows. Ultimately Alcryst is better, but they should still pick Etie up instead because her character is more interesting and better looking and Luna doesn't make that much of a difference, since both actually suck vs high defense targets like General. At the end of the discussion, 2 things are clear. Warriors don't fucking matter and Amber can go to hell, utilizing his suicide passive to speed run his way there.
LTC - great weapon ranks (warp, bolganone), 1-2 range flight magic, great magic, every weakness can be patched up and has great bases outside said weakness. She is the best LTC unit. LTC with DLC - you get a lot of broken stuff such as damage boosting things. Turns out physical Chloe ends up being the best unit in this context because of a couple factors. And in other contexts that I prefer to play in, Chloe is the best unit too : D magic go brrr
Alcryst always sucks, Etie is just always consistent with making kills without the need for RNG, and you can make Etie a warrior the best archer class in the game and she looks goooood in that Warrior outfit so she has the drip going on, Alcryst is hard stuck as a sniper.
@@MasterStacona Having to account for that usually limits what you can attack and how fast you move through. It limits efficiency. Therefore Alcryst is more efficient. Therefore better.
I feel like the problem with this comparison is that there is barely a discussion to be had, Amber is just flat out better while Etie and Alcryst seem overal similar in viability
That's the point though
There should've been an S rank 1-2 bow, then it would be a question of patch strength (Alcryst) or patch speed (etie/Amber)
Really is a shame there isn't a high-grade 1-2 bow cause then that opens up alcryst to being able enemy phase as well on avoid tiles and or with vantage/ crit engraving
Amber can't access S-Rank bows tho
@@ACLozMusik he can if he reclasses to sniper
@@yohanes2034 Ok true, I was only looking at Warrior
Counterpoint: Etie has female abs, which are objectively better than male abs
Female abs is 50% growth rate to her preciousness stat. Amber or Alcryst does not have that
False, both are hot.
@@GodChaos333 however Etie has a 0% growth in her alpaca stat, which is a hole she has to dig herself out of.
@@duetopersonalreasonsaaaaaa agreed
This is just fact
I think you’re misunderstanding the reason Etie and Alcryst are being compared, it’s not because they’re comparable units function wise if you factor reclassing. It’s arbitrarily based on how both of them start as bow classes, And therefore the community compares them.
If we’re talking about the Mekkah video, I think the only reason he made that video comparing them is because people do compare them, not because they’re the only units from an optimal perspective that actually should be compared.
Really, Etie and Alcryst should be compared to everyone around them, especially because of reclassing. But the reason they get compared is because at base they are similar.
And neither unit is very good, obviously amber will be better than either of them.
Etie is put on Warrior so reclassing is implied, she has no standout feature to justify running her over other units on base game
@@IcedCoffeeGaming well yeah if you want to use her long term she’s outclassed by other units, but in an optimal context she’s at best a flunky, you just use her to fill the niche of being an early game bow user that can easily kill flyers, she has the availability of joining in chapter 2 and being the only bow unit until chapter 7, while she definitely isn’t a vital niche, she still is definitely very good at killing flyers, Alcryst is basically the same thing, except he’s around from chapter 7 to chapter 12, which is when you get Fogado, who is stronger and faster and magically adept enough to use the radiant bow, So even if Etie’s stats are worse, which they are except for her strength and res, she can actually do things in those chapters when Alcryst can’t, and if you still felt like using a flunky archer, or two, you could keep using etie after getting alcryst, and both will just delete flyers.
The thing you have to consider is that if you’re trying to be the most effective you can be with your promotion items, you aren’t giving flunkies you’d bench master seals, and you’re not reclassing unpromoted units, so as a flunky both would likely stay in their base classes.
None of this is to say that they’re the only units you should compare to each other. People mostly just do it because of the surface level similarities, that said it’s still a valid comparison to be made, just like Amber being compared to Alcryst is a valid comparison.
Also, this isn’t quite related, and I’m really not an expert, but if you ask me, Warrior is better than Tireur D’élite
It has 4 more strength, and merciless, which is at least on par with luna, and it’s a backup class. Which means it can use longbows to easily support allies, Merciless is reliable when luna is only liable to trigger once if you’re doubling, it’s a gamble if you’re not, and still a gamble even if you are doubling, And axe access is handy sometimes, also, warrior has better growths. And isn’t bow locked as a class.
And Imo alcryst isn’t the best reclass unit next to lapis or amber.
The other reason they get talked about is because we are fixing what were largely bad or incorrect takes from launch. Alycryst was overvalued and Etie was undervalued to the point that people were putting many as two tiers in between them which simply put was absurd when you actually start crunching numbers.
Edit: Also Amber has been having a glow up lately, dude has come a long way from being a slightly better Alfred which I can go on a whole essay the issues with that comparison.
The thing is though those two more then most characters don’t really care for reclassing. The first thing to consider is a lot of the cast really benefit massively from reclassing. Most the cast is in classes that are genuinely bottom half of the classes they could be in for their dominant offense. The characters in might fixing classes are the ones that need speed fixing and vice versa. Kagetsu wants the strength from wyvern he’s in swordmaster literally only worse then magic classes for him for example. And then there’s Anna clanne who start out in a class using the wrong stat. You are gonna want like 15 or so second seals a lot of then time between reclassing and level resetting combat carries and saving a seal here and there can be a massive difference. While alcryst definitely could potentially benefit from warrior boosting his strength unlike most the lords his dex is actually high enough to make the class skill relevant and you can use lunar brace vs armors. It’s just not a big enough impact tobe worth the seal. Likewise etie REALLY benifits from being in the 1% of engage units who is actually in a class line that offers an option to fix the stat they need help with in the form of bow knight. Etie has strength but needs speed dex and either bulk fixing or the ability to just not get countered. The +3 speed on promotion combined with the new speed growth puts her at the same speed as alcryst -1 ( barring build) which realistically means they double the same targets. Bow knight as you’d expect from a class that promotes from archer is also good for dexterity which helps with hit rate issues she can have. And not only does the long bow allow her to not get countered ( as well as the additional option to break enemy units from the new melee proficiency ) but bow knight even raises her res bulk to bad but not atrocious to actually relevant. Bow knight’s stats fix Etie’s problems perfectly. And giving up long bow isn’t something etie wants to do so she really wants bow access. Putting her in warrior as opposed to bow knight means you need to spend more resources on skills to fix the issues you could of had fixed by just getting her the same proficiency you’d need for warrior and just using a master seal. This also means Etie’s skill slots in bow knight are also much more flexible as well as her engraves. You’d need some form of speed skill and hit engrave as a warrior. You are just investing a second seal to add new problems to invest to fix. It’s like smashing a lightbulb so you can go to the store that sells lightbulbs to buy one to change the lightbulb you just smashed. Their whole point is you are using them to save a second seal similar to fogado ( but he’s way better ) basically requiring no effort to get online
I really like that you outline that the Alcryst vs Etie discussion is a complete red herring. In a game where every single units can be reclassed, comparing two units purely based on their starting class is a huge waste of time.
I think it's way more interesting to compare units based on the potential roles that they can fill instead, like you've done in this video.
It’s a little less simple than that because reclassing costs a resource you don’t have limitlessly until about halfway in the game, it is relevant for early game units what their starting class is.
@@samkeiser9776 Second Seals are more plentiful than Master Seals, so I don't think the second seal is the real bottleneck for characters making their builds.
@@brandon3059 yeah, but reclassing into a different base class kind of sucks, the notable thing is that it resets the character’s level, but it doesn’t reset their internal level, so for example, if you reclassed a lvl 10 unit into a different base class, they’d gain exp like a level 10 unit but would need 9 more levels to actually promote, so reclassing a unit into a different base class is wasteful and usually stunts their growth, if you really want to reclass an early game unit, it is best to master seal then second seal them.
@@samkeiser9776 Yes, we agree. It's always best to master seal then second seal, therefore, having limited Second Seals doesn't matter at all because Master Seals are more limited than Second Seals.
So reclassing is not really a limited thing.
@@brandon3059 let me clarify, it’s not that reclassing is limited, it’s that promoting is. Second seals aren’t the bottle neck, master seals are.
This is funny, because I actually ran both Amber and Etie as bow knights for a bit in my first maddening run (despite warrior spam being more effective). They both did excellent towards the beginning of the solm arc, especially chapter 14, but both started to fall off in terms of damage by chapter 17. I did notice that Amber was always a little bit ahead of her though, so I put him in halberdier for a Sigurd brave lance build which worked a lot better. They both needed Lyn to one round, they both had solid strength, they both were squishy. But Amber’s passive just makes him such the obvious pick. I’m glad you’re making this the conversation, I’ve always thought of them as very similar units despite Amber not starting on bows. Same with Panette, who’s basically better than both of them statistically. Just high strength units with middling speed that want warrior to fix that without neutering their attack. Alcryst feels more like the thieves you get tbh
Bro really Mekkah's video and said: "Fuck both of them, Amber and his alpacas are where it's at."
Lmao
As a heads up, both Amber and Etie have supports with Alfred and Jade. Jade being hit focused and Alfred being avoid focused
Yunaka gets +25 Crit on an AVO tile as a Sniper. As a dodge tank, she will dive into a tree behind enemy lines and be invisible. If Louis can hold a choke point, Yunaka can spank it.
*+25
Alcryst always and forever, i will die on this hill (that vid rly rubbed me the wrong way so always nice to see other viewpoints LOL)
Ive never really understood any argument for Etie, even when you look at her supposed best stat -strength, it fails in comparison to others. I like her, and her design, but like, every time Ive used her, she was undoubtedly the worst unit on my team, and felt like a chore to make work. Unfortunately thats just how it was.
Yeah it is a mystery to me.
Idk. I feel like she's one of the best Mage Cannoneers but tbh having used the class in a few runs now I'm not convinced it's worth the investment of running. At this point I'm not gonna bother unless I really really want to run Etie (or Bunet, MC is his best class lmao)
@@AdmiralWalrus Idk about that, I have no opinions on mage cannoneers. So you could be right for all I know.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming I've encountered many Etie stan and it just bemused me. She obviously a middling unit in term of power and as character I don't see much of development from her support convos. Everything is just about working out, protein, etc. is just one dimensional.
It's a shame most archers are rubbish on enemy phase. I'm also surprised there isn't a flying archer class or a few other dual style classes.
I commented this in the recent Mekkah video on the topic, but I think dedicated Archers arent worth it by the late game and if youre going for best units youll have Panette on warrior (or Amber I guess in this case)
Well yeah, they said as much in Mekkah’s video, Etie and Alcryst are both at best flunkies if you’re playing optimally, but Etie is a flunky for the same amount of time, and turns out better than alcryst would if you actually decide to use her long term. you also don’t have to bench Etie for alcryst and both can shoot down fliers with a steel bow which means Etie can still be a flunky while alrcyst is around. Then when you get better units for their niches, you’d just replace them, if their niches are even worth having.
I’d argue warrior is definitely a good class at least
Though in the flunky context neither etie or Alcryst would promote. But Etie is around longer and therefore is better.
@@samkeiser9776 in the case of Etie vs Alcryst as a flunkie just use Etie. The avoid of the enemies aren't super high yet and her strength is just better with a better growth so if you only are gonna use 1 Archer just use Etie with a steel bow. Besides it'll be a better investment in the end if you use her permanently
i like the option that can hit. You only get 10 redos every map, and having to use it so she can hit stuff is not worth it. Amber with his personal skill is pretty great, and easy to activate, so he wins hard against Etie in my opinion.
i dont get the taking XP away from hard carries like for all the praise Cloe gets there are plenty of potential late game flyiers that don't need expensive skill's or forges to one round ennemies
Yea, steel lance or heroes lance + 3 with Sigurd and his engraving. With Lance power +3. She better pop off with all that.
Chloe can easily destroy the entire early-midgame by existing if you use her remotely optimally, you don't get this result on Etie on base game. in DLC version of the game anyone can break it
I still stand by my Wind God Warrior Etie build video!
Disregard flat damage Etie. Acquire massive chain attack range with little investment Etie. Even cheaper to build than dual assist heroes and lets a stronger unit like Amber use more resources to be even stronger. The added range lets her ignore her bad bulk, you dont have to upgrade weapons since shes mostly here for chain attacks anyways so she actually likes a silver bow for slightly more damage and shes just great for maxing the potential of your other units!
Based Wind God Enjoyer
That just tells me wind god is good, not that etie is good
Right. There are much better units. Units that I want to spend a lotta resources on. Etie with wind god as a warrior is super cheap and uses her high strength to apply some chip damage and, more importantly, provide massive chain attack range. High utility, low cost
Deployment is a resource tho. I'm not sold on using a slot for someone running around doing chain dmg, when I can deploy a more impactful unit or more utility. It just sounds like any Lucina user and you get that for free out of passives. If STR would factor in chain attacks and she could get XP out of it, then maybe. But the way you sell it it just sounds like a liability long term
Of course you could always just make Etie a lance Bow Knight and have Boucheron as your Warrior anyway.
Since Etie and Amber are so similar it goes to show she’s not a bad investment. Logically, the only decision to be made here is: Do I want a unit I can train and use to shoot Flyers from the very beginning all the way to the end game? Or do I want to wait for another unit that will either do the same thing that Etie is already doing, when Amber quite literally has other build options (his higher build quite literally means that he’s suited for weapons that are not bows.)
I was able to power level Etie to level 10 before getting Amber without over investing in her with Marth’s Mercurius or anything like that. There are actually very few units before ch 10 that you actually want to bring to the endgame, and coincidentally you get 6 emblem rings before ch 10. The trick with Engage is to just have 6 units you are focusing in on before ch 10, and to recruit 6 more post ch 11 to gradually fill out your party.
Out of all the early game candidates, in terms of a clear path of progression, Etie is the least path of resistance to getting your first Warrior.
Any talk of “investing in this one early unit takes away from other potential hard carries” is really just a logical fallacy when you can make most units easily broken in this game with the right investment.
Etie is the least path of resistance to getting your first warrior:
Anna has entered the chat.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming Eh, Anna herself resists the warrior path.
Every single time someone tries to argue that a unit isn’t that good (especially compared to another “statistically better unit), it becomes incredibly evident they haven’t actually tried to make them good throughout the game.
Um, the numbers don’t lie. You can try all you want, but if you try the same amount with both units, one will always be better than the other
No I actually have run Etie fully and she falls off without special treatment on base game maddening. As you enter Midgame she will struggle to hit and even wasn't able to 1 round flying units consistently.
Too be fair like 80% of the roster need special treatment to be good. Even Chloe needs resources specifically allocated to do really snowball as without investments like a early energy drop her performance drops a lot.
Now Etie does get less out of investment due to being bow lock for the early game then even if you get her out that her base bulk even as a bow knight or warrior is bad enough that she pretty much needs a Seraph robe or only attack lance users if she wants to melee
But yeah Etie is still fairly easy to make good by low tier fire emblem standards
I dont get why some people think alcryst is bad, his luna is not a matter of “will it trigger ?” cuz it will 😂 his insane dex makes him roll for both luna and crit for that insane high dopamine rush. Ive always used him to kill tougher enemies when my hyper carries like panette, anna and chloe couldn’t one round the enemy.
Archers not being able to enemy phase is their main problem. He’s def one of the better archers in the game but why use an archer when u can use literally anything else that hits harder AND can enemy phase
Oh boy a 30% chance to do as much damage as Etié at a similar level
@@sam7559 Thats the same chance Etie has of surviving a hit at a similar level
@@goroadachi9489 if your archer is getting attacked something has already gone wrong. That would be like saying Seadall was D tier for his low combat and survivability
@@sam7559 If your archer can’t tank at least one hit then that limits severely the positions you can put yourself into and what you can attack, and gives you little margin of error. If Etie misses then that’s probably a reset. Also Seadall actually has some survivability options if you forge his shielding art or give him a health passive because unlike Etie, he has Speed
Im gonna miss this game, but when TOK comes out this game will be put on hold for a long time. But the Mock battle system in the Trails is so much fun. Ive been leveling up all my units on Normal so Skirmishes pop up alot more for the soul purpose of having the best team battles ever. SMs are hard to beat when theyre maxed out, but Im having a blast. You should try it some time.
You forgot Etie’s hidden stats in the code. She has Cute bow, and Abs for days. Which give her extra 50% growth rates to likability. That’s a lot of stats over the course of the game
she has a very cute outfit. like a catgirl.
In my first playthrough i used Amber with Emblem Lyn, so despite being a Paladin it was as if he was a Bow knight using mulagir. It was funny and the speedboost helped him one round a lot of things with his incredible strength stat.
I have run them both but personally I like Alcryst more for that dopamine boost everytime Luna procs (which is almost always with his high dex) and overall usability outside shooting birds (with Luna ofc). While Etie, she has dex problem outside of being squishy and slow. You'll have problem with hitting fliers later on (archer that miss hitting fliers is no use) because of her low dex. Also Etie personal skill is objectively worst than Alcryst.
Now comparison with Amber is eye opining cause Etie and Amber is so similar but he's just better.
Thank u for showing the Alpaca hero some love and showing up those Etie fanatics
I've mentioned this in streams before that Etie was robbed by Amber. People said it was really weird for me to compare Amber to Etie, because people were stuck on the idea of turning into a halberdier. Sure, he doesn't have aptitudes matching warrior. but Etie's bow aptitude only earns her Silver bow access.
Based Amber Enjoyer
Married Alcryst in my second playthrough is impossible for me to not use him because i love him so much, not saying etie is bad but by chapter 9 is her or alcryst and my choice will always be alcryst. Doing an only lord run to see how good Fogado can be.
The real question is what about Fogado?
The only thing I would take issue with in your assessment of Etie is that she cannot get to level 10 when Amber arrives without feeding her extra kills. At the end of Chapter 8, my Etie was level 11 just through her normal work of killing fliers ... just doing her job, and sometimes opportunistic chip damage on other enemies when she ran out of fliers to kill. And that is with splitting flyer kills with Alcryst.
Other than that, your analysis is irrefutable. The only other dimension I would suggest you examine is that sure, Amber is a better bow-using Warrior than Etie, but what is the opportunity cost for making Amber a Warrior instead of a Hero, or a Berserker, or a Wyvern Knight, or a Paladin?
With or without DLC?
@@IcedCoffeeGaming With DLC, so that means she did get XP from the Tiki divine paralogue. That is probably the source of the discrepancy between your Etie and mine. Mine has killed MANY wyverns with a Longbow. Yours likely has not.
A divine paralogue on average gives units +2-5 level ups, on base game Etie struggles to hit lv 7-8 by the time you get Amber even with some intentional feeding
@@IcedCoffeeGaming That tracks. Everyone who survived Tiki got about 2 levels, I think Chloe and Jean got 3.
Etie may need to go to the back benches soon regardless. Even at 11 with DLC, Amber is still the better Warrior. And with Citrinne now coming online with her 3 range poke, and a whole mess of armor enemies on the Chapter 9 map, her knocking out fliers with the ballastia in her last battle may indeed have been her last battle.
Warrior has the best stats in the game, so aside from amber eties niche is disrupted by fogado, as while as Warrior!Merrin, with Warrior! Pannete and even Warrior! Kagestu being strong options.
She might last until fogado joins, but at that point she’s outclassed.
The only reason people like Etie is because of her abs.
You might be onto something
@@IcedCoffeeGaming Trust me. I'm a recovering Etie addict and that was the reason!
I just like Etie because I get a kick out bringing out the best of normally considered bad characters which is especially rewarding in engage because the worst characters in the game are still really strong.
But Amber's voice
True
…is great
I feel like Etie is Alfred/Vander tier. Kills a couple fliers and that’s about it. The other 2 can tank a few hits and that’s about it. I cant stand how slow and frail she is
I'm glad I finally see another person speaking about how Amber is just better than those two.
Amber's my favorite character, even with some shortcomings I've seen in my Maddening run. But Etie has been carrying so well, I might just run them both next time. Can you tell me what to expect for iron / steel / silver ingot resources, non DLC? 7:30 for reference.
Depends on how many paralogues you do/what you get your donation levels to
@@IcedCoffeeGaming You've done a lot more playthroughs then most. How do you prioritize the donation levels while progressing?
I like to use Alcryst with Corrin. With the 60 avoid he gets from fog and 15 hp from Corrin he can tank reasonably well, and he also does decent retaliatory chip from melee range even with the minibow thanks to luna. You could also engage and use Corrin's weapons for that but I usually save his engage for the important task of locking down bosses with a longbow. And of course he shoots down fliers, as all archers do. Anyways, I haven't been using him solely as a player phase unit.
Etie vs Alcryst is still important as while Amber is objectively better than both of them it shows how worthy Etie is of being used at all. If Alcryst didn't exist there would be no one else to snipe flyers but now that he exists he takes up her role before chapter 9 when you get leif's bow proficiency and second seals. It also shows that since Alcryst is slightly better than her giving her precious exp is pointless. Especially when Alcryst can still be powerful in his special class with a strong brave bow+Eirika build AND can become a warrior to rival Etie. That said its important people know that weapon types are no longer unique to units. You gotta choose the units that works best with your build.
Etie is the best
President of the Etie Fan Club
but why use Amber when Panette clears?
Hmm, this gives me ideas for my new run. I loved Etie as a warrior with Lyn, so maybe that's what I should do with amber! Mulagir doesn't care about weapon rank.
As long as I don't get him killed this run lol
Alcryst gets Luna and his dex is amazing. That itself should put Etie on the backseat.
Etie is practically useless if you can procc luna consistently.
Not really, against low defense enemy a equal level warrior Etie and Alycryst in his personal needs luna just to equal Etie's damage. Dex is however good which is Alycryst claim to fame but order for Alycryst to out damage Etie per hit he either needs to trigger luna on high defense enenies or get a crit
Alycryst main advantage over Etie is he can run a crit/luna build and his slightly better survivability makes it possible to hit wrath thresholds if you want to go with that.
This plus better hit without supports which is important due to how fast fliers get late game
Etie has something Amber doesn't, waifu status
Very good video as usual. One minor thing though: Isn't any discussion of Supports on Amber pointless since in order to make use of the passive stats from the Support you'd be turning off Amber's personal skill?
I see it as a sort of alternative, especially early on for when you have low support ranks. You can either stand alone to get hit rate or stand near certain characters to get hit rate.
Poor Etie; she would be mortified if she knew how people talked about her on the internet
Imagine thinking a unit’s self worth is directly tied to their base stats and growth rates, things they were born with, did not choose, and cannot change!
Fuckin canceled 😂
What’re the Sniper caps in this game? And what’re Alcryst’s in his promoted personal class?
Wait who were Amber and Panete again? I swear I forget half of the cast exists lol
I feel like all of the points about weight/build comparisons here don't really matter because Etie and Amber are both slow enough that you'll have go out of your way (Lyn, Speedtaker, etc) to make them fast enough to double anyway.
Also, I’d argue warrior bases fix most of their build issues, unless you want them to use axes even when using bows is often more convenient.
doesnt etie have access to better bows as a warrior because of her proficiency in bow?
the main issue is that the funds are more costly to make etie outperform amber with b rank bows
@@priestessii eh not really 100% true.
Steel bows cost less to forge per level but need to be forge to +3 to surpass a base sliver bow mt and equal hit
This costs 180 iron 6 steel 1 sliver 1800G
This gets immediately surpassed by a +1 sliver bow which takes
50 iron, 5 steel 1 sliver 1000G
In order for a steel bow to surpass a +1 sliver bow you need to get it to +4 just to equal hit which costs
260, 10, 2, 2800
In terms of added mt and hit Sliver bow+1 is a significantly less costly then steel.
The main advantages of steel are crit and wt which don't matter for warriors because if you are going crit bow user you are probably running sniper or your are using Pannette as a warrior with ike and likely using a killer bow as a side to a killer axe and wt is not a big Factor since Warriors are usually not planning on doubling.
Hence sliver bows do have value because every one sliver you can use is one less steel that needs forging
@@priestessii Killer bow has a lot less mt then both steel and sliver and hit meaning unless you are going for a crit build the damage loss isn't worth it. You need to go all in on crit if you want it to be viable so realistically only a couple characters going to be able to use a good crit builds in general let alone ones using killer bows due to engraving limitations. So once again sliver bows are extremely resource friendly.
Killer bows also need more forging to be useful since a base of only 7 mt is really bad while Sliver is good to go at base or at +1.
Radiant bow is the best bow for fliers but sucks for everything else unless you are using a magic unit as most enemies have enough res to tank it even from more magically focused units since bow classes don't really have any magic base or growths especially the warrior class.
In a vacuum Sliver bow access is whatever but it's value goes up the more bow users you use which warrior is a stupid good class so there is reasons to use more then one and there are enough fliers in the game to justify a decent amount of bow users..
Edit: Now this doesn't make Etie a better warrior then Amber but you can just use both since Warrior is one of the two best back up classes in the game and gives her something over Amber even if it is minor.
I was so sad when I started picking up the actually good units and realized that Etie is actually trash tier. She has such a fun personality and good character design. But I play to win so she has been off the rotation as soon as practical with minimal investment before I recruit a replacement.
The devs kinda cruel on her. Like she works out plenty but can't lift her weapon. I remember that she can't use steel bow until promoted because of her starting build and build growth are just bad. Even when promoted and recleassed to warrior, she can't use steel axe until levelling up couple of times.
I think saying, "don't bother with either because both are bad" is just kinda missing the point and it's an effort at thought-terminating. Obviously you're not gonna use either if you're playing "optimally", but if you're trying to use either of them they'll work just fine. Haven't done it myself, it's pretty easy to use Etie once she's out of Archer. In any case, you probably aren't gonna use Amber either because Panette's better than him!
Panette might actually not be better than him, she has 25 STR on Berserker Amber has 21 STR on Warrior (Starting), Panette switching to warrior loses 1STR, Amber can easily level up a few times by the time you get Panette, he may just be a 2nd panette but without the CRIT passive.
So starting in CH 9 and onward Amber on warrior has 21 STR on warrior vs Panettes 24 STR on Warrior (-1 from Zerker switch). Amber on Warrior has 65% STR Growth and would need to level up 5 times between CH 9 - 13 to be at Panettes STR AKA very easily done/achievable.
A Berserker punches both with a silver smash axe and all will be decided.
Alcryst has more defense, speed and moon.
I used to play sacred stones a bunch. I would always make neime into a beast because you get free orions bolts. After enough 20/1 she genuinely is a beast. Despite this, after years, I just stopped using her.
What i tell people is if im playing in maddening why the ever living hell would i invest in etie a slow ass unit when alcryst is around with much better speed ok strength a kinda busted class ability and low investment costs.
Im all about waifu emblem that's the reason Goldmary is my favorite engage character but facts are facts and Etie as much as i like her is often a liability in maddening.
And then like you said theres amber my problem with amber tho is that he is just as much a liability as Etie and in all honesty after trying sniper yunaka with sneak attack i cant go back to anyone else
No, never make Fogado a warrior, just keep him on his base class as it is a bow knight made for Radiant bow, but with a much higher speed cap.
Then give him Erika and a brave bow for late game one rounding.
Lances are just bigger arrows anyway lol.
I do wonder, would a lance shot out of a matching bow deal as much damage as if you used them properly?
My guy, how did u get so much money in this run? I'm always broke in this game except right after the chapters where the game hands u a ton of money
It is a post game save file
The Alpaca Hero is Here-Oh!
Iron/Steel/Silver Bow is bad, just use longbow and killer bow with axes as other weapons
Strongest bow is Radiant Bow, but only for those with magic like Anna and Fogado which makes them the best archers in the game, one shot fliers and one round armour units.
This, I don't know why people prefer Alcryst over Fogado, he is just more reliable especially at ORKO enemy wyvern at late game.
So I tried Etie at sniper, but ended up using lapis and Rosado in those roles. Lapis with build +3 does work and Rosodao was a magic bow quality time thot.
I use Alcryst because I like the damn guy.
"I don't mean to end Etie's career, but that what we are doing anyway" - Coffee
Is it truly nessersary to have a whole party slot devoted to removing fliers? Like, would wind magic on magic users be enough?
Nah, IMO you can run whatever you want and do ok
Reclassing is a cute casual option but I'm no casual gurl so I use the characters as they were intended from the begining
So you run Etie on Sniper?
@@IcedCoffeeGaming yes, I did on my first run, she was so crazy on damage (almost anyone that uses lyn will be a good unit) She definitely made my chapters a lot easier, specially since I only had two bow users (warrior Boucheron)
I usually play with my husband and we use different characters, this run I'm using Fogado and he's using Alcryst as main bow users
Most of the early nits aren't up to snuff without DLC.
With DLC Etie has more STR than Pennette.
Etie, Amber, and Panette will all do the same thing as a Warrior in your playthrough.
Post game with capped stats Etie is better because of her max strength cap is higher.
I see people mention caps often but in all of my maddening runs including the 5 man DLC run where I had starsphere I have yet to hit caps on any units.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming Post game has infinite exp, the only hard cap are the stat caps. Caps are based on class and character.
Also, Wyvern knight has a really high cap for offensive and defensive stats, that is why the class is just overpowered because it is too strong at both.
My anna gets so many kills she always stat caps on a few stats for end game.
In terms of a normal run to the credits, you won't hit strength caps, though enchanter STR and MAG caps are pretty low, speed cap is way higher than martial master speed cap.
Playing until end credits completion, Amber, Etie, and Panette on warrior will all do the same thing with no difference between each other - Warrior and Lyn ring and they will hard carry all the way to the end. They are all S tier, but you can only run 1 per playthrough.
Others like Louis can do it too, but he is better off as a General with his spear and silver greatlance. Give him Tiki or Sigurd when you get Sigurd back, Tiki the whole time if you using DLC rings.
@@MasterStacona If you level up units to the max stat caps post game, there's no uniqueness among them anymore (besides their personal skill) as everyone will have the same max stat in the respective classes. Sure there're unique + or - stat for each character but the difference is almost negligible tbh. That's why we're so pressed on character growths because in game you can only level up so much that character growth rates will play a role in determining which character is best on certain class and role.
@@yohanes2034 nope, every character has a different max stat, max stat is a combination of the class and character.
Some characters will have slightly more speed, some slightly more magic, some slightly more def, some slightly more str, etc. depending on the character.
Classes just have the greatest influence of stat caps.
@@MasterStacona if they reclass to same class the max stat difference based on which character you use is just +- 2 or 3. Like that difference won't break the game. Hence why maxing stats post game really not interest me that much
I really wish Yunaka or Zelkov have a special class with knives and bows that are still considered covert. It would probably invalidate warrior completely when it comes with to bow access
Backup is a better tag than covert though
That’d be so fun with Lyn, love this idea
"Better strength growth" ICG, it's 5%. That's 1 point in 20 levels.
The trade off is that you would have to... Ew... Use Amber 🤢
This. I have never had such a visceral reaction to needing to bench someone after an introduction until Amber showed up. Usually my reaction is "Oh, shiny. How am I going to fit this into these deployment slots? :/", but he shot right out instantly. His Killer Lance is like a dowry I'm given to apologize for having to hear him for a chapter.
Me when he said hear me out:
👂🏻👁️👄👁️👂🏻
Me when he said you can’t refute this:
👂🏻👁️❌👁️👂🏻
Developers did not correlate her lore with her stats. Etie does running and strength training like a maniac then the rest of the cast but somehow has avg str(40) and spd(35). But i still run her and Goat vander.
40% is still above average being only 5% less then Pannete, but yeah should be 45% or more for more. The running Etie is less about speed then endurance so really she should just take hits better rather then be super fast.
The devs went sadistic with her. In one support convos she used weighted teacups for weight training but dear lord how she can't handle steel bow because her starting build is so low and just 5% build growth. The lore does not match up with reality
Nice vid, but i think I'm just gonna use my favorite units and be on my way.
I dunno just like pump them full of premium dlc juice or something and they're viable probably
Really love your analyses tbh. It seemed pretty obvious to me that etié was better than alcryst, but didn't even consider amber who is kinda just passively slightly better than etié. Def gonna run warrior amber next run through.
In an optimal run Etie and Alcryst aren't amazing but honestly if you just wanna kill fliers then Etie is just better then Alcryst because she has better strength if we just compare those two. She has higher strength and growth especially if you don't plan to use a master seal on them. So before the solm chapters fliers aren't super fast so their avoid isn't as super jacked meaning the hit rate issues is also lessened. Using the steel bow on her to one shot fliers is good enough but you might as well bring Alcryst since one archer is not gonna be enough to handle all the fliers in the castle map. Then yoy can just use Fogado from then on since as a warrior he keeps his massive speed growth and a decent strength growth or just use the radiant bow in his personal class. Now if you did invest in Etie for the later chapters the hit issue is small and you also have Leif, Lyn, and Lucina and more emblems to fix the hit rates. Compared to everyone else she falls behind in a lot of areas except strength with only Amber and Panette beating her out. So using her isn't a bad idea if you can slot her in and make her a combat unit. Or a combat filler unit. Most of the time a lot of other units can't one hit or one round things but Etie can with her really high strength and Lyn. Or a forged lucky critical. Now Amber and Etie yeah Etie is just strictly worse then he is in warrior. This is generally just a problem with the early game units. Céline, Louis, Alfred, Boucheron. They are just worse then Citrinne, or Jade, or Panette and Bunet.... Actually nvm Bunet is trash. I love him though. The early game units aren't bad when trained its just that the future units are so fucking busted.
Ivy, Kagetsu, Zelkov, Fogado, Pandreo, Panette, and Merrin just outshine everyone because they just do. Past solm the characters..... not so much.... Like I love Rosado but 16 base strength....no... Saphir and Lindon are also hard to fit but aren't bad. Etie is a good investment when compared to some of them since in the long term she has so much strength and pairs so well with Lyn that I feel its good enough to outshine them. Unless you use Amber
In terms of Amber vs Etie they're basically the same unit if you put them in warrior except etie has a better personality! That is a fact. Alpaca's are fucking lame. Props for that. The speed difference is so minimal that it really doesn't matter. Just put lyn on them because they are never going to double ever unless they have a brave axe. And they're both really slow like Amber can never ever be put in the same general direction as a mage or else he just fucking dies because he can't outspeed a mage. They are never gonna tank more then 1 or 2 hits because a difference between 2 defence and 3 res is not gonna save them. Whichever one you want to use is based off personal preference. But Amber will do more damage and he has higher build and defense so props to Amber for being statistically better. Now for SP Etie has a starting SP of 300 so in 6 levels thats 600 sp or 900 at level 10 if you gave her an engage ring. So technically she has a higher SP potential then Amber but it does use resources which are suuuuuuuper valuable I guess? With bond rings she only has 600 at level 10 so if you don't want to give her an emblem ring she has less SP. If you have the DLC though then SP problems begone. I mean Fire emblem has so many enemies you don't have to worry about giving them exp if you are making them a permanent part of the team. Amber takes less investment to perform the same. Alcryst takes less investment to perform worse. So if you invested into Eite. Vs Alcryst its a good investment, vs Amber its a bad investment. Though the difference between the three of them is minimal. I used Etie in alot of my runs, I used Amber in a few others. Etie and Amber again are basically the same unit which I don't think is a bad thing. I'd say being the third best highest stength unit is just really good. She can snipe dangerous enemies you don't wanna deal with and you have a second Warrior Amber to do the same thing. They never need to worry about getting into combat with the longbow or just Bows in general so their low bulk matters a bit less. But if you're not using either of them then yeah you get Panette who can do that
"In terms of Amber vs Etie they're basically the same unit if you put them in warrior except etie has a better personality"
I feel like you missed the part where he has a statistical edge over her and requires no investment
@@IcedCoffeeGaming @Iced Coffee Gaming what do you mean? I mentioned it later on in my comment by saying amber does more damage and has a little more build and defense. I'm saying that is a small statistcal advantage.
Etie makes up the difference with the silver bow since their strength difference is only 2 points for 90% of the game. The silver bow has 3 extra mt. Or 9 points against fliers. Now for forging it is true that a maxed forged steel bow is cheaper and with 16mt but then the difference for a +3 forged silver is 17mt. 1 point difference or 3 for effective damage. The 5% extra str growth matters only at the very end of ths game. Other then that they're basically the same except Amber has 2 points in strength, defense, build and requires a little less favortism. Etie is still very good all things considered. Probably the best Archer in terms of the other archer characters. And she only loses to Amber and Panette in terms of strength by like 2 points. Which is made up for by the slightly higher mt of the silver bow.
Now for axes yeah she can't make up that difference but the Noatun is a really good light axe for her to use
I hate that she has low build, because the supports say otherwise.
I wish I could understand why people run warriors or bows lol. Tomes do what bows do but better imo. And when it comes to axes for warrior I’d rather have a paladin or flyer. I have only ran warriors a couple times in my early play throughs and they felt so so to me.
Etie and Panette on Warrior were absolutely clutch for me on my first run. Etie focused on Bows and Panette critting with axes. But but kept a Longbow handy for chain attack cheese chip damage.
Panette was also fantastic to throw solo on a choke point and murder everything coming at her. The only mage I found that can do that is Ivy when engaged with Soren.
I just get more utility out of Warriors since I horde my staves too much.
backup units. good class skill.
i dont like tomes except thoron.
Amber is my favorite archer
I think warrior amber is the real question here. I think he's better off using his lance proficiency for things like wyvern and Great Knight. In terms of pure flying deletion, I think Radiant Bow Fogado is just better than Warrior Amber, let alone Alcryst and Etie. Both Alcryst and Etie do fine enough for their join times, which if you ask me is more valuable than 2nd sealing Amber into a not as good class for him like warrior if you ask me.
For reference, I did a little spreadsheet on Amber, Etie, Fogado, and Alcryst. I assumed they'd each reached level 13 promoted and promoted instantly. Etie and Amber were put into Warrior, Alcryst into T'ieur d' Elite, and Fogado Cupido. I used one of the chapter 18 wyverns as a reference for damage. With a +5 steel bow, neither Etie nor Amber could one shot said wyvern. Etie needs +5 damage, and Amber needs +2, so a tonic will let him one shot, while etie would need either lunar brace and a tonic or a dual strike. Alcryst merely does above average chip damage without luna, but he does kill if he has a luna proc and a tonic. There's only a 28% chance-ish of that happening, although that could hypothetically jump up as high as 40% if you have a dex tonic, Dex boost emblem, and inherit Dex+ skills. Fogado would outright oneshot with a Radiant Bow +3 and is only a few points of speed away from doubling, making him easily have the highest potential listed damage but ultimately being kind of overkill at the end of the day.
I haven't mentioned the Silver bow differences as most of the time the differences are negligible. The only notable threshold a silver bow +3 gets is that it lets alcryst one shot them with a luna proc without any boosts to direct damage output.
The thing is, if you ask me the whole argument of Amber > Etie/Alcryst is pointless cause Amber has better things to do. Paladin, Wyvern, and Great Knight I think are far better options for him. It lets him use his Lance proficiency for access to better greatlances for insane damage output, much more than he would on average with bows, and you're using his lance proficiency. While yes, he can use warrior's greataxes, movement from all the other said classes is more valuable I would imagine. I think Great Knight is his best move personally, or you could go for goofy Wolf Knight shenanigans.
Even then, assuming you're playing fixed mode Amber vs Etie in warrior is only a minor difference in damage output. Etie is only 2 points away from Amber in str in most cases, and if they're getting attacked on enemy phase and dying, that's more likely the fault of the player not their defenses. Also Etie's longterm Res lead is notable if you ask me, her 5 extra points at the levels I mentioned could let her chip certain mages and live if she doesn't outright oneshot. Plus lategame thoron mages are abundant and as her res scales more and more it could matter more and more for baiting mages with longbows or something. And if you want an archer to be enemy bait on the physical side, Alcryst is far better than either of them defensively, largely due to his speed lead letting him avoid being doubled, and potential covert avoid bonuses.
Tl;DR:
Amber has better things to do than warrior, Imo. Etie and alcryst join and perform servicably, and both end up pretty ok longterm, Etie being better for consistent damage and Alcryst doing some silly luna stuff. Fogado has the most potential flier deletion.
Okay but hear me out: Tomboy Workout Partner Waifu
Both are not good just for the fact that they can't use Radiant Bow, the best Bow in the game by far. Fogado as Cupido is absolutely clear because he can kill high DEF enemies and end game flyers in one shot. I even turned Anna into a Bow Knight after spending time as Sage leveling her Magic and with the 24 Magic Cap she was still able to one shot flyers
Yes you are right, BUT
she cute
Yeah I tried saying this on mekkahs video and all the Etie stans came out with really poor arguments. Lmaooo
Oh boi is it Etie hating time again? All my homies hate Etie.
This is not relevant to a playthough but I have maxed Etie and alcryst, gave them both best skills , tried etie on bow night archer and warrior class and alrcyst still outclassed her with no emblem. Again not relevant to a playthrough, but thought let u know.
This is all you need to do for Etie:
Sigurd Ring early game, inherit Canter before chapter 10
Lyn Ring on her all game and reclass to Warrior
That is it, nothing more is needed outside of giving engraves and forging weapons, but that is baseline for a carry.
Everyone doubles with Lyn ring, which means whoever has the highest strength is best for Lyn ring, and Alcryst is just bad and the only reason to have him is for Luna procs and even then you are relying on RNG to do what Etie can do all of the time. His strength is too low to make a good warrior, you better off with Boucheron as warrior and give him a Chrom ring.
If you are running DLC anyone is a hard carry. On base game Etie has a lot of problems and she steals XP away from better units.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming I forgot Sigurd and Lyn are DLC rings, my bad, Warrior that is a DLC class too how could i forget
I didn't even use axe power either, i did inherit momentum though with the canter, but there are much better passives to inherit than momentum
if you one round the entire game as Etie then it does not matter if someone is better because you are still one rounding. Etie also has a high max strength cap so she is better in post game.
@@MasterStacona One, there are far better options for Sigurd, second, there are far better options for Lyn. If high strength is useful for Lyn, there are plenty of units with more strength than her, that don’t have the caveat of having terrible bulk, and bad dex, and build. Also why the hell would you not give Sigurd to Chloe who is objectively better than Etie in every way
@@IcedCoffeeGaming For Boucheron, you can stick anything on him, he is really good as an axe Griffin Knight and you could give him axe power with it which I never done, but it obviously would be really good and still popped off without it.
His ability to use the best axe without speed penalties or barely any and double on them is a huge advantage, can make use of tomahawk, well axe, and brave axe because of his passive - his passive works with crits multiplier too.
There is no ring he needs, just don't give him Lyn, he is already super fast naturally. Chrom is just a stand out ring that was made for Boucheron. Any ring that is more damage orientated is good.
Warrior is also good for him and Wyvern Knight of course be good too, but Wyvern Knight is just overtuned so its good for any non-magic character.
@@goroadachi9489
Sigurd is only a damage ring early game on slow attackers for that one hit to hit harder. Chloe is a very low strength and high speed user so she is not good with Sigurd, and Chloe is just not good unless you invest into her, Etie requires zero investment to be good.
Sigurd later on is an utility ring ideal for Generals to give them a movement passively and a ton of movement while engaged, and the ultimate skill is great with a silver greatlance / greataxe.
Durability is only an argument for generals because they are meant to tank hits and low durability characters will suck at that.
Etie was able to take some hits just fine as a Warrior on Maddening as well.
it’s alcryst because he has a cool sounding unique class he just needs a haircut to be 10/10
Tbh both Alcryst and Etie are bad, to the point that Warrior Boucheron outclass them as well
Boucheron has less str than Etie, but had high dex, high speed, has more bulk, more build, can tank with Ike, can one round non-fliers with a crit build...
He's also the best earlygame Marth user so he can level up easier with Mercurius
Yeah when you're outclassed by Bouchron it's pretty bad lmao
even if you were working on it before mekkah's video - its kind of a bad look, unfortunate timing though.
Mekkah's video is one of many sources of inspiration for making this video, others have made videos on these two and tons of comments/my own channel has had months worth of Etie comments when I made the Etie guide.
Am I not allowed to cover videos on topics other people cover? I don't specifically call out Mekkah or any other video/YTer in the video.
I loved this timing personally, the topic was on my mind because of Mekkah's and I love your take. Doesn't seem like a callout at all and debating these two units has been a huge discussion since release
@@IcedCoffeeGaming eh its not that youre not allowed its just unfortunate timing, but also the title of the video is basically the exact same
either way its just my feedback - i watch a decent amount of your content, not flaming at all.
@@philahn9846 Maybe you don't realize it but saying 'unfortunate timing' when the timing is on purpose and 'a bad look' comes across annoyingly passive-aggressive. If you're going to accuse someone, be direct about it.
@@grampaseri cry about it - im giving my feedback and he can take it or ignore it.
Counterpoint - Amber is annoying. ;-)
This video completely misses the point. I feel like this is a discussion for the absolute peak of Fire Emblem Engage players, and even more so for the casual players. It really doesn't serve much purpose for someone like Iced-Coffee-Gaming or anyone else in between to argue over which archers suck less, because you hate archers so much you just immediately change the subject.
The reason you compare Etie and Alcryst is because they both come as Covert Archers. Their classes are similar, you throw Fogado into the mix and he gets an instant loss for being a shittier class type. When you start class changing everything to Warrior though you lose the whole point. Why use Amber or Etie when you can use a far better Warrior? There are many better at being a Warrior than these two. Make Yunaka a Warrior and suddenly Etie's not even allowed in the discussion. Which actually brings me to another point. Aspiring Hero is garbage. Hit +20 is almost never worth -10 Avoid. I can understand accepting the nerf when it's for +6-10 damage, but for 20 fcking hit? Amber would be better without a character skill, he's an inconvenience because he needs a baby sitter or he starts getting spanked. Anyways moving on.
When you compare Etie and Alcryst in their base classes, with promotions to logical promotions that stay the same. Sniper/Tierre Du Elite, it suddenly becomes, which is better: Luna, or the potential for slightly better stats if you level Etie from the start. In either case you should be considering this as your Lyn user (As it is Lyn who enables Archers to enemy phase and Covert is the best class type for her.)
Now you don't use that sort of build, so this debate is kind of pointless for you, but the best players are going to recognize, and more importantly, most casuals don't hate archers and will in fact be picking 1 up, and probably enjoying some sick use of Brave and Killer bows. Ultimately Alcryst is better, but they should still pick Etie up instead because her character is more interesting and better looking and Luna doesn't make that much of a difference, since both actually suck vs high defense targets like General.
At the end of the discussion, 2 things are clear. Warriors don't fucking matter and Amber can go to hell, utilizing his suicide passive to speed run his way there.
wut
Etie is aweful lol
Chloe is not very good, you are just extremely bias towards her and Ivy
Keep telling yourself that.
All high speed unit is automatically good, ivy is the only flying mage in this game without dlc that should be all explanation needed
LTC - great weapon ranks (warp, bolganone), 1-2 range flight magic, great magic, every weakness can be patched up and has great bases outside said weakness. She is the best LTC unit.
LTC with DLC - you get a lot of broken stuff such as damage boosting things. Turns out physical Chloe ends up being the best unit in this context because of a couple factors.
And in other contexts that I prefer to play in, Chloe is the best unit too : D magic go brrr
@@sohn7767 look let's be real 99% of players don't give a flying eff about LTC
Alcryst always sucks, Etie is just always consistent with making kills without the need for RNG, and you can make Etie a warrior the best archer class in the game and she looks goooood in that Warrior outfit so she has the drip going on, Alcryst is hard stuck as a sniper.
Based on what I just watched it sounds like Alcryst would be overall the better warrior. Less dmg sure but a lot more survivability and ability to hit
@@sorasblade-cg4ux hitrate is very easy to fix in engage and so is speed, and durability is not a factor as you can just not get hit when you attack
@@MasterStacona Having to account for that usually limits what you can attack and how fast you move through. It limits efficiency. Therefore Alcryst is more efficient. Therefore better.
Alcryst would make a strong wyvern.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming Literally everyone makes a strong Wyvern except for the magic characters