The TRUTH about Etie.
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- #fireemblem #fireemblemengage #feengage
In this video I outline how Etie is a hard unit to turn into a hard carry. Outside of DLC or blatant XP farming, she has a rough early-middlegame and a meh endgame without excessive resource dumping.
Etie fans do seem to think i can fix her is a green flag in a relationship 😂😂😂
Base Panette looking at an overfed Etie : Look what they need to mimic a fraction of my Power
Goldmary: "Look at you, picking up my manor of speech. I'm flattered that you chose the best person to emulate."
Bad childhoods grant immeasurable power
I had a level 10/4 Warrior Etie on fixed mode with no stat-boosters when Panette joined, base Panette in Warrior 24 strength, Etie as the IL I mention above 23 strength, just saying.
Hard difficulty really brainwashed people
yea no kidding
Etie is one of those characters where she just really needed a good personal skill to be worth running. Community discussion on this channel specifically has brushed up on it in the past, but the ultimate question around any unit is "Why do I want to run this unit over other units" and then arguing "Why this unit's qualities are better than this other unit's qualities". If we want to really compare the three main archers you get, Etie has higher strength growth but poor stats everywhere else. If we reclass her to warrior, all the other warrior characters have better bases and similar if not better strength than her. If we compare her to the thieves, Zelkov and Yunaka both have qualities that make them better both offensively and defensively.
The reason Etie is a bad unit isn't just isolated to her stats, it's that every other unit in the game has something over her. Alcryst is a better physical archer with access to Luna, Fogado is a faster and generally more magical archer, Boucheron is a better warrior without the investment cost, Amber has better strength than her in literally any class and all contexts, Panette is the crit build queen, and if you want to run a Sniper crit build specifically then Yunaka, Lindon, Alcryst, Fogado, and Kagetsu all completely trounce her in terms of speed, survivability, crit consistency, and damage.
I don't wanna be too harsh, and I love Etie as a character, but she just objectively has a lot of problems and not a lot of pros to make up for her very real cons in combat. As was said in this video, it's a single player game, you can run whoever you want, and I think anybody being rude or ugly to somebody based on what units they like running is missing the point of FE (a problem the community has had for YEARS), but at the end of the day, so much experimentation has been done with Etie that I don't think we'll find that many builds where she excels in the foreseeable future. Objectively, she just isn't very good, and that's perfectly fine, but I think the argument on her is more or less settled.
Alycryst has poor strength and barely better speed that also requires speed-fixing, he only has better bulk. The only real advantage he has is he can be promoted right away while Etie needs a few levels, really optimally Etie flyer kills until Alycryst who takes over until Fogado and then you never use either again.
@@FUTBALLZAK Alcryst's high dex and access to Luna means the strength deficit doesn't actually impact him that much, since Luna ignores a proportional amount of enemy defence anyway. The reason he's a superior archer is that his higher dex makes him more accurate, higher build slows him less with a killer bow, and he's generally more versatile. I'm not really an Alcryst fan, but his unique class and better growths in his bulk means he has better survivability and still outpaces Etie's damage, especially since his personal skill stacks strength and he only needs to be generally around allies to activate it. Etie's skill doesn't stack and has inherent problems, what with having to load her up with tonics or keep her below max HP to use a vulnerary (which is difficult to do without getting her outright killed).
@@topazbennett95 No, it matters a lot, a PP unit who has to rely on Luna procs to have comparable (comparable, not better, comparable) damage to, say, Warrior Etie makes Etie strictly better, Luna sucks in Engage, it's the most ludicrously overrated skill I've seen, it's good on a unit with high dex who EPs a lot of enemies, it's genuinely shit on an archer.
Alycryst relies on Luna Crits to do anything endgame, he's not a good unit long-term relying on RNG for any kind of damage, requiring speed-fixing (he has like 2-3 speed more than Etie, I don't know why people act like this isn't a big problem for him, his speed lead is completely insignificant.)
I've only used either once on a Fixed Maddening pt, both on the same run, both as flunky units who weren't heavily invested into, not shown lots of favouritism outside of getting Etie to 10 and Master Sealing both, they got master sealed at the same time, beginning of chapter 12.
Alycryst was worthless and horrible to get to level 5, at which point he still was never a unit I could rely on so he never did anything impactful, I ended up using him as a Byleth +speed bot for a bit before deciding I'd rather use Zelkov and dropped him, terrible, Etie didn't steam-roll shit but she killed fliers without needing a Luna proc and could heavily damage enemies for chip or finishing them off, could make use of Merciless in conjunction with a Fracture staff to kill Wyrms, and provided chain-attack damage, Alycryst was worthless, Etie was decent though not worth the investment to get her to level 10.
Alycryst is a bad long-term unit, he's the most overrated unit in this game, he should not be used past chapter 11, if anyone chooses to use him over, say, Fogado I don't understand those people in any way.
Alycryst main advantage over Etie is not Luna but his personal class being a not **** Sniper. This gives him 20 range astra. Luna by itself doesn't close the strength gap by itself as it barely brings his damage on par with a Warrior Etie against lower defense units and is too inconsistent otherwise.
You can run luna with a crit build which is not bad as Luna is generally better then +10 crit.
@@boredomkiller99 Astra Luna is a meme, a good Radiant Bow user can do anything Astra Luna does but better lol. 20 range Luna is overkill anyway and Lyn on a unit who doesn't EP is a massive fucking waste, seriously Lyn on Alycryst is genuinely a horrible choice, speed surge a unit who dominates everywhere like Ivy or Wyvern Kagetsu.
I think this is a case of people who used her on Normal/Hard and she turned out good vs people who used her on Normal/Hard and she didn't take off and Maddening with fixed growths. If she gets blessed levels, then of course she's gonna be an amazing unit.
Early game, Etie gets Sigurd then moves over to Lyn later, the momentum damage is a big diff early game and just safely does damage with a long bow.
Boucheron however, he really pops off hard with just the heroes axe early game and moves into Well axe, tomahawk, and brave axe later; especially if you master seal him into warrior as soon as he is level 10 [needs bow proficiency] (does not function like panette/amber because he is a speedster axe wielder rather than a nuke) and later can second seal him into axe griffin knight at any point so that he can naturally double anyone while using the strongest axes in game.
Between his passive, high base strength, and axe might this make him a lethal threat all game and his very high dex growth goes well with a crit axe like the Well Axe with a crit engraving. Even sweeter with axe power which I never used. Perfect ring is Chrom, but really anything is good on him that is not Lucina (Lucina will proc his passive without set up) or magical rings (Eirika would be pretty good especially if you build him for a brave axe build to quad with eirika ring on).
Boucheron is an actual S tier unit, great passive, great base stats, really high growths, and he is one of the first units that you get in the game.
Etie is like B tier at best that can function like an S tier unit if you know what you are doing with her.
I want this video to be a series about all bad units
Hey! Interesting video. I totally agree with your take on Etie, and think your C tier placement of her the other day was fair. I also agree that comparing her to Amber/Panette is more useful than to Alcryst. At the end of the day she’s just a slightly weaker/more inaccurate/lower bulk/lower build version of them, with a little bit more raw speed. She has at best average early game contribution so she won’t snow ball without concerted effort, and one of the worst personal skills in the game.
If I could offer one (fairly major) criticism: I think the specific unit comparisons you made with your in-game demo are wildly inaccurate. In short your Etie is considerably under levelled and under invested in relative to the units you’re comparing her to. Based on her stat line I’m like 95% sure she’s got an internal level of ~26, while your Panette and Merrin are sitting up around IL 31 (not to mention that I think you’ve given Merrin an energy Drop and Seraph Robe). Unless you’ve spent SP on a skill that you don’t have equiped then she has spent a good portion of the game without an emblem ring. Her bond level with Lyn is 9, compared to Merrin’s 19 with Sigurd. The money and ore you’ve spent on upgrading Etie’s weapons pales in comparison to what you’ve spent on Panette’s Brave Axe +4 and Merrin’s Silver Sword +3. If you’re playing on fixed growths and she is actually the level you claim, then she should have 32 base strength and 21 base speed. If you’d used Lyn on her a fair bit then you could easily have her at bond level 19-20. So if we account for the apparent 5 level difference, the extra bond levels, give her a weapon with similar resources invested and spend some more SP on her, she actually performs fairly well.
As an example: with her previously established base 32 str and 21 spd and bond level 19-20 Lyn, the same speed +3 skill as she has and a Killer Axe+5 with the Lyn engrave, Etie will double most enemies in that chapter with a few stacks of Speedtaker, and all of them at max stacks. She’ll have somewhere between an 85% and 95% chance to Crit them once, so will one round just about every enemy in the chapter most of the time. Then if you actually spring for a decent skill like Lunar Brace she absolutely trucks everything in the chapter. I’m not sure how realistic getting that skill on this save file is, you initially say that it’s a pre-well save but then also say you should have plenty of SP books laying around.
None of that is to say that Etie is good; as you very aptly pointed out, just about everything can be fixed and the above example is predicated on using a highly contested emblem ring. But I do think it’s worth pointing out, because using such a blatantly imbalanced comparison in the video honestly at best makes you look a bit incompetent (ie don’t understand the numbers) or at worst straight up disingenuous, and either way it doesn’t help justify your otherwise valid stance RE Etie.
TLDR; your overall assessment of Etie is pretty accurate IMO, the unit comparisons in the video are completely bogus, not sure why you made them.
Impressive work, Detective.
I was actually wondering why her dex was so low, and was afraid that it was because Warrior was really just that bad on her. But if it's just that she's underleveled, then i won't be dissuaded from doing Warrior Etie on my next run.
@@shannonjones8877 Aha thanks. I mean her dex is still quite low, even when you assume parity in levels, but as mentioned it can be mostly fixed with a Lyn engraving, which is fine to use particularly on axes, and particularly if the best thing to go for is a Crit build anyway.
Leveling from 26 to 31 won't change much on fixed mode, even if her growth rates were 100% in everything but BLD she would have slightly better stats. 60% STR growth in fixed leveling up 4 times is 2.4 STR levels for example, her dex growth is 40% roughly so 1.6 dex points etc.
She had engravings/forges previously but was struggling too much to do anything with them. She would be better on axes but many claim she is good enough to 1 round consistently on bows and Lyn is a highly contested emblem a lot of units want, she could go speed taker/axe power route but would need kills to get to doubling thresholds consistently, while faster units using speed taker would start doubling most things and be able to double high SPD enemies with speedstacking
@@IcedCoffeeGaming Hey, appreciate the response (and am legitimately impressed by how many of these comments you do get back to; that’s a lot of work).
RE the character stats:
I tend to use the Triangle Attack average stats calculator, in my experience it’s pretty accurate (will post a link at the bottom of this comment). So the 32 str and 21 spd I’ve used in my example are taken from an Etie that has levelled to 15 in sniper after being master sealed at 10, then to 9 in Warrior. This is what you’ve stated you’ve done in the video, and conveniently puts her at IL 31, which is ~the same as the other two characters mentioned. You’re right though, in the previous example the strength isn’t all that important, it’s the few points of speed that matters.
RE the Bows v Axes thing: in the above example you can actually change out Killer Axe with the Lyn engrave for Killer Bow with the Eirika engrave, in which case you drop 1 damage, but gain 1 AS, keep the same Crit chance and gain a bunch of accuracy. Now that I’m thinking about that might actually be the better play, she keeps flier damage, appreciates the accuracy, it keeps her more out of harms way (although I guess with Alacrity that doesn’t matter as much), is the same monetary cost but a less contested engraving.
RE the Speedtaker/base speed thing: In the previous example Etie has 29 base speed with the Killer Axe and 30 with the Killer Bow. With the 30 AS on the Killer Bow she doubles Zephia, the warriors, berserkers, sages, high priests, snipers, generals and wyrms from that chapter without any stacks of Speedtaker, which is actually not too bad. Now, this is just a snapshot of her performance, and I’m definitely not about to go through and check her doubling thresholds against all the enemies in the game but my initial gut reaction is to assume that it’s probably not all that much work to have her doubling the non-speedster units, at least from the point that you slap Lyn on her. As I mentioned before, I totally agree that being reliant on Lyn, or using both of your skill slots for speed fixing in order to double most things throughout the game is not good, and is definitely a point against Etie, but if you’re going to commit to giving her Lyn, she’ll probably be just fine.
Sorry if the end of my previous comment seemed a bit harsh (it probably was). I actually have really enjoyed your content on this game and TS last year (that game was sick, I wish they’d make a second). I usually agree with most of the things you say, and you’re quite entertaining to boot which is nice. It’s just that your comparisons in this case seemed really lopsided which just makes you look biased. I’ll reiterate: I’m not some Etie fan boy, I honestly have no horse in this Etie v Alcryst race. I agree she belongs in probably high C tier, maybe low B. I just find these unit comparisons really interesting, and fun to talk about.
fe17.triangleattack.com/average_stats
Etie only seems bad to you because you hate archers. If you didn't have this Archer aversion, you wouldn't be talking shit on her strength. Rebecca, Neimi, Rolf, and many other early game archers you've gained through out the series, have always had low STR. They tend to suck because of it, but Etie's higher strength makes her not one of those. It's not "Etie has the highest strength in your army" It's "Etie has abnormally good STR for an Archer" That's what matters with the STR.
Now for the real discussion. Lyn is probably the 6th best Emblem, that might seem high, but the game very often lets you run only 8. At best it lets you run 14. The unit holding the 6th best Emblem is barely making it into the upper half of units. Letting Etie have Lyn is not that big of a deal. Let's move onto a side thing first.
Units have class types, and those types get special benefits from Emblems, the best benefits usually go to Dragon, however in descending order it goes Dragon>Covert>Armor/Flying>Backup/Mystical>Cavalry. Calvalry fucking sucks, Covert is fucking awesome, this is contrary to how players have felt about these class types through out the years. If I asked you to rate the class types before engage I imagine you'd say something like Cavalry>Flying>Backup>Mystical>Armor>Covert. Most would at least.
Okay so now that we got that covered, let's go over Lyn. Lyn has 2 effects for Dragon, they're pretty decent. Now You have 1-4 Dragon units, but mostly you have 1, that 1 is someone most don't even want to use, but lets say you don't hate the char and you bother to use Alear as more than a liability. There are better options for her, like Marth or Lucina. Maybe even a Dragon Vein user. Lyn is okay but she is better fit for 1 other class type. Covert, you lose the extra double, you gain 5 Astra Storm range. Covert has absurd avoid, clones have 1 hp. You could use a flying unit to boost clone avoid by 10, it's not awful, or you could use a Covert, to make the clones near invincible and take away the weakness of a 2-3 range unit.
A Warrior Etie, using Lyn, is fucking worthless. She doesn't doesn't defend the clones, she doesn't need them, she doesn't get increased range, she doesn't even have an effect, further more she gets no benefit from the Engage weapons, unlike an Archer Etie would.
There is 1 more small thing to this. An issue players like you have, more aversion to things that may have been weak previously but here goes. Brave and Killer Bows (and most other weapons) are better than Silver Weapons. Assuming you can use a Brave Bow without being weighed down, It does 9 * 4 compared to a Silver Bows 19 * 2. Now that seems like Silver win, it's 38 > 36 however when put on your 30 STR Etie, you get 39 * 4 = 156, put Silver Bow on her and you end up with 49 * 2 = 98. Resistances will factor in to mitigate this massive gap, but unless you're attacking an armored unit, which you likely doomed against anyways, you should find Brave is better.
Now the harder one to convince you on. Killer is also better. It may seem less consistent, but it doesn't usually matter. If a 30 STR Etie wields a Killer Bow giving 12 MT (Idr the cap for this one) that's 42 damage, lets say enemy have 15 defense and 45 HP, I think that's common, Idr. 42 - 15 = 27 * 2 = 54, Etie kills without a crit, and if she crits she doesn't get counter attacked. Now Silver, 49 - 15 = 36 * 2. Etie doesn't one shot, she DOES do more damage, but unlikely to crit, she will probably take a counter attack, and her excess damage won't matter.
These types of calculations are weird, because they work better the stronger the weapons and units are. So if you nerf your Etie, and if you then want to see which is better before upgrading 1 so you compare the 2 at +0. You're going to find that the opportunity for Silver bow to 1 round and Killer to not, is much higher. However as you progress the weapons, you will find that goes way down and the benefits of a crit work really well. Technically this argument is made better if you're not using Lyn, as Alacrity does the same shit a crit does, but it's just worth noting either way, the bows Etie should use are Brave > Killer > Silver. Silver requires conditions to be pretty harsh to beat out either and they rarely happen, and when they do happen, they almost never matter.
If you want Etie to be strong, you want a Covert Etie, using Lyn, and equipped with an upgraded Brave Bow, with a Killer Bow, Longbow and maybe even Mini Bow in inventory. If you really hate Archers that much, or you really love Lyn that much that you need her on another unit. Use Lucina on Etie. She's going to rely a lot more on your positioning with this, and her crits are going to happen way less but, she can Bonded Shield, and then her high range will give her counter attacks to protect herself, unlike say a Framme would have. She'll also be a far more available unit for backup attacks due to Longbow range. It's not as strong as Lyn Etie, but nobody expects a guy who hates Archers to have a good one. Lucina also fixes your specific issues of missing far more than you should and being a worthless warrior, which lets you get a tiny boost in range to Engage Attack. Even though I still maintain Sniper > Warrior.
Making an assertion that I hate archers doesn't make it true. I will run anything that works well.
Anyone can be reclassed into anything, so this notion that 40% STR growth in a game with multiple units with better base STR/STR growth being a standout factor is kind of a meme. Her starting stats are terrible and her ONLY good stat is STR and it isn't even close to the highest of the cast.
Warrior Lyn Etie is "The Build" her users often cite as being 1round city so that is what I ran. People claim this unit can with normal levels of investment, pop off on warrior using bows and this is the result.
"If you want Etie to be strong, you want a Covert Etie, using Lyn, and equipped with an upgraded Brave Bow, with a Killer Bow, Longbow and maybe even Mini Bow in inventory."
Why not just uses axes/axe power? If anything her warrior route on axe power is the only way to salvage her into getting consistent 1 rounds.
On Sniper Lyn she was not doubling anything thorughout all the middlegame chapters and had poor hitrates/damage. She has more problems than solutions and requires way more effort to get online. Panette in this case also has much higher base STR as she always will but with other stats that are better. The brave axe lunar brace is kind of a suboptimal Panette build anyways, it doesn't require speed stacking though. Ultimately without using Meals/Tonics/other nonsense most people skip, Etie won't be doubling consistently even on Lyn.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming See this is what I mean though, you dismiss bows, and say why not axes. Players like you, and understandably so, feel that Bows are bad weapons, you'd rather use an Axe, which has 1-2 range instead of just 2 or just 1 range. It makes sense, it's logical, but bows do have some strengths and if you're using an archer, you appreciate those strength, or you just like the theme.
As for why you don't with that build though, there is no Covert with Axes. That's not a thing and the build is about abusing how well Lyn works on Covert, more than any other class type. She will partially fix the biggest issue for bows with her shadow clones and add a lot of range to Astra.
In order to use Axe, you have to give all that up and then, there becomes no point, the whole idea falls apart. Snipers still aren't a top tier class, but this game has made massive improvements for them via Lyn, improvements you've ignored because Warrior has Axe. When you look at the game that way Etie, really is nothing special.
So, i'm running Lance Bow Knight Sigurd!Etie, and honestly, the way you spoke about using Alcryst is pretty much how i use her. Mainly as a utility unit that safely puts dmg on a target and debuffs with Draconic Hex.
So, for the sake of reference, here's what she's looking like going into ch 24:
Lv 10/20/11 Lance Bow Knight
HP 48 (Seraph Robe)
STR 29
MAG 2
DEX 32 (4 from Sigurd)
SPD 28
DEF 17 (4 from Sigurd)
RES 23 (Talisman x2)
LCK 22
BLD 9 (3 from Sigurd)
Draconic Hex
Lance Agility 2
Slim Lance+5 (Sigurd)
Steel Bow+3
Radiant Bow+4
Longbow
Iron Greatlance+3
Generally speaking she just avoids physical threats as much as possible due to not having the bulk to really deal with them. Sigurd giving her mov+1, Momentum, and Canter+ synergizes well with her goal of safely getting in and out. The bld boost also helps a bit with Longbow and Radiant Bow. She doesn't generally have hit issues as her dex is pretty on par with the rest of the team, but Careful Aim is still there just in case (for the sake of comparison, my lv 13/20/9 Warrior Boucheron has 31 dex compared to her 32; my lv 10/20/11 Alfred also has 32 after 2 Skill Books and 4 from Lyn; my lv 19/19 Hortensia has 43 after 1 Skill Book and getting +10 from Lucina).
To be fair, her STR isn't lacking either at 29; Alfred is at 31 after an Energy Drop, Bouch is also at 31 after getting 4 from Ike, and lv 20/1 Rosado is at 30 after 3 from Celica. So even with no outside str investment only Alfred can match her before accounting for additional investment.
I'd say she's fine imo. Her hitrates are serviceable, her dmg output keeps with the rest of the team, she can bait mages if necessary. She still does her job on maddening.
Her defense is just unacceptable to me for a combat unit and she doesn’t have another stat to really make up for it.
On fixed her strength was 23 in Warrior by Panette's chapter st 11/4 Warrior I believe, that's one below Pannette in Warrior.
She isn't a front-liner, she's an archer, her durability doesn't matter, position her better.
@@FUTBALLZAK It actually does matter. Considering her lackluster speed, and bulk, and build, it limits what you can attack. It also limits her margin for error, and considering her low dex, that’s not a good problem to have.
@@goroadachi9489 It doesn't, her speed is like 2-3 points lower than Alycryst, this is the most overplayed advantage ever, she usually won't be ORKOed and as a Warrior she has 1-3 range, it is extremely rare she won't be able to attack something without counter, as for her low dex that literally doesn't matter, there are so many hit engravings.
Man when did people start giving so many shits about dex/skill, especially in a game that gives you so many tools to deal with it, this ain't FE6 my guy.
@@FUTBALLZAK Those two to three points matter when it comes to tanking hits. It wouldn’t be a problem if she had good build but she doesn’t have good build. So in reality those 2-3 points can easily turn into 4-5 points. And she is quite easily ORKO’d because unlike other slow units, she has terrible HP/Def/Res.
@@FUTBALLZAK And of the hit engravings that can be used, you shouldn’t give her Marth because it’s literally one of the best in the game
Not gonna give her Lyn because of the substantial might drop and Lyn’s use on crit builds
Not Lucina because you want that on a dodge tank or a unit that can make use of the avo bonus
Leif and Byleth which also increase the weight of her weapon
And Eirika which is also better suited for crit builds
Alcryst can pop off with just Eirika and a brave bow. You need so much more investment for Etie to pop off. Now. Would Alcryst appreciate more? Sure. Give the brave bow a crit engrave. Give him Speedtaker, swap out Eirika for Claude Bond Ring, make sure he has Lunar Brace inherited. Then yeah, he will definitely be at his strongest. But he can get by with just Eirika and a Brave Bow and still decimate his target.
Exactly what I was thinking. If Eirka is available Alcryst doesn't need to reclass into warrior to be powerful which is usually what Etie supporters use to back her up.
@@supervolcanobladerharris131 I had one person say that they have Etie reclass, use a highly contested engrave, use Lynn or Marth, and they MUST engage to kill something. That is a LOT of resources just to get a kill. My Alcryst can one round Corrupted Wyrms, Generals, and Great Knights using just a Brave Bow and Lunar Brace. 2 resources compared to 4. Is it somewhat RNG dependent? Sure. But when you hit 4 times for 30+% proc rate, that rng really isn’t a big deal.
In one of my runs, my Warrior Etie had like 3 different bows with an enchant each while using Lyn and she still struggled so hard compared to my other units. Her missing on griffins made my opinion of her drop a lot, I even had bow focus on her, so I really just would rather use Alcryst and Fogado for low investment. TBF I didn't use much of the characters she supported with, but yeesh inaccuracy as a warrior was not fun. I think keeping her as a Sniper should still let her fulfill her anti-air role, but as a Warrior she's gonna lose that role for axe usage. Sniper + Killer Bow w/ Crit Enchant and call it a day, no need to go Warrior.
Boy, was it fun for my Etie with warrior strength as a sniper to ctrl+alt+delete targets with a killer bow.
The REAL truth about Etie, just from talking with her for any length of time, is that she wants to be Berserker. Once I gain a new dedicated bowman like Fogado, she'll get the classed into the job she has been auditioning for all early game. 😊
While I do agree that Pannet is better than Etie, I don't think that damage comparison between those two was quite accurate in this video: basic Etie with +3spd an basic weapons versus Panette with lunar brace, axe power 2 and brave axe+4 with Ikes engraving will understandably be looking quite weak, even if their initial defference in strengh is 5.
I understood quite quickly that it will be quite difficult to make Etie double reliably, so instead I focus on improving her damage and hit rate, making her backline support that can help someone else to kill.
he explains verbally that even accounting for weapon upgrades, potentially having +4 more strength, etc on Etie would still only add up to below half the hp of that archer
Tbh I use her as a sniper with Sigurd, a forged bow, speedtaker, and whatever other skill you want.
It's just nice to have her be flier and calvary utility with decent strength and effective damage plus canter and avoid bonus on terrain.
Maybe not ideal but fun and a hardly contended position
@@mrjeeble364Pannette will deal five more damage with the same bow, which will still be low
@@grigoriiprimushko8687 don’t know where you’re getting that? Panette was dealing 30 damage per hit of a brave axe +4 which is only 10 might weapon, vs Etie using an unforged silver bow for 14 damage a hit which has 13 might. Also accounting for the fact he hasn’t invested in Pannette by much vs over investing in Etie, and still accounted for other ways to increase her damage where she still wouldn’t one round even if she doubled vs Pannette who could with a lower might weapon hitting twice
Panette used a brave axe+4 with Ikes engraving, which has the same might as silver bow. She also recives + 9 damage from axe power 2 (+4) and lunar brace (20% of 27 def is around 5 damage). Without those she will deal 21 damage in one hit, leavig archer with 31/52 hp and 36/57 hp, which is also not looking too good. She will also not double without a brave axe, since her speed GR 40% in warrior.
Etie with the same arsenal as Panette will deal 25*2 damage with the same axe (28 str, + 13 might of a Ike engraved brave axe, + 2str of a bond ring, + 4 from axe power2 +5 from lunar brace), making her 2 damage away from killing sniper (which can be reached with a strengh tonic) and 7 damage away from killing hero (which can be reached with a strengh tonic and a chain attck).
I agree that Panette is better suited but I wanted to see how worse Etie's performance is with the same tools
Oh well, she was my hard carry in my second maddening run even though I know others could’ve done it better. She was ORKO armored units with a Marth engraved killer bow post chapter 20. I ran Sigurd on her early on until I got lyn then lyn the rest of the game.
It’s also worth noting that I ran her alongside the Bouch on brave axe build with axe power 5 😂 Team Firene
Recently did a Firene only run (+Framme);
I had Etie as a longbow bowknight debuffer with dracohex and Canter and it’s decent.
She still gets one-rounded but more movement keeps her out of the way.
Side note: Greatlance Louis + Edelgard is disgusting.
On maddening?
Funnily enough i was wanting to do a Lythos + Firene (ft. Seadall) run next. So you were able to beat it with a team of 9 units?
@@shannonjones8877
Ye, on maddening with some DLC / no starsphere. I haven’t done the final stretch for that file just yet.
This guy basically says that when I win with Etie I'm better than him.
wot
playing on hard mode, 130+ hours in
currently on chapter 23 and Im not gonna move forward until all my characters are capped 😂...... #ImBurnedOut
Etie is only good in the chapter she comes in after that she gets demolished by every other enemy she is suppose to be good against. When I say demolished I mean she can't kill the fliers in chapter 4 and dies to them in one engagement. STR means ntn if u can't survive getting hit.
So like just give her a steel bow.
Like her strength base is as good as Alycryst who one-shots fliers until chapter 11.
The only differene is he has a steel bow,.
Lmao.
Also she's a PP unit, her squishiness is nbd because your archers shouldn't be getting attacked. Position her better.
At this point, there's nothing more entertaining than reading comment section on Etie fans trying to justify she's not a low to below mid tier unit. She's not even a good character, I've watched all her support conversations and only with Pannette that she doesn't talk about muscle or workouts (it's the only one that is interesting). Like she's truly a definition of 1 dimensional character if anything.
Hey, resident Etie fanboy here. (Used her on 6 Maddening runs)
Respectfully, I feel like your confirmation bias is hijacking your ability to use Etie efficiently. She doesn't *need* Lyn. She just needs Lyn's speedtaker and spd +3. If used the entire run, she's capable of one rounding most late game enemies with a +3 silver bow. She doesn't even need Warrior either, Bow Knight is perfectly fine. (She prefers Warrior tho)
Also if ur not gonna compare her to Alcryst then you really shouldn't compare her to Panette either.
Like don't get me wrong it's okay to not like her bro but don't say she's worse than your combat carries when you aren't even using her as much as them.
Silver bow isn't a good weapon, you can get any unit 1 rounding with enough speed and damage fixing. Etie's best results are worse than other units average result with less effort.
Etie's use case :
To be used to do Tiki's paralogue right when it opens up.
The end.
That's what I did
The way etie fans willing to do to make her work but then upselling it as great unit effortlessly.
Also who did start the Alcryst vs Etie comparison? The most silly thing is that Alcryst, in his bow only class compared against warrior etie (not sniper etie) lol. Warrior is axe & bow class and already one of the best class with high base str and growth. It's just not a comparison to begin with
It turns out she has 15% STR growth on Sniper so only 5% less SPD/STR growth on Sniper vs War, but 20% more dex, and even so she is at Alcrysts base Dex being level 30 something
@@IcedCoffeeGaming yeah sniper has deceptively ly good growths, but Etie in sniper will lose 4 strength base and 3 build. In my mind that +3 build is so important for her because even after I promoted her to sniper she can't wield her bows without losing speed. She has low build and that's not aligned with her characterization at all
Technically she will only lose 1.5 BLD because 5 is from her base and 5% is from Warrior Zerker has 10% warrior has 5% BLD
No what I meant warrior vs sniper base class build. Warrior base stat has 3 more build than sniper. So Etie on sniper will have harder time wielding her bows compared to warrior etie
@@yohanes2034 Yeah one of Warriors biggest benefits is the flat out +3 build that most characters benefit immensely from.
Okay but what about mage canoneer? Then all she needs is divine pulse and easy viability. I mean sure, you can do that to any unit but she looks pretty good in the outfit and that's all that matters.
Mage cannoneer scales it's damage not with strength. But with dex, and it's accuracy is a combination of Strength and Build.
She is not a great Mage Canon
"I prove my point right here and now!"
*proceeds to use an underleveled Etie for the chapter, have zero passives, zero engraves, a bad weapon*
On Maddening in this game if the unit is not properly taken care of the whole game then they will suck for late game, you end up over using the characters you like way more subconsciously so now you have a bias view of certain units. Amber and Panette are going to be better warriors slightly, but if you properly set Etie to succeed (and this is without over investment, it is just a normal baseline level of investment for a carry) then it is irrelevant and she does the same thing the other two can do.
Alcryst just sucks.
You missed the entire point of the video. Yes, she can be fine if you invest in her, but every other unit does it better with less investment.
Also Luna crit procs go BRRRRRRR!
@@ShaggyLad They do not do it better, they do the same job with the same amount of investment
@@MasterStacona Well lets see, you have units that double and kill, which is better than Etie, you have units that can actually rank a hit, which is better than Etie, and units that can actually hit things, once again better than Etie
@@MasterStacona They do. Her in-game base stats, growths, and personal skill are there for you to see. She's a mid unit with her only redeeming factor being a good strength growth and that's it. If you don't want to admit it, that's on you man.
The main benefit of using Etie over Panette and Alcryst is Canter. Panette has to wait 5 chapters to get it, and Alcryst needs 500 SP in two chapters. Etie needs 700 SP in 6 chapters + 2 paralogues, which is easy with any Emblem. This frees up SP books for other units, but was much more important before the Well was introduced.
She also contributes in every run for multiple early chapters, which is more than some characters can say. But yeah Amber utterly outclasses her in every way, she’s a low B/high C tier unit at best.
Part of the Alcryst comparison is some people saying you can use Etie as a utility archer for fliers. And then it's easy to point at Alcryst who does the same role better. And it comes up a lot because there are just a lot of Etie stans.
Oh look, another one is here, and this is exactly why it never dies. Like the video says, Alcryst is largely plug-and-play, Etie is a project. Trying to deny the level of investment she needs to get working does you no favors.
@@PetraMacneary This just isn't true. If you're willing to go the extra mile with both of them, and rank them that way I can see a world where Etie is slightly better, but why? Neither one in a practical run deserves it, and Alcryst can get away with a lot less, basically he just wants a brave bow and Eirika. Also, nice appeal to authority there, get back to me when I care about Mekkah's opinion on Engage. Good job living up to being the typical Etie stan.
@@PetraMacneary You know, I will say if you're taking either one to last map, you are absolutely correct, and both need a lot of help to perform, but so do many other even better units by this point. What I'm talking about is through the majority of the rest of the game, Alcryst gets the utility archer job done with not much effort needed while Etie is, in my opinion, a hassle to use that needs constant babying, mostly because of her poor bulk and spotty accuracy for a payoff that's only marginally better. Etie's slight advantage in availability is offset by the fact the early maps are kind of a joke anyway. I'm not at all salty, but I will concede I was rude and for that I do apologize and thank you for the discussion.
@@PetraMacneary getting Etie to level 10 by the time Alcryst join is the definition of babying and favoritism. There's only few fliers map before chapter 7 unless you play Tiki paralogue.
Also I bet you're running Etie warrior vs Alcryst in his unique bow only class? The fairer comparison is Etie in sniper class cause warrior requires second seal and in that class she gets +3 build and +4 str automatically from sniper. I remember trying to run Etie in sniper and how difficult it was speed wise and even str wise was not that impressive.
As mentioned, putting Etie in warrior is not a right comparison to Alcryst. Because warrior is axe class unit that can shoot flier occasionally. Hence why there're better comparisons such as Amber, Pannette, etc. if you reclass her to warrior
@@PetraMacneary warrior is not bow unit, it's mainly axe unit that can occasionally shoot enemies. So bow unit only is at disadvantage just by role wise because he can't enemy phase. It's funny how etie fans trying to compare alcyst but comparing them in a different class roles. Etie in warrior will have no dex to hit fast fliers and no build in sniper. So either way a bad unit. While alcyst in his unique class will accurately kill any flier and could occasionally kill non flier with Luna proc. Lv 10 by chapter 7 is like hard carries, I can only manage to get Alear or Chloe past lv 10 in ch. 7. There's no way to get Etie to Lv 10 just by shooting flier and doing chip damage, unless you set up kills for her (or play tiki paralogue).
So I totally agree with coffee tier list, she is C tier and he is in B tier.
you ever try warrior boucheron with lyn ring? i tried it on maddening with berserker boucheron and he was not only able to consistently wuad with brave axe but with eirika engraving he had perfect hit with chances to crit every time. Alacrity makes bouche quad begore the enemy can counter attack and the doubles can not only draw aggro but cause chain attacks so boucheron can proc his passive. his massive hp and added speed also makes him easy to handle foes on enemy phase. I like to run lunar brace and canter, but ax power could be run over canter and bocuheron will be able to delete anything in the game consistently but i didnt want to invest to heavily into him in my maddening run
Warrior Bouche makes sense, I am trying him on Wyvern right now
@@IcedCoffeeGamingyou should try out Lynn build warrior boucheron eventually with eirika engraving (for hit and crit) eventually, ill try to explain why lynn is especially good on bouche specifically (on warrior).
wyvern definitely is solid as well, the only issue is that the build is lower and the strength is much lower so the brave axe suffers as a result which is what boucheron specializes in for getting +8 true damage from his passive when it procs. I think Boucheron should go all in on brave axe to make him reach his full potential and wyvern lord just makes him solid and alright but limits him from being an insanely busted nuke with respectable bulk.
With one level of lunar brace with canter and an eirika engraving my berserker bouche was able to one round maddening wyrms with a brave axe (with one back up unit activiating his special). He takes them down to from 60 to 18 health normally but alacrity allows room for 20% crits within those four hits which maked him quite lethal since a crit goes off.
I leveled berserker to 20 before swapping to warrior so i can have a ton of attack and build to work with before i went to warrior and boucheron just kept onerounding most enemies while having over 90 % accuracy in most cases. I was thinking if i actually invested into him and gave him ax power 5 and lunar brace + hed destroy everything with lynn and not even need crits to kill.
On playerphase his damage becomes absurd, 4 hits getting true damage from passive, true damage scaled off of defense, and multipliers from ax power make him hit way to hard.
On enemy phase his high hp and speed make him impossible to get one rounded by an enemy unless hes a flier. Framme also has an A support with Bouche which makes him a perfect bondage shield user as well. This gives him a unique niche that other axe units dont have, they dont have the speed or build to quad with brave axe and no support with framme for bondage shield enemy phase.
On a future playthrough you might be pleasently surprised with berserk leveled warrior boucheron with lynn ring does on a maddening run, even with little skill investment he's a monster
I need to know how class growths interact with a character’s base stats.
If you grow Alcryst on Warrior and then put him back on Tireur d’elite after 20-30 levels, does he retain the strength (and build) difference between thèse classes ?
Or does it not matter what class you grow on, your stats will be recalculated to be the same.
I know for a fact Jean keeps some of these stats (grow him on cleric and switch him to great knight and he’ll hit the MAG cap on GK) but maybe that’s just because of his passive.
You can grow him on warrior and keep the stats
@@jimmybandme so the answer to the debate sNiPer EtIE oR TIrEuR d’ELitE AlcRyST is just Alcryst but grow on Warrior *mic drop*
Thanks for the info
@@MrMorflight even then Alcrest matches her DPS on average as Tier d elite, with simply having a bit more speed, and much more dex. As well as Luna. Simply being able to consistently hit, regularly crit, 1/3 of the time proccing Luna, and if you give him a brave bow he's at least matching Eties DPS, on top of his naturally high build and bulk and he's just overall a better unit.
The only real downside to Alcrest on Tier d Elite is Archer types only have Bows, and can't consistently Enemy phase, unless your running level 4 Lief on him.
I think it's a waste putting Alcryst as warrior for growth only as he will only get additional 1 pt str per 10 level up but you will lose 2 pts dex per 10 level up. Getting Luna proc imo is far more important for him later on
Eties biggest accomplishment on my first playthrough is having barely enough strength to oneshot fliers in her first chapter.
Etie fans are as rabid as Ilyana fans were back in the day. At least Ilyana has bexp Etie just sucks lmao
I want my money back
Well my comment got deleted and since I don't want to retype to the comment character limit here are clip notes. You don't see Etie preform because you are not really investing into her she is not hitting doubling thresholds with only speed +3 she has no offensive power increase, you compared her to Amber and Panette the latter of which is not only the best physical unit in the game as far as I am concerned but had Axe power vs speed +3. Feeding Etie a map of exp is not the benefit you make it out to be because of EXP scaling and even if it was characters in this game are more dependent on having an emblem and skills than having +3-5 levels. She was inaccurate so what, give her an engrave and she hits in the 90-100% range, no one is going to really take the Erika engrave if you really don't want to hand her the more fawned over engraves like Lyn (Yes I know you gave it to her in the video).
9:40 No it does not in optimized or fast play, ignoring warp skips, archers should simply not be enemy phased. If they are it is a mistake of the player not the unit, it is like saying Seadall has bad combat so bad unit. He is not made for combat the same way archers are not meant to take a hit, and hey through speed fixing she can avoid doubles and still take that hit or two, if you really want to play bad.
Also what level and class path is this Etie because the average strength of an Etie that was 10 archer/5 sniper/10 Warrior (level 25) is 27.3, so I have doubts on how much you actually invested into her. If you were being optimal you could have definitely done 10 Archer/20 Warrior/5 Warrior (level 35) at this point in the game for 33.5. While 6 attack won't do much in the way of killing in the example you gave she also again had no offensive skills had a zero stack speedtaker, and was using a +0 unrefined silver bow. And you yourself said that her high strength is negated or mitigated by the bad weapon strength on bows so why is she not using a Axe power build then.
Since I clearly see results I will give my build. DLC version Brave bow sniper with Lyn, Canter, and Weapon sync+ (basically bow power 3.5 in this case). No DLC has variants Claude bond ring and either Gentility/Lunar brace but use night/day to make Gentility into Bravery (so bow power 2.5) or just cut out the middle man and use Eirika the highest level of str+ from Roy. Congrats you now have with DLC a quad bow user with a shitty version of the power skills. Or with no DLC you have a 2-3 range bow user that either kills every non-armored unit or does 90-95% health, which might be seen as bad that she is missing kills, but hey just toss her a strength tonic and she goes back to one rounding most of the map. Also if you use the Claude ring you should have 100% up-time on the sniper passive against everything but thoron mages which you can just two shot with brave bow because of low bulk and avoid, not that it really matters because you can't really get 100% without wrath but a killer bow with 85% crit is still reliable just not guaranteed, I am assuming Dex gives her 5% crit the rest is 40% from +5 killer 30% from engrave and 10% from sniper.
She fell off hard in the middlegame and this is the result, even if I engrave her weapon and +3-4 it, she is too slow to 1 round even ON Lyn. On Axes she is worse than a lot of units, as for the results via DLC build, DLC starsphere enables anything to become a monster.
Even at 33 STR she lacks serious SPD, not to mention a mediocre middlegame where other units stomp, she would lag behind and struggle to perform on LYN. I also did literally feed her 90% of CH13 for example.
Since I did retype the comment I guess I left out the qualifier she is still pretty mid, better then Alcryst but both are pretty mid archers. One needs heavy RNG to copy Etie damage output, mostly. And the other is Panette at home.
Even without DLC though Lyn is enough of a steroid to allow "mostly" everyone to double. And Etie is not an exception to that. But even if she was she is a high strength unit hand her a brave weapon and if you really don't care to be fast give it Roy/Ike and she will hit benchmarks.
Lastly feeding an entire map to a unit is not all that impressive. Sure it shows extreme favoritism yes, but it give very little actual advantage unless the unit you fed was Jean/Anna in the early game. Why, because unless Etie or any other unit you did this for was underleveled at the time they will stop getting reasonable amounts of EXP per kill due to scaling of the resource.
i want her to be good so badly but even on hard she kinda just drops off and requires so much XP to stay relevant its not worth it and it sucks because i like etie so much but i'd just be better off running another random mage or a backup support unit
Thanks for this, agree with your points
Etie and Alcryst are both C tier fillers. You use them for 4-5 maps after their recruitment to shoot fliers and then they hit the bench. Long term, they're both terrible
Imo the early unit you want to train to shoot fliers long term is warrior Boucheron. He has enough strength to one shot griffins with an assist, enough speed to double wyverns (with speed + 4), and is tanky enough to use Ike. He's like 3 units in one slot, and also destroys the early game with Marth
Of course 100% crit Pannette is also amazing but you know that already
I legit don't care if people want to hate, I had no issues using Etie effectively as a Warrior in my Maddening runs. Do I think she's amazing? No, there are plenty of Warriors that can perform in the late game better than her. My position has always been that for how much she contributed to my runs, she deserves to be seen as a Mid to Low B Tier at worst, not spectacular but extremely workable. What people don't seem to get is that her strength IS THE SELLING POINT! Specifically the fact that she has abnormally high strength and growths for how early in the game you get to use her and how easy it is for her to get kills in the early game. It is way easier than many make it out to be.
Etie joins on Chapter 3 which has at least 5 fliers primed and ready for her to snipe. Chapter 4 has plenty of forts which restore HP to make up for any hits Etie may be eating so it is not hard to prioritize letting her get EXP on this map. Chapter 5 with Sigurd can allow her to hit and run pretty effectively, especially if she takes a shot and then hides behind Louis. Chapter 6 has a few fliers that can be shot down for easy EXP. You can do Jean and/or Anna's paralogues for more EXP. Chapter 7 has a ton of fliers which once again, Etie had no issues dealing with. Chapter 8 is yet ANOTHER MAP WITH A TON OF FLIERS and this is the chapter where you finally get to the first unit who you can make the case is a better Warrior candidate than Etie, in Amber.
The problem with the whole Amber > Etie argument is that Amber isn't very useful on the map where you get access to him whereas Etie is incredibly useful on the chapter you get Amber on. At this point, unless you really want to use Amber, there wouldn't be incentive to run him as he would likely be behind Etie level wise. At this point, Etie can easily gain Axe proficiency from Leif and become a Warrior. No joke, my Etie was easily 3 levels higher than Amber by the end of Chapter 8 and there was no reason to even consider using Amber as my Warrior.
The next chapter where you get a better Warrior candidate is Chapter 12 with Fogado, 4 CHAPTERS LATER. I get the fact that on paper, you simply look at a unit like Fogado and can say he's a better candidate for a Warrior than Etie. The issue is that you have to weigh Fogado and every other better Warrior candidate you can get later against the potential 4 chapters you could have had with Etie already being a Warrior who by this point could potentially have Merciless already unlocked. Personally, I value the extra levels and earlier access to Merciless more than I do having a unit who will outperform Etie in the long run because from experience, I know that they would only be marginally more effective.
With the power of the Well to help get skills quickly, it isn't hard in the least to craft an endgame viable Warrior Etie. Considering I had to use the Time Crystal more times because I overextended/gambled too much with Chloe in the early game than I did for Etie, I push back really hard against anyone who says it is too hard to keep her alive. If people don't have issues with Panette's frailty, then I don't see why it is so hard to keep Etie alive in the early game.
Finally, as to the argument against Boucheron I actually found it harder to keep him alive and get him Exp than Etie. Axes are simply not that accurate and even using the Heroes Axe, I find it more of a challenge to get him kills. His 70% hits, missed all the time and he was more useful being a backup, chucking Hand Axes for chip damage than he was for actually killing things. There was also the issue of once you get Anna who starts as a Backup unit using Axes like Boucheron, there is far greater ROI in prioritizing Anna kills over Boucheron. As a result he falls off pretty quick while Etie still remains useful as your early game archer.
I prefer fogado and panette as my archers to both of them so I don’t really have much experience with al or etie past the early game.
One argument for etie I’ve seen is that it’s easier to speed fix in this game than to strength fix, speed taker and speed +3-5 isn’t too hard to get thanks to the well, and a fair number of rings give speed. But like you said there are still options for damage too, the power skills are a lot more expensive but can be obtained, lunar brace is an option, etc. but speed is usually cheaper/ easier
Give Etie Lyn.
Etie is also immediately better than Alcryst, besides snipers sucks and Alcryst is just a different sniper.
Luna proc is just Etie's damage at base, Etie does Luna damage 100% of the time.
Weapons are Killer Bow, Tomahawk, Long Bow.
You can only run one high strength user per play through because only one Lyn.
Speed is irrelevant, Lyn will double regardless, just give passives with more damage and canter - even if it is momentum and canter.
Hit rates are fixed with engraves, very easy to fix in Engage.
Yes give her one of the best Emblems in the game and that will make her better, what a shock. Also you probably never want Etie holding an axe because you don’t want her touching the front lines. Also who says you can only run one high strength unit? That’s pretty restrictive. And if you can only run one, why should you run one who is objectively the worst? Also other better units can do better with the Engraves that fix hit.
@@goroadachi9489 Tomahawk is a 1-2 range weapon
You can only run one high strength carry because 2 will just have one be very lackluster while the other is actually carrying for your high strength warrior.
The other high strength and low speed users you can have are generals since they don't use speed anyways and provide the tanking role while dealing high damage with smash weapons (silver greatlance / silver greataxe) and Spear/Tomahawk as a ranged option.
The other physical damage carry will either be a carry Enchanter or Martial Master with Eirika ring and flashing fist. You can also give Boucheron a brave axe with eirika ring, but he can run most rings and carry with that.
i ran warrior Etie that is how i know she does the same thing as warrior Panette
@@MasterStacona With very low accuracy combined with Etie’s lackluster dex. And I hope you aren’t implying that she will need two accuracy engravings.
@@MasterStacona Also her build will have her already low speed become worse
@@goroadachi9489 if you are not using engraves on your carry then what are you doing...
Framme is very good for sage and mage knight.
A reason I compare Etie and Alcryst is to show that Etie is worse than him at her job and stat wise than him so even if you do train her she will be worse so why bother. Other units are better to compare stat wise as there are better archers than Alcryst. This video also shows how lucky my Etie was with her Warrior stats as a killer bow sniper who could one shot a lot of enemies. Though Alcryst was still better since he could double without speedtaker or any speed emblems so he got Eirika and broke the game. Maybe I got a little lucky there though.
Except she isn't really all that worse and is in many ways better if we are talking raw stats long term.
Sniper sucks for characters with innate bow proficiency so unless you use Alycryst in his personal both probably want to go warrior. In this case their speed difference is minimal and will fall into the same speed tier, well that and speed is easier to fix then most stats.
Likewise there are usually enough ways to fix hit rated but strength is one if the hardest.
Etie will hit consistently harder with Alycryst needing to trigger his personal to keep up and as the game goes in the gap widens.
However long term there really isn't a reason to compare them because neither really want to be in the same role.
Alcryst rather go his personal class for 20 range astra storm to lure out bosses or other tough enemies and run a crit/luna build. Luna itself isn't reliable but combine with a crit build and you are great.
Etie wants Warrior to fix her build and capitalize her strength so if anything she really competing against Amber or Panette who her only advantage is sliver bow which is nice since a +1 sliver bow is less resources then a +3 steel bow and let's you save resources for other forges.
Outside long term you are probably using both early on due to lots of fliers especially in Brodia making them mostly the same.
Hence both are relatively the same overall tier wise.
@@boredomkiller99 I figure with dlc its different but I don't truly feel like spending the time to train Etie when I've got Louis, Chloe, Alear, Celine to go before her. She even fights exp competition with the others if you want to train her as well. While your right about them being roughly the same combat wise this is only if your leveling between them is consistent. Also in warrior they are very close in power, but Alcryst can just be in his personal class if you plan to go a powerful brave bow build or the Astra Storm which I prefer other units to use Lyn though it is no doubt useful. With dlc I see there is plenty of exp to be gotten outside of Micaiah spam so it must be a different story there.
The question isn't who is better between Etie and Al, its that they're both bad compared to so many mid game unit who gets given a bow. I've used both and its literally all down to preference.
Do you want a waifu strong consistent archer or Al with Luna. Both ive ran woth Lyn ring, Both have similar results.
Bows are just kind of bad in general, not being able to counter at 1 range. As opposed to magic which can just do both 1 and 2 range and deal good damage to most enemies
@That Crystar Guy yeah, its a real shame they didn't give you any reliable 1-2 range bow or Close counter like they did in 3H
Can someone explain how to use Ivy? I've never felt super great about her. The only time I had success with her was in my first hard mode run with Lyn and Bolganone, but i needed to give her a lot of stat boosters and feed exp into her. Im definitely missing simethingbhere, but she's never felt useful in any of my maddening runs.
You could make her sage. But that's her main use case (the bolganone w/ lyn and maybe an accuracy engrave)
Consider this though: How are you distributing your EXP between combat units. If you have too many than it brings down average combat unit power since EXP is what powered them up. Idk how you do your runs but something to consider either way.
Ivy is a flying staffbot. She flies and uses staves. She has terrible speed so she'll never one round, but she can chip pretty well with Bolganone. She also has decent def and res so she can generally survive a hit, which is pretty useful. Flying reposition is amazing to cross 1-tile gaps. She's just a great utility unit with decent single hit damage on top of that
@@leoerus that's a good point. I play with DLC and usually have the Divine Paralogues done by the time Ivy joins. And I have most units running Starsphere, so her bases still tend to be behind the rest of my roster.
Bolganone +1/+2 with Lucina engraving, and then you can give her Byleth to fix all her stats and provide free Divine Pulse, she becomes a hard carry and when needed can easily getting into postion to dance for the otk on bosses. Inherit Speektaker then either Speed +5 / Speed & Dex +5.
If using Ivy as chip damage staff bot use Thoron :), also run Draconic Hex and now you're cooking, or momentum/magic+ if you t4 well a lot
If your going to over invest into a project unit just make it Jean
Look i think she's cute and her whole tomboy in a frilly dress is appealing but leave this noodle arm woman at home with vander unless you are willing to invest in this waifu.
If Etie wasn't a muscle girl with a nice design and a rough looking dude this reception for her wouldn't exist. All this other stuff came later as far as comparing her to other units.
Yeah that's what I think. The waifu-ism is why people try so hard to make her good.
@@cryguy0000 I don't think that's a bad thing either, but said people need to be honest rather than what's currently happening
Erie is a mid unit in my opinion
I said it in the past and I will say it again: you can evaluate units based on their theoretical late-game performance OR evaluate them based on their whole contribution through the entire run.
This is why Etie is useful as your sole early-game archer, but Bunet has no usecase because you don't have room in the team for him when he joins, specially since he is by far the worst unit that joins in Solm, time at which you get many of the best units like Pandreo, Panette, Merrin, Timerra, Hortensia or Seadall.
Of course she is bad in theoretical endgames, but she actually has a practical, time-limited usecase (same with Alfred and Clanne). In the entire game there are only 1, arguably 2 completely useless units: Bunet (undisputedly useless) and Vander (at least he has the niche of being a Jagen, but imo in this game you don't need one).
Bunet actually has a niche as one of the 3 best Mage cannoneers. (Excluding Kagetsu, because that's taking a S Tier unit and making them a B tier unit.)
Mage cannoneer scales dps with Dex, and accuracy with str and Build, and there's a unique niche Bunet fills with his incredibly high Luck stat, in that Divine Pulse is the best form of accuracy for Mage canoneers and he synergizes well with it.
Your Etie is massively underleveled for this chapter, no wonder she is not carrying... the inherited passives also suck. You set her up to fail...
No she's level 28-30 here same as most of my team
@@IcedCoffeeGaming everyone else has like 10 levels on her and the enemy level is like what level 38 or something for that map
you end the game at around level 40 ish territory and you are already near the end
Etie is B tier, but if you know what you are doing she performs the same function as Panette and Amber with no more investment than them
Chloe same thing, she is also B tier
FINALLY. SOME GOOD FUCKING FOOD.
@StormfallValkyri I disagree
@@DaniDoyle i CAANT ESCAPE EVEN HERE!!
Bunet with an ike engraving brave lance on halberdier would be better. Bunet gang rise up!
That said the only way I got Etie to work on Maddening was Momentum + Bow Knight. It's of course early investment but it's decent.
I think that is about as good as she can do base game no DLC, she can get into B tier territory but with heavy investment which is why I put her in C in the tier list
@@IcedCoffeeGaming Oh I agree! I just wish people gave Bunet more time to cook as an aside! I like Etie but as someone who plays offline no DLC it's rough. Like her but she is not easy to use.
The only thing I sort of disagreed with on your new list was Celine because she can be a staff bot and chipper as Vidame and the skills get gets from Marth are amazing. Sword agility and avoid go a long way on her and she is a great Byleth user as well.
I really think the Warrior classline is very overrated. Like, what's the point of high Strength without anything else to back it up?
It has good bulk and build which makes it's okay speed a lot better then other classes.
Mostly though it is due to strength being the hardest stat to fix.
Speed+ don't cost much, hit can be fixed in a lot of ways and the game being player focused and break means most units don't need high durability. But strength and damage in general is much harder to increase usually requiring pricey skills
Alcryst is better because of his badass sounding unique class i have a big lord bias ngl
This woman gives me a headache
not that woman, but her fans give me headache
Now here is the real question. Why use Etie and Alcrest... When Amber exists?
Brave bow in his personal class works wonders with Eirika....but Amber is just better for that role unless you want him in a different class.
Alcryst is a low-investment archer that does his job of killing fliers while occasionally getting big damage spikes with Luna, and he maintains that niche all throughout the game. Etie is statistically worse at being an archer than Alcryst and worse at being a high strength nuke than Amber for similar investment.