Response to "A Face to Face Event with Elder Cook" and "Saints" 9/9/2018
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2018
- The LDS church has recently made efforts to introduce a new narrative of their history that better reflects the full picture. While "Saints" is a step forward in that regard, it unfortunately fails to correct the simplistic rose-colored view of the past that has been portrayed for decades. I will explain why as I respond to the church's recent broadcast to young adults.
It wasn’t history that broke me. It was practicing its principles and my experience trying every day to be a good Mormon. I realized it wasn’t not making me happier. Only more depressed.
Finding this history just validated that my gut was right.
He didn't need the peep stone to translate the bible, he had Adam Clarke's work...
Reading the essays certainly did not deepen my appreciation for the church. Reading the essays helped free me from the Matrix. I'm not happy about the 37 years of lies I have just experienced. The commentary in this video is excellent, nice work, Mormon Informant, thank you!
As a former member of the LDS church, I appreciate this video tremendously. The level of cognitive dissonance that is required of members, is truly sad and disturbing. Literally EVERYTHING regarding the truth of the church is provable to be false and fraudulent. The glazed over look by these people while they give their sanitized and rehearsed answers that twist the truth, is very hard for me to stomach.
The two historians? It's called knowing who writes their paycheck.
The Church is totally hypocritical. They are doing what they do best and blaming victims. The real truth is that this church has been more than dishonest with it's history. The fact that the church has marketed this book as an 'accurate' version of the history of the church is testament to this. Those people who uncovered the actual history of the church, those who the church previously excommunicated, are the real heroes. It is because of them that the church is now publishing this new, 'accurate' history. And still, and still, they are telling it's members not to research the church online. Vile, wickedness.
That's a "LIE". It didn't say don't go online.
It said to beware that there are reliable sites and unrealiable sites.
Just like if you were warning your kids about soul destroying pornography sites.
So when you try to find the facts about something you go to fraudulent people or sites?
Oh yea, you do. Your believing the regurgitated cesspool of anti Mormon propaganda.
My bet is you hate Donald Trump as well, from watching fake news channels. Some people just can't stand seeing people happy or hearing the truth.
The real test is by their fruits yea shall know them.
I'm so glad that the Savior comes soon.
naya Donald Trump!!!! Are you seriously suggesting the Donald Trump is a decent man? Decent President?
He is crude, crass and devoid of any sense of morality, Christian or otherwise.
Do you think Jesus approves of his style of doing things? ‘Grabbing women by the pussy?’ Etc. He lies. He corrupts.
The Mormon Church lies. And then they try to say it was always so.
naya The internet? Sure, the church want you to visit ‘approved’ sites. But that’s the problem isn’t it. Those approved sites including the church’s own website don’t tell the truth. Only lies.
Okay, the church has now published this book and are now attempting to be a little more honest. But... listen to what I just sad... ‘the one true church is attempting to be a little more honest!’
Don’t you think that’s a crazy thing to have to hear?
Further, why are they being honest? Because so many people, me being one of the first, read materials and visited unapproved websites that had the good grace to disclose the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
And even now, the church cannot bring itself to admit everything.
Cannot practice what it preaches. To repent of wrong doing.
Like the adversary, continues to lie (like Donald Trump) even though the truth stares it in the face.
I’m not talking politics here. Not about liberalism or conservatism.
It’s about what is true and what is not true.
I grew up in this church from birth. Lived through the 60s to now. Served a mission. Everything. Gave up the best years of my life. I’ve seen for myself the massive changes in policy and doctrine bi spent the best years of my life defending doctrines the church has now accepted to be false.
A couple of times, I even risked death, at least serious harm defending this church.
So do not, try to paint me, someone you have never met, as some airy liberal who does not know his ass from his elbow.
I know exactly what I’m looking at. My leaving this church was not taken lightly.
I grew up a Mormon, loved being in the church, and every time I heard bits of history that didn't make sense, I'd sweep it under the rug. It became so bumpy, I had to fling it back to see what I really believed. What toppled the pile was the Book of Abraham that Joseph translated pagan funeral writings into the Pearl of Great Price, originals found in the Metropolitan Museum, not burned up in the Chicago fire. All the other questions under that rug started me on a path to find other church history that was glossed over. I began to realize the true church is Christ not an organization. I'm 68 and have been out of the Church 25 years and am so grateful that I searched facts and wasn't just content to feel the church was true.
Marcia that is my story too. Book of Abraham was the smoking gun which opened me up to research on my own. It all made sense when I researched, the founding church leaders just could not be trusted any longer.
Very good post!
I love the bit where the Egyptian Ithyphallic God Min is sporting a nice big woody was "translated" by Joseph Smith as "God sitting on this throne revealing through the heavens the grand key words of the priesthood". So, somehow the key words of the priesthood have a lot to do with an erect penis. This is too funny!
@@jonmoonswesternnyoutdoorad5750
The Book of Abraham fraud is pretty obvious and takes deliberate mental gymnastics to maintain membership in the church. The church's new member rates are plummeting. About the only places they have much luck baptizing new members is in the third world where internet access and language barriers make it difficult for prospective members to learn what a fraud they've been sold by the missionaries. I left close to 15 years ago myself, and I have never regretted it. For a church that claims to be true, they sure as hell have to make up a lot of BS to rationalize their doctrines and history. I look at the church as a multi-level marketing scam disguised as a religion. The high up leaders have to know that it's a fraud!
+Marcia - good for you for allowing yourself to see the church clearly for what it is.
damage control.
"Look for sources left by the people themselves." Wow. That's the last thing I'd expect to hear from a mormon. That's good advice. Ironic because that will lead people to leave the church.
Thought Criminal yes reading my xgreatgrandmother history of being forced into polygamous marriage at 15 and forced to raise her five children by herself disturbed me and caused me to search further.
You, sir, get my instant subscription. I had many of the same concerns while watching the original video, and I'm happy to see them addressed in such a respectful and informed way. Thanks for what you do. Makes me feel less alone, as I'm currently still trapped in the Utah bubble and have no voice of my own. Happy fun times.
Hello I just want to thank you for opening my eyes to see what my church really was, I used to argue in the comments of your videos all the time. Thank you.
Honestly I’m offended, as all Mormons should be, that they expect us to just accept these bullshit excuses. Do you think I’m stupid? I know what I was and wasn’t taught for 35 years. I know what was withheld from me. I can look back and see the cover ups. I know immorality and lying when I see it. I can’t excuse Joseph’s behavior. Don’t teach me honesty and then try to deceive me. We are not stupid. You might pacify some people for a little while but by and large we are all getting sick of being lied to
Yep we were all taught a different narrative in the old days. Any new or competing ideas were dismissed as "anti-mormon" rhetoric. Now you can find that information of the church website. Total gaslighting by these historians.
If the seer stone was used more than the Urim and Thummim, why was it never mentioned in seminary when i attended in the 1980's?
They didn't want you to know. The only reason this information has been acknowledged and released by the church is that it got out on the internet, otherwise, those gospel topics essays would never have been written. I also read that since they have this stuff posted, it gives them some protection form law suits filed by ex-Mormons who claim they were deceived. Now the church can say that the information was available and it is not their fault the members didn't know. I have a friend that is a member and he says none of the stuff in the essays is taught in Sunday school, priesthood, institute, etc. They aren't going out of their way to let members know that issues previously branded as anti-Mormon are now acknowledged as fact. I don't know why anyone would give so much time and energy to such an obvious fraud of a church.
Seer stones actually make the golden plates obsolete.
Because it's even more ridiculous than the Urim and Thummim!
@@huffdaddy3845 It's not taught and strongly discouraged from being openly discussed during church services. A lot of the members still don't know about it.
We were lukewarm Catholics when my parents converted to the Mormon Church when I was 17 years old. That was more than 50 years ago. I enjoyed going to church services and all the programs had for young people, and the people were very nice. So I tended to ignored the questions I had in my own mind because I didn't want to think that the church was not true or would lie to us. I remember my first surprise was when I learned that blacks couldn't hold the priesthood. This was something the missionaries didn't tell us or about the seer stone or polygamy and many other things. We just assumed what the church taught was true and never questioned them. I'm still officially a member of the church but am not a believer and am "inactive," as they say. I've been told that I'll come back some day but that will never happen. Once I find that something is a lie I can never see it any other way again. What caused the most damage to my "testimony" was the Book of Abraham. I was just a dumb kid at first but now after several degrees I wonder why I ever believed what the church said about anything.
quit mormon dot com is a great way to let the Mormon church know that you do not stand with their lies, racism, and homophobia. Active or not the Mormon church counts you among their ranks.
Church history is what destroyed my belief in the church. I served a mission at age 19 in 1978, I remember showing nonmembers a picture of Joseph Smith translating the Book of Mormon directly from the gold plates not using his hat and a peep stone. I remember talks by the breathen on the importance of honesty in our lives. It seems that principle of honesty in the church does not apply to General Authorities, specifically the Prophet and the 12 apostles. I have been lied to all my life by these guys.nThe Book of Abraham has nothing in common with an Egyptian-funeral text . Why do keep putting up with the lies?
They make lots of money...and it's tax free!
That picture is still hanging on the wall in many church buildings! It’s also on pamphlets
Not-so Silent RED its also a painting which can be painted how the artist wants it
I was always taught the plates were in front of him and JS used a Urim and Thummim and scribe. This is most likely to have been know for decades and never disclosed until more recently in the church. They only published a photo of the seer stone in the press back in 2016.
Love that you do this! I grew up in a Mormon community and know it is a cult. Plural marriage still exists.
Isn't it ironic that the anti-Mormon claims that the church used to dispute are now openly admitted to be true by the church in the Gospel Essays? They do try to put a reassuring spin on these issues, and attempt to make them out as faith building. If you had gone into an LDS church 20 years ago spouting the contents of the Gospel Essays, you would have been branded an apostate and been excommunicated. Ah, the wonders of the internet!
Sam Huff and have they apologized to those they excommunicated. NO. Have they repented. NO.
Yesterday's Anti-Mormon Literature is today's Church History!
Internet will destroy this church. It is only a matter of time. I have been a member since 1997.
Yep. And ironically I also know people who told me they left the church after reading the gospel topics essays. These papers were supposed to answer questions and prevent people from exiting the church.
If you had gone to the church and discussed the contents of the gospel topics essays 20 year ago, you would be called anti-mormon, and apostate and sinner.
The church recently shared an image of the seer stone. What they really need to do is share an image of the urim and thummim and while they are at it the sword of laban. If they actually exist then I deserve to see them after all I have done for the church over the years.
"The revelation to practice plural marriage did not come with an instruction manual." BwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhBwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahh!! These leaders kill me with their funny jokes! ;)
I appreciate the time and effort these videos take. I can tell you do lots of research and these videos are helping lots of people. Thank you.
8:42 "The history of the church can withstand scrutiny."
No it can't. If it could, then church leaders wouldn't need to mass-produce their own sanitized version of the church's history in the first place. Not to mention, encourage its members to seek answers to their doubts regarding the church's history ONLY in church-approved sources.
Keep up the good work and having the facts. The church is in full damage control, however, too little too late.
I remember when the principle of honesty was taught in Gospel principles (and just about any class in church), they would explain from the book, that a lie was a lie, when "you" with-held information, or said half-truths, or when you were being deceitful in any way shape or form, it was considered a lie. I guess when you are a church historian, or a general authority, etc, you are exempt from this principle, perfect. I wanna thank those individuals who had the courage to stand up and call the church for their lies. If it wasn't for their courage, and risking it all, we would not have known this organization is what it is today, all lies. I'm so much happier today, thank you.
I debated my institute teacher who in turn admitted that they do not care what is true and rather admitted that faith led him to a good life and he wants to keep it that way
My Mum said the same thing. It’s reaches the point of brain washing when an individual will refuse to challenge or investigate their beliefs and continue to follow in something blindly.
Did anyone catch Cook’s convenient slip of tongue when he said “600,000 of you going on missions”. Only off by a factor of 10. Unless that was reference to a prophecy he’s made? The number of missionaries is already declining, so in either case it’s hilarious.
Mark, I checked there’s 67,000 missionaries right now. Was that a slip of the tongue or were they feeding them BS numbers? But you are correct the numbers are declining quite a bit.
I think they got pretty high a few years ago
When they lowered the age that the young men and woman could go on missions but there’s been a lot of backlash lately concern certain topics and I think that it’s been hard for them to maintain numbers now.
Also funny how he says "of you". I've heard that many high ranking mormon officials don't.
Yes, I was like, I think he added an extra zero there. Accident? Hmmmm.
He also mixed up Jesus Christ and Joseph Smith on the original broadcast I watched. They dubbed it over later.
Wow, using Jacob 2:30 while not discussing D&C 132. To my memory polygamy was originally taught to be necessary for exhaltation and then that was changed after Official Declaration 1.
Joseph Smith received a revelation allowing him to practice plural marriage AND teach it to his wife Emma.
D&C 132:52
"And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, receive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me;"
@@Andrew-op5jg wasn't he already practicing before his revelation?
krissander1 yes. I feel he used doctrine and covenants to give credence to his desires as if the Lord said it.
It was the Joseph Smith papers that got me. I was planning a lesson for my young Women and read his journal and found his only account of the first vision written by him and it was NOT what I had been taught my whole life. I couldn't teach them anymore and we stopped going to church shortly after that as we continued to find lie after lie. Funny that they are telling you that those papers are a place to find answers!
You would think that seeing God, you would remeber something like that a little better! Just my opinion!
Did you have one child or twins?
My feeling exactly. It would be burned into your memory cells. It is all a big misrepresentation.
"Sometimes we'll have questions, BUT..." Even their wording revels the depth of their fear of the actual historical events. Between this and constantly referring the truth as challenging i can't believe they actually convert people. Also, at 21:00 and beyond have they lost all self awareness? How are they are accepting that their historical accounts are completely unreliable without realizing that their whole religion is based on them..
If you respond to gaslighting answers as an honest person would, you'll find yourself thinking all the time "how can they expect people to take them seriously?".
Spoiler alert - they know it's BS.
Did you know young people are asking these questions and know the answer already, they want to see the dance around the questions with no meaningful answer.
The lady's comments about the seer stone and the revelatory muscles being built up made me cringe. I can't believe she herself believes what she is saying, im almost embarrased for her. In fact, she even laughs when she said translation muscle .lol
tewminator how can she live with herself knowing she is deliberately obscuring the truth. I thought we were taught to tell the truth and be honest in our dealings with others.
The problem with being completely honest and transparent is that it would severely compromise the credibility of past leaders and consequently break down the idea that current leaders are true Prophets, Seers with revelatory gifts.
Excellent video and analysis. It was hard not to hit dislike because of all the morons talking. I can't believe this next level gas lighting... The lying and deceit is so intense. This shit was hidden! I didn't learn about any of this stuff in the 30 years I attended church, went through the temple, served a mission, and was a gospel doctrine teacher.
Whew! No longer a member, frees you to be vulgar and your free from the standards of the church.
History doesn't affect Gods truth.
The church is true than it has ever been.
Eat Drink and be Merry for you'll die soon and in the end God will beat you with a few stripes, awe then at last you'll be where God is?
Only God knows.
I'd rather live the gospel and take my chances.
What do I know?
Jesus lives, because He lives, we'll all live again.
Jesus is the perfect Son of a loving Father in Heaven
The Book of Mormon is trueand testifies of Christ!
Joseph Smith is a true Prophet of God and saw the Father and the Son!
His true church has been restored to the earth! The church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints.
How our history unfolded has no effect on those truths.
Have you read History of the Church... by B.H.Roberts published 1902 ? That contains the official history of the church based on the Manuscript history written by Joseph Smith and his scribes.
www.boap.org/LDS/History/History_of_the_Church/
@@naya9305 If you've found your peace in the church and are fine with the deplorable behavior and teachings of the early leaders, then good for you. But it wouldn't kill you to give the benefit of the doubt to people who say they truly feel duped by all the half-truths and obfuscation of truth that seems to be the status quo in the church. Even in this Face to Face Bro. Grow says that even though plural marriage was commanded, there was no manual on how to practice it. I mean, come on! Section 132 IS the manual. And Joseph broke every rule in that section. But I digress. My point is, if you're happy worshiping in a church that doesn't mind lying, Godspeed. But don't be harsh with those who can't find a spiritual home in that kind of environment.
naya and there it is. People in the church saying those of us who leave are allowed to be as vulgar and sinful as we want. They just don’t get it. Naya, there’s definitely nothing wrong with going on with your life and taking your chances. We’re doing the same exact thing, only we’ve not allowed ourselves to sit in a world where we are lied to our entire lives and just told to accept it.
Would you accept the lying if it continually came from your own family? Your spouse? At work? But with church it’s fine, right? Cuz JS and the BofM are all true and on and on.
Yes we were all gaslighted.
Lol, @24:30.....you are correct, he wasn't using those things to translate the Bible, he was using Adam Clarks Bible Commentary!
12.08 to 12.34. We DON'T need to be told this. Most people have some idea of fairness and how to do a little research.
The history is the problem.
15:33 Funny how they skipped past the hardest part of the question? nothing to see here i guess.
16:00 "Monogamy is the Lord's wish for his people, and there are rare exceptions where the Lord commands us to practice plural marriage in order to raise up a righteous people." Except that's not what Jacob 2:30 says. It says "For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up SEED unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things [monogamy]." Saying it's about a righteous people is not the same as it being about making Mormon babies, and that's a pretty big distinction when you consider how often these same people argue that Joseph never slept with all his teenaged wives. If he didn't, what was the point? How was he not in violation of this pretty simple and clear rule?
This book was written to "inoculate" younger generations of members, but I know many (myself included) for whom it had the opposite effect. I guess no matter how nicely you word it, if you tell someone one story for 25 years and then suddenly tell them a different version they get a little suspicious. Weird how that works.
I’m 15 almost 16 years old and I was born and raised in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I have never despised any of it and have always gone to youth activities and Sunday school meetings. I’ve made tons of friends and have many great memories with people of this religion. I wouldn’t go as far as saying I have been brainwashed, but I feel like I have never been given a chance to do or believe what I want to do and believe. Both of my parents are very religious and I love my family to death, but this church isn’t for me. I just can’t handle all of these Sundays going to church and faking a testimony I don’t have. I’m so tired of being pressured into all of these ordinances, temple attendances, and fake truths that I have to deal with on a regular basis. I have tried to tell my parents this, but they keep going on about how they know this is true, it is the right thing for me, and if I sincerely ask god for truth I will receive an answer. I have tried this many times throughout the years and I have never once heard this magical voice everyone talks about. I do not believe in this church and I want out. I feel that this has been distancing me from my family. As I come closer to a mission age my parents and leaders have been putting more and more expectations above my head. I really want to live in peace with members of this organization and especially my parents, but I don’t know how to tell people without being shunned or disowned by my family and friends. Do you have any advice for a kid in my situation who is too young to move out and would love more than anything to leave this church?
Jake, the best advice I can give is to keep the peace until you are 18 and/or financially independent. There will be social costs no matter what you do, but you can minimize the financial costs if you can maintain the support of your parents until you are independent. Toe the line and act the part for now. You might even convince them to let you focus on college while you "prepare mentally and spiritually" or "become mature enough" for a mission. If you have a college fund, work on getting it into a bank account with only your name on it. Start filling that account like crazy as soon as you can. Then, when you're ready, (moved out and enrolled in non-LDS college) you can sit down with your parents and explain that a mission is not in the cards, since you can't honestly tell someone that you believe the church is true. Assure them that you are not rejecting them or the good things that they taught you, and that you love them. They may need time and space to process your decision, and they might lash out initially, but just give them time and your relationship will heal. You may need to be the better person and model unconditional love and patience until they come around. Join the exmormon reddit or exmo Facebook groups for emotional support, and make some non-member friends. Then live your life to the fullest. You've got a bright future, Jake. Just hold on for a couple years. :)
I’m offering an idea here but I do not know your parents! Don’t get yourself put out of your home and community. Wait until you’re out and established. If they aren’t able to see more than right of wrong, I would NOT try this.
Perhaps you could explain that though you’ve studied and prayed that you have received a different answer; that there is much truth in the church but it is not the only truth. Don’t be moved. You have a witness. They can’t really argue logically because you will have arrived at your conclusion the same way they arrived at theirs. They wouldn’t want you to lie, right? They will have a hard time forcing you to the temple and on a mission if they can’t prove themselves right. “Feeling” something is true just doesn’t make it so.
Your parents intentions are probably well-meaning. Most parents love their children with all their heart and truly want to do what they think is best for you. So maybe cut them a little bit of slack and then as you grow you can break free and pave your own path. There’s nothing easy about it but you can do it
She laughs when she says"translation muscles" not very convincing!
_"...I built up my translation muscles..."_
I really want to know what that means. But what also confuses me is that I thought the church advocated for a tight translation for the Book of Mormon, siding with Cowdery's account about the seer stone not moving on to the next statement until the current one was written correctly. If that's true, it was never Joseph "learning" how to translate. It was all done in the stone or by god. Joseph was just reading the stone.
Who really cares?
The Book of Mormon is true.
@@naya9305 May I ask you please what it means when you say it's "true"? Thanks.
naya Here are my thoughts about how I used to know that the Book of Mormon was true:
I cared whether what I felt as a *warm feeling inside me was really the whispering of the Holy Ghost. I CARED enough about TRUTH. One day I heard a new phrase that people were using to describe the warm feeling that had been my holy feeling. *Elevation Emotion.
“ELEVATION is an emotion elicited by witnessing virtuous acts of remarkable moral goodness. It is experienced as a distinct feeling of *warmth and expansion that is accompanied by appreciation and affection for the individual whose exceptional conduct is being observed. Elevation motivates those who experience it to open up to, affiliate with, and assist others. Elevation makes an individual feel *lifted up and optimistic about humanity.
- Wikipedia
People experiencing “Elevation” were describing it exactly as I had described the Hoy Ghost! If you want to let more , read the entire Wiki article and follow its links. FairMormon has a defense against my view, but I don’t think it’s very strong.
www.fairmormon.org/answers/What_is_the_elevation_emotion_and_what_do_critics_claim_about_it_as_it_regards_the_Spirit%3F
@@karencoates2487 It might have been there 11 months ago, but they took it down.
11:58 _"There are so many historical discussions online about our history. And most of these discussions produce a lot more heat than light."_
In other words, if you ever start reading one of these discussions, don't pay attention to what they're saying, just pay attention to how you're feeling. And if you feel bad, then they're wrong, even if they're speaking factually correct information.
Thank you for these informative, level headed videos.
I agree. Thanks for sharing!
@The Mormon Informant, could you provide references to the quotes that you used for Brigham Young?
I'm not sure exactly which ones you are referring to, but here are a few.
www.fairmormon.org/answers/Journal_of_Discourses/10/25#110
www.mormonthink.com/QUOTES/blacks.htm
www.mormonthink.com/QUOTES/blackintermarriage.htm
Thank you
Thank you
Would you mind providing me a source for the different accounts Joseph smith gave off the first vision?
www.josephsmithpapers.org/site/accounts-of-the-first-vision
@@TheMormonInformant Thank you!
Where do you find your sources? I would like to research all of your information you have from your videos.
Anything specific you would like a source for?
@@TheMormonInformant Well, this isn't the right video but your 50 more things about the Mormon church. This video just made me think about it. Its just what info you had on hand that I could read
I spent months reading news articles, wikipedia, general conference talks, scientific papers, and many other sources relevant to the topics to create a script. For any claim made in that video, I could find you the source, but the script wasn't created with the intention of being a well-cited document. If there were specific topics you wanted more information on, I'd be happy to give you some links.
Please more videos!!! I saw you live yesterday during the protest in SLC.
Dude you literally have the most relaxing voice ever! Also this younger guy that's defending the church has the most culty haircut I've ever seen!
Lol, thanks.
We know more now is not true. Fawn Brodie wrote her book many decades ago with detailed information about church issues.
I know this is an old video but going through the comments and reading your response to criticism from members is fenomenal and the responses from the members seem vague and negligent to being OBJECTIVE that is what I had to do to decide to whether stay or leave the church all together
FYI it's phenomenal
I have read three volumes of the Saints series. It is a watered down form of history. It fails to fully discuss the nine versions of the first vision and why they exist. It also fails to discuss how the Book of Mormon was translated by use of seer stone and top hat. Volume one page 26 states JS unearthed the plates, the seer stones (interpreters) and breastplate. In fact it was not the seer stone. HC volume one says it was the Urim and Thummim stones and breastplate. Some accounts say these were fashioned into eyeglasses. There is little evidence the Urim and Thummim and breastplate were used for even much of the lost 116 pages portion. The narrative now says what we have now of the BM was translated with a seer stone and top hat. In fact the gold plates were often not even in the room during the translation process. We have evidence of this provided by the scribes Cowdery, Emma, Whitmer and Harris to this effect.
12:03 "most of these discussions produce more heat than light..."
That was the biggest nerd pun I've ever heard.
Listen to what was just said by the female historian at 23:57. She said the seer stone was not buried with the plates and that JS found the seer stone years earlier. Yet the Saints volume 1 book on page 26 says the seer stones were included in the box containing the gold plates.
My "Bullshit-o-Meter" has broken through constant pegging . . .
Wow. Holy shit.
I love how they skipped over large chunks of the poor peoples questions.
Really sad.
Pretty telling in some instances what they chose to skip.
Binding and Loosing is a Jewish term it means Forbid or Permit . Nothing to do with Sealings
_"The church has good answers."_
Don't you mean, correct answers?
11:25 haha
Can you imagine the fear and pain Fanny Alger faced by being thrown out of the smith house.
She had to find a way to survive in a mostly hostile group of Smiths followers in a very unforgiving wilderness environment.
Something to think about when you are forced to almost worship smith and his dysfunctional family.
0:52 The whole video and the entirety of Mormonism in a nutshell.
"Transparency" ?? Are you kidding !!
what a horrible church
The cheery voice that couple put on felt so artificial and grating.
I don't want to fight over text but just have a few questions. If the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints isn't God's Church then which Church do you propose we follow? Also, do you still believe in the Book of Mormon?
I don't propose any church, because there is no evidence that any of them are true. I do not believe that the Book of Mormon is historical, nor do I consider it a moral guide.
Okay, thanks. Do you believe in Jesus Christ and the Bible?
I believe Jesus was a Galilean Jew who was baptized by John the Baptist, had disciples, had a controversy at the Temple, and was crucified by the Romans near Jerusalem. That's what the evidence can support. I do not believe that he was the son of God. I believe the Bible has some limited value as a history, and the New Testament has some good teachings, but most of the book is useless morally and historically.
@@TheMormonInformant
It was prophesied Antichrists would come and you are one of them. Expose your life and compare it to a devout member, my bet is their much happier.
So your advice is follow no church and that the Book of Mormon is no moral guide?
You obviously never read and studied it.
Naya, you can do and believe whatever you want. Gregg and I were having a respectful conversation. If you'd like to chat, feel free to start your own comment thread. Oh, and BTW, I've read the Book of Mormon more than 20 times.
gross how scripted and practiced this was.. let real people ask real questions not rehearsed.. answer with the spiritual keys you said you have... manipulative!!!
You've missed the point Im afraid...
Enlighten me. What is the point?
So who is the commentator Just curious as to your background Are you a historian? are you A Member in good standing in the LDS Church? disaffected member ? Because it seems to me you have your own agenda in your analysis's is skewed
Who I am is irrelevant. If you doubt the truth of anything I have said, I am happy to provide my sources.
Whatever happened in the past, one thing is true, the Church still true and the priesthood of God is on the earth. Whatever problem you have with Church history bring it to the Lord, but it is sad that people are living the doctrine that came through the Prophet Joseph, wich is the true doctrine of God, And most of the time is because of sin and pride.
"The Lord" doesn't answer questions about church history. Quentin said as much in this fireside.
How can the church be "true" when I blatently covers up historical facts that it doesn't want the members to know? If they had the truth, they would have to worry about the facts. Rodolfo, you clearly haven't done your homework. Open your eyes to the possibility that the church is not what it claims to be.
There are a handful of popular myths about why people leave the church. One of the myths is sin/pride. The reality is quite different. One of the many resources you can find on this is a study that was done some years ago, where over 3,000 ex-Mormons were asked why they left. Their responses might surprise you. Spoiler alert: It's not because they wanted to sin or suffered from pride.
www.whymormonsleave.com/top-5-myths-and-truths-about-why-mormons-leave-the-lds-church/
But it’s not just what’s happened in the past. Besides, the past is our foundation for this whole church. Surely you know that. If someone is claiming to be the mouthpiece of God and restoring the one true gospel, then his character surely matters! Plus, as illustrated in this video, we continue to feel betrayed or misled by half truths to THIS VERY DAY. Please try to understand why some people would feel confused and betrayed. Many of us were very devoted to this church and the gospel and it’s painful for us on so many levels to feel like we gave decades of our lives and things were hid from us. It feels deceitful.
If Joseph Smith was not a prophet, God would have destroyed him. The book of Mormon is true an acts as a beacon in my life.
There's a lot of false prophets today. Why doesn't God destroy them? Also, Joseph was murdered at a young age. How do you know that wasn't God's destruction of a false prophet?
How much time/energy have you spent making these videos? Cut to the chase, Prove The Book of Mormon wrong! You can’t because it is true brother! I would say u are an angry soul who didn’t want to live by the teachings of the church.. I give u the same advice the angel gave Alma the younger!
Here you go. www.mormonthink.com/book-of-mormon-problems.htm