In the other hand, I love sand! Be it because I grew up playing tomb raider, so it was all about Egypt everywhere! I was so excited when the desert of Sumeru was released, because just the sight gives me a sense of calmness
Eyy I love to think of the enigma of the Nails. Still hoping we'll get to see one being deployed and maybe saving the people from that region before it falls. Very cool theory Shadow!
I'm happy you liked the video!!! A nail descending live would be really cool, also because we would see where it actually comes from! Though, I doubt that's going to happen, sadly!
Oh so the thing you said you stumbled upon was the domain description. I’ve had that particular domain description on my mind for a while now, but I’ve never really been able to figure out what it means. I’ve kept on eye on domain descriptions since around late Inazuma/early Sumeru, but I became more intent on reading and thinking about them in 3.0 because the Spire of Solitary Enlightenment description contains what is likely one of the only references to the civilization beneath the Chasm. I think we tend to see Nails in the later areas for each region, but since Fontaine’s basically only missing two areas -the tower area and Mont Esus- and we know we’re getting the area around the tower and the remainder of Erinnyes because of PlayStation, the Fontaine Nail or its corresponding Irminsul branch could be in-game as soon as 4.2. I’m still not sure how to treat that blog post since I did read it, not thinking it was an accident. I remember when 2.7 was delayed they didn’t delay Heizou’s announcement, but this time it did seem unintentional. For various reasons I was really looking forward to the livestream being on that date, and the new date doesn’t work quite as well for me. Not knowing if I should discuss what I saw in the blog post has been difficult.
Oh, so we're finally getting the tower? I wonder if it's actually the tower of Remuria from history or if it's something entirely different, although it does fit the description. As for the Irminsul branch, I guess it's the yellow weeping willow we all saw on Moosashi's channel and that we can actually see the blob version from the game with 4.1. Anyway, you should keep the PS info until after the livestream has been shown, because, until then, it's basically a leak, although I don't really know what it said, so I can't say how much of a leak it is. Since it was supposed to come out with the livestream, I could guess there's also the new weekly boss in it, too, especially since the boss theme has been popping up in my recommended section.... If there is (and I think it does) a nail in Fontaine, I think it's going to be where Remuria was supposed to be. If the book is even remotely reliable, then Capitolium was near a huge mountain, so I guess the huge mountain near the Court of Fontaine, although Petrichor has a ton of Remuria ruins, which is weird, and the town is supposed to be near a massive waterfall. So, crazy idea is that the waterfall is actually a hole in the sea near Petrichor, so where the nail went through, or the town is near the huge mountain and there's a waterfall coming down from it... As for the domain in Inazuma, I basically clicked the wrong thing and I saw the description! I don't even think I've ever got anything from that domain in general because, when I went inside, I didn't even remember having seen it before XD I do read the domains descriptions, I started doing it since Sumeru consistently now that I think about it, and then I just opened every single domain in the other three nations to read what they said, so I must have skipped it entirely, probably because there's the puppet domain and the Sakura tree and the teleporter all in one place almost!
@@ShadowXImpact I really don't think the Big Tower™ is the Remurian Tower. It may be built where it once stood, but it's certainly not the original. I mean cmon, not only is it steampunky as hell which does not match Remuria's more "artful" style, but the Remurian Tower should be half underwater by now if the waterline of Fontaine has elevated high enough to swallow entire cities and buildings...
@@Whenpigfly666 yeah, it shouldn't be the actual tower of Remuria. The thing is that in the history, it specifically says that is was "uprooted", and if you look at it, it's on a piece of land, like a little island, that is floating over the water, which is really weird but fits with the concept of being "uprooted". It does say that it drowned in the titanic waves, but if we want to stretch it, after the wave is gone, the tower would still be there, it never specifically said that it drowned in the actual lake. Anyway, we'll see if we can find something out in 2 days with the livestream, otherwise we will have to wait a little more than a week. I honestly don't know how much I'll be able to do for a detailed analysis in less that 5 days... Well, 4 days actually, because it would be pretty pointless to upload the analysis of the livestream once the actual update is out....
your theory about fire isn't stupid! one of the two human creation myths i can recall off the top of my head is that of prometheus gifting fire to humanity (which reminds me of guoba/marchosius, now that i think about it LOL). venti also references three different real life creation myths of gods turning their bodies into the earth & seas in the official manhua and calls them "the primeval ones" (which i believe might be an early translation of the term "primordial one"?) sorry for the infodump this information's been driving me crazy for like a year HAHA
By manhua, you mean the manga? Sorry for the ignorance, it's a word I've read before but I never actually checked what it means XD But yeah, actually, more than Prometheus (although it would be nice since there's Pandora's box in his myth), I was thinking about Hephaestus and his forge, although it doesn't really have anything to do with the creation of humans, at least as far as I remember. I just can't wait to see what Furina or Neuvillette are going to tell us about Natlan and Murata to be honest! Like another viewer said, there's going to be some Primordial Fire or Flame in Natlan, which gave me the idea of it being the reason for the natural hotsprings healing properties that can't be replicated outside Natlan!
@@ShadowXImpact yup! manhua = manga in chinese (its just the word i'm more used to typing LOL) primordial fire would be super interesting i wonder if that would tie into bennett's backstory being found in the mare jivari somehow... natlan's such a distant nation i'm so curious as to what's going on there :O
@@charlieh4607 I need to read the manga again. I do have some memories of some god names Venti told Vanessa, and I remembered about it just because you sparked that memory. I don't really remember exactly what he said, so yeah, it's time to read it one more time!
Back with another banger I see relating genshin to honkai and connecting the elements is so genius and hoyo has always had a recurring theme in there games and I think your real good at accurately assessing and speculating what might be happening with Celestia I'm betting one of your theories will be proven right very soon
This was a really cool & fun theory 💜 Just wanna add, for Ei's/electro's possible connection to void [if we're connecting it to like...space?] is her ability to create spaces like where she was meditating. But then that makes me wonder if geo is supposed to be void since Zhongli also taught the arts of making subspaces [like the teapot]. So maybe then dendro is earth instead and electro is ether?
Hmm, it would be very strange if dendro was Earth, Electro ether and, I guess, Geo void. We would lose the imaginary tree connection and the sea of quanta connection. Also, Yae Miko taught Ei how to create that world, which is, more or less, the same as the serenitea pot. I don't think that this kind of Art has much to do with the elements, to be honest. Madame Ping doesn't even have a vision, although the Adepti have something like "internal visions"
@harryshade5700 what what? When Makoto died, she left a piece of her consciousness, also thanks to Istaroth, in the Musou no Hitotachi in order to help Ei in the future when the conditions were right. On the other hand, Yae Miko said that she was the one who taught Ei to place her consciousness in an object. If Ei knew how to create subspaces, she wouldn't have needed Yae to teach her, right? At least, this is my reasoning. Still, even if she knew how to create subspaces on her own, the result doesn't change. It's an art that multiple entities can learn to use, not something related to the elements
I really love your theories ♡ Even when they turn out to not be true you can always find the logic behind them without stretching too much the confirmed facts of the game 😊
Thank you so much!!! I always make sure that my theories, at the very least, make sense. Then, it's all in the official writers hands and brains, and how they decided for the story to go!
Other examples of void might be those portals we occasionally find in the overworld. Like the one in mondstat that takes us to the spiral abyss island, among others throughout teyvat.
@@ShadowXImpact So, I double checked in game just to see if there was anything similar between them. You know, find a connecting thread. All three of them lead to something abyss related. The mondstat portal takes you to spiral abyss. The inazuma portal goes to the mechanical array. But then there's the Jadeplume in Sumeru, a fungal entity. At first being the odd one out, that is until you look in the back of the cave and find a Ruin Grader. Just my head canon but I guess the portals are simply abyss portals, leading to places the abyss has been investigating. Certain ruin enemies are based on the other enemies in game, such as vishaps for the ruin drake. And the Jadeplume's adventure book description says it could one day evolve into something even greater. It's likely the abyss is observing it's changes. Or even worse, could be feeding it abyssal energy, to forcibly evolve it into a weapon.
So I looked at the prior Tarot card video and in that one you said you found a great fit by taking the index through the alphabet of the corresponding Hypostasis's Hebrew letter of the alphabet. IE for Cryo it's Hypostasis is "Daleth" the 4th letter so it corresponds to Major Arcana card number 3 (subtracting one because The Fool is major arcana card number zero). That card is the Empress I think.... at any rate it's not the Hierophant. So why the change? Because you must know the main criticism of this sort of random matching theory is that you can post-hoc match anything to anything else. And you did say that subtracting one (for The Fool card) got you a good match but now you're apparently adding one on? that would get you a different set of Major Arcana to match the Archons and am I supposed to believe that this random matchup is even better? Makes me wonder if we did +5 maybe we'd be even better again, or if we counted backwards from the end of the set? You're just Cold Reading yourself, aren't you? And this is what always happens when you try to look for clues in real world lore instead of the game lore. When has it ever worked?
Very nice theory !! The nail using the power of the original elements of the world makes kinda sense tbh tho this would took away a bit of the divinity surounding Celestia. Hoyo made sur to distinguish Everything that came from the divine throne of heaven. Architecturally its either grey/white/ivory with golden touches and for power itself the color is always golden or Cyan (nail, Deshret tech, Enko unified civilisation, Pneuma, golden ichor etc...) but hey lets see what hoyo is really cooking ! Also what are your thought about King Remus being the First ever god or Entity sent by Celestia ? And Remuria being the Unified Civilisation (Golden troupes, Lochknights, barbarian) but its Capitole being sets in Fontaine ? Remus is stated to be the King of Gods with "Unsurpassed authority" the "Universal Harmost" and "King of All under Heaven" after all I cant wait to see your analysis video of the livestream, as the final chapter of Fontaine its sure is going to be epic !
I mean, it's just a theory that made sense to me. Obviously, things can be completely different, so yeah, let's see what hoyo has in store. We're past halfway now, so they're going to share more about the beginning of Teyvat as we go forward. The answer may be closer than we think! As for Remus, I don't think he was sent by Celestia. In the Wings, it is implied that he was originally from Fontaine, so I don't think he has anything to do with Celestia. Same for the Unified Nation. If he was from it, the heavenly principles would have killed him. That ancient, Genesis history is supposed to be completely forgotten. Orobashi was killed for reading Before Sun and Moon and the people of Enkanomiya were helped by Istaroth, who split their memories so that their knowledge of the genesis of Teyvat would have been left in Enkanomiya (becoming the sinshades) and sealed in order for them to be allowed to come to the surface. Also, the lochknights are, at the end of the day, still Oceanids, so they're Egeria's descendants, probably the warrior Oceanids. So, yeah, Remus was called a lot of things, but he was also called basically a fool for his convictions about who he was, so.... XD
I think that it could be possibly true about Remus If we take the 'Broken Goblet of the Pristine Sea''s description: "Legend says that when the first usurper came to the primordial sea, the first sovereign gave him a goblet of water. Later, he became the unquestioned god-king, and used this goblet of water to refine the mysterious drops of dew, establishing a splendid and powerful empire." And we know that 'refined drops of dew' are in reference to the golden ichor Remus created. The 'first usurper' has been assumed to mean the Primodial One but...who knows maybe they're not the same
@@ehlannahfhey2347 I think that the usurper Apep talks about, is not the same usurper from Fontaine. Apep's is the Primordial One, for obvious reasons, while the one for Fontaine is Remus, the one that the goblet talks about. I don't know who assumed that the usurper from the goblet may have been the Primordial One, but if you watch my videos about Fontaine, I sure didn't. I understand that using the same word make things odd, but I think they made it very clear that only the dragons call the Primordial One a "usurper", because he usurped their powers, while Fontaine's freedom was usurped by Remus, hence he's also a usurper
Shadow, I'll leave here a theory/thought my friend came up and I agreed upon and collaborated: Isn't Dottore an Oceanid? Simple things first: he has blue hair. Wow, shocker. But every Water Eidolon/Oceanid has blue hair when in human form, although they couldn't hold this form for much time. This brings the experiments: Dottore's and... René's? I forgot the name, but it is the patootie of that world quest. One could argue that changing the natural physical nature of a body as "heretic" (it is water blob spirit thing -> human). If Dottore succeeded in this, he could be always human with no downsided. Next: he can split himself. Another Oceanid trait. And not only that, he says to Nahida something like "It will take me a great amount of resources to create another segment.". This also is in line with the fact that Oceanids can merge freely, but cannot split as easily. The only real drawback this theory has is the fact that Dottore is presumaly (is this the word? presumidamente, in portuguese haha)/thought to be Sumerian. PS: Long ago when you made the video about visions and the "parameter" to a person to receive one, I said something about these line about Hydro: "It is always a character that shows up as an antagonist, but really isn't. Examples: Mona being shut about the fake stars, Ayato in the Five Clans event being the "one in the shadows pulling strings in an omnous way", Barbara blocking the Lyre. Sigewinne got the same "she's an awful traitor" vibe, but turned not to be, as always. Nilou was (unknowingly) responsible for the Samsara. And now we have Furina: everyone will.. Unlive and it is "her fault". Just sharing because maybe it can light a bulb in your head. PPS: I'll send this theory to Ashikai too, 'cuz I like you both. Amazing content creators.
Well, for Dottore, I don't think he could be an Oceanid. Zandik (his real name) was actually a student of the akademiya who was expelled because of his unethical research, but also, although his mask changed, his eyes are red, as shown in the Manga. Also, Ayato has blue hair as well, so it can be considered a normal hair color in general. As for his segments, if I remember correctly, those are based on a Khaenri'ahn lost technology, something like the puppets Ei created. Still, a nice theory, but sadly I don't think it's right For Hydro, on the other hand, it does sound like they're always kinda the bad guys or that it's their fault, although Barbara was kinda right when she took away the Lyre from us. I mean, she didn't know that Venti was Barbatos and she was simply protecting a national treasure, everyone would have done the same. It also happened after we didn't need the lyre anymore, so it's not like it was a problem at that point. But, all the Hydro characters do act a little weird, like Xingqiu always "scheming" something, Yelan is inherently sus, tartaglia is indeed a Harbinger, but the same can't be really said about Kokomi or Candace, since they're openly just protecting their people without any scheming involved. It would sound more like they're all about bringing justice, no matter the means involved, since Justice does sound like the inherent ideal of the power of Water and, as a consequence, of Hydro, which is something I stayed away from in the vision video, since I don't think that the ideal of the Archons are involved in the vision granting, but I this case, more than the Archon's ideal, it's the ideal of the actual element. Of course, hydro characters share other features other than just simple justice, otherwise Jean or Cyno would have been hydro as well, for example.
@ShadowX5452Gaming Aw, I thought there wasn't hard proof of Dottore being Sumerian, just that he went to Sumeru long time ago =[ About Hydro, being antagonistic doesn't mean being wrong haha. For Kokomi, she was a fully fledged rebel that incited the civil war and "even worked with fatui" (I know this is a stretch, but one could argue that). And I don't remember quite right, but she was kinda sketchy about Enkanomiya. Candace who? [I'm kidding, but not quite. She and Kokomi were big letdowns =(] But in all seriousness, Candace kinda stopped everyone in their tracks just because she wanted, because she could have shooned everybody away to fight in another place. That being said, I really don't think Hydro (or at least Furina) is paired with Justice. Maybe Responsability/Burden or something weird like Façade/Masquerade, because most Archons so far has some other title associated, like Nahida Wisdom and Dreams. Maybe Egeria was the God of Justice and since Furina inherited the archonhood (is this the word?), by default she is thought to be the God of Justice, but she could be a god of another thing, like Decarabian was the God of Storm, but Venti is the God of Freedom. [Assuming Furina is in fact the Archon né hahahha]
Im pretty sure the primordial one is still in celestia or at the very least still has the right to shape the world apep says the the dragon king left teyvat to find a higher power to defeat the primodial one using the abyss or forbidden knowledge but when he came back the war was already over we know the abyss can change the physical appearance by who uses it or is currupted by it in one of the artifacts (cant remember the name) the goddess of flowers talks about the primordial one still in rule but is scared for there creations and used celestial nails to mend the land implying that the primordial one is still in charge so who is the second who came well its very likely the dragon king if he used the abyss to fight the first userper then likely he had a drastic change in appearance to make him look extremely different he also could be the abyysal crystal in the caribert quest because he says hes no god yet feels very god like and honestly really powerful with the elements i like the idea of the primodial one using the dragons power to create the seven element system but i still doupt they used the gnosis to create the human realm it was said with the help of another shade (likely the shade of life) that they created life in teyvat but most likely used the gnosis to astablish the seven elements because it was said apep still ruled sumeru until a celestial nail turned all of it to desert (i say all of it because it was said ruhkakadevata created the rail forest when she left king deshret but you mostl likely know that already) as for nibelung and being cryo i find highly unlikely because there are seven dragons soverigns and it was never mentioned that he was one of the seven soveigns if the archon are simular to the dragons the the dragon king would have higher athority over the seven dragons like celestia and the archons also i think the people of enkomiya wern't saved due tothe fact the primordial one was scared or because of a change of heart thats probably why isteroth left because she did approve of the primordial ones actions in fact im enclined to beilive because of isteroths rebellion aganst them they decided to create the archon war to put the gods in check thats why in the genshin manga venti says celestia does'nt value them its because the just chess peices to there game and to keep watch over them venti was probably created to help lost and abandoned people to safety from evil egnerent and selfish gods hes pretty much jesus in genshin his nation even has the cross andnot to mentions the anemo gnosis is queen which is said to be more powerful the king and you know what there are people from other nations who pry to the anemo archon rather then there respective god
Well, it's obvious we have different interpretations about the Primordial One, so I guess there's no point in explaining things, also because I explained in detail why I think he's not ruling anymore. Apep never said that the dragon king went away and came back to find the world different. She said that the dragon king acquired powers from outside Teyvat, Forbidden Knowledge (which she specifies), they fought against the heavenly principles, he died and came back to life around the time she made the agreement with Deshret, since she talks about him first and then the dragon kind coming back to life. Nabu Malikata never said the Primordial One is still ruling, she just told Deshret never to try and find out anything about the shades and the Primordial One. The fact that the nails were sent down, doesn't necessarily mean that it was the Primordial One who sent them. Apep said that the heavenly principles reshaped the world, so it's more understandable if they sent them. How could they reshape the world if it was on the verge of destruction? The second who came is definitely not the dragon king since he is one of the seven dragon sovereign and they were fought by the Primordial One before Teyvat was even created. Even if the abyss can change people's appearance, the dragon king, again like Apep clearly stated, looked for forbidden knowledge. And, again too, the dragon king came back to life, so he can't be the sinner. Although I never specifically said that the shades used the gnoses, the fact that there are seven nations imbued with elemental powers just like there were seven elemental nations on the old world, makes me think that the authorities, the powers of the dragons, were actually used to create everything, not just the humans, in Teyvat. Apep did rule the rainforest of Sumeru, that was later turned into a desert, and then Rukkhadevata turned half of it back to a rainforest. How can the dragon king, the king of the dragon sovereigns, not be a dragon sovereign? You already know I disagree with the rest of your post since it was something I talked about in a previous video and also what I talked about in this one you're commenting. I believe the Primordial One is not ruling over Teyvat, also because it makes no sense for him to punish whoever finds about him, so I think Istaroth helped the people of Enkanomiya and left them there to protect them just like the Primordial One wanted, and when the seal broke, she split their memories, so that everything they knew about the genesis of Teyvat, so everything that people are now not supposed to know were left sealed in Enkanomiya as sinshades, allowing the people to go to the surface. And this is not a theory, it's the description of the sinshades in the loading screen, and they are clearly stated to have been created by Istaroth. As for venti saying that Celestia doesn't value the Gods, it's exactly what I said in my last video: the Gods were all imperfect and, once they created the 7 perfect ones, they enacted the Archon wars to weed out the useless gods.
@@ShadowXImpact I still don’t believe in the second who came is still ruling mostly because we haven’t had much to prove they are plus it was implied somewhere the primordial one won the second war plus the primordial one took away the dragons power and land to crest there own actively invading there land they were born in so it’s not a surprise that the primordial one would abandon enkonomiya I mean they rule all of teyvat there nothing more then a small fraction of the world they rule over people have theorized for the longest time that the second who came is ruling but to me I believe there is no primordial god ruling celestia I mean think about it celestia has been silent every since the cataclysm meaning they used to communicate to the archons before them they Likely even met them in person though I doupt that anyway what if the primordial has left for something outside of teyvat since the khaenriah disaster leaving only the shades left and they’ve been trying to keep order to celestia and to suspect the primordial is still ruling they fell silent also just because the nibeulung is the dragon kind doesn’t he’s one of the sovereigns it’s like Peirro he’s a fatui but not a fatui harbingers he’s tge director of them it’s the same with the dragon king he’s a dragon but isn’t one of the seven sovereigns because he’s stronger and there leader it was never stated that the dragon kings power was stolen only the sovereigns
@@isaiahhaley4816 well, to me it feels like you simply don't want to believe Apep's words. She makes a clear difference between the usurper and the outsiders who came after, the ones we also call heavenly principles, the once she said won the war and reshaped Teyvat as they saw fit. I mean, if you don't even believe the game, the one character who actively witnessed all of that, there isn't really anything that I can say. The fact that Celestia had been silent, also, doesn't mean much, really. It's not like the heavenly principles have to act, they didn't even do anything when Deshret brought Forbidden Knowledge in Teyvat, so there most likely be a specific condition under which the Heavenly Principles do take action, like the nails when Teyvat was about to be destroyed, and the cataclysm, when Teyvat was, again, about to be destroyed. So, I'd say that, unless Teyvat is in extremely grave danger, they'll just leave the Gods deal with it, otherwise why are they even there? Same goes for Nibelungen, who is the king of the dragon sovereigns, but for whatever reason, you think he's not a dragon sovereign, which makes no sense whatsoever to me, but it's your theory, so I'll leave it. And the same goes for Pierro, too. You say he's not a Fatui despite the fact that he created the Fatui and that his constellation, the weeping mask (which is Pierrot) is one of the 11 constellations on the Fatui Harbinger Dial...
@@ShadowXImpact peirro is the director not a harbenger there’s one missing harbenger who is theorized to be dilucs father anyway I never said he wasn’t one of the fatui I said he is in the fatui but isn’t one of the harbengers nibeulung could be a sovereign but not like the other is was said there were seven which coroline with the archons if he was one of them then the math of thing would be off celestia is the king of gods basically while nibeulung in the king of dragons if he is one of the seven dragon sovereigns then that would mean there is no king gnosis and assuming there is which likely because they could’ve stole the dragon kings power maybe Paimon says there are seven archons and seven matching dragon sovereigns meaning the sovereigns match the authority of the archon since there are seven gnosis and there are 8 peices of chess then be ruling must have had a different element that surpassed the seven sovereigns and since he’s referred to the dragon KING and the gnosis represent chess peices then that means he’s separate from the sovereigns I mean if the archons coroline with the sovereigns then nibeulung coroline with celestia I mean celestia doesn’t refer to themselves as archons just primordial gods so nebeulung must be a primordial dragon that’s what I’m trying to say he’s a special more powerful type of sovereign as for apep Ngl I kinda missed some thing in what she said so that’s my bad but I doupt nebeulung was the ice dragon
@@isaiahhaley4816 it still doesn't make sense how Pierro, the creator of the Fatui and the one that commands the harbinger, isn't one of the Harbingers, especially since his constellation is among the seven constellations of the Fatui Harbingers.... And the same goes with Nibelung. It just doesn't make sense to me that the DRAGON king is not an elemental dragon sovereign. Like, why would any of the dragon sovereigns follow his if he was not even a dragon sovereign like them? Also, I think that people want things to be always so predictable and identical, that's why you're expecting things to correlate exactly with others, like there are 7 Archons and Celestia, so there are 7 dragons and a king. Like why? Also, Celestia is not a God, and we saw how there are three beings there, so what now, are there three Nibelung? So, you know, sometimes the best explanation is actually the easiest... But still, this is your theory, if it's right or wrong, you'll find out soon, as the story progresses. Personally, I disagree, but that's not important
@@ShadowXImpact Imaginary means Luxo = Light. Cosmo = Void which is Quanta. Tenebro = Dark because of its nature. This is a Latin word we are talking about.
@@Sanzumori78 no, I understand the Latin, I studied it. What I was asking was where they were included, since you said that, just in case I missed something in the game
New video and I'm hyped! I can't wait for your 4.2 trailer analysis as well! I hope it's not too much of a rush since the time between stream and release is way shorter this time but I will always be here to watch no matter that time it comes out :) I always liked your intuitive theories and deep dive into rabbitholes, more than other loretubers :)
Yeah, it's going to be crazy this time... I wasn't expecting this much of a delay. To be honest, I didn't even check when the patch was supposed to be released and I just read November 8th? How am I going to make a video in less than 5 days????
I think you're going to have a hard time fleshing out a theory based on seven new elements. Even one or two added is enough to mess up most people. The elements listed in the ancient records of Enkanomiya presumably simply refer to an ancient classification system which is no longer interesting except for historic purposes. Unlike the alchemy device which lists 3/4 of the same elements, there's no reason to think the list in Enkanomiya isn't complete. There's no reason to think they had seven elements in their classification system since this is before the Archons and the seven nations existed. There was just one nation and no Visions or Gnoses or dragons. Therefore, the game suggests, it was possible for the people of the Ancient Civilization to have an alternate classification system based on ancient Greek (Terran) philosophy about the four elements. Well you might say, isn't the seven-fold nature of the elements of Teyvat pretty obvious even without nations, Visions, Gnoses or dragons? I mean they had hypostases. I agree but this is how they are telling the story. We have to suspend disbelief a little and say yeah maybe those ancient people, influenced by Terran thinking, saw it differently? And we don't really know enough about how things were back then to comment except about those Hypostases which we know were around and well known to the Ancient Civilization. There's no 7th element in the Enkanomiyan system, and no 8th in the present day Teyvat system. What you see is what you get. Also of course Teyvat is made of the same stuff as the Light realm. I mean otherwise you'd have to assume the PO brought half of a planet's worth of dirt on board the Ark to act as building materials. The point about Egeria is more about her biology, her DNA. Like a Platypus it feels like she was sewn together from spare parts because she doesn't easily fit into the Light realm or the newly created Human realm. Or since Egeria is so old maybe she's more like a Fungus that doesn't feel like a plant or an animal. Plus the book BS&M doesn't say PO created everything new in Teyvat and it excludes the atmosphere, oceans, seas and dry land. So the basic materials are the same. Nor is there any evidence of consistent use of these terms. For example why is the Hydro dragon referred to as the Sovereign of Water? Is it water or is it Hydro? Neuvillette himself uses the word "Water". But isn't that an Enkanomiyan word and classification? dating back to the Ancient Civilization? If that's a human / Primordia One word why on EARTH would a dragon use that word to refer to itself? He'd say he was the Hydro Sovereign surely? Conclusion: there's no separate meaning between water and hydro when it comes to naming elements. Neuvillette is simply using an archaic human word. So you have to strain pretty hard to make six elements match with seven and you end up saying that Electro = Abyss, presumably just because in-game they have the same purple-ish colour? And you have to say the ancients thought "Ice" was an element when of course they all knew that ice was simply frozen water. Wouldn't it make more sense to say that the ancients just lumped modern day Hydro and Cryo together as the water element? Like you later claim they lumped together sand and Geo as "earth"? Well I don't believe any real world law like Tarot cards ever end up being useful in Genshin lore. They lack any predictive power even in the rare cases where (post-facto) you can recognize common threads such as the Bible's lore on angels, and some words from Gnosticism. But perhaps you can think of any examples where real-world lore (Ars Goetia, the Comedia, Chess theory, Tarot, Greek or other ancient mythologies about gods, the plot of Alice in Wonderland, or anime and manga tropes) - have predicted things correctly in a lore theory? I mean I borrowed an idea about time from various cultural sources but perhaps most specifically "A Tale of Time City" by Dianna Wynne Jones, which worked great to predict the Sumeru time shenanigans but of course you reject that in favour of the "only memories" theory. Anyway I doubt the Devs ever read that book and it's most likely based on the time traveling anime "Steins; Gate". So-- no predictive value (except if you think I got the Irminsul samsara's right). At best you can recognize patterns after the fact and say (unfalsifiably) ah yes they must have got this idea from this real world lore source. But at that point no prediction can be made. To their credit Chess theory did predict things about what piece the Electro gnosis would be-- and that predictions failed. We're three years in now. Give it up. Real world lore never predicts game lore. Mihoyo only use that stuff as a random name generator. Anything beyond that is a red herring. If they ever did import plot elements wholesale from real world lore it would be called plagiarism not good writing. The gods aren't Solomon's demons and the Harbingers aren't Comedia characters. Nobody is a character from HI3 either and there's no Honkai coming. Genshin is it's own story, not a rehash of other stories. Obviously some elements are borrowed but not in large enough chunks to have predictive power. But we've gone over this stuff before.
Well, I mean, it's not like I wasn't expecting your usual "everything you said or think doesn't make sense because nothing anyone think makes sense". Still, and I'll keep it very short, the elements listed in Enkanomiya are the elements that the people of the unified nation knew, and they are the people who knew about the Old world and the seven elemental nations ruled by the Elemental dragons. So, although you think that their list is complete, you also need to remember that the one who wrote that list was Orobashi, not the people of Enkanomiya, and he knew the seven elements of Teyvat for obvious reasons... So the absence of the 7th element has to mean something, for many people, not you of course. As for the water dragon and the fact that Neuvillette uses that term, just remember that he received the memories (although incomplete) of the previous dragon, so that could be the reason why he doesn't say hydro but water. I never said that electro is the abyss just because it's purple, I explained it a little deeper. I'm not that simplistic when I try to explain something. The ancients may have lumped together cryo and hydro together without realizing they were two different elements, and that would actually help my theory that the 7th element is, indeed, ice, only the ancients didn't see it as an element of its own. Sand and earth being the same thing, is no lumping together. Sand is an earth material like dirt or rocks. You say nothing from real word was ever used to predict anything in the game, except I used the tarots to predict the Dendro Hypostasis's name 4 months before its release; there's the kusanali Jakata that predicted the continuation of a Rukkhadevata, the spirit living in the tree, in the new tree that grew from the branches of the original one, so... Do I have to even say something about it? But, the question is: if nothing from the real world has any meaning in the game except for random names in your opinion, why do you watch theory videos, since the theorists mainly use elements from the real world to explain the game? By the way, don't say "give it up", because I'm not. But yeah, we've gone over this stuff before and we disagree
OK I'm still confused and it's annoying because I can't really criticize a theory I don't understand properly. So you have two sets of elements - that bit is right. The Enkanomiyan element set is the one in the Bayakuyakoku collection which you say is from Orobashi although it seems an older reference, per the crafting table using those same element names, pointing to the Ancient Civilization, which you agree with so that's all fine. The other set being let's call it the "Teyvat" set. The normal set. I don't think the Ancient Civilization was old enough to remember the dragons and humans hadn't been created at the time so do you mean by, "they are the people who knew about the Old world and the seven elemental nations ruled by the Elemental dragons" that (1) the Old World refers to the pre-PO Teyvat ruled by dragons and is that the way Pierro uses that same term or not in your view? Are you suggesting a link between Fatui and dragons? (2) the yeah this is confusing -- the Enkanomiya set is the terminology used by the Ancient Civilization in reference to the natural elements of Teyvat as represented by the dragon and their nations prior to the PO? But then doesn't the Enkanomiyan set have to be a simple rewording of the Teyvat set? One to one correspondence? All you're saying is they used a slightly different set of words for identical elements and concepts? So then are you saying the 2nd Throne / HP / Celestia faction turns up and just uses different words? But I though you were saying the actual physical material Teyvat is made of had to change? Or do you mean the words changed AND the physical material changed but the new physics of Teyvat just happened to depend on seven elements the same, with the same set of reactions between them? Are you saying Hydro and Water are the same thing, or two different elements? ------------------------------ As for the Dendro Hypostasis isn't it's name just the seventh letter of the Hebrew alphabet as it was the seventh Hypostasis they revealed? If you really based it on picking out a Major Arcana (using the old -1 calculation not the new +1 calculation) and you picked "The Lovers" as the best fit for Dendro Archon then I guess you got lucky because the stuff you said about The Lovers to make it a good fit was based on speculation about Sumeru that was inaccurate - stuff about it having two trees and maybe you have to pick which tree to burn? None of that happened making predictions based on it void surely? Well I just watched that whole video so I think I got that right. "there's the kusanali Jakata that predicted the continuation of a Rukkhadevata, the spirit living in the tree, in the new tree that grew from the branches of the original one" I haven't watched the video this prediction is in but if we already knew the names of the two Dendro Archons it's pretty obvious that the old one dies and is replaced by the new one. That's true of all the female Archons. Do you think the prediction added anything beyond what was known? Because the prediction is only correct in a vague metaphoric way. Kusanali does NOT continue Rukkhadevata's life, she is an entirely separate creature and the tree (Irmisul) is not replaced or regrown but only the avatar. Plus all the timey wimey stuff makes even the most vague prediction false, since Rukkhadevata now never existed to begin with. At any rate I'm not limiting this to your own predictions. I mean ANYONE's predictions-- that rely on real world lore. "why do you watch theory videos" There's plenty of bits of lore theory that doesn't use it. I think a lot of people just put it in that stuff once they already have a theory because of other considerations. And back in the day 3 years ago nobody knew any better. Could have worked. But it didn't. Now we know better. @@ShadowXImpact
@@DavidJohnson-ib1dh yes, two sets of elements: one from the Light Realm that the people of the Unified Nation knew of, and one from Teyvat. Orobashi did write those records but his knowledge was expanded by what he learned in Enkanomiya, reason why he uses those names. The people have been created at the end of the creation but did you ever ask yourself what did the ark have inside? if it's an Ark, as Before Sun and Moon calls it, and it's named when the people were created, then I deduce that the ark brought the "memories" (which in Genshin Impact is the closest thing to a soul) of the people that were then placed inside the bodies that were created. In that case, it would explain why the people of Enkanomiya knew of the dragons, since they spoke of them and they actually exist, meaning it's not some legend they came up with, but the actual history that happened before the humans were created. This would also explain why they were able to make a comparison between the fight between the PO and the Second, and the fight between the PO and the Dragons that happened before they were created. meaning, the souls existed and experienced it, only without a physical body. at least, that's my theory. I never associated the dragons with the Fatui, I don't know where you took that from. I don't think I've even talked about these two in the same video, to be honest. Pierro does know about the Old World, but you should also remember that the upside down city in the Chasm (Enkanomiya architecture, so a piece of the unified nation) looks very similar to Khaenir'ah, as Dainsleif openly stated, so if we found books in Enkanomiya that talked about the Old World, similar books could have been in Khaenri'ah, reason why the Khaenri'ahns knew that in Enkamoniya there was a book that they needed to steal and they knew, more or less, what was written on it before they even got it (which they didn't in the end, since the thieves were stopped before they could leave with the book). the question, basically, is: how does Enjou know what's written in the book if the Khaenri'ahns never managed to steal it? consequence: Khaenri'ah has something similar, maybe a book that's missing some parts, so they wanted the one in Enkanomiya, since it's not damaged and they could read the full story. What I'm saying about the elements is that, because the unified nation was created at the beginning of Teyvat (more or less), they had knowledge of those elements from the Light Realm, and they knew that the PO used those elements to create Teyvat. Since they already knew those elements, why call them differently? the elements of Teyvat are similar, are mirrored elements according to me, so whether you call them Earth or Geo, is more or less the same. it's the same kind of power, but with different sources. After the Second took charge, then they changed the names of the elements, probably to completely hide everything that had to do with the original Teyvat and the Old World, and start anew. No one other than the Archons, the Dragons, the people of Enkanomiya and Pierro uses those names for the elements, so they're connected to a specific set of knowledge that the Heavenly Principles want to hide from the people, just like the genesis of Teyvat in general. In short, Hydro is Water but that follows the rules of Teyvat. Hydro is the Teyvat version of Water. Teyvat has its own set of rules, and everything that comes from outside, doesn't work in Teyvat (or damages it), like Albedo's flower, for example. the elements ar the same but, at the same time, different. I honestly don't know how to explain what I'm thinking better than "mirrored elements". as for Dendro, yes it was the 7th letter, but I'm not allowing you to just say "you got lucky" just to downplay my research and make it stupid. first of all, the hypostases are 1 Aleph electro, 2 Beht anemo, 3 Gimel geo, 4 Daleth cryo, 5 He hydro, there's no 6, 7 He dendro and then 16 ayin pyro, so it's not like I just did plus one and I got the right one by chance. Second, the Lovers talk about the two trees, one of knowledge and one of life, and the card says that you need to pick one, just like Nahida had to pick between ensuring life on the world by fixing Irminsul or Rukkhadevata's life. I also said that, originally, there were two women on that card, representing Eve and Lilith, both the first women created by god, and we had Rukkhadevata and Nahida, both the "first" dendro Archon by the end of the archon quest. we also saw two different Irminsul trees, the pink one and the inner blueish one. of course, I can't see the future, I couldn't have gotten everything the writers decided to go there. if I could, I would have been playing the lottery everyday.... for Rukkhadevata, it is obvious that the old one dies and it's replaced by the current one, but was it obvious, without the Kusanali Jakata, how Nahida was going to replace Rukkhadevata? that she was going to be her continuation in the new "samsara", the same being but with a new life? because that's not what happened in Inazuma, they were twin sisters. I do think the prediction added a lot, because, again, unless you can see the future, if it wasn't for the names, no one could have even thought about a "spirit" of the tree dying but continuing as a new life in another tree grown from the branches of the old tree. unless the whole lore of Sumeru means nothing to you, that is. in that case, why are we even discussing? and yes, the prediction is correct only in part, because the writers OBVIOUSLY created a story specifically for Genshin Impact, using the Jakata Kusanali as an inspiration, not copying it. there's no new tree, yes, but there's the branch of the old tree that allowed the new spirit to be born. Rukkhadevata, by the way, in the clearest possible way, tells nahida that Rukkhadevata is Nahida, that Nahida is Rukkhadevata. she is her in the new samsara = she is her continuation but with a future and fate of its own. it's the same exact being but with a new life, new fate, new desired, new wishes. to you, basically, no one who uses those real life inspirations that the writers clearly used, are right or can never be right. just so you know, I will keep on using those real life bits because, it is clear to me, they they are way more valuable than you think. I think it's more like you don't want these bits to be useful more than anything. you just can't accept, for whatever reason, that the writers did use those real life bits to make their stories, and when it is too clear that they actually did, like with the Kusanali Jakata, you have to find a way to downplay it, even to the point of trying to ridicule people's efforts and research. That's actually pretty rude, to be honest, but I'm used to it after a year....
We don't know that Nibelung wielded one of the seven elements we know. It's more likely he wielded all or none of them, since he's talked about as if he's significantly separate from the other sovereigns. Nibelung could have been the Number 0 of the Dragon faction, the Way Pierro is number 0 of the Fatui, not counted among the numbered that are beneath him.
The problem is that Pierro being the number 0 is also another theory, not a fact, since there are 11 symbols on the Fatui circle and Pierrot's mask is one of them. Still, we were told, specifically, that there are seven dragons, so it wouldn't really make sense for an 8th dragon, the dragon number 0, to exist. Then, considering that the gnoses contain the authorities stolen from the dragons, and there are only 7 gnoses, why would Nibelung have a power that's different from the seven elements? He is just called "dragon king", he's not exactly talked about as if he's separate from the other dragons. Being the king can also just mean that he leads them, nothing more
@@amouramarie and that's exactly why we can theorize. It's the absence of conclusive evidence that allows everybody to come up with their own theories if they wish to XD
I'm sorry to keep going on about this (the confusion over the two element sets) but I feel like I'm picking up on you saying opposite things and I'm confused. I probably could do better if I had a bit more time right now. So once again I'll try to read back at you, what I think you said, which is a way for you to be able to tell me where I am wrong (if anywhere). Also: no acronyms, sure. OK so we have 3 broad periods of time: the time before PO came (dragon era), the time from the PO beating up the dragons until the 2nd Throne comes (PO era) and the time after the 2nd Throne (Celestia era). OK and during those periods of time there are always seven elements but in the last two era we have the "microcosm" of Teyvat the bubble world made by PO, and altered by 2nd Throne and inside THAT part of the planet (or whatever it is) ie in "Teyvat" we have one set of elements, which CORRESPOND to the original Light realm / dragon elements, but they're not identical. They are sort of similar, they presumably react similarly with each other, they're probably all "without will" as compared to Abyss/Celestial energy. So you might call them eg "Pyro" and "old Pyro" or "dragon Pyro" or "original Pyro" or "Light realm Pyro", but actually you're saying they have their own set of names and the name corresponding to Pyro is "Fire". Now I think you're saying that it's the Primordial One who comes up with the new set of elements. Maybe he modifies the original set somehow. It's not clear why he feels he needs a modified set of elements. But he makes the new world of Teyvat, the microcosm, the bubble world - from his new elements, his modified elements. Except for Egeria who for whatever reason is made of the old set of elements. In fact I guess it's the statement about Egeria and how it carefully differentiates in her description between something like old materials (Fire, Earth, Water, Air etc) and new materials that came with the Primordial One (Pyro, Geo, Hydro etc) - that description is taken as as evidence for the theory of these two sets of elements. OK so the new world (Teyvat, the microcosm, the bubble world) is created from the new Primordial One elements. Later on the 2nd Throne turns up and decides to make some big changes to Teyvat. They don't go as far as the Primordial One though. They don't make their own set of elements. They don't make a whole new microcosm / world. They just keep using the same stuff as the Primordial One using the same materials (Pyro, Cryo, Anemo etc) but they physically bury anything that might remind people about the existence of the Primordial One and the Shades. Now presumably it's possible there is a little leaking going on both materially - meaning a little bit of "Water" might slip through into Teyvat which consists of "Hydro". Now by "Water" I don't mean the common word water that just means what you drink for example. I mean the old element Water. It is unknown what happens when the two meet up or what relationship there is between the old element Water and the Primordial Sea water, but I'm guessing you might be leaning towards thinking the Primordial Sea water consists of old-element water, not Hydro. I mean it kind of would have to if the Primordial Sea is older than when the Primordial One came. Or are you saying the Primordial Sea and Sand are made by the Primordial One from the new elements? Or that they were made by the Primordial One but from the old elements not his new elements? Like Egeria was. Or are you saying well in one sense everything in Teyvat is created by Primordial One because he created Teyvat, but the Primordial Sea and Sand were made from material leaks from the old world of dragons and so they are made of the magical elements of Earth and Water and so you might say the actual Sea was new, but the material it consisted of was old? Like Egeria. Like these things were made on day one and maybe the Primordial One rolled them out fast before the new elements were really being used yet, so they got in before the Shade was used to building with the new elements or something. They're exceptions. Leaks the Primordial One knew about and didn't worry about fixing. The other type of leak we might see is linguistic. ie people using the word "water" for the element and not "hydro". It feels like the 2nd throne would not like this. Well I guess they wouldn't like either type of leak. So whenever someone uses the old words "Earth, Fire, Water" for magical elements that might be a little odd and need an explanation. Well that's all I have time for now.
So, pretty much what I said, except that Egeria is made from materials from Teyvat, not the light realm, as the wings say: (I'll try to quote, but I'm going by memory) without external materials. Also, the leaks I talk about, well that Apep actually talks about, are the abyss. The fight between the Primordial One and the second who came left the world almost destroyed. The rifts that broke the fabric of the world, most likely deep rifts, that were fixed by the nails. As for the linguistic aspect, I don't think the heavenly principles care too much, since the dragons freely use the names of the elements from their original world, so I guess it's not that much of a problem. As for the Primordial Sea, I don't really have a clear idea. It could be that the original Primordial Sea, the one in the Light Realm, is different from the one in the Human Realm, meaning that it may have been recreated in the human realm by the artificial heart that the shade created, Egeria. I say this because it feels like the PO needed a similar but new set of elements in order for them to adhere to the specific rules of Teyvat. We read in before sun and moon that the Primordial One sealed the path to temptation, which I deduced it's the powers of the dragons. Since the dragons do use their powers, which are supposed to be their original powers, albeit not complete, I suppose that the elements from the Light Realm are not dangerous to Teyvat as, for example, forbidden knowledge is, despite both the dragons' powers and forbidden knowledge are powers that come from beyond the microcosm of Teyvat. This is also why I think that the dragons' powers were actually used to create everything inside Teyvat, the abyss included, because it would explain why the dragons can actually use their powers without destroying Teyvat as Forbidden Knowledge almost did multiple times. I mean, it's a theory that could be right, since it makes sense if you think about it, but there are aspects to it that I can't really prove or disprove since we are still missing key information. Since it's a 50/50, it can be right or it can be wrong. With the other viewers, other than the Primordial Sand, we found the Primordial Sakura, which is supposed to be electro, so there seems to be a Primordial something for every element, considering that the thousand winds may also be the Primordial Winds at this point. I guess we'll learn a whole lot more about the Primordial Sea in 4.2, and that will potentially explain this theory as well.
Kind of a big picture theory that it isn't really appropriate to pick at over minor details but rather it would need an overarching assessment of its fit with everything. That's quite tricky. So... why does the 2nd Throne still kinda like humans at least to the point of apparently sending the gods to help out? Well the gods seem to think they are a positive force. Or are you thinking of going full on Gnosticism and saying the Archons are there to block humans from managing to reach enlightenment in some sense and are bad guys? Also if Celestia is 2nd Throne why is the Unknown God - or whoever Nahida refers to as the "Heavenly Principles" essentially "asleep" for the last 500 years? basically what is the relationship between Celestia and humans now? With the Primordial One it was pretty simple as we're told the Primordial One created and loves humans. But there's no reason an enemy of the Primordial One would like humans and the dragons seem pretty mixed about them. ------------------- The relationship between Fatui and dragons is hinted by two things (1) the use of "Old World" by Pierro as something of a goal for the Fatui. That assumes by "Old world" he means "before the Primordial One". (2) the 3-way political structure of the world according to Enkanomiya suggest 3 antagonist forces against the Traveler. We have the Abyss and Celestia and Fatui. If one of these three has to represent dragons (for the symmetry of the story) it ought to be the Fatui. And more recently of course you have theories about the source of the gnoses being dragons and the Fatui are collecting those gnoses. So if the only interesting thing to do with a gnosis is send it home then that means dragons and fatui are connected. Well I suggested this theory i think just after Caribert quest. Well at the time I figured that each of the three forces also had a descender since all were attempting to control the fate of teyvat and that requires a descender. But now it feels like the descenders may be identified with René's outside forces that are capable of altering the world formula, and so they are (except the last one) historic individuals not active players. And each past descender did indeed alter the world formula accounting for the biggest events in history. These two options are pretty close as they both assume descender = change fate of teyvat, the difference being whether they are spaced out politically or chronologically, respectively. @@ShadowXImpact
@@DavidJohnson-ib1dh well, what I think is that there are two possibilities: 1) the Primordial One is a loving god (or Aeon, to be honest, so Sophia) and he was taken away by the Second who came (which would be another Aeon, Theletos), leaving its Heavenly Principles, something like the Second's shades basically, in Teyvat to rule over that creation. In that case, the Heavenly Principles don't really need to love the people or anybody in general, they may just want to rule over the world. I mean, they did destroy entire civilizations with the nails, so it doesn't really feel like an act of love. they could have evacuated the people before sending down the nails, but they didn't; 2) the Primordial One is not really a good being and the Second defeated him because he's evil. If we think about it, if no one goes against the rules of the Heavenly Principles, which don't feel like they're that bad to begin with since people are actually free to live in peace, nothing bad happens. If they do something that puts the world at risk, then they retaliate. We could say that they indeed saved Teyvat from destruction by sending the nail. Yes, civilizations were destroyed, but they also rebelled against the Heavenly Principles and tried to obtain powers that they shouldn't own nor want. They were consumed by greed and they were punished as a consequence, with a death sentence considering that their actions may have also put the world on the brink of destruction. As for the Gods, not all of them see the Heavenly Principles as good beings. Venti seems to be either scared or disgusted just by thinking about them, Makoto said that they needed to "break free from the clutches of the Heavenly Principles", which makes them sound evil. Ei believed that she had to adhere to the full extent of her powers to the Heavenly Principles in order for things never to change, so that nothing bad would happen again, which feels like a decision made out of fear. As for Gnosticism, that's what makes me think that the Primordial One may be Sophia, the shades are the Demiurge (only, in this case, it's split in 4), Theletos, Sophia's Syzygy, was sent to the earth to bring Sophia back to the Pleroma (so the Primordial One is not in Teyvat anymore) and he also brought Jesus and the Holy Spirit (which is considered a female entity) to give humans gnosis to be able to go back to the spiritual world upon death, which is similar to the people receiving their visions, becoming allogenes, so being granted the chance to ascend to the heavens. In this case, Sophia, the Primordial One, is neither good nor evil, and so is Theletos, the Second. As for Pierro, I think I wrote it to you (the comments are getting mixed up in my brain right now), but I think that Khaenri'ah, most likely build on the ruins of another section of the unified nation (Dainsleif recognizes the upside down city architectural style) may have had incomplete documents that talked about the Old World, the Primordial One, the Unified Nation and so on, reason why they knew that they had to acquire/steal Before Sun and Moon in Enkanomiya, despite that nation having been sealed off from the world for eons and no one even knew that it existed. Enjou knows what's supposed to be written on the book, although they were never able to obtain it. So, Pierro, as one of the court mages, most likely read those documents they had in Khaenri'ah, which explains why he knows about the Old World. It's not clear, though, if the other Fatui or even the Tsaritsa know about it. Pierro does have a goal that involves the Old World, and what I think it is, it's finally breaking the eggshell, releasing Teyvat on the Old World, which, to me, is the only reason why he would tell Signora that her resting peace would be the entirety of the Old World. This brings me to my own theory about why they're collecting the gnoses, which I think I talked about in my Snezhnaya video. I think that the Tsaritsa lost someone dear to her, which made her this cold as a defensive mechanism not to be hurt again. Like "If I don't care about anybody, I will never suffer for anybody's loss ever again" kind of thing. Now, I still think she lost a daughter because Ei lost a twin sister, but she didn't go psycho against the Heavenly Principles, so the only other family member that can be dearer than a twin sister, is a son or daughter. By gathering the seven gnoses, Pierro may have promised to use them to summon the Shades, specifically Istaroth, since she has the power to go back in time and create a whole different timeline. I do think that Barbatos and Istaroth share the same body, by the way, so when Venti inexplicably goes to sleep for centuries on end, Istaroth is awake, meaning that Pierro will fake a Cataclysm 2.0 to summon Istaroth in Snezhnaya and use the powers of the Gnoses to steal her time powers. Now, Pierro promised the Tsaritsa to go back in time to before the Cataclysm started and prevent her dear one's death from ever happening, but he's going to reveal his true goals and betray the Tsatitsa: he wants to go back to Khaenri'ah before the Cataclysm (hence, the last chapter in the Travail video is hidden, because it's something that happens chronologically before the prologue in Mondstadt) to make it worse and actually destroy the fabric of reality, the eggshell that contains Teyvat, releasing the world on the Old World. He does have 500 years worth of research, especially the one in the Abyss where he sent Scaramouche, to now know exactly how to break everything before the Heavenly Principles could act and stop him. Of course, this is a theory I have, based on very little proof. more than a theory, it's a hunch that very well be wrong, but it's still possible. So far, we didn't get anything that would make it definitely wrong as well as definitely right, so I'll stick to it. As for the Descenders, they do sound like they all brought a change in Fate in Teyvat, since they are the only ones who can actually do that, considering they don't exist from Irminsul point of view, so they're unpredictable. The Heavenly Principles changed Teyvat; I still think the two from the Battlepass are the second Descenders, who caused the Seelie's fall. They are shown in front of a verdant Vindagnyr, so they came down to Teyvat probably around the time the Nails descended. And, it may sound stupid, but I think the male heir is Imunlaukr; The third ones are pretty much unknown, but considering the chronology, if we have a descender every time an era ends, then they would have come around the time the Archon War began. So you would have a Descender between the Primordial One era and the new Teyvat, a Descender between the new Teyvat and the age of the Gods (what comes after the nails descended), one between the age of the Gods and the age of the Archons, and one between the Age of the Archons and whatever comes next, which will be decided by our traveler's influence on Teyvat. Also, the external factor René talked about (although he had no idea he even actually existed), I think it's the Traveler, since he, for obvious reasons, will prevent the Apocalypse from happening.
It seems pretty obvious that René's external factor will be the Traveler, given the whole set up of the narrative and the prophecy about the Traveler taking over the job of the Keep who is fading. And since the Traveler is said to be the last Descender that this implies all Descender can change the fate of Teyvat, which was pretty obvious already since they have some measure of immunity to the effects of Irminsul. They are external to Irminsul and can therefore have power over it, whereas it has no power over the Descender. Of course this also means it's pretty obvious that Irminsul samsaras do in fact change all of reality (past, present and future) instead of changing "only memories" which was always a dumb idea. LOL, otherwise you'd have to say the end of the game is Traveler rescuing the world only in terms of memories changed to pretend they did and not in reality. Well if everyone's dead then there's not so many memories to change. The whole idea of "only memories" was absurd from the beginning since we see the fate of Teyvat changed (not memories) in Inazuma too. If we do identify Descenders with large scale overhauls of the fate of Teyvat and the main 3 events are (1) Primordial One creating Teyvat (2) 2nd Throne messing it up (4) Traveler saving the world then yes the 3rd Descender and 3rd event must lie in between the end of the 2nd Throne's war and the present day. Now you're creating an event when the Nails fall which you also identify as the time the Seelie's get nerfed and perhaps the gods first appear. You also suggest a point when the Archon war starts, and possibly when it ends. But to my mind the obvious candidate event is the Cataclysm itself. That would suggest the 3rd Descender was around in Teyvat 500 years ago, and they either caused the Cataclysm, or else they mitigated the Cataclysm so that it wasn't as bad as it would have been otherwise. Either way they changed fate - changed the outcome of the World Forumla. Well we know the result of the World Formula changed at least once before because René reports that in the ancient texts he found something similar to a world formula prophecy where the predicted result was infinite cycling (like the old Dr Bondi approach to the Big Bang) but when René ran the numbers he predicted a Big Crash. Therefore between these two calculations the fate of Teyvat had been changed. Incidentally how on earth did these ancient records get preserved? Well how old were they anyway? One source seems to be Khaenri'ah and another possible source is Remuria. However the predictions may date to far earlier even than that. Whoever writes that the world is cycling presumably cannot have lived through a cycle, which would be impossible, but rather is managing to deuce it. They would need to have some information (data / history) survive a cycle, and too their own deductions and predictions would have to be secured in a way to survive the next cycle's end. Now that's trivial if by "cycle" all that is meant is a local flooding of Fontaine. Put it in a water proof box, or send it to another nation. You're done. But it feels as if they're talking about more than just Fontaine here. Having said that the small feature of René's Ordo's doomsday clock hitting zero in the 4.2 trailer suggests René's doomsday has now arrived in 4.2 so is all that stuff just local to Fontaine after all? Assuming the cycles are all-Teyvat ending events the preservation of data is a problem, but not insurmountable, as we see with Nahida. Therefore the author of the infinite cycling world formula prophecy could have lived prior to the 2nd Throne. That would allow for the 2nd Throne as Descender 2 to be the one who changes the fate of Teyvat from infinite cycling to "everyone dies in about 8000 years". 8000 years later maybe the Cataclysm is the predicted Apocalypse date but something happens to change fate again and this delays the Apocalypse for another 500 years or so. This post-3rd Descender fate is the one René calculates. Now if you want to place the author of the infinite cycling world forumla calculation / prediction as living in post-2nd Throne war Teyvat then the fate that the 2nd Descender brings about is the infinite cycling one, and the 3rd Descender is the one who changes the fate to become "world doomed in a few thousand years". I think it is a better fit for the Primordial One to be the guy who wants infinite cycling and the 2nd Descender breaks that (aka "break through shackles to the land" as Goddess of Flowers says). But your timing and your putting the Tiara sets post 2nd Throne war means you'd want the 2nd Throne to be the guy who changes the fate of Teyvat to be infinite cycling. then you need the 3rd Descender to stop that fate and introduce the Apocalypse scenario that René calculates. Again all this fate changing is through the Irminsul (to which Descenders are immune) and hence Irminsul changes fate for real and doesn't just change memories. @@ShadowXImpact
A thought occurred to me that as for examples of real world lore predicting in-game lore it would be best to avoid our own stuff because it gets personal too easily. Do you happen to recall any time any OTHER lore theorist used real world lore to predict something in-game? or as the basis of a theory that worked out / appears to have worked out? As far as I can see there are oddly few attempts to predict things from real-world lore. I guess the failure of Chess theory to predict the chess piece of the Inazuma gnosis (they said a Knight and it appears to be a Bishop). I think maybe back in the day Slime theory said there'd be two Electro Archons which was false of course. Dead ones don't count as we all knew all the female Archons had a prior (dead) Archon that had been replaced since v1 when Zhongli says only Venti and he are the originals. Harbinger personalities seem almost a good match for the exact opposite of the Comedia. Dottore for example is not an intellectual light weight who pretends to be smart. Capitano is not a coward and a blow-hard. Nor has anyone predicted the Harbinger constellations on the basis of the real world lore of the symbols on the wheel. Has anyone ever predicted an Ars Goetia name in advance? Or predicted what an Archon will do or be like on the basis of their name? Comparisons with characters (or lore) from Honkai Impact 3 have always failed. Celstia isn't bombing cities because they get too high tech for fear of causing a Honkai incident. Nobody predicts what a character will do or what will happen to them on the basis of visual similarity to characters in HI3. Same for comparisons between in-game gods and mythological real-world gods' lore. And clearly intended comparisons are often ignored, like Fischl has clear comparisons with Odin (one eye, Germanic language, raven pet, claims to be a god of judgement, has lightning powers) but nobody says Fischl has a son called Thor or that she lost her eye by trading it for knowledge of the future. In fact if anything they'd say King Irmin is Odin even though Fischl has more identifiers in common. It's been over 3 years. Where is the fruit of this approach that, as you say, most lore theorists adopt?
Well, you don't really get to tell people what they should do or not, so even if you disagree with using pretty much anything, or even trying to predict something at all, it doesn't mean that people will do as you say. The same goes for the concept of "other theorists". I am an individual, I decide for my channel. I don't ride the wave of other theorists, nor do I even watch their videos before making my own, in order to remain unbiased and make a video that reflects only my own thoughts. Just because others do or don't do something, it doesn't mean that I'll do the same. I'm not a mime nor a parrot. This is entirely a viewer problem. If the viewer thinks that whatever the creator says or does is pointless, rather than asking the creator to stop doing what you think is wrong, the viewer should ask themselves "why am I watching something that will never reflect what I want?". I don't like youtube videos about, i don't know, people using a ouijia board in an old abandoned asylum. I'm not going to tell the creator to stop, I'll simply don't watch it...
And even if tomorrow the devs decided to straight out say "yes, we just used random mythical names just because we liked them, but we never even read their stories", I still wouldn't regret everything I've done up until now. I will have learned so many things I didn't know anyway, and my viewers may have learned those same, never before heard thing. So to me, it would still be a win. Then why would I even stop? That's, obviously, ignoring the fact that I disagree with your views, entirely...
Interesting theory. I can see “Water, Earth, Fire, Air” being the primordial elements since they represent the four states of matter. Makes me wonder if there may me some Avatar references to come. And if the Traveler is the one who will bring balance. That said, I wonder that secrets we will uncover in the nation of Pyro?
So you're hypothesizing the Nails had different elemental powers, although they appear to be the same. But the elemental powers you say came from the dragons? But then you list elements that you say should be associated not with the dragons but with the Primordial One? Like Ice (not Cryo), Earth (not Geo), Void (not Electro) and btw under that design you'd have to make Tsurumi Water since fog is made of Water which the ancients would have known. Next you say the Nail sent had the same element as the one used to create that land in the first place but this makes no sense of the timeline as you've only talked about the 2nd throne / HP / Celestia creating new land with their different elements. Are you saying the PO also did this? So you're saying the PO made Mondstadt with Ice, Sumeru with Earth, and Liyue with "Void"? 9:26 when you say "created this current version of Teyvat" did you mean to say "the version of Teyvat that the PO created and was destroyed by the 2nd throne / HP / Celestia? I guess I need to go back and look at the old videos you mentioned because I am totally not getting what you are describing. But it feels like some are pretty old and you might have changed your mind. But basically the factoids doing the heavy lifting with this lore are (1) the idea that the 2nd throne won the war and is now calling itself HP or Celestia (2) that the six elements mentioned in Enkanomiya are different from Teyvat's seven elements and that for a while the entire physics of Teyvat used those elements not the current seven.
technically, the nails are not the same. look at the two we can actually see, and you'll see that there are different "symbols" going around them: the chasm one has cubes, while the skyfrost one has chunks of ice circling around it. I don't even know where you think I said that ice, earth, void, etc, are related to the primordial one and not the dragons, since I've always said that those are the powers of the dragons that the primordial one took and then used. Yes, Tsurumi's fog could be water as well, it's no coincidence I said "you decide", although the ancients would have also known ice and fire, so I really don't see the difference there. We don't know if Tsurumi Island was frozen this long ago, and if it was, like it was the rest of the world (that is, the land around Sal Vindagnyr), if the nail was fire, it would have created the fog... again, overcomplicating things and trying too hard to find a fault in the theory, as if that made a difference of whatever, and you end up confusing yourself to the point I barely understand what you're trying to say. The nails having the elementS used for the creation of Teyvat, first of all. I never said that the Second had a completely new set of elements, that's something you came up with, since I said that they used the powers/elements that the Primordial One took from the Dragons, powers that are most likely in the heavens. I specifically said that, since the nails use the elementS used in the creation, then the result of their interaction with the land, uses those same powerS of creation, but that doesn't mean that Mondstadt was created with Ice just because the nail was imbued with the power of Ice. as always, most of the times, the easiest explanation may be the better one. that specific nail had the power of Ice. nothing more. No, when I say "this current version of Teyvat", it literally means what I said, "the current version of Teyvat". the Primordial One created the first version with the unified nation, the second arrived, fought the primordial one, (the second) won and earned the right to shape the world, so they laid down another layer of everything and created their own version of Teyvat, which is, like I said, "the current version of Teyvat". Of course, some of the things I said in the old videos may be completely outdated considering the knowledge we have now. Still, yes, I think the second who came won the war and they are the Heavenly Principles, most likely the three entities from the manga that Venti either despises or is afraid of; the six elements (plus one for Nibelung) are the elements of the Light Realm that were, I think, used to create the elements that now exist in Teyvat. So they're different as in the Teyvat elements mirror the elements from the Light Realm. That's what I think it means for Egeria to be created to be like the Water Dragon but with elements of Teyvat.
OH I thought you might have deleted this comment - it's not showing up. OK. At the moment I'm just trying to get the story straight by attempting to repeat it back to you in my own words and that's clearly revealing a lot of errors, which is the purpose so.... good? Yeah the Nails are a little different. But not in ways suggestive of a specific element to my mind. OK... so the Enkanomiyan set is the dragon powers, or the AC's words to describe the dragon powers, that the PO took and used to create PO-Teyvat over the top of dragon-Teyvat I guess? So it's layer on layer on layer? But obviously the PO had a lot of power before taking any from the dragons or else how did it beat the dragons, right? But if the PO brought any alien elements or powers they aren't used to make PO-Teyvat but instead only the dragon-Teyvat elements with the Enkanomiyan set names (Earth, Water etc). Hm. That makes the Tiara artifacts harder to fit. They mention Seelies which dates them to the PO-era as Seelies are the servants of the PO, right? But they use words from the 2nd Throne's elemental set, the "Teyvat" set, the regular set of names? You're saying the Nails are sent down by the PO then? because you gave them Enkanomiyan styled element words? And then the 2nd Throne lays down a new layer of material to cover up the PO-Stuff which you say explains a lot of Enkanloiyan architecture buried underground. But the 2nd Throne's element set (Teyvat set "Cryo, Pyro, Anemo etc") is simply a word change? or are there 14 elements? So when you say the 2nd throne lays down a new level of stuff it's not to replace the physics of the world of Teyvat but just to bury old buildings that would drop a clue about the existence of the prior regime? @@ShadowXImpact
@@DavidJohnson-ib1dh I've never deleted any comment on this channel, so unless you're using the worst swearwords to insult me, I'm not deleting comments. oh, well, if you insulted me with those words, the post would be stopped by RUclips for review in the first place. Let's see the errors..... well, Susty's cubes do catch and remove objects, since she removed an entire explosion, so the cubes around the Nail in the Chasm do fit the idea of void erasing everything in its path. The ice around the skyfrost nail is pretty explanatory.... I have no idea what you wrote, also because I have a hard time with acronyms and I can't figure out what AC is. still, just to be clear, although I physically drew this in my last video: Old world = actual planet, where the Dragons lived Microcosm of Teyvat = if you want to call it a "bubble universe", although "microcosm" is pretty explanatory. it's the whole thing in which there's the inhabitable half and the abyss half With that being said: 1) phanes creates a microcosm. In the microcosm there's Teyvat. 2) the Shades create a living half of the microcosm with mountains, rivers, oceans, animals, fish, plants and then humans. 3) PO and Second fight. Second wins. Second lays down a new layer that buries the land the PO created and builds something new, which is what we are exploring now. For the elements, once again, the PO obviously had his own powers, otherwise he couldn't have defeated the dragons, that's a given. now, THIS IS MY THEORY: I think Teyvat was supposed to be a nursery for the humans so that, when the old world was terraformed, the Teyvat microcosm would have been released (break the eggshell) on the "old world", but with the Second's interruption, the PO never had the chance to complete his work. This means that the Teyvat Elements mirror the Light Realm elements because they were supposed to merge once the world was released. The PO had the shades recreate the seven nations that also existed on the Old World for a reason, not out of a whim. you are free to believe this theory or not, just learn to agree to disagree. The tiaras are not harder to fit. they describe the world from the creation of this new layer to the celestial nails, which is also when the seelie were expelled from the heavens. Yes, they existed since the PO most likely, but with a new ruler, there's a chance that they were forced to just follow their rules since they did win against the PO. And before you say it, we know that the seelie were expelled from the heavens when the nails came down because Nabu Malikata's first memory on Teyvat is her walking in the Desert, which was created by the Nail. No. If I said that the PO is not ruling over Teyvat, how could I ever said that he sent down the Nails? this is logic, not even a theory. I just said what Before Sun and Moon says: the heavens were created, as well as everything inside Teyvat, after the Dragons were defeated. If everything in Teyvat was created with elements that mirror those from the Light Realm, then it is possible that the heavens, that are outside Tevyat (the loading screen where we found Susty) may have also been created with the elements of the dragons. a piece of that heaven then broke because of the fight and that may be the floating celestia's creation story, since it also seems to have those pillars all around, so the nails may have come from that floating Island. by the way, and I thought I made it clear, but probably I didn't, I used the different names to make it easier for the viewers to understand when I was talking about the Elements of the Light Realm and when I was talking about the Elements of the Human Realm. YES, the Second buried the previous buildings to do exactly what we know they wanted to do: completely erase any trace of everything that existed before them. and no, once again, the 7 current elements were NOT created by the second who came. they were created by the shades that created Teyvat. again, the wings from Fontaine, there is a shade who used materials from this world to create something that existed in the Light Realm, meaning that these Teyvat materials have the same or very similar properties as the original Old World (the external) materials.
Oh I didn't mean to suggest you'd deleted it - your own post that is. maybe it was a refreshing issue. I just wasn't seeing it on the page but only through the "replies to you" feature. @@ShadowXImpact
Wonder 2 things. Does the nails were really send voluntarily ? And does the nails have elements ? Like a desert and a frozen mountain? That kinda opposite for things that are mostly identical
Well, Nahida said that the nails were used to fix the land, so it makes me think that they were sent in specific places for a specific reason, rather than them falling all at once without any reason. Then there's also Apep who was gathering Forbidden Knowledge right in the place where one of the nails descended on, so it really sounds intentional. As for the nails having elements, we'll that's the whole theory here. Since there was a Primordial Sand and the rainforest was transformed into a desert, so sand, it makes me think that they have those elements inside. Same for Vindagnyr, it became frozen, which is another element, ice. Unless they have the power of time and they regressed back to what they were in the beginning, since the rainforest may have been a desert at the beginning, and we know Sal Vindagnyr was frozen like the rest of the land, before being a verdant mountain, while tsurumi island may have reverted back to the moment in which fire melted the ice, but I don't know how I would feel about it. Apep was hit by a nail, but she didn't regress to a previous state, so I'm more inclined to think they have the power of creation inside of them, since they (the Heavens) were also created after the dragons were defeated by the Primordial One
@@ShadowXImpact since we don't have a clear chronology on their fall, only approximation, I won't say they all fall down at the same time. And we know there was a battle between the Primordial one and the 2nd throne. It not a theory, just an observation, but the nails seem to have been broken from a bigger structure rather than being cut or even less likely made specifically for being send down. Maybe apep was just at the bad place at the bad time xD
@@hirods9889 but they did come down all at the same time. Kapatcir witnessed the descent of multiple objects from the sky, one of which fell on Tsurumi Island, causing the fog, so she was talking about the nails. And yeah, they look like they broke of from somewhere, but it could also be the result of millennia wearing them down, except for the one on dragonspine that straight up broke for some reason when it landed. It feels like they were, indeed, broken off from something and sent down, like a very last minute emergency measure, so they were like "I don't have the time to be gentle, just break them off from where they are and throw them down" kinda thing. It's also very strange that there is one for each nation specifically, so it would be a rather precise random occurrence. On the other hand, we know that Celestia, the floating island, has some columns around it, and it was stationed above dragonspine and later it moved to Fontaine, so maybe they come from there, a little island that broke off from the Heavens before Teyvat was capsized. It went up in the sky, threw the nails down, and then settled down above Fontaine for some reason we will probably find out about very soon
@@ShadowXImpact true, it would be an odd occurrence if it was accidental, but it's as weird as it has one of them for each nations. I don't know how big the floating island is, but it's doesn't seem to be able to cover a whole nation, so the nails ''falling'' from there all at once on such a large distances is also odd
@@hirods9889 yeah, unless the island went to the middle of the sky, very high, and shot them down in the direction they needed to go, but at this point it feels like I'm trying to find a way to make it work. Still, if Teyvat is capsized, then there should be nothing above the sky, since it should be on the ground or at least pointing downward, so I can't find an explanation to where they could have come from other than the floating island...
I believe primordial one is still alive but can't return to teyvat anymore and all these fighting makes it sound like it is a bit of an gamble where they wager whoever wins gets to reshape the land thus using divine nails 2nd throne or 2nd who came also sounds like different people because nibelung is most likely the 2nd who came which we know he wasn't successful in overthrowing and teyvat almost got obliterated and here i think the current master of heavenly principles comes a traveler from afar overthrown the god of humans and decided to rule the land but not everything went as he wanted to he started getting anxious and have doubts that's why i think zhongli is kinda important he seems like he knows current master of heaven but doesn't want to talk while venti in manga mentions celestia as he is remembering the old times it's kinda weird how these 2 gods who doesn't want to share much knows alot
Well, if the shades are copies of the Primordial One, I would think that they would have also died if he died, so him being unable to come back or, actually, him being imprisoned makes sense. I didn't understand what you said about Nibelung, though. Did you say he is the second who came? Because the dragons fought against the heavenly principles and lost, but above all, Nibelung died and has come back to life only after Deshret's death. Zhongli and Venti have to know who the 3 heavenly principles, the ones we see in the Manga. Most likely, the Tsaritsa also knows them, and since Ei was always with Makoto, she probably knows them too. I mean, they made them the Archons and gave them the gnosis, so it should be normal for them, at least the original Archons, to have met them As for the fact that they don't share much about them, it's kinda obvious. We're talking about the beings that rule the entire world, so they most likely can't talk about them at all
I hope a 2nd comment is fine, but I just went through all the domain descriptions, I can't believe I never read some of them. They're so full of lore tid-bits! For one, a confirmation that Inazuma was connected to Teyvat, which I didn't know there was any actual evidence of it it's not really mentioned anywhere else I don't think From the "Violet Court" domain description: "Sometime in the ancient past, the mountains rose higher than the skies, and the earth was larger than heaven's dome. But one day, the mirror shattered, and the oceans arose. In these legends, this caused the court of the primeval sakura to become sundered from the other islands." Which ALSO made me wonder me maybe this 'Primeval Sakura' is the primordial equivalent for Inazuma?? 🤔 Also from "Midsummer Courtyard": "With the fall of the ancient lost civilization, the once prosperous and magnificent Sommernachtgarten was also buried underground, leaving only its ancient trees and stones to remember its past glory." 'Sommernachtgarten' suspiciously reminds me of Fischl/Amy....maybe there's much more to the story than we think?
Don't worry, you can post as much as you want, it's not a problem. I don't know if this Primordial Sakura is another actual Primordial thing like the sand and the sea, but at this point it very well may be. Since the Sakura trees do electrocute people if there's a problem with them, it could be the actual first thunder that pierced the sky. As for inazuma becoming an Archipelago, that makes sense. If anything, it makea little sense that Inazuma is the only nation that doesn't seem to fit with the rest of Teyvat, being an Archipelago that far off from everything else. In this case, anyway, it enforces my idea that the land was created anew and then the water appeared, which in this case it broke inazuma off from the main pangea. As for the sommernachtgarten, yeah it sounds like Fischl, but I think it's more like the stories she read as a child were based on ancient myths, like this sommernachtgarten.
@ShadowX5452Gaming I'm incredibly intrigued by the "primordial" stuff now, especially since you told us about the primordial sands just fits so nicely. I really wanna know if there's an equivalent for geo & anemo lol I've been looking 🥹 And yeah fischl I think might just be coincidence too, but it was still a surprise for me to see one of the places in the book irl in Teyvat 🤯
@@ehlannahfhey2347 well, for geo should be sand. For anemo, that's a good question! Maybe it's the air itself that has always been Primordial, although, at this point, I would expect some kind of tornado. We do be missing the Dornman Port area, maybe that's where we'll find it!
@ShadowX5452Gaming If the primordial sands are geo do we have an equivalent for dendro? Like a primordial tree? I assume the sands were for dendro cuz Sumeru but it would definitely make sense for geo/earth as well. Maybe we don't have one cuz of the earth, fire, wind, water, ether, and void thing? 🤔
OK I'm confused. You're currently saying the Primordial One is different from the Heavenly Principles / Celestia which you are now saying is the 2nd throne? Doesn't that mean that you'd need THREE sets of seven or eight elements now? The set from the dragons, the set from the Primordial One and finally the set for the HP / Celestia / 2nd Throne? And if you are saying there was a bunch of weird climate stuff going on as the 2nd throne / HP / Celestia altered things and that is recorded on the tiara artifact sets, then isn't that after the Seelie got nerfed whereas the Tiara sets reference the Seelie? And you're saying the underground Enkanomiya-like buildings were built deliberately underground to avoid these climate changes? But to me it feels like for each Tiara set the story being told is a thriving human society where everything is going well - up to the end. That doesn't seem like an underground existence. It would be more like "when can we get out of this cave?" than "will this wonderful prosperous life ever end?" 7:10 this doesn't work. You say Air and Earth already existed -- didn't water already exist too? And Electro is clearly just another reactive element in the Tiara set. Not "the Void" or whatever. Why do you have Dendro where Electro should be according to the Tiara sets? No, the Tiara set clearly are using the seven elements of Teyvat not just in name but in their qualities. That's why they only list the reactive elements. Cryo, Pyro, Hydro, Electro. That list makes no sense from the point of view of your hypothetical Greek cultural list of "seven" elements (really six). And anyway isn't the Teyvat seven what you're saying the 2nd Throne / HP / Celestia faction uses? So we wouldn't expect the Enkanomiyan names here anyway would we?
you know, the things I said are actually way easier than what you think, but I think you do tend to overcomplicate what I say and you end up being confused. The Primordial One being different from the Heavenly Principles: yes, they're not the same, and it's Apep the one who pretty much confirmed it, rather than my theory. She talks about the Usurper, the Primordial One, and he's considered as such because he usurped the dragons' powers, and the outsiders, the heavenly principles (plural just like outsiderS), the ones who won that war and earned the right to shape the world as they saw fit. Now, what do you mean with three sets of seven or eight elements? why would the heavenly principles have other elements if they come from the actual universe, the same place where the dragon lived? only Teyvat is a microcosm separate from the universe and has its own rules. everything else, what's outside (the old world and the rest of the universe, where the second who came, came) follow the original set of elements. No, the tiaras, according to me, describe the time from after the world was recreated by the second who came (as Apep said), up until the world was entirely livable, but it specifically describes the evolution of the new world on Sal Vindagnyr, since the story is about the priests going down in a domain to ask the Heavens for answers, which is the Peak of Vindagnyr domain. the people who settled on that mountain, faced the icy winds until they found this verdant mountain, but that doesn't mean that everybody in the rest of the world had the same idea. On Tsurumi Island, we know that the people lived underground because of the Murals that talk about things that existed before the nails came down, like the three moons. I also never said that those buildings were built by those people. I said that those were the buildings of the first civilization that were covered by the new layer of land that the Heavenly Principles laid down to create their own version of Teyvat, so those buildings have always been there. just because the Tiaras didn't specifically talk about Dendro, it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, otherwise even air and earth, or anemo and geo, shouldn't exist. on the other hand, Air obviously exists since they had to breathe to live, earth exists because people don't levitate over nothingness, and, as a consequence, since the mountain was verdant, it means that plants had to have grown, and plants is Dendro. again, overcomplicating stuff just to deny the theory, as usual, I guess. Also, I'm using the enkanomiyan names mainly because, if Teyvat was created from the materials of the Old World, then if it was actually recreated a second time by the Heavenly Principles, they may have used the same powers and elements, hence the old names rather then the modern ones. That list doesn't make sense for you, that's okay. I still think it's important, especially since the dragons are named after the elements from that list and not the elements of our characters. if that means nothing to you, that's okay. As I always say, I'm not here to convince people that I'm right, I'm here to share my ideas.
@@oscarlara2040 I sure hope so! I mean, we're starting to deal with the Primordial elements, so we're definitely going to dive deep into this side of the lore the more we go forward with the story. We're also halfway through the story, considering there's an 8th chapter in Khaenri'ah, so they have to give us more now!
![[4.6] How Celestia Stole Teyvat - A Genshin Impact Theory](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yKq6E3o5jsA/mqdefault.jpg)
Primordial... Sand? I don’t like sand. It’s coarse and rough and irritating… and it gets everywhere
In the other hand, I love sand! Be it because I grew up playing tomb raider, so it was all about Egypt everywhere! I was so excited when the desert of Sumeru was released, because just the sight gives me a sense of calmness
"I cannot help but feel that you bringing me here is some sort of an assasination attempt"
@@Sofisasam well yeah, I guess in his case, the calmness may be a little more "permanent" ahhahahaha
Eyy I love to think of the enigma of the Nails. Still hoping we'll get to see one being deployed and maybe saving the people from that region before it falls.
Very cool theory Shadow!
I'm happy you liked the video!!!
A nail descending live would be really cool, also because we would see where it actually comes from!
Though, I doubt that's going to happen, sadly!
@@ShadowXImpact yeah I doubt it too sadly, but one can dream!
@@fardareismai4495 that's something no one can take from us!!!
Oh so the thing you said you stumbled upon was the domain description. I’ve had that particular domain description on my mind for a while now, but I’ve never really been able to figure out what it means. I’ve kept on eye on domain descriptions since around late Inazuma/early Sumeru, but I became more intent on reading and thinking about them in 3.0 because the Spire of Solitary Enlightenment description contains what is likely one of the only references to the civilization beneath the Chasm.
I think we tend to see Nails in the later areas for each region, but since Fontaine’s basically only missing two areas -the tower area and Mont Esus- and we know we’re getting the area around the tower and the remainder of Erinnyes because of PlayStation, the Fontaine Nail or its corresponding Irminsul branch could be in-game as soon as 4.2.
I’m still not sure how to treat that blog post since I did read it, not thinking it was an accident. I remember when 2.7 was delayed they didn’t delay Heizou’s announcement, but this time it did seem unintentional. For various reasons I was really looking forward to the livestream being on that date, and the new date doesn’t work quite as well for me. Not knowing if I should discuss what I saw in the blog post has been difficult.
Oh, so we're finally getting the tower? I wonder if it's actually the tower of Remuria from history or if it's something entirely different, although it does fit the description. As for the Irminsul branch, I guess it's the yellow weeping willow we all saw on Moosashi's channel and that we can actually see the blob version from the game with 4.1.
Anyway, you should keep the PS info until after the livestream has been shown, because, until then, it's basically a leak, although I don't really know what it said, so I can't say how much of a leak it is. Since it was supposed to come out with the livestream, I could guess there's also the new weekly boss in it, too, especially since the boss theme has been popping up in my recommended section....
If there is (and I think it does) a nail in Fontaine, I think it's going to be where Remuria was supposed to be. If the book is even remotely reliable, then Capitolium was near a huge mountain, so I guess the huge mountain near the Court of Fontaine, although Petrichor has a ton of Remuria ruins, which is weird, and the town is supposed to be near a massive waterfall. So, crazy idea is that the waterfall is actually a hole in the sea near Petrichor, so where the nail went through, or the town is near the huge mountain and there's a waterfall coming down from it...
As for the domain in Inazuma, I basically clicked the wrong thing and I saw the description! I don't even think I've ever got anything from that domain in general because, when I went inside, I didn't even remember having seen it before XD
I do read the domains descriptions, I started doing it since Sumeru consistently now that I think about it, and then I just opened every single domain in the other three nations to read what they said, so I must have skipped it entirely, probably because there's the puppet domain and the Sakura tree and the teleporter all in one place almost!
@@ShadowXImpact I really don't think the Big Tower™ is the Remurian Tower. It may be built where it once stood, but it's certainly not the original. I mean cmon, not only is it steampunky as hell which does not match Remuria's more "artful" style, but the Remurian Tower should be half underwater by now if the waterline of Fontaine has elevated high enough to swallow entire cities and buildings...
@@Whenpigfly666 yeah, it shouldn't be the actual tower of Remuria. The thing is that in the history, it specifically says that is was "uprooted", and if you look at it, it's on a piece of land, like a little island, that is floating over the water, which is really weird but fits with the concept of being "uprooted".
It does say that it drowned in the titanic waves, but if we want to stretch it, after the wave is gone, the tower would still be there, it never specifically said that it drowned in the actual lake.
Anyway, we'll see if we can find something out in 2 days with the livestream, otherwise we will have to wait a little more than a week.
I honestly don't know how much I'll be able to do for a detailed analysis in less that 5 days... Well, 4 days actually, because it would be pretty pointless to upload the analysis of the livestream once the actual update is out....
your theory about fire isn't stupid! one of the two human creation myths i can recall off the top of my head is that of prometheus gifting fire to humanity (which reminds me of guoba/marchosius, now that i think about it LOL). venti also references three different real life creation myths of gods turning their bodies into the earth & seas in the official manhua and calls them "the primeval ones" (which i believe might be an early translation of the term "primordial one"?) sorry for the infodump this information's been driving me crazy for like a year HAHA
By manhua, you mean the manga? Sorry for the ignorance, it's a word I've read before but I never actually checked what it means XD
But yeah, actually, more than Prometheus (although it would be nice since there's Pandora's box in his myth), I was thinking about Hephaestus and his forge, although it doesn't really have anything to do with the creation of humans, at least as far as I remember.
I just can't wait to see what Furina or Neuvillette are going to tell us about Natlan and Murata to be honest!
Like another viewer said, there's going to be some Primordial Fire or Flame in Natlan, which gave me the idea of it being the reason for the natural hotsprings healing properties that can't be replicated outside Natlan!
@@ShadowXImpact yup! manhua = manga in chinese (its just the word i'm more used to typing LOL)
primordial fire would be super interesting i wonder if that would tie into bennett's backstory being found in the mare jivari somehow... natlan's such a distant nation i'm so curious as to what's going on there :O
@@charlieh4607 I need to read the manga again. I do have some memories of some god names Venti told Vanessa, and I remembered about it just because you sparked that memory. I don't really remember exactly what he said, so yeah, it's time to read it one more time!
Back with another banger I see relating genshin to honkai and connecting the elements is so genius and hoyo has always had a recurring theme in there games and I think your real good at accurately assessing and speculating what might be happening with Celestia I'm betting one of your theories will be proven right very soon
I sure hope I did, at least, get one thing right of all the things I've said so far!!! XD
This was a really cool & fun theory 💜
Just wanna add, for Ei's/electro's possible connection to void [if we're connecting it to like...space?] is her ability to create spaces like where she was meditating.
But then that makes me wonder if geo is supposed to be void since Zhongli also taught the arts of making subspaces [like the teapot]. So maybe then dendro is earth instead and electro is ether?
Hmm, it would be very strange if dendro was Earth, Electro ether and, I guess, Geo void.
We would lose the imaginary tree connection and the sea of quanta connection.
Also, Yae Miko taught Ei how to create that world, which is, more or less, the same as the serenitea pot. I don't think that this kind of Art has much to do with the elements, to be honest. Madame Ping doesn't even have a vision, although the Adepti have something like "internal visions"
@harryshade5700 what what? When Makoto died, she left a piece of her consciousness, also thanks to Istaroth, in the Musou no Hitotachi in order to help Ei in the future when the conditions were right. On the other hand, Yae Miko said that she was the one who taught Ei to place her consciousness in an object. If Ei knew how to create subspaces, she wouldn't have needed Yae to teach her, right? At least, this is my reasoning.
Still, even if she knew how to create subspaces on her own, the result doesn't change. It's an art that multiple entities can learn to use, not something related to the elements
@ShadowX5452Gaming very true, just wanted to note it it was itching my brain lol
I really love your theories ♡
Even when they turn out to not be true you can always find the logic behind them without stretching too much the confirmed facts of the game 😊
Thank you so much!!!
I always make sure that my theories, at the very least, make sense. Then, it's all in the official writers hands and brains, and how they decided for the story to go!
Other examples of void might be those portals we occasionally find in the overworld. Like the one in mondstat that takes us to the spiral abyss island, among others throughout teyvat.
Yeah, those are really weird and I honestly have no idea how to even define them! They could be void, since they connect two points in space...
@@ShadowXImpact So, I double checked in game just to see if there was anything similar between them. You know, find a connecting thread. All three of them lead to something abyss related. The mondstat portal takes you to spiral abyss. The inazuma portal goes to the mechanical array. But then there's the Jadeplume in Sumeru, a fungal entity. At first being the odd one out, that is until you look in the back of the cave and find a Ruin Grader.
Just my head canon but I guess the portals are simply abyss portals, leading to places the abyss has been investigating. Certain ruin enemies are based on the other enemies in game, such as vishaps for the ruin drake. And the Jadeplume's adventure book description says it could one day evolve into something even greater. It's likely the abyss is observing it's changes. Or even worse, could be feeding it abyssal energy, to forcibly evolve it into a weapon.
@@5h0ckblock well, it could very well be. I certainly wouldn't exclude it
So I looked at the prior Tarot card video and in that one you said you found a great fit by taking the index through the alphabet of the corresponding Hypostasis's Hebrew letter of the alphabet. IE for Cryo it's Hypostasis is "Daleth" the 4th letter so it corresponds to Major Arcana card number 3 (subtracting one because The Fool is major arcana card number zero). That card is the Empress I think.... at any rate it's not the Hierophant. So why the change?
Because you must know the main criticism of this sort of random matching theory is that you can post-hoc match anything to anything else. And you did say that subtracting one (for The Fool card) got you a good match but now you're apparently adding one on? that would get you a different set of Major Arcana to match the Archons and am I supposed to believe that this random matchup is even better? Makes me wonder if we did +5 maybe we'd be even better again, or if we counted backwards from the end of the set?
You're just Cold Reading yourself, aren't you? And this is what always happens when you try to look for clues in real world lore instead of the game lore. When has it ever worked?
Very nice theory !! The nail using the power of the original elements of the world makes kinda sense tbh tho this would took away a bit of the divinity surounding Celestia. Hoyo made sur to distinguish Everything that came from the divine throne of heaven. Architecturally its either grey/white/ivory with golden touches and for power itself the color is always golden or Cyan (nail, Deshret tech, Enko unified civilisation, Pneuma, golden ichor etc...) but hey lets see what hoyo is really cooking !
Also what are your thought about King Remus being the First ever god or Entity sent by Celestia ? And Remuria being the Unified Civilisation (Golden troupes, Lochknights, barbarian) but its Capitole being sets in Fontaine ?
Remus is stated to be the King of Gods with "Unsurpassed authority" the "Universal Harmost" and "King of All under Heaven" after all
I cant wait to see your analysis video of the livestream, as the final chapter of Fontaine its sure is going to be epic !
I mean, it's just a theory that made sense to me. Obviously, things can be completely different, so yeah, let's see what hoyo has in store. We're past halfway now, so they're going to share more about the beginning of Teyvat as we go forward. The answer may be closer than we think!
As for Remus, I don't think he was sent by Celestia. In the Wings, it is implied that he was originally from Fontaine, so I don't think he has anything to do with Celestia.
Same for the Unified Nation. If he was from it, the heavenly principles would have killed him. That ancient, Genesis history is supposed to be completely forgotten. Orobashi was killed for reading Before Sun and Moon and the people of Enkanomiya were helped by Istaroth, who split their memories so that their knowledge of the genesis of Teyvat would have been left in Enkanomiya (becoming the sinshades) and sealed in order for them to be allowed to come to the surface.
Also, the lochknights are, at the end of the day, still Oceanids, so they're Egeria's descendants, probably the warrior Oceanids.
So, yeah, Remus was called a lot of things, but he was also called basically a fool for his convictions about who he was, so.... XD
I think that it could be possibly true about Remus
If we take the 'Broken Goblet of the Pristine Sea''s description:
"Legend says that when the first usurper came to the primordial sea, the first sovereign gave him a goblet of water.
Later, he became the unquestioned god-king, and used this goblet of water to refine the mysterious drops of dew, establishing a splendid and powerful empire."
And we know that 'refined drops of dew' are in reference to the golden ichor Remus created.
The 'first usurper' has been assumed to mean the Primodial One but...who knows maybe they're not the same
@@ehlannahfhey2347 I think that the usurper Apep talks about, is not the same usurper from Fontaine.
Apep's is the Primordial One, for obvious reasons, while the one for Fontaine is Remus, the one that the goblet talks about.
I don't know who assumed that the usurper from the goblet may have been the Primordial One, but if you watch my videos about Fontaine, I sure didn't.
I understand that using the same word make things odd, but I think they made it very clear that only the dragons call the Primordial One a "usurper", because he usurped their powers, while Fontaine's freedom was usurped by Remus, hence he's also a usurper
Shadow, I'll leave here a theory/thought my friend came up and I agreed upon and collaborated:
Isn't Dottore an Oceanid?
Simple things first: he has blue hair. Wow, shocker. But every Water Eidolon/Oceanid has blue hair when in human form, although they couldn't hold this form for much time.
This brings the experiments: Dottore's and... René's? I forgot the name, but it is the patootie of that world quest. One could argue that changing the natural physical nature of a body as "heretic" (it is water blob spirit thing -> human). If Dottore succeeded in this, he could be always human with no downsided.
Next: he can split himself. Another Oceanid trait. And not only that, he says to Nahida something like "It will take me a great amount of resources to create another segment.". This also is in line with the fact that Oceanids can merge freely, but cannot split as easily.
The only real drawback this theory has is the fact that Dottore is presumaly (is this the word? presumidamente, in portuguese haha)/thought to be Sumerian.
PS: Long ago when you made the video about visions and the "parameter" to a person to receive one, I said something about these line about Hydro: "It is always a character that shows up as an antagonist, but really isn't. Examples: Mona being shut about the fake stars, Ayato in the Five Clans event being the "one in the shadows pulling strings in an omnous way", Barbara blocking the Lyre. Sigewinne got the same "she's an awful traitor" vibe, but turned not to be, as always. Nilou was (unknowingly) responsible for the Samsara. And now we have Furina: everyone will.. Unlive and it is "her fault". Just sharing because maybe it can light a bulb in your head.
PPS: I'll send this theory to Ashikai too, 'cuz I like you both. Amazing content creators.
Well, for Dottore, I don't think he could be an Oceanid. Zandik (his real name) was actually a student of the akademiya who was expelled because of his unethical research, but also, although his mask changed, his eyes are red, as shown in the Manga. Also, Ayato has blue hair as well, so it can be considered a normal hair color in general.
As for his segments, if I remember correctly, those are based on a Khaenri'ahn lost technology, something like the puppets Ei created.
Still, a nice theory, but sadly I don't think it's right
For Hydro, on the other hand, it does sound like they're always kinda the bad guys or that it's their fault, although Barbara was kinda right when she took away the Lyre from us. I mean, she didn't know that Venti was Barbatos and she was simply protecting a national treasure, everyone would have done the same. It also happened after we didn't need the lyre anymore, so it's not like it was a problem at that point.
But, all the Hydro characters do act a little weird, like Xingqiu always "scheming" something, Yelan is inherently sus, tartaglia is indeed a Harbinger, but the same can't be really said about Kokomi or Candace, since they're openly just protecting their people without any scheming involved.
It would sound more like they're all about bringing justice, no matter the means involved, since Justice does sound like the inherent ideal of the power of Water and, as a consequence, of Hydro, which is something I stayed away from in the vision video, since I don't think that the ideal of the Archons are involved in the vision granting, but I this case, more than the Archon's ideal, it's the ideal of the actual element. Of course, hydro characters share other features other than just simple justice, otherwise Jean or Cyno would have been hydro as well, for example.
@ShadowX5452Gaming Aw, I thought there wasn't hard proof of Dottore being Sumerian, just that he went to Sumeru long time ago =[
About Hydro, being antagonistic doesn't mean being wrong haha. For Kokomi, she was a fully fledged rebel that incited the civil war and "even worked with fatui" (I know this is a stretch, but one could argue that). And I don't remember quite right, but she was kinda sketchy about Enkanomiya. Candace who? [I'm kidding, but not quite. She and Kokomi were big letdowns =(] But in all seriousness, Candace kinda stopped everyone in their tracks just because she wanted, because she could have shooned everybody away to fight in another place.
That being said, I really don't think Hydro (or at least Furina) is paired with Justice. Maybe Responsability/Burden or something weird like Façade/Masquerade, because most Archons so far has some other title associated, like Nahida Wisdom and Dreams. Maybe Egeria was the God of Justice and since Furina inherited the archonhood (is this the word?), by default she is thought to be the God of Justice, but she could be a god of another thing, like Decarabian was the God of Storm, but Venti is the God of Freedom. [Assuming Furina is in fact the Archon né hahahha]
Im pretty sure the primordial one is still in celestia or at the very least still has the right to shape the world apep says the the dragon king left teyvat to find a higher power to defeat the primodial one using the abyss or forbidden knowledge but when he came back the war was already over we know the abyss can change the physical appearance by who uses it or is currupted by it in one of the artifacts (cant remember the name) the goddess of flowers talks about the primordial one still in rule but is scared for there creations and used celestial nails to mend the land implying that the primordial one is still in charge so who is the second who came well its very likely the dragon king if he used the abyss to fight the first userper then likely he had a drastic change in appearance to make him look extremely different he also could be the abyysal crystal in the caribert quest because he says hes no god yet feels very god like and honestly really powerful
with the elements i like the idea of the primodial one using the dragons power to create the seven element system but i still doupt they used the gnosis to create the human realm it was said with the help of another shade (likely the shade of life) that they created life in teyvat but most likely used the gnosis to astablish the seven elements because it was said apep still ruled sumeru until a celestial nail turned all of it to desert (i say all of it because it was said ruhkakadevata created the rail forest when she left king deshret but you mostl likely know that already) as for nibelung and being cryo i find highly unlikely because there are seven dragons soverigns and it was never mentioned that he was one of the seven soveigns if the archon are simular to the dragons the the dragon king would have higher athority over the seven dragons like celestia and the archons also i think the people of enkomiya wern't saved due tothe fact the primordial one was scared or because of a change of heart thats probably why isteroth left because she did approve of the primordial ones actions in fact im enclined to beilive because of isteroths rebellion aganst them they decided to create the archon war to put the gods in check thats why in the genshin manga venti says celestia does'nt value them its because the just chess peices to there game and to keep watch over them venti was probably created to help lost and abandoned people to safety from evil egnerent and selfish gods hes pretty much jesus in genshin his nation even has the cross andnot to mentions the anemo gnosis is queen which is said to be more powerful the king and you know what there are people from other nations who pry to the anemo archon rather then there respective god
Well, it's obvious we have different interpretations about the Primordial One, so I guess there's no point in explaining things, also because I explained in detail why I think he's not ruling anymore.
Apep never said that the dragon king went away and came back to find the world different. She said that the dragon king acquired powers from outside Teyvat, Forbidden Knowledge (which she specifies), they fought against the heavenly principles, he died and came back to life around the time she made the agreement with Deshret, since she talks about him first and then the dragon kind coming back to life.
Nabu Malikata never said the Primordial One is still ruling, she just told Deshret never to try and find out anything about the shades and the Primordial One.
The fact that the nails were sent down, doesn't necessarily mean that it was the Primordial One who sent them. Apep said that the heavenly principles reshaped the world, so it's more understandable if they sent them. How could they reshape the world if it was on the verge of destruction?
The second who came is definitely not the dragon king since he is one of the seven dragon sovereign and they were fought by the Primordial One before Teyvat was even created.
Even if the abyss can change people's appearance, the dragon king, again like Apep clearly stated, looked for forbidden knowledge.
And, again too, the dragon king came back to life, so he can't be the sinner.
Although I never specifically said that the shades used the gnoses, the fact that there are seven nations imbued with elemental powers just like there were seven elemental nations on the old world, makes me think that the authorities, the powers of the dragons, were actually used to create everything, not just the humans, in Teyvat.
Apep did rule the rainforest of Sumeru, that was later turned into a desert, and then Rukkhadevata turned half of it back to a rainforest.
How can the dragon king, the king of the dragon sovereigns, not be a dragon sovereign?
You already know I disagree with the rest of your post since it was something I talked about in a previous video and also what I talked about in this one you're commenting.
I believe the Primordial One is not ruling over Teyvat, also because it makes no sense for him to punish whoever finds about him, so I think Istaroth helped the people of Enkanomiya and left them there to protect them just like the Primordial One wanted, and when the seal broke, she split their memories, so that everything they knew about the genesis of Teyvat, so everything that people are now not supposed to know were left sealed in Enkanomiya as sinshades, allowing the people to go to the surface. And this is not a theory, it's the description of the sinshades in the loading screen, and they are clearly stated to have been created by Istaroth.
As for venti saying that Celestia doesn't value the Gods, it's exactly what I said in my last video: the Gods were all imperfect and, once they created the 7 perfect ones, they enacted the Archon wars to weed out the useless gods.
@@ShadowXImpact I still don’t believe in the second who came is still ruling mostly because we haven’t had much to prove they are plus it was implied somewhere the primordial one won the second war plus the primordial one took away the dragons power and land to crest there own actively invading there land they were born in so it’s not a surprise that the primordial one would abandon enkonomiya I mean they rule all of teyvat there nothing more then a small fraction of the world they rule over people have theorized for the longest time that the second who came is ruling but to me I believe there is no primordial god ruling celestia I mean think about it celestia has been silent every since the cataclysm meaning they used to communicate to the archons before them they Likely even met them in person though I doupt that anyway what if the primordial has left for something outside of teyvat since the khaenriah disaster leaving only the shades left and they’ve been trying to keep order to celestia and to suspect the primordial is still ruling they fell silent also just because the nibeulung is the dragon kind doesn’t he’s one of the sovereigns it’s like Peirro he’s a fatui but not a fatui harbingers he’s tge director of them it’s the same with the dragon king he’s a dragon but isn’t one of the seven sovereigns because he’s stronger and there leader it was never stated that the dragon kings power was stolen only the sovereigns
@@isaiahhaley4816 well, to me it feels like you simply don't want to believe Apep's words. She makes a clear difference between the usurper and the outsiders who came after, the ones we also call heavenly principles, the once she said won the war and reshaped Teyvat as they saw fit.
I mean, if you don't even believe the game, the one character who actively witnessed all of that, there isn't really anything that I can say.
The fact that Celestia had been silent, also, doesn't mean much, really. It's not like the heavenly principles have to act, they didn't even do anything when Deshret brought Forbidden Knowledge in Teyvat, so there most likely be a specific condition under which the Heavenly Principles do take action, like the nails when Teyvat was about to be destroyed, and the cataclysm, when Teyvat was, again, about to be destroyed. So, I'd say that, unless Teyvat is in extremely grave danger, they'll just leave the Gods deal with it, otherwise why are they even there?
Same goes for Nibelungen, who is the king of the dragon sovereigns, but for whatever reason, you think he's not a dragon sovereign, which makes no sense whatsoever to me, but it's your theory, so I'll leave it.
And the same goes for Pierro, too. You say he's not a Fatui despite the fact that he created the Fatui and that his constellation, the weeping mask (which is Pierrot) is one of the 11 constellations on the Fatui Harbinger Dial...
@@ShadowXImpact peirro is the director not a harbenger there’s one missing harbenger who is theorized to be dilucs father anyway I never said he wasn’t one of the fatui I said he is in the fatui but isn’t one of the harbengers nibeulung could be a sovereign but not like the other is was said there were seven which coroline with the archons if he was one of them then the math of thing would be off celestia is the king of gods basically while nibeulung in the king of dragons if he is one of the seven dragon sovereigns then that would mean there is no king gnosis and assuming there is which likely because they could’ve stole the dragon kings power maybe Paimon says there are seven archons and seven matching dragon sovereigns meaning the sovereigns match the authority of the archon since there are seven gnosis and there are 8 peices of chess then be ruling must have had a different element that surpassed the seven sovereigns and since he’s referred to the dragon KING and the gnosis represent chess peices then that means he’s separate from the sovereigns I mean if the archons coroline with the sovereigns then nibeulung coroline with celestia I mean celestia doesn’t refer to themselves as archons just primordial gods so nebeulung must be a primordial dragon that’s what I’m trying to say he’s a special more powerful type of sovereign as for apep Ngl I kinda missed some thing in what she said so that’s my bad but I doupt nebeulung was the ice dragon
@@isaiahhaley4816 it still doesn't make sense how Pierro, the creator of the Fatui and the one that commands the harbinger, isn't one of the Harbingers, especially since his constellation is among the seven constellations of the Fatui Harbingers....
And the same goes with Nibelung. It just doesn't make sense to me that the DRAGON king is not an elemental dragon sovereign. Like, why would any of the dragon sovereigns follow his if he was not even a dragon sovereign like them?
Also, I think that people want things to be always so predictable and identical, that's why you're expecting things to correlate exactly with others, like there are 7 Archons and Celestia, so there are 7 dragons and a king. Like why?
Also, Celestia is not a God, and we saw how there are three beings there, so what now, are there three Nibelung?
So, you know, sometimes the best explanation is actually the easiest...
But still, this is your theory, if it's right or wrong, you'll find out soon, as the story progresses. Personally, I disagree, but that's not important
3:01 Luxo, Tenebro, Cosmo, and Many others were included too.
What do you mean? Is it something from Honkai Impact? I don't remember those words in Genshin Impact
@@ShadowXImpact Imaginary means Luxo = Light. Cosmo = Void which is Quanta. Tenebro = Dark because of its nature. This is a Latin word we are talking about.
@@Sanzumori78 no, I understand the Latin, I studied it. What I was asking was where they were included, since you said that, just in case I missed something in the game
@@ShadowXImpact They are the missing elements. Those of which are combined.
New video and I'm hyped! I can't wait for your 4.2 trailer analysis as well!
I hope it's not too much of a rush since the time between stream and release is way shorter this time but I will always be here to watch no matter that time it comes out :)
I always liked your intuitive theories and deep dive into rabbitholes, more than other loretubers :)
Yeah, it's going to be crazy this time... I wasn't expecting this much of a delay. To be honest, I didn't even check when the patch was supposed to be released and I just read November 8th?
How am I going to make a video in less than 5 days????
I think you're going to have a hard time fleshing out a theory based on seven new elements. Even one or two added is enough to mess up most people.
The elements listed in the ancient records of Enkanomiya presumably simply refer to an ancient classification system which is no longer interesting except for historic purposes. Unlike the alchemy device which lists 3/4 of the same elements, there's no reason to think the list in Enkanomiya isn't complete. There's no reason to think they had seven elements in their classification system since this is before the Archons and the seven nations existed. There was just one nation and no Visions or Gnoses or dragons. Therefore, the game suggests, it was possible for the people of the Ancient Civilization to have an alternate classification system based on ancient Greek (Terran) philosophy about the four elements. Well you might say, isn't the seven-fold nature of the elements of Teyvat pretty obvious even without nations, Visions, Gnoses or dragons? I mean they had hypostases. I agree but this is how they are telling the story. We have to suspend disbelief a little and say yeah maybe those ancient people, influenced by Terran thinking, saw it differently? And we don't really know enough about how things were back then to comment except about those Hypostases which we know were around and well known to the Ancient Civilization.
There's no 7th element in the Enkanomiyan system, and no 8th in the present day Teyvat system. What you see is what you get.
Also of course Teyvat is made of the same stuff as the Light realm. I mean otherwise you'd have to assume the PO brought half of a planet's worth of dirt on board the Ark to act as building materials. The point about Egeria is more about her biology, her DNA. Like a Platypus it feels like she was sewn together from spare parts because she doesn't easily fit into the Light realm or the newly created Human realm. Or since Egeria is so old maybe she's more like a Fungus that doesn't feel like a plant or an animal.
Plus the book BS&M doesn't say PO created everything new in Teyvat and it excludes the atmosphere, oceans, seas and dry land. So the basic materials are the same.
Nor is there any evidence of consistent use of these terms. For example why is the Hydro dragon referred to as the Sovereign of Water? Is it water or is it Hydro? Neuvillette himself uses the word "Water". But isn't that an Enkanomiyan word and classification? dating back to the Ancient Civilization? If that's a human / Primordia One word why on EARTH would a dragon use that word to refer to itself? He'd say he was the Hydro Sovereign surely? Conclusion: there's no separate meaning between water and hydro when it comes to naming elements. Neuvillette is simply using an archaic human word.
So you have to strain pretty hard to make six elements match with seven and you end up saying that Electro = Abyss, presumably just because in-game they have the same purple-ish colour? And you have to say the ancients thought "Ice" was an element when of course they all knew that ice was simply frozen water. Wouldn't it make more sense to say that the ancients just lumped modern day Hydro and Cryo together as the water element? Like you later claim they lumped together sand and Geo as "earth"?
Well I don't believe any real world law like Tarot cards ever end up being useful in Genshin lore. They lack any predictive power even in the rare cases where (post-facto) you can recognize common threads such as the Bible's lore on angels, and some words from Gnosticism. But perhaps you can think of any examples where real-world lore (Ars Goetia, the Comedia, Chess theory, Tarot, Greek or other ancient mythologies about gods, the plot of Alice in Wonderland, or anime and manga tropes) - have predicted things correctly in a lore theory?
I mean I borrowed an idea about time from various cultural sources but perhaps most specifically "A Tale of Time City" by Dianna Wynne Jones, which worked great to predict the Sumeru time shenanigans but of course you reject that in favour of the "only memories" theory. Anyway I doubt the Devs ever read that book and it's most likely based on the time traveling anime "Steins; Gate". So-- no predictive value (except if you think I got the Irminsul samsara's right). At best you can recognize patterns after the fact and say (unfalsifiably) ah yes they must have got this idea from this real world lore source. But at that point no prediction can be made. To their credit Chess theory did predict things about what piece the Electro gnosis would be-- and that predictions failed.
We're three years in now.
Give it up.
Real world lore never predicts game lore. Mihoyo only use that stuff as a random name generator. Anything beyond that is a red herring. If they ever did import plot elements wholesale from real world lore it would be called plagiarism not good writing. The gods aren't Solomon's demons and the Harbingers aren't Comedia characters. Nobody is a character from HI3 either and there's no Honkai coming. Genshin is it's own story, not a rehash of other stories. Obviously some elements are borrowed but not in large enough chunks to have predictive power.
But we've gone over this stuff before.
Well, I mean, it's not like I wasn't expecting your usual "everything you said or think doesn't make sense because nothing anyone think makes sense".
Still, and I'll keep it very short, the elements listed in Enkanomiya are the elements that the people of the unified nation knew, and they are the people who knew about the Old world and the seven elemental nations ruled by the Elemental dragons. So, although you think that their list is complete, you also need to remember that the one who wrote that list was Orobashi, not the people of Enkanomiya, and he knew the seven elements of Teyvat for obvious reasons... So the absence of the 7th element has to mean something, for many people, not you of course.
As for the water dragon and the fact that Neuvillette uses that term, just remember that he received the memories (although incomplete) of the previous dragon, so that could be the reason why he doesn't say hydro but water.
I never said that electro is the abyss just because it's purple, I explained it a little deeper. I'm not that simplistic when I try to explain something.
The ancients may have lumped together cryo and hydro together without realizing they were two different elements, and that would actually help my theory that the 7th element is, indeed, ice, only the ancients didn't see it as an element of its own.
Sand and earth being the same thing, is no lumping together. Sand is an earth material like dirt or rocks.
You say nothing from real word was ever used to predict anything in the game, except I used the tarots to predict the Dendro Hypostasis's name 4 months before its release;
there's the kusanali Jakata that predicted the continuation of a Rukkhadevata, the spirit living in the tree, in the new tree that grew from the branches of the original one, so... Do I have to even say something about it?
But, the question is: if nothing from the real world has any meaning in the game except for random names in your opinion, why do you watch theory videos, since the theorists mainly use elements from the real world to explain the game?
By the way, don't say "give it up", because I'm not.
But yeah, we've gone over this stuff before and we disagree
OK I'm still confused and it's annoying because I can't really criticize a theory I don't understand properly.
So you have two sets of elements - that bit is right. The Enkanomiyan element set is the one in the Bayakuyakoku collection which you say is from Orobashi although it seems an older reference, per the crafting table using those same element names, pointing to the Ancient Civilization, which you agree with so that's all fine. The other set being let's call it the "Teyvat" set. The normal set.
I don't think the Ancient Civilization was old enough to remember the dragons and humans hadn't been created at the time so do you mean by, "they are the people who knew about the Old world and the seven elemental nations ruled by the Elemental dragons" that (1) the Old World refers to the pre-PO Teyvat ruled by dragons and is that the way Pierro uses that same term or not in your view? Are you suggesting a link between Fatui and dragons? (2) the yeah this is confusing -- the Enkanomiya set is the terminology used by the Ancient Civilization in reference to the natural elements of Teyvat as represented by the dragon and their nations prior to the PO? But then doesn't the Enkanomiyan set have to be a simple rewording of the Teyvat set? One to one correspondence? All you're saying is they used a slightly different set of words for identical elements and concepts?
So then are you saying the 2nd Throne / HP / Celestia faction turns up and just uses different words? But I though you were saying the actual physical material Teyvat is made of had to change? Or do you mean the words changed AND the physical material changed but the new physics of Teyvat just happened to depend on seven elements the same, with the same set of reactions between them? Are you saying Hydro and Water are the same thing, or two different elements?
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As for the Dendro Hypostasis isn't it's name just the seventh letter of the Hebrew alphabet as it was the seventh Hypostasis they revealed? If you really based it on picking out a Major Arcana (using the old -1 calculation not the new +1 calculation) and you picked "The Lovers" as the best fit for Dendro Archon then I guess you got lucky because the stuff you said about The Lovers to make it a good fit was based on speculation about Sumeru that was inaccurate - stuff about it having two trees and maybe you have to pick which tree to burn? None of that happened making predictions based on it void surely? Well I just watched that whole video so I think I got that right.
"there's the kusanali Jakata that predicted the continuation of a Rukkhadevata, the spirit living in the tree, in the new tree that grew from the branches of the original one"
I haven't watched the video this prediction is in but if we already knew the names of the two Dendro Archons it's pretty obvious that the old one dies and is replaced by the new one. That's true of all the female Archons. Do you think the prediction added anything beyond what was known? Because the prediction is only correct in a vague metaphoric way. Kusanali does NOT continue Rukkhadevata's life, she is an entirely separate creature and the tree (Irmisul) is not replaced or regrown but only the avatar. Plus all the timey wimey stuff makes even the most vague prediction false, since Rukkhadevata now never existed to begin with.
At any rate I'm not limiting this to your own predictions. I mean ANYONE's predictions-- that rely on real world lore.
"why do you watch theory videos"
There's plenty of bits of lore theory that doesn't use it. I think a lot of people just put it in that stuff once they already have a theory because of other considerations. And back in the day 3 years ago nobody knew any better. Could have worked. But it didn't. Now we know better.
@@ShadowXImpact
@@DavidJohnson-ib1dh yes, two sets of elements: one from the Light Realm that the people of the Unified Nation knew of, and one from Teyvat. Orobashi did write those records but his knowledge was expanded by what he learned in Enkanomiya, reason why he uses those names.
The people have been created at the end of the creation but did you ever ask yourself what did the ark have inside? if it's an Ark, as Before Sun and Moon calls it, and it's named when the people were created, then I deduce that the ark brought the "memories" (which in Genshin Impact is the closest thing to a soul) of the people that were then placed inside the bodies that were created. In that case, it would explain why the people of Enkanomiya knew of the dragons, since they spoke of them and they actually exist, meaning it's not some legend they came up with, but the actual history that happened before the humans were created. This would also explain why they were able to make a comparison between the fight between the PO and the Second, and the fight between the PO and the Dragons that happened before they were created. meaning, the souls existed and experienced it, only without a physical body. at least, that's my theory.
I never associated the dragons with the Fatui, I don't know where you took that from. I don't think I've even talked about these two in the same video, to be honest. Pierro does know about the Old World, but you should also remember that the upside down city in the Chasm (Enkanomiya architecture, so a piece of the unified nation) looks very similar to Khaenir'ah, as Dainsleif openly stated, so if we found books in Enkanomiya that talked about the Old World, similar books could have been in Khaenri'ah, reason why the Khaenri'ahns knew that in Enkamoniya there was a book that they needed to steal and they knew, more or less, what was written on it before they even got it (which they didn't in the end, since the thieves were stopped before they could leave with the book). the question, basically, is: how does Enjou know what's written in the book if the Khaenri'ahns never managed to steal it? consequence: Khaenri'ah has something similar, maybe a book that's missing some parts, so they wanted the one in Enkanomiya, since it's not damaged and they could read the full story.
What I'm saying about the elements is that, because the unified nation was created at the beginning of Teyvat (more or less), they had knowledge of those elements from the Light Realm, and they knew that the PO used those elements to create Teyvat. Since they already knew those elements, why call them differently? the elements of Teyvat are similar, are mirrored elements according to me, so whether you call them Earth or Geo, is more or less the same. it's the same kind of power, but with different sources. After the Second took charge, then they changed the names of the elements, probably to completely hide everything that had to do with the original Teyvat and the Old World, and start anew. No one other than the Archons, the Dragons, the people of Enkanomiya and Pierro uses those names for the elements, so they're connected to a specific set of knowledge that the Heavenly Principles want to hide from the people, just like the genesis of Teyvat in general.
In short, Hydro is Water but that follows the rules of Teyvat. Hydro is the Teyvat version of Water. Teyvat has its own set of rules, and everything that comes from outside, doesn't work in Teyvat (or damages it), like Albedo's flower, for example. the elements ar the same but, at the same time, different. I honestly don't know how to explain what I'm thinking better than "mirrored elements".
as for Dendro, yes it was the 7th letter, but I'm not allowing you to just say "you got lucky" just to downplay my research and make it stupid. first of all, the hypostases are 1 Aleph electro, 2 Beht anemo, 3 Gimel geo, 4 Daleth cryo, 5 He hydro, there's no 6, 7 He dendro and then 16 ayin pyro, so it's not like I just did plus one and I got the right one by chance. Second, the Lovers talk about the two trees, one of knowledge and one of life, and the card says that you need to pick one, just like Nahida had to pick between ensuring life on the world by fixing Irminsul or Rukkhadevata's life. I also said that, originally, there were two women on that card, representing Eve and Lilith, both the first women created by god, and we had Rukkhadevata and Nahida, both the "first" dendro Archon by the end of the archon quest. we also saw two different Irminsul trees, the pink one and the inner blueish one. of course, I can't see the future, I couldn't have gotten everything the writers decided to go there. if I could, I would have been playing the lottery everyday....
for Rukkhadevata, it is obvious that the old one dies and it's replaced by the current one, but was it obvious, without the Kusanali Jakata, how Nahida was going to replace Rukkhadevata? that she was going to be her continuation in the new "samsara", the same being but with a new life? because that's not what happened in Inazuma, they were twin sisters. I do think the prediction added a lot, because, again, unless you can see the future, if it wasn't for the names, no one could have even thought about a "spirit" of the tree dying but continuing as a new life in another tree grown from the branches of the old tree. unless the whole lore of Sumeru means nothing to you, that is. in that case, why are we even discussing?
and yes, the prediction is correct only in part, because the writers OBVIOUSLY created a story specifically for Genshin Impact, using the Jakata Kusanali as an inspiration, not copying it. there's no new tree, yes, but there's the branch of the old tree that allowed the new spirit to be born. Rukkhadevata, by the way, in the clearest possible way, tells nahida that Rukkhadevata is Nahida, that Nahida is Rukkhadevata. she is her in the new samsara = she is her continuation but with a future and fate of its own. it's the same exact being but with a new life, new fate, new desired, new wishes.
to you, basically, no one who uses those real life inspirations that the writers clearly used, are right or can never be right. just so you know, I will keep on using those real life bits because, it is clear to me, they they are way more valuable than you think. I think it's more like you don't want these bits to be useful more than anything. you just can't accept, for whatever reason, that the writers did use those real life bits to make their stories, and when it is too clear that they actually did, like with the Kusanali Jakata, you have to find a way to downplay it, even to the point of trying to ridicule people's efforts and research. That's actually pretty rude, to be honest, but I'm used to it after a year....
We don't know that Nibelung wielded one of the seven elements we know. It's more likely he wielded all or none of them, since he's talked about as if he's significantly separate from the other sovereigns. Nibelung could have been the Number 0 of the Dragon faction, the Way Pierro is number 0 of the Fatui, not counted among the numbered that are beneath him.
The problem is that Pierro being the number 0 is also another theory, not a fact, since there are 11 symbols on the Fatui circle and Pierrot's mask is one of them.
Still, we were told, specifically, that there are seven dragons, so it wouldn't really make sense for an 8th dragon, the dragon number 0, to exist.
Then, considering that the gnoses contain the authorities stolen from the dragons, and there are only 7 gnoses, why would Nibelung have a power that's different from the seven elements?
He is just called "dragon king", he's not exactly talked about as if he's separate from the other dragons. Being the king can also just mean that he leads them, nothing more
@@ShadowXImpact True enough, we just don't know enough to say, I guess.
@@amouramarie and that's exactly why we can theorize. It's the absence of conclusive evidence that allows everybody to come up with their own theories if they wish to XD
I'm sorry to keep going on about this (the confusion over the two element sets) but I feel like I'm picking up on you saying opposite things and I'm confused. I probably could do better if I had a bit more time right now. So once again I'll try to read back at you, what I think you said, which is a way for you to be able to tell me where I am wrong (if anywhere).
Also: no acronyms, sure.
OK so we have 3 broad periods of time: the time before PO came (dragon era), the time from the PO beating up the dragons until the 2nd Throne comes (PO era) and the time after the 2nd Throne (Celestia era). OK and during those periods of time there are always seven elements but in the last two era we have the "microcosm" of Teyvat the bubble world made by PO, and altered by 2nd Throne and inside THAT part of the planet (or whatever it is) ie in "Teyvat" we have one set of elements, which CORRESPOND to the original Light realm / dragon elements, but they're not identical. They are sort of similar, they presumably react similarly with each other, they're probably all "without will" as compared to Abyss/Celestial energy. So you might call them eg "Pyro" and "old Pyro" or "dragon Pyro" or "original Pyro" or "Light realm Pyro", but actually you're saying they have their own set of names and the name corresponding to Pyro is "Fire".
Now I think you're saying that it's the Primordial One who comes up with the new set of elements. Maybe he modifies the original set somehow. It's not clear why he feels he needs a modified set of elements. But he makes the new world of Teyvat, the microcosm, the bubble world - from his new elements, his modified elements. Except for Egeria who for whatever reason is made of the old set of elements. In fact I guess it's the statement about Egeria and how it carefully differentiates in her description between something like old materials (Fire, Earth, Water, Air etc) and new materials that came with the Primordial One (Pyro, Geo, Hydro etc) - that description is taken as as evidence for the theory of these two sets of elements.
OK so the new world (Teyvat, the microcosm, the bubble world) is created from the new Primordial One elements. Later on the 2nd Throne turns up and decides to make some big changes to Teyvat. They don't go as far as the Primordial One though. They don't make their own set of elements. They don't make a whole new microcosm / world. They just keep using the same stuff as the Primordial One using the same materials (Pyro, Cryo, Anemo etc) but they physically bury anything that might remind people about the existence of the Primordial One and the Shades.
Now presumably it's possible there is a little leaking going on both materially - meaning a little bit of "Water" might slip through into Teyvat which consists of "Hydro". Now by "Water" I don't mean the common word water that just means what you drink for example. I mean the old element Water. It is unknown what happens when the two meet up or what relationship there is between the old element Water and the Primordial Sea water, but I'm guessing you might be leaning towards thinking the Primordial Sea water consists of old-element water, not Hydro. I mean it kind of would have to if the Primordial Sea is older than when the Primordial One came. Or are you saying the Primordial Sea and Sand are made by the Primordial One from the new elements? Or that they were made by the Primordial One but from the old elements not his new elements? Like Egeria was. Or are you saying well in one sense everything in Teyvat is created by Primordial One because he created Teyvat, but the Primordial Sea and Sand were made from material leaks from the old world of dragons and so they are made of the magical elements of Earth and Water and so you might say the actual Sea was new, but the material it consisted of was old? Like Egeria. Like these things were made on day one and maybe the Primordial One rolled them out fast before the new elements were really being used yet, so they got in before the Shade was used to building with the new elements or something. They're exceptions. Leaks the Primordial One knew about and didn't worry about fixing.
The other type of leak we might see is linguistic. ie people using the word "water" for the element and not "hydro". It feels like the 2nd throne would not like this. Well I guess they wouldn't like either type of leak. So whenever someone uses the old words "Earth, Fire, Water" for magical elements that might be a little odd and need an explanation.
Well that's all I have time for now.
So, pretty much what I said, except that Egeria is made from materials from Teyvat, not the light realm, as the wings say: (I'll try to quote, but I'm going by memory) without external materials.
Also, the leaks I talk about, well that Apep actually talks about, are the abyss. The fight between the Primordial One and the second who came left the world almost destroyed. The rifts that broke the fabric of the world, most likely deep rifts, that were fixed by the nails.
As for the linguistic aspect, I don't think the heavenly principles care too much, since the dragons freely use the names of the elements from their original world, so I guess it's not that much of a problem.
As for the Primordial Sea, I don't really have a clear idea. It could be that the original Primordial Sea, the one in the Light Realm, is different from the one in the Human Realm, meaning that it may have been recreated in the human realm by the artificial heart that the shade created, Egeria. I say this because it feels like the PO needed a similar but new set of elements in order for them to adhere to the specific rules of Teyvat. We read in before sun and moon that the Primordial One sealed the path to temptation, which I deduced it's the powers of the dragons. Since the dragons do use their powers, which are supposed to be their original powers, albeit not complete, I suppose that the elements from the Light Realm are not dangerous to Teyvat as, for example, forbidden knowledge is, despite both the dragons' powers and forbidden knowledge are powers that come from beyond the microcosm of Teyvat. This is also why I think that the dragons' powers were actually used to create everything inside Teyvat, the abyss included, because it would explain why the dragons can actually use their powers without destroying Teyvat as Forbidden Knowledge almost did multiple times.
I mean, it's a theory that could be right, since it makes sense if you think about it, but there are aspects to it that I can't really prove or disprove since we are still missing key information. Since it's a 50/50, it can be right or it can be wrong.
With the other viewers, other than the Primordial Sand, we found the Primordial Sakura, which is supposed to be electro, so there seems to be a Primordial something for every element, considering that the thousand winds may also be the Primordial Winds at this point.
I guess we'll learn a whole lot more about the Primordial Sea in 4.2, and that will potentially explain this theory as well.
Kind of a big picture theory that it isn't really appropriate to pick at over minor details but rather it would need an overarching assessment of its fit with everything. That's quite tricky.
So... why does the 2nd Throne still kinda like humans at least to the point of apparently sending the gods to help out? Well the gods seem to think they are a positive force. Or are you thinking of going full on Gnosticism and saying the Archons are there to block humans from managing to reach enlightenment in some sense and are bad guys?
Also if Celestia is 2nd Throne why is the Unknown God - or whoever Nahida refers to as the "Heavenly Principles" essentially "asleep" for the last 500 years?
basically what is the relationship between Celestia and humans now? With the Primordial One it was pretty simple as we're told the Primordial One created and loves humans.
But there's no reason an enemy of the Primordial One would like humans and the dragons seem pretty mixed about them.
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The relationship between Fatui and dragons is hinted by two things (1) the use of "Old World" by Pierro as something of a goal for the Fatui. That assumes by "Old world" he means "before the Primordial One". (2) the 3-way political structure of the world according to Enkanomiya suggest 3 antagonist forces against the Traveler. We have the Abyss and Celestia and Fatui. If one of these three has to represent dragons (for the symmetry of the story) it ought to be the Fatui.
And more recently of course you have theories about the source of the gnoses being dragons and the Fatui are collecting those gnoses. So if the only interesting thing to do with a gnosis is send it home then that means dragons and fatui are connected.
Well I suggested this theory i think just after Caribert quest. Well at the time I figured that each of the three forces also had a descender since all were attempting to control the fate of teyvat and that requires a descender.
But now it feels like the descenders may be identified with René's outside forces that are capable of altering the world formula, and so they are (except the last one) historic individuals not active players. And each past descender did indeed alter the world formula accounting for the biggest events in history.
These two options are pretty close as they both assume descender = change fate of teyvat, the difference being whether they are spaced out politically or chronologically, respectively.
@@ShadowXImpact
@@DavidJohnson-ib1dh well, what I think is that there are two possibilities:
1) the Primordial One is a loving god (or Aeon, to be honest, so Sophia) and he was taken away by the Second who came (which would be another Aeon, Theletos), leaving its Heavenly Principles, something like the Second's shades basically, in Teyvat to rule over that creation. In that case, the Heavenly Principles don't really need to love the people or anybody in general, they may just want to rule over the world. I mean, they did destroy entire civilizations with the nails, so it doesn't really feel like an act of love. they could have evacuated the people before sending down the nails, but they didn't;
2) the Primordial One is not really a good being and the Second defeated him because he's evil. If we think about it, if no one goes against the rules of the Heavenly Principles, which don't feel like they're that bad to begin with since people are actually free to live in peace, nothing bad happens. If they do something that puts the world at risk, then they retaliate. We could say that they indeed saved Teyvat from destruction by sending the nail. Yes, civilizations were destroyed, but they also rebelled against the Heavenly Principles and tried to obtain powers that they shouldn't own nor want. They were consumed by greed and they were punished as a consequence, with a death sentence considering that their actions may have also put the world on the brink of destruction.
As for the Gods, not all of them see the Heavenly Principles as good beings. Venti seems to be either scared or disgusted just by thinking about them, Makoto said that they needed to "break free from the clutches of the Heavenly Principles", which makes them sound evil. Ei believed that she had to adhere to the full extent of her powers to the Heavenly Principles in order for things never to change, so that nothing bad would happen again, which feels like a decision made out of fear.
As for Gnosticism, that's what makes me think that the Primordial One may be Sophia, the shades are the Demiurge (only, in this case, it's split in 4), Theletos, Sophia's Syzygy, was sent to the earth to bring Sophia back to the Pleroma (so the Primordial One is not in Teyvat anymore) and he also brought Jesus and the Holy Spirit (which is considered a female entity) to give humans gnosis to be able to go back to the spiritual world upon death, which is similar to the people receiving their visions, becoming allogenes, so being granted the chance to ascend to the heavens.
In this case, Sophia, the Primordial One, is neither good nor evil, and so is Theletos, the Second.
As for Pierro, I think I wrote it to you (the comments are getting mixed up in my brain right now), but I think that Khaenri'ah, most likely build on the ruins of another section of the unified nation (Dainsleif recognizes the upside down city architectural style) may have had incomplete documents that talked about the Old World, the Primordial One, the Unified Nation and so on, reason why they knew that they had to acquire/steal Before Sun and Moon in Enkanomiya, despite that nation having been sealed off from the world for eons and no one even knew that it existed. Enjou knows what's supposed to be written on the book, although they were never able to obtain it. So, Pierro, as one of the court mages, most likely read those documents they had in Khaenri'ah, which explains why he knows about the Old World. It's not clear, though, if the other Fatui or even the Tsaritsa know about it.
Pierro does have a goal that involves the Old World, and what I think it is, it's finally breaking the eggshell, releasing Teyvat on the Old World, which, to me, is the only reason why he would tell Signora that her resting peace would be the entirety of the Old World.
This brings me to my own theory about why they're collecting the gnoses, which I think I talked about in my Snezhnaya video.
I think that the Tsaritsa lost someone dear to her, which made her this cold as a defensive mechanism not to be hurt again. Like "If I don't care about anybody, I will never suffer for anybody's loss ever again" kind of thing. Now, I still think she lost a daughter because Ei lost a twin sister, but she didn't go psycho against the Heavenly Principles, so the only other family member that can be dearer than a twin sister, is a son or daughter.
By gathering the seven gnoses, Pierro may have promised to use them to summon the Shades, specifically Istaroth, since she has the power to go back in time and create a whole different timeline. I do think that Barbatos and Istaroth share the same body, by the way, so when Venti inexplicably goes to sleep for centuries on end, Istaroth is awake, meaning that Pierro will fake a Cataclysm 2.0 to summon Istaroth in Snezhnaya and use the powers of the Gnoses to steal her time powers.
Now, Pierro promised the Tsaritsa to go back in time to before the Cataclysm started and prevent her dear one's death from ever happening, but he's going to reveal his true goals and betray the Tsatitsa: he wants to go back to Khaenri'ah before the Cataclysm (hence, the last chapter in the Travail video is hidden, because it's something that happens chronologically before the prologue in Mondstadt) to make it worse and actually destroy the fabric of reality, the eggshell that contains Teyvat, releasing the world on the Old World. He does have 500 years worth of research, especially the one in the Abyss where he sent Scaramouche, to now know exactly how to break everything before the Heavenly Principles could act and stop him.
Of course, this is a theory I have, based on very little proof. more than a theory, it's a hunch that very well be wrong, but it's still possible. So far, we didn't get anything that would make it definitely wrong as well as definitely right, so I'll stick to it.
As for the Descenders, they do sound like they all brought a change in Fate in Teyvat, since they are the only ones who can actually do that, considering they don't exist from Irminsul point of view, so they're unpredictable.
The Heavenly Principles changed Teyvat;
I still think the two from the Battlepass are the second Descenders, who caused the Seelie's fall. They are shown in front of a verdant Vindagnyr, so they came down to Teyvat probably around the time the Nails descended. And, it may sound stupid, but I think the male heir is Imunlaukr;
The third ones are pretty much unknown, but considering the chronology, if we have a descender every time an era ends, then they would have come around the time the Archon War began. So you would have a Descender between the Primordial One era and the new Teyvat, a Descender between the new Teyvat and the age of the Gods (what comes after the nails descended), one between the age of the Gods and the age of the Archons, and one between the Age of the Archons and whatever comes next, which will be decided by our traveler's influence on Teyvat.
Also, the external factor René talked about (although he had no idea he even actually existed), I think it's the Traveler, since he, for obvious reasons, will prevent the Apocalypse from happening.
It seems pretty obvious that René's external factor will be the Traveler, given the whole set up of the narrative and the prophecy about the Traveler taking over the job of the Keep who is fading. And since the Traveler is said to be the last Descender that this implies all Descender can change the fate of Teyvat, which was pretty obvious already since they have some measure of immunity to the effects of Irminsul. They are external to Irminsul and can therefore have power over it, whereas it has no power over the Descender.
Of course this also means it's pretty obvious that Irminsul samsaras do in fact change all of reality (past, present and future) instead of changing "only memories" which was always a dumb idea. LOL, otherwise you'd have to say the end of the game is Traveler rescuing the world only in terms of memories changed to pretend they did and not in reality. Well if everyone's dead then there's not so many memories to change. The whole idea of "only memories" was absurd from the beginning since we see the fate of Teyvat changed (not memories) in Inazuma too.
If we do identify Descenders with large scale overhauls of the fate of Teyvat and the main 3 events are (1) Primordial One creating Teyvat (2) 2nd Throne messing it up (4) Traveler saving the world then yes the 3rd Descender and 3rd event must lie in between the end of the 2nd Throne's war and the present day.
Now you're creating an event when the Nails fall which you also identify as the time the Seelie's get nerfed and perhaps the gods first appear. You also suggest a point when the Archon war starts, and possibly when it ends. But to my mind the obvious candidate event is the Cataclysm itself. That would suggest the 3rd Descender was around in Teyvat 500 years ago, and they either caused the Cataclysm, or else they mitigated the Cataclysm so that it wasn't as bad as it would have been otherwise. Either way they changed fate - changed the outcome of the World Forumla.
Well we know the result of the World Formula changed at least once before because René reports that in the ancient texts he found something similar to a world formula prophecy where the predicted result was infinite cycling (like the old Dr Bondi approach to the Big Bang) but when René ran the numbers he predicted a Big Crash. Therefore between these two calculations the fate of Teyvat had been changed. Incidentally how on earth did these ancient records get preserved? Well how old were they anyway? One source seems to be Khaenri'ah and another possible source is Remuria. However the predictions may date to far earlier even than that. Whoever writes that the world is cycling presumably cannot have lived through a cycle, which would be impossible, but rather is managing to deuce it. They would need to have some information (data / history) survive a cycle, and too their own deductions and predictions would have to be secured in a way to survive the next cycle's end.
Now that's trivial if by "cycle" all that is meant is a local flooding of Fontaine. Put it in a water proof box, or send it to another nation. You're done. But it feels as if they're talking about more than just Fontaine here. Having said that the small feature of René's Ordo's doomsday clock hitting zero in the 4.2 trailer suggests René's doomsday has now arrived in 4.2 so is all that stuff just local to Fontaine after all? Assuming the cycles are all-Teyvat ending events the preservation of data is a problem, but not insurmountable, as we see with Nahida. Therefore the author of the infinite cycling world formula prophecy could have lived prior to the 2nd Throne. That would allow for the 2nd Throne as Descender 2 to be the one who changes the fate of Teyvat from infinite cycling to "everyone dies in about 8000 years". 8000 years later maybe the Cataclysm is the predicted Apocalypse date but something happens to change fate again and this delays the Apocalypse for another 500 years or so. This post-3rd Descender fate is the one René calculates.
Now if you want to place the author of the infinite cycling world forumla calculation / prediction as living in post-2nd Throne war Teyvat then the fate that the 2nd Descender brings about is the infinite cycling one, and the 3rd Descender is the one who changes the fate to become "world doomed in a few thousand years". I think it is a better fit for the Primordial One to be the guy who wants infinite cycling and the 2nd Descender breaks that (aka "break through shackles to the land" as Goddess of Flowers says). But your timing and your putting the Tiara sets post 2nd Throne war means you'd want the 2nd Throne to be the guy who changes the fate of Teyvat to be infinite cycling. then you need the 3rd Descender to stop that fate and introduce the Apocalypse scenario that René calculates.
Again all this fate changing is through the Irminsul (to which Descenders are immune) and hence Irminsul changes fate for real and doesn't just change memories.
@@ShadowXImpact
A thought occurred to me that as for examples of real world lore predicting in-game lore it would be best to avoid our own stuff because it gets personal too easily. Do you happen to recall any time any OTHER lore theorist used real world lore to predict something in-game? or as the basis of a theory that worked out / appears to have worked out? As far as I can see there are oddly few attempts to predict things from real-world lore. I guess the failure of Chess theory to predict the chess piece of the Inazuma gnosis (they said a Knight and it appears to be a Bishop). I think maybe back in the day Slime theory said there'd be two Electro Archons which was false of course. Dead ones don't count as we all knew all the female Archons had a prior (dead) Archon that had been replaced since v1 when Zhongli says only Venti and he are the originals.
Harbinger personalities seem almost a good match for the exact opposite of the Comedia. Dottore for example is not an intellectual light weight who pretends to be smart. Capitano is not a coward and a blow-hard. Nor has anyone predicted the Harbinger constellations on the basis of the real world lore of the symbols on the wheel.
Has anyone ever predicted an Ars Goetia name in advance? Or predicted what an Archon will do or be like on the basis of their name?
Comparisons with characters (or lore) from Honkai Impact 3 have always failed. Celstia isn't bombing cities because they get too high tech for fear of causing a Honkai incident. Nobody predicts what a character will do or what will happen to them on the basis of visual similarity to characters in HI3.
Same for comparisons between in-game gods and mythological real-world gods' lore. And clearly intended comparisons are often ignored, like Fischl has clear comparisons with Odin (one eye, Germanic language, raven pet, claims to be a god of judgement, has lightning powers) but nobody says Fischl has a son called Thor or that she lost her eye by trading it for knowledge of the future. In fact if anything they'd say King Irmin is Odin even though Fischl has more identifiers in common.
It's been over 3 years. Where is the fruit of this approach that, as you say, most lore theorists adopt?
Well, you don't really get to tell people what they should do or not, so even if you disagree with using pretty much anything, or even trying to predict something at all, it doesn't mean that people will do as you say.
The same goes for the concept of "other theorists". I am an individual, I decide for my channel. I don't ride the wave of other theorists, nor do I even watch their videos before making my own, in order to remain unbiased and make a video that reflects only my own thoughts. Just because others do or don't do something, it doesn't mean that I'll do the same. I'm not a mime nor a parrot.
This is entirely a viewer problem. If the viewer thinks that whatever the creator says or does is pointless, rather than asking the creator to stop doing what you think is wrong, the viewer should ask themselves "why am I watching something that will never reflect what I want?".
I don't like youtube videos about, i don't know, people using a ouijia board in an old abandoned asylum. I'm not going to tell the creator to stop, I'll simply don't watch it...
And even if tomorrow the devs decided to straight out say "yes, we just used random mythical names just because we liked them, but we never even read their stories", I still wouldn't regret everything I've done up until now.
I will have learned so many things I didn't know anyway, and my viewers may have learned those same, never before heard thing.
So to me, it would still be a win. Then why would I even stop?
That's, obviously, ignoring the fact that I disagree with your views, entirely...
Well that's fine if the point is merely to tell a nice sounding story and not to actually attempt to figure out the plot of the game.
@@ShadowXImpact
To me the question is simply "what works?"
@@ShadowXImpact
Interesting theory. I can see
“Water, Earth, Fire, Air” being the primordial elements since they represent the four states of matter. Makes me wonder if there may me some Avatar references to come. And if the Traveler is the one who will bring balance. That said, I wonder that secrets we will uncover in the nation of Pyro?
Oh, I just can't wait for Natlan and I can't wait for the ending notes in 4.2 to learn more about it and the Archon!!!
So you're hypothesizing the Nails had different elemental powers, although they appear to be the same. But the elemental powers you say came from the dragons? But then you list elements that you say should be associated not with the dragons but with the Primordial One? Like Ice (not Cryo), Earth (not Geo), Void (not Electro) and btw under that design you'd have to make Tsurumi Water since fog is made of Water which the ancients would have known.
Next you say the Nail sent had the same element as the one used to create that land in the first place but this makes no sense of the timeline as you've only talked about the 2nd throne / HP / Celestia creating new land with their different elements. Are you saying the PO also did this? So you're saying the PO made Mondstadt with Ice, Sumeru with Earth, and Liyue with "Void"?
9:26 when you say "created this current version of Teyvat" did you mean to say "the version of Teyvat that the PO created and was destroyed by the 2nd throne / HP / Celestia?
I guess I need to go back and look at the old videos you mentioned because I am totally not getting what you are describing. But it feels like some are pretty old and you might have changed your mind. But basically the factoids doing the heavy lifting with this lore are
(1) the idea that the 2nd throne won the war and is now calling itself HP or Celestia
(2) that the six elements mentioned in Enkanomiya are different from Teyvat's seven elements and that for a while the entire physics of Teyvat used those elements not the current seven.
technically, the nails are not the same. look at the two we can actually see, and you'll see that there are different "symbols" going around them: the chasm one has cubes, while the skyfrost one has chunks of ice circling around it.
I don't even know where you think I said that ice, earth, void, etc, are related to the primordial one and not the dragons, since I've always said that those are the powers of the dragons that the primordial one took and then used.
Yes, Tsurumi's fog could be water as well, it's no coincidence I said "you decide", although the ancients would have also known ice and fire, so I really don't see the difference there. We don't know if Tsurumi Island was frozen this long ago, and if it was, like it was the rest of the world (that is, the land around Sal Vindagnyr), if the nail was fire, it would have created the fog...
again, overcomplicating things and trying too hard to find a fault in the theory, as if that made a difference of whatever, and you end up confusing yourself to the point I barely understand what you're trying to say. The nails having the elementS used for the creation of Teyvat, first of all. I never said that the Second had a completely new set of elements, that's something you came up with, since I said that they used the powers/elements that the Primordial One took from the Dragons, powers that are most likely in the heavens. I specifically said that, since the nails use the elementS used in the creation, then the result of their interaction with the land, uses those same powerS of creation, but that doesn't mean that Mondstadt was created with Ice just because the nail was imbued with the power of Ice. as always, most of the times, the easiest explanation may be the better one. that specific nail had the power of Ice. nothing more.
No, when I say "this current version of Teyvat", it literally means what I said, "the current version of Teyvat". the Primordial One created the first version with the unified nation, the second arrived, fought the primordial one, (the second) won and earned the right to shape the world, so they laid down another layer of everything and created their own version of Teyvat, which is, like I said, "the current version of Teyvat".
Of course, some of the things I said in the old videos may be completely outdated considering the knowledge we have now.
Still, yes, I think the second who came won the war and they are the Heavenly Principles, most likely the three entities from the manga that Venti either despises or is afraid of;
the six elements (plus one for Nibelung) are the elements of the Light Realm that were, I think, used to create the elements that now exist in Teyvat. So they're different as in the Teyvat elements mirror the elements from the Light Realm. That's what I think it means for Egeria to be created to be like the Water Dragon but with elements of Teyvat.
test @@ShadowXImpact
OH I thought you might have deleted this comment - it's not showing up. OK.
At the moment I'm just trying to get the story straight by attempting to repeat it back to you in my own words and that's clearly revealing a lot of errors, which is the purpose so.... good?
Yeah the Nails are a little different. But not in ways suggestive of a specific element to my mind.
OK... so the Enkanomiyan set is the dragon powers, or the AC's words to describe the dragon powers, that the PO took and used to create PO-Teyvat over the top of dragon-Teyvat I guess? So it's layer on layer on layer? But obviously the PO had a lot of power before taking any from the dragons or else how did it beat the dragons, right? But if the PO brought any alien elements or powers they aren't used to make PO-Teyvat but instead only the dragon-Teyvat elements with the Enkanomiyan set names (Earth, Water etc).
Hm. That makes the Tiara artifacts harder to fit. They mention Seelies which dates them to the PO-era as Seelies are the servants of the PO, right? But they use words from the 2nd Throne's elemental set, the "Teyvat" set, the regular set of names?
You're saying the Nails are sent down by the PO then? because you gave them Enkanomiyan styled element words?
And then the 2nd Throne lays down a new layer of material to cover up the PO-Stuff which you say explains a lot of Enkanloiyan architecture buried underground.
But the 2nd Throne's element set (Teyvat set "Cryo, Pyro, Anemo etc") is simply a word change? or are there 14 elements? So when you say the 2nd throne lays down a new level of stuff it's not to replace the physics of the world of Teyvat but just to bury old buildings that would drop a clue about the existence of the prior regime?
@@ShadowXImpact
@@DavidJohnson-ib1dh I've never deleted any comment on this channel, so unless you're using the worst swearwords to insult me, I'm not deleting comments. oh, well, if you insulted me with those words, the post would be stopped by RUclips for review in the first place.
Let's see the errors.....
well, Susty's cubes do catch and remove objects, since she removed an entire explosion, so the cubes around the Nail in the Chasm do fit the idea of void erasing everything in its path. The ice around the skyfrost nail is pretty explanatory....
I have no idea what you wrote, also because I have a hard time with acronyms and I can't figure out what AC is. still, just to be clear, although I physically drew this in my last video:
Old world = actual planet, where the Dragons lived
Microcosm of Teyvat = if you want to call it a "bubble universe", although "microcosm" is pretty explanatory. it's the whole thing in which there's the inhabitable half and the abyss half
With that being said:
1) phanes creates a microcosm. In the microcosm there's Teyvat.
2) the Shades create a living half of the microcosm with mountains, rivers, oceans, animals, fish, plants and then humans.
3) PO and Second fight. Second wins. Second lays down a new layer that buries the land the PO created and builds something new, which is what we are exploring now.
For the elements, once again, the PO obviously had his own powers, otherwise he couldn't have defeated the dragons, that's a given. now, THIS IS MY THEORY: I think Teyvat was supposed to be a nursery for the humans so that, when the old world was terraformed, the Teyvat microcosm would have been released (break the eggshell) on the "old world", but with the Second's interruption, the PO never had the chance to complete his work.
This means that the Teyvat Elements mirror the Light Realm elements because they were supposed to merge once the world was released. The PO had the shades recreate the seven nations that also existed on the Old World for a reason, not out of a whim.
you are free to believe this theory or not, just learn to agree to disagree.
The tiaras are not harder to fit. they describe the world from the creation of this new layer to the celestial nails, which is also when the seelie were expelled from the heavens. Yes, they existed since the PO most likely, but with a new ruler, there's a chance that they were forced to just follow their rules since they did win against the PO.
And before you say it, we know that the seelie were expelled from the heavens when the nails came down because Nabu Malikata's first memory on Teyvat is her walking in the Desert, which was created by the Nail.
No. If I said that the PO is not ruling over Teyvat, how could I ever said that he sent down the Nails? this is logic, not even a theory. I just said what Before Sun and Moon says: the heavens were created, as well as everything inside Teyvat, after the Dragons were defeated. If everything in Teyvat was created with elements that mirror those from the Light Realm, then it is possible that the heavens, that are outside Tevyat (the loading screen where we found Susty) may have also been created with the elements of the dragons. a piece of that heaven then broke because of the fight and that may be the floating celestia's creation story, since it also seems to have those pillars all around, so the nails may have come from that floating Island.
by the way, and I thought I made it clear, but probably I didn't, I used the different names to make it easier for the viewers to understand when I was talking about the Elements of the Light Realm and when I was talking about the Elements of the Human Realm.
YES, the Second buried the previous buildings to do exactly what we know they wanted to do: completely erase any trace of everything that existed before them.
and no, once again, the 7 current elements were NOT created by the second who came. they were created by the shades that created Teyvat. again, the wings from Fontaine, there is a shade who used materials from this world to create something that existed in the Light Realm, meaning that these Teyvat materials have the same or very similar properties as the original Old World (the external) materials.
Oh I didn't mean to suggest you'd deleted it - your own post that is. maybe it was a refreshing issue. I just wasn't seeing it on the page but only through the "replies to you" feature. @@ShadowXImpact
Wonder 2 things.
Does the nails were really send voluntarily ?
And does the nails have elements ? Like a desert and a frozen mountain? That kinda opposite for things that are mostly identical
Well, Nahida said that the nails were used to fix the land, so it makes me think that they were sent in specific places for a specific reason, rather than them falling all at once without any reason. Then there's also Apep who was gathering Forbidden Knowledge right in the place where one of the nails descended on, so it really sounds intentional.
As for the nails having elements, we'll that's the whole theory here. Since there was a Primordial Sand and the rainforest was transformed into a desert, so sand, it makes me think that they have those elements inside. Same for Vindagnyr, it became frozen, which is another element, ice.
Unless they have the power of time and they regressed back to what they were in the beginning, since the rainforest may have been a desert at the beginning, and we know Sal Vindagnyr was frozen like the rest of the land, before being a verdant mountain, while tsurumi island may have reverted back to the moment in which fire melted the ice, but I don't know how I would feel about it.
Apep was hit by a nail, but she didn't regress to a previous state, so I'm more inclined to think they have the power of creation inside of them, since they (the Heavens) were also created after the dragons were defeated by the Primordial One
@@ShadowXImpact since we don't have a clear chronology on their fall, only approximation, I won't say they all fall down at the same time.
And we know there was a battle between the Primordial one and the 2nd throne.
It not a theory, just an observation, but the nails seem to have been broken from a bigger structure rather than being cut or even less likely made specifically for being send down.
Maybe apep was just at the bad place at the bad time xD
@@hirods9889 but they did come down all at the same time. Kapatcir witnessed the descent of multiple objects from the sky, one of which fell on Tsurumi Island, causing the fog, so she was talking about the nails.
And yeah, they look like they broke of from somewhere, but it could also be the result of millennia wearing them down, except for the one on dragonspine that straight up broke for some reason when it landed.
It feels like they were, indeed, broken off from something and sent down, like a very last minute emergency measure, so they were like "I don't have the time to be gentle, just break them off from where they are and throw them down" kinda thing.
It's also very strange that there is one for each nation specifically, so it would be a rather precise random occurrence. On the other hand, we know that Celestia, the floating island, has some columns around it, and it was stationed above dragonspine and later it moved to Fontaine, so maybe they come from there, a little island that broke off from the Heavens before Teyvat was capsized. It went up in the sky, threw the nails down, and then settled down above Fontaine for some reason we will probably find out about very soon
@@ShadowXImpact true, it would be an odd occurrence if it was accidental, but it's as weird as it has one of them for each nations.
I don't know how big the floating island is, but it's doesn't seem to be able to cover a whole nation, so the nails ''falling'' from there all at once on such a large distances is also odd
@@hirods9889 yeah, unless the island went to the middle of the sky, very high, and shot them down in the direction they needed to go, but at this point it feels like I'm trying to find a way to make it work.
Still, if Teyvat is capsized, then there should be nothing above the sky, since it should be on the ground or at least pointing downward, so I can't find an explanation to where they could have come from other than the floating island...
I believe primordial one is still alive but can't return to teyvat anymore and all these fighting makes it sound like it is a bit of an gamble where they wager whoever wins gets to reshape the land thus using divine nails
2nd throne or 2nd who came also sounds like different people because nibelung is most likely the 2nd who came which we know he wasn't successful in overthrowing and teyvat almost got obliterated and here i think the current master of heavenly principles comes a traveler from afar overthrown the god of humans and decided to rule the land but not everything went as he wanted to he started getting anxious and have doubts that's why i think zhongli is kinda important he seems like he knows current master of heaven but doesn't want to talk while venti in manga mentions celestia as he is remembering the old times it's kinda weird how these 2 gods who doesn't want to share much knows alot
Well, if the shades are copies of the Primordial One, I would think that they would have also died if he died, so him being unable to come back or, actually, him being imprisoned makes sense.
I didn't understand what you said about Nibelung, though. Did you say he is the second who came? Because the dragons fought against the heavenly principles and lost, but above all, Nibelung died and has come back to life only after Deshret's death.
Zhongli and Venti have to know who the 3 heavenly principles, the ones we see in the Manga. Most likely, the Tsaritsa also knows them, and since Ei was always with Makoto, she probably knows them too.
I mean, they made them the Archons and gave them the gnosis, so it should be normal for them, at least the original Archons, to have met them
As for the fact that they don't share much about them, it's kinda obvious. We're talking about the beings that rule the entire world, so they most likely can't talk about them at all
I hope a 2nd comment is fine, but I just went through all the domain descriptions, I can't believe I never read some of them. They're so full of lore tid-bits!
For one, a confirmation that Inazuma was connected to Teyvat, which I didn't know there was any actual evidence of it it's not really mentioned anywhere else I don't think
From the "Violet Court" domain description:
"Sometime in the ancient past, the mountains rose higher than the skies, and the earth was larger than heaven's dome. But one day, the mirror shattered, and the oceans arose. In these legends, this caused the court of the primeval sakura to become sundered from the other islands."
Which ALSO made me wonder me maybe this 'Primeval Sakura' is the primordial equivalent for Inazuma?? 🤔
Also from "Midsummer Courtyard":
"With the fall of the ancient lost civilization, the once prosperous and magnificent Sommernachtgarten was also buried underground, leaving only its ancient trees and stones to remember its past glory."
'Sommernachtgarten' suspiciously reminds me of Fischl/Amy....maybe there's much more to the story than we think?
Don't worry, you can post as much as you want, it's not a problem.
I don't know if this Primordial Sakura is another actual Primordial thing like the sand and the sea, but at this point it very well may be. Since the Sakura trees do electrocute people if there's a problem with them, it could be the actual first thunder that pierced the sky.
As for inazuma becoming an Archipelago, that makes sense. If anything, it makea little sense that Inazuma is the only nation that doesn't seem to fit with the rest of Teyvat, being an Archipelago that far off from everything else.
In this case, anyway, it enforces my idea that the land was created anew and then the water appeared, which in this case it broke inazuma off from the main pangea.
As for the sommernachtgarten, yeah it sounds like Fischl, but I think it's more like the stories she read as a child were based on ancient myths, like this sommernachtgarten.
@ShadowX5452Gaming I'm incredibly intrigued by the "primordial" stuff now, especially since you told us about the primordial sands just fits so nicely.
I really wanna know if there's an equivalent for geo & anemo lol I've been looking 🥹
And yeah fischl I think might just be coincidence too, but it was still a surprise for me to see one of the places in the book irl in Teyvat 🤯
@@ehlannahfhey2347 well, for geo should be sand. For anemo, that's a good question!
Maybe it's the air itself that has always been Primordial, although, at this point, I would expect some kind of tornado. We do be missing the Dornman Port area, maybe that's where we'll find it!
@@ehlannahfhey2347 no wait, we have the thousand winds actually, they may be the Primordial winds
@ShadowX5452Gaming
If the primordial sands are geo do we have an equivalent for dendro? Like a primordial tree?
I assume the sands were for dendro cuz Sumeru but it would definitely make sense for geo/earth as well. Maybe we don't have one cuz of the earth, fire, wind, water, ether, and void thing? 🤔
present!!
Yahoo!!!
OK I'm confused. You're currently saying the Primordial One is different from the Heavenly Principles / Celestia which you are now saying is the 2nd throne? Doesn't that mean that you'd need THREE sets of seven or eight elements now? The set from the dragons, the set from the Primordial One and finally the set for the HP / Celestia / 2nd Throne?
And if you are saying there was a bunch of weird climate stuff going on as the 2nd throne / HP / Celestia altered things and that is recorded on the tiara artifact sets, then isn't that after the Seelie got nerfed whereas the Tiara sets reference the Seelie?
And you're saying the underground Enkanomiya-like buildings were built deliberately underground to avoid these climate changes? But to me it feels like for each Tiara set the story being told is a thriving human society where everything is going well - up to the end. That doesn't seem like an underground existence. It would be more like "when can we get out of this cave?" than "will this wonderful prosperous life ever end?"
7:10 this doesn't work. You say Air and Earth already existed -- didn't water already exist too? And Electro is clearly just another reactive element in the Tiara set. Not "the Void" or whatever. Why do you have Dendro where Electro should be according to the Tiara sets? No, the Tiara set clearly are using the seven elements of Teyvat not just in name but in their qualities. That's why they only list the reactive elements. Cryo, Pyro, Hydro, Electro. That list makes no sense from the point of view of your hypothetical Greek cultural list of "seven" elements (really six). And anyway isn't the Teyvat seven what you're saying the 2nd Throne / HP / Celestia faction uses? So we wouldn't expect the Enkanomiyan names here anyway would we?
you know, the things I said are actually way easier than what you think, but I think you do tend to overcomplicate what I say and you end up being confused.
The Primordial One being different from the Heavenly Principles: yes, they're not the same, and it's Apep the one who pretty much confirmed it, rather than my theory. She talks about the Usurper, the Primordial One, and he's considered as such because he usurped the dragons' powers, and the outsiders, the heavenly principles (plural just like outsiderS), the ones who won that war and earned the right to shape the world as they saw fit.
Now, what do you mean with three sets of seven or eight elements? why would the heavenly principles have other elements if they come from the actual universe, the same place where the dragon lived? only Teyvat is a microcosm separate from the universe and has its own rules. everything else, what's outside (the old world and the rest of the universe, where the second who came, came) follow the original set of elements.
No, the tiaras, according to me, describe the time from after the world was recreated by the second who came (as Apep said), up until the world was entirely livable, but it specifically describes the evolution of the new world on Sal Vindagnyr, since the story is about the priests going down in a domain to ask the Heavens for answers, which is the Peak of Vindagnyr domain. the people who settled on that mountain, faced the icy winds until they found this verdant mountain, but that doesn't mean that everybody in the rest of the world had the same idea.
On Tsurumi Island, we know that the people lived underground because of the Murals that talk about things that existed before the nails came down, like the three moons. I also never said that those buildings were built by those people. I said that those were the buildings of the first civilization that were covered by the new layer of land that the Heavenly Principles laid down to create their own version of Teyvat, so those buildings have always been there.
just because the Tiaras didn't specifically talk about Dendro, it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, otherwise even air and earth, or anemo and geo, shouldn't exist. on the other hand, Air obviously exists since they had to breathe to live, earth exists because people don't levitate over nothingness, and, as a consequence, since the mountain was verdant, it means that plants had to have grown, and plants is Dendro. again, overcomplicating stuff just to deny the theory, as usual, I guess. Also, I'm using the enkanomiyan names mainly because, if Teyvat was created from the materials of the Old World, then if it was actually recreated a second time by the Heavenly Principles, they may have used the same powers and elements, hence the old names rather then the modern ones.
That list doesn't make sense for you, that's okay. I still think it's important, especially since the dragons are named after the elements from that list and not the elements of our characters. if that means nothing to you, that's okay. As I always say, I'm not here to convince people that I'm right, I'm here to share my ideas.
Awesome 👍
Thank you!!!
Aye im early!
Hope you'll like the video!!!
I just finished the video. It was very Enlightening.
Im personally curious if we're gonna encounter more areas with the primordial elements. And what effects it will have to the people of teyvat
@@oscarlara2040 I sure hope so! I mean, we're starting to deal with the Primordial elements, so we're definitely going to dive deep into this side of the lore the more we go forward with the story.
We're also halfway through the story, considering there's an 8th chapter in Khaenri'ah, so they have to give us more now!
OoOoOo hopefully we see primordial fire in natlan!