...I can't believe I never caught that. I don't think I can put anything over it now that it's posted, either. I don't know - maybe Ozymandius doesn't feel like explaining his works, so he's telling people to Google them instead.
God... the scale of it... the Reapers have been around for at least a billion of years. How many sentient races have they harvested? Thousands? Millions? How many people have they killed? Is there even a number that could possibly quantify the lives they've taken?
Well, assuming about a billion years, with an average 50,000 year cycles, that's about 20,000 harvests. Assuming about 10 sapient species per cycle (which assumes a lot, but would be consistent with the Modern Cycle), that's 200,000 sapient species. Ballparking the average population of the galactic civilizations at time of harvest at 50 billion, that would come to a death toll of 1 quadrillion sapient individuals. Basically, upwards of a Warhammer 40k kind of death toll.
Therefore, by the year 2186 CE, the Reapers would have eradicated approximately 20,000,000,000,000,000 (20 quadrillion) people. this is the conservative estimate.
@@BartlebysCorpse 20,000 harvests also means 20,000 or so Capital Ship Sovereign-class reapers, minus the odd one that managed to get itself killed. Each of them vastly stronger than the strongest Turian dreadnaught. Then there are the countless destroyer class reapers. Yeah, there was no chance to beat them conventionally.
Head-cannon. The dinosaurs where not killed by an asteroid, but by the Reapers. "Save yourselves, mammals. We will fend off the Reapers!".- Tyranosaurs Wrex, probably.
I have been wondering too, but I don't think dinosaurs would be the target (besides they didn't technically disappear, look at birds). Instead it could be that Earth was a colony of someone back then, given the Sol system has a relay it's very likely after millions of years (assuming the relays were built before 65 million years ago). But who knows, there is a real life hypothesis on if Earth had other sentiments civilizations before us, it's possible ...
dinosaurs evolve, travel through space, one of their colony ships crash lands on some lush but neurotoxic world, reapers wipe out the rest of their civilization, they degrade into a tribal nature and over countless generations they end up evolving into the krogan.
A reaper got REALLY pissed at this one species that was able to escape so long that they absolutely obliterated them on their hiding spot. So what if it killed off those lizards?
I can’t help but think that some of the former water worlds might have been Leviathan planets culled in the first harvest. And that some of the Frozen over water worlds might hiding places for the few Leviathan that escaped the first harvest.
Further hints can be seen in the planet name, "DC1938", which was altered from "DA1998". That stands for DreamWorks Animation, whose feature film debut was 1998.
I agree, the IM said that they discovered the mass weapon that killed the derelict reaper, but that "there are no traces of the species that took the shot" unfortunately. It has been 37 million years though, so it makes sense.
I mean - by the time of the war the systems alliance itself can take down multiple reapers in space. The issue isn't taking them out. The issue is there's so many of them that it barely matters if you took one out.
It took 3 human fleetsand shepard to take out sovereign, 1 standard reaper, and it takes 3 turian dreadnoughts, the largest and strongest known ships firing constantly to take out a single reaper and the turians have about 30 of them by the time the war starts, and there are probably thousands of reapers. The scale is horrifying
For me the "galaxy building" aspect of ME is what truly stands out as EXCEPTIONAL. That said, I wish the series had expanded more on Liara's ME1 comment about prior civilizations.
I'm going to speculate that the only reason the Terminus SEEM to have more info on ancient civilizations is explicitly because they're not under the control of the Council. It's not unreasonable to assert that the Asari are the dominant race of this cycle. The Asari ability to suppress and hide information is unrivaled even by the Salarians. They hid the existence of an intact Prothean beacon for thousands of years. On top of that, how many valuable archeological sites in Council space are off-limits only because of Council mandates? I fully believe that the Asari hoarded most of the valuable relics and information in the space they controlled.
To add onto this: throughout Mass Effect 1 & 2, it’s the Turian and Salarian ambassadors that deny the existence of Reapers first. The Asari councilor only plays off what either of them said, or just tried to gaslight Shepard. But she never fully outright denies the existence of the Reapers. It’s my belief the Asari were aware of and knew about the Reaper threat, but arrogantly assumed that their currently level of technology and biotics would be enough to handle it. The destruction of Sovereign in ME 1 could be seen as justification for this. After all, they were able to destroy Sovereign with just a few casualties (human casualties, depending on Shepard’s choices), how much worse could the rest of the Reaper fleet be?
@ebusive The more I learn about the Asari, the less I like them, the more I think of them as abusive and manipulative. I had a whole real world geopolitics rant for this but I’ll spare it and instead just say that it’s curious how often the good of the galaxy translates out to what benefits the Asari. They are not the only nation to exploit, supposedly noncoercive cooperative measures such as NGOs and civil society for cynical gain.
What's even worse is that Asari High Command had knowledge of the Reapers for THOUSANDS OF YEARS before Commander Shepheard, yet the Asari Councilor had THE NERVE to play dumb. This arrogance was devastating for the galaxy as it literally cost billions of lives to retrieve the information of the catalyst DURING AN ONGOING REAPER HARVEST.
@@seese9456 So basically if the Asari didn't dumb out, the Reapers would have shown up, right into a fully prepared militarized galaxy. If the Asari weren't delicate, they'd be the perfect race to break the cycle, with the diplomacy skills and long lifespans. The Krogan would be, if they didn't have a violent dickheadery addiction.
2 other things: 1. It's strongly implied that the adjutants from the Omega DLC are the reaperized versions of the inusanon. 2. There's one more potential alien race: Klencory's lost crypts of beings of light, at least according to that one volus. Complete hallucinations? Prothean beacon gone awry? Another alien race's final warning? Who knows.
One day, I'll talk about 2 in more detail. As for 1, I seem to have missed that little nugget...is that mentioned in a custcene, codex or other text, or from the Invasion comic?
@@BartlebysCorpse On the mass effect wiki it says that during the final battle with petrovsky you learn that the adjutants were based on a reaper developed virus from several cycles ago and contain genetic information not related to any currently existing species. I dont remember that part either though so I'm keeping my ears on for the next playthrough lol
I like how Klencroy is mentioned in ME 3 with the description saying that crazy Volus was right but chances are the reapers will just orbital bomb the planet on their way to some place more important.
I always thought it was an earlier version of the crucible. Since we learn in ME3 that each cycle worked on it and added to it. It makes sense to me that the cannon was a crucible that was not finished and fired what they had, killing 1 reaper.
@thefairylovesniper How would that work though? The Crucible doesn't shoot physical projectiles, and the dead Reaper has actual physical damage. And the Great Rift of Klendagon wouldn't exist from a Crucible firing.
Remember how ME2 kept dropping Dark Energy left and right? And the amount of planets all over the galaxy being described as extra-solar captures? It could be that before Bioware cut the dark energy plotline, that the inhabitants of those planets were using Mass Effect fields and biotics so much that their stars went supernova prematurely and blew up their planets out of orbit.
As I recall the dark energy plot line was scrapped because it was leaked far too early. In theory you should be able to go and find it somewhere. I'm far too lazy to do it though😂
I don’t get why they scrap thing just because of leaks. Like why does it matter if the story gets leaked? It’s not going to stop people from buying, playing it, and enjoying it. Like I never played mass effect until the legendary edition came out and I knew the story long before I played it because of RUclips videos about the original ending and I still played it and enjoyed it.
It’s also possible that the reapers just simply couldn’t find the info or there were random stragglers who put whatever they could into time capsules on other worlds. Remember reaper invasions were fast but not instant as these harvests took decades. That’s a long time for information to be lost or survivors desperate on worlds that the reapers would assume is not safe for their species to leave information behind that the reapers didn’t want to be found. Another thing to consider is that reapers wanted some pieces of previous civilizations to persist to allow them to continue evolving in systems they prefer. Lastly the reason so much prothean information survived is that since more of their tech is based off their genetic ability to perceive details…the reapers may not have known or be able to perceive what was on…well a lot of them. Aside from the fact they interacted with non space faring species allowing the them to potentially cover them up much like the ancient asari did for the temple. When a species is made their thralls, while obtaining the original species unique abilities they are notably muted. Like the banshees. They can barely throw a warp, dash, and shield…but nothing like the precision and skill of even some basic asari biotics. So it’s entirely possible when the protheans were enthralled the thralls didn’t have the means anymore to perceive the beacons as…well beacons and just thought it was architecture or what little information they could gleam was not perceived as a threat to the reapers.
In my opinion when a new race discovers the remnants of a ancient civilization it’s destroyed in the reaper harvest of their time only a small fraction of artifacts and information survives but becomes damaged or mistaken for another civilization in a different cycle, like how the statues of the Inusannon on Ilos could be mistaken for the Protheans or another race, also how many relics were destroyed in wars across the galaxy or natural means such as earth quakes or supernovas
I always took it as they were actually trying to encourage a "solution" to their own. The mass relays and the citadel were designed to make harvest easier. They both guided development and relied on being explained away by whatever former empire is found. That last part implies they don't actually want or need to cover up each cycle. Rather, they want to leave just enough pieces to let the evolution continue. You could say this is more domestication than evolution, but I can't completely agree. Half of Shepard's insane luck with indoctrination is implied to be because they see him as that possible solution, and are testing him. There's an argument to be made that the illusive man was the first they considered, but he failed and became the new saren.
So, what I'm getting at is yes- the Reapers are content to leave *some* evidence of past civilizations but...they also want to destroy anything that could hint at their own existence. Exactly how they would go about this is an interesting question, but the process from what we can observe is "brutally harvest the population, destroy everything you see, then bombard the whole planet from orbit when you're done."
@@BartlebysCorpse I think that's a fair take. You could say they wanted to leave evidence of the themes they were trying to correct (the cycles of war and collapse) as almost a cautionary example in the background of a civilizations development. They could have just glassed everything and reseeded whatever was lost since by design they catalogue all they destroy. Their methods are blunt almost as a demonstration.
Great video, and you've got a fantastic speaking presentation. Truly hope you continue various lore/story series, even into other games/genres. Well done!
There is a law reason why council space has less evidence of ancient aliens. As it is the place where the reapers first invade. it is the place they have the longest to clean.
Also, remember what Anderson said about the repairs to the citadel after sovereign’s attack? They’d put up a bulkhead and the keepers would take it down and fix it themselves. Leaving no real trace of any other presence there.
It baffles my brain how none of the writers took some of these concepts into the sequel. Instead we have to take orders from Cerberus and waste time on the collector plot which I’m the grand scheme of stopping the reapers means nothing!!! If mass effect 2 were about finding lost technology to use against the reapers, the writers wouldn’t have had to pull the crucible outta nowhere. Hell maybe we could’ve gotten a more unique backstory for the reapers instead of “rouge space AI” bottom line is ME2 is overall the reason we got a terrible trilogy ending bc part 2 of the trilogy was essentially a glorified side quest
My reaction to that is mostly, "yes, but." Most of the info here is from planet descriptions, and ME2 did keep building up the past with these (ME3 had less, but as I note, there's a reason for that). That said, I tend to agree that ME2 didn't move the overall plot forward the way it should have, even if some of the elements were pretty important imo.
Mass Effect 2 is probably my least favourite of the trilogy in terms of plot. Nothing really happens in it. And it could easily serve as an expansion of mass effect 1.
This is one of those cases where somebody will be unhappy. Mass affect isn’t Star Wars, there isn’t enough time or money to expand out on the lore and move up with the story. To much lore not enough story or vice versa. If they make mass affect into an MMO which they should than they could achieve that. However, this was a straightforward game that needed to make money. Like a novel it needed a beginning, middle, and end. The story yes could have been better. At the end of the day however it was still a beautifully told story. Touching upon several moral conundrums that humanity today faces and could learn from. All without it being to preachy and in your face.
God I miss the mission. One of the few regrets I have about moving to Seattle is the food that I can no longer have. I used to live above the grocery store on 18th and mission. Taqueria Cancun and the mission street oyster bar were favorite spots. Nizarios on Valencia was my fav spot. Used to hang out at uptown on 17th (rip)
There's one key detail from Aphras that sets it apart from the other examples: the available evidence points to a civilization in its Bronze Age. Why would the Reapers attack a planet so far from even reaching outer space? It doesn't make sense for the Reapers to harvest them at that early stage.
It's a good question, and there's more than possible answer. The possibility that mostly sidesteps the question is that these Bronze Age relics were all that were left after the bombardment. Another possibility is that a more advanced species either camped out or hid on the planet, and the Reapers found out and paid them a visit. Of course, there's also the possibility that the Reapers didn't visit this planet at all and that the bombardment was committed by someone else. There's plenty of room to speculate!
@@BartlebysCorpse The "funniest" answer is that they were literally bombed back to the Stone I mean Bronze Age. We see plenty of advanced stuff survive on other worlds, but you might be right about all that remains. We know more about the Old Kingdom of Egypt than the New, because papyrus decays but stone tablets do not. EDIT: Oh wait! Maybe the inhabitants of Tosal Nym colonized Aphras even though the natives were only at the Bronze Age!
Never heard that one.... Of course, there's some Dragon Age references sprinkled throughout the series, like the scientist on Eden Prime, and the statue in Kasumi's loyalty mission. Wasn't aware of the moon rumor, though.
Fair. Honestly, I read that book once a long time ago- I powered through it during a road trip when I was in high school, and that except is what stood out more than anything else.
@@BartlebysCorpse it's honestly way more important to know a concept than it is to have encyclopedic knowledge of who said what, where, and when. You clearly spent investigative energy and mental storage on the content you produced that I found engaging and enjoyable, perfection is unreasonable expectation. Figured since I had that data point stored in my brain I'd give it to you.
That is the end of the Firewalker DLC. It was packaged into new copies of ME2 when it first came out (at least, I think it was- this would have been back when game companies were doing that sort of thing as a way of sidestepping potential losses from sales of pre-owned games), then included in subsequent rereleases. It's probably easy to skip over, since it's not required, and I suspect part of the reason they made it was to experiment with vehicle sections.
@@BartlebysCorpseoh I see, thanks! I've played Firewalker only once because I think it's kinda boring but it seems I never even finished it lol. Will try it again in my next playthrough
@@BartlebysCorpseThe entire post is entirely allegories to Superman. DC launched Superman with Action Comics #1 in June of 1938. Rua is a play on Krypton's sun, a red giant named Rao. The death of the planet being implosion, is the exact method of destruction that Krypton suffered. Msv Kent, is a reference to the adopted family of superman. Using crystalline matrices as computer interfaces..... None of that screams megamind to me, other than maybe the section about the infant or his power. Hell, they even tossed in having one of the gases the infant breathed be krypton, just for another reference.
I've just finished my 4th run of the whole series and here are some thoughts on the topic of how the reapers deal with evidence of their existence and previous civilizations. I mostly agree with what you described, where my own interpretation varies is that I don't think they try to erase all evidence of previous civilizations. I believe they leave select evidence of the previous civilization they harvested but not any other before, just the previous one. Why only leave one ? Leaving more would bring too many questions, an extinction is understandable, more than one raises too many questions. Think about Liara in ME1, she managed to piece together the fact that there was a cycle and immediately got suspicious of what was wiping out civilizations through the ages. If there had been more data to corroborate her gut feeling her theories would have been taken seriously and been a danger to reapers secrecy. Who leave one at all ? Well to have a decoy in place to explain the relays and citadel and also give enough technical data to new civilizations to develop along the path desired by the reapers. If you let the new civilizations develop their own technologies they might take unexpected turns or learn too much and this could be problematic. This leads me to some issues with the crucible and the catalyst. We are told that the crucible is a weapon designed through the ages by the various civilizations but that none ever managed to finish in time. First issue here, while you perfectly explained why and how some unwanted evidence to previous civilizations was left behind by the reapers, things they simply missed, something as huge as the crucible could not have been missed several times in a row. It's too big for it to be easily missed and it makes statistically no sense for an item to be missed every single time. It's bound to be found and destroyed over the many harvests it took for it to reach us. Another issue I have is that it uses the citadel as the catalyst. Sure on paper it makes some sort of sense, you build a mega-structure that generates a huge power wave and send that wave through the relays to reach the whole galaxy. To do so you use the master relay the one that controls them all : the citadel. Only it would be a miracle that they would be able to build something that can interface with the citadel and use it. Before the reapers appear for the harvest the current civilizations have no idea they even exist or are coming to destroy them so no plans to build anything has been made. As soon as the reapers arrive they size the citadel and block all the mass relays isolating all the systems communication capabilities. They can't communicate or coordinate anything so how could they plan such a huge undertaking and also they have lost access to the citadel so how could they build something that can interface with it when they can't analyse it and even less test it ? Anyone who has ever created a program knows that it'll fail at first and need to be adjusted before it works, even more so if it interfaces with another already existing program that you didn't create yourself. And even more how could they create a weapon that uses the mass relays when they don't even know how it works ? We are told that the Protheans are the first to start grasping that knowledge, barely , before the reapers start to harvest them. They barely managed to build a single relay that linked one way only to the citadel, the conduit, and they dis so after the reapers had left. And that team of scientists didn't know about the crucible or Vigil would have told us. In fact they made sure to hide themselves and Ilos from the reapers and the other protheans, they had no contact with the rest of the galaxy and wouldn't have known about the crucible. We know that the citadel is made so that only the keepers know of the inner works of it so that the trap is not discovered. before the attack they don't know that it's a relay so they couldn't even have some blueprints somewhere that they would salvage during the attack and use later. And what were their plans to bring the crucible to the citadel ? They wouldn't have had access to the relays, they were closed by he reapers after sizing the citadel in the first hours of the harvest. They would have had no way to bring together a fleet big enough to protect the device, also the citadel would be fully occupied by the reapers and they would have had no chance at all to get a team inside to open the arms like we did. We managed only because the reapers didn't occupy the citadel, not fully. And honestly even that was sketchy. Sure there was the conduit but as I stated only the Protheans aver came close to understanding th mass relay technology, no conduit possible for the many civilizations that worked on the crucible before them, and in fact only the team on Ilos knew about that and they were isolated from the rest so the ones building the crucible didn't know about that. So to me the only explanations that makes sense are : - the crucible is another trap made by the reapers, they gave us the relays and the citadel and the FTL tech so that we wouldn't develop our own tech that they didn't control, they gave us the crucible so that we wouldn't look for another solution, something a divided galaxy couldn't build anyway and even if one cycle succeeded well the crucible doesn't what they want it to do and nothing else. But this theory has it's flaws, like why then leave the possibility of destroying the reapers or even control them? This would only work if the indoctrination theory was true and it would suppose that the destroy option is a decoy and doesn't work, just a test to see if the indoctrination worked. But that theory has been denied by the devs and the extended cut/legendary edition -The crucible was developed by the leviathan at least the initial draft and given to the civilizations cycle after cycle during the harvest in the hopes one would be able to build it? They don't do it themselves to avoid detection, and that's also why they don't try and have it be built in between harvests, they know sovereign is watching. it's also how they have the intel on the citadel, they built the original AI they have it's code and can use controlled subjects to study the citadel I'm sure. They might even have coded a failsafe in the child brat that forces it to allow for the destruct option. If someone has the patience to read the whole thing I would be curious about any feedback on this :p
There's a lot there, and I power read it, so I may be glossing over a thing here or there (also, it's a topic I expect to touch on sometime in the future), but the ability of civilizations to develop something like the Crucible and pass on details to future cycles depends on a number of things. Certain members would need enough time and breathing room to study the workings of Relays and Reapers- not impossible, but extremely difficult and subject to them becoming indoctrinated by Reaper artifacts and/or simply found and destroyed. They would need to be able to seed certain data around the galaxy for others to find- again, not impossible, but still subject to either being found or otherwise destroyed during a bombardment. The Leviathan don't express any super detailed insider knowledge of the Crucible, but it's always possible they'd omit some of what they know, or some future game might decide to establish that they were concealing their knowledge or involvement. The most literal reading is that the design was iterated upon once a weakness was found. The first time, the weapon is able to target either an individual Reaper or a small area. That's obviously not enough on its own. The weapon and its wielders are then destroyed, but some record is still floating out there. Somewhere down the line millions of years later, another species manages a version that interfaces with a Mass Relay. That is more effective, but still not enough, and the weapon and its wielders are destroyed, but some record is still floating out there. Somewhere down the line millions of years later, a species figures out that this could theoretically interface with the Citadel. This never happens, but they work to seed the knowledge so that someone else would find it. Given all of the above, you could see why nobody succeeds in about a billion years.
My theory about why it uses the mass relays and the Citadel is kinda simple, actually. You have a cyclic, massive invasion which deliberately and systematically destroys you and almost everything you've built. You can't win. You know this. But you want to give as much of a leg up as you can to the ones who are going to come after you. You can't leave materiel, since the Reapers will destroy it after you're dead. But what's the one thing that you know, for a fact, that the Reapers aren't going to fuck with? That's going to still be there in thousands of years when the societies currently banging rocks together get to your level? The relays. The Citadel. Tech you know that they'll at least know a LITTLE about. For all the talk about not knowing anything about the citadel tech and the relays, those ships still have to TALK to the dang things. Know enough to build out entire cities on the Citadel's frameworks. So instead of trying to design a weapon from scratch and hope that your future cycle compatriots can figure it out, you build a payload to the delivery system that's already waiting for you. the intent, I think, was to have the crucible built ahead of time, and waiting for when the reapers come through. Y'know, like could have happened if the council had immediately acted and the galaxy had just a few decades more of a head start.
@@stargate525 Billion of people on earth know how to use a computer but know nothing about how they work, even devs and other tech people wouldn't know to interface with a computer without using code already made and built in an operating system. If tomorrow a virus fried all operating systems and the devs were prevented from analyzing the computer parts to build a new operating system they would be screwed. Ingame the Asari who were there first and every other race who is on the citadel use it perfectly well knowing nothing about it's inner working, it's why the keepers are there. We know that the Protheans didn't know a thing about it either. Also your theory doesn't solve the issue of how did countless cycles manage to pass along the plans to the next cycle. First they couldn't use the relays so they were stuck in whatever solar system they were in. They could only hide the plans in that system, no guarantee that in the next cycle one of the galactic races would colonise or be born in that specific solar system. And that the luck would hod for hundreds of cycles. Second hide it well enough that the reapers won't find it when they fine tooth comb the whole galaxy to erase any trace of themselves or any tech and how do you expect anyone to be able to find it ? Or hide it somewhere you're sure another cycle will find it if they happen to explore there and you're also sure the reapers will find it. Also the crucible was designed to send energy through the galaxy meaning it's designed to destroy reapers that are already in it. If you wanted to give the next cycle a chance you would design a weapon that can also send energy towards dark space to destroy the reapers before they invade. To me the crucible wasn't made by any of the previous cycles.
The crucible was allowed to be developed and built. The catalyst wanted to test it or ''alter the variables''. 1. No reaper forces found and attacked the crucible during its contruction. Its location can hardly be called a secret, we send crew, resources and material to it during the entire me3 game. Surely they could track that. 2. No reapers attack the crucible during the cutscenes (low EMS), only escort ships are attacked, the crucible is left alone. The ''severe damage'' the catalyst talks about, could simply come from bad construction, collisions etc. 3. The crucible turns off immediately after you refuse to chose one of the 3, making it obvious that the catalyst has been in control of it all the way.
@@TheWireLayer I agree that the catalyst let it happen, but I don't see what purpose it would have for it ? Testing what ? Whipping out it's own creation, the reapers or leaving them to disembodied Shep to control just to test some parameters ? To me it looks more like my 2nd theory, it's leviathan's weapon and the catalyst has a block preventing him from destroying it. Or something else I've been mulling over : The catalyst itself said : "The created always rebel against their creator". Well it created the reapers... might be they took over and shackled the catalyst so it's using the crucible and any influence it still has over the reapers to reset the situation. Would explain why it didn't prevent the protheans from Ilos to modify the signal to the keepers and why it didn't open the relay in ME1 when the keepers failed to do it.
Definitely possible. Part of the Drake equation involves the planet being at such a moderate distance from the local star to maintain a general temperature suitable for life, so even after life's wiped out on a world, it's more likely to reappear there than the average planet.
This is a very interesting question. Just look at Earth. You're gonna tell me that in the billions of years of life on this blue rock alone, humans are the ONLY species that EVER developed enough to grow a civilization?
Yes @devilishman the, there is absolutely zero evidence of any advanced society before homo species started advancing. If we truly had precursors they would've be in the fossil record. Though if you want to say that in the distant future another none human species will develope advanced societies then yes I agree.
14:00 Along the shore the cloud waves break, The twin suns sink 'neath the lake, The shadows lengthen In Carcosa. Strange is the night where black stars rise, And strange moons circle through the skies But stranger still is Lost Carcosa. Songs that the Hyades shall sing, Where flap the tatters of the King, Must die unheard in Dim Carcosa. Song of my soul, my voice is dead; Die thou, unsung, as tears unshed Shall dry and die in Lost Carcosa.
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maybe you talked about them in a different video. but shouldnt the rachni and the thorian be in it? javik talks about the rachni when you bring him to the "missing scouts" mission in me 3.
While both would make sense within this miniseries, I decided to stick to dead, pre-Prothean civilizations. I do discuss the Thorian in my video on Prothean Planets. I'll touch on the Rachni sooner rather than later as well...
That would be Mario. He tends to do that if I'm recording or on a call. Something about speaking into a device causes his brain cell to decide it's time for him to get vocal too.
So its not exactly headcanon so much as a rationalization, but i think only sovereign was meant to be a cuddlefish and each reaper was meant to be a unique shape like the human reaper we see in 2. This concept must have been scrapped when 3 was on the drawing board to reduce time and cost of making new models for every reaper appearance instead resorting to efdectively copy paste. Make you wonder what 3 could have been if given another year to cook.
Well this is already a proven fact the data pad joker hands shephard at the end of me2 has reapers of very different designs but it's unreasonable to expect them to have been able to make that many different designs. I'm pretty fond of the core of the reaper looking like the species theory
I was wondering when someone would notice that... Yeah, whenever either me or my wife are on a call (or as I've found, when I do any sort of voice recording), this goon starts feeling left out and wants to be involved. That, and he usually wants more food...because even though we've been feeding him at the same times every day for however many number of years, he's convinced that today is the day we'll starve him.
Your saying that a boy being found as the lone survivor of his planet by a ship called the Kent is a reference to mega mind and not Superman who was was the sole survivor of his planet and take in by the Kent family 😑. Are you high?
If I remember with me2 or 3 lore a single reaper is created apon a civilization collapse so if that is accurate the amount of reapers is the amount of civilizations wasted by them
Not necessarily sovereign class reapers are comprised of the main species of a cycle ie the prothean and then would've been the council races, destroyers are comprised of secondary races such krogan or quarian but some races that aren't large enough such as drell would've just been destroyed without a reaper being made.😊
When people go "hUrDuR X Y Z cOuLd EaSiLy DeFeAt ThE rEaPeRS" just shake my head. I mean, yeah, d u h, did it take all of your IQ to rationalize that something out of universe applying to higher power rules could defeat a being restricted to a smaller powerscsle of universe? Do you want some uh, hesitant applause? Just smooth brain comments. You can do the same thing to any fictional universe bad guy, and even more easily, like just take any bad guy or force in a fictional verse and then argue a higher deific power being introduced to said setting would fix the issue. And bam. That sounds dumb, because thats what all of those comments are saying more or less x,D
Look up my works? Not look upon my works?
...I can't believe I never caught that. I don't think I can put anything over it now that it's posted, either.
I don't know - maybe Ozymandius doesn't feel like explaining his works, so he's telling people to Google them instead.
@@BartlebysCorpse lmfao 🤣😂😁 yes!!!! Ok, that was witty. You got a sub
Pinning this because I'm pretty sure someone else is gonna notice...
@@BartlebysCorpseyes, it was noticed.
"Look ON my works" not "Look up my works".
God... the scale of it... the Reapers have been around for at least a billion of years. How many sentient races have they harvested? Thousands? Millions? How many people have they killed? Is there even a number that could possibly quantify the lives they've taken?
Well, assuming about a billion years, with an average 50,000 year cycles, that's about 20,000 harvests. Assuming about 10 sapient species per cycle (which assumes a lot, but would be consistent with the Modern Cycle), that's 200,000 sapient species. Ballparking the average population of the galactic civilizations at time of harvest at 50 billion, that would come to a death toll of 1 quadrillion sapient individuals.
Basically, upwards of a Warhammer 40k kind of death toll.
@@BartlebysCorpseWell, counting the Rachni and Raloi, that makes the number 12.
Therefore, by the year 2186 CE, the Reapers would have eradicated approximately
20,000,000,000,000,000 (20 quadrillion) people. this is the conservative estimate.
@@BartlebysCorpse 20,000 harvests also means 20,000 or so Capital Ship Sovereign-class reapers, minus the odd one that managed to get itself killed. Each of them vastly stronger than the strongest Turian dreadnaught. Then there are the countless destroyer class reapers. Yeah, there was no chance to beat them conventionally.
They said it themself: Every single Reaper is one harvested species.
Head-cannon. The dinosaurs where not killed by an asteroid, but by the Reapers. "Save yourselves, mammals. We will fend off the Reapers!".- Tyranosaurs Wrex, probably.
I have been wondering too, but I don't think dinosaurs would be the target (besides they didn't technically disappear, look at birds). Instead it could be that Earth was a colony of someone back then, given the Sol system has a relay it's very likely after millions of years (assuming the relays were built before 65 million years ago). But who knows, there is a real life hypothesis on if Earth had other sentiments civilizations before us, it's possible ...
dinosaurs evolve, travel through space, one of their colony ships crash lands on some lush but neurotoxic world, reapers wipe out the rest of their civilization, they degrade into a tribal nature and over countless generations they end up evolving into the krogan.
A reaper got REALLY pissed at this one species that was able to escape so long that they absolutely obliterated them on their hiding spot. So what if it killed off those lizards?
I can’t help but think that some of the former water worlds might have been Leviathan planets culled in the first harvest.
And that some of the Frozen over water worlds might hiding places for the few Leviathan that escaped the first harvest.
7:39 Ah yes, "superman". We have dismissed those claims
Further hints can be seen in the planet name, "DC1938", which was altered from "DA1998". That stands for DreamWorks Animation, whose feature film debut was 1998.
@BartlebysCorpse Or.... its simply referencing Superman, who was first published by DC Comics in 1938. 😂
@@VelociraptorsOfSkyrimor, its simply him adding to the joke.
@@alexkrystaszek5201 It's a poor joke if no one gets it
@alexkrystaszek5201 no, he got it wrong, and he can't admit it due to his ego. It's superman, not megamind.
I really wish we knew more about the planet Klendagon or the people who took out a reaper.
I agree, the IM said that they discovered the mass weapon that killed the derelict reaper, but that "there are no traces of the species that took the shot" unfortunately. It has been 37 million years though, so it makes sense.
I mean - by the time of the war the systems alliance itself can take down multiple reapers in space.
The issue isn't taking them out. The issue is there's so many of them that it barely matters if you took one out.
It took 3 human fleetsand shepard to take out sovereign, 1 standard reaper, and it takes 3 turian dreadnoughts, the largest and strongest known ships firing constantly to take out a single reaper and the turians have about 30 of them by the time the war starts, and there are probably thousands of reapers. The scale is horrifying
should have studied that cannon and retro fitted it with thanix tech
@@jamescordial3975 I don't think there's much left to study considering this cannon has been exposed to nature for 37 million years
For me the "galaxy building" aspect of ME is what truly stands out as EXCEPTIONAL. That said, I wish the series had expanded more on Liara's ME1 comment about prior civilizations.
I'm going to speculate that the only reason the Terminus SEEM to have more info on ancient civilizations is explicitly because they're not under the control of the Council.
It's not unreasonable to assert that the Asari are the dominant race of this cycle. The Asari ability to suppress and hide information is unrivaled even by the Salarians. They hid the existence of an intact Prothean beacon for thousands of years. On top of that, how many valuable archeological sites in Council space are off-limits only because of Council mandates?
I fully believe that the Asari hoarded most of the valuable relics and information in the space they controlled.
That's also a pretty reasonable assumption.
To add onto this: throughout Mass Effect 1 & 2, it’s the Turian and Salarian ambassadors that deny the existence of Reapers first. The Asari councilor only plays off what either of them said, or just tried to gaslight Shepard. But she never fully outright denies the existence of the Reapers. It’s my belief the Asari were aware of and knew about the Reaper threat, but arrogantly assumed that their currently level of technology and biotics would be enough to handle it. The destruction of Sovereign in ME 1 could be seen as justification for this. After all, they were able to destroy Sovereign with just a few casualties (human casualties, depending on Shepard’s choices), how much worse could the rest of the Reaper fleet be?
@ebusive
The more I learn about the Asari, the less I like them, the more I think of them as abusive and manipulative. I had a whole real world geopolitics rant for this but I’ll spare it and instead just say that it’s curious how often the good of the galaxy translates out to what benefits the Asari. They are not the only nation to exploit, supposedly noncoercive cooperative measures such as NGOs and civil society for cynical gain.
What's even worse is that Asari High Command had knowledge of the Reapers for THOUSANDS OF YEARS before Commander Shepheard, yet the Asari Councilor had THE NERVE to play dumb. This arrogance was devastating for the galaxy as it literally cost billions of lives to retrieve the information of the catalyst DURING AN ONGOING REAPER HARVEST.
@@seese9456 So basically if the Asari didn't dumb out, the Reapers would have shown up, right into a fully prepared militarized galaxy. If the Asari weren't delicate, they'd be the perfect race to break the cycle, with the diplomacy skills and long lifespans. The Krogan would be, if they didn't have a violent dickheadery addiction.
2 other things:
1. It's strongly implied that the adjutants from the Omega DLC are the reaperized versions of the inusanon.
2. There's one more potential alien race: Klencory's lost crypts of beings of light, at least according to that one volus. Complete hallucinations? Prothean beacon gone awry? Another alien race's final warning? Who knows.
One day, I'll talk about 2 in more detail. As for 1, I seem to have missed that little nugget...is that mentioned in a custcene, codex or other text, or from the Invasion comic?
@@BartlebysCorpse On the mass effect wiki it says that during the final battle with petrovsky you learn that the adjutants were based on a reaper developed virus from several cycles ago and contain genetic information not related to any currently existing species. I dont remember that part either though so I'm keeping my ears on for the next playthrough lol
@@gavinperch9413 Really? I need to replay ME3 then
@@BartlebysCorpseIt's mentioned in the planetary description of Klencory itself in ME1 and ME3.
I like how Klencroy is mentioned in ME 3 with the description saying that crazy Volus was right but chances are the reapers will just orbital bomb the planet on their way to some place more important.
If you guys haven't seen "Forbidden Planet" it is a masterpiece. It's crazy what they could do in the 50s with limited technology
Also " fantastic planet " translated if you want to really feel like you are on an alien planet.
30:58 These guys basically had the Galaxy Gun from Star War legends. I really wish we could have seen what this cannon looked like.
I always thought it was an earlier version of the crucible. Since we learn in ME3 that each cycle worked on it and added to it. It makes sense to me that the cannon was a crucible that was not finished and fired what they had, killing 1 reaper.
@thefairylovesniper How would that work though? The Crucible doesn't shoot physical projectiles, and the dead Reaper has actual physical damage. And the Great Rift of Klendagon wouldn't exist from a Crucible firing.
Just in time for coffee.
This actually went public a little early, apparently. I was making dinner on the other side of the globe when I got this notification. :p
Here for my obligatory "Ah yes, "Reapers"." comment.
ah yes, the comment
Remember how ME2 kept dropping Dark Energy left and right? And the amount of planets all over the galaxy being described as extra-solar captures? It could be that before Bioware cut the dark energy plotline, that the inhabitants of those planets were using Mass Effect fields and biotics so much that their stars went supernova prematurely and blew up their planets out of orbit.
As I recall the dark energy plot line was scrapped because it was leaked far too early. In theory you should be able to go and find it somewhere. I'm far too lazy to do it though😂
I don’t get why they scrap thing just because of leaks. Like why does it matter if the story gets leaked? It’s not going to stop people from buying, playing it, and enjoying it. Like I never played mass effect until the legendary edition came out and I knew the story long before I played it because of RUclips videos about the original ending and I still played it and enjoyed it.
@emo565 I believe they were pressured by EA to scrap that plotline following the leak. Execs there were probably afraid they’d lose potential buyers.
I always belived that at 30:30 that mass weapon was an older, unfinished version of the crucible that we see in me3.
28:03 "meow"
Yo I read this as it was happening. Wtf
Am I the only one who got the Mega Mind joke 🤣
Yessss ive been looking for long-form Mass effect lore videos for ages
Listening to this as i do work on the car , beautiful. Very mentally stimulating
It’s also possible that the reapers just simply couldn’t find the info or there were random stragglers who put whatever they could into time capsules on other worlds.
Remember reaper invasions were fast but not instant as these harvests took decades. That’s a long time for information to be lost or survivors desperate on worlds that the reapers would assume is not safe for their species to leave information behind that the reapers didn’t want to be found.
Another thing to consider is that reapers wanted some pieces of previous civilizations to persist to allow them to continue evolving in systems they prefer.
Lastly the reason so much prothean information survived is that since more of their tech is based off their genetic ability to perceive details…the reapers may not have known or be able to perceive what was on…well a lot of them. Aside from the fact they interacted with non space faring species allowing the them to potentially cover them up much like the ancient asari did for the temple. When a species is made their thralls, while obtaining the original species unique abilities they are notably muted.
Like the banshees. They can barely throw a warp, dash, and shield…but nothing like the precision and skill of even some basic asari biotics.
So it’s entirely possible when the protheans were enthralled the thralls didn’t have the means anymore to perceive the beacons as…well beacons and just thought it was architecture or what little information they could gleam was not perceived as a threat to the reapers.
Loved it. I always wanted to know more about the Mass effect mystery planets. Thanks.
In my opinion when a new race discovers the remnants of a ancient civilization it’s destroyed in the reaper harvest of their time only a small fraction of artifacts and information survives but becomes damaged or mistaken for another civilization in a different cycle, like how the statues of the Inusannon on Ilos could be mistaken for the Protheans or another race, also how many relics were destroyed in wars across the galaxy or natural means such as earth quakes or supernovas
i believe the reaper left just enough relics to influence the next cycle. 😊
I always took it as they were actually trying to encourage a "solution" to their own. The mass relays and the citadel were designed to make harvest easier. They both guided development and relied on being explained away by whatever former empire is found. That last part implies they don't actually want or need to cover up each cycle. Rather, they want to leave just enough pieces to let the evolution continue. You could say this is more domestication than evolution, but I can't completely agree. Half of Shepard's insane luck with indoctrination is implied to be because they see him as that possible solution, and are testing him. There's an argument to be made that the illusive man was the first they considered, but he failed and became the new saren.
So, what I'm getting at is yes- the Reapers are content to leave *some* evidence of past civilizations but...they also want to destroy anything that could hint at their own existence. Exactly how they would go about this is an interesting question, but the process from what we can observe is "brutally harvest the population, destroy everything you see, then bombard the whole planet from orbit when you're done."
@@BartlebysCorpse I think that's a fair take. You could say they wanted to leave evidence of the themes they were trying to correct (the cycles of war and collapse) as almost a cautionary example in the background of a civilizations development. They could have just glassed everything and reseeded whatever was lost since by design they catalogue all they destroy. Their methods are blunt almost as a demonstration.
Or they try to use this "warning" as a way to de-militarise the species of Galaxy.
Great video, and you've got a fantastic speaking presentation. Truly hope you continue various lore/story series, even into other games/genres. Well done!
Also cool to know that Presop looks exactly like the moon of Dragon Age
I work in Hazamat Demolition. Great comparison.
There is a law reason why council space has less evidence of ancient aliens. As it is the place where the reapers first invade. it is the place they have the longest to clean.
Also, remember what Anderson said about the repairs to the citadel after sovereign’s attack?
They’d put up a bulkhead and the keepers would take it down and fix it themselves. Leaving no real trace of any other presence there.
It baffles my brain how none of the writers took some of these concepts into the sequel. Instead we have to take orders from Cerberus and waste time on the collector plot which I’m the grand scheme of stopping the reapers means nothing!!! If mass effect 2 were about finding lost technology to use against the reapers, the writers wouldn’t have had to pull the crucible outta nowhere. Hell maybe we could’ve gotten a more unique backstory for the reapers instead of “rouge space AI” bottom line is ME2 is overall the reason we got a terrible trilogy ending bc part 2 of the trilogy was essentially a glorified side quest
My reaction to that is mostly, "yes, but." Most of the info here is from planet descriptions, and ME2 did keep building up the past with these (ME3 had less, but as I note, there's a reason for that). That said, I tend to agree that ME2 didn't move the overall plot forward the way it should have, even if some of the elements were pretty important imo.
Mass Effect 2 is probably my least favourite of the trilogy in terms of plot. Nothing really happens in it. And it could easily serve as an expansion of mass effect 1.
I wanna know what the story will BE in upcoming ME4
This is one of those cases where somebody will be unhappy. Mass affect isn’t Star Wars, there isn’t enough time or money to expand out on the lore and move up with the story. To much lore not enough story or vice versa. If they make mass affect into an MMO which they should than they could achieve that. However, this was a straightforward game that needed to make money. Like a novel it needed a beginning, middle, and end. The story yes could have been better. At the end of the day however it was still a beautifully told story. Touching upon several moral conundrums that humanity today faces and could learn from. All without it being to preachy and in your face.
@@Spalthersaartrash. It’ll be absolute trash.
God I miss the mission. One of the few regrets I have about moving to Seattle is the food that I can no longer have. I used to live above the grocery store on 18th and mission. Taqueria Cancun and the mission street oyster bar were favorite spots. Nizarios on Valencia was my fav spot. Used to hang out at uptown on 17th (rip)
There's one key detail from Aphras that sets it apart from the other examples: the available evidence points to a civilization in its Bronze Age. Why would the Reapers attack a planet so far from even reaching outer space? It doesn't make sense for the Reapers to harvest them at that early stage.
It's a good question, and there's more than possible answer. The possibility that mostly sidesteps the question is that these Bronze Age relics were all that were left after the bombardment. Another possibility is that a more advanced species either camped out or hid on the planet, and the Reapers found out and paid them a visit. Of course, there's also the possibility that the Reapers didn't visit this planet at all and that the bombardment was committed by someone else. There's plenty of room to speculate!
@@BartlebysCorpse The "funniest" answer is that they were literally bombed back to the Stone I mean Bronze Age.
We see plenty of advanced stuff survive on other worlds, but you might be right about all that remains. We know more about the Old Kingdom of Egypt than the New, because papyrus decays but stone tablets do not.
EDIT: Oh wait! Maybe the inhabitants of Tosal Nym colonized Aphras even though the natives were only at the Bronze Age!
Can't say that I'm terribly up to date on ancient Egyptian archaeology, but that would make sense.
They say that the moon of Klendagon is the location for the dragon age games
Never heard that one.... Of course, there's some Dragon Age references sprinkled throughout the series, like the scientist on Eden Prime, and the statue in Kasumi's loyalty mission. Wasn't aware of the moon rumor, though.
Ex...excuse me?
I demand further elaboration.
@@DevilishmanThe play dragon age and look at the moon and the giant scar on it. Then play mass effect and look at the moon of Klendagon
@3:55 Xeno's/Zeno's paradox, in case you don't want to source Star Trek novels going forward lol.
Fair. Honestly, I read that book once a long time ago- I powered through it during a road trip when I was in high school, and that except is what stood out more than anything else.
@@BartlebysCorpse it's honestly way more important to know a concept than it is to have encyclopedic knowledge of who said what, where, and when. You clearly spent investigative energy and mental storage on the content you produced that I found engaging and enjoyable, perfection is unreasonable expectation. Figured since I had that data point stored in my brain I'd give it to you.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
My favorite planets in Mass Effect are Ploba and Preying Mouth, Ploba for the mysterious structure and Preying Mouth cause it looks cool
These videos are very well done good sir
3:30 where's this scene from? I've played the trilogy countless times but I don't remember this lol. It reminds me of the orb on Eletania in ME1
That is the end of the Firewalker DLC. It was packaged into new copies of ME2 when it first came out (at least, I think it was- this would have been back when game companies were doing that sort of thing as a way of sidestepping potential losses from sales of pre-owned games), then included in subsequent rereleases. It's probably easy to skip over, since it's not required, and I suspect part of the reason they made it was to experiment with vehicle sections.
@@BartlebysCorpseoh I see, thanks! I've played Firewalker only once because I think it's kinda boring but it seems I never even finished it lol. Will try it again in my next playthrough
Megamind? DC1938 is Superman .
"Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in between."
-Emperor Yoshiro
@@BartlebysCorpseThe entire post is entirely allegories to Superman. DC launched Superman with Action Comics #1 in June of 1938. Rua is a play on Krypton's sun, a red giant named Rao. The death of the planet being implosion, is the exact method of destruction that Krypton suffered. Msv Kent, is a reference to the adopted family of superman. Using crystalline matrices as computer interfaces..... None of that screams megamind to me, other than maybe the section about the infant or his power. Hell, they even tossed in having one of the gases the infant breathed be krypton, just for another reference.
@@hiddenkitty2911yeah it’s a Superman reference
Reaper? I hardly knew her
Always wondered what their plans were for the cut creators of the reapers, the emmshy(idk how to spell their name) seem really cool
32:00 this species species name is Sapien Americas, because big fucking gun 🫡🫡🫡🫡🫡🫡
I've just finished my 4th run of the whole series and here are some thoughts on the topic of how the reapers deal with evidence of their existence and previous civilizations.
I mostly agree with what you described, where my own interpretation varies is that I don't think they try to erase all evidence of previous civilizations. I believe they leave select evidence of the previous civilization they harvested but not any other before, just the previous one.
Why only leave one ? Leaving more would bring too many questions, an extinction is understandable, more than one raises too many questions. Think about Liara in ME1, she managed to piece together the fact that there was a cycle and immediately got suspicious of what was wiping out civilizations through the ages. If there had been more data to corroborate her gut feeling her theories would have been taken seriously and been a danger to reapers secrecy.
Who leave one at all ? Well to have a decoy in place to explain the relays and citadel and also give enough technical data to new civilizations to develop along the path desired by the reapers. If you let the new civilizations develop their own technologies they might take unexpected turns or learn too much and this could be problematic.
This leads me to some issues with the crucible and the catalyst.
We are told that the crucible is a weapon designed through the ages by the various civilizations but that none ever managed to finish in time.
First issue here, while you perfectly explained why and how some unwanted evidence to previous civilizations was left behind by the reapers, things they simply missed, something as huge as the crucible could not have been missed several times in a row.
It's too big for it to be easily missed and it makes statistically no sense for an item to be missed every single time. It's bound to be found and destroyed over the many harvests it took for it to reach us.
Another issue I have is that it uses the citadel as the catalyst.
Sure on paper it makes some sort of sense, you build a mega-structure that generates a huge power wave and send that wave through the relays to reach the whole galaxy. To do so you use the master relay the one that controls them all : the citadel.
Only it would be a miracle that they would be able to build something that can interface with the citadel and use it.
Before the reapers appear for the harvest the current civilizations have no idea they even exist or are coming to destroy them so no plans to build anything has been made.
As soon as the reapers arrive they size the citadel and block all the mass relays isolating all the systems communication capabilities. They can't communicate or coordinate anything so how could they plan such a huge undertaking and also they have lost access to the citadel so how could they build something that can interface with it when they can't analyse it and even less test it ?
Anyone who has ever created a program knows that it'll fail at first and need to be adjusted before it works, even more so if it interfaces with another already existing program that you didn't create yourself.
And even more how could they create a weapon that uses the mass relays when they don't even know how it works ?
We are told that the Protheans are the first to start grasping that knowledge, barely , before the reapers start to harvest them.
They barely managed to build a single relay that linked one way only to the citadel, the conduit, and they dis so after the reapers had left. And that team of scientists didn't know about the crucible or Vigil would have told us. In fact they made sure to hide themselves and Ilos from the reapers and the other protheans, they had no contact with the rest of the galaxy and wouldn't have known about the crucible.
We know that the citadel is made so that only the keepers know of the inner works of it so that the trap is not discovered. before the attack they don't know that it's a relay so they couldn't even have some blueprints somewhere that they would salvage during the attack and use later.
And what were their plans to bring the crucible to the citadel ?
They wouldn't have had access to the relays, they were closed by he reapers after sizing the citadel in the first hours of the harvest.
They would have had no way to bring together a fleet big enough to protect the device, also the citadel would be fully occupied by the reapers and they would have had no chance at all to get a team inside to open the arms like we did. We managed only because the reapers didn't occupy the citadel, not fully. And honestly even that was sketchy.
Sure there was the conduit but as I stated only the Protheans aver came close to understanding th mass relay technology, no conduit possible for the many civilizations that worked on the crucible before them, and in fact only the team on Ilos knew about that and they were isolated from the rest so the ones building the crucible didn't know about that.
So to me the only explanations that makes sense are :
- the crucible is another trap made by the reapers, they gave us the relays and the citadel and the FTL tech so that we wouldn't develop our own tech that they didn't control, they gave us the crucible so that we wouldn't look for another solution, something a divided galaxy couldn't build anyway and even if one cycle succeeded well the crucible doesn't what they want it to do and nothing else. But this theory has it's flaws, like why then leave the possibility of destroying the reapers or even control them? This would only work if the indoctrination theory was true and it would suppose that the destroy option is a decoy and doesn't work, just a test to see if the indoctrination worked. But that theory has been denied by the devs and the extended cut/legendary edition
-The crucible was developed by the leviathan at least the initial draft and given to the civilizations cycle after cycle during the harvest in the hopes one would be able to build it? They don't do it themselves to avoid detection, and that's also why they don't try and have it be built in between harvests, they know sovereign is watching. it's also how they have the intel on the citadel, they built the original AI they have it's code and can use controlled subjects to study the citadel I'm sure. They might even have coded a failsafe in the child brat that forces it to allow for the destruct option.
If someone has the patience to read the whole thing I would be curious about any feedback on this :p
There's a lot there, and I power read it, so I may be glossing over a thing here or there (also, it's a topic I expect to touch on sometime in the future), but the ability of civilizations to develop something like the Crucible and pass on details to future cycles depends on a number of things. Certain members would need enough time and breathing room to study the workings of Relays and Reapers- not impossible, but extremely difficult and subject to them becoming indoctrinated by Reaper artifacts and/or simply found and destroyed. They would need to be able to seed certain data around the galaxy for others to find- again, not impossible, but still subject to either being found or otherwise destroyed during a bombardment. The Leviathan don't express any super detailed insider knowledge of the Crucible, but it's always possible they'd omit some of what they know, or some future game might decide to establish that they were concealing their knowledge or involvement.
The most literal reading is that the design was iterated upon once a weakness was found. The first time, the weapon is able to target either an individual Reaper or a small area. That's obviously not enough on its own. The weapon and its wielders are then destroyed, but some record is still floating out there. Somewhere down the line millions of years later, another species manages a version that interfaces with a Mass Relay. That is more effective, but still not enough, and the weapon and its wielders are destroyed, but some record is still floating out there. Somewhere down the line millions of years later, a species figures out that this could theoretically interface with the Citadel. This never happens, but they work to seed the knowledge so that someone else would find it. Given all of the above, you could see why nobody succeeds in about a billion years.
My theory about why it uses the mass relays and the Citadel is kinda simple, actually.
You have a cyclic, massive invasion which deliberately and systematically destroys you and almost everything you've built. You can't win. You know this. But you want to give as much of a leg up as you can to the ones who are going to come after you. You can't leave materiel, since the Reapers will destroy it after you're dead.
But what's the one thing that you know, for a fact, that the Reapers aren't going to fuck with? That's going to still be there in thousands of years when the societies currently banging rocks together get to your level? The relays. The Citadel. Tech you know that they'll at least know a LITTLE about. For all the talk about not knowing anything about the citadel tech and the relays, those ships still have to TALK to the dang things. Know enough to build out entire cities on the Citadel's frameworks.
So instead of trying to design a weapon from scratch and hope that your future cycle compatriots can figure it out, you build a payload to the delivery system that's already waiting for you. the intent, I think, was to have the crucible built ahead of time, and waiting for when the reapers come through. Y'know, like could have happened if the council had immediately acted and the galaxy had just a few decades more of a head start.
@@stargate525 Billion of people on earth know how to use a computer but know nothing about how they work, even devs and other tech people wouldn't know to interface with a computer without using code already made and built in an operating system. If tomorrow a virus fried all operating systems and the devs were prevented from analyzing the computer parts to build a new operating system they would be screwed.
Ingame the Asari who were there first and every other race who is on the citadel use it perfectly well knowing nothing about it's inner working, it's why the keepers are there.
We know that the Protheans didn't know a thing about it either.
Also your theory doesn't solve the issue of how did countless cycles manage to pass along the plans to the next cycle.
First they couldn't use the relays so they were stuck in whatever solar system they were in. They could only hide the plans in that system, no guarantee that in the next cycle one of the galactic races would colonise or be born in that specific solar system. And that the luck would hod for hundreds of cycles.
Second hide it well enough that the reapers won't find it when they fine tooth comb the whole galaxy to erase any trace of themselves or any tech and how do you expect anyone to be able to find it ? Or hide it somewhere you're sure another cycle will find it if they happen to explore there and you're also sure the reapers will find it.
Also the crucible was designed to send energy through the galaxy meaning it's designed to destroy reapers that are already in it. If you wanted to give the next cycle a chance you would design a weapon that can also send energy towards dark space to destroy the reapers before they invade.
To me the crucible wasn't made by any of the previous cycles.
The crucible was allowed to be developed and built. The catalyst wanted to test it or ''alter the variables''.
1. No reaper forces found and attacked the crucible during its contruction. Its location can hardly be called a secret, we send crew, resources and material to it during the entire me3 game. Surely they could track that.
2. No reapers attack the crucible during the cutscenes (low EMS), only escort ships are attacked, the crucible is left alone. The ''severe damage'' the catalyst talks about, could simply come from bad construction, collisions etc.
3. The crucible turns off immediately after you refuse to chose one of the 3, making it obvious that the catalyst has been in control of it all the way.
@@TheWireLayer I agree that the catalyst let it happen, but I don't see what purpose it would have for it ? Testing what ? Whipping out it's own creation, the reapers or leaving them to disembodied Shep to control just to test some parameters ?
To me it looks more like my 2nd theory, it's leviathan's weapon and the catalyst has a block preventing him from destroying it.
Or something else I've been mulling over :
The catalyst itself said : "The created always rebel against their creator". Well it created the reapers... might be they took over and shackled the catalyst so it's using the crucible and any influence it still has over the reapers to reset the situation.
Would explain why it didn't prevent the protheans from Ilos to modify the signal to the keepers and why it didn't open the relay in ME1 when the keepers failed to do it.
I wonder how many times a civilization has appeared on the same planet
Definitely possible. Part of the Drake equation involves the planet being at such a moderate distance from the local star to maintain a general temperature suitable for life, so even after life's wiped out on a world, it's more likely to reappear there than the average planet.
This is a very interesting question. Just look at Earth. You're gonna tell me that in the billions of years of life on this blue rock alone, humans are the ONLY species that EVER developed enough to grow a civilization?
Yes @devilishman the, there is absolutely zero evidence of any advanced society before homo species started advancing. If we truly had precursors they would've be in the fossil record. Though if you want to say that in the distant future another none human species will develope advanced societies then yes I agree.
14:00
Along the shore the cloud waves break,
The twin suns sink 'neath the lake,
The shadows lengthen
In Carcosa.
Strange is the night where black stars rise,
And strange moons circle through the skies
But stranger still is
Lost Carcosa.
Songs that the Hyades shall sing,
Where flap the tatters of the King,
Must die unheard in
Dim Carcosa.
Song of my soul, my voice is dead;
Die thou, unsung, as tears unshed
Shall dry and die in
Lost Carcosa.
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maybe you talked about them in a different video. but shouldnt the rachni and the thorian be in it? javik talks about the rachni when you bring him to the "missing scouts" mission in me 3.
While both would make sense within this miniseries, I decided to stick to dead, pre-Prothean civilizations. I do discuss the Thorian in my video on Prothean Planets. I'll touch on the Rachni sooner rather than later as well...
I SWAER I CAN HEAR YOUR CAT MEOWING
That would be Mario. He tends to do that if I'm recording or on a call. Something about speaking into a device causes his brain cell to decide it's time for him to get vocal too.
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Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it 😁
The King In Yellow mentioned, Constantin Valdor confirmed.
So its not exactly headcanon so much as a rationalization, but i think only sovereign was meant to be a cuddlefish and each reaper was meant to be a unique shape like the human reaper we see in 2. This concept must have been scrapped when 3 was on the drawing board to reduce time and cost of making new models for every reaper appearance instead resorting to efdectively copy paste. Make you wonder what 3 could have been if given another year to cook.
Well this is already a proven fact the data pad joker hands shephard at the end of me2 has reapers of very different designs but it's unreasonable to expect them to have been able to make that many different designs. I'm pretty fond of the core of the reaper looking like the species theory
I wonder how many times races were tipped off to the reapers and took it seriously
They never get the chance, that is what the Vanguard Reaper is left behind for.
Am I the only one who hears the cat in the background lol
I was wondering when someone would notice that... Yeah, whenever either me or my wife are on a call (or as I've found, when I do any sort of voice recording), this goon starts feeling left out and wants to be involved.
That, and he usually wants more food...because even though we've been feeding him at the same times every day for however many number of years, he's convinced that today is the day we'll starve him.
When you think about it, you would have to be unlucky to be born/alive during the harvest. Unless your asari, then 50/1 chance 😅
See, you might *think* you're lucky because you're living at the absolute peak of civilization.
Your saying that a boy being found as the lone survivor of his planet by a ship called the Kent is a reference to mega mind and not Superman who was was the sole survivor of his planet and take in by the Kent family 😑. Are you high?
On life, perhaps.
If I remember with me2 or 3 lore a single reaper is created apon a civilization collapse so if that is accurate the amount of reapers is the amount of civilizations wasted by them
Not necessarily sovereign class reapers are comprised of the main species of a cycle ie the prothean and then would've been the council races, destroyers are comprised of secondary races such krogan or quarian but some races that aren't large enough such as drell would've just been destroyed without a reaper being made.😊
Megamind????? Wouldn't it rather be a reference to Superman? IE Kent Krypton etc...
"Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in between"
-Emperor Yoshiro
Don't touch the poop.
yeah mass effect fans having zero respect for burials and not understanding why the council wants to respect other cultures' burials tracks
Фухх уснул😊
When people go "hUrDuR X Y Z cOuLd EaSiLy DeFeAt ThE rEaPeRS" just shake my head. I mean, yeah, d u h, did it take all of your IQ to rationalize that something out of universe applying to higher power rules could defeat a being restricted to a smaller powerscsle of universe? Do you want some uh, hesitant applause? Just smooth brain comments. You can do the same thing to any fictional universe bad guy, and even more easily, like just take any bad guy or force in a fictional verse and then argue a higher deific power being introduced to said setting would fix the issue. And bam. That sounds dumb, because thats what all of those comments are saying more or less x,D
George Carlin = Immediate Lke and Sub