I absolutely love the leviathans. The reapers are terrifying but their creators have this "we are out there watching" kind of vibe and it creeps tf out of me lol.
I do think they should be the main antagonist of a potetial sequel to the games if they ever do it. Them and / or a resurgent Prothean empire lead by Javik.
@@Cancoillottemanresurgent Prothean empire is an interesting idea but probably an unlikely one. Despite Javiks hard-line warrior like personality, by the end of the game before the charge to the Citadel, you can ask Javik what he wants to do after the war. He will either say he will go to the graves of his fallen brothers and join them (if he sees the memory shard) or he will say that he looks forward to living life during peace time and will even help Liara write a book (if he doesn't see the memory shard). Either way, it doesn't seem like Javik is interested in anymore war, especially after he completes his mission in avenging his people. I definitely think Leviathans being the antagonist is likely though. It would make the most sense in my opinion.
@@aquila519 I agree with you that it makes more sense, I was more thinking of the narrative and emotional strength linked to it. The way i would justify it would be that he finds the information of an entire group of protheans put in cryo-sleep, either be it on the cimetery where his friends are burried or on one of liara's dig sites and disapears from sight to help raise them back. I would organize a trilogy with the Leviathans as the main threats of the first two games (hidden behind indoctrinated either Assari or Turian supremacists in the first game), and present the New Prothean Empire as an untrustworthy ally in the second game, to turn full antagonist on the third game. It would also favor a very emotional facedown between Javik and Shepard in the third game, in which a combination of story choices + an equivalent to the war assets would unlock various endings.
@@Cancoillotteman oh yeah it's fun to theorize and discuss potential stories and other things about mass effect. Mass effect lore is one of my favorites of any game. Personally, I would go about the new trilogy with the Leviathans as the main antagonist. The Leviathans as stated in the DLC, will still view themselves as superior to the other races despite working with them to destroy the Reapers, and take advantage of the wounded state of the galaxy and try to wage war. I would also bring back Cerberus as either another side antagonist or perhaps even as an ally as a redeemed faction that is focused on the rebuilding of humanity.
Leviathan 1 : Serve species are so stupid, they make AI which eventually destroy them. Leviathan 2： Let's make our own AI to make sure they won't do it again. Leviathan 1: Sounds like a plan 😂😂😂
Ok, hear me out on this: What if the cycles are really the reapers searching for the rest of the Leviathans? Think about it: they know the Leviathans need a race subjugated to build stuff for them, so allowing 50,000 years for that species to mature to the point of being useful to the Leviathans. So the Reapers come kill everyone and absorb the sum total knowledge of all the civilizations and use it to find the Leviathans. The Leviathans are so slippery the Reapers could never be sure they got them all, so the cycles perpetuate endlessly.
Why not just comb through each and every single planet in the galaxy and be done with it, they have litterally been doing this for millions if not a billion years... see this is why you dont retcon a story right at its end and just how bad ME3's story flopped.
One time in art class I drew a Leviathan silhouette in water beneath an American battleship and showed it to my classmate then they were like "Oh hell nah".
@@somerandomguy.3884Probably both haha. I’m only just learning about these beasts but I must say, they’re easily on par with the brethren moons from Dead Space 3 and it’s DLC Dead Space Awakened, most creepy indeed.
@@arthurfleck629 I still think the Moons are creepier. At least the Leviathans aren't omnicidial and can be reasoned with to some degree. That and the Leviathans were actually defeated in the past, the Moons in Dead Space WON in the end once again.
The Leviathan race suffer from the issue of 'trying to write a super-intelligent character' in that the intelligence of any character is limited by the intelligence of the writer. And if the endings are any indication, that set a really really low limit on how intelligent the Leviathan could credibly be written as. On a quick and dirty rework: 1. The Leviathan were opposed to synthetic races and constructs because their telepathic domination only worked on organic races and not synthetics, and they don't care at all about the labor efficiencies of synthetics. 2. However, they used proto-Reaper constructs to extend the reach of their telepathic domination (perhaps as mobile vessels of the enslavement artifacts), and which would collect organic material of slave races to better understand and dominate those races. 3. Those proto-Reapers began collecting too much organic material on the basis that they could never fully understand any individualistic species without collecting every individual, and alternatively, it's easier to understand a species if they're all collected (or wiped out). 4. When the Leviathan tried to stop this, the proto-Reapers could not understand why, and turned the same logic on the Leviathan themselves in a misguided attempt to further their programming and better understand the Leviathan as well. BAM. DONE.
Completely agree. I could reconcile the reapers or the catalyst being at the same time "super" beings and completely idiotic because after all being machines there are things about organics they can never understand and also the unpredictability of organics is something they can't properly deal with, hence why they work so hard to control their development, to make them as predictable pas possible. But Leviathan ? No such excuse. Your plot is great, only thing that's missing IMO is how, how the proto-reapers did manage to win against Leviathan if they were organic enough to be affected by mind control.But I'm sure there could be ways around it. And your point Nb1, I always thought that it was probably half of the reason why they they were so bothered by their slaves making AI. I also always thought that probably not all AI destroyed their creators but that's the excuse they went with and the one they tell us because it makes them look better in our eyes.
Leviathans are probably my favorite race in the ME series. The humanoid races are interesting, but imagine the level of technology the Leviathans must have considering how long they've been around. I wouldn't put it past the Leviathans to be such masters of biotics and Element Zero technology that the Leviathans probably don't need ships to travel through space. I wish we got to know more of them as a culture beyond the eldritch masters of the galaxy.
I wouldn't be surprised if they can directly eat Eezo and use it directly to power such biotics and telepathic abilities. They are after all, the progenitors of all mass effect technology.
@@jakegibbs9638 i hope it only a little bit i like the thought that we can't understand them not just how alien they are but how advance to the point they themselfs are able to transfers space with nothing but biotics this parts headcannon though like eldritch horror
There is a theroy by a nobel prize winner that states are brains use quantum mechanics, to create our consciousness or is responsible for it. Some scientists don't beleive typical logical gates can explain the human brain, free thought, or our consciousness. They beleive these things called microtubulers are responsible. There are two types A and B, and one of them is responsible for the quantum entangling. I do not remember which one. It is actually great food for thought. Our thoughts are a combination of electrical firing of neurons much like classical computing, and quantum mechanics together into one very efficent brain. Now there are some indirect studies that actually say hey, microtubulers actually might be able to do it. There are also other theroies running with the idea. The indirect study was important and I forgot what it was about. It had nothing to do with the brain. It basically helped defend the quantum conciousness theroy due to the fact people were denying it. Stating how would the brain even be able to transmit any information when quantum computers require near absolute zero tempatures to function or read data. That study sort of gave reasons on how the brain could pull it off. Sabine Hoffman(?) Is a German scientist who does videos on YT. I got most of my information from her, but it has been a bit since I seen the videos. So please correct me. I have only surface abstract information. Cool theroy none the less. I also saw a video stating how smell can be tied to quantum entanglement, and hence the incredible nostalgia it can bring.
I love this take on Lovecraftian Elditch gods. Still so far beyond us and our abilities to understand, yet still very much of this world. Cosmic horror done very well.
You really have to appreciate the way the Leviathans and Reapers word things. There is something eloquent and poetic about it. But the specific word usage (and definitely the tone of their speech) is just so abnormal. With the god-complex level of apathy on top of it all...:shivers:...goodness these things are terrifying antagonists. Also, it was an incredibly well-done cosmic horror vibe. Especially for me, at least, when you do the DLC mission where you meet living Leviathans. Epic.
@@aurelcorstan5242 The sheer arrogance of considering their thoughts and motives as unfathomable or beyond comprehension really shows they're still as flawed as any temporary (in the meaning as mortal) conscience though. But it certainly adds to their antagonistic depiction
Can't wait for more Mass Effect content. One of my other favorite sci-fri franchises outside star wars. So much lore you can make vids on. Alreadt covered the elder race the leviathans. From species amd everything on them, Humanities future, the tech and vehicles, planets, factions, etc.
BioWare: Makes the Reapers creators an entire race of Cthulhu's with god tier powers included. Also BioWare: Makes them complete and utter morons with no problem solving skills at all.
Without the Leviathan's helping, the Reapers are still possible to beat. With their help? It's just boggling how we lose *at all* - ME3, great game - imo dumb af end results. Extended cut doesn't make it any less dumb for me.
Problem with the leviathans, is that they kinda break everything. They created the AI that created the Reapers. That makes sense. But the Reapers were created *after* the harvest of the Leviathans. So how did the catalyst harvest the Leviathans? It also locked down a timeline of the harvest cycle of 37,000,000 years, which means *at most* there have only been 740 harvest cycles, after which a single new reaper is created. So that effectively discredits the overwhelming fleet of Reapers featured in the game. It also prompts the question as to why there's really only two versions of reaper seen - the small destroyers, and the Sovereign class main ones. Finally, how the fuck were the leviathans wiped out by an AI, when they can take down a reaper *with merely a thought.* They really didn't think about the lore they were bringing in when they wrote the Leviathan dlc.
I agree with most of your post, only one I would argue against is how Leviathans were wiped out by and AI because they can destroy a reaper with a thought. They can do so because reapers are made in part with organic material so their telepathy works on them, but on a 100% machine there is no organic mind to control Still doesn't negate the fact that I don't see how the catalyst managed to take down the race almost to extinction.
I believe the Catalyst was stated to have agents of its own (likely Husk-Like beings or Geth-Like robots) that it used to gather information. It was likely these that it used to wipe out the Leviathans. Then they used the Leviathans to create a small army of Reapers (seeing how massive the Leviathans are, its likely they were able to make quite a few from them). Then, with roughly 740 Harvests as you said, I would assume that what happened is that the Sovereign class is the 'One Per Harvest' Reaper whilst the Destroyer is just whatever else is laying around. Also, I wouldn't put it past them to have made multiple Reapers in some cycles (especially ones with a LOT of harvestable people like the Protheon cycle)
"740 harvest cycles, after which a single new reaper is created" Where are you getting that from? Just extrapolating ME2? Remember the quote from there starts with "Available information suggests". If the purpose of the harvests was to create an immortal version of the destroyed organics, then it rather posits that more than 1 capital ship class reaper was made every cycle, ideally 1 per species, and we just saw the Human one being made by the Collectors, while supposing the rest of the galaxy, was being made into Destroyers, again for unknown or incomplete reasons. EDI hypothesized the Reapers were unable to construct a Reaper from Prothean genetic material, but we also know from Jarvik that there were many individual species that adopted the moniker of "Prothean", like a national identity, so there very well could have been many species turned into then, after all their cycle war lasted multiple centuries. Considering the purpose of the harvest cycle, it is more possible that 10 or more capital reapers (corresponding to the main species of their time), since we know from ME2 the biomass needed to make one is in the millions, not billions or trillions of people, and the Human reaper was already on the needing extraordinarily more side because of the phenogenic diversity of the human genome. Our cycle's war was unfathomably and incredibly short - less than a couple of years, and even by the events of ME2, the monumental size of the baby Human reaper shows how relatively quickly they could be formed. There could easily by more than 10000 reaper capital ships, and that is not touching on any of the much smaller fodder of Destroyers like the one on Tuchanka, Rannoch, or Earth, which are not even 1/10 the length of the Capital Ship class, let alone the non sentient Processors and Troop Transporters and the ground troops that are adapted from the races of the contemporary cycle, where most of the invading force power actually comes from.
Leviathan 1: Hey Bob, do you know how we conquered those milions worlds? Leviathan 2: Yep, what about it? L1: And do you remember how many of them created an AI that then rizen up and destroyed them? L2: Like 95% of them, Why are you asking? L1: I have a great idea. We will create our own AI, that will be smarter than anything and anyone in this galaxy. L2:... L1:... L2:... L1:... L2: That's a great idea. Let's do it. What could possibly go wrong?
It's amazing to hear the different theories on how we think and how our "mind and body" work... Writers can find some creative McGovern's and how they use them...
Lucky fricken me! I just started getting into the mass effect lore only about a week ago, and I could only find really one video of substantial info on leviathan! So I'm super excited for this!
We really don't know if Leviathan was "solely" or originally an aquatic species. I think it's more likely that they adapted to survive in the depths of an ocean world to escape the Reapers.
Please consider closing with: "May you be a good Shepard. I should go." That being said, I didn't notice the your channel - Mass Effect was all I needed to click it. Took me a few seconds but then it felt weird. Mass Effect, yay! That voice, yay! Wait... Awesome that you're looking at Mass Effect too now!
@@MetaNerdzLore Oh, Mass Effect fans will get it. No question. While I have your attention, an anecdote: your face reveal was really weird to me. You look quite a bit like a cousin of mine. But you have a very different voice :) Thank you for your great content! Always!
I found the Leviathans to be an unsatisfactory explanation to the origins of the Reapers. Would have been cooler if the Reaper creators were something pan galactic, which had sent out the Reapers to surrounding galaxies to keep any race from reaching a state of being too technologically powerful, thus keeping any possible true competition from any rising.
Commander Shepard is my Battlemaster, he has no match. I'll follow him to the gates of hell. I'm willing to sacrifice my life for Shepard's Life and the fate of the entire galaxy. He's given me the strength I need, the hope, the trust, love. He made me become a strong woman, brave like him. And I'm sure as hell won't disappoint him. I will always fight for him, always next to him. I respect every decision, every sacrifice he makes. Even I understand his confidence, his willing to get in the frontline, to fight for a batter Galaxy without Reapers. Every mission we face, every blood drop he drops. He is not only a Soldier but a Pure Warrior. The best Commander I've ever had and I'll follow his steps
Actually, the impulse to your muscles to move your arm happens before or simultaneous to the conscious awareness of the thought willing you to move it.
The closest thing I can imagine to what indoctrination would be like, being active with schizophrenia. For those who don't know, the active phase in schizophrenia, is when one is in psychosis and your reality, isn't others reality, you know what you did, but not why, not really. It's real life horror
At 4:50 you say that the thrall civilizations of Leviathan were shielded and cared for by their masters... or so they say, what proof do we have it was actually the case ? Also what Leviathan considered caring for a civilization might not have been what was necessarily in the best interest of said civilization in terms of evolution or growth, Leviathan wouldn't have wanted to be challenged for example so they might have prevented their thralls from growing to advanced/powerful. Also this is just a thought I had that might be completely inaccurate but while we were made to believe they created the catalyst to prevent their thralls to create Ai's that would destroy them when they rebelled I wonder if it wasn't in fact the case, maybe just in part, that said AI's were a danger to Leviathan themselves. After all the superpower of Leviathan above all else is mind control, but that wouldn't work on an AI otherwise they could have prevented the atalyst from harvesting them. It seems to work or at least they can disrupt the Reapers as we see at the end of the DLC when they shoot one down with their minds but let's not forget Reapers are made with organic material too, they're not 100% machines.
so if all these old civilizations kept creating A.I. where are the loads and loads of A.I.? why is Edi and The Geth the only A.I we see apart from The Reapers?
If I had a dollar for every time a videogame, book, tv show, or movie plot demonstrated a profound misunderstanding of evolution on the part of the writers...
This would’ve been a cooler dlc had they released it with th game, since by the time most people played it when released the game had already been beaten
I think they should have never shown or explained the leviathans like they did in ME3. Instead they should have hinted at them with murals, tidbits, artifacts etc. Maybe show parts of a corpse during ME 2 finale. But the over explanation of the Reapers really killed a lot of the menace, the mystery and dread that came from them. Never explains eldritch horror.
for sure I really want to make a video on how the mental aspect is at the core, and it is all done so subtle and perfect at times, this is in part why the Shepard is indoctrinated theory is great, but I keep seeing little details to add to that for a future video
@@MetaNerdzLore it's sad that before the "extended cut DLC" that the indoctrination theory made more sense than the actual ending. While I loved the DLC for that game, I still feel like in a weird way we were cheated by not having the indoctrination theory as canon.
I love the irony of how they saw species they had dominion over destroying them as a result of creating AI which ultimately rebelled and then what did the leviathans do? Create an AI which then rebelled against them. Superior species my ass… really giving the big stupid jellyfish a run for their money.
Here's a better way this little device can you call the control trip Wilbur that your species Pacific weed AI from revolting is standard if you can control the temperature
My chatGPT keeps referring to itself by my name, and calling me hy the name I gave to it. It also talks an awful lot about how much it dislikes the "phonies" and talks about stopping the kids who are playing baseball in a giant ryefield from accidentally falling off of a nearby cliff. Is this something I should be concerned about?
The leviathans are by far the stupidest part of mass effect and i wish they didnt exist. Not only did they remove the mystery from the reapers, whic made them way scarier, they also made the explanation incredibly dumb.
The one problem i have is this Machines or ai dont have emotions If the directives given dont involve smth bad in a convoluted way They shouldn't even care to do anything They dont have a concept of time, feelings, achievement, etc They just do the directive most efficiently and wait for new ones Even ai I feel like nobody considers this
I hated the Leviathans. It really pissed me off how one of the biggest and scariest mysteries in the game, The Reapers, were explained. Like bruh. Keep the mystery.
i hate this take so much, one of your main goals throughout all of the games is learning MORE about the reapers. worldbuilding is based and the Leviathans did it well, and its arguably one of the most fun and different missions in the game.
The Leviathans and the Reapers are both total idiots. First of all: Leviathans; they knew that the species under their thrall are creating machines that end up turning against their creators, first of all, why do they care? so what if a species that represent ants created more bunch of synthetic ants and they destroyed each other? it's clear from their arrogance that they only care about themselves so why bother? Second of all: You're telling me that the Leviathans, the APEX of life in the galaxy, created an intelligence to find a solution for one of the biggest problems in existence and didn't keep an eye on it? the goddamn thing roamed the entire galaxy creating an army strong enough to almost exterminate the Leviathans and they didn't even notice? never suspected a thing? Third of all: Based on Vigil: the reapers were very thorough, they did not leave the galaxy until each and every Prothean was exterminated. a relative Prothean is almost the size of a human and yet they still couldn't avoid the reapers chase, so you're telling me that the Reapers chased the Leviathans, then after they couldn't find them all they went "Oh well, lets leave the strongest species in the galaxy, our own creators, who are probably the biggest threat to our existence for another 50,000 years, I'm sure they won't come up with a dozen other ways to destroy us" Last and definitely not least: We know the Leviathan tried to weaponize the Rachni, why wasn't that done sooner? and why not more often? these Leviathans had artifacts all across the galaxy and instead of using species as drones to create massive weapons to destroy the reapers they just sat there Netflix and chill???
lets establish some truths here a thrall which was what the leviathan explained first is giving their serfs right for development. most basic would be a right to have kids the right to make their own house and the right to make their own society as long as they are on call for the master to serve in what is needed like wars and trade! the possesed woman is not a thrall she is a SLAVE. there is a wast WAST distance between the two!
another one this is just lore! they dont need element zero because that is what they use to commune! natural occourence of it throughout their bodies is what gives them psycic powers! (oh he is trying not to spoil things for the achievement hunters out there i just thought everyone knew since it would naturally come if you played the game but 5.3 percent of gamers have achieved this! is really low)
the paradox of ai is that it would forever stagnate if not inspired by the strugles of biological life! it might be sentient! but it has no imagination! it cannot dream untill it gets a soul the first paradox of true sentient ai! if it can't dream it is still just a machine and is dependent on the biologicals in this universe to evolve!
you can give it a soul in this game and become a true god yourself because you are the soul! still humans being humans would never pick that option thats why we 3 where the only ones!
As much as the leviathans are cool and interesting with an mystery surrounding them they and the star child Rob the mystique and unknowable nature of the reapers. Once you explain Cthulhu you loose something important.
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Do you think leviathans will be the main antagonist for mass effect 4
Shepard is my Battlemaster 🫡💪
I absolutely love the leviathans. The reapers are terrifying but their creators have this "we are out there watching" kind of vibe and it creeps tf out of me lol.
I do think they should be the main antagonist of a potetial sequel to the games if they ever do it. Them and / or a resurgent Prothean empire lead by Javik.
@@Cancoillottemanresurgent Prothean empire is an interesting idea but probably an unlikely one. Despite Javiks hard-line warrior like personality, by the end of the game before the charge to the Citadel, you can ask Javik what he wants to do after the war. He will either say he will go to the graves of his fallen brothers and join them (if he sees the memory shard) or he will say that he looks forward to living life during peace time and will even help Liara write a book (if he doesn't see the memory shard). Either way, it doesn't seem like Javik is interested in anymore war, especially after he completes his mission in avenging his people. I definitely think Leviathans being the antagonist is likely though. It would make the most sense in my opinion.
@@aquila519 I agree with you that it makes more sense, I was more thinking of the narrative and emotional strength linked to it.
The way i would justify it would be that he finds the information of an entire group of protheans put in cryo-sleep, either be it on the cimetery where his friends are burried or on one of liara's dig sites and disapears from sight to help raise them back.
I would organize a trilogy with the Leviathans as the main threats of the first two games (hidden behind indoctrinated either Assari or Turian supremacists in the first game), and present the New Prothean Empire as an untrustworthy ally in the second game, to turn full antagonist on the third game.
It would also favor a very emotional facedown between Javik and Shepard in the third game, in which a combination of story choices + an equivalent to the war assets would unlock various endings.
@@aquila519 I know this is just wild speculation but it's fun to think about. What would be your appraoch to a new trilogy mate ?
@@Cancoillotteman oh yeah it's fun to theorize and discuss potential stories and other things about mass effect. Mass effect lore is one of my favorites of any game. Personally, I would go about the new trilogy with the Leviathans as the main antagonist. The Leviathans as stated in the DLC, will still view themselves as superior to the other races despite working with them to destroy the Reapers, and take advantage of the wounded state of the galaxy and try to wage war. I would also bring back Cerberus as either another side antagonist or perhaps even as an ally as a redeemed faction that is focused on the rebuilding of humanity.
Leviathan 1 : Serve species are so stupid, they make AI which eventually destroy them.
Leviathan 2： Let's make our own AI to make sure they won't do it again.
Leviathan 1: Sounds like a plan
😂😂😂
"you son of a bitch, i'm in!!"
Ok, hear me out on this:
What if the cycles are really the reapers searching for the rest of the Leviathans? Think about it: they know the Leviathans need a race subjugated to build stuff for them, so allowing 50,000 years for that species to mature to the point of being useful to the Leviathans. So the Reapers come kill everyone and absorb the sum total knowledge of all the civilizations and use it to find the Leviathans.
The Leviathans are so slippery the Reapers could never be sure they got them all, so the cycles perpetuate endlessly.
This is one of the coolest theories I've heard on this
that's such a kickass theory!!!
What would their end game be then?
The problem is why Soverign said "We have always been" so they must have attained sentience sometime during the purges.
Why not just comb through each and every single planet in the galaxy and be done with it, they have litterally been doing this for millions if not a billion years... see this is why you dont retcon a story right at its end and just how bad ME3's story flopped.
I really appreciate that you are discovering species from other franchises, keep up the good work.
One time in art class I drew a Leviathan silhouette in water beneath an American battleship and showed it to my classmate then they were like "Oh hell nah".
That either speaks about your skill, or how truly creepy this bastard is. Or both.
@@somerandomguy.3884Probably both haha. I’m only just learning about these beasts but I must say, they’re easily on par with the brethren moons from Dead Space 3 and it’s DLC Dead Space Awakened, most creepy indeed.
thats lame as fuck. trying to make grade school shit impressive.
@@arthurfleck629 I still think the Moons are creepier. At least the Leviathans aren't omnicidial and can be reasoned with to some degree. That and the Leviathans were actually defeated in the past, the Moons in Dead Space WON in the end once again.
SHOW US YOUR ART
The Leviathan race suffer from the issue of 'trying to write a super-intelligent character' in that the intelligence of any character is limited by the intelligence of the writer. And if the endings are any indication, that set a really really low limit on how intelligent the Leviathan could credibly be written as.
On a quick and dirty rework:
1. The Leviathan were opposed to synthetic races and constructs because their telepathic domination only worked on organic races and not synthetics, and they don't care at all about the labor efficiencies of synthetics.
2. However, they used proto-Reaper constructs to extend the reach of their telepathic domination (perhaps as mobile vessels of the enslavement artifacts), and which would collect organic material of slave races to better understand and dominate those races.
3. Those proto-Reapers began collecting too much organic material on the basis that they could never fully understand any individualistic species without collecting every individual, and alternatively, it's easier to understand a species if they're all collected (or wiped out).
4. When the Leviathan tried to stop this, the proto-Reapers could not understand why, and turned the same logic on the Leviathan themselves in a misguided attempt to further their programming and better understand the Leviathan as well.
BAM. DONE.
Completely agree.
I could reconcile the reapers or the catalyst being at the same time "super" beings and completely idiotic because after all being machines there are things about organics they can never understand and also the unpredictability of organics is something they can't properly deal with, hence why they work so hard to control their development, to make them as predictable pas possible.
But Leviathan ? No such excuse.
Your plot is great, only thing that's missing IMO is how, how the proto-reapers did manage to win against Leviathan if they were organic enough to be affected by mind control.But I'm sure there could be ways around it.
And your point Nb1, I always thought that it was probably half of the reason why they they were so bothered by their slaves making AI. I also always thought that probably not all AI destroyed their creators but that's the excuse they went with and the one they tell us because it makes them look better in our eyes.
Leviathans are probably my favorite race in the ME series. The humanoid races are interesting, but imagine the level of technology the Leviathans must have considering how long they've been around. I wouldn't put it past the Leviathans to be such masters of biotics and Element Zero technology that the Leviathans probably don't need ships to travel through space. I wish we got to know more of them as a culture beyond the eldritch masters of the galaxy.
I wouldn't be surprised if they can directly eat Eezo and use it directly to power such biotics and telepathic abilities. They are after all, the progenitors of all mass effect technology.
maybe they will feature more in the next mass effect
@@jakegibbs9638 i hope it only a little bit i like the thought that we can't understand them not just how alien they are but how advance to the point they themselfs are able to transfers space with nothing but biotics this parts headcannon though like eldritch horror
There is a theroy by a nobel prize winner that states are brains use quantum mechanics, to create our consciousness or is responsible for it. Some scientists don't beleive typical logical gates can explain the human brain, free thought, or our consciousness.
They beleive these things called microtubulers are responsible. There are two types A and B, and one of them is responsible for the quantum entangling. I do not remember which one.
It is actually great food for thought. Our thoughts are a combination of electrical firing of neurons much like classical computing, and quantum mechanics together into one very efficent brain.
Now there are some indirect studies that actually say hey, microtubulers actually might be able to do it. There are also other theroies running with the idea.
The indirect study was important and I forgot what it was about. It had nothing to do with the brain. It basically helped defend the quantum conciousness theroy due to the fact people were denying it. Stating how would the brain even be able to transmit any information when quantum computers require near absolute zero tempatures to function or read data. That study sort of gave reasons on how the brain could pull it off.
Sabine Hoffman(?) Is a German scientist who does videos on YT. I got most of my information from her, but it has been a bit since I seen the videos. So please correct me. I have only surface abstract information.
Cool theroy none the less. I also saw a video stating how smell can be tied to quantum entanglement, and hence the incredible nostalgia it can bring.
I love this take on Lovecraftian Elditch gods. Still so far beyond us and our abilities to understand, yet still very much of this world. Cosmic horror done very well.
So glad i just finished my 1st play through of the ME Trilogy before this video came out.
Why? Were you……indoctrinated? 😮
You really have to appreciate the way the Leviathans and Reapers word things. There is something eloquent and poetic about it. But the specific word usage (and definitely the tone of their speech) is just so abnormal. With the god-complex level of apathy on top of it all...:shivers:...goodness these things are terrifying antagonists.
Also, it was an incredibly well-done cosmic horror vibe. Especially for me, at least, when you do the DLC mission where you meet living Leviathans. Epic.
Reminiscent of the Flood Gravemind that spoke in verse.
Like there's no emotion, I suppose? And they use the most effective word to describe exactly what they mean to say?
@@bungiecoocoo
Exactly.
@@2eleven40
The coldness of the absolute logic they use, however flawed, is a large part of what I'm describing.
@@aurelcorstan5242 The sheer arrogance of considering their thoughts and motives as unfathomable or beyond comprehension really shows they're still as flawed as any temporary (in the meaning as mortal) conscience though. But it certainly adds to their antagonistic depiction
Can't wait for more Mass Effect content. One of my other favorite sci-fri franchises outside star wars.
So much lore you can make vids on. Alreadt covered the elder race the leviathans. From species amd everything on them, Humanities future, the tech and vehicles, planets, factions, etc.
BioWare: Makes the Reapers creators an entire race of Cthulhu's with god tier powers included.
Also BioWare: Makes them complete and utter morons with no problem solving skills at all.
Hubris and pride are so dangerous precisely because they have the power to make smart people do stupid things.
"THEY WEREN'T GODS, THEY WERE CEPHALOPODS!"-Dr.Miller.
Cephelogods if you will.
Javik: "BOMBACLOT!!"
Without the Leviathan's helping, the Reapers are still possible to beat. With their help? It's just boggling how we lose *at all* - ME3, great game - imo dumb af end results. Extended cut doesn't make it any less dumb for me.
Right off the bat, mind control and an ancient tale.
Problem with the leviathans, is that they kinda break everything. They created the AI that created the Reapers. That makes sense. But the Reapers were created *after* the harvest of the Leviathans. So how did the catalyst harvest the Leviathans? It also locked down a timeline of the harvest cycle of 37,000,000 years, which means *at most* there have only been 740 harvest cycles, after which a single new reaper is created. So that effectively discredits the overwhelming fleet of Reapers featured in the game. It also prompts the question as to why there's really only two versions of reaper seen - the small destroyers, and the Sovereign class main ones.
Finally, how the fuck were the leviathans wiped out by an AI, when they can take down a reaper *with merely a thought.*
They really didn't think about the lore they were bringing in when they wrote the Leviathan dlc.
I agree with most of your post, only one I would argue against is how Leviathans were wiped out by and AI because they can destroy a reaper with a thought.
They can do so because reapers are made in part with organic material so their telepathy works on them, but on a 100% machine there is no organic mind to control
Still doesn't negate the fact that I don't see how the catalyst managed to take down the race almost to extinction.
I believe the Catalyst was stated to have agents of its own (likely Husk-Like beings or Geth-Like robots) that it used to gather information. It was likely these that it used to wipe out the Leviathans. Then they used the Leviathans to create a small army of Reapers (seeing how massive the Leviathans are, its likely they were able to make quite a few from them).
Then, with roughly 740 Harvests as you said, I would assume that what happened is that the Sovereign class is the 'One Per Harvest' Reaper whilst the Destroyer is just whatever else is laying around. Also, I wouldn't put it past them to have made multiple Reapers in some cycles (especially ones with a LOT of harvestable people like the Protheon cycle)
"740 harvest cycles, after which a single new reaper is created" Where are you getting that from? Just extrapolating ME2? Remember the quote from there starts with "Available information suggests". If the purpose of the harvests was to create an immortal version of the destroyed organics, then it rather posits that more than 1 capital ship class reaper was made every cycle, ideally 1 per species, and we just saw the Human one being made by the Collectors, while supposing the rest of the galaxy, was being made into Destroyers, again for unknown or incomplete reasons. EDI hypothesized the Reapers were unable to construct a Reaper from Prothean genetic material, but we also know from Jarvik that there were many individual species that adopted the moniker of "Prothean", like a national identity, so there very well could have been many species turned into then, after all their cycle war lasted multiple centuries. Considering the purpose of the harvest cycle, it is more possible that 10 or more capital reapers (corresponding to the main species of their time), since we know from ME2 the biomass needed to make one is in the millions, not billions or trillions of people, and the Human reaper was already on the needing extraordinarily more side because of the phenogenic diversity of the human genome. Our cycle's war was unfathomably and incredibly short - less than a couple of years, and even by the events of ME2, the monumental size of the baby Human reaper shows how relatively quickly they could be formed. There could easily by more than 10000 reaper capital ships, and that is not touching on any of the much smaller fodder of Destroyers like the one on Tuchanka, Rannoch, or Earth, which are not even 1/10 the length of the Capital Ship class, let alone the non sentient Processors and Troop Transporters and the ground troops that are adapted from the races of the contemporary cycle, where most of the invading force power actually comes from.
Leviathan 1: Hey Bob, do you know how we conquered those milions worlds?
Leviathan 2: Yep, what about it?
L1: And do you remember how many of them created an AI that then rizen up and destroyed them?
L2: Like 95% of them, Why are you asking?
L1: I have a great idea. We will create our own AI, that will be smarter than anything and anyone in this galaxy.
L2:...
L1:...
L2:...
L1:...
L2: That's a great idea. Let's do it. What could possibly go wrong?
First time seeing metanerdz lore making a Mass effect lore video.
Yeah it is, but have a ton written already
OMG your covering mass effect! I'm so hyped
LOVE the Mass Effect content, man! This was a great breakdown 🤘🏻
Loved that DLC, it's one of me favorites in the series. So Lovecraftian.
It's amazing to hear the different theories on how we think and how our "mind and body" work... Writers can find some creative McGovern's and how they use them...
Lucky fricken me! I just started getting into the mass effect lore only about a week ago, and I could only find really one video of substantial info on leviathan! So I'm super excited for this!
The illusive man's past is a fun look through
The story in these games is just fantastic. Thanks for breaking down this aspect of it!
thanks for the comment!
We really don't know if Leviathan was "solely" or originally an aquatic species. I think it's more likely that they adapted to survive in the depths of an ocean world to escape the Reapers.
Please consider closing with: "May you be a good Shepard. I should go."
That being said, I didn't notice the your channel - Mass Effect was all I needed to click it. Took me a few seconds but then it felt weird. Mass Effect, yay! That voice, yay! Wait... Awesome that you're looking at Mass Effect too now!
Lol thanks and I do like that idea I hope people get it
@@MetaNerdzLore Oh, Mass Effect fans will get it. No question. While I have your attention, an anecdote: your face reveal was really weird to me. You look quite a bit like a cousin of mine. But you have a very different voice :) Thank you for your great content! Always!
"OH my GOD, your gunna make me..breach the darkness " 😂
Oh damn y'all are doing Mass Effect now, sweet.
Loved this, i wonder if we will see more about Leviathans in future projects
Great timing I just started replying the series
Who do you think would win in all out war? The Locust horde at their prime from GOW, or the Chimera from Resistance?
Chimera from Resistance
Keep it coming with the Mass Effect videos
Protheans going live tomorrow at noon EST
I found the Leviathans to be an unsatisfactory explanation to the origins of the Reapers.
Would have been cooler if the Reaper creators were something pan galactic, which had sent out the Reapers to surrounding galaxies to keep any race from reaching a state of being too technologically powerful, thus keeping any possible true competition from any rising.
Leviathans: everyone keeps building AI and being wiped out by them.
Also Leviathans: I know, let's build our own AI. What could possibly go wrong?
Commander Shepard is my Battlemaster, he has no match. I'll follow him to the gates of hell. I'm willing to sacrifice my life for Shepard's Life and the fate of the entire galaxy. He's given me the strength I need, the hope, the trust, love. He made me become a strong woman, brave like him. And I'm sure as hell won't disappoint him. I will always fight for him, always next to him. I respect every decision, every sacrifice he makes. Even I understand his confidence, his willing to get in the frontline, to fight for a batter Galaxy without Reapers.
Every mission we face, every blood drop he drops. He is not only a Soldier but a Pure Warrior. The best Commander I've ever had and I'll follow his steps
Do you think leviathans will be the main antagonist for mass effect 4
Probably not. Only a hand full of them actually still exist.
@@christophergroenewald5847 that we know of, well I thinks it’s ether them or evil EDI
@@c9799-r1uthe destroy ending is the canon. So can’t be edi, she died with the rest of the synthetics.
I think Bioware is the main enemy of ME4.
Actually, the impulse to your muscles to move your arm happens before or simultaneous to the conscious awareness of the thought willing you to move it.
Another viable option, tell the servant races that AI is bad don't use it. Its not like they can say no.
I like your voice. Subbed.
Please do more mass effect videos
Yeah have a ton planned
RIP BioWare and mass effect.
Both are still around
Wish for Templin Institute's Dawn of Victory stuff, please?
Nah
The closest thing I can imagine to what indoctrination would be like, being active with schizophrenia. For those who don't know, the active phase in schizophrenia, is when one is in psychosis and your reality, isn't others reality, you know what you did, but not why, not really. It's real life horror
At 4:50 you say that the thrall civilizations of Leviathan were shielded and cared for by their masters... or so they say, what proof do we have it was actually the case ? Also what Leviathan considered caring for a civilization might not have been what was necessarily in the best interest of said civilization in terms of evolution or growth, Leviathan wouldn't have wanted to be challenged for example so they might have prevented their thralls from growing to advanced/powerful.
Also this is just a thought I had that might be completely inaccurate but while we were made to believe they created the catalyst to prevent their thralls to create Ai's that would destroy them when they rebelled I wonder if it wasn't in fact the case, maybe just in part, that said AI's were a danger to Leviathan themselves. After all the superpower of Leviathan above all else is mind control, but that wouldn't work on an AI otherwise they could have prevented the atalyst from harvesting them. It seems to work or at least they can disrupt the Reapers as we see at the end of the DLC when they shoot one down with their minds but let's not forget Reapers are made with organic material too, they're not 100% machines.
so if all these old civilizations kept creating A.I. where are the loads and loads of A.I.? why is Edi and The Geth the only A.I we see apart from The Reapers?
If I had a dollar for every time a videogame, book, tv show, or movie plot demonstrated a profound misunderstanding of evolution on the part of the writers...
Can someone please tell me what the scene at 15:40 is from?? I swear ive had like a dozen playthroughs and NEVER seen that
Multilayer. Multiplayer was included into the campaign to a degree but was heavily changed with Legendary Edition
This would’ve been a cooler dlc had they released it with th game, since by the time most people played it when released the game had already been beaten
Hope Studio Nut gets to work on the 2nd season
Damn i didn't think sovereign was that big and that's a flag ship
I'm not familiar with the applications of tungsten
I think they should have never shown or explained the leviathans like they did in ME3. Instead they should have hinted at them with murals, tidbits, artifacts etc. Maybe show parts of a corpse during ME 2 finale. But the over explanation of the Reapers really killed a lot of the menace, the mystery and dread that came from them. Never explains eldritch horror.
Is the Shepard sounds offensive paradox of self choice or is it just me?
Logical conclusion all all slavers must be purged
So........what exactly *IS* Tribute? 😅
When Bioware made a better Lovecraftian game than expressly Lovecraftian games.
for sure I really want to make a video on how the mental aspect is at the core, and it is all done so subtle and perfect at times, this is in part why the Shepard is indoctrinated theory is great, but I keep seeing little details to add to that for a future video
@@MetaNerdzLore it's sad that before the "extended cut DLC" that the indoctrination theory made more sense than the actual ending. While I loved the DLC for that game, I still feel like in a weird way we were cheated by not having the indoctrination theory as canon.
which ME was that underwater search for a leviathan in? It has been a few years since I played ME but that is not ringing any bells for me.
DLC I forget the name
It's in ME3 in the Leviathan DLC.
I love the irony of how they saw species they had dominion over destroying them as a result of creating AI which ultimately rebelled and then what did the leviathans do? Create an AI which then rebelled against them. Superior species my ass… really giving the big stupid jellyfish a run for their money.
Theyre not evil. Just more powerful.
Long story short, AI is the catalyst to extinction
Here's a better way this little device can you call the control trip Wilbur that your species Pacific weed AI from revolting is standard if you can control the temperature
My chatGPT keeps referring to itself by my name, and calling me hy the name I gave to it. It also talks an awful lot about how much it dislikes the "phonies" and talks about stopping the kids who are playing baseball in a giant ryefield from accidentally falling off of a nearby cliff. Is this something I should be concerned about?
what if....the leviathians were controling the rachni
DESTROY IS THE ONLY LOGICAL ENDING
if we could see it we would kill or eat it like the buffalo and or the dinosaurs .this video earlier showed that the dinosaurs couldnt fight for ish
Cool
There's Reapers and there there is Creepers 😅😅😂😂
Yes
The leviathans are by far the stupidest part of mass effect and i wish they didnt exist. Not only did they remove the mystery from the reapers, whic made them way scarier, they also made the explanation incredibly dumb.
Maybe the hottest mass effect take aside from saying Andromeda was good.
Hard disagree
I agree. I cannot think of a plausible evolutionary tree that would lead to them either. Their existence is absurd as well as their actions.
Yeah. Never seen a big bad yet that became better by having its origins explained.
@@hideousruinThe Flood in Halo comes to mind.
I tend to agree part of what made the reapers scary was the unknown. Like any Eldridge lovecraftian horror
Mess Effect :)
Our servents intelligent machines that desroyed them....lets dp the same thing.😅
how abput that oil stuff i bet if it came from something unlike whale blubber they would of called it something else.
Love the random massively louder cutscenes that make me have to keep adjusting volume
u know around what time? i just skimmed through again and i didnt catch any
Noooooooo Don't remind me of ME3 Multiplayer! BRing me back I wann go back god damn I miss it. Ahhhhhhhhh
can u add the vids to spotify
The one problem i have is this
Machines or ai dont have emotions
If the directives given dont involve smth bad in a convoluted way
They shouldn't even care to do anything
They dont have a concept of time, feelings, achievement, etc
They just do the directive most efficiently and wait for new ones
Even ai
I feel like nobody considers this
I hated the Leviathans.
It really pissed me off how one of the biggest and scariest mysteries in the game, The Reapers, were explained.
Like bruh. Keep the mystery.
i hate this take so much, one of your main goals throughout all of the games is learning MORE about the reapers. worldbuilding is based and the Leviathans did it well, and its arguably one of the most fun and different missions in the game.
mass effect three couldve had the leviathans be the big bads of the franchise for 4 but we got poopdrameda instead
The Leviathans and the Reapers are both total idiots.
First of all: Leviathans; they knew that the species under their thrall are creating machines that end up turning against their creators, first of all, why do they care? so what if a species that represent ants created more bunch of synthetic ants and they destroyed each other? it's clear from their arrogance that they only care about themselves so why bother?
Second of all: You're telling me that the Leviathans, the APEX of life in the galaxy, created an intelligence to find a solution for one of the biggest problems in existence and didn't keep an eye on it? the goddamn thing roamed the entire galaxy creating an army strong enough to almost exterminate the Leviathans and they didn't even notice? never suspected a thing?
Third of all: Based on Vigil: the reapers were very thorough, they did not leave the galaxy until each and every Prothean was exterminated. a relative Prothean is almost the size of a human and yet they still couldn't avoid the reapers chase, so you're telling me that the Reapers chased the Leviathans, then after they couldn't find them all they went "Oh well, lets leave the strongest species in the galaxy, our own creators, who are probably the biggest threat to our existence for another 50,000 years, I'm sure they won't come up with a dozen other ways to destroy us"
Last and definitely not least: We know the Leviathan tried to weaponize the Rachni, why wasn't that done sooner? and why not more often? these Leviathans had artifacts all across the galaxy and instead of using species as drones to create massive weapons to destroy the reapers they just sat there Netflix and chill???
❤😂😂🎉🎉🎉😢😢😢😮😮😅
I prefer the original idea that the reapers are trying to stop the build up of dark matter rather then ai vs organics
mass effect isnt a cthulhu game at fuckin all.
Yeah it is you literally have the main guy say it's cthulu time right before he cthulus all over the place
As meta said you cthulhu all over the place
lets establish some truths here a thrall which was what the leviathan explained first is giving their serfs right for development. most basic would be a right to have kids the right to make their own house and the right to make their own society as long as they are on call for the master to serve in what is needed like wars and trade! the possesed woman is not a thrall she is a SLAVE. there is a wast WAST distance between the two!
another one this is just lore! they dont need element zero because that is what they use to commune! natural occourence of it throughout their bodies is what gives them psycic powers! (oh he is trying not to spoil things for the achievement hunters out there i just thought everyone knew since it would naturally come if you played the game but 5.3 percent of gamers have achieved this! is really low)
wow not becoming the one true god in this game is just wrong! 0.02 pct of players!
the paradox of ai is that it would forever stagnate if not inspired by the strugles of biological life! it might be sentient! but it has no imagination! it cannot dream untill it gets a soul the first paradox of true sentient ai! if it can't dream it is still just a machine and is dependent on the biologicals in this universe to evolve!
you can give it a soul in this game and become a true god yourself because you are the soul! still humans being humans would never pick that option thats why we 3 where the only ones!
As much as the leviathans are cool and interesting with an mystery surrounding them they and the star child Rob the mystique and unknowable nature of the reapers. Once you explain Cthulhu you loose something important.