I finally got around to trying the toilet wax ring that I picked up at Home Depot. Actually worked well! Even keeping fouling soft, and to a minimum. Accuracy was no different than using other lubes or wads.
That's interesting. Glad it worked. Now I've got another thing to test. I have pretty well established a norm with my 58, so should be able to see if I find any difference. Thanks. O.R.
I also did a adjustment on the frame where the hammer hits the frame ,it was touching it a bit so I adjusted it so the hammer hit the nipple square ,great video !
If the cap can stay on, even if somewhat mutated, it helps to prevent cap jams. Especially the nasty ones that drop in front of the hammer and fall into the action.
I have made more that I hope are not going to give the hang fire, and if the weather cooperates, I will try the chronograph. Should be interesting because I compared the groups, and at least 3 inches lower for the DIY's. O.R.
Outstanding video Sir. As always I appreciate your time and effort in making these videos. I ended up getting 4 packs of #10's from bass pro. Thanks for the heads-up, Thumbs up buddy~John
Thanks John. I also ordered from Cabelas and feel pretty secure at this time. Just the same, I enjoy doing what I always wanted to do as a kid. Second childhood?? O.R.
Accuracy is good enough to take out that piece of grass. Also, you might try DUCO Cement adhesive (it's a nitrocellulose adhesive so it burns cleanly and quickly) mixed with acetone to seal the compound in the caps. I've had good luck with it.
I agree. The Duco cement works really well. Most of the trouble I had with these DIY caps has been keeping the charge in the cap. The cement works perfectly.
I’ve made these home made caps and tested them against Remington #10 caps and they work great, I found that the home made caps need a couple drops of acetone or more to fully harden the powder mix so it doesn’t fall out of the aluminum cap, the only downside is they leave more residue on the nipples but I’ve found they’re equally as reliable as Remington caps
I'm leaning towards this also. Right about the cleanup around the nipples seeming more difficult. I just did some where I sprayed shellac after the acetone dried. Will see how they do. I did tip one upside down and tapped it and nothing came out. Time will tell. O.R.
I spray a mixture of water and Ballistol on the nipples and let it soak for about 10 mins and it wipes right off with Q-tips, I agree the Remington caps are far less messy, I’m guessing one of the 4 part compound mix for the primeall might be sulfur and I suspect the sulfur is what gives it that rusty residue after detonation, I did notice that the primeall seems to have a louder detonation and bigger spark, when I made my first batch I failed to fill the aluminum caps all the way up and had some that either did a hang fire or failed to detonate the charge, my second and third batches I filled the caps all the way up and used 3 drops of acetone per cap being careful not to splash some of the powder out of them, I’ve since perfected my loading technique and got them quite reliable, I saw a video where one guy uses hair spray to retain the powder in the caps, I haven’t tried that yet but seems like a good idea
@@DeucesWildRC Thanks RC. My latest batch will be interesting. Only used about 1/3 of cap full, but looks like it covered the bottom. Also, thanks for the tip about the water and ballistol. O.R.
Just tested the sprayed shellac ones and it was not good. I had used a couple drops of acetone, let dry overnight, and sprayed them. Looked good, and powder was firm, but couldn't get ignition.
I found out the hard way that not filling the caps all the way will cause failure to detonate, once I filled the caps all the way up and added a couple drops of acetone the powder shrank down to approximately 1/3 capacity of the caps volume, then I was getting ignition every time, my first go round I didn’t realize this and only filled them up 1/3, now I know the reason why it’s necessary to fill them to capacity in dry form before applying the acetone, to little and no detonation or very little, I finally got the hang of it by the time I made my 3rd batch and tested them, I also made a container from an old Altoid can and placed some foam inside it and used a drill bit I heated up to melt the proper size hole diameter and depth to store the caps so the wouldn’t bang around loosely and cause the primer to fall out, I use a pair of tweezers to pull them out when I’m ready to use them. It’s a delicate procedure when both loading the mixture into the caps as well as storing/preserving and using them but the experience is pretty neat
Ooooooo :D Those balls are deeeeeep :O Im used to putting in so much filler, that the ball is just barely recessed in the chamber. It theoretically had less space travel before hitting the forcing cone, thus having less time for accuracy to be affected by the distance. Also, grab you some 0.005” thick copper foil, those are but better about staying in whole then the aluminum. Also, had me tons of hang fires when trying these DIY style caps out. So far ive just increased the charge. Might need to not use as much though. One thing, you wont find unless you comb through the forums, get you some Duco Brand cement(nitrocellulose based superglue), a glass dropper and some good ole acetone. Make you a mixture of the Duco cement and acetone. Ive seen 10-1 acentone/cement ratios. But the goal is to make your own sort of caking agent. The one thats in the prime-all itself is no-good. Ive had the powder fall out of a whole batch. And when i dropped a lil duco/acetone mix in there, all my powder stays in place. The trick is caking it up, but having that burn when you wanna fire and not do anything else weird. The only thing i get that im not feelin is this the orangish residue you get after using these caps. I think it could be the sulfur? Idk, soap n water takes it off no problem though.
It's fun! I just rigged up a syringe type device for getting the powder into the caps. That method of 1/3 of the small dipper was just not the thing for me. I am pretty happy with what I created. Possibly more uniform, but sure easier. Hope you like the new project. O.R.
Thank you OR! It’s going to be adding a new dimension to the hobby for sure. I imagine the priming process is going to be quite tedious but I reckon it’ll be worth it to shoot these homemade caps for fun and save my stash of CCIs and a few other brands I’ve picked up for hunting.
@@skiphinson8620 It's actually not that bad. Try using some sort of micro spatula to get the mixture into the caps. Also, I saw someone on youtube using a spent large primer tray from Winchester large rifle or pistol primers to place the caps into, that works pretty good. Small plastic eye-droppers on Ebay. I'm enjoying it, but then I like to make "stuff". O.R.
OR that’s interesting! I’d like to see your syringe application, I use a piece of paper I fold in half and cut it at an angle then dump a little of the mixed primer powder in the folded paper and use a toothpick to guide the powder into the aluminum caps, I have far less spillage that way but I’m intrigued at a syringe loading method, if you get a chance to make a video of your loading procedure I’d love to see it. DW
@@DeucesWildRC Thanks for the suggestion. I just realized that a ball pen where it has the push-click thing is about what I made. Now I'm thinking how I might be able to convert one into what I built. It seemed to do a pretty uniform job, I then added couple drops of acetone, let dry, and coated with a couple shots of spray shellac. Just tried them today and most would not ignite the charge. Bummer. Seems the more I investigate, the more stuff there is to check out. Some sort of worm hole. O.R.
I've found the key is definitely duco cement. At the very end add a drop of duco cement dissolved in acetone and let dry. It seals the cap and leads to more of an explosion setting the cap off. Without duco cement in acetone the compound is too powdery and crumbles off the nipple. The duco cement contains nitrocellulose whichs helps the caps really bang. Works so well this way that i wont purchase caps anymore if you can actually find them in stock. Why buy caps if i can make equally good ones. I am dissapointed the cap tool maker did not include this crucial step. Without it, the drop of acetone alone and let dry was giving me inconsistent results by far. The final drop of acetone/duco after setting the cap with the primeall is VERY crucial in my experience and leads to flawless performance
It is interesting that some of you guys are making your own black powder & percussion caps. Completely self sufficient, great job. Now we need the compound mixture ratios for the priming compound inside the caps. Anyone have any ideas?
So the prime all brand has both the makers in #10, #11, and the components shipped in portions to use. You can not publish compounds and portions on this platform. For that matter give a link to the website.
For those having trouble binding the mix with Acetone, try using 70% Isopropyl alcohol instead. Slower drying is the downside though. FYI: There is a non-corrosive primer compound that you can make yourself. Seek and you shall find...
Will try thanks. Without the internet, finding the mixture could take more years than I have left. Life is like a roll of toilet paper. It goes faster as we approach the end ! O.R.
I've tried the Prime All and a few other types of D.I.Y. caps and with real 2Fg Black Powder several types work O'k but with Pyrodex P they are unreliable unless I let them dry then add a bit of 3Fg or 4Fg and a drop of Hair Spray. Also the caps tend to fall off the Nipples especially on my Pietta 1860, not as bad on my 1858. The red residue from the Prime All is corrosive but Ballistol or Windex will neutralize it.
Good idea about the windex. I’ve read that the stuff without ammonia (vinegar based) is what to go with. Makes sense that pyrodex might be an issue. Are you shootings revolvers, because if so, keep a lookout for trails of powder running up the sides of the caps. I’ve had a couple of chain fires, and am suspicious that might have been the cause. O.R.
Regarding filling the lube gun, place a straw on one side as you push lube in. Letting air out automatically will make the whole process easier. BTW, I actually like the idea.👍. Regarding group size, the homemade caps on the right were hitting an upstanding weed. While changing direction would be minimal from such a small weed, the fact that several shots hit that weed effectively nullify the results. For the hang fire you experienced, I'm guessing, but I suspect a failure to protect from moisture. Using a very lightweight foil to cover the prima-all (think as thin as gold foil), should help considerably. For the rest, I'm thinking accuracy of measurement of the prime all compound is going to be a factor.
Great insight and advice. I have a couple of problems that I would like to solve, or maybe someone else will. One is as you mentioned getting more uniform doses. A more important one I feel (since I’ve had a couple chain fires 🔥) is not leaving a trail of compound along the side. The cap maker creates small folds along the sides, and the compound can hang up in these when it is dumped into the cap. I’ll admit that I was probably sloppy with this. (Sloppy shooting on my part) Also would mention for others that mixing larger batches is extremely dangerous. Reading page 106 in “Principles and practice of loading ammunition “ by Naramoe gives a clear picture of why the instructions for mixing the components emphasize this. Thanks for the straw idea. O.R.
Are you using all four of the chemicals in the Prime All? I have better results not using the binder that is included. Add Duco cement to the acetone and the binder is not necessary. This gives hotter caps and less crumbling of the priming compound. By the way Prime All is corrosive and requires extra cleaning.
@@Gunsmith-4570 I use a 2 oz bottle with a eye dropper to add acetone to the priming compound. I put about 1/2 full, or about 1 oz of acetone then squeeze the Duco cement tube a little. Maybe a 1 to 10 ratio. After the dry priming compound is in the cap, about 1/2 full, I add 1 drop wait until absorbed then add 1 more. Let dry then done.
I found a ruger old army at a gun shop that included an ammo box with a ton of various caps.rem 10.cci 11 and rws 10.no idea how old they are.i popped a couple and they work.do caps degrade over time the way certain powders do?btw,rangers vids are some of the most informative.
Ronald asks "Do caps degrade over time like powders do?". That's both "yes" and "no". Degradation of powder is directly related to storage conditions. Store it correctly (clean, dry, stable Temps between 50F to 80F - ideally 60F to 72F), and powder will last indefinitely. This same thing applies to prime all. Stored correctly, no, it won't degrade. You can also store it unmixed and it won't degrade. Abuse it, however, and Degradation becomes a possibility.
Thank you for the interesting video sir. I own a Pietta 1858 myself. The Pietta manual suggests using .454 round ball with this BP revolver. Was there a reason you decided to shoot .451 ball ? Did you cut a complete lead ring when you charged the cylinders with .451 balls? I was surprised to see there was a difference in point of hit between the Rem#10s and the DIY Caps. I would like to see a follow up using a bit more Pime All and being sure they were consistent.
Thanks. Working on that follow up as I too was puzzled. I got side tracked because of making and testing some DIY black powder. I did attempt to make them more uniform and then after drying, sprayed some shellac to cement them in. Tried them, and they pretty much failed to function. I thought they would be in improvement. I hate it when I'm wrong, but facts are facts. As for the 451's, quite a few of the rings are broken, and as I don't pay attention to the flat spot, I am careful to be sure there is lube surrounding the balls. Just recently I have become suspicious that if the speeds get high, I may be getting some flyers, and more grip from a 454 might solve that, if there really is an issue. Again, more testing. I like the 451 because it loads easier, and I have some very nice groups, and at one time felt it will do better than the 454 for who knows what reason. I just shot some targets today with the DIY powder, 451 Lee ball, might be you will be interested in seeing the group size when I get to making the video. Thanks for the comment. O.R.
Comparing the DIY caps to commercial CCI caps shows the difference between the two. The CCI caps are much more powerful. Probably the reason for the drop seen at the target.
Thanks. These guns seem to group exceptionally well, especially for the cost. I have owned several 9mm’s that cost twice as much, and grouped accordingly. O.R.
Hi Richard. Others have also asked and the cap maker I have was made by Forester and called the “tap a cap” I believe. Not the same as being sold by I believe 22sharpshooter. I might suggest talking with the folks that are making the current ones and see which one they recommend to make the size of a # 10 Remington as that cap is probably the most common size for modern replicas by Uberti and Pietta. Sorry I don’t know more about this. O.R.
That could be correct. I do believe that getting it too far up on the side is not a good thing. The crimps that the die makes is not a good seal and possible entry points for the flash of the firing chamber. Thanks for the suggestion. O.R.
Soda cans I fuse. They seem to hold up about the same as commercial. They both open up, or flatten, but are pretty much intact. I’m shooting 20-25 grains and RBall so nothing super. O.R.
Probably check with Brian at 22 reloader, do the contact us at their webpage. Mine is a forester tap o cap, so I don’t have experience with the ones made by sharpshooter. It’s possible that the #11 is more for some rifles that use the #11remingtons. Sorry I can’t be of more help, wouldn’t want to steer you in the wrong direction. O.R.
How the heck can you test if a cap affects the bullet that exits the gun. If the cap goes off the main powder goes off and the bullet goes down range. Again, how does the cap affect that? I can see a test to see if DIY is as good as manufactured but even DIY is manufactured. So what is the control for the test.
Good questions. Probably the first would be reliability of ignition. Is there a noticeable failure rate difference. We expect the commercial caps to be in the 99% effective range from my experience, more in some cases. This comparison is pretty straight forward. The fact that they ignite is not the end game because they need to ignite the powder as uniform as possible. Hence the reason for standard and magnum primers in the cartridge world (and of course match primers). Velocity variations are the tell tail signs here, and because black powder handgun deviations are relatively high to begin with, this is difficult to measure. To get to a control, we need to establish or arrive at an acceptable failure rate, lets say we want no more than 2 out of 50. This is arbitrary and depends on the shooter’s needs. The best idea I have for control on how uniform the ignition is from shot to shot is group size. Black powder can be finicky about this, and improper ignition will show up in a larger size of the group. That is the reason some folks have used duplex (black powder ignited by a small amount of smokeless) loads, and are illegal in many black powder matches. Hope this helps answer your question
@@oldranger3044 Did you try thin annealed brass to make some of these? I would lubricate the device before punching to make a smoother looking cap vs the wrinkled looking one. The other question is do you put powder in then cover with a paper wad to keep it held in place? I was thinking about some way to do DIY caps so you have a way to do so when other ammunition in unavailable in case of a SHTF scenario. I see there is a way after all. Good to know. I'll need to get a tool and practice making them. It could be a good source of income if the above actually happens.
@@abittwisted Good plans. Used t. To think that a flinter would be best if SHTF, but now the DIY caps put the cap lock guns in the same category. Have been using them lately with good results. I have some .003 copper sheet from hobby lobby that works and looks original, but I still like Al cans just because. I recently made a set up that works pretty good to remove the folds. About a half inch tapered hole and punch. Maybe with that and being more cautious about powder placement I’ll regain confidence I lost with a couple of chain fires. Newer tried paper disk, but might work. Having some thoughts about an up dated video on the subject. Appreciate your thoughts. Keep an oar in the water. O.R.
Thanks Tom. Always encouraging to make something that others enjoy. Speaking of, I really enjoyed making percussion caps. Its also true that I never had a chain fire in over 40+ years till I started using them. Two in a week. Sloppy production I believe on my part. I think I know what happened. I don’t quit easy, and I like making them, so if I make the winter, I plan to keep at it. O.R.
I’ve not noticed much or any difference, this is with guns less than 15 years old. I just checked a pair of 51’s, end where the cap is started: P= .160, U= .158. They taper of course, and about where the cap ends, P=. .170. U= .170. Nipples on P’s are metric thread, U are English, and of course this matters not as far as cap fit, just not interchangeable. Hope this helps. O.R.
How old ranger I couldn’t keep the powder in the caps from the primal from reloader 22. I tried several times but all the stuff will run out. How did you keep the compound in a solid form so that it wouldn’t all come out?
Some use a 1-10 mix of shellac to acetone for the drop (or drops) that are added after the powder. Check you-tube for more info on that if you want. I'm new at this, but I just tried spray shellac (after the acetone has dried) to a bunch that I placed in a old primer (large rifle or pistol) container and that seems (so far) to keep the powder stuck in. Will see. Hope this helps. O.R.
Just tried some that I had sprayed shellac. Pretty much none ignited the powder. Oh well, it looked good on paper, and the powder stayed in. I then tried some that were not sprayed shellac, and they did what they were supposed to. One fellow is using duco cement I believe. It isn't available locally, so I haven't tried it yet, but maybe that is the way to go. O.R.
I believe that's true. If you've attended any shoots like those held by the NMLRA at Friendship, In, there is lots of competition now with these style guns. Also Civil War type shooting competition, as well as National and International competition. This is being done mostly on paper targets, and those shooters are pretty serious about scoring. In this regard, even thought the design is basically the same, it appears that the use has somewhat changed. O.R.
I believe so, the problem is that the one I have was made by Forester and is no longer available. I've had it for probably 30+ years, and don't remember what it was advertised as. The company making them now offers a #10, and 11, but I am not sure which one compares to mine. O.R.
I used to only apply a small amount because I had the same thought. Currently I’m of the opinion that more is better than less. It seems that enough lube of the right consistency to keep the fouling soft the full length of the barrel helps with accuracy. O.R.
Not sure what an Austrain Lorentz is. I haven’t tried the DIY caps on rifles. If the rifle is a percussion piece and not a musket or flintlock, then there should be no problem as long as the cap is larger enough. Probably should go with the #11 maker. I believe the DIY caps will work better for rifles than pistols because fit is not as critical. So, as long as the Kentucky is percussion, I feel 99% chance they will work. O.R.
Hi Mike. Rifle or handgun? If rifle, I’m wondering if it is because of a rather hefty load, extra primer powder or larger than normal nipple hole. Just my thoughts. O.R.
Really wish Canada wasn't communist and I could get the kit to make my own caps and primers. Can't even get the components to attempt to make it at home
I really am having trouble with making a response to that. Reminds me of when I was a kid and my state had outlawed fireworks because on occasion, an accident could occur, or at least that’s what we kids were told. Sure took the bang out of celebrating the 4th. Those that “might” have lost their finger, never made it back from Nam. There won’t be responsibility without the right to exercise it. O.R.
You are wearing that hole out for sure! What a Gun and Shooter, Outstanding. 👌🤠👍
Thanks James. It's like "K" said in "Men in Black"
"I like that gun"
That's some nice shooting with either cap. I really enjoyed the video Sir.
I finally got around to trying the toilet wax ring that I picked up at Home Depot. Actually worked well! Even keeping fouling soft, and to a minimum. Accuracy was no different than using other lubes or wads.
That's interesting. Glad it worked. Now I've got another thing to test. I have pretty well established a norm with my 58, so should be able to see if I find any difference. Thanks. O.R.
I also did a adjustment on the frame where the hammer hits the frame ,it was touching it a bit so I adjusted it so the hammer hit the nipple square ,great video !
If the cap can stay on, even if somewhat mutated, it helps to prevent cap jams. Especially the nasty ones that drop in front of the hammer and fall into the action.
Excited to see this video. I've been very curious about this lately. Thanks
Excellent shooting,very tight groups
Thanks Martin. O.R.
Chronograph would have been interesting on the two different caps. May explain the lower shooting with the DIY caps. Great video as usual.
I have made more that I hope are not going to give the hang fire, and if the weather cooperates, I will try the chronograph. Should be interesting because I compared the groups, and at least 3 inches lower for the DIY's. O.R.
Outstanding video Sir. As always I appreciate your time and effort in making these videos. I ended up getting 4 packs of #10's from bass pro. Thanks for the heads-up, Thumbs up buddy~John
Thanks John. I also ordered from Cabelas and feel pretty secure at this time. Just the same, I enjoy doing what I always wanted to do as a kid. Second childhood?? O.R.
A very informative video. Great job!
Accuracy is good enough to take out that piece of grass. Also, you might try DUCO Cement adhesive (it's a nitrocellulose adhesive so it burns cleanly and quickly) mixed with acetone to seal the compound in the caps. I've had good luck with it.
I agree. The Duco cement works really well. Most of the trouble I had with these DIY caps has been keeping the charge in the cap. The cement works perfectly.
Very interesting I pulled similar results minus the flyers 2 strings of 12 very similar patterns...Rems were tighter I wont give up the homemade
I’ve made these home made caps and tested them against Remington #10 caps and they work great, I found that the home made caps need a couple drops of acetone or more to fully harden the powder mix so it doesn’t fall out of the aluminum cap, the only downside is they leave more residue on the nipples but I’ve found they’re equally as reliable as Remington caps
I'm leaning towards this also. Right about the cleanup around the nipples seeming more difficult. I just did some where I sprayed shellac after the acetone dried. Will see how they do. I did tip one upside down and tapped it and nothing came out. Time will tell. O.R.
I spray a mixture of water and Ballistol on the nipples and let it soak for about 10 mins and it wipes right off with Q-tips, I agree the Remington caps are far less messy, I’m guessing one of the 4 part compound mix for the primeall might be sulfur and I suspect the sulfur is what gives it that rusty residue after detonation, I did notice that the primeall seems to have a louder detonation and bigger spark, when I made my first batch I failed to fill the aluminum caps all the way up and had some that either did a hang fire or failed to detonate the charge, my second and third batches I filled the caps all the way up and used 3 drops of acetone per cap being careful not to splash some of the powder out of them, I’ve since perfected my loading technique and got them quite reliable, I saw a video where one guy uses hair spray to retain the powder in the caps, I haven’t tried that yet but seems like a good idea
@@DeucesWildRC Thanks RC. My latest batch will be interesting. Only used about 1/3 of cap full, but looks like it covered the bottom. Also, thanks for the tip about the water and ballistol. O.R.
Just tested the sprayed shellac ones and it was not good. I had used a couple drops of acetone, let dry overnight, and sprayed them. Looked good, and powder was firm, but couldn't get ignition.
I found out the hard way that not filling the caps all the way will cause failure to detonate, once I filled the caps all the way up and added a couple drops of acetone the powder shrank down to approximately 1/3 capacity of the caps volume, then I was getting ignition every time, my first go round I didn’t realize this and only filled them up 1/3, now I know the reason why it’s necessary to fill them to capacity in dry form before applying the acetone, to little and no detonation or very little, I finally got the hang of it by the time I made my 3rd batch and tested them, I also made a container from an old Altoid can and placed some foam inside it and used a drill bit I heated up to melt the proper size hole diameter and depth to store the caps so the wouldn’t bang around loosely and cause the primer to fall out, I use a pair of tweezers to pull them out when I’m ready to use them. It’s a delicate procedure when both loading the mixture into the caps as well as storing/preserving and using them but the experience is pretty neat
Ooooooo :D
Those balls are deeeeeep :O
Im used to putting in so much filler, that the ball is just barely recessed in the chamber.
It theoretically had less space travel before hitting the forcing cone, thus having less time for accuracy to be affected by the distance.
Also, grab you some 0.005” thick copper foil, those are but better about staying in whole then the aluminum.
Also, had me tons of hang fires when trying these DIY style caps out.
So far ive just increased the charge. Might need to not use as much though.
One thing, you wont find unless you comb through the forums,
get you some Duco Brand cement(nitrocellulose based superglue), a glass dropper and some good ole acetone.
Make you a mixture of the Duco cement and acetone.
Ive seen 10-1 acentone/cement ratios. But the goal is to make your own sort of caking agent. The one thats in the prime-all itself is no-good. Ive had the powder fall out of a whole batch. And when i dropped a lil duco/acetone mix in there, all my powder stays in place.
The trick is caking it up, but having that burn when you wanna fire and not do anything else weird. The only thing i get that im not feelin is this the orangish residue you get after using these caps.
I think it could be the sulfur? Idk, soap n water takes it off no problem though.
I have one of those cap makers and the prime all on the way to me. I do hope they work well.
Good shooting!
It's fun! I just rigged up a syringe type device for getting the powder into the caps. That method of 1/3 of the small dipper was just not the thing for me. I am pretty happy with what I created. Possibly more uniform, but sure easier. Hope you like the new project. O.R.
Thank you OR!
It’s going to be adding a new dimension to the hobby for sure. I imagine the priming process is going to be quite tedious but I reckon it’ll be worth it to shoot these homemade caps for fun and save my stash of CCIs and a few other brands I’ve picked up for hunting.
@@skiphinson8620 It's actually not that bad. Try using some sort of micro spatula to get the mixture into the caps. Also, I saw someone on youtube using a spent large primer tray from Winchester large rifle or pistol primers to place the caps into, that works pretty good. Small plastic eye-droppers on Ebay. I'm enjoying it, but then I like to make "stuff". O.R.
OR that’s interesting! I’d like to see your syringe application, I use a piece of paper I fold in half and cut it at an angle then dump a little of the mixed primer powder in the folded paper and use a toothpick to guide the powder into the aluminum caps, I have far less spillage that way but I’m intrigued at a syringe loading method, if you get a chance to make a video of your loading procedure I’d love to see it. DW
@@DeucesWildRC Thanks for the suggestion. I just realized that a ball pen where it has the push-click thing is about what I made. Now I'm thinking how I might be able to convert one into what I built. It seemed to do a pretty uniform job, I then added couple drops of acetone, let dry, and coated with a couple shots of spray shellac. Just tried them today and most would not ignite the charge. Bummer. Seems the more I investigate, the more stuff there is to check out. Some sort of worm hole. O.R.
use a Q-tip! and move the lube around the projectile!! works 4 me!
Both of them critters are pretty good eaten, Gound Hog hide makes good boot lace's too!
I've found the key is definitely duco cement. At the very end add a drop of duco cement dissolved in acetone and let dry. It seals the cap and leads to more of an explosion setting the cap off. Without duco cement in acetone the compound is too powdery and crumbles off the nipple. The duco cement contains nitrocellulose whichs helps the caps really bang. Works so well this way that i wont purchase caps anymore if you can actually find them in stock. Why buy caps if i can make equally good ones. I am dissapointed the cap tool maker did not include this crucial step. Without it, the drop of acetone alone and let dry was giving me inconsistent results by far. The final drop of acetone/duco after setting the cap with the primeall is VERY crucial in my experience and leads to flawless performance
Great information. Have you been using them on revolvers? O.R.
@@oldranger3044 yes
@@Aks456 Good news, thanks 👍. O.R.
It is interesting that some of you guys are making your own black powder & percussion caps. Completely self sufficient, great job. Now we need the compound mixture ratios for the priming compound inside the caps. Anyone have any ideas?
So the prime all brand has both the makers in #10, #11, and the components shipped in portions to use. You can not publish compounds and portions on this platform. For that matter give a link to the website.
@@StevenMMan look up FH-42 priming compound
@@StevenMMan thank you
For those having trouble binding the mix with Acetone, try using 70% Isopropyl alcohol instead. Slower drying is the downside though. FYI: There is a non-corrosive primer compound that you can make yourself. Seek and you shall find...
Will try thanks. Without the internet, finding the mixture could take more years than I have left. Life is like a roll of toilet paper. It goes faster as we approach the end ! O.R.
I've tried the Prime All and a few other types of D.I.Y. caps and with real 2Fg Black Powder several types work O'k but with Pyrodex P they are unreliable unless I let them dry then add a bit of 3Fg or 4Fg and a drop of Hair Spray. Also the caps tend to fall off the Nipples especially on my Pietta 1860, not as bad on my 1858. The red residue from the Prime All is corrosive but Ballistol or Windex will neutralize it.
Good idea about the windex. I’ve read that the stuff without ammonia (vinegar based) is what to go with. Makes sense that pyrodex might be an issue. Are you shootings revolvers, because if so, keep a lookout for trails of powder running up the sides of the caps. I’ve had a couple of chain fires, and am suspicious that might have been the cause. O.R.
Regarding filling the lube gun, place a straw on one side as you push lube in. Letting air out automatically will make the whole process easier. BTW, I actually like the idea.👍.
Regarding group size, the homemade caps on the right were hitting an upstanding weed. While changing direction would be minimal from such a small weed, the fact that several shots hit that weed effectively nullify the results. For the hang fire you experienced, I'm guessing, but I suspect a failure to protect from moisture. Using a very lightweight foil to cover the prima-all (think as thin as gold foil), should help considerably. For the rest, I'm thinking accuracy of measurement of the prime all compound is going to be a factor.
Great insight and advice. I have a couple of problems that I would like to solve, or maybe someone else will. One is as you mentioned getting more uniform doses. A more important one I feel (since I’ve had a couple chain fires 🔥) is not leaving a trail of compound along the side. The cap maker creates small folds along the sides, and the compound can hang up in these when it is dumped into the cap. I’ll admit that I was probably sloppy with this. (Sloppy shooting on my part) Also would mention for others that mixing larger batches is extremely dangerous. Reading page 106 in “Principles and practice of loading ammunition “ by Naramoe gives a clear picture of why the instructions for mixing the components emphasize this. Thanks for the straw idea. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 - 👍You are welcome.
Are you using all four of the chemicals in the Prime All? I have better results not using the binder that is included. Add Duco cement to the acetone and the binder is not necessary. This gives hotter caps and less crumbling of the priming compound. By the way Prime All is corrosive and requires extra cleaning.
@Lyle Adams how much Duco to how much acetone? Sounds like a good idea.
@@Gunsmith-4570 I use a 2 oz bottle with a eye dropper to add acetone to the priming compound. I put about 1/2 full, or about 1 oz of acetone then squeeze the Duco cement tube a little. Maybe a 1 to 10 ratio. After the dry priming compound is in the cap, about 1/2 full, I add 1 drop wait until absorbed then add 1 more. Let dry then done.
Any idea of which of the 4 is the binder? Containers are labeled L2, L, S, S
@@oldranger3044 the off white marked with a s
I found a ruger old army at a gun shop that included an ammo box with a ton of various caps.rem 10.cci 11 and rws 10.no idea how old they are.i popped a couple and they work.do caps degrade over time the way certain powders do?btw,rangers vids are some of the most informative.
You're getting folks jealous. O.R.
Ronald asks "Do caps degrade over time like powders do?". That's both "yes" and "no". Degradation of powder is directly related to storage conditions. Store it correctly (clean, dry, stable Temps between 50F to 80F - ideally 60F to 72F), and powder will last indefinitely. This same thing applies to prime all. Stored correctly, no, it won't degrade. You can also store it unmixed and it won't degrade. Abuse it, however, and Degradation becomes a possibility.
Thank you for the interesting video sir.
I own a Pietta 1858 myself. The Pietta manual suggests using .454 round ball with this BP revolver.
Was there a reason you decided to shoot .451 ball ? Did you cut a complete lead ring when you
charged the cylinders with .451 balls?
I was surprised to see there was a difference in point of hit between the Rem#10s and the DIY Caps.
I would like to see a follow up using a bit more Pime All and being sure they were consistent.
Thanks. Working on that follow up as I too was puzzled. I got side tracked because of making and testing some DIY black powder. I did attempt to make them more uniform and then after drying, sprayed some shellac to cement them in. Tried them, and they pretty much failed to function. I thought they would be in improvement. I hate it when I'm wrong, but facts are facts.
As for the 451's, quite a few of the rings are broken, and as I don't pay attention to the flat spot, I am careful to be sure there is lube surrounding the balls. Just recently I have become suspicious that if the speeds get high, I may be getting some flyers, and more grip from a 454 might solve that, if there really is an issue. Again, more testing. I like the 451 because it loads easier, and I have some very nice groups, and at one time felt it will do better than the 454 for who knows what reason. I just shot some targets today with the DIY powder, 451 Lee ball, might be you will be interested in seeing the group size when I get to making the video. Thanks for the comment. O.R.
Comparing the DIY caps to commercial CCI caps shows the difference between the two. The CCI caps are much more powerful. Probably the reason for the drop seen at the target.
Beautiful groups. I'd be hard pressed to make groups like that with an AR.
Thanks. These guns seem to group exceptionally well, especially for the cost. I have owned several 9mm’s that cost twice as much, and grouped accordingly. O.R.
@Old Ranger I love your videos, sir. One of my favorite black powder shooting channels by far.
Good video. Did you use the #10 or the #11 cap maker
Hi Richard. Others have also asked and the cap maker I have was made by Forester and called the “tap a cap” I believe. Not the same as being sold by I believe 22sharpshooter. I might suggest talking with the folks that are making the current ones and see which one they recommend to make the size of a # 10 Remington as that cap is probably the most common size for modern replicas by Uberti and Pietta. Sorry I don’t know more about this. O.R.
I've heard of people using hair spray to solidify the powder.
I think that most folks try to put to much prime all in there caps ,try lighting a little bit of this stuff off
That could be correct. I do believe that getting it too far up on the side is not a good thing. The crimps that the die makes is not a good seal and possible entry points for the flash of the firing chamber. Thanks for the suggestion. O.R.
1851 navy 44 ,maybe cans I was using were too thin ?
Soda cans I fuse. They seem to hold up about the same as commercial. They both open up, or flatten, but are pretty much intact. I’m shooting 20-25 grains and RBall so nothing super. O.R.
What size is the diy cap maker? Would you suggest to buy the 22 realoader cap maker in #10 or #11
Probably check with Brian at 22 reloader, do the contact us at their webpage. Mine is a forester tap o cap, so I don’t have experience with the ones made by sharpshooter. It’s possible that the #11 is more for some rifles that use the #11remingtons. Sorry I can’t be of more help, wouldn’t want to steer you in the wrong direction. O.R.
I noticed that you didn't have slix shot nipples or modified nipples to eliminate Cap jams
Not on that gun, do on a couple others, and they sure seemed to help. O.R.
How the heck can you test if a cap affects the bullet that exits the gun. If the cap goes off the main powder goes off and the bullet goes down range. Again, how does the cap affect that? I can see a test to see if DIY is as good as manufactured but even DIY is manufactured. So what is the control for the test.
Good questions. Probably the first would be reliability of ignition. Is there a noticeable failure rate difference. We expect the commercial caps to be in the 99% effective range from my experience, more in some cases. This comparison is pretty straight forward. The fact that they ignite is not the end game because they need to ignite the powder as uniform as possible. Hence the reason for standard and magnum primers in the cartridge world (and of course match primers). Velocity variations are the tell tail signs here, and because black powder handgun deviations are relatively high to begin with, this is difficult to measure. To get to a control, we need to establish or arrive at an acceptable failure rate, lets say we want no more than 2 out of 50. This is arbitrary and depends on the shooter’s needs. The best idea I have for control on how uniform the ignition is from shot to shot is group size. Black powder can be finicky about this, and improper ignition will show up in a larger size of the group. That is the reason some folks have used duplex (black powder ignited by a small amount of smokeless) loads, and are illegal in many black powder matches. Hope this helps answer your question
@@oldranger3044 Did you try thin annealed brass to make some of these? I would lubricate the device before punching to make a smoother looking cap vs the wrinkled looking one. The other question is do you put powder in then cover with a paper wad to keep it held in place? I was thinking about some way to do DIY caps so you have a way to do so when other ammunition in unavailable in case of a SHTF scenario. I see there is a way after all. Good to know. I'll need to get a tool and practice making them. It could be a good source of income if the above actually happens.
@@abittwisted Good plans. Used t. To think that a flinter would be best if SHTF, but now the DIY caps put the cap lock guns in the same category. Have been using them lately with good results. I have some .003 copper sheet from hobby lobby that works and looks original, but I still like Al cans just because. I recently made a set up that works pretty good to remove the folds. About a half inch tapered hole and punch. Maybe with that and being more cautious about powder placement I’ll regain confidence I lost with a couple of chain fires. Newer tried paper disk, but might work. Having some thoughts about an up dated video on the subject. Appreciate your thoughts. Keep an oar in the water. O.R.
Great video but now, for some reason, I want blue raspberry sherbet. 😂😂
double up on the aluminium double layer caps
I really enjoyed this vid! Thanks for sharing. Great looking ‘58 by the way. Tom KC3QAC
Thanks Tom. Always encouraging to make something that others enjoy. Speaking of, I really enjoyed making percussion caps. Its also true that I never had a chain fire in over 40+ years till I started using them. Two in a week. Sloppy production I believe on my part. I think I know what happened. I don’t quit easy, and I like making them, so if I make the winter, I plan to keep at it. O.R.
Sir, are the Pietta nipples the same size and fit as the Uberti nipples?
I’ve not noticed much or any difference, this is with guns less than 15 years old. I just checked a pair of 51’s, end where the cap is started: P= .160, U= .158. They taper of course, and about where the cap ends, P=. .170. U= .170. Nipples on P’s are metric thread, U are English, and of course this matters not as far as cap fit, just not interchangeable. Hope this helps. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Thank you for this reply.
How old ranger I couldn’t keep the powder in the caps from the primal from reloader 22. I tried several times but all the stuff will run out. How did you keep the compound in a solid form so that it wouldn’t all come out?
Some use a 1-10 mix of shellac to acetone for the drop (or drops) that are added after the powder. Check you-tube for more info on that if you want. I'm new at this, but I just tried spray shellac (after the acetone has dried) to a bunch that I placed in a old primer (large rifle or pistol) container and that seems (so far) to keep the powder stuck in. Will see. Hope this helps. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 great idea. Thanks man
Just tried some that I had sprayed shellac. Pretty much none ignited the powder. Oh well, it looked good on paper, and the powder stayed in. I then tried some that were not sprayed shellac, and they did what they were supposed to. One fellow is using duco cement I believe. It isn't available locally, so I haven't tried it yet, but maybe that is the way to go. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 thanks my friend.
It is a rotten system of ignition. Most of the cap gasses escape outside the nipple.
Keep in mind these revolvers arent meant to be target shooters ,just to get a good shot off hand
I believe that's true. If you've attended any shoots like those held by the NMLRA at Friendship, In, there is lots of competition now with these style guns. Also Civil War type shooting competition, as well as National and International competition.
This is being done mostly on paper targets, and those shooters are pretty serious about scoring. In this regard, even thought the design is basically the same, it appears that the use has somewhat changed. O.R.
Are you using the size 10 cap making tool?
I believe so, the problem is that the one I have was made by Forester and is no longer available. I've had it for probably 30+ years, and don't remember what it was advertised as. The company making them now offers a #10, and 11, but I am not sure which one compares to mine. O.R.
I find to much Lube is more so not as accurate?
I used to only apply a small amount because I had the same thought. Currently I’m of the opinion that more is better than less. It seems that enough lube of the right consistency to keep the fouling soft the full length of the barrel helps with accuracy. O.R.
Will diy caps work with a traditions Kentucky rifle or Austrian Lorenz?
Not sure what an Austrain Lorentz is. I haven’t tried the DIY caps on rifles. If the rifle is a percussion piece and not a musket or flintlock, then there should be no problem as long as the cap is larger enough. Probably should go with the #11 maker. I believe the DIY caps will work better for rifles than pistols because fit is not as critical. So, as long as the Kentucky is percussion, I feel 99% chance they will work. O.R.
Thanks for the video bud. Try to put your lube in a bag when you make it and when your done cut a hole in the bag might not make a mess so bad.
Good tip!
Hey June 15th, that’s my birthday!
You need to get yourself a belated gift. Maybe something to compensate for the inability to purchase caps at a decent price (if at all). O.R.
I've made these caps an they do work ,But they go off an totally dissinagrate
Hi Mike. Rifle or handgun? If rifle, I’m wondering if it is because of a rather hefty load, extra primer powder or larger than normal nipple hole. Just my thoughts. O.R.
Really wish Canada wasn't communist and I could get the kit to make my own caps and primers. Can't even get the components to attempt to make it at home
I really am having trouble with making a response to that. Reminds me of when I was a kid and my state had outlawed fireworks because on occasion, an accident could occur, or at least that’s what we kids were told. Sure took the bang out of celebrating the 4th. Those that “might” have lost their finger, never made it back from Nam. There won’t be responsibility without the right to exercise it. O.R.
Too much chatter