7 Fan Theories That Were Debunked By The Developers
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- Опубликовано: 6 июл 2024
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Final Fantasy games have featured some fantastic stories, and many have deep and involved lore. Sometimes fans come up with interesting and plausible theories that extend the lore potential, but sometimes those same theories get completely shot down by the developers.
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Rinoa’s face becoming distorted as Squall’s mind gets fragmented during the time compression doesn’t make sense to me as proof that he was dead the whole time. It becomes apparent towards the end of the game that Squall’s fear was that he would be forgotten/forget his friends and be left all alone again. So her face was just the manifestation of those fears as his memories began to fragment.
I think the reason why so many people have glommed onto this one is that there is so much in that game that isn't explained very well at all. It seems even the developers don't have a solid idea on what everything meant.
Squall isn't dead the whole time but he is dying the whole time.
He dies at the end.
Time is all fucked up though, meaning he exists outside of time where there is no concept of past present and future, and they are all experienced at once endlessly through his memory constantly reconstructing scenes.
The same exact thing happens to the party at the end of FF7R, they break time and go to the same place at the end of time that Squall goes to in the cutscene, and in Rebirth they're trying to figure out how to get back home.
Silent Hill 2 the GOAT!!
@Vanity0666 Whatever you're smoking, I'll buy an once of it!
Well obviously it was debunked but i think youre missing the idea that ppls brains fire off in crazy ways that resemble deep dreaming when they are dying before the brain shuts down. If the theory had been true then there was never any time compression to begin with, his head made it all up and the weird abstract hellscape/purgatory would either be his mind struggling to cope with catharsis vs inconsistency of reality trying to find relief before his brain gave out, or the brain simply just taking a shit because it was times up, time to shut it down for god.
If the theory was correct. Trying to reconcile it against the events that had transpired from a logical perspective wouldnt make any other sense outside his brains shutting down and its not keeping up the dream.
I am actually replaying ff7 right now due to the release of Rebirth coming and just wanted to point out that the Highwind is docked in Junon for most of, if not, the entire game until the party…um…borrows it. I walked past it MANY times in Junon with Aerith in my party. The picture of her in front of it presents no issues at all to me..
That exact thought occurred to me when he said it shouldn't have happened. There's the scene when you come up to the airport the first time and it does the big show off of the highwind, but you don't get to collect it at that point. This is prior to crossing the sea.
Coupled with the image clearly has line markings on the tarmac that look straight out of the airport.
At worst, it's just promo art. Chrono Trigger's damn cover has a character casting a spell they don't do in the game, FFS.
@@baconatorrodriguez4651Marle casting fire? Yep :P
Yeah exactly. Like I get why people would think that artwork is odd, because the Highwind doesn't play a role until later on in the game, but it wouldn't surprise me if the art was created independently of story direction or if the Highwind intended to have a role in the story earlier on.
Yea she even mentions seeing it on the boat to Costa del sol after leaving junon and it's a date night response (she asks if you think she'll ever get a chance to ride on it). Very weird thing to say shouldn't be narratively possible
Squall being dead never made sense to me. After all by that point in the game the party had already gone back in time twice so nothing after that point was more fantastical
it always felt to me like someone just didnt want to engage with ffviii and came up with the laziest explanation for why they didn't understand it. like how people keep saying NORG comes out of nowhere, despite being mentioned in the school computer at the beginning of the game and the shumi tribe being just a normal part of the world.
@@gorimbaudA lot of FF fans love to convince themselves their bad fanficions are canon.
@@gorimbaud also before the end of discone you'd met the brothers summon and a real ghost
@@Roboshi2007 not to mention the real life witches. it's like they're surprised a game called final fantasy has fantasy elements.
@@gorimbaud I like how one of major complaints is "GF memory loss is out of nowhere", despite LITERALLY being the second line you access on your computer when you gain control of Squall in the classroom.
And teacher actually tells you to check the homework, and just... ignoring it... and then complaining you don't know things written in said homework is just ridiculous. I legit seen people complain that learning that is optional as if game forcing exposition was ever a good thing.
There is actually a way to bring Aerith back to life that involves a little bit of "time travel".
Start a new game.
But then, you'd just be Remake Sephiroth.
also a game shark
Or play Kingdom Hearts
Keeping in mind that Edea was possessed by Ultimecia but still seemed aware of the fact, I always think that Edea recognised Squall and made an attempt to gain control in the moment the icicle was fired. She'd attempt to blunt the effect so Squall wouldn't be killed.
I think, if the theory was true, Ultimecia's mind and memories would be so warped by centuries in grief that she doesn't even remember Squall. She still has the desire to achieve time compression, but has forgotten why she ever wanted it in the first place.
I just think she hit him in the shoulder on purpose so he could be taken in for questioning
Since the next we see of Squall is him being interrogated about SeeD, it's clear that Squall was just rendered unconscious (and being the de facto leader of the assassination party against Edea, it was a necessity) in order to properly questioned.
or better yet, in this universe an attack like that woulnd't kill, it just causes 5000 damage and after a phoenix down you're fine.
I never understood how people could believe it hit him anywhere but the shoulder.
Just fire up a RUclips channel that shows the fmv and it clearly shows it hit the shoulder.
I replayed the original game several times on my PS2 that I knew for a fact that it was the shoulder.
Only blind or people only with a brainstem couldn't see it.
What annoys me is that a writer or something said that if they ever did a remake of FFVIII they'd consider working in the Squall is dead theory rather than Rinoa is Ultimecia theory.
The twist of the character died and everything after is just a pointless hallucination/dream is the worst plot twist.
At least with the Rinoa is Ultimecia theory it adds something and can be thematically worked with.
I really do hope that the Rezero theory that Emilia is Satella pans out. The author has denied it but he's repeatedly said he'll not give honest answers about spoilers. And there's more to than theory than there was for R=U.
Agreed. Rinoa being Ultimecia is FAR more interesting. At least then you have a villain with some actual emotional resonance and relevance to the characters.
Honestly, if Rinoa accidentally killed Squall, and she grieves so much that she gets in denial by becoming the all powerful Ultimecia, and that her plan was to use time compression as a way to save Squall from dying (Not knowing what time compression does), that way you could combine both theories as well as changing the theories so it could fit into the plot of FFVIII. It would’ve been the best of both worlds. Have the theories fit into the game’s story, while still keeping the game’s plot intact.
@@egateqa1351 Would be a nice change where we switch to Rinoa as she goes down that path to become Ultimecia or we play as Squall after she brings him back. Finding out about what happened through him as well as the possible consequences of Rinoa's actions.
Popular theory that got shot down: Vincent Valentine is Sephiroth's father. Theory was supported by the fact that Sephiroth looks nothing like Hojo and that Vincent was literally simping after Sephiroth's mom around the time he was conceived. Replace Vincent's hair with the lush silver locks and you have a Sephiroth lookalike.
I do like the idea, but I don't think Vincent had been experimented on before being put on the coffin, so if he was the father, the only significance would be dramatic irony.
Another fan theory I've always held in the back of my head is whether Marlene is actually an Ancient in FF7, her ability to sense Aerith's presence in the Lifestream both when it stopped Meteor's descent over Midgar at the end of the original game and again in Advent Children when it purifies the people's Geostigma was never really explained and always struck me as kind of odd especially considering how limited her interaction with Aerith was.
I always chalked it up to children being more in tune with the Lifestream but lose their ability over time because no one trained them to strengthen it
Yeah, she seems to have something going on in Remake.
That's likely more because Aerith is reaching out to them, not Marlene reaching out to Aerith.
Marlene being an ancient then raises the question of who her mom is. Dyne clearly isn't an ancient, and all of the ancients we see or hear about in game are women, so it would have to be through Marlene's mother, someone we never hear about.
Interesting head canon, but it raises many more questions that, if true, wouldn't make sense (namely, if Marlene's mom was an ancient, or even thought to be an ancient, knowing that Shinra was in Corel, why wouldn't they focus on her versus Ifalna, and even if they did, why is there no reports of another ancient who did at the hands of Hojo?)
Also, additional info reveals the the Ancients would open up elements of the life stream around different parts of the planet, and one of those areas was Aerith's house and the church, hence the flowers you don't see anywhere else in otherwise desolate Midgar. Since Marlene spent time there, that is likely the connection (as you alluded to). Additional lore also says that the Ancients were parasitized by Jenova, who was able to read their minds and form entities to trick them and then destroy them. Perhaps that parasitism was passed down to Ifalna and then Aerith, and their longer-standing interactions with Marlene allowed her to read Aerith's mind and understand the Lifestream well before anyone else of the group could/did
That's a good point. Why only Marlene and not the other children? Something is up with Marlene or maybe it's an over sight that the other children don;t see things.
Although most of the time is just the fans overthinking things I think is pretty neat when a story or characters have implications or potential that even the creators didn't even consider
Nah
The squall being dead theory never made any sense to me. Like it's a fantasy world why wouldn't weird things happen.
The Squall being dead theory seemed less like a serious take on the story and more a heuristic for comically critiquing the writing in VIII. It's not that weird things won't happen in a fantasy world, it's that the connective tissue for the plot is pretty thin in VIII and you could come up with this being some comical delusion of a hallucinating dying man as a farcical alternate take on the story.
it is a little convenient when a spaceship full of aliens just happens to be there when our protagonist leaps off into the unknown with a limited air supply. Even pointing whatever flavor text is there doesn't make that plot point less ridiculous. People love to pedantically dissect the plot in this way.
And the people forget that in every FF in an point of the story, the things go so high, like in ff4 when you literally goes to the moon to defeat a ancient alien being
Let's just let Squall and Rinoa have their happy ending. Enough protagonists in this series have bittersweet or sad as fuck endings.
Yeah but man-child incel internet randos obsessed with 30 year-old video games are clearly better storytellers.
That’s really just 10 on. All the games before that (the really good ones) for the most part all had pretty happy endings.
But I agree, the ending for 8 was really pretty good. Let’s just let those two be.
Getting to that so called happy ending was not pleasing at all. Those 2 theories work a heck of a lot better then the cringy story in og FF8. It would make FF8 one of the best games with that story. imo they can make that the remake and Rinoa finds a way to make it work and that's where the original FF8 comes in where she gets her happy ending with Squall.
@@swilliams21231 FF6 is not a happy ending. It's bleak and full of destruction but the object of that destruction is gone. It's like rebuilding after a hurricane or tornado or a war has gone thru. FF7 had an uncertain ending until the Advent movie came out assuring that life continued on because we only had that odd ending scene with Nanaki and his kids and it saying 500 years later to go by. The rest were happy endings.
@@NAzo. ff16 wasnt a happy one with Clive reverse tanning on a beach
It’s frustrating to me that the creator of FF8 liked squall is dead more than Rinoa being Ultimecia… since all “X was dead all along” theories inherently rid their stories of any meaning or stakes for the sake of a shock.
While Ultimecia and Griever being Rinoa and Squall would not only solve a few weird plot beats, it would actually make the final villain fit the theme the game was going for.
Ultimecia = Rinoa would turn one of the most forgettable villains in the series into a fascinating and tragic figure, and a potential remake incorporating this could really explore and expand on it. I've always thought the explanation "nah, she's just an evil witch" to be extremely lame.
No it wouldn’t. It literally makes no sense and is impossible.
Ultimecia is NOT Rinoa and also she is NOT from another timeline, she is from Squall’s future timeline so it is impossible for her to be Rinoa as Sorceresses live normal lifespans and she was born in that future.
We all know the theory is right, despite what they say.
No he didn’t like it
@@martinj3239cope does not make your baseless theory right
The problem with using Griever for the Rinoa=Ultimecia theory is that the game specifically states that Ultimecia is drawing on Squall's concept of what the "ultimate GF" would be from his mind in the battle, its not something she's discovered and named during her lifespan, it was born in that very moment
This is blatantly made up.
During the entire Ultimecia fight, she never ONCE mentions Squall, his mind, or anyone else in the party. Squall doesn't even have to participate in the fight.
Here is a full play through of all four of that fight's stages, including both of the Griever fights and all dialogue as proof:
ruclips.net/video/t7lYmhmmenE/видео.html
@ArcaneEther in the English version, in the Japanese version she is very explicit about it, taking straight from the official wiki:
"Griever is not only a symbol of the virtues Squall values, but is also Squall's interpretation of the ultimate Guardian Force. During the final battle, Ultimecia draws Griever from Squall's mind, bringing Squall's perceptions of the being into existence to fight the party. This is made more explicit in the Japanese version where Ultimecia claims to summon the one entity Squall views as the most powerful whose power would increase the stronger Squall envisions it, meaning this manifestation of Griever is powerful purely because of his importance as a symbol in Squall's mind."
@@kurosakikun96 Sounds to me like Squall needed to be thinking REALLY hard about the Stay Puffed Marshmallow Man in that moment.
@@GoeTeeks
Wouldn't help, she wasn't summoning it from his *thoughts*, but his *mind*, including all of his memories and his subconscious.
@@kurosakikun96 Well dang, this is why I fukkin hate English localization. They always cut out for absolutely no reason or alter the dialogue or worse censor it
At the lifespan bit. No. Sorceresses have normal lifespans. Which means Rinoa could not have lived long enough to be Ultimecia. Also, Griever was taken from Squall's mind, not from Rinoa.
I've always seen the similarities between Ultimecia and Rinoa as them being mirrors of each other and wasn't meant to be deeper than that. Their designs and colours are mirrors of each other, extravagant and sensual red and black vs simple and conservative blue and white. Their personalities and goals are mirrored, Rinoa wanting to free people from tyranny vs Ultimecia becoming the ultimate tyrant. The ultimate difference between them being that Rinoa has people who love her, Ultimecia doesn't or possibly never had anyone to love her.
I also find the R=U theory undermines Ultimecia's own tragedy. If the speech she gave while controlling Edea is anything to go by hatred for Sorceresses was so intense it basically doomed any Sorceress to break and become monsters in self-defense. Picture what Rinoa went through when they found out she was a new Sorceress but magnify it to the entire world, it wouldn't be a surprise if some fought back for being persecuted for doing nothing wrong. I see Ultimecia as a "fine, I'll become the monster you call me!" type character taken to the extreme, I sometimes wonder if Ultimecia is even her own name.
DFFOO fully debunks it as Ultimecia actually tells the heroes her backstory. She was born a sorceress, and though she did nothing wrong society despised her. She was never loved, never had friends, she lived her life in isolation and dis pear. She sought time compression as it would be a world where only she could truly exist, she would be alone but free from a world that hated her for her whole life. Throughout her stories she refers to her life as not being allowed to exist, therefore she will end everyone else’s
As far as the faces matching up, it should also be pointed out that FF8 has a very anime art style for characters. And in anime, there's only a handful of face shapes. Every young, pretty girl has the same face shape. Identifying features come in the form of hair style, eye and hair color and clothes.
@@matthewsalyer9804And all of that is just stuff you can already gather from FF8 itself.
@@matthewsalyer9804to be fair, Opera Omnia also said that Tactics & 12 aren’t in the same universe, so take OO with a grain of salt. Also, Opera Omnia’s not canon.
@@fattiger6957 Despite that, Rinoa's face is distinct enough. Look at character portraits, even ignoring hair, you can't really mix up her face with Selphie, and any older woman has smaller cheeks and eyebrows than Ri. Edea is the closest face and kinda looks like a more mature version of her, but still not close enough.
Could you do a video based on Ultimecia’s origins ? I feel like a lot of fans don’t know much about her
And thus began the Final Fantasy Origins Series for each numbered title
Well, the game itself made Ultimecia a mystery. There can be some theories made from the paintings in her castle. Like she looked like the Red clothes lady before becoming a sorceress, she was born in a royal family, etc. But those are theories. Not the official history of the character.
Ultimecia is Rinoa, or rather Squalls interpretation of what she would have looked like if she had existed. 😉
@@disenfranchised2.073 If who had existed?
Literally first day of writing class during my animation degree, "Do not tell stories that ends in "It's all just a dream"". This applies to coma dreams, visions before death, you're already dead etc.
The only way one should write a dream story that matters is if the dream world is an actual world that exists and has concrete and lasting meaning. And this dream world should have established rules so that you can't just write random things happening like what would happen in a dream.
Dude thanks for this, we never really got deep in to our writing class back when I was stil taking my animation degree. I'm writing this short story where the protagonist gets to go back in time (or isekai'd) in his teen years but slightly different version. Kinda like a parallel universe but with slight difference from the original. I'm having trouble on how to end it cause I don't want it to end in a generic "it's all just a dream" setting, I want it to have a lasting impact that's grounded in reality.
I feel like The Legend of Zelda Link’s Awakening is probably one of the few times this was done right.
@@JacobJohnson-lh4gx People just have to look at their theories from a writers perspective sometimes. If it were the intended way, why do you have to jump through so many hoops to arrive at the conclusion? They start with their conclusion and then work their way backwards but that's not how writing works.
@@wesleyblake6249Eh. Not really.
I mean that was basically the entire premise of FFX, Tidus is a dream. The Zanarkand he lived in was a dream. The most bittersweet part of the entire game is when Yuna realized it right at the end and chooses that moment to express her feelings. The entire game was a series of well placed gut punches for Tidus.
Black feathers around Rinoa when she jumps into Squall’s arms. She is Ultimecia
I quite like the Knights of the Round theory, if I was in charge of the Remake team I might have given the summons a back story. It might link them to the Cetra but make them almost as old as them as if the relationship that the Cetra had with their homeworld gave birth to the summons as they might have been aware of beings like Jenova or were just being prepared for something back coming their way one day.
They did already confirm that the Cetra used Shiva's powerful to freeze Jenova, so they were at least used in the fight
@@MrGBH They did? Was this in a side quest or a developer interview or something?
It was definitely stated at some point that the great glacier was created by Shiva
Even in the early days of FF7, I suspected Aeris' revival was untrue, as everyone had a story about how to do it, none of them matched up, and there was never any direct proof from a more reputable source like a gaming magazine. And as hard as it is to say, I'm glad Aeris stays dead - her death and sacrifice made for a far more impactful story than her resurrection could ever bring.
Aeris' death was heartbreaking, I really didn't expect that. When I played the game back then I was also looking for a way to keep her alive. But same as your experience... Different stories, nothing seemed right and the more "realistic" sounding versions seemed to be glitches or bugs, but not intended features or storylines which avoided her death. It definitely was good for the game. I will never forget that.
@@Patient-957i think thats how jenova arrived on earth
@@Brkmp_ Jenova's back-story isn't exactly clear to most, so I'll explain the key points that are explained or the player is informed about.
Jenova arrives on Earth roughly 2000 years prior to the events of Final Fantasy VII, in the Northern Crater
Jenova's first infected victim was a woman, hence her lady-like appearance (if messed up) and begins to infect the many Cetra and mutate them
Jenova is contained at the Northern Crater, but the planet refuses to heal, as Jenova is causing damage to the flow of the Lifestream
The ancient Cetra cannot eliminate Jenova and are nearly completely killed, while the humans they lived with flourished and survived
The Shin-Ra corporation find it roughly 30 to 35-ish years prior to the start of Final Fantasy VII
The first successful experiment was Sephiroth
That's everything that we're told. The rest is from sources I have no clue or knowledge of.
its AERITH
@@GooseGumlizzard I'm from Germany, she is called Aeris in our localization. I hope you don't mind if I stick with that :)
Those darn ruins 😂 I loved and hated it so much because if noctis would just stop trying to roll after every jump but the satisfaction of walking out with all the rare items in tow after 6 hours was always worth it 😂
Actually is was worth it. First, it was a different content from what we usually are presented. Then, once you were deep in, it felt like a real deep cave, like lonely and isolated. It was amazing
The people that wanted Aerith back did not understand the game's message, we were kids back then.
I wanted her back because of her abilities, she was the only legitimate support unit who's limit breaks are basically pure support while everyone else's weren't.
I just used a cheat device to get her back into the party.
Similar to all the apocryphal ways to bring back Aerith in FFVII, I remember a bunch of ridiculously convoluted and difficult methods in the rumor mill about reviving/getting General Leo, Siegfried, and/or Banon to join the party permanently in FFVI and the evidence used to back up all those methods is that there are still one or two (cannot remember the exact number) open spaces for character sprites in the roster screen.
The old SNES cart has two open spaces. One play through I maxed out my money because I thought I might be able to outbid the guy at the auction house for the Imp Robot.
Cloud isn’t cloud. The real cloud dies in the climax of the flashback. And a seph clone who saw the whole thing was inspired by his bravery. So he went on to live in his place out of respect for what he did.
And the best part…everyone I’ve ever told this theory to tries to refute it…but it’s too muddied. And they can’t.
Likely this was a 'catch-all' in case someone found a bug to get them into the party. This happened with summon spaces in one of the games (I forget which): There's one more space than is ever filled in normal playthroughs. Devs have said it was put there so the game wouldn't crash if some unforseen bug allowed 2 normally mutually exclusive summons to be obtained at once, iirc.
Plus another rumor (or theory) that was debunked this year was that Basch was originally set as the main character of FFXII but Matsuno debunked that in April.
Plus, Vaan was originally worn down and rugged until they redesigned him, and then redesigned him again after his mocap/voice actor came in during 2002 (1 year in FFXII’s development).
I can see why people dislike him but he is relevant considering he is a direct foul of Ashe, with both their struggles with the past, freedom and family (also he indirectly was an anchor to her from the Occuria’s control), and him bringing the crew together. Plus with how he relates to other characters with their individual struggles like Ashe.
I can see why people want to believe that. Vaan is the most boring FF protag in the history of the series. He may as well have been a plank of wood and the game wouldn't have been any different.
@@fattiger6957 I always thought that his brother (the one we play as in the prologue) would have made for a better main character. He was one of the ones "betrayed" during the rescue attempt giving him a more personal connection to Basch and I liked what little we saw of him in the prologue.
and as nice and pretty as penelo was, she was just too damn vanilla...
18:00 she literally helped get on the elevator before the march section during your first time going through the area plus you can revisit the area multiple times with the highwind waiting there. There are multiple times it would make sense to have the concept art.
The same rumors about reviving Aeris also circulated about Leo the game before, which made me skeptical of all of them and just accepted that she was gone
Though also being a longer veteran having also played IV, character deaths weren’t anything new to me. And it’s so cynical but I recall at the time my first thought being “I hope I didn’t just lose all her materia”
FFIV does SO many fake-outs, only like one party member actually has a proper passing? Now thinking of it, FF7 does a bunch too, it has ONE character death that's final and tons near-death or actual die-but-return moments for others.
@@KasumiRINA for sure, lots of fake out deaths, but when you have the Tellah is dead for real, Leo is dead for real, and at least my first play of VI, Shadow and Cid were dead as well as being used to party members permanently leaving the group even without dying, it just didn't hit me the same as others.
@@anthonydelfino6171 yeah, I am used to Bioware RPGs and half of BG1 party is dead at the start of 2. And your mentor right after TUTORIAL.
I still say that Stranger of Paradise gives off the vib of being a person inside one of those Renaissance fairs.
I honestly never heard any of these outside of reviving Aerith & potentially replacing her if you collect all the mini soldiers in the game to trade for a robot that had all of her limit breaks.
It's worth mentioning that in Remake, they seem to have incorporated that idea, of Shiva being the one who froze Jenova!
Rinoa being Ultimecia has always been a super appealing theory because it works so much thematically : she becomes a witch, she loses Squall because he dies of old age, the grief makes her lose her mind ( her GF is called GRIEVER for christ's sake ) , she wants to GO BACK IN TIME because she misses her long lost love, it just fits so much.
This actual Ultimecia we had was just a witch trying to prevent her own prophesized death, which makes it kinda overkill that she would need to perform a Time Compression to do that.
I'm never going to subscribe to the ''Squall is Dead'' theory. A lot of people say it makes sense because the story got weird after disc 2 and started going off the rails, but stuff was weird at the start of the game! Summons, the whole ''Tomb of the Unknown King'' quest, going back in time with Laguna and company, Gerogero the president's body double, ect. Him being dead just seems like a cheap cop out.
the Griever ultimicia thing has always been one of those sticking points in my head that made me go, "something else is going on here" but its never quite made me go "this is rinoa" either, feels more like one of those sort of half finished, pieces of peoples ideas things.
I think thats kind of a cool aspect of the game though. It's art afterall, which can be interpreted however you want, as long as the buildingblocks for theories to be possible/likely are there. Even if the game wasnt written with this theory in mind, the possibility of it being true are very high in my opinion, doesnt matter if it turned out this way by accident or not :D
Actually, Ultimecia summoning Griever has a simple explanation: she Drew it from Squall.
12:35 in my opinion Gilgamesh should have been "The Stranger of Paradise". Could have been SE take for making a KH series for their IPs.😮
Oh my God that would be amazing.
Or how about this?
A Square Enix rep has a chat with a Dreamworks rep on an escalator and they decide to create a new IP called "Empire Souls" that serves as a marriage between Dreamworks' animated films and the Dragon Quest series. Journey through the Kingdom of Duloc and Far Far Away with Shrek and Donkey, the jungles and savannahs of Madagascar, a chicken farm in the countryside of Yorkshire, the seven seas with the adventurer Sinbad, the Valley of Peace in Ancient China with Po the Dragon Warrior, and so much more! :D
I'm still convinced that most of the post launch story for FF15 was taken from fan theories.
I loved the FFVIII fan theories especially the Rinoa is Ultimecia one. I really wish they'd give the game it's much deserved remake and toy with that theory because it's a really interesting and bittersweet take.
No you just want them toy with it just to legitimize a dumb theory, nothing more.
What I would like is them taking the scenes and making sure that they kill the theories like clearly showing the ice sticking out of squall's shoulders and maybe getting rid of anything that could be misinterpreted that created those dumb theories in the first place.
@@valor1omega They need to show Squall having a wound as he is recovering, basically do the same thing they show after the intro in original, only after he's hit by Edea. They also need to make Rinoa being over Seifer more clearly, as that fueled the theory - the dialogue at Ragnarok where she dismisses him was cut. main thing I'd want for FFVIII is a remake of the entire combat system, and I like junctions myself, but balancing needs to be shuffled as right now you're either exploiting game and become OP or are stuck in "no use magic, draw" mindset and feel weak. I dunno, make grinding less damaging and more useless, kinda like in FF13 they don't get levels only CP from fights, while character skills are limited by progress, that's a very streamlined system.
@@valor1omega you must be fun at parties lmao
I never thought the Rinoa-Ultimecia theory was true, but it would be an interesting basis for a sequel to FF8. It would require alternate timelines/futures and time loops, but that's already basically part of FF8.
It would fit the themes and plot of the game perfectly. I think its almost definitely something they thought of but then abandoned early. Its a very dark and emotional thought that our beloved heroes are destined to become twisted evil versions of themselves, in an endless cycle of love and loss.
If they do it in the Remake I'm totally finde with it. I'm just fed up with people saying it's already in the original.
@@Shiftarus I don't think they even abandoned it early. I'm fairly convinced at least one of the main writers of FF8 had it in mind the whole time, even if it was never part of the plot officially. Think of it like how Nojima was thinking of how Shinra in FFX-2 would go on to become the basis of FFVII Shinra - it's similar to R=U in that it may not fit establish "facts", but nonetheless you can see how it's narratively constructed with that in mind, and as a result simply put gets a lot closer to the actual heart of the matter of what FF8's story conveys than being in avid denial of it.
I still think Ultimecia is a version of Rinoa who lost Squall and performed time shenanigans to save Squall all while losing her memories due to Squall's Guardian Force and in the end they undid the future where Squall was lost.
I never believed that Squall was dead that’s so weird. Man people really over thought it.
In Dissidia, Ultimecia says "Let's dance" to Squall, and uses Rinoa's weapon. Pretty sure the people over at SE like this theory now. It would fill in so many blanks in the story, and make so much sense at the same time. I feel as if the directer who commented on it being false came back later and said something about it maybe being the intent of the other writers, but I can't find it now, maybe I was hallucinating.
Oh you’re definitely not hallucinating, because I know exactly what you’re talking about. ruclips.net/video/k8asSQorSng/видео.htmlfeature=shared
Weirdly, RUclips keeps removing my replies for some reason. Still, it’s surprising that the Triple Fs (Final Fantasy Fans) keep forgetting that Yoshinori Kitase later changed his mind on the Rinoa = Ultimecia theory.
Or it could be that she knows how connected he was and uses it as a weapon against him even if he doesn't remember it.
Yeah, you’re right on that one. Kitase later said that maybe Ultimecia being Rinoa was Nomura & Nojima’s idea, since they also wrote FFVIII. And since the Dissidia games tends to reference Rinoa through Ultimecia’s attacks, it’s likely her being Ultimecia isn’t a theory per se, but more of an implication.
It’s why I prefer the Ultimecia Theory than the Squall is Dead theory because it might be implied, while the Leon’s dead theory makes less sense.
FFVIII: has plot which is more like a pipe dream
Someone of the internet: Is it actually a pipe dream?
If I had a dollar every time I hear theory about "Protagonist is dead" I would be a millionaire right now.
Is this a re-upload? I remember a video about this theory and other fan theories on this channel. I watched it over the last year but it may have been an older video
I don't know much about Yoshinori Kitase, but he just doesn't seem like he would be very fun to talk to at parties
Real theory: Kain was never hypnotized, he was just in love with Rosa and went along with what Golbez intended to do so that he could justify his actions.
It's been so long since I played the OG PS1 FF7, but Aerith's death back then left such a huge scar on me that to this day it still has a grip on my heart.
.
Even after all this years it summoned a grief and sadness out of nowhere when I saw this video's cutscenes.
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I... I don't know if I could bear to see her die again on the ps5 remake.
Pity, because having a version of Rinoa be the final boss would have been more compelling storytelling IMO
Regarding the Rinoa = Ultimecia theory, Ultimecia is from many generations in the future but I don't recall any dialogue in the game that confirms or suggests that sorceress's have longer life spans.
Hold up, despite what they said, the isekai theory for SoP isn't fully out. In particular, during the Gilgamesh dlc, the bomb monster will tell you that despite her claim of being from Cornelia, there has never been someone named Neon born there. This leaves a big question of where she came from, and also, despite Jack, Ash, Jed, and Sophia being part of the Stranger project, the only other Lufinian we see is Nil, who has a very different look to them, suggesting they may not actually be Lufinian, but also that Jack is NOT the same Garland the moogle of dissidia and Gilgamesh know.
I learned on the school bus that all you have to do is hold L1 + R2 + Square + Circle on the title screen. I tried this for YEARS
I heard way back when the game first came out that Aeris could be revived by a hidden cave in the Corel Valley, this is the area near the City of the Ancients. There looks like there could be a climbable vine and cave entrance in the upper right corner of the map that could have been used for something. If there was no way to revive legitimately her then I theorize that cave could have been used to recover Kujata if missed or an original idea for its location but was scrapped.
Imagine saying you want something lifelike and then have the characters riding giant chickens and fighting monsters.
Jack's identity was clear to me from the trailers alone.
Bullshit. That one was cleverly hidden until at least mid game.
Ultimecia being Rinoa makes too much sense for me; the themes of loss, time, and trauma changing a person are too prevalent for it to not be the case.
Final Fantasy Union: “This theory has proven to be incorrect. But then again, maybe it’s true.”
I think I made this comment in one of your previous videos but were I in charge of remaking VIII I'd take the route of multiple endings based on player choices, where something like Rinoa becoming Ultimecia is a possibility if the players choices or actions lean towards it. Something like that would be fitting for a game with time travel and possible paralel universes.
My Fan Theory: Squall and Rinoa are half siblings.
Laguna did hook up with Julia in the hotel room (as is common during war times) and Rinoa is older than squall and looks like Laguna.
Me: "I have a Theroy."
Kitase: "NO!"
Me: Ok!"
I remember the Rinoa = Ultimcia discussions on Gamefaqs waaaay back in the day. That got intense.
Those Aerith revive theories back in the geocity days brings back memories too. The dawn of the internet.
Aerith's death was a twist done right. It hurt if you didn't know it was coming already. You liked her as your healer, often were rooting for her and Cloud to boink, and even got to go on that date. Then suddenly this character we invested our time into was just killed, permanently. No hint it was going to happen.
@@Kmmlc I'm glad i was able to live through that moment spoiler free.
Id' love an FF VII mod where you do the Disc 1 level 99 thing, but Aerith dies and Pac and Biggie emerge from the lifestream to join your party.
I was maybe 14 or 15 when I first played Final Fantasy 6 to completion. I didn't have internet access yet, and didn't need anyone to encourage me to believe that Gogo was Daryl. It's been so long, and I couldn't tell you what specifically made me think it, but I really did think all this time that Gogo and Daryl were the same person. Didn't need anyone to encourage me or give me the idea either.
Im shocked the "ffx is a prequel to the ff7 world" wasnt there
Just goes to show how stupid that theory is.
I like the very niche theory that (assuming that VII and X/X-2 are in the same universe), that Jenova is actually Sin. The people of Spira, realizing that they couldn't actually ever get rid of Sin, used Al-Bed machina to blast it off into space, where it drifted for who knows how long, before encountering Gaia and the Cetra.
I've always seen it as, if they're going to infer/allude to something so directly- they *should* be related. Like if we found a keyblade as a weapon that refers to Sora in Tactics Ogre or something. We could infer that the TO universe is one of the world's the darkness consumed.
However I guess it can be fairly dismissed as SE is always referencing their past titles. So it's hard to make a case of direct relation.
#RadaRada
@@arosonomy well, in Remake they seem to confirm it, as in Shinra HQ, you can come across a photo of the first group of Shinra Executives, and one of them is clearly wearing Shinra's (the Al-Bed) mask from X-2, which seems to indicate that there is in fact some link between Spira and Gaia; it could also be Nomura fucking with people again.
@@KngHrts2 I had forgotten I'd seen that! (Havent played remake, just some reveiws and theory stuff) At the time I don't think I put the two together but looking back I feel a little silly for it not clicking 😆
Iirc it was nothing more than an Easter egg.
Iirc a dev even debunked it.
Different planets all together in fact.
Might be playing kingdom hearts too much as that garbage game combined crap that can easily be mistaken by normies.
Too bad 7 isn't
What if Umaro is Daryll wearing a yeti costume?
Since I played the remake of ff7 up until this day I'm thinking Knights of the round on the remake on how will it look like
Probably like FF14 which is the most epic representation of the summons.
My cousin came to the conclusion that Gogo was Darill in 1995 i would never have thought that 😂
FFVIII
I think Ultimecia is related to Hyne in some way. It would fit the concept of having to fight a god like in typical Final Fantasy fashion, not just some random regular sorceress from the future with no backstory. You name Griever after the Edea fight and Griever splits off from the top portion of Ultimecia during the final boss battle and runs away, just like the lore states Hyne did back when the humans cornered Hyne eons before. The half Hyne gave to the humans had weak magic. Ultimecia is looking for Ellone, who mind-warped Squall to go back to the past, but whose magic wasn't strong enough (weak magic) to change the past. Ellone has no explanation for why she has her powers, and she's not a sorceress. She is the "empty shell," or Squall is actually the empty shell, either on his own or by proxy of Ellone's mind-meld. When you talk to the old man NPC in Balamb, he hints (paraphrasing) to the fact that the other half of Hyne might be looking directly at [the people Squall's facing]. Why would the NPC do that? "Hmmm."
I could also work it as it is Hyne the entire time trying to put zes whole piece back together, or Ultimecia is a normal sorceress who was able to figure it all out and try to capture the full power of Hyne, which is why she needed Ellone to do the time compression. But with no backstory to Ultimecia and barely any about Hyne, and with a game full of way too much subtly that lends itself to endless questions, I can also conclude that FFVIII simply was poorly written, and time spent on theories about its lore are never going to be accurate.
The big thing that wouldn't fit is that Ultimecia is still required per the sorceress code to go back and transfer her powers to another sorceress - in this case Edea - before she dies, so that doesn't eliminate Hyne's existence. Every time I think about replaying FFVIII for a deep dive, I tell myself it's just me trolling myself because a lot of the plot makes no sense, and maybe it's really true the the end boss is just some throwaway boss with no real purpose other than being the badie at the end.
I like to think that the Time Compression is Hyne's plan and he manipulates Ultimecia to execute it in an effort to get rid of all of his "tools" at once, so only he exists in the end. Ultimecia's last phase is actually Hyne with Ultimecia (the lower part) junctioned to him.
@Jester_Jean Yeah, that fits the "possession" angle that sorceressess were given the power to have by Hyne in the first place. It would be him wiping out his tools as you say, putting him back into the original position before humans multiplied in numbers large enough to supplant him. But if we say Hyne was defeated, why does Ultimecia have to go back into the past and transfer her powers to Edea, if we say that sorceress powers dissapear because Hyne would truly be dead?
Edea said she was visited twice by sorceressess, once when she was little and later due to Ultimecia as an adult. So we could say the OG one was the real deal and the second one was Ultimecia trying to alter the past. But if the past WAS altered by defeating Ultimecia in the future..*ugh*...it can go on and on. Can really get a headache trying to figure out this plot, because it's probably much simpler, it's just that the story is just poorly written.
@@commenter6763 truly. As much as I love it I can see the poor writing and some of it is due cut content also, or so I've heard. This game would benefit the most from a remake I'd say
@Jester_Jean Cut content. That's likely true, too. I played it for the first time just a few weeks ago. Saw some RUclips comments (so unverified) that they needed room for the ending credit FMV, so they cut out access to all of the towns. Man, if they just had another year or two to polish things up and maybe go with six discs. They wouldn't have space issues in today's time. Pretty ambitious project, and I still really liked the game. I'd love to see a remake where they could tell the full story that they really wanted to tell if not for deadlines and space issues.
Idc how many times SE shuts it down, Rinoa is Ultemcia! They showed it in game when Squall asked to see Rinoa..
My favorite one is that Squall is... Whatever...
Anyone: Kitase, is this theory true?
Kitase: It's bullshit, all of them!
I got an item for Aerith long after she died, I think it was a limit materia.
Same, did that on my first playthrough.
The Ultamecia(sp) one was very fascinating!!
To get KOTR in FF7R, you'll have to do 13 cat sidequests.
with the knights of the round, there is one Trial in FF14 that i wonder if it was themed around Knights of the Round seeing as there is a part where the boss goes untargetable for a long period and you are dealing with several Knights that do various attacks.
Making Rinoa as Ultimecia would have been a great idea story-wise. If they ever consider remaking FF8 (which I think they should), I hope they would incorporate that idea. Also, Squall being dead is a load of BS. Dude got impaled through the shoulder, which isn't that lethal (compare that to Cloud getting stabbed by Sephiroth which is a lot more fatal but still survived)
Clouf got stabbed in a non-lethal part of his body. Plus Cloud had main character plot armor, since he had not Jenova cells infused in him at that moment of the story. So, he was a regular human
Man, nearly all of Squall's center mass was icicle lol
Such a bad idea
Shall we dance?
No surprise that No.1 would be Aerith's Death... I wonder what the end of Rebirth will bring....
One interesting thing that I think is worth noting regarding Kitase saying "we wanted to really take another look at that, look at human life, and [make people] realize they don't come back." The way he says it it sounds like they thought this was some new direction, but literally the last three FF games included such things. Tellah dies in IV (against the main antagonist for most of the game no less), Galuf dies in V, and general Leo dies in VI (as well as Cid most of the time). Hell, the theme of loss is incredibly prevalent in general in VI that it dwarfs Aerith's death by comparison. That doesn't mean that her death wasn't impactful, of course.
I always pronounced her name "Ultimisha" and I guess that's how it's pronounced in Dissidia? First time ever hearing her name as Ulti-mi-see-ah tbh lol
The other sorceresses don't have angel wings, but Rinoa and Ultimecia do. That's one of the bigger reasons I support the theory.
Rinoa is Ultimecia insofar as they're both aspects of Hyne, the god that's been scattered across time that Ultimecia's trying to resurrect.
Final Fantasy 7 was inspired by the death of sakaguchi hironobu's mother, having a way to resurrect Aerith would undermine the whole point of the story: coping with grief.
Not because I thought you could save her, but I did a FFVII run where I farmed the casino until I could get Omnislash before that fight even occurred, just for the satisfaction of one-shotting Sephinova after the cutscene.
Squall being dead gotta be one of the dumbest theories ever...
I was very fond of the idea that Cloud and Rufus were half brothers (As in, president Shinra is Cloud's dad) because they have a cool opposite themes going on (One poor, one rich, one wears dark the other wears white, one fights with ranged weapons while the other is Melee, etc...) but I think it was debunked recently as well , it was some random guy that went to explore the mountains and never came back IIRC.
Eh my headcanon is that Ultimecia is an *ALTERNATE TIMELINE* future version of Rinoah. It just makes more sense for me and she feels less left field when shes mentioned.
The Pit of Eos fan theory was so dang good, they really should have rolled with it. Perona77 added life to a game rife with disappointment.
Ive been watching a lot of Maxamililondude a lot lately and he keeps theorizong KoTR as Cetra and i dont have the heart to tell him :(
I know its probably not true but my own head cannon is in ff6 Shadows friend was Baram and they stole 1mil gill from a train jugging by that kind of wealth probably hit up the emperor that leads them to being chased and Baram being stabbed and he even ask Clyde(Shadow) to finish him off because the horrible thing THEY will do to him if hes caught but Clyde cant and runs away leaving Baram to his fate. Well what if the torture was the first use of the control crown to change your identity to something more loyal then making them the first ever magic infused human and that went horrible making our favorite little madman Kefka Palazzo. I enjoy this theory because i feel it helps tie in Shadow a bit more into the story and would also in a suddo effect also make him the main character that has very little time in the party and even quite possible to be missing for most of it (always wait for Shadow don't jump) and that is such a unique idea for me it make me laugh like a poorly written Chrono from Trigger.
I've been working on a video about this EXACT theory. It is true and there is a ridiculous amount of evidence. Thanks for being in the minority with me🧡
Ultimecia not being Rinoa is exactly what Chaos would want you to think. Don't trust him!
I agree... if they didn't want that to be a thread to pull they would have dialed back the "time compression" gibberish lol
💯
i was going to say "come on, everyone knows that gogo is adlai stevenson" but one of your graphics did reference that joke theory
Here is my new theory I think has merrit:
Jenova is one of Meteon's sisters.
Meteion's sisters, also created by Hermes in Elpis, traveled to other worlds 1000s of years ago. The sisters reported back that each world had fallen to ruin or dystopia for some reason or another. It's not a stretch of the imagine these sister then became "calamities from the sky" (as Jenova is called). Meteion, having gone mad, vowed to destroy all life on Eorzea seeing that as the inevitable destiny of all things anyway. Perhaps she then sent a message to her sisters to do the same to the worlds they found. This would also be consistent with other beings from Amaraut's time that seemed to go mad after 1000s of years of immortality like Emit Selch, Elidibus, and Lahabrea.
In FF7, Jenova also seems to infuse a different type of power than mako. Soldiers infused with Jenova cells gain entirely different traits - often involving rapid evolution and the ability to transcend one's own boundaries. It could very well be that Mako = Aether... and Jenova cells = Dynamis.
Further evidence for this is the reunion. In FFXIV, after Elpis/Amaurat was sundered, it was possible to rejoin the fractured realm. Even BEINGS from amaurat's time could have their sundered portions rejoined as each calamity occurred. Similarly, the reunion could seek to reunite all of Jenova into one Ascian like being again. Sephiroth and Cloud were so powerful because, like the Warrior of Light in FFXIV, they were partially rejoined. This could explain why Sephiroth wants to take "mother" with him, though still seems to have enough will to remain separate.
all theories of ffviii means, that ff8 needs a remake and renarating everything from ground up. It can be bigger than ffvii remake. like Laguna Arc, Soilder School Arc, The rogue Arc(being criminal after shot ultimecia, so advangering ruins and shit),SEED Arc, The sky city bs arc.
there are so many posibility on 8 that can be made into a super sequal.
First time I've heard the TRPG term "theorycrafting" (meaning coming up with builds that are untested in actual play) to mean "coming up with a fan theory"
“People do not return after death “
Also, what’s a Phoenix Down
I wonder how many times SE would get these pretty well thought theories and go: "Well damn, why didn't we think of this!?" 😆
Forget P dungeon I've went through it 3 times now and it never gave me the giga gloves
FF6, Gigi is just a cameo. I remember the prevailing theory back in the day was that he was actually Gestahl looking to seek revenge on Kefka.
That.... is incredibly dumb. Dumber than most of the theories on here. Dumber than the fan theory you could get the Triforce in Zelda 64. Dumber than the Sheng Long thing in Street Fighter 2.
That's because Americans didn't play FFV. It was understandable stupidity at best
It’s not really a theory, but I know there’s a lot of confusion behind who killed aerith... the argument is that it was jenova rather than sephiroth.. people have tried to explain it to me but there to many mixed thoughts on it. Any good explanations out there?
It is Jenova.
She's the one the party runs after during most of the game, while Sephiroth is stuck in cristalized mako in the Northern Crater.
That's why every time the party manages to corner Sephiroth, you end up fighting Jenova.
Jenova, however, is more or less controlled by Sephiroth, so... In a way, it's still Sephiroth who killed Aerith.
@@sabrakt I like your description. I think people say because jenova is like a symbiot that they share the same will which is an okay argument but doesn’t really solve much… also wait wait! Does that mean hojos experiment really was to have sephiroth control jenova ( to make it simple in my head because i know there were many other reasons for the experiments.)
I always used to think that Ultimicia was Rinoa's mother
The machines not being wholly evil in the Matrix is explored in the animatrix