If your relationship with God is not what it used to be, perhaps this is why. This chapel message from Professor Zigarelli was presented in February 2018 at Messiah College.
@John doue Quebec The concept of God has existed before the three in once doctrine called the Abrahamic faith system. Have you ever heard of Zoroastrianism? The prophet of that religion forbade slavery, treated women like people instead of slaves and objects...believed God was about truth and light and heaven and hell was first thought of in that religion before Christianity. I believe God is God and won't punish people for their own beliefs in what God is. Religion is all about control and "brotherly love"...where do women even fit into this narrative except for what are bodies are useful for or to blame women for everything including Eve eating an apple causing sin for all! When bad things are going on in the world people will say Jesus is coming!! In other words...do nothing to fight back or make a change. Wait for a guy that's been dead for 2000 years.
@@RobespierreThePoof read spinoza, God is the physical embodiment of science and nature and the two are inseparable. I doubt this god really cares what you call it or how you define it.
@@ashley_brown6106 This question is for theists. We deists don't care whether he let us to die or not. But I am sure that God is totally not interested in us.
@@ashley_brown6106 why not? Even if an entity that conforms to your idea of god existed, should they not have Free Will, like anybody else? And if they felt like taking a rest/break or walking away from their business, can you stop them?
@@ashley_brown6106 That questions presupposes this deist being has the same wishes and mentality that humans have. But surely this being could be almost entirely different. Perhaps something that seems illogical to us might be logical to him/it.
I am a deist because I believe that God gave us reasoning and logic in order to know what is right and what is wrong. Unlike a couple of other deists though, I believe that he still interferes in our lives time to time through the use of miracles. This is a position held by deists like Zera Yacob, Edward Herbert, Thomas Morgan, Thomas Chubb, and many others.
Ur not a deist. Ur a theist. Basically a Christian who doesn’t believe in Jesus. Right and wrong do not exist. They are social concepts we adopted for survival.
A lot of people seem to have trouble getting past their own narrow limited conception of “God”. God is not to be confused with Religion. Religion is an institution of man and therefore displays duality; so religion can breed inspiration and faith as well as ignorance and subjugation. Whereas the true essence of God is non-dualistic. Modern science at the quantum level, Fermi Paradox statistical analysis, as well as epistemological quandary points to some type of overarching ethereal force that maintains the universe.
Deism makes a lot more sense to me than Theism. I don't think I've experienced anything supernatural in my entire life. It can all be explained naturally.I do agree though, god talk should be a wholly private matter. If you want to believe in something, that's fine, but don't assume the rest of us want to hear about it or have it taught to our children.
Interesting.. I never even knew their was a name for my beliefs and I would like to say world events is what change it for me. God the ever knowing made Hitler and knew what he would become well in advance but stood/sat by and allowed him to be created to see if it would really play out that way. For the players on teams that won a championship that said they prayed to god, it would also mean god chose them over the other players on the opposite team that also prayed to him. Is god all of a sudden choosy on who he wants to win or does simply sit back and watches what happens?
They always say "God's plan" but then that cancel out any ability of us to create decision. Lets use your example, if a team lose a game it's usually because they got outperformed in different ways. Basically saying that the decision of the players and the coaches affected the output of the game. But that's not the case about christianity, they usually says God has better plans in there future (which is written in their bible) that just simply nullifies their free will. And yeah deism is quite good for it gave me peace of mind and true freedom to enjoy my life.
I was secular then I became a deist after reading the Bible. It seems very unlikely to me that god is immanent but instead acts as a moral judge of the universe. I think he has made his will known through prophets and continues to do so through the Holy Ghost, but has given us the tools to comprehend and make manifest his will via our autonomy.
Ur not a deist. Ur a theist. Basically a Christian who doesn’t believe in Jesus. Right and wrong do not exist. They are social concepts we adopted for survival.
It's possible. That's what I appreciate about Deism. It is a philosophy, not a religion. So, people have different views and opinions when it comes to their personal philosophy pertaining to Deism.
If you believe that Jesus was a mere human, not sent in a special way by God, who did nothing supernatural, I believe you can call yourself a deist. However if you believe that God interacts (or has interacted in the past, after the creative process) with the physical world to the point of issuing some revelation, or that Jesus was sent by God, then I don't think you can call yourself a Deist. But this is just my opinion, which is worth little or nothing.
@@Rolando_Cueva not all deists believe that God doesn't intervene with his creation, the only requirement to be a diest is to believe in some sort of a creator but not in religious institutions
Im a deist because I believe composition and emergence has no bounds Just as a human is an emerging property of a certain arrangement of atoms, to me God is the emergent property of all existence
In summary, keep yourself tightly bound to your own brand of christianity. Don't look at, read, listen to, anything that your group does not produce, otherwise you'll be doomed. Is that so?
15 years ago I was still a devout Christian. Then I started questioning many things in my religion and I turned to paganism (Wicca, to be more precise). Some tragic thing drove me to that. It didn't last too long and I came back to my original belief in one God (the Creator). However, I chose not to follow any religion due to being too confused about which one was the right one. Today I'm something between an agnostic theist and a deist. But to be honest, I miss the days I was a devout Christian as I had a lot more peace.
Haha yep. That's perhaps the biggest "hook" that religion has to offer to entice one with. "There there, now. It's all figured out. Don't you worry your precious little head about anything. You've got THE answer now! Go have yourself a good time!".
You believe God sits back and watches people suffer horrible deaths or Children and Babies being raped or tortured??? I believe and love God with all my heart I simply believe He does not personally participate in our affairs....all part of free will .......
German Boy Yeah because we don’t know whether god is good or not. If he even gives a shit. We’re like particles compared to a god why would he care which animal we eat and if we masturbate or not?
@@ketsune23 No never said that. I meant that in order to give us free will...God has to put natural forces in place...gravity.....fire....all sorts of random physical things and then in his perfection he steps back and let's His perfect creation do the rest...
well god did make some rules in our biology that I think are intentionally made to make us suffer. although perhaps it was ignorance and I shouldn't assign feelings of malevolence to a god I have no knowledge of.
The diagram at 11:33 is very helpful. Under each, from left to right, one could add: creation in 6 days (they demonstrating both transcendence and immanence); instant creation; evolution. The underlying basis for the three modes of thinking about the creator.
Isn't the whole goal of all of this to believe in things which reflect reality? How could there be a battle if we are supposed to be cooperating on the quest for truth? Shouldn't we try and band together against the ultimate enemies that are ignorance and the unknown? I mean I think your missing the bigger picture. When the big cultural shift towards valuing truth and logic happened people started not believing in God. What does that say about christianity? Or in otherwords, if valuing truth above all else leads to not being Christian then doesn't that mean christianity at the very least appears false? That seems like a much bigger issue to me than anything.
If by battle you mean to unite all our forces, acknowledge that God exists, see what God mean to every single one of us. Discuss, debate and try to get a relationship with God. By following God's law first of all, by studying, by acting in God's law.
Your logic implies that “knowledge” is only obtainable by means according to current abilities of physical observation. Just as humanity once thought the earth was flat, or before the discovery of infrared/ultraviolet light and means to observe them. Science and God are not incompatible and science actually proves nothing. The scientific method only disproves what is testable and observable and we draw conclusions from that information. “Scientism” is the popular culture narrative that all currently accepted science is virtually infallible and the only source of any knowledge in the universe. As many can see this line of thinking itself becomes a dogmatic religion. Not to negate the power and results of true scientific method, but even now at the deepest levels of quantum analysis we have many unanswered questions that directly negate Newtonian logic and prove that there is a subjective nature not just woven into consciousness, but the very physical fabric of physical existence. I think that the cultural monopoly and consolidation of global powers pushes this flawed “Scientism” doctrine just as the ancient Roman Catholic Church used Christianity to control thought and maintain order. Both of those institutions are incomplete and impure in their logic and motivation. But that’s a different topic I suppose...
@@tradingjedi63 if God was real but unobservable then that situation is identical to God not being real. Otherwise we could simply track the differences and that would make him observable. If God is real and observable then science would be perfectly applicable to figuring that out and his properties. And if God is not real then he obviously can't be observed. Also, anyone who knows how science works knows better than to claim that the current theories are infallible. Also also nothing in my original post implies any of this. I just said that since people that value and seek truth according to this video end up becoming athiests/deists, that must mean that Religion appears false to those people, and thus that the correct next step shouldn't be "so we must ignore whatever sources they used to reach that conclusion" but should instead be "so we should evaluate those sources ourselves to see if our own views hold up to scrutiny because if so many people who scrutinize this type of thing find that it's not sufficiently substantiated then it should be worth looking into." In other words disbelieving in God is only bad if God is real. And if God is not real then disbelieving in him is good. Given that you are attempting to believe in true things and not false things of course, if you have different goals then you may reach a different conclusion. Also I'm noting that you haven't actually pointed out any flaws in the scientific method. Nor any preferable alternatives. Trust me, if we (humanity) find a better method of determining truth instead of science we will use it. But so far science has produced the best results compared to any other method attempted by far.
So if I believe that god (maybe some being from a higher dimension) only made the big bang happen, but everything after that happened in a natural way. And if someone shows me proof that it wasn’t even an entity that was responsible for the big bang I’ll easily accept it. Then am I a deist?
I’d say you are the right track but minus the whole Big Bang thing. Like someone I heard say, “this epic video game was created and given rules. Now we live out this existence until it’s over.” You are free to believe what you want to but the evolutionary science and Big Bang theory we’ve been taught is as much a religion as Islam. No evidence for anything to have happened 4.5 billion years ago. So… faith? God is the programmer. We are the protagonists. The earth is the battleground. No heaven. No hell. Only existence.
I have never been able to square the idea of a loving Creator with the cruel intolerance and subjugation of Christianity. That is what caused me to 'drift' into Deism. I've never felt more at peace with my place in the Universe
I am gonna introduce a very powerful sentence about religion. We know that, there are a lot of religions out there. I associate religions with people's ideologies. Every religion is different. And the person, who belongs to a certain religion, claims that his/her religion is the best. Religions are man made. That is all. I used to be a muslim but then i became deist. I realized the problems with my religion. We know that islam divides into 2 parts: shia, sunni. And intriguingly the people who are sunni posit that they are in the true way, or vice versa for shias. This is just ridiculous. Even in a single religion, there are several controversial issues. It also refers to christianity. In the end, i strongly believe in God. I am a very strong believer, but as i mentioned below, i do not follow any religion. Choose the right way. Book recommendation: sapiens, a brief story of time by Yuval Harari. Read a lot of books, then you will realize the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. John 17 How do you want to contradict the words of the Lord?
I remember when one of my nephews was around 5 years old, he was sitting waiting for his father to turn up for a day out (he was separated from my sister) and after a few hours I had to tell him that his father wasn’t coming. He insisted on waiting but his father never came and I sat and watched while his heart quietly broke. I’m moving towards Deism because my heart is quietly broken and the father never shows up. If god is here, how can he return at the end of revelation?
Any life run on self-will can hardly be a success. On that basis we are almost always in collision with something or somebody, even though our motives are good. Selfishness-self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles. Driven by a hundred forms of fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, and self-pity, we invariably find that at some time in the past we have made decisions based on self which later placed us in a position to be hurt. So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making. They arise out of ourselves. Above everything, we must be rid of this selfishness. We must, or it kills us! God makes that possible. And there often seems no way of entirely getting rid of self without His aid. Many of us had moral and philosophical convictions galore, but we could not live up to them even though we would have liked to. Neither could we reduce our self-centeredness much by wishing or trying on our own power. We had to have God’s help. This is the how and why of it. First of all, we had to quit playing God. It didn’t work. Next, we decided that hereafter in this drama of life, God was going to be our Director. He is the Principal; we are His agents. He is the Father, and we are His children. Most good ideas are simple, and this concept was the keystone of the new and triumphant arch through which we passed to freedom. When we sincerely took such a position, all sorts of remarkable things followed. We had a new Employer. Being all powerful, He provided what we needed, if we kept close to Him and performed His work well. Established on such a footing we became less and less interested in ourselves, our little plans and designs. More and more we became interested in seeing what we could contribute to life. As we felt new power flow in, as we enjoyed peace of mind, as we discovered we could face life successfully, as we became conscious of His presence, we began to lose our fear of today, tomorrow or the hereafter. We were reborn. We were now at Step Three. Many of us said to our Maker, as we understood Him: “God, I offer myself to Thee-to build with me and to do with me as Thou wilt. Relieve me of the bondage of self, that I may better do Thy will. Take away my difficulties, that victory over them may bear witness to those I would help of Thy Power, Thy Love, and Thy Way of life. May I do Thy will always!"
@@leusmaximusx However you forget the consequences of flesh. We are sinless in our born again state but will suffer for wrongs in the flesh, is why we need the Holy Spirit by dependence to work through the flesh in a way pleasing to God. Why else does it say not to grieve the Holy Spirit?
@@KeithGreenshields we never had any sin in the eyes of God, for sin is only a manmade invention. What you are saying are just normal challenges of life that we must overcome as our role in this existence, we must learn from our mistakes and from mistakes of others, by using and developing our God given gifts of talents, FREEWILL and inalienable Human RIghts and FREEDOM. God knows we are not perfect and sends to us his Holy Spirit whenever we choosse his WILL. God's WIll is LOVE TRUTH JOY JUSTICE and CREATIVENESS. The Holy Spirit is GOd's WILL. God knew the weakness and strenghts of our flesh, because he created us, all humans are Gods children, Jesus Christ is our brother. His Love is everlasting thats why there is no need to FORGIVE us. Jesus doesnt condemn us, God doesnt condemn us, only zealots and agenda-driven characters do. We pay for the consequences of our actions by our suffering which God have no part. There wil be no hell or punishment as these are just strawmen fallacy preached to put fear and obedience by ordinary self anointed men who are realy slavers and opressors of freewill Free yourself from trying to be good for God, he doesnt need it, God wants you to do good on your fellowmen love them, forgive them from their transgressions unto you, do not chain them to bigotry of human lie called SINS. Do your duty to your government and create beneficIal things from your time and talents for the bettermen of this world that God had created for every living creatures. Waste not your time from useless religions and enforced moralities and harmful actions. Our current time is finite and every day that we are born again as we awake, will also end. Time is God's MANA from heaven. Give thanks and pray for wisdom and enlightenment and Freedom from oppressive religions based on tribal propaganda books invented by man. Share the true Gospel of Jesus, that i had shared with you in this mesage. To God be all the glory, in Jesus name, halleluyah ! Shalom !
I believe in Ethical Deism, meaning that there's a dotted line back and forth between God and Man. God, at least, calls us to be good. We worship and connect to God by doing his will, that is by being good and resisting evil. This is consistent with Zoroastrianism and (non-pauline) Christian Deism.
A simple response would be a question: How do you know that God is the god of Deism? He may use a cosmological argument, but he will run into the problem of personality and communication since his god is not a god of revelation.
There is not only one definition of "God" in deism, but the main idea is that he is the Creator of the universe, some people say that it's all, some other says he must be perfect and stuff. Basically Deism is rejecting religions but not the belief in "God".
I was raised Catholic but was never truly a Christian at all. I just couldn't bring myself to believe these wild old stories but at the same time, never & will never doubt the existence of a creator. Science explains how the natural laws of the universe work. Physics, chemistry & biology but no one can explain WHY they work the way they do. Some think that it's just random happenstance that they just so happen to work this way. The others think it was designed to work this way. The latter has always been more reasonable in my opinion. I will never not be a Deist.
Can someone help me im not sure what i would be considered but here are my beliefs. God is everything and everyone from consciousness to atoms. I dont believe in heaven or hell. I dont believe in jesus. I believe that sins are mistakes to learn from but also karma you get what you give and those deep sins are burdens you will have to carry for the rest of your life sufferI believe in the duality of happiness and suffering, and that one can not exist without the other. Something morals are societal while others are common sense( as in you know when your doing something bad, you can feel it in your gut) i believe that reality is moldable by your own thoughts and choices but need excision to take form. Best description i can give
6:17 No, not necessarily. In the deist view, incarnation could still happen. DNA itself could be an incarnation of God, even if only a very limited and at times flawed incarnation. As for atonement...well, when you do something wrong, it is still your responsibility to make it right. That said, I respect the Christian insistence that even our best shot still falls miserably short of perfection. I agree with this - wholeheartedly! I am a former diehard Christian myself. And even I still find that there is so much in Christian thought that is beautiful and absolutely true. But I'm not convinced that the Bible is entirely inerrant. I follow more of a pre-Christian Platonic and Stoic understanding of God.
be true to yourself and concider your ways, that simple, that easy... everyone can do it! Bonus: Government from Latin, guvernare/guverno to control ment/mentis mind thus mindcontrol
Organised religion is a social construction where man has interpreted, and been involved in, contaminating thruths to fit the fantasy, whereas natural principles of God's beautiful creations are observable through nature. I believe in God's world over God's word; a clear and distinct separation of God and religion, with a direct connect to the former and bypassing of the latter.
My son: "Father, why did God put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the middle of the garden knowing that human beings would eat from it?" Me: "...." My son: "And why did Cousin Jennie go to hell forever?"
I will answer this in terms of the Muslim faith. Since God is all knowledgeable, he knows that Adam and Eve would eat from the tree even though he ordered them not too. However, there is wisdom behind everything that God does. He told them not to eat from that tree even though he knows that Satan will tempt them and that they will eventually eat from it due to the temptation of the devil to show them how the devil is able to deceive humans into doing sin and evil. And this is a reminder for all of us humans not to follow the devil and his temptations. O children of Adam! Do not let Satan deceive you as he tempted your parents out of Paradise and caused their cover to be removed in order to expose their nakedness. Surely he and his soldiers watch you from where you cannot see them. We have made the devils allies of those who disbelieve. (Quran 7:27)
@@rakanalajmi6169 And why did God create the devil, knowing in advance everything he was going to do? And why did He put him in the garden of Eden, knowing he would lead humans into sin?
@@davidpinheiro9650 ُThe answer to these questions is that ultimately life is a test in which God separates the ones who believe in him and follow his guidance from those who disbelieve and sin. ˹He is the One˺ Who created death and life in order to test which of you is best in deeds. And He is the Almighty, All-Forgiving. (Quran 67:2) And a part of that test in life is whether or not people are able to resist the evil temptations of the devil. However, God is just and did not leave us without guidance. Instead he sent down his guidance in the form of revelation to his messengers in order for them to convey that guidance to humanity, and he has shown us the path of truth and the path of falsehood and has warned us of the devil and his temptations. O believers! Do not follow the footsteps of Satan. Whoever follows Satan’s footsteps, then ˹let them know that˺ he surely bids ˹all to˺ immorality and wickedness. Had it not been for Allah’s grace and mercy upon you, none of you would have ever been purified. But Allah purifies whoever He wills. And Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing. (Quran 24:21) Furthermore, Satan's deception is weak as God did not allow him to have any control over humanity, with exception to those who follow him and worship him. Indeed, My servants - no authority will you have over them, except those who follow you of the deviators. (Quran 15:42) Therefore, if someone were to follow the devil's footsteps and fall into sin and evil, even after God's guidance has been revealed, then they will have no one to blame but themselves. And Satan will say ˹to his followers˺ after the judgment has been passed, “Indeed, Allah has made you a true promise. I too made you a promise, but I failed you. I did not have any authority over you. I only called you, and you responded to me. So do not blame me; blame yourselves. I cannot save you, nor can you save me. Indeed, I denounce your previous association of me with Allah ˹in loyalty˺. Surely the wrongdoers will suffer a painful punishment.” (Quran 14:22)
@@rakanalajmi6169 Thank you for your answer. However, I prefer the simpler explanation. That God did not create the world in 6 days, nor did He create the devil, nor set up a mousetrap to "test" Adam and Eve (knowing in advance what would result) using the devil for this, nor put the species in pairs within an ark, nor created tongues because of a tower, nor destroyed the life and family of Job to boast before the devil. I prefer the more logical and linear explanation: that God never wrote the Bible (or Koran).
@@davidpinheiro9650 I understand that you have your opinion and belief just like I have mine. However, I would like to add that simpler does not necessarily mean true. I would even argue that what you are proposing is actually the more complex/illogical outcome. If you do believe in God then why do you think he would create us and give us a mind and intellect and free will only to abandon us and leave us to do whatever we want whenever we want however we want and never be held accountable for our actions? Did all the criminals who ever walked the face of this Earth till the end of time get away with their crimes? No guidance would mean that no one would be held accountable for his deeds, since according to this belief, God doesn’t care about his creation. Did you then think that We had created you without purpose, and that you would never be returned to Us?” (Quran 23:115) And if you don’t believe in God whatsoever, then the evidence against you would be even worse. Everything in our universe from our hearts pumping oxygenated blood continuously throughout our complex organ system keeping us alive without us even noticing to the continuous rotation of the Earth resulting in a shift in day and night cycles allowing us to work and sleep respectively to the pouring of rain from the sky bringing forth trees, flowers, fruits and vegetation for our consumption points towards a creator who is continuously watching over us and taking care of us for a reason. And that is the only logical explanation.
I don't subscribe to any ideology. I believe in god/gods/creator. The purpose of creation is only known to Him, that's why he never reveals Himself. We are here to follow good/love which is in our instinct given by God without being ordered. Because God only wants us to experience the love in Godless condition or by freewill, He sent us here to experience God/love without its assistance or presence on our own by our actions and emotions. Suppose a parent sets free his children to play a video game in which he can do any thing love hate good bad anything and thus experiencing what is good to do on his own and when he/she finishes his game sometimes they learn something sometime not, they are allowed to play more by reincarnation. In the end there is no crime done in the real world all this life is just like a video game but including all the feelings. And thus God never punishes because He didn't allowed any soul to hurt really. I don't know what ideology this belongs to but this is what I understood.
Secularism is "the principle of separation of the state from religious institutions". It has nothing to do with belief, or non-belief, in a god or gods.
The Christian religion did a wonderful job of convincing me to not be Christian. Deism convinced me not to believe in Deism. Theism, atheism, pantheism, agosticism, same outcome. I do believe fully in God, though. I don't need an organised religion or definition of my belief to have that belief.
You can drift away from Christianity easiest because there are less repercussions, you won't be killed for doing it. THANK YOU CHRISTIANITY!! This is my stop, I'm getting off.
Well, given that they believe in "moralistic" deism, then the "therapeutic" must be limited by ethics. So, I don't think his claim about dating 30 women at the same time is fair.
If you feel an immanent God it's because he exists. If you feel that there is no immanent God it's because there are reasons we can't understand (so continue to believe in old jewish book)
@@alekseykasaev8706 You imply that people's opinions do not matter, only yours, which is that God is immanent, does. So if someone feels that God is immanent, it is because it is the truth. On the contrary, if someone feels that God is not immanent, it is because he is ignorant.
I have much more peace now that I left Christianity with all the man made dogma and superstition and guilt. Deism is not a drifting away from God. It’s was a epiphany.
The Bible is the story of Yahweh's fulfilled plan of redemption given exclusively to ancient Israelites cursed with the Old Covenant Law of sin and death and pertains to no one alive today. Here's more..... If you believe the Bible, then you'd have to agree with Jesus in Matthew 15:24, that he only came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. You'd have to agree with Jesus in Matthew 5:18, that no jot nor tittle of the Old Covenant Law would pass away until the Old Covenant system, temple and people associated with it (what Jews referred to as "heaven and earth") passed away. You'd have to agree with history, that the Old Covenant system, temple and people associated with it passed away in AD 70. You'd have to agree with Paul, who said in Romans 5:13, "Where there is no (Old Covenant) Law, sin is not taken into account." This of course means that salvation was only needed by those who had sin taken into account, which is not us today. You'd also have to agree with Hebrews 9:15, that redemption was only for those who sinned under the first covenant, which again...is not us today. The bitter pill of truth is that nobody has been saved nor redeemed for nearly two thousand years. The "church" has been in a massive error; a complete hijacking of ancient Israel's redemptive narrative. "But...but...I'm a gentile1" Are you? The gentiles Paul and the disciples were preaching to were either Greek converts to Judaism, or the elect diaspora, grafted-in descendants of the tribes of Israel who had been dispersed among the nations. Through the ministry of the disciple's great commission, they were called out from the nations to again be a holy nation of kings and priests, to be sealed for the day of redemption, which only they lived to see. Nobody today is a gentile of that sort. Today's self-appointed "christians" have been hoodwinked into believing they're sinners under a law that passed away, and need a savior who said he came for someone else, who will save them from a sin that's already been removed, and a judgement that already happened, and allow them into covenant that was made with someone else. The fact is, we today were never and are not part of ancient Israel's redemptive narrative. ~Michael Bradley The Bible: It's Not About Us!
I became an atheist when I realized I hadn't ever heard or felt God. I became an antitheist when I realized how people I grew up under used God and their beliefs in Him to control me and hurt me and justify their terrible actions.
@@varalderfreyr8438 I really don't care for your apologetics. God may not be directly at fault but people were able to muddy the waters enough that my child brain formed an image of him that was horrible. I can't change that nor do I feel it is my responsibility to. If God is truly just I will not be held to account but rather those who manipulated my image of him in his name
A contradiction is an impossibility and a miracle is an impossibility that only God makes possible. Do you believe in miracles? I have written on God that would settle the debate between religious people and atheists because both are wrong having arguments to be right because God exists as irrefutably as a mathematical truth and the religious god doesn’t as hatred is not perfect love. If everything needed to be created nothing would exists, therefore God exists. I exist therefore i was created or always existed and the creator was created or always existed, therefore an eternal entity exists. A miracle or impossibility possible is the existence of infinitude. Can a car go at infinite speed, have a painting infinite colours, start a race an eternity ago, have a football pitch infinite space? It is impossible, unless it is God, that can make the impossible possible. God was not created because if God was created i would not exist. If the universe was eternal the universe would be a miracle, God. The universe is an infinitesimal part of infinite God that is everything that ever existed, exists and would exist, the eternal miracle of Life and Death, the origin of the creation because nothing existed before and everything was created after from Self because nothing is created from nothing and nothing is destroyed into nothing unless nothing is something, an impossibility possible or miracle, God that is existence and non existence. Philosophy, logic, rational thinking alone proves the existence of God but humanity choose to ignore, reject the arguments that contradict their vision of reality. God is not an entity separated from the creation as the creation comes from Self. God is the first cause uncaused, the infinite Creator and the finite creation, one Life and multiple lives, same Life and different lives, All reality and fiction, the miraculous Game of Life and Death transforming in time. God is neither created nor destroyed, only transformed alive or dead, when all life die and God die becoming deterministic movement, like growing nails in a corpse, a memory of the past without new minds created in the present because life comes from life, love, union, truth. Humanity is lying to self because don’t understand that we all are in the same and different Boat of Life and Death and the life of any creature is God’s Life past present and future, I am the same and different person than i was yesterday and I would be tomorrow impossibility possible miracle God. Hell and heaven is ourselves for eternity til endless death when all life die and God die becoming a memory of the eternal history of God, like a still picture or growing nails in a corpse. Would you like to know the absolute truth, all eternal reality? Only a fool wouldn’t like to know the truth, even if unpleasant. Would you like all to know all? Only if you are honest. If being yourself for eternity doesn’t scare you you are honest. To die is to resurrect in the past of God to know everything and judge ourselves with perfect justice, perfect knowledge and be rewarded or punished with heavenly or hellish psychology for having lived the Game of Life and Death wisely or foolishly for eternity. All creation and destruction stays in God because God is existence and non existence because nothing existed before and all is created after. Nothing can not exist unless is something, an impossibility possible or miracle, God. The mind is created and not destroyed and the Life of God keeps having lives living in the present and resurrecting in the past.
This is not correct and I wish you would take it down. This is absolutely not correct. DS do believe in God. We do believe in miracles. We do believe in the supernatural. We do have a close relationship with God. I don't know if I would I don't know if I would necessary consider myself a DS but I believe in God I love the King James version Bible. But I also do a love a lot of other religions and their beliefs because they all have some of the exact same foundations. I know that's a trigger from many people but that's usually a trigger for people who've never even bothered reading something else other than one book from one religion. Take a year or two and read about 10 to 12 different religions and you're going to find the same foundations. The one thing I've learned in my life is that not to tell others what they should or shouldn't believe in but let them follow their own path. That's the freedom of choice that's been given to you by any god of any kind of any generation. The freedom of choice the right to live. Religions add more complication on top of some basic fundamentals and that's when all the wars and tribulations have been cars around. Sins have been amplified because people how are more garbage on top of garbage on top of basic principles.
I condone all deism in Jesus name. I serve only God. Politics may believe there's a God but do not keep His words but write and teach their own sinning forefathers Garbage. God calls all deism and it's writings. Spittle. So do I !
Today's self-appointed "Christians" wrongly conflate the Supreme Creator of the world with the Biblical War God Yahweh, the Bronze Age tribal deity of the twelve tribes of ancient Israel along with His Son Jesus the Christ of ancient Israel. "I only came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel." ~Jesus the Christ in Matthew 15:24 first century
fortunatly i didnt watch the whole thing as its, at the end, a christian apologetics to my surprise and discust. I AM drifting toward deism as god, defined as jesus, does not love u unconditionaly. Thats a fat out lie im sorry to say. people who claim to love you dont threaten genocide to the majority of humanity and then sentence them to hell if the 'love' isnt returned. If you love something let it go, if it cones bk to u, its yours. If it doesnt, it never was. Peace.
Incorrect. God is loving but he is also just, thereby his justness causes him to punish as He is perfect. It's incorrect to say that if God loves he wouldn't punish.
Excellent comment! Thanks Chis! The New Testament is infinitely more macabre than the Old. In the Old, people were stoned, groups of people were killed. But in the New the overwhelming majority of the world's population burns forever.
Do you believe in a creator i.e. God, Dog, Dave, whatever word you want, the frredom of choice has apparently been given to us, but if like me you don't follow one of mans' main murderous religions (which I hate) i.e. Christianity, Islam, Judaism etc., because you see the moral and social problems caused by these organised/manipulated religions? I admit there is nothing provable or unprovable but my own logic from 57 years (brought up catholiuc) says this viewable projection (everything we see and feel) must have been created; even if it is just a learning simulation (xbox game etc.) for humans 1,000 years into the future, what is the closest lable you have found for what you believe in so far? I am continuing to look for an answer....
Prof Zigarelli - your entire presentation is load with extremist examples. If your extreme 'Diest' examples are true then please do the same for the 'extreme' God fearing religious examples (Russian Church currently, etc.). If all HUMANS believed and acted as if they 'were citizens of the world and religion were to do good' (Thomas Paine - Deist enemy #1, is that the ultimate freedom and love.
We, the deists do not question the existence of God. We have very strong, deep and logical belief in God.
@John doue Quebec Original cause.
@John doue Quebec The concept of God has existed before the three in once doctrine called the Abrahamic faith system. Have you ever heard of Zoroastrianism? The prophet of that religion forbade slavery, treated women like people instead of slaves and objects...believed God was about truth and light and heaven and hell was first thought of in that religion before Christianity.
I believe God is God and won't punish people for their own beliefs in what God is. Religion is all about control and "brotherly love"...where do women even fit into this narrative except for what are bodies are useful for or to blame women for everything including Eve eating an apple causing sin for all! When bad things are going on in the world people will say Jesus is coming!! In other words...do nothing to fight back or make a change. Wait for a guy that's been dead for 2000 years.
@John doue Quebec it should be. No one should claim who the God is.
@John doue Quebec none of the above
@@RobespierreThePoof read spinoza, God is the physical embodiment of science and nature and the two are inseparable. I doubt this god really cares what you call it or how you define it.
I believe God created the universe and everything in it. After that he left us to do our thing and doesn't intervene with us beyond that.
Why did he even create it if he was gonna let it die in the first place!???
That is what I exactly believe. 👍👍👍
@@ashley_brown6106 This question is for theists. We deists don't care whether he let us to die or not. But I am sure that God is totally not interested in us.
@@ashley_brown6106 why not? Even if an entity that conforms to your idea of god existed, should they not have Free Will, like anybody else? And if they felt like taking a rest/break or walking away from their business, can you stop them?
@@ashley_brown6106 That questions presupposes this deist being has the same wishes and mentality that humans have. But surely this being could be almost entirely different. Perhaps something that seems illogical to us might be logical to him/it.
I am a deist because I believe that God gave us reasoning and logic in order to know what is right and what is wrong. Unlike a couple of other deists though, I believe that he still interferes in our lives time to time through the use of miracles. This is a position held by deists like Zera Yacob, Edward Herbert, Thomas Morgan, Thomas Chubb, and many others.
Ur not a deist. Ur a theist. Basically a Christian who doesn’t believe in Jesus. Right and wrong do not exist. They are social concepts we adopted for survival.
@@TheBatFanForever that would still make him a deist, also nothing he said would indicate any sort of belief in Christianity
@@peterkropotkin1158 believing in miracles and divine intervention makes you lose your deistic status. He’s a theist. Not a deist
A lot of people seem to have trouble getting past their own narrow limited conception of “God”. God is not to be confused with Religion. Religion is an institution of man and therefore displays duality; so religion can breed inspiration and faith as well as ignorance and subjugation. Whereas the true essence of God is non-dualistic. Modern science at the quantum level, Fermi Paradox statistical analysis, as well as epistemological quandary points to some type of overarching ethereal force that maintains the universe.
All organized ritualistic religion are rooted in the desire of people to control God.
For my part I think the Universe is like a machine, when activated, you don't need to rouch it again.
I am moving away from Religion and closer to God.
My left ear is now a Deist.
😂😂😂
I became a deist when I found out I am a carbon molecule looking for bonds to reach my octate rule.
Only 1k view shows whom is open minded in the world who even knows what deism is?
Yea
So basically he's saying Deism makes more sense.
"People are being practical and acting as if things that don't interact with them or their surroundings in any verifiable way don't exist. Oh noes"
I'd rather call myself a Deist than a Catholic which I no longer am after calling the priest and he said "okay"
man if that's what today's young people think, i feel much better about the future than I ever did before.
Deism makes a lot more sense to me than Theism. I don't think I've experienced anything supernatural in my entire life. It can all be explained naturally.I do agree though, god talk should be a wholly private matter. If you want to believe in something, that's fine, but don't assume the rest of us want to hear about it or have it taught to our children.
Abrahamic religions are not respectful. They need to feel superior to other people's religions.
@@ketsune23 No? Lol, they have their own beliefs and if they want to defend them, let them. What a generalization.
Believe in organic chemistry, periodic table and carbon making covalent bonds
Interesting.. I never even knew their was a name for my beliefs and I would like to say world events is what change it for me. God the ever knowing made Hitler and knew what he would become well in advance but stood/sat by and allowed him to be created to see if it would really play out that way. For the players on teams that won a championship that said they prayed to god, it would also mean god chose them over the other players on the opposite team that also prayed to him. Is god all of a sudden choosy on who he wants to win or does simply sit back and watches what happens?
They always say "God's plan" but then that cancel out any ability of us to create decision. Lets use your example, if a team lose a game it's usually because they got outperformed in different ways. Basically saying that the decision of the players and the coaches affected the output of the game. But that's not the case about christianity, they usually says God has better plans in there future (which is written in their bible) that just simply nullifies their free will.
And yeah deism is quite good for it gave me peace of mind and true freedom to enjoy my life.
I was secular then I became a deist after reading the Bible. It seems very unlikely to me that god is immanent but instead acts as a moral judge of the universe. I think he has made his will known through prophets and continues to do so through the Holy Ghost, but has given us the tools to comprehend and make manifest his will via our autonomy.
Kinda just sounds like islam tbh
Ur not a deist. Ur a theist. Basically a Christian who doesn’t believe in Jesus. Right and wrong do not exist. They are social concepts we adopted for survival.
The deism model wouldn't automatically cancel Jesus and revelation. What if God let the earth and us be until the return?
It's possible. That's what I appreciate about Deism. It is a philosophy, not a religion. So, people have different views and opinions when it comes to their personal philosophy pertaining to Deism.
He wouldn't send Jesus in the first place????
But before Jesus, the Bible claims that God directly interacted with His creation. So not really deism.
If you believe that Jesus was a mere human, not sent in a special way by God, who did nothing supernatural, I believe you can call yourself a deist.
However if you believe that God interacts (or has interacted in the past, after the creative process) with the physical world to the point of issuing some revelation, or that Jesus was sent by God, then I don't think you can call yourself a Deist. But this is just my opinion, which is worth little or nothing.
@@Rolando_Cueva not all deists believe that God doesn't intervene with his creation, the only requirement to be a diest is to believe in some sort of a creator but not in religious institutions
my left ear feels quite enlightened
Only one of my earphones work.
Hahaha
Same lol
Im a deist because I believe composition and emergence has no bounds
Just as a human is an emerging property of a certain arrangement of atoms, to me God is the emergent property of all existence
You're programmed by the curriculum that's all
What is the proof for, "Revelation is truth". If there is then which one, out of literally thousands?
In summary, keep yourself tightly bound to your own brand of christianity. Don't look at, read, listen to, anything that your group does not produce, otherwise you'll be doomed. Is that so?
15 years ago I was still a devout Christian. Then I started questioning many things in my religion and I turned to paganism (Wicca, to be more precise). Some tragic thing drove me to that. It didn't last too long and I came back to my original belief in one God (the Creator). However, I chose not to follow any religion due to being too confused about which one was the right one. Today I'm something between an agnostic theist and a deist. But to be honest, I miss the days I was a devout Christian as I had a lot more peace.
Haha yep. That's perhaps the biggest "hook" that religion has to offer to entice one with. "There there, now. It's all figured out. Don't you worry your precious little head about anything. You've got THE answer now! Go have yourself a good time!".
You believe God sits back and watches people suffer horrible deaths or Children and Babies being raped or tortured??? I believe and love God with all my heart I simply believe He does not personally participate in our affairs....all part of free will .......
German Boy Yeah because we don’t know whether god is good or not. If he even gives a shit. We’re like particles compared to a god why would he care which animal we eat and if we masturbate or not?
So are you telling me that people choose to die of a big fire or billions of animals being burnt alive in Australia this year?
@@ketsune23 No never said that. I meant that in order to give us free will...God has to put natural forces in place...gravity.....fire....all sorts of random physical things and then in his perfection he steps back and let's His perfect creation do the rest...
well god did make some rules in our biology that I think are intentionally made to make us suffer. although perhaps it was ignorance and I shouldn't assign feelings of malevolence to a god I have no knowledge of.
But God is all knowing and all powerfull He must alow neccessary evil in order for concept of free will to exist.
The diagram at 11:33 is very helpful. Under each, from left to right, one could add: creation in 6 days (they demonstrating both transcendence and immanence); instant creation; evolution. The underlying basis for the three modes of thinking about the creator.
Thank you Prof Zigarelli for this fresh insights and understanding gained listening to this video.
Isn't the whole goal of all of this to believe in things which reflect reality?
How could there be a battle if we are supposed to be cooperating on the quest for truth?
Shouldn't we try and band together against the ultimate enemies that are ignorance and the unknown?
I mean I think your missing the bigger picture. When the big cultural shift towards valuing truth and logic happened people started not believing in God. What does that say about christianity?
Or in otherwords, if valuing truth above all else leads to not being Christian then doesn't that mean christianity at the very least appears false? That seems like a much bigger issue to me than anything.
If by battle you mean to unite all our forces, acknowledge that God exists, see what God mean to every single one of us. Discuss, debate and try to get a relationship with God. By following God's law first of all, by studying, by acting in God's law.
@@Manu-wb2uv then?
Your logic implies that “knowledge” is only obtainable by means according to current abilities of physical observation. Just as humanity once thought the earth was flat, or before the discovery of infrared/ultraviolet light and means to observe them. Science and God are not incompatible and science actually proves nothing. The scientific method only disproves what is testable and observable and we draw conclusions from that information. “Scientism” is the popular culture narrative that all currently accepted science is virtually infallible and the only source of any knowledge in the universe. As many can see this line of thinking itself becomes a dogmatic religion. Not to negate the power and results of true scientific method, but even now at the deepest levels of quantum analysis we have many unanswered questions that directly negate Newtonian logic and prove that there is a subjective nature not just woven into consciousness, but the very physical fabric of physical existence. I think that the cultural monopoly and consolidation of global powers pushes this flawed “Scientism” doctrine just as the ancient Roman Catholic Church used Christianity to control thought and maintain order. Both of those institutions are incomplete and impure in their logic and motivation. But that’s a different topic I suppose...
@@tradingjedi63 if God was real but unobservable then that situation is identical to God not being real. Otherwise we could simply track the differences and that would make him observable.
If God is real and observable then science would be perfectly applicable to figuring that out and his properties.
And if God is not real then he obviously can't be observed.
Also, anyone who knows how science works knows better than to claim that the current theories are infallible.
Also also nothing in my original post implies any of this. I just said that since people that value and seek truth according to this video end up becoming athiests/deists, that must mean that Religion appears false to those people, and thus that the correct next step shouldn't be "so we must ignore whatever sources they used to reach that conclusion" but should instead be "so we should evaluate those sources ourselves to see if our own views hold up to scrutiny because if so many people who scrutinize this type of thing find that it's not sufficiently substantiated then it should be worth looking into."
In other words disbelieving in God is only bad if God is real. And if God is not real then disbelieving in him is good. Given that you are attempting to believe in true things and not false things of course, if you have different goals then you may reach a different conclusion.
Also I'm noting that you haven't actually pointed out any flaws in the scientific method.
Nor any preferable alternatives.
Trust me, if we (humanity) find a better method of determining truth instead of science we will use it. But so far science has produced the best results compared to any other method attempted by far.
@@tradingjedi63 any response to the commenter below?
So if I believe that god (maybe some being from a higher dimension) only made the big bang happen, but everything after that happened in a natural way. And if someone shows me proof that it wasn’t even an entity that was responsible for the big bang I’ll easily accept it.
Then am I a deist?
The question then becomes what even has given you the idea that there even is a God and the idea that he's not involved
Could you think of god as the clock maker? He designed the universe to work a certain way and then wound it up.
I’d say you are the right track but minus the whole Big Bang thing. Like someone I heard say, “this epic video game was created and given rules. Now we live out this existence until it’s over.”
You are free to believe what you want to but the evolutionary science and Big Bang theory we’ve been taught is as much a religion as Islam. No evidence for anything to have happened 4.5 billion years ago. So… faith?
God is the programmer. We are the protagonists. The earth is the battleground.
No heaven. No hell. Only existence.
An agnostic deist yes.
@@ServantNathaniel It's called using your brain, just like in math. Denying logic itself to deny God, is actually a proof he exists.
I have never been able to square the idea of a loving Creator with the cruel intolerance and subjugation of Christianity. That is what caused me to 'drift' into Deism. I've never felt more at peace with my place in the Universe
I don't know why I listened to the very end. Thanks for the great Reminder. ☺
now i know that i am a deist😃
You absolutely cannot deny cause with logic or with Physics.
I am gonna introduce a very powerful sentence about religion. We know that, there are a lot of religions out there. I associate religions with people's ideologies. Every religion is different. And the person, who belongs to a certain religion, claims that his/her religion is the best. Religions are man made. That is all. I used to be a muslim but then i became deist. I realized the problems with my religion. We know that islam divides into 2 parts: shia, sunni. And intriguingly the people who are sunni posit that they are in the true way, or vice versa for shias. This is just ridiculous. Even in a single religion, there are several controversial issues. It also refers to christianity. In the end, i strongly believe in God. I am a very strong believer, but as i mentioned below, i do not follow any religion. Choose the right way. Book recommendation: sapiens, a brief story of time by Yuval Harari. Read a lot of books, then you will realize the truth.
alr sir
What is the punishment for leaving islam , according to Quran or Imams ? Sorry , i just "heard" that in taliban's way, death is the punishment
Christian Deism is very possible. Shame that Christianity doesn't appreciate and allow for that view to exist
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
John 17
How do you want to contradict the words of the Lord?
May Reason Prevail!
I remember when one of my nephews was around 5 years old, he was sitting waiting for his father to turn up for a day out (he was separated from my sister) and after a few hours I had to tell him that his father wasn’t coming. He insisted on waiting but his father never came and I sat and watched while his heart quietly broke. I’m moving towards Deism because my heart is quietly broken and the father never shows up. If god is here, how can he return at the end of revelation?
Sad story. :(
Any life run on self-will can hardly be a success. On that basis we are almost always in collision with something or somebody, even though our motives are good. Selfishness-self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles. Driven by a hundred forms of fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, and self-pity, we invariably find that at some time in the past we have made decisions based on self which later placed us in a position to be hurt. So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making. They arise out of ourselves.
Above everything, we must be rid of this selfishness. We must, or it kills us! God makes that possible. And there often seems no way of entirely getting rid of self without His aid. Many of us had moral and philosophical convictions galore, but we could not live up to them even though we would have liked to. Neither could we reduce our self-centeredness much by wishing or trying on our own power. We had to have God’s help.
This is the how and why of it. First of all, we had to quit playing God. It didn’t work. Next, we decided that hereafter in this drama of life, God was going to be our Director. He is the Principal; we are His agents. He is the Father, and we are His children. Most good ideas are simple, and this concept was the keystone of the new and triumphant arch through which we passed to freedom.
When we sincerely took such a position, all sorts of remarkable things followed. We had a new Employer. Being all powerful, He provided what we needed, if we kept close to Him and performed His work well. Established on such a footing we became less and less interested in ourselves, our little plans and designs. More and more we became interested in seeing what we could contribute to life.
As we felt new power flow in, as we enjoyed peace of mind, as we discovered we could face life successfully, as we became conscious of His presence, we began to lose our fear of today, tomorrow or the hereafter. We were reborn. We were now at Step Three. Many of us said to our Maker, as we understood Him: “God, I offer myself to Thee-to build with me and to do with me as Thou wilt. Relieve me of the bondage of self, that I may better do Thy will. Take away my difficulties, that victory over them may bear witness to those I would help of Thy Power, Thy Love, and Thy Way of life. May I do Thy will always!"
@@KeithGreenshields God only has unconditional love, and does not recognize any man invented concept of "sin"
@@leusmaximusx However you forget the consequences of flesh. We are sinless in our born again state but will suffer for wrongs in the flesh, is why we need the Holy Spirit by dependence to work through the flesh in a way pleasing to God. Why else does it say not to grieve the Holy Spirit?
@@KeithGreenshields we never had any sin in the eyes of God, for sin is only a manmade invention.
What you are saying are just normal challenges of life that we must overcome as our role in this existence, we must learn from our mistakes and from mistakes of others, by using and developing our God given gifts of talents, FREEWILL and inalienable Human RIghts and FREEDOM.
God knows we are not perfect and sends to us his Holy Spirit whenever we choosse his WILL. God's WIll is LOVE TRUTH JOY JUSTICE and CREATIVENESS. The Holy Spirit is GOd's WILL.
God knew the weakness and strenghts of our flesh, because he created us, all humans are Gods children, Jesus Christ is our brother. His Love is everlasting thats why there is no need to FORGIVE us.
Jesus doesnt condemn us, God doesnt condemn us, only zealots and agenda-driven characters do.
We pay for the consequences of our actions by our suffering which God have no part. There wil be no hell or punishment as these are just strawmen fallacy preached to put fear and obedience by ordinary self anointed men who are realy slavers and opressors of freewill
Free yourself from trying to be good for God, he doesnt need it, God wants you to do good on your fellowmen love them, forgive them from their transgressions unto you, do not chain them to bigotry of human lie called SINS. Do your duty to your government and create beneficIal things from your time and talents for the bettermen of this world that God had created for every living creatures. Waste not your time from useless religions and enforced moralities and harmful actions. Our current time is finite and every day that we are born again as we awake, will also end. Time is God's MANA from heaven.
Give thanks and pray for wisdom and enlightenment and Freedom from oppressive religions based on tribal propaganda books invented by man. Share the true Gospel of Jesus, that i had shared with you in this mesage.
To God be all the glory, in Jesus name, halleluyah !
Shalom !
Deism makes the most sense. A higher god created a universe but left it alone but the archons took over and are posing as the abrahamic god.
The Archons warrant an explanation though
I believe in Ethical Deism, meaning that there's a dotted line back and forth between God and Man. God, at least, calls us to be good. We worship and connect to God by doing his will, that is by being good and resisting evil. This is consistent with Zoroastrianism and (non-pauline) Christian Deism.
makes sense when you beg God for help your whole life 40+ years and never once experienced help when you needed it. The whole relationship is one-way!
Keep seeking sir. Those who seek Him with a humble heart will find Him. But He reveals himself in his own timing and terms, not ours.
A simple response would be a question: How do you know that God is the god of Deism?
He may use a cosmological argument, but he will run into the problem of personality and communication since his god is not a god of revelation.
There is not only one definition of "God" in deism, but the main idea is that he is the Creator of the universe, some people say that it's all, some other says he must be perfect and stuff. Basically Deism is rejecting religions but not the belief in "God".
I was raised Catholic but was never truly a Christian at all. I just couldn't bring myself to believe these wild old stories but at the same time, never & will never doubt the existence of a creator. Science explains how the natural laws of the universe work. Physics, chemistry & biology but no one can explain WHY they work the way they do. Some think that it's just random happenstance that they just so happen to work this way. The others think it was designed to work this way. The latter has always been more reasonable in my opinion. I will never not be a Deist.
Very interesting. YT immediately played me a Richard Dawkins video right after this one. Eerie.
Am I a deist? I believe in a creator but I don't believe we can find it through religion but through science in the far far far future.
Can someone help me im not sure what i would be considered but here are my beliefs. God is everything and everyone from consciousness to atoms. I dont believe in heaven or hell. I dont believe in jesus. I believe that sins are mistakes to learn from but also karma you get what you give and those deep sins are burdens you will have to carry for the rest of your life sufferI believe in the duality of happiness and suffering, and that one can not exist without the other. Something morals are societal while others are common sense( as in you know when your doing something bad, you can feel it in your gut) i believe that reality is moldable by your own thoughts and choices but need excision to take form. Best description i can give
6:17 No, not necessarily. In the deist view, incarnation could still happen. DNA itself could be an incarnation of God, even if only a very limited and at times flawed incarnation.
As for atonement...well, when you do something wrong, it is still your responsibility to make it right. That said, I respect the Christian insistence that even our best shot still falls miserably short of perfection. I agree with this - wholeheartedly!
I am a former diehard Christian myself. And even I still find that there is so much in Christian thought that is beautiful and absolutely true. But I'm not convinced that the Bible is entirely inerrant. I follow more of a pre-Christian Platonic and Stoic understanding of God.
be true to yourself and concider your ways, that simple, that easy... everyone can do it!
Bonus: Government from Latin, guvernare/guverno to control
ment/mentis mind
thus mindcontrol
Organised religion is a social construction where man has interpreted, and been involved in, contaminating thruths to fit the fantasy, whereas natural principles of God's beautiful creations are observable through nature. I believe in God's world over God's word; a clear and distinct separation of God and religion, with a direct connect to the former and bypassing of the latter.
My son: "Father, why did God put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the middle of the garden knowing that human beings would eat from it?"
Me: "...."
My son: "And why did Cousin Jennie go to hell forever?"
I will answer this in terms of the Muslim faith. Since God is all knowledgeable, he knows that Adam and Eve would eat from the tree even though he ordered them not too. However, there is wisdom behind everything that God does. He told them not to eat from that tree even though he knows that Satan will tempt them and that they will eventually eat from it due to the temptation of the devil to show them how the devil is able to deceive humans into doing sin and evil. And this is a reminder for all of us humans not to follow the devil and his temptations.
O children of Adam! Do not let Satan deceive you as he tempted your parents out of Paradise and caused their cover to be removed in order to expose their nakedness. Surely he and his soldiers watch you from where you cannot see them. We have made the devils allies of those who disbelieve. (Quran 7:27)
@@rakanalajmi6169 And why did God create the devil, knowing in advance everything he was going to do?
And why did He put him in the garden of Eden, knowing he would lead humans into sin?
@@davidpinheiro9650 ُThe answer to these questions is that ultimately life is a test in which God separates the ones who believe in him and follow his guidance from those who disbelieve and sin.
˹He is the One˺ Who created death and life in order to test which of you is best in deeds. And He is the Almighty, All-Forgiving. (Quran 67:2)
And a part of that test in life is whether or not people are able to resist the evil temptations of the devil. However, God is just and did not leave us without guidance. Instead he sent down his guidance in the form of revelation to his messengers in order for them to convey that guidance to humanity, and he has shown us the path of truth and the path of falsehood and has warned us of the devil and his temptations.
O believers! Do not follow the footsteps of Satan. Whoever follows Satan’s footsteps, then ˹let them know that˺ he surely bids ˹all to˺ immorality and wickedness. Had it not been for Allah’s grace and mercy upon you, none of you would have ever been purified. But Allah purifies whoever He wills. And Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing. (Quran 24:21)
Furthermore, Satan's deception is weak as God did not allow him to have any control over humanity, with exception to those who follow him and worship him.
Indeed, My servants - no authority will you have over them, except those who follow you of the deviators. (Quran 15:42)
Therefore, if someone were to follow the devil's footsteps and fall into sin and evil, even after God's guidance has been revealed, then they will have no one to blame but themselves.
And Satan will say ˹to his followers˺ after the judgment has been passed, “Indeed, Allah has made you a true promise. I too made you a promise, but I failed you. I did not have any authority over you. I only called you, and you responded to me. So do not blame me; blame yourselves. I cannot save you, nor can you save me. Indeed, I denounce your previous association of me with Allah ˹in loyalty˺. Surely the wrongdoers will suffer a painful punishment.” (Quran 14:22)
@@rakanalajmi6169 Thank you for your answer. However, I prefer the simpler explanation.
That God did not create the world in 6 days, nor did He create the devil, nor set up a mousetrap to "test" Adam and Eve (knowing in advance what would result) using the devil for this, nor put the species in pairs within an ark, nor created tongues because of a tower, nor destroyed the life and family of Job to boast before the devil.
I prefer the more logical and linear explanation: that God never wrote the Bible (or Koran).
@@davidpinheiro9650 I understand that you have your opinion and belief just like I have mine. However, I would like to add that simpler does not necessarily mean true.
I would even argue that what you are proposing is actually the more complex/illogical outcome. If you do believe in God then why do you think he would create us and give us a mind and intellect and free will only to abandon us and leave us to do whatever we want whenever we want however we want and never be held accountable for our actions? Did all the criminals who ever walked the face of this Earth till the end of time get away with their crimes? No guidance would mean that no one would be held accountable for his deeds, since according to this belief, God doesn’t care about his creation.
Did you then think that We had created you without purpose, and that you would never be returned to Us?” (Quran 23:115)
And if you don’t believe in God whatsoever, then the evidence against you would be even worse. Everything in our universe from our hearts pumping oxygenated blood continuously throughout our complex organ system keeping us alive without us even noticing to the continuous rotation of the Earth resulting in a shift in day and night cycles allowing us to work and sleep respectively to the pouring of rain from the sky bringing forth trees, flowers, fruits and vegetation for our consumption points towards a creator who is continuously watching over us and taking care of us for a reason. And that is the only logical explanation.
I don't subscribe to any ideology. I believe in god/gods/creator.
The purpose of creation is only known to Him, that's why he never reveals Himself. We are here to follow good/love which is in our instinct given by God without being ordered. Because God only wants us to experience the love in Godless condition or by freewill, He sent us here to experience God/love without its assistance or presence on our own by our actions and emotions. Suppose a parent sets free his children to play a video game in which he can do any thing love hate good bad anything and thus experiencing what is good to do on his own and when he/she finishes his game sometimes they learn something sometime not, they are allowed to play more by reincarnation. In the end there is no crime done in the real world all this life is just like a video game but including all the feelings. And thus God never punishes because He didn't allowed any soul to hurt really.
I don't know what ideology this belongs to but this is what I understood.
Secularism is "the principle of separation of the state from religious institutions". It has nothing to do with belief, or non-belief, in a god or gods.
The Christian religion did a wonderful job of convincing me to not be Christian. Deism convinced me not to believe in Deism. Theism, atheism, pantheism, agosticism, same outcome. I do believe fully in God, though. I don't need an organised religion or definition of my belief to have that belief.
Amen!
You can drift away from Christianity easiest because there are less repercussions, you won't be killed for doing it. THANK YOU CHRISTIANITY!! This is my stop, I'm getting off.
Thank Deus
I Didn't hear ANYTHING
Well, given that they believe in "moralistic" deism, then the "therapeutic" must be limited by ethics. So, I don't think his claim about dating 30 women at the same time is fair.
1:38 seems like a fitting punishment lol 😂
If you feel an immanent God it's because he exists. If you feel that there is no immanent God it's because there are reasons we can't understand (so continue to believe in old jewish book)
The only reason people feel an immanent god would be because they want to believe that there is a higher being looking out for them.
"If Something I feel is right, it's right. But you feel something is right, it's wrong". What an amazing logic
@@dzdawlatzwamel9795 I don't think that I said that
@@dzdawlatzwamel9795 I don't know how it's connected to what I said
@@alekseykasaev8706 You imply that people's opinions do not matter, only yours, which is that God is immanent, does. So if someone feels that God is immanent, it is because it is the truth. On the contrary, if someone feels that God is not immanent, it is because he is ignorant.
I have much more peace now that I left Christianity with all the man made dogma and superstition and guilt. Deism is not a drifting away from God. It’s was a epiphany.
I believe something created the universe and moved on. I didn't know what this was until I learned about deism.
The Bible is the story of Yahweh's fulfilled plan of redemption given exclusively to ancient Israelites cursed with the Old Covenant Law of sin and death and pertains to no one alive today. Here's more.....
If you believe the Bible, then you'd have to agree with Jesus in Matthew 15:24, that he only came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
You'd have to agree with Jesus in Matthew 5:18, that no jot nor tittle of the Old Covenant Law would pass away until the Old Covenant system, temple and people associated with it (what Jews referred to as "heaven and earth") passed away.
You'd have to agree with history, that the Old Covenant system, temple and people associated with it passed away in AD 70.
You'd have to agree with Paul, who said in Romans 5:13, "Where there is no (Old Covenant) Law, sin is not taken into account." This of course means that salvation was only needed by those who had sin taken into account, which is not us today.
You'd also have to agree with Hebrews 9:15, that redemption was only for those who sinned under the first covenant, which again...is not us today.
The bitter pill of truth is that nobody has been saved nor redeemed for nearly two thousand years. The "church" has been in a massive error; a complete hijacking of ancient Israel's redemptive narrative.
"But...but...I'm a gentile1" Are you? The gentiles Paul and the disciples were preaching to were either Greek converts to Judaism, or the elect diaspora, grafted-in descendants of the tribes of Israel who had been dispersed among the nations. Through the ministry of the disciple's great commission, they were called out from the nations to again be a holy nation of kings and priests, to be sealed for the day of redemption, which only they lived to see. Nobody today is a gentile of that sort.
Today's self-appointed "christians" have been hoodwinked into believing they're sinners under a law that passed away, and need a savior who said he came for someone else, who will save them from a sin that's already been removed, and a judgement that already happened, and allow them into covenant that was made with someone else. The fact is, we today were never and are not part of ancient Israel's redemptive narrative. ~Michael Bradley
The Bible: It's Not About Us!
If this was supposed to help bring me back to Christianity then it failed in an epic way lol
I became an atheist when I realized I hadn't ever heard or felt God. I became an antitheist when I realized how people I grew up under used God and their beliefs in Him to control me and hurt me and justify their terrible actions.
I hope your doing well, but power is the corrupting force, at least power over a gullible population.
@@varalderfreyr8438 I really don't care for your apologetics. God may not be directly at fault but people were able to muddy the waters enough that my child brain formed an image of him that was horrible. I can't change that nor do I feel it is my responsibility to. If God is truly just I will not be held to account but rather those who manipulated my image of him in his name
Not all atrocities are done in name of god, dude.
A contradiction is an impossibility and a miracle is an impossibility that only God makes possible. Do you believe in miracles? I have written on God that would settle the debate between religious people and atheists because both are wrong having arguments to be right because God exists as irrefutably as a mathematical truth and the religious god doesn’t as hatred is not perfect love. If everything needed to be created nothing would exists, therefore God exists. I exist therefore i was created or always existed and the creator was created or always existed, therefore an eternal entity exists. A miracle or impossibility possible is the existence of infinitude. Can a car go at infinite speed, have a painting infinite colours, start a race an eternity ago, have a football pitch infinite space? It is impossible, unless it is God, that can make the impossible possible. God was not created because if God was created i would not exist. If the universe was eternal the universe would be a miracle, God. The universe is an infinitesimal part of infinite God that is everything that ever existed, exists and would exist, the eternal miracle of Life and Death, the origin of the creation because nothing existed before and everything was created after from Self because nothing is created from nothing and nothing is destroyed into nothing unless nothing is something, an impossibility possible or miracle, God that is existence and non existence. Philosophy, logic, rational thinking alone proves the existence of God but humanity choose to ignore, reject the arguments that contradict their vision of reality. God is not an entity separated from the creation as the creation comes from Self. God is the first cause uncaused, the infinite Creator and the finite creation, one Life and multiple lives, same Life and different lives, All reality and fiction, the miraculous Game of Life and Death transforming in time. God is neither created nor destroyed, only transformed alive or dead, when all life die and God die becoming deterministic movement, like growing nails in a corpse, a memory of the past without new minds created in the present because life comes from life, love, union, truth. Humanity is lying to self because don’t understand that we all are in the same and different Boat of Life and Death and the life of any creature is God’s Life past present and future, I am the same and different person than i was yesterday and I would be tomorrow impossibility possible miracle God. Hell and heaven is ourselves for eternity til endless death when all life die and God die becoming a memory of the eternal history of God, like a still picture or growing nails in a corpse. Would you like to know the absolute truth, all eternal reality? Only a fool wouldn’t like to know the truth, even if unpleasant. Would you like all to know all? Only if you are honest. If being yourself for eternity doesn’t scare you you are honest. To die is to resurrect in the past of God to know everything and judge ourselves with perfect justice, perfect knowledge and be rewarded or punished with heavenly or hellish psychology for having lived the Game of Life and Death wisely or foolishly for eternity. All creation and destruction stays in God because God is existence and non existence because nothing existed before and all is created after. Nothing can not exist unless is something, an impossibility possible or miracle, God. The mind is created and not destroyed and the Life of God keeps having lives living in the present and resurrecting in the past.
deism is simply warmed over atheism.
Not really
This is not correct and I wish you would take it down. This is absolutely not correct. DS do believe in God. We do believe in miracles. We do believe in the supernatural. We do have a close relationship with God. I don't know if I would I don't know if I would necessary consider myself a DS but I believe in God I love the King James version Bible. But I also do a love a lot of other religions and their beliefs because they all have some of the exact same foundations. I know that's a trigger from many people but that's usually a trigger for people who've never even bothered reading something else other than one book from one religion. Take a year or two and read about 10 to 12 different religions and you're going to find the same foundations. The one thing I've learned in my life is that not to tell others what they should or shouldn't believe in but let them follow their own path. That's the freedom of choice that's been given to you by any god of any kind of any generation. The freedom of choice the right to live. Religions add more complication on top of some basic fundamentals and that's when all the wars and tribulations have been cars around. Sins have been amplified because people how are more garbage on top of garbage on top of basic principles.
I condone all deism in Jesus name. I serve only God. Politics may believe there's a God but do not keep His words but write and teach their own sinning forefathers Garbage. God calls all deism and it's writings. Spittle. So do I !
You've got it all figured out, don't ya?
You know what God thinks? And can speak for him? Amazing!
Maybe you should learn the difference between "condone" and "condemn" before speaking on issues you know nothing about
Today's self-appointed "Christians" wrongly conflate the Supreme Creator of the world with the Biblical War God Yahweh, the Bronze Age tribal deity of the twelve tribes of ancient Israel along with His Son Jesus the Christ of ancient Israel.
"I only came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel." ~Jesus the Christ in Matthew 15:24 first century
This guy did not learn about EDITING in college
fortunatly i didnt watch the whole thing as its, at the end, a christian apologetics to my surprise and discust. I AM drifting toward deism as god, defined as jesus, does not love u unconditionaly. Thats a fat out lie im sorry to say. people who claim to love you dont threaten genocide to the majority of humanity and then sentence them to hell if the 'love' isnt returned. If you love something let it go, if it cones bk to u, its yours. If it doesnt, it never was. Peace.
Incorrect. God is loving but he is also just, thereby his justness causes him to punish as He is perfect. It's incorrect to say that if God loves he wouldn't punish.
Excellent comment! Thanks Chis!
The New Testament is infinitely more macabre than the Old.
In the Old, people were stoned, groups of people were killed.
But in the New the overwhelming majority of the world's population burns forever.
Yea deism is more my cup of tea. And I’m not a tea fan
Do you believe in a creator i.e. God, Dog, Dave, whatever word you want, the frredom of choice has apparently been given to us, but if like me you don't follow one of mans' main murderous religions (which I hate) i.e. Christianity, Islam, Judaism etc., because you see the moral and social problems caused by these organised/manipulated religions? I admit there is nothing provable or unprovable but my own logic from 57 years (brought up catholiuc) says this viewable projection (everything we see and feel) must have been created; even if it is just a learning simulation (xbox game etc.) for humans 1,000 years into the future, what is the closest lable you have found for what you believe in so far? I am continuing to look for an answer....
Prof Zigarelli - your entire presentation is load with extremist examples. If your extreme 'Diest' examples are true then please do the same for the 'extreme' God fearing religious examples (Russian Church currently, etc.). If all HUMANS believed and acted as if they 'were citizens of the world and religion were to do good' (Thomas Paine - Deist enemy #1, is that the ultimate freedom and love.
The purpose of life here is to attempt to heal this world. If you can't see how tortured this planet is, you are lost.