I am proud to say I have done the same. I appreciate greatness no matter which brand. I realized I was causing myself to miss out on great engineering feats just because of the name plate. I love to see the manufacturers compete because it’s bringing out greatness for the public. That being said... I think I just decided which engine is going in my project Camaro. 😎
1991tommygun...I say AMEN!...Brother!...I am a Old School kinda Ford Guy and I Believe that a Ford engine should be in a Ford Built Car even if its a Custom Built Ford Car with a upgraded engine swap! The same goes for the Chevys and Mopar Cars!...God Bless!
@@mytruthslays1303 LOL!!!!! Right up until you crack the block trying to desperately make 1000 HP from it. Daily and reliable????? You must be smoking Hunter's crack.
@@DiabloMEX-AMERICAN669 your right man. I grew up a chevy guy but man when these coyotes go twin turbos they eat up everything. The chevys have to be built to keep up. Still love the head to head from chevy & ford
You know ive always been you can make all brands fast kinna guy, but soon as i see first shit talker against Chevy " not you" some primal shit just starts spewing from me hah
Yeah i like chevy and fords just depends on what it is but u can't beat the new version of the l.s.7 427 double overhead cam 4 valves per cylinder engine 860 hp stock .but then again u can't beat a 70 high boy with the dana 60/80 for a 4x4 strongest truck ever built . u mite say i have a lot of good rigs just i like certain rigs for the purpose that it is for like i have a 70 high boy built up for off-road and a 79 chevy short box for looks for the street then a 68 chevy short box for a street truck with a stroked 454 tunnel ram . cars i have a lot of them restored and all ways building them just never sell them chevy , fords and mopars i have some really good collectors but been building and collecting for over 40 years . just give my kids a rig each one took a 67 chevy pu the other one took a 74 baja bug that was all deck out with 10 inch speakers custom body good for street or off road has the 72 bus transaxle
Kind of built from a Ford platform but updated . 1970 Ford came out with the 351 Cleveland . Good head flow . Too bad the Cleveland died in North America because of 🛢 oil arguments and emissions. Development would have been sweet for the 351 4V Cleveland .
The Ford is HUGE...lol! 10 feet of timing chains, LOL... The LS platform is FAR more adaptable to pretty much anything. From my moms Tahoe, to a motor home, to "stuff a V-8 swaps", to 1800HP sand rails, to BAJA1000 trucks, to 24 hour Le Mans, to experimental AIRCRAFT, to ((MARINE -7 outboard boat engines "awesome")) & on & on & on. If you consider the (finds / deals) on LS parts & pieces everywhere on earth if you have patience, you can cut the cost per HP way down. Or build a Civic with a coffee can size exhaust tip!
I'm a diehard blue blooded Ford guy, but I will admit that the LS is top of the heap. You can build any engine to make buckets of power, but how many of them have 6 bolt mains? Making power is one thing. Keeping the engine together and fitting that engine into a car is another thing. Lots of power in a STRONG, small(ish) package. That's a winning combo. Nobody can deny that.
You're not a 'blueblooded Ford guy' or else you wouldn't be saying dumb stuff like that, especially if you know anything about the Coyote. Taken straight from a Camaro page, perfectly summarizing how the Coyote will make more HP for less than an LS3: www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=457243&page=2
@ Michelle and Chainheart, you are both idiots. For one, I never said ford blows. Ford dominates the NASA American Iron series among plenty of other races. The GT has come back and taken LeMans again. Bottom line is that Ford builds better cars. However, since I'm not a 12 year old fanboi little child, I can admit that there other manufacturers do sometimes get something right. The Coyote is the first factory Ford engine that can compete with the LS, and how long did it take Ford to finally do that? The Coyote is a good engine, but in my post, i said, "smallish package." The coyote heads are nearly as big as the block. I doubt you can realistically build a coyote for as cheap as an LS. That article compares a junkyard 5.0 to a crate LS. These 2 quotes sum it up nicely. "Simply put, a brand new, performance-based Coyote engine can’t be built for under $10,000... The LS3 is definitely an easier engine to build new. They’re a simple in-block cam configuration and virtually everyone in the aftermarket makes something for LS engines." Yes, the Coyote is a great engine, as are the Ford Ecoboost offerings. Ford engines are king when it comes to power per cube. However, when an unbiased builder wants as much power possible for less money, they often times go with an LS... in a Ford.
If you're blue blooded you should know how easy it is to find a junkyard $350 tall deck windsor, throw a carb and some AFR heads on it with a serious cam in a Fox and walk over anything LS.. which has been around decades before an LS. This marketing BS has made everyone forget everything that came before 1990
So the bottom line is, the LS makes more power, at lower more useable rpms, in a smaller package, that's cheaper to buy, own and modify, in a simpler design with less things to go wrong. There's no arguments here really.
"Thank you for providing us with the direct-port nitrous, uh, injection, four-core intercoolers, an' ball-bearing turbos, and titanium valve springs. Thank you."
Power Automedia, great video. PLEASE!! Do the exact same engine dyno comparison with a LS3, & a 6.4 392 Hemi.., or a Stroked but Left N/A 6.2 LS3 to 7Liters vs an N/A 6.1 370 Hemi stroked to 7Liters
Between the LS and Coyote, you’re gonna get an awesome engine regardless of what you choose. As someone who loves both ford and Chevy, I’m proud to wave both flags!
Coyote is a great engine, but LS engines are just so much cheaper to build, you can buy a 6.0 block from a Chevy truck for $700 and put some ported 799 heads for another $700 and a cam for $300 and boooom +450hp torque monster that fits in a miata engine bay.
Mike Rollins eBay has a LQ4 block for $675 and junkyards sell them for around the same price,, I also found a set of 799 heads for $400 on eBay. You can probably get better deals (like ported heads) on forums as well.
put it up against the ls miata in a road course and get spanked due to the bulky unbalanced weight distribution not to mention lack of power. The ls is a smaller in physical size engine making more power and is able to sit farther back in the engine bay to improve weight distribution and handling which you wont have with that coyote crap miata
Cool, they managed to build a Coyote that makes LESS torque than stock? WTF? Who are these guys? Let Kaase or Accufab have a shot at this build. They at least know what the hell they are doing.
"Right behind them"? Ford is leading the way by far. They create more power with less displacement. The LS in this test had more than 70 more cubic inches. Shit, a Ford 2.7 V6 outpulls a 6.2 liter LS.
@@jameslandon4126 Less cubic inches really means nothing when the physical mass of the assembled engine is still larger. In the long run, what good is it to say ‘i mAkE mOaR pOWeR oN lESs cUbIc inCh’ when your engine is larger, heavier and needs 1000 more rpm to make less power? And DOHC is undeniably less reliable than simple pushrod technology. That torque curve of the LS is flat as a kansas highway and it makes gobs of torque early in the power range. That translates out to a better feel and a more reliable design
@@WolfPackM98c your argument is based on bullshit buddy, heres why dohc engines are bigger take 4 example a sohc or an ohv 4 cylinder engine the dohc engine is bigger in head design by some margin at the same a no sohc or ohv engine is going to be comparable in power, power delivery to say for example a vtec or a vvt or vvl when it comes to same cc no matter what or where your 2valve engine comes from these engines rule because of this. For this reason the coyote is superior in design and efficiency. Yes the ls can ve had in bigger cubes but it cant compare at the same cubes if you can then take a 6.2 ls dohc it would outperform 6.2 ls this is wgat was said and by te way putting vvt on the dohc one will yield even power than the straight dohc.
+Devin Adams these two engines were picked because they are in two vehicles thay compete the 5th gen SS camaro and the last mustang GT. they wanted to see what you could do with a $10,000 budget. for both engines if they wanted to they could have gone a lot further with unlimited budgets.
Anyone out there shocked that an old school pushrod LS beat the crap out of a newfangle DOHC Ford? If so smack the stupid out of your head right now. The LS is the most popular engine swap out there right now for good reason, hella good power and torque out of a compact lightweight package, Ford has never built an engine that can compete with that. Now to be fair the Coyote engine will likely work better boosted then the LS but if you are looking for an all motor setup the LS is the way to go.
The reason people LS swap is cost. LS engines are cheaper and more available. If you matched displacement, the LS would lose all day long, and they even said that. GM keeps just stuffing huge displacement into their vehicles to compete and I guess there's nothing wrong with that. Ford used tech, GM uses size. My BIL went through 3 Camaro's trying to compete with a stock Mustang 5.0. Started with a V6 and moved up to a SS auto, then an SS 6SP. He finally bought a ZL1 and then got iced by a GT500. Now he drives a GT350. He learned the error of his ways.
Jared Just remember that it took GM over a liter to beat the coyote with the LS3. The coyote (or god help you the voodoo) would annihilate the GM 4.8l if they were to do these builds again.
@@177SCmaro I could care less if there were a 10L displacement difference, the LS is significantly lighter, more compact, and makes more power. That means all other factors being the same it is the better engine regardless of the difference in displacement. I don't know why the hell people think we need to cut the Ford engine a break for it's lesser displacement, they made it big and heavy without the displacement or power, normally I would just call that bad engineering, why would Ford add the weight/complexity/size of DOHC heads to an engine that does not have the revs to use it to it's full potential I have no idea but they did, so now they can claim more Hp per cubic inch but the bowtie beats them everywhere it actually counts.
@@noname18463572 The Ford engines are also delicate. Even the Ford guys say if you hit the limiter at the track they will spit the timing chains off. The Coyote makes more HP/per Cubic inch strictly because of the 4 valve heads. They are Apples to Oranges. The LS can make more power out of a MUCH smaller and lighter package. Nor to mention the reliability or the LS is amazing Look at all the 5.3 GM trucks out there with 300,000 plus miles on them. I've been an ASE certified Tech for 25 years and You couldn't pay me to own a 5.4 or Ecoboost Ford. I've seen too many come in with thousands of dollars in engine work just outs of the warranty.
Good comparison. I will always take torque for a street car over high rpm horse power. Like many have stated, it would be cool to see an LS3 vs 6.4 Hemi. I think the results would be very close from 3000 to 6800 rpm's. Maybe if we all ask they will accommodate?
Ive built both.... 6.4 would destroy an LS3. The problem with the Hemi is the cost... way more expensive than a GM Ls as we all know. Im more of a GM guy but people dont realize how good and strong those Hemis are.. they get a short stick due to the cars Dodge puts them in!
I'm curious about something. On the gains over stock category, he spoke of the 2013 Mustang's advertised power numbers, but the motor they used was from a F-150 and it's advertised numbers are 360 hp. What gives?
if you would have read in the article both engines are 11:1 they just used a f-150 block www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/dyno-testing/ls3-vs-coyote-budget-shootout-results-the-winner-is/
You can make a killer engine out of either, it just depends on how much you are willing (able?) to spend but I have to agree... out of the box the LS is a better engine. I have an LSA in my CTS-V and so far it has been a fantastic engine.
mpg and durability/reliability is more important for most people then tq/power. personally I have a feeling the dual overhead coyote wins in both categories
Very interesting comparison. The smoother curves of the LS suggest it would be consistently a much smoother engine in almost any driving situation. Correct?
It doesn’t mater. Theres so many other comparison to take in consideration. The LS will always be better because of its configuration. Smaller, lighter, better hp per gallon and pound. Way to go!
Pushrod motors allow you to get much more displacement in a smaller and lighter package. It’s just reality. Overhead cams are cool but the physical size and weight of the motor just goes up and up. It’s why hp per liter isn’t a great measure. That 6.2 is physically smaller, lighter, better mpg, and easier to make power.
Nicole Smrekar That’s exactly why hp per liter isn’t a good measure of comparison. It’s deceiving. The coyote has less displacement, but is a much physically larger motor and is heavier, like I explained above. Clearly you don’t work on cars if you don’t think the LS is easier to work on. Even the Coyote guys won’t dispute that. Plus I said easier to make power. Can a Coyote make an increase of 100hp with a $250 camshaft? Again, even the Coyote guys won’t dispute that. Both motors have merit and I have loved the Coyote powered cars I have driven. The LS is just a better all around motor in my opinion.
@@ardyshane23 It's 50 pounds heavier withno accessories, fully assembled the LS3 is actually 7lbs heavier. So while it's bigger (Just got a great look at it as we're doing a Boss 5.0 to 5.3 block right now). IT's actually not heavier in the car. And you're speaking from inexperience, the Coyote is way easier to work on. I get it, you're a fanboy. Let me stop you right there. People don't buy camaros to mod them. lol You're talking about 1 in 1000s of people. vs 1 in 10 coyotes. Further Direct quote "My 2010 SS made 99Rwhp more with LTHs, cams, CAI, and tune". So no you're not getting 100HP out of cams, keep dreaming.
@@Star.Chaser The LS3 is only slight larger than the Miata I4 and the weight difference compared to an aluminum block LS3 is very small. Having 3 times the displacement doesn't mean it's going to be 3 times larger physically. Pushrod V8's are insanely compact, which partly why they are such a popular engine to swap into nearly everything. They don't have massively large heads with lots of cams and timing chains. ruclips.net/video/LAcXtvhqTaY/видео.html
Should have spent the money on stroking the ford and chevy. The rods and piston were a Waiste of money on both other then evening out compression. The stock internals could take those hits. Strokem, change cams, and intake and letem eat.
It's not really the bottom end that hurts the LS when it comes to revving, it's the fact that the valvetrain in a pushrod engine is MUCH heavier than with an overhead cam engine. Now, you CAN make a pushrod V8 rev well beyond 8000 RPM but you have to spend a LOT of money upgrading the valvetrain to make it stronger and lighter. Still, I DO love short stroke, over square engines, and putting the shorter crank in WILL make the engine rev higher easier because of lower piston velocities, and there IS a point where shortening the stroke is necessary in order to allow the engine to rev higher, but in the case of the LS3, it's the valvetrain that limits how high it can rev.
+Ryan Barbolt a broader curve is more useful than a peaky one. And yes the ls3 has vvt. Which is irrelevant to these guys not utilizing the coyotes tech. Their building it thinking it's just like any pushrod engine. When it's a whole different ball park.
Like I said...Ls wins.,,by a landslide of torque. if they bored the Coyote why didn't they bore it out to 6.2 liters? Because that would cost your first born and it's tuition money.
Well the ls3 engine is over a liter bigger, I should hope it would make more power. By the way, the Coyote makes about 1.69hp per cubic inch whereas the LS only makes about 1.48hp per cubic inch.
Who cares either way. You go with what ever floats your boat. Both are well engineered engines. The LS engines were designed to be a smaller package and easier to maintain than the Coyote. During the histories of both auto makers, Ford has always tailored their engines for a specific set of parameters and chassis be damned because they didn't always work out all that well. If you're a true motor head than you really don't care much about the name on the engine, only the specs and how ir reacts to modifications.
If you're a true motor head than you really don't care much about the name on the engine, only the specs and how ir reacts to modifications. SO TRUE...... ANDS THATS WHY YOU'LL FIND MORE LS engines in built fords than coyotes in everything else combined.
Ya but everyone and their brother is building 5.3s nowdays. Heck do it anyway... Gotta be a hundred built 5.3s im sure they could dyno or do it themselves.... But rhats going even more of the "opposite way"... Original Budget was 10k to buy AND build said engine. The 10k cap is already killing rhe Coyote. Atleast the LS3 is a little pricy, them "junkyard 5.3s" are like 3-500$ shoot just pull a 5.0 from a junked F150 with the 5.3 to be even more fair..
That is again of the Coyote isnt $5k and the 5.3 $500... The build would pretty much already be over before it started. But I said it once and Ill say it again, there's a reaskn why so many other car makers use Ford engines. Not just the Coyote, but even the V6s and 4 cylinders. And also I will say that if you see a Coyote swapped car that its probably got a 99.9% chance of looking stock. Id give the LS builds. 50/50 on that catagory.. (Have seen a lot of backyard LS swaps tho)
transamman305 I love the fact 5.0 mustangs are still so hated by Chevy guys 30 years after they came out! Must have sucked getting beat with 48 more cid for so long .
@510eroc I can’t count how many LS Camaros I’ve beaten on the street and the track with nothing more then gears and intake and exhaust 12.80 na. In my Foxbody.
lmfao 🤣 Only because the boneyards are littered with GM trucks and vans that the body’s rotted off or the drivetrain failed. Dirt cheap is the reason for people Doing the ls swap! That’s the reason!!! My car is a 6 speed supercharged, runs 10’s now. But back in the day it ran 12’s NA
@510eroc Think what you want, I couldn’t give a rats ass! Your a bow tie guy, and good for you ! But like I said I’ve beat tons of LS cars on the street and the track! Get your Whipple charger. And hopefully I’ll see you on the track. Best of luck
Wow guys great science. Man I was looking at 2017 Camaro 1SS but Chevy does not want to back off their price of almost $7,000.00 more then a bottom line 2017 Ford Mustang GT. So I have looking at Ford, As I have always been a Chevy guy with my first LS1 Formula Firebird, your tuned Coyote is rated less on the dyno for torque @ 390lbs. 2017 factory 430 HP & 400 LBS torque. Now factory Chevy LT1 (not LS3) is rated at 455hp & 455lbs. No replacement for displacement. Think I'll just save and keep with what I know run's the best ... CHEVY ... Great Science Guy's... I love this math & mechanics. That's why I work on Jet's. One of my greatest experience's was working on a P&W F101 from a F-15 and spooling the Turbine to 106% Sea level. Looks like an SS is in my future. Only if I could afford the Callaway Camaro SC630 ...
Your welcome, I was crossed between ordering a 2017 Camaro SS or 2017 Mustang GT. So here we go, the fabled small block Chevy vs the small block Ford. The LT1 with it's 8 speed auto was much more thrilling then the 6 speed manual Coyote. I plan on going the Pro-Charger path with this next vehicle. The Super Sport was in the range of $7,000.00 more then the GT. I have read a lot of wonderful things that FORD is about to do with their 2018 refresh of the Mustang GT and her Coyote Powerplant including more HP & most wanted more Torque? I have a torn full through tear in my right tendon at my shoulder. So in my best interest, I must go automatic in this new ride. Besides the rumor of the Coyote having a substantial increase in power I have learned that the 2018 Stang GT will have an option of a new co-developed GM & FORD 10 speed Automatic that from reading should be an option in all the V8 Mustang GT and up to the higher level Stang's. Do you gentlemen have any idea's on this the 10 speed auto, as well as, the enhancements labeled not only for the Coyote but anything at all on the new Mustang? I have been a life long Chevy Small Block Guy who is about to change. I have a very good speed shop 5 minutes from where I live called," Evolution Performance", I have seen wonderful things done here at this shop. In Fact, when I get this new vehicle, I have decided to be patient a wait for the 2018 Mustang GT. I plan on doing a Pro-Charger Supercharger to her. Please if you science guy's can give me any kind of data like the refreshed powerplant, the refreshed car herself and of course the new 10 speed automatic or even the size of rear that is planned to come with this new automatic. I would be very appreciative. The Super Sport was a beast almost in the Super Car Class itself. I feel the refreshed Mustang GT with it's new 10 speed Automatic, new factory exhaust compliments and last but definitely not least the Pro-Charger installed with the large amount of money saved at purchase between the two car's will make the 2018 Mustang GT into a Super Car. Please reply with any and all thought's to help me ensure I am purchasing the best car for the money and what I have planned for her ... Thank You Robb ...
+Jared Bossart I don't think that John Hennessy would do something like that. The only one who could do this is the guys from Engine Masters from Motor Trend Channel.
Thatone_guy thats like me wanting to compare the f450 vs the 3500HD! You know the Chevy guys would bitch so fast! You would never compare them because they aren't in the same class. Get the point yet Chevy guys?!
comparing a 5.0L versus a 6.0L and you claim a winner? that is about as dishonest as one can be. Displacement is king. Proper use of displacement is what matters.
Great test but predicable that more cubes equals more torque, I believe it's you Americans that like to say "There 'aint no replacement for displacement" and I agree. The great thing about the LS3 is the amount of capacity in such a small package, it will fit into some pretty small cars.The heads on a four valve motor are just huge with DOHC, Audi V8, BMW or Lexus 1UZ all massivly wide motors as is the Coyote. There's really nothing wrong with pushrod motors for street use, with less parts, lower friction and smaller packaging, just a lower redline. A lot of modern engines have turbos and pretty low redlines anyway so could easily be pushrod and 4 valve if necessary. How many people really nail the engine to the redline whilst going about their daily business apart from the boy racers? We in Britain are limited with the cheaply available V8's to 4 valve motors which are just big and so very powerful so we have to use boost to make up the shortfall. Much easier to use a pushrod LS and if that's not enough you can still boost! By the way, pushrods are not quite as crap as many would think, I've seen a Ford kent 1300cc pushrod motor that will rev to 13,000 rpm! yes, you read that right! Ok, so it took a lot of racing trickery and money but it can be done.
Frank Smith There are some “small” displacement V8s that spin astronomically high. There’s a video floating around of a old Nova with a 265 cid V8 that revs well over 10k... supposedly to 13k. I can’t verify the rpm, but it sounds like it’s revving faster than a NASCAR engine, and those hit 10+k rpm.
Ford is going back to the Pushrods on their new Gasoline Super Duty trucks. Mainly for reliability, lower CG, less weight, less complexity, & better torque.
I actually thought OHV was a dated technology in the past - kind of blows my mind how GM was able to take the OHV pushrods to the modern era & still give modern DOHC 4v VVT designs a headache.
The Chev is an amazing engine. A four valve head though and VVT is what is going to come to all of us. It will be due to emissions and so on. Consider that if you go to a four valve/cylinder head you are able to increase the valve area by 40%. The valves though are smaller so you are able to use a more aggressive cam profile. This is a major advantage over an OHV set up. So how Chevy overcame it all and did so well, is phenomenal.
the coyote needs to be tuned by someone who knows what their doing. i cant believe you guys even showed that hp tq graph with it being all over the place
Steve has Dyno hundreds if not thousands of engines and KNOWS with a valued honest opinion. Truly 30 years or more experience he is a scholar of knowledge and experience. Outstanding teacher for Old and young.....
you better check that again. sbf has always made more power. chevy has always had to make more cubic inch. hell we have 306's running 5 sec 1/8 mile times. bet you wont see a 305 chevy running that.
@@tremail12 WHATTTTTTTT?! BITCH Ford had to make a fucking V10 to try and compete with the chevy 8.1 and STILL COULDN'T COMPETE. I've never seen someone say something so completely wrong and be serious. How do you look at yourself in the mirror knowing you're that full of shit?
@james robinson - Not always, Bro. Shelby GT 350 Mustang with a little 289 beat the snot out of the bigger 327 Corvette for SCCA B Production Championship 3 years in a row - 65,66 and 67.
So why wasn't anything brought by ford motor company 2 yrs before when they wheeled and dealed with the government behind closed doors? OH BECAUSE FORD WAS MAKING SHIT SINCE ITS BEGINNING.
William Stewart on their website they have the weights listed and I believe it was 415 pounds and the coyote was 430 pounds so they were close with the ls3 being a bit lighter.
William Stewart I think he might be right I was under the impression it was 420 LS and coyote 445..... yeah it's close it's just you'd expect an way "larger " motor to be alot heavier
This was published in 2016, with the 2nd generation Coyote out for two years -- and that motor stock makes 400 torque stock -- two more pound feet than their built motor? I'm skeptical of the tuning choices and or parts.
I think you are right about the tuning and/or parts choices. Like some else said I think they actually handicapped the LS by comparing new parts to used ford parts. For $10k they could have gotten more out of an LS.
That's true -- I'm a fan of both -- I have a 2015 Mustang, so obviously a Coyote fan, but yes -- the LS is also an amazing choice -- got hit last week, and waiting to see what happens insurance-wise -- I'm considering a switch to an LT (Stingray), though with the cylinder deactivation and direct injection, I don't know if I want to go that route -- and I'm a little "meh" on the Corvette styling - but maybe that's okay.
@@mjobusch Honestly now.....you don't think it is at least a little embarrassing for Ford that decades old Chevy motors are still largely the motor of choice and still giving new top shelf Ford motors problems?
Fords have always produced more power-per-displacement unit than G.M. or Mopar engines. Their only downside is the cost of parts versus the competitors. ("Buy cheap, buy twice" is a true statement in my opinion, but this was a budget video) They're comparing an old engine with overproduced performance parts to a new engine with less parts, so the LS3 definitely had an advantage in the 'budget' competition. Great video - very fair & informational.
Simple answer: 2JZ holds a slight edge due to the increased displacement. Sure, you can stroke the RB to 2.9L (Largest I saw on 5 second search), but you can also stroke the 2JZ to 3.5L. Both seem to be capable of similar power, but again, I keep seeing the 2J to have a slight advantage.
Just did some digging after running into a term I had never heard of before: Grouting. Grouting is the act of filling the water jackets in the block, to strengthen the block. I head that people have witnesses factory RB26 blocks splitting at around 680 kw to the wheels (910 hp). www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/429446-strengthening-a-rb26-block/ Meanwhile, 2JZ blocks? People are saying they can make 1100-1400 hp, before you need to look at grouting, or reinforcing the block. www.supraforums.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-536496.html So, I think that's really starting to mean, to me, that the 2JZ is really, the stronger of the two.
LS is about 23inchs wide at the valve cover. Coyote is about 30. Both engines weigh about the same. Coyote block is slightly narrower and shorter. Aside from the dohc they are pretty comparable. Keep in mind, motor swaps are more then just how wide the valve covers are.
Every body wants to spit back and forth Over chevy vs ford.... truth is Chevy stuck with what works.. If it ain't broke don't fix it/Keep it stupid simple. Which is why everything or practically everything bolts to everything on Gm... If it works why change it. Ford has lots of anagrams by haters Found On Road Dead/ Fix Or Repair Daily etc.. But I would have to say that Fix Or Re-Design would fit. Fords problem is they cant leave well enough alone and continue to "improve" or change thing year to year sometimes mid year. They create there problems because they cant stop changing S***. My friend is a Honda Master mechanic who use to work for a Ford Dealership was paid well like where he worked but one of the reasons he left was he was constantly having to buy new "specialty" tools for every vehicle they released every other year cause they cant stop changing S***. Everyone needs to face it... Ls make tons of power.. there cheap and easy to find... Gm doesn't constantly change things or "improve them" where they wont work with early models (for the most part). After market part are cheap and with minimal work they make good power and the stock rotating assembly will hold up and will fit in everything. Sorry Ford you do it to yourself..
Yea annoyingly GM named their new V8s after the old iron block before the LS. Doesn't' make much sense to me. So now there is the LT1 and LT4. LT1 is in the current corvette and new Camaro.
A couple of apples to oranges comparison. The LS was a new from the ground up for less than $10,000. The Coyote had to use pre-owned parts to get inside that under $10 grand price. Also, given what was tested, what good is the horse power per cubic inch comparison? I could understand using that if the more cubic inches you have equated to a detriment such as heavier or more bulky but in this case the LS was neither of those so that particular parameter was imho useless. And for those that want to say it was useful because IF you were to have a Coyote with x more cubic inches....let me stop you right there. I don't even want to think about how much a super modified Coyote 6+ ltr engine would cost. I mean we all do still live in the real world right? Please don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Coyote and it is an amazing engine, however for those of us with a mortgage, the dollar per horsepower makes the LS the king.
It's super fair. The Ford has twice as many moving parts. Modular motors were a reinvented wheel (I currently have a 4.6, and it's incredible). In real world applications not some "$10,000 is an engine budget" world, II can get 2 LS3's running for the price of 1 Coyote. Then there's the fitment. Why bother cutting up your entire car when the motor that fits right in makes more power? Longevity is the icing on the cake- ever swap a timing chain on a modular? Many shops will not do it (they just don't need the money bad enough). They "recommend" you just buy a rebuilt engine. LS timing chain, just about anyone can do themselves. To be honest, I'm considering a coyote swapped focus. It's becoming more obvious to me why there is only like 1 on the internet.
@@theoriginalcttheoriginalct6938 yeah Ford V8s are massively underrated by the swap community for "complexity" concerns or whatever... It's just variable valve timing... LOL it ain't no fucking Porsche engine
@@glengardner5477 -the closest in size LS is 4.8, which is commonly built to 500hp naturally aspirated. With a$10k budget, one could buy 2 4.8'2 making 400+hp for 10k, and almost 2 crate 6.2 LS's. If the budget were $5k(much more realistic in my world), the Coyote wouldn't be a consideration for comparison purposes. I think that the basis of this build is more for the guy who has more disposable income as a priority...Not the guy who wants the best economy out of his dollar. Also, there is the Ford vs Chevy conversation that needs to be fueled from time to time.
So what really is the point of building a smaller displacement (but larger size, more complex and more expensive) engine if it produces less HP and less Torque? Only reason I see would be for fuel economy and emissions. However, if you look at the EPA ratings, the Vette and the Mustang GT get the same ratings. The Vette is a few hundred pounds less and better aerodynamically but the 5.0 should shine in this area but it does not. My weed wacker's engine gets great HP/Liter specs but that does not make it a better engine. Most of my driving is under 4k rpm so high Torque is for me.
Yep, just try not think about the fact that it took gm over a liter more displacement to beat Ford's 5 liter. Another fun 10k challenge might be the coyote vs the gm 4.8.
The Ford 351's were complete pieces of shit. Period. The 5.0 is the only engine Ford has ever made that's worth a fuck, and it's still not worth half a fuck compared to chevy's worst engines
@@LoathsomeDove The 351 Windsor is a 289/302 with a taller deck for the longer stroke. Same engine for all intents an purposes. They were designed in the 60's and for their time a very good engine. Can't really compare to modern engines. On the other hand you can build a 351 to be more modern and less shitty. Start by getting a new Ford Racing Z351 Aluminum Block or a DART Alum. block casting for a Windsor build and it'll easily compete with the new Coyote all day long, not to mention cost and weigh less.
@@LoathsomeDove the only reason most people use SB 350 over SB fords are price. Plus most of them wouldn't know what to do with a 5.0L, mechanically, if you instructed them.
My new favorite motor is the lingenfelter eliminator spec r motor line up. They have a 454 that revs to 8500 and makes 820hp. Disgusting! Both of these engines are amazing and reliable and I'm proud to have them be American. My favorite is LS tho.
The one thing I took away from this? Is seeing the Dyno graph for the Coyote, and how it just kept wanting to climb. Those heads need a bigger block under them.
andrew srenson they know how to spend their money modular engines been expensive to built why not go the cheaper route ls engines are disposable engines
@@antonford5172 no they just a better engine even if there disposable but thing is how old is ls literally its taken ford years to make an engine to be even close and coyote still is shit and cant beat an old ls gold old bald eagle's my nigga if chevy were to make a brand new v8 engine chevy would literally blow the doors off eveything 😂😂sorry fan boy
The LS winning was all about its displacement advantage.. But, the Coyote motor is a much better design and has a lot more potential, especially if boost is added. And, if you equate the displacement, the Coyote would crush the LS.
The two engines are equivalent. Multiply the size of the engine by the RPM it did it at, then divide it by the horsepower. The resulting numbers are different by less than 10%. All engines are going to deviate by (compression ratio)/(Compression ratio -1)
The LS is cheaper to build or modify, is physically more compact, and just as fuel efficient (if not moreso). 6.2 liters yet makes more power from half as many intake and exhaust halves, 1 cam phaser instead of 4, 1 cam instead of 4, and a timing chain that miles shorter. Yet it's just as compact in external dimensions, weighs the same or slightly less, and bolts up to a dozen different transmissions. There's a reason the LS swap is dogged for being TOO common and there's a reason most guys dismiss a 5.0 Coyote swap due to the costs involved. You can make up any arbitrary calculation you want, but there is an inherent advantage to pushrod V8's. It's why the Ford guys were so hyped up when the Godzilla 7.3 showed up even though it was only intended for the Super Duty trucks. They secretly know that there are huge advantages to 16-valve pushrod V8's. Ford engineers admitted they picked a 16v pushrod design because it was more fuel efficient for the torque and horsepower it would produce compared to OHC designs.
@@wernerziegler6709 I agree, but hear me out. -- On an LS, the lower operating speed makes transmission shift quality better. The lower RPM makes the system safer and more responsive. The higher average port velocity and angularity does make fuel economy and combustion better on average. Plus, you can use the same cylinder head for either side. -- Trust my calculation. When an engine scores low, that just means it has modification potential. The bigger the engine, the badder it'll be. A 6.2 is 20% bigger than a 5.0. That's the mindset for that equation. It's why I like big blocks with symmetric port heads. The new 632 is built that way. -- That said, there are reasons to like the coyote. -- It has straight raised ports, so the width of the torque peak for any given camshaft setup will be wider and cooler running. -- The headers don't get mangled with the spark plugs, which is nice sometimes. -- The spark plugs are kept under sealed coils, which is nice from a maintenance standpoint. -- With a VVT delete, the coyote would be a very nice road-race engine. -- If you grenade a camshaft somehow, a DOHC engine will not destroy the block.
There's no question, the Coyote is great engine... but the LS has higher displacement capacity, makes more power in a smaller overall assembly, is considerably easier to both work on and modify, and is cheaper to upgrade. When it comes to modified performance, the Coyote doesn't stand a chance.
Physical dimensions but bigger crank, rods and pistons, The reason the Ford engine is physically bigger is dual overhead cams vs the LS is still old pushrod.
Not really amazing in any way shape or form. The Coyote had twice as many intake and exhaust valves as well as independent variable intake and exhaust valve timing. Not only that, but the Coyote engine is physically larger than the 6.2L LS3. The LS3 curb stomped the 5.0 Coyote using 1 cam instead of the Coyote's 4 cams, 16 valves instead of 32, and 1 cam phaser instead of 4. All while doing it for less money and using the same amount of fuel.
I personally would never slap an LS on any of my Fords. I do agree even as a Ford guy, that the LS engine is a bad ass little engine. The Coyote engine in the other hand is in its own level cause I have built from Mopars to Chevys to Ford engines and it really depends on what's under the guts of any engine that will make it perform. I've beat big block 454 Camaro's with my little Hipo 289 Maverick. But it all depends on horsepower to weight ratio. My thing is any American engine is fun to build. I remember building a 4.6 on my 99 Mustang GT and I had read that naturally aspirated u would not get more then 400 hp. Guess what after finishing mine I was putting 455hp at the wheels...so it really depends on the math. The LS is definitely a great engine for sure...but don't forget Ford and Mopar have some bitching engines themselves, But will cost more to build in the long run...
Think about it. Now there are four cylinder engines with more horsepower then what the Shelby Mustang had in the 60's. You install the rite pistons, crank,,Rings, heads etc. and you will have a horsepower breathing 4.6 engine that can reb up to 6500-7,000 plus RPM. It can be done it has been done...Im 45 years old and I started working on American Muscle since the late 80's. Ford has gone a long way with Technology. They are no longer grease monkeys but Engineers building cars now. Not only Ford but Every car maker...
Manny Tenorio revving only 7 with a 14:1:0 compression pistons ......with fully built PnP heads and custom ground cams I still wouldn't see it scratching mid 3s much less mid 4s.......from what I've seen.....especially not from stock c.i
I'm not sure if my post is still around but I will look for it and give you the link on RUclips. I don't post much cause I let my work speak for itself. I built a 2001 Mustang for a buddy of mine and he thought what you thought. He said it was not possible to get 400 horsepower out of a 4.6. When he picked up his car he had a smile from ear to ear...he took it to K&N and had it tuned dyno tested. At the rear wheels he pulled 435 with his 4.6. He could have added a few things more to pull what mine did but he didn't do it at the time. He still has it and always calls me to ask if I'm ready. I tell him I'm always ready...
If you had a 372 ci coyote it wouldn't make 631 hp cause it wouldn't rev to 7800 rpm. Look at the power increase with ls3 under the curve, the coyote in an automatic car would be a dogg without atleast 456 gears
I used to be into that whole Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge thing...but then I grew up..and now I just love cars.
🤘😈
No rice fart cans big 3 forever
@@kevinkotchevar2339 v6's are fart cans too so u better have a v8 boah
I just buy the best deal.
I am proud to say I have done the same. I appreciate greatness no matter which brand. I realized I was causing myself to miss out on great engineering feats just because of the name plate. I love to see the manufacturers compete because it’s bringing out greatness for the public.
That being said... I think I just decided which engine is going in my project Camaro. 😎
As a 2013 Coyote owner I have to say the real winner is MURICA. Someone get me a beer.
'Murica
Welcomto America, get it yourself.
Rich Wood fuckin nerd..
I can drink to that haha
MithroJin I'm America we don't give our participation ribbons...
Love how the Ford vs Chevy argument will never die, it's awesome!
Love the Coyote but mad props to the LS engines!
In the end, we car guys and gals win.
I'm sitting here asking how a winner was crowned when they both died😂😂
both good engines, i like a chevy engine in a chevy and a ford in a ford
1991tommygun finally.
1991tommygun...I say AMEN!...Brother!...I am a Old School kinda Ford Guy and I Believe that a Ford engine should be in a Ford Built Car even if its a Custom Built Ford Car with a upgraded engine swap! The same goes for the Chevys and Mopar Cars!...God Bless!
I believe that a Chevy should be in a Chevy and a Chevy should be a Ford
I think Chevy engine in Chevy and Chevy engine in ford
Why not include the Gen III HEMI in the comparison ? The 6.4 heads flow enough to support 700 hp as cast.
Hey it's the guy from engine masters
Edit: how tf did this get so many likes
Jack Carroll yes it’s Steve
No, it's Steve from Westech Peformance.
no its Steve from AllState
I literally said exactly this when I saw him
Also right around 0:58 mark, the guy with the long hair has done tuning in a couple episodes of Hot Rod Garage...I don't recall his name though.
I respect both but choose the LS for its simplicity. Easy to work on and cheaper to build.
Buy a coyote. Put blower on factory sealed coyote. Make 1000+HP (reliable and daily driven) to the wheels. About as simple as you get.
No a coyote won't make 1200hp reliable factory stock. You are hilarious.
@@mytruthslays1303 LOL!!!!! Right up until you crack the block trying to desperately make 1000 HP from it. Daily and reliable????? You must be smoking Hunter's crack.
you said it yourself CHEAPER 🤢🤢 thats why coyotes are faster you gotta pay the price!!!
@@DiabloMEX-AMERICAN669 your right man. I grew up a chevy guy but man when these coyotes go twin turbos they eat up everything. The chevys have to be built to keep up. Still love the head to head from chevy & ford
I'm a die hard Ford fan, but more than that I just love cars. The LS engine is one of the best v8s ever made.
You know ive always been you can make all brands fast kinna guy, but soon as i see first shit talker against Chevy " not you" some primal shit just starts spewing from me hah
Yeah i like chevy and fords just depends on what it is but u can't beat the new version of the l.s.7 427 double overhead cam 4 valves per cylinder engine 860 hp stock .but then again u can't beat a 70 high boy with the dana 60/80 for a 4x4 strongest truck ever built . u mite say i have a lot of good rigs just i like certain rigs for the purpose that it is for like i have a 70 high boy built up for off-road and a 79 chevy short box for looks for the street then a 68 chevy short box for a street truck with a stroked 454 tunnel ram . cars i have a lot of them restored and all ways building them just never sell them chevy , fords and mopars i have some really good collectors but been building and collecting for over 40 years . just give my kids a rig each one took a 67 chevy pu the other one took a 74 baja bug that was all deck out with 10 inch speakers custom body good for street or off road has the 72 bus transaxle
The coyote IS the greatest American V8 ever made.
dont kiss ass to the LS community The Coyotes are better and faster P
Kind of built from a Ford platform but updated . 1970 Ford came out with the 351 Cleveland . Good head flow . Too bad the Cleveland died in North America because of 🛢 oil arguments and emissions. Development would have been sweet for the 351 4V Cleveland .
The result is not surprising, but I would like to see a $20k build. Boost is were the Coyote platform really shines.
Need to do no budget seen coyote do #s well over720hp it all about the dollar
@@hilifesawmper4775I have to with terrible reliability 😁
Throw superchargers on them and see the coyote walk all over the ls3 lol
If that makes you sleep better tonight
Robert Duval works at Westech? Who knew.
Thanks. I knew that guy looked familiar! I'll bet people say that to him all the time. Well Old people do.
Well he was a restorer in Gone in 60 Seconds.
Dude I was thinking the same thing
BOO! That's Steve Brule!
I'm dropping the hammer Harry!
No you're not.
...(hammer dropped)
The Ford is HUGE...lol! 10 feet of timing chains, LOL... The LS platform is FAR more adaptable to pretty much anything. From my moms Tahoe, to a motor home, to "stuff a V-8 swaps", to 1800HP sand rails, to BAJA1000 trucks, to 24 hour Le Mans, to experimental AIRCRAFT, to ((MARINE -7 outboard boat engines "awesome")) & on & on & on.
If you consider the (finds / deals) on LS parts & pieces everywhere on earth if you have patience, you can cut the cost per HP way down.
Or build a Civic with a coffee can size exhaust tip!
@EpiDemic117 its because pushrods are small for there displacement
I’d love to know where in the Sam Hell they found a $1400.00 LS3 😭🤣
Some truck im sure hehe
Got one with heads, decked and bored for 1500. It lives in my den. Can’t wait to build the damn thing.
Junkyards ftw
I said the same thing.. maybe that’s just short block..
I'm a diehard blue blooded Ford guy, but I will admit that the LS is top of the heap. You can build any engine to make buckets of power, but how many of them have 6 bolt mains? Making power is one thing. Keeping the engine together and fitting that engine into a car is another thing. Lots of power in a STRONG, small(ish) package. That's a winning combo. Nobody can deny that.
BOT_ROCKET agreed
BOT_ROCKET top....u said it.....so there u go....ford blows!!!!!
You're not a 'blueblooded Ford guy' or else you wouldn't be saying dumb stuff like that, especially if you know anything about the Coyote. Taken straight from a Camaro page, perfectly summarizing how the Coyote will make more HP for less than an LS3: www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=457243&page=2
@ Michelle and Chainheart, you are both idiots. For one, I never said ford blows. Ford dominates the NASA American Iron series among plenty of other races. The GT has come back and taken LeMans again. Bottom line is that Ford builds better cars. However, since I'm not a 12 year old fanboi little child, I can admit that there other manufacturers do sometimes get something right. The Coyote is the first factory Ford engine that can compete with the LS, and how long did it take Ford to finally do that? The Coyote is a good engine, but in my post, i said, "smallish package." The coyote heads are nearly as big as the block. I doubt you can realistically build a coyote for as cheap as an LS. That article compares a junkyard 5.0 to a crate LS. These 2 quotes sum it up nicely. "Simply put, a brand new, performance-based Coyote engine can’t be built for under $10,000... The LS3 is definitely an easier engine to build new. They’re a simple in-block cam configuration and virtually everyone in the aftermarket makes something for LS engines."
Yes, the Coyote is a great engine, as are the Ford Ecoboost offerings. Ford engines are king when it comes to power per cube. However, when an unbiased builder wants as much power possible for less money, they often times go with an LS... in a Ford.
If you're blue blooded you should know how easy it is to find a junkyard $350 tall deck windsor, throw a carb and some AFR heads on it with a serious cam in a Fox and walk over anything LS.. which has been around decades before an LS. This marketing BS has made everyone forget everything that came before 1990
I'll keep my Chevy powered by Chevy and my Fords powered by Ford.
Built ford tuff with all chevy stuff
@@benlancaster6535 Built Ford Proud by the Chevy crowd!
That's right guys, there's no finer ambition in life than being cheap.
@@benlancaster6535 What a load of BS.
How about the latest Chevy LT engine vs Ford's new mustang engine.
Couple monsters
Yea, that wouldn't even be a fair fight, that new coyote puts out over 700hp. #coyotepower
@@jeffreywillis3066 That's the predator engine, but regardless the coyote is an absolute monster from factory
@@weilandcock yeh voodo engine is good to or? the engine that gt350r has or?
LT is same as LS, All the fast Fords have one!
So the bottom line is, the LS makes more power, at lower more useable rpms, in a smaller package, that's cheaper to buy, own and modify, in a simpler design with less things to go wrong.
There's no arguments here really.
Besides the biggest thing of all, displacement. Not to mention reliability
@@traxxasrcfun and ls still wins in that part to so u can push u stang back to the shop and get an ls
*In Thanksgivng Day*
Thank you, GM, for the LS Engine, im grateful
You mean *crateful* hehehehe amen
Love me some Ls.. Choosing ford would just be "decrating"...👊🏻
you should be thanking Ford for the Ls bud it was a Ford engineerd motor so thanks Ford for screwing your selves just to keep the classic V8
"Thank you for providing us with the direct-port nitrous, uh, injection, four-core intercoolers, an' ball-bearing turbos, and titanium valve springs. Thank you."
Power Automedia, great video. PLEASE!! Do the exact same engine dyno comparison with a LS3, & a 6.4 392 Hemi.., or a Stroked but Left N/A 6.2 LS3 to 7Liters vs an N/A 6.1 370 Hemi stroked to 7Liters
Between the LS and Coyote, you’re gonna get an awesome engine regardless of what you choose. As someone who loves both ford and Chevy, I’m proud to wave both flags!
Coyote is a great engine, but LS engines are just so much cheaper to build, you can buy a 6.0 block from a Chevy truck for $700 and put some ported 799 heads for another $700 and a cam for $300 and boooom +450hp torque monster that fits in a miata engine bay.
Stephen C. Not being funny at all. Please show me where I can get these for these prices.
Mike Rollins eBay has a LQ4 block for $675 and junkyards sell them for around the same price,, I also found a set of 799 heads for $400 on eBay. You can probably get better deals (like ported heads) on forums as well.
Stephen C. Thanks! I honestly haven't searched and those prices are very reasonable. I'll check it out!
I've seen a coyote swapped Miata... just saying.
put it up against the ls miata in a road course and get spanked due to the bulky unbalanced weight distribution not to mention lack of power. The ls is a smaller in physical size engine making more power and is able to sit farther back in the engine bay to improve weight distribution and handling which you wont have with that coyote crap miata
Cool, they managed to build a Coyote that makes LESS torque than stock? WTF? Who are these guys? Let Kaase or Accufab have a shot at this build. They at least know what the hell they are doing.
Let SAM racing have a shot at the LS to see what happens...oh wait they're on a budget.
It made less torque because they put big cams in it.
I suggest you look into what increased duration does to torque curves.
chevy did a good job with the ls. ford is right behind them and i love it when two companies compete to make things better!
"Right behind them"? Ford is leading the way by far. They create more power with less displacement. The LS in this test had more than 70 more cubic inches. Shit, a Ford 2.7 V6 outpulls a 6.2 liter LS.
Ford is right behind them because Gm uses half to make just as much hp and still will always make more torque
@@jameslandon4126 Less cubic inches really means nothing when the physical mass of the assembled engine is still larger. In the long run, what good is it to say ‘i mAkE mOaR pOWeR oN lESs cUbIc inCh’ when your engine is larger, heavier and needs 1000 more rpm to make less power? And DOHC is undeniably less reliable than simple pushrod technology. That torque curve of the LS is flat as a kansas highway and it makes gobs of torque early in the power range. That translates out to a better feel and a more reliable design
@@prod.yayo5715 half of what again. Did you know in engine masters that the dohc engines made so much power they were outlawed in the next series lol!
@@WolfPackM98c your argument is based on bullshit buddy, heres why dohc engines are bigger take 4 example a sohc or an ohv 4 cylinder engine the dohc engine is bigger in head design by some margin at the same a no sohc or ohv engine is going to be comparable in power, power delivery to say for example a vtec or a vvt or vvl when it comes to same cc no matter what or where your 2valve engine comes from these engines rule because of this. For this reason the coyote is superior in design and efficiency. Yes the ls can ve had in bigger cubes but it cant compare at the same cubes if you can then take a 6.2 ls dohc it would outperform 6.2 ls this is wgat was said and by te way putting vvt on the dohc one will yield even power than the straight dohc.
6.4 hemi vs LS3 would be a good one they have to stay N/A and stock displacement no strokers small over bores are allowed.
This.
That would be really cool. More of an apples to apples test since both engines are pushrod design and they have similar displacements.
why not the lt1?
+Devin Adams these two engines were picked because they are in two vehicles thay compete the 5th gen SS camaro and the last mustang GT. they wanted to see what you could do with a $10,000 budget. for both engines if they wanted to they could have gone a lot further with unlimited budgets.
+Duane Craig that's not why I said that....
LS BOYZ FOR THE WIN #LSSwapAlways
Anyone out there shocked that an old school pushrod LS beat the crap out of a newfangle DOHC Ford? If so smack the stupid out of your head right now. The LS is the most popular engine swap out there right now for good reason, hella good power and torque out of a compact lightweight package, Ford has never built an engine that can compete with that. Now to be fair the Coyote engine will likely work better boosted then the LS but if you are looking for an all motor setup the LS is the way to go.
The reason people LS swap is cost. LS engines are cheaper and more available. If you matched displacement, the LS would lose all day long, and they even said that. GM keeps just stuffing huge displacement into their vehicles to compete and I guess there's nothing wrong with that. Ford used tech, GM uses size. My BIL went through 3 Camaro's trying to compete with a stock Mustang 5.0. Started with a V6 and moved up to a SS auto, then an SS 6SP. He finally bought a ZL1 and then got iced by a GT500. Now he drives a GT350. He learned the error of his ways.
@Oggy your comparing car platforms not engines. too many variables.
Jared
Just remember that it took GM over a liter to beat the coyote with the LS3. The coyote (or god help you the voodoo) would annihilate the GM 4.8l if they were to do these builds again.
@@177SCmaro I could care less if there were a 10L displacement difference, the LS is significantly lighter, more compact, and makes more power. That means all other factors being the same it is the better engine regardless of the difference in displacement. I don't know why the hell people think we need to cut the Ford engine a break for it's lesser displacement, they made it big and heavy without the displacement or power, normally I would just call that bad engineering, why would Ford add the weight/complexity/size of DOHC heads to an engine that does not have the revs to use it to it's full potential I have no idea but they did, so now they can claim more Hp per cubic inch but the bowtie beats them everywhere it actually counts.
@@noname18463572 The Ford engines are also delicate. Even the Ford guys say if you hit the limiter at the track they will spit the timing chains off. The Coyote makes more HP/per Cubic inch strictly because of the 4 valve heads. They are Apples to Oranges. The LS can make more power out of a MUCH smaller and lighter package. Nor to mention the reliability or the LS is amazing Look at all the 5.3 GM trucks out there with 300,000 plus miles on them. I've been an ASE certified Tech for 25 years and You couldn't pay me to own a 5.4 or Ecoboost Ford. I've seen too many come in with thousands of dollars in engine work just outs of the warranty.
Good comparison. I will always take torque for a street car over high rpm horse power. Like many have stated, it would be cool to see an LS3 vs 6.4 Hemi. I think the results would be very close from 3000 to 6800 rpm's. Maybe if we all ask they will accommodate?
1967davethewave Hemis are shit all Chrysler products are.
Rob Roy that'd be a good build if the money was endless. Mopar can be wicked but takes a deep pocket.
Ive built both.... 6.4 would destroy an LS3. The problem with the Hemi is the cost... way more expensive than a GM Ls as we all know. Im more of a GM guy but people dont realize how good and strong those Hemis are.. they get a short stick due to the cars Dodge puts them in!
1967davethewave I
Frank289100 Why are you yelling?
I'm curious about something. On the gains over stock category, he spoke of the 2013 Mustang's advertised power numbers, but the motor they used was from a F-150 and it's advertised numbers are 360 hp. What gives?
same motor. They changed the cam and crap, so there's not any difference
F-150 motor runs 10.5:1 compression, Mustang 11:1.
It's not just the cams, intake, and tune that are different.
Also, you don't need to swap the oil pump gears on a NA Coyote, that's wasted money. Stock internals are good till like 700.
if you would have read in the article both engines are 11:1 they just used a f-150 block
www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/dyno-testing/ls3-vs-coyote-budget-shootout-results-the-winner-is/
Richard Head different heads? I know that's what Chevy did
You can make a killer engine out of either, it just depends on how much you are willing (able?) to spend but I have to agree... out of the box the LS is a better engine. I have an LSA in my CTS-V and so far it has been a fantastic engine.
mpg and durability/reliability is more important for most people then tq/power. personally I have a feeling the dual overhead coyote wins in both categories
I'd take either one with a smile on my face!
So would we!!
finally!! both are great engines. each of them has their advantages lol
The best motor ever is the 4.0 Jeep.LAST FOREVER
Bob Quattrini but has a granny stamina
Very interesting comparison.
The smoother curves of the LS suggest it would be consistently a much smoother engine in almost any driving situation.
Correct?
Not going to rev higher than any new technology 5.0 ford mustang
foad 5981 I don’t think that’s what he asked at all😂😂
@@pophamlarry LS doesn't need to rev high. It gets its power from lower rpms amd brute size.
@@drewinhou Brute Size?Yawn.
I think that the LS will always be the mechanics motor. Easy to get parts for and easy to find any LS motor.
5 litre vs 6.2
It doesn’t mater. Theres so many other comparison to take in consideration. The LS will always be better because of its configuration. Smaller, lighter, better hp per gallon and pound. Way to go!
Pushrod motors allow you to get much more displacement in a smaller and lighter package. It’s just reality. Overhead cams are cool but the physical size and weight of the motor just goes up and up. It’s why hp per liter isn’t a great measure. That 6.2 is physically smaller, lighter, better mpg, and easier to make power.
Um that's actually less HP per displacement in the LS, and easier to work on is lolololololol
Nicole Smrekar That’s exactly why hp per liter isn’t a good measure of comparison. It’s deceiving. The coyote has less displacement, but is a much physically larger motor and is heavier, like I explained above. Clearly you don’t work on cars if you don’t think the LS is easier to work on. Even the Coyote guys won’t dispute that. Plus I said easier to make power. Can a Coyote make an increase of 100hp with a $250 camshaft? Again, even the Coyote guys won’t dispute that. Both motors have merit and I have loved the Coyote powered cars I have driven. The LS is just a better all around motor in my opinion.
@@ardyshane23 It's 50 pounds heavier withno accessories, fully assembled the LS3 is actually 7lbs heavier. So while it's bigger (Just got a great look at it as we're doing a Boss 5.0 to 5.3 block right now). IT's actually not heavier in the car. And you're speaking from inexperience, the Coyote is way easier to work on. I get it, you're a fanboy. Let me stop you right there.
People don't buy camaros to mod them. lol You're talking about 1 in 1000s of people. vs 1 in 10 coyotes.
Further Direct quote "My 2010 SS made 99Rwhp more with LTHs, cams, CAI, and tune".
So no you're not getting 100HP out of cams, keep dreaming.
can you guys do a ls3 vs a hemi 6.1 that would be amazing!
LS3 drops into a Miata and looks factory. So compact!
How tf does a ls3 look factory in a miata. It’s like 3x the size.
@@Star.Chaser The LS3 is only slight larger than the Miata I4 and the weight difference compared to an aluminum block LS3 is very small. Having 3 times the displacement doesn't mean it's going to be 3 times larger physically. Pushrod V8's are insanely compact, which partly why they are such a popular engine to swap into nearly everything. They don't have massively large heads with lots of cams and timing chains.
ruclips.net/video/LAcXtvhqTaY/видео.html
Should have spent the money on stroking the ford and chevy. The rods and piston were a Waiste of money on both other then evening out compression. The stock internals could take those hits. Strokem, change cams, and intake and letem eat.
mean gene i couldnt agree more especially from an n/a prospective i wouldve put better heads in the coyote and the gt500 plenum and intake manifold
I completely agree the ls3 wins but there is something about how high a coyote revs that makes it my favorite engine
Now take that same LS3 and put a 4.8 crank in it and you'll hear a sweet revving motor spinning at 8000 rpms and 600 N/A hp
I was just reading about that in Car Craft magazine. cost was a little over $12k for their build
+christians131 i would have expected more to hit 8000
It could be done much cheaper but everything except the 4.8 crank was bought new
It's not really the bottom end that hurts the LS when it comes to revving, it's the fact that the valvetrain in a pushrod engine is MUCH heavier than with an overhead cam engine. Now, you CAN make a pushrod V8 rev well beyond 8000 RPM but you have to spend a LOT of money upgrading the valvetrain to make it stronger and lighter. Still, I DO love short stroke, over square engines, and putting the shorter crank in WILL make the engine rev higher easier because of lower piston velocities, and there IS a point where shortening the stroke is necessary in order to allow the engine to rev higher, but in the case of the LS3, it's the valvetrain that limits how high it can rev.
LS wins..just saved you 10 minutes
I wonder if ford ever gets tired of throwing all this tech at smaller engines and still loosing to pushrod chevys?
+Ryan Barbolt the problem with this vid is that they didn't utilize the tech that ford threw at this coyote
VVT does nothing at peak hp and torque, to be fair the ls3 also has the ability to run vvt.
+Ryan Barbolt a broader curve is more useful than a peaky one. And yes the ls3 has vvt. Which is irrelevant to these guys not utilizing the coyotes tech. Their building it thinking it's just like any pushrod engine. When it's a whole different ball park.
Like I said...Ls wins.,,by a landslide of torque. if they bored the Coyote why didn't they bore it out to 6.2 liters? Because that would cost your first born and it's tuition money.
Well the ls3 engine is over a liter bigger, I should hope it would make more power. By the way, the Coyote makes about 1.69hp per cubic inch whereas the LS only makes about 1.48hp per cubic inch.
ls smaller, lighter, cheaper. no brainer.
Lets bring the 5.4 Cobra Jet motor in this battle.... best motor Ford has ever built.
Lets bring the lt5
Shouldn't a true comparison be stock vs stock? 10k budget build lol
they also showed stock numbers... the LS blew it away.
Ya but who dicides what stock is lol
hp per ci isnt massively important, but hp per lb does
I've never understood why people care so much about the first one and totally neglect the second, makes no sense
Who cares either way. You go with what ever floats your boat. Both are well engineered engines. The LS engines were designed to be a smaller package and easier to maintain than the Coyote. During the histories of both auto makers, Ford has always tailored their engines for a specific set of parameters and chassis be damned because they didn't always work out all that well.
If you're a true motor head than you really don't care much about the name on the engine, only the specs and how ir reacts to modifications.
If you're a true motor head than you really don't care much about the name on the engine, only the specs and how ir reacts to modifications.
SO TRUE...... ANDS THATS WHY YOU'LL FIND MORE LS engines in built fords than coyotes in everything else combined.
I drive an LS3, 2011 Camaro SS daily and love it!
Wow a 6.2 versus a 5.0 and the 5.0 is only 40hp less in peak power. Good job Ford!!
And down 100lbs of torque
It's down 40hp...across the board..thats huge..and torque by a huge margin.
Do a 5.3 vs coyote. Similar displacement
doesn't mean anything
Ya but everyone and their brother is building 5.3s nowdays. Heck do it anyway... Gotta be a hundred built 5.3s im sure they could dyno or do it themselves.... But rhats going even more of the "opposite way"... Original Budget was 10k to buy AND build said engine. The 10k cap is already killing rhe Coyote. Atleast the LS3 is a little pricy, them "junkyard 5.3s" are like 3-500$ shoot just pull a 5.0 from a junked F150 with the 5.3 to be even more fair..
That is again of the Coyote isnt $5k and the 5.3 $500... The build would pretty much already be over before it started. But I said it once and Ill say it again, there's a reaskn why so many other car makers use Ford engines. Not just the Coyote, but even the V6s and 4 cylinders. And also I will say that if you see a Coyote swapped car that its probably got a 99.9% chance of looking stock. Id give the LS builds. 50/50 on that catagory.. (Have seen a lot of backyard LS swaps tho)
738 pissed off 5.0 mustang owners
5700 LS swapped mustang owners
transamman305
I love the fact 5.0 mustangs are still so hated by Chevy guys 30 years after they came out! Must have sucked getting beat with 48 more cid for so long .
@510eroc I can’t count how many LS Camaros I’ve beaten on the street and the track with nothing more then gears and intake and exhaust 12.80 na. In my Foxbody.
@510eroc
lmfao 🤣
Only because the boneyards are littered with GM trucks and vans that the body’s rotted off or the drivetrain failed. Dirt cheap is the reason for people Doing the ls swap! That’s the reason!!! My car is a 6 speed supercharged, runs 10’s now. But back in the day it ran 12’s NA
@510eroc
Think what you want, I couldn’t give a rats ass! Your a bow tie guy, and good for you ! But like I said I’ve beat tons of LS cars on the street and the track! Get your Whipple charger. And hopefully I’ll see you on the track. Best of luck
Wow guys great science. Man I was looking at 2017 Camaro 1SS but Chevy does not want to back off their price of almost $7,000.00 more then a bottom line 2017 Ford Mustang GT. So I have looking at Ford, As I have always been a Chevy guy with my first LS1 Formula Firebird, your tuned Coyote is rated less on the dyno for torque @ 390lbs. 2017 factory 430 HP & 400 LBS torque. Now factory Chevy LT1 (not LS3) is rated at 455hp & 455lbs. No replacement for displacement. Think I'll just save and keep with what I know run's the best ... CHEVY ... Great Science Guy's... I love this math & mechanics. That's why I work on Jet's. One of my greatest experience's was working on a P&W F101 from a F-15 and spooling the Turbine to 106% Sea level. Looks like an SS is in my future. Only if I could afford the Callaway Camaro SC630 ...
Thanks for the support!
Your welcome, I was crossed between ordering a 2017 Camaro SS or 2017 Mustang GT. So here we go, the fabled small block Chevy vs the small block Ford. The LT1 with it's 8 speed auto was much more thrilling then the 6 speed manual Coyote. I plan on going the Pro-Charger path with this next vehicle. The Super Sport was in the range of $7,000.00 more then the GT. I have read a lot of wonderful things that FORD is about to do with their 2018 refresh of the Mustang GT and her Coyote Powerplant including more HP & most wanted more Torque? I have a torn full through tear in my right tendon at my shoulder. So in my best interest, I must go automatic in this new ride. Besides the rumor of the Coyote having a substantial increase in power I have learned that the 2018 Stang GT will have an option of a new co-developed GM & FORD 10 speed Automatic that from reading should be an option in all the V8 Mustang GT and up to the higher level Stang's. Do you gentlemen have any idea's on this the 10 speed auto, as well as, the enhancements labeled not only for the Coyote but anything at all on the new Mustang? I have been a life long Chevy Small Block Guy who is about to change. I have a very good speed shop 5 minutes from where I live called," Evolution Performance", I have seen wonderful things done here at this shop. In Fact, when I get this new vehicle, I have decided to be patient a wait for the 2018 Mustang GT. I plan on doing a Pro-Charger Supercharger to her. Please if you science guy's can give me any kind of data like the refreshed powerplant, the refreshed car herself and of course the new 10 speed automatic or even the size of rear that is planned to come with this new automatic. I would be very appreciative. The Super Sport was a beast almost in the Super Car Class itself. I feel the refreshed Mustang GT with it's new 10 speed Automatic, new factory exhaust compliments and last but definitely not least the Pro-Charger installed with the large amount of money saved at purchase between the two car's will make the 2018 Mustang GT into a Super Car. Please reply with any and all thought's to help me ensure I am purchasing the best car for the money and what I have planned for her ... Thank You Robb ...
I want to see these two engines again without any limits. Stroker, heads
, cam, everything but no power adders.
I think John Hennessy is the man to see about that.
+Jared Bossart I don't think that John Hennessy would do something like that. The only one who could do this is the guys from Engine Masters from Motor Trend Channel.
True...hennessey builds both ford and gm...and he sells both...so id imagine he'd rather make sure both sell.
Hennesey is good at doing basic bolt-ons and selling them at ridiculous prices to rich folks
Yeah, bro. Venom GT? 1,200hp/270mph, HA! I build those in 5 minutes for $5.
Chevy= winner for hp/dollar
Ford= winner for hp/displacement and better engineering
I want to see the 5.8 out of the Shelby vs the LS.
grabber 5.0 no homo
I want to see the LS7 out of the z06 against the 5.8.
And i want to see the ls9 out of the zr1 vs the 5.8...
I love the vette vs mustang arguments. What I never hear from you guys is vette vs ford GT since thats top of the line vs top of the line lol
Thatone_guy thats like me wanting to compare the f450 vs the 3500HD! You know the Chevy guys would bitch so fast! You would never compare them because they aren't in the same class. Get the point yet Chevy guys?!
How bout do the two engines again and do the same thing to both engines that would be a better comparison!
Next time start with a mustang engine not the truck engine, the mustang engine is 417 hp not 360 hp!
comparing a 5.0L versus a 6.0L and you claim a winner? that is about as dishonest as one can be. Displacement is king. Proper use of displacement is what matters.
The LS motor was revolutionary. It redefined small block V8's.
@fitty6pickemup is that why owners of older mustangs are replacing their Ford motors with Chevy LS motors?
Great test but predicable that more cubes equals more torque, I believe it's you Americans that like to say "There 'aint no replacement for displacement" and I agree. The great thing about the LS3 is the amount of capacity in such a small package, it will fit into some pretty small cars.The heads on a four valve motor are just huge with DOHC, Audi V8, BMW or Lexus 1UZ all massivly wide motors as is the Coyote. There's really nothing wrong with pushrod motors for street use, with less parts, lower friction and smaller packaging, just a lower redline. A lot of modern engines have turbos and pretty low redlines anyway so could easily be pushrod and 4 valve if necessary. How many people really nail the engine to the redline whilst going about their daily business apart from the boy racers?
We in Britain are limited with the cheaply available V8's to 4 valve motors which are just big and so very powerful so we have to use boost to make up the shortfall. Much easier to use a pushrod LS and if that's not enough you can still boost!
By the way, pushrods are not quite as crap as many would think, I've seen a Ford kent 1300cc pushrod motor that will rev to 13,000 rpm! yes, you read that right! Ok, so it took a lot of racing trickery and money but it can be done.
Frank Smith
There are some “small” displacement V8s that spin astronomically high. There’s a video floating around of a old Nova with a 265 cid V8 that revs well over 10k... supposedly to 13k. I can’t verify the rpm, but it sounds like it’s revving faster than a NASCAR engine, and those hit 10+k rpm.
Ford is going back to the Pushrods on their new Gasoline Super Duty trucks. Mainly for reliability, lower CG, less weight, less complexity, & better torque.
I actually thought OHV was a dated technology in the past - kind of blows my mind how GM was able to take the OHV pushrods to the modern era & still give modern DOHC 4v VVT designs a headache.
The Chev is an amazing engine. A four valve head though and VVT is what is going to come to all of us. It will be due to emissions and so on. Consider that if you go to a four valve/cylinder head you are able to increase the valve area by 40%. The valves though are smaller so you are able to use a more aggressive cam profile. This is a major advantage over an OHV set up. So how Chevy overcame it all and did so well, is phenomenal.
I bet a 5.3 would've beat that coyote lol! LS POWAH!
No it wouldn't that's why they chose the 6.2 they needed as much advantage as they could get LOL
@@MrCAPSco could have made over 1500hp with a ls for 10k
The 5.3 don't have a chance
Hell, i will do the same with a 4.8 truck engine.
"There is no substitute for cubic inches."
right these two don't have the same cubes to begin with
There is no replacement for displacement! ;)
the coyote needs to be tuned by someone who knows what their doing. i cant believe you guys even showed that hp tq graph with it being all over the place
And who tunes with a sct... Both shuda made more power... A Na ls makes a mean power curve at closer to 13.2-1
I don't care Ford or Chevy both engines are amazing
The Torque on that Ford is really terrible. GM's LS engines are just the best V8's made.
I drive a Ford so Im impartial.
The torque is not terrible, you are comparing a 5.0 with a 6.2. Torque will be always on the bigger engine side.
Always said GM needed more cubic inch to be on fords level. Per cubic inch GM can’t hang with ford
Bro are you serious, DOHC vs Old pushrod tech, just wait when Chevy comes out with there 5.5DOHC motor on the C8 Z06 which is said to make 625hp N/A
Steve Brulé really summarized the benefits of the LS motor perfectly at the end.
Steve has Dyno hundreds if not thousands of engines and KNOWS with a valued honest opinion. Truly 30 years or more experience he is a scholar of knowledge and experience. Outstanding teacher for Old and young.....
Wonder if he keeps track of the motors after they leave?
first : it s not a ford
second : ls parts are way easier and way cheaper than the turd parts
Steve is the MAN !
It's been like forever for this video to come out.
I'll take a Windsor over the Coyote anyday.
Is anyone surprised? The chevy small block has always been a winner
Fuck yr. Chev all the way.
you better check that again. sbf has always made more power. chevy has always had to make more cubic inch. hell we have 306's running 5 sec 1/8 mile times. bet you wont see a 305 chevy running that.
@@tremail12 WHATTTTTTTT?! BITCH Ford had to make a fucking V10 to try and compete with the chevy 8.1 and STILL COULDN'T COMPETE. I've never seen someone say something so completely wrong and be serious. How do you look at yourself in the mirror knowing you're that full of shit?
@james robinson - Not always, Bro. Shelby GT 350 Mustang with a little 289 beat the snot out of the bigger 327 Corvette for SCCA B Production Championship 3 years in a row - 65,66 and 67.
@@tremail12 how about a Chevy DZ 302.
This advertisement was brought to you by General Motors Corporation with the help of the US Government.
So why wasn't anything brought by ford motor company 2 yrs before when they wheeled and dealed with the government behind closed doors? OH BECAUSE FORD WAS MAKING SHIT SINCE ITS BEGINNING.
Dead😂
Sounds like someone can't stand that chevy builds best engine's. Ford engine's always pos compared too Chevy
Would of been cool if you guys weighed the assembled longblocks to see the difference. Maybe try it with an LT1 now?
William Stewart 4 what? anyone knows the coyote is heavier
Rodolfo Munoz I'm a technical person, "it's heavier" doesn't cut it for me.
William Stewart on their website they have the weights listed and I believe it was 415 pounds and the coyote was 430 pounds so they were close with the ls3 being a bit lighter.
Duane Craig Thank you, I figured it would be somewhat close.
William Stewart I think he might be right I was under the impression it was 420 LS and coyote 445..... yeah it's close it's just you'd expect an way "larger " motor to be alot heavier
This was published in 2016, with the 2nd generation Coyote out for two years -- and that motor stock makes 400 torque stock -- two more pound feet than their built motor? I'm skeptical of the tuning choices and or parts.
I think you are right about the tuning and/or parts choices. Like some else said I think they actually handicapped the LS by comparing new parts to used ford parts. For $10k they could have gotten more out of an LS.
They did the test with a first gen Coyote -- for 10k they could have crushed both engines they built.
@@mjobusch had they spent more wisely they could have crushed both engines with a used LS too!
That's true -- I'm a fan of both -- I have a 2015 Mustang, so obviously a Coyote fan, but yes -- the LS is also an amazing choice -- got hit last week, and waiting to see what happens insurance-wise -- I'm considering a switch to an LT (Stingray), though with the cylinder deactivation and direct injection, I don't know if I want to go that route -- and I'm a little "meh" on the Corvette styling - but maybe that's okay.
@@mjobusch Honestly now.....you don't think it is at least a little embarrassing for Ford that decades old Chevy motors are still largely the motor of choice and still giving new top shelf Ford motors problems?
Fords have always produced more power-per-displacement unit than G.M. or Mopar engines. Their only downside is the cost of parts versus the competitors. ("Buy cheap, buy twice" is a true statement in my opinion, but this was a budget video) They're comparing an old engine with overproduced performance parts to a new engine with less parts, so the LS3 definitely had an advantage in the 'budget' competition. Great video - very fair & informational.
The one thing that is never seen, the RB26DETT (Skyline GT-R) VS 2JZ (Supra) both Japanese legends
Simple answer: 2JZ holds a slight edge due to the increased displacement.
Sure, you can stroke the RB to 2.9L (Largest I saw on 5 second search), but you can also stroke the 2JZ to 3.5L.
Both seem to be capable of similar power, but again, I keep seeing the 2J to have a slight advantage.
Just did some digging after running into a term I had never heard of before: Grouting.
Grouting is the act of filling the water jackets in the block, to strengthen the block. I head that people have witnesses factory RB26 blocks splitting at around 680 kw to the wheels (910 hp).
www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/429446-strengthening-a-rb26-block/
Meanwhile, 2JZ blocks? People are saying they can make 1100-1400 hp, before you need to look at grouting, or reinforcing the block.
www.supraforums.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-536496.html
So, I think that's really starting to mean, to me, that the 2JZ is really, the stronger of the two.
God bless the mighty LS
Comparing apples to oranges - due to displacement alone. Really a trivial pursuit.
Now put boost on them...
Engine external dimension and weight would also be interesting stats, that LS motor with the OHV design fits a tight light package
LS is about 23inchs wide at the valve cover. Coyote is about 30. Both engines weigh about the same. Coyote block is slightly narrower and shorter. Aside from the dohc they are pretty comparable. Keep in mind, motor swaps are more then just how wide the valve covers are.
Every body wants to spit back and forth Over chevy vs ford.... truth is Chevy stuck with what works.. If it ain't broke don't fix it/Keep it stupid simple. Which is why everything or practically everything bolts to everything on Gm... If it works why change it. Ford has lots of anagrams by haters Found On Road Dead/ Fix Or Repair Daily etc.. But I would have to say that Fix Or Re-Design would fit. Fords problem is they cant leave well enough alone and continue to "improve" or change thing year to year sometimes mid year. They create there problems because they cant stop changing S***. My friend is a Honda Master mechanic who use to work for a Ford Dealership was paid well like where he worked but one of the reasons he left was he was constantly having to buy new "specialty" tools for every vehicle they released every other year cause they cant stop changing S***. Everyone needs to face it... Ls make tons of power.. there cheap and easy to find... Gm doesn't constantly change things or "improve them" where they wont work with early models (for the most part). After market part are cheap and with minimal work they make good power and the stock rotating assembly will hold up and will fit in everything. Sorry Ford you do it to yourself..
LS all day long. Do love the powa the yoties too.
now time to do a LT1 vs Coyote shootout!!
Why? Because Ford needs to go agents a 1980's engine to win?
Mutt Head what?... no because GM made a newer LT1 engine?..
Yea annoyingly GM named their new V8s after the old iron block before the LS. Doesn't' make much sense to me. So now there is the LT1 and LT4. LT1 is in the current corvette and new Camaro.
Oh. Thanks GM....
why not just do the lt1 vs the voodoo 5.2?
A couple of apples to oranges comparison. The LS was a new from the ground up for less than $10,000. The Coyote had to use pre-owned parts to get inside that under $10 grand price. Also, given what was tested, what good is the horse power per cubic inch comparison? I could understand using that if the more cubic inches you have equated to a detriment such as heavier or more bulky but in this case the LS was neither of those so that particular parameter was imho useless. And for those that want to say it was useful because IF you were to have a Coyote with x more cubic inches....let me stop you right there. I don't even want to think about how much a super modified Coyote 6+ ltr engine would cost. I mean we all do still live in the real world right? Please don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Coyote and it is an amazing engine, however for those of us with a mortgage, the dollar per horsepower makes the LS the king.
6.2 vs. 5.0 ? not quite a fair comparison....
It's a popularity comparison.
It's super fair. The Ford has twice as many moving parts. Modular motors were a reinvented wheel (I currently have a 4.6, and it's incredible). In real world applications not some "$10,000 is an engine budget" world, II can get 2 LS3's running for the price of 1 Coyote. Then there's the fitment. Why bother cutting up your entire car when the motor that fits right in makes more power? Longevity is the icing on the cake- ever swap a timing chain on a modular? Many shops will not do it (they just don't need the money bad enough). They "recommend" you just buy a rebuilt engine. LS timing chain, just about anyone can do themselves.
To be honest, I'm considering a coyote swapped focus. It's becoming more obvious to me why there is only like 1 on the internet.
@@theoriginalcttheoriginalct6938 yeah Ford V8s are massively underrated by the swap community for "complexity" concerns or whatever... It's just variable valve timing... LOL it ain't no fucking Porsche engine
Where is the similar sized GM motor?
@@glengardner5477 -the closest in size LS is 4.8, which is commonly built to 500hp naturally aspirated. With a$10k budget, one could buy 2 4.8'2 making 400+hp for 10k, and almost 2 crate 6.2 LS's. If the budget were $5k(much more realistic in my world), the Coyote wouldn't be a consideration for comparison purposes. I think that the basis of this build is more for the guy who has more disposable income as a priority...Not the guy who wants the best economy out of his dollar. Also, there is the Ford vs Chevy conversation that needs to be fueled from time to time.
My 86' Fox runs like a chevy.I have a bumper sticker stating that fact.
Chevy guy at heart who happens to own a Ford,an LS swap was a no brainer.
A disgrace to ford ownership
SkyHigh lmao no not really plenty of ppl swap ford into chevys chevys aswell
So what really is the point of building a smaller displacement (but larger size, more complex and more expensive) engine if it produces less HP and less Torque? Only reason I see would be for fuel economy and emissions. However, if you look at the EPA ratings, the Vette and the Mustang GT get the same ratings. The Vette is a few hundred pounds less and better aerodynamically but the 5.0 should shine in this area but it does not. My weed wacker's engine gets great HP/Liter specs but that does not make it a better engine. Most of my driving is under 4k rpm so high Torque is for me.
Bigger, heavier, weaker, and slower. Poor yote
Yep, just try not think about the fact that it took gm over a liter more displacement to beat Ford's 5 liter. Another fun 10k challenge might be the coyote vs the gm 4.8.
I sure would like to see the ford grow to a 351 and compare those apples.
It would have destroyed the ls for sure.
Not only that but which one is gonna win at the drag strip.
Coyote for the win
Ya that's great then the coyote would be even larger and heavier.....
The Ford 351's were complete pieces of shit. Period. The 5.0 is the only engine Ford has ever made that's worth a fuck, and it's still not worth half a fuck compared to chevy's worst engines
@@LoathsomeDove The 351 Windsor is a 289/302 with a taller deck for the longer stroke. Same engine for all intents an purposes. They were designed in the 60's and for their time a very good engine. Can't really compare to modern engines.
On the other hand you can build a 351 to be more modern and less shitty. Start by getting a new Ford Racing Z351 Aluminum Block
or a DART Alum. block casting for a Windsor build and it'll easily compete with the new Coyote all day long, not to mention cost and weigh less.
@@LoathsomeDove the only reason most people use SB 350 over SB fords are price. Plus most of them wouldn't know what to do with a 5.0L, mechanically, if you instructed them.
My new favorite motor is the lingenfelter eliminator spec r motor line up. They have a 454 that revs to 8500 and makes 820hp. Disgusting!
Both of these engines are amazing and reliable and I'm proud to have them be American. My favorite is LS tho.
The one thing I took away from this? Is seeing the Dyno graph for the Coyote, and how it just kept wanting to climb. Those heads need a bigger block under them.
Goldmarble a 427 aluminum block it can make +650 on stock lol
@@iraqirestoration2991 650 on stock isn't really impressive anymore
@@erikcapozzi3425 yeah it is, especially if its reliable horsepower
wow! the LS engines are kicking ass all over the place
for ford guys to put LSs in fords shows they know a good thing when they see it
andrew srenson they know how to spend their money modular engines been expensive to built why not go the cheaper route ls engines are disposable engines
Ha!
@@antonford5172 no they just a better engine even if there disposable but thing is how old is ls literally its taken ford years to make an engine to be even close and coyote still is shit and cant beat an old ls gold old bald eagle's my nigga if chevy were to make a brand new v8 engine chevy would literally blow the doors off eveything 😂😂sorry fan boy
you're ass backwards buddy. chevy guys taking their pos motors and using a mustang to keep up with mustangs. ford guys don't swap ford a ls. too slow.
@@tremail12 what team are u on i don't understand what u said not being rude
The LS winning was all about its displacement advantage.. But, the Coyote motor is a much better design and has a lot more potential, especially if boost is added. And, if you equate the displacement, the Coyote would crush the LS.
The two engines are equivalent. Multiply the size of the engine by the RPM it did it at, then divide it by the horsepower. The resulting numbers are different by less than 10%. All engines are going to deviate by (compression ratio)/(Compression ratio -1)
The LS is cheaper to build or modify, is physically more compact, and just as fuel efficient (if not moreso).
6.2 liters yet makes more power from half as many intake and exhaust halves, 1 cam phaser instead of 4, 1 cam instead of 4, and a timing chain that miles shorter. Yet it's just as compact in external dimensions, weighs the same or slightly less, and bolts up to a dozen different transmissions. There's a reason the LS swap is dogged for being TOO common and there's a reason most guys dismiss a 5.0 Coyote swap due to the costs involved.
You can make up any arbitrary calculation you want, but there is an inherent advantage to pushrod V8's. It's why the Ford guys were so hyped up when the Godzilla 7.3 showed up even though it was only intended for the Super Duty trucks. They secretly know that there are huge advantages to 16-valve pushrod V8's. Ford engineers admitted they picked a 16v pushrod design because it was more fuel efficient for the torque and horsepower it would produce compared to OHC designs.
@@wernerziegler6709 I agree, but hear me out.
-- On an LS, the lower operating speed makes transmission shift quality better. The lower RPM makes the system safer and more responsive. The higher average port velocity and angularity does make fuel economy and combustion better on average. Plus, you can use the same cylinder head for either side.
-- Trust my calculation. When an engine scores low, that just means it has modification potential. The bigger the engine, the badder it'll be. A 6.2 is 20% bigger than a 5.0. That's the mindset for that equation. It's why I like big blocks with symmetric port heads. The new 632 is built that way.
-- That said, there are reasons to like the coyote.
-- It has straight raised ports, so the width of the torque peak for any given camshaft setup will be wider and cooler running.
-- The headers don't get mangled with the spark plugs, which is nice sometimes.
-- The spark plugs are kept under sealed coils, which is nice from a maintenance standpoint.
-- With a VVT delete, the coyote would be a very nice road-race engine.
-- If you grenade a camshaft somehow, a DOHC engine will not destroy the block.
Ls all day no questions hand's down; have a good day :-)
There's no question, the Coyote is great engine... but the LS has higher displacement capacity, makes more power in a smaller overall assembly, is considerably easier to both work on and modify, and is cheaper to upgrade. When it comes to modified performance, the Coyote doesn't stand a chance.
Tell me how the coyote made the almost the same power it would’ve made to the wheels through a manual
Chevy is a smaller engine with bigger pistons and more power
Physical dimensions but bigger crank, rods and pistons,
The reason the Ford engine is physically bigger is dual overhead cams vs the LS is still old pushrod.
@@gregwilliams4380 the coyotah has more crank in it.
Greg Williams dohc is an older tupe of engine. And plus, Ls engines have way more tech in them than this old fashioned Cayote.
Ford guy here, but a 6.2L vs 3.0L? Amazing the coyote came so close. Try supercharged on same engines if you can. That would be interesting.
Not really amazing in any way shape or form. The Coyote had twice as many intake and exhaust valves as well as independent variable intake and exhaust valve timing. Not only that, but the Coyote engine is physically larger than the 6.2L LS3. The LS3 curb stomped the 5.0 Coyote using 1 cam instead of the Coyote's 4 cams, 16 valves instead of 32, and 1 cam phaser instead of 4. All while doing it for less money and using the same amount of fuel.
So much easier and cheaper to find parts for LS engines. So proven and so much data for it too. Don’t have to re invent the wheel.
Imagine if they said that with old carb 350s and never came out with the LT and then LS. Progress is always good.
Easier? Everything for the coyote is readily available everywhere. LS parts are more expensive exactly because they are not readily available.
@@nicolesmrekar2046 You got completely backwards.
I personally would never slap an LS on any of my Fords. I do agree even as a Ford guy, that the LS engine is a bad ass little engine. The Coyote engine in the other hand is in its own level cause I have built from Mopars to Chevys to Ford engines and it really depends on what's under the guts of any engine that will make it perform. I've beat big block 454 Camaro's with my little Hipo 289 Maverick. But it all depends on horsepower to weight ratio. My thing is any American engine is fun to build. I remember building a 4.6 on my 99 Mustang GT and I had read that naturally aspirated u would not get more then 400 hp. Guess what after finishing mine I was putting 455hp at the wheels...so it really depends on the math. The LS is definitely a great engine for sure...but don't forget Ford and Mopar have some bitching engines themselves, But will cost more to build in the long run...
Manny Tenorio 455 whp from a 2v gt .......how is that even remotely possible ?
Rodolfo Munoz everything is possible....nothing is never impossible...trust me.
Think about it. Now there are four cylinder engines with more horsepower then what the Shelby Mustang had in the 60's. You install the rite pistons, crank,,Rings, heads etc. and you will have a horsepower breathing 4.6 engine that can reb up to 6500-7,000 plus RPM. It can be done it has been done...Im 45 years old and I started working on American Muscle since the late 80's. Ford has gone a long way with Technology. They are no longer grease monkeys but Engineers building cars now. Not only Ford but Every car maker...
Manny Tenorio revving only 7 with a 14:1:0 compression pistons ......with fully built PnP heads and custom ground cams I still wouldn't see it scratching mid 3s much less mid 4s.......from what I've seen.....especially not from stock c.i
I'm not sure if my post is still around but I will look for it and give you the link on RUclips. I don't post much cause I let my work speak for itself. I built a 2001 Mustang for a buddy of mine and he thought what you thought. He said it was not possible to get 400 horsepower out of a 4.6. When he picked up his car he had a smile from ear to ear...he took it to K&N and had it tuned dyno tested. At the rear wheels he pulled 435 with his 4.6. He could have added a few things more to pull what mine did but he didn't do it at the time. He still has it and always calls me to ask if I'm ready. I tell him I'm always ready...
If you had a 372 ci coyote it wouldn't make 631 hp cause it wouldn't rev to 7800 rpm. Look at the power increase with ls3 under the curve, the coyote in an automatic car would be a dogg without atleast 456 gears
let see next the 5.8 vs. 6.2 under boost
38k engine vs 11k engine. Makes sense.
Don't worry all the "power per liter is the only metric that matters" people will be here shortly. Price, weight, and packaging be damned I guess.
+Ishliss2012 isn't a brand new ls3 over 7700?
Victor Sanjurjo If you want it assembled, with engine controls, and a warranty, yes.
over $12000 na
LS Engine is cheap easy to work on, and parts are interchangeable VS complicated expensive ford engine