Engines are air pumps and the same design and dimensions with a different logo will reproduce the same results. Except the Chevy will weigh less, fit more places and have a lower center of gravity.
@@MrLIVELINESOLUTIONS How do you figure? they both weigh just over 500lb when in stock all-iron form. And the 351w is about 2 inches narrower.... have you ever seen them on stands side-by-side?
I'm kinda partial to the 350 myself, but that 351W is an excellent engine. Honestly, they're pretty closely matched in both performance and reliability.
its not the cleveland that you want to get? my friend had a windsor in his foxbody and i swear any fwd car with 130hp or more was faster, my friend always said, on day ill get the cleveland and people wont laugh anymore... my chevy cobalt made a full 4 sec quicker on the 1/4 mile, it was that bad
@@retrocompaq Cleveland can handle more power on stock block, that’s why people want them over the windsors. As for why your friends fox was so slow, that’s probably because it was stock af. I’ve got a 351w in my 84 fox and it definitely hurts some feelings lol
it does help equalize the comparison. would be fun to run a vortec 350 against a 351W with GT40P heads, but Richard Holdener has likely done it already.
FR. I've noticed that as well. If you want to compare apples to apples the displacement has to be close. I'd like to see a 5.0 ho build up against a similarly spec'd 305
It’s always been that way. They used to compare the the 5.0l to the sb350 and the 351w to the 454. GM’s motors always seem to be bigger in displacement compared to their competition. Overcompensating is the way.
@@bigpigslapperoinktoo4953you're not understanding what he's saying. He said that Chevy engines are usually compared to the smaller engine of their competitors. Nobody is comparing a 454 to the 460 because there is no comparison. That's why the 454 is usually compared to the 351w or something smaller.
I've read this statement before... Dollar per dollar chevy wins. Mod per mod ford takes it every time. Ford is better than chevy hands down. 302 is better than 305. 351 is better than 350. And 460 is better than 454. I've read in forums word per word page per page. And equally sized and modded ford will out power and live a chevy.
What a badass test! Love engine masters and both of these guys too! Been watching since Roadkill season 1. Episode one and I can never get enough of these two!
@@bigboreracing356 unless you are the guy working on the distributor. Try swapping out distributors when they are under the cowl. Check out a dodge ram 318/360 they absolutely suck to do. Chevy wasn't as bad they didn't build the car over top of the distributor.
@Pike one vehicle they did block the distributor pretty good was the Buick roadmaster. Sister in law had one and I had to do the ICM on it. What a pain.
No surprise. With all components being fairly equal, it only makes sense the output is equal as well. After that it's just about which brand you want to give your money to.
@@skiptastic1000 not making a excuse but I mean. The ford did have more compression AND more cubic inch but only made 5 more HP 🤷♂️. That’s not really impressive
The 4 bolt main conversion for the Windsor, made it practically indestructible. And, the advancements in the 8.8" rear, make an old grocery getter capable of walking on what we used to build in the 80s, out of a cleveland/9" combination.
@carminereddYou forgot the lsd 8.8 Explorer rear! I myself am guilty of sticking them in more than one place they don't belong. I narrowed and rebuilt one for my buddy's DD 65 Barracuda and it has taken more clutch drops than I care to count with just shy of 400hp.
I cut my teeth in our '69 Mach 1 - 351W equipped, which I'm still driving to this day with the same stock motor. While others have replaced/rebuilt their motor a few times, the 351W keeps on keepin' on. So of course I'm going with the Windsor. It never disappoints and always puts a big smile on my face. I'm not an engine guy (rebuilder). This is just my experience. This was a fun comparison, but says nothing of longevity of each motor, which is understandable as they weren't testing longevity. But I wonder which engine would last longer under normal use and maintenance? Better metallurgy, better rings, better springs, harder camshaft, etc. These kind of things make a huge difference. Back in the day, the Ford vs Chevy rivalry was huge. But now I think both of these engines will go down in history as two of the most versatile small block V8s ever made.
@@rnrsteev I loved the 318 Magnum in my old ZJ Grand Cherokee. I suggested the 360 since it's the closest in displacement to these. But it's a great engine too.
My guess is that with identical parts the LA motor would make about 15 more horses, about 18 more in torque but weigh about 40 pounds more. Oh, and it would outlast both Ford and Chevy in a"Drive it until the crankshaft breaks" challenge
Yea Chevy guys are notorious for that because they know what happens when you use a fair comparison using the 351 vs 350. Lol It's not their fault that their dads brainwashed them. Lol😂😂
AFR wouldn’t sell heads lol. Richard Holdner did a dyno test of a 1970 M code 351C and well: 351C 4v, stock intake, stock cam, stock heads, headers, distributor, e-water pump, and a holley carb, 365hp, 379ftlb 240/246 duration cam (xe284h comp) Edelbrock air gap dual pane intake 450hp/411ftlb Factory 4v iron closed chamber heads
@@eclipsegst9419 power nation did a Cleveland with the trick flow heads, I don't know how they screwed up but the build was so poor It didn't even make as much power as the Windsor. Then they raved about how great the Windsor was. My stock Boss 351 made 445 at 6100 with just a Roller cam change. and a 750 Holley. the power should have been better but we had to use a restricted adapter to fit the Holley to the Ford spread bore manifold. if we could have found a Squair bore Cleveland cast intake it should have been better
Watch Richard Holdner's videos. He proves time and again that brand does not matter. Similar head flow, cam timing, displacement, and compression will all make similar power.
My ‘72 Mustang has a 351 Cleveland rebuilt and bored over to a 359 Cleveland, by Barnett High Performance. It was OEM block fully machined, OEM crank and rods, cast pistons, 2V heads with hp valve job and stainless valves, custom design hydraulic roller cam, Edelbrock Performer dual plane aluminum intake, Holley 650 CFM double-pumper carburetor, and MSD ignition system. They dyno tested the block and it made 389 horsepower at 5,400 RPM, with 422 ft-lb of torque at 3,700 RPM
@@dandunning4409360 "big block"... 340 is a good comparison to the 350/351... WTF are you talking about?😂😅 the 360 has way too low compression to be a good comparison and the original 340 is way too high...
@@jameshathaway5117 WTF are you talking about !!! Calm down KAREN. Not including a Mopar was not fair. I'm a Ford guy 100% but it would have been nice to include something from Mopar and the 360 was just a suggestion so STFU!
Great comparison test. The taller deck of the Windsor allows for a much longer connecting rod. The 351M/400 rod with that combination would be an interesting build.
The M rod is too long. And even if you could make a custom piston, the pin would be in the compression ringland area. The M rods are wide at the big end, they would have to be cut.
Longer rods. Is that an advantage? What about high rpm horsepower? Longer rods are heavy reciprocating components so mass is critical. Just like pistons and connecting rods. Lighter is better. In GP power, its all about the RPM.
I had a Fairmont Futura in the late 80s with 351M rods and Dart Steel heads. With full interior and around 3500#'s with me in it. It ran 10:90s for years until I put Nitrous on it without enough fuel pump😢😢😢. Back then, that was fast for a pump gas small block with full exhaust. It only needed tags and insurance to be street legal, but I didn't want to risk my CDL by getting goated into street racing.
If you could get a set of equal heads, it would be really close, Getting the lates good parts has always been the problem with both Mopar and AMC. You can build a GM engine and not use a single stock part every part can be bought from the aftermarket.
It would be nice to see some Pontiac stuff. I understand it’s a fair bit more niche as far as the hobby goes but there’s still a lot of folks both young and old building them and getting started.
Stock Pontiac heads don't flow good # unless its a SD 455 that's why stock Pontiac cams were not much over 500 lift the heads didn't flow much over 500 lift ,but Pontiac reached out to a company back in the day called AF when they built the SD 455 and sent the factory SD heads to AF they moved the valves around so it would flow good # some say it would out flow a hemi head that same company now is known as AFR air flow research
FORD F.T.W - Yeah, you guys should do a Rear-mounted Turbo Sleeper 1965 Ford Fairlane 500 like im try to build. See how much boost that 289 can take + It would be Nice to see Real Steel Ford Cars Destroy Them Bow-tie Sissy's. Or do up a 64 or 65 Falcon - but keep it all Ford Please!!! miss the Rotsun "Turbo 302 Z"= Turbo`s are the Future - If u want to keep up Right?
Awesome test the best ive seen that was fair. I'd love to see same test done on a Cleveland vs Ls chev with same cam compression intake so we can do a 4way comparison.
It's just easier to find power cheaply with O.E. parts on a Chevy. The same can be made with the Ford but using O.E. parts it gets expensive really quickly. Aftermarket parts wise it really doesn't matter because they are pretty much the same cost wise for equivalent parts.
And dude .. distributor in the rear!!!! Only way to fly!!! Probably another reason the small Chevy is the #1 choice for hot rod builders... aesthetically much much better
Always hated that hot spot in the middle of the Chevy heads on the 350 for me personally I wouldn’t sink a ton in building an old Chevy but I’d build that old ford in a heartbeat
I’ve had a 73 ,75 and a 79 Blazer and I own a 79 Bronco that I’ve had about 10 years or so and all three blazers together are nowhere near as tuff as a 79 Bronco. A 12 bolt rear end is a piece of glass when you run a 35 inch tire and a 350 turbo trans is fine in a car but once again the 350 turbo trans does not like 35 inch tires where as a Ford 9 inch rear end and a C6 trans laughs at 35 inch tires and if you don’t believe me try it your self
The C6 and TH350 are not in the same class. If you want to do an apples to apples comparison, then put a TH400 against that C6. However, the 9 inch is the better rear axle.
@@matthewjohnson2495 it's not close to a th350 in any way. Stronger, different ratios, different design entirely. Shift linkage has nothing to do with anything here, stop creating strawmen.
AMEN brother chevy is junk, i grew up on a alabama farm dad a chevy guy we had a cow pasture full of dead chevy square bodies some never made it a year and was garbage. Whwn i graduated high school i bought a brand new 1985 f-150 and drove it 35 years rolled the odometer 7 times landing on 20ish. 1st year 302efi manual trans hardly ever ant major problems.
i really like watching this show.... they do so many comparisons .. that ive always wondered about .. like mechanical fans compared to electric fans....2.5 exhaust to 3 inch exhaust ect
Back in the early 1980s the gap between Ford and Chevrolet small block engines was much greater because the factory cylinder heads for Chevrolets had a much better exhaust port than the Windsor head, and affordable aftermarket aluminum cylinder heads were still years away. I bought a set of Brodix street heads for my Camaro in 1987 because I had the money and they were ready for unleaded gas. But a few years later companies were selling aftermarket Ford heads that were much, much better than anything that had been on the market up until then, which really narrowed the gap.
@@ProjectFairmont But that stuff was still rare and expensive when compared to the availability of some of the better factory SBC heads like the 292 "Turbo" heads. It's too bad too, it could have saved my brother so much trouble when compared to the work he did to put a 351 Cleveland in his '66 Mustang.
It’s all generation and they take turns. Ford Flathead over Chevy Chevy SBC over Ford Y Block Ford 5.0 over Chevy TPI Chevy LS over Ford Mod Ford Coyote over Chevy LT
I knew it! They're the same engine painted in different colors!... Lol! Actually, this is something I've argued and seen argued many times over the years. I always argued that IF you could get as close as possible to the same parts on them, the results would be pretty darn close to equal. Now we have the proof! Thanks, Frieberger, Dulcich, and Steve Brulé.!
I think it would still be the same if they used identical heads. The design differences, crank journal diameter, bearings, water passages, etc. don't effect power.
That wouldn’t sell AFR heads though. Richard Holdner did a dyno run. 1970 M code 351C 4v, stock intake, stock cam, headers, and a holley carb, 365hp, 379ftlb 240/246 duration cam Edelbrock air gap dual pane intake, 450hp/411ftlb Iron 4v Closed Chamber heads
from an actual comparitive standpoint that wouldve gave for a much bigger hp number over the sbc sbc before tdc is 8-10 degrees sbf is 10-12 before tdc and in a power application sbc is 12degrees ford is 15+ degrees and total timing the ford actually accepts way more timing than the sbc thats why the distributors were locked out so it was as even as possible
@@TylerDuysen they probably had total timing set at 30 or whatever with no advance curve. Not just the 10 or so base timing. Suppose since the test starts above 3000 all the mechanical advance should be in already
@@matthewklein9225 its hard to say because mathmatically im pretty sure they were using base timing no advance. there wouldve been zero mechanichal advance they locked out the distributors. so there couldnt possiblly be mechanichal advance. thats what that aluminum collar on the bottom does it doesnt allow any timing including mechanical advance
One other thing that could be contributing to the horsepower difference is the distributor location. If you are getting your timing from the distributor, the further away from the timing chain the distributor is it will have more timing deflection the higher the RPM due to the pressure from moving the valves creating a torsional twist on the camshaft. If you are using crank trigger ignition, this does not matter, and from what I have seen as far as it being measured, it's only been detectable at very high RPMs usually starting around 7k, but for a horsepower difference. As small as you all saw, this could contribute I believe.
I own both engines, both very great for performance..I would have to say the chevy is less desirable to work on than the ford in small ways as far as engine teardown and rebuild is concerned..just my opinion of course..drivetrain work is easier on my chevy rather than the ford in certain ways.
It would be cool to see you guys do modern vs old school 1960-1970s shoot out of comparable setups. I’m dumb so maybe it would be a completely lop sided comparison but it would be cool.
This is a good comparison I'm a fan of the Big 3 mainly old school, I will never mix and match I keep everything Ford, Ford, Chevy, Chevy and Dodge, Dodge. Would be nice to see a 3 way match.
Yessir I agree. I’m an old school Chevy fan but I appreciate them all. Check out Richard Holdner. He has done all 3. Not sure if he had them specked out this close though. This was definitely a good comparison.
It's almost like physics dictates how engines make power. Put the same air, fuel, and spark through the same number of cubic inches at the same time and you make the same power. IT'S MAGIC! No really it's called physics and physics don't care about your feelings.
Some people would go for the larger one and in this case they would be right. Of course the engine with the slightly bigger displacement and higher compression produced the more power even if it was a small amount. Reality is not just cost or size it’s often availability or weight or even size of the vehicle that your planing to use. Sure you might get either one in stock form like a former police car or taxi or just an used car that has either one from an elderly person that’s only being used to go to church or bingo . Often the choice is not a choice but just luck that you came across one for the right price.
@@ryurc3033 Not to those of us that pay attention. Over the last 10 years especially, before that I would say that Ford was more expensive but as LS stuff has slowly taken over the Chevy camp the classic small block parts have gone up in price more so than the Ford parts. Demand has waned because of the popularity of the LS making the small block parts cost more to produce as the production runs get smaller and smaller.
The 351 has a slight advantage over the 350 in that the spread port design of the Ford is slightly better than the shared port design of the Chevrolet. The extra two tenths of an inch stroke length on the Ford doesn't give it any advantage.
I'd rather have the 350 over the 351W, 351C over both. back in the 80's edelbrock had a 351C at over 700hp, pump gas, on their dyno. fun fact: the Miami Vice white Ferrari had a 351C NOS injected because the factory motor didn't have the power needed for the stunts.
The "Testarossa" they used for stunts was a reskinned Pantera specifically built for stunt driving (it had cool touches like a third brake pedal for just the rear brakes to set the car up for sliding turns). They used real Testarossas for all of the close up shots.
@@rnrsteev As much as I can’t stand the Eagles, I hated too see the Eagles get cheated out of a Super Bowl win like they did. One of the best Super Bowls that I’ve watched until that stupid call. It ruined that game. Not to mention, I cant count how many times I saw the same defensive grab and not get called through out the season, and they call it in the Super Bowl. Kinda reminded me of the 70’s Cowboys-Steelers Super Bowl games. The officiating favored the Steelers. Mahomes is going to get that special Brady treatment because he’s a money machine for the NFL.
Awesome test! I was pretty hard on you guys a couple years ago with the 455 vs 460 shootout. Not because I'm a Ford guy, but because of the build differences. This was really impressive and absolutely demonstrates that in similar applications either motor is a great choice! For this I would stick with the bow tie motor because even though the Ford made a couple more HP and Torque, you demonstrated on a similar build there just isn't enough difference. Also, in what I would be looking at for a 350ish application would most likely be a Chevy platform.
distributor infront wins races. There’s a reason chevreolet decided to base their latest cam in block engine is just a modern Ford windsor not a modern sbc that should tell you everything about which one is better here too bad the cheap counterfeit LS doesn’t have the good oiling the Windsor does
Biggest difference is the stroke capabilities. The 350 sbc 383 is as far as most stock blocks can go and the 351w can go to 410 most stock block . Sbc 400 tho would probably blow both engine out however.
Great comparison and totally disproves all the legions of keyboard experts that have been saying for years that the SBF Ford design is worse?, harder to find parts?, more expensive to build?, less power?, etc, etc, are just full of it and have been regurgitating nonsense that they heard from others who have never built one. SBC and SBF are nearly the same to build for power on the street/strip. Now lets hear all the haters reply!!!
What this test fails to take into consideration is the glaring fact that building a Chevy will always yield more horsepower per dollar. Be curious to see a breakdown of the costs of all the parts laid out side by side. I guarantee the Chevy can be built for less.
@@delbertmcfinklestein8576 It's not that it can't be done. It's that it's not as practical to do. If you think otherwise, great. I'll stick to my Chevrolet.
No debate... Gapp and Roush, Dyno Don, and Mr Glidden pummeled the competition so badly with the 351C that to this day, remains the most handicapped engine in PS racing history.
With the best factory production OEM iron heads available for each engine family, the Chevy would have a huge advantage on a Windsor Ford. The aftermarket heads definitely even the score. The stock Windsor heads just weren't designed with big flow and power in mind. Of course, an equivalent build level OEM iron head Boss 351 would put the hurt to any stock iron head 350 SBC.
Oil sloshing towards the back of the engine uncovers a front sump oil pickup. Result: spun bearings, lost race. Fords suck. Dual sumps in the Fox body engine is better, but two oil drain plugs equals longer time wasted waiting for the oil to drain. Fords suck.
I've been pointing this out to the Ford guys for years, especially when they brag about the dizzy being in the right place on a Ford. It would be great if everyone was racing in reverse.
The Ford has higher compression ratio. If they were exact same compression ratio, guarantee that small block would be a few extra ponies than the Windsor.
I put together a 351m.. Yes a modified with stock 2v heads and a 252 comp. Very small cam and an intake and headers and it has more grunt and mid range power than any Chevy 350 that I've ever experienced.
@Whatta well on the flip side. The exhaust port flow on a SBC is a better design than the ford's. So I'd call it a wash. Both are respectable engines. I am a Ford guy, but I am not gonna hate on the Chevy. At least not that I am older 😂
When I was a kid, my dad told me that hp doesn't care what name is on the valve covers. I guess the old man was right! It was interesting to see a comparison between the two brands from the same era. There has been a trend to "ls swap" everything lately. Of course, the ls has 55 years of technological advantage on the windsor so it makes sense that it makes more power. Ford had been out of the pushrod game for so long. But now, the godzilla engine puts them back on par technologically. It would be interesting to see when the aftermarket for the 7.3 / 6.8 engines catch up with the ls. I suspect that the results will be basically what we saw here.
I agree with Freiburger , you won't notice the difference in tq or hp , but in the past I always thought the Chevy had a better flowing head , I guess in stock trim , but technology has obviously come to the show with the AFR heads flow numbers and 2 cubic inches 😉
I've followed Freiburger , since the 80s in CAR CRAFT and numerous other articles , HE is by far one of the coolest Mechanical geniuses I've ever seen , HE can make pure junk absolutely scream with just a few bolt on, ALL HAIL DAVID FREIBURGER !!!
Now a genuine question I have. As a guy who prefers SBF in my foxbodies… what is the point of doing a sbc if they produce similar numbers @ similar cost?
What surprised you most about these tests?
The fact that you are reposting old content is probably the most surprising, or maybe it isn't 🤔
Engines are air pumps and the same design and dimensions with a different logo will reproduce the same results. Except the Chevy will weigh less, fit more places and have a lower center of gravity.
@yamfingaz5598 What information of value have you posted,?
@@MrLIVELINESOLUTIONS How do you figure? they both weigh just over 500lb when in stock all-iron form. And the 351w is about 2 inches narrower.... have you ever seen them on stands side-by-side?
In stock configuration, the Ford has .256 inch longer rods, accounting for some but not all of the .472 inch greater deck height.
I'm a Ford guy and I'd personally take the 351 Windsor. But both are legendary engines and both are respectable
I'm kinda partial to the 350 myself, but that 351W is an excellent engine. Honestly, they're pretty closely matched in both performance and reliability.
its not the cleveland that you want to get? my friend had a windsor in his foxbody and i swear any fwd car with 130hp or more was faster, my friend always said, on day ill get the cleveland and people wont laugh anymore... my chevy cobalt made a full 4 sec quicker on the 1/4 mile, it was that bad
@@retrocompaq The Cleveland has better flowing factory heads for sure, but the Windsor is a stronger overall platform.
Id rather have a 351 cleveland but a windsor would do
@@retrocompaq Cleveland can handle more power on stock block, that’s why people want them over the windsors. As for why your friends fox was so slow, that’s probably because it was stock af. I’ve got a 351w in my 84 fox and it definitely hurts some feelings lol
Winner: AFR. Heads made both shine.
Did they both have AFR 195s?
Right you are lol. That’s why it wasn’t a 351C in this test
it does help equalize the comparison. would be fun to run a vortec 350 against a 351W with GT40P heads, but Richard Holdener has likely done it already.
Thank you for actually using a 351, every other magazine always tests the 302 vs a 350 which is not a fair comparison.
FR. I've noticed that as well. If you want to compare apples to apples the displacement has to be close. I'd like to see a 5.0 ho build up against a similarly spec'd 305
It’s always been that way. They used to compare the the 5.0l to the sb350 and the 351w to the 454. GM’s motors always seem to be bigger in displacement compared to their competition. Overcompensating is the way.
@@turbo4zetec Ford 460 ci,, Chevy 454,, really dude??
@@bigpigslapperoinktoo4953you're not understanding what he's saying. He said that Chevy engines are usually compared to the smaller engine of their competitors. Nobody is comparing a 454 to the 460 because there is no comparison. That's why the 454 is usually compared to the 351w or something smaller.
I've read this statement before... Dollar per dollar chevy wins. Mod per mod ford takes it every time. Ford is better than chevy hands down. 302 is better than 305. 351 is better than 350. And 460 is better than 454. I've read in forums word per word page per page. And equally sized and modded ford will out power and live a chevy.
What a badass test! Love engine masters and both of these guys too! Been watching since Roadkill season 1. Episode one and I can never get enough of these two!
Amen to that Sir 😎👍🏻
They are not the same. That distributor being in the front makes life sooooooo much easier.
@@bigboreracing356 unless you are the guy working on the distributor. Try swapping out distributors when they are under the cowl. Check out a dodge ram 318/360 they absolutely suck to do. Chevy wasn't as bad they didn't build the car over top of the distributor.
@Pike one vehicle they did block the distributor pretty good was the Buick roadmaster. Sister in law had one and I had to do the ICM on it. What a pain.
Any engine with the distributer in front! Thanks, Ford!
Or......you could step into the last century.
@@bigboreracing356 distributor in the back also just go smooth with crank physics
No surprise. With all components being fairly equal, it only makes sense the output is equal as well. After that it's just about which brand you want to give your money to.
Did anyone else notice the glowing #5 header pipe on the SBC? Looks like it was a tad on the lean side, but thats hard to fine tune using a carburetor
Excess fuel burning in the header pipe.
Exhaust valve might be a little too tight.
All I hear is excuses .... FORD RULZZZ. CHEVY DROOOOOOLLLZ
@@hugieflhr03 yeah, never thought of that, good point.
@@skiptastic1000 not making a excuse but I mean. The ford did have more compression AND more cubic inch but only made 5 more HP 🤷♂️. That’s not really impressive
The 4 bolt main conversion for the Windsor, made it practically indestructible.
And, the advancements in the 8.8" rear, make an old grocery getter capable of walking on what we used to build in the 80s, out of a cleveland/9" combination.
@carminereddYou forgot the lsd 8.8 Explorer rear! I myself am guilty of sticking them in more than one place they don't belong. I narrowed and rebuilt one for my buddy's DD 65 Barracuda and it has taken more clutch drops than I care to count with just shy of 400hp.
Don't even need a 4 bolt main windsor just arp bolts or studs will hold up to 750hp fine
This reminds me of the good old
Days when all this awesome content was on RUclips all the time and not locked behind a paywall.
I cut my teeth in our '69 Mach 1 - 351W equipped, which I'm still driving to this day with the same stock motor. While others have replaced/rebuilt their motor a few times, the 351W keeps on keepin' on.
So of course I'm going with the Windsor. It never disappoints and always puts a big smile on my face. I'm not an engine guy (rebuilder). This is just my experience.
This was a fun comparison, but says nothing of longevity of each motor, which is understandable as they weren't testing longevity. But I wonder which engine would last longer under normal use and maintenance? Better metallurgy, better rings, better springs, harder camshaft, etc.
These kind of things make a huge difference.
Back in the day, the Ford vs Chevy rivalry was huge.
But now I think both of these engines will go down in history as two of the most versatile small block V8s ever made.
Now you guys just need to get a Mopar 360 on here as close to spec too.
how about the 318? isn't that considered one of the most underated?
@@rnrsteev I loved the 318 Magnum in my old ZJ Grand Cherokee. I suggested the 360 since it's the closest in displacement to these. But it's a great engine too.
Yeah, it's only fair.
340 is pound for pound a beast when built right
My guess is that with identical parts the LA motor would make about 15 more horses, about 18 more in torque but weigh about 40 pounds more. Oh, and it would outlast both Ford and Chevy in a"Drive it until the crankshaft breaks" challenge
A very good comparison. You can't go wrong with either engine.
Amazing they both are air pumps with the same displacement very cool to see play out.
Fair test . To often I hear the chevy guys comparing the 350 to the 302
Yea Chevy guys are notorious for that because they know what happens when you use a fair comparison using the 351 vs 350. Lol It's not their fault that their dads brainwashed them. Lol😂😂
And it’s crazy how 302 will go head to head with bigger engines
Would be nice to see Cleveland 4V or Clevor in the mix
AFR wouldn’t sell heads lol. Richard Holdner did a dyno test of a 1970 M code 351C and well:
351C 4v, stock intake, stock cam, stock heads, headers, distributor, e-water pump, and a holley carb, 365hp, 379ftlb
240/246 duration cam (xe284h comp)
Edelbrock air gap dual pane intake
450hp/411ftlb
Factory 4v iron closed chamber heads
Or even better a Cleveland with good aftermarket heads like CHI.
@@mikemustang5488 wouldn’t be fair at that point lol
@@B1Springfield No but TrickFlow sells heads for all 3. All bets on the Clevor for me.
@@eclipsegst9419 power nation did a Cleveland with the trick flow heads, I don't know how they screwed up but the build was so poor It didn't even make as much power as the Windsor. Then they raved about how great the Windsor was. My stock Boss 351 made 445 at 6100 with just a Roller cam change. and a 750 Holley. the power should have been better but we had to use a restricted adapter to fit the Holley to the Ford spread bore manifold. if we could have found a Squair bore Cleveland cast intake it should have been better
This puts to rest all that Ford vs Chevy arguing. We can all get back to loving each other. Whew, what a relief!
Watch Richard Holdner's videos. He proves time and again that brand does not matter. Similar head flow, cam timing, displacement, and compression will all make similar power.
NO CHEV IS ALWAYS THE BEST!!!!!!!!!
@@karenthomson9749 lol........
My ‘72 Mustang has a 351 Cleveland rebuilt and bored over to a 359 Cleveland, by Barnett High Performance. It was OEM block fully machined, OEM crank and rods, cast pistons, 2V heads with hp valve job and stainless valves, custom design hydraulic roller cam, Edelbrock Performer dual plane aluminum intake, Holley 650 CFM double-pumper carburetor, and MSD ignition system. They dyno tested the block and it made 389 horsepower at 5,400 RPM, with 422 ft-lb of torque at 3,700 RPM
now lets see once and for all, lets test to see what the baddest small block on the planet,---351C vs 340mopar vs 350 chevy. im voting 351 Cleveland
Until it dies from oil starvation on the racetrack thanks to the idiotic front oil sump.
My vortex 5.7L has 397,000, never been rebuilt, could use new hydraulic lifters, but that's it.
I prefer the 350. My brother, who knows WAAAY more about engines than I do, prefers the Windsor. But he does admit, that 350 was one of the best.
Great video. Would have been cool to add in a mopar 360 in there aswell just for comparison.
Good idea!
360? A bit of an advantage over a 351 W or a 350 ya think. Maybe a 340 Mopar but not a big block 360 compared to two small blocks.
@@MotorTrendWatch Nah we good on the Gen I mopor test. It's a reason why Gm and Ford small block or Big blocks are raced and use for power deals.
@@dandunning4409360 "big block"... 340 is a good comparison to the 350/351... WTF are you talking about?😂😅 the 360 has way too low compression to be a good comparison and the original 340 is way too high...
@@jameshathaway5117 WTF are you talking about !!! Calm down KAREN. Not including a Mopar was not fair. I'm a Ford guy 100% but it would have been nice to include something from Mopar and the 360 was just a suggestion so STFU!
Great comparison test. The taller deck of the Windsor allows for a much longer connecting rod. The 351M/400 rod with that combination would be an interesting build.
The M rod is too long. And even if you could make a custom piston, the pin would be in the compression ringland area.
The M rods are wide at the big end, they would have to be cut.
Longer rods. Is that an advantage? What about high rpm horsepower? Longer rods are heavy reciprocating components so mass is critical. Just like pistons and connecting rods. Lighter is better. In GP power, its all about the RPM.
I had a Fairmont Futura in the late 80s with 351M rods and Dart Steel heads. With full interior and around 3500#'s with me in it. It ran 10:90s for years until I put Nitrous on it without enough fuel pump😢😢😢. Back then, that was fast for a pump gas small block with full exhaust. It only needed tags and insurance to be street legal, but I didn't want to risk my CDL by getting goated into street racing.
Would love to see a 340 dressed out the same and see how it compares.
the 340 is highly race oriented. a 360 would be better suited to compare against these
Mopar would make them look silly in my oppinion.
@@conhemi50 351C enters the chat.
If you could get a set of equal heads, it would be really close, Getting the lates good parts has always been the problem with both Mopar and AMC. You can build a GM engine and not use a single stock part every part can be bought from the aftermarket.
Where these the as cast Enforcer heads or the CNC Eliminator heads?
It would be nice to see some Pontiac stuff. I understand it’s a fair bit more niche as far as the hobby goes but there’s still a lot of folks both young and old building them and getting started.
Stock Pontiac heads don't flow good # unless its a SD 455 that's why stock Pontiac cams were not much over 500 lift the heads didn't flow much over 500 lift ,but Pontiac reached out to a company back in the day called AF when they built the SD 455 and sent the factory SD heads to AF they moved the valves around so it would flow good # some say it would out flow a hemi head that same company now is known as AFR air flow research
@@darrellsomers5427 there are also “factory style” aluminum heads by Kaufman Performance as well as RAV heads available now
How does the weights of the engines compare - any difference ?
Ford Chev or Chrysler V8.
Doesn't matter.
They all still sound better than the tumble dryer motor in a Tesla
You're a weird dude.
These engines are great, but the tesla would kill these in a drag race
FORD F.T.W - Yeah, you guys should do a Rear-mounted Turbo Sleeper 1965 Ford Fairlane 500 like im try to build. See how much boost that 289 can take + It would be Nice to see Real Steel Ford Cars Destroy Them Bow-tie Sissy's. Or do up a 64 or 65 Falcon - but keep it all Ford Please!!! miss the Rotsun "Turbo 302 Z"= Turbo`s are the Future - If u want to keep up Right?
Now let's see a 283 sbc vs a 289 sbf!
Well, since they make 1.2hp per cube, roughly....multiply 1.2 x 6 and that'll be the difference.
HAHAHA you re kidding right. 289 SBF would eat the pooch 283. 289 is capable of 400 + Hp.
@@twolak1972 I was referring to a cubic inch vs cubic inch comparison
Right what difference would you expect
That would not be fair. 289 would slaughter the 283
Awesome test the best ive seen that was fair.
I'd love to see same test done on a Cleveland vs Ls chev with same cam compression intake so we can do a 4way comparison.
Why I like building the SBC back in the day: More OE head options, and steel crankshafts and 4-bolt main caps were common.
It's just easier to find power cheaply with O.E. parts on a Chevy. The same can be made with the Ford but using O.E. parts it gets expensive really quickly. Aftermarket parts wise it really doesn't matter because they are pretty much the same cost wise for equivalent parts.
Never made sense to me to cut your throat on the fan blade just to time a chevy.
And dude .. distributor in the rear!!!! Only way to fly!!! Probably another reason the small Chevy is the #1 choice for hot rod builders... aesthetically much much better
Lmao great for setting an engine further back too 🤣
This allows the driver to adjust timing from the cockpit!
Always hated that hot spot in the middle of the Chevy heads on the 350 for me personally I wouldn’t sink a ton in building an old Chevy but I’d build that old ford in a heartbeat
I've said it for YEARS, you take any small block V8 from that era and do the exact same build, they will be virtually identical in performance.
I would take either one, but I think the Ford with its odd firing order sounds better.
If the Chevy would of won, this guy would have telling his neighbors and the entire town about how great the Chevy is?😩
If that ford didn’t have more cubic inch and 2 two tenths more compression it wouldn’t of made more power
@@brandonbell433
Yep, when a Ford wins a Chevy starts crying Just like Warren Johnson, when a chevy wins they're all smiles.
@@fredramos9206 I’m not crying I’m simply stating the ford had advantages lol. It’s not like it was perfectly equal
Any ford guy should be disappointed in these results. Too many advantages not to make more power.
@@ZONES89RS
Yep, if it was the other way around, the entire chevy camp would be grinning.
I’ve had a 73 ,75 and a 79 Blazer and I own a 79 Bronco that I’ve had about 10 years or so and all three blazers together are nowhere near as tuff as a 79 Bronco. A 12 bolt rear end is a piece of glass when you run a 35 inch tire and a 350 turbo trans is fine in a car but once again the 350 turbo trans does not like 35 inch tires where as a Ford 9 inch rear end and a C6 trans laughs at 35 inch tires and if you don’t believe me try it your self
Dam right brother
The C6 and TH350 are not in the same class. If you want to do an apples to apples comparison, then put a TH400 against that C6. However, the 9 inch is the better rear axle.
@@silicon212 The 400 don’t compare to the C6 either.
A 400 is almost the same as a 350 but it don’t have a passing gear linkage
@@matthewjohnson2495 it's not close to a th350 in any way. Stronger, different ratios, different design entirely. Shift linkage has nothing to do with anything here, stop creating strawmen.
AMEN brother chevy is junk, i grew up on a alabama farm dad a chevy guy we had a cow pasture full of dead chevy square bodies some never made it a year and was garbage. Whwn i graduated high school i bought a brand new 1985 f-150 and drove it 35 years rolled the odometer 7 times landing on 20ish. 1st year 302efi manual trans hardly ever ant major problems.
That was agreat comparison. I've been a chevy fan all my life. So I'll keep running Chevy
I agree, I've got a garage full of Chevy part's and will never own a ford!!! Great test but only Chevy's here
@@ronnielewis1862I used to by that way, A fanboy and all and then I decided to grow up.
i really like watching this show.... they do so many comparisons .. that ive always wondered about .. like mechanical fans compared to electric fans....2.5 exhaust to 3 inch exhaust ect
yes and the EPIC,,, SALAD BOWL!!,,
Back in the early 1980s the gap between Ford and Chevrolet small block engines was much greater because the factory cylinder heads for Chevrolets had a much better exhaust port than the Windsor head, and affordable aftermarket aluminum cylinder heads were still years away. I bought a set of Brodix street heads for my Camaro in 1987 because I had the money and they were ready for unleaded gas. But a few years later companies were selling aftermarket Ford heads that were much, much better than anything that had been on the market up until then, which really narrowed the gap.
Not so much by 1982. The OEM HO cam, and the factory (‘87-‘95) E7 heads with porting and a 5 angle valve grind worked pretty well.
@@ProjectFairmont But that stuff was still rare and expensive when compared to the availability of some of the better factory SBC heads like the 292 "Turbo" heads. It's too bad too, it could have saved my brother so much trouble when compared to the work he did to put a 351 Cleveland in his '66 Mustang.
You forgot Ford had Fuel Injection and was competing 302 v 350.
Stock for stock Ford is better. If you choose to ditch the GM parts it can be better.
It’s all generation and they take turns.
Ford Flathead over Chevy
Chevy SBC over Ford Y Block
Ford 5.0 over Chevy TPI
Chevy LS over Ford Mod
Ford Coyote over Chevy LT
@@ChuckThree Well said.
I knew it! They're the same engine painted in different colors!... Lol!
Actually, this is something I've argued and seen argued many times over the years. I always argued that IF you could get as close as possible to the same parts on them, the results would be pretty darn close to equal. Now we have the proof! Thanks, Frieberger, Dulcich, and Steve Brulé.!
Now, if the 351 Cleveland was used instead of the Windsor it would be totally different!
Not likely. But just in case I am way wrong, how much more power do you think that engine would make over the windsor with a similar setup?
I think it would still be the same if they used identical heads. The design differences, crank journal diameter, bearings, water passages, etc. don't effect power.
That wouldn’t sell AFR heads though. Richard Holdner did a dyno run.
1970 M code 351C 4v, stock intake, stock cam, headers, and a holley carb, 365hp, 379ftlb
240/246 duration cam
Edelbrock air gap dual pane intake, 450hp/411ftlb
Iron 4v Closed Chamber heads
I'm still a LA series, 340 kinda guy. 👌 Steve Dulcich has taken a 340, and squeezed 580+hp. Bored, sleeved, and heads.
What is the weight difference between the two?
The weight is pretty similar. The 351W probably weighs about 30 lbs more due to the taller deck.
You two do a great job and Steve is a treasure.
would of been good to see how each engine responded to some timing changes
Yeah. Some of these tests are odd. Also, I could see choosing similar Cams but different engines respond to different profiles.
from an actual comparitive standpoint that wouldve gave for a much bigger hp number over the sbc sbc before tdc is 8-10 degrees sbf is 10-12 before tdc and in a power application sbc is 12degrees ford is 15+ degrees and total timing the ford actually accepts way more timing than the sbc thats why the distributors were locked out so it was as even as possible
@@TylerDuysen they probably had total timing set at 30 or whatever with no advance curve. Not just the 10 or so base timing. Suppose since the test starts above 3000 all the mechanical advance should be in already
@@matthewklein9225 yes, I'm thinking in the neighborhood of 34 degrees total on the lockout?
@@matthewklein9225 its hard to say because mathmatically im pretty sure they were using base timing no advance. there wouldve been zero mechanichal advance they locked out the distributors. so there couldnt possiblly be mechanichal advance. thats what that aluminum collar on the bottom does it doesnt allow any timing including mechanical advance
If your distributor is in the rear, you probably take it in the rear 🤷♂️
One other thing that could be contributing to the horsepower difference is the distributor location. If you are getting your timing from the distributor, the further away from the timing chain the distributor is it will have more timing deflection the higher the RPM due to the pressure from moving the valves creating a torsional twist on the camshaft. If you are using crank trigger ignition, this does not matter, and from what I have seen as far as it being measured, it's only been detectable at very high RPMs usually starting around 7k, but for a horsepower difference. As small as you all saw, this could contribute I believe.
Sorry but that's not true
I own both engines, both very great for performance..I would have to say the chevy is less desirable to work on than the ford in small ways as far as engine teardown and rebuild is concerned..just my opinion of course..drivetrain work is easier on my chevy rather than the ford in certain ways.
It would be cool to see you guys do modern vs old school 1960-1970s shoot out of comparable setups. I’m dumb so maybe it would be a completely lop sided comparison but it would be cool.
How about this video? ruclips.net/video/tGStYw4Luhg/видео.html
Old derby racer here. Take away the water ) see which one runs longer )
This is a good comparison I'm a fan of the Big 3 mainly old school, I will never mix and match I keep everything Ford, Ford, Chevy, Chevy and Dodge, Dodge. Would be nice to see a 3 way match.
Get an AMC,, has parts from all 3,, LOLOL
Yessir I agree. I’m an old school Chevy fan but I appreciate them all. Check out Richard Holdner. He has done all 3. Not sure if he had them specked out this close though. This was definitely a good comparison.
A Chevy in a Foxbody is hard to beat
@@bigboreracing356 a ford in a foxbody is better, why basterdize a classic car..
Sunbeam Tiger is worth the mention, not that you can find one.
One thing is for sure 👈🏼 my Briggs & Stratton cuts better. 😎
It's almost like physics dictates how engines make power. Put the same air, fuel, and spark through the same number of cubic inches at the same time and you make the same power. IT'S MAGIC! No really it's called physics and physics don't care about your feelings.
😂
Very true
The most surprising thing was the ford and Chevy having equal price tags.
Some people would go for the larger one and in this case they would be right. Of course the engine with the slightly bigger displacement and higher compression produced the more power even if it was a small amount. Reality is not just cost or size it’s often availability or weight or even size of the vehicle that your planing to use. Sure you might get either one in stock form like a former police car or taxi or just an used car that has either one from an elderly person that’s only being used to go to church or bingo . Often the choice is not a choice but just luck that you came across one for the right price.
@@ryurc3033 Not to those of us that pay attention. Over the last 10 years especially, before that I would say that Ford was more expensive but as LS stuff has slowly taken over the Chevy camp the classic small block parts have gone up in price more so than the Ford parts. Demand has waned because of the popularity of the LS making the small block parts cost more to produce as the production runs get smaller and smaller.
At what timing curve? Should've played with the timing. The SBC loves alot of timing.
A boss 351 Cleveland would have beat them both
the sbf is a 21degree head, and it has better valve to bore placement, as well as a better csa because more pushrod room
It’s what makes the ford a disappointment here. All that and it has a superior firing order
@@ZONES89RS it matters when you want 600hp+ na
What is the weight difference?
So where was the test for the 351 Cleveland????
If they had used the 351 4V there would have been NO CONTEST.
I prefer the Ford design. Separate ports and front distributor. This coming from a long time Chevy guy in my younger years.
Windsor all the way
How about using the best production head for each engine?
Cleveland head for the win.
@@benjaminwayneb I’m a Chevy guy and I agree. 👍
This was fun, but I’m still a Mopar guy. Would of liked to see a 340 or a 360 in the mix.
I've never had interest in mopars but I bet money a 340 or 360 would make more power. They run really hard when set up right.
340 is a screamin mutha and they were all high performance
The 351 has a slight advantage over the 350 in that the spread port design of the Ford is slightly better than the shared port design of the Chevrolet. The extra two tenths of an inch stroke length on the Ford doesn't give it any advantage.
I'd rather have the 350 over the 351W, 351C over both. back in the 80's edelbrock had a 351C at over 700hp, pump gas, on their dyno. fun fact: the Miami Vice white Ferrari had a 351C NOS injected because the factory motor didn't have the power needed for the stunts.
The "Testarossa" they used for stunts was a reskinned Pantera specifically built for stunt driving (it had cool touches like a third brake pedal for just the rear brakes to set the car up for sliding turns). They used real Testarossas for all of the close up shots.
@@yosemite-e2v oh yeah, I forgot that part, it was a long time ago.
I never missed a Friday night episode of Miami Vice. I thought the black Ferrari had a 350 SBC And the white Testarrossa had a 351-W on
nitrous.
@@StainlessTIG2 You could very well be right, I'm relying on old memories and Lyme + two concussions. one thing I do remember, GO EAGLES!
@@rnrsteev As much as I can’t stand the Eagles, I hated too see the Eagles get cheated out of a Super Bowl win like they did. One of the best Super Bowls that I’ve watched until that stupid call. It ruined that game. Not to mention, I cant count how many times I saw the same defensive grab and not get called through out the season, and they call it in the Super Bowl. Kinda reminded me of the 70’s Cowboys-Steelers Super Bowl games. The officiating favored the Steelers. Mahomes is going to get that special Brady treatment because he’s a money machine for the NFL.
All hail the LS motor. Anything from Ford needs to be Fixed Or Repaired Daily.
Awesome test! I was pretty hard on you guys a couple years ago with the 455 vs 460 shootout. Not because I'm a Ford guy, but because of the build differences. This was really impressive and absolutely demonstrates that in similar applications either motor is a great choice! For this I would stick with the bow tie motor because even though the Ford made a couple more HP and Torque, you demonstrated on a similar build there just isn't enough difference. Also, in what I would be looking at for a 350ish application would most likely be a Chevy platform.
both engine makes about 200hp and 400lbs of torque at 1500rpm so if you go over that youre done
Love to see FE 427 vs Chevy 427
Ford been the best from the beginning, always been higher revving, longer lasting, means more fun
Nope. Mopar has been king for 60 years.
I agree .....I always had better luck with Fords and they lasted longer
distributor infront wins races. There’s a reason chevreolet decided to base their latest cam in block engine is just a modern Ford windsor not a modern sbc that should tell you everything about which one is better here too bad the cheap counterfeit LS doesn’t have the good oiling the Windsor does
Biggest difference is the stroke capabilities. The 350 sbc 383 is as far as most stock blocks can go and the 351w can go to 410 most stock block . Sbc 400 tho would probably blow both engine out however.
396 stroker is common for a 350 engine but generally was 87+
351w can go to 427w
Great comparison and totally disproves all the legions of keyboard experts that have been saying for years that the SBF Ford design is worse?, harder to find parts?, more expensive to build?, less power?, etc, etc, are just full of it and have been regurgitating nonsense that they heard from others who have never built one. SBC and SBF are nearly the same to build for power on the street/strip. Now lets hear all the haters reply!!!
Best engine by displacement IMO
-Oldsmobile 215 v-8
-Chrysler 225 slant-6
Chevy 265/283
-Ford Windsor 302
-Chevy 327
-Chevy LS1 350
-Chrysler 383
Chevy 400
-Chrysler 426 Hemi
-Chevy LS7 427
-Chrysler 440
-Olds 455
-Chevy 502
Crazy how easy it is to make 400hp nowdays
What will us car guys poke fun at each other tho if the chevy and ford debate doesn't exist? 🍻
What could u do if u added a few highend parts to the motors
What was the camshaft set at in each engine? Were they both set at the advance?
What this test fails to take into consideration is the glaring fact that building a Chevy will always yield more horsepower per dollar. Be curious to see a breakdown of the costs of all the parts laid out side by side. I guarantee the Chevy can be built for less.
I agree
Watch again. They said the parts cost for both builds was nearly identical.
@@delbertmcfinklestein8576 It's not that it can't be done. It's that it's not as practical to do. If you think otherwise, great. I'll stick to my Chevrolet.
andrewbecker YOU were not paying attention because he addressed that "issue" and said the costs were almost identical !!!! DUUUUUHHHHH!!!!!!
@@wilburfinnigan2142 your correct, but my point still stands. 9 outta 10 times the average street built smallblock Chevy WILL be more cost effective.
This isn’t fair. You painted the ford blue but the Chevy black. Chevy orange gives it at LEAST 25 extra HP
Stickers help HP too!
Ask all the Honda Tards!
No debate...
Gapp and Roush, Dyno Don, and Mr Glidden pummeled the competition so badly with the 351C that to this day, remains the most handicapped engine in PS racing history.
whats up with that glowing header pipe? on the sbc? is that normal?
FORD ALL DAY!!
Distributor in the back gang
With the best factory production OEM iron heads available for each engine family, the Chevy would have a huge advantage on a Windsor Ford. The aftermarket heads definitely even the score. The stock Windsor heads just weren't designed with big flow and power in mind. Of course, an equivalent build level OEM iron head Boss 351 would put the hurt to any stock iron head 350 SBC.
If attempting to answer the question, maybe using the best factory casting heads would be the best way to do so?🤔
Do a 7.3L Godzilla VS Chev showdown
Holley XP 750😊 or 600 whatever
Great show, love how they challenge the myths in the engine world.
Question would it be safe to say a 383 Chevy motor would be considered a medium BLOCK? Thx
Oil sloshing towards the back of the engine uncovers a front sump oil pickup. Result: spun bearings, lost race. Fords suck. Dual sumps in the Fox body engine is better, but two oil drain plugs equals longer time wasted waiting for the oil to drain. Fords suck.
I've been pointing this out to the Ford guys for years, especially when they brag about the dizzy being in the right place on a Ford. It would be great if everyone was racing in reverse.
Glad they used the 351 Windsor instead of the 302!!! Now do a ford 302 vs chevy 305!!
Been watching 5.0 IROC-Z Crapmaros in my 5.0 Foxbody Mustang's rearview mirror since 1985!
Would have been really cool if you weighed them both as well
The Ford probably weighs 12 pounds more
A 302 bottom end weighs 180 a 351w weighs 260 just watching another video on that I was blown away
SBC all the way 🙌😏🤙
So glad to see that finally we see the FORD is better.
nobody is better, they all break at the worst possible times. except my old Ford.
They always were
The Ford has higher compression ratio. If they were exact same compression ratio, guarantee that small block would be a few extra ponies than the Windsor.
I put together a 351m.. Yes a modified with stock 2v heads and a 252 comp. Very small cam and an intake and headers and it has more grunt and mid range power than any Chevy 350 that I've ever experienced.
@Whatta well on the flip side. The exhaust port flow on a SBC is a better design than the ford's. So I'd call it a wash.
Both are respectable engines. I am a Ford guy, but I am not gonna hate on the Chevy. At least not that I am older 😂
When I was a kid, my dad told me that hp doesn't care what name is on the valve covers. I guess the old man was right! It was interesting to see a comparison between the two brands from the same era. There has been a trend to "ls swap" everything lately. Of course, the ls has 55 years of technological advantage on the windsor so it makes sense that it makes more power. Ford had been out of the pushrod game for so long. But now, the godzilla engine puts them back on par technologically. It would be interesting to see when the aftermarket for the 7.3 / 6.8 engines catch up with the ls. I suspect that the results will be basically what we saw here.
I agree with Freiburger , you won't notice the difference in tq or hp , but in the past I always thought the Chevy had a better flowing head , I guess in stock trim , but technology has obviously come to the show with the AFR heads flow numbers and 2 cubic inches 😉
I’m disappointed the ford didn’t actually out right win this. More compression, better valve angle, better firing order…..
I've followed Freiburger , since the 80s in CAR CRAFT and numerous other articles , HE is by far one of the coolest Mechanical geniuses I've ever seen , HE can make pure junk absolutely scream with just a few bolt on, ALL HAIL DAVID FREIBURGER !!!
Now a genuine question I have. As a guy who prefers SBF in my foxbodies… what is the point of doing a sbc if they produce similar numbers @ similar cost?
Half the price
SBF has been dominant for years.
Which is exactly why Chevy has WAY more racing wins.
Would be interesting to compare an AMC 360 and a Mopar 360 together like this.