Chevy vs Ford V8 Showdown! Small-Block or Windsor? | Engine Masters | MotorTrend

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  • Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024

Комментарии • 1,1 тыс.

  • @MotorTrendWatch
    @MotorTrendWatch  Год назад +33

    What surprised you most about these tests?

    • @yamfingaz5598
      @yamfingaz5598 Год назад +8

      The fact that you are reposting old content is probably the most surprising, or maybe it isn't 🤔

    • @MrLIVELINESOLUTIONS
      @MrLIVELINESOLUTIONS Год назад +8

      Engines are air pumps and the same design and dimensions with a different logo will reproduce the same results. Except the Chevy will weigh less, fit more places and have a lower center of gravity.

    • @MilkMan608
      @MilkMan608 Год назад +1

      ​@yamfingaz5598 What information of value have you posted,?

    • @DeusTex-Mex
      @DeusTex-Mex Год назад +7

      @@MrLIVELINESOLUTIONS How do you figure? they both weigh just over 500lb when in stock all-iron form. And the 351w is about 2 inches narrower.... have you ever seen them on stands side-by-side?

    • @billyjoejimbob56
      @billyjoejimbob56 Год назад +1

      In stock configuration, the Ford has .256 inch longer rods, accounting for some but not all of the .472 inch greater deck height.

  • @alexcorona
    @alexcorona Год назад +92

    Thank you for actually using a 351, every other magazine always tests the 302 vs a 350 which is not a fair comparison.

    • @beezowdoodoozoppitybopbopb9488
      @beezowdoodoozoppitybopbopb9488 Год назад +16

      FR. I've noticed that as well. If you want to compare apples to apples the displacement has to be close. I'd like to see a 5.0 ho build up against a similarly spec'd 305

    • @turbo4zetec
      @turbo4zetec Год назад +5

      It’s always been that way. They used to compare the the 5.0l to the sb350 and the 351w to the 454. GM’s motors always seem to be bigger in displacement compared to their competition. Overcompensating is the way.

    • @bigpigslapperoinktoo4953
      @bigpigslapperoinktoo4953 Год назад +2

      @@turbo4zetec Ford 460 ci,, Chevy 454,, really dude??

    • @3751britishcolumbia
      @3751britishcolumbia Год назад +7

      ​@@bigpigslapperoinktoo4953you're not understanding what he's saying. He said that Chevy engines are usually compared to the smaller engine of their competitors. Nobody is comparing a 454 to the 460 because there is no comparison. That's why the 454 is usually compared to the 351w or something smaller.

    • @alvin7089
      @alvin7089 Год назад +12

      I've read this statement before... Dollar per dollar chevy wins. Mod per mod ford takes it every time. Ford is better than chevy hands down. 302 is better than 305. 351 is better than 350. And 460 is better than 454. I've read in forums word per word page per page. And equally sized and modded ford will out power and live a chevy.

  • @ConcussedGaming
    @ConcussedGaming Год назад +80

    What a badass test! Love engine masters and both of these guys too! Been watching since Roadkill season 1. Episode one and I can never get enough of these two!

  • @Trenton-om9qs
    @Trenton-om9qs Год назад +82

    I'm a Ford guy and I'd personally take the 351 Windsor. But both are legendary engines and both are respectable

    • @silicon212
      @silicon212 Год назад +3

      I'm kinda partial to the 350 myself, but that 351W is an excellent engine. Honestly, they're pretty closely matched in both performance and reliability.

    • @retrocompaq5212
      @retrocompaq5212 11 месяцев назад

      its not the cleveland that you want to get? my friend had a windsor in his foxbody and i swear any fwd car with 130hp or more was faster, my friend always said, on day ill get the cleveland and people wont laugh anymore... my chevy cobalt made a full 4 sec quicker on the 1/4 mile, it was that bad

    • @silicon212
      @silicon212 11 месяцев назад +4

      @@retrocompaq5212 The Cleveland has better flowing factory heads for sure, but the Windsor is a stronger overall platform.

    • @polchinski123
      @polchinski123 11 месяцев назад +5

      Id rather have a 351 cleveland but a windsor would do

    • @MrSlimeMan01
      @MrSlimeMan01 9 месяцев назад +5

      @@retrocompaq5212 Cleveland can handle more power on stock block, that’s why people want them over the windsors. As for why your friends fox was so slow, that’s probably because it was stock af. I’ve got a 351w in my 84 fox and it definitely hurts some feelings lol

  • @thefounding5879
    @thefounding5879 Год назад +363

    They are not the same. That distributor being in the front makes life sooooooo much easier.

    • @jeremypike9153
      @jeremypike9153 Год назад +30

      ​​@@bigboreracing356 unless you are the guy working on the distributor. Try swapping out distributors when they are under the cowl. Check out a dodge ram 318/360 they absolutely suck to do. Chevy wasn't as bad they didn't build the car over top of the distributor.

    • @mdingle11
      @mdingle11 Год назад +6

      ​@Pike one vehicle they did block the distributor pretty good was the Buick roadmaster. Sister in law had one and I had to do the ICM on it. What a pain.

    • @chewybrand238
      @chewybrand238 Год назад +17

      Any engine with the distributer in front! Thanks, Ford!

    • @youtubecantsaveallthesnowf8601
      @youtubecantsaveallthesnowf8601 Год назад +1

      Or......you could step into the last century.

    • @Texasmule
      @Texasmule Год назад +10

      ​@@bigboreracing356 distributor in the back also just go smooth with crank physics

  • @jojog8304
    @jojog8304 Год назад +80

    Winner: AFR. Heads made both shine.

    • @I_like_turtles_67
      @I_like_turtles_67 Год назад

      Did they both have AFR 195s?

    • @B1Springfield
      @B1Springfield Год назад +5

      Right you are lol. That’s why it wasn’t a 351C in this test

    • @alertgasper
      @alertgasper 3 месяца назад +2

      it does help equalize the comparison. would be fun to run a vortec 350 against a 351W with GT40P heads, but Richard Holdener has likely done it already.

  • @Fire.4Effect
    @Fire.4Effect Год назад +25

    Ford Chev or Chrysler V8.
    Doesn't matter.
    They all still sound better than the tumble dryer motor in a Tesla

    • @Bloodcurling
      @Bloodcurling Месяц назад

      You're a weird dude.
      These engines are great, but the tesla would kill these in a drag race

  • @314jeepsnmopars3
    @314jeepsnmopars3 Год назад +66

    Now you guys just need to get a Mopar 360 on here as close to spec too.

    • @rnrsteev
      @rnrsteev Год назад +5

      how about the 318? isn't that considered one of the most underated?

    • @Welcometofacsistube
      @Welcometofacsistube Год назад +12

      340

    • @314jeepsnmopars3
      @314jeepsnmopars3 Год назад +6

      @@rnrsteev I loved the 318 Magnum in my old ZJ Grand Cherokee. I suggested the 360 since it's the closest in displacement to these. But it's a great engine too.

    • @dond5103
      @dond5103 Год назад +3

      Yeah, it's only fair.

    • @thomasmcghee2468
      @thomasmcghee2468 Год назад +9

      340 is pound for pound a beast when built right

  • @samuelriester1419
    @samuelriester1419 Год назад +9

    One other thing that could be contributing to the horsepower difference is the distributor location. If you are getting your timing from the distributor, the further away from the timing chain the distributor is it will have more timing deflection the higher the RPM due to the pressure from moving the valves creating a torsional twist on the camshaft. If you are using crank trigger ignition, this does not matter, and from what I have seen as far as it being measured, it's only been detectable at very high RPMs usually starting around 7k, but for a horsepower difference. As small as you all saw, this could contribute I believe.

  • @Intimidator82
    @Intimidator82 Год назад +41

    Did anyone else notice the glowing #5 header pipe on the SBC? Looks like it was a tad on the lean side, but thats hard to fine tune using a carburetor

    • @tonyelliott7734
      @tonyelliott7734 Год назад +1

      Excess fuel burning in the header pipe.

    • @hugieflhr03
      @hugieflhr03 Год назад +5

      Exhaust valve might be a little too tight.

    • @skiptastic1000
      @skiptastic1000 Год назад +5

      All I hear is excuses .... FORD RULZZZ. CHEVY DROOOOOOLLLZ

    • @Intimidator82
      @Intimidator82 Год назад +2

      @@hugieflhr03 yeah, never thought of that, good point.

    • @brandonbell433
      @brandonbell433 Год назад +13

      @@skiptastic1000 not making a excuse but I mean. The ford did have more compression AND more cubic inch but only made 5 more HP 🤷‍♂️. That’s not really impressive

  • @r000tbeer
    @r000tbeer Год назад +8

    No surprise. With all components being fairly equal, it only makes sense the output is equal as well. After that it's just about which brand you want to give your money to.

  • @motownXJdad9565
    @motownXJdad9565 Год назад +6

    now lets see once and for all, lets test to see what the baddest small block on the planet,---351C vs 340mopar vs 350 chevy. im voting 351 Cleveland

    • @craigcampbell8560
      @craigcampbell8560 Год назад +1

      Until it dies from oil starvation on the racetrack thanks to the idiotic front oil sump.

  • @stevethomas1301
    @stevethomas1301 Год назад +28

    Would be nice to see Cleveland 4V or Clevor in the mix

    • @B1Springfield
      @B1Springfield Год назад +4

      AFR wouldn’t sell heads lol. Richard Holdner did a dyno test of a 1970 M code 351C and well:
      351C 4v, stock intake, stock cam, stock heads, headers, distributor, e-water pump, and a holley carb, 365hp, 379ftlb
      240/246 duration cam (xe284h comp)
      Edelbrock air gap dual pane intake
      450hp/411ftlb
      Factory 4v iron closed chamber heads

    • @mikemustang5488
      @mikemustang5488 Год назад +4

      Or even better a Cleveland with good aftermarket heads like CHI.

    • @B1Springfield
      @B1Springfield Год назад +4

      @@mikemustang5488 wouldn’t be fair at that point lol

    • @eclipsegst9419
      @eclipsegst9419 2 месяца назад +1

      @@B1Springfield No but TrickFlow sells heads for all 3. All bets on the Clevor for me.

    • @mylanmiller9656
      @mylanmiller9656 22 дня назад +1

      @@eclipsegst9419 power nation did a Cleveland with the trick flow heads, I don't know how they screwed up but the build was so poor It didn't even make as much power as the Windsor. Then they raved about how great the Windsor was. My stock Boss 351 made 445 at 6100 with just a Roller cam change. and a 750 Holley. the power should have been better but we had to use a restricted adapter to fit the Holley to the Ford spread bore manifold. if we could have found a Squair bore Cleveland cast intake it should have been better

  • @Techcensorshipbot
    @Techcensorshipbot Год назад +16

    It would be cool to see you guys do modern vs old school 1960-1970s shoot out of comparable setups. I’m dumb so maybe it would be a completely lop sided comparison but it would be cool.

    • @MotorTrendWatch
      @MotorTrendWatch  Год назад +1

      How about this video? ruclips.net/video/tGStYw4Luhg/видео.html

  • @EC-mc7vg
    @EC-mc7vg Год назад +26

    Would love to see a 340 dressed out the same and see how it compares.

    • @kensterfr33k
      @kensterfr33k Год назад +6

      the 340 is highly race oriented. a 360 would be better suited to compare against these

    • @conhemi50
      @conhemi50 Год назад +1

      Mopar would make them look silly in my oppinion.

    • @johnhickman106
      @johnhickman106 8 месяцев назад +2

      @@conhemi50 351C enters the chat.

    • @mylanmiller9656
      @mylanmiller9656 22 дня назад

      If you could get a set of equal heads, it would be really close, Getting the lates good parts has always been the problem with both Mopar and AMC. You can build a GM engine and not use a single stock part every part can be bought from the aftermarket.

  • @deadestduck
    @deadestduck Год назад +28

    would of been good to see how each engine responded to some timing changes

    • @matthewklein9225
      @matthewklein9225 Год назад +5

      Yeah. Some of these tests are odd. Also, I could see choosing similar Cams but different engines respond to different profiles.

    • @TylerDuysen
      @TylerDuysen Год назад +5

      from an actual comparitive standpoint that wouldve gave for a much bigger hp number over the sbc sbc before tdc is 8-10 degrees sbf is 10-12 before tdc and in a power application sbc is 12degrees ford is 15+ degrees and total timing the ford actually accepts way more timing than the sbc thats why the distributors were locked out so it was as even as possible

    • @matthewklein9225
      @matthewklein9225 Год назад

      @@TylerDuysen they probably had total timing set at 30 or whatever with no advance curve. Not just the 10 or so base timing. Suppose since the test starts above 3000 all the mechanical advance should be in already

    • @wintonhudelson2252
      @wintonhudelson2252 Год назад

      @@matthewklein9225 yes, I'm thinking in the neighborhood of 34 degrees total on the lockout?

    • @TylerDuysen
      @TylerDuysen Год назад

      @@matthewklein9225 its hard to say because mathmatically im pretty sure they were using base timing no advance. there wouldve been zero mechanichal advance they locked out the distributors. so there couldnt possiblly be mechanichal advance. thats what that aluminum collar on the bottom does it doesnt allow any timing including mechanical advance

  • @feron450
    @feron450 Год назад +19

    Great video. Would have been cool to add in a mopar 360 in there aswell just for comparison.

    • @MotorTrendWatch
      @MotorTrendWatch  Год назад +2

      Good idea!

    • @dandunning4409
      @dandunning4409 Год назад +1

      360? A bit of an advantage over a 351 W or a 350 ya think. Maybe a 340 Mopar but not a big block 360 compared to two small blocks.

    • @god1st.530
      @god1st.530 Год назад

      @@MotorTrendWatch Nah we good on the Gen I mopor test. It's a reason why Gm and Ford small block or Big blocks are raced and use for power deals.

    • @jameshathaway5117
      @jameshathaway5117 Год назад +1

      ​@@dandunning4409360 "big block"... 340 is a good comparison to the 350/351... WTF are you talking about?😂😅 the 360 has way too low compression to be a good comparison and the original 340 is way too high...

    • @dandunning4409
      @dandunning4409 Год назад

      @@jameshathaway5117 WTF are you talking about !!! Calm down KAREN. Not including a Mopar was not fair. I'm a Ford guy 100% but it would have been nice to include something from Mopar and the 360 was just a suggestion so STFU!

  • @scottb8175
    @scottb8175 Год назад +5

    With the best factory production OEM iron heads available for each engine family, the Chevy would have a huge advantage on a Windsor Ford. The aftermarket heads definitely even the score. The stock Windsor heads just weren't designed with big flow and power in mind. Of course, an equivalent build level OEM iron head Boss 351 would put the hurt to any stock iron head 350 SBC.

  • @givemeabreakdoc
    @givemeabreakdoc Год назад +1

    I prefer the 350. My brother, who knows WAAAY more about engines than I do, prefers the Windsor. But he does admit, that 350 was one of the best.

  • @DBSSTEELER
    @DBSSTEELER Год назад +8

    Watch Richard Holdner's videos. He proves time and again that brand does not matter. Similar head flow, cam timing, displacement, and compression will all make similar power.

  • @Mr.Schitzengigglez
    @Mr.Schitzengigglez Год назад +12

    The 4 bolt main conversion for the Windsor, made it practically indestructible.
    And, the advancements in the 8.8" rear, make an old grocery getter capable of walking on what we used to build in the 80s, out of a cleveland/9" combination.

    • @jameshathaway5117
      @jameshathaway5117 Год назад +2

      ​@carminereddYou forgot the lsd 8.8 Explorer rear! I myself am guilty of sticking them in more than one place they don't belong. I narrowed and rebuilt one for my buddy's DD 65 Barracuda and it has taken more clutch drops than I care to count with just shy of 400hp.

    • @drtb69
      @drtb69 4 месяца назад +1

      Don't even need a 4 bolt main windsor just arp bolts or studs will hold up to 750hp fine

  • @rono3045
    @rono3045 Год назад +3

    A boss 351 Cleveland would have beat them both

  • @1VaDude
    @1VaDude Год назад +11

    A very good comparison. You can't go wrong with either engine.

  • @docholiday41colt3
    @docholiday41colt3 Год назад +3

    I'm a ford guy hands down 4 generations, but I LOVE them both and Mopar all American classic icons 🇺🇸

  • @ZboeC5
    @ZboeC5 Год назад +109

    It's almost like physics dictates how engines make power. Put the same air, fuel, and spark through the same number of cubic inches at the same time and you make the same power. IT'S MAGIC! No really it's called physics and physics don't care about your feelings.

    • @chucksgarage7165
      @chucksgarage7165 Год назад +5

      😂

    • @jasonamerica7618
      @jasonamerica7618 Год назад +5

      Very true

    • @ryurc3033
      @ryurc3033 Год назад +7

      The most surprising thing was the ford and Chevy having equal price tags.

    • @linkloudenback8359
      @linkloudenback8359 Год назад +4

      Some people would go for the larger one and in this case they would be right. Of course the engine with the slightly bigger displacement and higher compression produced the more power even if it was a small amount. Reality is not just cost or size it’s often availability or weight or even size of the vehicle that your planing to use. Sure you might get either one in stock form like a former police car or taxi or just an used car that has either one from an elderly person that’s only being used to go to church or bingo . Often the choice is not a choice but just luck that you came across one for the right price.

    • @ZboeC5
      @ZboeC5 Год назад +2

      @@ryurc3033 Not to those of us that pay attention. Over the last 10 years especially, before that I would say that Ford was more expensive but as LS stuff has slowly taken over the Chevy camp the classic small block parts have gone up in price more so than the Ford parts. Demand has waned because of the popularity of the LS making the small block parts cost more to produce as the production runs get smaller and smaller.

  • @christophersine84
    @christophersine84 Год назад +3

    I've said it for YEARS, you take any small block V8 from that era and do the exact same build, they will be virtually identical in performance.

  • @ricksmith7659
    @ricksmith7659 Год назад +15

    Now let's see a 283 sbc vs a 289 sbf!

    • @SealofPerfection
      @SealofPerfection Год назад

      Well, since they make 1.2hp per cube, roughly....multiply 1.2 x 6 and that'll be the difference.

    • @twolak1972
      @twolak1972 6 месяцев назад +1

      HAHAHA you re kidding right. 289 SBF would eat the pooch 283. 289 is capable of 400 + Hp.

    • @ricksmith7659
      @ricksmith7659 6 месяцев назад

      @@twolak1972 I was referring to a cubic inch vs cubic inch comparison

    • @tylervaughn6328
      @tylervaughn6328 3 месяца назад +1

      Right what difference would you expect

  • @codyleemeece
    @codyleemeece Год назад +10

    It would be nice to see some Pontiac stuff. I understand it’s a fair bit more niche as far as the hobby goes but there’s still a lot of folks both young and old building them and getting started.

    • @darrellsomers5427
      @darrellsomers5427 Год назад +4

      Stock Pontiac heads don't flow good # unless its a SD 455 that's why stock Pontiac cams were not much over 500 lift the heads didn't flow much over 500 lift ,but Pontiac reached out to a company back in the day called AF when they built the SD 455 and sent the factory SD heads to AF they moved the valves around so it would flow good # some say it would out flow a hemi head that same company now is known as AFR air flow research

    • @codyleemeece
      @codyleemeece Год назад

      @@darrellsomers5427 there are also “factory style” aluminum heads by Kaufman Performance as well as RAV heads available now

  • @addictedtorust3487
    @addictedtorust3487 Год назад +8

    Fair test . To often I hear the chevy guys comparing the 350 to the 302

    • @chrispokorney6801
      @chrispokorney6801 Год назад +6

      Yea Chevy guys are notorious for that because they know what happens when you use a fair comparison using the 351 vs 350. Lol It's not their fault that their dads brainwashed them. Lol😂😂

    • @jonathancisneros7150
      @jonathancisneros7150 Месяц назад

      And it’s crazy how 302 will go head to head with bigger engines

  • @joshwebber98
    @joshwebber98 Год назад +2

    I own both engines, both very great for performance..I would have to say the chevy is less desirable to work on than the ford in small ways as far as engine teardown and rebuild is concerned..just my opinion of course..drivetrain work is easier on my chevy rather than the ford in certain ways.

  • @matthewjohnson2495
    @matthewjohnson2495 Год назад +7

    I’ve had a 73 ,75 and a 79 Blazer and I own a 79 Bronco that I’ve had about 10 years or so and all three blazers together are nowhere near as tuff as a 79 Bronco. A 12 bolt rear end is a piece of glass when you run a 35 inch tire and a 350 turbo trans is fine in a car but once again the 350 turbo trans does not like 35 inch tires where as a Ford 9 inch rear end and a C6 trans laughs at 35 inch tires and if you don’t believe me try it your self

    • @xxkingslayemxxgamer5553
      @xxkingslayemxxgamer5553 Год назад +1

      Dam right brother

    • @silicon212
      @silicon212 Год назад

      The C6 and TH350 are not in the same class. If you want to do an apples to apples comparison, then put a TH400 against that C6. However, the 9 inch is the better rear axle.

    • @matthewjohnson2495
      @matthewjohnson2495 Год назад

      @@silicon212 The 400 don’t compare to the C6 either.
      A 400 is almost the same as a 350 but it don’t have a passing gear linkage

    • @silicon212
      @silicon212 Год назад

      @@matthewjohnson2495 it's not close to a th350 in any way. Stronger, different ratios, different design entirely. Shift linkage has nothing to do with anything here, stop creating strawmen.

    • @charleshollingsworth1583
      @charleshollingsworth1583 6 дней назад

      AMEN brother chevy is junk, i grew up on a alabama farm dad a chevy guy we had a cow pasture full of dead chevy square bodies some never made it a year and was garbage. Whwn i graduated high school i bought a brand new 1985 f-150 and drove it 35 years rolled the odometer 7 times landing on 20ish. 1st year 302efi manual trans hardly ever ant major problems.

  • @fredramos9206
    @fredramos9206 Год назад +6

    If the Chevy would of won, this guy would have telling his neighbors and the entire town about how great the Chevy is?😩

    • @brandonbell433
      @brandonbell433 Год назад +2

      If that ford didn’t have more cubic inch and 2 two tenths more compression it wouldn’t of made more power

    • @fredramos9206
      @fredramos9206 Год назад +2

      @@brandonbell433
      Yep, when a Ford wins a Chevy starts crying Just like Warren Johnson, when a chevy wins they're all smiles.

    • @brandonbell433
      @brandonbell433 Год назад +3

      @@fredramos9206 I’m not crying I’m simply stating the ford had advantages lol. It’s not like it was perfectly equal

    • @ZONES89RS
      @ZONES89RS Год назад

      Any ford guy should be disappointed in these results. Too many advantages not to make more power.

    • @fredramos9206
      @fredramos9206 Год назад +1

      @@ZONES89RS
      Yep, if it was the other way around, the entire chevy camp would be grinning.

  • @rogerbennett2025
    @rogerbennett2025 Год назад +10

    i really like watching this show.... they do so many comparisons .. that ive always wondered about .. like mechanical fans compared to electric fans....2.5 exhaust to 3 inch exhaust ect

  • @timfarley8106
    @timfarley8106 Год назад +5

    Awesome test the best ive seen that was fair.
    I'd love to see same test done on a Cleveland vs Ls chev with same cam compression intake so we can do a 4way comparison.

  • @robertberube2551
    @robertberube2551 Год назад +30

    Great comparison test. The taller deck of the Windsor allows for a much longer connecting rod. The 351M/400 rod with that combination would be an interesting build.

    • @cammontreuil7509
      @cammontreuil7509 10 месяцев назад

      The M rod is too long. And even if you could make a custom piston, the pin would be in the compression ringland area.
      The M rods are wide at the big end, they would have to be cut.

    • @TLH442
      @TLH442 9 месяцев назад

      Longer rods. Is that an advantage? What about high rpm horsepower? Longer rods are heavy reciprocating components so mass is critical. Just like pistons and connecting rods. Lighter is better. In GP power, its all about the RPM.

  • @owenhunt6796
    @owenhunt6796 Год назад +1

    Hey! if you could find it in your heart could you do an episode on the diffrences between gm small blocks from the 60s. like the pontiac olds and buick v8s and what there diffrences were. the olds v8 is particularly intresting as it was able to keep up with emisions laws till the 90s only using a carb.

  • @andrewbecker3700
    @andrewbecker3700 Год назад +5

    What this test fails to take into consideration is the glaring fact that building a Chevy will always yield more horsepower per dollar. Be curious to see a breakdown of the costs of all the parts laid out side by side. I guarantee the Chevy can be built for less.

    • @kimberlywilliams9757
      @kimberlywilliams9757 Год назад +2

      I agree

    • @delbertmcfinklestein8576
      @delbertmcfinklestein8576 Год назад +6

      Watch again. They said the parts cost for both builds was nearly identical.

    • @andrewbecker3700
      @andrewbecker3700 Год назад +2

      @@delbertmcfinklestein8576 It's not that it can't be done. It's that it's not as practical to do. If you think otherwise, great. I'll stick to my Chevrolet.

    • @wilburfinnigan2142
      @wilburfinnigan2142 Год назад +1

      andrewbecker YOU were not paying attention because he addressed that "issue" and said the costs were almost identical !!!! DUUUUUHHHHH!!!!!!

    • @andrewbecker3700
      @andrewbecker3700 Год назад

      @@wilburfinnigan2142 your correct, but my point still stands. 9 outta 10 times the average street built smallblock Chevy WILL be more cost effective.

  • @gdaytrees4728
    @gdaytrees4728 Год назад +3

    Oil sloshing towards the back of the engine uncovers a front sump oil pickup. Result: spun bearings, lost race. Fords suck. Dual sumps in the Fox body engine is better, but two oil drain plugs equals longer time wasted waiting for the oil to drain. Fords suck.

    • @craigcampbell8560
      @craigcampbell8560 Год назад

      I've been pointing this out to the Ford guys for years, especially when they brag about the dizzy being in the right place on a Ford. It would be great if everyone was racing in reverse.

  • @user-qr7ee2cp4y
    @user-qr7ee2cp4y Год назад +5

    Great show, love how they challenge the myths in the engine world.

  • @_____7704
    @_____7704 Год назад +4

    Do a 7.3L Godzilla VS Chev showdown

  • @bigcountrysgarage2.030
    @bigcountrysgarage2.030 Год назад +12

    This is a good comparison I'm a fan of the Big 3 mainly old school, I will never mix and match I keep everything Ford, Ford, Chevy, Chevy and Dodge, Dodge. Would be nice to see a 3 way match.

    • @bigpigslapperoinktoo4953
      @bigpigslapperoinktoo4953 Год назад +9

      Get an AMC,, has parts from all 3,, LOLOL

    • @thabiznizz
      @thabiznizz Год назад +3

      Yessir I agree. I’m an old school Chevy fan but I appreciate them all. Check out Richard Holdner. He has done all 3. Not sure if he had them specked out this close though. This was definitely a good comparison.

    • @bigboreracing356
      @bigboreracing356 Год назад +2

      A Chevy in a Foxbody is hard to beat

    • @davidgalea6113
      @davidgalea6113 Год назад +10

      @@bigboreracing356 a ford in a foxbody is better, why basterdize a classic car..

    • @rnrsteev
      @rnrsteev Год назад

      Sunbeam Tiger is worth the mention, not that you can find one.

  • @SAUER35
    @SAUER35 Год назад

    This is actually a great video. I'm not surprised because both engines are from the same technology era.

  • @JBAutomotive794
    @JBAutomotive794 Год назад +3

    What will us car guys poke fun at each other tho if the chevy and ford debate doesn't exist? 🍻

  • @jetdriver
    @jetdriver Год назад +4

    This reminds me of the good old
    Days when all this awesome content was on RUclips all the time and not locked behind a paywall.

  • @96biggss
    @96biggss Год назад +7

    What is the weight difference between the two?

    • @craigcampbell8560
      @craigcampbell8560 Год назад +2

      The weight is pretty similar. The 351W probably weighs about 30 lbs more due to the taller deck.

  • @SuperOperator4
    @SuperOperator4 Год назад +2

    Favorite show EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • @wardy98px1
    @wardy98px1 10 месяцев назад +3

    Windsor all the way

  • @ClintonRichards-hf4uf
    @ClintonRichards-hf4uf Год назад +2

    Both engines are awesome.

  • @rnrsteev
    @rnrsteev Год назад +18

    I'd rather have the 350 over the 351W, 351C over both. back in the 80's edelbrock had a 351C at over 700hp, pump gas, on their dyno. fun fact: the Miami Vice white Ferrari had a 351C NOS injected because the factory motor didn't have the power needed for the stunts.

    • @yosemite-e2v
      @yosemite-e2v Год назад +7

      The "Testarossa" they used for stunts was a reskinned Pantera specifically built for stunt driving (it had cool touches like a third brake pedal for just the rear brakes to set the car up for sliding turns). They used real Testarossas for all of the close up shots.

    • @rnrsteev
      @rnrsteev Год назад

      @@yosemite-e2v oh yeah, I forgot that part, it was a long time ago.

    • @StainlessTIG2
      @StainlessTIG2 Год назад

      I never missed a Friday night episode of Miami Vice. I thought the black Ferrari had a 350 SBC And the white Testarrossa had a 351-W on
      nitrous.

    • @rnrsteev
      @rnrsteev Год назад +3

      @@StainlessTIG2 You could very well be right, I'm relying on old memories and Lyme + two concussions. one thing I do remember, GO EAGLES!

    • @StainlessTIG2
      @StainlessTIG2 Год назад

      @@rnrsteev As much as I can’t stand the Eagles, I hated too see the Eagles get cheated out of a Super Bowl win like they did. One of the best Super Bowls that I’ve watched until that stupid call. It ruined that game. Not to mention, I cant count how many times I saw the same defensive grab and not get called through out the season, and they call it in the Super Bowl. Kinda reminded me of the 70’s Cowboys-Steelers Super Bowl games. The officiating favored the Steelers. Mahomes is going to get that special Brady treatment because he’s a money machine for the NFL.

  • @NorthNorth80sBaby
    @NorthNorth80sBaby 7 месяцев назад +2

    This isn’t fair. You painted the ford blue but the Chevy black. Chevy orange gives it at LEAST 25 extra HP

    • @Turbo4Joe363
      @Turbo4Joe363 21 день назад +1

      Stickers help HP too!
      Ask all the Honda Tards!

  • @Pistol85
    @Pistol85 Год назад +5

    I'd like to see it done with a 351 clevo as that's more common here in oz

    • @rnrsteev
      @rnrsteev Год назад +1

      look up "top gear burnout toploader 3.25 gears clevo power" you won't be disappointed.

  • @Coogfan1996
    @Coogfan1996 Год назад

    This episode was filmed in December 2017!! I can't believe its been this long

  • @jamesadamiak6214
    @jamesadamiak6214 Год назад +5

    Now, if the 351 Cleveland was used instead of the Windsor it would be totally different!

    • @TokenTombstone
      @TokenTombstone Год назад

      Not likely. But just in case I am way wrong, how much more power do you think that engine would make over the windsor with a similar setup?

    • @charlesvan13
      @charlesvan13 Год назад

      I think it would still be the same if they used identical heads. The design differences, crank journal diameter, bearings, water passages, etc. don't effect power.

    • @B1Springfield
      @B1Springfield Год назад

      That wouldn’t sell AFR heads though. Richard Holdner did a dyno run.
      1970 M code 351C 4v, stock intake, stock cam, headers, and a holley carb, 365hp, 379ftlb
      240/246 duration cam
      Edelbrock air gap dual pane intake, 450hp/411ftlb
      Iron 4v Closed Chamber heads

  • @toddbob55
    @toddbob55 Год назад +2

    I have always prefered the Ford small block.... GM and the AC Delco parts were always garbage quality compared to the quality of Ford Motorcraft parts. GM Alternators , Fuel pumps ect never lasted very long

    • @ZONES89RS
      @ZONES89RS Год назад +1

      I’ve worked on both. Owned both. Engine wise I was always happy with both.
      Electronics and others little stuff, the GM would have alternators fail more often with aftermarket. Same with starters.
      But factory ford and GM stuff usually went the distance for me. Aftermarket ford stuff for some reason was usually a little longer lasting than the GM aftermarket.

  • @chazknebel4910
    @chazknebel4910 Год назад +3

    FORD ALL DAY!!

  • @635jmt
    @635jmt Год назад

    A few months ago, you guys did a carb shoot out and over a year ago you did one about fuel. I think you guys should try out propane and propane carbs, and see what kinda numbers you can get.

  • @rotaryboy69
    @rotaryboy69 Год назад +4

    Id love to se a chassis dyno with both engines bolted to the same tranny and rear end set up to see if it keeps being the same. I think it should…. I believe the outcome would be decided by car weight then…

    • @alvin7089
      @alvin7089 3 месяца назад

      Well with ford cars generally being lighter than chevy and mopars I think you know what's going to happen.

  • @jasonpowell4847
    @jasonpowell4847 Год назад

    I guess it comes down to you. Is there a significant weight difference between the engines. And a significant difference in measurement with heist deaths. For smaller engine bays or ability to put it for their back in the chassis?

  • @wintonhudelson2252
    @wintonhudelson2252 Год назад +23

    You two do a great job and Steve is a treasure.

  • @Mr357Cleveland
    @Mr357Cleveland Год назад +1

    I'm guessing you guys could run a 351C in the same comparison, but it would hand the other two their arses. 😂

  • @badgerbait8351
    @badgerbait8351 Год назад +48

    Why I like building the SBC back in the day: More OE head options, and steel crankshafts and 4-bolt main caps were common.

    • @jeremypike9153
      @jeremypike9153 Год назад +16

      It's just easier to find power cheaply with O.E. parts on a Chevy. The same can be made with the Ford but using O.E. parts it gets expensive really quickly. Aftermarket parts wise it really doesn't matter because they are pretty much the same cost wise for equivalent parts.

    • @mavmo192
      @mavmo192 Год назад

      Never made sense to me to cut your throat on the fan blade just to time a chevy.

    • @mariocooldude9092
      @mariocooldude9092 Год назад +13

      And dude .. distributor in the rear!!!! Only way to fly!!! Probably another reason the small Chevy is the #1 choice for hot rod builders... aesthetically much much better

    • @chrismathes3647
      @chrismathes3647 Год назад +7

      Lmao great for setting an engine further back too 🤣

    • @badgerbait8351
      @badgerbait8351 Год назад +4

      This allows the driver to adjust timing from the cockpit!

  • @seanharper8408
    @seanharper8408 Год назад +1

    FORD F.T.W - Yeah, you guys should do a Rear-mounted Turbo Sleeper 1965 Ford Fairlane 500 like im try to build. See how much boost that 289 can take + It would be Nice to see Real Steel Ford Cars Destroy Them Bow-tie Sissy's. Or do up a 64 or 65 Falcon - but keep it all Ford Please!!! miss the Rotsun "Turbo 302 Z"= Turbo`s are the Future - If u want to keep up Right?

  • @JaredJCarpenter
    @JaredJCarpenter Год назад +7

    Would have been really cool if you weighed them both as well

    • @hughjass1835
      @hughjass1835 Год назад

      The Ford probably weighs 12 pounds more

    • @jaypisme2343
      @jaypisme2343 Год назад

      A 302 bottom end weighs 180 a 351w weighs 260 just watching another video on that I was blown away

  • @karigreyd2808
    @karigreyd2808 11 месяцев назад

    Out of curiosity why are you averaging power and not taking the area underneath the curve. That would give a more accurate description which engine has more power over the rev range.

  • @nowwaynamenit
    @nowwaynamenit Год назад +3

    Amazing they both are air pumps with the same displacement very cool to see play out.

  • @erniehoffer1784
    @erniehoffer1784 Год назад

    Please do a episode on long tube headers vs short tube headers. Tuned headers vs off the shelf tube headers. The best Chevy manifolds vs the worst headers.

  • @philmygroin6601
    @philmygroin6601 Год назад +3

    Biggest difference is the stroke capabilities. The 350 sbc 383 is as far as most stock blocks can go and the 351w can go to 410 most stock block . Sbc 400 tho would probably blow both engine out however.

    • @ZONES89RS
      @ZONES89RS Год назад

      396 stroker is common for a 350 engine but generally was 87+

    • @Bacongrease00
      @Bacongrease00 Год назад +2

      351w can go to 427w

  • @jaxsonburton7079
    @jaxsonburton7079 Год назад

    good video I was so tired of seeing the 350 chevy against the 302 ford.

  • @mzaccagnini7179
    @mzaccagnini7179 Год назад +7

    That was agreat comparison. I've been a chevy fan all my life. So I'll keep running Chevy

    • @ronnielewis1862
      @ronnielewis1862 Год назад +1

      I agree, I've got a garage full of Chevy part's and will never own a ford!!! Great test but only Chevy's here

    • @sprint2648
      @sprint2648 Месяц назад

      @@ronnielewis1862I used to by that way, A fanboy and all and then I decided to grow up.

  • @danmallery9142
    @danmallery9142 Год назад +2

    When I was a kid, my dad told me that hp doesn't care what name is on the valve covers. I guess the old man was right! It was interesting to see a comparison between the two brands from the same era. There has been a trend to "ls swap" everything lately. Of course, the ls has 55 years of technological advantage on the windsor so it makes sense that it makes more power. Ford had been out of the pushrod game for so long. But now, the godzilla engine puts them back on par technologically. It would be interesting to see when the aftermarket for the 7.3 / 6.8 engines catch up with the ls. I suspect that the results will be basically what we saw here.

  • @mrb.5610
    @mrb.5610 Год назад +3

    How does the weights of the engines compare - any difference ?

  • @EchoFaustMusic
    @EchoFaustMusic Год назад +2

    Would be interesting to compare an AMC 360 and a Mopar 360 together like this.

  • @richardcoleman9645
    @richardcoleman9645 Год назад +4

    So where was the test for the 351 Cleveland????

    • @twolak1972
      @twolak1972 6 месяцев назад +1

      If they had used the 351 4V there would have been NO CONTEST.

  • @justinblain928
    @justinblain928 15 дней назад

    What’s the cost difference between the 2 to do that way? Yet another comparison that makes a difference

  • @jcnpresser
    @jcnpresser Год назад +7

    At least the distributor is in the right location on the ford

    • @bryandraughn9830
      @bryandraughn9830 Год назад +1

      Since you'll be changing out the condenser once a week.😅

    • @jcnpresser
      @jcnpresser Год назад

      @@bryandraughn9830 tfi

    • @craigcampbell8560
      @craigcampbell8560 Год назад +1

      But the reason it's in the front is moronic at best. The Dizzy is in the front on a Ford because the oil sump and pump are also in the front. The problem with that is the oil is forced to the back of the engine under full throttle. I'd MUCH rather have a dizzy in the back than spun bearings from oil starvation.

    • @ericanderson4441
      @ericanderson4441 Год назад

      ​@Craig Campbell not all ford small blocks are front sump.

    • @craigcampbell8560
      @craigcampbell8560 Год назад

      @@ericanderson4441 True. Newer Fords aren't. It's like the dipshits at Ford finally figured out it was a stupid design.

  • @edwinwinn8876
    @edwinwinn8876 Год назад

    I had a friend back in the day who owned a dodge dart swinger with 340 4 speed, it was a little monster, I was surprised with its power. I had a 1970 428 mustang auto, never really captured it's power to the back tires.

  • @BillWood1
    @BillWood1 Год назад +18

    Awesome test! I was pretty hard on you guys a couple years ago with the 455 vs 460 shootout. Not because I'm a Ford guy, but because of the build differences. This was really impressive and absolutely demonstrates that in similar applications either motor is a great choice! For this I would stick with the bow tie motor because even though the Ford made a couple more HP and Torque, you demonstrated on a similar build there just isn't enough difference. Also, in what I would be looking at for a 350ish application would most likely be a Chevy platform.

    • @retrocompaq5212
      @retrocompaq5212 11 месяцев назад

      both engine makes about 200hp and 400lbs of torque at 1500rpm so if you go over that youre done

  • @BUILTFORDTOUGH79
    @BUILTFORDTOUGH79 Год назад +2

    I came for the comments

  • @LockieNZ
    @LockieNZ Год назад +6

    The graph is a bit confusing with Ford as red and Chevy as blue 😂

  • @Dan-ge7cy
    @Dan-ge7cy Год назад +2

    Old derby racer here. Take away the water ) see which one runs longer )

  • @PatKempen
    @PatKempen Год назад +5

    What is the weight difference?

  • @alltheboost5363
    @alltheboost5363 Год назад +1

    Essentially, what you're saying is Ford always needs an advantage to keep up with Chevy. A few extra cubic inches a little more compression

  • @yosemite-e2v
    @yosemite-e2v Год назад +45

    Back in the early 1980s the gap between Ford and Chevrolet small block engines was much greater because the factory cylinder heads for Chevrolets had a much better exhaust port than the Windsor head, and affordable aftermarket aluminum cylinder heads were still years away. I bought a set of Brodix street heads for my Camaro in 1987 because I had the money and they were ready for unleaded gas. But a few years later companies were selling aftermarket Ford heads that were much, much better than anything that had been on the market up until then, which really narrowed the gap.

    • @ProjectFairmont
      @ProjectFairmont Год назад +4

      Not so much by 1982. The OEM HO cam, and the factory (‘87-‘95) E7 heads with porting and a 5 angle valve grind worked pretty well.

    • @yosemite-e2v
      @yosemite-e2v Год назад +2

      @@ProjectFairmont But that stuff was still rare and expensive when compared to the availability of some of the better factory SBC heads like the 292 "Turbo" heads. It's too bad too, it could have saved my brother so much trouble when compared to the work he did to put a 351 Cleveland in his '66 Mustang.

    • @bowez9
      @bowez9 Год назад +3

      You forgot Ford had Fuel Injection and was competing 302 v 350.
      Stock for stock Ford is better. If you choose to ditch the GM parts it can be better.

    • @ChuckThree
      @ChuckThree Год назад +13

      It’s all generation and they take turns.
      Ford Flathead over Chevy
      Chevy SBC over Ford Y Block
      Ford 5.0 over Chevy TPI
      Chevy LS over Ford Mod
      Ford Coyote over Chevy LT

    • @ProjectFairmont
      @ProjectFairmont Год назад +8

      @@ChuckThree Well said.

  • @rnrsteev
    @rnrsteev Год назад

    I love the V-8 chat even though I drive a '99 V-6 Explorer. whatever, 4 wheel drive and it doesn't break.

  • @alltherpm
    @alltherpm Год назад +3

    Ford been the best from the beginning, always been higher revving, longer lasting, means more fun

    • @kronk9418
      @kronk9418 Год назад +1

      Nope. Mopar has been king for 60 years.

    • @toddbob55
      @toddbob55 Год назад +1

      I agree .....I always had better luck with Fords and they lasted longer

  • @williamhardes8081
    @williamhardes8081 Год назад

    there you go! still comparing apples and oranges. want true result use standard reco heads as well!

  • @MrSt3v3n82
    @MrSt3v3n82 Год назад +20

    So glad to see that finally we see the FORD is better.

    • @rnrsteev
      @rnrsteev Год назад +2

      nobody is better, they all break at the worst possible times. except my old Ford.

    • @dannykichar9066
      @dannykichar9066 Год назад +4

      They always were

    • @whatta7793
      @whatta7793 Год назад +1

      The Ford has higher compression ratio. If they were exact same compression ratio, guarantee that small block would be a few extra ponies than the Windsor.

    • @lifeenhancements9595
      @lifeenhancements9595 Год назад +1

      I put together a 351m.. Yes a modified with stock 2v heads and a 252 comp. Very small cam and an intake and headers and it has more grunt and mid range power than any Chevy 350 that I've ever experienced.

    • @I_like_turtles_67
      @I_like_turtles_67 Год назад

      ​@Whatta well on the flip side. The exhaust port flow on a SBC is a better design than the ford's. So I'd call it a wash.
      Both are respectable engines. I am a Ford guy, but I am not gonna hate on the Chevy. At least not that I am older 😂

  • @johnc7431
    @johnc7431 Год назад

    What you need to do next. Is start squeezing some nitrous into them. That would be another good show.

  • @racekar80
    @racekar80 Год назад +10

    Good thing you did not use a Cleveland. The Chevy guys would be crying.

    • @ZONES89RS
      @ZONES89RS Год назад

      Hardly.
      This ford was a disappointment for and ford guy as it is. The Cleveland would only do what this engine should have.

    • @donaldfrazier5244
      @donaldfrazier5244 Год назад

      Back in the day I had a 351 C in a stock 72 ranchero GT 4bbl 4 speed that did 100 mph at 4 grand on the tach and red lined at 5200 but would bury the speedo before that! They had awesome power for the time!

  • @randelrobbins1408
    @randelrobbins1408 Год назад +1

    My vortex 5.7L has 397,000, never been rebuilt, could use new hydraulic lifters, but that's it.

  • @MJPilote
    @MJPilote Год назад

    Swap the Winsor for Cleveland and things get much more interesting.

  • @cliffkolinger395
    @cliffkolinger395 Год назад +3

    This was fun, but I’m still a Mopar guy. Would of liked to see a 340 or a 360 in the mix.

    • @mwagner_87
      @mwagner_87 Год назад +2

      I've never had interest in mopars but I bet money a 340 or 360 would make more power. They run really hard when set up right.

    • @Fred_NaughT
      @Fred_NaughT 5 месяцев назад

      340 is a screamin mutha and they were all high performance

  • @rayblack9657
    @rayblack9657 Год назад +1

    Question would it be safe to say a 383 Chevy motor would be considered a medium BLOCK? Thx

  • @lazyhoundracing9621
    @lazyhoundracing9621 Год назад +3

    Those engines have no idea what name is on them.

  • @JW-fh4lr
    @JW-fh4lr Год назад +1

    Funny thing . In the 80s and 90s . Ford had the 5.0 mustangs and chevy had the tuned port 350s 48 more cubes but the mustangs still handed them their asses lol .

  • @thomastaylor1594
    @thomastaylor1594 Год назад +6

    Try the 351 Boss or the m code Cleveland, now we’re talking 🐍

  • @marcosmartinez6380
    @marcosmartinez6380 7 месяцев назад +1

    NOOOOOOO!!!! They Are NOT the same…the 351 sounds better and its for sure going to last a lot longer!!!!

  • @jlarocque84
    @jlarocque84 Год назад +3

    Chevy engines are easier to work on and you don't have to change the transmission when doing engine swaps

    • @penguinsfan251
      @penguinsfan251 Год назад

      SBCs are a pain in the rear to do basic maintenance. I despise the location of the spark plug ports, under the exhaust manifolds. That and the stupid distributor in the rear..
      Hotrodders love SBCs. Good. You can have 'em. Sticky lifters and all.

    • @ZONES89RS
      @ZONES89RS Год назад

      @@penguinsfan251 that’s just another reason I went LS and never looked back.
      Fk a distributor. 😂

    • @penguinsfan251
      @penguinsfan251 Год назад

      ​@@ZONES89RS LS is a great engine, perhaps better than a Coyote, but it always boils down to personal preference.
      No doubt the SBC was better for low dollar mods and drag racing. Ordinary driving..the SBC is still a good engine, but not better than the Windsors.

  • @uncleremis69
    @uncleremis69 Год назад +4

    As a mid 90s budget street racer, it tells me that the fox body is better than the G body. Because we all had small blocks and the fox body won more than lost when compared to G body or F body. Chassis folks, thats how you win races

  • @anthonypesqueira7540
    @anthonypesqueira7540 Год назад +1

    At what timing curve? Should've played with the timing. The SBC loves alot of timing.