As someone who grew up watching baseball in the '70s I find it astounding how little HOF love Steve Garvey receives. He was the face of a historic franchise, had several MVP's including regular season and post season. He was a fixture in the All-Star game and played 1,207 consecutive games (before Ripken came along he was the modern day Ironman). Certainly one of the greatest players in that decade.
I am only familiar with Garvey winning the 1974 NL MVP. I am probably missing something here, but when were his other regular-season and/or post-season MVPs?
According to Bill James, Dewey Evans was one of the best outfielders in MLB history. Some other RUclips Channels went over this, but this is by far the best and most comprehensive explanation of the HOF class. Good job, Chris!
To me, the most egregious absence from Cooperstown is Thurman Munson. I understand that he did not have longevity in the MLB, but death is considerably more finite than injury. There are only 19 catchers in the HOF. Bench is a no-brainer. But when peers like Fisk, Simmons and Carter get in, then Munson should already be in Cooperstown.
100% Agreed!! Was born in 77 but he was a great player and Grandfather told me all about him and his career!! The first older card I had to buy as a very young collector!! Which really isn’t that old! 😂!
@JoeyM I have five close friends from high school (all born in 1964) that all believe this too. So when the day comes, we are all going to Cooperstown for Thurman's Induction Ceremony. We need to honor The Captain, Diana and his family.
Munson 15 should have been in a long time ago!!! Are they waiting for his grandkids, and there grandkids? Come on people!!! Also Elston Howard 32 and Roger Maris 9 and Graig Nettles who shared number 9! Take a look at baseball ⚾ history!!! These legends never cheated no steroids. Yes I am a Yankee fan but these players should be in!!! Congratulations to Buck O'Neal for getting his due!
@Seba Tarth I'm sure Munson did not plan on dying, imagine what he would have accomplished if he had lived! He is still HOF worthy!!! He was rookie of the year and an MVP gold glove 🥎 winner, and the first Captain of the Yankees since a guy named Lou Gehrig!!!!
@Seba Tarth Your point about Schiling is a good one -- he was passed over because of his political stances and some of his public statements. That in itself is ridiculous,. You make a good point about only 2 votes for Kendall -- there is incredible disrespect for catchers.
Still surprises me that Dwight Evans gets overlooked even in this day and age. 67 WAR with 8 Gold Gloves. My only guess was that he played in an era (1980's) where Hits HR and Batting Average (and steals for the Rickey Henderson / Vince Coleman fans) were really the only real stats that seemed to matter back then overall today's stats such as WAR, OBP, Defense etc...
Not sure if anyone else has already commented this or not, but it seems to me that over the course of the last few decades the Hall Of Fame has become the Hall Of Stats, which is fine, obviously statistics are what ultimately define what you did on the field. But the "Fame" element should be taken into consideration as well, there are so many iconic players, guys who were absolutely among the biggest names in the sport for the better part of a decade. They might not have the WAR to back it up, but guys like Dwight Gooden, Darryl Strawberry, Fernando Valenzuela, Don Mattingly, Dale Murphy, Orel Hershiser, Kirk Gibson, and Bo Jackson defined the 1980's. And guys like Roger Maris & Denny McLain had absolutely iconic seasons in the 60's, seasons that are still talked about to this day. And the PED guys, while having tainted stats, were without a doubt essential to the game's growth in the 90's, and were largely responsible for the league's comeback after the strike. Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, A-Rod, & Manny are all cheaters, I will not argue with that. But they're also icons. Like I said, if we're not going to take "Fame" into account, maybe the Hall should come up with a different name.
Chris, I’d say you have a career WAR of 140+ in breaking down HOF candidates! Very well-done as usual and I agree with your predictions at the end. I also loved watching Scotty Rolen play 3rd base, he was a Hoover out there. I’m a Cleveland fan, so I need to comment on Albert Belle. You were spot on, he was elite and one of the best of the 90s. His best seasons were the strike-shortened ‘94 and 95’ seasons. He mashed 36 HRs, 101 RBIs while batting .357 through 106 games in 1994! Rough math based on his 162 game AB average puts those numbers at 62 HRs, 175 RBIs in a full season. And it’s not unthinkable that he would have hit those numbers, because he continued in 1995- becoming still the only 50 HR/50 2B player in MLB history…. In 143 games! He was unbelievable and a joy to watch. I still can’t believe we didn’t win the WS in 1995 with 8 guys in the lineup batting .300+ and mashers like Belle, Thome, Ramirez. It took arguably the greatest rotation in MLB history to stop them.
Great video! Crime Dog should be in the HOF for sure, & Dave Parker was THEE MAN for several years in the late 70s. I like Mattingly, but I think Cobra & Crime Dog deserve to be in.
I'm not a baseball guy, but I enjoyed learning about this process. Makes me want to learn about how Basketball and Football take care of their HOF considerations. Thanks Chris
Mattingly had HOF talent but, missed too many games due to injuries, his overall career numbers fall short in comparison, to most players at his position, Dale Murphy, fell off after his age 32 season
The total numbers matter, that is the whole point of the Hall of Fame. Longevity and health matter, even if a players was great and Mattingly was great.
@@walterdudedonny They matter but are not the end all. What Mattingly did not just the gold gloves He was the best at his position for nearly Decade. LBJ has longevity but he'll never escape MJ?'s shadow cause Jr was just better. Padded stats aren't as relevant as Dominate at a position Or brilliance etc..
Loved the in depth dive in to upcoming Hall of Fame voting. It is a nice add on to you're already fantastic channel. I definitely welcome more videos like this. Thanks for the insight.
Mcgriff will get in. If not for the '94 strike, he'd have 500 HR. Never linked to PEDs, the model of consistency for a decade-plus. And, hell, if Harold Baines is in, Mcgriff certainly should be.
Todd Helton shouldn't be penalized for playing at Coors. Lifetime batting is .316 for 15 yrs, over 2,500 hits & 369 homeruns. 5X All Star, 3 gold gloves & 4 silver sluggers.
@@harrypimentel2247 Trammell had better offense numbers along with the combo. Whittaker falls way short compared to Trammell all around. The only person who really got in on only defense is Ozzie Smith and Whittaker isn't in the same stratosphere as Ozzie Smith defensively.
For a ten year stretch…from 1980 - 1990, only one person in baseball had more home runs and RBI’s than Dale Murphy. That was Mike Schmidt. He fell off hard after that, but to dominate the majors for a decade is pretty impressive.
Always great videos Thanks, do you think it's still good to invest in early rcs & cards for long term, I heard you say you prefer proven players are better investments than modern. Jim brown rc Mantle , Mays,Pete Maravich, Jerry West, Nolan Ryan rc, cards etc. Hall of famers basically . How do you see hobby in next 10 yrs
Mattingly might just be short because of his accomplishments on the field but man, he was the face of baseball back in the 80's and early 90's. Especially if you were a card collector.
I would argue it was more Griffey Jr. However, having been there as a card collecting teen in the 80's, Donny Baseball was most certainly a massive figure in the game as well as collecting.
Mattingly was my absolute favorite growing up and he would have been a Hall of Famer, if his back held up. Unfortunately, he just doesn't have the longevity to be elected to the Hall, in my opinion.
@@zeldafreak1975 Griffey was that guy in the 90s for sure but Mattingly was one of the best players in the 80s and his cards were pretty hot into the early 90s.
Anyone player able to be immortalized in The Simpsons should have strong consideration for the Hall of Fame...or at least the Hall of Fame adjacent...maybe they can get a plaque in the washroom?
Chris ,, Just wanted to give you a big thumbs up , You do a very well thought out and comprehensive run down on this topic and as well as many others , I had decided to thank you well before you ask your viewers for feedback , Keep it up and have a blessed future thru the hard times that we all are facing or least those of us who have to work or hustle for a healthy plate and a roof over our heads !
Great video and analysis! The only thing I would add for the McGriff case is that his stats were elite before steroids became really prevalent. As the numbers skyrocketed his numbers never changed. I believe if you are going to keep players out for steroids, then you should reward players who stayed clean.
I love this kind of stuff for content. I think it would be fun to look back at blind comparisons from prior years. Kind of like they do with the NCAA Tourney where they put stats sides by side and you guess which team should get in. I also think it’d be cool to see position breakdowns of all time with WAR stats. Just beat and interesting content. Love the diversity of this channel. :)
The veterans committee electing Harold Baines to me is why it makes these type of debates fun. By them electing Baines, every single person on the list should go in, because they are all better. My guesses would be mcgriff, murphy, and schilling, and only rolen from the traditional ballot, with beltran at around 50% and getting in in a year or 2.
Chris , spot on, I think you're Crime Dog prediction is correct , not sure about Mattingly, but NY weight is heavy. I love this content TY and Happy Thanksgiving
Love this Chris!! Its totally card related, as you went thru their rookie cards. I only wish you would show all of what are considered their rookies. Let see how close you get....eating my veggies now!
Bonds would have easily made it without the PED's, he was the best player in the game before he started the juice. I hope Mattingly gets in as he was my favorite player, but I don't think he played long enough because of the bad back.
Totally agree with your arguments for the Era committee guys. What gives me pause on any of them getting in is the similarities of their arguments to Will Clark, who has been looked over many times.
You got Mcgriff right. And I would say this is informative for sports cards sales. I agree I think Scott Rolen is going to get in this year, but I also think Todd Helton has an offshot as well, he's been really climbing up the percentage of votes. I do also think the fact there isn't a first elgible player who is a headliner, really helps there chances this year. Next Year you have Adrian Beltre and Joe Mauer. I don't think Mauer gets in first ballot, but Adrian Beltre does, so there are a couple better names next year. The following year is Ichiro. So Helton's best shot I believe is this year. God bless you Chris and Jesus loves you
Also, the WAR stat needs to be updated more imo. It's very hard to determine how good relievers were and barely takes stolen bases and fielding into account, which is very important for catchers and to a lesser degree, shortstops. Players like Andruw Jones, Jim Edmonds and Yadier Molina have terrible WAR for the work they did because of how little WAR values defense. Same with Kenny Lofton and Maury Willis for base stealing. All should be in the hall.
Great analysis. Agree that WAR provides quick likelihood of HOF. My personal take on the baseball Hall of Fame is that if one has to explain in more than 2 to 3 sentences why some player should be a Hall of Famer than they are not.
To me Mcgriff and Mattingly deserve to be in the Hall of Fame . Mattingly a leader on mostly a mediocre Yankees team and had a bad back when the team became competitive again. Don next to Keith Hernandez was one of the best defensive first baseman in the last 50 years. Keith Hernandez should have been on the list too. The best defensive first baseman of all time. A great clutch hitter, a leader on the field and played hard every time he took the field.
I don't know, Fred McGriff does have major controversy around him. I read that he never watched the Tom Emanski baseball training video that he so heartily endorsed in 90s commercials while wearing the highest hat ever. Hahaha! 🙃
Andruw Jones should be in, and he keeps moving closer to induction every year. He’s one of the top three defensive outfielders of all-time, perhaps the best, and he hit well over 400 HRs. I believe he will get in on his 8th or 9th ballot.
What do you think about Bernie Williams. He has 49.6 career bWAR which is on the low side, but he is also one of the greatest postseason performers in history,was the best offensive player on 5 pennant winning and 4 championship winning teams. He was the best position player on a team that is in the discussion for greatest team ever (1998 114-48). Was one of the most clutch players of his era. While playing in the steroid era where offensive league average numbers were inflated across the board, he had a career OPS+ of 125. And believe it or not, from 1995-2003, he was statistically better than Ken Griffey Jr. I think he might be the perfect example of borderline because there is obviously a strong case to be made, yet I wouldn't say his exclusion is necessarily a snubbing. Curious to hear your or anyone else's thoughts on it. Great video, loved the in depth kook at the process and players. Here's hoping my childhood hero Mattingly gets in.
There's room in the hall for short term (4-5 years I would say) where you watch the player and immediately think Hall.of Fame. That's Mattingly if you look at 84-89. Everyone watching thought he was a hall of famer in waiting. And there's room for compilers like Harold Baines, who never screamed Hall of Fame at any point really. But he hung on and kept being a productive player for a long time. That's Hall Worthy. Being the best player in the game for a stretch is Hall worthy too. Mattingly for all intents and purposes played 10 seasons. He averaged around 200 hits a year. There is a minimum years played requirement of ten years. You can't punish players for not getting to 3,000 because they only played for a decade.
I would agree with you about Kent though he was at best a mediocre fielder and he batted around Barry Bonds which gave Kent a boost in RBI’s.Carlos Beltran deserves to be in inspire of the sign stealing scandal. He was a leader and a winner wherever he played and an excellent fielder.
Love this! Im doing a similar series right now, position by position. I kinda don't want to see the mattingly/ murphy types get in (brilliant peak but not longevity), but it does make the path for current guys like votto and goldy a bit clearer. Also have to consider that the replacement level player has gotten better over time, so WAR slides along with it. I agree that WAR is important, but also just a starting point.
I think you did a really sharp and concise analysis of candidates for the year. Only thing I would suggest is beyond the numbers, as you said with Mattingly, some candidates deserve consideration just for their cultural impact. Always surprised Munson doesn’t get more consideration.
Closed captioning has you saying, "Crystal here, baseball card collector investor dealer in that order." Love your videos bud, been subbed for a long g time and really enjoy your content!! Thank you
@@mikec3949 right??? never flashy or loud but always consistent and consummate team player that did everything he could to help his team. also best nickname ever as crime dog
Growing up watching Mattingly Play and Hit he was who I admired most and tried to emulate on the field when I played as a kid! He was a Great Hitter And Awesome 1st Baseman! Always was respectful and respected to game and the fans!! His back injury really hurt his career badly!!! He was never really the same! And one of the few to stand up to the Yankees with their clean shaved and short hair look. Had the stash and the mullet 😂 Yankees Pimp!! Deserves to be in the HOF!!! And also a Great Manager!!!
If he doesn't get in with the committee, I really hope he goes on a great managerial run and wins a couple rings to help him more solidify his case. I think he should be in too, first base defense is just completely ignored by voters. Makes no sense for him or Hernandez to not be in. Sensational defenders, Mattingly was a great hitter and Hernandez was solid. Both won an MVP, multiple all stars. Hernandez has the jewelry. Poor Donnie left a year too soon. If he had been on the team. Even just as agency player or part time DH. If he had a ring I think he would have been in.
My childhood hero.! Was robbed MVP 1986 season. Just heartbreaking to see him afterward struggling with injuries constantly tweaking away from his iconic batting stance to alleviate his back pain. Ofc as soon as he retired Yankees wins WS..crazy
Mattingly and Munson were very similar as fierce competitors, incredibly clutch, leaders , and best in the league at their position, in all aspects ( i have to say american league only because of Bench ) how do you measure heart ? Clutch , Baseball IQ ? Jeter's flip catch is an example of that baseball IQ. Stats are great , but some aspects of game cannot be measured . And should be considered. That's the biggest shame of Rose , because he played with those same attributes and of course has all the numbers. GREAT memories, content and creative 👌 👏
All the players on the era committee are Hall of Famers. If Harold Baines is a Hall of Famer so are the players in the Era Committee voting. I would rather have any one of them on my team before Harold Baines…and as always a great analysis by Chris
As a big fan and collector of Mattingly growing up, hoping you are right. His career was cut short due to back injuries, and he has been quite a good manager for years too, though falling short of a ring.
Hi Chris, Love your Video Here...Question - What about Lou Whitaker - Career War of 75? Why is he not in and do you think he will get into HOF...THanks
Great video Chris! I love deep dives into this as it helps me find players & cards to target for my PC. If I had a Hall ballot I would vote for Manny, ARod, Helton, Wagner, Sheffield, Buehrle, Pettitte, Beltran, A. Jones, & Kent. I also think Rollins has a better case than a lot of people give him credit for. As far as the veterans I think all 8 of those players should be in the hall. My ranking of them are Clemens, Bonds, Schilling, Palmeiro, Murphy, McGriff, Belle, Mattingly. Another point for Dale Murphy, is I believe every multiple MVP winner is in the hall other than him & Juan Gonzalez. I would like to see the hall start to consider more players that reached that elite level like you discussed with Belle & Donny. Just because a guy didn't play 18+ seasons isn't a reason to dismiss their hall case. I also think about this with Johan Santana, who didn't even get 5% his first year.
Tigers players get little respect, Trammell was the best shortstop of the 80s combining defense and offense, yet had to go in through the veterans committee.
Always appreciated, Chris. I think your assessments of each player are dead-on accurate. I personally would not elect Don Mattingly, though I agree with you that he'll probably make it this year anyway. You'd basically elect him based on six years, 1984 through '89, and I simply don't believe they had the impact that they should if you're basing a candidacy on that alone. Sandy Koufax, who was a great player for six years, DID have that kind of impact in those years.
Totally agree, it's amazing that something he's been criticized for that has no legal or regulatory consequences is stopping this man from being elected is absolutely shameful and unAmerican.
I agree, but it’s not the hall that makes the call. It’s up to all these leftist BBWA members that’s hated Schilling ever since he went public with his political views and his disdain for the media.
I dislike him personally but would vote him in as a player. He's a gamer, and brought winning along with him to his teams. I also find it amusing that baseball, an institution that suborned segregation and in fact acted as a national leader with regard to its institutionalization during Jim Crow, cares to moralize over anything at all. I consider the writers to straight-up be members of the Major League apparatus since they control something so important, and those writers should have a sense of institutional memory.
F-Rod won't get in this year, but his performance in the 2002 Playoffs might eventually get his vote percentage into the 60% range. Also he holds the single season MLB saves record, which will help. Those intangibles make him a better candidate than Wagner IMO, especially as Wagner had a mediocre post-season record.
WAR does apply to relievers, they are just overvalued. Probably because of the increased emotional attachment of being in the spotlight when games end.
I'm surprised you went Kent over Andruw Jones (62.7 WAR, 24.2 dWAR). I don't think Jones gets in this year either, but he's arguably the best defensive player of that era, and started young enough to acquire enough counting stats to eventually get him in. 10 straight Gold Gloves, most of which weren't close and 62 WAR is a HOFer in my eyes. Kent is hurt by being hated by the media almost as much as Bonds during his playing days. Hoping we finally see Mattingly and Murphy get in. As a Braves fan, the case I would make for Murphy over McGriff would be essentially the one you made. There was a point in Murphy's career he was arguably the best player in baseball. When ATL traded for McGriff (brodcaster box fire game) he was a really big pickup and needed bat in the lineup, but over shadowed by both Justice and Chipper and at times even Klesko. If I had to only pick 2, I'd go Mattingly and Murphy because of their time at the top, but I believe all 3 eventually deserve to get in. I don't think Belle ever gets in. He was part of that great 95 Indians team we beat with 1-9 batters all having over .300 batting average (with Vizquel and Hershiser), but he was Manny Ramirez defensively before Manny was Manny.
great segment chris. on the Mattingly case, he can only get in if/when Hernandez gets in. excluding the best fielding player ever at 1b is unacceptable, not to mention the "clutch" factor that he carries.
Awesome analysis. I’m torn on Donny Baseball cos he reached greatness that a few have ever reached but didn’t play long enough for HOF consideration. Nevertheless, NY media is quite persuasive so if there is a precedent to be made here, Donny Baseball will sneak into the HOF.
I'm hoping it's McGriff & Murphy. McGriff was super consistent, but maybe not elite and flashy. I had a Murphy super collection as a kid back in 1990 but his stats/impact really tapered in his later years. How would HOF impact the 89 UD reverse negative Murphy?
Actually when you covered K-Rod you missed two key insights . You hit total saves top 5 and ERA. To me what locks him in is the fact he broke the record for most saves in one season 62 .. And if you followed the Angels against the Yankees championship, he pitched a great deal and shut down the Yankees offense to help put the angels as winners ,he pitched a great deal like nothing Ive seen before starter and reliever. He was superhuman in his early years . He did have a domestic dispute issue however it was under the radar and he was young .. He is the single season Save King to add to the other two relevant points . I agree on Rolen and Mattingly mcgriff is possible as well . Great work on this podcast !
Great and accurate analysis, Chris! Crime Dog was robbed of 500 HR by the 1994 strike. Hope he gets in the HOF. He was clean and consistent.
Fred McGriff had 493 HR and 2,490 hits...not too shabby
A real likable player for sure.
who cares if they were clean.
As someone who grew up watching baseball in the '70s I find it astounding how little HOF love Steve Garvey receives. He was the face of a historic franchise, had several MVP's including regular season and post season. He was a fixture in the All-Star game and played 1,207 consecutive games (before Ripken came along he was the modern day Ironman). Certainly one of the greatest players in that decade.
Very much agree. There are many less relevant players already in
I am only familiar with Garvey winning the 1974 NL MVP. I am probably missing something here, but when were his other regular-season and/or post-season MVPs?
Look at every NL all star card of the mid 70s to early 80s, and it’s Garvey on 1st.
@@anthonyjoseph2353 One regular season MVP (1974) two All Star MVPs (1974, 1978)and two NLCS MVP (1978, 1984). Plus he had 4 gold gloves.
@Tom Siino Okay. Thanks for the explanation.
According to Bill James, Dewey Evans was one of the best outfielders in MLB history. Some other RUclips Channels went over this, but this is by far the best and most comprehensive explanation of the HOF class. Good job, Chris!
@Seba Tarth Dewey Evans was really good. He just didn’t get the publicity that Rice and Lynn received.
@@harrypimentel2247 and he played the same position and in the same era as Reggie Jackson.
one of the best arms ever
@@garyburns8040 you thought twice about going from first-to-third on guys like Evans, Clemente, Ichiro and others
Great job! Thanks.
Mattingly, Mcgriff, Clemens
To me, the most egregious absence from Cooperstown is Thurman Munson. I understand that he did not have longevity in the MLB, but death is considerably more finite than injury. There are only 19 catchers in the HOF. Bench is a no-brainer. But when peers like Fisk, Simmons and Carter get in, then Munson should already be in Cooperstown.
100% Agreed!! Was born in 77 but he was a great player and Grandfather told me all about him and his career!! The first older card I had to buy as a very young collector!! Which really isn’t that old! 😂!
@JoeyM I have five close friends from high school (all born in 1964) that all believe this too. So when the day comes, we are all going to Cooperstown for Thurman's Induction Ceremony. We need to honor The Captain, Diana and his family.
Munson 15 should have been in a long time ago!!! Are they waiting for his grandkids, and there grandkids? Come on people!!! Also Elston Howard 32 and Roger Maris 9 and Graig Nettles who shared number 9! Take a look at baseball ⚾ history!!! These legends never cheated no steroids. Yes I am a Yankee fan but these players should be in!!! Congratulations to Buck O'Neal for getting his due!
@Seba Tarth I'm sure Munson did not plan on dying, imagine what he would have accomplished if he had lived! He is still HOF worthy!!! He was rookie of the year and an MVP gold glove 🥎 winner, and the first Captain of the Yankees since a guy named Lou Gehrig!!!!
@Seba Tarth Your point about Schiling is a good one -- he was passed over because of his political stances and some of his public statements. That in itself is ridiculous,. You make a good point about only 2 votes for Kendall -- there is incredible disrespect for catchers.
Chris, awesome video! I’m pulling for Murphy, Mattingly and McGriff
I say Murphey, Mattingly and The Crime Dog should get in.
Y - Crime Dog - ha
Mattingly is a solid manager as well. Especially during his time with the Dodgers. Mattingly also has 9 gold gloves. His defense was outstanding
I too was wondering how his tenure managing the Dodgers may come into consideration (as well as forgetting his time in Miami - ha!)
Back problems really did in Donnie baseball. You wonder where he would have been if he did not run into back issues
@@jays379 He would have been one of the greatest ever. I'm just glad his lunatic ex wife's BS didn't cause his reputation harm.
Still surprises me that Dwight Evans gets overlooked even in this day and age. 67 WAR with 8 Gold Gloves. My only guess was that he played in an era (1980's) where Hits HR and Batting Average (and steals for the Rickey Henderson / Vince Coleman fans) were really the only real stats that seemed to matter back then overall today's stats such as WAR, OBP, Defense etc...
@@sebatarth162 But that mustache!
I am always a sucker for baseball HOF discussions. Great video as a sidebar from your regular stuff.
Not sure if anyone else has already commented this or not, but it seems to me that over the course of the last few decades the Hall Of Fame has become the Hall Of Stats, which is fine, obviously statistics are what ultimately define what you did on the field. But the "Fame" element should be taken into consideration as well, there are so many iconic players, guys who were absolutely among the biggest names in the sport for the better part of a decade. They might not have the WAR to back it up, but guys like Dwight Gooden, Darryl Strawberry, Fernando Valenzuela, Don Mattingly, Dale Murphy, Orel Hershiser, Kirk Gibson, and Bo Jackson defined the 1980's. And guys like Roger Maris & Denny McLain had absolutely iconic seasons in the 60's, seasons that are still talked about to this day. And the PED guys, while having tainted stats, were without a doubt essential to the game's growth in the 90's, and were largely responsible for the league's comeback after the strike. Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, A-Rod, & Manny are all cheaters, I will not argue with that. But they're also icons. Like I said, if we're not going to take "Fame" into account, maybe the Hall should come up with a different name.
I love these videos Chris. Admittedly, I'm a huge 90's/early 2000's baseball fan, so this is right up my alley 🤣
Chris, I’d say you have a career WAR of 140+ in breaking down HOF candidates! Very well-done as usual and I agree with your predictions at the end. I also loved watching Scotty Rolen play 3rd base, he was a Hoover out there.
I’m a Cleveland fan, so I need to comment on Albert Belle. You were spot on, he was elite and one of the best of the 90s. His best seasons were the strike-shortened ‘94 and 95’ seasons. He mashed 36 HRs, 101 RBIs while batting .357 through 106 games in 1994! Rough math based on his 162 game AB average puts those numbers at 62 HRs, 175 RBIs in a full season. And it’s not unthinkable that he would have hit those numbers, because he continued in 1995- becoming still the only 50 HR/50 2B player in MLB history…. In 143 games!
He was unbelievable and a joy to watch. I still can’t believe we didn’t win the WS in 1995 with 8 guys in the lineup batting .300+ and mashers like Belle, Thome, Ramirez. It took arguably the greatest rotation in MLB history to stop them.
Analysis was all over the place. Who would of thought? Great job, really!
Great video!
Crime Dog should be in the HOF for sure, & Dave Parker was THEE MAN for several years in the late 70s. I like Mattingly, but I think Cobra & Crime Dog deserve to be in.
Fred McGriff was always a player. Hope he gets some love this year
I'm not a baseball guy, but I enjoyed learning about this process. Makes me want to learn about how Basketball and Football take care of their HOF considerations. Thanks Chris
In Basketball they multiple your final score by 1.25 if they are white. 😬
Mattingly, Garvey, and Dale Murphy were all iconic players and should be in the HOF..
Mattingly had HOF talent but, missed too many games due to injuries, his overall career numbers fall short in comparison, to most players at his position, Dale Murphy, fell off after his age 32 season
@@ACD1994 That doesn't matter he won 9 gold gloves tons of grand slams And was hands down the best 1st basemen Of the entire 80' s
@@tyrannicaltypomichaeltester Keith Hernandez fans will argue with you about that assessment.
The total numbers matter, that is the whole point of the Hall of Fame. Longevity and health matter, even if a players was great and Mattingly was great.
@@walterdudedonny They matter but are not the end all. What Mattingly did not just the gold gloves He was the best at his position for nearly Decade. LBJ has longevity but he'll never escape MJ?'s shadow cause Jr was just better. Padded stats aren't as relevant as Dominate at a position Or brilliance etc..
That Helton card with him shouldering a Easton Ultralight is classic 80s/90s…👍🏼
Loved the in depth dive in to upcoming Hall of Fame voting. It is a nice add on to you're already fantastic channel. I definitely welcome more videos like this. Thanks for the insight.
Mcgriff will get in. If not for the '94 strike, he'd have 500 HR. Never linked to PEDs, the model of consistency for a decade-plus. And, hell, if Harold Baines is in, Mcgriff certainly should be.
neither one are HoF players
Todd Helton shouldn't be penalized for playing at Coors. Lifetime batting is .316 for 15 yrs, over 2,500 hits & 369 homeruns. 5X All Star, 3 gold gloves & 4 silver sluggers.
Thanks for the thoughtful breakdown of the upcoming voting process and the players involved.
I geek out on this stuff as well!
Lou Whitaker was robbed!!!
Agreed! If Trammell is in then Sweet Lou should be in also.
Totally agree
You got to be wondering what their thinking when a player like Lou Wittaker isn’t in.
@@harrypimentel2247 Trammell had better offense numbers along with the combo. Whittaker falls way short compared to Trammell all around. The only person who really got in on only defense is Ozzie Smith and Whittaker isn't in the same stratosphere as Ozzie Smith defensively.
@@bradfordpalmer2795 Whitaker career WAR 74.9 . Trammell career WAR 70.4 ‘Nuff said.
For a ten year stretch…from 1980 - 1990, only one person in baseball had more home runs and RBI’s than Dale Murphy. That was Mike Schmidt. He fell off hard after that, but to dominate the majors for a decade is pretty impressive.
2 consecutive MVP awards
But a 5 year decline with -220 batting average and no power. If he had retired in ‘88 or ‘89 when he couldn’t play anymore, he probably gets voted in.
Always great videos Thanks, do you think it's still good to invest in early rcs & cards for long term, I heard you say you prefer proven players are better investments than modern.
Jim brown rc
Mantle , Mays,Pete Maravich, Jerry West, Nolan Ryan rc, cards etc. Hall of famers basically .
How do you see hobby in next 10 yrs
Mattingly might just be short because of his accomplishments on the field but man, he was the face of baseball back in the 80's and early 90's. Especially if you were a card collector.
I would argue it was more Griffey Jr. However, having been there as a card collecting teen in the 80's, Donny Baseball was most certainly a massive figure in the game as well as collecting.
Mattingly was my absolute favorite growing up and he would have been a Hall of Famer, if his back held up. Unfortunately, he just doesn't have the longevity to be elected to the Hall, in my opinion.
@@zeldafreak1975 Griffey was that guy in the 90s for sure but Mattingly was one of the best players in the 80s and his cards were pretty hot into the early 90s.
Anyone player able to be immortalized in The Simpsons should have strong consideration for the Hall of Fame...or at least the Hall of Fame adjacent...maybe they can get a plaque in the washroom?
Don won 9 gold gloves And many batting titles so accomplishment check he was also the best 1st basemen Of the entire decade
Great video. I'm a very casual baseball fan and found this helpful.
Similarly, minus PEDs, who are your 3 alltime starting pitchers, Sr. Sewall?
Chris ,, Just wanted to give you a big thumbs up , You do a very well thought out and comprehensive run down on this topic and as well as many others , I had decided to thank you well before you ask your viewers for feedback , Keep it up and have a blessed future thru the hard times that we all are facing or least those of us who have to work or hustle for a healthy plate and a roof over our heads !
Don Mattingly Dale Murphy Steve Garvey & Tony Pena
Spot on. This video is somewhat related because being a “HOF” almost always increases a players card value.
I appreciate this stuff even if it isn’t about cards. Although your card purchasing stories are the best
Great video and analysis!
The only thing I would add for the McGriff case is that his stats were elite before steroids became really prevalent. As the numbers skyrocketed his numbers never changed. I believe if you are going to keep players out for steroids, then you should reward players who stayed clean.
They are not keeping players out for steroids . They are keeping SOME players out for steroids.
I have tons of card and I'm not sure if there worth getting graded?? Where can I make sure
I love this kind of stuff for content. I think it would be fun to look back at blind comparisons from prior years. Kind of like they do with the NCAA Tourney where they put stats sides by side and you guess which team should get in. I also think it’d be cool to see position breakdowns of all time with WAR stats. Just beat and interesting content. Love the diversity of this channel. :)
The veterans committee electing Harold Baines to me is why it makes these type of debates fun. By them electing Baines, every single person on the list should go in, because they are all better. My guesses would be mcgriff, murphy, and schilling, and only rolen from the traditional ballot, with beltran at around 50% and getting in in a year or 2.
Fun video - only thing missing is an analysis on this worthy inductee
430 HRs
CF w 10x gold glove
War > 60
......Andruw Jones
I LOVE THIS! This is a great video idea! Can you please do this for the football hall of fame ?? That would be amazing thank you!
Reggie Wayne should make the HOF. I would vote for Devin Hester too. Arguably, the GOAT returner.
Darrell Revis, Joe Thomas...Robert Kraft could get in for the executives category
I remember playing RBI 92 on Sega Genesis and always choosing Cleveland to play as Albert Belle
Fred McGriff had 493 HR and 2,490 hits...not too shabby
This one was super educational and interesting Chris, Thanks! loved it.
I could listen to you talk historical baseball analysis for days.
I thought the content was awesome. full of knowledge. And I always liked Scott maybe he will go to the hall. Thanks...
Chris , spot on, I think you're Crime Dog prediction is correct , not sure about Mattingly, but NY weight is heavy. I love this content TY and Happy Thanksgiving
Love this Chris!! Its totally card related, as you went thru their rookie cards. I only wish you would show all of what are considered their rookies. Let see how close you get....eating my veggies now!
Quality breakdown, Chris.
Great details and analysis!
Great video Chris! Mattingly and Munson for sure, but I’d vote Bonds regardless. Even with PED you still have to play the game!
Bonds would have easily made it without the PED's, he was the best player in the game before he started the juice. I hope Mattingly gets in as he was my favorite player, but I don't think he played long enough because of the bad back.
Love these videos like this on!! Your analysis was is spot on. You have gave me a few cards to pick up.
Totally agree with your arguments for the Era committee guys. What gives me pause on any of them getting in is the similarities of their arguments to Will Clark, who has been looked over many times.
You got Mcgriff right. And I would say this is informative for sports cards sales.
I agree I think Scott Rolen is going to get in this year, but I also think Todd Helton has an offshot as well, he's been really climbing up the percentage of votes. I do also think the fact there isn't a first elgible player who is a headliner, really helps there chances this year.
Next Year you have Adrian Beltre and Joe Mauer. I don't think Mauer gets in first ballot, but Adrian Beltre does, so there are a couple better names next year. The following year is Ichiro. So Helton's best shot I believe is this year.
God bless you Chris and Jesus loves you
Also, the WAR stat needs to be updated more imo. It's very hard to determine how good relievers were and barely takes stolen bases and fielding into account, which is very important for catchers and to a lesser degree, shortstops. Players like Andruw Jones, Jim Edmonds and Yadier Molina have terrible WAR for the work they did because of how little WAR values defense. Same with Kenny Lofton and Maury Willis for base stealing. All should be in the hall.
Great analysis. Agree that WAR provides quick likelihood of HOF. My personal take on the baseball Hall of Fame is that if one has to explain in more than 2 to 3 sentences why some player should be a Hall of Famer than they are not.
That being said, we have a handful of current Hall of Famers to which a large explanation is needed and in my opinion should not be in the Hall.
To me Mcgriff and Mattingly deserve to be in the Hall of Fame . Mattingly a leader on mostly a mediocre Yankees team and had a bad back when the team became competitive again. Don next to Keith Hernandez was one of the best defensive first baseman in the last 50 years. Keith Hernandez should have been on the list too. The best defensive first baseman of all time. A great clutch hitter, a leader on the field and played hard every time he took the field.
Chris, why do you think 2nd-basemen aren’t typically HR-hitters? Body type?
Good question… not sure
I don't know, Fred McGriff does have major controversy around him. I read that he never watched the Tom Emanski baseball training video that he so heartily endorsed in 90s commercials while wearing the highest hat ever. Hahaha! 🙃
I just want to see McGriff and Mattingly get their day. Bonds and Clemens need to get in as well
The Crime Dog, yes. Mattingly and Clemens, no.
Andruw Jones should be in, and he keeps moving closer to induction every year. He’s one of the top three defensive outfielders of all-time, perhaps the best, and he hit well over 400 HRs. I believe he will get in on his 8th or 9th ballot.
Great analysis! Loaded with information. Thanks Chris!
What do you think about Bernie Williams. He has 49.6 career bWAR which is on the low side, but he is also one of the greatest postseason performers in history,was the best offensive player on 5 pennant winning and 4 championship winning teams. He was the best position player on a team that is in the discussion for greatest team ever (1998 114-48). Was one of the most clutch players of his era. While playing in the steroid era where offensive league average numbers were inflated across the board, he had a career OPS+ of 125. And believe it or not, from 1995-2003, he was statistically better than Ken Griffey Jr.
I think he might be the perfect example of borderline because there is obviously a strong case to be made, yet I wouldn't say his exclusion is necessarily a snubbing.
Curious to hear your or anyone else's thoughts on it. Great video, loved the in depth kook at the process and players. Here's hoping my childhood hero Mattingly gets in.
I always thought Bernie Williams should have gotten more consideration. I think he ultimately falls a little short but you make a good case for him.
@@collectorinvestordealer even as I make the case, I get why people ultimately land on, close but not quite.
Mattingly for his moustache alone is hof worthy
There's room in the hall for short term (4-5 years I would say) where you watch the player and immediately think Hall.of Fame. That's Mattingly if you look at 84-89. Everyone watching thought he was a hall of famer in waiting. And there's room for compilers like Harold Baines, who never screamed Hall of Fame at any point really. But he hung on and kept being a productive player for a long time. That's Hall Worthy. Being the best player in the game for a stretch is Hall worthy too. Mattingly for all intents and purposes played 10 seasons. He averaged around 200 hits a year.
There is a minimum years played requirement of ten years. You can't punish players for not getting to 3,000 because they only played for a decade.
I would agree with you about Kent though he was at best a mediocre fielder and he batted around Barry Bonds which gave Kent a boost in RBI’s.Carlos Beltran deserves to be in inspire of the sign stealing scandal. He was a leader and a winner wherever he played and an excellent fielder.
Love this! Im doing a similar series right now, position by position. I kinda don't want to see the mattingly/ murphy types get in (brilliant peak but not longevity), but it does make the path for current guys like votto and goldy a bit clearer. Also have to consider that the replacement level player has gotten better over time, so WAR slides along with it. I agree that WAR is important, but also just a starting point.
I think you did a really sharp and concise analysis of candidates for the year. Only thing I would suggest is beyond the numbers, as you said with Mattingly, some candidates deserve consideration just for their cultural impact. Always surprised Munson doesn’t get more consideration.
Loved this video hope Fred McGriff gets in!
Holding out hope for McGriff. Favorite player of all time (and think the numbers are there)
Closed captioning has you saying, "Crystal here, baseball card collector investor dealer in that order."
Love your videos bud, been subbed for a long g time and really enjoy your content!! Thank you
Clear as mud.
I'm pulling for Fred McGriff. always one of my favorite players plus super consistent for a long time
I'd jump and do a fist pump if he got in. Should have been in years ago
@@mikec3949 right??? never flashy or loud but always consistent and consummate team player that did everything he could to help his team. also best nickname ever as crime dog
@@DanielleBaum If Baines and Raines are in then Crime Dog has to be in. I feel the same way about Mattingly
An interesting stat for McGriff is he hit 30+ HR for FIVE different teams. What do you have to do to earn a team’s respect? Haha.
@@stevemartinish He's also the only player to lead the AL and NL in homers.
Growing up watching Mattingly Play and Hit he was who I admired most and tried to emulate on the field when I played as a kid! He was a Great Hitter And Awesome 1st Baseman! Always was respectful and respected to game and the fans!! His back injury really hurt his career badly!!! He was never really the same! And one of the few to stand up to the Yankees with their clean shaved and short hair look. Had the stash and the mullet 😂 Yankees Pimp!! Deserves to be in the HOF!!! And also a Great Manager!!!
If he doesn't get in with the committee, I really hope he goes on a great managerial run and wins a couple rings to help him more solidify his case. I think he should be in too, first base defense is just completely ignored by voters. Makes no sense for him or Hernandez to not be in. Sensational defenders, Mattingly was a great hitter and Hernandez was solid. Both won an MVP, multiple all stars. Hernandez has the jewelry. Poor Donnie left a year too soon. If he had been on the team. Even just as agency player or part time DH. If he had a ring I think he would have been in.
My childhood hero.! Was robbed MVP 1986 season. Just heartbreaking to see him afterward struggling with injuries constantly tweaking away from his iconic batting stance to alleviate his back pain. Ofc as soon as he retired Yankees wins WS..crazy
I appreciate this very much. Thank you Chris.
Mattingly and Munson were very similar as fierce competitors, incredibly clutch, leaders , and best in the league at their position, in all aspects ( i have to say american league only because of Bench ) how do you measure heart ? Clutch , Baseball IQ ? Jeter's flip catch is an example of that baseball IQ. Stats are great , but some aspects of game cannot be measured . And should be considered. That's the biggest shame of Rose , because he played with those same attributes and of course has all the numbers. GREAT memories, content and creative 👌 👏
I enjoyed your video and agree with the analysis.
Crime Dog deserves to be In
All the players on the era committee are Hall of Famers. If Harold Baines is a Hall of Famer so are the players in the Era Committee voting. I would rather have any one of them on my team before Harold Baines…and as always a great analysis by Chris
Agree on all picks. Great job. Now watch us both look silly.
As a big fan and collector of Mattingly growing up, hoping you are right. His career was cut short due to back injuries, and he has been quite a good manager for years too, though falling short of a ring.
Fantastic video. I do think that Bonds and Clemons may have a chance.
Hi Chris, Love your Video Here...Question - What about Lou Whitaker - Career War of 75? Why is he not in and do you think he will get into HOF...THanks
Whitaker is a major oversight and I think will eventually get in
Dale Murphy deserves to get in. He had the most total bases for the whole decade of the 1980's.
Among those not mentioned, I would support guys like Dick Allen, Bobby Grich, Buddy Bell, Lou Whittaker, Kenny Lofton, and Andruw Jones for the HOF.
Great video Chris! I love deep dives into this as it helps me find players & cards to target for my PC.
If I had a Hall ballot I would vote for Manny, ARod, Helton, Wagner, Sheffield, Buehrle, Pettitte, Beltran, A. Jones, & Kent. I also think Rollins has a better case than a lot of people give him credit for. As far as the veterans I think all 8 of those players should be in the hall. My ranking of them are Clemens, Bonds, Schilling, Palmeiro, Murphy, McGriff, Belle, Mattingly.
Another point for Dale Murphy, is I believe every multiple MVP winner is in the hall other than him & Juan Gonzalez. I would like to see the hall start to consider more players that reached that elite level like you discussed with Belle & Donny. Just because a guy didn't play 18+ seasons isn't a reason to dismiss their hall case. I also think about this with Johan Santana, who didn't even get 5% his first year.
I just don't understand why Lou Whitaker gets no consideration. 75.1 WAR World series winner and the longest SS 2B combo with him and Trammel.
Whitaker is in my opinion the most obvious deserves-to-be-in player who isn’t at the moment
Tigers players get little respect, Trammell was the best shortstop of the 80s combining defense and offense, yet had to go in through the veterans committee.
It's absolutely ridiculous that McGriff isn't already in there.
He is, now.
Always appreciated, Chris. I think your assessments of each player are dead-on accurate.
I personally would not elect Don Mattingly, though I agree with you that he'll probably make it this year anyway. You'd basically elect him based on six years, 1984 through '89, and I simply don't believe they had the impact that they should if you're basing a candidacy on that alone.
Sandy Koufax, who was a great player for six years, DID have that kind of impact in those years.
I love this content! I hope you make more videos like it!
Curt Schilling not getting into the HoF because of his politics is a joke. The HoF has turned into to great players that the media likes.
Totally agree, it's amazing that something he's been criticized for that has no legal or regulatory consequences is stopping this man from being elected is absolutely shameful and unAmerican.
I agree, but it’s not the hall that makes the call. It’s up to all these leftist BBWA members that’s hated Schilling ever since he went public with his political views and his disdain for the media.
Woke committee.
I dislike him personally but would vote him in as a player. He's a gamer, and brought winning along with him to his teams. I also find it amusing that baseball, an institution that suborned segregation and in fact acted as a national leader with regard to its institutionalization during Jim Crow, cares to moralize over anything at all. I consider the writers to straight-up be members of the Major League apparatus since they control something so important, and those writers should have a sense of institutional memory.
F-Rod won't get in this year, but his performance in the 2002 Playoffs might eventually get his vote percentage into the 60% range. Also he holds the single season MLB saves record, which will help. Those intangibles make him a better candidate than Wagner IMO, especially as Wagner had a mediocre post-season record.
Great video - Enjoy the content
WAR does apply to relievers, they are just overvalued. Probably because of the increased emotional attachment of being in the spotlight when games end.
I'm surprised you went Kent over Andruw Jones (62.7 WAR, 24.2 dWAR). I don't think Jones gets in this year either, but he's arguably the best defensive player of that era, and started young enough to acquire enough counting stats to eventually get him in. 10 straight Gold Gloves, most of which weren't close and 62 WAR is a HOFer in my eyes. Kent is hurt by being hated by the media almost as much as Bonds during his playing days.
Hoping we finally see Mattingly and Murphy get in.
As a Braves fan, the case I would make for Murphy over McGriff would be essentially the one you made. There was a point in Murphy's career he was arguably the best player in baseball. When ATL traded for McGriff (brodcaster box fire game) he was a really big pickup and needed bat in the lineup, but over shadowed by both Justice and Chipper and at times even Klesko. If I had to only pick 2, I'd go Mattingly and Murphy because of their time at the top, but I believe all 3 eventually deserve to get in.
I don't think Belle ever gets in. He was part of that great 95 Indians team we beat with 1-9 batters all having over .300 batting average (with Vizquel and Hershiser), but he was Manny Ramirez defensively before Manny was Manny.
outstanding chris thxs
great segment chris. on the Mattingly case, he can only get in if/when Hernandez gets in. excluding the best fielding player ever at 1b is unacceptable, not to mention the "clutch" factor that he carries.
Dwight Evans should be in The Hall of Fame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For a primary 2B Kent should get in.
Awesome analysis. I’m torn on Donny Baseball cos he reached greatness that a few have ever reached but didn’t play long enough for HOF consideration. Nevertheless, NY media is quite persuasive so if there is a precedent to be made here, Donny Baseball will sneak into the HOF.
I'm hoping it's McGriff & Murphy. McGriff was super consistent, but maybe not elite and flashy. I had a Murphy super collection as a kid back in 1990 but his stats/impact really tapered in his later years. How would HOF impact the 89 UD reverse negative Murphy?
Actually when you covered K-Rod you missed two key insights . You hit total saves top 5 and ERA. To me what locks him in is the fact he broke the record for most saves in one season 62 .. And if you followed the Angels against the Yankees championship, he pitched a great deal and shut down the Yankees offense to help put the angels as winners ,he pitched a great deal like nothing Ive seen before starter and reliever. He was superhuman in his early years .
He did have a domestic dispute issue however it was under the radar and he was young .. He is the single season Save King to add to the other two relevant points . I agree on Rolen and Mattingly mcgriff is possible as well . Great work on this podcast !
Well done