As an old school collector, 1960 forward, i like the idea that there is something for everyone in the hobby. The only drawback for me is the financial exlisivity of box prices. Opening packs was always like christmas morning for me and was a large part of the fun for me. Now i mostly buy singles and some of the fun is prospecting. Miss my nickle packs from my youth. It was a big thrill to find your favorite players and do team sets. Thanks chris, you are the voice of reason in a hype driven industry.
I left the hobby in the ‘80s because of sleazy practices of “dealers” and distributors. When learned boxes were searched before arriving on shelves because the collations were known by some(which explained why I never pulled a Mattingly rookie after opening 100s of pack). I was done. Came back 5 years ago to find it is still sleazy.
I think where grading got out of hand was around the pandemic when people were sending tons of junk wax cards in for grading, hoping for that 10 and trying to flip those cheap cards for an actual profit. Take a 50 cent card, send it in, get a 10, then flip it for $50-100. The most notable example to me from this was the immortal BO card from Score. Grading for vintage is phenomenal. Make sure the card is authentic. Keep people from over grading their raw cards on eBay. Make it so you can collect what you want. Can’t afford a 9 or 10, get a 1 and still own the card you want.
I agree with this and another reason why some call it a scam is the variance in grades. Submitting your card (that should CLEARLY gem) but comes back a 6 is absurd! Especially if it can be proven (by being cracked and resubmitted) that the card is actually a 9 or better.
They also cannot grade the same card the same grade, sometimes not even close (even when serial numbered). I think the lack of consistency drives people crazy. PSA seems to have the most issues with this from market feedback. They are also the largest, so maybe a correlation (more chances to screw up or less control due to the scale).
Scam? It’s an insurance % based number. Only company that does so with explicitly written protections. They would not “charge down” because you are the one who chooses the tier.
LOL.......That's so true. I don't want to do anything over the past 10 years of Ultra Modern. If I like player, I'll take a chance and buy there base Topps RC.
I hate the excessive parallels dilemma. And I agree with the complaint. However, the only thing I will say is that from a pure collecting standpoint, I think it’s a pretty fun era to build runs of players and sets in. Again, if your goal is only collecting and not to make any money whatsoever, I think this holds true.
Chris, thanks for the thought provoking video and, as always, for your insights into the hobby. There are points about all five of your categories here that you did not touch upon that I think are important. 1) I agree with you that having 2 tiers of auto cards is useful for the hobby. But if we’re going to look at it that way as collectors, then we need the manufacturers to consistently be transparent about what we can expect to get in a given product. Tell us what inserts are on-card and what are not. 2) Breakers buy up inordinate amounts of product, making it much harder for collectors to be able to buy it at retail/hobby cost. Topps cosmic chrome is currently a perfect example of this. Many, many collectors got shut out of this high end product, yet breakers using multiple accounts and buyers have large supplies of this. It is all too common these days. 3) I don’t like all the parallels either. But they do serve the beneficial purpose of making new collectors and young collectors feel as though they got a “hit” out of a pack or box. Is it an artificial hit? Sure. But the new collector doesn’t perceive that and it makes them feel excited for the hobby. 4) The same is true for artificial relic cards. I don’t like them either, but they feel like something special to the new collector. I also find it interesting that you don’t mind the hobby differentiating between on-card and sticker autos, but you object to the same kind of differentiating with game-worn relics and other relics. It seems like the same thing to me. 5) Grading is in this era about creating a system that assigns uniform monetary value to a card. The flabbergasting number of cards that get graded every year is not a reflection of average collectors deciding to grade cards, it’s a reflection of speculators and dealers and flippers trying to make money. The practice is not hobby-friendly, it is business-friendly. The only people in the hobby I know who are enamored of grading are those who sell cards at one level or another. I know you believe that a collector can simply buy a non-graded card if they want to avoid graded cards, but for vintage cards, especially pre-war, that is simply not true. The supply of non-graded cards of vintage key HoFers has rapidly dwindled to the point where the only non-graded cards are in poor or suspect (trimmed) condition. Grading also has created a very tough hurdle for new and/or non-wealthy collectors as well-the cost of grading is high, and it represents hobby money spent not on cards, but on a service that is itself a roll of the dice. Anytime i see hobby money not going into cards themselves, that to me seems bad for the hobby.
Great stuff, Chris. The Kenny Picket interlude was brilliant. Not only are there simply too many parallels, too many of them are just ugly and too busy. The "graphics" (or whatever you want to call them) take away from the player on the card. A simple silver prizm or refractor is good enough for me as a parallel. Just reduce the number of those and make those special and then get rid of all the others. Cheers.
I really appreciate this point of view. I will benefit more by focusing on my interests within the hobby and focusing less on those that I don’t care for. Thank you again, you’ve helped me enjoy the hobby even more with this video.
Chris, I agree about grading. As far as, authentication/encapsulation goes. The one complaint I might have is the disparity between values in a 9 or 10 if the population between grades don’t justify it. I understand and agree in a 10x plus factor if there are over 5,000 Pop of 9’s and 95 Pop of 10’s. But some Pops that aren’t as far apart doesn’t justify a 9 having a value of Raw card cost + grading cost. Great video Chris!
That's absurd that a Logoman on a 1 of 1 could just be taken from a patch from the Panini warehouse. I also now hate the word Prizm after hearing all of the Pickett parallels.
I wouldn't call grading a scam, but complaints that point out the inconsistency of results by the big 4 grading companies are valid. When prices were at $5-8 per card(not that long ago, kids...) it wasn't a big deal, but at $20 and up(and $30 during covid) inconsistency gets expensive. PSA recently announced a bit of detail about use of automated processes for grading(pretty much just to put a number to centering currently). AI is where grading is invariably headed, once they work the bugs out. Being a bit of a dreamer, I'm hoping that eventually we can submit older, slabbed cards for reevaluation. I've cracked and resubbed a couple of PSA '6' cards that came back as '9's, but that gets expensive...
Consistency and pricing is my problem with grading. One company grades a 7, crack it, and resend to same company and it comes back a 10. I know a certain company that is infamous for this. This may be the "scam" part people comment about. What's up with that? Other than that, these are all definitely peeves of mine with the hobby. There are a lot of other things, but these few issues are pretty much up there.
A lot of the issues can be summed up with your comment at the 7:30 mark about how people who want a premium card with an on-card auto they can pay more. For over a decade there has been no such thing as premium cards. That is where people miss the point. Back in the late 90's and early 2000's there were brands of cards advertised as premium. They put the word on the packs and boxes. But putting "Premium" on a label requires premium cards to be inside of the box. This requires a higher level of quality of the card (Tiffany, for instance) and a higher level of quality control. When a product is advertised as 'premium' - such a cigars, whiskey, or even collector cards - there is a higher expectation from the consumer and a higher requirement of the manufacturer. This costs the manufacturer more money. How does the manufacturer still make money selling high dollar cards? They remove the 'premium' label and can advertise how they want. Without a premium label the cards are just novelty. And novelty can be pretty much anything - even a $600 box of baseball cards. There are no quality control problems because there are no quality control requirements. So just pump out as many high dollar novelty cards as you want at $600 per box. Problem solved and a big profit margin. There have recently been efforts to put 'Premium' back on packs and boxes and advertisements. Most of these advertisements refer to 'Premium Inserts'.. The companies are careful with the wording. The FTC can wreak havoc on a company that advertises a product as premium when it is not.
Next they are gonna start having just random Autographs on the cards. Gonna say the attached officially licensed auto is not associated with any specific player, game, or event.
Raw card conditions (esp vintage) are extremely subjective when it comes to placing a value on them for resale. A positive aspect of grading, and one of the top reasons I use it is... it will give my family a starting point regarding the current value of that specific card, if they choose to either hold it, or sell it, when I'm dead and gone. It's a third party opinion they can generally trust, instead of asking a potential buyer or dealer whose interest may lie only in getting the best/cheapest price for themselves.
I think the point that’s made with the grading will elude some folks. The comparison of being a pro-grading vs. those that are pro-break, and using it to prove the point that neither is affected by those that are adverse to it is brilliant. And if you look at that $12 Ichiro raw card, you can actually thank the grading craze. That’s a nice card for 12 bones.
The biggest potential for "scamming" in grading, in my opinion, is that in order to keep their largest clients happy they may upgrade those cards a bit. the overall value "given" to these clients by upgrading each card by 1 would be huge. To balance things out they may also downgrade "Average Joe's" submissions.
Completely agree. They don’t want to risk losing business. They won’t care if my small submission upsets me, but they wouldn’t dare upset a major client. I don’t blame them, as business is business, but that’s truly a part of the potential “scam”.
Are the actual submitter’s names on these card while being graded or are the cards being graded without the grader knowing who the card owner is?? Without a transparent open to the public knowledge process by the grading companies, we will never know….
Absolutly great video Chris. Just wanted to put my thoughts down on each point 1.) Yes, please no patches that are not at least player worn. Really, just use game worn and you can wait until later releases for the rookies 2.) Wayyyy too many parallels. No doubt about it. They have successfully made collecting the base card not worth it because the amount of parallels make many of them not worth much. I was hoping when Fanatics bought Topps they would fix this, but they have made it worse. I stick to collecting neutral color cards like Silvers' or Holos or color matches. 3.) Sticker Autos have grown on me, but I agree with your, that if I want to keep it in my PC, I want the on card auto. It means a little more that the player touched the card. Now, my biggest issue is that I have sent in redemptions and received sticker autos in return from Panini. I am sorry, this is just not right. I am interested to see what Fanatics does here, but redemptions suck 4.) Breaker, indifferent like you. When I first got back into the hobby I did some breaks to get cards from favorite teams, then I quickly released that I would just have 1-2 nice cards instead of the 40-50 of base cards I was getting. There is no doubt that they drive up box prices, but the clearly have the support of the hobby. I am baffled that people do random breaks. 5.) I love grading. Grading and opening product are my favorite things to do in the hobby. We could talk for days on the why there is such a big price difference between a 9 and a 10 with such little difference in the quality of the card, but your point is spot on, if you don't like it, don't do it. That is the beauty of the hobby. So many different avenues to pursue. Until next time.
I agree that people can choose to ignore grading and keep their cards raw if they choose. However, when that is their argument and then they use PSA 10 comps on their raw cards I move on to the next seller haha
Good stuff Chris. Pretty much agree with everything you said. I'd add too...grading is key for people like me who do pretty much all my buying online. Would be nearly impossible to buy higher end cards without it.
Great video, been a collector since i was a kid, now nearing 40, it definitely feels like it's not the for the 'common man' anymore, I buy singles mostly and hobby packs occasionally, but buying hobby boxes and buying into breaks is just out of reach, but I do understand the pull.
I like my 70's and 80's its easy to look at them and you don't have the issue as you said as find out what it is and style. Crazy. Just sending in my first submission also. Wish me luck. I actually have the 2001 Ichiro card, still in its original set box.
Grading IS a scam. Totally subjective when it comes to a card. And PSA even has said their graders get "retrained" if they give out too many 10's. And the argument that a certain card wouldn't get a 9 or 10 today if its in an "old" label?? More scrutinized cards in today's grading eyes compared to a few years back maybe? Better technology now compared to a few years back? Grading is for flipping and making $$$$. Not collecting. I need another drink!!!!! Great video as always!!!!!
I agree. Let's be honest here - Grading (for MOST people) is for flipping cards at a premium. As a true collector I could never imagine "encapsulating" my collection for LOL thousands of dollars.
Hey Chris! Great video. I've watched a lot of your stuff, but first time commenting. You made some great points with regards to grading. I'm pro-grading as well, and one of the biggest critiques i hear from anti-grading hobby friends is that grading cards is all about money. Not really. I personally submit tons of cards i know will come back in low grade because 1.) I like knowing they are authentic 2.) I like getting them protected and 3.) I think vintage cards look great slabs (particularly in SGC slabs, but that's just my take). If I grade cards and it happens to enhance the value, cool! That's not my main reason for doing it, though. Glad to hear you mention some of those points, and keep putting out great videos!
My biggest problem with the Grading is that depending on the player/card they charge more. your service doesn't change because it's Babe Ruth vs Matt Stairs, you're grading the card, period.
My understanding is that the upcharge is to cover insuring the shipping on the more valuable card. You'd be pretty mad if your Babe Ruth got lost in the mail.
@@mookie7688 They want you to believe that, but they won't cover jack crap if your shipment gets lost in the mail. I mean, they will, but they will nickel and dime you through the entire process.
Agreed, it leads to more degeneracy. You used to have to go to the card shop and pay to open wax. Now you can sit at home and watch all your money evaporate while sitting in front of your computer.
Grading as created value in the junk wax era cards and creates value for collectors who can buy raw cards at a discounted price because of grading. And if you’re a collector cake shouldn’t matter
I don’t hate grading as like you said to each their own. My biggest problem is nowadays most people think they have to have their cards graded. When looking for a certain card and it’s a low number finding an ungraded one is sometimes very difficult. Another problem I see is when trying to buy a raw card some sellers comparing a raw card to a graded card. Awhile back I was trying to buy a raw Prizm Mark Martin card. The person I was dealing with kept comparing it to a PSA 10 which it clearly wasn’t cause it was still raw. Yet he wanted close to the PSA 10 price. So I walked away from the deal. I’ll just stick to my ungraded cards most of the time and buy more cards that way😂
Regarding relics- the side effect of the generic/fake relics in recent cards has made even the older ones easier to pick up. Attended a card show yesterday and bought 8 for $10 from a vendor from 2003 to 2007. Included Todd Helton, Johan Santana, and a very specific relic from a futures game featuring Francisco "K-Rod" Rodriguez. I think for my own collection I will focus on the relics with some context!
Grading is here to stay but it doesn’t dominate my collecting. I’ve never submitted cards for grading, but tend to buy graded vintage cards to ensure they are authentic and not altered. I try to balance the grade vs appeal. Why pay hundreds more for a 4 if I like the look of the 2.5? Same when it comes to PSA vs SGC for vintage. For modern, I buy mostly raw but did put together a PSA and BGS collection of Mookie and Pedro rookie cards. I also have a selection of graded rookies and other cards I’ve picked up over the years (Tom Brady Bowman RC, Clemens, Ortiz, and Pedroia RCs) but rather buy raw and be able to get more cards for less money.
First! And I’ll state once again, that the elephant in the room is not whether it’s a sticker auto or on-card auto but it’s the auto itself! The last few days have seen several other content producers finally starting to address this. Adley’s first name on both of those cards looks like a warped triangle. His last name has eight letters but all we get is a three loop scribble. What happened to signing your name legibly? I have a Pinnacle inscriptions Barry Sanders auto, that he signed 2053 copies of, and it is stunningly readable. Too many autographs today look like they were signed by a 1st grader.
Meh, this has been an issue for a long time . If you don’t like a dudes signature , don’t collect it and stick to Mariano Rivera or whoever if that’s what you need in your autos
Maybe because they don't teach cursive in schools anymore. Arnold Palmer has one of the best signatures in history, because he was passionate about it.
I'm not a fan of having a bunch of parallels. I remember in 92 with the Beam Team cards in basketball and the 4 sport cards with gold editions. I know thise are inserts but thkse are fine but having 20 variants of the same card is overkill. Love your channel btw and have been a big fan since day 1
My biggest issue with grading is the minuscule difference in quality between a 9-10 compared to the massive value difference. 90% of the time you won’t notice any defects of a PSA 9 with the naked eye and yet it’s worth barely more than a raw card. Leads to people getting screwed out of a lot of money by graders that won’t even tell you what the “defect” in your card is
Try TAG grading…you get an incredibly detailed report explaining EXACTLY why your card received its assigned grade. And pictures are included in the report. And I understand they don’t have the same value as PSA…yet.
I like many of my PC cards graded as well, but if I was focused on raw card collecting, grading would interfere somewhat. It draws cards out of the raw population into the graded population, thereby reducing the selection of raw cards available. You might say - well just crack the card out, but that requires you to pay for the grading premium.
The over-grading of cards has led to a glut of slabbed cards that are easily available for prices comparable to raw cards. Buying cheap slabs and cracking them is completely viable if that's your thing.
There is another downside of card grading, it’s too pricey, and it prices some people out of the hobby. It discourages a lot of people from getting into the hobby deeper because of the. disappointment of the grading you get, you could swear your card is a 10 and then will give you an eight for example it’s kind a dejecting when you spend that money and you get an eight when you thought you were going to get like a 10 so after while you kind of stop submitting and then before you know it, some people stop losing interest
It's not just grading that pices people out of the hobby. Its the raw cards too. Kids can't afford most packs these days. They need to be able to collect. One pack isn't collecting. I was broke as a kid. I had almost no money all the time.
I enjoy graded cards but I wish it was cheaper to grade. I understand there’s no real incentive for specifically PSA to lower their prices at the moment but there are plenty of PC cards I would like to have graded (whatever grade they get assigned). I wish I didn’t have to think long and hard about submitting them simply because of pricing but that’s where we are right now. 🤷♂️
my thoughts mostly reflect yours. I think the biggest one that is only tangentially related to breakers is box prices. box prices are bad for the hobby, kids can't buy anymore, 20 years for now, will the hobby be half of what it is as collectors die and new ones don't join?
I don’t think grading is a scam but for me it’s not worth it unless I’m selling, which I rarely do. I do feel high grades, like 10’s are irrationally high, especially on some modern cards, but again I don’t buy them so doesn’t affect me. I did grade a card recently for my PC and got up charged by PSA. Now I feel like I have to sell it because it’s too valuable to keep, lol.
I don't hate grading. It's a nice service. My complaint about it is that nobody is really honest about what a grade actually means. Like... a grade isn't assigned based on some technical objective threshold... SOME aspects are measurable, like centering (usually)... but other than that, it is subjective and any given card on any given day could get all kinds of different grades based on which individual grader at which individual company is the one grading it, and what kind of mood they're in. PSA 10 doesn't mean "this card is technically perfect" it means "the person grading this card on this date didn't notice anything wrong with it, and in his/her opinion, it looks good enough for a 10"
My thoughts on grading are that it adds value and authenticity, on the upside. The downside is that it gives PSA too much power, and corruption has caused me not to trust these companies.
Grading can be very frustrating. The difference between a 9 and a 10 can be imperceptible to the eye (especially when it is returned in thick plastic), which leads people to say it is arbitrary. Additionally, it is done by humans and can be inconsistent. I graded 25 cards in bulk and 2 came back PSA 10, 11x PSA 9, 10x PSA 8, and the lowest was PSA 7. I then sent in the "high value" card from that set which was stored exactly like the other 25 cards. I even had multiple copies and picked the best one to grade. I paid for premium grading, and it came back PSA 6. Needless to say, that was very frustrating. It makes me wonder; do I get worse grades because I am not a high-volume dealer? I also spent a lot of money for something would have been worth more raw. You can find videos of re-grading resulting in changes to grades or the video you did going from PSA to SGC. I like my PC cards in a slab, but generally, my grading experience can be summed up as expensive and disappointing.
The Ichiro example - 2001 Topps packs are usually bricks and when seperated there is often substantial damage/paper loss. I would think the population of 10's would be quite low which would lead to the higher premium for a 10. Just my thoughts
There are easy solves to these complaints: free enterprise means you get to choose whether to participate in all 5 of these “issues”. I get a bit tired of getting off my lawn and other mindsets. We can all choose to spend our money in the hobby how we want. Your checkbook is more powerful than your voice.
@@blueodum this is true only after the masses have allowed their checkbook to do the talking. Market dominance is earned in this case. Until someone comes up with something better. Which is inevitable. I can only assume you are talking about PSA. Why do they have market dominance? Because, whether detractors like it or not, they have had millions of cards willingly paid for to be graded. There is no luck in that, they didn’t win a lottery to become the dominant player. They earned their position. And before anyone calls me a PSA fanboy feel free to reflect on the rationality. Or read up on Friedman or Keynes.
I buy only graded online because I don’t want to trust the raw card to be the condition it appears from the photos in the listing. With it being graded, I’m assured of condition
With grading, is it REALLY a non-biased grade being given when you have to pay different amounts for different grading outcomes? What about when corporate consolidation makes Fanatics + PSA + PWCC the same company? Something like that starts looking like a Clarence Thomas level of conflict of interests.. 💲💲
I dismissed grading as just a money grab back in early 2000s. Eventually i joined the party and its the only way I could afford to expand my collection. Although i give it the eye roll everyday i still submit.
I'm not to picky about the sticker auto's. Ya I would probably prefer the on-card auto but what is the difference between a sticker auto and a patch the from the player's uniform on a card? The player didn't stick the patch on the card the card company did. I don't think grading is a scam but I do think it is inconsistent and modern PSA 10's seem overrated to me versus a PSA 9 that is nicely centered.
My main complaint with grading is the upcharge they hit you with depending on the raw value. A card is a card in my opinion. It would cost me tens of thousands to grade my entire collection. Also, all the shady stuff that goes down. Way too many 10s are given that are clearly not a 10. I hope electronic/AI grading really takes off.
Here’s a hot take . Psa 10s not quite bringing the fire like they use to. Feels like it maybe doubles a cards value as opposed to 10X. This is of course a generality and maybe it’s more indicative of the card market in general softening than psa .
I find that I'm much more likely to get value back out of buying a team in a group break than I am buying a box. For the price of a hobby box, you can often get 3-5 teams in a multi box break of the same product. As a collector of Yankee cards, I can just spend $100 on a 6 box break and in all likelihood will end up with something I want for the PC. I don't enjoy buying singles online, and there's no LCS by me to go and look through boxes to find singles for my PC. Opening packs is gambling no matter how you slice it, you just have more control with group breaks. You can find more bargain buys, get to pick what teams you want cards of. There are scams, certainly, but it is no more risky than doing any purchase online. Scammers sell "sealed" packs and boxes, do group breaks and sell singles. Every facet of the hobby has scammers unfortunately. Like with singles and sealed wax, there are established breakers with unblemished records of honest dealing. As long as you do the homework, you can avoid scammers.
Really ? Cost of new product isn't a problem for anyone, or not worth talking about ? I guess artificial scarcity / numbered cards that when added up together, has a higher print run than 1988 Donruss, isn't a concern either.
If I owned a card company , I would probably use sticker autos exclusively. It’s just so much less overhead in your production. I know collectors prefer on card but what can you do .
My issue with grading is that PSA 10 is valued way higher than SGC or BGS Gem Mint grades. The Ichiro example you showed, a PSA 10 goes for $1100-1400,an SGC 10 goes for half that. I can understand the low tier companies like HGA, TAG,etc only going for half or less but PSA,SGC, and BGS have all been around since the 90s, all three although each having issues are all well respected within the hobby for their grading, but for PSA to sell for double of SGC or BGS is crazy! 20-30% okay I get, but double! I just don't get it.
Just a quick clarification. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think they send them stickers and then the athlete sends them back. I think someone from company has to see him sign it so they can say they're authenticating it.
Pretty sure they just send them the sheet to sign at their leisure. I don't trust when it says an employee witnesses players sign millions of cards lol. There's likely something in their contract with the card company that says they can get into a lot of trouble if they can prove the autos were signed by someone else.
Let's be honest here - Grading (for MOST people) is for flipping cards at a premium. As a true collector I could never imagine "encapsulating" my collection for LOL thousands of dollars.
Except as a perfectionist/slight OCD, it's really intriguing to think my collection is all encapsulated. But it's way too expensive, even if I know I'd increase the value a lot.
Rarity, condition, and historical significance make a card more collectable. Grading preserves the key feature of condition forever and places the card in an entirely new status, "graded". There are raw cards and there are graded cards. Two different hobbies. The difference between golf and pollo is similiar.
Really bad analogy, polo is a team sport played on a field; golf is individual and played sequentially on 18 different fields. You can liken polo to lacrosse on horses maybe.
My add-on to the parallels complaint - i wish the card would at least say which parallel it is. Perfect example of this is stadium club baseball sepia vs. black and white - it's really hard to tell the difference sometimes between them.
I keep saying that there should be a small qr code for scanning in that exact card into the various collection tracking sites. Imagine how much faster it would be!
@@Brett_S_420 yeah that would be super helpful. although i will say, i bought a card for a rainbow off ebay recently that he had listed as the /99 parallel and it was actually /85 so the confusion worked out in my favor... but my point still stands lol
Nobody is determining the x100 except supply and demand. As more raw are graded increasing the supply, the price will drop. I’ve got no problem with grade prices. I do not however want to send my PC Cards for grading. In fact if I get a modern card in an 8 for my pc I’ll usually crack it and put it in a new, sleeved one touch to match the rest. I’ve even cracked a couple 9s. I couldn’t do it to a ten though… For vintage I can totally see getting all graded to ensure authenticity.
Grading in my complaint! I have graded a few times, and typically gem 70% of the cards I expect a 10 on. My last order had 50 cards, and 85% 9's. I knew the grader was rough, and told my buyers that they could probably crack and resub with better grades. 2 months later, I see literally see 9 different cards I sold as a PSA 9 became a 10. Exact same cards, but higher grades depending on the day and grader. The lack of consistency is maddening! I literally have to crack and resub Mutiple times to be profitable. Feels like a scam even if its legit b/c of the subjectivity.
My biggest gripe is these card companies charging more and more for increasingly watered down product, highlighted by all of these points you listed…players signing exclusive deals and not being included in certain sets (cough, panini, cough) yet those companies still increasing their prices every year is absolutely asinine and has torpedoed the hobby imo
Pack odds... They are not accurate. One can watch an adequate sample size of box breaks, add the numbers up, and prove that published pack odd are not accurate. I did this a few years ago for Allen and Ginter, and found that pack odds were overstated relative to the cards that come out of the boxes.
I’m a fan of grading but I think the 10 is overvalued compared to the 9 on most cards. A 1992 Jeff Kent in a psa 9 sells for $5 but a 10 sells for $170. Some of the multipliers are insane. Also, ultra modern many times a raw copy will sell for the same or more than a 9. I recently bought some Victor W cards at a garage sale, and the raw prices sell just a little more than PSA 9 prices, although the upside of the 10 is a 2x upside it’s not worth me sending in to grade when I can sell raw and know that I will make a good profit on it.
grading: the fact someone can send in..get an 8. Crack it resubmit and get a 10? Also people buying 8s and 9s, cracking them and selling raw because they are worth more
Chris, How does PSA justify upcharging for high grade cards? It don't cost the comany more money to grade a card a "10" versus a "1". Why should grading a $5000 "10" cost more than grading a $50 "1"? The company is providing the same exact service to a card, regardless of grade, right?In that aspect I think grading (PSA) is kind of a scam. What am I missing? Thanks.
Every time I send to PSA i hope for an upcharge. lack of consistency with grades is my only issue. you dont have to use PSA . there are graders that dont charge upcharge. you can also buy a steak at cheap restaurant for 10 bucks but costs 100 at fancy place.
One reason I’ve heard a few times is the cost of insurance for cards that are more valuable. However, I don’t think it’s fair to say that alone is responsible for the upcharge. Grading companies likely see the valued added as something they should get a piece of, rightfully so or not, and use it to increase their revenue.
I agree with you. For regular cards they would spend the same amount of time to grade a card a 10 or a 5. That is true. The part you are missing is that PSA insures the card. If they make a mistake with the grade (graded a fake card or over graded it) they will buy the card back from you. So that upcharge is the insurance cost. Again, I agree with you that it’s ridiculous- yes, just take your time grading it properly and then you won’t over grade or grade fake card. I’m just explaining the process to you and what the upcharge is actually for - not time, but insurance.
@@jeremypaul6454oh for sure! It is 100% a way to increase revenue. And if upcharges were a little bit, say $10 or so it would suck, but people would be able to live with it. Some of these are ridiculous!
I've been guessing that it was only a matter of time that all these short print parallels would drop huge in value. As the cards get older less and less people will know or care if they exist and the masses will just become parallel commons
For most non superstars this is true, but it’s tough to argue that a low serial number card isn’t rare (even if there’s 10 other low serial numbered cards of the player in the same set)
Good Vid! How about instead of just Silly Parallele different colors a Different Picture of the player with each color a different picture and pose. At least it would make that version stand out more. How hard would that be for these card companies charging so much for these new boxes of cards?
I absolutely hate PSA's upcharge policy. They are essentially cardnapping your property and will send you an email asking for a ransom. The prices should be set, I don't know how this practice is legal. Beckett isn't any better either. Their pricing for expensive cards is also predatory. I also feel like they favor influencers and big content creators when it comes to giving out black labels. End of rant.
"I know we took your money to do this, but because you have something desirable, we'll need more cash to give it back". Someone else said "it's not a scam". Maybe they're right, it's more Ponzi scheme than traditional scam, lol.
When every card is special in packs, none are special
The Kenny Pickett parallel example was perfection.
Chefs kiss!
OMG the parallels part was one of the best thing I have watched.
As an old school collector, 1960 forward, i like the idea that there is something for everyone in the hobby. The only drawback for me is the financial exlisivity of box prices. Opening packs was always like christmas morning for me and was a large part of the fun for me. Now i mostly buy singles and some of the fun is prospecting. Miss my nickle packs from my youth. It was a big thrill to find your favorite players and do team sets. Thanks chris, you are the voice of reason in a hype driven industry.
I left the hobby in the ‘80s because of sleazy practices of “dealers” and distributors. When learned boxes were searched before arriving on shelves because the collations were known by some(which explained why I never pulled a Mattingly rookie after opening 100s of pack). I was done. Came back 5 years ago to find it is still sleazy.
I think where grading got out of hand was around the pandemic when people were sending tons of junk wax cards in for grading, hoping for that 10 and trying to flip those cheap cards for an actual profit. Take a 50 cent card, send it in, get a 10, then flip it for $50-100. The most notable example to me from this was the immortal BO card from Score. Grading for vintage is phenomenal. Make sure the card is authentic. Keep people from over grading their raw cards on eBay. Make it so you can collect what you want. Can’t afford a 9 or 10, get a 1 and still own the card you want.
The only thing about grading that’s a scam to me is the fact that PSA will up charge when applicable, but they won’t down charge when applicable.
I agree with this and another reason why some call it a scam is the variance in grades. Submitting your card (that should CLEARLY gem) but comes back a 6 is absurd! Especially if it can be proven (by being cracked and resubmitted) that the card is actually a 9 or better.
Down charge ? lol wut
They also cannot grade the same card the same grade, sometimes not even close (even when serial numbered). I think the lack of consistency drives people crazy. PSA seems to have the most issues with this from market feedback. They are also the largest, so maybe a correlation (more chances to screw up or less control due to the scale).
Scam? It’s an insurance % based number. Only company that does so with explicitly written protections.
They would not “charge down” because you are the one who chooses the tier.
100% but what’s wrong is they should charge 20 upfront for any card and only yo charge when applicable then they would never over charge
Pink prizm, red and yellow prizm, white sparkle prizm, shrimp soup prizm, shrimp salad prizm…
Don’t forget shit Prizms. Panini is excellent for those. And if ya good one, the quality will suck.😂
LOL.......That's so true. I don't want to do anything over the past 10 years of Ultra Modern. If I like player, I'll take a chance and buy there base Topps RC.
Trash prizm.
That Envelope Prism sounds hot
Thank you, Bubba
I hate the excessive parallels dilemma. And I agree with the complaint. However, the only thing I will say is that from a pure collecting standpoint, I think it’s a pretty fun era to build runs of players and sets in. Again, if your goal is only collecting and not to make any money whatsoever, I think this holds true.
Chris, thanks for the thought provoking video and, as always, for your insights into the hobby. There are points about all five of your categories here that you did not touch upon that I think are important.
1) I agree with you that having 2 tiers of auto cards is useful for the hobby. But if we’re going to look at it that way as collectors, then we need the manufacturers to consistently be transparent about what we can expect to get in a given product. Tell us what inserts are on-card and what are not.
2) Breakers buy up inordinate amounts of product, making it much harder for collectors to be able to buy it at retail/hobby cost. Topps cosmic chrome is currently a perfect example of this. Many, many collectors got shut out of this high end product, yet breakers using multiple accounts and buyers have large supplies of this. It is all too common these days.
3) I don’t like all the parallels either. But they do serve the beneficial purpose of making new collectors and young collectors feel as though they got a “hit” out of a pack or box. Is it an artificial hit? Sure. But the new collector doesn’t perceive that and it makes them feel excited for the hobby.
4) The same is true for artificial relic cards. I don’t like them either, but they feel like something special to the new collector. I also find it interesting that you don’t mind the hobby differentiating between on-card and sticker autos, but you object to the same kind of differentiating with game-worn relics and other relics. It seems like the same thing to me.
5) Grading is in this era about creating a system that assigns uniform monetary value to a card. The flabbergasting number of cards that get graded every year is not a reflection of average collectors deciding to grade cards, it’s a reflection of speculators and dealers and flippers trying to make money. The practice is not hobby-friendly, it is business-friendly. The only people in the hobby I know who are enamored of grading are those who sell cards at one level or another. I know you believe that a collector can simply buy a non-graded card if they want to avoid graded cards, but for vintage cards, especially pre-war, that is simply not true. The supply of non-graded cards of vintage key HoFers has rapidly dwindled to the point where the only non-graded cards are in poor or suspect (trimmed) condition. Grading also has created a very tough hurdle for new and/or non-wealthy collectors as well-the cost of grading is high, and it represents hobby money spent not on cards, but on a service that is itself a roll of the dice. Anytime i see hobby money not going into cards themselves, that to me seems bad for the hobby.
Great stuff, Chris. The Kenny Picket interlude was brilliant. Not only are there simply too many parallels, too many of them are just ugly and too busy. The "graphics" (or whatever you want to call them) take away from the player on the card. A simple silver prizm or refractor is good enough for me as a parallel. Just reduce the number of those and make those special and then get rid of all the others. Cheers.
I almost started dancing to the Kenny Picket Prizms,.
I really appreciate this point of view. I will benefit more by focusing on my interests within the hobby and focusing less on those that I don’t care for. Thank you again, you’ve helped me enjoy the hobby even more with this video.
The problem with grading is it's so inconsistent and they give wrong grades that's the problem
Chris, I agree about grading. As far as, authentication/encapsulation goes. The one complaint I might have is the disparity between values in a 9 or 10 if the population between grades don’t justify it. I understand and agree in a 10x plus factor if there are over 5,000 Pop of 9’s and 95 Pop of 10’s. But some Pops that aren’t as far apart doesn’t justify a 9 having a value of Raw card cost + grading cost. Great video Chris!
In some cases a PSA 9 is worth much less than the raw version of the card even if the raw version has obvious flaws. I've seen that multiple times.
I just use this as an opportunity to buy 9s for my collection and save a lot of money.
That's absurd that a Logoman on a 1 of 1 could just be taken from a patch from the Panini warehouse. I also now hate the word Prizm after hearing all of the Pickett parallels.
You should be hobby president
I wouldn't call grading a scam, but complaints that point out the inconsistency of results by the big 4 grading companies are valid. When prices were at $5-8 per card(not that long ago, kids...) it wasn't a big deal, but at $20 and up(and $30 during covid) inconsistency gets expensive. PSA recently announced a bit of detail about use of automated processes for grading(pretty much just to put a number to centering currently). AI is where grading is invariably headed, once they work the bugs out. Being a bit of a dreamer, I'm hoping that eventually we can submit older, slabbed cards for reevaluation. I've cracked and resubbed a couple of PSA '6' cards that came back as '9's, but that gets expensive...
Consistency and pricing is my problem with grading. One company grades a 7, crack it, and resend to same company and it comes back a 10. I know a certain company that is infamous for this. This may be the "scam" part people comment about. What's up with that? Other than that, these are all definitely peeves of mine with the hobby. There are a lot of other things, but these few issues are pretty much up there.
Love on cards autos!
A lot of the issues can be summed up with your comment at the 7:30 mark about how people who want a premium card with an on-card auto they can pay more. For over a decade there has been no such thing as premium cards. That is where people miss the point. Back in the late 90's and early 2000's there were brands of cards advertised as premium. They put the word on the packs and boxes. But putting "Premium" on a label requires premium cards to be inside of the box. This requires a higher level of quality of the card (Tiffany, for instance) and a higher level of quality control. When a product is advertised as 'premium' - such a cigars, whiskey, or even collector cards - there is a higher expectation from the consumer and a higher requirement of the manufacturer. This costs the manufacturer more money.
How does the manufacturer still make money selling high dollar cards? They remove the 'premium' label and can advertise how they want. Without a premium label the cards are just novelty. And novelty can be pretty much anything - even a $600 box of baseball cards. There are no quality control problems because there are no quality control requirements. So just pump out as many high dollar novelty cards as you want at $600 per box. Problem solved and a big profit margin.
There have recently been efforts to put 'Premium' back on packs and boxes and advertisements. Most of these advertisements refer to 'Premium Inserts'.. The companies are careful with the wording. The FTC can wreak havoc on a company that advertises a product as premium when it is not.
Next they are gonna start having just random Autographs on the cards. Gonna say the attached officially licensed auto is not associated with any specific player, game, or event.
Sooooooooo soooo soooooo many PRIZIMS!!!!!!
What pisses me off is card prices have TANKED, yet hobby boxes are still the same high price.
Raw card conditions (esp vintage) are extremely subjective when it comes to placing a value on them for resale. A positive aspect of grading, and one of the top reasons I use it is... it will give my family a starting point regarding the current value of that specific card, if they choose to either hold it, or sell it, when I'm dead and gone. It's a third party opinion they can generally trust, instead of asking a potential buyer or dealer whose interest may lie only in getting the best/cheapest price for themselves.
I think the point that’s made with the grading will elude some folks. The comparison of being a pro-grading vs. those that are pro-break, and using it to prove the point that neither is affected by those that are adverse to it is brilliant. And if you look at that $12 Ichiro raw card, you can actually thank the grading craze. That’s a nice card for 12 bones.
The biggest potential for "scamming" in grading, in my opinion, is that in order to keep their largest clients happy they may upgrade those cards a bit. the overall value "given" to these clients by upgrading each card by 1 would be huge. To balance things out they may also downgrade "Average Joe's" submissions.
Completely agree. They don’t want to risk losing business. They won’t care if my small submission upsets me, but they wouldn’t dare upset a major client. I don’t blame them, as business is business, but that’s truly a part of the potential “scam”.
Are the actual submitter’s names on these card while being graded or are the cards being graded without the grader knowing who the card owner is?? Without a transparent open to the public knowledge
process by the grading companies, we will never know….
Absolutly great video Chris. Just wanted to put my thoughts down on each point
1.) Yes, please no patches that are not at least player worn. Really, just use game worn and you can wait until later releases for the rookies
2.) Wayyyy too many parallels. No doubt about it. They have successfully made collecting the base card not worth it because the amount of parallels make many of them not worth much. I was hoping when Fanatics bought Topps they would fix this, but they have made it worse. I stick to collecting neutral color cards like Silvers' or Holos or color matches.
3.) Sticker Autos have grown on me, but I agree with your, that if I want to keep it in my PC, I want the on card auto. It means a little more that the player touched the card. Now, my biggest issue is that I have sent in redemptions and received sticker autos in return from Panini. I am sorry, this is just not right. I am interested to see what Fanatics does here, but redemptions suck
4.) Breaker, indifferent like you. When I first got back into the hobby I did some breaks to get cards from favorite teams, then I quickly released that I would just have 1-2 nice cards instead of the 40-50 of base cards I was getting. There is no doubt that they drive up box prices, but the clearly have the support of the hobby. I am baffled that people do random breaks.
5.) I love grading. Grading and opening product are my favorite things to do in the hobby. We could talk for days on the why there is such a big price difference between a 9 and a 10 with such little difference in the quality of the card, but your point is spot on, if you don't like it, don't do it. That is the beauty of the hobby. So many different avenues to pursue.
Until next time.
I agree that people can choose to ignore grading and keep their cards raw if they choose. However, when that is their argument and then they use PSA 10 comps on their raw cards I move on to the next seller haha
Well done. The first few points are a good reminder to me why I want nothing to do with modern cards.
Good stuff Chris. Pretty much agree with everything you said. I'd add too...grading is key for people like me who do pretty much all my buying online. Would be nearly impossible to buy higher end cards without it.
Great video, been a collector since i was a kid, now nearing 40, it definitely feels like it's not the for the 'common man' anymore, I buy singles mostly and hobby packs occasionally, but buying hobby boxes and buying into breaks is just out of reach, but I do understand the pull.
I like my 70's and 80's its easy to look at them and you don't have the issue as you said as find out what it is and style. Crazy. Just sending in my first submission also. Wish me luck. I actually have the 2001 Ichiro card, still in its original set box.
Grading IS a scam. Totally subjective when it comes to a card. And PSA even has said their graders get "retrained" if they give out too many 10's. And the argument that a certain card wouldn't get a 9 or 10 today if its in an "old" label?? More scrutinized cards in today's grading eyes compared to a few years back maybe? Better technology now compared to a few years back? Grading is for flipping and making $$$$. Not collecting. I need another drink!!!!! Great video as always!!!!!
I agree. Let's be honest here - Grading (for MOST people) is for flipping cards at a premium. As a true collector I could never imagine "encapsulating" my collection for LOL thousands of dollars.
I'll eat my vegetables, as long as they are graded first.... I like my broccoli PSA8.5 or higher....
It depends on the type parallel. My Kirkland super organic is way more expensive than my Kroger's.
But what about my organic, old school, dirt-covered cauliflower?
Never graded, never washed. Puts hair on your chest!
Hey Chris! Great video. I've watched a lot of your stuff, but first time commenting. You made some great points with regards to grading. I'm pro-grading as well, and one of the biggest critiques i hear from anti-grading hobby friends is that grading cards is all about money. Not really. I personally submit tons of cards i know will come back in low grade because 1.) I like knowing they are authentic 2.) I like getting them protected and 3.) I think vintage cards look great slabs (particularly in SGC slabs, but that's just my take). If I grade cards and it happens to enhance the value, cool! That's not my main reason for doing it, though. Glad to hear you mention some of those points, and keep putting out great videos!
I agree with breaking, I stopped buying wax around 2020 and have an amazing collection of singles focused only on the cards I like.
The thing that really gets me about sticker autos is that they even put them on Big cards, like one of one superfractors.
Yep, and 'High End' products as well. If I ever see a sticker auto on Triple Threads, Museum Collection, Five Star etc... THAT really grinds my gears.
My biggest problem with the Grading is that depending on the player/card they charge more. your service doesn't change because it's Babe Ruth vs Matt Stairs, you're grading the card, period.
I was under the impression they up charge based on raw value?
@@JohnB-mo4kq Either way; their business is Grading cards, what's it matter the value of the RAW card?
@@LT-wi3io I agree man.
My understanding is that the upcharge is to cover insuring the shipping on the more valuable card. You'd be pretty mad if your Babe Ruth got lost in the mail.
@@mookie7688 They want you to believe that, but they won't cover jack crap if your shipment gets lost in the mail. I mean, they will, but they will nickel and dime you through the entire process.
Great thoughts video Chris and I agree with most everything mentioned.👍🔥❤️👌💪
To me, the biggest issue of these is, by far, breakers. It feeds off of gambling addiction. Thats not refutable. It drives up prices, even on retail.
Agreed, it leads to more degeneracy. You used to have to go to the card shop and pay to open wax. Now you can sit at home and watch all your money evaporate while sitting in front of your computer.
Grading as created value in the junk wax era cards and creates value for collectors who can buy raw cards at a discounted price because of grading. And if you’re a collector cake shouldn’t matter
I don’t hate grading as like you said to each their own. My biggest problem is nowadays most people think they have to have their cards graded. When looking for a certain card and it’s a low number finding an ungraded one is sometimes very difficult. Another problem I see is when trying to buy a raw card some sellers comparing a raw card to a graded card. Awhile back I was trying to buy a raw Prizm Mark Martin card. The person I was dealing with kept comparing it to a PSA 10 which it clearly wasn’t cause it was still raw. Yet he wanted close to the PSA 10 price. So I walked away from the deal. I’ll just stick to my ungraded cards most of the time and buy more cards that way😂
Regarding relics- the side effect of the generic/fake relics in recent cards has made even the older ones easier to pick up. Attended a card show yesterday and bought 8 for $10 from a vendor from 2003 to 2007. Included Todd Helton, Johan Santana, and a very specific relic from a futures game featuring Francisco "K-Rod" Rodriguez. I think for my own collection I will focus on the relics with some context!
Grading is here to stay but it doesn’t dominate my collecting. I’ve never submitted cards for grading, but tend to buy graded vintage cards to ensure they are authentic and not altered. I try to balance the grade vs appeal. Why pay hundreds more for a 4 if I like the look of the 2.5? Same when it comes to PSA vs SGC for vintage. For modern, I buy mostly raw but did put together a PSA and BGS collection of Mookie and Pedro rookie cards. I also have a selection of graded rookies and other cards I’ve picked up over the years (Tom Brady Bowman RC, Clemens, Ortiz, and Pedroia RCs) but rather buy raw and be able to get more cards for less money.
Thank you Chris, this is a fun topic, something that can be revisited often.
This is why I like Leaf
First! And I’ll state once again, that the elephant in the room is not whether it’s a sticker auto or on-card auto but it’s the auto itself! The last few days have seen several other content producers finally starting to address this. Adley’s first name on both of those cards looks like a warped triangle. His last name has eight letters but all we get is a three loop scribble. What happened to signing your name legibly? I have a Pinnacle inscriptions Barry Sanders auto, that he signed 2053 copies of, and it is stunningly readable. Too many autographs today look like they were signed by a 1st grader.
Just like my JC initialed Jalen Carter card. Initials is not a signature. I totally agree with you.
Some of the most beautiful autographs are from pre-pandemic. Players like Paul Oneill for example took pride in signing a sweet looking signature.
Meh, this has been an issue for a long time . If you don’t like a dudes signature , don’t collect it and stick to Mariano Rivera or whoever if that’s what you need in your autos
Maybe because they don't teach cursive in schools anymore. Arnold Palmer has one of the best signatures in history, because he was passionate about it.
I love btreakers. They help the singles prices become lower due to more availability to cards that would normally be left in sealed product.
I'm not a fan of having a bunch of parallels. I remember in 92 with the Beam Team cards in basketball and the 4 sport cards with gold editions. I know thise are inserts but thkse are fine but having 20 variants of the same card is overkill. Love your channel btw and have been a big fan since day 1
Always the most level headed takes
I agree with you 💯 %. 👍🏻
Do you feel the grading companies control pop counts? Should they be required to be more specific on why a card received the grade it did?
My biggest issue with grading is the minuscule difference in quality between a 9-10 compared to the massive value difference. 90% of the time you won’t notice any defects of a PSA 9 with the naked eye and yet it’s worth barely more than a raw card. Leads to people getting screwed out of a lot of money by graders that won’t even tell you what the “defect” in your card is
Exactly, they are looking thru a magnifying glass for any miniscule defect.
Try TAG grading…you get an incredibly detailed report explaining EXACTLY why your card received its assigned grade. And pictures are included in the report. And I understand they don’t have the same value as PSA…yet.
I like many of my PC cards graded as well, but if I was focused on raw card collecting, grading would interfere somewhat. It draws cards out of the raw population into the graded population, thereby reducing the selection of raw cards available. You might say - well just crack the card out, but that requires you to pay for the grading premium.
The over-grading of cards has led to a glut of slabbed cards that are easily available for prices comparable to raw cards. Buying cheap slabs and cracking them is completely viable if that's your thing.
There is another downside of card grading, it’s too pricey, and it prices some people out of the hobby. It discourages a lot of people from getting into the hobby deeper because of the. disappointment of the grading you get, you could swear your card is a 10 and then will give you an eight for example it’s kind a dejecting when you spend that money and you get an eight when you thought you were going to get like a 10 so after while you kind of stop submitting and then before you know it, some people stop losing interest
💯 Agree
Good point.
It's not just grading that pices people out of the hobby. Its the raw cards too. Kids can't afford most packs these days. They need to be able to collect. One pack isn't collecting. I was broke as a kid. I had almost no money all the time.
Great video Chris as always. I always enjoy your shows and look forward to them. I am definitely a low roller
I enjoy graded cards but I wish it was cheaper to grade. I understand there’s no real incentive for specifically PSA to lower their prices at the moment but there are plenty of PC cards I would like to have graded (whatever grade they get assigned). I wish I didn’t have to think long and hard about submitting them simply because of pricing but that’s where we are right now. 🤷♂️
my thoughts mostly reflect yours. I think the biggest one that is only tangentially related to breakers is box prices. box prices are bad for the hobby, kids can't buy anymore, 20 years for now, will the hobby be half of what it is as collectors die and new ones don't join?
I don’t think grading is a scam but for me it’s not worth it unless I’m selling, which I rarely do. I do feel high grades, like 10’s are irrationally high, especially on some modern cards, but again I don’t buy them so doesn’t affect me. I did grade a card recently for my PC and got up charged by PSA. Now I feel like I have to sell it because it’s too valuable to keep, lol.
Chris you’re living under a rock. Breakers are the reason you’re not pulling shit in boxes anymore. They’re literally CT scanning the boxes lol.
Breakers have destroyed the hobby for everyone who isn't in breaks
Not sure if you've done an episode in the past, a review of the Grading Charges from each Grading Company?
I don't hate grading. It's a nice service. My complaint about it is that nobody is really honest about what a grade actually means. Like... a grade isn't assigned based on some technical objective threshold... SOME aspects are measurable, like centering (usually)... but other than that, it is subjective and any given card on any given day could get all kinds of different grades based on which individual grader at which individual company is the one grading it, and what kind of mood they're in. PSA 10 doesn't mean "this card is technically perfect" it means "the person grading this card on this date didn't notice anything wrong with it, and in his/her opinion, it looks good enough for a 10"
Jungle green junk wax prizm, Juicy fruit junk wax prizm, Jingle all the way junk wax prizm, etc.....
My thoughts on grading are that it adds value and authenticity, on the upside. The downside is that it gives PSA too much power, and corruption has caused me not to trust these companies.
Grading can be very frustrating. The difference between a 9 and a 10 can be imperceptible to the eye (especially when it is returned in thick plastic), which leads people to say it is arbitrary. Additionally, it is done by humans and can be inconsistent. I graded 25 cards in bulk and 2 came back PSA 10, 11x PSA 9, 10x PSA 8, and the lowest was PSA 7. I then sent in the "high value" card from that set which was stored exactly like the other 25 cards. I even had multiple copies and picked the best one to grade. I paid for premium grading, and it came back PSA 6. Needless to say, that was very frustrating. It makes me wonder; do I get worse grades because I am not a high-volume dealer? I also spent a lot of money for something would have been worth more raw. You can find videos of re-grading resulting in changes to grades or the video you did going from PSA to SGC.
I like my PC cards in a slab, but generally, my grading experience can be summed up as expensive and disappointing.
Non biased is not true i dont mind sticker autos neither. Cool vid
The Ichiro example - 2001 Topps packs are usually bricks and when seperated there is often substantial damage/paper loss. I would think the population of 10's would be quite low which would lead to the higher premium for a 10. Just my thoughts
There are easy solves to these complaints: free enterprise means you get to choose whether to participate in all 5 of these “issues”.
I get a bit tired of getting off my lawn and other mindsets. We can all choose to spend our money in the hobby how we want. Your checkbook is more powerful than your voice.
When free enterprise meets market dominance, the latter prevails.
@@blueodum this is true only after the masses have allowed their checkbook to do the talking. Market dominance is earned in this case. Until someone comes up with something better. Which is inevitable. I can only assume you are talking about PSA. Why do they have market dominance? Because, whether detractors like it or not, they have had millions of cards willingly paid for to be graded. There is no luck in that, they didn’t win a lottery to become the dominant player. They earned their position.
And before anyone calls me a PSA fanboy feel free to reflect on the rationality. Or read up on Friedman or Keynes.
I buy only graded online because I don’t want to trust the raw card to be the condition it appears from the photos in the listing. With it being graded, I’m assured of condition
Grading is a scam because it’s arbitrary. Grading companies are basically printing money
concise and hard to dispute
With grading, is it REALLY a non-biased grade being given when you have to pay different amounts for different grading outcomes? What about when corporate consolidation makes Fanatics + PSA + PWCC the same company? Something like that starts looking like a Clarence Thomas level of conflict of interests.. 💲💲
I dismissed grading as just a money grab back in early 2000s. Eventually i joined the party and its the only way I could afford to expand my collection. Although i give it the eye roll everyday i still submit.
Never forget the old die cuts
I'm not to picky about the sticker auto's. Ya I would probably prefer the on-card auto but what is the difference between a sticker auto and a patch the from the player's uniform on a card? The player didn't stick the patch on the card the card company did. I don't think grading is a scam but I do think it is inconsistent and modern PSA 10's seem overrated to me versus a PSA 9 that is nicely centered.
My main complaint with grading is the upcharge they hit you with depending on the raw value. A card is a card in my opinion. It would cost me tens of thousands to grade my entire collection. Also, all the shady stuff that goes down. Way too many 10s are given that are clearly not a 10. I hope electronic/AI grading really takes off.
Here’s a hot take . Psa 10s not quite bringing the fire like they use to. Feels like it maybe doubles a cards value as opposed to 10X. This is of course a generality and maybe it’s more indicative of the card market in general softening than psa .
I find that I'm much more likely to get value back out of buying a team in a group break than I am buying a box. For the price of a hobby box, you can often get 3-5 teams in a multi box break of the same product. As a collector of Yankee cards, I can just spend $100 on a 6 box break and in all likelihood will end up with something I want for the PC. I don't enjoy buying singles online, and there's no LCS by me to go and look through boxes to find singles for my PC.
Opening packs is gambling no matter how you slice it, you just have more control with group breaks. You can find more bargain buys, get to pick what teams you want cards of.
There are scams, certainly, but it is no more risky than doing any purchase online. Scammers sell "sealed" packs and boxes, do group breaks and sell singles. Every facet of the hobby has scammers unfortunately. Like with singles and sealed wax, there are established breakers with unblemished records of honest dealing. As long as you do the homework, you can avoid scammers.
Really ? Cost of new product isn't a problem for anyone, or not worth talking about ? I guess artificial scarcity / numbered cards that when added up together, has a higher print run than 1988 Donruss, isn't a concern either.
If I owned a card company , I would probably use sticker autos exclusively. It’s just so much less overhead in your production. I know collectors prefer on card but what can you do .
My issue with grading is that PSA 10 is valued way higher than SGC or BGS Gem Mint grades. The Ichiro example you showed, a PSA 10 goes for $1100-1400,an SGC 10 goes for half that. I can understand the low tier companies like HGA, TAG,etc only going for half or less but PSA,SGC, and BGS have all been around since the 90s, all three although each having issues are all well respected within the hobby for their grading, but for PSA to sell for double of SGC or BGS is crazy! 20-30% okay I get, but double! I just don't get it.
Just a quick clarification. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think they send them stickers and then the athlete sends them back. I think someone from company has to see him sign it so they can say they're authenticating it.
Pretty sure they just send them the sheet to sign at their leisure. I don't trust when it says an employee witnesses players sign millions of cards lol. There's likely something in their contract with the card company that says they can get into a lot of trouble if they can prove the autos were signed by someone else.
Upper Deck hockey card patches are pretty much 99% player worn and/or game used. Hockey cards are the OG legit cardboard.
Let's be honest here - Grading (for MOST people) is for flipping cards at a premium. As a true collector I could never imagine "encapsulating" my collection for LOL thousands of dollars.
Except as a perfectionist/slight OCD, it's really intriguing to think my collection is all encapsulated. But it's way too expensive, even if I know I'd increase the value a lot.
Rarity, condition, and historical significance make a card more collectable. Grading preserves the key feature of condition forever and places the card in an entirely new status, "graded". There are raw cards and there are graded cards. Two different hobbies. The difference between golf and pollo is similiar.
I like chicken.
@@stevenkicinski9619 it needed said
Great take
Really bad analogy, polo is a team sport played on a field; golf is individual and played sequentially on 18 different fields. You can liken polo to lacrosse on horses maybe.
@@blueodum i agree
My add-on to the parallels complaint - i wish the card would at least say which parallel it is. Perfect example of this is stadium club baseball sepia vs. black and white - it's really hard to tell the difference sometimes between them.
Totally agree
I keep saying that there should be a small qr code for scanning in that exact card into the various collection tracking sites. Imagine how much faster it would be!
@@Brett_S_420 yeah that would be super helpful. although i will say, i bought a card for a rainbow off ebay recently that he had listed as the /99 parallel and it was actually /85 so the confusion worked out in my favor... but my point still stands lol
In Beckett back in the day a PSA10 was 2.3x a raw...
Nobody is determining the x100 except supply and demand. As more raw are graded increasing the supply, the price will drop. I’ve got no problem with grade prices.
I do not however want to send my PC Cards for grading. In fact if I get a modern card in an 8 for my pc I’ll usually crack it and put it in a new, sleeved one touch to match the rest. I’ve even cracked a couple 9s. I couldn’t do it to a ten though…
For vintage I can totally see getting all graded to ensure authenticity.
Grading in my complaint! I have graded a few times, and typically gem 70% of the cards I expect a 10 on. My last order had 50 cards, and 85% 9's. I knew the grader was rough, and told my buyers that they could probably crack and resub with better grades. 2 months later, I see literally see 9 different cards I sold as a PSA 9 became a 10. Exact same cards, but higher grades depending on the day and grader. The lack of consistency is maddening! I literally have to crack and resub Mutiple times to be profitable. Feels like a scam even if its legit b/c of the subjectivity.
And that's the scam! Why would grading companies even "re-grade" a card? Thought they "stood by" their grading!?
My biggest gripe is these card companies charging more and more for increasingly watered down product, highlighted by all of these points you listed…players signing exclusive deals and not being included in certain sets (cough, panini, cough) yet those companies still increasing their prices every year is absolutely asinine and has torpedoed the hobby imo
Grading is subjective. Maybe someday A.I. software grading will make it much more consistent.
TAG does, but not with vintage. Yet.
Pack odds... They are not accurate. One can watch an adequate sample size of box breaks, add the numbers up, and prove that published pack odd are not accurate. I did this a few years ago for Allen and Ginter, and found that pack odds were overstated relative to the cards that come out of the boxes.
I’m a fan of grading but I think the 10 is overvalued compared to the 9 on most cards. A 1992 Jeff Kent in a psa 9 sells for $5 but a 10 sells for $170. Some of the multipliers are insane.
Also, ultra modern many times a raw copy will sell for the same or more than a 9. I recently bought some Victor W cards at a garage sale, and the raw prices sell just a little more than PSA 9 prices, although the upside of the 10 is a 2x upside it’s not worth me sending in to grade when I can sell raw and know that I will make a good profit on it.
grading: the fact someone can send in..get an 8. Crack it resubmit and get a 10? Also people buying 8s and 9s, cracking them and selling raw because they are worth more
Chris, How does PSA justify upcharging for high grade cards? It don't cost the comany more money to grade a card a "10" versus a "1". Why should grading a $5000 "10" cost more than grading a $50 "1"? The company is providing the same exact service to a card, regardless of grade, right?In that aspect I think grading (PSA) is kind of a scam. What am I missing? Thanks.
Every time I send to PSA i hope for an upcharge. lack of consistency with grades is my only issue. you dont have to use PSA . there are graders that dont charge upcharge. you can also buy a steak at cheap restaurant for 10 bucks but costs 100 at fancy place.
One reason I’ve heard a few times is the cost of insurance for cards that are more valuable. However, I don’t think it’s fair to say that alone is responsible for the upcharge. Grading companies likely see the valued added as something they should get a piece of, rightfully so or not, and use it to increase their revenue.
I agree with you. For regular cards they would spend the same amount of time to grade a card a 10 or a 5. That is true. The part you are missing is that PSA insures the card. If they make a mistake with the grade (graded a fake card or over graded it) they will buy the card back from you. So that upcharge is the insurance cost. Again, I agree with you that it’s ridiculous- yes, just take your time grading it properly and then you won’t over grade or grade fake card. I’m just explaining the process to you and what the upcharge is actually for - not time, but insurance.
@@jeremypaul6454oh for sure! It is 100% a way to increase revenue. And if upcharges were a little bit, say $10 or so it would suck, but people would be able to live with it. Some of these are ridiculous!
FYI both CGC and SGC (for vintage only) also upcharge. I view upcharges as an unpopular (and perhaps greedy) policy, not a scam.
Turtleneck weather is upon us in the north 🍂 🎃
lol I’m colorblind not a great time to collect no idea what color I pull. I emailed Topps and Panini asking to put the color on the back lol.
I've been guessing that it was only a matter of time that all these short print parallels would drop huge in value. As the cards get older less and less people will know or care if they exist and the masses will just become parallel commons
For most non superstars this is true, but it’s tough to argue that a low serial number card isn’t rare (even if there’s 10 other low serial numbered cards of the player in the same set)
Good Vid! How about instead of just Silly Parallele different colors a Different Picture of the player with each color a different picture and pose. At least it would make that version stand out more. How hard would that be for these card companies charging so much for these new boxes of cards?
I absolutely hate PSA's upcharge policy. They are essentially cardnapping your property and will send you an email asking for a ransom. The prices should be set, I don't know how this practice is legal. Beckett isn't any better either. Their pricing for expensive cards is also predatory. I also feel like they favor influencers and big content creators when it comes to giving out black labels. End of rant.
"I know we took your money to do this, but because you have something desirable, we'll need more cash to give it back". Someone else said "it's not a scam". Maybe they're right, it's more Ponzi scheme than traditional scam, lol.
PSA cant even keep track of the parallels. Calling a pink a magenta .