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@@jsssportscardcollectibles3626 Chris here - yeah, there’s almost no argument against it now. But if everybody stops ripping, how will singles hit the market??
Chris here - don't get ahead of yourself just yet. Not every breaker is a bad person. Some are honest, reputable collectors just like us. Unfortunately, it only takes a few rotten ones to spoil everything, right?
T-Pot deserves a RUclips Emmy for his reporting..... IF wax is dead T-Pot's boss stands to lose a ton of customers. CT scans make the most sense in explaining the ludicrous calls for freaky pulls. While Breakout is keeping the good stuff they are selling all the crap they know is barren of any good hits... double whammy. It's on par with playing Texas Hold'em with a cold deck... designed to lose.
SCR has been telling collectors about this kind of junk. As well as the general lack of integrity shown by numerous “hobby influencers” for a good minute now.
What needs to happen is the people in the hobby have to have some gd integrity and not be a complete douche and not use the scan service…obv people will still use it but the less that do the better everyone will be and if someone, particularly a seller or store owner, is found out to be using the service they should lose their access to buying from Topps, panini and the rest…but this would depend on everyone in the hobby to be vigilant and call the offenders out and try to preserve this.
That was a joke and a slap to collectors with a functioning brain. The more I see Michael Rubin the more I'm convinced that he needs an exorcism. He looks totally demonic. I've thought this for a while.
That was an absolute joke and if you were wondering what kind of fellow Michael Rubin was prior to that he gave you his reply. Actions speak louder than words kind of thing. That was a pre-determined 'stunt' imo and in most spheres of business would've been embarrassing and perhaps brand tarnishing. But not in the sports card world. Just a few disgruntled comments on social media and the circus rolled on.
Geoff definitely made as if you were insane to believe something "nefarious" was going on, but you were absolutely right T-Pott. It's because Geoff is a mouthpiece for the industry, and he will always choose his business over truth. You are THE reason I still follow SCI. Please, branch off and do your own thing.
Geoff would be crazy to let T-Pott go. I suspect there are many folks who continue to consume SCI content because of T-Pott. He gives the brand a whiff of integrity and authenticity. Not saying Geoff has none of either but T-Pott has lots.
@@1stBowman Why are people affraid to speak out? It's not a lie it's not an opinion. Geoff is a goof and has shown he knows very little about cards, and you can tell by his videos those are acripted just the way he talks proves that. My opinion is that he went in a bad direction with his opportunity in the hobby, but that is his right and choice just like it is mine to speak out on what I think. I am not a fan of a walking commercial like him. It's not authentic and genuine. Lotta people today will do whatever is needed for some clicky clicks.
@@TheCardDeal Believe me when I say I'm not a fan of SCI. I've softened on him in recent times but his conduct in the early years of the SCI channel was scandalous imo. Little to no hobby knowledge, cherry picking data to paint the most favourable picture, and perhaps worst of all continually banging on about card investing which is essentially a bad idea. Not to mention Metazoo, Dibs, the NFT's, the leg up he gave the real estate creep with regards to vintage soccer. It's a lengthy 'rap sheet'. However, he seems to have acquired a fair amount of knowledge in the last few years and toned down the bs. And while he's not my cup of tea and never will be, like most people he has some redeeming features and I think his contribution to the hobby is more positive than negative these days. I would not have said that a few years ago. It was mostly bad to anyone who could see through the hype. He's a polarising figure for sure. I'd take him over Garry Vee any day of the week, though. Vee makes me physically ill.
This is the best episode yet! I dig how passionate Ty is on this one. He is so right! I'm with you guys, not gonna buy any wax... not at these prices and not with CT scanning possible.
With card makers needing the gambling aspects of the hobby to keep prices up, this is a major problem for them. Can the card makers adjust is the big question. Fanatics money woes at this point partnered with this could honestly bankrupt them.
@@Bryan45552 Chris here - if people just stop buying huger end products like dynasty, that’s a huge problem for fanatics. Will they have time to do something to protect Bowman Chrome? Probably not.
Ya I hope he’s getting paid well. I don’t think you could pay me enough to have to kiss ass and agree with insanity like Desmond Ritter or Gary Vee animal cards are a great investment.
Here is one for you Teapot. BackYard breaks bought a ton of product. They had it scanned or scanned it themselves and were able to determine from the scans which ones had the huge hits. They did their breaks with these boxes and also hooked up friends with some of the teams that had the huge hits. The rest of the non-hitters, they had someone sell that product for them. It would make sense for them to open the big hitters because every follower would always believe they are going to hit and pay much higher prices to be in these breaks to hit a banger. Plus, everyone that knew about it or heard about it would advertise their channel for them.
I assumed this is been going on forever!! I was freezing hobby packs of Allen and Ginter ever since Rip cards (2018) introduced Metal and Stained Glass inside of them. By freezing them I could use a Flir Heat Scanner and see which packs got colder and stayed colder!! If there is a will there's a way !
Tree at was actually the true criminals fault. Panini already releases 1 in 40 boxes that return more money than was spent. Now you add this and you can finally do what I’ve been doing since 2012…… BUY SINGLES
Loved the honesty from all 4 of you in this video. Great to have some ambassadors for the hobby that actually care and want things to stay fair. It's a real shame this is even a thing, but now we have an even bigger reason to stick to singles!
I got into this hobby at the wrong time. I wish I could get all my money back for all the shady breaks Ive entered and all the hobby boxes I’ve bought. What a joke. This whole hobby is filled with incels.
Scottie is right. So much more valuable to report the facts rather than hype it up and bow to threats. It’s one of the problems when RUclipsrs with no journalism background cosplay as journalists. (edited to correct a spelling typo)
And almost ALL rarely have a story that is newsworthy or original. But because RUclips pays them/cuts a check...they now have to keep up on the news and spin stories to keep those payments roll in.
Chris here - with soaring box prices, Singles have long been the play. But I'm concerned how many singles will actually surface if most collectors don't trust the boxes. Ripple effects will be a factor.
Chris here - as this story spreads, people will surely leave the hobby. Packs and boxes are the entry point and now they're corrupted. Its so frustrating,
Great video as always fellas. I totally agree with Ty and his frustration over this issue. I learned a long time ago that a lot of breakers do a lot of shady things behind closed doors. Not all, but many. Always remember, if something can be done that it will be done. Has anyone else ever noticed that large breakers when at shows have some of the nicest high end showcases?? I understand that they buy back cards occasionally but C’mon. It has been right in front of us for at least a decade. I didn’t even mention the card swapping or straight up stealing that some have been caught doing. On a side note, I can’t wait till I pull my first 1/1 Lead plate out of Flawless…LOL!
There are dishonest people in every instance where money can be made. This problem doesn't affect me as there is no way I can afford it. Topps Chrome jumbo is no longer affordable for me. Don't think they will start scanning blasters.
Did you'all catch Shine at the National pull the Kobe/Lebron Dual Auto /10 with inscriptions, .. 1000% that box was scanned and he new what was in there, Brought that box to National to be opened and share the moment.. As far as him saying the other box was tampered with, I feel like hes trying to difflect us in another direction. And that will be the future. Opening boxes at National that have the big hit in it. Its not illegal, Shine jus did it! It was Great! Lol
Chris and T-Pot’s reaction to Scott’s “I’m in my sister’s bedroom in Idaho” comment was fantastic! Because it’s Idaho, it adds another layer to that comment:)
What do you know all the “premium” wax has lost its value right in time for Fanatics takes over. Now the only “good” premium will be the new stuff that they put out bought directly from them or one of their breakers. They take control of the breaking market without having to do a thing AND they devalue all the old wax opening up all that cash to buy their new stuff. I wonder how much of a coincidence this is…..
This is absolutely disgusting. Maybe the future is buying packs, boxes directly from Panini and or Topps/Fanatics and not buying from “middlemen”. Breakers might have to think of a career change now. Collectors should not be buying into breaks.
Right - but its tough because so much product is "allocated" to distributors that collectors looking for single boxes dont have a lot of inventory available.
Quick thought to add. This hobby can be very fragile and if breakers and companies who help keep wax alive take a big hit for a long enough period…. We could see some serious correction to the overall hobby. For people who are mainly collectors, most of us would prefer if wax took a huge drop so we could actually rip stuff again. Obviously that’ll make singles go down too
Chris here - I think youre right. When stuff like this happens and scumbags get busted and scams are revealed its bad across the whole hobby. People will leave and stop collecting. We all get hurt.
@@SpitballinCards Thanks for the “I think you’re right”, haven’t heard that in my house in some time. So giddy I may just go buy a box of chrome! We all love to see scumbags get busted but yes, unfortunately everyone will suffer
I hate this but I love seeing TPott get worked up and when he said Angel Hernandez I knew it was going to be good. And agree with TPott, he is correct on the wax and the dirty people who are doing this.
@@Blabbin_Bout_Slabbin Yes, when he was talking with Jeff and the other guy. T-Pot was so obviously right. I edited my original message so it was clear I wasn't talking about this video. I understand why a large business like that wouldn't want to throw around accusations, but there was no reason to dismiss T-pot's research and claim his reasoning was flawed because he started with a conclusion in mind. That's just not how logical fallacies or statistical analysis works. It was basically calling any scientific work that ever began with a hypothesis flawed.
Gio said not many boxes went through this process. He’s just guessing and underestimating things. The industrial company is just one of the companies. Plus the machinery is out there and I bet there’s plenty of collectors/opportunist out there with access to this equipment. Who’s to say a huge retailer or wax holder didn’t contract one of these ppl to scan countless boxes in there inventory for days/weeks. Can’t downplay any scenario.
Yeah, exactly. just assume 90% of older or high end wax has been scanned. I mean, Goldin used a CT Scanner on iphones on their show, right?? Are just to believe they stopped there??
Look, if these guys were getting the 1 of 1’s for every player so to speak that would have to be through a connection at panini, CT scanners couldn’t get you the product hits again & again unless they bought 80-90% of the product & scanned it all, sold off the others (which clearly didn’t happen).. Also, even with the best technology on earth, you couldn’t call your shot on certain products, you might be able to narrow it down but this SCREAMS of having an inside man at Panini or the printer/manufacturer
Even Breakers should be nervous. Not only am I pissed with this, as a holder of some wax....but my confidence in jumping in breaks is greatly diminished....even though the places I break with seem trustworthy. It's crazy. It's sad. Getting excited about new releases is basically dead now
@Blabbin_Bout_Slabbin I just keep picturing the video of that guy sitting on the floor in Target back in 2012 weighing Bowman Platinum packs trying to find Bryce Harper autos.
The CT scanning video was a perfectly timed dropped. It's no coincidence it was dropped right before Fanatics Fest in my opinion. I think Fanatics has a perfect opportunity right now to address how they are going to avoid this kind of shit going forward. The hobby NEEDS someone at the top to step up and talk about this. We don't care what Geoff, BYB, CC2, or anyone on that level has to say. They are all lap dogs.
From my own perspective this hobby will always be flying by VFR .... in pilots terms its using visual daylight landscape to fly a plane along with some basic instrument reference ....IF you are opening your wallet with wax (flying at night) be prepared to lose it all...For my PC collection its buying already slabbed cards or nothing ~VFR~(I can see the end product ~high end vintage and modern~ and remove the monetary risk of getting it there.)... I certainly understand the thrill of wax but with the LUDICROUS cost and nefarious crap pervasive in the hobby its a waste of time and money. This hobby lacks very basic instruments (crucial to flying) & vital guarantees in most aspects that offer peace of mind ~even with grading most submitters are dumbstruck half the time b/c we all realize the graders are "winging it" too without utilizing the tech required to back up their educated guesses .... Any fiduciary operating in your best interests given the sports collectibles landscape would not recommend buying into the hobby with all its current pitfalls. The problem with guys like Geoff Wilson are they are so heavily invested in the business they are basically in bed with the card producers for better or worse.... IF the card producers destroy the hobby everyone like Geoff is headed for the drain along with them.....And personally, I don't think Geoff is in it for the money ~ I think most of it is?~ he has plenty of discretionary income to blow and enjoys the limelight with big dreams of revolutionizing the hobby.... (btw ~an admirable desire to many) I hope at the end of the day he does revolutionize the hobby... we can all benefit. Either way this hobby has so many hands out with nefarious angles to them its a real minefield. Moderation and caution moving forward.
Thank you Guys for talking about this, these Breakers should be Banned from selling Products anywhere, that's why I stopped buying into Breaks and just Buy Single cards,Buy what you like and can Afford.
bit the bullet and watched a backyard break for about an hour or two. they have a huge banner saying “We have Loaded boxes!” and just kept bragging the whole time saying their boxes are where to go. It doesn’t look like they are keeping it secret and unfortunately a good few hundred people keep watching and buying. 🤷🏽♂️
Why can’t Topps put a disclaimer online and all boxes going forward that it’s prohibited to tamper with (or use devices) that could reveal or disclose what’s in the box THEN go after all these pop up companies. There has to be some legal recourse.
Chris here - I'm not exactly when it's officially FRAUD, but selling a box as if it may contain hits when you know for a fact it doesn;t sounds fraudulent. If you're breaking a case and you know an Elly 1/1 is in there so you contact a buddy and sell him the reds team, then he sells the card and you split the money - that's absolutely fraud. Or at least it feels like it. Dishonest and shitty as hell. So we'll see what comes if this.
The issue isn't pop up companies. Look up industrial NDT (non destructive testing). Just about any manufacturing business has the ability to do this. And it takes no time at all. Well at least at my previous employer. We used this on thick metals to find internal cracks, imperfections, hell we could determine if the metal flowed/cooled in the correct direction for manufacturing purposes. So looking at cards wouldn't be difficult with the right equipment and experience. With businesses having expensive equipment and needing to make money, I'd bet there are multiple companies doing this.
@@steveot76 appreciate the info and you’re 100% right. Where there’s an opportunity or gap, it will get exploited or abused. With a few companies recently advertising now, if there was legal disclaimer, all it takes is community whistleblowers so Topps can go after and news will spread of action. Doesn’t solve for it still taking place underground but at least there’s some kind of deterrent. I also agree with some kind of indicator under the plastic wrap as well if scanned.
I agree with Scottie B and T-Pott… I stopped buying hobby boxes a long time ago. A cheap retail box for fun yes. I will never buy boxes now. Also stacking the deck to increase the odds of statistically impossible hits time and time again. Makes me super suspicious. As for not revealing the information, could be a number of legal issues and conflicts of interest. Unfortunately the business of the hobby will have to be regulated. The industry has to crack down on this perhaps call the FBI. This just stinks because integrity is gone and now possible regulation. Horrible outcome
@@SpitballinCards can't trust anyone. My guess if no one can trust unopened older and high end wax, then those boxes will have to be opened and sold as singles. The temptation is too great not have your boxes CT scanned for mega hits that can bring life changing money. This is just horrible.
I see Phil is conspicuously absent for this episode. The price of wax has skyrocketed even at retail level. I just saw Chrome Megas at $65. I can't justify that price but hobby is even worse. Glad at least I stashed 18 through 22 baseball when it was more affordable. I'll focus more on singles also. Fanatics doesn't care about collectors and frankly neither has Topps or Panini.
The only way this could ever be good is if all scans are made public immediately. Then EVERYONE can just know the cards listed in the box. All pristine unopened. Other than that is this the sealed card-pocalypse 😓😓
Didn’t know who Ty was before this show was created but he’s one of my Favs on the show! Put this guy behind a podium immediately! Would also like to hear was Philmington is thinking after the interview lol
After the national i complained about Ty take. Today i commend him n his fire and anger. This can’t continue. This is the fabric of modern cards to not know what’s inside. There have been lots of speculation over a couple of east coast suppliers and dead boxes. We need the FBI. Thanks guys.
I remember watching a big time/high end collector doing breaks of F1 dynasty cases. Multiple $50k breaks. In those breaks there wasn’t much pulled of value. This person isn’t a “breaker” but is sitting on a ton of wax and has a collection of singles that is mind blowing. He’s all over the hobby. Hanging out and being friends with the biggest people in the hobby. There’s zero doubt in my mind especially now that he didn’t know the contents in these cases.
The prices on cases of complete garbage are out of control. Eventually some of these people will stop burning money and figure out that they'd rather build a valuable/desirable collection. You can still get Mahomes RC on card autos for less than cases of 2023 sandwich company NFL garbage, even Brady on card mid-range, really nice autos are in that realm. The NFL market is complete nonsense. There is HUGE opportunity on quality cards. As for this scanning thing - I haven't bought sealed product in nearly a decade. Statistically, it's been a massive losing proposition for a LONG time, magnified exponentially in 2020.
Chris here - I'm right there with you. RIpping is a losing enterprise. It can be fun, but your collection will suffer as that money is wasted. But here;s my fear - if scanning stops people from ripping, will good singles even hit the market??
@@SpitballinCards I don't think it'll affect breaking new products all that much. I mean, there aren't a lot of private collectors ripping through $12k suitcases of Flawless, or whatever they run these days. The breakers can state that they get their supply directly from Topps/Fanatics/UD and people will still buy into breaks. Heck, it could HELP them.
1st off there hasn't been a level playing field in the hobby for years. Hobby boxes having better product than retail has been around a long time, and now seeing retail demand dwindle is going to be a big problem for the hobby. 2nd the price for participating has gotten away from being a hobby to a rich persons hobby that most of us cannot participate in. I haven't bought boxes for years or packs, primarily I grab singles and affordable slabs at shows or eBay, that has been the state of the hobby for many of us...
Really appreciate you guys saying what isn’t being said … good on you! You gotta beat these people at their own game tho … I agree with the disruption comment but if you want to really get even … figure out a way to get the CT scan machine to scan a dud card as a big hit. There’s an old saying … don’t get mad, get even. Then from there , there needs to be a legitimate conversation and long term solution to level the playing field for the foreseeable future.
I had to pick up the 'Gold Rush' Lenny Dykstra card from '95 Score that was mentioned a few episodes ago. It's not Angel Hernandes' "rookie" card, but it's his best image not close. Fun fact, Angel Hernandes was first featured by card manufacturer, 'The Star Company', who produced an umpire subset in their 1991 MLB baseball set.
Great episode folks. What I love the most is how passionate you are about the hobby. Question is, will Topps / Panini do anything about it? In the past both parties shone with ignorance. Only if/ when box sales decrease they will act. I give that a chance of 20-30%. More likely is that the secondary market dries out more because the informed buyer will now about scanning and only buy from the manufacturers directly. The idea to put sth in the box that prevents scanning, could just be an additional layer of metal or metallic bag (you do not want to use lead, though toxic). Pretty sure they will figure that out quickly, if they a willing to do so. Even as I dispise this practice, because you knowingling take advantage of the buyer of your box, it is just taking advantage of technology, as weighing of packs is as well. Where it becomes tricky is that the technology is not available to everyone and results of the scans are not disclosed.
All autos, numbered cards, patches should be redemption cards print on cardboard. Every hobby box has 3-4 cards that can’t be scanned. All hits should be on cardboard.
The solution is very simple. Buy sealed wax from Fanatics/Topps or a Fanatics verified and trusted breaker on the Fanatics Live platform. Whether people like it or not that is where we are headed I'd venture to say in the next 5 yrs or less.
But how far back can you go?? Can you even fully trust the manufacturers? What's to stop them from scanning before sending to the distributers or preferred breakers?
After watching this video, I did a quick internet search and found that radiochromic film changes color when exposed to radiation. Perhaps card companies can stick a small piece of the film, or other commercially available radiation-sensitive film, on the outside of the boxes (and even the inside as well to prevent tampering) as a visual marker to indicate whether the boxes had been CT scanned or not. I’m not a radiologist and my internet search time was a long five minutes, so I’m not sure if the idea is even viable 😅
This is just my opinion after returning to the hobby after being away from it for 33 years. But, what did we really expect to happen to this hobby during the height of gambling being offered up everywhere you look? And where there's gambling, there’s going to be degenerate cheaters and people who want to break the rules in their favor. The pandemic brought a lot of gamblers to the hobby when the casino's were shut down and they've hung around... which is fine, but the degerates that tagged along (like this idiot with the scanner) are f'ing it up for everyone else. I have nothing against Breakers but I feel that the practice is EXACTLY what could bring state governments to start classifying it as illegal gambling and give the hobby a black eye. This scanning situation is only going to bring the eyes of regulation to the hobby faster.
I’m no lawyer, but you can’t just say “I can’t be held responsible” if you’re committing a crime right? The lottery ticket metaphor makes the most sense to me. Seems extremely illegal, whether it’s a business or not.
@@KK-pm7ud Chris here - I'm wondering if there;s an argument for Fraud here. Especially if you sell the boxes knowing theres nothing in them. Or if the breakers know there's a huge 1/1 and they make a deal with a buyer to split the card??
@@SpitballinCards If a person sells a box of cards to someone else and they make no disclosures I cannot think of any issues. It's not like selling a home where there are required disclosures if there is something a seller knows about the home isn't disclosed to the buyer. Now if someone asks the seller if they know if the box was ever scanned by a CT scanner and the seller says that it wasn't never scanned to their knowledge and it can be proven they did in fact know, then I would think there could be a potential case for fraud.
For any collectable to maintain a big following... there has to be new product. Fanatics does not have to sell sealed products... but they have to sell new stuff. Sales of new product spurs on sales of vintage products and singles. Something has to change if the hobby is to continue and not stagnate to death. I can name lots of things that people used to collect and now are no longer made new.... that have plummeted in value and demand. I get also that some people collect for emotional reasons not investment. But when you spend so much money collecting what you like.... you hope to be able to get something back when you sell. The new multi $1,000 products are pretty silly in my opinion.... but they must fill a demand.
High end products make zero sense to me even before the scanning... If you're going to spend $1,000 or more on a box.... why not just buy the same value card you really want?
Ct scanning has been happening since the 80s, it was primarily used for authentication but I’m pretty sure it’s been used beyond that. There’s a RUclips video that talks about this, and how long it’s been happening.
Another reason buying into breaks is crazy is the prices the customers pay. A breaker who I buy in sometimes just had a Topps monster break that the top 18 spots paid for the entire cost of the product. That left 282 base plus insert/non base spots in total profit minus labor and overhead. Unreal how bad the understanding of value is out there. It was around $6500 worth of product.
Here's an example of how atrocious the value of breaking is and this example is from a repack product from Australia's biggest breaker and hobby shop. It's called GEM. They make up 50 boxes with each box containing 6 slabbed cards/booklets, etc. Depending on the sport you either pay $50 or $100 per spot. There are 32 spots for NBA and NFL. Only six of the 32 spots win a card( random break). You have an 18.75 % chance of hitting a card with one spot. Flipped around the true odds for such a bet should be about 4-1.( slightly bettr in fact 4.3-1) If you back a horse at 4-1 with $100 you win $400 instantly. However, with this break you merely get a chance at a card that could still see you lose half your money, break even, have a small win, double your money, or a very small chance to hit one of the chase cards( perhaps 4 out of the 300 cards) which might present between 10X-15X when the true odds of hitting such a card is more like 80-1. In short, breaking offers the worst bang for your gambling buck by a long way. And this is with a repack product done by a reputable business. Sealed wax offers much worse odds and effectively no odds at all if it's been searched/scanned. The moral is that participating in breaks is borderline insanity.
We're to the place in the hobby where we know what we have without ever opening product and we still don't know if a card is a 6 or a 10!!! Welcome newcomers
Hopefully more information comes out. As T-Pott said, it was a bait and switch on Sports Card Madness’s end. How long does it take for this to impact the market? Last weekend a 2003 ultimate collection box sold for $13.8k on fanatics.
RIght? We're all waiting. There must've been threats and pressure. I mean if the Scanning company is willing to give out the names of people who are trying to cheat the hobby, the desire to use them probably disappears.
If a person doesn't own their own CT Scanner, is it a value proposition to pay someone a decent amount of money to scan your boxes if the boxes only have a "certain" value? In other words, how much does a box have to be worth in order for it to make sense to pay someone to scan your box? If you have a bunch of 2021 Topps Chrome Black baseball boxes worth $140, does it pay to have someone scan your boxes? The other thing about someone scanning your boxes -- how do you know you are getting the same box(es) back? If they found a huge card, wouldn't it be a natural course of action with all the scumbags that are out there these days for them to quickly get on Ebay and buy a similar box and then ship that box to you and keep your box that had the monster hit in it?
All good questions. I think this affects the higher end the most, but depending how many people have access, it WILL work it's way down to some cheaper products. As far as the product swapping, the company that does this provides tamperproof packaging for you to put your stuff in, seal it and sign over the seal. To scan they do NOT need to remove the item from that packaging. So maybe it's secure?
Thanks T-pot, it just reminds me (referring to those guys pulling unrealistic rare $hit and literally calling cards right before they are pulled) makes me think (and yes i know its cliche) but age has taught me...."If it's too good to be true, 99.9% of the time, sadly, it's because is. Good show fellas.
Love this discussion and the passion you all have denouncing this scummy process. In a perverse way, can this end up helping the hobby? One of the factors always cited for inflated wax prices is breakers, who have driven up prices. Well, if you can’t trust a case or a box unless you buy it directly off Topps web site, doesn’t that mean fewer people will be willing to trust and buy into breaks? Then the number of breakers begins to dwindle. Wax prices eventually begin to follow suit maybe? I know this is overly optimistic. And it doesn’t help with the status/value of existing wax. And it doesn’t help your LCS. But, long-term, maybe some good can come of it. And I really do hope the FBI gets involved. This is no different than insider trading… other than sports cards don’t have robust securities regulations and SEC enforcement. But, fraud is fraud and can still be prosecuted.
Chris here - maybe if enough people learn about this. We have to keep spreading the information around. I'd love to see wax prices come down and if decreasing demand is what does it, so be it.
Great episode gentlemen! IMO Topps needs to lead. They need to condemn this practice and develop a technology that prevents it.This needs to be done immediately @Topps!
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Didn't Jeff just post a video with a guy who had graded packs that you can see the top and bottom card? Jeff seemed pretty excited about that 😮
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To all the people who've been saying for years, 'Just Buy Singles', my bad. You were right.
@@jsssportscardcollectibles3626 Chris here - yeah, there’s almost no argument against it now.
But if everybody stops ripping, how will singles hit the market??
😂😂
Started buying singles a while ago…Box prices are a joke.
I think the scanner will be good for vintage and to catch people resealing projects with other cards in that box
@@grayharris672 Too bad that Pokemon case a couple years back wasn;t scanned!
I’m glad it won’t be the same , the hobby is better without breakers
Chris here - don't get ahead of yourself just yet. Not every breaker is a bad person. Some are honest, reputable collectors just like us.
Unfortunately, it only takes a few rotten ones to spoil everything, right?
Breaking has a place in the hobby for sure but not as it's currently set up. It's a farce.
TheCardBoardJungle is amazing.. dudes actually care about their customers
T-Pot deserves a RUclips Emmy for his reporting..... IF wax is dead T-Pot's boss stands to lose a ton of customers. CT scans make the most sense in explaining the ludicrous calls for freaky pulls. While Breakout is keeping the good stuff they are selling all the crap they know is barren of any good hits... double whammy. It's on par with playing Texas Hold'em with a cold deck... designed to lose.
@@popsmoke99 😂😂
yes t-pot did great they all did glad they talked about it ...Yes geoff has a hugh sealed collection and hes not the only one.
@@alphaomega9563 Thanks for watching!
SCR has been telling collectors about this kind of junk. As well as the general lack of integrity shown by numerous “hobby influencers” for a good minute now.
What needs to happen is the people in the hobby have to have some gd integrity and not be a complete douche and not use the scan service…obv people will still use it but the less that do the better everyone will be and if someone, particularly a seller or store owner, is found out to be using the service they should lose their access to buying from Topps, panini and the rest…but this would depend on everyone in the hobby to be vigilant and call the offenders out and try to preserve this.
i love that T-Pott is taking his victory lap. sweet sweet vindacation
@@forpetesake20 Chris here - he deserves it!
@@forpetesake20 💪🏼
I mean how many players got PMG cards that were serialized it’s not gonna be a Jordan 100% if there’s a checklist of 15 or 10 it’s still a risk
Remember when that soccer player pulled a 1/1 Jackie Robinson auto in front of Michael Rubin…. This has been going on for awhile.
Yeah, hard to believe any of those big (timely!) hits were real.
Chris here - great call!! This has definitely been going on for awhile. I kind of feel dumb for not assuming something like this was in play.
That was a joke and a slap to collectors with a functioning brain. The more I see Michael Rubin the more I'm convinced that he needs an exorcism. He looks totally demonic. I've thought this for a while.
We’ve been had.
That was an absolute joke and if you were wondering what kind of fellow Michael Rubin was prior to that he gave you his reply. Actions speak louder than words kind of thing. That was a pre-determined 'stunt' imo and in most spheres of business would've been embarrassing and perhaps brand tarnishing. But not in the sports card world. Just a few disgruntled comments on social media and the circus rolled on.
I’m glad I just started collecting and have quickly leaned to just buy what I want to collect and avoid breaking
Chris here - well done! You're ahead of the curve and learned that faster than most - including us!
Geoff definitely made as if you were insane to believe something "nefarious" was going on, but you were absolutely right T-Pott. It's because Geoff is a mouthpiece for the industry, and he will always choose his business over truth. You are THE reason I still follow SCI. Please, branch off and do your own thing.
People that listen to his crap needs an examination from a doctor.
Geoff can’t even spell his name right
Geoff would be crazy to let T-Pott go. I suspect there are many folks who continue to consume SCI content because of T-Pott. He gives the brand a whiff of integrity and authenticity. Not saying Geoff has none of either but T-Pott has lots.
@@1stBowman Why are people affraid to speak out? It's not a lie it's not an opinion. Geoff is a goof and has shown he knows very little about cards, and you can tell by his videos those are acripted just the way he talks proves that. My opinion is that he went in a bad direction with his opportunity in the hobby, but that is his right and choice just like it is mine to speak out on what I think. I am not a fan of a walking commercial like him. It's not authentic and genuine. Lotta people today will do whatever is needed for some clicky clicks.
@@TheCardDeal Believe me when I say I'm not a fan of SCI. I've softened on him in recent times but his conduct in the early years of the SCI channel was scandalous imo. Little to no hobby knowledge, cherry picking data to paint the most favourable picture, and perhaps worst of all continually banging on about card investing which is essentially a bad idea. Not to mention Metazoo, Dibs, the NFT's, the leg up he gave the real estate creep with regards to vintage soccer. It's a lengthy 'rap sheet'. However, he seems to have acquired a fair amount of knowledge in the last few years and toned down the bs. And while he's not my cup of tea and never will be, like most people he has some redeeming features and I think his contribution to the hobby is more positive than negative these days. I would not have said that a few years ago. It was mostly bad to anyone who could see through the hype. He's a polarising figure for sure. I'd take him over Garry Vee any day of the week, though. Vee makes me physically ill.
This is the best episode yet! I dig how passionate Ty is on this one. He is so right! I'm with you guys, not gonna buy any wax... not at these prices and not with CT scanning possible.
Chris here - agreed! Maybe stadium club because why bother scanning it.
You guys are so fun to listen too, Ty's passion in this video was fun to watch!
@@DarinsCards Chris here - yeah he was fired up!!
This situation is terrible for the hobby
@@DarinsCards Jeff here: appreciate the support! 💪🏼
It was unprecedented. 🎉
@@BringingTheHeat-VBC We just had to let him cook! 🔥
@@Blabbin_Bout_Slabbin cook. T-Bag was boilin!😁
You ever wonder how passionate T-pot is about the hobby? Wonder no longer...my man just compared sealed wax scans to reaper drone assassinations 😂😂
👍👍
Tpott giving off mad serial killer vibes ever since this CT story came out 😂
All I can say is Ty is 100% right on everything he said.
Chris here - AGREED
they are cheaters and should be banned from the hobby
@@mitchellrainer6901 💯💯💯💯
There’s also potential fraud here.
T-Pott giving that soft spoken, mellow serial killer vibe in this vid
@@Will_The_Ripper 🤣
Chris here - if any youtube account would recognize it, your username suggests you might!
With card makers needing the gambling aspects of the hobby to keep prices up, this is a major problem for them. Can the card makers adjust is the big question. Fanatics money woes at this point partnered with this could honestly bankrupt them.
@@Bryan45552 Chris here - if people just stop buying huger end products like dynasty, that’s a huge problem for fanatics.
Will they have time to do something to protect Bowman Chrome? Probably not.
Ty's relationship with his boss must be uncomfortable at times. I hope to see him as his own boss in the not too distant future.
Ty is the best!
Ya I hope he’s getting paid well. I don’t think you could pay me enough to have to kiss ass and agree with insanity like Desmond Ritter or Gary Vee animal cards are a great investment.
Here is one for you Teapot. BackYard breaks bought a ton of product. They had it scanned or scanned it themselves and were able to determine from the scans which ones had the huge hits. They did their breaks with these boxes and also hooked up friends with some of the teams that had the huge hits. The rest of the non-hitters, they had someone sell that product for them. It would make sense for them to open the big hitters because every follower would always believe they are going to hit and pay much higher prices to be in these breaks to hit a banger. Plus, everyone that knew about it or heard about it would advertise their channel for them.
@@bigcryptocrazyal3433 in hindsight, it almost seems obvious.
Jeff here: makes sense to me, don't even need too big of a tin foil hat anymore.
This has to be the most passionate episode of Spitballin' yet. I love it.
Chris here - you might be right. Outside of my depression after Acuna's injury
@@rockiesinoctober Yeah I think so, man. Even Ty was fired up!
I assumed this is been going on forever!! I was freezing hobby packs of Allen and Ginter ever since Rip cards (2018) introduced Metal and Stained Glass inside of them. By freezing them I could use a Flir Heat Scanner and see which packs got colder and stayed colder!!
If there is a will there's a way !
Wow, that’s some next level ingenuity I have to say. Did it work??
@@Blabbin_Bout_Slabbin Yes! Worked Great!
Just open them all @@SpartacusCZ
now i know why i always get 98 percent crap from all the hobby boxes i opened at my card shop over the years
@@mitchellrainer6901 Chris here - odds are those boxes are full of crap anyway, but knowing this tech has been out there - who can we trust??
@SpitballinCards hey, Chris, you watch your mouth, lol. every bad box is a scanned box and topps is an angel
@@forpetesake20 😂😂
Try 99.99%
Tree at was actually the true criminals fault. Panini already releases 1 in 40 boxes that return more money than was spent. Now you add this and you can finally do what I’ve been doing since 2012…… BUY SINGLES
Loved the honesty from all 4 of you in this video. Great to have some ambassadors for the hobby that actually care and want things to stay fair. It's a real shame this is even a thing, but now we have an even bigger reason to stick to singles!
💯💯
Thank you for the support! 💪🏼
I got into this hobby at the wrong time. I wish I could get all my money back for all the shady breaks Ive entered and all the hobby boxes I’ve bought. What a joke. This whole hobby is filled with incels.
There are some real POS in the hobby and they hurt it for the rest of us.
Forget boxes and breaks. Just buy the card you want!
Sorry, man. So frustrating!
Scottie is right. So much more valuable to report the facts rather than hype it up and bow to threats.
It’s one of the problems when RUclipsrs with no journalism background cosplay as journalists. (edited to correct a spelling typo)
Jeff here: disappointing for sure
@@Rockpile79 really a big let down
And almost ALL rarely have a story that is newsworthy or original. But because RUclips pays them/cuts a check...they now have to keep up on the news and spin stories to keep those payments roll in.
More importantly this sh*t just takes the fun out of it!
Exactly! The MYSTERY is gone 🙁
Chris here - EXACTLY!
It sure does.
The angel hernandez reference was spot on.... I loved it.
@@David-fv7zg yes! Ty nailed it
T-POTT ON FIRE 🔥
Absolutely love it...preach on Brother..
🙏🙏🙏
@@briansteeler7146 he was on a roll! 💪🏼
@@briansteeler7146 he was FIRED UP!!
@@briansteeler7146 Yes! He was not holding back 💪🏼
Keep ripping!!!!!!! Get those singles for me so I don't have to buy packs.
Chris here - with soaring box prices, Singles have long been the play.
But I'm concerned how many singles will actually surface if most collectors don't trust the boxes.
Ripple effects will be a factor.
Appreciate the knowledge, facts, and passion fellas. Agree, there is ZERO positive impact from scanning wax. It sucks.
Just wanted to say thank you gentleman for speaking on this topic. I hope Topps and panini do something very soon before the hobby looses collectors
It has already lost collectors. Internally they are all scrambling to keep themselves solvent.
Chris here - as this story spreads, people will surely leave the hobby. Packs and boxes are the entry point and now they're corrupted. Its so frustrating,
Great video as always fellas. I totally agree with Ty and his frustration over this issue. I learned a long time ago that a lot of breakers do a lot of shady things behind closed doors. Not all, but many. Always remember, if something can be done that it will be done. Has anyone else ever noticed that large breakers when at shows have some of the nicest high end showcases?? I understand that they buy back cards occasionally but C’mon. It has been right in front of us for at least a decade. I didn’t even mention the card swapping or straight up stealing that some have been caught doing.
On a side note, I can’t wait till I pull my first 1/1 Lead plate out of Flawless…LOL!
Absolutely right on all counts. Pretty disappointing, but something the hobby is definitely going to have to deal with. Thanks for watching!
haven't bought a box since they went up 800% that's probably the biggest problem
Maybe this will start the wax retail price decline??
Prices are absurd, especially if you think the sellers may already know there's nothing good inside
@@Blabbin_Bout_Slabbin never bought retail outside of a pack or 2 for my kid from time to time Retail has always been junk. Hobby is the way to go
There are dishonest people in every instance where money can be made. This problem doesn't affect me as there is no way I can afford it. Topps Chrome jumbo is no longer affordable for me. Don't think they will start scanning blasters.
Chris here - I’m priced out too! Especially when the best cards are probably cheaper than the boxes!
Wouldn’t be surprised if the big time card shops purchase these CT Scanners.
Frankly seems like a no-brainer, right? All that high-end wax sitting there...
Nope, not at all!
@@Blabbin_Bout_Slabbin especially like Dave and Adams, could possibly have a secret hidden room with one in it 🤷🏻♂️
Didn't Whatnot make a promise they were going to pull the Lebron Triple Logoman? And they did... with Backyard.
How about that...
Goldin scanned the iphones last year, damn right they looked at boxes too
🤬
Chris here - I mean, why should we think anything else???
100%. This has been going on since at least 2016.
🤣🤣🤣 T-Pot went from scanning cards to homicide QUICK
😂
There’s only one solution… make cards worthless again.
Between this and the endless stream of junk parallels and junk autos, we are on the way!
No autos, no serial numbers, no short prints. Done. Hobby shrinks 95% overnight. Only true collectors and those who chase genuine scarcity are left.
That's the whole point. "They" don't want nobody making money but "them". 😉
Did you'all catch Shine at the National pull the Kobe/Lebron Dual Auto /10 with inscriptions, .. 1000% that box was scanned and he new what was in there, Brought that box to National to be opened and share the moment.. As far as him saying the other box was tampered with, I feel like hes trying to difflect us in another direction. And that will be the future. Opening boxes at National that have the big hit in it. Its not illegal, Shine jus did it! It was Great! Lol
shine is complete fraud and scammer himself
Chris here - that's really interesting! Would be some massive misdirection. Like McGwire putting Andro in his locker!
@@SpitballinCards 💯🤣🤣🤣🤦♂️inscriptions and jersey numbered. 600k card. What a moment and the crowd goes wild 👏
Chris and T-Pot’s reaction to Scott’s “I’m in my sister’s bedroom in Idaho” comment was fantastic! Because it’s Idaho, it adds another layer to that comment:)
@@TheCollectiveAuthority 😂😂😂
What do you know all the “premium” wax has lost its value right in time for Fanatics takes over. Now the only “good” premium will be the new stuff that they put out bought directly from them or one of their breakers. They take control of the breaking market without having to do a thing AND they devalue all the old wax opening up all that cash to buy their new stuff. I wonder how much of a coincidence this is…..
Chris here - haha and down the rabbit hole we go!! Can it be a coincidence....
This is absolutely disgusting. Maybe the future is buying packs, boxes directly from Panini and or Topps/Fanatics and not buying from “middlemen”. Breakers might have to think of a career change now. Collectors should not be buying into breaks.
As long as the manufacturers can be trusted to distribute equitably without scanning! 🤬
Right - but its tough because so much product is "allocated" to distributors that collectors looking for single boxes dont have a lot of inventory available.
Quick thought to add. This hobby can be very fragile and if breakers and companies who help keep wax alive take a big hit for a long enough period…. We could see some serious correction to the overall hobby. For people who are mainly collectors, most of us would prefer if wax took a huge drop so we could actually rip stuff again. Obviously that’ll make singles go down too
Jeff here: excellent points, this could have some serious repercussions for the hobby as a whole, not just the wax market.
Chris here - I think youre right. When stuff like this happens and scumbags get busted and scams are revealed its bad across the whole hobby. People will leave and stop collecting. We all get hurt.
@@SpitballinCards Thanks for the “I think you’re right”, haven’t heard that in my house in some time. So giddy I may just go buy a box of chrome! We all love to see scumbags get busted but yes, unfortunately everyone will suffer
I hate this but I love seeing TPott get worked up and when he said Angel Hernandez I knew it was going to be good. And agree with TPott, he is correct on the wax and the dirty people who are doing this.
@@timmccray7507 💯💯
Its terrible. Terrible for the hobby. Scammers always looking for ways to scam.
Jeff here: yeah he was rightfully heated!
T-pot was so obviously right in that SCI video. It was so frustrating to watch other people shutting him down. (edited to clarify which video)
Jeff here: in the SCI video he spoke of? Yeah sounds like the rest of his crew was giving him the business 😡
@@Blabbin_Bout_Slabbin Yes, when he was talking with Jeff and the other guy. T-Pot was so obviously right. I edited my original message so it was clear I wasn't talking about this video.
I understand why a large business like that wouldn't want to throw around accusations, but there was no reason to dismiss T-pot's research and claim his reasoning was flawed because he started with a conclusion in mind.
That's just not how logical fallacies or statistical analysis works. It was basically calling any scientific work that ever began with a hypothesis flawed.
Backyard hit the 1/1 Caitlin Clark gold vinyl auto out of the gold packs again today lol crazy
hahahahahaha - thats how stupid they think everybody is. Right as this news is everywhere. Right in our faces.
@@Just.a.Therapist Shocking! 🙄
Man, if tpot leaves SCI, we know it’s because he keeps bringing this thing with byb and the segment on sci. 😂😂😂
Ha! I shouldn't laugh, but you're probably right.
🤣🤣🤣
thank you for this. It is a huge issue! I agree with the takes in this, especially T-Pott’s and Scott’s.
Thanks for watching!
Even if you sold a box as "scanned no hit", that person would just sell it as not scanned for profit. It would be irresponsible.
Sadly, you are right
Jeff here : yep, you’re right. If you scan it, ethically you’d have to then rip it. So why bother scanning? 🤷🏻♂️
Gio said not many boxes went through this process. He’s just guessing and underestimating things. The industrial company is just one of the companies. Plus the machinery is out there and I bet there’s plenty of collectors/opportunist out there with access to this equipment. Who’s to say a huge retailer or wax holder didn’t contract one of these ppl to scan countless boxes in there inventory for days/weeks. Can’t downplay any scenario.
Exactly this!
Yeah, exactly. just assume 90% of older or high end wax has been scanned. I mean, Goldin used a CT Scanner on iphones on their show, right?? Are just to believe they stopped there??
There has been funky stuff going on….T-Pott is on point.
@@DriveForShow Chris here - he frequently os!
@@DriveForShow Jeff here: yes, Ty has a great knack for sniffing out bad actors and bad acts. And he didn’t hold back.
Look, if these guys were getting the 1 of 1’s for every player so to speak that would have to be through a connection at panini, CT scanners couldn’t get you the product hits again & again unless they bought 80-90% of the product & scanned it all, sold off the others (which clearly didn’t happen).. Also, even with the best technology on earth, you couldn’t call your shot on certain products, you might be able to narrow it down but this SCREAMS of having an inside man at Panini or the printer/manufacturer
I agree. The scanning is bad news for the hobby, but I don’t see it as a smoking gun that explains how certain breakers keep getting product hits.
Correct. They have to get the boxes first.
Even Breakers should be nervous. Not only am I pissed with this, as a holder of some wax....but my confidence in jumping in breaks is greatly diminished....even though the places I break with seem trustworthy. It's crazy. It's sad. Getting excited about new releases is basically dead now
Right. Even if your breaker is trustworthy, what about where THEY got the product from?
@Blabbin_Bout_Slabbin I just keep picturing the video of that guy sitting on the floor in Target back in 2012 weighing Bowman Platinum packs trying to find Bryce Harper autos.
You know, a few months ago - a lot of people "seemed trustworthy."
The CT scanning video was a perfectly timed dropped. It's no coincidence it was dropped right before Fanatics Fest in my opinion. I think Fanatics has a perfect opportunity right now to address how they are going to avoid this kind of shit going forward. The hobby NEEDS someone at the top to step up and talk about this. We don't care what Geoff, BYB, CC2, or anyone on that level has to say. They are all lap dogs.
Great point - really hope they step up and address it next weekend.
They could even use this technology to scan scratch-off lottery tickets.
Too hard to do that you would have to get your hands on the tickets then get the shop to scan them for you
From my own perspective this hobby will always be flying by VFR .... in pilots terms its using visual daylight landscape to fly a plane along with some basic instrument reference ....IF you are opening your wallet with wax (flying at night) be prepared to lose it all...For my PC collection its buying already slabbed cards or nothing ~VFR~(I can see the end product ~high end vintage and modern~ and remove the monetary risk of getting it there.)... I certainly understand the thrill of wax but with the LUDICROUS cost and nefarious crap pervasive in the hobby its a waste of time and money. This hobby lacks very basic instruments (crucial to flying) & vital guarantees in most aspects that offer peace of mind ~even with grading most submitters are dumbstruck half the time b/c we all realize the graders are "winging it" too without utilizing the tech required to back up their educated guesses .... Any fiduciary operating in your best interests given the sports collectibles landscape would not recommend buying into the hobby with all its current pitfalls. The problem with guys like Geoff Wilson are they are so heavily invested in the business they are basically in bed with the card producers for better or worse.... IF the card producers destroy the hobby everyone like Geoff is headed for the drain along with them.....And personally, I don't think Geoff is in it for the money ~ I think most of it is?~ he has plenty of discretionary income to blow and enjoys the limelight with big dreams of revolutionizing the hobby.... (btw ~an admirable desire to many) I hope at the end of the day he does revolutionize the hobby... we can all benefit. Either way this hobby has so many hands out with nefarious angles to them its a real minefield. Moderation and caution moving forward.
Excellent take.
Thank you Guys for talking about this, these Breakers should be Banned from selling Products anywhere, that's why I stopped buying into Breaks and just Buy Single cards,Buy what you like and can Afford.
Thanks for watching. And singles seems to continue to be the best way...
But the cards you like!
Someone mentioned backyard breaks in the comments. The RUclipsr gave the eyeballs emoji
And “liked” another comment referring to them…
bit the bullet and watched a backyard break for about an hour or two. they have a huge banner saying “We have Loaded boxes!” and just kept bragging the whole time saying their boxes are where to go.
It doesn’t look like they are keeping it secret and unfortunately a good few hundred people keep watching and buying. 🤷🏽♂️
The best denials are just putting it right in our faces right?? Laughing all the way to the bank
Watching them for 1 sec makes my stomach hurt.
Why can’t Topps put a disclaimer online and all boxes going forward that it’s prohibited to tamper with (or use devices) that could reveal or disclose what’s in the box THEN go after all these pop up companies. There has to be some legal recourse.
Chris here - I'm not exactly when it's officially FRAUD, but selling a box as if it may contain hits when you know for a fact it doesn;t sounds fraudulent.
If you're breaking a case and you know an Elly 1/1 is in there so you contact a buddy and sell him the reds team, then he sells the card and you split the money - that's absolutely fraud. Or at least it feels like it. Dishonest and shitty as hell.
So we'll see what comes if this.
Better yet, a custom wrap that changes color if scanned…
Curious if you e seen images to back up the claim that a CT scanner can read cards.
The issue isn't pop up companies. Look up industrial NDT (non destructive testing). Just about any manufacturing business has the ability to do this. And it takes no time at all. Well at least at my previous employer. We used this on thick metals to find internal cracks, imperfections, hell we could determine if the metal flowed/cooled in the correct direction for manufacturing purposes. So looking at cards wouldn't be difficult with the right equipment and experience. With businesses having expensive equipment and needing to make money, I'd bet there are multiple companies doing this.
@@steveot76 appreciate the info and you’re 100% right. Where there’s an opportunity or gap, it will get exploited or abused. With a few companies recently advertising now, if there was legal disclaimer, all it takes is community whistleblowers so Topps can go after and news will spread of action. Doesn’t solve for it still taking place underground but at least there’s some kind of deterrent. I also agree with some kind of indicator under the plastic wrap as well if scanned.
T-Pott= integrity.
💯💯💯💯
T-Pott's face when Scott said he was in his sister's bedroom.
😂😅
🤣🤣🤣
I agree with Scottie B and T-Pott… I stopped buying hobby boxes a long time ago. A cheap retail box for fun yes. I will never buy boxes now. Also stacking the deck to increase the odds of statistically impossible hits time and time again. Makes me super suspicious. As for not revealing the information, could be a number of legal issues and conflicts of interest. Unfortunately the business of the hobby will have to be regulated. The industry has to crack down on this perhaps call the FBI. This just stinks because integrity is gone and now possible regulation. Horrible outcome
Absolutely, this needs to be stopped. But the damage is done and older wax boxes are near impossible to buy at this point. Who can we trust?!
@@SpitballinCards can't trust anyone. My guess if no one can trust unopened older and high end wax, then those boxes will have to be opened and sold as singles. The temptation is too great not have your boxes CT scanned for mega hits that can bring life changing money. This is just horrible.
I see Phil is conspicuously absent for this episode. The price of wax has skyrocketed even at retail level. I just saw Chrome Megas at $65. I can't justify that price but hobby is even worse. Glad at least I stashed 18 through 22 baseball when it was more affordable. I'll focus more on singles also. Fanatics doesn't care about collectors and frankly neither has Topps or Panini.
Sadly Phil was out of town, but I’m sure he will share his thoughts on his channel or here when he gets back!
It was also my scheduled day off!
Focus on singles ALL DAY!
@@Philmington I was only joking man. Sorry that didn't come across. The CT thing has me concerned too
When I was a kid I'd mow lawns to get 5 bucks and go get 9 packs of cards from the corner store. Today's kids will never know that feeling
And now that much of the mystique is gone, not sure that feeling will be back again 🙁
The only way this could ever be good is if all scans are made public immediately. Then EVERYONE can just know the cards listed in the box. All pristine unopened. Other than that is this the sealed card-pocalypse 😓😓
Sealed Card-pocalypse it is!
This is the biggest issue to date for the hobby, stay on this topic
Agreed - hoping to hear something from Topps
@@user-oo2dh8wd3x thanks for watching, we’ll keep on it!
Didn’t know who Ty was before this show was created but he’s one of my Favs on the show! Put this guy behind a podium immediately! Would also like to hear was Philmington is thinking after the interview lol
Jeff here: Ty is a treasure! And a good guy! 💪
After the national i complained about Ty take. Today i commend him n his fire and anger. This can’t continue. This is the fabric of modern cards to not know what’s inside. There have been lots of speculation over a couple of east coast suppliers and dead boxes. We need the FBI. Thanks guys.
Chris here - yeah Ty was on it tonight! This crap basically breaks the hobby
Jeff here: Thanks for commenting. Yeah, it just ruins the whole idea, doesn't it?
I remember watching a big time/high end collector doing breaks of F1 dynasty cases. Multiple $50k breaks. In those breaks there wasn’t much pulled of value. This person isn’t a “breaker” but is sitting on a ton of wax and has a collection of singles that is mind blowing. He’s all over the hobby. Hanging out and being friends with the biggest people in the hobby. There’s zero doubt in my mind especially now that he didn’t know the contents in these cases.
That room Scott is in looks like it could be in the next Annabelle movie.
🤣 👻
@@bigsmooth7998 💯💯💯
The prices on cases of complete garbage are out of control. Eventually some of these people will stop burning money and figure out that they'd rather build a valuable/desirable collection. You can still get Mahomes RC on card autos for less than cases of 2023 sandwich company NFL garbage, even Brady on card mid-range, really nice autos are in that realm. The NFL market is complete nonsense. There is HUGE opportunity on quality cards. As for this scanning thing - I haven't bought sealed product in nearly a decade. Statistically, it's been a massive losing proposition for a LONG time, magnified exponentially in 2020.
Chris here - I'm right there with you. RIpping is a losing enterprise. It can be fun, but your collection will suffer as that money is wasted.
But here;s my fear - if scanning stops people from ripping, will good singles even hit the market??
@@SpitballinCards I don't think it'll affect breaking new products all that much. I mean, there aren't a lot of private collectors ripping through $12k suitcases of Flawless, or whatever they run these days. The breakers can state that they get their supply directly from Topps/Fanatics/UD and people will still buy into breaks. Heck, it could HELP them.
1st off there hasn't been a level playing field in the hobby for years. Hobby boxes having better product than retail has been around a long time, and now seeing retail demand dwindle is going to be a big problem for the hobby. 2nd the price for participating has gotten away from being a hobby to a rich persons hobby that most of us cannot participate in. I haven't bought boxes for years or packs, primarily I grab singles and affordable slabs at shows or eBay, that has been the state of the hobby for many of us...
👍👍👍
Really appreciate you guys saying what isn’t being said … good on you! You gotta beat these people at their own game tho … I agree with the disruption comment but if you want to really get even … figure out a way to get the CT scan machine to scan a dud card as a big hit. There’s an old saying … don’t get mad, get even. Then from there , there needs to be a legitimate conversation and long term solution to level the playing field for the foreseeable future.
I had to pick up the 'Gold Rush' Lenny Dykstra card from '95 Score that was mentioned a few episodes ago. It's not Angel Hernandes' "rookie" card, but it's his best image not close. Fun fact, Angel Hernandes was first featured by card manufacturer, 'The Star Company', who produced an umpire subset in their 1991 MLB baseball set.
Nice pickup! 💪🏼
Haha - Chris here, I love that card! Great grab! It's some baseball history
Just interesting on much change this will cause immediately in the hobby in all cards
Yes, we’ll see how quickly it trickles through the hobby.
Yes, very interesting to see how long this info takes to trickle through the hobby.
CT Scanning danger > Card Trimming paranoia
Saw that episode T-Pot was on ... stood his ground, atta babes!
We are very proud of T-Pott’s investigative reporting skills! 💪🏼
Funny we are now just catching on to people using 1970s technology to ruin the hobby. Wonder how long it has been really going on for.
I’m scared to wonder too hard
It seems there is fraud in every area of business
Chris here - I hate seeing this so much. There is so much fraud all over this hobby. It's heartbreaking and infuriating!
This is how rebellion starts. Darth Scan has been discovered.
Chris here - yeah topps has to do something in response. We'll have to wait and see.
Great episode folks. What I love the most is how passionate you are about the hobby. Question is, will Topps / Panini do anything about it? In the past both parties shone with ignorance. Only if/ when box sales decrease they will act. I give that a chance of 20-30%. More likely is that the secondary market dries out more because the informed buyer will now about scanning and only buy from the manufacturers directly. The idea to put sth in the box that prevents scanning, could just be an additional layer of metal or metallic bag (you do not want to use lead, though toxic). Pretty sure they will figure that out quickly, if they a willing to do so. Even as I dispise this practice, because you knowingling take advantage of the buyer of your box, it is just taking advantage of technology, as weighing of packs is as well. Where it becomes tricky is that the technology is not available to everyone and results of the scans are not disclosed.
Appreciate the comments and the perspective. Yeah, it will be interesting to see who gets out in front of this.
All autos, numbered cards, patches should be redemption cards print on cardboard. Every hobby box has 3-4 cards that can’t be scanned. All hits should be on cardboard.
Man it would be sad to lose the fun of seeing the autos/hits come out of a pack, but it may be necessary 😢
OOF! More redemptions?! People would be furious, but this might be the only way
The solution is very simple. Buy sealed wax from Fanatics/Topps or a Fanatics verified and trusted breaker on the Fanatics Live platform. Whether people like it or not that is where we are headed I'd venture to say in the next 5 yrs or less.
But how far back can you go?? Can you even fully trust the manufacturers? What's to stop them from scanning before sending to the distributers or preferred breakers?
That;s where I'd start as well but @Blabbin' makes a good point. We don't know who we can trust.
After watching this video, I did a quick internet search and found that radiochromic film changes color when exposed to radiation. Perhaps card companies can stick a small piece of the film, or other commercially available radiation-sensitive film, on the outside of the boxes (and even the inside as well to prevent tampering) as a visual marker to indicate whether the boxes had been CT scanned or not. I’m not a radiologist and my internet search time was a long five minutes, so I’m not sure if the idea is even viable 😅
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T Pott I was annoyed too. Was def bait and switch. I’ve debated unsubscribing from him. I HATE when YTers do this.
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This is just my opinion after returning to the hobby after being away from it for 33 years. But, what did we really expect to happen to this hobby during the height of gambling being offered up everywhere you look? And where there's gambling, there’s going to be degenerate cheaters and people who want to break the rules in their favor. The pandemic brought a lot of gamblers to the hobby when the casino's were shut down and they've hung around... which is fine, but the degerates that tagged along (like this idiot with the scanner) are f'ing it up for everyone else. I have nothing against Breakers but I feel that the practice is EXACTLY what could bring state governments to start classifying it as illegal gambling and give the hobby a black eye. This scanning situation is only going to bring the eyes of regulation to the hobby faster.
Chris here - I'm also not a fan of the level of gambling in the hobby these days and I'm afraid you might very well be right.
I’m no lawyer, but you can’t just say “I can’t be held responsible” if you’re committing a crime right? The lottery ticket metaphor makes the most sense to me. Seems extremely illegal, whether it’s a business or not.
Jeff here: no lawyer either, but it sure seems like there is some legal culpability.
What precise law was broken?
Yeah, you can't just wash your hands of it!! I mean come on!
@@KK-pm7ud Chris here - I'm wondering if there;s an argument for Fraud here. Especially if you sell the boxes knowing theres nothing in them. Or if the breakers know there's a huge 1/1 and they make a deal with a buyer to split the card??
@@SpitballinCards If a person sells a box of cards to someone else and they make no disclosures I cannot think of any issues. It's not like selling a home where there are required disclosures if there is something a seller knows about the home isn't disclosed to the buyer. Now if someone asks the seller if they know if the box was ever scanned by a CT scanner and the seller says that it wasn't never scanned to their knowledge and it can be proven they did in fact know, then I would think there could be a potential case for fraud.
For any collectable to maintain a big following... there has to be new product. Fanatics does not have to sell sealed products... but they have to sell new stuff. Sales of new product spurs on sales of vintage products and singles. Something has to change if the hobby is to continue and not stagnate to death. I can name lots of things that people used to collect and now are no longer made new.... that have plummeted in value and demand. I get also that some people collect for emotional reasons not investment. But when you spend so much money collecting what you like.... you hope to be able to get something back when you sell. The new multi $1,000 products are pretty silly in my opinion.... but they must fill a demand.
Thanks for watching and commenting, a lot to chew on as we see the fallout from this.
Fanatics will have a hard time selling anything higher end if htey can't guarantee consumers the boxes are scan-proof. And that's bad hobby-wide!!
High end products make zero sense to me even before the scanning... If you're going to spend $1,000 or more on a box.... why not just buy the same value card you really want?
Ct scanning has been happening since the 80s, it was primarily used for authentication but I’m pretty sure it’s been used beyond that. There’s a RUclips video that talks about this, and how long it’s been happening.
That’s scary to consider, and now that the technology is getting better and better, almost no packs/boxes are immune.
Chris here - we know were only scratching the surface here.
Another reason buying into breaks is crazy is the prices the customers pay. A breaker who I buy in sometimes just had a Topps monster break that the top 18 spots paid for the entire cost of the product. That left 282 base plus insert/non base spots in total profit minus labor and overhead. Unreal how bad the understanding of value is out there. It was around $6500 worth of product.
Prices are absurd indeed
Here's an example of how atrocious the value of breaking is and this example is from a repack product from Australia's biggest breaker and hobby shop. It's called GEM. They make up 50 boxes with each box containing 6 slabbed cards/booklets, etc. Depending on the sport you either pay $50 or $100 per spot. There are 32 spots for NBA and NFL. Only six of the 32 spots win a card( random break). You have an 18.75 % chance of hitting a card with one spot. Flipped around the true odds for such a bet should be about 4-1.( slightly bettr in fact 4.3-1) If you back a horse at 4-1 with $100 you win $400 instantly. However, with this break you merely get a chance at a card that could still see you lose half your money, break even, have a small win, double your money, or a very small chance to hit one of the chase cards( perhaps 4 out of the 300 cards) which might present between 10X-15X when the true odds of hitting such a card is more like 80-1. In short, breaking offers the worst bang for your gambling buck by a long way. And this is with a repack product done by a reputable business. Sealed wax offers much worse odds and effectively no odds at all if it's been searched/scanned. The moral is that participating in breaks is borderline insanity.
We're to the place in the hobby where we know what we have without ever opening product and we still don't know if a card is a 6 or a 10!!! Welcome newcomers
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Spent so much money with DA Card World in the last few years. 95% of the boxes were 🗑️
DA is a big ct scanner
Chris here - while I'd guess 95% of boxes are garbage, it makes you wonder and be suspicious! Maybe the big bounties were an brilliant distraction!
@@alphaomega9563 I’m a smaller breaker and I’ve always had nice boxes from DA that’s just my experience
Hopefully more information comes out. As T-Pott said, it was a bait and switch on Sports Card Madness’s end. How long does it take for this to impact the market? Last weekend a 2003 ultimate collection box sold for $13.8k on fanatics.
Yeah very disappointing that the promised details were missing.
RIght? We're all waiting. There must've been threats and pressure. I mean if the Scanning company is willing to give out the names of people who are trying to cheat the hobby, the desire to use them probably disappears.
I buy individual cards of what I like. Cheaper than chasing and cheating has been a part of the Hobby for decades. Glad y’all are finally catching up.
If a person doesn't own their own CT Scanner, is it a value proposition to pay someone a decent amount of money to scan your boxes if the boxes only have a "certain" value? In other words, how much does a box have to be worth in order for it to make sense to pay someone to scan your box? If you have a bunch of 2021 Topps Chrome Black baseball boxes worth $140, does it pay to have someone scan your boxes? The other thing about someone scanning your boxes -- how do you know you are getting the same box(es) back? If they found a huge card, wouldn't it be a natural course of action with all the scumbags that are out there these days for them to quickly get on Ebay and buy a similar box and then ship that box to you and keep your box that had the monster hit in it?
All good questions. I think this affects the higher end the most, but depending how many people have access, it WILL work it's way down to some cheaper products. As far as the product swapping, the company that does this provides tamperproof packaging for you to put your stuff in, seal it and sign over the seal. To scan they do NOT need to remove the item from that packaging. So maybe it's secure?
I guess it depends how big the hits would be and how furious you'd be if there was one in a box you sold!
IDK about buying Topps chrome update now thanks to a bounty those 1 of 1 RC patches.
Right?? Everything seems sketchy now. It's sad and frustrating.
Selling a sealed box with a checklist just allows the next guy to sell the box
Good point 🥵
Chris here - sadly, yes. You are correct.
Thanks T-pot, it just reminds me (referring to those guys pulling unrealistic rare $hit and literally calling cards right before they are pulled) makes me think (and yes i know its cliche) but age has taught me...."If it's too good to be true, 99.9% of the time, sadly, it's because is.
Good show fellas.
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Chris needs to be modeling on a digital billboard in Time square. Not on the bottom right square of spitballin cards.
Lol😂
Chris here - I'll try!! hahaha
Love this discussion and the passion you all have denouncing this scummy process.
In a perverse way, can this end up helping the hobby? One of the factors always cited for inflated wax prices is breakers, who have driven up prices. Well, if you can’t trust a case or a box unless you buy it directly off Topps web site, doesn’t that mean fewer people will be willing to trust and buy into breaks? Then the number of breakers begins to dwindle. Wax prices eventually begin to follow suit maybe?
I know this is overly optimistic. And it doesn’t help with the status/value of existing wax. And it doesn’t help your LCS. But, long-term, maybe some good can come of it.
And I really do hope the FBI gets involved. This is no different than insider trading… other than sports cards don’t have robust securities regulations and SEC enforcement. But, fraud is fraud and can still be prosecuted.
Thanks for watching! And the thoughtful, optimistic comment! Anything is possible, so maybe some good will come from it?
Chris here - maybe if enough people learn about this. We have to keep spreading the information around. I'd love to see wax prices come down and if decreasing demand is what does it, so be it.
Great episode gentlemen! IMO Topps needs to lead. They need to condemn this practice and develop a technology that prevents it.This needs to be done immediately @Topps!
Thank you! Agreed, Topps needs to get out in front of this, even if it seems too late.
💯 Absolutely we need to hear from topps quickly with some kind of solution for new higher end products