Edit: Good news! Yawman has dropped the price of the Arrow from $249 to $199, and is refunding $50 to customers who have already purchased the Arrow at its original price! It is also now available for purchase in Canada! I forgot to mention this in the review, but Yawman has worked with Microsoft in order to provide default controller profiles for the Arrow in Microsoft Flight Simulator. However, Xbox is not supported. So you can only use this on PC for MSFS. Yawman also has default binds in other flight sims like Xplane and I believe Infinite Flight for Android; however, DCS does NOT have a default Yawman Arrow profile.
In your opinion, what is the "best" controller for DCS (to potentially pair with a full Virpil setup - mostly if I want to do CPG or something else - or, if I just want to not use my Virpil setup)?
Currently, I'd say the Flydigi Vader 3 Pro. The 6 extra buttons that can be remapped to keyboard keys, mouse buttons, etc are just too valuable for a game like DCS. And remapping isn't limited to just the extra buttons. You can remap ANY button on the controller using the Space Station app
If they fixed the cons you talked about, I can totally see myself buying this instead of a big flight stick. It goes without saying, it needs to be fully working and supported by DCS and how it interacts with controllers.
Just use a normal gamepad it works like s trick with DCS.... Like the only reason I use my old Satac X52 is imertion and tthat's it litterly no advantage to a HOTAS other then that.
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough I know it works, I've flown the Harrier, SU-25 and even the Hind with an xbox controller but you really cannot do smooth controls with it, especially A2A refuel is a b*tch with a controller or I didn't use it for enough time I dunno...
@@Tuuvas Yeah I guess you are right, gotta give it more time and I'd rather fly with something like this product rather than a plain old xbox controller, especially for Harrier since I need 2 precise controls for thrust and thrust vectoring.
Excellent review! I think the loss of the 2nd thumbstick kills it for me more than anything else. The sliders are cool, mixed feelings about the linked triggers, but a 4 way hat instead of a stick is a big loss.
I have been setting this up for Star Citizen and having a fun time with it. I was happy to see they refunded the $50 as I don't think the unit is worth $250 but the fact that it exists and may bring in more products similar to it, it's worth it. I would glad trade one of the pull axes on the bottom for the right thumbstick though. Good overview, enjoyed watching. I'm overall a fan of the product and happy to continue making it work for my needs (wants).
Your description of the buttons is different from my experience. No rattle of the buttons, the left thumb stick fits perfectly and the trim wheel can be used with my thumb on the left stick and my left ring finger on the trim wheel. I am happy with the Yawman. 😀
The rotary wheel is displaying behavior I've seen in rotary dials used on the x55 and the winwing orion 2. Since they are actually 2 inputs that are depressed every click, slow movements act like longer presses and fast movements don't depress the input long enough to have any real effect. It's actually possible to cause sticky inputs by not rotating the dial a full click. I never liked these types of dials and I avoid using them if I can help it.
Hey, I'm looking for a controller for apache CPG. Now with the radar releasing, my dualshock 4 is no longer cutting it because I would have to use two modifiers on R1 and L1 which would get annoying. I have seen the scuf envision controller, which is PC focused and completely rebindable. I was wondering if you know of any alternatives that are cheaper, but also provide more buttons than a standard controller and is rebindable?
The only one that really come to mind is the Flydigi Vader 3 Pro. All buttons/triggers can be remapped to keyboard, mouse, or existing controller buttons thanks to Flydigi's space station app. And on top of that, it has 6 extra buttons. The Vader 3 Pro is hands down the best controller for DCS in my opinion
@@TuuvasAny suggestions on where to buy that controller if you live outside US? on Amazon EU there's only the vader 2 and flydigi doesn't have its own shop page.
@@meldonld Unfortunately I'm not aware of any other options as I only have the US from my perspective. There's other websites like Aliexpress that you might be able to purchase the Vader 3 Pro from, but use those at your own risk.
i would love to pick a gamepad like the sketch you've made. Anyway for 250 i would expect better build quality, wireless, hall effects and a gyro They could have resolved the right stick problems with a gyro, i think there is enough space for that kind of sensor.
My first instinct would be to compare it to a yoke, pedals, autopilot panel, and throttle. It's not expensive at all, by that standard. I'd never use an Xbox controller for a flight sim, so that's not really a suitable comparison. Wouldn't use it for DCS, though, because looking around would be so hard.
Sorry but that price is unambiguously a rip-off... Considering there are recently some more self-made style controller projects now I'm hoping someone in that crowd will make a variant with that kind of axis control. I don't think it should be particularly hard, considering they are probably very simple sliding potentiometers. Using potentiometers in custom controllers is actually pretty easy, so I don't think this is a big hurdle. Even on a quick google, slide potentiometers of that length are cheap and easily available. Maybe I'll have to try it myself :)
They're thinking it's a niche product that will put them out of business if they don't charge enough, maybe? This is a lot more niche than an ordinary HOTAS controller.
I have a Velocity Flight Panel fully kitted out with 8 Logitech FIPS, 2 Radio Stacks, Honeycomb Alpha & Bravo yoke and throttles. Now I crave something more simple. Flying with a well setup controller is way better.
Nice review! Definitely an interesting controller but I probably wouldn’t buy it just because of the price point compared to something like a series x controller lol
Not really, I’ve been using an xbox controller for flight sims for a while now and it works perfectly fine. I can do anything that someone with a HOTAS or yoke could do.
As a controller collector this is a $60 thing compairable to 3rd party Xbox controllers not Elte $200 or Modded $400 controllers as the build quality is simply not there as you said mussy a $200 controller should never be mushy and it really looks cheap... Which is fine my Retro game cube controller I use daily for everything including flight sims is $40... and is higher qaulity infact has you seen the greatness of 8-Bit do who are unbder cutting every one with higher quality stuff? Like you said because it's for a specific task... Why use it though quad thottles and a non tappy yaw? It that worth $140ish upcharge?
technically x-input actually has a limit of 5 axes, 10 buttons, and an 8 way POV. D-input (what Yawman Arrow uses) is limited to 8 axes, 128 buttons, and a full range POV (not sure what "full range" means in this context).
but also.. why this over a regular controller and paying someone 50$ to print you one of the wildly available hotas, or yoke controller kits you can mount to it? Doesn't take up much more space, and still at least 150$ in my pockets before taxes.
Wow. This thing looks like a giant waste of money. Everything that thing does an Xbox controller can do and better. You can set up rotary encoder settings for your joysticks in Steam input with just a simple mode shift.
I don't get it. For 199$ you can buy a cheap or used hotas. Portability is such a minor concern for flight simming, I just don't get it. Am I totally wrong about this? Any Flight-Simmers here that care for portability?
I personally do; however, I see no reason to go for the Yawman over a standard console controller. The biggest benefits (the slider axes) can be emulated through buttons presses or imaginative remappings via Steam. The only reason you would get the Yawman is if you REALLY want legit slider axes.
@@Tuuvas yeah DCS is very axis hungry that even with HOTAS and rudder pedals you have to get creative every now and then. I don't want to imagine doing away with just a two-axis stick and four analog axes.
A lot of people find great success in DCS World with an Xbox controller. It's not an ideal setup, but it is better than nothing when you can't justify paying more money for a HOTAS only to find out you don't like flight sims after all.
@@Tuuvas I am aware of that and I really appreciate your controller layouts you share every now and then but I am personally not a fan of modifiers as they add a layer of complexity. I prefer to have one button/axis do one thing but this is not always feasible.
Edit: Good news! Yawman has dropped the price of the Arrow from $249 to $199, and is refunding $50 to customers who have already purchased the Arrow at its original price! It is also now available for purchase in Canada!
I forgot to mention this in the review, but Yawman has worked with Microsoft in order to provide default controller profiles for the Arrow in Microsoft Flight Simulator. However, Xbox is not supported. So you can only use this on PC for MSFS.
Yawman also has default binds in other flight sims like Xplane and I believe Infinite Flight for Android; however, DCS does NOT have a default Yawman Arrow profile.
In your opinion, what is the "best" controller for DCS (to potentially pair with a full Virpil setup - mostly if I want to do CPG or something else - or, if I just want to not use my Virpil setup)?
Currently, I'd say the Flydigi Vader 3 Pro. The 6 extra buttons that can be remapped to keyboard keys, mouse buttons, etc are just too valuable for a game like DCS. And remapping isn't limited to just the extra buttons. You can remap ANY button on the controller using the Space Station app
If they fixed the cons you talked about, I can totally see myself buying this instead of a big flight stick.
It goes without saying, it needs to be fully working and supported by DCS and how it interacts with controllers.
Just use a normal gamepad it works like s trick with DCS.... Like the only reason I use my old Satac X52 is imertion and tthat's it litterly no advantage to a HOTAS other then that.
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough I know it works, I've flown the Harrier, SU-25 and even the Hind with an xbox controller but you really cannot do smooth controls with it, especially A2A refuel is a b*tch with a controller or I didn't use it for enough time I dunno...
Definitely a practice thing lol. I can do tasks like AAR fine with my controller
@@Tuuvas Yeah I guess you are right, gotta give it more time and I'd rather fly with something like this product rather than a plain old xbox controller, especially for Harrier since I need 2 precise controls for thrust and thrust vectoring.
Excellent review! I think the loss of the 2nd thumbstick kills it for me more than anything else. The sliders are cool, mixed feelings about the linked triggers, but a 4 way hat instead of a stick is a big loss.
I have been setting this up for Star Citizen and having a fun time with it. I was happy to see they refunded the $50 as I don't think the unit is worth $250 but the fact that it exists and may bring in more products similar to it, it's worth it. I would glad trade one of the pull axes on the bottom for the right thumbstick though. Good overview, enjoyed watching. I'm overall a fan of the product and happy to continue making it work for my needs (wants).
Ahhh so this is what you were working on, nice man!
Cheers and thanks for showing up last night!
Your description of the buttons is different from my experience. No rattle of the buttons, the left thumb stick fits perfectly and the trim wheel can be used with my thumb on the left stick and my left ring finger on the trim wheel. I am happy with the Yawman. 😀
Back paddles would have been nice. The one problem is in Ace Combat 7, pressing both triggers at the same time are for high-G turns.
The rotary wheel is displaying behavior I've seen in rotary dials used on the x55 and the winwing orion 2. Since they are actually 2 inputs that are depressed every click, slow movements act like longer presses and fast movements don't depress the input long enough to have any real effect. It's actually possible to cause sticky inputs by not rotating the dial a full click. I never liked these types of dials and I avoid using them if I can help it.
Hey, I'm looking for a controller for apache CPG. Now with the radar releasing, my dualshock 4 is no longer cutting it because I would have to use two modifiers on R1 and L1 which would get annoying. I have seen the scuf envision controller, which is PC focused and completely rebindable. I was wondering if you know of any alternatives that are cheaper, but also provide more buttons than a standard controller and is rebindable?
The only one that really come to mind is the Flydigi Vader 3 Pro. All buttons/triggers can be remapped to keyboard, mouse, or existing controller buttons thanks to Flydigi's space station app. And on top of that, it has 6 extra buttons.
The Vader 3 Pro is hands down the best controller for DCS in my opinion
@@TuuvasAny suggestions on where to buy that controller if you live outside US? on Amazon EU there's only the vader 2 and flydigi doesn't have its own shop page.
@@meldonld Unfortunately I'm not aware of any other options as I only have the US from my perspective. There's other websites like Aliexpress that you might be able to purchase the Vader 3 Pro from, but use those at your own risk.
Just finished settling it up for ATS which was a little challenging but it worked. And yes you still have to some keyboard controls.
i would love to pick a gamepad like the sketch you've made.
Anyway for 250 i would expect better build quality, wireless, hall effects and a gyro
They could have resolved the right stick problems with a gyro, i think there is enough space for that kind of sensor.
My first instinct would be to compare it to a yoke, pedals, autopilot panel, and throttle. It's not expensive at all, by that standard. I'd never use an Xbox controller for a flight sim, so that's not really a suitable comparison.
Wouldn't use it for DCS, though, because looking around would be so hard.
Sorry but that price is unambiguously a rip-off...
Considering there are recently some more self-made style controller projects now I'm hoping someone in that crowd will make a variant with that kind of axis control. I don't think it should be particularly hard, considering they are probably very simple sliding potentiometers. Using potentiometers in custom controllers is actually pretty easy, so I don't think this is a big hurdle. Even on a quick google, slide potentiometers of that length are cheap and easily available. Maybe I'll have to try it myself :)
kinda not surprised by the bad price. what are they thinking when they decided to sell this at a higher price point than... say a VKB Gladiator?
They're thinking it's a niche product that will put them out of business if they don't charge enough, maybe? This is a lot more niche than an ordinary HOTAS controller.
I have a Velocity Flight Panel fully kitted out with 8 Logitech FIPS, 2 Radio Stacks, Honeycomb Alpha & Bravo yoke and throttles. Now I crave something more simple. Flying with a well setup controller is way better.
"Crave" is a good word... There's a saying: "It's not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor". :-)
Nice review! Definitely an interesting controller but I probably wouldn’t buy it just because of the price point compared to something like a series x controller lol
Yeah, but using an Xbox controller for a flight sim is a terrible experience.
Not really, I’ve been using an xbox controller for flight sims for a while now and it works perfectly fine. I can do anything that someone with a HOTAS or yoke could do.
As a controller collector this is a $60 thing compairable to 3rd party Xbox controllers not Elte $200 or Modded $400 controllers as the build quality is simply not there as you said mussy a $200 controller should never be mushy and it really looks cheap... Which is fine my Retro game cube controller I use daily for everything including flight sims is $40... and is higher qaulity infact has you seen the greatness of 8-Bit do who are unbder cutting every one with higher quality stuff? Like you said because it's for a specific task... Why use it though quad thottles and a non tappy yaw? It that worth $140ish upcharge?
Windows has a limit of 8 axes per device, that's why it lacks of second thumbstick. But since they dropped xbox compatibilty they can add 8 way hat.
They should have ditched the push/pull mixture controls and kept the thumbstick imo
that's the limitation of xinput. not necessarily of Windows.
technically x-input actually has a limit of 5 axes, 10 buttons, and an 8 way POV. D-input (what Yawman Arrow uses) is limited to 8 axes, 128 buttons, and a full range POV (not sure what "full range" means in this context).
It looks like it's for flight sims for people who fly often. So piolets would be the target audience.
I love the idea with the sliding axis but this is still entirely too much (even at $199). This is a $70 product all day long, maybe even less
Does it have vibration?
It does not. Only axes and buttons
@@Tuuvas Good. Now I don't have to remember to turn vibration off.
This is a terrible controller, however the step away from traditional controllers is cool
hopefully they can make a v2
Was intrigued by the form of the controller, but wow hard pass, with prejudice.
I got here quick but kinda got disappointed for the price
but also.. why this over a regular controller and paying someone 50$ to print you one of the wildly available hotas, or yoke controller kits you can mount to it?
Doesn't take up much more space, and still at least 150$ in my pockets before taxes.
Wow. This thing looks like a giant waste of money. Everything that thing does an Xbox controller can do and better. You can set up rotary encoder settings for your joysticks in Steam input with just a simple mode shift.
$199 USD gawd damn
I don't get it. For 199$ you can buy a cheap or used hotas. Portability is such a minor concern for flight simming, I just don't get it. Am I totally wrong about this? Any Flight-Simmers here that care for portability?
I personally do; however, I see no reason to go for the Yawman over a standard console controller. The biggest benefits (the slider axes) can be emulated through buttons presses or imaginative remappings via Steam. The only reason you would get the Yawman is if you REALLY want legit slider axes.
@@Tuuvas yeah DCS is very axis hungry that even with HOTAS and rudder pedals you have to get creative every now and then. I don't want to imagine doing away with just a two-axis stick and four analog axes.
@@Tuuvas I don't really understand how so many people can tolerate an Xbox controller. I would quit flight simming if that was the only option.
A lot of people find great success in DCS World with an Xbox controller. It's not an ideal setup, but it is better than nothing when you can't justify paying more money for a HOTAS only to find out you don't like flight sims after all.
@@Tuuvas I am aware of that and I really appreciate your controller layouts you share every now and then but I am personally not a fan of modifiers as they add a layer of complexity. I prefer to have one button/axis do one thing but this is not always feasible.
Too beta testy and too much $ for that experience
beside the fact that is unbearable ugly the price is laughable!!! hard pass!