I recently went to Flight Sim Expo and I was blown away by just how much things can cost - especially for the commercial and general aviation flight sim market! It was nuts! That is what inspired me to finally make this video. Please let me know how you felt about my take on what is "entry-level" for flight sims, and thanks for watching!
3D Pro is a GOAT, thing served me (and still does) so well for last 4-5 years, can genuinely recommend to anyone who looks into starting their virtual pilot career!
#controller gang A-10CII, F-16C block 52. Love doing everything with just my controller, all thanks to Tuuvas! I would have never gotten into DCS if it where not for Tuuvas so once again I thank him for everything he does for us new players.
Same here, Using the Fly Digi myself and with the use of modifiers, the 4 buttons (A,, B, X, Y) are in fact 44 buttons, The only challenge is needing thumb stick extensions to allow for finer tuned stick movements. Even still, I can air to air refuel and land on carriers without them.
I've started with my trusty 3D Pro and I loved it way more than the T16000M I bought later since I hate using modifiers. I feel like the overall quality of the build and materials is way better with this stick. To remove stiction in TWCS throttle, you could untighten the screw at the bottom of the throttle. Some people also recommend to apply some nyogel or even use a mod for a throttle, but those are unavailable in my country so I was unable to try it. Those pedals are also awesome for the rudder, but I've heard they tend to break over time. Not happened to my throttle though. Regarding the headtracking, there are some options like SmoothTrack or AITrack.
my first hotas was/is the tflight hotas x and ive had it for 3 to four years and i do agree, it sucks. although im too broke to buy a better one so i just deal with it but ive gotten good at it even though its hard to do precision things. also yes i can do aerial refueling with it:)
T.16k has a 3d printed upgrade for the throttle that makes it lightyears better. However, this increases the price to over 200$ for the set. That being said, your analysis is spot. The logitech joystick would be a great purchase for someone wanting to get into MSFS/DCS/IL-2 and not breaking the bank.
for the T16000M, I know most players use the butterfly switch behind the Throttle instead of twisting the joystick. You should give it a try flying helicopters using that input!
I'm still using my 20-years-old Logitech Attack 3. I wish I had ANY deadzone at all lol. Poor thing just acts like I'm putting the stick 50% of the way from the slightest touches to it. The best part - it doesn't even hold the center. Whatever poor aviageek souls would to to enjoy DCS :)
Would be nicer to see how the Hotas 4 performed on the other tests too. Its the only one i can afford now (at least i’m happy its not as bad as the X) xD About the part you say having to buy a webcam being an adicional expense, you can actually use the camera on the phone using a free app like CAMO, and it works very well on opentracker I compared my logitech c920 and my phone and both performed the same. Most people will have a phone with camera nowadays, and the opentracker do well even with low resolution. The bigger cost in this scenario would be a clip to hold the phone over the monitor or a tripod.
The HOTAS 4 performed the same as the X when it came to all other tests. They're exactly the same buttons wise, so really, only precision control tasks are affected by the upgrade from a HOTAS X to HOTAS 4. And yeah, if you already own a phone you can use that as a webcam as well which will enable you to use things like Open Track for face tracking. But at that point I'm no longer talking about only the HOTAS. It's also a phone, or a webcam, and at that point should I start talking about VR? rudder pedals? etc. I just needed to draw a line there.
Really interesting budget comparison. The HOTAS X indeed has larger built in dead zones than the newer HOTAS 4 and HOTAS One (which are both are a bit more expensive). I gather the 3D Pro + TWCS might be a better HOTAS combo than the all Thrustmaster T.16000M + TWCS, would you agree? I’m really curious if you are going to follow this up with the T.16000M FCS’s direct competitor; the Logitech X52 and X52 Pro. They are generally no longer recommended vs the the T.16000M HOTAS or VKB Gladiator, but they are very much in the same boat as the Thrustmaster mid-range HOTAS in terms of price vs features. The X52 variants have lighter centering springs than the T.16000M stick, which may help with hovering, forward flight and refueling. Plus an arcing throttle with little to no stiction. Note that the X52 and X52 Pro are not the same in this area. The X52 Pro uses 2 collineair centering springs vs the one on the X52, making it slightly smoother when pushing the axis off center (a less noticeable center bump). It also has magnetic X- and Y-axis sensors with a higher resolution compared to the X52.
Regarding the x52 and x52 Pro, I likely won't be covering these. These entry-level devices (except the T16000M) were cheap enough to just pick up myself and do this comparison. I simply cannot justify spending $200+ USD on mid-level devices for doing a similar comparison... unless I manage to return them in time. But that's kinda sleezy imo, and I'd want more time to properly test them all before making a video. That said, what I WOULD like to do is contact VKB, WinWing, and VirPil for their line-up of cheaper devices to see if they'd be willing to send me a review unit. I would like to put the VKB Gladiator NXT Premium, WinWing Ursa Minor Fighter, and VirPil Cadet Series Aeromax all up against one another in a similar comparison video. But of course, also individual review videos in addition to that.
deactivate the Twist-axis on the 16000. I have that Stick and it has a questionable Performance. I only have the Gazelle as chopper ... after the FM-Change it was a nightmare....i got better with the Xbox-Controller. is it possible to get a video with more detailed usage of the BigBig Won Addon?
Ok so I got my gamesir t4k today Its xbox style controller 1:1 But you can turn on dualshock mode and now its dualshock/sense in steam SO you get GYRO it also can do nintendo mode - but nintendo dosn't believe in analoge triggers so that's useless for flight simming no touchpad BUT its got like backside buttons idk what to call them that get picked up as touchpad presses in steam so you can bind them to things that way you should get one - using gyro to mouse to look around is soooo much better than using the stick (I actually use right stick to slide camera now) so you get basically everything from headtracking without the hassle and way better its way nicer than both the xbox controller and the dualshock in terms of just buttons and gyro quality too hall effect sticks and triggers - zero drift zero deadzones I think its 1000mhz instead of potato input latency for stock controllers amazing no idea how you missed it bro its like the #1 controller recomendation in the gyro community I have a shared controller scheme on steam for this (gyro controllers)
I'd say, IF you're planning on mostly flying the F-16, the X56 is nearly 1:1 with the real hotas. However the quality is subpar. It's function over quality.
I actually know what I'm talking about unlike tuvu dualshock is the best controller the vkb glad is the best stick hands down - wins performance per dollar the vkb glad has a working rudder unlike everything cheaper, it also has throttle sliders vkb glad also will last you ten years and you will have no reason to upgrade from it
Since Ace Combat 7 has released on Nintendo Switch, are there any joystick from there that compatible with Nintendo Switch? either with Mayflash Magic NS Anyone have tried it?
i've been using xbox elite controller since the first tutorial from tuuvas about dcs on controller, i can't even go back to my t.flight hotas 4 anymore now hte controller i just that versatile
The cheapest VKB stick is just better pure value that the rest. You get a working rudder and throttles, etc. etc. the rest just don't have, or don't have working properly. Also dualshock is better than xbox controller. Kinda starting to think you don't really know what your talking about m8
oh boy... so first off, VKB Gladiator NXT EVO Premium costs as much as the T16000M FCS HOTAS by itself. I wouldn't call that entry-level. Hell, I was hard-pressed to even include the T16000M HOTAS at all in this review. As for dualshock... technologically speaking, yes. It's a better controller than Xbox as it has way more features in the form of a gyro and trackpad. But the symmetrical thumbstick layout is trash. The best controller for the thumbstick layout is actually the Wii U Pro controller.
@@Tuuvas Yea but the vkb glad has a working rudder. And the throttle sliders, and far more top buttons. Controller < vkb glad Not really a reason to use anything in between, just creating waste. You didn't really explain why someone would buy a bad stick, and I don't think you could they just don't offer anything extra. Thumb stick layout is subjective. But considering how sony controllers outsell xbox controlls maybe not.
This is a copy pasta from something i wrote on another video, just note i think you already answered my question with the Logitech stick. i didnt know you could get them so cheap, and be okish..: ------- Copy paste ----- Hey there, sorry for asking the endless question: "what to buy in my situation", but i am really lost, and i have a bad habbit of buying wrong and need to buy again. First of, i am 47 from Denmark, i had 5 Brain surgeries that did alot of bad stuff to me.. i lost hearing on left ear, cant use left eye and all my left side feels a bit off, and something happend to my sleep center so i never feel rested, i am tired 24/7.. Only reason i say this, is because i like to try microsoft flight simulator 2020/2024 but i like to play the game with alot of help. i was told that you can play microsoft flight simulator in more modes or something, i understand this as there are a very realistic sim mode, and more or less an Arcade mode, where you get some help with things like landing and that. If this is the case, i was hoping i could play using only a flight stick, and no other things, and if so, what would be a good one for a "flightstick only" setup ? i dont mind paying for more if that is needed or a huge upgrade, but i would like to pay less then 300 euro's if possible. I used to play some flying sims back in the days where the Graphic were so bad that only take off and landing was fun, but i was thinking it would be amazing to fly around in games today where things look so much more real.. I got an i5 12600k and a 4070ti and tons of nvme ssd's, i guess that is ok for 1080p gaming, i just need the damn flight stick :D Any help would be amazing, i read you dont need the "padels" if you get a stick that can twist, so i guess that is something it need to have. else i have no clue.. :S - Michael PS. I would like to be able to fly all types of "machines" in the game, but since i never played the game, i dont know what i would like the most. ------- Copy paste End----- Last thing, do MS Flight sim or any other sims even have an easy mode for new "players" ? or do you need to learn ALOT to even get in the air ? :D i dont think i have the evergy to learn 9000 buttons in one go. BTW. Amazing video, thx.
I recently went to Flight Sim Expo and I was blown away by just how much things can cost - especially for the commercial and general aviation flight sim market! It was nuts! That is what inspired me to finally make this video. Please let me know how you felt about my take on what is "entry-level" for flight sims, and thanks for watching!
3D Pro is a GOAT, thing served me (and still does) so well for last 4-5 years, can genuinely recommend to anyone who looks into starting their virtual pilot career!
Got two of 'em in 2015 for Elite Dangerous. Still going strong. Will definitely get another pair if they give out.
Controller gang
#controller gang A-10CII, F-16C block 52. Love doing everything with just my controller, all thanks to Tuuvas! I would have never gotten into DCS if it where not for Tuuvas so once again I thank him for everything he does for us new players.
Same here, Using the Fly Digi myself and with the use of modifiers, the 4 buttons (A,, B, X, Y) are in fact 44 buttons, The only challenge is needing thumb stick extensions to allow for finer tuned stick movements. Even still, I can air to air refuel and land on carriers without them.
@@FJFuentesCO he’ll ya man #controller squad
Best part about 1 minute on the timeline 😂 cracked me up!
As a newbie for Hotas set up, and on a tight budget, I got the Logitech 3D combo with the Thrustmaster TWCS throttle and I am happy with it.
I've started with my trusty 3D Pro and I loved it way more than the T16000M I bought later since I hate using modifiers. I feel like the overall quality of the build and materials is way better with this stick. To remove stiction in TWCS throttle, you could untighten the screw at the bottom of the throttle. Some people also recommend to apply some nyogel or even use a mod for a throttle, but those are unavailable in my country so I was unable to try it. Those pedals are also awesome for the rudder, but I've heard they tend to break over time. Not happened to my throttle though.
Regarding the headtracking, there are some options like SmoothTrack or AITrack.
just use opentrack - grass monkey simulations sells a great unit
Gamepad bias!!!! :) Great video, thanks!
u can untighten the throttle when u push it to the top and then u see a screw that u untighten abit so its smoother
my first hotas was/is the tflight hotas x and ive had it for 3 to four years and i do agree, it sucks. although im too broke to buy a better one so i just deal with it but ive gotten good at it even though its hard to do precision things. also yes i can do aerial refueling with it:)
And just like that, you are officially a god lol
I would be interested in 3D pro button layouts for the more popular modules. Seeing how you setup the modifiers would give me a good starting point.
T.16k has a 3d printed upgrade for the throttle that makes it lightyears better. However, this increases the price to over 200$ for the set. That being said, your analysis is spot. The logitech joystick would be a great purchase for someone wanting to get into MSFS/DCS/IL-2 and not breaking the bank.
I used some very lightweight silicone lubricant on the rails in the t16000m throttle and it fixed the sticking.
I've been using a Logitech G Extreme for flight and an XBox controller for slewing my Mavericks cam with my left hand in the F-4E.
for the T16000M, I know most players use the butterfly switch behind the Throttle instead of twisting the joystick. You should give it a try flying helicopters using that input!
yea cause the rudder is busted on the stick
just get the vkb glad instead of the t16 combo
I'm still using my 20-years-old Logitech Attack 3. I wish I had ANY deadzone at all lol. Poor thing just acts like I'm putting the stick 50% of the way from the slightest touches to it. The best part - it doesn't even hold the center.
Whatever poor aviageek souls would to to enjoy DCS :)
8:50 that truck did a cleaaaaaaaaaaaan 180.
Would be nicer to see how the Hotas 4 performed on the other tests too. Its the only one i can afford now (at least i’m happy its not as bad as the X) xD
About the part you say having to buy a webcam being an adicional expense, you can actually use the camera on the phone using a free app like CAMO, and it works very well on opentracker
I compared my logitech c920 and my phone and both performed the same.
Most people will have a phone with camera nowadays, and the opentracker do well even with low resolution. The bigger cost in this scenario would be a clip to hold the phone over the monitor or a tripod.
The HOTAS 4 performed the same as the X when it came to all other tests. They're exactly the same buttons wise, so really, only precision control tasks are affected by the upgrade from a HOTAS X to HOTAS 4.
And yeah, if you already own a phone you can use that as a webcam as well which will enable you to use things like Open Track for face tracking. But at that point I'm no longer talking about only the HOTAS. It's also a phone, or a webcam, and at that point should I start talking about VR? rudder pedals? etc. I just needed to draw a line there.
Really interesting budget comparison.
The HOTAS X indeed has larger built in dead zones than the newer HOTAS 4 and HOTAS One (which are both are a bit more expensive).
I gather the 3D Pro + TWCS might be a better HOTAS combo than the all Thrustmaster T.16000M + TWCS, would you agree?
I’m really curious if you are going to follow this up with the T.16000M FCS’s direct competitor; the Logitech X52 and X52 Pro.
They are generally no longer recommended vs the the T.16000M HOTAS or VKB Gladiator, but they are very much in the same boat as the Thrustmaster mid-range HOTAS in terms of price vs features.
The X52 variants have lighter centering springs than the T.16000M stick, which may help with hovering, forward flight and refueling. Plus an arcing throttle with little to no stiction.
Note that the X52 and X52 Pro are not the same in this area.
The X52 Pro uses 2 collineair centering springs vs the one on the X52, making it slightly smoother when pushing the axis off center (a less noticeable center bump). It also has magnetic X- and Y-axis sensors with a higher resolution compared to the X52.
Regarding the x52 and x52 Pro, I likely won't be covering these. These entry-level devices (except the T16000M) were cheap enough to just pick up myself and do this comparison. I simply cannot justify spending $200+ USD on mid-level devices for doing a similar comparison... unless I manage to return them in time. But that's kinda sleezy imo, and I'd want more time to properly test them all before making a video.
That said, what I WOULD like to do is contact VKB, WinWing, and VirPil for their line-up of cheaper devices to see if they'd be willing to send me a review unit. I would like to put the VKB Gladiator NXT Premium, WinWing Ursa Minor Fighter, and VirPil Cadet Series Aeromax all up against one another in a similar comparison video. But of course, also individual review videos in addition to that.
t16 rudder is trash
vkb (glad) wins
You missed 1 budget hotas PXN 2119 Pro. Probably not so available in your region but that thing is not bad
I have definitely been told about that one at least a few times, but only just recently. I might cover it in a future video though!
deactivate the Twist-axis on the 16000. I have that Stick and it has a questionable Performance. I only have the Gazelle as chopper ... after the FM-Change it was a nightmare....i got better with the Xbox-Controller. is it possible to get a video with more detailed usage of the BigBig Won Addon?
yea rudder on t16 is busted
Ok so I got my gamesir t4k today
Its xbox style controller 1:1
But you can turn on dualshock mode and now its dualshock/sense in steam SO you get GYRO
it also can do nintendo mode - but nintendo dosn't believe in analoge triggers so that's useless for flight simming
no touchpad BUT its got like backside buttons idk what to call them that get picked up as touchpad presses in steam so you can bind them to things that way
you should get one - using gyro to mouse to look around is soooo much better than using the stick (I actually use right stick to slide camera now) so you get basically everything from headtracking without the hassle and way better
its way nicer than both the xbox controller and the dualshock in terms of just buttons and gyro quality too
hall effect sticks and triggers - zero drift zero deadzones
I think its 1000mhz instead of potato input latency for stock controllers
amazing no idea how you missed it bro its like the #1 controller recomendation in the gyro community
I have a shared controller scheme on steam for this (gyro controllers)
No joke I use a PS4 controller to play DCS. I think my first joystick is gonna be the Logitech X56 but is it any good? Can recommend it?
get a vkb stick
I'd say, IF you're planning on mostly flying the F-16, the X56 is nearly 1:1 with the real hotas. However the quality is subpar. It's function over quality.
I actually know what I'm talking about unlike tuvu
dualshock is the best controller
the vkb glad is the best stick hands down - wins performance per dollar
the vkb glad has a working rudder unlike everything cheaper, it also has throttle sliders
vkb glad also will last you ten years and you will have no reason to upgrade from it
VKB has a lot of good cheap stuff. Especially considering the market :)
Since Ace Combat 7 has released on Nintendo Switch, are there any joystick from there that compatible with Nintendo Switch? either with Mayflash Magic NS
Anyone have tried it?
Dualshocked
i've been using xbox elite controller since the first tutorial from tuuvas about dcs on controller, i can't even go back to my t.flight hotas 4 anymore now hte controller i just that versatile
dualshock with gyro for headtracking wins
The cheapest VKB stick is just better pure value that the rest. You get a working rudder and throttles, etc. etc. the rest just don't have, or don't have working properly.
Also dualshock is better than xbox controller.
Kinda starting to think you don't really know what your talking about m8
oh boy... so first off, VKB Gladiator NXT EVO Premium costs as much as the T16000M FCS HOTAS by itself. I wouldn't call that entry-level. Hell, I was hard-pressed to even include the T16000M HOTAS at all in this review.
As for dualshock... technologically speaking, yes. It's a better controller than Xbox as it has way more features in the form of a gyro and trackpad. But the symmetrical thumbstick layout is trash. The best controller for the thumbstick layout is actually the Wii U Pro controller.
@@Tuuvas Yea but the vkb glad has a working rudder. And the throttle sliders, and far more top buttons.
Controller < vkb glad
Not really a reason to use anything in between, just creating waste.
You didn't really explain why someone would buy a bad stick, and I don't think you could they just don't offer anything extra.
Thumb stick layout is subjective.
But considering how sony controllers outsell xbox controlls maybe not.
This is a copy pasta from something i wrote on another video, just note i think you already answered my question with the Logitech stick. i didnt know you could get them so cheap, and be okish..:
------- Copy paste -----
Hey there, sorry for asking the endless question: "what to buy in my situation", but i am really lost, and i have a bad habbit of buying wrong and need to buy again.
First of, i am 47 from Denmark, i had 5 Brain surgeries that did alot of bad stuff to me.. i lost hearing on left ear, cant use left eye and all my left side feels a bit off, and something happend to my sleep center so i never feel rested, i am tired 24/7.. Only reason i say this, is because i like to try microsoft flight simulator 2020/2024 but i like to play the game with alot of help. i was told that you can play microsoft flight simulator in more modes or something, i understand this as there are a very realistic sim mode, and more or less an Arcade mode, where you get some help with things like landing and that.
If this is the case, i was hoping i could play using only a flight stick, and no other things, and if so, what would be a good one for a "flightstick only" setup ? i dont mind paying for more if that is needed or a huge upgrade, but i would like to pay less then 300 euro's if possible.
I used to play some flying sims back in the days where the Graphic were so bad that only take off and landing was fun, but i was thinking it would be amazing to fly around in games today where things look so much more real.. I got an i5 12600k and a 4070ti and tons of nvme ssd's, i guess that is ok for 1080p gaming, i just need the damn flight stick :D
Any help would be amazing, i read you dont need the "padels" if you get a stick that can twist, so i guess that is something it need to have. else i have no clue.. :S
- Michael
PS. I would like to be able to fly all types of "machines" in the game, but since i never played the game, i dont know what i would like the most.
------- Copy paste End-----
Last thing, do MS Flight sim or any other sims even have an easy mode for new "players" ? or do you need to learn ALOT to even get in the air ? :D i dont think i have the evergy to learn 9000 buttons in one go.
BTW. Amazing video, thx.
Ayo watch your insta dm immediately
Need help