CAN YOU DO A FAMILY TREE OF BOB MARLEY FAMILY HE HAS FAMILY ON HIS FATHER SIDE WHO IS A WHITE JAMAICAN OF ENGLISH DECENT AND MOTHER A BLACK JAMAICAN OF AKAN ASHANTI GAHANIAN DECENT PLEASE GET THIS MESSAGE PLEASE
The family tree of the Eldar is more like a spider web. Elrond is very special because he’s connected with Vanyer, Noldor, Teleri, Maier, and all three houses of men. It would be fun to trace all those lines.
Three notes: First: the hobbits of the Lord of the Rings are mostly fallohides (Tooks) and stoors (Brandybucks). The Harfoots are the basis of "the hobbit commoner." Perhaps Sam Gamgee is the typical Harfoot. Secondly: the two trees were made by Yavanna, who is a valar, not by the elves. Thirdly: dunadan/dunedain is just Elvish for "man/men of the West". It doesn't refer to the Numenoreans, it refers to the original humans who were friends of the Elves in Beleriand. Those friends were granted the island of Numenor to live nearer the lands of Valar.
Dúnedain is sinonymous of Numenorean, the Men of the Beleriand were the Edain, ancestors of the Numenoreans that were gifted by the Valar with the western land of Númenor
to add its said that the tree human houses (Edain) are the only humans but that is not true they are the only human houses who moved to the west to the lands of the elves the other humans where mainly corrupted by morgoth, and later become the inhabitans of mordor, harad, and the other countries.
Harfoot might seem like the basis for Harfoots are the most populous of the three groups, it is said they have darker skin then other Hobbits and they were the first to reach the Shire, but it also says Harfoots are closer relations to Dwarves then Fallohides and Stoors who are closer relations to Humans. Bilbo, Frodo, Pippin and Merry are Fallohides, Sam is a Harfoot, and Smeagol/Gollum is a Stoor.
The 3 types of hobbits have mostly merged into one by the late 3rd age. There are some families that have particularly strong remnants of their heritage, but most if not all families have some blood from all the types of hobbit. Like the adventurous traits shared by Bilbo and Frodo from their Took family heritage. Smeagol is more than likely the only fully Stoor hobbit alive by the time of The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings.
@@somebodykares1 No Hobbits are related to Dwarves. Hobbits are decended from men, and are considered among the 2nd Children of Illuvatar. The Harfoots had more contact with the Dwarves in their earlier days, but they are not at all related.
I found Rings of Power very frustrating, especially at the start when Galadriel was treated as some junior officer, instead of the daughter of the high king of the Noldor in the west, the aunt of Gil-Galad, and acknowledged to be among the most powerful and wise of the first-born, and Elrond was excluded from council because he wasn't an elf-lord lol. I guess the writers must have thought 'we have to give them an arc'. I'm also pretty sure that the name Durin didn't follow one after the next but was given to those seen as a reincarnation of Durin I. Might seem a bit nitpicky but to a tolkien nerd, accuracy is all.
True, this rubbed me the wrong way too. I can forgive a lot of inaccuracies, but this one changed her nature and history just too much. It would have been better to make her another character entirely, but of course they are trying to get LOTR people to watch (not just Tolkien nerds like me).
I can forgive Durin as they condensed several hundred years of lore into one season (and so needed both alive to represent the conflict the later acceptance). But Galadriel should have been shown as in competition with the king, rather than suffering insubordination. (Again, for scale, Numinor occupied the Southlands for 200 years before the Doom)
Actually at the time neither Galadriel or Elrond was considered to be one of the "wise". There were far more ancient and powerful elves still alive in Middle Earth. Furthermore neither was much interested in such things at the time. From what I've gathered about Galadriel, she traveled a lot at that time. Meanwhile Elrond was YOUNG in the 2nd AGE, and youth isn't valued for their opinions in such a society. You're thinking of them as they appear in the 3rd AGE when THEY were now the OLDEST and Wisest Elves left. The reason for that, was that the others were by then mostly dead by the late 3rd AGE.
@@jimthain8777 lol, um, no. Galadriel in Valinor was described by Tolkien as physically equal to any of the princes of the Noldor and more skilled than any save Feanor, but she was wiser than he. She was one of the leaders of the rebellion against the Valar, although she almost repented after the kinslaying. By the the time of the 2nd age when the rings of power are set, there are no others left in middle-earth that even come close to Galadriels heritage. As for Elrond, yes he was born at the end of the 1st age, but through him flows the blood of Melian and Thingol, Luthien and Beren, Idril and Tuor, and not least Earendil and Elwing. These are the greatest names and heroes of Elves, Men and Maia of the 1st age, and to suggest that would carry no weight is a bit ridiculous.
Think Melian should have been mentioned in more detail. A maiar who married and had a child and whose bloodline stretches into Elrond's and into the Numenorians. And the one who taught Galadriel magic.
Tolkien never really delved that deep into the implications of being "half Maiar". It didn't seem to make the offspring any more than an elf. What if Melian had married a mortal man? I guess whatever physical form the Maiar chooses is the decisive factor.
I think you definitely should move Gil-Galad to being Orodreth's son, NOT Fingon's. You see, Fingon was the High-King of the Noldor and when he died the title passed to Turgon, his brother, not to Gil-Galad (which it should have been IF Gil-Galad were Fingon's son). Gil-Galad became High-King basically because when Turgon (the then High-King) died at the Siege of Gondolin all his cousins who could claim the title were dead at this point.
While Gil-galad could be switched to Orodreth's son, the High Kingship passed to the eldest eligible male of the House. That was Turgon, after the death of Fingon.
@@rursus8354 Christopher said he made a mistake putting him as Fingon’s son in the Silmarillion. He wrote/published all versions. JRR never published a book himself with a definitive answer.
I always thought of the silmarilliion as the equivalent to the Bible for Tolkien's world, with a musical theory of the genesis and stories about mythical characters. I'd be really interested in your opinion on this, particularly in regards of your Ph.D in theology.
Tolkien was one of the greatest 20th century writers of English language Christian apologetics And the competition, Chesterton, Lewis, Belloc, Waugh, O’Conner, et al, was very good.
I would like to see more attention to Elrond throughout the creation of Arnor/Gondor/Rangers. He fosters the descendants of Isildur at Rivendell, preparing them for their future roles in the governance of Middle Earth. It must be heartbreaking for him to see them grow up, as centuries go by for him. Aragorn was over eighty when he was crowned King. They live such long lives, but compared to Elrond, it’s a drop in the bucket. Now I’m sad thinking of Elrond having to watch Durin and Disa die. Dangit.
The Tooks, Brandybucks,and Baggins are the aristocracy of The Shire. The Tooks family head is the Thain of the Shire and commander of the Hobbitry at arms, The Brandybuck family head is the Master of Buckland. The Baggins are upper class Aristocracy who don't have any adventures(except for Bilbo and Frodo).
I don't know I'm just seeing this, I've been waiting for these videos for so long and they have been up for over a year... How did I miss it... Thanks so much
You did a very competent job, Matt, with a simplified Middle-earth family tree. As I said somewhere in a reply to someone else, there are no real errors. Just some weirdness with pronunciations. But for completeness sake, let me list what I noticed. Most noticeable I found the amount of stresses mislaid (using capitals only to indicate stress): gil-GAlad oRODreth celeBRÍan TEleri tar-paLANtir ar-PHArazôn iSILdur ARTHedain. As to ‘VAlar’, you mainly put the stress correctly on the first syllable, except at the very first mention. In ‘Dúnedain’, the stress is correctly where it should also be in ‘Arthedain’, but the -ai- should be pronouced ‘aye’ as you correctly do in ‘Arthedain’. It’s the same ‘edain’ in both cases. The intrusive m in ‘Cele·m·brimbor’ has already been mentioned; and also the missing r from ‘Arago··n’, where you have confirmed my suspicion that familiarity with the Spanish kingdom interfered. You’re not the only one! Actually, all r’s in the names in this chart should be trilled (although the Dwarves would have pronouned ‘Durin’ with an uvular r). A few acute accents have been dropped: Celebrían Númenor Fíriel. The acute actually changes the word, which maybe appreciated when it is realised that ‘Celebrian’ actually is stressed ‘ceLEbrian’, but that is not the name of Elrond’s wife. I think you lost an opportunity to give the good example for ‘Noldor’, ‘Vanyar’, ‘Ainur’, ‘Valar’, ‘Maiar’, and similar Quenya words, and also ‘Teleri’ (and ‘Istari’). Namely that these are plurals, and commonly abused on the internet as singulars. I was hoping you would have called Indis ‘a Vanya’ and Lúthien ‘a Teler’, but you didn’t. Instead you used a construction that has spread over the fandom over the last decade, especially on the ’net: using the plural names of the Kindreds in apposition: ‘a Vanyar Elf’ and ‘a Teleri Elf’. Tolkien, however, never used this form of speech, he wrote, and would have said: ‘a Vanyarin Elf’ and ‘a Telerin Elf’, using the derived adjectives. And finally the problem of Gil-galad. You explained that well, I think. But in the chart it has ended up looking a bit weird. Normally, charts compiled by fans give either the situation as it is in ‹The Silmarillion›: Gil-galad as son of Fingon, and Orodreth as the son of Finarfin and brother of Finrod, Angrod, (Aegnor) and Galadriel; or as it is in ‹The Peoples of Middle-earth›: Gil-galad as son of Orodreth and Orodreth as son of Angrod. But your chart got stuck halfway in between. Now, when Christopher Tolkien stated (in ‹The War of the Jewels› and ‹The Peoples of Middle-earth›) that it had been a mistake to settle Gil-galad as son of Fingon in editing ‹The Silmarillion›, he also wrote (in ‹The Peoples of Middle-earth›) that he should have left Gil-galad’s parentage open. His problem in giving Gil-galad as son of Orodreth was that his father had done so with Orodreth also son of Angrod. And while Tolkien ‹père› had indicated where Gil-galad as son of Fingon and as son of Orodreth respectively could be inserted into the narrative, Orodreth was one of the four sons of Finarfin in every version of the narrative. Thus making him son of Angrod would necessitate changes to the narrative that were not in evidence, and Christopher was wary of making such changes off his own bat. (Guy Gavriel Kay had persuaded him to do so in the case of ‘The Ruin of Doriath’, and in the same two volumes of ‹The History of Middle-earth› Christopher writes that in hindsight he regretted having done so.) So it is a bit weird to see in your chart the change (for Orodreth) that Christopher Tolkien felt he could not incorporate in the published ‹Silmarillion›, but not the change (for Gil-galad) that Christopher felt he should have incorporated, but could not as he could not do so without also incorporating the other change. That state of the chart neither represents the originally published version nor the one that ideally should have been.
I haven't seen the show or any of the movies and haven't read any of the books over 20 years, but yet still knew most of this. Tolkein is one of my top 4 authors so I've read the books many times long ago.
I think the character you're referring to as Gandalf in The Rings of Power is not him actually, but a different istar (unless the showrunners confused the Second and Third ages). As far as I remember, Galdalf only arrived to Middle Earth in the Third Age, while season 1 events are in the Second Age. I might be wrong of course :)
It is Gandalf, in the last episode they basically confirmed it. The show hasn’t been particularly faithful to the source material so far, so why would they start now?.
You should note that Humans are not limited to the three houses shown, which are just the three human peoples that first entered Beleriand in the first age and went on to become the "blessed" Numenoreans. But also, they are not the majority of mankind (or the majority of characters in the show, even)
I do actually think we meet way more humans in ROP in Numenor then we ever meet in the Southlands. There are no other humans. But it’s true most humans aren’t from the 3 Houses, and most of the 3 houses entirely move to Numenor at the start of the 2nd age.
For one..I'm very grateful for the "simple" version this tree.The more expanded tree is extremely complicated to say the least Secondly.. you hit that Gandalf appears in RoP.. Well, that still a hot debate, and won't be settled until later, if all. And third. I miss a slightly expanded Harfoot line, forking into the Shire folk on one prong and Gollum on the other. And perhaps extending Durin into where Gimli and Thorin is on the tree.
Fantastic Tree! I love the new series and am a huge fan of it since the first movie release 21 years ago. Thank you for this amazing information. Intense stuff
The way you pronounced Isildur made me think you were talking about a completely different character for a second. I was like "who the hell is that?" then realized 😅
Glad I wasn't the only one. OK, let's all gather our frustrations here, and exhale...then remember that this is an awesome chart and tree and presentation, and we can overlook them. All together now: "Thank you Useful Charts!"
For a 14-minute summary, not bad! I love the works of Tolkien. I find the latest shows to be just okay (I have a stronger dislike for the Hobbit movies). I strongly disagree with some of the choices the writers made, while some I find interesting. It’s an adaptation, so I don’t expect a lot from it. What’s most disappointing is the product we get when we consider the cost. Something so expensive to make should be the best show ever. It’s not that, and so it feels like a waste.
I agree, but I actually prefer the Hobbit movies over Rings of Power. RoP is visually stunning for the most part, so they got their moneys worth there but the writing is a bit meh and I realky dislike the condensation of the storylines (things that should be 1000s of years apart happening simultaneously).
Remember Amazon spent 250 million alone to get the rights, and the other 250 million is now divided by 40 episodes. Not cheap but per episode it’s not as outrageous as most think.
i think it would be fun to do the Targaryen family tree now that S1 of House of the Dragon is over, it’s gotten much bigger since your last video on it!
Tolkien says unequivocally that there are three unions of Elf and Man, but he also states that there is Elven blood in the line of the Princes of Dol Amroth. So somewhere in the past an Elf and Man must've had a child in the region of Dol Amroth. This has no impact on the chart. Tolkien's works are full of family trees. How he would've love to have had the software to make huge interconnected trees like this!
correction there were four marriages among elves and humans. It is kinda obscure but the princes dol amroth descend from a human elf couple that happened in the third age.
There were actually two other, more important, romantic relationships (Aegnor + Andreth (only situation out of six when elf was male and human female) and Turin + Finduilas). Not marriages though, since these elves died prematurely.
@Dominik W I am aware of these 2 relationships but i didnt include them since they didnt end up in a marriage or have any children as far as i am aware.
Well it's not tom we know that now. I mean really I think we all know it's gonna be gandalf. Even though timeline wise that would make no sense. But then rings of power does it's own thing anyway.
Besides from the fourth marriage between elves and humans that i mentioned, there is a fifth case, not a marriage but an important love relationship between Aegnor, brother of galadriel and Andreth, a wise-woman from the House of Bëor.
I was looking forward to this! Although the show has been underwhelming to me, I think the disproporionate passional hate against it is undeserverd. Just as the Peter Jackson adaptations, and the Ralph Bashki and Rankin/Bass animations before, any new entry for people into Tolkien is welcome.
The Rings of Power are not welcome, they are not an interpretation of Tolkiens work but a mockery of most of a mans lifetime, they barely used the Silmarillion.
Celeborn is also grandson of Elmo, brother of thingol. Elves and humans married four times. The forth one (actually the third) is between Mithrellas (a Silvan elf lady) and Imrazor (a gondorian noble man also known as the numenorean). This linage was not given the right to choose to be an elf or human. They are destined to be human. Mother of Boromir and Faramir from the movies comes from this linage.
Some minor corrections/additions to consider: The sons of Fëanor are incredibly important characters in the Silmarillion, and probably should be included. There are 7 fathers on the dwarves. Durin is specifically the father of the dwarves of Khazad Dum. The Harfoots are one of 3 different types of hobbits. There are also the Stoor hobbits, which is what Smeagol was, and the Fallowhides. They sort of merged into one after they were forced to go west during Sauron's war with the Elves, when they settled the lands in and around the Shire. The most accepted version of the story is that Orcs were Elves who had been corrupted by Melkor soon after they awoke. That would have been an interesting thing to include. Another fun, albeit small addition could be the lineage of Dragons, though there are only 4 named dragons in Tolkien's writings. Glaurung, Ancalagon the Black, Scatha the Worm, and of course, Smaug.
Another minor point: Elrond didn't "stay" Elven and Elros didn't "become" Human. They were each Elven and Human to begin with and remained that way (Elrond is still known as "Half-Elven" in the Third Age), but were given the choice which kindred they would follow.
@@jrpipik Sort of. They were given a choice of which race to be counted among. Elrond chose to remain with the Elves, as he was before, and Elros chose to be counted among men. The half-elven part of Elrond's name relates to his parentage, not his race. He is fully an elf after he made his choice.
@@jrpipik Yes, but also no. They were raised among the Elves, as Elves themselves, which is why it says that Elrond "remains" with the Elves. Elros "becomes" a man because he receives the gift of men, which is death, and he joins with some of the faithful men, and leads then to Numenor. And he leaves the Elves and becomes a man.
It’s Gandalf but my reasoning isn’t storied related it’s business related. Amazon needs to have someone from the LOTR trilogy that the casual audience (more viewers, more word of mouth talk) can recognise so we got Galadriel and Elrond, not two characters I will have that fits that void as they don’t scream casual audience recognition but Gandalf screams casual audience recognition so to attract more viewers they needed a face of the casual viewer and “Gandalf” screams that
I really suspect that Nori Brandyfoot will be the direct ancestor of the Took family and therefore will be an ancestor of Beledana Took, Bilbo, Frodo, and other Hobbits
I enjoyed the rings of power and am looking forward to season 2. I personally hope that it is Saruman, Not Gandalf we have encountered as this would be a good look at the good man. And, he is supposed to be older
10:40: Just as a pedantic note; Lucifer isn't Satan's angelic name in the same way Melkor is Morgoth's Valar name. Lucifer and Satan are both post-fall titles, just like 'Morgoth' is. It's not clear what Lucifer's name as an angel was; different sources give different names.
I pray that Amazon will fix the mistakes they made in the first season. I don’t care that they broke canon in a few ways. This show has so much potential
"Broke canon in a few places" = Barely used any Canon, how Tolkien turns in his grave. If they adapted the Silmarillion like Peter Jackson did in the Lord of the Rings and not the Hobbit and stopped racialising the Rings of Power it would be good.
There are several differences with original Silmarillion. First and probably the most significant is the age difference between Galadriel and Celebrimbor. Galadriel was nearly at the same age as Curufin, Celebrimbor's father.
I’m wondering but where do the Uruk hai, and Saruman fit into this along with radagast and the ents and I am asking because I am wondering but is Saruman what Gandalf is along with radagast and also where would beorn and the goblins fit into this.
i am so tired if toxic fandoms. doesn't matter if it's comics, fantasy, or sci-fi. most of y'all came to this material via peter jackson. you defend him to the ends of the earth even though he gutted the source material. yes, he did. timelines were changes. story arcs were changed. characters were changed, added, cut. vital points were cut or changed. but that was all ok. "the rings of power" were only given access to specific material & forbidden others. so they are trying to adhere to these rule & string these bits & pieces together in some sense of coherency. they are also trying to appeal to a modern audience, & people that might not be familiar with the books. but that's the real issue. the jackson films felt safe, because they were a white, heterosexual, boys club. this, however, this you feel threatened by. that has more to say about you than the tv show. but, whatever. i don't feed trolls.
Well, I came to Tolkien’s stuff directly, not through Peter Jackson. And about a hundred million people (estimated from the book sales before 2001) did so. And I happen to be a white, heterosexual (overaged) boy, I also happen to be in favour of diversity. It should be posssible to do a diverse Middle-earth without subverting either the stories or the metaphysics. In short, I largely agree. And isn’t there a lot of trolls about.
In my own head canon the hobbits are the last of the uncorrupted men or the men that were Illuvatar intended. The spirit of Melkor lives in all men; reference the Silmarillion. Hobbits are resistant to influence of evil. When Beor is asked about the origin of his people he doesn't know but is told of a dark past they wish to get away from. We also know that Melkor was the first of the Valar/Maiar to see men. My head canon is that the ancestors of the hobbits split from the group of men before Melkor cause corruption and that the 3 houses of men in the Silmarillion repented their ways and moved westward but were still corrupted nonetheless. As we see they are still influenced by evil and by the One Ring later on.
The way the I see the show heading is that we may see other people like the people of rhun and also maybe the people that Rohan originated from and we also might see other wizards including Radagast and Sauron’s puppet Saruman.
I love this. Minor point. It was hinted at that the meteor man was Gandalf, but that could be a twist. It could be another Maiar, like one of the blue wizards. Certainly this production crew has eschewed the official Tolkien timeline (e.g. Galadriel being a protege of Elrond), but Gandalf did not come to middle earth in the 2nd age. The two blue wizards did, and they would have similar powers to Gandalf. Gandalf is never named, the association is by the meteor man using a similar expression to one used by Gandalf (actually, this happens twice in the first season). My guess is that the production crew put that in to get people talking about how Gandalf is in the show, but they won't necessarily honour that promise next season. They have established this character quite well, and a rug pull of it being another wizard isn't such a big deal after a whole season.
Like the problem for the show is: They can never namedrop the name Gandalf, as they don't have the rights. So even if its Gandalf, they still need to keep calling him the Stranger.
No tie in to where Frodo et al came from? For example are the Haflings in the Rings of Power ancestors of the Proudfoots? Other than that interesting basic overview.
Can someone here explain to this non-reader why Aragorn was heir to the throne and not Denethor? And I ask simply due to the graphic above showing Denethor directly in line under "Kings of Gondor".
Finwë was not a "High" King. For in the time of his rule the Noldor Elves were not divided into factions, as is the case after the departure of the Noldor from Amman under the influence of Feanor.
I was thinking of a metaphore of a first step kinda being like a rightside bishop moving left diagonal then somehow changing pieces and becoming a knight and failing as a guardian over a girl.
You suggest that there is a character in _The Rings of Power_ that turns out to be Gandalf (and many others seem to agree). I think there's an argument to be made that said character is actually Saruman. I think that would certainly be more interesting.
The most plausible theory about Hobbits is found in their name : Hobitla/Holbytla (Hole-builders). They lived in troglodytes and such. They are middle-men who, living in holes, became shorter. I guess this is some darwinian theory of evolution, where living in cramped primitive holes makes humans smaller than most other races of men.
I like the way you present this tree, simple and clear. Unfortunately the RoP writers did a very poor job with the lore and with continuity. As a Tolkien lover it was very jarring
Good chart,but you could have brought in.the dynastic kings of Rohan(ROHIRRIM) at the end,by noting that Faramir,eventual Steward of Gondor eventually married the 'sword-maiden' Eowyn,niece of King Theoden and sister of eventual King Eomer.👍
Help global reforestation efforts by becoming a Lord or Lady today:
establishedtitles.com/UsefulCharts
firts HI MAT BAKEER
CAN YOU DO A FAMILY TREE OF BOB MARLEY FAMILY HE HAS FAMILY ON HIS FATHER SIDE WHO IS A WHITE JAMAICAN OF ENGLISH DECENT AND MOTHER A BLACK JAMAICAN OF AKAN ASHANTI GAHANIAN DECENT PLEASE GET THIS MESSAGE PLEASE
This didn't aged well
The family tree of the Eldar is more like a spider web. Elrond is very special because he’s connected with Vanyer, Noldor, Teleri, Maier, and all three houses of men. It would be fun to trace all those lines.
@@SwordQuake2 oops*
Yet he and Galadriel are treated like shit 😅😅
Elrond… is literally all in one 😂. He is just missing a little bit of Valar heritage 🤭
He has Ainur/Maiar heritage from Melian though @@valkeditz31
Three notes:
First: the hobbits of the Lord of the Rings are mostly fallohides (Tooks) and stoors (Brandybucks). The Harfoots are the basis of "the hobbit commoner." Perhaps Sam Gamgee is the typical Harfoot.
Secondly: the two trees were made by Yavanna, who is a valar, not by the elves.
Thirdly: dunadan/dunedain is just Elvish for "man/men of the West". It doesn't refer to the Numenoreans, it refers to the original humans who were friends of the Elves in Beleriand. Those friends were granted the island of Numenor to live nearer the lands of Valar.
Dúnedain is sinonymous of Numenorean, the Men of the Beleriand were the Edain, ancestors of the Numenoreans that were gifted by the Valar with the western land of Númenor
to add its said that the tree human houses (Edain) are the only humans but that is not true they are the only human houses who moved to the west to the lands of the elves the other humans where mainly corrupted by morgoth, and later become the inhabitans of mordor, harad, and the other countries.
Harfoot might seem like the basis for Harfoots are the most populous of the three groups, it is said they have darker skin then other Hobbits and they were the first to reach the Shire, but it also says Harfoots are closer relations to Dwarves then Fallohides and Stoors who are closer relations to Humans.
Bilbo, Frodo, Pippin and Merry are Fallohides, Sam is a Harfoot, and Smeagol/Gollum is a Stoor.
The 3 types of hobbits have mostly merged into one by the late 3rd age. There are some families that have particularly strong remnants of their heritage, but most if not all families have some blood from all the types of hobbit. Like the adventurous traits shared by Bilbo and Frodo from their Took family heritage. Smeagol is more than likely the only fully Stoor hobbit alive by the time of The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings.
@@somebodykares1 No Hobbits are related to Dwarves. Hobbits are decended from men, and are considered among the 2nd Children of Illuvatar. The Harfoots had more contact with the Dwarves in their earlier days, but they are not at all related.
I found Rings of Power very frustrating, especially at the start when Galadriel was treated as some junior officer, instead of the daughter of the high king of the Noldor in the west, the aunt of Gil-Galad, and acknowledged to be among the most powerful and wise of the first-born, and Elrond was excluded from council because he wasn't an elf-lord lol. I guess the writers must have thought 'we have to give them an arc'. I'm also pretty sure that the name Durin didn't follow one after the next but was given to those seen as a reincarnation of Durin I. Might seem a bit nitpicky but to a tolkien nerd, accuracy is all.
True, this rubbed me the wrong way too.
I can forgive a lot of inaccuracies, but this one changed her nature and history just too much. It would have been better to make her another character entirely, but of course they are trying to get LOTR people to watch (not just Tolkien nerds like me).
I can forgive Durin as they condensed several hundred years of lore into one season (and so needed both alive to represent the conflict the later acceptance).
But Galadriel should have been shown as in competition with the king, rather than suffering insubordination. (Again, for scale, Numinor occupied the Southlands for 200 years before the Doom)
I absolutely HATED what they did with Galadriel’s character. I found myself yelling at my TV half the time.
Actually at the time neither Galadriel or Elrond was considered to be one of the "wise". There were far more ancient and powerful elves still alive in Middle Earth.
Furthermore neither was much interested in such things at the time. From what I've gathered about Galadriel, she traveled a lot at that time. Meanwhile Elrond was YOUNG in the 2nd AGE, and youth isn't valued for their opinions in such a society.
You're thinking of them as they appear in the 3rd AGE when THEY were now the OLDEST and Wisest Elves left.
The reason for that, was that the others were by then mostly dead by the late 3rd AGE.
@@jimthain8777 lol, um, no. Galadriel in Valinor was described by Tolkien as physically equal to any of the princes of the Noldor and more skilled than any save Feanor, but she was wiser than he. She was one of the leaders of the rebellion against the Valar, although she almost repented after the kinslaying. By the the time of the 2nd age when the rings of power are set, there are no others left in middle-earth that even come close to Galadriels heritage.
As for Elrond, yes he was born at the end of the 1st age, but through him flows the blood of Melian and Thingol, Luthien and Beren, Idril and Tuor, and not least Earendil and Elwing. These are the greatest names and heroes of Elves, Men and Maia of the 1st age, and to suggest that would carry no weight is a bit ridiculous.
Think Melian should have been mentioned in more detail. A maiar who married and had a child and whose bloodline stretches into Elrond's and into the Numenorians. And the one who taught Galadriel magic.
Tolkien never really delved that deep into the implications of being "half Maiar". It didn't seem to make the offspring any more than an elf. What if Melian had married a mortal man? I guess whatever physical form the Maiar chooses is the decisive factor.
Love when you do the fictional trees
I think you definitely should move Gil-Galad to being Orodreth's son, NOT Fingon's.
You see, Fingon was the High-King of the Noldor and when he died the title passed to Turgon, his brother, not to Gil-Galad (which it should have been IF Gil-Galad were Fingon's son). Gil-Galad became High-King basically because when Turgon (the then High-King) died at the Siege of Gondolin all his cousins who could claim the title were dead at this point.
While Gil-galad could be switched to Orodreth's son, the High Kingship passed to the eldest eligible male of the House. That was Turgon, after the death of Fingon.
Gil-Galad was very young at that point. The elves needed a powerfull and experienced leader.
Gil-Galad is Fingon's son in Silmarillion. He was moved to become Orodreth's son only in Tolkien's later speculations.
@@rursus8354 Christopher said he made a mistake putting him as Fingon’s son in the Silmarillion. He wrote/published all versions. JRR never published a book himself with a definitive answer.
I think Matt would be very interested in why he needs to be Finarfin’s great grandson due to agnatic primogeniture.
I always thought of the silmarilliion as the equivalent to the Bible for Tolkien's world, with a musical theory of the genesis and stories about mythical characters. I'd be really interested in your opinion on this, particularly in regards of your Ph.D in theology.
Tolkien was one of the greatest 20th century writers of English language Christian apologetics
And the competition, Chesterton, Lewis, Belloc, Waugh, O’Conner, et al, was very good.
The Bible isn't mythical though
@@MalachiCo0 it's mostly mythical. It was written hundreds of years after the "events" took place, so it's also Chinese whispers.
@@deathbycheese850 Incorrect. Almost all of it is contemporaneous accounts.
@@MalachiCo0 it’s mostly a mishmash of myth legend propaganda some history and a lot of disturbing stories incest.
Now it's time
for the Targaryen
family tree 🐉
He already did it
@@henriquegomes9326
Ooopsss 🤗
@@henriquegomes9326 eh not really. He did family trees for the two shows, but there's so much the shows don't cover.
Family bush* 😂
Correction: Family wreath
I would like to see more attention to Elrond throughout the creation of Arnor/Gondor/Rangers. He fosters the descendants of Isildur at Rivendell, preparing them for their future roles in the governance of Middle Earth.
It must be heartbreaking for him to see them grow up, as centuries go by for him.
Aragorn was over eighty when he was crowned King. They live such long lives, but compared to Elrond, it’s a drop in the bucket.
Now I’m sad thinking of Elrond having to watch Durin and Disa die. Dangit.
this was the perfect integration of content with sponsorship, that flowed so smoothly, well done
So in the show there are multiple reincarnations of Durin walking around at the same time? That seems kinda awkward.
In Tolkien cannon that is not the case, but Amazon broke the cannon in the show a bunch of times
Have been waiting a long time for this one. Thank you.
Indeed I’ve also waited years for Matt to do this! Happy day!
Can we do more fictional family trees in the future?
I second this. A Narnia or Star Wars Legends family tree would be cool.
@@MalachiCo0 I want to see a kung fu panda family tree
@@MalachiCo0 maybe monument mythos timeline
@@theshenpartei Monument Mythos might be too niche for Matt, but that'd be really cool. Who knows though, maybe he could do it for Halloween one year.
@@MalachiCo0 I would love love to see a Narnia family tree!
Maybe do a chart on the families of hobbits? It will make the Habsburgs and Ptolemys feel like a breeze
The Tooks, Brandybucks,and Baggins are the aristocracy of The Shire. The Tooks family head is the Thain of the Shire and commander of the Hobbitry at arms, The Brandybuck family head is the Master of Buckland. The Baggins are upper class Aristocracy who don't have any adventures(except for Bilbo and Frodo).
Let’s go, I needed this
I don't know I'm just seeing this, I've been waiting for these videos for so long and they have been up for over a year... How did I miss it... Thanks so much
You did a very competent job, Matt, with a simplified Middle-earth family tree. As I said somewhere in a reply to someone else, there are no real errors. Just some weirdness with pronunciations.
But for completeness sake, let me list what I noticed.
Most noticeable I found the amount of stresses mislaid (using capitals only to indicate stress):
gil-GAlad
oRODreth
celeBRÍan
TEleri
tar-paLANtir
ar-PHArazôn
iSILdur
ARTHedain.
As to ‘VAlar’, you mainly put the stress correctly on the first syllable, except at the very first mention.
In ‘Dúnedain’, the stress is correctly where it should also be in ‘Arthedain’, but the -ai- should be pronouced ‘aye’ as you correctly do in ‘Arthedain’. It’s the same ‘edain’ in both cases.
The intrusive m in ‘Cele·m·brimbor’ has already been mentioned; and also the missing r from ‘Arago··n’, where you have confirmed my suspicion that familiarity with the Spanish kingdom interfered. You’re not the only one! Actually, all r’s in the names in this chart should be trilled (although the Dwarves would have pronouned ‘Durin’ with an uvular r).
A few acute accents have been dropped:
Celebrían
Númenor
Fíriel.
The acute actually changes the word, which maybe appreciated when it is realised that ‘Celebrian’ actually is stressed ‘ceLEbrian’, but that is not the name of Elrond’s wife.
I think you lost an opportunity to give the good example for ‘Noldor’, ‘Vanyar’, ‘Ainur’, ‘Valar’, ‘Maiar’, and similar Quenya words, and also ‘Teleri’ (and ‘Istari’). Namely that these are plurals, and commonly abused on the internet as singulars. I was hoping you would have called Indis ‘a Vanya’ and Lúthien ‘a Teler’, but you didn’t. Instead you used a construction that has spread over the fandom over the last decade, especially on the ’net: using the plural names of the Kindreds in apposition: ‘a Vanyar Elf’ and ‘a Teleri Elf’. Tolkien, however, never used this form of speech, he wrote, and would have said: ‘a Vanyarin Elf’ and ‘a Telerin Elf’, using the derived adjectives.
And finally the problem of Gil-galad. You explained that well, I think. But in the chart it has ended up looking a bit weird. Normally, charts compiled by fans give either the situation as it is in ‹The Silmarillion›: Gil-galad as son of Fingon, and Orodreth as the son of Finarfin and brother of Finrod, Angrod, (Aegnor) and Galadriel; or as it is in ‹The Peoples of Middle-earth›: Gil-galad as son of Orodreth and Orodreth as son of Angrod. But your chart got stuck halfway in between.
Now, when Christopher Tolkien stated (in ‹The War of the Jewels› and ‹The Peoples of Middle-earth›) that it had been a mistake to settle Gil-galad as son of Fingon in editing ‹The Silmarillion›, he also wrote (in ‹The Peoples of Middle-earth›) that he should have left Gil-galad’s parentage open. His problem in giving Gil-galad as son of Orodreth was that his father had done so with Orodreth also son of Angrod. And while Tolkien ‹père› had indicated where Gil-galad as son of Fingon and as son of Orodreth respectively could be inserted into the narrative, Orodreth was one of the four sons of Finarfin in every version of the narrative. Thus making him son of Angrod would necessitate changes to the narrative that were not in evidence, and Christopher was wary of making such changes off his own bat. (Guy Gavriel Kay had persuaded him to do so in the case of ‘The Ruin of Doriath’, and in the same two volumes of ‹The History of Middle-earth› Christopher writes that in hindsight he regretted having done so.)
So it is a bit weird to see in your chart the change (for Orodreth) that Christopher Tolkien felt he could not incorporate in the published ‹Silmarillion›, but not the change (for Gil-galad) that Christopher felt he should have incorporated, but could not as he could not do so without also incorporating the other change. That state of the chart neither represents the originally published version nor the one that ideally should have been.
I haven't seen the show or any of the movies and haven't read any of the books over 20 years, but yet still knew most of this. Tolkein is one of my top 4 authors so I've read the books many times long ago.
I think the character you're referring to as Gandalf in The Rings of Power is not him actually, but a different istar (unless the showrunners confused the Second and Third ages). As far as I remember, Galdalf only arrived to Middle Earth in the Third Age, while season 1 events are in the Second Age. I might be wrong of course :)
It’s Gandalf, stop trying to delude yourself that it’s Saruman or a Blue. Not happening.
@@mrXOwarrior Not deluding anything or anyone, I was expressing my thoughts. Actually, my bet would have been Radagast because of the tree scenes.
Do you still think that the producers care about the lore?
@@elrostarminyatur1814 I don't but I can still have thoughts :)
It is Gandalf, in the last episode they basically confirmed it.
The show hasn’t been particularly faithful to the source material so far, so why would they start now?.
You should note that Humans are not limited to the three houses shown, which are just the three human peoples that first entered Beleriand in the first age and went on to become the "blessed" Numenoreans. But also, they are not the majority of mankind (or the majority of characters in the show, even)
I do actually think we meet way more humans in ROP in Numenor then we ever meet in the Southlands. There are no other humans. But it’s true most humans aren’t from the 3 Houses, and most of the 3 houses entirely move to Numenor at the start of the 2nd age.
For one..I'm very grateful for the "simple" version this tree.The more expanded tree is extremely complicated to say the least Secondly.. you hit that Gandalf appears in RoP.. Well, that still a hot debate, and won't be settled until later, if all. And third. I miss a slightly expanded Harfoot line, forking into the Shire folk on one prong and Gollum on the other. And perhaps extending Durin into where Gimli and Thorin is on the tree.
Fantastic Tree! I love the new series and am a huge fan of it since the first movie release 21 years ago. Thank you for this amazing information. Intense stuff
The way you pronounced Isildur made me think you were talking about a completely different character for a second. I was like "who the hell is that?" then realized 😅
What did you think of ARAGON then? LOL
I had the same issue with Elendil.
I was annoyed by the pronunciation of Dunedain
Glad I wasn't the only one. OK, let's all gather our frustrations here, and exhale...then remember that this is an awesome chart and tree and presentation, and we can overlook them. All together now: "Thank you Useful Charts!"
For a 14-minute summary, not bad! I love the works of Tolkien. I find the latest shows to be just okay (I have a stronger dislike for the Hobbit movies). I strongly disagree with some of the choices the writers made, while some I find interesting. It’s an adaptation, so I don’t expect a lot from it. What’s most disappointing is the product we get when we consider the cost. Something so expensive to make should be the best show ever. It’s not that, and so it feels like a waste.
I agree, but I actually prefer the Hobbit movies over Rings of Power. RoP is visually stunning for the most part, so they got their moneys worth there but the writing is a bit meh and I realky dislike the condensation of the storylines (things that should be 1000s of years apart happening simultaneously).
Totally agree
Remember Amazon spent 250 million alone to get the rights, and the other 250 million is now divided by 40 episodes. Not cheap but per episode it’s not as outrageous as most think.
i think it would be fun to do the Targaryen family tree now that S1 of House of the Dragon is over, it’s gotten much bigger since your last video on it!
Matt, this chart is really WILD!
Finally, I was waiting for you to get to the important stuff.
Tolkien says unequivocally that there are three unions of Elf and Man, but he also states that there is Elven blood in the line of the Princes of Dol Amroth. So somewhere in the past an Elf and Man must've had a child in the region of Dol Amroth. This has no impact on the chart.
Tolkien's works are full of family trees. How he would've love to have had the software to make huge interconnected trees like this!
I'm a huge Lord of the rings fan .. Thank you for this video!
correction there were four marriages among elves and humans. It is kinda obscure but the princes dol amroth descend from a human elf couple that happened in the third age.
There were actually two other, more important, romantic relationships (Aegnor + Andreth (only situation out of six when elf was male and human female) and Turin + Finduilas). Not marriages though, since these elves died prematurely.
@Dominik W I am aware of these 2 relationships but i didnt include them since they didnt end up in a marriage or have any children as far as i am aware.
Finwe was King of the Noldor, not High King. The High Kingship only developed with the exile in Beleriand and the several Noldorin kingdoms.
Great video explaining the family trees and then intersecting with LOTR! well done
nerd of the rings says that gandalf is most likely not on the show.
that might be one of the blue wizards
Or an awkwardly placed Tom Bombadil, but who knows where Amazon is going with this, lol.
Nerd hopes it’s a blue but he knows deep down it’s Gandalf. Just watch his videos again. He’s just not willing to accept reality. Or is that fantasy?
Well it's not tom we know that now. I mean really I think we all know it's gonna be gandalf. Even though timeline wise that would make no sense. But then rings of power does it's own thing anyway.
Loved this explanation! It's the only one I've understood! :) I like the simplicity of it.
Got a video idea: who would be Shogun of Japan today if the Shogunate had not been abolished.
I just subscribed yesterday and I had a feeling you'd have Tolkien content but not less than 24 hours since I found you!!
You’re a good luck charm
Great job explaining all of this!! Thank you
Besides from the fourth marriage between elves and humans that i mentioned, there is a fifth case, not a marriage but an important love relationship between Aegnor, brother of galadriel and Andreth, a wise-woman from the House of Bëor.
why do you insert a second M in Celebrimbor's name? you pronounce it Celembrimbor...is there any reason why?
Tuor also descents from the house of haleth, tuor's father huor's mother hareth (aka tuor's grandma) is from that house
I was looking forward to this! Although the show has been underwhelming to me, I think the disproporionate passional hate against it is undeserverd.
Just as the Peter Jackson adaptations, and the Ralph Bashki and Rankin/Bass animations before, any new entry for people into Tolkien is welcome.
The Rings of Power are not welcome, they are not an interpretation of Tolkiens work but a mockery of most of a mans lifetime, they barely used the Silmarillion.
Celeborn is also grandson of Elmo, brother of thingol.
Elves and humans married four times. The forth one (actually the third) is between Mithrellas (a Silvan elf lady) and Imrazor (a gondorian noble man also known as the numenorean). This linage was not given the right to choose to be an elf or human. They are destined to be human. Mother of Boromir and Faramir from the movies comes from this linage.
When will this chart be available for purchase?
It won't be. I can't sell the fictional ones because they're owned by franchises.
@@UsefulCharts Makes sense. I guess I will have to improve my pause game. 😁
Some minor corrections/additions to consider:
The sons of Fëanor are incredibly important characters in the Silmarillion, and probably should be included.
There are 7 fathers on the dwarves. Durin is specifically the father of the dwarves of Khazad Dum.
The Harfoots are one of 3 different types of hobbits. There are also the Stoor hobbits, which is what Smeagol was, and the Fallowhides. They sort of merged into one after they were forced to go west during Sauron's war with the Elves, when they settled the lands in and around the Shire.
The most accepted version of the story is that Orcs were Elves who had been corrupted by Melkor soon after they awoke. That would have been an interesting thing to include.
Another fun, albeit small addition could be the lineage of Dragons, though there are only 4 named dragons in Tolkien's writings. Glaurung, Ancalagon the Black, Scatha the Worm, and of course, Smaug.
Another minor point: Elrond didn't "stay" Elven and Elros didn't "become" Human. They were each Elven and Human to begin with and remained that way (Elrond is still known as "Half-Elven" in the Third Age), but were given the choice which kindred they would follow.
@@jrpipik Sort of. They were given a choice of which race to be counted among. Elrond chose to remain with the Elves, as he was before, and Elros chose to be counted among men. The half-elven part of Elrond's name relates to his parentage, not his race. He is fully an elf after he made his choice.
@@jakeferreira1211 In which case he became an Elf as much as Elros became a Man.
@@jrpipik Yes, but also no. They were raised among the Elves, as Elves themselves, which is why it says that Elrond "remains" with the Elves. Elros "becomes" a man because he receives the gift of men, which is death, and he joins with some of the faithful men, and leads then to Numenor. And he leaves the Elves and becomes a man.
I was so excited to see this video! I love your channel And I love the rings of power, so this was so cool!
I too loved the show. It’s not perfect but it is a good beginning and I’m excited for the future.
How can a man imagine a holle imaginary world and find a name for each carecter in that world
Was it confirmed that it was Gandalf? I thought it was left unclear and most theories I've seen suggest it was one of the two blue Istari... ?
In my opinion, no. There are some heavy hints, but it's not 100% clear.
It's pretty obviously Gandalf by the end of the season
It’s Gandalf but my reasoning isn’t storied related it’s business related.
Amazon needs to have someone from the LOTR trilogy that the casual audience (more viewers, more word of mouth talk) can recognise so we got Galadriel and Elrond, not two characters I will have that fits that void as they don’t scream casual audience recognition but Gandalf screams casual audience recognition so to attract more viewers they needed a face of the casual viewer and “Gandalf” screams that
Can we get a 1hour full elros to Aragon Family tree?
More of this, please!
Will you be making this as a poster for sale?
I loved that he put meme Bormir as the picture for him
That's a wierd way to say "who would be the king of New Zealand"
I really suspect that Nori Brandyfoot will be the direct ancestor of the Took family and therefore will be an ancestor of Beledana Took, Bilbo, Frodo, and other Hobbits
She’d be a really, really distant ancestor then, because the show is set like 2000 years before the events of the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings.
I enjoyed the rings of power and am looking forward to season 2.
I personally hope that it is Saruman, Not Gandalf we have encountered as this would be a good look at the good man. And, he is supposed to be older
Matt I’m so glad you did this, please do more Tolkien! Also, it’s ARAGORN not Aragon. LOL😂
Haha. I'm too used to talking about real world royal lines.
Can you teach us how to make those curve lines?
Great information 💯💯
Very helpful explanation and great chart imagery. What chart software did you use?
10:40: Just as a pedantic note; Lucifer isn't Satan's angelic name in the same way Melkor is Morgoth's Valar name. Lucifer and Satan are both post-fall titles, just like 'Morgoth' is. It's not clear what Lucifer's name as an angel was; different sources give different names.
came here after watching season 2 of rings of power. sooooo sick!
Great video like always 👍
Well i would like to know more about Thranduil and Legolas. What about the mirkwood elves ?
I pray that Amazon will fix the mistakes they made in the first season. I don’t care that they broke canon in a few ways. This show has so much potential
"Broke canon in a few places" = Barely used any Canon, how Tolkien turns in his grave.
If they adapted the Silmarillion like Peter Jackson did in the Lord of the Rings and not the Hobbit and stopped racialising the Rings of Power it would be good.
Can we get a chart of this to purchase?
There are several differences with original Silmarillion. First and probably the most significant is the age difference between Galadriel and Celebrimbor. Galadriel was nearly at the same age as Curufin, Celebrimbor's father.
I’m wondering but where do the Uruk hai, and Saruman fit into this along with radagast and the ents and I am asking because I am wondering but is Saruman what Gandalf is along with radagast and also where would beorn and the goblins fit into this.
The family tree is way more interesting than the series itself.
I would totally buy a LotR family tree as a print 🙂
Can't make one due to copyright ☹️
@@UsefulCharts too bad!!
i am so tired if toxic fandoms. doesn't matter if it's comics, fantasy, or sci-fi. most of y'all came to this material via peter jackson. you defend him to the ends of the earth even though he gutted the source material. yes, he did. timelines were changes. story arcs were changed. characters were changed, added, cut. vital points were cut or changed. but that was all ok. "the rings of power" were only given access to specific material & forbidden others. so they are trying to adhere to these rule & string these bits & pieces together in some sense of coherency. they are also trying to appeal to a modern audience, & people that might not be familiar with the books. but that's the real issue. the jackson films felt safe, because they were a white, heterosexual, boys club. this, however, this you feel threatened by. that has more to say about you than the tv show. but, whatever. i don't feed trolls.
Well, I came to Tolkien’s stuff directly, not through Peter Jackson. And about a hundred million people (estimated from the book sales before 2001) did so. And I happen to be a white, heterosexual (overaged) boy, I also happen to be in favour of diversity. It should be posssible to do a diverse Middle-earth without subverting either the stories or the metaphysics. In short, I largely agree. And isn’t there a lot of trolls about.
Isildur is the first king of Gondor not arnor as arnor was named after anarion
In my own head canon the hobbits are the last of the uncorrupted men or the men that were Illuvatar intended. The spirit of Melkor lives in all men; reference the Silmarillion. Hobbits are resistant to influence of evil. When Beor is asked about the origin of his people he doesn't know but is told of a dark past they wish to get away from. We also know that Melkor was the first of the Valar/Maiar to see men. My head canon is that the ancestors of the hobbits split from the group of men before Melkor cause corruption and that the 3 houses of men in the Silmarillion repented their ways and moved westward but were still corrupted nonetheless. As we see they are still influenced by evil and by the One Ring later on.
The way the I see the show heading is that we may see other people like the people of rhun and also maybe the people that Rohan originated from and we also might see other wizards including Radagast and Sauron’s puppet Saruman.
I love this.
Minor point. It was hinted at that the meteor man was Gandalf, but that could be a twist. It could be another Maiar, like one of the blue wizards.
Certainly this production crew has eschewed the official Tolkien timeline (e.g. Galadriel being a protege of Elrond), but Gandalf did not come to middle earth in the 2nd age. The two blue wizards did, and they would have similar powers to Gandalf. Gandalf is never named, the association is by the meteor man using a similar expression to one used by Gandalf (actually, this happens twice in the first season).
My guess is that the production crew put that in to get people talking about how Gandalf is in the show, but they won't necessarily honour that promise next season. They have established this character quite well, and a rug pull of it being another wizard isn't such a big deal after a whole season.
Did you mean Melian and not Elrond?
Like the problem for the show is: They can never namedrop the name Gandalf, as they don't have the rights. So even if its Gandalf, they still need to keep calling him the Stranger.
And brimbor wis also featured in the mordore video games
No tie in to where Frodo et al came from? For example are the Haflings in the Rings of Power ancestors of the Proudfoots? Other than that interesting basic overview.
Can someone here explain to this non-reader why Aragorn was heir to the throne and not Denethor? And I ask simply due to the graphic above showing Denethor directly in line under "Kings of Gondor".
This aint Oversimplyfied. That's a whole different channel 😀
the best explain ever ❤
You should do a video about alternate monarchies and houses. Like what if this house took this country or if these succesion rules were implemented.
There's quite a few of them on this channel
Finwë was not a "High" King. For in the time of his rule the Noldor Elves were not divided into factions, as is the case after the departure of the Noldor from Amman under the influence of Feanor.
Great stuff, thanks for covering Tolkien stuff. Would be fun if you did more of the family trees - such as the Elves of the First Age
Celeborn does appear in The Fellowship of the Ring as (Marton Csokas) after Gandalf falls in Moria
it's funny that the elves barely make any children as they have an eternity the only exception is Feanor who had 7 sons
I cannot imagine a movies family free
Should do more of it
it's not..
Bombadil! We need to find Bombadil's thread through this. I suspect he's actually a retired Ainur.
I was thinking of a metaphore of a first step kinda being like a rightside bishop moving left diagonal then somehow changing pieces and becoming a knight and failing as a guardian over a girl.
Its surprising just how many names here have been mispronounced.
... even Valar.
Was the House of Rohan covered somewhere in a different chart?
You suggest that there is a character in _The Rings of Power_ that turns out to be Gandalf (and many others seem to agree). I think there's an argument to be made that said character is actually Saruman. I think that would certainly be more interesting.
Amazing thanks
Would be great to get a Hobbits chart that ties the different Hobbit "tribes" from Rings of Power to Gollum's Hobbits to the various Shire Hobbits
So elrond kissed and loved his wifes mother..my god
Never been this early
The most plausible theory about Hobbits is found in their name : Hobitla/Holbytla (Hole-builders). They lived in troglodytes and such. They are middle-men who, living in holes, became shorter. I guess this is some darwinian theory of evolution, where living in cramped primitive holes makes humans smaller than most other races of men.
Show is amazing
Arwen is beautiful because she is galadriels granddaughter now i understand ❤
I like the way you present this tree, simple and clear.
Unfortunately the RoP writers did a very poor job with the lore and with continuity. As a Tolkien lover it was very jarring
Why am I finding it so adorable whenever you say CeleMbrimbor? 🤣
Edit: actually all the mispronounced names are endearing! 😜
Good chart,but you could have brought in.the dynastic kings of Rohan(ROHIRRIM) at the end,by noting that Faramir,eventual Steward of Gondor eventually married the 'sword-maiden' Eowyn,niece of King Theoden and sister of eventual King Eomer.👍
Yes I thought you might do this too, maybe another episode then!? Please?