The Elf Life Cycle | Tolkien Explained
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2024
- Hit subscribe and the bell for great Tolkien content every week!
Nerd of the Rings on PATREON: / nerdoftherings
NOTR merch: nerdoftherings.creator-spring...
To purchase artist work, check out these amazing artists!
Tulikoura - www.deviantart.com/tulikoura
Matthew Stewart - www.matthew-stewart.com/
BellaBergolts - www.deviantart.com/bellabergolts
Magdalena Katanska - www.artstation.com/magdalenak... / qualiney
Jerry Vanderstelt - vandersteltstudio.com/store/
Anna Podedworna - www.artstation.com/akreon
Jenny Dolfen - goldseven.wordpress.com/
Kimberly80 - www.deviantart.com/kimberly80
Turner Mohan - turner_mohan
Ted Nasmith - www.tednasmith.com/shop/
Anke Eissmann - anke.edoras-art.de/anke_illust...
Aronja Art - / aronjaart
Ivan Cavini - / ivan_cavini
Sara Morello - www.artstation.com/saramorello
Matěj Čadil - www.etsy.com/people/matejcadil
Tulikoura - www.deviantart.com/tulikoura
Aegeri - www.deviantart.com/aegeri
Justyna Dura - www.artstation.com/justynadura
Sergio Botero - www.artstation.com/sboterod
Noe Leyva - / noeleyvart
Clemence Morisseau - www.artstation.com/kahirie
Edvige Faini - www.edvigefaini.com , edvige.faini edvige_faini
Miriam Ellis - www.miriamellis.com
Stevce Lazarevski - www.artstation.com/artofstevce
Álvaro González - / alvarofernag_art
MirachRavaia - www.deviantart.com/mirachravaia
Magdalena Olechny - magdalenaolechny.com/
Painted Dragon Studios - painteddragonshop.etsy.com
Check out these great resources that were super helpful in researching this topic!
HoMe: Morgoth's Ring
tolkiengateway.net
www.glyphweb.com/arda
Celeborn and Arwen - Ralph Damiani
A lord of the elves - MellorianJ
A Summer Ride - Kuliszu
Glorfindel and the Balrog - Alan Lee
Cirdan - Alystraea
Finwe & Miriel - Alystraea
The First Elves - Alystraea
Finwe & Indis - Alystraea
Miriel - Alystraea
Miriel Weaving - Alystraea
Turgon - Alystraea
Death of Miriel - Anna Kulisz
Aredhel lost in Nan Elmoth - Sara Morello
Aredhel - Aegeri
Awakening of the elves - Kuliszu
Beleriand Map - Lamaarcana
Beren & Luthien - Steamey
Boromir - Catherine Karina Chmiel
Celeborn & Galadriel - Anotherstranger_me
Celeborn and Thranduil - Steamey
Celeborn - Tolman Cotton
Celeborn in Lothlorien - Anotherstranger_me
Celebrian - Jenny Dolfen
Children of Rohan - Aegeri
Children of the Noldor - Turner Mohan
Children of Feanor - Jenny Dolfen
Dark Elf - Matthew Stewart
Death of Feanor - Jenny Dolfen
Descendants of Thingol - Jenny Dolfen
Elf of Lorien - Sara Morello
Elrond and Arwen - Anotherstranger_me
Elrond and Celebrian - Kuliszu
Elrond and Elros - Jenny Dolfen
Elven sketch - MellorianJ
elves - Steamey
elves in anduinie - Matej Cadil
Eru and the gods - Kip Rasmussen
Feanor and family - aegeri
feanor and silmarils - Bellabergolts
feanor with his mother - Steamey
Fantasy landscape - Felix Englund
Forest Creek - Felix Englund
Fingolfin - Jenny Dolfen
Fingolfin - Skullb*st*rd
Finrod - YidanYuan
Finrod Doormouse - Jenny Dolfen
Finrod, Beor, and Green Elves - Steamey
Finrod in Nargothrond - Anotherstranger_me
Finwe near Miriel - Steamey
Forest of Mirkwood - Christina Kraus
Caranthir and elves - Steamey
Glorfindel with Elrond & Gandalf - Alystraea
Gwindor's Charge - Peter Xavier Price
Haldir in Lothlorien - Anotherstranger_me
Half-elf warrior - Tolman Cotton
Gwindor in Taur-nu-Fuin - Matthew Stewart
Brothers - Janka Lateckova
Manwe - Janka Lateckova
Cuivienen - Jenny Dolfen
Fields of Gold - Jenny Dolfen
Gil-galad - Jenny Dolfen
Humiliation - Jenny Dolfen
Ruin of the House of Feanor - Jenny Dolfen
Legolas & Old Aragorn - YidanYuan
Love at first sight - Liga Klavina
Nimrodel - Liga Klavina
Luthien & Beren - Tolman Cotton
Luthien - Tolman Cotton
Brothers in Nargothrond - Marya Filatova
Celegorm - Marya Filatova
Curufin - Marya Filatova
Dorthonion - Marya Filatova
Indis of the Vanyar - Marya Filatova
Thingol - Marya Filatova
Thranduil - Marya Filatova
Young Mahtan - Marya Filatova
Melkor Descends upon Arda - Kip Rasmussen
An Elf-stone - Miriam Ellis
Miriel and Feanaro - Tolman Cotton
Orome discovers the elves - Kip Rasmussen
Cirdan - Peter Xavier Price
Ingwe, Finwe, and Elwe - Peter Xavier Price
Halls of Mandos - Ralph Damiani
Rivendell - Sara Morello
Thingol & Melian - Sara Morello
Under the same Moon - Sara Morello
Viresse Veil - Sara Morello
Sindar elf - Turner Mohan
Turin and Gwindor - Ted Nasmith
Elven king - Anotherstranger_me
Court of Thingol - Steamey
Wedding of Elrond and Celebrian - Alystraea
Thingol & Melian - Kinko White
Thingol & Melian - Kip Rasmussen
Thingol & Luthien - Steamey
Thranduil & wife - Alystraea
#elves #tolkien #lordoftherings 
Развлечения
In re: the separation of elf spouses,
I've seen people griping about Galadriel going off to the west without Celeborn and how it must mean that they don't really like each other much. However, I always picture their next meeting something like this,
Galadriel: Hello, dear. I've got the house cleaned up and redecorated. Celebrian and I wove mallorn tree tapestries for the hall and I did the bedroom in blue.
Celeborn: Glad to be here, darling. I closed up Lorien and helped the boys tidy up Rivendell. *Brings her up to date on what he'd heard about their great-grandchildren (Arwen's kids)*
With their lifespan it wouldn't be any different than a human couple making a long distance move with one going ahead to get things ready while the other spends a few weeks tying up the loose ends in their old home.
In the unused LoTR epilogue (published in the _Sauron Defeated_ volume of HoME), Elanor asks about Celeborn and Sam says "I have learned that much from the Elves at any rate. They are not so troubled about time. And so I think Celeborn is still happy among his trees, in an Elvish way. His time hasn't come, and he isn't tired of his land yet. When he is tired he can go."
There's also the fact that despite being geographically distant, there is a lot of magic that allows them to converse as though in the same room. Most readers don't seem to understand how silly it is to try to apply the human condition to the Elves.
I believe the scholar KaydotLamar summed it quite succinctly. "They not like us." "They not like us."
Indeed.
@@tomfoolery5680😂😂😂😂😂 The line by the Scholar KDot is wild and so true 😂😂😂
Pretty much why I wasn't concerned about them being apart for like a century or two. That's like... just half a year to us.
I love your idea but she is LADY Galandriel not an average middle class wife going ahead in a long distance move.
The concept is perfect but your dialogue seems too mundane
Still love it tho😊
I remember my grandfather always saying that though it may appear otherwise, Men are in fact the favored children of Illuvatar, as it is to them that he gave his greatest gift: Freedom.
Elves are bound to the world and all it's pain and decay until it's ending and cannot escape it even in "death"; the Undying Lands are a respite but not a true escape. Whereas Men are given freedom from the world and it's pain through death.
Your grandfather sounds like a wise man.
Only if you believe that there is something beyond
It's funny how they envy each other. The elves envy the men because they receive the gift of death and escape from this world, and the men are jealous of elves because they have near immortality.
@@nemanjap8768Not at all. There is suffering when even turning into nothing is preferred more than existence.
@mikloscsuvar6097 never
When I first read LOTR and got to the part about Círdan, I remember thinking "He has a beard! He must be REALLY, REALLY, REALLY old!"
Once, when I told a little four year old that my grandmother was 89 years old, his eyes got huge, and he said, "Wow! She must be really, really tall!"
@@witchhazel4135 Kid-logic is amazing sometimes! ^_^
I plan to stop shaving on my 10000th birthday too.
Most Elves one day: *I do not vibe with this universe…*
And yet you commented
Most people today...
I totally vibe with this universe, just not the society we are living in.
#notmymiddleearth (I was gonna say Arda but I checked myself, the Undying Lands are part of Arda, just removed after one of the apocalypses [going through the Silmarillion recently I came to realize just how many times Tolkien basically said "I don' t like this map, new server" and now Middle-Earth has a new west coast]).
Elf life in Nan Dungortheb is the same length as shelf life for Twinkies - eternity unless eaten.
That explains why the elves left Middle Earth during the Third Age. Having immortality would be a blessing, however they would feel the weight and sorrows since they are bound to the circles of the world.
This is why when my coworkers were joking that medical immortality could be obtained in our lifetime affordable by the 1% I internally despaired because I see how much the world weighs OK yhe
I've always wanted to know more about Nerdanel. I can't begin to comprehend the strength of will she must have had. Not to bear 7 sons, but to put up with Feanor.
Talk about the "terrible twos"... except that it goes on for 1000 years. 😆
To be fair she gave up after his oath 🤣
Maybe that's why Feanor's mother refused to be re-embodied. She foresaw what would happen and couldn't bear to see it finally happen, and chose to remain safe in Mandos.
She does not get enough attention and love from the fandom. Feanor was definitely at his greatest while having Nerdanel by his side tempering his ego
Nah Nerdsnel was the brawn in the family, when the mood was on her she'd go into the forge and whack Feanor with his own hammer before dragging him to bed.
Many wondered at this but those close to Feanor whispered he enjoyed it greatly.
Thank you for this! I find that most Tolkien’s channels like to cover the origins of elves, humans, and dwarves. However, this is the first telling I have seen on the life cycle of elves (companions to the others would be appreciated as well!). This helps me appreciate the sadness of immortality far better.
Great video. Earnestly appreciated.
I imagine that baby Elves are more like pixies. They can dance by the age of one, it'd be pretty hilarious if they were chubby little one year old babies at that point.
I can't imagine any elf in the history of the world was ever called 'chubby' 😂. As you say, if at one-yr-old they can dance, play and sing they're pretty developed, so like traditional Fairies-miniature people with a 3-5 year old's proportions.
Every time I go into a LOTR phase (which happens a lot) I always rewatch all my faves from this channel. Thanks for these videos! The quality and style is so awesome
Thanks for the video! My weekend treat is rewatching the extended editions of LOTR 💜
I find it interesting that the Elves wore silver rings during their time of engagement and changed them into rings of gold when they got married, because in general Elves preferred silver.
How about Mithril?😁👍🏻
@@Enerdhil Yeah, I am pretty sure that some Elves, who could afford to buy them, had lovely silver-ish Mithril wedding Rings. Somehow I immediately think of Thranduil. Don't know why... Maybe Celebrian, too.
@@anni.68
Interesting... I never thought Elves bought or sold things. I assumed they just traded for stuff they needed or worked as a community to do public projects.
Is there any mention of how the Elves' economy works?
@@Enerdhil Hmm. not sure. It is said that Caranthir got exceedingly rich by trading with the Dwarves of the Blue Mountains. And Thingol quarrelled with the Dwarves over the price for the Nauglamir.
@@anni.68
Yes. I know about those examples you gave. There are other examples of Elven Lords "paying" Dwarven smiths and delvers using jewels they brought with them from Valinor.
I just wish Tolkien had explained more about how economies in the Legendarium worked.
I have never thought Elves used "money" because " money is the root of all sorts of evil." And I feel that Elves are for the most part "sinless," the Fëanorians and Eöl and his son Maeglin being some exceptions to what seems a general rule.
Immortality could be horrible losing someone you love or being a witness to the end of everything hearing the world go quiet.
5:21 Yeah, that explains why elves are in a decline. When were the last days of peace and happiness in Middle Earth.
I had figured exceptions were made in ages after the Fourth Era. Elves do not bare children if they are involved in such times of strife, or that their days of peace are secluded to Valinor where they now reside exclusively. Though at the same time, this could be quite an allegory on Professor Tolkien’s part: If we drop our arms and cease, and return to days of unprecedented peace, the Elves will return again to the world.
Elves were ironically a big part of the reason there was despair and lack of peace and happiness in Middle Earth to begin with. They weren’t supposed to be there to begin with but were supposed to be in the undying lands. Feanor went against the Valars wishes who was envious of men that they would get dominion over Middle Earth (he felt everything should be dominated by the elves as they were the first born) and in defiance also decided to pursue Morgoth the first dark lord in disobedience to the Valar.
Due to this the noldor elves of Middle Earth were cursed by the Valar to never defeat Morgoth and suffer his wrath which not only brought on major pain and suffering to themselves but also to the world of men where as a newly born inexperienced race men immediately had a choice to make to choose either the side of the noldor elves or the dark lord Morgoth.
Thereby men were also cursed to endure the same suffering with much less experience, gifts or talents the elves had to draw on (not to mention the disease, decay and mortality they had to face as a byproduct of their life). The dark elves fate (elves of middle earth were called dark elves) was literally their doing whereas men never really had a choice in the matter except to choose the lesser of 2 evils in a fight they could never win. The Elves meanwhile could’ve avoided the whole thing by not being in Middle Earth to begin with.
@@susanrodriquez3757 Sounds like more Elf criticism. In fact, among other things, the Elves _were_ supposed to be in Middle Earth. Eru had a plan for them. They were kept in Valinor to be protected by Morgoth, who sought to dominate the world
@@teleportedbreadfor3days Elves have their flaws like men but with obviously more advantages, experience, and lack of decay in mind or body that men have to endure and a greater chance at wisdom and nobility through long years. Yes it absolutely was a critique. With great power comes great responsibility and it is quite obvious as the older brother of the children of lluvatar that the elves as individuals overall wield more power than their younger brothers in the world of Arda. Criticism is important because it is a reflection on how you could’ve been better but you make it sound like a bad thing when it isn’t.
However yes technically everything is by Eru Lluvatars plan because he adapts it accordingly. For example Aule created the dwarves but they were not initially supposed to be a creation because they aren’t supposed to be created without Erus permission. It was then Eru that gave them free will and a soul but warned Aule and said they would often be at odds with the children of lluvatar because of what Aule did. By the same vain this is similar to the elves in that Eru shifted and adopted the plan except that Feanor did it in defiance whereas Aule just wanted someone to teach his craft to and he apologized (which is why Aule was forgiven whereas the Noldor elves were cursed by the valars and Feanor to the very end never apologized).
Dominion of Middle Earth was initially supposed to be given to men with the undying lands given to the elves. This obviously became adapted differently by Eru when Feanor rebelled with great cost to both men and elves. Ultimately everything was rectified with Middle Earth given back to men in the end as Elves went back to the undying lands over time. This is also reflected somewhat in original sin. Adam and Eve were given the heavenly Garden of Eden. Now did God know man was going to commit sin and eat from the tree of knowledge? Yes and he set such plans accordingly. You can make this same argument about the elves of Middle Earth. The Noldor elves went against the original plan for elves committing sin. However due to giving them free will Eru knew it was going to happen and adapted his plans accordingly as he knows all things. In spite of this the dark elves of Middle Earth still had the free will and option not to commit sin the same way Adam and Eve had the option not to commit sin (a lot of this stuff while not exact is parallel as Tolkien was a Christian).
@@susanrodriquez3757 If elves were not supposed to be in Middle Earth, Eru Iluvatar would not have placed them there. The Valar were wrong to ever try to take them away. Ulmo was right to oppose Oromë's plan to bring the Elves to Aman.
If only those men and numenoreans who yearned for the precious elf immortality knew that most of that time would be spent in the drudgery that is the halls of Mandos until its youre turn to be reincarnated.
"Dad said its my turn on the reincarnation"
The grass is always greener on the other side.
And even worse: after you're reincarnated, you have to go back to your wife!
@@jimbolambo103 and not have sex after 4 kids for an eternity. (even if you die and come back)
@@willclark4449 That may not be an 'or worse' for them. Perhaps they just simply don't have a desire or urge for sex. As a sex repulsed asexual I can totally understand not having any sexual urges or desires and can easily go months and years without sex. Or perhaps they have control over their bodies to the point that they can have sex without conceiving a child. Their bodies are different enough from humans that perhaps a female elf only releases an egg for fertilization when she and her husband wish to get pregnant.
I’m reading the Silmarillion and this is going to clear up so much for me! Thanks❤
I would highly reccomend the Sisters of the Shire podcast. They went through the Silmarillion in small bits and made it easier for me to get the names and family trees straight in my head.
@@pharrigan-hikes thank you for the recommendation!
Feanors mom is the most interesting part of all of the textbook of the Silmarillion (besides Beren and Luthien, which is a true novel in and of itself!)
Elvis marriages sound similar to Vulcan relationships 🤣
Vulcans are Star Trek's Elves for sure!
Elvis marriages are specifically in Las Vegas only. I don't see a connection at all
🤯🖖🤣🤣🤣🍻🧝♂️🧝♀️
Its like Christmas morning every time I get the notification of a new NotR upload! 🥳
1:21 Now I know what the true gift of Iluvatar to men was.
This is an interesting concept on the Elf Life Cycle. Also, knowing what happens to them in spirit, it would be great to know where spirits of both Elves and Men go to when they die. Perhaps a video on the afterlife for men and elves and how they differ or share similarities is something worth looking into.
It'd be a pretty short video - not even the Valar know where the spirits of Men go after death, only Eru Iluvatar knows. For the elves, the Halls of Mandos could be discussed, but ultimately the fate of the elves is linked with the fate of the world.
I don't want to say that this "humanises" the Elves, because of course not, but... this makes the Elves a lot more understandable and relatable in terms of their lives than otherwise, etc.
Finally, someone explained what it meant for an elf to fade. I had no idea that it literally meant the materializing into a spirit.
Maglor was probably one who faded as he wandered Middle Earth singing laments after the first age was concluded.
Great topic. Loved this. I must say, though, there seems enough reason in Tolkien's original intro and prologue in LOTR to believe that Elladan and Elrohir sailed away on the same ship as Celeborn and Cirdan.
Tolkien created a truly amazing universe. I’m always in awe every time I read his work.
Elves physical bodies fadeing in time is so cool because it matches elfs/alver in norse/germanic mythology
Very well written. Thank you!
Interesting how D&D elves share the century long maturity with their Tolkien inspiration.
Yall oughta make a video on the influence of Tolkien on modern fantasy, and the ensuing lawsuit with Dungeons and Dragons
This Video Was so well done! You Honor Tolkien's memory with this video Matt!
Love that Lore. Thank you for keeping that river flow.
My view of elves in LOTR has completely changed! Tolkien has brought so much depth to us, and of course, it is so well presented in this video! Marvelous work, Nerd of the Rings! Also, if possible, could you share which score is used in this video, especially in the second half? Thank you and, again, excellent work!
Bound to this World, of the Stars
Could you do a history of eregion next
I see a new Nerd of the Rings video, I click it. Always great content, thank you so much.
Excellent work
Much love from Canada, sincerely your highest viewing non patreon viewer 🎉🎉🎉
Hello fellow Canuck! 🖖😎🤘🇨🇦. I made a joke comparing Elves and Vulcan relationships 🤣
Thank you, I appreciate the knowledge! 👍🏻
Great artwork in there.
The content is very detailed and easy to understand. Extremely helpful for beginners like me!
Very cool. It’s always interesting to think of a lifestyle that’s different than what is common to us. An in depth look into the elves, and how they grow up, and mate, is not really something that I knew about. I had wondered when they grow out of “adolescence”. Some of the stuff you go into, I at least have a cursory understanding of, but it’s always awesome getting more detail. However this subject was new to me, but like I said, something I had wondered about. Awesome!
You never miss with an upload!
Nice video. Just like old days. Bless you laddie❤
This is a very cool series. Keep it up 👍
Maybe that's why the live between mortals can be the most beautiful. As an Elf, you are with your love till the ending of the world, but for man, you only have one lifetime to spend, thus it makes every memory valuable. Unless of course they meet again outside the bounds of Arda
What about Ingwe and the Vanyar who never left Valinor? Do they enter the third life cycle, too, or do they stay in the second life cycle?
read the Nature of Middle-Earth. It goes into extreme detials about aging and how their life cycles start and end especially during the great march and how they populated
@@Iloveu4646 Yeah, I know. I do not remember though if there is anything said about aging in Valinor.
I have always thought that being in Valinor stops Elves from fading. The way Matt explained it, it sounded to me like the Third Life Cycle was connected to fading.
@@Enerdhil That is possible. But does that mean that Cirdan had a problem with fading?
@@anni.68
Cirdan seems to be an "exception to the rule." The fading process seems to occur to at least all of the Eldar. I am not sure about the Elves who never went to Aman. Thranduil's people were mostly Sylvan Elves, weren't they?
I think the only reason Lothlorien and Imladris thrived for the whole Third Age was because of Vilya and Nenya. Maybe the Elessar that Celebrimbor made for Galadriel could ward off some of the fading, but the fact that the Elves of those realms left soon after the Elven Rings of Power stopped working makes me think that many of them, especially Galadriel and Elrond, were going to "fade" quickly. I am probably wrong😅 but it makes sense to me.
So Cirdan had Narya for a while but he gave it to Gandalf. I don't think he needed it to preserve Lindon. I don't think Cirdan would have ever "faded." Maybe it is because he was one of the Elves directly created by Eru. Maybe he reached the Third Cycle of Life because he had never seen the Light of the Trees. I am not sure, but Cirdan was a blessed and highly-favored Elf.😁👍🏻
That’s dark but in an older video you said that all of the children of illuvatar will take part in the second music even the dwarfs on your third video on morgoth.
Good work ❤
great video brother, thank you!
Very well done.
An elf episode that focuses on a part of their physiology. nice. Im willing the bet that this is going to be one of many.
Great content as always.
"elves have very few children. Only about twice as many children as families nowadays have." xD
Then he says 7, so people are having 3.5 children now?
How are they getting the .5 childre.... Actually, I don't wanna know.
@@scubasteve7850 He said 4, then noted that one elf pair had 7 as a rare exception.
@@novacorponline lol I didn't catch that, I was making salsa while listening to the video
Urban people nowadays have very, very few children. :)
I got my lores mixed up at the end and thought you were making a pun ("... the world made anew."). One of the primordial deities in the Elder Scrolls games is Anu, the primordial force of order and stasis. One in-game sect's interpretation of their origin leads them to believe that they are destined to unmake the world to return to a state of changelessness (you can't have change if you don't have things that can change), thereby making the world Anu.
should do a more detailed video on the sundering of the elves, the YT and everything that went on during that time.
Who wants to live forever…
Me
As tiresome as it would be, I'd still prefer to live then to trust in Death
Who dares to live forever? 🎶
Love the videos
Excellent video! Great summation of the Elven life-cycle.
My only question was the meaning of 50 and 100 years. Were those Valian Years or Years of the Sun?🤔
@@Enerdhil It's Years of the Sun. Elrond was at the Fall of Thangorodrim and that was only around 50 Years of the Sun after he was born.
@@istari0 Yes accurate. Also remember according to the writings in the Nature Of Middle Earth book the years that an Elf has lived within Arda are different than their actual age. For example 11000 years an Elf has lived doesn't mean they're 11000 years old.
@@istari0
Elrond was never alive during the so-called Valian Years, so of course in his case it is Years of the Sun.
How about Galadriel? If those 50 and 100 years are Years of the Sun, then she would have reached her Third Cycle of Life in Eldamar according to Matt's interpretation of Tolkien's very confusing Life Cycles of Elves. Did Galadriel reach her Third Cycle of Life at all?🤔
@@Enerdhil We know the 1st Cycle ends after around 100 years. As far as I recall, I don't remember there being a clear definition of how long the 2nd cycle lasts. And Galadriel was nearly 3000 Years of the Sun younger than Círdan.
Love you bro
hey! I love your videos and I thought a video about the languages of middle earth would be cool.
In the passage in Morgoth's Ring (Laws & Customs Among the Eldar), the 'years' referred to (after the first 3), are likely the 9.58 : 1 rate of 'Tree Years' (See, e.g., Finarfin born in YT 1230, marries in YT 1280 (Annals of Aman) "The Eldar wedded for the most part in their youth and soon after their fiftieth year").
The ca. 1958 ageing scheme should probably not be tied into the later developed 'cycles of life', which have different schemes. In particular, the text in NoMe, 1 XIX: Elvish life-cycles (which has a 1 : 1 growth rate to 'maturity', then 144 : 1), dated to c. 1969+, and having 'youth renewals'; but also the 1965 1 XVIII Elvish Ages & Númenórean, which is 3 : 1 then 144 : 1, (full-growth at 72 (sun-years), 'youth' until 6,912, 'maturity' or 'standstill' until 13,896, then 'fading').
Trying to figure out how many years of the Sun equal one Valian Year makes my head spin.😵💫
I like one Valian Year = 9.58 years of the Sun. 144 years of the Sun equaling one Valerian Year is way too much, IMO.
@@Enerdhil 9.5862 IIRC.
The 144 is okay, as long as it is kept in context.
While Tolkien suggested in one place that it could just be put into the Annals, he seems to have realized that was problematic, as he started reworking the dates to accomodate that (e.g. NoMe 1 XIII, and some other 'hints' in some of the later 'ageing' texts). Unfortunately he did not finish it.
@@Tar-Elenion
I'd say "fortunately" he didn't finish.😁
For most of us, around "10" makes the math really easy, so that is what I am going with. 😅👍🏻
@@Enerdhil I would not say fortunately, since he was breaking it down by _loa_ with in the _yen_ (unlike the Annals), e.g. VY 865/1 Awaking of Quendi. (I would however give it up for a complete revised Tuor...).
When referring to The Annals of Aman, I maintain the 9.5862 is what should be used, as that is the context it was written in. Just putting the 144 into it leads to absurdities like 40000 year old Luthien or 20000 year old Aredhel.
@@Tar-Elenion
That makes sense. I just never understood why he thought changing the conversion rate of Valian Years to Years of the Sun made sense at such a ridiculously high number.
You mentioned Tuor would benefit from the 144 rate. How so?
Such a Beautiful Episode ❤
I'm seeing a parallel between how the earth affects the Eldar and how the One Ring affected those who wore it. Perhaps in forging it, Sauron captured some of the spirit of Arda itself, binding it with his own will. Thus, the Ring(and by extension, Sauron) and the Eldar would be two sides of the same coin; the elves accepting Arda as it comes and Sauron attempting to dominate and shackle it.
Thanks!
This is the kind of nerdy stuff I love
Since the conception of elf children requires a greater share of their strength of being in mind and body, I wonder how it may have been different for Aragorn and Arwen. Did only Arwen give so much of herself and not Aragorn? Additional, I wonder how long Arwen carried the children. 9 or 12 months?
Those children were humans not elfs, and conceived after she had chosen to be a mortal, hence 9 months
@@JudgeMagikarpHalf-elves and most likely they could no longer choose where they belong.
@@vksasdgaming9472 Aragorn and Arwen's children are not counted as Half-elves.
The term ""half-elf" only applies to the offspring of Elves and Men, and to descendants of such unions who had the gift of Choice.
Despite being children of a Half-elf, Eldarion and his sisters were mere Men; Dúnedain, but just Men - for their mother Arwen was no longer as she was before making the Choice.
@@leonardofaber5823 They were still half-elves as Arwen was one of eldar. She was three-quarters elf though. Eldarion and others just lacked choice previous children like they had.
@@vksasdgaming9472 it matters not who Arwen was: after her Choice she was, for all intents and purposes, of the Men. So her Children, despite havin elven blood from both mother and father, were also of the Men.
Her children are not counted as Half-elves, but rather as Dúnedain from the restored bloodline.
It all makes sense now.
Elves have lovely intricate things, live in beautiful homes, and peacefully pursue the delicate and nuanced aspects of artistry…
Because they have no Babies. No Toddlers. No chaotic, selfish, agents of destruction stumbling around chewing, drooling, puking, and pooping all over everything when they aren’t literally Screaming for attention and accommodation.
Nice.
Love the Elven stuff.
Fascinating! Having to be tied to the world until it's end may be more of a burden than Men's mortality. I'd love a video on the council of Elrond.
I'm in the middle of reading the Silmarillion, which is an obvious challenge, and I admit I haven't picked it up in a while, but I know that when I finish It will have been worth reading. How long did it take you to finish it?
I tried reading it a couple of times, but couldn't get through it. Then I listened to it as an audiobook, got through it just fine and love it.
"They are the fist born"*
*You know, if you ignore the dwarves. And assume that creation is not 'born'.
That was a beautiful ending. Almost makes you appreciate mortality.
thank you👏
I thought that Arwen was an example of an elf who remained in ME and just faded away some time after Arathorn died
This is an element of Tolkien's writing that I have the most trouble accepting. Men and elves are supposed to be of a kind, not one being objectly better than the other, but that's just not the case. Men live, toil all our lives, then die with very little control over anything. Elves if not outright immortal might as well be, and they have so much more control over their fate, occasionally coming back from death itself. And in their thousands of years, they experience all there is to experience, seek out far greater mastery than any human could match in any field. Oh but humans get a mystery ending, evening things out! Well, so do elves! So in what way are men on par or better than elves? Besides breeding quicker, I see nothing to even the two races out.
A classic critique there.
If it makes you feel better though Men have a capacity for growth lacking in the Elves. The knife ears peaked in Valinor a land not their's and when Morgoth whispers that all they built is but leftovers the Valar gave them... well he's not too far off. When they strike off on their own? They fail utterly in what's no more than a long season. The glories of Beleriand are trumped up hillforts squatting on Thingol's land. And when the War of Wrath comes it is not the exiles that join in... it's men.
Men never give up the fight.
And it is men who make the greatest nation on the face of Arda. They don't sit on their island they sail from the sunset to the dawn. And even as they fall to darkness their strength waxes until such was their might that not even the One Ring could keep Sauron's forces from fleeing before the might of Numenor.
And yet their greatest days lie before them still.
@@blacksage2375 That's an interesting point you make. Essentially that elves peaked a long time ago, and given all their natural gifts, they never really tapped all their potential.
Does anybody know where I can find all these amazing songs playing in the background? Specially the sad violin at 8:06. Thanks.
1:25 got to really hydrate well to squeeze out a baby-maker
I would love to see a video that covers things like Orc diet. Did orcs farm? did Orc ever train for war/battle or did they just pick up weapons and fight? If they were not trained then why didnt morgoth or sauron spend more time actually training orcs to be more effective warriors in battle? Is there such a thing as neutral orcs or feral orcs that do not actively seek aggression with humans or other races? Or are all orcs simply "evil" and "ravenous" and thats just how they are? What did legions of orcs do in the time that Morgoth / Sauron were out of the picture and had no leader?
Can you talk about elf/men relationship like friends , love those stuff
It appears to me that Tolkien’s elves share quite a bit with the Nephilim from the extra biblical texts.
Extended life spans, powers beyond mortal men, their spirits forced to remain within the world itself until the end of days. Their spirits being invisible and yet having the ability to speak directly into a man’s mind. They seem to be concerned with the Kings and/or leaders of their own kind far more than their God’s desires. They are self important and feel superior to mortal men.
I believe as much as Tolkien claims to dislike allegory, his overall cosmology shares quite a bit with our world if you removed the Trinity God persons. The love of the created over the love of the creator permeates his writing.
I enjoy his writing but I cannot help but see the truth about his world and cosmology.
The elves loyalty to each other is something only written in Tolkiens books. I wish humans learned from such writings.
He was a devout Christian and disapproved of divorce. That's the reason why he is idealizing elven relationships and matrimonies.
Can someone give me the name of the music at the end of the video. It souds so good pls !
Very fitting to have this video with Frieren's popularity 😀
Man leaves the world long before he is ready, while the Elfine are forced to remain far past when their souls long for peace. In this way they are the same, for it is not death, or its lack, that is the curse, but that neither race meets their end when they are ready for it. The true blessing would be for one to remain in the world, experiencing, learning, growing, ever changing, until one has accomplished everything one desires, and then when one is ready, to peacefully pass on.
Dang, I phrased that strangely. 🤣
And what about fate of man and Gift of Ilúvatar? Nice topic for the new video, I guess.
No one knows the Fate of Men after passing. Maybe Manwë and Mandos know, but they do not tell.
So they’re little babies, walking around and dancing and singing, lol.
So I'm literally watching FOTR right now and thought, how does Sauron not at least keep in mind that the rings destruction was a possibility when it was the rings power that convinced isildur to leave Mt Doom and not destroy it? When he did find out it was too late but he should have already known
this was addressed in the stories. He fully believed that the corrupting power of the ring was so great, no mortal (and few immortals) could withstand it and therefore none would have the will to destroy it. None should even be willing to CONSIDER destroying it once they are under its sway. And he was very nearly right. Gandalf and Galadreil *barely* manage to turn down the offer to take the ring and both knew what it would do to them if they actually possessed it. Faramir is the ONLY man in history to be in a position to take the ring and actively choose to let it go. And the only bearers of the ring to willingly give it up were Bilbo (who still was tempted by it later) and Sam. AND in the end, the ring is not destroyed willingly. Neither Frodo nor Gollum wanted to destroy it once they reached Mt. Doom. But in their struggle to possess it, Gollum fell and took it with him. So in that sense Sauron was not wrong, the "owner" of the ring did NOT try to destroy it. Like Isildur before him, Frodo had the will to bring it to the Crack of Doom, but then the ring's power proved to strong and he turned away.
I would love to see a clever elf child in Rings of Power.
So Elves are not immortal, they are _ageless._ Which is not the same thing.
Well, nope in my opinion they're immortals. They can live always, a exeption if they are kill.
And as the elf pupa struggles to free itself from its cocoon, something wonderful happens: the small, fuzzy worm had transformed into a glittering adult.
David Attenborough probably said that.
10:53 I like how that's just Link
And for those elves who choose to marry men, a time of joy, followed by a parting, and in a way elves wouldn't normally feel, as the soul of man sails beyond the world, to a place where his loves soul can never follow, so long as the world endures.
Elves become mortal when they wed Men, so they share the same fate- Luthien and Arwen will never see their families again, hence the pain of their choice to their fathers.
Happy Boink Day!
If I was an Elf I would spend my years trying all the wine the world has to offer
It's more difficult for Elves to bear children? Wow. Elves are noble and self-sacrificing enough as it is. Ol' Eru should have at least eased their motherly burdens.
He saved it for men.
@@valentinkambushev4968 The more selfish and potentially evil of the two species. Wow, that's fair.
It's also a way to prevent overpopulating the world with being of immor- *ahem* "serial longevity"
@@KingOfSciliy I can understand that. But why can't Eru trust the wisdom of His First-Born, and just have faith that they can control their own population for the best?
@@colinbaldwin313 He said that it took more effort of mind, will, and body, not that it was more painful. One possibility is that they simply had so much stamina it would take a very long time and a lot of effort for them to achieve a climax. Or they may have had a much narrower window of fertility and/or a longer menstrual cycle. These all lead to a situation where it would make the bearing of children require much more intentional effort or planning.
What music list are you using for these videos?
Aren't there any adolescence stages? It is the calmest and most beautiful stage of human development.
a video about Lindon
With Elrond, Galadriel, Celeborn, even Gandalf, etc., how do they endure so long in this sorrowful world without resisting the urge to sail into the Undying Lands?
Just built different
Being a prisoner on Middle Earth as an elf would be so much worse than death.
I believe the life bonding of elves were based on tolkien love for his wife. Something very hard to understand these days.