I still think Dnd needs more weaknesses. Every single enemy should have one weakness. Doesn't have to be a vulnerability. Sunlight sensitivity is a weakness. A good weakness. If a subclass is built around understanding enemies weaknesses, they need to have weaknesses. It's also very fun for players to figure it out.
@@PH03NIX96 Yeah and also added Ashardalons Stride, the single highest potential dpt in the entire game. I actually think Kobold should do a whole video on this spell. I'll see if I can message him
Apparently they don't want players to focus solely on exploiting a monster's weaknesses, that's why they are so rare. Resistances and immunities are more common because they force you to use a different approach, while weaknesses negate any other option by virtue of being so glaringly useful compared to anything else. The troll is virtually immune to mundane attacks because of its high regenerative powers, so in order to kill it you have to set it on fire or pour acid on it, if you don't you're basically wasting time and resources on a problem that could be solved much more easily.
One problem I have with it is it makes meta gaming more powerful. So long as you know what to bring to any fight to give you double damage, you can augment the difficulty of an encounter massively
The Monster Slayer should feel like the ultimate tactician, the 5-head who has a back up plan for anything they might face, pretty much the Batman of D&D. Instead we got a clunky mess with some interesting features that have been too heavily limited.
"Too heavily limited" are three of the most depressing words. At least we have something of an outline to homebrew off of, I guess, but it's just not the same as getting something well-tuned instead of over-tuned to begin with.
@@maximocaseres2526 Probably an inquisitor rogue + monster slayer I'd say, since the slayer is all about coming with plans and ways to counter their foes, which is Batman to a T. He does have a back up plan to kill every member of the Justice League after all.
Monster Slayer makes you feel like Batman in the Justice League: a regular dude with some grappling hooks and boomerangs working alongside Superman, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, and The Flash.
As an 11th level Monster Slayer, you can counterspell once. Then you get wizards, that can do it twice, at level 5! It automatically succeeds for lv1-3 spells and otherwise you need to beat a 10 + the spell level - your spellcasting ability (which is usually your highest ability score). This and it doesn't rely at all on how good the opposing spellcasters wisdom save is (which a large portion of spell casters likely have a large bonus to, especially if they're flinging spells of 4th level or higher) The only thing the ranger has going for it is that it's ability can't be counter spelled.
While the feature is still not great, Rangers get to counterspell once per short or long rest, so with the recomended two short rests per long rest they can counterspell three times per long rest.
So about spells, Zone of Truth I see come up all the time in social encounters and interrogations. It's not a combat spell but not every spell should be a combat spell.
I useally find 20% combate only spells like ( magic missle) 60% combate and role play things like (ray of frost good for combat great for a fire extinguisher) 20% role play only ( things like zone of truth)
Except it's not that good. The spell doesn't compel the target to speak. It can just stay silent, or answer in "technical truths" that don't reveal anything important. The real interrogation spell is actually Detect Thoughts.
It might be a good social spell, but the fact that it still needs a saving throw puts it a little down, since you're a ranger and your spell DC isn't usually that high. Don't get me wrong it has its uses but you can't force someone to talk or fail this save without repercussions
Dude I know you have other things going on and a real life in the real world outside of making videos, I just wanted to let you know we're super grateful you take the time to do these. They're fun and educational, even if the subject matter is basically a big-boy big-brain imagination game.
As someone who has played a Monster Hunter for 3 years now, I agreed with this analysis. I wish that there was more synergy between Slayers Prey and Hunters Sense but I’ve enjoyed my time as a Monster Slayer just for the feel
It feels like they are so afraid of making a martial class OP that they knee cap it before the game even starts 11th level you get 1 bad counter spell every short rest. A wizard can do that 6 times with some guarantees. Obviously I'm not saying this sub class should be able to do that, I'm just pointing out that there are painful discrepancies between classes and Wizards is afraid of crossing that line
"they are so afraid of making a martial class OP", yup, meanwhile Hexblades, which is a full-caster subclass, get everything needed to be a good martial before level 6 ^^.
"they are so afraid of making a martial class OP" Checks Paladin, Hexblade (dip), Barbarian (Zeolite and Bear), Rogue, and the feats Sentinel and PAM. I think they just had the wrong people working on Ranger. Or at least people who mechanically DO NOT understand 5E.
@@peterwhitcomb8315 paladin hexblade dip is good if you eldritch blast at range and act as a bless bot. barbs die to enemies focus firing on them if they have no way to wade out of melee, and their damage just straight up doesn't scale level 8+, finally sentinal and the third benefit of pam drop off in usefulness as opportunity attacks become less of a threat later in the game. Martials are gimped in many ways that are reasonable to point out. I'd say base phb ranger is still good because you can get the the archery+crossbow expert + sharpshooter combo online.
@@xandolf2852 Paladin/anything are "Can't hit me at higher levels" (unless your table uses flanking, which I highly encourage because of Paladin/Bladesinger). You can even take out "the boss" in an encounter while your party focuses on any objective/minions. Barbarian (specifically the those two sub classes) are very similar to Paladin (and Paladin-dips) in both keeping the focus on them while the party does everything else. It is harder for them to dish out "meaningful" damage at 11+ but that is more to do with them not having innate ways to get "+damage" through spells like hybrid melee. Reactions and Bonus Actions become a very precious commodity at higher levels, I agree. This was about melee and the OP builds that do exist. If you want to change the subject to the three archery feats, again, Ranger is still least optimal.
The Monster Slayer really needs a source of radiant damage so you feel more like a Belmont. Heck, you could just do a Divine Soul-like deal and add all the paladin spells.
I don't think having radiant damage plays into the slayer's prey feature, as you'll be forgoing any need to learn thier defenses. I get the premise, but I feel radiant damage would make the fun redundant. I see the monster slayer more as a smart warrior with a pokedex.
I think a good feature would be allowing you to pick two elements on a short or long rest. Until your next rest, you can deal an extra 1d4 or 1d6 damage corresponding to that element, and that arrow deals that element's damage instead of piercing
The idea of doing additional elemental damage sounds pretty cool. Use a bonus action to imbue your weapon with one of 5 elemental flavors, now your weapon does that element in damage plus an extra d6 to either all attacks or once each turn. Lasts a minute and is Non concentration so you can still have fun with your ranger spells. Usable proficency bonus times per short or long rest. At level 11 it goes up to 2d6 bonus damage. This combined with the free action to scan your enemies would be something fun to play with I think.
Assuming the starting 5 elemental choices are fire, cold, acid, poison, and lightning, maybe expand the options at level 11 to include thunder, radiant, necrotic, psychic, and force as well? Even giving the subclass the ability to create some kind of consumable, like the Alchemist Artificer, that produces these effects would be a reasonable fix, and would allow the DM to either manage it by controlling the influx of ingredients or hand wave it according to their play style. Such a cool idea for a subclass squandered by lackluster abilities.
Monster slayer feels like it had no real idea for what its "thing" is. The idea of being able to pick out info on what you are fighting is neat and could have been what the class was about. I had a homebrew I didn't end up using for Ranger of the prepared ranger. At the start of a day if you have done research on a creature you can pick a vulnerability and create a poison for that changes the damage weapons deal. A few variants of this (support ideas, self buff ideas, being able to deal vulnerability damage to creatures that normally wouldn't be able to, etc.) I never got to the point with numbers nailed down on this, but one thing I wanted out of a ranger class was the idea of a party member who spends the start of the day putting effort to take something specific down. I ended up scrapping the thing because the game it would have been in never started, but I still think about messing with something like it from time to time.
I'd disagree on the point of momster slayer having "no clear identity". Half the features it gains as it levels up has to do with saving throws, it's main sthick is supposed to be fighting things like medusas, evil spellcasters and other supernatural threats, as it's name implies. I for one think it should lean more heavily into that
Thats a really good idea it's similar to preparing spells but its the physical side of that poisons or snares thats a cool way to make the class have more use and flavor
@@ethanalspencer7294 what the fuck are you talking about? **One** spell says "detective", the rest say "i fight fey, fiends, celestials, vampires etc" **One** feature says "anti-mage" specifically, and even that one also work on teleportation that isin't a spell (something no fucking wizard does but something a lot of *monsters* do) The save buffs scream "i fight vampires, medusa/basilisks, dragons, fey etc" Say what you will about the potency of the sub itself, it has a very specific, very consistent theme
I like hunter's sense as a class feature, and in a CoS campaign I was running, it got a fair bit of use, even with the action cost- in real play often their are a few rounds worth of words exchanged or stealthy observation before initiative is actually rolled. Nothing about the flavor text suggests this ability has any observable cues (other than maybe an intense stare or something) to let NPCs or monsters know it is being used, so often the player could use the action from hiding prior to launching an attack or from the back of the party while the party face tried to talk their way out of whatever situation they were in. I like this iteration of the "out of combat gather tactical info" ability much better than some earlier attempts, such as the battlemaster version where you need to sit down with the beholder and have tea and scones for an hour only to find out that it has more hps that 52 and more intelligence than 8 or whatever. I do hard agree that the overall subclass is pretty much junk, though. I really like the basic idea of "at will hunters mark, but no concentration, which gets cooler in unique ways as I level up" as a general subclass mechanical foundation, but the execution was pretty far off-target.
The fact that one of the monster slayer features reads like it should be a Horizon Walker ability kinda says it all. Seriously HW should've been an anti magic, teleportation heavy class with the ability to make combat portals, and MH should've been about vulnerability creation and critical damage exploitation
I *LOVE* some of the suggestions you made regarding ways to homebrew this subclass. Imagine if instead of having a marked target feature as a bonus action (something post Tasha's ranger can just...do...without a subclass already) that you could choose a damage type and your weapon attacks do that damage type and the first time you hit on a turn it does extra damage. That synergizes with being able to figure out a monster's weaknesses so well! Might even suggest changing the magical foil to being able to cast counterspell once a day free and then can cast with spell slots for more uses.
Up to this day I can't understand why they sabotage themself with bad classes and ideas. Or limit use of YOUR ability to ONCE a long rest... like we already have a good way to balance it: You can use it a number of times that equals your prof. modifier. Like the old Dragonborn... how do you explain that they can only breath "fire" once every long rest... that is ridiculous.
I tried a monster slayer in a Descent into Avernus campaign. It was rough. Supernatural Defense saved my ass a few times, but required me to beat an enemy on initiative to be useful. Magic User's nemesis just seems to exist to foil DM plans.
While I agree with most of the weaknesses herein, one unmentioned use case for Slayer's Prey is that once you get Extra Attack, it can affect two creatures per turn from the second round onwards. First round: bonus action SP, action Attack. Second round: action Attack your SP target, bonus action switch your SP to a second creature, use Extra Attack on the new SP target. Essentially increases your average bonus damage to 7. Is this useful? I guess that depends on how many creatures your DM typically throws at you per encounter.
I really like the idea of that usage, but what worries me is that slayer's prey is too limited to do that (if I am understanding the ability that is). from what I can gather, the ability ends once you switch targets, but it doesn't say that you get multiple uses per short rests, just that it lasts until you finish one. That makes it seem like you only get one target per short rest, which I hope is wrong. I am currently playing one and will be bringing it up with the dm to get their take on the wording now that I have noticed this.
From my experience playing Monster Slayer: It's best to use Hunter's sense and Slayer's prey before combat even starts. If/When the combat starts, I just shout any v̶u̶l̶n̶e̶r̶a̶b̶i̶l̶i̶t̶i̶e̶s̶ resistances at your casters that can actually do something about them... If you actually want to play some Witcher-like character, you have to work something out with your DM (like recalling extra information from your previous studies or figuring the state of creature from it's behavior and tracks). Otherwise you'll be roleplaying a monster hunter that goes to fight a Red Dragon and proudly informs the group that fire doesn't work against him :D
Anything pales in comparison to Conjure Animals, and sometimes you don't want your ranger to be a conjurer and are optimizing with a different character concept in mind.
Tell me what you think of this idea. Make the Slayer's Prey damage a choice of damage types. This gives it some distinction from Hunter's Mark and allows it to combo with Hunter's Sense. Also, make Hunter's Sense a free action and usable as proficiency bonus or Wisdom modifier per long rest. Making it a bonus action is clunky as it competes directly with Slayer's Prey, Hunter's Mark, and Two-Weapon Fighting.
When they rebalanced player races and monsters for the monsters of multiverse expansion collection at the start of this year, I was so disappointed that they didn't take the chance to update the xanathars subclasses at the same time. The worst part is how easy it is to see a horizon walker and a slayer that could be good. Just remove the bonus actions on their level 3 features, make their short rest features be proficiency bonus per long rest. Give the slayer variable damage types for the Pokemon feel and scale its damage up a bit at level 11. Done, that's all it takes for them to be good subclasses.
Giving the class every damage type in addition to the knowledge of what to use wouldn't be very fun, it would be functionally "every creature has weakness to your attacks". I think that the designer thought they would be encouraging teamwork forcing you to rely on your party to take advantage of your feature, but really IMO you should have limited access to every element but not really, maybe like some different spells you could take so maybe sometimes you could have prepared the wrong ones but with some forethought you could always use your knowledge
Slayer's Counter is definitely a good feature against spellcasters and such. I don't think it saves the subclass, but it's definitely worth considering more than just "You still take damage", because it can cover your weaker saving throws against a boss a lot of the time.
They should roll together the "read vulnerabilities" and "do extra damage." As a Bonus Action you analyze a foe for weaknesses and prepare to exploit them. You find any vulnerabilities a target may have, and your attacks do an extra d6 of that damage type to that target.
The argument that the DM can just give you useful info for the monster weaknesses ability goes double for horizon walker. It's free reign for the DM to throw weird extra planar critters at the party and wave a giant red flag when the party steps within a half mile of the plot. The portal detection ability is a gift for DMs running any homebrew campaign, and more then likely it will be the most crucial ranger feature for anyone running adventures from the upcoming Radiant Citadel book. Hell, take a few liberties with Candlekeep mysteries and you can use a Horizon Walker to recreate the Pagemaster movie.
I hope you look into Valdas ranger subclasses. Some of them actually look pretty decent like the anti magic one or the Robin Hood subclass that improves opp attacks
Something to note is that, rules as written, there is no limit to how many times you can mark a creature with slayer’s prey. The effect only ends if you designate a different creature, not if you use the feature again. This means that you can technically stack slayer’s prey on a creature as often as you want, so if you’re confronted with an enemy and combat does not immediately start, you can slayer’s prey them 20 times before initiative and then one shot them. Your DM probably won’t allow this, but it’s possible as far as i can tell.
Could just let players designate an elemental type when slayer's prey is used. Could even let them make all their damage come out as the same type or something. To limit it, you could say you can only pick a type that the target is vulnerable to or something, making the other feature lead into it. Obviously homebrewing a class to make it better doesn't make it better. But it could help!
this doesn't feel like what the developers were going for when they went for a monster slayer. I believe the idea is that you analyse the enemy, and then you can go craft/buy stuff that's good against that enemy (aka: batman). The extra damage seems to be: "you analyse the enemy, so you know how to hit them in the right spot to deal more damage" which elemental wouldn't fit here imo. The problem with trying to rework it is you have to not just make it mechanically good, but thematically good as well
Slayers Prey is surprisingly not as useless and anti-synergetic with CBE as you'd think because it bizarrely does NOT mandate an attack action! That means you can use SP during your *casting* turns that CBE couldnt affect anyways to...deal an extra 3.5 damage your next turn. It's still not great but it's not literally useless unlike Planar Warrior
Tell me how this makes sense: Lvl3 - “I wish you could change the damage type, that’d be thematic” Lvl7 - “1d6 to saving throws and grapple checks is ok” (just “ok”, lol, it’s basically proficiency on all saving throws that stacks with your other proficiencies, and grappling monsters are pretty common in my experience) Lvl11 - Potentially really cool, wish they could do it more often Lvl14 - Great effect, wish they could do it to any creature Conclusion: sUbClAsS-LeSs RaNgEr …what?! The majority of the criticism was aimed at the class spell list and lvl3 ability not delivering on the “exploits vulnerabilities” class concept. And you’re right about that, that would have been a really cool addition to the class. But the rest of the video is spent talking about how these abilities are niche and/or too limited, **not useless**. A niche ability is still better than no ability. How, therefore, can you call this a “subclass-less Ranger”?! Furthermore, what is with the insistence that your wisdom won’t be high enough to use banishment and slayer’s counter? You can easily start with 16 WIS, which means your DC will be 2 less than any spellcaster, and unlike stunning strike, you’re targeting CHA or making the enemy make an ability check. There’s no intrinsic reason why you couldn’t boost WIS to at least 18 either. There are plenty of Ranger spells that become much better with higher WIS too.
Agreed as a ranger player I'm just sitting here like... Why would you not expect a class to take a good score in their casting ablity? Sure Rangers aren't known for casting but they do have casting, and they get a bigger selection later on.
I believe that vulnerabilities MUST EXIST! If a creature has 2 or more resistances or an immunity it should have a vulnerability. And i actually do this at my table. I homebrew every powerful creature to have a vulnerability that makes sense. This makes it fun for a wizard or sorcerer to find that element and deal damage. Meanwhile the martials are doing neutral and consistent damage!!!
I got it. Gift of the Chromatic Dragon. Since finding a meaningful "vulnerability" will be rare, the Chromatic Gift's 1/long rest mini-Elemental Weapon could come in handy. This and War Caster + Polearm Master + Sentinel with Booming Blade with Shillelagh. A higher WIS benefits magic-user nemesis. Then to make a save, you use a reaction to make an attack as the capstone feature, and deal that sweet extra 1d6.
I actually made a revision for the monster hunter which I can link if anyone is interested. It was designed for a melee ranger in my party. In summary the main things I changed were; Completely revamped spell list including counterspell and a bunch of smite spells (to act as the witcher style covering your weapons in specific damage types). You add your prof bonus to the damage of slayers prey, and the ability is explicitly magical. Hunters sense has additional options added to it and could be used as part of an attack, but it could only be used on your slayers prey target. Supernatural defence is now a reaction and can add a d8 to a saving throw or your AC when affected by the target of your slayers prey (adds a bigger boost to more things but only get it once a round rather than passively). Magic users nemesis is thrown out entirely in favour of improved slayers prey. You always know the location of your slayers prey, when you deal the extra damage from slayers prey the target also needs to make a saving throw against being pushed back and knocked prone, and whenever the target of your slayers prey makes an attack against a creature other than you you can use your reaction to attack your slayers prey. The 15th level feature is subject to change but currently it is basically evasion for all saving throws that the target of your slayers prey forces your to make.
Seeing a lot of here in the comments hating on slayer but I figure I will throw my two cents in here. I played a Monster Slayer Ranger from level 3-16 in a year-long campaign and had a good time. I had standard array and variant human taking the sharpshooter feat, and archery as fighting style. I feel like this video is trying to fit Monster slayer into any ranger build or game but where it shines is as a Boss Monster killer. Slayer's Prey is what the class builds on throughout your progression as it grants extra damage, additional defenses, until you can make an attack as a reaction if they force you to make a saving throw. If you're level 15 and are up against a Mind flayer, use slayer's prey to get some extra damage as you attack, and if he uses his Mind Blast on you, you get a free attack as an reaction and if you hit, (which prof +5 dex +5 archery +2 minimum of +12, against their AC of 16, you could roll a 4) and just pass your saving throw, taking half damage and not get stunned. Like I said I was a long range archer and I did pump up my Wis for saving throws among other things, I didn't have insane stats starting out. I successfully banished a red Genie making us win an entire encounter round one. I also feel like, if Banishment is just a poor spell, why shouldn't the ranger have it? That way casters can Concentrate on better spells, either buffs or debuffs. Though I'll admit I didn't always use it to Banish demons, fey or elemental, sometimes I just used it to delete powerful creatures off the battlemap. Because it doesn't matter how bad your DC is if your foe's charisma score is in the red. We were fighting a Remorhaz when a second one unburried itself from the snow, one action later and it was gone, because beasts and Monstrosities have bad charisma stats. So we could just kill the first one in peace. That same session I then used Magic-User's Nemesis on a Sorceress when she tried to misty step out of a grapple, only to spend her next turn being kicked around by the party (because Sorcerers don't get Prof with Wis saving throws). I also had a flying mount which made movement and range a non-issue for my character, able to dart in and out of Range for Slayer's prey with ease. One time I cast Protection from Evil and Good on my mount as we faced off against a fiend, who then cast fear on me and my mount, but due to my spell and me hitting them with Slayer's Counter I got free damage and we both "pass the save". Tons of potential with this Subclass, I had a Blast playing it but each to their own. This is my experience with the subclass. But calling it the worst Ranger Subclass feels a bit forced.
I personally like Monster Slayer and I'm playing one now. The suggestions I'm getting from this video are valid. What I'm getting is: 1. Hunter's Sense as a free action(minium as a bonus action) but modifying your attack type to damage to take advantage of the vulnerability. 2. Slayer's Prey is a D6 at level 6, a D8 at level 10, A D10 at level 15, and a D12 at level 17. Supernatural Defense scales at this same progression. 3. Supernatural defense as a reaction based ability or at least equal to the ranger's proficiency bonus 4. Magic User's Nemesis against all magic users at a cost of a reaction. Perhaps ranger's spell save DC and a D4. You can use it equal to your proficiency bonus. Thank you for your analysis, I hope that Wizards of the Coast allows for game testing before 5.5 comes out.
I played at a table where rangers had access to a diet wildshape (similar to how paladins get Chanel divinity) and after lv6 they could consume their wildshape to deal +1d4 elemental damage with their weapons for a short time (improving to 1d6 and 1d8 at later levels). I really liked the flavour, it looked like a druidic bloodhunter and it made a lot of sense...
I think that if you remember that 5e is a team game. We don't have to be stand alone characters. So by us calling out .. its Immune to fire and vulnerable to cold. This helps everyone. They don't waste their fire spells. If they have a cold spell or item they use that. Hunters Prey 1d6 should be elemental damage which can be swapped out so the ranger can benefit from the knowledge
Hunter’s sense is good for investigation. That old barovian woman over there is being weird and giving away free candy to children. I use hunter’s sense to confirm she’s not human. I ask the DM what I know of that can shape shift and has these resistances and weaknesses. I roll I learn she’s a hag. (This happened in our game in some form or another so many times.)
I do find that since Tasha's both Horizon Walker and Monster Slayer got slightly buffed due to the new Favourite Foe optional feature. Because previously the 3rd level bonus action feature clashed with Hunters Mark and Crossbow Expert. Still, the Monster Slayer is the most confusing ranger class for me - the name invokes a cool monster hunter, but the features don't really back it up. I'd rather play a Hunter Ranger and theme them as a monster slayer.
Tasha's didn't provide any lasting benefits to Ranger. In most class breakdowns it still ranks 12 of 13. I have seen it as high as 10 though when only considering the first 10 levels of game play.
@@peterwhitcomb8315 @Peter Whitcomb I personally think Tasha's changes are pretty big. Particularly the level 10 Nature's Veil feature - bonus action invisibility for a turn can be incredibly strong - you avoid opportunity attacks, gain advantage on your attacks and most enemies have disadvantage to attack you.
...you know that 5e, like TTRPGs in general, is a group game, right? Monster Ranger's Hunter's Sense doesn't need for the Ranger to do the damage, but rather his knowledge aiding the group he's with. And it is such a nice ability for the more cooperative part of 5e, where some systems don't open this space or forces a roll, you just gain important information on the spot. Sadly, it's an action, so it plummets your usefulness on the first turn of the combat. I don't think an ability this powerful could be a free action, but as a bonus action, it's 100% fine. And yeah, Monster Slayer is probably the worst subclass for Ranger. The spells require you to invest on Wisdom to use its more potent spells (which is now doable with Druidic Champion PAM + Shield Quarterstaff, but not that great), most of its abilities are focused solely on the target of the Slayer's Prey which forces you to go with the single-target Hunter's Mark route and while it *does*have one of the most potent abilities in the game with Hunter's Sense and some alright spells, the requirement to invest on Wisdom for most things to work make it a really difficult subclass to work with outside of a specific gimmick. It's not as bad as other examples of "bad subclasses" (especially compared to Banneret, that's probably the worst subclass in the entire game) and it can work on average game, but it's a rough one. Weirdly enough to see it coming from Xanathar, the book that gave amazing subclasses for most classes, including the Ranger with Gloom Stalker.
BUT KOBALD!! There are times when banishment is better then conjure animals. If your fighting one creature who doesn’t have legendary resistance and either has a bad save, or someone can help it fail like silvery barbs or portent, it is better then conjure animals and it can instantly end the fight. Or if the enemy has AOEs. Yeah this isn’t goin to be the case most of the time, but it’s not like a super rare thing either. Having banishment is really good.
Hunter's sense is Metagaming as a class feature. If your fighting a monster your character has no business knowing what it does, you use this as an excuse to know how to handle it. It's handy that way. With all the extra HB stuff PT would give a MS ranger with this, I would absolutely play this. Change the bonus damage from Slayer's prey from weapon damage to an element of the rangers choice to take advantage of vulnerabilities learned from Hunter's Sense.. Slayers prey isn't concentration, and you don't have to renew it every turn. So it stacks with Hunter's Mark, if you're fighting a Boss over a big fight. Change Nemesis to 1 successful use per short rest.
With the addition of druidic warrior there are elemental options for rangers. Also there are consumables that the monster slayer can use. Acid and fire options, Even a torch does 1 fire damage that stacks with hunters mark. Rangers are also a great class for poison collection and having an auto detect immunity can help that area too. I am not saying its not better than any other ranger but there are ways to make it work.
Banishment is great from a roleplay perspective in case your character ever gets sent to another plane of existence against their will. If your DM actually does this to you, they're probably a jerk and you need to stop playing with them (unless they know you have this option to get back), but if you think about it from an in-universe perspective, your character doesn't know that being sent away like that would be a breach of a social contract among beings in a higher state of reality, so having this reassurance that they can return is pretty nice.
Proposed edit on Hunter‘s Sense: As a Bonus Action, you can tap into your knowledge of fighting beasts. To learn the weaknesses, resistances and immunities of target creature you can see within 60 feet of you, you must make a successful nature or survival check (DC 8 + target CR rounded up). As Part of this bonus action, you can also use Apply Element. Apply Element: As a bonus action, you imbue your weapon with one of the following damage types: fire, cold, acid, force, lightning or thunder. Your weapon deals damage of that type instead of its normal one until the end of your turn. - With this, you could bypass resistance/immunity to profane damage types or even exploit an elemental weakness of a target. It provides something to use as a bonus action, that does not require a spellslot. I feel like your idea here, Kobold, nicely fits the spirit of „Monster Slayer“. It’s also not considered divination magic, that the creature could be shielded against. And you can use it as often as you like? - Edit: fixed typos. I’m on mobile.
Fire Hawk 1st level evocation spell Casting time: Instantaneous Range: 60 feet Duration: until start of caster’s next turn Make a ranged spell attack, on hit the target takes 1d6 fire damage. If the target is struck by an attack of opportunity before the caster's next turn, they will take a further 1d6 fire damage. This spell can be cast at a higher level, adding an extra 1d6 to the initial attack for each level. Druid, Ranger Your welcome
I would love to see monsters given genuine and specific weaknesses, maybe even add a new section to Stat blocks just to call them out. It doesn't even need to be a legit weakness but just the key to get around their greatest strengths. Like, a troll's Stat block could call out that their regeneration is canceled out by fire and acid, and a kobolds would call out sunlight sensitivity. Then, assuming you give more creatures real weaknesses, a class like the monster slayer could be allowed to just read that section and any relevant features and traits. Of course, Monster Slayer still needs to get a tool to actually taje advantage of this knowledge.
Can you review/calculate the Fighter’s Rune Knight subclass? I want to review a RAW optimization: - Step 1: Confirm with your DM the “creating monsters” rules in the DMG. Each size a weapon increases is a dice multiplier. Also, if your creature’s size is 1 less you have disadvantage attacking with the weapon, and 2 sizes can’t wield it. For the final example, we will be using a Gargantuan Greatsword (8d6+Str). - Step 2.1: Choose an Orc or similar. With Powerful Build, you count as one size larger (Large) when it comes to carrying capacity and weapons. With the DMG rule, a Medium Orc can wield Large weapons and have disadvantage with Huge. - Step 2.2: If Powerful Build doesn’t work this way, choose Fairy for the racial spell Enlarge. You can cast this after using Giant’s Might, since GM only affects size if you aren’t already Large, Enlarge works from your current size, and as a non-Spell and spell the two can stack. - Step 3: Great Weapon Fighting allows you to reroll all 1s and 2s, *which is a calculation I’d love to see.* This works with the additional damage dice from size increases. - Step 4: Giant’s Might sets your size to Large (Powerful Build to Huge, disadvantage with Gargantuan), and once a round adds 1d6 to your weapon/unarmed attack (worded differently than Enlarge, which only affects weapons enlarged by the spell). - Step 5.1: Take the Fire Rune. If you hit with your weapon, the target rolls a Strength Saving Throw or become restrained until it makes the save at the end of its turn. Restraint imposed advantage against it, so you can now wield your weapon normally. - Step 5.2: If you don’t want to risk Fire Rune missing or failing to restrain, use the Shove action instead. As a strength based contest, Giant’s Might gives you advantage. Use this to knock a target prone, and gain advantage against them. Once you get Extra Attack, you can Shove and then strike. - Step 6: After you get advantage against the target to negate disadvantage, use Action Surge to deal more Extra Attacks with a weapon 1 size larger than your carrying capacity. (RAW, once at least 1 each applies, always treat it as a neutral roll; although Silvery Barbs and others can affect). Optional 1: At level 4, take Skill Expert to hey Athletics Expertise, and have easier shoves. *I recommend this one.* Optional 2: use the Frost Rune to increase Strength checks by +2. Shoves are that much more likely to succeed. Optional 3: Use the Storm Rune to impose disadvantage on either the Fire Rune save or the Shove contest. --------- Bleached-White Room calcs: +4 Str, Action Surge, all attacks and saves work in your favor, no Crits. Level 5, Fire Rune hits and restrains, all attacks hit: 33d6+16 slashing and 4d6 Fire by the start of its following turn. Level 5, Shove succeeds, all attacks hit, no Fire Rune: 25d6+12 slashing. Skipping to level 11 adds a third Extra Attack and boosts GM damage, increasing both calcs above by 15d6+1d8+8 slashing. Skipping to level 20, GM changes from +1d8 to +1d10, you gain a fourth Extra Attack (+16d6+8), and grow to Huge (wield Gargantuan normally, either no advantage needed or Crit fish). *How you can help:* 1. Great Weapon Fighting calcs. What’s the average of Xd6 if you reroll 1-2 once? 2. Disadvantage with the initial attack for Fire Rune. 3. Enemy AC and Strength Saves for Fire Rune. 4. Shove contests with and without Expertise. 5. Frost and Storm Runes for Fire Rune and Shoving; are they worth it? 6. If the initial hit/shove fails, for each level of Extra Attack, is it worth it to try again or fight with disadvantage? 7. For each level of Extra Attack, is it better to wield one size smaller and have no disadvantage at all? And at what point would you fish for advantage?
What about Hunter conclave Ranger? The moment you pick the sub class you get: ‘Colossus slayer’ once per turn, if you make a weapon attack against an opponent who is already taken damage, add an extra 1D8 to your attack. ‘Giant killer’ provided you can see the creature, if a large or larger creature attacks you, regardless of if it’s a hit or a miss and you are within 5 feet you can use a reaction to make an attack on them. (which could means ‘colossus slayer’ being added) And ‘Horde breaker’ once per turn, if you make a weapon attack on a creature, and another creature is 5 feet from that target you can attack The other creature. (which again could mean colossus slayer on at least one of them)
I would've loved a martial class that could pick different damage types for weapon attacks! Even if there was a price tag (like buying gems to attach to the weapon) that would've been awesome!
I played this in Rime of the Frostmaiden. And to be as good as everyone else my DM did a lot of changes. One of which was something you said, that the scanning ability be a free action once per turn to see abilities and stuff of enemies.
I want to share a build that I did with this subclass and had a lot of fun with, and in certain encounters allowed me to tank better than the party's barbarian and fighter. I had a monster slayer hobgoblin (Monsters of Multiverse) with mostly Tasha's rules and the Shield Master feat. Fortune from the Many synergizes well with Supernatural Defense, giving good additional bonuses to saving throws. With dex saving throws, being already good because it is my main stat, no fireball ever touched me because of shield master. With expertise in athletics I also could use offensively the feat, so between knocking people prone, the Fey Gift feature, Hunter Sense and the subclass spellcasting, I became an appreciated all round support. I don't think that the subclass is terrible, but it needs more in order to feel consistent, and the fact that its focus is mainly defensive doesn't help it to stand out compared to the others.
My DM made a homebrew class that's based on Monster Slayer that is basically a pull from Witcher. Basically a watered down DND Witcher. Small glyph spells they can use for fire damage, electrical, force damage, things like that.
My favourite character to date used the original unearthed arcana monster hunter (which was originally implemented for fighter) and I had a huge amount of fun with that. I'm not sure on the viability of the class but having superiority die really helped
My thoughts about the Monster Slayer is: combine it with the Hunter, take the best, make it synergize. I like the mental image of a slow hunt: So with Hunters Sense instead of having to see the creature, you can track it and prepare yourself. (which is also usefull for the party) Then maybe giving the class some alchemy option, (like in the Witcher) where you can prepare Weapon Oils to change the dmg type of your attacks. If you decide to want to play into the Witcher Theme and go meele: have your meele reach cout for large creatures as one more. (you could say that instead of going in and attacking, you use the creatures wide movements to hit it). This should just be an additional feature ontop tho, not replacing anything. Maybe you can extrend that to "infitie meele attack reactions" (as a worse Sentinel Feat) or something, idk. I'm no homebrewing expert.
Give the Monster Slayer access to the Elemental Weapon spell. Let it replace *Magic Circle*, which is a circumstantial spell in a critical spell list relative to the level of the character. Add a Bonus Action EW cast if the character successfully activates Supernatural Defense by succeeding on the save or ability check. This bonus cast option will exist until the end the the characters next turn.
I have a two Rangers in my one campaign, one is the Monster Slayer (MS) and the other a TCE Beast Master (BM). The MS is doing crazy work but it's more from the TCE changes than the MS subclass. The BM is doing well but they're a newer player and still learning the ropes. So the question is, what would you do to fix MS? Just follow the suggestions in the video or would there be some massive changes to how it works?
Honestly. I have a monster slayer on my campaign for curse of strahd and it really helps the players. She uses hunters sense outside of battle to foil any plans of vampires, werewolves,.. fucking angels! She always finds the hidden people and tells the party how to kill them. Pretty useful if you ask me.
A neat way to get use out of Hunter's Sense would be to give the subclass the Chromatic Orb spell. This has some issues (Doesn't feel too ranger-y, costly component, etc) but I like the spirit of it. Perhaps retooling the bonus action damage ability to change damage type or something is more elegant
- 1d6 damage Every turn not just once and not having to spend an action every time. - 1d6 on saving throws, HUGE bonus Better than a concentration less bless ! - a chance to shut down not just spells but even non spell teleportations a Wisdom save of DC 15 isnt that small , it sucks that it require a save and a legendary resistance will bypass it. but this mosty used as an Oh shit lets save everyone or oh shit its getting away. both are great 1 to burn legendary resistance and the other to not let them run away after the tables have turned. I got it to work on a demon prince :D - a reaction Attack that can Make you auto save !!! AUTO SAVE + DAMAGE !!!! never heard off. maybe the devenation but even with a 20 on the die if you cant meet the DC you fail. THIS can save a DC of 50 if it just hits !!! and if there is an encounter where you feel you throw everything at the creature and its not working this can save you trouble. and as a starter to the final BBGE fight it isnt a bad action to spend where every damage will matter. Do wish it was part of the slayer foe thing. you can never say its a bad subclass
I do a little homebrew change to adress the vulnerability or resistance bypass. Simply, when they get their extra 1d6 of damage from Slayers Prey I allow them to pick the damage type of the extra 1d6
Slayer of the Weak Starting at 3rd level, you can focus your ire on one foe, using it's weakness against it. As a bonus action, you designate one creature you can see as the target of this feature. The first time each turn that you hit that target with a weapon attack, it takes extra 1d6 damage of the type of a known weakness the target has. If you don't know any the damage will be force instead. This benefits lasts until you finish a short or long rest. It ends early if you designate a different creature.
Or instead of force could just be the weapon's damage. But anyway this helps a lot the sinergy, and also gives a good reason for hunter's sense to be limited as this would make for more roleplay ways to come to know the enemies weaknesses.
Magic users nemesis => There is no escape At 11th level, you gain the ability to thwart someone else's attempts at escaping. When you see a creature getting out of your range or line of sight be it by magical or physical means you can try to prevent it by magically tempting the creature to accept their fate and stand their ground. The creature must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw against your spell save DC, or its attempt at fleeing is ceased, if by physical means they can't hide and their speed becomes zero, if by magical their spell is wasted. You can do so a number of times equal to your wisdom, recovering those with a long rest.
Slayers counter is ok, now about supernatural defense I would just allow it to be added at any effect brought upon you that the creature with that slayer's prey is active.
You do realize that Slayer's Prey requires one bonus action for A SINGLE TURN per creature??? This means that after the first turn where you select your Slayer's Prey, you are free to use your bonus action as you like and still have the same target active!!! I do think that with mild changes to this subclass's later features as you mentioned, it's better than PHB Hunter, because interacting with spells is far better than multiattack defense and a conditional multiattack (that doesn't do anything when you're against a single beefy target).
You said you don’t like martial classes, but you keep covering Rangers. I get that they’re still half casters, but where are our cleric / bard / sorcerer subclass analysis. But great vid, keep it up!
@@fadeleaf845 Yeah, I didn't phrase it correctly. He said in one of his videos that spells are such an enormous advantage that those who can't cast them just can't keep up. This is true, but until caster reach around 5th level, unless they min max, martials usually win. The reason for this is their health pool : D&D is a team game, one person tanks and the other damages, that's why they get outclassed in a powerbuilder's eye.
I gotta say, despite it’s Bonus action to activate its Slayers Prey feature and getting that extra d6 a turn, it’s FAR better than say Gloomstalker that only gets it once a combat. If anything, this class is great to multiclass into if you’re going for dps with a rogue. You get that extra d6 once an attack, and if you got hunters mark, that’s an extra d6, then if you sneak attack, boom, extra d6 to add.
Thematically I'd argue it makes sense design wise that you can tell people what its weak to. And fire arrows, while suboptimal, is a way to get fire damage.
Um no option to take advantage of vulnerabilities Spell options Ensnaring strike 1st lvl piercing+restraint Zephyr strike 1st lvl spell force Flame arrow 3rd lvl spell fire Lightning arrow 3rd lvl spell lightning Mundane options Poison vil/poisoner feat poison+sleep if Acid vil acid
I can think of a few ways to buff this class up to be a bit more fun/enjoyable/usable This class could be so much more interesting, just off of the 3rd level abilities, I'd make two changes personally. First off I'd make Hunter's Sense a once per round free action but nerf it's ability, only learning 1 immunity, 1 resistance and 1 vulnerability per use, as well as how many unknown remain. Instead of learning an immunity, resistance and vulnerability you can instead learn 1 trait or feature that the creature has. I would then buff Slayer's prey, if you know of a vulnerability, you can instead do 1d4+Wisdom damage of a known vulnerability type instead of the extra 1d6. Supernatural defence could additionally add a reaction for 1d4 to an ally within 30 foot that needs to make a saving throw or ability check to escape the Slayer's Prey target but you can no longer benefit from this feature until the end of your next turn. Magic-User's Nemesis, just make it usable to proficiency times per day instead. It's already level 11, so it'd start with 4 uses and quickly get to 5 uses at 13. Additional buff, on a failure can expand a further use of the feature to roll an arcana check against the creatures spell save DC to gain knowledge of where the creature teleported from and where too, so if it teleported through a wall, you know where it ended out or came from. Additionally for this check, if you lack arcana proficiency, you gain it for this check, else wise if you do have proficiency you gain advantage on the check.
That's why (and this is not a solution for the subclass) i engineered the Monster Slayer DELUXE Multiclass Monster Slayer with Ascendant Dragon Monk. Benefits: Hunter's sense is useless? Not anymore (partially), now with your 3rd Level Monk Feature you can adapt and transform your Unarmed Strikes damage to Fire, Lighting, Thunder, and the rest of the Dragon Damage Types to adapt to any monster. Your party can adapt to handle Radiant or Necrotic if need be. Your Wisdom Sucks as a Ranger? Not anymore! Dex and Wis are your main stats now, because your AC depends on them, extra movement and stunning strike, so your saves are WAAAY better now. (It still sucks that you can only use it once per short rest, but well...) If you can find a lenient DM to let you use Hunter's sense as a Bonus Action or Free Action, you can actually act in the first round of combat. It sucks that only way to kind-of salvage this subclass is to outright change into another class, but it does offer a good alternative. You can even play with a Shortbow, with Monk's Dedicated Weapon.
1:55 For me: Free action for the basics. Bonus Action for the AC. Action and a History/Survival check equal to 2x the monster’s CR for the saving throws, Legendary Resistances, and spell slots (you get BA info anyways).
I think monster slayer is the worst ranger subclass but I do think these abilities can come to interesting tactics alongside the base ranger features. With pass without trace and potentially expertise in stealth you can sneak up on your target, learn their weaknesses and resistances and even set up a buff that will do a little extra damage but more importantly protect you from the saving throws. For optimization you would probably be better off with a different subclass but this subclass offers some pretty fun and cool features.
While on the surface, this analysis is ok, it misses and undersells a lot of points and misses most nuances. From the top: Hunter's sense reveals only DAMAGE resistances, weaknesses and vulnerabilities, it does nothing for conditions and due to the cookie cutter 5e monster design, it's useless and can be ignored. Supernatural defense is more than ok, d6 to all saving throws is better than most similar abilities, only being surpassed by Aura of Protection and Diamond Soul. It's about as good as Artificer's Flash of Genius. Gives overall lower saves, has no limit, but provides this for only one source. It's not amazing, but it can be very helpful. Magic-User Nemesis is probably the worst part of the kit, only once per SR/LR. Isn't reliable due to most stuff it'd be useful against having high Wis. It's best part is foiling teleports since a lot of monsters with poor wis can teleport. Slayer's Counter is literally the single best Ranger capstone in the game. The analysis of this was baffling and incredibly wrong. What Slayer's Counter actually reads is "Use your reaction to pass a saving throw against your Slayer's Prey". If we assume a stingy DM, at lv 15 you will have at least a +2 magic bow. This means given the archery style (And you are using it if you are playing slayer) you get a +15 to that saving throw and the DC is now the foe's AC. The highest AC (without buffs)in the Game is 25, meaning that no matter what saves it targets for you, you pass with a 10 or higher. The highest DC in the game is 27 and getting a +15 to your saving throw is quite the feat, even at level 20 and it can be only in one score, whereas Counter doesn't care as long as it's your foe forcing it. AND THEN YOU GET AN ATTACK ON TOP OF THAT. If this would've been just a reaction it's be too good since it consumes no resources. There are 2 common misconceptions about Monster Slayer it seems. 1 it's offensive, but actually it focuses more on defense and passing saving throws. 2 it's weak. This one is partially true. For early levels it's by far the weakest Ranger. In a high level campaign, it's probably the strongest. (This is assuming 8 encounters per day or 4 difficult encounters per day, if your DM is doing only 1 or 2, all martials are instant F tier, go go casters)
One fix for monster slayer would be that Slayer's Prey gets overrides resistance and turns immunity into resistance for the player. So if you found a creature that was resistant to your attacks, you could pop Slayer's Prey and get full damage to your attacks which is likely more impressive than a d6. It's situationally useful which is good since it uses your bonus action which Hunter's mark also does. Don't think something is resistant to your attacks, use HMark. Think something is resistant, use Slayers. And how will you know which to use? Sneak up and use Hunter's Sense to fond out its weaknesses! Now we've got wonderful synergy between the first 2 abilities!
Also, yes, Banishment is better than Conjure Animals situationally. Conjure Animals does about 30DPR. At level 13 you're fighting things with much more than 30hp, so taking one out for an entire fight is incredibly useful. Protection from E and G is a good if not great spell. Zone of Truth is a good for social OOC. The spells aren't terrible. They're slightly below average. Magic Circle sucks (seriously, 10 effing feet radius and a 1 minute casting time? 1 of those things should have changed) and and no one ever gets to 17th level.
Gotta say that I have to strongly disagree with the critique on the 3rd level damage bonuses (I wholeheartedly agree about the missed opportunity to do magical damage, though). > Beast Master has no bonus damage at 3rd (7th grants magical beast attacks). > Drakewarden can theoretically do SOME elemental (drake's attacks deal a bit of elemental damage). > Fey Wanderer can do a measly +1d4 psych (d6 at 11th) on a weapon hit, on ONE target /turn > Gloom Stalker gets +1d8 weapon damage on hit on JUST the 1st round - not magical, JUST the 1st round. > Swarmkeeper gets +1d6 pierce (d8 at 11th) as an OPTION, on a weapon hit /turn - not magical > Hunter gets +1d8 weapon damage /turn, IF the target is wounded already - not magical I feel that HW and MS have the *strongest* 3rd level damage abilities > Horizon Walker has a +1d8 force (2d8 at 11th) AND all weapon damage is converted to force, at the cost of BA in 30ft on sight /round. It really feels like you're ignoring that TOTAL OVERRIDE of damage into magical force. If your complaint is how these subclasses make DMs give Rangers magic weapons to keep up, this one explicitly doesn't with one of the best damage types in the game. It's a resource cost and short range because it allows a 3rd level session 1 ranger to deal martial damage against creatures with magic resistance. Before the party started getting magic items, my game's HW was dumping damage more than any other class, and once they got magic items, he was keeping a steady lead on damage over most of the group. > Monster Slayer deals +1d6 weapon as BA in 60ft on sight /turn FOR THE WHOLE FIGHT until you designate another creature. It's a Bonus Action, yes, but it's only on the round you target the creature in. It's VERY unfortunate that this wasn't magical to get synergy with Prey, but this is basically Hunter's Mark without a spell slot or limited resource of any kind - Tasha's options didn't even want to go half that far (1d4 for profBonus/LR).
Alternative for slayer's prey: As a bonus action, for the next minute, you can add PB damage to your attacks. This damage can be bludgeoning piercing or slashing. You can do this proficiency bonus times per short rest. At 7th level. You can make the damage type fire, cold, acid, or lightning. At 11th level. You can make the damaged type nocratic or radiant.
devil's advocate here... as a monster slayer, you could bring holy water/alchemist's fire/vials of poison with you to target vulnerabilities. but idk if there is any equivilent for other element damage types. most people would not think to do this, though. and in some campaigns (e.g. CoS) they may not be easy to get
I like the idea of being able to add 2d4 damage of any element to a weapon for a bonus action; but taking 2 damage of that element when you select the element.
I think looking at hunters sense as only useful if it’s not a full action is missing the point, rangers are supposed to be prepared and plan out fights, why wouldn’t the ranger just stealth up to a hiding spot and use this feature BEFORE you enter combat, like that’s the whole thing a ranger does, this is like saying guidance is a bad cantrip because it takes a full action, dnd isn’t one big combat where you get no outside time
So ya I kind of do that monster hunter thing in my games cause it’s fun to give guys things like elemental attacks and buffs but with weaknesses a good example I can think of is my blue hair species. Just a slightly bigger floof that gets 2d8hp and 45ft of movement. The males have horns that can be used to zap a target within 15ft if you fail the save you are stunned to the end of ya turn however they only get it once a short or long rest. While the females get these static sparks on their whiskers making any melee attack on them do 1d4 lighting back. Resistant to lightening and thunder however they are vulnerable to water. As for the players I’ve made a plant that can be put into water to inflict a damage type if tossed or made into a oil for coating weapons changing their damage type and if made at higher tiers giving a chance to inflict a status and/or hurt more. Fire seed that at a base changes damage to fire, tier 1 just added a bonus damage die, and tier 2 marks them burn where they take a damage die of whatever hit them per turn (can stack if target keeps failing saves). Burn can be removed if hit by water or anything that would put out a fire even attack spells, or with an action. So ya full home brew stuff.
all your points are correct but you fail to mention... monster hunters are cool in all seriousness though, playing one of these in a campaign has made me pretty disappointed with what should have been an awesome archetype. making slayer's prey damage do elemental damage is genius though, that would have been an awesome route for the subclass to go
A couple things: Many of these abilities do not require use while in combat - they can, and thematically probably should, be used in preparation for combat. Hunter's Prey is a dramatically less resource limited replacement (or supplement) option for Hunter's Mark - despite the "bad" label you have for the + 1d6 bonus action spell options, they are very good in games where you cannot afford to burn all your resources early, and aren't constantly facing solitary Deadly+ threats - it cannot be overstated how massively bad rolls can cause statistically uncommon failures - abilities like this mitigate that. Supernatural Defense is VERY good when fighting monsters that have attacks that are Grapples, but also have riders - for example, a Roper's grapple, which also Restrains, will make any fight it is added to dramatically more difficult. Additionally, Searing Smite and Elemental Weapon are Tasha's added spell options, and knowing vulnerabilities, etc., doesn't mean the Ranger specifically is the one who has to exploit them. But it's also important to realize that vulnerabilities aren't actually all that common, and just knowing resistances and what to avoid is often more useful when not actually metagaming monster stats. I don't think the white room approach to subclass abilities is actually all that effective for this.
Idea: Monster Slayer gets three damage Cantrips of their choice on gaining the subclass (using WIs), and roll Advantage if exploiting a weakness revealed by Slayer's Sense. This replaces Slayer's Prey. Would let 'em lean into that Witcher Vibe more, but for most foes it's still more optimal to actually act like a martial class and stab or shoot away due to Cantrips taking a full Action (usually). Think~ it would be balanced by only working for the Hunter, and thus requiring two rounds, but seems like the obvious fix to me. At least for pure fun & cool factor.
Honestly, Horizon Walker is such an easy fix for me (Planar Warrior applies to first attack hit, no BA; Detect Portal has no limits and maybe include detecting any teleportationg at all; Ethereal Step lasts until start of next turn) but Monster Slayer feels like everything needs at least two tweaks to even be close to Tasha's subclasses. At least Detect Portal feels fun when you get it off that one time that it matters. 11th level Monster Slayers get a worse Counterspell once per short or long rest and only that. At least Horizon Walkers get a +1d8 damage increase at 11th level to Planar Warrior which means it's infinitely closer (by a very small margin, but I'll take what I can get) to CBE damage compared to Slayer's Prey.
I played a monster hunter ranger before, and I gotta say, even though it isn’t my favorite ranger, it’s still fun. The action for that first ability is annoying, and it sucks that you can’t take advantage of it. But you know who can? The sorcerer with transmuted spell, or the wizard who had decided to go with that magical spell book over being able to control time. It’s a feature that only works if your party has access to that, and does help you with team work and make you feel more like a ranger. Honestly I kinda feel like it should be a base ranger ability, or at least a class feature variant of something like favored enemy.
Honestly, replace the one time use counter spell with the level 18 feat since it would not only make it accessible earlier, but open up the last feat for something better. Maybe give them something that would actually be effective towards late game creatures like monsters that are bigger than medium sizes? Enhance their Prey feat to have different effects on different types of monsters via adding their weakness to weapons for bonus damage. While flavor wise I understand why they added the counter spell to this subclass, but in practice it is just not viable. Also I agree with the action Bs on the looking up the details. Definitely needs rework.
Damn Kobold you just hurt me in the feels. I’ve been dreaming (due to currently being DM in my group) of making a monster Hunter with the cooking feat and his goal is to sample the “meats” of different planes, cook red dragon steaks, and create a recipe for black pudding that is delicious.
Monster Slayer wants to be both the "I know your weakness and can exploit it" subclass and the "mage slayer" subclass, but sucks at both by the time they get any of their subclass features. It's like how the Mage Slayer feat only lets you attack after the spell is successfully cast and hitting doesn't interrupt the casting since the spell was already cast. The option is there, but why bother when you can have the Wizard cast Counterspell and go with a better feat/subclass? Gloomstalker gets effectively infinite Invisibility with no concentration at level 3, hell RAW PHB Beastmaster at least lets you shoot a wolf at people for a Pack Tactics advantage attack that might pull the target prone. On the subject of Ranger and capstones, doing WIS damage to one attack on a favored enemy per turn is so absurdly bad that even Monk 20's free Ki points looks good, because that's a resource you can use. Even as far as subclass capstones go, they all have to compete with at best Evasion (from Hunter) or 4 levels of a different, more front-loaded class (assuming you're jumping ship right after your level 11 subclass feature) like Fighter, Rogue, or even a full caster like Cleric/Druid for even more spell slots faster. Hell, I went into Wizard just for Arcane Recovery, and after taking Shadow Blade is capable of putting out an absurd amount of damage in a very niche circumstance. Doesn't mean it'll happen if the dice hate you and refuse to roll above a 7 for your attacks, but really anything is better than more Ranger. Even Monk dip is better than more Ranger because you get Bonus Action options and probably weren't getting that +1 Studded Leather Armor anyway.
Can I use your ideas to make a witcher subclass? Because that sounds pretty cool. Better spell choices hunter's sense as free action, either after 1st round of combat or prof/LR. Slayer's Prey As bonus action for 1 minute grant your weapon 1d6 elemental damage of choice for 1 hit each round. 11th level instead of counterspell you can cast magic circle as a standard action, it requires no material components, lasts for 1 minute. Slayer's counter - counter attack when forced save against slayer's prey, if it hits you gain advantage on save. If you aren't in range and save you take no secondary effects.
Alright, here's my rework ideas I don't think giving the players as much info as you said is a good idea, I'd personally expand it to maybe something like a rounded up/down estimate of their HP, their AC, and maybe a combat tidbit, though that's hard to define, something like "This creature has legendary actions" or "The slime it expels will give you a disease that gets worse over time and can't be cured by anything but magic" or "This thing has more than one AOE attack". Also make it within sight and a bonus action. The weirdest thing about slayer's prey is that all that it needed to do was let you choose from a short list of damage types to make the extra damage, and to make the damage die scale/let you expend spell slots to increase it's effect. Way more synergistic with it's level 3 feature. Supernatural defense. I think this needs a buff. Once per rest, when forced to make a AC or grapple check, you can immediately switch your hunter's prey target to the creature that made you do the check and apply the 1d6 with a reaction. Magic User's Nemesis. More or less what you said, maybe macke it able for you to switch your nemesis to the caster if you want to as well.
It could be a good class for the right campaign. If go to hunt one specific monster and you could stealthily look at it before battle so you get it's weaknesses and the party could plan how to aproach...
I understand trying to make things better but at most I would make the ability a Bonus Action, because Action Economy is important and being potentially able to immediately know the stats of a monster makes the encounter easier
Yeah, when I was looking to build a monster hunter, I skipped right past this subclass and just made an intelligent fighter with a chest full of tools (for making traps, countering abilities and exploiting weaknesses). Then I picked up the UA Monster Hunter subclass, and the rest is history.
I played a high combat session as a monster slayer and had nice time, but that was just because I was playing a melee ranger with zephyr strike in a relatively low impact game. Turns out melee ranger is fun, just not optimal. But getting to use my monster slayer resistances things was cool because we got sucked into a whirlpool and ran into an elder being and we were able to leave they didn’t have a body or presence because I couldn’t target them, they were the entire Demi plain we slipped into.
I still think Dnd needs more weaknesses. Every single enemy should have one weakness. Doesn't have to be a vulnerability. Sunlight sensitivity is a weakness. A good weakness. If a subclass is built around understanding enemies weaknesses, they need to have weaknesses. It's also very fun for players to figure it out.
Can't be having that now.
Wizards had spells that could be counterspelled and WoTC decided that was OP and nerfed players.
@@PH03NIX96 Yeah and also added Ashardalons Stride, the single highest potential dpt in the entire game. I actually think Kobold should do a whole video on this spell. I'll see if I can message him
Apparently they don't want players to focus solely on exploiting a monster's weaknesses, that's why they are so rare. Resistances and immunities are more common because they force you to use a different approach, while weaknesses negate any other option by virtue of being so glaringly useful compared to anything else.
The troll is virtually immune to mundane attacks because of its high regenerative powers, so in order to kill it you have to set it on fire or pour acid on it, if you don't you're basically wasting time and resources on a problem that could be solved much more easily.
Try 3rd edition. It's all there
One problem I have with it is it makes meta gaming more powerful. So long as you know what to bring to any fight to give you double damage, you can augment the difficulty of an encounter massively
The Monster Slayer should feel like the ultimate tactician, the 5-head who has a back up plan for anything they might face, pretty much the Batman of D&D. Instead we got a clunky mess with some interesting features that have been too heavily limited.
"Too heavily limited" are three of the most depressing words. At least we have something of an outline to homebrew off of, I guess, but it's just not the same as getting something well-tuned instead of over-tuned to begin with.
I mean, a Batman type character would probably be a combination of inquisitive rogue and armorer artificer, but I'm not very sure about the details.
@@maximocaseres2526 Probably an inquisitor rogue + monster slayer I'd say, since the slayer is all about coming with plans and ways to counter their foes, which is Batman to a T. He does have a back up plan to kill every member of the Justice League after all.
Monster Slayer makes you feel like Batman in the Justice League: a regular dude with some grappling hooks and boomerangs working alongside Superman, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, and The Flash.
That's not how you spell mastermind rogue
As an 11th level Monster Slayer, you can counterspell once. Then you get wizards, that can do it twice, at level 5! It automatically succeeds for lv1-3 spells and otherwise you need to beat a 10 + the spell level - your spellcasting ability (which is usually your highest ability score). This and it doesn't rely at all on how good the opposing spellcasters wisdom save is (which a large portion of spell casters likely have a large bonus to, especially if they're flinging spells of 4th level or higher) The only thing the ranger has going for it is that it's ability can't be counter spelled.
Sorcererd can counterspell withouth veing counterspelled too, so even that isn't that good.
Hi there Morgan, a DM has found a player randomly lol
It does have one other unique thing going for it, it can foil non-spell teleports, which isn't always a big deal but sometimes it can be very useful.
@@lukemoss8168 Lol hi
While the feature is still not great, Rangers get to counterspell once per short or long rest, so with the recomended two short rests per long rest they can counterspell three times per long rest.
So about spells, Zone of Truth I see come up all the time in social encounters and interrogations. It's not a combat spell but not every spell should be a combat spell.
I useally find
20% combate only spells like ( magic missle)
60% combate and role play things like (ray of frost good for combat great for a fire extinguisher)
20% role play only ( things like zone of truth)
Except it's not that good. The spell doesn't compel the target to speak. It can just stay silent, or answer in "technical truths" that don't reveal anything important. The real interrogation spell is actually Detect Thoughts.
It might be a good social spell, but the fact that it still needs a saving throw puts it a little down, since you're a ranger and your spell DC isn't usually that high.
Don't get me wrong it has its uses but you can't force someone to talk or fail this save without repercussions
@@CanaldoGreed the fighter and rouge can make them talk.
Anouther use for zone of truth is to prove you are telling the truth.
Dude I know you have other things going on and a real life in the real world outside of making videos, I just wanted to let you know we're super grateful you take the time to do these. They're fun and educational, even if the subject matter is basically a big-boy big-brain imagination game.
Thank you! I think these vids are fun to make! lol
@@PackTactics were you feeling under the weather? Your voice seemed a little tired.
@@Akario3 I always sound like that lol. But I cant remember what was going on there and then.
Worth noting about Supernatural Defense and Slayer’s Counter, they work on Concentration checks because they’re Constitution saving throws
As someone who has played a Monster Hunter for 3 years now, I agreed with this analysis. I wish that there was more synergy between Slayers Prey and Hunters Sense but I’ve enjoyed my time as a Monster Slayer just for the feel
Also Supernatural Defense and concentration checks is supreme👍
It feels like they are so afraid of making a martial class OP that they knee cap it before the game even starts 11th level you get 1 bad counter spell every short rest. A wizard can do that 6 times with some guarantees.
Obviously I'm not saying this sub class should be able to do that, I'm just pointing out that there are painful discrepancies between classes and Wizards is afraid of crossing that line
"they are so afraid of making a martial class OP", yup, meanwhile Hexblades, which is a full-caster subclass, get everything needed to be a good martial before level 6 ^^.
"they are so afraid of making a martial class OP"
Checks Paladin, Hexblade (dip), Barbarian (Zeolite and Bear), Rogue, and the feats Sentinel and PAM. I think they just had the wrong people working on Ranger. Or at least people who mechanically DO NOT understand 5E.
@@peterwhitcomb8315 paladin hexblade dip is good if you eldritch blast at range and act as a bless bot. barbs die to enemies focus firing on them if they have no way to wade out of melee, and their damage just straight up doesn't scale level 8+, finally sentinal and the third benefit of pam drop off in usefulness as opportunity attacks become less of a threat later in the game. Martials are gimped in many ways that are reasonable to point out.
I'd say base phb ranger is still good because you can get the the archery+crossbow expert + sharpshooter combo online.
@@xandolf2852
Paladin/anything are "Can't hit me at higher levels" (unless your table uses flanking, which I highly encourage because of Paladin/Bladesinger). You can even take out "the boss" in an encounter while your party focuses on any objective/minions.
Barbarian (specifically the those two sub classes) are very similar to Paladin (and Paladin-dips) in both keeping the focus on them while the party does everything else. It is harder for them to dish out "meaningful" damage at 11+ but that is more to do with them not having innate ways to get "+damage" through spells like hybrid melee.
Reactions and Bonus Actions become a very precious commodity at higher levels, I agree.
This was about melee and the OP builds that do exist. If you want to change the subject to the three archery feats, again, Ranger is still least optimal.
The Monster Slayer really needs a source of radiant damage so you feel more like a Belmont. Heck, you could just do a Divine Soul-like deal and add all the paladin spells.
I don't think having radiant damage plays into the slayer's prey feature, as you'll be forgoing any need to learn thier defenses.
I get the premise, but I feel radiant damage would make the fun redundant. I see the monster slayer more as a smart warrior with a pokedex.
I think a good feature would be allowing you to pick two elements on a short or long rest. Until your next rest, you can deal an extra 1d4 or 1d6 damage corresponding to that element, and that arrow deals that element's damage instead of piercing
The idea of doing additional elemental damage sounds pretty cool. Use a bonus action to imbue your weapon with one of 5 elemental flavors, now your weapon does that element in damage plus an extra d6 to either all attacks or once each turn. Lasts a minute and is Non concentration so you can still have fun with your ranger spells. Usable proficency bonus times per short or long rest. At level 11 it goes up to 2d6 bonus damage. This combined with the free action to scan your enemies would be something fun to play with I think.
Assuming the starting 5 elemental choices are fire, cold, acid, poison, and lightning, maybe expand the options at level 11 to include thunder, radiant, necrotic, psychic, and force as well? Even giving the subclass the ability to create some kind of consumable, like the Alchemist Artificer, that produces these effects would be a reasonable fix, and would allow the DM to either manage it by controlling the influx of ingredients or hand wave it according to their play style. Such a cool idea for a subclass squandered by lackluster abilities.
Monster slayer feels like it had no real idea for what its "thing" is. The idea of being able to pick out info on what you are fighting is neat and could have been what the class was about.
I had a homebrew I didn't end up using for Ranger of the prepared ranger. At the start of a day if you have done research on a creature you can pick a vulnerability and create a poison for that changes the damage weapons deal. A few variants of this (support ideas, self buff ideas, being able to deal vulnerability damage to creatures that normally wouldn't be able to, etc.)
I never got to the point with numbers nailed down on this, but one thing I wanted out of a ranger class was the idea of a party member who spends the start of the day putting effort to take something specific down. I ended up scrapping the thing because the game it would have been in never started, but I still think about messing with something like it from time to time.
I'd disagree on the point of momster slayer having "no clear identity". Half the features it gains as it levels up has to do with saving throws, it's main sthick is supposed to be fighting things like medusas, evil spellcasters and other supernatural threats, as it's name implies. I for one think it should lean more heavily into that
Thats a really good idea it's similar to preparing spells but its the physical side of that poisons or snares thats a cool way to make the class have more use and flavor
The name says 'Geralt', the feature's broad outlines say 'Anti-mage', the spells say 'detective' and the power level says 'not worth it'
@@ethanalspencer7294 what the fuck are you talking about?
**One** spell says "detective", the rest say "i fight fey, fiends, celestials, vampires etc"
**One** feature says "anti-mage" specifically, and even that one also work on teleportation that isin't a spell (something no fucking wizard does but something a lot of *monsters* do)
The save buffs scream "i fight vampires, medusa/basilisks, dragons, fey etc"
Say what you will about the potency of the sub itself, it has a very specific, very consistent theme
I like hunter's sense as a class feature, and in a CoS campaign I was running, it got a fair bit of use, even with the action cost- in real play often their are a few rounds worth of words exchanged or stealthy observation before initiative is actually rolled. Nothing about the flavor text suggests this ability has any observable cues (other than maybe an intense stare or something) to let NPCs or monsters know it is being used, so often the player could use the action from hiding prior to launching an attack or from the back of the party while the party face tried to talk their way out of whatever situation they were in. I like this iteration of the "out of combat gather tactical info" ability much better than some earlier attempts, such as the battlemaster version where you need to sit down with the beholder and have tea and scones for an hour only to find out that it has more hps that 52 and more intelligence than 8 or whatever.
I do hard agree that the overall subclass is pretty much junk, though. I really like the basic idea of "at will hunters mark, but no concentration, which gets cooler in unique ways as I level up" as a general subclass mechanical foundation, but the execution was pretty far off-target.
The fact that one of the monster slayer features reads like it should be a Horizon Walker ability kinda says it all.
Seriously HW should've been an anti magic, teleportation heavy class with the ability to make combat portals, and MH should've been about vulnerability creation and critical damage exploitation
I *LOVE* some of the suggestions you made regarding ways to homebrew this subclass. Imagine if instead of having a marked target feature as a bonus action (something post Tasha's ranger can just...do...without a subclass already) that you could choose a damage type and your weapon attacks do that damage type and the first time you hit on a turn it does extra damage. That synergizes with being able to figure out a monster's weaknesses so well!
Might even suggest changing the magical foil to being able to cast counterspell once a day free and then can cast with spell slots for more uses.
Up to this day I can't understand why they sabotage themself with bad classes and ideas. Or limit use of YOUR ability to ONCE a long rest... like we already have a good way to balance it: You can use it a number of times that equals your prof. modifier.
Like the old Dragonborn... how do you explain that they can only breath "fire" once every long rest... that is ridiculous.
I tried a monster slayer in a Descent into Avernus campaign. It was rough. Supernatural Defense saved my ass a few times, but required me to beat an enemy on initiative to be useful.
Magic User's nemesis just seems to exist to foil DM plans.
While I agree with most of the weaknesses herein, one unmentioned use case for Slayer's Prey is that once you get Extra Attack, it can affect two creatures per turn from the second round onwards. First round: bonus action SP, action Attack. Second round: action Attack your SP target, bonus action switch your SP to a second creature, use Extra Attack on the new SP target. Essentially increases your average bonus damage to 7. Is this useful? I guess that depends on how many creatures your DM typically throws at you per encounter.
I really like the idea of that usage, but what worries me is that slayer's prey is too limited to do that (if I am understanding the ability that is). from what I can gather, the ability ends once you switch targets, but it doesn't say that you get multiple uses per short rests, just that it lasts until you finish one. That makes it seem like you only get one target per short rest, which I hope is wrong. I am currently playing one and will be bringing it up with the dm to get their take on the wording now that I have noticed this.
From my experience playing Monster Slayer: It's best to use Hunter's sense and Slayer's prey before combat even starts. If/When the combat starts, I just shout any v̶u̶l̶n̶e̶r̶a̶b̶i̶l̶i̶t̶i̶e̶s̶ resistances at your casters that can actually do something about them...
If you actually want to play some Witcher-like character, you have to work something out with your DM (like recalling extra information from your previous studies or figuring the state of creature from it's behavior and tracks). Otherwise you'll be roleplaying a monster hunter that goes to fight a Red Dragon and proudly informs the group that fire doesn't work against him :D
Anything pales in comparison to Conjure Animals, and sometimes you don't want your ranger to be a conjurer and are optimizing with a different character concept in mind.
which is pretty irrelevant, ceiling not floor
Tell me what you think of this idea. Make the Slayer's Prey damage a choice of damage types. This gives it some distinction from Hunter's Mark and allows it to combo with Hunter's Sense. Also, make Hunter's Sense a free action and usable as proficiency bonus or Wisdom modifier per long rest. Making it a bonus action is clunky as it competes directly with Slayer's Prey, Hunter's Mark, and Two-Weapon Fighting.
When they rebalanced player races and monsters for the monsters of multiverse expansion collection at the start of this year, I was so disappointed that they didn't take the chance to update the xanathars subclasses at the same time.
The worst part is how easy it is to see a horizon walker and a slayer that could be good. Just remove the bonus actions on their level 3 features, make their short rest features be proficiency bonus per long rest. Give the slayer variable damage types for the Pokemon feel and scale its damage up a bit at level 11. Done, that's all it takes for them to be good subclasses.
Giving the class every damage type in addition to the knowledge of what to use wouldn't be very fun, it would be functionally "every creature has weakness to your attacks". I think that the designer thought they would be encouraging teamwork forcing you to rely on your party to take advantage of your feature, but really IMO you should have limited access to every element but not really, maybe like some different spells you could take so maybe sometimes you could have prepared the wrong ones but with some forethought you could always use your knowledge
Slayer's Counter is definitely a good feature against spellcasters and such. I don't think it saves the subclass, but it's definitely worth considering more than just "You still take damage", because it can cover your weaker saving throws against a boss a lot of the time.
They should roll together the "read vulnerabilities" and "do extra damage."
As a Bonus Action you analyze a foe for weaknesses and prepare to exploit them. You find any vulnerabilities a target may have, and your attacks do an extra d6 of that damage type to that target.
Id prefer something with higher average damage on that.
The argument that the DM can just give you useful info for the monster weaknesses ability goes double for horizon walker. It's free reign for the DM to throw weird extra planar critters at the party and wave a giant red flag when the party steps within a half mile of the plot.
The portal detection ability is a gift for DMs running any homebrew campaign, and more then likely it will be the most crucial ranger feature for anyone running adventures from the upcoming Radiant Citadel book. Hell, take a few liberties with Candlekeep mysteries and you can use a Horizon Walker to recreate the Pagemaster movie.
I'd love to buff this subclass as a DM to have a witcher feel!
Maybe even add a grease mechanic to imbibe your weapon or ammunition
I hope you look into Valdas ranger subclasses. Some of them actually look pretty decent like the anti magic one or the Robin Hood subclass that improves opp attacks
Something to note is that, rules as written, there is no limit to how many times you can mark a creature with slayer’s prey. The effect only ends if you designate a different creature, not if you use the feature again. This means that you can technically stack slayer’s prey on a creature as often as you want, so if you’re confronted with an enemy and combat does not immediately start, you can slayer’s prey them 20 times before initiative and then one shot them. Your DM probably won’t allow this, but it’s possible as far as i can tell.
Could just let players designate an elemental type when slayer's prey is used. Could even let them make all their damage come out as the same type or something.
To limit it, you could say you can only pick a type that the target is vulnerable to or something, making the other feature lead into it.
Obviously homebrewing a class to make it better doesn't make it better. But it could help!
this doesn't feel like what the developers were going for when they went for a monster slayer. I believe the idea is that you analyse the enemy, and then you can go craft/buy stuff that's good against that enemy (aka: batman). The extra damage seems to be: "you analyse the enemy, so you know how to hit them in the right spot to deal more damage" which elemental wouldn't fit here imo. The problem with trying to rework it is you have to not just make it mechanically good, but thematically good as well
The problem is that you need to homebrew it in the first place.
Slayers Prey is surprisingly not as useless and anti-synergetic with CBE as you'd think because it bizarrely does NOT mandate an attack action!
That means you can use SP during your *casting* turns that CBE couldnt affect anyways to...deal an extra 3.5 damage your next turn. It's still not great but it's not literally useless unlike Planar Warrior
Tell me how this makes sense:
Lvl3 - “I wish you could change the damage type, that’d be thematic”
Lvl7 - “1d6 to saving throws and grapple checks is ok” (just “ok”, lol, it’s basically proficiency on all saving throws that stacks with your other proficiencies, and grappling monsters are pretty common in my experience)
Lvl11 - Potentially really cool, wish they could do it more often
Lvl14 - Great effect, wish they could do it to any creature
Conclusion: sUbClAsS-LeSs RaNgEr
…what?! The majority of the criticism was aimed at the class spell list and lvl3 ability not delivering on the “exploits vulnerabilities” class concept. And you’re right about that, that would have been a really cool addition to the class. But the rest of the video is spent talking about how these abilities are niche and/or too limited, **not useless**. A niche ability is still better than no ability. How, therefore, can you call this a “subclass-less Ranger”?!
Furthermore, what is with the insistence that your wisdom won’t be high enough to use banishment and slayer’s counter? You can easily start with 16 WIS, which means your DC will be 2 less than any spellcaster, and unlike stunning strike, you’re targeting CHA or making the enemy make an ability check. There’s no intrinsic reason why you couldn’t boost WIS to at least 18 either. There are plenty of Ranger spells that become much better with higher WIS too.
Agreed as a ranger player I'm just sitting here like... Why would you not expect a class to take a good score in their casting ablity? Sure Rangers aren't known for casting but they do have casting, and they get a bigger selection later on.
I believe that vulnerabilities MUST EXIST! If a creature has 2 or more resistances or an immunity it should have a vulnerability. And i actually do this at my table. I homebrew every powerful creature to have a vulnerability that makes sense.
This makes it fun for a wizard or sorcerer to find that element and deal damage.
Meanwhile the martials are doing neutral and consistent damage!!!
I got it. Gift of the Chromatic Dragon. Since finding a meaningful "vulnerability" will be rare, the Chromatic Gift's 1/long rest mini-Elemental Weapon could come in handy.
This and War Caster + Polearm Master + Sentinel with Booming Blade with Shillelagh. A higher WIS benefits magic-user nemesis.
Then to make a save, you use a reaction to make an attack as the capstone feature, and deal that sweet extra 1d6.
I actually made a revision for the monster hunter which I can link if anyone is interested. It was designed for a melee ranger in my party. In summary the main things I changed were;
Completely revamped spell list including counterspell and a bunch of smite spells (to act as the witcher style covering your weapons in specific damage types).
You add your prof bonus to the damage of slayers prey, and the ability is explicitly magical.
Hunters sense has additional options added to it and could be used as part of an attack, but it could only be used on your slayers prey target.
Supernatural defence is now a reaction and can add a d8 to a saving throw or your AC when affected by the target of your slayers prey (adds a bigger boost to more things but only get it once a round rather than passively).
Magic users nemesis is thrown out entirely in favour of improved slayers prey. You always know the location of your slayers prey, when you deal the extra damage from slayers prey the target also needs to make a saving throw against being pushed back and knocked prone, and whenever the target of your slayers prey makes an attack against a creature other than you you can use your reaction to attack your slayers prey.
The 15th level feature is subject to change but currently it is basically evasion for all saving throws that the target of your slayers prey forces your to make.
Seeing a lot of here in the comments hating on slayer but I figure I will throw my two cents in here.
I played a Monster Slayer Ranger from level 3-16 in a year-long campaign and had a good time.
I had standard array and variant human taking the sharpshooter feat, and archery as fighting style.
I feel like this video is trying to fit Monster slayer into any ranger build or game but where it shines is as a Boss Monster killer.
Slayer's Prey is what the class builds on throughout your progression as it grants extra damage, additional defenses, until you can make an attack as a reaction if they force you to make a saving throw.
If you're level 15 and are up against a Mind flayer, use slayer's prey to get some extra damage as you attack, and if he uses his Mind Blast on you, you get a free attack as an reaction and if you hit, (which prof +5 dex +5 archery +2 minimum of +12, against their AC of 16, you could roll a 4) and just pass your saving throw, taking half damage and not get stunned.
Like I said I was a long range archer and I did pump up my Wis for saving throws among other things, I didn't have insane stats starting out. I successfully banished a red Genie making us win an entire encounter round one.
I also feel like, if Banishment is just a poor spell, why shouldn't the ranger have it? That way casters can Concentrate on better spells, either buffs or debuffs.
Though I'll admit I didn't always use it to Banish demons, fey or elemental, sometimes I just used it to delete powerful creatures off the battlemap. Because it doesn't matter how bad your DC is if your foe's charisma score is in the red. We were fighting a Remorhaz when a second one unburried itself from the snow, one action later and it was gone, because beasts and Monstrosities have bad charisma stats. So we could just kill the first one in peace.
That same session I then used Magic-User's Nemesis on a Sorceress when she tried to misty step out of a grapple, only to spend her next turn being kicked around by the party (because Sorcerers don't get Prof with Wis saving throws).
I also had a flying mount which made movement and range a non-issue for my character, able to dart in and out of Range for Slayer's prey with ease.
One time I cast Protection from Evil and Good on my mount as we faced off against a fiend, who then cast fear on me and my mount, but due to my spell and me hitting them with Slayer's Counter I got free damage and we both "pass the save".
Tons of potential with this Subclass, I had a Blast playing it but each to their own. This is my experience with the subclass.
But calling it the worst Ranger Subclass feels a bit forced.
I personally like Monster Slayer and I'm playing one now. The suggestions I'm getting from this video are valid. What I'm getting is:
1. Hunter's Sense as a free action(minium as a bonus action) but modifying your attack type to damage to take advantage of the vulnerability.
2. Slayer's Prey is a D6 at level 6, a D8 at level 10, A D10 at level 15, and a D12 at level 17. Supernatural Defense scales at this same progression.
3. Supernatural defense as a reaction based ability or at least equal to the ranger's proficiency bonus
4. Magic User's Nemesis against all magic users at a cost of a reaction. Perhaps ranger's spell save DC and a D4. You can use it equal to your proficiency bonus.
Thank you for your analysis, I hope that Wizards of the Coast allows for game testing before 5.5 comes out.
I played at a table where rangers had access to a diet wildshape (similar to how paladins get Chanel divinity) and after lv6 they could consume their wildshape to deal +1d4 elemental damage with their weapons for a short time (improving to 1d6 and 1d8 at later levels). I really liked the flavour, it looked like a druidic bloodhunter and it made a lot of sense...
I think that if you remember that 5e is a team game. We don't have to be stand alone characters. So by us calling out .. its Immune to fire and vulnerable to cold. This helps everyone. They don't waste their fire spells. If they have a cold spell or item they use that. Hunters Prey 1d6 should be elemental damage which can be swapped out so the ranger can benefit from the knowledge
Hunter’s sense is good for investigation. That old barovian woman over there is being weird and giving away free candy to children. I use hunter’s sense to confirm she’s not human. I ask the DM what I know of that can shape shift and has these resistances and weaknesses. I roll I learn she’s a hag. (This happened in our game in some form or another so many times.)
I do find that since Tasha's both Horizon Walker and Monster Slayer got slightly buffed due to the new Favourite Foe optional feature. Because previously the 3rd level bonus action feature clashed with Hunters Mark and Crossbow Expert. Still, the Monster Slayer is the most confusing ranger class for me - the name invokes a cool monster hunter, but the features don't really back it up. I'd rather play a Hunter Ranger and theme them as a monster slayer.
Tasha's didn't provide any lasting benefits to Ranger. In most class breakdowns it still ranks 12 of 13. I have seen it as high as 10 though when only considering the first 10 levels of game play.
@@peterwhitcomb8315 @Peter Whitcomb I personally think Tasha's changes are pretty big. Particularly the level 10 Nature's Veil feature - bonus action invisibility for a turn can be incredibly strong - you avoid opportunity attacks, gain advantage on your attacks and most enemies have disadvantage to attack you.
@@ep9335
If I am looking at just the class, I agree with you. Nature's Veil and the expanded spell lists were very beneficial.
...you know that 5e, like TTRPGs in general, is a group game, right? Monster Ranger's Hunter's Sense doesn't need for the Ranger to do the damage, but rather his knowledge aiding the group he's with. And it is such a nice ability for the more cooperative part of 5e, where some systems don't open this space or forces a roll, you just gain important information on the spot. Sadly, it's an action, so it plummets your usefulness on the first turn of the combat. I don't think an ability this powerful could be a free action, but as a bonus action, it's 100% fine.
And yeah, Monster Slayer is probably the worst subclass for Ranger. The spells require you to invest on Wisdom to use its more potent spells (which is now doable with Druidic Champion PAM + Shield Quarterstaff, but not that great), most of its abilities are focused solely on the target of the Slayer's Prey which forces you to go with the single-target Hunter's Mark route and while it *does*have one of the most potent abilities in the game with Hunter's Sense and some alright spells, the requirement to invest on Wisdom for most things to work make it a really difficult subclass to work with outside of a specific gimmick. It's not as bad as other examples of "bad subclasses" (especially compared to Banneret, that's probably the worst subclass in the entire game) and it can work on average game, but it's a rough one. Weirdly enough to see it coming from Xanathar, the book that gave amazing subclasses for most classes, including the Ranger with Gloom Stalker.
BUT KOBALD!! There are times when banishment is better then conjure animals. If your fighting one creature who doesn’t have legendary resistance and either has a bad save, or someone can help it fail like silvery barbs or portent, it is better then conjure animals and it can instantly end the fight. Or if the enemy has AOEs. Yeah this isn’t goin to be the case most of the time, but it’s not like a super rare thing either. Having banishment is really good.
Total seconds until first "It's bad because it isn't Conjure Animals" mention: 45
Hunter's sense is Metagaming as a class feature. If your fighting a monster your character has no business knowing what it does, you use this as an excuse to know how to handle it. It's handy that way. With all the extra HB stuff PT would give a MS ranger with this, I would absolutely play this.
Change the bonus damage from Slayer's prey from weapon damage to an element of the rangers choice to take advantage of vulnerabilities learned from Hunter's Sense.. Slayers prey isn't concentration, and you don't have to renew it every turn. So it stacks with Hunter's Mark, if you're fighting a Boss over a big fight.
Change Nemesis to 1 successful use per short rest.
With the addition of druidic warrior there are elemental options for rangers. Also there are consumables that the monster slayer can use. Acid and fire options, Even a torch does 1 fire damage that stacks with hunters mark. Rangers are also a great class for poison collection and having an auto detect immunity can help that area too. I am not saying its not better than any other ranger but there are ways to make it work.
Banishment is great from a roleplay perspective in case your character ever gets sent to another plane of existence against their will. If your DM actually does this to you, they're probably a jerk and you need to stop playing with them (unless they know you have this option to get back), but if you think about it from an in-universe perspective, your character doesn't know that being sent away like that would be a breach of a social contract among beings in a higher state of reality, so having this reassurance that they can return is pretty nice.
Proposed edit on
Hunter‘s Sense:
As a Bonus Action, you can tap into your knowledge of fighting beasts. To learn the weaknesses, resistances and immunities of target creature you can see within 60 feet of you, you must make a successful nature or survival check (DC 8 + target CR rounded up).
As Part of this bonus action, you can also use Apply Element.
Apply Element:
As a bonus action, you imbue your weapon with one of the following damage types: fire, cold, acid, force, lightning or thunder.
Your weapon deals damage of that type instead of its normal one until the end of your turn.
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With this, you could bypass resistance/immunity to profane damage types or even exploit an elemental weakness of a target.
It provides something to use as a bonus action, that does not require a spellslot. I feel like your idea here, Kobold, nicely fits the spirit of „Monster Slayer“. It’s also not considered divination magic, that the creature could be shielded against. And you can use it as often as you like?
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Edit: fixed typos. I’m on mobile.
Fire Hawk
1st level evocation spell
Casting time: Instantaneous
Range: 60 feet
Duration: until start of caster’s next turn
Make a ranged spell attack, on hit the target takes 1d6 fire damage. If the target is struck by an attack of opportunity before the caster's next turn, they will take a further 1d6 fire damage.
This spell can be cast at a higher level, adding an extra 1d6 to the initial attack for each level.
Druid, Ranger
Your welcome
I would love to see monsters given genuine and specific weaknesses, maybe even add a new section to Stat blocks just to call them out. It doesn't even need to be a legit weakness but just the key to get around their greatest strengths. Like, a troll's Stat block could call out that their regeneration is canceled out by fire and acid, and a kobolds would call out sunlight sensitivity. Then, assuming you give more creatures real weaknesses, a class like the monster slayer could be allowed to just read that section and any relevant features and traits.
Of course, Monster Slayer still needs to get a tool to actually taje advantage of this knowledge.
Can you review/calculate the Fighter’s Rune Knight subclass? I want to review a RAW optimization:
- Step 1: Confirm with your DM the “creating monsters” rules in the DMG. Each size a weapon increases is a dice multiplier. Also, if your creature’s size is 1 less you have disadvantage attacking with the weapon, and 2 sizes can’t wield it. For the final example, we will be using a Gargantuan Greatsword (8d6+Str).
- Step 2.1: Choose an Orc or similar. With Powerful Build, you count as one size larger (Large) when it comes to carrying capacity and weapons. With the DMG rule, a Medium Orc can wield Large weapons and have disadvantage with Huge.
- Step 2.2: If Powerful Build doesn’t work this way, choose Fairy for the racial spell Enlarge. You can cast this after using Giant’s Might, since GM only affects size if you aren’t already Large, Enlarge works from your current size, and as a non-Spell and spell the two can stack.
- Step 3: Great Weapon Fighting allows you to reroll all 1s and 2s, *which is a calculation I’d love to see.* This works with the additional damage dice from size increases.
- Step 4: Giant’s Might sets your size to Large (Powerful Build to Huge, disadvantage with Gargantuan), and once a round adds 1d6 to your weapon/unarmed attack (worded differently than Enlarge, which only affects weapons enlarged by the spell).
- Step 5.1: Take the Fire Rune. If you hit with your weapon, the target rolls a Strength Saving Throw or become restrained until it makes the save at the end of its turn. Restraint imposed advantage against it, so you can now wield your weapon normally.
- Step 5.2: If you don’t want to risk Fire Rune missing or failing to restrain, use the Shove action instead. As a strength based contest, Giant’s Might gives you advantage. Use this to knock a target prone, and gain advantage against them. Once you get Extra Attack, you can Shove and then strike.
- Step 6: After you get advantage against the target to negate disadvantage, use Action Surge to deal more Extra Attacks with a weapon 1 size larger than your carrying capacity. (RAW, once at least 1 each applies, always treat it as a neutral roll; although Silvery Barbs and others can affect).
Optional 1: At level 4, take Skill Expert to hey Athletics Expertise, and have easier shoves. *I recommend this one.*
Optional 2: use the Frost Rune to increase Strength checks by +2. Shoves are that much more likely to succeed.
Optional 3: Use the Storm Rune to impose disadvantage on either the Fire Rune save or the Shove contest.
---------
Bleached-White Room calcs:
+4 Str, Action Surge, all attacks and saves work in your favor, no Crits.
Level 5, Fire Rune hits and restrains, all attacks hit: 33d6+16 slashing and 4d6 Fire by the start of its following turn.
Level 5, Shove succeeds, all attacks hit, no Fire Rune: 25d6+12 slashing.
Skipping to level 11 adds a third Extra Attack and boosts GM damage, increasing both calcs above by 15d6+1d8+8 slashing.
Skipping to level 20, GM changes from +1d8 to +1d10, you gain a fourth Extra Attack (+16d6+8), and grow to Huge (wield Gargantuan normally, either no advantage needed or Crit fish).
*How you can help:*
1. Great Weapon Fighting calcs. What’s the average of Xd6 if you reroll 1-2 once?
2. Disadvantage with the initial attack for Fire Rune.
3. Enemy AC and Strength Saves for Fire Rune.
4. Shove contests with and without Expertise.
5. Frost and Storm Runes for Fire Rune and Shoving; are they worth it?
6. If the initial hit/shove fails, for each level of Extra Attack, is it worth it to try again or fight with disadvantage?
7. For each level of Extra Attack, is it better to wield one size smaller and have no disadvantage at all? And at what point would you fish for advantage?
What about Hunter conclave Ranger?
The moment you pick the sub class you get:
‘Colossus slayer’ once per turn, if you make a weapon attack against an opponent who is already taken damage, add an extra 1D8 to your attack.
‘Giant killer’ provided you can see the creature, if a large or larger creature attacks you, regardless of if it’s a hit or a miss and you are within 5 feet you can use a reaction to make an attack on them.
(which could means ‘colossus slayer’ being added)
And ‘Horde breaker’ once per turn, if you make a weapon attack on a creature, and another creature is 5 feet from that target you can attack The other creature.
(which again could mean colossus slayer on at least one of them)
I would've loved a martial class that could pick different damage types for weapon attacks! Even if there was a price tag (like buying gems to attach to the weapon) that would've been awesome!
There are rune knights which seem like the closest to what you described
Maybe mixing the lvl 3 abilities with the bloodhunter for changing elements?
I played this in Rime of the Frostmaiden. And to be as good as everyone else my DM did a lot of changes. One of which was something you said, that the scanning ability be a free action once per turn to see abilities and stuff of enemies.
I want to share a build that I did with this subclass and had a lot of fun with, and in certain encounters allowed me to tank better than the party's barbarian and fighter.
I had a monster slayer hobgoblin (Monsters of Multiverse) with mostly Tasha's rules and the Shield Master feat. Fortune from the Many synergizes well with Supernatural Defense, giving good additional bonuses to saving throws. With dex saving throws, being already good because it is my main stat, no fireball ever touched me because of shield master. With expertise in athletics I also could use offensively the feat, so between knocking people prone, the Fey Gift feature, Hunter Sense and the subclass spellcasting, I became an appreciated all round support.
I don't think that the subclass is terrible, but it needs more in order to feel consistent, and the fact that its focus is mainly defensive doesn't help it to stand out compared to the others.
My DM made a homebrew class that's based on Monster Slayer that is basically a pull from Witcher. Basically a watered down DND Witcher. Small glyph spells they can use for fire damage, electrical, force damage, things like that.
My favourite character to date used the original unearthed arcana monster hunter (which was originally implemented for fighter) and I had a huge amount of fun with that. I'm not sure on the viability of the class but having superiority die really helped
My thoughts about the Monster Slayer is: combine it with the Hunter, take the best, make it synergize.
I like the mental image of a slow hunt: So with Hunters Sense instead of having to see the creature, you can track it and prepare yourself. (which is also usefull for the party)
Then maybe giving the class some alchemy option, (like in the Witcher) where you can prepare Weapon Oils to change the dmg type of your attacks.
If you decide to want to play into the Witcher Theme and go meele: have your meele reach cout for large creatures as one more. (you could say that instead of going in and attacking, you use the creatures wide movements to hit it). This should just be an additional feature ontop tho, not replacing anything.
Maybe you can extrend that to "infitie meele attack reactions" (as a worse Sentinel Feat) or something, idk. I'm no homebrewing expert.
Give the Monster Slayer access to the Elemental Weapon spell. Let it replace *Magic Circle*, which is a circumstantial spell in a critical spell list relative to the level of the character. Add a Bonus Action EW cast if the character successfully activates Supernatural Defense by succeeding on the save or ability check. This bonus cast option will exist until the end the the characters next turn.
I have a two Rangers in my one campaign, one is the Monster Slayer (MS) and the other a TCE Beast Master (BM). The MS is doing crazy work but it's more from the TCE changes than the MS subclass. The BM is doing well but they're a newer player and still learning the ropes.
So the question is, what would you do to fix MS? Just follow the suggestions in the video or would there be some massive changes to how it works?
Honestly. I have a monster slayer on my campaign for curse of strahd and it really helps the players. She uses hunters sense outside of battle to foil any plans of vampires, werewolves,.. fucking angels! She always finds the hidden people and tells the party how to kill them. Pretty useful if you ask me.
A neat way to get use out of Hunter's Sense would be to give the subclass the Chromatic Orb spell. This has some issues (Doesn't feel too ranger-y, costly component, etc) but I like the spirit of it. Perhaps retooling the bonus action damage ability to change damage type or something is more elegant
- 1d6 damage Every turn not just once and not having to spend an action every time.
- 1d6 on saving throws, HUGE bonus Better than a concentration less bless !
- a chance to shut down not just spells but even non spell teleportations a Wisdom save of DC 15 isnt that small , it sucks that it require a save and a legendary resistance will bypass it. but this mosty used as an Oh shit lets save everyone or oh shit its getting away. both are great 1 to burn legendary resistance and the other to not let them run away after the tables have turned. I got it to work on a demon prince :D
- a reaction Attack that can Make you auto save !!! AUTO SAVE + DAMAGE !!!! never heard off. maybe the devenation but even with a 20 on the die if you cant meet the DC you fail. THIS can save a DC of 50 if it just hits !!!
and if there is an encounter where you feel you throw everything at the creature and its not working this can save you trouble. and as a starter to the final BBGE fight it isnt a bad action to spend where every damage will matter. Do wish it was part of the slayer foe thing.
you can never say its a bad subclass
I do a little homebrew change to adress the vulnerability or resistance bypass. Simply, when they get their extra 1d6 of damage from Slayers Prey I allow them to pick the damage type of the extra 1d6
Slayer of the Weak
Starting at 3rd level, you can focus your ire on one foe, using it's weakness against it. As a bonus action, you designate one creature you can see as the target of this feature. The first time each turn that you hit that target with a weapon attack, it takes extra 1d6 damage of the type of a known weakness the target has. If you don't know any the damage will be force instead.
This benefits lasts until you finish a short or long rest. It ends early if you designate a different creature.
Or instead of force could just be the weapon's damage. But anyway this helps a lot the sinergy, and also gives a good reason for hunter's sense to be limited as this would make for more roleplay ways to come to know the enemies weaknesses.
Magic users nemesis => There is no escape
At 11th level, you gain the ability to thwart someone else's attempts at escaping. When you see a creature getting out of your range or line of sight be it by magical or physical means you can try to prevent it by magically tempting the creature to accept their fate and stand their ground. The creature must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw against your spell save DC, or its attempt at fleeing is ceased, if by physical means they can't hide and their speed becomes zero, if by magical their spell is wasted.
You can do so a number of times equal to your wisdom, recovering those with a long rest.
Slayers counter is ok, now about supernatural defense I would just allow it to be added at any effect brought upon you that the creature with that slayer's prey is active.
I played at one table where, when making checks to learn about a monster's abilities, the dm would show us the statblock for a limited time.
You do realize that Slayer's Prey requires one bonus action for A SINGLE TURN per creature??? This means that after the first turn where you select your Slayer's Prey, you are free to use your bonus action as you like and still have the same target active!!!
I do think that with mild changes to this subclass's later features as you mentioned, it's better than PHB Hunter, because interacting with spells is far better than multiattack defense and a conditional multiattack (that doesn't do anything when you're against a single beefy target).
You said you don’t like martial classes, but you keep covering Rangers. I get that they’re still half casters, but where are our cleric / bard / sorcerer subclass analysis. But great vid, keep it up!
I think it's less about disliking them and more that he thinks they deserve better
@@fadeleaf845 Yeah, I didn't phrase it correctly. He said in one of his videos that spells are such an enormous advantage that those who can't cast them just can't keep up. This is true, but until caster reach around 5th level, unless they min max, martials usually win. The reason for this is their health pool : D&D is a team game, one person tanks and the other damages, that's why they get outclassed in a powerbuilder's eye.
I gotta say, despite it’s Bonus action to activate its Slayers Prey feature and getting that extra d6 a turn, it’s FAR better than say Gloomstalker that only gets it once a combat. If anything, this class is great to multiclass into if you’re going for dps with a rogue. You get that extra d6 once an attack, and if you got hunters mark, that’s an extra d6, then if you sneak attack, boom, extra d6 to add.
Thematically I'd argue it makes sense design wise that you can tell people what its weak to. And fire arrows, while suboptimal, is a way to get fire damage.
Um no option to take advantage of vulnerabilities
Spell options
Ensnaring strike 1st lvl piercing+restraint
Zephyr strike 1st lvl spell force
Flame arrow 3rd lvl spell fire
Lightning arrow 3rd lvl spell lightning
Mundane options
Poison vil/poisoner feat poison+sleep if
Acid vil acid
I can think of a few ways to buff this class up to be a bit more fun/enjoyable/usable
This class could be so much more interesting, just off of the 3rd level abilities, I'd make two changes personally. First off I'd make Hunter's Sense a once per round free action but nerf it's ability, only learning 1 immunity, 1 resistance and 1 vulnerability per use, as well as how many unknown remain. Instead of learning an immunity, resistance and vulnerability you can instead learn 1 trait or feature that the creature has.
I would then buff Slayer's prey, if you know of a vulnerability, you can instead do 1d4+Wisdom damage of a known vulnerability type instead of the extra 1d6.
Supernatural defence could additionally add a reaction for 1d4 to an ally within 30 foot that needs to make a saving throw or ability check to escape the Slayer's Prey target but you can no longer benefit from this feature until the end of your next turn.
Magic-User's Nemesis, just make it usable to proficiency times per day instead. It's already level 11, so it'd start with 4 uses and quickly get to 5 uses at 13. Additional buff, on a failure can expand a further use of the feature to roll an arcana check against the creatures spell save DC to gain knowledge of where the creature teleported from and where too, so if it teleported through a wall, you know where it ended out or came from. Additionally for this check, if you lack arcana proficiency, you gain it for this check, else wise if you do have proficiency you gain advantage on the check.
Hord Breaker combined with the Lightning Arrow spell and Sharpshooter feat does nasty things.
That's why (and this is not a solution for the subclass) i engineered the Monster Slayer DELUXE
Multiclass Monster Slayer with Ascendant Dragon Monk.
Benefits: Hunter's sense is useless? Not anymore (partially), now with your 3rd Level Monk Feature you can adapt and transform your Unarmed Strikes damage to Fire, Lighting, Thunder, and the rest of the Dragon Damage Types to adapt to any monster. Your party can adapt to handle Radiant or Necrotic if need be.
Your Wisdom Sucks as a Ranger? Not anymore! Dex and Wis are your main stats now, because your AC depends on them, extra movement and stunning strike, so your saves are WAAAY better now. (It still sucks that you can only use it once per short rest, but well...)
If you can find a lenient DM to let you use Hunter's sense as a Bonus Action or Free Action, you can actually act in the first round of combat.
It sucks that only way to kind-of salvage this subclass is to outright change into another class, but it does offer a good alternative.
You can even play with a Shortbow, with Monk's Dedicated Weapon.
1:55 For me:
Free action for the basics.
Bonus Action for the AC.
Action and a History/Survival check equal to 2x the monster’s CR for the saving throws, Legendary Resistances, and spell slots (you get BA info anyways).
I think monster slayer is the worst ranger subclass but I do think these abilities can come to interesting tactics alongside the base ranger features. With pass without trace and potentially expertise in stealth you can sneak up on your target, learn their weaknesses and resistances and even set up a buff that will do a little extra damage but more importantly protect you from the saving throws. For optimization you would probably be better off with a different subclass but this subclass offers some pretty fun and cool features.
While on the surface, this analysis is ok, it misses and undersells a lot of points and misses most nuances.
From the top: Hunter's sense reveals only DAMAGE resistances, weaknesses and vulnerabilities, it does nothing for conditions and due to the cookie cutter 5e monster design, it's useless and can be ignored.
Supernatural defense is more than ok, d6 to all saving throws is better than most similar abilities, only being surpassed by Aura of Protection and Diamond Soul. It's about as good as Artificer's Flash of Genius. Gives overall lower saves, has no limit, but provides this for only one source. It's not amazing, but it can be very helpful.
Magic-User Nemesis is probably the worst part of the kit, only once per SR/LR. Isn't reliable due to most stuff it'd be useful against having high Wis. It's best part is foiling teleports since a lot of monsters with poor wis can teleport.
Slayer's Counter is literally the single best Ranger capstone in the game. The analysis of this was baffling and incredibly wrong. What Slayer's Counter actually reads is "Use your reaction to pass a saving throw against your Slayer's Prey". If we assume a stingy DM, at lv 15 you will have at least a +2 magic bow. This means given the archery style (And you are using it if you are playing slayer) you get a +15 to that saving throw and the DC is now the foe's AC. The highest AC (without buffs)in the Game is 25, meaning that no matter what saves it targets for you, you pass with a 10 or higher. The highest DC in the game is 27 and getting a +15 to your saving throw is quite the feat, even at level 20 and it can be only in one score, whereas Counter doesn't care as long as it's your foe forcing it. AND THEN YOU GET AN ATTACK ON TOP OF THAT. If this would've been just a reaction it's be too good since it consumes no resources.
There are 2 common misconceptions about Monster Slayer it seems.
1 it's offensive, but actually it focuses more on defense and passing saving throws.
2 it's weak. This one is partially true. For early levels it's by far the weakest Ranger. In a high level campaign, it's probably the strongest. (This is assuming 8 encounters per day or 4 difficult encounters per day, if your DM is doing only 1 or 2, all martials are instant F tier, go go casters)
One fix for monster slayer would be that Slayer's Prey gets overrides resistance and turns immunity into resistance for the player.
So if you found a creature that was resistant to your attacks, you could pop Slayer's Prey and get full damage to your attacks which is likely more impressive than a d6.
It's situationally useful which is good since it uses your bonus action which Hunter's mark also does. Don't think something is resistant to your attacks, use HMark. Think something is resistant, use Slayers.
And how will you know which to use? Sneak up and use Hunter's Sense to fond out its weaknesses! Now we've got wonderful synergy between the first 2 abilities!
Also, yes, Banishment is better than Conjure Animals situationally. Conjure Animals does about 30DPR. At level 13 you're fighting things with much more than 30hp, so taking one out for an entire fight is incredibly useful. Protection from E and G is a good if not great spell. Zone of Truth is a good for social OOC. The spells aren't terrible. They're slightly below average.
Magic Circle sucks (seriously, 10 effing feet radius and a 1 minute casting time? 1 of those things should have changed) and and no one ever gets to 17th level.
Gotta say that I have to strongly disagree with the critique on the 3rd level damage bonuses (I wholeheartedly agree about the missed opportunity to do magical damage, though).
> Beast Master has no bonus damage at 3rd (7th grants magical beast attacks).
> Drakewarden can theoretically do SOME elemental (drake's attacks deal a bit of elemental damage).
> Fey Wanderer can do a measly +1d4 psych (d6 at 11th) on a weapon hit, on ONE target /turn
> Gloom Stalker gets +1d8 weapon damage on hit on JUST the 1st round - not magical, JUST the 1st round.
> Swarmkeeper gets +1d6 pierce (d8 at 11th) as an OPTION, on a weapon hit /turn - not magical
> Hunter gets +1d8 weapon damage /turn, IF the target is wounded already - not magical
I feel that HW and MS have the *strongest* 3rd level damage abilities
> Horizon Walker has a +1d8 force (2d8 at 11th) AND all weapon damage is converted to force, at the cost of BA in 30ft on sight /round. It really feels like you're ignoring that TOTAL OVERRIDE of damage into magical force. If your complaint is how these subclasses make DMs give Rangers magic weapons to keep up, this one explicitly doesn't with one of the best damage types in the game. It's a resource cost and short range because it allows a 3rd level session 1 ranger to deal martial damage against creatures with magic resistance. Before the party started getting magic items, my game's HW was dumping damage more than any other class, and once they got magic items, he was keeping a steady lead on damage over most of the group.
> Monster Slayer deals +1d6 weapon as BA in 60ft on sight /turn FOR THE WHOLE FIGHT until you designate another creature. It's a Bonus Action, yes, but it's only on the round you target the creature in. It's VERY unfortunate that this wasn't magical to get synergy with Prey, but this is basically Hunter's Mark without a spell slot or limited resource of any kind - Tasha's options didn't even want to go half that far (1d4 for profBonus/LR).
Alternative for slayer's prey:
As a bonus action, for the next minute, you can add PB damage to your attacks. This damage can be bludgeoning piercing or slashing. You can do this proficiency bonus times per short rest.
At 7th level. You can make the damage type fire, cold, acid, or lightning.
At 11th level. You can make the damaged type nocratic or radiant.
If u want to make it better just move all this to 3rd level and keep it a d6.
devil's advocate here... as a monster slayer, you could bring holy water/alchemist's fire/vials of poison with you to target vulnerabilities. but idk if there is any equivilent for other element damage types. most people would not think to do this, though. and in some campaigns (e.g. CoS) they may not be easy to get
I like the idea of being able to add 2d4 damage of any element to a weapon for a bonus action; but taking 2 damage of that element when you select the element.
I think looking at hunters sense as only useful if it’s not a full action is missing the point, rangers are supposed to be prepared and plan out fights, why wouldn’t the ranger just stealth up to a hiding spot and use this feature BEFORE you enter combat, like that’s the whole thing a ranger does, this is like saying guidance is a bad cantrip because it takes a full action, dnd isn’t one big combat where you get no outside time
So ya I kind of do that monster hunter thing in my games cause it’s fun to give guys things like elemental attacks and buffs but with weaknesses a good example I can think of is my blue hair species. Just a slightly bigger floof that gets 2d8hp and 45ft of movement. The males have horns that can be used to zap a target within 15ft if you fail the save you are stunned to the end of ya turn however they only get it once a short or long rest. While the females get these static sparks on their whiskers making any melee attack on them do 1d4 lighting back. Resistant to lightening and thunder however they are vulnerable to water.
As for the players I’ve made a plant that can be put into water to inflict a damage type if tossed or made into a oil for coating weapons changing their damage type and if made at higher tiers giving a chance to inflict a status and/or hurt more.
Fire seed that at a base changes damage to fire, tier 1 just added a bonus damage die, and tier 2 marks them burn where they take a damage die of whatever hit them per turn (can stack if target keeps failing saves). Burn can be removed if hit by water or anything that would put out a fire even attack spells, or with an action. So ya full home brew stuff.
all your points are correct but you fail to mention... monster hunters are cool
in all seriousness though, playing one of these in a campaign has made me pretty disappointed with what should have been an awesome archetype.
making slayer's prey damage do elemental damage is genius though, that would have been an awesome route for the subclass to go
A couple things: Many of these abilities do not require use while in combat - they can, and thematically probably should, be used in preparation for combat. Hunter's Prey is a dramatically less resource limited replacement (or supplement) option for Hunter's Mark - despite the "bad" label you have for the + 1d6 bonus action spell options, they are very good in games where you cannot afford to burn all your resources early, and aren't constantly facing solitary Deadly+ threats - it cannot be overstated how massively bad rolls can cause statistically uncommon failures - abilities like this mitigate that. Supernatural Defense is VERY good when fighting monsters that have attacks that are Grapples, but also have riders - for example, a Roper's grapple, which also Restrains, will make any fight it is added to dramatically more difficult.
Additionally, Searing Smite and Elemental Weapon are Tasha's added spell options, and knowing vulnerabilities, etc., doesn't mean the Ranger specifically is the one who has to exploit them. But it's also important to realize that vulnerabilities aren't actually all that common, and just knowing resistances and what to avoid is often more useful when not actually metagaming monster stats.
I don't think the white room approach to subclass abilities is actually all that effective for this.
"White room"
Idea: Monster Slayer gets three damage Cantrips of their choice on gaining the subclass (using WIs), and roll Advantage if exploiting a weakness revealed by Slayer's Sense. This replaces Slayer's Prey.
Would let 'em lean into that Witcher Vibe more, but for most foes it's still more optimal to actually act like a martial class and stab or shoot away due to Cantrips taking a full Action (usually).
Think~ it would be balanced by only working for the Hunter, and thus requiring two rounds, but seems like the obvious fix to me. At least for pure fun & cool factor.
Honestly, Horizon Walker is such an easy fix for me (Planar Warrior applies to first attack hit, no BA; Detect Portal has no limits and maybe include detecting any teleportationg at all; Ethereal Step lasts until start of next turn) but Monster Slayer feels like everything needs at least two tweaks to even be close to Tasha's subclasses.
At least Detect Portal feels fun when you get it off that one time that it matters. 11th level Monster Slayers get a worse Counterspell once per short or long rest and only that. At least Horizon Walkers get a +1d8 damage increase at 11th level to Planar Warrior which means it's infinitely closer (by a very small margin, but I'll take what I can get) to CBE damage compared to Slayer's Prey.
I played a monster hunter ranger before, and I gotta say, even though it isn’t my favorite ranger, it’s still fun. The action for that first ability is annoying, and it sucks that you can’t take advantage of it. But you know who can? The sorcerer with transmuted spell, or the wizard who had decided to go with that magical spell book over being able to control time. It’s a feature that only works if your party has access to that, and does help you with team work and make you feel more like a ranger. Honestly I kinda feel like it should be a base ranger ability, or at least a class feature variant of something like favored enemy.
Honestly, replace the one time use counter spell with the level 18 feat since it would not only make it accessible earlier, but open up the last feat for something better. Maybe give them something that would actually be effective towards late game creatures like monsters that are bigger than medium sizes? Enhance their Prey feat to have different effects on different types of monsters via adding their weakness to weapons for bonus damage. While flavor wise I understand why they added the counter spell to this subclass, but in practice it is just not viable. Also I agree with the action Bs on the looking up the details. Definitely needs rework.
Damn Kobold you just hurt me in the feels. I’ve been dreaming (due to currently being DM in my group) of making a monster Hunter with the cooking feat and his goal is to sample the “meats” of different planes, cook red dragon steaks, and create a recipe for black pudding that is delicious.
Awesome Infos
Thx for the video.
But which Ranger subclasses would be recommended
Monster Slayer wants to be both the "I know your weakness and can exploit it" subclass and the "mage slayer" subclass, but sucks at both by the time they get any of their subclass features. It's like how the Mage Slayer feat only lets you attack after the spell is successfully cast and hitting doesn't interrupt the casting since the spell was already cast. The option is there, but why bother when you can have the Wizard cast Counterspell and go with a better feat/subclass? Gloomstalker gets effectively infinite Invisibility with no concentration at level 3, hell RAW PHB Beastmaster at least lets you shoot a wolf at people for a Pack Tactics advantage attack that might pull the target prone.
On the subject of Ranger and capstones, doing WIS damage to one attack on a favored enemy per turn is so absurdly bad that even Monk 20's free Ki points looks good, because that's a resource you can use. Even as far as subclass capstones go, they all have to compete with at best Evasion (from Hunter) or 4 levels of a different, more front-loaded class (assuming you're jumping ship right after your level 11 subclass feature) like Fighter, Rogue, or even a full caster like Cleric/Druid for even more spell slots faster. Hell, I went into Wizard just for Arcane Recovery, and after taking Shadow Blade is capable of putting out an absurd amount of damage in a very niche circumstance. Doesn't mean it'll happen if the dice hate you and refuse to roll above a 7 for your attacks, but really anything is better than more Ranger. Even Monk dip is better than more Ranger because you get Bonus Action options and probably weren't getting that +1 Studded Leather Armor anyway.
Honestly, this subclass is really fun with the Gift of the Chromatic Dragon Feat.
Can I use your ideas to make a witcher subclass? Because that sounds pretty cool.
Better spell choices
hunter's sense as free action, either after 1st round of combat or prof/LR.
Slayer's Prey As bonus action for 1 minute grant your weapon 1d6 elemental damage of choice for 1 hit each round.
11th level instead of counterspell you can cast magic circle as a standard action, it requires no material components, lasts for 1 minute.
Slayer's counter - counter attack when forced save against slayer's prey, if it hits you gain advantage on save. If you aren't in range and save you take no secondary effects.
Alright, here's my rework ideas
I don't think giving the players as much info as you said is a good idea, I'd personally expand it to maybe something like a rounded up/down estimate of their HP, their AC, and maybe a combat tidbit, though that's hard to define, something like "This creature has legendary actions" or "The slime it expels will give you a disease that gets worse over time and can't be cured by anything but magic" or "This thing has more than one AOE attack". Also make it within sight and a bonus action.
The weirdest thing about slayer's prey is that all that it needed to do was let you choose from a short list of damage types to make the extra damage, and to make the damage die scale/let you expend spell slots to increase it's effect. Way more synergistic with it's level 3 feature.
Supernatural defense. I think this needs a buff. Once per rest, when forced to make a AC or grapple check, you can immediately switch your hunter's prey target to the creature that made you do the check and apply the 1d6 with a reaction.
Magic User's Nemesis. More or less what you said, maybe macke it able for you to switch your nemesis to the caster if you want to as well.
It could be a good class for the right campaign.
If go to hunt one specific monster and you could stealthily look at it before battle so you get it's weaknesses and the party could plan how to aproach...
I understand trying to make things better but at most I would make the ability a Bonus Action, because Action Economy is important and being potentially able to immediately know the stats of a monster makes the encounter easier
Yeah, when I was looking to build a monster hunter, I skipped right past this subclass and just made an intelligent fighter with a chest full of tools (for making traps, countering abilities and exploiting weaknesses). Then I picked up the UA Monster Hunter subclass, and the rest is history.
I played a high combat session as a monster slayer and had nice time, but that was just because I was playing a melee ranger with zephyr strike in a relatively low impact game. Turns out melee ranger is fun, just not optimal. But getting to use my monster slayer resistances things was cool because we got sucked into a whirlpool and ran into an elder being and we were able to leave they didn’t have a body or presence because I couldn’t target them, they were the entire Demi plain we slipped into.