What I say about Blind Fighting is incorrect. The wolves still attack normally due to Pack Tactics, so its still 35% rather than 12% but the fighter has advantage on attack rolls.
I am terrified of reincarnating or being iskied to D&D, having never played I am fascinated by the game theory that must exist. How would you prepare if you and say 5-15 friends had say 3 years warning? This is not a threat. If you each got 5 levels free but wouldn't know your d&D starting point, what would you want people to pick?
Ever smoking bottle = Fog cloud without concentration & bigger cloud;) Sword burst cantrip is made for fog & smoke. When your party & DM think you are insane for spending around to thousand gold to seek out & purchase this common magic item. I got nearly no gold, but my wizard got an unlimited 1st level spell for no slots.
(3:55) - Fighter has advantage? : actually because you are 'blinded' (1:57) (in the cloud) you have disadvantage to hit. But with 'Blind Fighting' (3:55) you gain advantage to hit. These cancel each other out (it doesn't matter how many times you have adv/disadv they only count once and if you have both you have a 'straight' roll) So, everyone is just 'straight' rolling... no ADV or DISADV
@@ddtalks2821 blind fighting gives you a special Vision that allows you to see even when blinded you defender is not unseen, you don't get disadvantage
DM once engaged us with a bunch of enemies with devil's sight that were shrouded in magical darkness. It was going terribly until I realised that if I cast fog cloud on the area, nobody would be able to see and we'd no longer be at a significant disadvantage. Turned the fight from a likely loss to an easy victory.
@@duarteabreu3636 Devil's sight relates to darkness/magical darkness, but to see through fog you would need blindsight at the very least, which Devil's sight doesnt provide.
@@CaptainShenanigans42 hmmm interesting, although my initial interpretation of Devil's Sight was that "darkness, both magical and non magical" include any spells that would make it impossible to see. Guess I read it wrong then
@@duarteabreu3636 i like to think of it this way, devils sight doesn’t let you see threw walls/solid objects. The fog is like an object in the way of your Vision not a lack of light.
I can look through my bat familiar's eyes to ger blind-sight, this ➕️ fog cloud ➕️ blindfighting fighting style is basically an easier better darkness ➕️ devils sight combo
No thumbs, great loots :P As long as magic cures radiation burns. Double bonus, overcomes resistance due to the unavoidable(on-hit) annihilation reaction. #Edit: I mean I would hope! As a man terrified of being isikied to d&d I have to admit magic beings may be strange matter in a physics way at it's base parts. Anti-matter rifle ARE if annihilating magic adjacent or full magic objects on contact, your one 'if that's his real head this God is going down weapon' PS. If you can also make a hydrogen container the size of a party balloon, you definitely HAVE a nuclear weapon.
Offer them a fair market price. If you don't have the funds ask them about payment plans. The anti-matter will make back its money very quickly in the right hands/paws.
I've used this spell to great effect as a Moon Druid, combined with the Giant Centipede form's 30ft Blindsight. Using the Hide action to force my attackers to play battleship and sneaking in opportunity attacks as they stumbled around in the fog was great fun, very horror-movie like.
@@ssZackaria I do agree with you here, actually. while the giant centipede's blindsight is *way* better than the giant spider's, the spider won't die in a single hit so it relies less on the hide action to keep itself from getting wrecked... it's fine with just everyone having disadvantage trying to hit it.
@@kevingriffith6011 yea that’s exactly my point plus with web attack too it is a very useful choice if you want to not only attack but restrain I personally like it for the sheer versatility and hp compared to the centipede but both are viable options
With tashas Druid feature you can cast find familiar, with a bat or something with blind sight and see with there senses, could this work with there blindsight Letting you to target them ?
Fog cloud also hard counters beholders. With a 1st level spell. Just keep everyone in the cloud; if the enemy doesn't gaze at you, they can't see you and can't use eye beams. If they do gaze, the anti-magic field prevents them from using their beams. All they can do is bite.
@@geralfcecani3841 You don't trap them in it, you have the party hang out inside and pop out to attack. The beholder can't see you inside the cloud to shoot beams at you and if it gazes at it to gain visibility, it can't fire beams into its own antimagic cone. Either way, bow-users will eventually be able to whittle it down. Darkness works for this too because beholders only have darkvision for some reason. And if it comes in to start biting it has probably lost.
@@Tuliems it could hold its action to shoot a eye beams then. Anyway, any DM you try and abuse turn order shenanigans in front of is gonna shoot that down fast, because "oH It CA'nT AtTacK uS sINcE iT'S nOT it'S TurN" is just plain daft
@@geralfcecani3841 readying a beam doesn’t do anything in this scenario. The anti magic cone from the beholder prevents its eye beams from working, as the beams are magical. The beams also require sight of the creature it’s trying to target, which is why fog cloud and darkness defeat the beams. Readying an eye beam to target a creature would never work as in the scenario there is not a moment where the PCs are visible and outside of an anti magic cone.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole thing with beholders is they have some form of reality manipulation that they affect the world around them with. Wouldn't they just make us strong gust of wind to blow the smoke out of the way, especially in their layer? Also magical darkness wouldn't that be a dispelled by their gaze? I can see the fog staying because it doesn't say anything about it being magical in nature, but the darkness spell specifically states its magical which their gaze disrupts
Today i placed a fog cloud above my party, and combined it with sanctuary since the enemies shouted to target me after it. With it i managed to cancel out the kobold rogue's sunlight sensitivity, and then also give him advantage. Thanks for the videos
I have a funny story not about fog cloud but the mechanic that disadvantage and advantage cancel no matter how many of one and how few of another you have. We were fighting a party of fairies, a satyr a naiad, a kored, a few others that died quickly like a sprite that don’t matter. The barbarian-Paladin was targeting by otto’s irresistible dance from the kored, while in a pool of chest high water, fighting a Nayad who was invisible in water. As well as being restrained by entangle cast by the dryad. (entangling a dancing target wasn't stupid, it targeted the entire party and the kored made the person most likely to resist dance) He had dropped prone to give disadvantage on the arrows last turn prior to being restrained but after dancing, since there wasn't any significant melee threat (didn't know Kored can punch), The satyr revealer used frightening song to frighten him and his friends. He had disadvantage because he was prone, frightened, underwater, restrained, dancing, and couldn’t see his target But he used reckless attack. So. Straight roll. Ever since then that mechanic bugs the shit out of me. Because I can only start to imagine more ways that pour Gaian could have gotten disadvantage on his attack rolls. What if his target had dodged? What about vicious mockery? Imagine if a fighter with the protector fighting style was next to the naiad? What if they were 10 feet away and prone and the barbarian was using a reach weapon? Etc etc. No matter how unfavorable it is, reckless attack cancels it ALL out. But it’s also the only reason fog cloud is as good as it is since mutual obscurement turns advantage off
I love this, fog cloud is fantastic. However I don’t think that if the fighter had blindsight the wolves would have disadvantage. They would have the advantage from pack tactics + disadvantage from fog cloud which cancel out, and any additional sources of advantage or disadvantage don’t matter. Having blind fighting would 100% help the fighter offensively though
Best video yet! Love to see how you're getting the hang of it :-) Love Fog Cloud and agree that it's a must have (unless you prefer Pyrotechnics)! One point, unless your party members Hide, you know exactly what square they're in, for purposes of placing your AOE spells. Also, thanks for the shoutout!
Attacks of opportunity require that the attacker can see their target. This is an often forgotten detail that can be used to great advantage in combination with spells like Fog Cloud.
If a devil or true sight having enemy ever weaponizes darkness against you, plop the fog cloud over the darkness. You have negated a second level spell with a first. And even better than the wolf example not only have you negated the enemy having advantage on all their attack rolls, but you negated the fact that you had disadvantage on all yours against the enemy. Although if you know you’re going into that encounter and you’re level 5 or higher I’d suggest daylight since it prevents them from benefiting from darkness until daylight is dispelled, but that spell is significantly more expensive and also not as widely useful as fog cloud, which can effectively turn off the disadvantage/advantage mechanic from any source not just darkness. It’s just the most notable one.
@@KingMJAH Genie can get it if you pick Marid as your patron. Half-Elf with Mark of Storm and Triton are also options, and so is any Strixhaven background other than Silverquill.
Yup, super useful spell I used while fighting a Basilisk. Realised that not only were we swinging with great difficulty, but because we'd have our eyes closed, we couldn't defend well either. So I decided that no one was able to see because it would make everything an even playing field.
3:54 Wouldn't the disadvantage from Blind Fighting not apply because the wolves already have disadvantage, cancelled by Pack Tactics advantage? Their attacks would still be normal rolls. (Great video btw, just a detail I wanted to bring attention to)
@@dawidjagodzinski1597 No because, thanks to Blind Fighting, you can effectively see through the Fog Cloud, so your attacks DO have advantage, but the wolves attacks aren't at disadvantage thanks to Pack Tactics
4:28 Yeah. That's a chunk of combat cantrips: > Need Sigh: Acid Splash, Create Bonfire, Frostbite, Infestation, Lightning Lure, Mind Sliver, Poison Spray, Sacred Flame (funny the one that ignores cover benefits needs sight), Toll the Dead, Vicious Mockery & Word of Radiance. > No Need: Chill Touch, Eldritch Blast, Fire Bolt, Green-Flame Blade (but with no bounce), Booming Blade, Primal Savagery, Produce Flame , Ray of Frost, Sapping Sting, Shocking Grasp, Sword Burst, Thorn Whip & Thunderclap.
Because of how Rules as Written are, Fog cloud also allows you to shoot a long bow at 600 ft with normal attack instead of disadvantage while in the cloud. This is why i changed the Blinded condition so that you only get advantage against targets you can see that are blinded but have disadvantage if you are blinded, this makes it so if a whole group of people are blinded they all have disadvantage against eachother instead of all normal attacks. while still making blinded a good condition.
here is a thought for you that my dm allowed me to do with fog cloud once. My druid of Twilight did this once against a medusa and the mine she was in, but it wasn't a simple fog cloud I has used Harvest's Scythe to augment the spell to do 1d6 necrotic damage for the duration of the spell. So not only did the spell did as you showed but it also allowed us to safely comb the mines for threats by moving the cloud ahead of us till we found the mini boss, Medusa, and used the necrotic damage and aoe damage to wear her down and eventually downed her.
I'm currently rocking what I believe is one of if not the best Fog Cloud exploiter at level 5 in a campaign I currently play in. My DM loves to hate me for this. Arcane Trickster 4, Fighter 1 Armed with a whip and a shield Blind fighting style, sentinel feat With two of the spells being Fog Cloud and Booming Blade This is hilarious. You run up 10ft from your opponent, cast the fog cloud and hide with your bonus action. If your opponent for some reason can't find the rogue with stealth expertise in the fog then they'll likely try to get away, so you Sentinel Attack of Opp Sneak Attack them with advantage, which stops them too far away from you to use their action to attack. Then next turn you move up, Booming Blade Sneak Attack them, and either hide again or disengage 5ft as a bonus action. If you hide, and your opponent can't find you again, they're likely to try and get away again, in which case you let them go 5ft to trigger Booming Blade before you trigger your Attack of Opp and screw up their turn like the first turn all over again. Or if you disengage 5ft, you insult your opponents choice in footwear and let them pick their poison between trying to run and get stopped again or engage you, take the Booming Blade and try to hit you with disadvantage from the fog that is your friend. This is not even the whole of the BS this build can pull. I'm having a ton of fun with this.
Wouldn't it extend the range of their longbow due to advantage/disadvantage cancel? It doesn't work how you're saying because you can't see them either. You'd just be buffing them.
This is some really interesting ideas for a spell I really like but struggle to find a place for. I did a bit of the opposite of this once though. Our party were set to rush a group of archers. Rather than letting us risk being torn to shreds by arrows I used a third level slot to put a massive cloud between us. Our party rushed through the fog while the archers had no idea what to aim for. 2 rounds later my party exited the cloud and started mowing down the archers, it was easy once our melee fighters got on top of them. I just stayed in the cloud until I heard my friends started taking damage, peaked out, threw some healing if it was needed and then ducked back into the fog bank.
Fog Cloud is such an underrated spell and I’ve never gotten the chance to pick it up as a caster nor have an ally do it, and it’s _so frustrating having it be just out of reach._ Like Artificers should just have Fog Cloud on their spell list, it just works so well!
Very recently I saw this used to great effect. We were attacked by invisible duergar and wall of fog totally nullified their strategy. We moved in the wall, used stealth action then next round perception action instead of basically be in the mercy of their advantage attack rolls.
This spell is a pretty effective way to balance an encounter with a beholder in the players' favor. The fog in the antimagic eye cone is suppressed, but nothing in it can be targeted by the eye rays. Players call out to each other where they and the beholder are located and boom. If someone can grapple it, everyone gets at least one round to lay into it for free.
I appreciate your spell videos. As a new wizard it helps me not only know how these work but also explain them to my dm who is not used to running a campaign with spellcasters. ❤️❤️
You can also hide in the fog, making it an especially good grab for rogues and goblins since they can hide as a bonus action, usually with very little opportunity cost.
I'd just Silent image a smoke cloud n tell the team it's an illusion so they can see through it then we have advantage and they have disadvantage, hell do it for free with mostly visions because bits fucking Useful as hell if you are creative enough
I used this in an Eberron game where we played as Brailish Redcloaks attempting to capture an enemy fort. They had mages in the bunker with Magic Missiles that were shredding our juggernaut and annihilating anyone lucky enough to make it 50 yards into the enemy trench. I cast one single fog cloud on the bunker's opening and chucked a blast disk in there next turn. This spell saved us.
Don't forget that this spell can destroy a Beholder encounter, he can't see in the fog, so no eye rays, even if he uses the anti magic cone to see you, he can use eye rays inside the cone, so his only option is his weak bite attack. (Or grappling someone out of the fog, but noone needs to know that)
Just before dropping fogcloud on a beholder, have another caster drop the rarely used earthbind spell on the beholder to get rid of it's fly speed, then put a fogcloud around it. The beholder is now blind and immobile, and you can destroy it at your leisure.
Had a similar situation, where our party was fighting against a group of ninjas(both archers atop the roof, and melee rogues). I, a shadow monk, cast Darkness around our party, to shut down archers, and make ninjas unable to do sneak attack. What do you expect? They just. Waited. Archers prepared their actions to shoot on sight, anyone who came out of the fog, was damaged severely. And, on top of that, we were basically blind kittens, since we couldn't even notice where our enemies were(I understand that it's ninjas, but COME ON DM!). I guess, that could counter Darkness and Fog Cloud relatively well, and then it's use during battles becomes relatively limited. Anyway, we lost the encounter. Almost all of us died, even tho one of us, was literally an invincible Goo monster, who could see, in a magical darkness! I don't know if it is I who acted wrong, or DM really decided to go all HARDCORE on our first session, but I can't recall us winning any encounter afterwards, either. Campaign was great, even tho we didn't shine in those battles, or quests either. It was epic, and the story was good. We did end on the sad note, where everybody(even an invincible goo monster) died, but it was quite an adventure.
This gets even more interesting if you rule that you can't target a creature that you can't detect. Unless you have a way of locating and detecting creatures in the fog cloud, then this just lets everyone involved escape combat!
Fog cloud is also essentially the ultimate anti beholder spell. Every method The beholder has to attack you is reliant on sight, with the exception of it's bite. Now, you maybe be asking, if it's a spell, won't it just be shut down by the beholders anti magic? Yes, but so will the beholders abilities also. It can look at you directly, but if it does, it can't attack you with magic, and if it doesn't look at you with it's anti magic eye, then it can't see you to hit you with it's magic anyway . I would put money on 5 first level druids being able to take out a beholder simply with fog cloud, thorn whip, and sufficient Benny Hill music, but if you let the level up 3 2nd level druids or 2 3rd level druids could probably deal with a beholder rather easily as well. 2nd level because wild shaping into giant spiders makes it much easier, and at level 3 you get earth bind so it's easier to rangle. Ii
I did not consider the fact that enemies in fog cloud are considered blinded, therefore you have advantage on them, though I feel like most dms would just give the players disadvantage
Stinking Cloud is an even better version of this if you have a couple warforged (or other non-breathing pcs). Obviously it's 3rd vs 1st but enemies that either attack poorly or not at all don't do much. Some of the effectiveness of this depends on house rules though, with fog clouds just making everyone attack at disadvantage. It's a bit silly to cancel out all the bonuses and penalties there, but obviously that's RAW so YMMV.
Better to be alive and scared than dead and not feeling anything*. (*Anything except for your soul being wrenched from your broken corpse and hurled screaming into the maw of Cthulhu, but it's your own fault for not bothering to read the small print in the Pact.)
one time we were fighting a bunch of special orcs who were good at knocking you prone. after one full fight of their spellcaster creating difficult terrain and us getting knocked down and stuff, we decided to lay a trap for their leader. i as the bard sat in the middle of what used to be a city square (now ruined) as my allies, including a ranger with blind fighting, hid in the crumbling buildings. the orcs saw me, two of them rushed but didn’t have enough movement to attack me, i cast slow on the more dangerous ones in the back, and then the ranger cast fog cloud. i was then able to get away on my turn without provoking opportunity attacks as the ranger started hacking through them with a polearm and the lizardfolk hungry jaws ability. that was a fun fight.
I was in a similar scenario as a tier 2 Hunter ranger with Blind Fighting. I solo'd a pack of 6 Allosauruses by dropping a Fog Cloud and using Horde Breaker to hit an extra enemy each turn. Hardly a goddamn scratch.
Fog cloud + bat familiar + Dragons breath. Bats have 60ft blindsight, and can use the action granted by dragons breath to pin point targets for you. Then all you have to do is aim for the screaming.
Fog cloud - When other things can see better than you can make everyone blind. Also Blindfighting style is an insane addition to the game because rogues get it at level 14... I think it should be a 5ft radius instead of a 10ft, still very useful but not the exact same feature as a level 14 one.
Hehe Our DM recently ambushed our 3rd level party (containing Abj-Wizard, AberSorc & Hexblade) with 10 regular wolves, 3 direwolfs and and custom CR3 so called 'true-direwolf'. Our solution was Darkness. Well, mosly mine as a Hexblade. But it saved our arses. Yes, it's a cheese, but our DM is a deadly-hardcore-encounter maker, so one or two tactical f--ups and we're rolling a bunch of new characters. p.s. I also question 'Pack Tactics' property ruling, when wolves don't really see each other.
Very good information, I'll have to value fog cloud higher. However, you mention that party members won't necessarily know each other's location, which is untrue. Even if everyone is blinded the location of all creatures not behind total cover is known unless they are successfully hiding. You don't "see" them but you know exactly what square they are in.
How would you rule fog cloud? If I’m a ranger and shooting with a longbow while inside a fog cloud at enemies outside the fog cloud, do I have advantage? Or is it canceled out? The errata was interesting as enemies who try to see INTO a heavily obscured area attack at disadvantage but not those who are looking out of an obscured area.
Qustion. "You can see within range" Rules a written, I couldnt see the ground where my feets are. But does make that sense? A character surely could target that.
another interesting thing to comment is when you are in the fog cloude the opportunity attacks cant happened, becouse you need to see the creature to perform them.
Love the videos - very insightful. I like optimizing characters but also RP. So my question would be: How would you justify from an RP stand point to cast fogcloud on yourself, when surrounded by wolves. Isn't that purely metagaming to counter pack tactics?
@@PackTactics Fair enough ;) I just imagine that "fighting blind" against a predator with superior senses (hearing and smell) would be detrimental. Again, thanks for the videos. I learn a lot from them.
Hey what if you cast fog spell and you're a kobold with good memory and you put a noise at a very specific area and then inform the party members to run in the opposite direction of the sounds that are imitation of the party Then cast prestidigitation to put 1 cubic foot of ghost pepper flavor into the area where the noises are coming from into the fog and then with the wind etc. The flavor spreads into a makeshift lethal tear gas that kills most living creatures... If anyone wants to argue against this. Ask them to eat 1 cubic foot of ghost pepper and also put 1 cubic foot of ghost pepper into their eyes. If they don't get a heart attack then they can argue.
I once made an encounter with 10 Wolves because I rolled for the number. I accidentally used the Dire Wolf stat blocks when I meant to use the normal ones. I nearly TPKed the party.
I think it mostly depends of the player, but I never saw Fog Cloud as something that useful. It is a nice spell, but the disadvantage on your group can make the fight into a miss fest. But yeah, on this situation, there are very few 1st level spells that could help your group. The ones I can think of are Grease on the Dire Wolf (and even then it's not a great solution, since it only breaks 2 of them), Expeditious Retreat and Double Dash Action/Bonus Action or maaaaybe Burning Hands/Frost Fingers to try to kill some wolfs, but at the risk of putting the Wizard in danger.
@@M0ebius The Heavy Obscurement rules are pretty confusing. I'm constantly having to explain how it works to my own table, despite using it ALL THE TIME. For some reason there is just a mental block that makes people want to think that attacking while blinded is at disadvantage.
@@PackTactics I can't even get them to watch my own videos! My "Heavy Obscurment Deep Dive" is actually one of the ones I'm most proud of. But you'd think me reminding them of the rules EVERY SINGLE SESSION ("yeah guys, that's why I took the Alert Feat...") would make it stick, lol.
I honestly don't know anyone that plays with "two characters in total obscurement attack each other at neutral." Everyone I know plays it as "they attack each other at disadvantage," even though I think RAW it at least makes sense if you abstract combat a little morel
Well it’s not that two players in total obscurement roll neutral because they have are both at disadvantage. It’s because everyone in the dog cloud has both advantage and disadvantage and RAW it doesn’t matter how many of each you have, it’s a straight roll. Some people do play by going with whatever has more say someone has advantage from 2 sources and disadvantage from 1 they would still give you advantage but this is home brew and not RAW.
As a DM i would say: The giant ducks below the cloud his mobility turns to complete shit, but he is not blinded. That would include a not explicitly mentioned slash to the giants dex score significantly reducing AC. Which according to my quick research should lead to an decrease in AC of at least 2. What that does to the hit rate you can figure out yourself.
if i were the dm, i would rule with the squeeze rules. the large creature would be able to squeeze into the space of a medium creature and still be able to see the party
I know that is how its supposed to work but I really think if 2 blind creatures are trying to fight it should just be disadvantage for both as they are quite literally flailing around blindly. I'd probably homebrew it that you only get the advantage against a blind target if you yourself can see them.
Wolves with pact tactics still have straight rolls against someone with blind fighting Disadvantage from :can’t see attacked Advantage from : pack tactics They only lose out on Advantage from attacker can’t see them But that is still a straight roll
I get confused with these kinds of situations. I understand why the wolves have Advantage with Pact Tactics. I understand how Advantage and Disadvantage cancel each other out. How did the wolves then up with Disadvantage? Was that only against a character with Blind Fighting? 🐺
Is there a combination you can use with a bat familiar and blindsight? like, is it worth the action to see through the bat and be able to target enemies with spells?
They get advantage on passive perception for hearing and smell, so +5 extra, which means they can likely find you easily with their 18. They still can't see you to attack though, so they have disadvantage, or straight roll if pack tactics is active.
You do know where your teammates are. Hide action is the only way to remove location. The wolves perfectly surrounded the players. How did they do that if they don't know where they are? How do you figure out where someone is in the Fog if you don't know? You will never come up with an answer to that. Many have tried. All have failed.
Disadvantage from not being able to see the target, advantage from the target not being able to see you, advantage from pack tactics. I’m aware that the rules on multiple sources of advantage are weird but I’d like you to give me one reason why I shouldn’t count these wolves as having advantage. No DM I’ve ever played for rules it like that, that’s like ruling that stabilizing a creature has no range
The rules on advantage are very straight forward: "If circumstances cause a roll to have both advantage and disadvantage, you are considered to have neither of them, and you roll one d20. This is true even if multiple circumstances impose disadvantage and only one grants advantage or vice versa. In such a situation, you have neither advantage nor disadvantage."
@@anonymouskitten4715 1. It keeps the DM from having to keep track of every source of advantage/disadvantage. A big part of 5e was trying to remove the multiple bonus stacking that got so out of hand in 3.5. 2. It keeps players (and DMS) from being able to exploit their action economy advantage in yet another way. It's explicitly trying to fix situations like the above where you've got 5 wolves around you and they'd have 4 x advantage, and combat would be even more about who has more combatants.
Sorry, the situation on 4:00 doesn't make sense, i thought the wolves already have disadvantage on them to cancel put pack tactics, why do they get another disadvantage stacked on them, this is wrong no?
what about those without blindsight? wont they have disadvantage on their attack rolls? (unless they use save spells, which most martial classes dont have)
My ruling for casting the fog cloud in the air against the giant. The fog cloud has a density, it is fog therefore it would descend to the ground after a moment of lingering in the air. Meaning the giant's head would now be above the cloud, because you made it thin enough for the party to not be affected by it initially. Party gets advantage on the first round and giant gets disadvantage. Giant gets advantage after the first round, party gets disadvantage. Or if the cloud isn't as thin regarding its height, then disadvantage for both after the first round.
100% of the time i have seen a party member use Fog Cloud it have been directly detrimental to the Party. It's so bad we have defulted to cast Counterspell due to wasting 2 spells being worth preventing Fog Cloud (2 becouse Fog Cloud was casted by a party member)
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What I say about Blind Fighting is incorrect. The wolves still attack normally due to Pack Tactics, so its still 35% rather than 12% but the fighter has advantage on attack rolls.
yea I instantly jumped to comments and be like "wow thats wrong" :D yes its only fighter getting advantage wich is still great
I am terrified of reincarnating or being iskied to D&D, having never played I am fascinated by the game theory that must exist.
How would you prepare if you and say 5-15 friends had say 3 years warning? This is not a threat.
If you each got 5 levels free but wouldn't know your d&D starting point, what would you want people to pick?
Ever smoking bottle = Fog cloud without concentration & bigger cloud;)
Sword burst cantrip is made for fog & smoke.
When your party & DM think you are insane for spending around to thousand gold to seek out & purchase this common magic item.
I got nearly no gold, but my wizard got an unlimited 1st level spell for no slots.
(3:55) - Fighter has advantage? : actually because you are 'blinded' (1:57) (in the cloud) you have disadvantage to hit. But with 'Blind Fighting' (3:55) you gain advantage to hit. These cancel each other out (it doesn't matter how many times you have adv/disadv they only count once and if you have both you have a 'straight' roll)
So, everyone is just 'straight' rolling... no ADV or DISADV
@@ddtalks2821 blind fighting gives you a special Vision that allows you to see even when blinded you defender is not unseen, you don't get disadvantage
DM once engaged us with a bunch of enemies with devil's sight that were shrouded in magical darkness. It was going terribly until I realised that if I cast fog cloud on the area, nobody would be able to see and we'd no longer be at a significant disadvantage. Turned the fight from a likely loss to an easy victory.
i dont get how, if they have devils sight cant they see through fog cloud anyways?
@@duarteabreu3636 Devil's sight relates to darkness/magical darkness, but to see through fog you would need blindsight at the very least, which Devil's sight doesnt provide.
@@CaptainShenanigans42 hmmm interesting, although my initial interpretation of Devil's Sight was that "darkness, both magical and non magical" include any spells that would make it impossible to see. Guess I read it wrong then
@@duarteabreu3636 i like to think of it this way, devils sight doesn’t let you see threw walls/solid objects. The fog is like an object in the way of your Vision not a lack of light.
I can look through my bat familiar's eyes to ger blind-sight, this ➕️ fog cloud ➕️ blindfighting fighting style is basically an easier better darkness ➕️ devils sight combo
Dang... Next time i will just have my 3d6 Forcelance Wolves cast Gust of Wind. That will show em!
Force lance wolves?
What if the wolves have antimatter rifles?
Anti-matter fog cloud.
Why does this encounter exist. I hope I won’t have to face this though if they are 2nd level artificers they don’t use ammunition.
No thumbs, great loots :P
As long as magic cures radiation burns.
Double bonus, overcomes resistance due to the unavoidable(on-hit) annihilation reaction.
#Edit: I mean I would hope! As a man terrified of being isikied to d&d I have to admit magic beings may be strange matter in a physics way at it's base parts.
Anti-matter rifle ARE if annihilating magic adjacent or full magic objects on contact, your one 'if that's his real head this God is going down weapon'
PS. If you can also make a hydrogen container the size of a party balloon, you definitely HAVE a nuclear weapon.
Offer them a fair market price. If you don't have the funds ask them about payment plans. The anti-matter will make back its money very quickly in the right hands/paws.
Then you surrender to the cyborg wolves and escape their UFO later.
I've used this spell to great effect as a Moon Druid, combined with the Giant Centipede form's 30ft Blindsight. Using the Hide action to force my attackers to play battleship and sneaking in opportunity attacks as they stumbled around in the fog was great fun, very horror-movie like.
Oooh I'm just getting started as a druid and I hadn't figured out wildshape yet. Love fog cloud combos, thanks!
Personally I like using the giant spider but centipede works if your starting the campaign before lvl 5
@@ssZackaria I do agree with you here, actually. while the giant centipede's blindsight is *way* better than the giant spider's, the spider won't die in a single hit so it relies less on the hide action to keep itself from getting wrecked... it's fine with just everyone having disadvantage trying to hit it.
@@kevingriffith6011 yea that’s exactly my point plus with web attack too it is a very useful choice if you want to not only attack but restrain I personally like it for the sheer versatility and hp compared to the centipede but both are viable options
With tashas Druid feature you can cast find familiar, with a bat or something with blind sight and see with there senses, could this work with there blindsight Letting you to target them ?
Fog cloud also hard counters beholders. With a 1st level spell. Just keep everyone in the cloud; if the enemy doesn't gaze at you, they can't see you and can't use eye beams. If they do gaze, the anti-magic field prevents them from using their beams. All they can do is bite.
Until they fly up 30 feet
@@geralfcecani3841 You don't trap them in it, you have the party hang out inside and pop out to attack. The beholder can't see you inside the cloud to shoot beams at you and if it gazes at it to gain visibility, it can't fire beams into its own antimagic cone. Either way, bow-users will eventually be able to whittle it down. Darkness works for this too because beholders only have darkvision for some reason. And if it comes in to start biting it has probably lost.
@@Tuliems it could hold its action to shoot a eye beams then. Anyway, any DM you try and abuse turn order shenanigans in front of is gonna shoot that down fast, because "oH It CA'nT AtTacK uS sINcE iT'S nOT it'S TurN" is just plain daft
@@geralfcecani3841 readying a beam doesn’t do anything in this scenario.
The anti magic cone from the beholder prevents its eye beams from working, as the beams are magical.
The beams also require sight of the creature it’s trying to target, which is why fog cloud and darkness defeat the beams.
Readying an eye beam to target a creature would never work as in the scenario there is not a moment where the PCs are visible and outside of an anti magic cone.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole thing with beholders is they have some form of reality manipulation that they affect the world around them with. Wouldn't they just make us strong gust of wind to blow the smoke out of the way, especially in their layer? Also magical darkness wouldn't that be a dispelled by their gaze? I can see the fog staying because it doesn't say anything about it being magical in nature, but the darkness spell specifically states its magical which their gaze disrupts
Today i placed a fog cloud above my party, and combined it with sanctuary since the enemies shouted to target me after it. With it i managed to cancel out the kobold rogue's sunlight sensitivity, and then also give him advantage. Thanks for the videos
I have a funny story not about fog cloud but the mechanic that disadvantage and advantage cancel no matter how many of one and how few of another you have.
We were fighting a party of fairies, a satyr a naiad, a kored, a few others that died quickly like a sprite that don’t matter. The barbarian-Paladin was targeting by otto’s irresistible dance from the kored, while in a pool of chest high water, fighting a Nayad who was invisible in water. As well as being restrained by entangle cast by the dryad. (entangling a dancing target wasn't stupid, it targeted the entire party and the kored made the person most likely to resist dance)
He had dropped prone to give disadvantage on the arrows last turn prior to being restrained but after dancing, since there wasn't any significant melee threat (didn't know Kored can punch), The satyr revealer used frightening song to frighten him and his friends.
He had disadvantage because he was prone, frightened, underwater, restrained, dancing, and couldn’t see his target
But he used reckless attack. So. Straight roll.
Ever since then that mechanic bugs the shit out of me. Because I can only start to imagine more ways that pour Gaian could have gotten disadvantage on his attack rolls. What if his target had dodged? What about vicious mockery? Imagine if a fighter with the protector fighting style was next to the naiad? What if they were 10 feet away and prone and the barbarian was using a reach weapon? Etc etc. No matter how unfavorable it is, reckless attack cancels it ALL out. But it’s also the only reason fog cloud is as good as it is since mutual obscurement turns advantage off
I love this, fog cloud is fantastic.
However I don’t think that if the fighter had blindsight the wolves would have disadvantage.
They would have the advantage from pack tactics + disadvantage from fog cloud which cancel out, and any additional sources of advantage or disadvantage don’t matter.
Having blind fighting would 100% help the fighter offensively though
The fighter gets advantage, the wolves straight roll.
Wow, this is the sort of analysis I've been looking for! Actual concrete examples rather than generalities
Amen. I've been preaching the gospel of Fog Cloud for years! Players still aren't picking it enough.
Best video yet! Love to see how you're getting the hang of it :-)
Love Fog Cloud and agree that it's a must have (unless you prefer Pyrotechnics)!
One point, unless your party members Hide, you know exactly what square they're in, for purposes of placing your AOE spells.
Also, thanks for the shoutout!
Attacks of opportunity require that the attacker can see their target. This is an often forgotten detail that can be used to great advantage in combination with spells like Fog Cloud.
great counter for devil's sight cheese never thought of that before
Love how you explain it all easy and visual, keep up the good work!
If a devil or true sight having enemy ever weaponizes darkness against you, plop the fog cloud over the darkness. You have negated a second level spell with a first. And even better than the wolf example not only have you negated the enemy having advantage on all their attack rolls, but you negated the fact that you had disadvantage on all yours against the enemy.
Although if you know you’re going into that encounter and you’re level 5 or higher I’d suggest daylight since it prevents them from benefiting from darkness until daylight is dispelled, but that spell is significantly more expensive and also not as widely useful as fog cloud, which can effectively turn off the disadvantage/advantage mechanic from any source not just darkness. It’s just the most notable one.
Don't forget you can upcast fog cloud to greatly increase it's area. It scales linearly with spell level.
Indeed, this is one of very few low level spells actually consider burning one of .y highest spell slots on.
Any warlocks get this? Could be cool
@@KingMJAH Genie can get it if you pick Marid as your patron. Half-Elf with Mark of Storm and Triton are also options, and so is any Strixhaven background other than Silverquill.
Yup, super useful spell I used while fighting a Basilisk. Realised that not only were we swinging with great difficulty, but because we'd have our eyes closed, we couldn't defend well either. So I decided that no one was able to see because it would make everything an even playing field.
3:54 Wouldn't the disadvantage from Blind Fighting not apply because the wolves already have disadvantage, cancelled by Pack Tactics advantage? Their attacks would still be normal rolls. (Great video btw, just a detail I wanted to bring attention to)
So would players rolls. You are attacking a blinded enemy (adv.), but you are also blinded (disadvantage), which evens out to normal roll.
@@dawidjagodzinski1597 No because, thanks to Blind Fighting, you can effectively see through the Fog Cloud, so your attacks DO have advantage, but the wolves attacks aren't at disadvantage thanks to Pack Tactics
You are absolutely right. I misread blind fighting with being blinded while fighting. Thank you for your reply
I love this spell and this video does it justice
I'm thinking of making a fun wind based druid build that will use this spell
4:28 Yeah. That's a chunk of combat cantrips:
> Need Sigh: Acid Splash, Create Bonfire, Frostbite, Infestation, Lightning Lure, Mind Sliver, Poison Spray, Sacred Flame (funny the one that ignores cover benefits needs sight), Toll the Dead, Vicious Mockery & Word of Radiance.
> No Need: Chill Touch, Eldritch Blast, Fire Bolt, Green-Flame Blade (but with no bounce), Booming Blade, Primal Savagery, Produce Flame , Ray of Frost, Sapping Sting, Shocking Grasp, Sword Burst, Thorn Whip & Thunderclap.
Because of how Rules as Written are, Fog cloud also allows you to shoot a long bow at 600 ft with normal attack instead of disadvantage while in the cloud. This is why i changed the Blinded condition so that you only get advantage against targets you can see that are blinded but have disadvantage if you are blinded, this makes it so if a whole group of people are blinded they all have disadvantage against eachother instead of all normal attacks. while still making blinded a good condition.
here is a thought for you that my dm allowed me to do with fog cloud once. My druid of Twilight did this once against a medusa and the mine she was in, but it wasn't a simple fog cloud I has used Harvest's Scythe to augment the spell to do 1d6 necrotic damage for the duration of the spell. So not only did the spell did as you showed but it also allowed us to safely comb the mines for threats by moving the cloud ahead of us till we found the mini boss, Medusa, and used the necrotic damage and aoe damage to wear her down and eventually downed her.
Once had a DM give a Gloomstalker CBE/SS the ability to see in fog cloud. Methinks he will come to regret it sooner than later.
Uff! Thats a hell of a boost!
What's CDE/SS ?
@@WilhelmMfoudou Crossbow Expert Sharpshooter
If you have a bat familiar and can use its senses you're golden, especially if you can deliver shocking grasps through it.
I'm currently rocking what I believe is one of if not the best Fog Cloud exploiter at level 5 in a campaign I currently play in. My DM loves to hate me for this.
Arcane Trickster 4, Fighter 1
Armed with a whip and a shield
Blind fighting style, sentinel feat
With two of the spells being Fog Cloud and Booming Blade
This is hilarious.
You run up 10ft from your opponent, cast the fog cloud and hide with your bonus action. If your opponent for some reason can't find the rogue with stealth expertise in the fog then they'll likely try to get away, so you Sentinel Attack of Opp Sneak Attack them with advantage, which stops them too far away from you to use their action to attack.
Then next turn you move up, Booming Blade Sneak Attack them, and either hide again or disengage 5ft as a bonus action.
If you hide, and your opponent can't find you again, they're likely to try and get away again, in which case you let them go 5ft to trigger Booming Blade before you trigger your Attack of Opp and screw up their turn like the first turn all over again.
Or if you disengage 5ft, you insult your opponents choice in footwear and let them pick their poison between trying to run and get stopped again or engage you, take the Booming Blade and try to hit you with disadvantage from the fog that is your friend.
This is not even the whole of the BS this build can pull. I'm having a ton of fun with this.
You can also use it to blind archers or ranged opponents. It was super useful against an enemy mage at lower levels
Wouldn't it extend the range of their longbow due to advantage/disadvantage cancel? It doesn't work how you're saying because you can't see them either. You'd just be buffing them.
@@jrg305 if they know where your at in the cloud yes. Otherwise they have to guess the space.
This is some really interesting ideas for a spell I really like but struggle to find a place for.
I did a bit of the opposite of this once though. Our party were set to rush a group of archers. Rather than letting us risk being torn to shreds by arrows I used a third level slot to put a massive cloud between us. Our party rushed through the fog while the archers had no idea what to aim for. 2 rounds later my party exited the cloud and started mowing down the archers, it was easy once our melee fighters got on top of them. I just stayed in the cloud until I heard my friends started taking damage, peaked out, threw some healing if it was needed and then ducked back into the fog bank.
Fog Cloud is such an underrated spell and I’ve never gotten the chance to pick it up as a caster nor have an ally do it, and it’s _so frustrating having it be just out of reach._ Like Artificers should just have Fog Cloud on their spell list, it just works so well!
Under rated content creator, keep up the good work
You convinced me when you said it counters petrification
Very recently I saw this used to great effect. We were attacked by invisible duergar and wall of fog totally nullified their strategy. We moved in the wall, used stealth action then next round perception action instead of basically be in the mercy of their advantage attack rolls.
But can you solve the 3d6d6 half-dragon mizzmage giant's might permanently huge wolves problem?
This spell is a pretty effective way to balance an encounter with a beholder in the players' favor. The fog in the antimagic eye cone is suppressed, but nothing in it can be targeted by the eye rays. Players call out to each other where they and the beholder are located and boom. If someone can grapple it, everyone gets at least one round to lay into it for free.
Another way of negating petrification is using the spell "Animate objects" on your party, what is that medusa gonna do? Petrificate stone?
I appreciate your spell videos. As a new wizard it helps me not only know how these work but also explain them to my dm who is not used to running a campaign with spellcasters. ❤️❤️
0:20 heeey I recognize that map, thats that village in the lost mines of phandelver!
Wolves are scary. So many damned crits last session by them. Hells the DM rolled 3 Nat 20s in a row
Awesome video man! Keep it up, looking forward to future uploads!
Fog cloud is my go to escape option for reasons this video summarizes perfectly
You can also hide in the fog, making it an especially good grab for rogues and goblins since they can hide as a bonus action, usually with very little opportunity cost.
Fog Cloud has always been a great spell.
I'd just Silent image a smoke cloud n tell the team it's an illusion so they can see through it then we have advantage and they have disadvantage, hell do it for free with mostly visions because bits fucking Useful as hell if you are creative enough
I used this in an Eberron game where we played as Brailish Redcloaks attempting to capture an enemy fort. They had mages in the bunker with Magic Missiles that were shredding our juggernaut and annihilating anyone lucky enough to make it 50 yards into the enemy trench. I cast one single fog cloud on the bunker's opening and chucked a blast disk in there next turn. This spell saved us.
Don't forget that this spell can destroy a Beholder encounter, he can't see in the fog, so no eye rays, even if he uses the anti magic cone to see you, he can use eye rays inside the cone, so his only option is his weak bite attack.
(Or grappling someone out of the fog, but noone needs to know that)
Just before dropping fogcloud on a beholder, have another caster drop the rarely used earthbind spell on the beholder to get rid of it's fly speed, then put a fogcloud around it. The beholder is now blind and immobile, and you can destroy it at your leisure.
Had a similar situation, where our party was fighting against a group of ninjas(both archers atop the roof, and melee rogues). I, a shadow monk, cast Darkness around our party, to shut down archers, and make ninjas unable to do sneak attack. What do you expect? They just. Waited. Archers prepared their actions to shoot on sight, anyone who came out of the fog, was damaged severely. And, on top of that, we were basically blind kittens, since we couldn't even notice where our enemies were(I understand that it's ninjas, but COME ON DM!). I guess, that could counter Darkness and Fog Cloud relatively well, and then it's use during battles becomes relatively limited.
Anyway, we lost the encounter. Almost all of us died, even tho one of us, was literally an invincible Goo monster, who could see, in a magical darkness! I don't know if it is I who acted wrong, or DM really decided to go all HARDCORE on our first session, but I can't recall us winning any encounter afterwards, either. Campaign was great, even tho we didn't shine in those battles, or quests either. It was epic, and the story was good. We did end on the sad note, where everybody(even an invincible goo monster) died, but it was quite an adventure.
This gets even more interesting if you rule that you can't target a creature that you can't detect. Unless you have a way of locating and detecting creatures in the fog cloud, then this just lets everyone involved escape combat!
Dude, at 3:58 even if fighter has blind sight, wolves still have pack tactics. It's still a straight roll for them.
I know, I get this comment every month. Relax lol.
@@PackTactics Good. This means a lot of people keep listening to your videos thoroughly and thoughtfully. Good.
Fog cloud is also essentially the ultimate anti beholder spell. Every method The beholder has to attack you is reliant on sight, with the exception of it's bite. Now, you maybe be asking, if it's a spell, won't it just be shut down by the beholders anti magic? Yes, but so will the beholders abilities also. It can look at you directly, but if it does, it can't attack you with magic, and if it doesn't look at you with it's anti magic eye, then it can't see you to hit you with it's magic anyway .
I would put money on 5 first level druids being able to take out a beholder simply with fog cloud, thorn whip, and sufficient Benny Hill music, but if you let the level up 3 2nd level druids or 2 3rd level druids could probably deal with a beholder rather easily as well. 2nd level because wild shaping into giant spiders makes it much easier, and at level 3 you get earth bind so it's easier to rangle. Ii
I did not consider the fact that enemies in fog cloud are considered blinded, therefore you have advantage on them, though I feel like most dms would just give the players disadvantage
Stinking Cloud is an even better version of this if you have a couple warforged (or other non-breathing pcs). Obviously it's 3rd vs 1st but enemies that either attack poorly or not at all don't do much.
Some of the effectiveness of this depends on house rules though, with fog clouds just making everyone attack at disadvantage. It's a bit silly to cancel out all the bonuses and penalties there, but obviously that's RAW so YMMV.
I understand that this works, but there’s just something about blinding yourself when surrounded by a huge pack of animals that scares me.
Better to be alive and scared than dead and not feeling anything*.
(*Anything except for your soul being wrenched from your broken corpse and hurled screaming into the maw of Cthulhu, but it's your own fault for not bothering to read the small print in the Pact.)
I love Fog Cloud
one time we were fighting a bunch of special orcs who were good at knocking you prone. after one full fight of their spellcaster creating difficult terrain and us getting knocked down and stuff, we decided to lay a trap for their leader.
i as the bard sat in the middle of what used to be a city square (now ruined) as my allies, including a ranger with blind fighting, hid in the crumbling buildings. the orcs saw me, two of them rushed but didn’t have enough movement to attack me, i cast slow on the more dangerous ones in the back, and then the ranger cast fog cloud. i was then able to get away on my turn without provoking opportunity attacks as the ranger started hacking through them with a polearm and the lizardfolk hungry jaws ability. that was a fun fight.
I was in a similar scenario as a tier 2 Hunter ranger with Blind Fighting. I solo'd a pack of 6 Allosauruses by dropping a Fog Cloud and using Horde Breaker to hit an extra enemy each turn. Hardly a goddamn scratch.
Fog cloud + bat familiar + Dragons breath.
Bats have 60ft blindsight, and can use the action granted by dragons breath to pin point targets for you. Then all you have to do is aim for the screaming.
I was considering picking up Fog Cloud + Blind Fighting With my monk/Ranger halfling... NOW im def doing to! LOL
"you dont know where your party is in the fog"
unless they took the hide action, you know exactly where they are
Fog cloud - When other things can see better than you can make everyone blind. Also Blindfighting style is an insane addition to the game because rogues get it at level 14... I think it should be a 5ft radius instead of a 10ft, still very useful but not the exact same feature as a level 14 one.
I think Rangers also get something like that at higher levels, some sort of instinct thing.
Hehe
Our DM recently ambushed our 3rd level party (containing Abj-Wizard, AberSorc & Hexblade) with 10 regular wolves, 3 direwolfs and and custom CR3 so called 'true-direwolf'.
Our solution was Darkness. Well, mosly mine as a Hexblade. But it saved our arses.
Yes, it's a cheese, but our DM is a deadly-hardcore-encounter maker, so one or two tactical f--ups and we're rolling a bunch of new characters.
p.s. I also question 'Pack Tactics' property ruling, when wolves don't really see each other.
Anything but 3d6 wolves!
Very good information, I'll have to value fog cloud higher. However, you mention that party members won't necessarily know each other's location, which is untrue. Even if everyone is blinded the location of all creatures not behind total cover is known unless they are successfully hiding. You don't "see" them but you know exactly what square they are in.
Also the alert feat says creatures don't have advantage to hit as the result of being unseen. You roll straight, they have disadvantage
I really like this intro. Good job
How would you rule fog cloud?
If I’m a ranger and shooting with a longbow while inside a fog cloud at enemies outside the fog cloud, do I have advantage? Or is it canceled out?
The errata was interesting as enemies who try to see INTO a heavily obscured area attack at disadvantage but not those who are looking out of an obscured area.
Both you and the creature have straight rolls because both of you cant see each other but you know the creature is there.
Qustion. "You can see within range" Rules a written, I couldnt see the ground where my feets are.
But does make that sense? A character surely could target that.
another interesting thing to comment is when you are in the fog cloude the opportunity attacks cant happened, becouse you need to see the creature to perform them.
this is why, you conjure 8 wolves with conjure animals becuase of what he said about wolves and pack tactics.
Love the videos - very insightful. I like optimizing characters but also RP. So my question would be: How would you justify from an RP stand point to cast fogcloud on yourself, when surrounded by wolves. Isn't that purely metagaming to counter pack tactics?
I assume you're a trained advanturer or heard people talk about wolves before. Wolves are incredibly common.
@@PackTactics Fair enough ;) I just imagine that "fighting blind" against a predator with superior senses (hearing and smell) would be detrimental. Again, thanks for the videos. I learn a lot from them.
Hey what if you cast fog spell and you're a kobold with good memory and you put a noise at a very specific area and then inform the party members to run in the opposite direction of the sounds that are imitation of the party
Then cast prestidigitation to put 1 cubic foot of ghost pepper flavor into the area where the noises are coming from into the fog and then with the wind etc. The flavor spreads into a makeshift lethal tear gas that kills most living creatures...
If anyone wants to argue against this. Ask them to eat 1 cubic foot of ghost pepper and also put 1 cubic foot of ghost pepper into their eyes. If they don't get a heart attack then they can argue.
I once made an encounter with 10 Wolves because I rolled for the number. I accidentally used the Dire Wolf stat blocks when I meant to use the normal ones. I nearly TPKed the party.
I think it mostly depends of the player, but I never saw Fog Cloud as something that useful. It is a nice spell, but the disadvantage on your group can make the fight into a miss fest. But yeah, on this situation, there are very few 1st level spells that could help your group. The ones I can think of are Grease on the Dire Wolf (and even then it's not a great solution, since it only breaks 2 of them), Expeditious Retreat and Double Dash Action/Bonus Action or maaaaybe Burning Hands/Frost Fingers to try to kill some wolfs, but at the risk of putting the Wizard in danger.
It wouldn’t be disadvantage if the wolves are also blinded. Attacking blinded targets gives you advantage, which cancels out the disadvantage.
@@M0ebius Ah yeah, forgot about that.
@@M0ebius The Heavy Obscurement rules are pretty confusing. I'm constantly having to explain how it works to my own table, despite using it ALL THE TIME. For some reason there is just a mental block that makes people want to think that attacking while blinded is at disadvantage.
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons Just show them this video. I tried to make it as simple as possible.
@@PackTactics I can't even get them to watch my own videos! My "Heavy Obscurment Deep Dive" is actually one of the ones I'm most proud of. But you'd think me reminding them of the rules EVERY SINGLE SESSION ("yeah guys, that's why I took the Alert Feat...") would make it stick, lol.
I honestly don't know anyone that plays with "two characters in total obscurement attack each other at neutral." Everyone I know plays it as "they attack each other at disadvantage," even though I think RAW it at least makes sense if you abstract combat a little morel
Well it’s not that two players in total obscurement roll neutral because they have are both at disadvantage. It’s because everyone in the dog cloud has both advantage and disadvantage and RAW it doesn’t matter how many of each you have, it’s a straight roll. Some people do play by going with whatever has more say someone has advantage from 2 sources and disadvantage from 1 they would still give you advantage but this is home brew and not RAW.
As a DM i would say: The giant ducks below the cloud his mobility turns to complete shit, but he is not blinded. That would include a not explicitly mentioned slash to the giants dex score significantly reducing AC. Which according to my quick research should lead to an decrease in AC of at least 2. What that does to the hit rate you can figure out yourself.
Lol. The crouch condition.
if i were the dm, i would rule with the squeeze rules. the large creature would be able to squeeze into the space of a medium creature and still be able to see the party
That's cool but how effective would it be if it's fighting on hands and knees? That should still be disadvantage to attack and advantage to get hit.
I know that is how its supposed to work but I really think if 2 blind creatures are trying to fight it should just be disadvantage for both as they are quite literally flailing around blindly. I'd probably homebrew it that you only get the advantage against a blind target if you yourself can see them.
Fog cloud also negates attacks of opportunity as those require someone to be able to see someone's else leaving their range..
0:33 Roll credits!
Kobold, love your videos btw.
Can you use fog cloud to end an encounter? Like escape because im low hp.
Ohhh, this finally made me realize why casting darkness on yourself against a dragon is such a terrible idea...
Wolves with pact tactics still have straight rolls against someone with blind fighting
Disadvantage from :can’t see attacked
Advantage from : pack tactics
They only lose out on
Advantage from attacker can’t see them
But that is still a straight roll
0:20 outrunning them may be hard, but my Armorer Artificer with Longstrider had 50 feet of speed AND killed several of the wolves before escaping.
I get confused with these kinds of situations. I understand why the wolves have Advantage with Pact Tactics. I understand how Advantage and Disadvantage cancel each other out. How did the wolves then up with Disadvantage? Was that only against a character with Blind Fighting? 🐺
Thats an error I made, I mentioned it in the discription.
Fog cloud would be a sphere, wouldn't it? So, casting it at higher elevations shouldn't be giving significant benefits.
absolutely.
And then the DM says, the wind blow up your fog cloud. We are in the outsides and there is wind here.
Is there a combination you can use with a bat familiar and blindsight? like, is it worth the action to see through the bat and be able to target enemies with spells?
If you have a friend with Cloud of Daggers, you just need a minor illusion and you get yourself a wolf blender.
The wolves do not have to enter the fog and just attack later. That happen to some groups I was in
How does the wolves “keen hearing and smell” come into play during this type of encounter?
They get advantage on passive perception for hearing and smell, so +5 extra, which means they can likely find you easily with their 18.
They still can't see you to attack though, so they have disadvantage, or straight roll if pack tactics is active.
YEEEEY NEW WIDEO
What ia that combat calculador he uses? Would really help setting the next combats
You do know where your teammates are. Hide action is the only way to remove location. The wolves perfectly surrounded the players. How did they do that if they don't know where they are? How do you figure out where someone is in the Fog if you don't know? You will never come up with an answer to that. Many have tried. All have failed.
hmmm Pack Tactics giving advantage makes Handling Mob rules difficult to apply
This is actually first spell i ever casted almost 20years ago
Disadvantage from not being able to see the target, advantage from the target not being able to see you, advantage from pack tactics. I’m aware that the rules on multiple sources of advantage are weird but I’d like you to give me one reason why I shouldn’t count these wolves as having advantage. No DM I’ve ever played for rules it like that, that’s like ruling that stabilizing a creature has no range
The rules on advantage are very straight forward:
"If circumstances cause a roll to have both advantage and disadvantage, you are considered to have neither of them, and you roll one d20. This is true even if multiple circumstances impose disadvantage and only one grants advantage or vice versa. In such a situation, you have neither advantage nor disadvantage."
@@rich63113 did you read my comment? Ik what raw is and no sane dm would ever rule it that way
@@anonymouskitten4715 The vast majority of DMs run it that way. There's a reason it's that way.
@@rich63113 what is that reason?
@@anonymouskitten4715
1. It keeps the DM from having to keep track of every source of advantage/disadvantage. A big part of 5e was trying to remove the multiple bonus stacking that got so out of hand in 3.5.
2. It keeps players (and DMS) from being able to exploit their action economy advantage in yet another way. It's explicitly trying to fix situations like the above where you've got 5 wolves around you and they'd have 4 x advantage, and combat would be even more about who has more combatants.
Sorry, the situation on 4:00 doesn't make sense, i thought the wolves already have disadvantage on them to cancel put pack tactics, why do they get another disadvantage stacked on them, this is wrong no?
Yeah it seems you're right.
Way ahead of both of you, been adressed in my discription. :) Its too late to reupload it.
@@PackTactics well played I guess
what about those without blindsight? wont they have disadvantage on their attack rolls? (unless they use save spells, which most martial classes dont have)
this is really useful and with a bat familiar, vision base spells would still work (correct me if im wrong)
It takes your action every turn to see through your familiar's eyes, so not really.
if its a sphere, casting in +5 feet above ground is hard no?
My ruling for casting the fog cloud in the air against the giant.
The fog cloud has a density, it is fog therefore it would descend to the ground after a moment of lingering in the air. Meaning the giant's head would now be above the cloud, because you made it thin enough for the party to not be affected by it initially. Party gets advantage on the first round and giant gets disadvantage. Giant gets advantage after the first round, party gets disadvantage.
Or if the cloud isn't as thin regarding its height, then disadvantage for both after the first round.
100% of the time i have seen a party member use Fog Cloud it have been directly detrimental to the Party. It's so bad we have defulted to cast Counterspell due to wasting 2 spells being worth preventing Fog Cloud (2 becouse Fog Cloud was casted by a party member)