At 3:30 I said hours instead of days. Its days. Counterspell doesn't work on scrolls guys. Stop posting it does. i.imgur.com/8mGdutM.png i.imgur.com/xOLosjw.png P 141 DMG, activating an item, spells: "Some magic items allow the user to cast a spell from the item, often by expending charges from it. The spell is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level, doesn't expend any of the user's spell slots, and requires no components unless the item's description says otherwise." Counterspell casting time: 1 reaction, which you take when you see a creature within 60 feet of you casting a spell So we establish that it's not just when a spell is cast, but you need to see it being cast. This is why subtle spell metamagic counterspell is a known way to "end" a counterspell war. As for what says scroll casting is invisible? XGtE, P85, Spellcasting, Perceiving a Caster at Work: But what about the act of casting a spell? Is it possible for someone to perceive that a spell is being cast in their presence? To be perceptible, the casting of a spell must involve a verbal, somatic, or material component. In conclusion: You need to see a spell being cast to counterspell it. A spell must have a verbal, somatic, or material component to be perceptible. Spells cast from magic items have no verbal, somatic, or material components. Because casting a spell from a scroll is casting from a magic item, it has no components, is not perceptible, and cannot be counterspelled. Here is a quote from JC himself. "Spell scrolls follow the normal rule for casting a spell from a magic item: you don't need to provide any components to cast the spell (V, S, or M)." www.sageadvice.eu/casting-from-a-spell-scroll-it-doesnt-say-it-requires-v-s-components/ It not requiring material components does NOT mean it requires the others. It is just repeating an already known fact. Ok. You guys can stop now. If you want to brew it differently, you can. Here have a meme: imgur.com/a/LttfHi9
"Unless the item's description says otherwise" in this case the description for spell scrolls only mentions that material components are not neccessary. Whether that overrules general magic item usage rules outright, thus still requiring verbal and somatic components if needed is up for debate.
This rule doesn't seem applicable. The rule on magic items is for casting spells through the magic item, as stated often by using charges. Moreover spell scrolls do not state the spell is cast through or using the scroll, it states YOU cast read the scroll AND (YOU) cast the spell. This would also be why it needs to be on your spell list to cast it, since you are casting the spell not the item, as a wand of magic missiles would. The spell has any verbal and somatic components it should normally have, just no material components. Theoretically RAW this means you need 2 hands to use a spell scroll, one to hold it to read and one to do the somatic components. Honestly I hate all of these stipulations, but this is how spell scrolls work RAW.
Even if I squint very hard reading it, I cannot see any way in which the underlined text has any relevance to the issue of counterspell. Counterspell: "You attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of casting a spell." That's it. Nothing about how the spell is cast. It's not a 'ruin casting components' spell. Spell Scrolls: "If the spell is on your class's spell list you can use an action to read the scroll *and cast its spell* without providing any material components." (emphasis mine) You're "casting a spell", so you presumably can be interrupted in the process of casting it. Again, components have nothing to do with it.
"@JeremyECrawford If a spell cast from a spell scroll is counterspelled, does the scroll lose its magic as if the spell was cast?" JC: "When successful, counterspell foils a spell that is cast. The casting isn't undone. The spell fails and is wasted."
I know shield scrolls can be used as a reaction, but it's hilarious to me to imagine a wizard pulling a spell out of their bag, reading it, and having it take effect all in the time it takes someone to fire an arrow at them.
I'd rule you'd have to keep whatever you wanted to use on your belt or something, otherwise it's an action to search your pack. I feel like there's a rule on this, but that's my take. You don't have access to whatever you want within your 200+ lbs of gear within less than 6 seconds.
@@MacroAggressor i'd liken prepped-scrolls to be akin to a grenade-belt. you have 5-6 on-hand at most, ideally of 2-3 types only and if you need something more specialist you have to spend the turn (or more) digging around for that particular scroll in your bags. so staple a few shield/ward spells to your belt, slip a sleep scroll under the cuff of your gloves and whatever you do don't mix up the featherfall with the disintigrate
For wizards, I would recommend a scroll of feather fall. You don't need it often, but when you need it, *you need it*, and it frees open a slot to prepare
If you are lucky enough to have a level 13 thief rogue in the party, feed them scrolls. Feed them practically any concentration buff spell you want but can’t afford to concentrate on. As part of their Use Magic Device class feature, they can bypass class requirements and use those scrolls. Given that they are typically a non-caster class, them concentrating on a spell might even slip under the radar for some of your more savvy opponents.
People do enjoy crapping on the Thief subclass but with good teamwork like what's written here you can put that "niche and sub par" ability to excellent use.
In addition to this, if you have a spell, you are a spellcaster. There are a few magic items in the game that have this stipulation on attunement: "requires attunement by a spellcaster." All High Elves are spellcasters, because they get a cantrip. Items with this stipulation: - Wand of Binding, Fireballs, Lightning Bolts, Paralysis, Polymorph, War Mage, Web, and Wonder. (DMG) - Illusionist's Bracers (GGR) - Pearl of Power (DMG) - Voyager Staff (GGR)
@@snazzyfeathers I'm second this. Rogue Thief is my main class in 5e. I feel you when it comes to people crapping on the class because it looks weak, not understanding stealth, and the amount of sell-able loot they would otherwise leave behind. No one thinks about how valuable the mundane stuff is.
Wait they only bypass class race and level requirements. Wouldn't they have to do the check for spells higher than they can normally cast using their spell casting ability, that don't have?
@@lolsuperpoop don’t think too hard on it. For the purpose of reading a wizard scroll, just treat them as a wizard of high enough level to use the scroll properly as they bypass class and level restrictions. If a 13th level wizard can normally cast a 3rd level spell, then a thief rogue can use a 3rd level scroll even if they cannot cast spells themselves.
Arcane tricksters with a decent intelligence and expertise in arcana could make those arcana checks very reliable. Especially with reliable talent. Considering new options for my next characters, even a dip for expertise would be amazing.
I'm playing a full wizard and I picked up the Skill Expert feat on a whim as it let me round my INT to 18 while completing my skill proficiency to be all INT skills as well as getting expertise in Arcana. It may be partially to do the the west march nature of the game but having that Expertise has felt and worked out great for me! And now I'm hoping to get a reflavoured Mizzium Apperatus, because with my +11 Arcana (+4 INT +3×2 PROF +1 Stone of Good Luck) I have a 100% chance to successfully cast any wizard spell, regardless of if it's even in my spellbook or not, of 2nd level or lower and for 3rd level spells (that I haven't regularly prepared) it's still a 95% chance of success with the other 5% being some other random spell.
Alternatively, you could dip into ranger for Canny and Favored Foe if you have the wisdom (e.i. druid or cleric). I'd say Sneak Attack is better for a dex-based gish, but you'll be able to actually use Favored Foe if you're a pure caster, or use any other stat for melee. It's not much damage ultimately, but it's better than none. Whereas, if you already have someone in the party that knows thieves' cant, there's no reason not to take the bonus languages, plus I feel bonus languages will be more flexible generally.
I like that scrolls can be used to keep a casting of important utility spells available outside of spell preparations. A few scrolls of featherfall and waterbreathing can be life savers when situations change unexpectedly. Also I think the their rogue can use any scroll with their use magic item feature.
Reaction spells are a little weird conceptually. You're telling me you can retrieve, unfurl, and read a scroll in time to react? Mechanically, on a reaction you don't have the free interaction to retrieve the scroll to you hand, so these could only be effective if you were actively carrying them around.
@@MrJerks93 Yeah it gets a little iffy. Like clearly it would be possible if a gnoll charges at you for 30 feet over 6 seconds to be able to cast shield, less so if a monster right next to you just attacks. So it might be up to the DM. I always liked the idea of a spell scroll holster that holds like 2 or 3 scrolls specifically to be used at a moments notice and just let those particular scrolls work as reactions but not others. That isnt even getting into the nature of something like casting featherfall while falling. Though technically if a spell has a material component can it really be cast without the free interct with object action under the same rules for a scroll.
Scrolls from 3rd lv or lower are relatively cheap to craft and you can hugely reduce the time spent on it by getting help from a group of npcs you have met/rescued on the campaign.
I mean... they are not easy unless you got a build to make them easier to craft like you need to be someting that doesn't sleep to craft them on adventure or make party take a break if not on timer
Some DMs just outright refuse to allow scribing scrolls. I’ve been on a few Westmarch servers where it’s outright banned, so the OP isn’t alone when it comes to this kind of thing.
@@jb123581 This is the main reason why scrolls are not commonly seen despite how good they are, they are ultimately considered magic items and prone to a ton of dm fiat.
@@WildBandit300 As a DM myself I can definitely see why they would be considered OP. But here's my take: The table gives downtime needed to scribe scrolls, as long as the players are constantly doing something, they aren't going to be scribing scrolls often. Having a sense of urgency when needed is important for storytelling, so the players might not even want to take downtime, like my players. However, it's not my job to tell the players how to spend their downtime when they feel as if they've earned/gotten a window for downtime. If they have a day or a week of downtime, and they wanna make scrolls, go right ahead. Edit: Just thought of this. If a DM thinks players are taking too much downtime, always keep this in mind. Players too if their DM is thinking of this. The world is constantly moving forward. The bad guys are still plotting and scheming, and while the players are taking downtime, their enemies are closing in. Those scrolls might not come in so handy if the town they were supposed to be protecting was completely destroyed while they were making the scrolls they thought would help them. That's plot, and would teach a valuable lesson.
Of note, on spells like revivify, scrolls that require a consumed costly components also requires you expend those components in the creation of the scroll. This means scribing them yourself does not give you a discount on anything but the usual cost of the scroll itself, and similarly that scrolls on the market would include the costly component as part of their price, in the same way that casting services do. I believe this is spelled out in the rules, I know for sure it was in 3.5. Even if it's not it's be a rare or ignorant DM that doesn't rule as such.
Even so, the contingency of having it in a form that others can use, in case it's the healer that goes down. Plus then you don't need to keep it prepared at all times.
You are correct, in the dmg it does specify when creating a scroll you still spend material components, however I rather have a bank of revivfy ready on the inside of my cloak than carry around the extra gold and need to use an action to access certain items from bag of holding. (Assuming you have a RAW dm and you don't like the idea of walking around with tons of valuable materials on display)
Yeah, I find it interesting that Kobold even mentions you pay the cost when crafting the scroll, but then points out when stating to have a Revivify scroll it doesn't require components. It did, just when you scribed it. Now there are advantages, not walking around with a 300gp diamond and instead a piece of paper rolled up with other paper might hopefully be less of a target to theft and as mentioned by Aleander that if the healer who has Revivify memorized goes down you have other options to cast it.
@@LuckySketches the other person has to be able to cast the spell or have it on their spell list. So if you only have one healer with Revivify and they go down, then your scroll doesn't really help. It does help with negotiating when you go to town and ask a healer there to cast it for you. But having more then one healing class in a party is important. To be fair for a Revivify scroll can be cast by a lot of people thanks to Tasha's, though some may need to make the roll for it being higher level then they can cast yet (mostly the half casters of Artificers, Paladins and Rangers) until they hit level 9.
@@freakyleaky1077 the scroll is also probably worth more than it's ingredients for its labor and expertise... so your probably making merchandise which could be sold.
I got into a discussion with my GM about this exact issue about Counterspell and Scrolls. Thanks for providing some links and page numbers. However, my GM and I agreed that, the Tweet you are linking has a double meaning, depending on how you read his words. RAW you may be correct since there are no stated V/S/M component when casting from a scroll. But the act of reading the scroll is in it self, a Somatic Component as he says "Spell scrolls have a twist, though: you must read the scroll to cast its spell. This is effectively an ad hoc component.". Since you cannot activate a scroll by just holding it in your hand.
Basically, your dm is ruling against the fact that spell scrolls do not have a somatic component. While that is his right, his reasoning is a little far-fetched. It requires assuming that the direction and/or mere moving of your eyes must mean a spell is being cast. That is certainly debatable. And it doesn't require much deliberation to realize the trap he is setting himself up for (i.e. I'm moving my eyes to trick the enemy into thinking I'm using a scroll). Furthermore, such a small and highly ambiguous aspect of one's behavior should require an insight check with a suitably high dc - especially in the middle of the chaos of combat! And then we're assuming your dm would allow skill checks as part of a reaction. Also, could that skill check be contested by being very sneaky about it using the scroll? This is a deep, deep rabbit hole, people. Dm's would do well to go about it in a different way, if they want to prevent or nerf this kind of mechanic.
@@Asschen-Sukar please re-read the description of spell scrolls. "you can read the scroll and CAST IT'S SPELL without providing any material components. " and how would you "cast a spell from a scroll but OPENING THE SCROLL AND READING IT. there for you can see them casting the spell as they are physically opening and reading the obvious piece of long parchment in the middle of a fight. also in the entire description it never says anything about somatic or verbal components. plus bringing up an outside source outside the game kind of defeats the entire point of a rule book in the first place. But as always its the DM's choice.
Hey Kobold! I totally missed that there is a XGtE table SPECIFICALLY for scribing scrolls! I had made a help table based on rarity and what not, but this totally simplifies things and makes a lot of sense. I feel silly for missing that table in Xanathar's! Even D&D Beyond doesn't have it. The main difference is a few workdays shaved off and a differentiation between spell levels that would normally be the same rarity, such as 2nd and 3rd level spells. I'll have to update my content!
@@PackTactics of the 5th edition of dnd. But yeah, it added a lot of great spells and subclasses for the players (personal favorites sickening radiance and inquisitive rogue) as well as several tables for downtime activities and even help out people to make a character with the "This is your story" table. A great, beautiful book, with something for everyone.
There's also a table in Xanathar's that details the recommended general cost for scrolls (it's most commonly used in Adventurer's League, but I've seen other people use it too) and the prices are actually pretty cheap. 25 gold for a cantrip, 75 gp for 1st level, 150 gp for 2nd, 300 gp for 3rd, 500 gp for 4th, and finally 1000 gold for a 5th level scroll! It's odd because, going by these prices, it'd be cheaper to just by scrolls of 2nd level or higher, though I guess it comes at the trade off that a shop might not always have the scrolls you're looking for. But I remember that there was no limit in AL back in the day. The Ranger/ Rogue multiclass never left town without at least half a dozen scrolls of "Pass With Out A Trace", and let me tell ya, you learn how powerful that spell is very quickly when the lowest Stealth roll in the group is a 16...and that's from the heavy armor wearing paladin.
I love giving spell scrolls to my players because they are consumable. No need to worry about giving them overpowered magic items. Recently they uncovered a tidal wave scroll to fight off fire elementals!
My DM likes giving spells out as "charms." Kinda like scrolls except stored in the recipient, so you can't trade them around. On the other hand, you sometimes get multiple charges (at level 3 our sorcerer picked up 3 uses of Lightning Bolt, which was rather nice).
In a recent campaign where our party was all at 4th level, my Sorc found a 3rd level Counterspell scroll, and it completely turned the tide of a big battle. The DM had later given us a room with 3 magic items on pedestals and my Arcana check told me that taking each item would summon a guardian. He'd thought we would be smart and take them 1 at a time, so he gave us fairly strong monsters for each one. We were a little dumber than he expected and took 2 of the items at once, putting us into a very tough but still doable battle against an undead ooze and some other undead creature that had decent spell casting. With an evil chuckle of his own over what he was about to do to us, the DM announced that the undead caster was mumbling and moving its hands... then he went into shocked silence as I informed him I was using the Counterspell scroll. Yes, I understood that there was a chance it would fail because the level was higher than my current casting ability. It worked, and the DM laughed and complimented my use of that to thwart the best spell that creature had at its disposal.
That's dastardly and I love it. I've never thought about scrolls in this way, but stockpiling them to save a Warlock a few pact slots here and there is fantastic. If you can get your DM to give you a spell storing ring or a spellwrought tatto is even better.
Wizards with spell scrolls sounds great. After a while their spell books are so big, they end up with plenty of niche spells which COULD be handy, but might not be, so having them as a scroll sounds great.
I remember the crafting rules for 3.5 and spell scrolls, wizards started off with scribe scroll and I used the hell out of it with my wizard, had so many scrolls, poured most of his money in scroll scribing, even took feats to enhance his arcana and scribe scroll checks, I believe there were advanced rules to allow him to make scrolls at a higher level than he could cast, and use, which he did to make them more money, then used that to make more scrolls lol By the time he used 5 fireball spells in a row and several sonic lances the DM asked "HOW many spell slots do you have?" and I replied "I still havent used one, all scrolls!" showed him all the math and checks and he was suprised it checked out.
@@tonyb9290 Perfect! If I ever come around to play again with my Order of the Scribe Mage I'll try to take that angle as well, sounds super fun! First transcribing all the spells into the magical spell book, then crafting scrolls, fits rather nicely to that subclass.
As a Warlock main, I feel bad that I totally forgot you could make scrolls. As I'm sure some players know, there are some spells that can't be upcast, even if they're really good. Example is Hunger of Hadar, a fantastic spell if only just for flavor, but cannot be upcast, so its usefulness is limited at higher levels when you have better spells. I would also make Scrolls of Hex at lower levels when you really need that spell slot early. Misty Step, a fantastic spell in general, but after level seven you can take Ghostly Gaze and teleport through walls. Or cast some spells through walls. Ghostly gaze is good. I'm sure there are others, but I'm tired and can't think of others.
@@jsamue12 That's true, but it means that you are spending a very limited resource at an even higher level at no additional benefit. And you're doing this instead of casting a spell of the level that you can cast, which is likely even better than an upcast spell. That's why scroll are great with things that don't upcast for additional benefit; you have that higher level slot for a more appropriate spell.
This is a common misconception about spells- just because you can see a target, doesn't mean you can cast spells on them if they're behind total cover- like a wall. Even if you can see through the wall.
@@branhan215124 According to Jeremy Crawford a spell can only do what it states it can do. Misty Step states you teleport to a location you can *see* regardless if that space is behind cover or not. I.E. You can use it to teleport through a wall of Force, into a locked room through a crack in the door, through a window too small to fit through, and so on. Ghostly Gaze allows you to see through walls, ergo, you can use Misty Step to teleport through walls. (You could also use an Arcane Eye to do the same thing. As long as you're in range and can see the space, you can teleport there). Other spells would also work, such as Hunger of Hadar (A sphere grows from a space you can see) Or arguably fireball. (Same wording, however some sources state you release a small bead that then explodes). With Misty Step, you still need to be within 30 feet of the space you wish to teleport to, since the range is still self. A targeting spell, such as Witch Bolt, Firebolt, Eldritch Blast, and so on, would not work, since they rely on targeting rules. Basically anything that forces a saving throw is perfectly valid as long as you can see them. However for attack rolls, the target is still behind total cover, therefore they cannot be targeted by an attack roll by any means, unless an ability states otherwise.
Spell scrolls are awesome for the "break glass in case of emergency" situations. Especially if you have a handful of scrolls for highly situational spells but the best thing in the world for that ONE encounter. :P
Aren't Spellwrought Tattoos are just better option for some scrolls? Like for absorb element or shield, as you don't need to read the tattoo to cast the spell from it so you can use both hands. You can also probably combo tattos with Atrificer's ability to replicate common magic items (that excludes scrolls and potions), but I don't think it'll be worth it - whole infusion for one 1st level spell, while you can have bag of holding or alchemy jug instead.
Spellwrought Tattoos are great! Sadly I'm not aware of any official rules/guidelines for players making them like we see in XGtE for scrolls, but if your DM would let you apply the same or similar rules to crafting the tattoos, it's definitely worth getting your whole party inked up. Ignoring the spell list requirements for using them makes this tactic way more potent, give your whole party familiars, load up the barbarian with shields, let the ranged fighter concentrate on bless for you and tons more. I could see how a DM would think twice before allowing it.
Spellwrought tattoos have only been a part of the game for a short time. I know many tables that still don't allow them. crafting spell scrolls have been around since before Xanathars and even then some tables frown on crafting because of how it affects the game.
@@AmorphousUrsine DM's Guild's "Rashemen: Uapproachable East Campaign Guide " has a feat called Runescarring which is really ritual scarring or tattooing scrolls onto party members. Lots of potential party support (assuming your GM allows some reasonable amount down time) for the cost of a feat.
Thieves eventually are able to use magic items for other classes. THIS INCLUDES SPELL SCROLLS. An intelligent thief can be a decent scroll monkey in case of emergency
DMG page 141 "If you don't have a spellcasting ability-perhaps you're a rogue with the Use Magic Device feature-your spellcasting ability modifier is +0 for the item..."
6:19, second line. "You can read the scroll and cast its spell without providing *_material_* components." It specifies material, meaning it still uses vocal and somatic.
@@The_Forge_MasterNothing in that specific description overrides the general rule of magic items not requiring ANY components. This is not just a biased reading of RAW, this is RAI.
This speaks to me as someone who wants to get into D&D, I like the idea of being a swiss army knife support character, and a nightmare to an enemy commander.
Even at worst, you can save up Spell Slot by making Scrolls of "Situational Spells". For example, Druid can save up 3rd lv Spell Slot by making "Speak with Plant" and use the Scroll for util/role-play. Why I never thought of it?
In my old campaign (just last year) I was an artificer and with other things I could make a spell scroll in an 8th of the time and way cheaper as well. We had a 2 week down time, I was rich, I got a friend to help to speed it up even more, and I we made a load of first level scrolls especially cure wounds
This makes my Scribe wizard concept feel much more complete- though I eel like the "attach scrolls to your equipment" thing would have to be spoken with a DM about prior- I can see some debate over how large the scrolls actually have to be.
I'd also add any spell that allows the caster to escape from an encounter to the list of solid scroll options. Invisibility, dimension door, fly, such like that. All too often I find myself greedily clinging to my last spell slot (especially as a warlock) because I'll need it to stay alive if an encounter goes bad, rather than using it *in the encounter* to make sure the encounter stays in our favor. Having your escape options as scrolls ensures you'll *always* have it when you need it.
Agreed, also prevents your escape scroll from being counterspelled. DMs, same is true for bad guys. If you need a bad guy to get away, have them use a scroll rather than cast, so that they players don't counterspell it.
@@anavias As a game master I don't really agree with the "Scrolls can't be countered" thing. I know Kobold says yes, but it's ambiguous enough that it could go either way. Teleporting away doesn't have enough counterplay in D&D, and taking away the maybe one spell that will prevent it from happening is kind of a dick move. Of course, I've homebrewed Dimensional Anchor from 3.5e into 5e, so there's that.
@@kevingriffith6011 I mean, personally it feels like if you see someone pull out a scroll and start reading it in a fight, you should know what's coming next? I think counterspelling scrolls makes perfect sense.
@@sethb3090 Absolutely, that's the way I'm thinking of it. Now this also opens the door to doing things like spending your action to look at a scroll without casting from it. Deception vs Arcana to see if anyone watching can tell the difference, possibly wasting counterspells on nothing.
@@sethb3090 it's less that they know it's more that counterspell just wouldn't work against it, I look at counterspell as interuptting your magic from being made into a spell but scrolls use their own magic already made into a spell. Compare pulling an arrow back to pulling a trigger, you could interupt an archer before they got all the way done pulling the string back but someone pulling the trigger?
In theory, for spells above third level, you could use glyph of warding to make cheap spell scrolls. You determine how they are activated, and always cost a flat 200gp worth of diamonds. So just put them on a piece of parchement, then set the activation to be ripping the paper or unfurling it
@@nicholasvangestel5570 this gave me a brilliant idea - use Illusory Writing on a scroll, to make it seem like a spell scroll. Cast Glyph of Warding on it. You now have a booby trap spell scroll. Enjoy!
Great idea for base defense or if you have a portable hole. Remember though, moving an object with a glyph of warding more than 10 ft deactivates it (unless you have a nice dm)! "If the surface or object is moved more than 10 feet from where you cast this spell, the glyph is broken, and the spell ends without being triggered."
I love your videos, this channel is what I want every channel to be. Straightforward, to the point, helpful, and actually helps optimize and take advantage of game systems.
Counterspell works for anything that uses the phrasing "cast a spell" or "cast a (name of spell)", scrolls can be counterspelled. Other than that though, yeah, scrolls rock, and are worthy investments. Great analysis. I would love to see some discussions on Spellwrought Tattoos, and how ANY class can use ANY spell.
@@WilsonProductions14 Nah. Subtle Spell means you visibly do nothing and a spell happens. With a scroll you have to speak the spell so someone can pretty easily see you holding a scroll and saying a spell. Arguably casting a spell with a spell scroll is MORE OBVIOUS than some other spells that only require somatic gestures.
@@WilsonProductions14 Reread the description for spell scrolls. A spell scroll bears the words of a single spell, written in a mystical cipher. If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and cast its spell without providing any material Components. Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible. Casting the spell by reading the scroll requires the spell’s normal Casting Time. Once the spell is cast, the words on the scroll fade, and it crumbles to dust. If the casting is interrupted, the scroll is not lost. Point to the part of this where it says that it ignores somatic and verbal components of spells (it doesn't exist). You still have to use any verbal or somatic components for the spells on the scroll like you usually would. This is stated when it says "-and cast its spell without providing any material Components". If you wanted to get rid of verbal and somatic components for spell scrolls you could use subtle spell, since it applies here to the condition of "When you Cast a Spell". "When you Cast a Spell, you can spend 1 sorcery point to cast it without any somatic or verbal Components." It's also possible to visually hide a somatic component with slight of hand as a workaround, but that isn't 100% defined by RAW, only inferred, so it's up to DM interpretation if you want to try that.
@@veemie8148 You did not read your own post. "If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and cast its spell without providing any material Components." It only specifies Material Components. Nowhere does it say anything about V or S. There's an additional line that supports counterspell working; "If the casting is interrupted, the scroll is not lost." I think it's clear; casting a spell through a scroll is still counterspellable.
This was the video that really got me into your channel. This is advice I hadn't seen anywhere else. I tried it in a game and it was insanely helpful. Thank you for putting out such an informative video on the topic. Really made me reevaluate the game.
Spell scrolls can be counter-spelled. In the first paragraph alone it mentions the act of "casting" 4 times... The first line of "Counterspell" states the obvious. The scroll itself is the material component, that is why it is consumed upon uninterrupted use. If any caster/DM/PC worth their salt can't notice a spell scroll being used, then they shouldn't prepare Counterspell. PS: Jeremy Crawford has spoken on this particular matter before.
DMG Pg. 141, Activate an Item: Spells Some magic items allow the user to cast a spell from the item, often by expending charges from it. The spell is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level, doesn't expend any of the user's spell slots, ***and requires no components unless the item's description says otherwise.*** Counterspell's casting time: 1 reaction, which you take ***when you see a creature within 60 feet of you casting a spell*** PHB Pg. 202, Casting a Spell, Casting Times, Reactions: Some spells can be cast as reactions. These spells take a fraction of a second to bring about and are cast in response to some event. ***If a spell can be cast as a reaction, the spell description tells you exactly when you can do so.*** There's no indication, RAW, that a spell is being cast, and you cannot take the reaction listed in Counterspell.
@@imbetterthanyoubyfar Is a spell scroll a spellcasting item though, like a staff of power, or is it its own thing? If it's a spellcasting item then sure that makes sense, but if a scroll is just, well, a scroll then that's different
@@imbetterthanyoubyfar im not sure why you wouldnt call it casting a spell when you read a scroll. you are just casting a spell through a magic item(the scroll). like you have highlightet the scroll doenst require any material component when read, but its not stated anywhere in counterspell that the spell you want to counter needs a material component to counter it.
@@imbetterthanyoubyfar Firstly, that is referring to magic items in general, not spell scrolls. I.e. wand of fireballs/magic missile. The first word in that sentence "some" should have tipped you off... Btw, why are you implying that the guy who designed the rules for 5e is wrong about the rules? Weird. "If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and cast its spell without providing any **material** components." Do you think that a scrolls in D&D 5e can be activated by eye movements alone? Does it not make logical and thematic sense that they must at least require a verbal activation? Neither verbal or somatic components are ruled out as being unnecessary during the reading of the spell scroll. That is RAW. Therefore, if the person pulling out and reading the scroll can be seen doing so within 60ft, then it can be countered. End of story. Good day, sir.
I have a soulknife Rogue/Bard with Expertise in Arcana. Plus: I get to add a d8 on my arcana checks with my arcetype. This is a perfect fit. I didnt know you could do this. Like, this is absolutely insane. Dude. Giving my Paladin Smite? Wtf man. Thats so good.
Bro I'm so happy you taught me this. Youre awesome and your videos are awesome and I thank the algorithm for showing me a bunch of your videos all of a sudden
I had a paladin who obtained a 'spare the dying' scroll in his backstory, I had thought that would be a failsafe item, until i learned about the 'on your spell list' limitation
good point about the scroll requiring the spell's usual casting time = you can cast some of the best low-level utility spells as bonus action or as reaction
Thank you for this, Kolbold, I realized after this my Druid had Arcana proficency and thus could make scrolls and have been making them in our down time. Being a Druid was also lucky, given that Druids' known spell list is literally 'all of their spells', which let's them make a ton of spells. It also fits my character's personality, as she is a very kind character and Team Mom, so it fits her to make these scrolls to help the others.
Also, Artificer lvl 10 can make lvl 1-3 spell scrolls in 1/4 time and 1/2 cost. Having a dip in another class opens up the list of spells they can scribe too.
Don’t forget that you have to be able to prepare the spell/know it in order to make the scroll, so an Artificer multiclass still has some major limitations on what they can scribe. But, they can still do it very quickly.
I’ve been playing for about 3-4 years, and I had written off scrolls as meh things that were too much money. I can’t believe I didn’t think about freeing up a prepared spell slot and saving my spell slots entirely on my Hexadin by scribing or buying Bless scrolls. Thanks a ton!
My brother (the DM) was like this for a while, until our entire party collectively agreed that we needed more gold and time, and until we had both we would forgo the main storyline until we got it, so we made a farm and waited for enough time to sell the products off of it for money. Maybe not the nicest thing to do, as he seemed a bit frustrated by it, but it got us what we needed.
I don't use scrolls because 5E typically gives an absolute dearth of treasure; as a Wizard, all my money goes to copying spells into my spellbook, and even then I usually end up with fewer spells known than the Druid. And gods help you if a scroll is one of the six magic items ever that you're apparently supposed to get in 20 levels as a 5E character. If you have the money, scrolls are great. But typical 5E treasure doesn't really allow for it.
Does 5e give a dearth of treasure or do you have stingy DMs? I roll DMG loot hoards because I can't be assed to figure out something better when WotC refuses to and I have a level 9 party that's sitting on... 22k and they've spent a good 40-50k throughout their adventuring career. I throw dungeons at them because I use XP for leveling up so I'm not really trying to be generous I'm just doing what the book says to do.
Consumable items usually don't count towards the recommended 6 items, unless they are powerful enough to alter the course of the game, i.e. a spell scroll of a higher level than the character have access to, or will have access to in the near future.
I love the game theory aspects of your channel. If I ever have friends, I'll be able to run a really weird game. I want to make Firbolg Merchant (Kicked from his forest due to believing capitalism is morally superior to sharing as Firbolgs believe in group achievement and that boasting is distasteful). I want to roll at each town for rare, common etc items I can source supply of. I want to vomit all the magic items onto other players, BUT only get new/better stock if I have sold fellow player over a total amount of money via items they have purchased from me, by prior agreement with the DM. It should be like a scratch card for each new town. Different odds to roll on each tiers table (weighted towards what the DM wants to give).
Could you elaborate on "Spells are better than features"? It would make for very interesting design topic, and would put great perspective on choice between subclasses or even classes in case of barbarians.
Spells literally make exceptions to standard game mechanics, and are usable multiple times per day. You might be able to, once per short rest, take an extra action as a fighter, but as a sorcerer, I can cast 2 spells in a round. Add to that, (should I take two levels as a fighter) your fighter ability that gives you “an extra attack action” gives me, the spell caster, “an extra spell cast” almost as if a quickened spell were cast. Considering almost all mid to high level spells affect 2+ targets dealing damage that is comparable to a fighter, it gets crazy fast. TLDR: spells do more than class features, and can be used, or replenished after use, more abundantly
@@SeraphSilverstar except concider this, sorcery points are listed as and by definition a feature, not a spell, and therefore disproves your own argument. Also spell casting is a feature, therefore also invalidates your argument. Also, fighter can get action surge and second wind back on a short rest, and there's maybe no reason not to take a short rest after every fight. Where as a sorcerer will need a full dedicated long rest to get back spells and sorcery points. Also concider, feats also change the rules of the game. High level half orc Zealot barbarians laugh at the death mechanics of 5e in ways Death Ward could never hope to do alone, and compound to be even stronger when a grave cleric using it's subclass features is with them. A zealot barbarian and a cleric is way more impossible to kill than just two clerics. Not to mention one of grave clerics features changes or breaks the rules of how Spells like spare the dying even work. And it's the grave cleric, life clerics, and twilight domain cleric's class features that make them even more powerful and potent healers What spell can replicate the power of bear totems resistance to all but psychic damage? Or a kalashtar bear totem barbarians resistance to all damage types? Hell there are features that break the rules of spell casting. Ritual caster & signature spell are features that basically give you free spell slots for very specific spells and situations, and allow you to use those spells indefinitely. Some invocations also do this as well. The wizard having a spell book is a feature, and it's what makes wizard even worth playing. Otherwise he's just a shitty sorcerer with int as his spell casting mod and no sorcery points. The reality is, it's features that make spell casters as powerful as we all think they are.
You're asserting that using a scroll leverages the "cast a spell" part of the action economy to justify reaction spells on scrolls. What if instead it is "use an object", which is explicitly an action? Have a source for your pick?
@@pandanielxd Which is silly. If an enemy is swinging a sword at your Wizard's head, it's absurd to argue that Wizard can grab a scroll from their pack, unroll it and read it in the fraction of a second required to cast "Shield".
@@CorvusBelli01 "But that is beside the point because RAW states this" You can't convince them of the practicality behind it it's impossible for people who strictly follow RAW...
I will add that while spell scrolls are slept on by many and can be game-changing, they're also HEAVILY DM-dependent. Most campaigns I've been a player in are much more stingy on the loot and time available. It's not uncommon to reach level 6-8 before ever breaking that 250 gold mark where I'd even be able to create a single 2nd level scroll, and even then- 3 days is no joke when the quests are high stakes and you don't have much free time to work on them. It's a lot harder to justify bankrupting yourself for a scroll or two when you also need gold for supplies, gear upgrades, and emergency situations. It's also the reason I almost NEVER buy potions, but hoard them anywhere I find them. They're just far too expensive to waste, though can make an incredible impact on a difficult encounter.
Couldn't a creature getting a scroll from their backpack, opening them, and reading, be considered time for "casting"? The thing about scrolls not being vulnerable to Counterspell doesn't make a lot of sense to me
Yeah I have 0 clue wtf he's saying on this one. The description he cites in the video about spell scrolls literally says: "If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and CAST its spell without providing any material Components. Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible. CASTING the spell by reading the scroll requires the spell’s normal CASTING Time. Once the spell is CAST, the words on the scroll fade, and it crumbles to dust. If the CASTING is interrupted, the scroll is not lost." The description of Counterspell is "You attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of CASTING a Spell." it doesn't mention material components at all. So we know that the player is "Casting the spell by reading the scroll" aka "Casting a spell". His argument about no material components used seems completely irrelevant. If I play a sorcerer using an arcane focus instead of mundane material components that means all of my sorcerers spells are immune to Counterspell according to his logic.
@@veemie8148 It also only says it ignores material components. That implies that you still have to provided the material and somatic components yourself.
Not specifically pointed out in the video, but it's on dmg p141, which show general rules for casting spells by activating magic items. "The spell is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level, doesn't expend any of the user's spell slots, **and requires no components unless the item's description says otherwise.**"
@@imbetterthanyoubyfar On that page it says: "some magic items allow the user to cast a spell from the item" How does this conflict with Counterspells Condition: "You attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of casting a spell." In this case a creature is still casting a spell. It may be through an item but counterspell doesn't distinguish a difference. A spell cast through a spell scroll also requires a process which can be interrupted, it's not an instant spell effect. It's still able to be counterspelled RAW.
Artificer has a spell list that is sometime so specific and situational, scrolls are not only great to have those covered while saving known spells for smt more common, but it also reinforces the whole "make stuff" that is the artificer's core personality. And if your DM is cool, they let others use scrolls too so you can give fun stuff to your teammates, avoiding your scrolls being forgotten at the bottom of your bag.
"Oh he's reading a scroll in the middle of combat, probably not a spell!" That being said, Counterspell is a silly spell, and anything that restricts it is actually not bad.
I love spell scrolls for the really cool utility spells that are hard to justify preparing against more frequently useful other spells. Gaseous Form can be a game changer in so many situations if you have it on a scroll, but it isn't as good as say Hypnotic Pattern or Polymorph to have prepared all the time. Same thing with Transmute Rock, Control Water, Water Breathing, Illusury Terrain, Spider Climb at lower levels, Stoneshape, and heaps of others.
I feel like making scrolls is much, much stronger if created by a half caster, because Half-casters have access to some incredibly powerful lower tier spells.
I just found you a little while ago, and I gotta say: I love listening to your videos! Not only do you pack some good info... but it sounds like I'm being given the info by John Malkovich. It's awesome!
Yes. Spellscrolls (with a spell from a spell list) can be used as a reaction -only- if the scroll is already in a hand. Note that spellscrolls are different from spell scrolls, which give effects that aren't available in any spell list (and can be used by creatures without Spellcasting). Different magic item with a confusing name.
@@PureGoldNeverCorrodes Scrolls are a general category of magic items with rules on dmg 139. Spell scrolls are a specific type of scroll with their own rules on dmg 200.
On the one hand, I always loved making magic items, including scrolls. On the other hand, most of my dms don't give enough gold to do so reliably or don't give enough downtime. Makes it so when I can make that cloak of spiders for my theatrical melee wizard it feels awesome though!
Just discovered your channel a couple days ago. Ive been playing d&d for a few years now and I absolutely love the way to explain things and prove their effectiveness with math, its really changed my perspective on a lot of things, I would love to hear what you think about hexblade warlock, how you would build it, whats good to multiclass ect. Im definitely gonna start using scrolls in my games
Could it be possible to ask you to reconsider covering non-casting classes, or indeed any feature that is prevented from being optimal by one or two limitations? It's one thing to optimise in a vacuum, it's another (and far more rewarding, IMO) to optimise with the hand your life has dealt you. IRL we can't pick our "attributes" or the things we're talented at, but we try to make the most of it regardless, aka. optimise. It's very rewarding roleplay-wise to take a sub-optimal character (stat-wise and with character flaws and (lack of) talents that limit or steer their choices (such as an inability to do magic)) and play them as optimally as they can be, given their limitations. And in general, this opens the door to a tenfold increase in content, since you can frame a topic with "In case of limitations x, y and z, what is optimal?".
Spell Scrolls are amazing if you're a class that gets to prepare spells each day. If you have a few days of downtime, you can create spell scrolls for things you then don't need to have prepared. Feather Fall is a perfect example of this - it's something that every party needs but you might not want to devote one of your prepared spells to it every day on the off chance you'll need it. Utility spells work great as well. My artificer keeps a few "grenades" on her at all times which are just reflavored spell scrolls: Revivify, Feather Fall, Faerie Fire, Sanctuary, Alarm, and a few others that rarely get used, but it's nice to have the option.
I wish any creature can use a spell scroll, to me it would make spell scrolling that much more valued. It would also give martial classes magic to cast and free up the spell casters to do stuff.
Casters are always at a power advantage over martials, so why ban them from a very useful subsection of items, besides it would be useful if anyone in the party could read a revivify scroll to save someone as minutes are pretty short.
in my weekly game, anyone can use any spell scroll, but the arcana rolls to activate treat you as having 0 level slots. So unless you have decent arcana a fighter aint getting too far on them.
It would be so fun if you could use a staff of power with a martial character. That would actually be a big deal but Martials sadly don't get anything fun. Hey! Rangers can use scrolls! Thats a win!
I allow anyone to use scrolls in my games. If it's on your spell list you can cast it with no check even a level 1 wizard can cast a scroll of wish should he aquire it. If it's not on your list then you can make an Arcana, Nature, or Religion check depending on who created the scroll. Dc is 10+ spell level. On failure you get the option of destroying the scroll or I roll on the scroll mishaps table and you can preserve the magic for another attempt.
Okay the bits on Shield and Absorb Elements definitely convinced me to try to scribe when I can with my Sorcerer. Actually now that you got me looking at the crafting section I'm realizing the Weavers Tools I got on a lark might be really useful too. Cloak of Protection and Bag of Holding would be easy to make.
A small little warning: no, Scrolls aren't counter-spellable, but they can be dispelled, since they are a spell like any other. There is also another great usage for scrolls: situational spells or spells that you cast only once per day. Let's look at it this way: yes, you may not need something like Water Breathing or Aid or Spider Climb, but on a game based around exploration, you can create the scrolls to save resources. The scroll you used for Water Breathing could be used with any other great 3rd level spell, and especially for Artificer, this can be huge.
At my game, anyone can use a spell scroll. They just have to make a caster check and suffer dire consequences on a failure. So, a monk can use meteor swarm Rolling 1d20+int_bonus vs DC 19. Dire consequences are from a custom wild magic table + 1d10 Force damage/Spell level.
Just want to point out A phb ranger can "remain alert" while traveling in their favored terrain. so a ranger should be able to preform watch while working on a spell scroll while traveling in favored terrain. (assuming other conditions met)
I'm pretty sure that you can SEE someone activating a scroll, and therefore you can counterspell them. Magic items like wands/staffs etc are a bit more questionable, but most DM's i've seen shut down the "you can't counterspell me because i'm using my staff" argument.
I believe the usual argument is that counterspell is when you see a creature case the spell, but magic items casting the spell is not the same as a creature during it. And it's the creature part that is important (much like creature Vs object Vs location targeting)
Yeah it's also not really a magic item casting the spell effect on it's own. It's using the spellcasters ability to cast the spell, the scroll just holds the free spell slot and the preparation. The description of Spell scrolls says: "you (the pc) can read the scroll and cast its spell", meaning that you're casting the spell. It can still be countered by a counterspell. Counterspell: "You attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of Casting a Spell".
Just to clarify that I was more playing devils advocate than anything; as OP said most DMs shut down with the I'm using a staff arguement which is more true due to no components. But what people usually argue isn't always based directly on facts
@@PackTactics Sometimes yes other times definitely not. No spell can really compete with features like action surge, but that isn't really a good example.
@@shanderraa7751 Yeah, but is is also at its strongest when making great sword go burr. Also, most tables I find won't let you multiclass because multiclassing can be really powerful even with one or two levels.
According to JC scrolls can be counterspelled. While the components of the spells aren't used, you still need to read the scroll (yes, I understand that vocals is a component, but whether or not the reading of a scroll is considered a component, the counterspeller can still see you reading the scroll) Scrolls are very important through; great video
All of this video 🥇! Perfect recommendations and my level 1 Druid is now going to be a beast-mode blaster with the addition of scrolls. I was wondering what to do with proficiency in Arcana and now I know... 📜📜📜📜📜 Everywhere! Healing Word scrolls are gonna be clutch! lol
"Spells are better than features" - but not all spells are better than all features. Peace and Twilight clerics have features that are downright game breaking, and Paladins 6th level aura is better than most spells at what it does. Not arguing with the general point, just pointing out some outliers.
I homebrew Scrolls can be used by anyone. Arcana check to write the scroll has a INT/WIS/CHA modifier depending on the class, and is made while writing the scroll ONLY. Quick and painless and useful for everyone.
Whenever RUclips directs me to this channels videos, they stress me out as a DM. Mainly because the game isn't balanced for players who are arguing to use every long rest to get extra spells. A lot of the straightforward designs are assuming a party has it's normal magic, plus a scroll or a couple potions/magic items scattered around. It is not balanced for a group carrying a dozen+ spell scrolls in addition to everything else. While these tips are good for creative players who are trying to balance a party flaw (the revivify scroll is great if you've only got one cleric), but a lot of this "wringing every advantage and angle out of every second" approach doesn't necessarily mean your game is going to be better or more fun. The DM's goal is to challenge you. If you have 50 scrolls they will still want to challenge you which means they will have to take a whole new approach to attacking your party. Essentially, you're just giving your DM a lot more work and fine tuning on their part. Don't make 32 bless scrolls. That's annoying as hell. DM's like players thinking creatively and planning for the future (like a couple good scrolls to get out of a bad situation). We don't like designing for players who are trying to maneuver out of every challenge the game is designed to give them.
I wrote up a homebrew rogue subclass called the Wandering Merchant. Their gimmick is that (a) they can use items as a bonus action (like a Thief), get proficiency with improvised weapons, and can Sneak Attack with an improvised weapon, and (b) they can just pull items that didn't previously exist out of their pockets. The intention was that you'd be throwing vials of acid or using healing potions as a BA, but it would also work with scrolls. They also get Use Magic Device (also like a Thief), so they can even use their own scrolls. You need to expend a resource when making items, though, and you'd only have enough to make up to 2nd level scrolls. But they can also find magic item sellers (and buyers) a bit easier, too. Honestly, I think the subclass is on the weaker side, but it does look really fun to play. I want to try it out at some point.
I off handedly watched these videos just to see his opinions and now I see that it’s not just talk, all these ideas I’ll use for my game now Btw making a Kobold Warlock, so pack tactics can work with many of the powerhouse spells (not hex) and bonus action abilities like tentacle of the deep with advantage
Great advice I just now realised scribing scrolls is a thing. This is huge. Love me some Shield, Absorb Elements and Healing Word spell scrolls. Cheap and effective.
With my Artificer, I make scrolls of Darkvision, Lesser Restoration, Invisibility and Spider Climb. Mostly utility spells, but it certainly saves spell slots for more battle-centric spells.
spell scrolls are a great way to store niche utility spells that you don't normally want to carry on a day-to-day basis in your prepared spell list, but are useful nonetheless. Dispel magic, detect magic, protection from good/evil, Lesser Restoration, hold/charm person, and prayer of healing are great examples to sit alongside Revivify.
I love the magic item: [Mizzium Appartus] Pick a spell on your class list, Expend the spell slot. DC 10+ (spell lvl x2). You get to cast it on success. On a fail? You still cast a spell, but it's random off of a specific chart
I think I'm going to start focusing on scrolls. My character recently made her first scroll a scroll of find familiar. That's also something you should have mentioned is by making a scroll of fine familiar you can give your friends, whether it be party members or favorite NPCs, their very own familiar
Well, it's two months late so I hope you enjoyed the scroll, but that actually doesn't work because you cannot use a spell scroll if the spell is not on your class spell list.
One of the characters I'm creating for a new game is a Pact of the Tome Celestial Warlock who stockpiles scrolls of Cure Wounds in order to add to his ability to heal.
Keep in mind while you can use your free interaction with an object to pull out a scroll (unless it's squirreled away in a backpack somewhere), you'll need a free hand to so that. Your GM might even say you need 2 hands to open a scroll
@pack tactics I know RAW say the scroll casting time is the same as the spell, but how long does it take to pull out the scroll before reading it? Retrieving an item is normally a turn so it could only be a bonus action if it was already in your hand and unrolled.
Thinking about this and... There's a fairly solid build you can do to make spell scrolls. Artificer 10 (any works, but considering what I'm going to say next, I recommend Armorer for AC purposes, but your spell list is a major factor to consider). Then go Scribe Wizard 10. Depending on if Magic Item Adept and Master Scrivier stack (personally I think they would but it's more DM's discretion), you can make scrolls up to 3rd level at an eighth the time and a fourth the cost (and even higher leveled ones at only half and half). And this doesn't even need to be light activity (since Sage Advice's most recent RAI on the matter says elves can take a long rest in 4 hours). Also grab yourself feats that give you spells you know - Aberrant Dragonmark, Artificer Initiate, Fey Touched, Magic Initiate, Shadow Touched, and/or Telekinetic, since these give you more spells to make scrolls of. If you're already an elf, going for a dragonmark (if allowed) isn't a poor idea. Taking into account an actual workweek, spells up to 4th level are still fairly viable since their time is still halved, meaning you only suffer the penalties for a single workweek (which is the same % to change into a random spell as a 3rd level would normally). Bonus points for, if UA's allowed, going Thri-Kreen and (if scrolls count as light activity), making 2 2nd level scrolls or a 2nd level scroll and a 3rd level scroll. Also don't forget that, as a wizard, you can copy from your own scrolls, which can allow you to prepare it either as a wizard (where it takes up less space), or use it with Master Scrivier to make a free action-based spell of 1st or 2nd level (aka: use your wizard spells added per level to grab spells that Artificers can't gain access to).
I had a similar train of thought for my Eldritch Knight, with limited spellslots and spells known, scrolls felt like a no-brainer. Though my idea was to do the opposite. Use scrolls for preparation spells and keep spell slots for reaction spells. I'd rule that putting them on the shield would work in a pinch, but I am not so sure I would allow people to cast spells from scrolls as a reaction, unless held in their hand.
Considering an artificer 1/wizard x build. Would this allow the character to use a revivify scroll? Revivify is contained in the artificer spell list, but does only one level into the class allow such a boost in character versatility? I already consider the wizard a fantastic class, but when their downsides in the early-game are taken away with a artificer dip, you look at a class that can heal, tank, control and all while dealing great damage. Is casting revivify from a spellscroll is allowed for this type of build? And if it is, does that break the game?
Writing spell scrolls is a great way to retcon absent players out of a session. Especially during down time “Oh, he’s working on a spell scroll today.”
![[SFM] Risky Recital](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RzNkY1_Nk3o/mqdefault.jpg)
At 3:30 I said hours instead of days. Its days.
Counterspell doesn't work on scrolls guys. Stop posting it does. i.imgur.com/8mGdutM.png
i.imgur.com/xOLosjw.png
P 141 DMG, activating an item, spells:
"Some magic items allow the user to cast a spell from the item, often by expending charges from it. The spell is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level, doesn't expend any of the user's spell slots, and requires no components unless the item's description says otherwise."
Counterspell casting time:
1 reaction, which you take when you see a creature within 60 feet of you casting a spell
So we establish that it's not just when a spell is cast, but you need to see it being cast. This is why subtle spell metamagic counterspell is a known way to "end" a counterspell war. As for what says scroll casting is invisible?
XGtE, P85, Spellcasting, Perceiving a Caster at Work:
But what about the act of casting a spell? Is it possible for someone to perceive that a spell is being cast in their presence? To be perceptible, the casting of a spell must involve a verbal, somatic, or material component.
In conclusion:
You need to see a spell being cast to counterspell it.
A spell must have a verbal, somatic, or material component to be perceptible.
Spells cast from magic items have no verbal, somatic, or material components.
Because casting a spell from a scroll is casting from a magic item, it has no components, is not perceptible, and cannot be counterspelled.
Here is a quote from JC himself.
"Spell scrolls follow the normal rule for casting a spell from a magic item: you don't need to provide any components to cast the spell (V, S, or M)."
www.sageadvice.eu/casting-from-a-spell-scroll-it-doesnt-say-it-requires-v-s-components/
It not requiring material components does NOT mean it requires the others. It is just repeating an already known fact.
Ok. You guys can stop now. If you want to brew it differently, you can.
Here have a meme: imgur.com/a/LttfHi9
"Unless the item's description says otherwise" in this case the description for spell scrolls only mentions that material components are not neccessary. Whether that overrules general magic item usage rules outright, thus still requiring verbal and somatic components if needed is up for debate.
@@Morpseus +JC confirming it passively seems like it's atleast disputed.
This rule doesn't seem applicable. The rule on magic items is for casting spells through the magic item, as stated often by using charges. Moreover spell scrolls do not state the spell is cast through or using the scroll, it states YOU cast read the scroll AND (YOU) cast the spell. This would also be why it needs to be on your spell list to cast it, since you are casting the spell not the item, as a wand of magic missiles would. The spell has any verbal and somatic components it should normally have, just no material components. Theoretically RAW this means you need 2 hands to use a spell scroll, one to hold it to read and one to do the somatic components. Honestly I hate all of these stipulations, but this is how spell scrolls work RAW.
Even if I squint very hard reading it, I cannot see any way in which the underlined text has any relevance to the issue of counterspell.
Counterspell: "You attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of casting a spell." That's it. Nothing about how the spell is cast. It's not a 'ruin casting components' spell.
Spell Scrolls: "If the spell is on your class's spell list you can use an action to read the scroll *and cast its spell* without providing any material components." (emphasis mine)
You're "casting a spell", so you presumably can be interrupted in the process of casting it. Again, components have nothing to do with it.
"@JeremyECrawford If a spell cast from a spell scroll is counterspelled, does the scroll lose its magic as if the spell was cast?"
JC: "When successful, counterspell foils a spell that is cast. The casting isn't undone. The spell fails and is wasted."
I know shield scrolls can be used as a reaction, but it's hilarious to me to imagine a wizard pulling a spell out of their bag, reading it, and having it take effect all in the time it takes someone to fire an arrow at them.
I'd rule you'd have to keep whatever you wanted to use on your belt or something, otherwise it's an action to search your pack. I feel like there's a rule on this, but that's my take. You don't have access to whatever you want within your 200+ lbs of gear within less than 6 seconds.
@@MacroAggressor Yeah each DM is simply going to have to pick a number and leave it at that
@@MacroAggressor i'd liken prepped-scrolls to be akin to a grenade-belt. you have 5-6 on-hand at most, ideally of 2-3 types only and if you need something more specialist you have to spend the turn (or more) digging around for that particular scroll in your bags. so staple a few shield/ward spells to your belt, slip a sleep scroll under the cuff of your gloves and whatever you do don't mix up the featherfall with the disintigrate
@@MacroAggressor Glue the scrolls on your staff
Maybe they have to wear it in a phylactery on their forehead like a Jewish Orthodox priest
For wizards, I would recommend a scroll of feather fall. You don't need it often, but when you need it, *you need it*, and it frees open a slot to prepare
If you are lucky enough to have a level 13 thief rogue in the party, feed them scrolls. Feed them practically any concentration buff spell you want but can’t afford to concentrate on. As part of their Use Magic Device class feature, they can bypass class requirements and use those scrolls. Given that they are typically a non-caster class, them concentrating on a spell might even slip under the radar for some of your more savvy opponents.
People do enjoy crapping on the Thief subclass but with good teamwork like what's written here you can put that "niche and sub par" ability to excellent use.
In addition to this, if you have a spell, you are a spellcaster.
There are a few magic items in the game that have this stipulation on attunement: "requires attunement by a spellcaster."
All High Elves are spellcasters, because they get a cantrip.
Items with this stipulation:
- Wand of Binding, Fireballs, Lightning Bolts, Paralysis, Polymorph, War Mage, Web, and Wonder. (DMG)
- Illusionist's Bracers (GGR)
- Pearl of Power (DMG)
- Voyager Staff (GGR)
@@snazzyfeathers I'm second this. Rogue Thief is my main class in 5e. I feel you when it comes to people crapping on the class because it looks weak, not understanding stealth, and the amount of sell-able loot they would otherwise leave behind. No one thinks about how valuable the mundane stuff is.
Wait they only bypass class race and level requirements. Wouldn't they have to do the check for spells higher than they can normally cast using their spell casting ability, that don't have?
@@lolsuperpoop don’t think too hard on it. For the purpose of reading a wizard scroll, just treat them as a wizard of high enough level to use the scroll properly as they bypass class and level restrictions. If a 13th level wizard can normally cast a 3rd level spell, then a thief rogue can use a 3rd level scroll even if they cannot cast spells themselves.
Arcane tricksters with a decent intelligence and expertise in arcana could make those arcana checks very reliable. Especially with reliable talent. Considering new options for my next characters, even a dip for expertise would be amazing.
I pretty much always take a 1lvl dip into rogue for expertise. I like being really good at the 1 or 2 things I'm supposed to be really good at
I'm playing a full wizard and I picked up the Skill Expert feat on a whim as it let me round my INT to 18 while completing my skill proficiency to be all INT skills as well as getting expertise in Arcana. It may be partially to do the the west march nature of the game but having that Expertise has felt and worked out great for me! And now I'm hoping to get a reflavoured Mizzium Apperatus, because with my +11 Arcana (+4 INT +3×2 PROF +1 Stone of Good Luck) I have a 100% chance to successfully cast any wizard spell, regardless of if it's even in my spellbook or not, of 2nd level or lower and for 3rd level spells (that I haven't regularly prepared) it's still a 95% chance of success with the other 5% being some other random spell.
So Arcane Tricksters can reliably cast Wish if they use a scroll? Wow, that's pretty amazing
It’s a straight ability check, not an arcana check, reliable talent can only apply with a level dip into bard
Alternatively, you could dip into ranger for Canny and Favored Foe if you have the wisdom (e.i. druid or cleric). I'd say Sneak Attack is better for a dex-based gish, but you'll be able to actually use Favored Foe if you're a pure caster, or use any other stat for melee. It's not much damage ultimately, but it's better than none. Whereas, if you already have someone in the party that knows thieves' cant, there's no reason not to take the bonus languages, plus I feel bonus languages will be more flexible generally.
I like that scrolls can be used to keep a casting of important utility spells available outside of spell preparations. A few scrolls of featherfall and waterbreathing can be life savers when situations change unexpectedly.
Also I think the their rogue can use any scroll with their use magic item feature.
Yep, or wands.
Reaction spells are a little weird conceptually. You're telling me you can retrieve, unfurl, and read a scroll in time to react?
Mechanically, on a reaction you don't have the free interaction to retrieve the scroll to you hand, so these could only be effective if you were actively carrying them around.
@@MrJerks93 Yeah it gets a little iffy. Like clearly it would be possible if a gnoll charges at you for 30 feet over 6 seconds to be able to cast shield, less so if a monster right next to you just attacks. So it might be up to the DM. I always liked the idea of a spell scroll holster that holds like 2 or 3 scrolls specifically to be used at a moments notice and just let those particular scrolls work as reactions but not others.
That isnt even getting into the nature of something like casting featherfall while falling. Though technically if a spell has a material component can it really be cast without the free interct with object action under the same rules for a scroll.
Mage armor is another great one to have a few of.
@@admcleo I mean that's what you have spell focuses for, since they count for any material component that isn't priced.
To be honest, my DMs rarely make it easy to make scrolls. Otherwise I’d definitely use them more often. Scrolls are amazing tools and super fun.
Scrolls from 3rd lv or lower are relatively cheap to craft and you can hugely reduce the time spent on it by getting help from a group of npcs you have met/rescued on the campaign.
I mean... they are not easy unless you got a build to make them easier to craft
like you need to be someting that doesn't sleep to craft them on adventure or make party take a break if not on timer
Some DMs just outright refuse to allow scribing scrolls. I’ve been on a few Westmarch servers where it’s outright banned, so the OP isn’t alone when it comes to this kind of thing.
@@jb123581 This is the main reason why scrolls are not commonly seen despite how good they are, they are ultimately considered magic items and prone to a ton of dm fiat.
@@WildBandit300 As a DM myself I can definitely see why they would be considered OP. But here's my take: The table gives downtime needed to scribe scrolls, as long as the players are constantly doing something, they aren't going to be scribing scrolls often. Having a sense of urgency when needed is important for storytelling, so the players might not even want to take downtime, like my players. However, it's not my job to tell the players how to spend their downtime when they feel as if they've earned/gotten a window for downtime. If they have a day or a week of downtime, and they wanna make scrolls, go right ahead.
Edit: Just thought of this. If a DM thinks players are taking too much downtime, always keep this in mind. Players too if their DM is thinking of this.
The world is constantly moving forward. The bad guys are still plotting and scheming, and while the players are taking downtime, their enemies are closing in. Those scrolls might not come in so handy if the town they were supposed to be protecting was completely destroyed while they were making the scrolls they thought would help them. That's plot, and would teach a valuable lesson.
Of note, on spells like revivify, scrolls that require a consumed costly components also requires you expend those components in the creation of the scroll.
This means scribing them yourself does not give you a discount on anything but the usual cost of the scroll itself, and similarly that scrolls on the market would include the costly component as part of their price, in the same way that casting services do. I believe this is spelled out in the rules, I know for sure it was in 3.5. Even if it's not it's be a rare or ignorant DM that doesn't rule as such.
Even so, the contingency of having it in a form that others can use, in case it's the healer that goes down. Plus then you don't need to keep it prepared at all times.
You are correct, in the dmg it does specify when creating a scroll you still spend material components, however I rather have a bank of revivfy ready on the inside of my cloak than carry around the extra gold and need to use an action to access certain items from bag of holding. (Assuming you have a RAW dm and you don't like the idea of walking around with tons of valuable materials on display)
Yeah, I find it interesting that Kobold even mentions you pay the cost when crafting the scroll, but then points out when stating to have a Revivify scroll it doesn't require components. It did, just when you scribed it.
Now there are advantages, not walking around with a 300gp diamond and instead a piece of paper rolled up with other paper might hopefully be less of a target to theft and as mentioned by Aleander that if the healer who has Revivify memorized goes down you have other options to cast it.
@@LuckySketches the other person has to be able to cast the spell or have it on their spell list. So if you only have one healer with Revivify and they go down, then your scroll doesn't really help. It does help with negotiating when you go to town and ask a healer there to cast it for you.
But having more then one healing class in a party is important. To be fair for a Revivify scroll can be cast by a lot of people thanks to Tasha's, though some may need to make the roll for it being higher level then they can cast yet (mostly the half casters of Artificers, Paladins and Rangers) until they hit level 9.
@@freakyleaky1077 the scroll is also probably worth more than it's ingredients for its labor and expertise... so your probably making merchandise which could be sold.
I got into a discussion with my GM about this exact issue about Counterspell and Scrolls. Thanks for providing some links and page numbers. However, my GM and I agreed that, the Tweet you are linking has a double meaning, depending on how you read his words. RAW you may be correct since there are no stated V/S/M component when casting from a scroll. But the act of reading the scroll is in it self, a Somatic Component as he says "Spell scrolls have a twist, though: you must read the scroll to cast its spell. This is effectively an ad hoc component.". Since you cannot activate a scroll by just holding it in your hand.
Because it says No V/S/M I imagine that means you read it in your head, aka not out loud.
Basically, your dm is ruling against the fact that spell scrolls do not have a somatic component. While that is his right, his reasoning is a little far-fetched. It requires assuming that the direction and/or mere moving of your eyes must mean a spell is being cast. That is certainly debatable. And it doesn't require much deliberation to realize the trap he is setting himself up for (i.e. I'm moving my eyes to trick the enemy into thinking I'm using a scroll).
Furthermore, such a small and highly ambiguous aspect of one's behavior should require an insight check with a suitably high dc - especially in the middle of the chaos of combat! And then we're assuming your dm would allow skill checks as part of a reaction. Also, could that skill check be contested by being very sneaky about it using the scroll?
This is a deep, deep rabbit hole, people. Dm's would do well to go about it in a different way, if they want to prevent or nerf this kind of mechanic.
@@Asschen-Sukar please re-read the description of spell scrolls. "you can read the scroll and CAST IT'S SPELL without providing any material components. " and how would you "cast a spell from a scroll but OPENING THE SCROLL AND READING IT. there for you can see them casting the spell as they are physically opening and reading the obvious piece of long parchment in the middle of a fight. also in the entire description it never says anything about somatic or verbal components. plus bringing up an outside source outside the game kind of defeats the entire point of a rule book in the first place. But as always its the DM's choice.
Hey Kobold! I totally missed that there is a XGtE table SPECIFICALLY for scribing scrolls! I had made a help table based on rarity and what not, but this totally simplifies things and makes a lot of sense. I feel silly for missing that table in Xanathar's! Even D&D Beyond doesn't have it. The main difference is a few workdays shaved off and a differentiation between spell levels that would normally be the same rarity, such as 2nd and 3rd level spells. I'll have to update my content!
Xanathars is the best book ever.
@@PackTactics of the 5th edition of dnd. But yeah, it added a lot of great spells and subclasses for the players (personal favorites sickening radiance and inquisitive rogue) as well as several tables for downtime activities and even help out people to make a character with the "This is your story" table.
A great, beautiful book, with something for everyone.
There's also a table in Xanathar's that details the recommended general cost for scrolls (it's most commonly used in Adventurer's League, but I've seen other people use it too) and the prices are actually pretty cheap.
25 gold for a cantrip, 75 gp for 1st level, 150 gp for 2nd, 300 gp for 3rd, 500 gp for 4th, and finally 1000 gold for a 5th level scroll!
It's odd because, going by these prices, it'd be cheaper to just by scrolls of 2nd level or higher, though I guess it comes at the trade off that a shop might not always have the scrolls you're looking for. But I remember that there was no limit in AL back in the day. The Ranger/ Rogue multiclass never left town without at least half a dozen scrolls of "Pass With Out A Trace", and let me tell ya, you learn how powerful that spell is very quickly when the lowest Stealth roll in the group is a 16...and that's from the heavy armor wearing paladin.
I love giving spell scrolls to my players because they are consumable. No need to worry about giving them overpowered magic items. Recently they uncovered a tidal wave scroll to fight off fire elementals!
Unless you give it to the wizard. Then they can copy it.
...
Also, Potions are consumables too.
@@agsilverradio2225 unless the party has a wizard*
My DM likes giving spells out as "charms." Kinda like scrolls except stored in the recipient, so you can't trade them around. On the other hand, you sometimes get multiple charges (at level 3 our sorcerer picked up 3 uses of Lightning Bolt, which was rather nice).
In a recent campaign where our party was all at 4th level, my Sorc found a 3rd level Counterspell scroll, and it completely turned the tide of a big battle. The DM had later given us a room with 3 magic items on pedestals and my Arcana check told me that taking each item would summon a guardian. He'd thought we would be smart and take them 1 at a time, so he gave us fairly strong monsters for each one. We were a little dumber than he expected and took 2 of the items at once, putting us into a very tough but still doable battle against an undead ooze and some other undead creature that had decent spell casting. With an evil chuckle of his own over what he was about to do to us, the DM announced that the undead caster was mumbling and moving its hands... then he went into shocked silence as I informed him I was using the Counterspell scroll. Yes, I understood that there was a chance it would fail because the level was higher than my current casting ability. It worked, and the DM laughed and complimented my use of that to thwart the best spell that creature had at its disposal.
Stockpiling hex scrolls using aspect of the moon makes that spell fairly good for warlocks
That's dastardly and I love it. I've never thought about scrolls in this way, but stockpiling them to save a Warlock a few pact slots here and there is fantastic. If you can get your DM to give you a spell storing ring or a spellwrought tatto is even better.
Wizards with spell scrolls sounds great. After a while their spell books are so big, they end up with plenty of niche spells which COULD be handy, but might not be, so having them as a scroll sounds great.
A wizard without a feather fall scroll is a wizard that wants its party to die
I remember the crafting rules for 3.5 and spell scrolls, wizards started off with scribe scroll and I used the hell out of it with my wizard, had so many scrolls, poured most of his money in scroll scribing, even took feats to enhance his arcana and scribe scroll checks, I believe there were advanced rules to allow him to make scrolls at a higher level than he could cast, and use, which he did to make them more money, then used that to make more scrolls lol
By the time he used 5 fireball spells in a row and several sonic lances the DM asked "HOW many spell slots do you have?" and I replied "I still havent used one, all scrolls!" showed him all the math and checks and he was suprised it checked out.
@@tonyb9290 Perfect! If I ever come around to play again with my Order of the Scribe Mage I'll try to take that angle as well, sounds super fun!
First transcribing all the spells into the magical spell book, then crafting scrolls, fits rather nicely to that subclass.
As a Warlock main, I feel bad that I totally forgot you could make scrolls. As I'm sure some players know, there are some spells that can't be upcast, even if they're really good. Example is Hunger of Hadar, a fantastic spell if only just for flavor, but cannot be upcast, so its usefulness is limited at higher levels when you have better spells.
I would also make Scrolls of Hex at lower levels when you really need that spell slot early.
Misty Step, a fantastic spell in general, but after level seven you can take Ghostly Gaze and teleport through walls. Or cast some spells through walls. Ghostly gaze is good.
I'm sure there are others, but I'm tired and can't think of others.
Reminder that any spell can be upcast, even if doing so grant no benefits besides a higher DC for counterspell.
@@jsamue12 Considering Warlock can do nothing but upcast, this is reasonable advice.
@@jsamue12 That's true, but it means that you are spending a very limited resource at an even higher level at no additional benefit. And you're doing this instead of casting a spell of the level that you can cast, which is likely even better than an upcast spell. That's why scroll are great with things that don't upcast for additional benefit; you have that higher level slot for a more appropriate spell.
This is a common misconception about spells- just because you can see a target, doesn't mean you can cast spells on them if they're behind total cover- like a wall. Even if you can see through the wall.
@@branhan215124 According to Jeremy Crawford a spell can only do what it states it can do. Misty Step states you teleport to a location you can *see* regardless if that space is behind cover or not. I.E. You can use it to teleport through a wall of Force, into a locked room through a crack in the door, through a window too small to fit through, and so on. Ghostly Gaze allows you to see through walls, ergo, you can use Misty Step to teleport through walls. (You could also use an Arcane Eye to do the same thing. As long as you're in range and can see the space, you can teleport there). Other spells would also work, such as Hunger of Hadar (A sphere grows from a space you can see) Or arguably fireball. (Same wording, however some sources state you release a small bead that then explodes). With Misty Step, you still need to be within 30 feet of the space you wish to teleport to, since the range is still self.
A targeting spell, such as Witch Bolt, Firebolt, Eldritch Blast, and so on, would not work, since they rely on targeting rules. Basically anything that forces a saving throw is perfectly valid as long as you can see them. However for attack rolls, the target is still behind total cover, therefore they cannot be targeted by an attack roll by any means, unless an ability states otherwise.
Spell scrolls are awesome for the "break glass in case of emergency" situations. Especially if you have a handful of scrolls for highly situational spells but the best thing in the world for that ONE encounter. :P
Aren't Spellwrought Tattoos are just better option for some scrolls? Like for absorb element or shield, as you don't need to read the tattoo to cast the spell from it so you can use both hands.
You can also probably combo tattos with Atrificer's ability to replicate common magic items (that excludes scrolls and potions), but I don't think it'll be worth it - whole infusion for one 1st level spell, while you can have bag of holding or alchemy jug instead.
Pack Tactics made a video about Artificers and spellwrought tattoos that is worth watching.
Spellwrought Tattoos are great! Sadly I'm not aware of any official rules/guidelines for players making them like we see in XGtE for scrolls, but if your DM would let you apply the same or similar rules to crafting the tattoos, it's definitely worth getting your whole party inked up. Ignoring the spell list requirements for using them makes this tactic way more potent, give your whole party familiars, load up the barbarian with shields, let the ranged fighter concentrate on bless for you and tons more. I could see how a DM would think twice before allowing it.
@@snazzyfeathers I've missed that video. Thank you.
Spellwrought tattoos have only been a part of the game for a short time. I know many tables that still don't allow them. crafting spell scrolls have been around since before Xanathars and even then some tables frown on crafting because of how it affects the game.
@@AmorphousUrsine DM's Guild's "Rashemen: Uapproachable East Campaign Guide " has a feat called Runescarring which is really ritual scarring or tattooing scrolls onto party members. Lots of potential party support (assuming your GM allows some reasonable amount down time) for the cost of a feat.
Thieves eventually are able to use magic items for other classes. THIS INCLUDES SPELL SCROLLS. An intelligent thief can be a decent scroll monkey in case of emergency
DMG page 141 "If you don't have a spellcasting ability-perhaps you're a rogue with the Use Magic Device feature-your spellcasting ability modifier is +0 for the item..."
@@MacroAggressor Then it's great. Spell scrolls use their own attack bonus and Spell Save DC based on level of the spell.
6:30 Wouldn’t reading the scroll be noticeable enough to warrant counterspell if your DM is already prone to counterspell?
Nope. As mentioned in other comments, it is not counterspellable.
While reading a scroll might take an action it is quicker than casting a spell. You are activating the magic not casting it.
It says no component's, so I imagine you read it... in your head not out loud.
6:19, second line. "You can read the scroll and cast its spell without providing *_material_* components." It specifies material, meaning it still uses vocal and somatic.
@@The_Forge_MasterNothing in that specific description overrides the general rule of magic items not requiring ANY components. This is not just a biased reading of RAW, this is RAI.
This speaks to me as someone who wants to get into D&D, I like the idea of being a swiss army knife support character, and a nightmare to an enemy commander.
Even at worst, you can save up Spell Slot by making Scrolls of "Situational Spells".
For example, Druid can save up 3rd lv Spell Slot by making "Speak with Plant" and use the Scroll for util/role-play.
Why I never thought of it?
Speak with plants is actually a good spell. I covered it in my Gloomstalker part 2 video.
Or feather fall. Ive only made one wizard who doesnt carry one around religiously. That being because that wizard had 6 wisdom
In my old campaign (just last year) I was an artificer and with other things I could make a spell scroll in an 8th of the time and way cheaper as well. We had a 2 week down time, I was rich, I got a friend to help to speed it up even more, and I we made a load of first level scrolls especially cure wounds
This makes my Scribe wizard concept feel much more complete- though I eel like the "attach scrolls to your equipment" thing would have to be spoken with a DM about prior- I can see some debate over how large the scrolls actually have to be.
I'd also add any spell that allows the caster to escape from an encounter to the list of solid scroll options. Invisibility, dimension door, fly, such like that. All too often I find myself greedily clinging to my last spell slot (especially as a warlock) because I'll need it to stay alive if an encounter goes bad, rather than using it *in the encounter* to make sure the encounter stays in our favor. Having your escape options as scrolls ensures you'll *always* have it when you need it.
Agreed, also prevents your escape scroll from being counterspelled.
DMs, same is true for bad guys. If you need a bad guy to get away, have them use a scroll rather than cast, so that they players don't counterspell it.
@@anavias As a game master I don't really agree with the "Scrolls can't be countered" thing. I know Kobold says yes, but it's ambiguous enough that it could go either way. Teleporting away doesn't have enough counterplay in D&D, and taking away the maybe one spell that will prevent it from happening is kind of a dick move.
Of course, I've homebrewed Dimensional Anchor from 3.5e into 5e, so there's that.
@@kevingriffith6011 I mean, personally it feels like if you see someone pull out a scroll and start reading it in a fight, you should know what's coming next? I think counterspelling scrolls makes perfect sense.
@@sethb3090 Absolutely, that's the way I'm thinking of it. Now this also opens the door to doing things like spending your action to look at a scroll without casting from it. Deception vs Arcana to see if anyone watching can tell the difference, possibly wasting counterspells on nothing.
@@sethb3090 it's less that they know it's more that counterspell just wouldn't work against it, I look at counterspell as interuptting your magic from being made into a spell but scrolls use their own magic already made into a spell. Compare pulling an arrow back to pulling a trigger, you could interupt an archer before they got all the way done pulling the string back but someone pulling the trigger?
In theory, for spells above third level, you could use glyph of warding to make cheap spell scrolls. You determine how they are activated, and always cost a flat 200gp worth of diamonds.
So just put them on a piece of parchement, then set the activation to be ripping the paper or unfurling it
Legend, that is so clever. But wouldn’t it be activated prematurely? Since it says it can’t move like 20ft from where you cast it?
@@nicholasvangestel5570 this gave me a brilliant idea - use Illusory Writing on a scroll, to make it seem like a spell scroll. Cast Glyph of Warding on it. You now have a booby trap spell scroll. Enjoy!
Great idea for base defense or if you have a portable hole. Remember though, moving an object with a glyph of warding more than 10 ft deactivates it (unless you have a nice dm)!
"If the surface or object is moved more than 10 feet from where you cast this spell, the glyph is broken, and the spell ends without being triggered."
I love your videos, this channel is what I want every channel to be. Straightforward, to the point, helpful, and actually helps optimize and take advantage of game systems.
You have just gave me so many creative ideas to further shock my dm
Counterspell works for anything that uses the phrasing "cast a spell" or "cast a (name of spell)", scrolls can be counterspelled. Other than that though, yeah, scrolls rock, and are worthy investments. Great analysis.
I would love to see some discussions on Spellwrought Tattoos, and how ANY class can use ANY spell.
So you can counterspell a subtle spell cast? No. Same deal with Scrolls.
@@WilsonProductions14 Nah. Subtle Spell means you visibly do nothing and a spell happens. With a scroll you have to speak the spell so someone can pretty easily see you holding a scroll and saying a spell. Arguably casting a spell with a spell scroll is MORE OBVIOUS than some other spells that only require somatic gestures.
@@WilsonProductions14 Reread the description for spell scrolls.
A spell scroll bears the words of a single spell, written in a mystical cipher. If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and cast its spell without providing any material Components. Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible. Casting the spell by reading the scroll requires the spell’s normal Casting Time. Once the spell is cast, the words on the scroll fade, and it crumbles to dust. If the casting is interrupted, the scroll is not lost.
Point to the part of this where it says that it ignores somatic and verbal components of spells (it doesn't exist). You still have to use any verbal or somatic components for the spells on the scroll like you usually would. This is stated when it says "-and cast its spell without providing any material Components".
If you wanted to get rid of verbal and somatic components for spell scrolls you could use subtle spell, since it applies here to the condition of "When you Cast a Spell".
"When you Cast a Spell, you can spend 1 sorcery point to cast it without any somatic or verbal Components."
It's also possible to visually hide a somatic component with slight of hand as a workaround, but that isn't 100% defined by RAW, only inferred, so it's up to DM interpretation if you want to try that.
@@veemie8148 You did not read your own post.
"If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and cast its spell without providing any material Components."
It only specifies Material Components. Nowhere does it say anything about V or S.
There's an additional line that supports counterspell working; "If the casting is interrupted, the scroll is not lost."
I think it's clear; casting a spell through a scroll is still counterspellable.
@@calebbroeker8412 bruh... I was agreeing with that conclusion
This was the video that really got me into your channel. This is advice I hadn't seen anywhere else. I tried it in a game and it was insanely helpful. Thank you for putting out such an informative video on the topic. Really made me reevaluate the game.
Spell scrolls can be counter-spelled. In the first paragraph alone it mentions the act of "casting" 4 times...
The first line of "Counterspell" states the obvious. The scroll itself is the material component, that is why it is consumed upon uninterrupted use.
If any caster/DM/PC worth their salt can't notice a spell scroll being used, then they shouldn't prepare Counterspell.
PS: Jeremy Crawford has spoken on this particular matter before.
DMG Pg. 141, Activate an Item:
Spells
Some magic items allow the user to cast a spell from the item, often by expending charges from it. The spell is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level, doesn't expend any of the user's spell slots, ***and requires no components unless the item's description says otherwise.***
Counterspell's casting time:
1 reaction, which you take ***when you see a creature within 60 feet of you casting a spell***
PHB Pg. 202, Casting a Spell, Casting Times, Reactions:
Some spells can be cast as reactions. These spells take a fraction of a second to bring about and are cast in response to some event. ***If a spell can be cast as a reaction, the spell description tells you exactly when you can do so.***
There's no indication, RAW, that a spell is being cast, and you cannot take the reaction listed in Counterspell.
@@imbetterthanyoubyfar Is a spell scroll a spellcasting item though, like a staff of power, or is it its own thing? If it's a spellcasting item then sure that makes sense, but if a scroll is just, well, a scroll then that's different
@@imbetterthanyoubyfar It's confirmed by Jeremy Crawford that you can counterspell a spell scroll.
@@imbetterthanyoubyfar im not sure why you wouldnt call it casting a spell when you read a scroll. you are just casting a spell through a magic item(the scroll). like you have highlightet the scroll doenst require any material component when read, but its not stated anywhere in counterspell that the spell you want to counter needs a material component to counter it.
@@imbetterthanyoubyfar
Firstly, that is referring to magic items in general, not spell scrolls. I.e. wand of fireballs/magic missile.
The first word in that sentence "some" should have tipped you off...
Btw, why are you implying that the guy who designed the rules for 5e is wrong about the rules? Weird.
"If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and cast its spell without providing any **material** components."
Do you think that a scrolls in D&D 5e can be activated by eye movements alone?
Does it not make logical and thematic sense that they must at least require a verbal activation?
Neither verbal or somatic components are ruled out as being unnecessary during the reading of the spell scroll. That is RAW.
Therefore, if the person pulling out and reading the scroll can be seen doing so within 60ft, then it can be countered.
End of story.
Good day, sir.
I have a soulknife Rogue/Bard with Expertise in Arcana. Plus: I get to add a d8 on my arcana checks with my arcetype. This is a perfect fit. I didnt know you could do this. Like, this is absolutely insane. Dude.
Giving my Paladin Smite? Wtf man. Thats so good.
About time Scrolls are talked about. I have like 20 odd spell Scrolls on my wizard currently, idk how they aren't used more often in games.
Bro I'm so happy you taught me this. Youre awesome and your videos are awesome and I thank the algorithm for showing me a bunch of your videos all of a sudden
I had a paladin who obtained a 'spare the dying' scroll in his backstory, I had thought that would be a failsafe item, until i learned about the 'on your spell list' limitation
Spare the Dying is dog ass anyway, just get a healer’s kit.
good point about the scroll requiring the spell's usual casting time = you can cast some of the best low-level utility spells as bonus action or as reaction
As a DM I wouldn't allow a reaction spell scroll unless you specifically tell me how you have it attached to the back of your shield or something.
Thank you for this, Kolbold, I realized after this my Druid had Arcana proficency and thus could make scrolls and have been making them in our down time.
Being a Druid was also lucky, given that Druids' known spell list is literally 'all of their spells', which let's them make a ton of spells.
It also fits my character's personality, as she is a very kind character and Team Mom, so it fits her to make these scrolls to help the others.
Also, Artificer lvl 10 can make lvl 1-3 spell scrolls in 1/4 time and 1/2 cost. Having a dip in another class opens up the list of spells they can scribe too.
Don’t forget that you have to be able to prepare the spell/know it in order to make the scroll, so an Artificer multiclass still has some major limitations on what they can scribe. But, they can still do it very quickly.
I’ve been playing for about 3-4 years, and I had written off scrolls as meh things that were too much money. I can’t believe I didn’t think about freeing up a prepared spell slot and saving my spell slots entirely on my Hexadin by scribing or buying Bless scrolls. Thanks a ton!
All my DMs are coin and time misers so this isn't something that was ever a strong option.
Agreed on both accounts here. My DM is a miser for magic weapons as well. Well, at least, stingy with magic weapons my rogue can use.
My brother (the DM) was like this for a while, until our entire party collectively agreed that we needed more gold and time, and until we had both we would forgo the main storyline until we got it, so we made a farm and waited for enough time to sell the products off of it for money. Maybe not the nicest thing to do, as he seemed a bit frustrated by it, but it got us what we needed.
Spell scrolls have completely changed the playstyle for my RogueLock. Great video
I don't use scrolls because 5E typically gives an absolute dearth of treasure; as a Wizard, all my money goes to copying spells into my spellbook, and even then I usually end up with fewer spells known than the Druid. And gods help you if a scroll is one of the six magic items ever that you're apparently supposed to get in 20 levels as a 5E character.
If you have the money, scrolls are great. But typical 5E treasure doesn't really allow for it.
Does 5e give a dearth of treasure or do you have stingy DMs? I roll DMG loot hoards because I can't be assed to figure out something better when WotC refuses to and I have a level 9 party that's sitting on... 22k and they've spent a good 40-50k throughout their adventuring career. I throw dungeons at them because I use XP for leveling up so I'm not really trying to be generous I'm just doing what the book says to do.
Consumable items usually don't count towards the recommended 6 items, unless they are powerful enough to alter the course of the game, i.e. a spell scroll of a higher level than the character have access to, or will have access to in the near future.
This video has completely changed my perspective on casting. Thanks!!! :)
I love the game theory aspects of your channel. If I ever have friends, I'll be able to run a really weird game.
I want to make Firbolg Merchant (Kicked from his forest due to believing capitalism is morally superior to sharing as Firbolgs believe in group achievement and that boasting is distasteful).
I want to roll at each town for rare, common etc items I can source supply of.
I want to vomit all the magic items onto other players,
BUT only get new/better stock if I have sold fellow player over a total amount of money via items they have purchased from me, by prior agreement with the DM.
It should be like a scratch card for each new town. Different odds to roll on each tiers table (weighted towards what the DM wants to give).
Brought up making shield spells for the hexblade in our group at the last session. Loved the idea of putting it on the back of his shield.
Could you elaborate on "Spells are better than features"? It would make for very interesting design topic, and would put great perspective on choice between subclasses or even classes in case of barbarians.
Spells literally make exceptions to standard game mechanics, and are usable multiple times per day. You might be able to, once per short rest, take an extra action as a fighter, but as a sorcerer, I can cast 2 spells in a round. Add to that, (should I take two levels as a fighter) your fighter ability that gives you “an extra attack action” gives me, the spell caster, “an extra spell cast” almost as if a quickened spell were cast. Considering almost all mid to high level spells affect 2+ targets dealing damage that is comparable to a fighter, it gets crazy fast.
TLDR: spells do more than class features, and can be used, or replenished after use, more abundantly
@@SeraphSilverstar except concider this, sorcery points are listed as and by definition a feature, not a spell, and therefore disproves your own argument. Also spell casting is a feature, therefore also invalidates your argument.
Also, fighter can get action surge and second wind back on a short rest, and there's maybe no reason not to take a short rest after every fight. Where as a sorcerer will need a full dedicated long rest to get back spells and sorcery points.
Also concider, feats also change the rules of the game. High level half orc Zealot barbarians laugh at the death mechanics of 5e in ways Death Ward could never hope to do alone, and compound to be even stronger when a grave cleric using it's subclass features is with them. A zealot barbarian and a cleric is way more impossible to kill than just two clerics. Not to mention one of grave clerics features changes or breaks the rules of how Spells like spare the dying even work. And it's the grave cleric, life clerics, and twilight domain cleric's class features that make them even more powerful and potent healers
What spell can replicate the power of bear totems resistance to all but psychic damage? Or a kalashtar bear totem barbarians resistance to all damage types?
Hell there are features that break the rules of spell casting.
Ritual caster & signature spell are features that basically give you free spell slots for very specific spells and situations, and allow you to use those spells indefinitely. Some invocations also do this as well.
The wizard having a spell book is a feature, and it's what makes wizard even worth playing. Otherwise he's just a shitty sorcerer with int as his spell casting mod and no sorcery points.
The reality is, it's features that make spell casters as powerful as we all think they are.
I've watched this video like 5 times now. This is an excellent resource.
You're asserting that using a scroll leverages the "cast a spell" part of the action economy to justify reaction spells on scrolls. What if instead it is "use an object", which is explicitly an action? Have a source for your pick?
"Casting the spell by reading the scroll requires the spell’s normal casting time". This is right in the item description
@@pandanielxd Which is silly. If an enemy is swinging a sword at your Wizard's head, it's absurd to argue that Wizard can grab a scroll from their pack, unroll it and read it in the fraction of a second required to cast "Shield".
@@CorvusBelli01 "But that is beside the point because RAW states this" You can't convince them of the practicality behind it it's impossible for people who strictly follow RAW...
Huzzah,, scrolled through list to find the best spells to use. Thank you kindly sir.
I will add that while spell scrolls are slept on by many and can be game-changing, they're also HEAVILY DM-dependent. Most campaigns I've been a player in are much more stingy on the loot and time available. It's not uncommon to reach level 6-8 before ever breaking that 250 gold mark where I'd even be able to create a single 2nd level scroll, and even then- 3 days is no joke when the quests are high stakes and you don't have much free time to work on them.
It's a lot harder to justify bankrupting yourself for a scroll or two when you also need gold for supplies, gear upgrades, and emergency situations. It's also the reason I almost NEVER buy potions, but hoard them anywhere I find them. They're just far too expensive to waste, though can make an incredible impact on a difficult encounter.
Wrath of the Righteous really got me to value scroll scribing, loved your video!
Couldn't a creature getting a scroll from their backpack, opening them, and reading, be considered time for "casting"? The thing about scrolls not being vulnerable to Counterspell doesn't make a lot of sense to me
Yeah I have 0 clue wtf he's saying on this one. The description he cites in the video about spell scrolls literally says: "If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and CAST its spell without providing any material Components. Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible. CASTING the spell by reading the scroll requires the spell’s normal CASTING Time. Once the spell is CAST, the words on the scroll fade, and it crumbles to dust. If the CASTING is interrupted, the scroll is not lost."
The description of Counterspell is "You attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of CASTING a Spell." it doesn't mention material components at all.
So we know that the player is "Casting the spell by reading the scroll" aka "Casting a spell".
His argument about no material components used seems completely irrelevant. If I play a sorcerer using an arcane focus instead of mundane material components that means all of my sorcerers spells are immune to Counterspell according to his logic.
@@veemie8148 It also only says it ignores material components. That implies that you still have to provided the material and somatic components yourself.
Not specifically pointed out in the video, but it's on dmg p141, which show general rules for casting spells by activating magic items. "The spell is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level, doesn't expend any of the user's spell slots, **and requires no components unless the item's description says otherwise.**"
@@imbetterthanyoubyfar I still don't see why that translates into couterspell not being an option though
@@imbetterthanyoubyfar On that page it says:
"some magic items allow the user to cast a spell from the item"
How does this conflict with Counterspells Condition:
"You attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of casting a spell."
In this case a creature is still casting a spell. It may be through an item but counterspell doesn't distinguish a difference.
A spell cast through a spell scroll also requires a process which can be interrupted, it's not an instant spell effect.
It's still able to be counterspelled RAW.
Artificer has a spell list that is sometime so specific and situational, scrolls are not only great to have those covered while saving known spells for smt more common, but it also reinforces the whole "make stuff" that is the artificer's core personality. And if your DM is cool, they let others use scrolls too so you can give fun stuff to your teammates, avoiding your scrolls being forgotten at the bottom of your bag.
"Oh he's reading a scroll in the middle of combat, probably not a spell!"
That being said, Counterspell is a silly spell, and anything that restricts it is actually not bad.
I love spell scrolls for the really cool utility spells that are hard to justify preparing against more frequently useful other spells. Gaseous Form can be a game changer in so many situations if you have it on a scroll, but it isn't as good as say Hypnotic Pattern or Polymorph to have prepared all the time. Same thing with Transmute Rock, Control Water, Water Breathing, Illusury Terrain, Spider Climb at lower levels, Stoneshape, and heaps of others.
I feel like making scrolls is much, much stronger if created by a half caster, because Half-casters have access to some incredibly powerful lower tier spells.
I just stumbled on your channel and I really enjoy the combination of statistics and goofy animation.
Joke's on you my character doesn't know how to read.
I just found you a little while ago, and I gotta say: I love listening to your videos! Not only do you pack some good info... but it sounds like I'm being given the info by John Malkovich. It's awesome!
I would think you’d need to have scrolls to hand to cast them; eliminating reaction spells from the useful list.
Yes. Spellscrolls (with a spell from a spell list) can be used as a reaction -only- if the scroll is already in a hand.
Note that spellscrolls are different from spell scrolls, which give effects that aren't available in any spell list (and can be used by creatures without Spellcasting). Different magic item with a confusing name.
@@kirbs0001 wait which one is which?
@@PureGoldNeverCorrodes Scrolls are a general category of magic items with rules on dmg 139. Spell scrolls are a specific type of scroll with their own rules on dmg 200.
On the one hand, I always loved making magic items, including scrolls. On the other hand, most of my dms don't give enough gold to do so reliably or don't give enough downtime. Makes it so when I can make that cloak of spiders for my theatrical melee wizard it feels awesome though!
if I can counterspell a misty step (BA, V only), I can counterspell someone unclipping a scroll from the belt, slowly unfurling it, and using it
So much this.
Just discovered your channel a couple days ago. Ive been playing d&d for a few years now and I absolutely love the way to explain things and prove their effectiveness with math, its really changed my perspective on a lot of things, I would love to hear what you think about hexblade warlock, how you would build it, whats good to multiclass ect. Im definitely gonna start using scrolls in my games
Could it be possible to ask you to reconsider covering non-casting classes, or indeed any feature that is prevented from being optimal by one or two limitations?
It's one thing to optimise in a vacuum, it's another (and far more rewarding, IMO) to optimise with the hand your life has dealt you. IRL we can't pick our "attributes" or the things we're talented at, but we try to make the most of it regardless, aka. optimise. It's very rewarding roleplay-wise to take a sub-optimal character (stat-wise and with character flaws and (lack of) talents that limit or steer their choices (such as an inability to do magic)) and play them as optimally as they can be, given their limitations.
And in general, this opens the door to a tenfold increase in content, since you can frame a topic with "In case of limitations x, y and z, what is optimal?".
Spell Scrolls are amazing if you're a class that gets to prepare spells each day. If you have a few days of downtime, you can create spell scrolls for things you then don't need to have prepared. Feather Fall is a perfect example of this - it's something that every party needs but you might not want to devote one of your prepared spells to it every day on the off chance you'll need it. Utility spells work great as well.
My artificer keeps a few "grenades" on her at all times which are just reflavored spell scrolls: Revivify, Feather Fall, Faerie Fire, Sanctuary, Alarm, and a few others that rarely get used, but it's nice to have the option.
I wish any creature can use a spell scroll, to me it would make spell scrolling that much more valued. It would also give martial classes magic to cast and free up the spell casters to do stuff.
Casters are always at a power advantage over martials, so why ban them from a very useful subsection of items, besides it would be useful if anyone in the party could read a revivify scroll to save someone as minutes are pretty short.
in my weekly game, anyone can use any spell scroll, but the arcana rolls to activate treat you as having 0 level slots. So unless you have decent arcana a fighter aint getting too far on them.
It would be so fun if you could use a staff of power with a martial character. That would actually be a big deal but Martials sadly don't get anything fun. Hey! Rangers can use scrolls! Thats a win!
@@PackTactics Hopefully the upcoming 5.5e book changes this ruling, but if not homebrew is still good.
I allow anyone to use scrolls in my games. If it's on your spell list you can cast it with no check even a level 1 wizard can cast a scroll of wish should he aquire it. If it's not on your list then you can make an Arcana, Nature, or Religion check depending on who created the scroll. Dc is 10+ spell level. On failure you get the option of destroying the scroll or I roll on the scroll mishaps table and you can preserve the magic for another attempt.
Okay the bits on Shield and Absorb Elements definitely convinced me to try to scribe when I can with my Sorcerer. Actually now that you got me looking at the crafting section I'm realizing the Weavers Tools I got on a lark might be really useful too. Cloak of Protection and Bag of Holding would be easy to make.
A small little warning: no, Scrolls aren't counter-spellable, but they can be dispelled, since they are a spell like any other.
There is also another great usage for scrolls: situational spells or spells that you cast only once per day. Let's look at it this way: yes, you may not need something like Water Breathing or Aid or Spider Climb, but on a game based around exploration, you can create the scrolls to save resources. The scroll you used for Water Breathing could be used with any other great 3rd level spell, and especially for Artificer, this can be huge.
At my game, anyone can use a spell scroll. They just have to make a caster check and suffer dire consequences on a failure. So, a monk can use meteor swarm Rolling 1d20+int_bonus vs DC 19.
Dire consequences are from a custom wild magic table + 1d10 Force damage/Spell level.
Spells scrolls have no components? What about the big damn roll of paper
i.imgur.com/8mGdutM.png
Just want to point out A phb ranger can "remain alert" while traveling in their favored terrain. so a ranger should be able to preform watch while working on a spell scroll while traveling in favored terrain. (assuming other conditions met)
I'm pretty sure that you can SEE someone activating a scroll, and therefore you can counterspell them. Magic items like wands/staffs etc are a bit more questionable, but most DM's i've seen shut down the "you can't counterspell me because i'm using my staff" argument.
I believe the usual argument is that counterspell is when you see a creature case the spell, but magic items casting the spell is not the same as a creature during it. And it's the creature part that is important (much like creature Vs object Vs location targeting)
Yeah it's also not really a magic item casting the spell effect on it's own. It's using the spellcasters ability to cast the spell, the scroll just holds the free spell slot and the preparation. The description of Spell scrolls says: "you (the pc) can read the scroll and cast its spell", meaning that you're casting the spell. It can still be countered by a counterspell. Counterspell: "You attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of Casting a Spell".
i.imgur.com/8mGdutM.png
Just to clarify that I was more playing devils advocate than anything; as OP said most DMs shut down with the I'm using a staff arguement which is more true due to no components.
But what people usually argue isn't always based directly on facts
After this video, I train all my spellcasters in Arcana now. Great video!
To be honest having a spell list is like having a second list of features.
I say every single spell is pretty much a feature and usually they're better then features.
@@PackTactics Sometimes yes other times definitely not. No spell can really compete with features like action surge, but that isn't really a good example.
@@NobodyDungeons illusory reality is the strongest feature in the game. If you get it you win.
@@NobodyDungeons But action surge is at its strongest when used to cast another spell, so it kind of evens out
@@shanderraa7751 Yeah, but is is also at its strongest when making great sword go burr. Also, most tables I find won't let you multiclass because multiclassing can be really powerful even with one or two levels.
According to JC scrolls can be counterspelled. While the components of the spells aren't used, you still need to read the scroll (yes, I understand that vocals is a component, but whether or not the reading of a scroll is considered a component, the counterspeller can still see you reading the scroll)
Scrolls are very important through; great video
All of this video 🥇! Perfect recommendations and my level 1 Druid is now going to be a beast-mode blaster with the addition of scrolls. I was wondering what to do with proficiency in Arcana and now I know... 📜📜📜📜📜 Everywhere! Healing Word scrolls are gonna be clutch! lol
Healing word and good berry scrolls!
@@PackTactics Indeed! I have Good Berry readied for that upcast at the end of the day but having more ready will be a great use of down time.
Thanks for that! Very useful!
"Spells are better than features" - but not all spells are better than all features. Peace and Twilight clerics have features that are downright game breaking, and Paladins 6th level aura is better than most spells at what it does.
Not arguing with the general point, just pointing out some outliers.
I homebrew Scrolls can be used by anyone.
Arcana check to write the scroll has a INT/WIS/CHA modifier depending on the class, and is made while writing the scroll ONLY.
Quick and painless and useful for everyone.
Whenever RUclips directs me to this channels videos, they stress me out as a DM. Mainly because the game isn't balanced for players who are arguing to use every long rest to get extra spells. A lot of the straightforward designs are assuming a party has it's normal magic, plus a scroll or a couple potions/magic items scattered around. It is not balanced for a group carrying a dozen+ spell scrolls in addition to everything else. While these tips are good for creative players who are trying to balance a party flaw (the revivify scroll is great if you've only got one cleric), but a lot of this "wringing every advantage and angle out of every second" approach doesn't necessarily mean your game is going to be better or more fun. The DM's goal is to challenge you. If you have 50 scrolls they will still want to challenge you which means they will have to take a whole new approach to attacking your party. Essentially, you're just giving your DM a lot more work and fine tuning on their part. Don't make 32 bless scrolls. That's annoying as hell. DM's like players thinking creatively and planning for the future (like a couple good scrolls to get out of a bad situation). We don't like designing for players who are trying to maneuver out of every challenge the game is designed to give them.
I wrote up a homebrew rogue subclass called the Wandering Merchant. Their gimmick is that (a) they can use items as a bonus action (like a Thief), get proficiency with improvised weapons, and can Sneak Attack with an improvised weapon, and (b) they can just pull items that didn't previously exist out of their pockets. The intention was that you'd be throwing vials of acid or using healing potions as a BA, but it would also work with scrolls. They also get Use Magic Device (also like a Thief), so they can even use their own scrolls. You need to expend a resource when making items, though, and you'd only have enough to make up to 2nd level scrolls. But they can also find magic item sellers (and buyers) a bit easier, too.
Honestly, I think the subclass is on the weaker side, but it does look really fun to play. I want to try it out at some point.
I will take your advice and scroll the comment section
I off handedly watched these videos just to see his opinions and now I see that it’s not just talk, all these ideas I’ll use for my game now
Btw making a Kobold Warlock, so pack tactics can work with many of the powerhouse spells (not hex) and bonus action abilities like tentacle of the deep with advantage
I don't like the more detailed cool/buff Kobold. Cutesy Kobold is preferable.
Great advice I just now realised scribing scrolls is a thing. This is huge. Love me some Shield, Absorb Elements and Healing Word spell scrolls. Cheap and effective.
With my Artificer, I make scrolls of Darkvision, Lesser Restoration, Invisibility and Spider Climb. Mostly utility spells, but it certainly saves spell slots for more battle-centric spells.
This video is also great for GMs who don't know what to put into their loot tables when awarding treasure to the party.
spell scrolls are a great way to store niche utility spells that you don't normally want to carry on a day-to-day basis in your prepared spell list, but are useful nonetheless. Dispel magic, detect magic, protection from good/evil, Lesser Restoration, hold/charm person, and prayer of healing are great examples to sit alongside Revivify.
I'm more of a pathfinder 2e guy, but I enjoy your content. Keep it up my guy. Kobold supremacy!
Excellent advice! A rogue trickster could really use this to the party's advantage. I love having revivify tucked away just in case.
I love the magic item:
[Mizzium Appartus]
Pick a spell on your class list, Expend the spell slot.
DC 10+ (spell lvl x2).
You get to cast it on success.
On a fail? You still cast a spell, but it's random off of a specific chart
I think I'm going to start focusing on scrolls. My character recently made her first scroll a scroll of find familiar. That's also something you should have mentioned is by making a scroll of fine familiar you can give your friends, whether it be party members or favorite NPCs, their very own familiar
Well, it's two months late so I hope you enjoyed the scroll, but that actually doesn't work because you cannot use a spell scroll if the spell is not on your class spell list.
@@ryonalionthunder Someone pointed this out. I did figure out a ring of spell storing can let you do it tho.
One of the characters I'm creating for a new game is a Pact of the Tome Celestial Warlock who stockpiles scrolls of Cure Wounds in order to add to his ability to heal.
Keep in mind while you can use your free interaction with an object to pull out a scroll (unless it's squirreled away in a backpack somewhere), you'll need a free hand to so that. Your GM might even say you need 2 hands to open a scroll
@pack tactics I know RAW say the scroll casting time is the same as the spell, but how long does it take to pull out the scroll before reading it? Retrieving an item is normally a turn so it could only be a bonus action if it was already in your hand and unrolled.
Me in most D&D campaigns: Here is where I would note my Spell Scrolls. IF I HAD ANY DOWNTIME TO MAKE THEM!
Thinking about this and... There's a fairly solid build you can do to make spell scrolls. Artificer 10 (any works, but considering what I'm going to say next, I recommend Armorer for AC purposes, but your spell list is a major factor to consider). Then go Scribe Wizard 10. Depending on if Magic Item Adept and Master Scrivier stack (personally I think they would but it's more DM's discretion), you can make scrolls up to 3rd level at an eighth the time and a fourth the cost (and even higher leveled ones at only half and half). And this doesn't even need to be light activity (since Sage Advice's most recent RAI on the matter says elves can take a long rest in 4 hours). Also grab yourself feats that give you spells you know - Aberrant Dragonmark, Artificer Initiate, Fey Touched, Magic Initiate, Shadow Touched, and/or Telekinetic, since these give you more spells to make scrolls of. If you're already an elf, going for a dragonmark (if allowed) isn't a poor idea.
Taking into account an actual workweek, spells up to 4th level are still fairly viable since their time is still halved, meaning you only suffer the penalties for a single workweek (which is the same % to change into a random spell as a 3rd level would normally).
Bonus points for, if UA's allowed, going Thri-Kreen and (if scrolls count as light activity), making 2 2nd level scrolls or a 2nd level scroll and a 3rd level scroll.
Also don't forget that, as a wizard, you can copy from your own scrolls, which can allow you to prepare it either as a wizard (where it takes up less space), or use it with Master Scrivier to make a free action-based spell of 1st or 2nd level (aka: use your wizard spells added per level to grab spells that Artificers can't gain access to).
I had a similar train of thought for my Eldritch Knight, with limited spellslots and spells known, scrolls felt like a no-brainer.
Though my idea was to do the opposite. Use scrolls for preparation spells and keep spell slots for reaction spells. I'd rule that putting them on the shield would work in a pinch, but I am not so sure I would allow people to cast spells from scrolls as a reaction, unless held in their hand.
Considering an artificer 1/wizard x build. Would this allow the character to use a revivify scroll?
Revivify is contained in the artificer spell list, but does only one level into the class allow such a boost in character versatility?
I already consider the wizard a fantastic class, but when their downsides in the early-game are taken away with a artificer dip, you look at a class that can heal, tank, control and all while dealing great damage.
Is casting revivify from a spellscroll is allowed for this type of build? And if it is, does that break the game?
Writing spell scrolls is a great way to retcon absent players out of a session. Especially during down time “Oh, he’s working on a spell scroll today.”
Great video mate