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This is the most amazing video you have ever done Kobold. You have done what most people believe impossible. You have proven that surviving a melee encounter in 5E is possible.
If moving 30ft forward and dodging is not optimal, and dashing forward isn’t optimal, then what is optimal when you are 60-70 feet away from a plethora of archers?
That is certainly innovative. Just watch out for the reduction of movement speed since if you don’t cover all the ground the first time, especially if they move back, you’ll have a lot less mobility the second time
@@justanormalaccountnothingt1571 yeah, it really just depends on the space you need to cover. Pieces of cover, distance, a lot of factors. Id Definitely try to eye a rock or tree to get behind instead, or maybe one to get to on a second turn of running if they are way out there.
@@justanormalaccountnothingt1571 I wouldn't say a lot less. You have more than moving forward and dodging. Half movement to stand up, move other half, dash, drop prone for free. That's 1.5x movement as opposed to 1x movement.
@@tawumpas not OP, but yeah, that's why. If they're dedicated ranged, it's fine. If they're ranged until you get close, a target presenting themselves for advantage is appealing.
Kobold: "Why would else would you watch optimization videos?" Me who's a DM: I just want to challenge my players' abilities by knowing what they do effectively.
Fun thing about shoving people prone! It can be a very fun way to tackle flying enemies without hover! If your caster friends are nice enough to cast fly on you as well you can shove your flying opponents to the ground as flying creatures when knocked prone fall. Great video as always Kobold!
Oh shoot that's good to know, my Strength based grappler swarmlord has pretty good jump and a fly speed. It would be sick to jump up and take a flyer out of the sky
@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 It depends... Opportunity Attack related Feats can combo well. Warcaster Sentinel Mage Slayer Polarm Master (or swap this out for a Spell related Feat) Shield Master (or swap with Crossbow Expertise) Fighter Initiate for Thrown Weapon Fighting Style Dual Wielder All on top of a Unarmed Fighting Style Eberon Warforged Eldritch Knight.
3:00 dodging is also good instead of disengage, sure disengage removes op attacks entirely but dodge is almost as good, drains reactions, and protects you during the rest of the round.
ngl I've taken to "meta game" baiting reactions from enemies like that. particularly against spell casters if I can bait a reaction then we have a turn where they can't counter spell
@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 tbh spell casters shouldn't be using their reactions to do a MELEE ATTACK instead of saving it for something actually useful if they're smart but valid strat
@@dhyanpatel142DM might’ve given them something similar to war caster or some spellcasting enemies primarily since monsters of the multiverse have supernatural melee attacks that are half-decent I think.
Good solution for a Strength-based martial character who is facing a foe that's Doorway Dodging... just shove them back, or grapple them and pull them out of the doorway. Dodge doesn't give them advantage on Dexterity based Ability Checks, only Saving Throws. If you are a raging barbarian, chances are you'll easily grab that enemy and drag them out of the doorway, or even shove them forward with your movement if you DM allows that. Likewise, look out for this if a DM attempts it against you. Probably unlikely, but it could happen. Edit: This also works fine on any character, so long as you take proficiency/expertise as needed in Athletics. A rogue can be just as good at grappling as a raging barbarian, if they build for it.
@@williammeek4078 sadly it doesn't. Dodge gives you advantage on dex saves and gives opponents disadvantage on attack rolls. When a grapple is made (or a shove), it's not an attack, it's a contested check of the grappler's athletics vs the target's athletics or acrobatics. Those are ability checks, not attack rolls so dodging doesn't help
@@Magic-nx2fb Grapples and Shoves are specifically referred to as "special attacks," made using a dice roll during the Attack action. I would rule that you get disadvantage on your roll to grapple (or straight if you're a Raging Barbarian) but the target doesn't get any specific benefit to its own roll from Dodging because it's not mentioned in the Dodge action. Now, what my players always get sad about is that Shove/Grapple needs to be taken with the Attack action; you can't AoO someone by trying to grab them with a free hand to drop their movement to 0, Sentinel-style, because that's using a reaction.
@@BeaglzRok1 and that's fine if you rule it that way, but there's a difference between a special attack and an attack roll. Dodge mentions attack rolls, not just any attack, so as written, there's no benefits in dodging that avoids grapples
Pedantic correction, but in 1:33 you cannot use “extra attack” in a reaction. “Multiattack” is an action exclusively to NPC creatures such as bears, bandit captains, etc.
@@lastwymsi i believe NPC holding an action to attack does apply the multi attack rule if it meets the specific requirements (i.e. a bandit captain can't multi attack with throwing daggers if the multi attack applies only to making melee attacks with a scimitar and dagger)
also, unless you have one specific FS or you already has a javelin at hand you can't use extra attack with the javelin either, but assuring that you will attack and not expending your reaction is worth the underwhelming javelin attack
I have to argue that the shove attack is actually really viable for combat when knocking them prone It only takes one attack action and gives you advantage on the rest of your attack actions. It's even better if you have the shield master feat. Not only that but it gives your enemy disadvantage on attack rolls and makes them less able to run away. You can knock an enemy prone attack , and run away to give your allie spellcasters the chance to use AOE dmg spells like fireball . Sword and board with shield master is an amazing combo
(Edit: The shove before the attack isn't actually legal, my bad.) This works surprisingly well with rogues. Shield master's bonus action shove can be used first, as long as you commit to the attack action on that turn, which gives you advantage on the attack and lets you sneak attack. Also expertise in athletics makes the shove much more reliable. I'm planning to use a build like this, with my first level in fighter for heavy armour and shield proficency, so I don't have to rely on dex for armour class. It probably doesn't scale well, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
@@jaywalmoose9623 The "Shove can be used first" is unfortunately more reliant on how much the table hangs on the word of Sage Advice as they've ruled it must be used at the conclusion of the attack action instead of any point after declaration.
@@sunname6252 I might be wrong tbh, I'm no expert. My source is a recent video from DnD Shorts about feats, that showed a tweet apparently from a creator of 5e saying you could use the shove first. It's about a minute and a half into the video. If different people have said different things, it's probably up to the DM.
@@jaywalmoose9623 Yeah I saw that video and when I looked it up there was a later correction by the same twitter that no the Shove Bonus Action is after the Attack. Both of those tweets are a few years old too.
Tabaxi are amazing at giving movement options in situations like these. If you're 35ft away, you can get in range for a polearm attack, then get out of enemy move + melee range again with no dash action required. My favourite tabaxi combo is ranger and zephyr strike. Zephyr stops opportunity attacks, so you can sprint into the enemy backline, hit their caster with a boosted melee attack, and gain another 30ft movement speed to make your escape. Definitely not optimal, but it's fun as hell.
Surprised you didn’t mention shoving prone and grappling. The enemy is prone with 0 movement until they break grapple, at least for goons or when you have expertise. It’s dodge and advantage for you and the team
This also hard-counters enemies who are dodging. The dodge action doesn't work if your speed is reduced to 0, therefore if you grapple an enemy who is dodging they lose the effect. (So, if you have extra attack and make your first attack a grapple, you could make an attack with your second attempt a straight roll without disadvantage, or push prone to give your team advantage vs the target who only until your turn was granting disadvantage to them.
Shove + Grapple is my BM Fighter's bread and butter. Shove with Shield Master's bonus action, attack with my weapon and then sheathe my weapon and grapple so that other melee buds can smack it down. On my next turn, if the enemy is still alive, I end the grab and smack it twice with my unsheathed weapon twice. Skill Expert expertise on Athletics makes this even spicier.
this rule makes loads of sense until I realize I can also attack with a two handed weapon. I conceptualize it as a judo sweep, and the threat of nut stomps and face stabs to keep them from standing
@@StonegazeSteam that combo actually doesnt work :x Shield master shove is a bonus action you can only take AFTER making an attack "If you take the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to try to shove a creature within 5 feet of you with your shield."
Yes, preach the truth about Javelins! If your DM is especially cheap you can even use Darts since they're ranged weapons with the Finesse property, so you can use DEX or STR as you choose. If only 5e had a Thrown Weapon-based Sharpshooter (SS's first bullet point only works on attack rolls with ranged weapons, which melee weapons with the Thrown property are not) to ignore disadvantage outside of that measly 30ft range, or double both ranges, would be amazingly viable for STR martials. Even spears with 20/60 range would be a decent ranged option at 40/120, let alone javelins if they were bumped up to 60/240. Really the Martials have two jobs: protect the people with fewer hit points, use the terrain effectively. Everything else is roleplay. Jumping in front of the Bugbears harassing your mages, and getting KO'd and killed, if they can Revivify you or otherwise avoid a TPK it was worth it. If there's a lava pool nearby, or a bottomless pit, or hell even a Cloud of Daggers spell, don't wait for your DM to send their bruiser in to Shove your entire party into 10d10 damage at the start of your turn. Do it first for way more damage, if not an instant-kill! When compared to one or two hits from a 1d8+2+STR longsword, the risk is the same (missing the attack) but the reward is way better (extra damage/removing an enemy from the fight entirely) If a melee character finds a situation where they can effectively have an upcasted Inflict Wounds and not have to spend a spell slot for it, take it, and it'll flex your creative muscles. Casters, see if you can't Shatter someone off a cliff by doing damage to the ground under him, dropping him off the side Avatar Kyoshi-style.
@@rafaelcastor2089 I'm pretty sure it only applies to ranged weapons, but 5e IS notorious in my group for it's weirdly lawyer-esque wordings, where it's not clear what part of a term is supposed to be "grouped together." Like how "a dead creature" is considered a specific object target for Resurrection spells. So here it depends on if it's "ranged weapon" "attack rolls" or "ranged" "weapon attack rolls." I'm pretty sure it's the former, as IIRC there's no instance of "weapon attack roll" that isn't specified as either "melee/ranged weapon attack" or "attack with a melee/ranged weapon." If it WERE "ranged attack," which does apply to thrown weapons, it would be easier to leave out the "weapon" part, or take the Branding/Banishing Smite route with "weapon attack," or if you're particularly strict "ranged attack with a weapon" so it doesn't bleed into ranged spell attacks that it wouldn't apply to anyway. TL;DR The Thrown property lets weapons make a "ranged attack," not a "ranged weapon attack." You don't make a "melee weapon attack" if you're smacking someone with a crossbow because it's not a melee weapon; it's a "melee attack with an improvised/ranged weapon."
I'm a little late to the party, but darts are listed as ranged weapons and therefore work with ss. Colby over at d4 made a cool build called The Needler
Doorway dodging is broken based on the exact topography of the room you're in and the one the defender(-s) are in (divination spells are very helpful for identifying the room structure behind). Usually, you should take cover from ranged attacker on the other side of the door and use forced movement to pull the doorway dodger inside so they can be isolated and you can get in. Otherwise, the doorway dodger is now wide open to the focus attacked. Command is perhaps the most reliable and economic way to move a doorway dodger out of position. Knowing the map may also reveal ways how you can circumvent the chokepoint, especially if you have particularly useful movement abilities.
There's also simply the option of falling back to a more favorable location. If the enemy wants to doorway dodge, and you aren't trapped inside the room you're in... just retreat a bit. They can't hurt you if you fall back and break line of sight.
A dodger might have to deal with being grappled, since dodge states ‘ You lose this benefit if you are incapacitated or if your speed drops to 0’ and that happens with a grapple. Also two doorway dodgers facing off is possible in which case you can grapple the other guy one turn then dodge from then on for instance
One thing that isnt mentioned here is a pretty niche tactic i like to use myself. The easiest way to optimize the effect you have as a melee, is to drop dead so your spell casters start panicking and whip out their spells instead of going to bed with 7 Spell slots left over.
Another super underrated tactic: Grappling your enemy. This has a bunch of advantages. The grappled target has a movement of zero, you can drag them around at half speed, and you now occupy the same square. That last feature is especially useful since it means that your grappled target can no longer hit you with AoE effects without hitting themselves as well. Cool GMs may even let you interrupt somatic or even verbal spellcasting
I recently introduced a small set of house rules on my table to make positioning more important. Essentially, flanking from the sides becomes important and backstabbing becomes deadly, but you can stop opponents from just walking around you. It is quite intuitive but forces people to position with care
@@a_wild_Kirillian You can use your reaction to either a) stop the movement of a creature up to one size larger than you that is moving around you (i.e. from one field in your reach to another field in your reach) or b) turn around to face in any direction to avoid being backstabbed. To compensate the greater need for reactions, every class who gets the extra attack feature at level 5 also gains an additional reaction at level 3.
@@a_wild_Kirillian And yes, I require my players to face in a specific direction. Attacks from the sides or back get bonus +1d6 to hit and attacks from the back deal an additional weapon die of damage. Daggers used to backstab crit on a die result of 15+.
I love the fact that prone halves movement speed essentially. I made a rogue bar Ian that could zone enemies by action shoving then bonus action dashing or disengaging. Better yet. Shove one enemy grapple another and dash to make good distance. Then the enemies are very confused
another thing I don't see a lot of people mention is that if you a martial class and you see a mage? GRAB THEM FIRST and be sure to specify the arms. Quite a few spells require a somatic component, aka they have to a make a gesture with their hands, while it's up to the DM the mage will probably have to make a strength save or check to force the somatic component out. Another thing is Mages will rarely break out of your grapple and will usually have to burn a spell slot to get away from you which is burning up their spells slots. Sure it's a 2nd level... until they run out, will they burn a 3rd or 4th level just to get away from you? Of course, if the DM allows it, you can always grapple their mouth shut...
@@nacholord2328 not actually! what do you mean by that?! using 8:10 as an example if one character stands dodge in front of the door only one sucessful shove is need to open a 5ft space to the rest of the enemies enter from aside or just one sucessful knock prone to attack normal after... Still, the dodge the doorway it is a good tactic and depends how the DM will handle it if he will just waste disadvantage attacks or use the shove to knock prone and neutralize the dodge disadvantage or open space with a push
Just joined a new campaign with a full party of casters and and half-casters. I'm playing a barbarian/rogue because of that, so this couldn't have come out at a better time. Thank you mister kobold.
Telekinetic Feat (Bonus Action) is a Shove (away or toward you, only) in a 30 ft visible range up to 5ft of forced movement. The target does need to roll or they can ignore the roll. It's great to move other Players away without triggering enemy Opportunity Attacks. I usually take this Feat as my 1st.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 If your DM allows it, Telekinetic is FANTASTIC for any class that doesn't usually have something to do with their Bonus Action. Also quite useful for some out-of-combat stuff with the invisible Mage Hand.
@@Technodreamer I use Telekinetic to air dash around areas by 5ft + movement speed... (The rules only mention my position in reference to my position when targeting myself, since "You are a Creature", if you want to get technical as to why I can Air Dash.) It's probably the worst version of Flying. For my Eldritch Knight. I already have Mage Hand, so the added Invisibility and +30 ft on top of the original 30ft travel distance is an upgrade.
Hee hee hee, this is an interesting vid as my plans are usually "run in and hit a bunch". I'mma melee focused player, I LOVE playing the Melee DPS and Tank, but these are some good tactics. I'm currently playing a Tortle Barbarian Artificer with an AC of 22 thanks to DM Ruling of Natrual AC adding Constitution, and some Magical tinkering giving me a modified "Bracers of Defense". My main thing is that my party consists of a lot of ranged focused squishies. Me and a Paladin are the only Melee people out of 7 characters. Our job is to hold the line, keeping them backed up and away from the squishies. I've done that with my Maul and Sentinal, able to crush foes relatively quickly in a single round, and when htey try to retreat to get away from me, I knock their legs out. Javelins have been a life saver for me when I'm not reaching my foe or they're out of reach. Spells have helped too but I'm very limited since I just started going into Artificer. Once I get to Artillerist, it'll make range foes MUCH easier
You speak of dms doorwaydodging, actually this points me to one of the most important dm tools to handle optimized players: intelligent opposition. The oposition, atleast its leadership and midleadership shoukd be intelligent, crafty and competent. They should learn from what the players are doing. Make it part of the story: make some enemy run away or have bystanders that can observe, have the pcs come across correspondance between levels of leadership in the opposition describing the pcs ractics and how effective they are, then later on hear rumors or evidence of new troops being obtained by the enemy to coubter this. E.G: the players use cheesegrating (spikegrowth+forced movement) after the 3rd encounter they do this, have the pcs come across a letter where a luitennant complains about these dangerous adventurers and their deadly tactics, then next session hear rumors of how the bbeg has hired the araacockra legion (flying enemies counter cheesegrating)
I actually have been trying to build an echo knight dragon-themed tiefling for a few days now, and while I'm still struggling for a backstory, I started making the character in order to spice up melee combat with my favorite subclass. Dodging in perticular is one thing I wanted to do more so I added a bit of a cautious dirty fighting personality to her. Combined with her starting weapons being a longbow, halberd, and a pair of fists and I think she'll be pretty fun when I get to play her.
Remember you can hold actions. If your DM allows it, you could bonus action move your echo and then hold your action to swap places with it if someone attacks you. It would work like a discount misty step.
I like to ready an action in times when I suspect combat will happen. Makes total sense when deep in enemy territory. In a game where the side that takes the most turns in action economy usually wins, being able to attack or react before combat starts can make a difference
There actually is a highly effective way to use shove that I never see ANYONE try. You can’t get up from the prone position if you have less than half your movement remaining. So if you’re grappled while you’re prone, you cannot get back up until you break the grapple. Which means you have disadvantage on pretty much everything, including the athletics check to break the grapple, while everything but ranged attacks has advantage against you while you’re unable to do pretty much anything about it. Pretty much every martial class in the game has extra attack and both a grapple and a shove only takes up ONE of these attacks. So you can potentially grapple and enemy and then shove them prone in ONE TURN. Costing you only one round of attacks (assuming you’re not a fighter with 3-4 attacks) and your off hand while imposing incredibly significant disadvantages on your opponent.
While grappling someone prone is a good strategy, you are making it seem stronger than it is. The disadvantage is just on your attack rolls, and attack rolls from within 5ft of you have advantage. No, you do not get disadvantage on the athletics check to break free, literally where does it say that. You don't even have disadvantage on dexterity saves. It's good for pinning down individual people, and it won me some duels, but most of the time you won't see much use of it, especially since those moves don't work on especially big targets.
@@g-magewizard7007 Sorry, I misspoke. RAR, it doesn’t give your opponent disadvantage but until it was clarified in later books, it would give you advantage on the check since grappling is technically an attack.
@@christianemerson4622 except that when grappled your movement is reduced to 0, which means that until you break the grapple you don’t have the half movement needed to get up.
@@HorizonStronghold Your movement is NOT 0 last I checked; grapples don't restrict movement. Statuses like being pinned, swallowed, encumbered, or anything of the like (I can't remember them all) reduce movement to 0.
Counter to doorway dodging: Attempt to shove the creature who's blocking the door prone. It will still be "doging" but since its a skill contest it won't have advantage. If you knock it prone you'll have advantage to beat it on the ground, negating the dodge and you can also step over it. In short: shove the creature who is doorway dodging. Always shove something that is dodging.
Knock prone and grapple. You cannot dodge if your speed is zero, ergo if you grapple them you cancel their dodge by dropping their speed to zero. This also means they cannot use half movement to stand up from prone because they have no movement to halve... so you turned a doorway dodger into a pincushion for your team.
Doorway dodging is not that huge an issue when the DM does it because fe monsters are proficient in Athletics or Acrobatics, plus a few spells/abilities require saving throws as opposed to skill contests (like the awesome Telekinetic feat). Same reason why a caster can doorway dodge as long as they're proficient in Acrobatics.
@@imaplaygames633 There's a section in the DMG that lists additional combat actions. The Overrun and Tumble rules are fairly popular, creatures can try to get past other creatures by succeeding at a Athletics/Acrobatics contest, contest is chosen by the one who uses the action. The creature can also attempt this with a bonus action.
@@imaplaygames633 The biggest danger of doorway dodging might be that an enemy can grapple you and pull you closer to its allies, freeing the doorway while separating you from the party and causing you to be surrounded by enemies on all sides. However, since few monsters are proficient in Athletics, even a wizard with proficiency in Dexterity can be a doorway dodger. For the same reason, if the DM attempt to doorway dodge, a PC with proficiency in Athletics is very likely to be able to put a stop to it quickly. And if that PC is a caster, they may have Telekinetic, thorn whip, or other effects that can move an enemy without having to use their own Strength or skill proficiencies.
Doorway dodging in general is super easy to beat if the attacking party has more than 1 int tbh. Even many wild beasts would back off after a round instinctively
@@Nasgatemk2 That's a win for the party too though: doorway dodging is effective only if the party has ranged options. If their enemies back off, the party can still pick them off; if they can't, the party can just avoid combat and leave.
This is really entertaining to watch after some time in Baldur's Gate 3, knowing a lot of people probably discovered how useful flexibility and versatility on a martial really is. Even though there are a lot of enemies with range.
Guess it should be noted that you're not technically allowed to draw more than one weapon per turn since there's only one Free action, so the Extra Attack javelin opener requires you to start with one in your hand already.
I personally think that is an entirely unreasonable restriction on a not great ranged weapon. If your javelins are in a bundle there is no reason you can't use one hand to pull two javelins out. That would be like arguing you can only draw one arrow or crossbow bolt per round.
Shoving prone can be optimal if combined with a feature that sets a creature's speed to zero but doesn't give them disadvantage on their attack rolls, such as being grappled or because it can give them disadvantage on outgoing attacks. Or advantage on attacks against them for multiple turns
@@AvengerAtIlipa Chapter 9 section 2 of the PHB- movement and positioning- reads: "You can drop prone without using any of your speed. Standing up takes more effort; doing so costs an amount of movement equal to half your speed. For example, if your speed is 30 feet, you must spend 15 feet of movement to stand up. You can’t stand up if you don’t have enough movement left or if your speed is 0." Apendix A of the PHB- conditions- for grapple reads "A grappled creature's speed becomes 0, and it can't benefit from any bonus to its speed." Thus: a grappled creature can not stand up
One thing worth mentioning is that spellcasters basically don't have opertunity attacks and have far weaker prepared actions due to needing concentration and gambling spell slots in order to ready a spell, making cover and doors extremely useful if you're a martial going up against a caster.
Nice video! When the DM doorway dodges, just grapple the creature and drag them out of the door. No longer blocked! Don't do this in a tunnel though if you have a caster. Let them line attack with a spell.
Dig the video but I was surprised there wasn't more discussion of grapple, since we are talking specifically about strategizing for STR-based melee characters. It is not always an efficient move but it is one of the few ways that a martial (who probably would prefer to tank anyway) can lockdown or control the aggro of a creature.
Funny thing is I can use these tactics with theater of the mind- just by using math! Ranges can be specific when needed. Compare your actions out of combat and when you’ve got an enemy with comparable maneuverability to what you trained for, you don’t even have to do the math. You did it already!
in the situation of ranged enemies at around 2:20 just drop prone after attacking. if anyone wants to get in melee they need to dash anyway so spending movement to get up isnt all that bad
My only fear of not just running to the enemies in melee as a player that loves tanking is that the enemies may just ignore you or spread their numbers out rather than focus on you, which they would if the rest of your party is much further away from you A lot of tank builds suffer from enemies just ignoring you and building distance with your team while threatening opportunity attacks is a great way to encourage them attacking you instead
@@xuklysc it very much does Tanking vs one enemy is literally just about having sentinel or similar effects that basically forces them to target just you Grappling can work too in that regard Sticking to mages and ranged attackers to enforce disadvantage on attack rolls while having sentinel or war caster to present a strong opportunity attack also works well Tanking isn't about being tanky, it's about forcing or heavily incentivize your enemies to attack you Usually control tools do that best Or spells like Bane + effects that force disadvantage like an armorer artificer's guantlet make it so hard for enemies to hit anyone else You can also provide cover one way or another Or if you're a battlemaster fighter you can disarm/push There are so many tactics you can employ to "tank" in 5e in its purest definition of getting damage away from your allies
@@prosamis "Tanking isn't about being tanky, it's about forcing or heavily incentivize your enemies to attack you" which, aside from fighting vs only one enemy (which is, at the very least, uncommon) heavily undersuported by the system. Only the Armorer can inflict that to more than one enemy per turn
@@xuklysc ever tried playing a web character whose main purpose is to keep pushing enemies into the web and constantly force groups of units to make saves or be restrained? Spells do wonders to help tank Bane is great too Obscuring vision helps Literally making cover for allies and making it so tedious for enemies to hit allies Being in the front lines counterspell spamming the mage Upcast hold person Upcast suggestion Anti life shell Wall of sand Wall of force Black tentacles A lot of these available as early as spell level 1, 2, and 3
@@prosamis As for the web character, no I haven't. That said, that is crowd control, you are not directing damage to yourself instead of the allies, you are avoiding the enemy from having good actions, and I reckon that isn't a melee character, in fact only the suggestion of offering cover is a tank and something doable by a melee character
about making target prone its also good idea to do that if enemy is trying to stay up... if enemy creature is ending its turn standing up that means he wants to be up and not prone(Or dm is not thinking :D ) he gets disadvantage at attacking too so if you push him prone and then grapple him on ground you can disable a heavy damage dealing enemy as a tank for long time while party is clearing other threats. Creature attacking with disadvantage miss more than hit and this gives you security. Also if rogue switch to dagger from bow he can one shot the target easly with an easy crit (around %9 chance) or just double tap with reaction attack from a haste or commanding strike from you if you are a battlemaster. yes ranged dps is better but thats because flying enemies are a thing and if you fail to kill the enemy its dangerious, prone target dies almost allways if dps switches to melee for that. Better so if you are crossbow expert you don't even need to swap weapons you can just shoot point blank with any ranged weapon including cantrips as wizard yes that works you don't get disadvantage. Combining this with sharpshooter you can one shot prone targets easly from point blank range if barbarian shoved them. ALLWAYS SHOVE THE BIG DRAGON THAT IS FLYING! Prone will make them fall to ground! After that its a bloodbath. I am sure for a tank build grappling and shoving is very important! You are not expected to deal dmg so helping others deal more damage or forcing enemies to deal less dmg or even better making them attack you to be free is amazing!
Shoving flying creatures prone is generally a good idea but it only works on creatures uo to one size larger than you so it can be hard to pull off on dragons without additional feats, class options or spells.
@@kroth5810 potion of growth is a common enough potion that many dms allow you to purchase, enlarge or reduce can be used by casters too ... Yes I admit my favorite character is a runeknight I am guilty 🤣
Cool, I was actually thinking of how I could use Shove prone as part of a melee build using Path of Beast barb and monk dip. With 5 levels of barb for Extra attack, 1 of monk for BA attack, and one of fighter for Unarmed fighting style. First round, rage, then use an attack as a shove to knock prone at advantage on your Athletics check, then Beast claw attack with Extra attack, which allows for another Claw attack as part of that action. So 2 attacks at advantage without having to use Reckless, and help your melee friends. Then, on succeeding turns, as the Beast Claws "count as" simple melee weapons, they work as monk weapons (which do not require said weapons to be held or wielded, only "used"), so you get to do a BA unarmed strike (slashing if you went with a race that has natural weapons that do slashing like tortle or tabaxi) for another 1d8+STR+rage damage along with 3 Claw attacks/2 Claw attacks and Unarmed strike. Either 4 attacks or a shove plus 3 attacks once rage is going.
@@christianemerson4622 You don't get the Unarmed Fighting Style with a monk. They get Martial Arts, which is a lower damage die than the fighting style until I think monk level 12.
@@micahswerens2472 Monks still get an Unarmed Strike on their bonus action thanks to martial arts, which can turn into two attacks thanks to Flurry of blows. Anyone else just gets the one, only only a couple others get to use it as a bonus action. Also, the damage die increases from a d4 to a d6 either at level 6 or before then, then goes to a d8, then to a d10. Anyone else with an Unarmed Strike can ONLY use a d4.
@@christianemerson4622 I already said I took a monk level for BA unarmed strike. Could take more levels to get ki and flurry of blows, but probably not worth it. Monks get Unarmed STRIKE, not Unarmed FIGHTING STYLE, the latter of which gives an immediate d8 damage die for unarmed attacks. And tortles can do d4+STR mod, or with monsters of multiverse tortles and a few others do d6+str unarmed strikes, so no, it is not true that anyone else with unarmed strike can only use a d4.
Lol I had a DM try and doorway Dodge as well as abuse cover, nothing like a non Dex saving throw spell to ruin that. My favorite was where he had archers shooting from an arrow slit. Casting shatter there worked wonderfully.
you tackle doorway dodging by using "shape stone" and create a larger door on (possibly a flanking) wall or you just find a way to break the wall and create more space for the enemy to care about, or ,even better, you throw your barbarian in the midst of the fight charging and jumping on the doorway dodger while raging and having a caster support him with advantage.
Extra Attack doesn't work with javelins either, unless the character has either the Dual Wielder feat, starts combat holding at least one javelin, or has Thrown Weapon Fighting style. If they have neither the feat nor the fighting style, they can throw two javelins on their first turn (provided they started combat with one already in hand), and then just one javelin on each subsequent turn, as they only have one free object interaction each turn.
Edit: I came on way too hard for no reason here, My bad. While technically true by raw, I would argue that there is no reasonable difference between grabbing multiple arrows from a quiver and drawing multiple javelins from a bundle (Javelins aren't full-sized spears, you can easily wrap your hand around multiple in a single pull). Especially in a game where you can fire and reload a crossbow six times in six seconds with no free hand.
@@kevingriffith6011 Most ranged weapons have the ammunition property, which states that "drawing the ammunition from a quiver, case, or other container is part of the attack". Thrown weapons do not have such a property, and must be drawn like any other weapon in the game.
@@norandomnumbers Yeah, sorry. My "Defend javelin" instinct popped up and I went on attack mode. I acknowledged RAW in the edit. Best option then would be to wait until you can get an incredibly expensive magic item or can wait for your artificer to spare you an infusion for a returning javelin.
i wanna see more martials tying rope to their throwable weapons and keeping hold of the other side. this makes some easy difficult terraign that can recharge by picking it up. plus you could use it as a teather to pull enemies closer. also dont forget casting enlarged/reduce on ally martials to make them bigger and because of weapon size rules that increases their damage.
@@Schmeethe88 i honestly would even debate if it is homebrew unless making a tripwire trap is homebrew. i think this is steeped into the imagination clause where if a rule doesn't exist then basic logic takes precedent. i just used language similar to the books since it is just logical for it to happen even with just RAW readings.
Funny thing is starter Aragorn build is actually a good starter build. A lot of fantasy builds are. Medium armor long bow (actually a recurve but same same) with long sword secondary dagger tertiary with an attuned spell storing accessory that auto casts revivify once.
The web spell description at 5:18 is by Matt Click. If you like D&D live plays check out "The Provokers" on his "fist full of dice" you tube channel. What I watched before there was a Critical Roll.
There should be a companion book with more benefits to each weapon rather than just dealing better damage and having a damage type. Somethingn like the ability to reduce armor on a crit or range, dealing a little extra damage, give a few twists to how a weapon can be used. Martials need "warlock invocations" to be closer to magic, they will not be able to out damage any caster, especially if we increase the number of enemies, but they can use some mechanical benefits.
Tasha's addresses this partially in the form of the 3 weapon feats: Crusher, Piercer, and Slasher. Crusher moves targets 5ft, Piercer... does something, and Slasher reduces their movement speed. All of them also have extra On Crit effects. AND they're half feats (strength or dex). Granted, these are feats; meaning one's ability to get them depends on a lot of things. But at least they're there.
@@Reapor234 yes, but on the same level a caster can get an equally strong feat, that is what I don't like about it. It is not that martial are useless, a fighter can mince a wizard, if the wizard is not prepared, but in general martial feel to samey
@@drawbyyourselve yeah, that's the biggest issue with them; which is why I addressed it in the comment. However, it's better than nothing at least. Plus, you can always talk to your DM about setting some gold/ downtime to find a trainer to grant you the feat (DMG says somewhere that you can do this as an alternative to normal rewards.).
@@drawbyyourselve yeah and in the same books casters got shadow/fey touched which basically gives them two known spells and a +1 to their casting ability score and a free cast of each of those spells. (Yeah martials can take them too but its way stronger on casters)
The best way to wait for your enemy to dash into melee range is to cast a spell..Clerics can cast bless/spirit guardians, paladins can casts heroism/bless/aid or throw a javelin and cast shield of faith, the hexblade can cast darkness, etc..
I have a monk variant of many enemies for that first kiting situation. Better speed to catch them off guard and then stunning strike. Good strategy is good, but being able to improvise when things go super badly is even better.
True story: In our game tonight I failed a save and was forced to just move forward and attack and it was the most uncomfortable thing ever as a melee. Another point for the first open field example, if you move forward instead of waiting for them to come to you, the bandits will immediately collapse on you. You'll be surrounded and unable to move and the rest will head to your allies. You are no longer the front line, you are now a liability.
Doorway/Stair actions: Have your caster, or anyone with Magic Initiate cast Grease. I love this spell on stairs going up. Your melee character with a reach weapon keeps them all in the area and everyone just waits for the guy at the top to knock everyone else down the stairs.
In the case of threatening melee monsters that will do anything to rush your casters, shoving them prone to slow them down can be the move. Casters can still be effective against a prone opponent via spells that force a saving throw rather than an attack. It's your ally archers and Warlocks that might have a problem, but even they can focus on another target in the meantime. Grappling is better, but you need a free hand, and I'm assuming your example is a sword and board fighter. Against melee flyers, or even ranged ones if your have a climbing speed and favorable terrain, readying a shove or jumping at them and shoving can be a great way to shut them down. Against huge+ creatures you can't shove and they can just go through you, you can use the Climbing onto a Bigger Creature optional rule from the DMG to at least move with them when they move, and get advantage on your attacks against them.
I like your videos, but I’d like to see one on optimizing grappling. Some possible ideas: -Barbarian/Rogue to have advantage and expertise on athletics checks -Picking up and dropping opponents to add fall damage(6ft character+3ft arms=10ft fall damage) -an in depth look at Tavern Brawler and Improvised Weapons(what damage is assigned to Improvised Weapons? Can you grapple one opponent and use them as an improvised weapon?) -Moving grappled opponents to block the movement of other enemies -How carry capacity interacts with grappling(Colossus race and Bear totem abilities that double carry capacity) -Grappler Feat, why it’s not worth it, and how to use restrained -Tactics of holding opponents in place to be an actual tank for the party -Can you grapple with your legs if your arms are full? -Which Feats that improve grappler builds and their effectiveness/niche(Tavern Brawler, Grappler, Mage Slayer, Sentinel, Martial Adept, Shield Master) -Spells/Class Features/Fighting Styles/Battle Maneuvers that can increase damage/effectiveness
@@PackTactics 🤣Yes, conjuring breaks the action economy. But there’s an interesting and often overlooked utility and actual tankiness/control in grappling that is arguably a lot more fun than just easy moding every encounter with an army of summons. A tavern brawler grappler in particular let’s you interact with the environment in interesting ways(using anything as a weapon) instead of just attacking or casting spells. A Barbarian/Rogue for example gets lots of synergies to make this somewhat viable: expertise+advantage for athletics/grapple checks, reckless+sneak attack for guaranteed damage, resistance+uncanny dodge for 1/4 damage, cunning action to grapple/dash or as a thief sleight of hands items/weapons from grappled opponents, etc.
Been doing a lot of fun combat stuff in Pathfinder using this similar philosophy. You can really stretch a lot out of a round in both 5e and Pathfinder if you're smart and creative
I've now upgraded my Armorer Artificer watching this. Having a returning javelin that also is a magical weapon is something I'd seriously want to talk to my DM about: Lightning returning javelin for the win!!
Love a returning lighting javelins but you can't do that with an Artificier as the infusions only work on Non Magical stuff. So you can make an mundane Javelins Return each turn, not a Lightning one. HOWEVER, if you are a Eldritch knight, then you can weapon bond the Lighting Javelins and fire them off before calling them back.
My paladin is mainly a sword and board melle character: with guiding bolt and javalins as a ranged dammage options, but now I'm thinking maybe I should get him a heavy crossbow and halbred/glave too.
Eldritch Knight + Dual Wielder Feat = "Sword, Trick, Sword, Trick, Sword, Trick, Gunslinger, Royal Guard." Pair this with Interaction, Drop Item(s), Weapon Bond, and Item Action... It makes swapping weapons, fast.
I have a Bugbear Barbarian that has a +4 in Strength and Dexterity (currently 4th level) that is a beast in melee and ranged combat. I use a pike so I basically have 15 foot melee, and grabbed Tasha's Piercer feat at 4th level so I can reroll low damage once a turn and add dice whenever I crit. This feat also translates well into my longbow attacks. Also, my high Dex and ranged weapons make it very easy for me to activate my bugbear's surprise attack damage for even higher damage. My Totem subclass gave me the bear of near invincibility and I'm looking to snag the Eagle next so I can really become an eagle eyed archer. I've considered multi-classing, but I'm afraid that my DM would not tolerate me becoming deadlier than I already am. Despite being kinda OP, he has done a good job not being the center of attention for the group or make combat too trivial. Our group even learned to utilize my bugbear's boogieman tactics to wipe out as many weaklings as we can so we can fight the big bads with full strength. DM even allowed me to have a pet wolf so that I have something else to do during my turn because those turns were too short. This also led the DM to be a bit more confident at throwing hordes of tougher enemies at us because we can clearly take care of them without needing a short or long rest after every fight. Over all, we have been having a ton of fun.
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Screenshotting now so I can do this later!
Do you think you'll start going over subclasses for each class? And do you think you could maybe kinda sorta do rune knight?
This is the most amazing video you have ever done Kobold. You have done what most people believe impossible. You have proven that surviving a melee encounter in 5E is possible.
But Kobold. What if my backup weapon is magic? D:
If moving 30ft forward and dodging is not optimal, and dashing forward isn’t optimal, then what is optimal when you are 60-70 feet away from a plethora of archers?
If archers are even further away, you can dash and then drop prone at the end, to get the same effect of move and dodge, but cover more ground
That is certainly innovative. Just watch out for the reduction of movement speed since if you don’t cover all the ground the first time, especially if they move back, you’ll have a lot less mobility the second time
@@justanormalaccountnothingt1571 yeah, it really just depends on the space you need to cover. Pieces of cover, distance, a lot of factors. Id Definitely try to eye a rock or tree to get behind instead, or maybe one to get to on a second turn of running if they are way out there.
@@justanormalaccountnothingt1571 I wouldn't say a lot less. You have more than moving forward and dodging. Half movement to stand up, move other half, dash, drop prone for free. That's 1.5x movement as opposed to 1x movement.
You say "or even further away" are you saying this because if they're with in approach via melee lying prone is bad for ourselves?
@@tawumpas not OP, but yeah, that's why. If they're dedicated ranged, it's fine. If they're ranged until you get close, a target presenting themselves for advantage is appealing.
Kobold: "Why would else would you watch optimization videos?"
Me who's a DM: I just want to challenge my players' abilities by knowing what they do effectively.
Optimal.
@@PackTactics and I just want to remember enough so that I'm not the one doing stuff like attacking a sleeping target lol
@@TheMightyBattleSquid The rogue in my party attacked the sleeping goblin, but since the attack is automatic crit, he just killed it on the spot
the fact that the DM has forgotten to give one bandits a healthbar makes this far to accurate
Fun thing about shoving people prone! It can be a very fun way to tackle flying enemies without hover! If your caster friends are nice enough to cast fly on you as well you can shove your flying opponents to the ground as flying creatures when knocked prone fall. Great video as always Kobold!
For Fireball!!
Sentinel Feat: Applies 0 Movement.
Oh shoot that's good to know, my Strength based grappler swarmlord has pretty good jump and a fly speed. It would be sick to jump up and take a flyer out of the sky
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 on opportunity attacks. saying that like its a viable alternative is nonsense.
@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305
It depends... Opportunity Attack related Feats can combo well.
Warcaster
Sentinel
Mage Slayer
Polarm Master (or swap this out for a Spell related Feat)
Shield Master (or swap with Crossbow Expertise)
Fighter Initiate for Thrown Weapon Fighting Style
Dual Wielder
All on top of a Unarmed Fighting Style Eberon Warforged Eldritch Knight.
3:00 dodging is also good instead of disengage, sure disengage removes op attacks entirely but dodge is almost as good, drains reactions, and protects you during the rest of the round.
Yeah, I did that once. Still got hit lmao. But its a viable strategy and a gamble to take.
ngl I've taken to "meta game" baiting reactions from enemies like that. particularly against spell casters if I can bait a reaction then we have a turn where they can't counter spell
@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 tbh spell casters shouldn't be using their reactions to do a MELEE ATTACK instead of saving it for something actually useful if they're smart but valid strat
@@dhyanpatel142DM might’ve given them something similar to war caster or some spellcasting enemies primarily since monsters of the multiverse have supernatural melee attacks that are half-decent I think.
My high elf arcane trickster that dashes and uses silvery barbs to gain advantage on the next attack, *sigh* these mortals
Good solution for a Strength-based martial character who is facing a foe that's Doorway Dodging... just shove them back, or grapple them and pull them out of the doorway. Dodge doesn't give them advantage on Dexterity based Ability Checks, only Saving Throws. If you are a raging barbarian, chances are you'll easily grab that enemy and drag them out of the doorway, or even shove them forward with your movement if you DM allows that. Likewise, look out for this if a DM attempts it against you. Probably unlikely, but it could happen.
Edit: This also works fine on any character, so long as you take proficiency/expertise as needed in Athletics. A rogue can be just as good at grappling as a raging barbarian, if they build for it.
Grappling is an attack (as is shoving) so Dodge DOES give advantage.
@@williammeek4078 sadly it doesn't. Dodge gives you advantage on dex saves and gives opponents disadvantage on attack rolls. When a grapple is made (or a shove), it's not an attack, it's a contested check of the grappler's athletics vs the target's athletics or acrobatics. Those are ability checks, not attack rolls so dodging doesn't help
Telekinetic also allows most casters to negate doorway dodging; Thorn Whip, Lightning Lure, Grasp of Hadar and Crusher too in more niche cases.
@@Magic-nx2fb Grapples and Shoves are specifically referred to as "special attacks," made using a dice roll during the Attack action. I would rule that you get disadvantage on your roll to grapple (or straight if you're a Raging Barbarian) but the target doesn't get any specific benefit to its own roll from Dodging because it's not mentioned in the Dodge action.
Now, what my players always get sad about is that Shove/Grapple needs to be taken with the Attack action; you can't AoO someone by trying to grab them with a free hand to drop their movement to 0, Sentinel-style, because that's using a reaction.
@@BeaglzRok1 and that's fine if you rule it that way, but there's a difference between a special attack and an attack roll. Dodge mentions attack rolls, not just any attack, so as written, there's no benefits in dodging that avoids grapples
Pedantic correction, but in 1:33 you cannot use “extra attack” in a reaction. “Multiattack” is an action exclusively to NPC creatures such as bears, bandit captains, etc.
Valid! I said the wrong thing but I show the right thing. Thank god. Theres a reason why I show screenshots of what I mean.
@@PackTactics doesn't that mean creatures can prep multi-attacks?
@@werewolfjedi38 *oh gosh can they?*
@@lastwymsi i believe NPC holding an action to attack does apply the multi attack rule if it meets the specific requirements (i.e. a bandit captain can't multi attack with throwing daggers if the multi attack applies only to making melee attacks with a scimitar and dagger)
also, unless you have one specific FS or you already has a javelin at hand you can't use extra attack with the javelin either, but assuring that you will attack and not expending your reaction is worth the underwhelming javelin attack
I have to argue that the shove attack is actually really viable for combat when knocking them prone
It only takes one attack action and gives you advantage on the rest of your attack actions. It's even better if you have the shield master feat.
Not only that but it gives your enemy disadvantage on attack rolls and makes them less able to run away.
You can knock an enemy prone attack , and run away to give your allie spellcasters the chance to use AOE dmg spells like fireball .
Sword and board with shield master is an amazing combo
(Edit: The shove before the attack isn't actually legal, my bad.)
This works surprisingly well with rogues. Shield master's bonus action shove can be used first, as long as you commit to the attack action on that turn, which gives you advantage on the attack and lets you sneak attack. Also expertise in athletics makes the shove much more reliable.
I'm planning to use a build like this, with my first level in fighter for heavy armour and shield proficency, so I don't have to rely on dex for armour class. It probably doesn't scale well, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
@@jaywalmoose9623 The "Shove can be used first" is unfortunately more reliant on how much the table hangs on the word of Sage Advice as they've ruled it must be used at the conclusion of the attack action instead of any point after declaration.
@@sunname6252 I might be wrong tbh, I'm no expert. My source is a recent video from DnD Shorts about feats, that showed a tweet apparently from a creator of 5e saying you could use the shove first. It's about a minute and a half into the video. If different people have said different things, it's probably up to the DM.
@@jaywalmoose9623 Yeah I saw that video and when I looked it up there was a later correction by the same twitter that no the Shove Bonus Action is after the Attack. Both of those tweets are a few years old too.
@@KarumaJiusetu Welp, there goes my strength rogue idea. Thanks for the info tho, I could've ended up running a build where the gimmick isn't legal.
Tabaxi are amazing at giving movement options in situations like these. If you're 35ft away, you can get in range for a polearm attack, then get out of enemy move + melee range again with no dash action required.
My favourite tabaxi combo is ranger and zephyr strike. Zephyr stops opportunity attacks, so you can sprint into the enemy backline, hit their caster with a boosted melee attack, and gain another 30ft movement speed to make your escape. Definitely not optimal, but it's fun as hell.
Surprised you didn’t mention shoving prone and grappling. The enemy is prone with 0 movement until they break grapple, at least for goons or when you have expertise. It’s dodge and advantage for you and the team
This also hard-counters enemies who are dodging. The dodge action doesn't work if your speed is reduced to 0, therefore if you grapple an enemy who is dodging they lose the effect. (So, if you have extra attack and make your first attack a grapple, you could make an attack with your second attempt a straight roll without disadvantage, or push prone to give your team advantage vs the target who only until your turn was granting disadvantage to them.
Or just prone the target for Extra Attack and save the last Extra Attack for a grapple.
Shove + Grapple is my BM Fighter's bread and butter. Shove with Shield Master's bonus action, attack with my weapon and then sheathe my weapon and grapple so that other melee buds can smack it down. On my next turn, if the enemy is still alive, I end the grab and smack it twice with my unsheathed weapon twice. Skill Expert expertise on Athletics makes this even spicier.
this rule makes loads of sense until I realize I can also attack with a two handed weapon. I conceptualize it as a judo sweep, and the threat of nut stomps and face stabs to keep them from standing
@@StonegazeSteam that combo actually doesnt work :x
Shield master shove is a bonus action you can only take AFTER making an attack
"If you take the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to try to shove a creature within 5 feet of you with your shield."
Grapple Grapple Grapple always Grapple never stop grappling, Grapple main action Grapple second attack Grapple bonus action, Grapple item interaction, Grapple free action.
Yes, preach the truth about Javelins! If your DM is especially cheap you can even use Darts since they're ranged weapons with the Finesse property, so you can use DEX or STR as you choose. If only 5e had a Thrown Weapon-based Sharpshooter (SS's first bullet point only works on attack rolls with ranged weapons, which melee weapons with the Thrown property are not) to ignore disadvantage outside of that measly 30ft range, or double both ranges, would be amazingly viable for STR martials. Even spears with 20/60 range would be a decent ranged option at 40/120, let alone javelins if they were bumped up to 60/240.
Really the Martials have two jobs: protect the people with fewer hit points, use the terrain effectively. Everything else is roleplay. Jumping in front of the Bugbears harassing your mages, and getting KO'd and killed, if they can Revivify you or otherwise avoid a TPK it was worth it. If there's a lava pool nearby, or a bottomless pit, or hell even a Cloud of Daggers spell, don't wait for your DM to send their bruiser in to Shove your entire party into 10d10 damage at the start of your turn. Do it first for way more damage, if not an instant-kill! When compared to one or two hits from a 1d8+2+STR longsword, the risk is the same (missing the attack) but the reward is way better (extra damage/removing an enemy from the fight entirely) If a melee character finds a situation where they can effectively have an upcasted Inflict Wounds and not have to spend a spell slot for it, take it, and it'll flex your creative muscles. Casters, see if you can't Shatter someone off a cliff by doing damage to the ground under him, dropping him off the side Avatar Kyoshi-style.
@@rafaelcastor2089 I'm pretty sure it only applies to ranged weapons, but 5e IS notorious in my group for it's weirdly lawyer-esque wordings, where it's not clear what part of a term is supposed to be "grouped together." Like how "a dead creature" is considered a specific object target for Resurrection spells.
So here it depends on if it's "ranged weapon" "attack rolls" or "ranged" "weapon attack rolls." I'm pretty sure it's the former, as IIRC there's no instance of "weapon attack roll" that isn't specified as either "melee/ranged weapon attack" or "attack with a melee/ranged weapon." If it WERE "ranged attack," which does apply to thrown weapons, it would be easier to leave out the "weapon" part, or take the Branding/Banishing Smite route with "weapon attack," or if you're particularly strict "ranged attack with a weapon" so it doesn't bleed into ranged spell attacks that it wouldn't apply to anyway.
TL;DR The Thrown property lets weapons make a "ranged attack," not a "ranged weapon attack." You don't make a "melee weapon attack" if you're smacking someone with a crossbow because it's not a melee weapon; it's a "melee attack with an improvised/ranged weapon."
Darts work with sharpshooter. Spears and javelins don't.
I'm a little late to the party, but darts are listed as ranged weapons and therefore work with ss. Colby over at d4 made a cool build called The Needler
Doorway dodging can be countered with forced movement using spells or a grappler. It is indeed very fun to see a DM uno-reverse our tactics!
Doorway dodging is broken based on the exact topography of the room you're in and the one the defender(-s) are in (divination spells are very helpful for identifying the room structure behind). Usually, you should take cover from ranged attacker on the other side of the door and use forced movement to pull the doorway dodger inside so they can be isolated and you can get in. Otherwise, the doorway dodger is now wide open to the focus attacked.
Command is perhaps the most reliable and economic way to move a doorway dodger out of position.
Knowing the map may also reveal ways how you can circumvent the chokepoint, especially if you have particularly useful movement abilities.
There's also simply the option of falling back to a more favorable location. If the enemy wants to doorway dodge, and you aren't trapped inside the room you're in... just retreat a bit. They can't hurt you if you fall back and break line of sight.
@@Schmeethe88 can still do this in a confined space. Just move to the side after attacking. Full or 3/4 cover when the enemy tries to attack.
@@Schmeethe88 can still do this in a confined space. Just move to the side after attacking. Full or 3/4 cover when the enemy tries to attack.
Dude just shove them
A dodger might have to deal with being grappled, since dodge states ‘ You lose this benefit if you are incapacitated or if your speed drops to 0’ and that happens with a grapple. Also two doorway dodgers facing off is possible in which case you can grapple the other guy one turn then dodge from then on for instance
One thing that isnt mentioned here is a pretty niche tactic i like to use myself. The easiest way to optimize the effect you have as a melee, is to drop dead so your spell casters start panicking and whip out their spells instead of going to bed with 7 Spell slots left over.
I liked this comment but it moved the count to 70
unacceptable
so I unclicked my like...
Consider this comment a 'virtual' like
This really helped me as a new player. Playing a barbarian felt very dull. Thank you 🙏
Another super underrated tactic: Grappling your enemy. This has a bunch of advantages. The grappled target has a movement of zero, you can drag them around at half speed, and you now occupy the same square.
That last feature is especially useful since it means that your grappled target can no longer hit you with AoE effects without hitting themselves as well. Cool GMs may even let you interrupt somatic or even verbal spellcasting
I recently introduced a small set of house rules on my table to make positioning more important. Essentially, flanking from the sides becomes important and backstabbing becomes deadly, but you can stop opponents from just walking around you.
It is quite intuitive but forces people to position with care
What are your rules for stopping the flank attempt? Please, share =)
@@a_wild_Kirillian You can use your reaction to either a) stop the movement of a creature up to one size larger than you that is moving around you (i.e. from one field in your reach to another field in your reach) or b) turn around to face in any direction to avoid being backstabbed.
To compensate the greater need for reactions, every class who gets the extra attack feature at level 5 also gains an additional reaction at level 3.
@@a_wild_Kirillian And yes, I require my players to face in a specific direction. Attacks from the sides or back get bonus +1d6 to hit and attacks from the back deal an additional weapon die of damage. Daggers used to backstab crit on a die result of 15+.
I love the fact that prone halves movement speed essentially. I made a rogue bar Ian that could zone enemies by action shoving then bonus action dashing or disengaging. Better yet. Shove one enemy grapple another and dash to make good distance. Then the enemies are very confused
"Your DM and players will be surprised because you're thinking." Wow, I never thought of that before. Thinking sounds great
another thing I don't see a lot of people mention is that if you a martial class and you see a mage? GRAB THEM FIRST and be sure to specify the arms. Quite a few spells require a somatic component, aka they have to a make a gesture with their hands, while it's up to the DM the mage will probably have to make a strength save or check to force the somatic component out.
Another thing is Mages will rarely break out of your grapple and will usually have to burn a spell slot to get away from you which is burning up their spells slots. Sure it's a 2nd level... until they run out, will they burn a 3rd or 4th level just to get away from you? Of course, if the DM allows it, you can always grapple their mouth shut...
One day before the first session of my friend's campaign, thank you Kobold!
Hope you have lots of fun :)
Have fun, mate!
@@gongolongo1 Thanks mate! I've been waiting for this one for more than 5 months and you can't imagine how much I need some D&D.
@@Commie-Comrade Thanks mate! Hope you are having fun as well in any campaigns you might be a part of.
@@KageWoodsman oh man yeah i know exactly what you mean, i also started to play D&D like 2 months ago and ive had a blast so far
Optimise melee by staying out of it as long as possible
2:11 I could just about hear Piccolo from DBZ Abridged giving this same talk to Gohan.
'Today, we're gonna work on something Piccolo told me you were having a little trouble with..'
Player: I will dogde the door
NPC: it is shove time!
They have to shove you twice if you stand in the doorway
@@nacholord2328 not actually! what do you mean by that?! using 8:10 as an example if one character stands dodge in front of the door only one sucessful shove is need to open a 5ft space to the rest of the enemies enter from aside or just one sucessful knock prone to attack normal after...
Still, the dodge the doorway it is a good tactic and depends how the DM will handle it if he will just waste disadvantage attacks or use the shove to knock prone and neutralize the dodge disadvantage or open space with a push
@@Paulo.Castro98oh oops, you're right. It depends on the doorway though. They can also of course grapple and drag you
Just joined a new campaign with a full party of casters and and half-casters. I'm playing a barbarian/rogue because of that, so this couldn't have come out at a better time. Thank you mister kobold.
Using Shield Master to shove prone is a lot of fun, though, especially when it's an enemy that is trying to escape!
Telekinetic Feat (Bonus Action) is a Shove (away or toward you, only) in a 30 ft visible range up to 5ft of forced movement. The target does need to roll or they can ignore the roll. It's great to move other Players away without triggering enemy Opportunity Attacks.
I usually take this Feat as my 1st.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 If your DM allows it, Telekinetic is FANTASTIC for any class that doesn't usually have something to do with their Bonus Action. Also quite useful for some out-of-combat stuff with the invisible Mage Hand.
@@Technodreamer
I use Telekinetic to air dash around areas by 5ft + movement speed... (The rules only mention my position in reference to my position when targeting myself, since "You are a Creature", if you want to get technical as to why I can Air Dash.)
It's probably the worst version of Flying.
For my Eldritch Knight. I already have Mage Hand, so the added Invisibility and +30 ft on top of the original 30ft travel distance is an upgrade.
Hee hee hee, this is an interesting vid as my plans are usually "run in and hit a bunch". I'mma melee focused player, I LOVE playing the Melee DPS and Tank, but these are some good tactics.
I'm currently playing a Tortle Barbarian Artificer with an AC of 22 thanks to DM Ruling of Natrual AC adding Constitution, and some Magical tinkering giving me a modified "Bracers of Defense". My main thing is that my party consists of a lot of ranged focused squishies. Me and a Paladin are the only Melee people out of 7 characters. Our job is to hold the line, keeping them backed up and away from the squishies. I've done that with my Maul and Sentinal, able to crush foes relatively quickly in a single round, and when htey try to retreat to get away from me, I knock their legs out.
Javelins have been a life saver for me when I'm not reaching my foe or they're out of reach. Spells have helped too but I'm very limited since I just started going into Artificer. Once I get to Artillerist, it'll make range foes MUCH easier
You speak of dms doorwaydodging, actually this points me to one of the most important dm tools to handle optimized players: intelligent opposition. The oposition, atleast its leadership and midleadership shoukd be intelligent, crafty and competent. They should learn from what the players are doing.
Make it part of the story: make some enemy run away or have bystanders that can observe, have the pcs come across correspondance between levels of leadership in the opposition describing the pcs ractics and how effective they are, then later on hear rumors or evidence of new troops being obtained by the enemy to coubter this. E.G: the players use cheesegrating (spikegrowth+forced movement) after the 3rd encounter they do this, have the pcs come across a letter where a luitennant complains about these dangerous adventurers and their deadly tactics, then next session hear rumors of how the bbeg has hired the araacockra legion (flying enemies counter cheesegrating)
I actually have been trying to build an echo knight dragon-themed tiefling for a few days now, and while I'm still struggling for a backstory, I started making the character in order to spice up melee combat with my favorite subclass. Dodging in perticular is one thing I wanted to do more so I added a bit of a cautious dirty fighting personality to her. Combined with her starting weapons being a longbow, halberd, and a pair of fists and I think she'll be pretty fun when I get to play her.
Remember you can hold actions. If your DM allows it, you could bonus action move your echo and then hold your action to swap places with it if someone attacks you. It would work like a discount misty step.
@@tomsawyerpiper9412 And summoning the echo itself is costless too meaning you do really lose anything out of doing it. Smart. :)
@@tomsawyerpiper9412 Just going to note for others that RAW & RAI you can't use an action to perform a bonus action
My echo knight is a caravan doctor who got shot by a magical weapon resulting in in their echo
@@Oniphire which is why I added the caveat of the DM’s approval.
"If you doorway dodge there, your DM and the other players are going to be surprised because you're thinking."
Damn :(
I will definitely use these tips as both a DM and a lover of melee builds. ^^
DM: * has npc doorway dodge *
Barbarian: I would like to dodge the doorway.
DM: ...?
Barbarian: * crashes through the wall next to it *
9:17
Dm: barbarian it is you turn
Barbarian: I rage and move the wood over so it blocks the door
I like to ready an action in times when I suspect combat will happen. Makes total sense when deep in enemy territory. In a game where the side that takes the most turns in action economy usually wins, being able to attack or react before combat starts can make a difference
There actually is a highly effective way to use shove that I never see ANYONE try. You can’t get up from the prone position if you have less than half your movement remaining. So if you’re grappled while you’re prone, you cannot get back up until you break the grapple. Which means you have disadvantage on pretty much everything, including the athletics check to break the grapple, while everything but ranged attacks has advantage against you while you’re unable to do pretty much anything about it.
Pretty much every martial class in the game has extra attack and both a grapple and a shove only takes up ONE of these attacks. So you can potentially grapple and enemy and then shove them prone in ONE TURN. Costing you only one round of attacks (assuming you’re not a fighter with 3-4 attacks) and your off hand while imposing incredibly significant disadvantages on your opponent.
While grappling someone prone is a good strategy, you are making it seem stronger than it is. The disadvantage is just on your attack rolls, and attack rolls from within 5ft of you have advantage. No, you do not get disadvantage on the athletics check to break free, literally where does it say that. You don't even have disadvantage on dexterity saves. It's good for pinning down individual people, and it won me some duels, but most of the time you won't see much use of it, especially since those moves don't work on especially big targets.
@@g-magewizard7007 Sorry, I misspoke. RAR, it doesn’t give your opponent disadvantage but until it was clarified in later books, it would give you advantage on the check since grappling is technically an attack.
When it's your turn, you start with full movement, so you can still get up.
@@christianemerson4622 except that when grappled your movement is reduced to 0, which means that until you break the grapple you don’t have the half movement needed to get up.
@@HorizonStronghold Your movement is NOT 0 last I checked; grapples don't restrict movement. Statuses like being pinned, swallowed, encumbered, or anything of the like (I can't remember them all) reduce movement to 0.
I have no idea how I never thought about defaulting to the dodge action
you should have better things to do for the most part
Counter to doorway dodging: Attempt to shove the creature who's blocking the door prone. It will still be "doging" but since its a skill contest it won't have advantage. If you knock it prone you'll have advantage to beat it on the ground, negating the dodge and you can also step over it.
In short: shove the creature who is doorway dodging. Always shove something that is dodging.
Knock prone and grapple. You cannot dodge if your speed is zero, ergo if you grapple them you cancel their dodge by dropping their speed to zero. This also means they cannot use half movement to stand up from prone because they have no movement to halve... so you turned a doorway dodger into a pincushion for your team.
"Why else would you watch optimization content?"
Because I love the dulcet tone of bagpipes and kobolds, of course!
Doorway dodging is not that huge an issue when the DM does it because fe monsters are proficient in Athletics or Acrobatics, plus a few spells/abilities require saving throws as opposed to skill contests (like the awesome Telekinetic feat). Same reason why a caster can doorway dodge as long as they're proficient in Acrobatics.
Why proficiency in acrobatics and athletics? Is the solution to a doorway dodger the shove action, or any save in general?
@@imaplaygames633 There's a section in the DMG that lists additional combat actions. The Overrun and Tumble rules are fairly popular, creatures can try to get past other creatures by succeeding at a Athletics/Acrobatics contest, contest is chosen by the one who uses the action. The creature can also attempt this with a bonus action.
@@imaplaygames633 The biggest danger of doorway dodging might be that an enemy can grapple you and pull you closer to its allies, freeing the doorway while separating you from the party and causing you to be surrounded by enemies on all sides. However, since few monsters are proficient in Athletics, even a wizard with proficiency in Dexterity can be a doorway dodger.
For the same reason, if the DM attempt to doorway dodge, a PC with proficiency in Athletics is very likely to be able to put a stop to it quickly. And if that PC is a caster, they may have Telekinetic, thorn whip, or other effects that can move an enemy without having to use their own Strength or skill proficiencies.
Doorway dodging in general is super easy to beat if the attacking party has more than 1 int tbh. Even many wild beasts would back off after a round instinctively
@@Nasgatemk2 That's a win for the party too though: doorway dodging is effective only if the party has ranged options. If their enemies back off, the party can still pick them off; if they can't, the party can just avoid combat and leave.
I'm no strategist in tabletop because I'm trying to have stupid fun but this channel has given me good tactics for when I play Solasta
This is really entertaining to watch after some time in Baldur's Gate 3, knowing a lot of people probably discovered how useful flexibility and versatility on a martial really is. Even though there are a lot of enemies with range.
Guess it should be noted that you're not technically allowed to draw more than one weapon per turn since there's only one Free action, so the Extra Attack javelin opener requires you to start with one in your hand already.
You can expand 5 ft of movement to draw something if you use your free draw.
@@fluffycthulhu6362 Which system is that from? Would like to yoink it for my 5e games.
@@Autonym I think that was in 5e. Idk. My DM ruled it like that and I was ruleing this in same way.
@@fluffycthulhu6362 That's a house rule.
I personally think that is an entirely unreasonable restriction on a not great ranged weapon. If your javelins are in a bundle there is no reason you can't use one hand to pull two javelins out. That would be like arguing you can only draw one arrow or crossbow bolt per round.
Shoving prone can be optimal if combined with a feature that sets a creature's speed to zero but doesn't give them disadvantage on their attack rolls, such as being grappled or because it can give them disadvantage on outgoing attacks. Or advantage on attacks against them for multiple turns
Can a grappled prone creature stand up?
@@AvengerAtIlipa Chapter 9 section 2 of the PHB- movement and positioning- reads:
"You can drop prone without using any of your speed. Standing up takes more effort; doing so costs an amount of movement equal to half your speed. For example, if your speed is 30 feet, you must spend 15 feet of movement to stand up. You can’t stand up if you don’t have enough movement left or if your speed is 0."
Apendix A of the PHB- conditions- for grapple reads "A grappled creature's speed becomes 0, and it can't benefit from any bonus to its speed."
Thus: a grappled creature can not stand up
9:20 you give the enemy disadvantage, with web for example (you love it), stunning strike with a monk, blocking they're vision, etc
One thing worth mentioning is that spellcasters basically don't have opertunity attacks and have far weaker prepared actions due to needing concentration and gambling spell slots in order to ready a spell, making cover and doors extremely useful if you're a martial going up against a caster.
Nice video!
When the DM doorway dodges, just grapple the creature and drag them out of the door. No longer blocked! Don't do this in a tunnel though if you have a caster. Let them line attack with a spell.
Line spells are bad, because (mostly) they originate from you, the creatures behind the first one have half cover from your spell.
I watch optimization content because I find it fascinating.
Dig the video but I was surprised there wasn't more discussion of grapple, since we are talking specifically about strategizing for STR-based melee characters. It is not always an efficient move but it is one of the few ways that a martial (who probably would prefer to tank anyway) can lockdown or control the aggro of a creature.
Funny thing is I can use these tactics with theater of the mind- just by using math!
Ranges can be specific when needed.
Compare your actions out of combat and when you’ve got an enemy with comparable maneuverability to what you trained for, you don’t even have to do the math. You did it already!
"Reject swords, return to cutlery." -The Gourmêt. (a player I DM)
in the situation of ranged enemies at around 2:20 just drop prone after attacking. if anyone wants to get in melee they need to dash anyway so spending movement to get up isnt all that bad
My dnd group has a joke/mantra "Dodge is the best action in the game" because of how amazing it is and how much I personally use it to great effect
My only fear of not just running to the enemies in melee as a player that loves tanking is that the enemies may just ignore you or spread their numbers out rather than focus on you, which they would if the rest of your party is much further away from you
A lot of tank builds suffer from enemies just ignoring you and building distance with your team while threatening opportunity attacks is a great way to encourage them attacking you instead
tanking doesn't work in 5e sadly
@@xuklysc it very much does
Tanking vs one enemy is literally just about having sentinel or similar effects that basically forces them to target just you
Grappling can work too in that regard
Sticking to mages and ranged attackers to enforce disadvantage on attack rolls while having sentinel or war caster to present a strong opportunity attack also works well
Tanking isn't about being tanky, it's about forcing or heavily incentivize your enemies to attack you
Usually control tools do that best
Or spells like Bane + effects that force disadvantage like an armorer artificer's guantlet make it so hard for enemies to hit anyone else
You can also provide cover one way or another
Or if you're a battlemaster fighter you can disarm/push
There are so many tactics you can employ to "tank" in 5e in its purest definition of getting damage away from your allies
@@prosamis "Tanking isn't about being tanky, it's about forcing or heavily incentivize your enemies to attack you" which, aside from fighting vs only one enemy (which is, at the very least, uncommon) heavily undersuported by the system. Only the Armorer can inflict that to more than one enemy per turn
@@xuklysc ever tried playing a web character whose main purpose is to keep pushing enemies into the web and constantly force groups of units to make saves or be restrained?
Spells do wonders to help tank
Bane is great too
Obscuring vision helps
Literally making cover for allies and making it so tedious for enemies to hit allies
Being in the front lines counterspell spamming the mage
Upcast hold person
Upcast suggestion
Anti life shell
Wall of sand
Wall of force
Black tentacles
A lot of these available as early as spell level 1, 2, and 3
@@prosamis As for the web character, no I haven't. That said, that is crowd control, you are not directing damage to yourself instead of the allies, you are avoiding the enemy from having good actions, and I reckon that isn't a melee character, in fact only the suggestion of offering cover is a tank and something doable by a melee character
Grapple the doorway dodger :3 advantage and disadvantage cancel out! You can also shove, I believe that’s an athletics check? Not certain.
about making target prone
its also good idea to do that if enemy is trying to stay up... if enemy creature is ending its turn standing up that means he wants to be up and not prone(Or dm is not thinking :D )
he gets disadvantage at attacking too so if you push him prone and then grapple him on ground you can disable a heavy damage dealing enemy as a tank for long time while party is clearing other threats. Creature attacking with disadvantage miss more than hit and this gives you security. Also if rogue switch to dagger from bow he can one shot the target easly with an easy crit (around %9 chance) or just double tap with reaction attack from a haste or commanding strike from you if you are a battlemaster.
yes ranged dps is better but thats because flying enemies are a thing and if you fail to kill the enemy its dangerious, prone target dies almost allways if dps switches to melee for that. Better so if you are crossbow expert you don't even need to swap weapons you can just shoot point blank with any ranged weapon including cantrips as wizard yes that works you don't get disadvantage. Combining this with sharpshooter you can one shot prone targets easly from point blank range if barbarian shoved them.
ALLWAYS SHOVE THE BIG DRAGON THAT IS FLYING! Prone will make them fall to ground! After that its a bloodbath.
I am sure for a tank build grappling and shoving is very important! You are not expected to deal dmg so helping others deal more damage or forcing enemies to deal less dmg or even better making them attack you to be free is amazing!
Shoving flying creatures prone is generally a good idea but it only works on creatures uo to one size larger than you so it can be hard to pull off on dragons without additional feats, class options or spells.
@@kroth5810 potion of growth is a common enough potion that many dms allow you to purchase, enlarge or reduce can be used by casters too
...
Yes I admit my favorite character is a runeknight I am guilty 🤣
DM, doorway doges
Wizard, casts earth tremor
"like your spiderman" i fucking wish, Spiderman is impossible to do justice to RAW.
Cool, I was actually thinking of how I could use Shove prone as part of a melee build using Path of Beast barb and monk dip. With 5 levels of barb for Extra attack, 1 of monk for BA attack, and one of fighter for Unarmed fighting style. First round, rage, then use an attack as a shove to knock prone at advantage on your Athletics check, then Beast claw attack with Extra attack, which allows for another Claw attack as part of that action. So 2 attacks at advantage without having to use Reckless, and help your melee friends. Then, on succeeding turns, as the Beast Claws "count as" simple melee weapons, they work as monk weapons (which do not require said weapons to be held or wielded, only "used"), so you get to do a BA unarmed strike (slashing if you went with a race that has natural weapons that do slashing like tortle or tabaxi) for another 1d8+STR+rage damage along with 3 Claw attacks/2 Claw attacks and Unarmed strike. Either 4 attacks or a shove plus 3 attacks once rage is going.
You still get unarmed fighting with a monk, and by spending a ki point, you can do two unarmed strikes on your bonus action
@@christianemerson4622 You don't get the Unarmed Fighting Style with a monk. They get Martial Arts, which is a lower damage die than the fighting style until I think monk level 12.
@@micahswerens2472 Monks still get an Unarmed Strike on their bonus action thanks to martial arts, which can turn into two attacks thanks to Flurry of blows. Anyone else just gets the one, only only a couple others get to use it as a bonus action.
Also, the damage die increases from a d4 to a d6 either at level 6 or before then, then goes to a d8, then to a d10. Anyone else with an Unarmed Strike can ONLY use a d4.
@@christianemerson4622 I already said I took a monk level for BA unarmed strike. Could take more levels to get ki and flurry of blows, but probably not worth it.
Monks get Unarmed STRIKE, not Unarmed FIGHTING STYLE, the latter of which gives an immediate d8 damage die for unarmed attacks. And tortles can do d4+STR mod, or with monsters of multiverse tortles and a few others do d6+str unarmed strikes, so no, it is not true that anyone else with unarmed strike can only use a d4.
“[MELEE MARTIAL, you’re not the best at doorway dodging]” It hursts… but it’s true 😔
1st lesson, do not move in.
Okay. I'm listening.
Lol I had a DM try and doorway Dodge as well as abuse cover, nothing like a non Dex saving throw spell to ruin that. My favorite was where he had archers shooting from an arrow slit. Casting shatter there worked wonderfully.
you tackle doorway dodging by using "shape stone" and create a larger door on (possibly a flanking) wall or you just find a way to break the wall and create more space for the enemy to care about, or ,even better, you throw your barbarian in the midst of the fight charging and jumping on the doorway dodger while raging and having a caster support him with advantage.
9:20 AOE and depending on door size you can use attacks of opportunity.
Extra Attack doesn't work with javelins either, unless the character has either the Dual Wielder feat, starts combat holding at least one javelin, or has Thrown Weapon Fighting style. If they have neither the feat nor the fighting style, they can throw two javelins on their first turn (provided they started combat with one already in hand), and then just one javelin on each subsequent turn, as they only have one free object interaction each turn.
Edit: I came on way too hard for no reason here, My bad. While technically true by raw, I would argue that there is no reasonable difference between grabbing multiple arrows from a quiver and drawing multiple javelins from a bundle (Javelins aren't full-sized spears, you can easily wrap your hand around multiple in a single pull). Especially in a game where you can fire and reload a crossbow six times in six seconds with no free hand.
@@kevingriffith6011 Most ranged weapons have the ammunition property, which states that "drawing the ammunition from a quiver, case, or other container is part of the attack".
Thrown weapons do not have such a property, and must be drawn like any other weapon in the game.
@@norandomnumbers Yeah, sorry. My "Defend javelin" instinct popped up and I went on attack mode. I acknowledged RAW in the edit. Best option then would be to wait until you can get an incredibly expensive magic item or can wait for your artificer to spare you an infusion for a returning javelin.
i wanna see more martials tying rope to their throwable weapons and keeping hold of the other side. this makes some easy difficult terraign that can recharge by picking it up. plus you could use it as a teather to pull enemies closer.
also dont forget casting enlarged/reduce on ally martials to make them bigger and because of weapon size rules that increases their damage.
That's a cool idea and I'd be all for it as a DM, but it's also homebrew as there are no rules for allowing this at the table.
@@Schmeethe88 i honestly would even debate if it is homebrew unless making a tripwire trap is homebrew. i think this is steeped into the imagination clause where if a rule doesn't exist then basic logic takes precedent. i just used language similar to the books since it is just logical for it to happen even with just RAW readings.
"Your DM and the other players will be surprised because you're thinking". Ouch.
Funny thing is starter Aragorn build is actually a good starter build. A lot of fantasy builds are.
Medium armor long bow (actually a recurve but same same) with long sword secondary dagger tertiary with an attuned spell storing accessory that auto casts revivify once.
The web spell description at 5:18 is by Matt Click. If you like D&D live plays check out "The Provokers" on his "fist full of dice" you tube channel. What I watched before there was a Critical Roll.
now I miss my 3.5 barbarian pining enemies to tree with javelins while raging.
Can you do a video on Spirit Shroud, aka, Hex but better?
There should be a companion book with more benefits to each weapon rather than just dealing better damage and having a damage type.
Somethingn like the ability to reduce armor on a crit or range, dealing a little extra damage, give a few twists to how a weapon can be used. Martials need "warlock invocations" to be closer to magic, they will not be able to out damage any caster, especially if we increase the number of enemies, but they can use some mechanical benefits.
Tasha's addresses this partially in the form of the 3 weapon feats: Crusher, Piercer, and Slasher.
Crusher moves targets 5ft, Piercer... does something, and Slasher reduces their movement speed. All of them also have extra On Crit effects. AND they're half feats (strength or dex).
Granted, these are feats; meaning one's ability to get them depends on a lot of things. But at least they're there.
@@Reapor234 yes, but on the same level a caster can get an equally strong feat, that is what I don't like about it.
It is not that martial are useless, a fighter can mince a wizard, if the wizard is not prepared, but in general martial feel to samey
@@drawbyyourselve yeah, that's the biggest issue with them; which is why I addressed it in the comment. However, it's better than nothing at least. Plus, you can always talk to your DM about setting some gold/ downtime to find a trainer to grant you the feat (DMG says somewhere that you can do this as an alternative to normal rewards.).
@@drawbyyourselve yeah and in the same books casters got shadow/fey touched which basically gives them two known spells and a +1 to their casting ability score and a free cast of each of those spells. (Yeah martials can take them too but its way stronger on casters)
The shove action is why I *adore* the telekinetic feat. Flying enemy? Get grounded.
Coffee with fennel,rutabaga,vanilla bean and cream.
Imagine not being the mega chad barbarian fighter that just full sprints straight into the enemy
The best way to wait for your enemy to dash into melee range is to cast a spell..Clerics can cast bless/spirit guardians, paladins can casts heroism/bless/aid or throw a javelin and cast shield of faith, the hexblade can cast darkness, etc..
I think he's assuming a pure martial with no spells.
0:13 You misspelled "Strength" as "Streng*h*th".
I have a monk variant of many enemies for that first kiting situation. Better speed to catch them off guard and then stunning strike. Good strategy is good, but being able to improvise when things go super badly is even better.
True story: In our game tonight I failed a save and was forced to just move forward and attack and it was the most uncomfortable thing ever as a melee.
Another point for the first open field example, if you move forward instead of waiting for them to come to you, the bandits will immediately collapse on you. You'll be surrounded and unable to move and the rest will head to your allies. You are no longer the front line, you are now a liability.
That's why I love the swashbuckler rogue
"Your DM and the other players will be surprised, because your thinking."
Ain't that the truth. This is why I have them tested before I invite them.
Doorway/Stair actions: Have your caster, or anyone with Magic Initiate cast Grease. I love this spell on stairs going up. Your melee character with a reach weapon keeps them all in the area and everyone just waits for the guy at the top to knock everyone else down the stairs.
In the case of threatening melee monsters that will do anything to rush your casters, shoving them prone to slow them down can be the move. Casters can still be effective against a prone opponent via spells that force a saving throw rather than an attack. It's your ally archers and Warlocks that might have a problem, but even they can focus on another target in the meantime.
Grappling is better, but you need a free hand, and I'm assuming your example is a sword and board fighter.
Against melee flyers, or even ranged ones if your have a climbing speed and favorable terrain, readying a shove or jumping at them and shoving can be a great way to shut them down.
Against huge+ creatures you can't shove and they can just go through you, you can use the Climbing onto a Bigger Creature optional rule from the DMG to at least move with them when they move, and get advantage on your attacks against them.
I like your voice! It's really nice
How can I as a DM encourage martials to try more tactics?
I like your videos, but I’d like to see one on optimizing grappling.
Some possible ideas:
-Barbarian/Rogue to have advantage and expertise on athletics checks
-Picking up and dropping opponents to add fall damage(6ft character+3ft arms=10ft fall damage)
-an in depth look at Tavern Brawler and Improvised Weapons(what damage is assigned to Improvised Weapons? Can you grapple one opponent and use them as an improvised weapon?)
-Moving grappled opponents to block the movement of other enemies
-How carry capacity interacts with grappling(Colossus race and Bear totem abilities that double carry capacity)
-Grappler Feat, why it’s not worth it, and how to use restrained
-Tactics of holding opponents in place to be an actual tank for the party
-Can you grapple with your legs if your arms are full?
-Which Feats that improve grappler builds and their effectiveness/niche(Tavern Brawler, Grappler, Mage Slayer, Sentinel, Martial Adept, Shield Master)
-Spells/Class Features/Fighting Styles/Battle Maneuvers that can increase damage/effectiveness
I already made a video about it. Cast conjure animals and make them grapple creatures. That's the best grapple build in the game.
@@PackTactics 🤣Yes, conjuring breaks the action economy. But there’s an interesting and often overlooked utility and actual tankiness/control in grappling that is arguably a lot more fun than just easy moding every encounter with an army of summons. A tavern brawler grappler in particular let’s you interact with the environment in interesting ways(using anything as a weapon) instead of just attacking or casting spells. A Barbarian/Rogue for example gets lots of synergies to make this somewhat viable: expertise+advantage for athletics/grapple checks, reckless+sneak attack for guaranteed damage, resistance+uncanny dodge for 1/4 damage, cunning action to grapple/dash or as a thief sleight of hands items/weapons from grappled opponents, etc.
You are walking “Hold Monster”
Been doing a lot of fun combat stuff in Pathfinder using this similar philosophy. You can really stretch a lot out of a round in both 5e and Pathfinder if you're smart and creative
He is right about oozes. Waterdeep: Dragon Heist has oozes. ALWAYS CARRY BACKUP WEAPONS.
I've now upgraded my Armorer Artificer watching this. Having a returning javelin that also is a magical weapon is something I'd seriously want to talk to my DM about: Lightning returning javelin for the win!!
Love a returning lighting javelins but you can't do that with an Artificier as the infusions only work on Non Magical stuff. So you can make an mundane Javelins Return each turn, not a Lightning one.
HOWEVER, if you are a Eldritch knight, then you can weapon bond the Lighting Javelins and fire them off before calling them back.
Fantastic stuff man
If the DM starts Doorway doging you get up and flip the table lol. Mind you I am normaly the DM.
My paladin is mainly a sword and board melle character: with guiding bolt and javalins as a ranged dammage options, but now I'm thinking maybe I should get him a heavy crossbow and halbred/glave too.
Eldritch Knight + Dual Wielder Feat = "Sword, Trick, Sword, Trick, Sword, Trick, Gunslinger, Royal Guard."
Pair this with Interaction, Drop Item(s), Weapon Bond, and Item Action... It makes swapping weapons, fast.
I love this clip because it is literally using common sense inside roling
If your DM starts doorway dodging, send in the Barbarian 🤙
I have a Bugbear Barbarian that has a +4 in Strength and Dexterity (currently 4th level) that is a beast in melee and ranged combat. I use a pike so I basically have 15 foot melee, and grabbed Tasha's Piercer feat at 4th level so I can reroll low damage once a turn and add dice whenever I crit. This feat also translates well into my longbow attacks. Also, my high Dex and ranged weapons make it very easy for me to activate my bugbear's surprise attack damage for even higher damage. My Totem subclass gave me the bear of near invincibility and I'm looking to snag the Eagle next so I can really become an eagle eyed archer. I've considered multi-classing, but I'm afraid that my DM would not tolerate me becoming deadlier than I already am.
Despite being kinda OP, he has done a good job not being the center of attention for the group or make combat too trivial. Our group even learned to utilize my bugbear's boogieman tactics to wipe out as many weaklings as we can so we can fight the big bads with full strength. DM even allowed me to have a pet wolf so that I have something else to do during my turn because those turns were too short. This also led the DM to be a bit more confident at throwing hordes of tougher enemies at us because we can clearly take care of them without needing a short or long rest after every fight. Over all, we have been having a ton of fun.
"Why else would you watch optimization videos?"
Huh. I feel attacked. Good question. But attacked.
My battlemaster fighter always carries three weapons a glaive,long sword and a crossbow a weapon for every situation.
Using a familiar as a budget Careful Spell on hypnotic pattern is an unambiguously great idea. That’s it, that’s the comment.