Don't ban Silvery Barbs! - D&D 5E Advanced guide to Silvery Barbs
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 11 дек 2024
- This video was gutted twice, I spent 3 long nights making huges changes to this video but I'm happy with it now. This is a super complecated spell, it isn't easy but its super interesting.
Link to discord, patreon and twitter:
www.patreon.co....
/ discord
/ pack_tacticss
Tabletop builds, Daniel's article:
tabletopbuilds...
Artists who have helped me with making videos:
/ drakeven1
/ flufle
/ mrako_bulka
/ @novatonix
Other videos I enjoyed:
Treantmonk: • Silvery Barbs: Should ...
Winter Wyvern: • Why Silvery Barbs is t...
Fryminis: • New Spells - Strixhave...
Fry would actually not get the ability to choose if he wants to go before or after Gator, that would be Kobolds choice. It would still work out the same way if Kobold succeeds on all the rolls though, but for more details check out: tabletopbuilds.com/spell-spotlight-silvery-barbs/#How_does_it_work_with_sequential_castings
At 8:07 I meant that it is obvious that it is good to cast for AoEs, not that the math is obvious. You can check out the details on the math if you want, but its pretty complicated.
I know I made some contradictions in the video, there was a bit in the video that was completely cut but basically chances are incredibly low that this spell will be a problem. So I say allow it. Don't ban it.
But Kobold, what if I wanted to spend my Silvery Barbs on NFTs and MLMs? D:
Wouldn't that be a better investment, compared to spending Silvery Barbs on melee characters? D:
I love this spell! I see no reason to ban it. It just needs clarification.
The one thing that you might want to cover for skill checks relates specifically to Illusion spells; most of which require an INT: Investigation check to bypass.
But as writtten SIlvery Barbs doesn't allow you to choose what the Advantage goes to. Just the Next Roll. So you can't use it to boost your Concentration after casting (7:15 )
@@relrosner You can if the timing is right.
Honestly, a martial subclass book is needed, especially since everytime martials got an upgrade, casters got an comparable or even greater upgrade (Echo Knight - Chronomancy as the most extreme example)
Echo knight is the most broken fighter subclass imo, But it's CR content. Matt Mercer has a habbit to make his content overtuned.
A book with new rules wold be awesome, even more since casters can use a spell to make whatever martials can but ko one thought that the guys who work their bodies in a magical word would learn to addapt to fight against spells naturally so they woudnt be oneshotted by a caster
Just having extra spells doesn't mean that casters suddenly became op. It's still a drain on resources, and a wizard picking up silvery barbs has to sacrifice another spell in order to get it.
As a 1st level wizard you can prepare 4 spells. If you choose to prepare featherfall, shield, silvery barbs and sleep, you won't be able to have burning hands prepared as well.
As a fighter however, echo knights' ability is always active. Furthermore, with access to the new fighting styles, new tactics have been unlocked for martials.
And at the end of the day, martials out damage casters. When a 9th level wizard uses disintegrate with their only 5th level slot, they deal an average of 75 damage on a failed save.
When a 5th level echo knight with greatsword and gwm uses his echo for flanking, than uses action surge and unleash incarnation (twice), he can make 6 attacks that deal an average of 20 damage each, for a total of 120 damage.
I think the bigger problem with martials is that they’re balanced around a short rest cycle, while casters are balanced around a long rest cycle. As a GM, you need to run 3-4 short rests per long rest to make martials feel good, and very few tables work that way.
In other words, martial classes and casters are designed for different games, and subclasses can’t really fix that problem.
@@Olav_Hansen you don’t gain flanking or pact tactics with the echo since it’s a object unless you got a dm who allows it.
The verbal component of this spell is just your character screaming "YOU DIDN'T WIN! FUCK YOU, YOU DIDN'T WIN!"
"I CAN DO THIS
I CAN DO THIS ANYTIME I WANT
THIS MEANS NOTHING TO ME
YOU MEAN NOTHING TO ME
I HATE YOU
I HATE YOU
THIS IS MY BIG FUCKING THING!"
"Oh my god he's fucking losing it."
Nuh uh
😂😂😂
'Wither and Bloom' seems like a complete Ranger spell, but no. It goes to Druid, Sorcerer and for some reason Wizard. Ranger seems to get completely forgotten about in recent books, no clue why
It's a spell for Necromancer Wizard's subclass ability.
I mean Wither and Bloom is from a college that teaches magic, be weird if wizard didnt.
I still think rime's binding ice should have also been a druid spell
@@summermermaidstar756 I'm sorry, but by that logic Wizard should know every spell in the game, since they're all magic spells. Some things are written with specific casters in mind, and 'Wither and Bloom' being a healing/plant spell makes it feel like it was designed for Druids and Rangers
@@phlojem285 I meant as in it be weird if wizard couldn't learn the spell. But pretty much anyone can get the spell anyways if they study at strixhaven
I feel like an ability like this would be super cool on a martial class. Something like if a barbarian lets out an intimidating scream to rattle an opponent and inspire an ally simultaneously. Martials deserve more love!
100% agreed. This didn’t need to be a spell.
Yes, more non caster powers please.
The unfortunate problem is there's only so much you can fit in a class. Every single spell a caster has is almost equivalent to yet another class feature and there's literally no way for martials to keep up with that. What does a martial get outside of it's class features? it has to make do with whatever the basic rules are and whatever bs their dm allows them to get away with. There are two editions in which they could keep up with that, being 3.5 with tome of battle, and the dreaded 4th edition. Due to the nature of wanting to keep 5e simple, it's just not gonna happen, as much as I'd love a tome of battle for 5e. Once per encounter bonus abilities that add just that little more tactical depth would go a long way.
Increasing martial power is unnecessary, echo knight *is* a huge power bump thanks to those free attacks for super burst damage, but what it really provides is new things to do, new decisions to make, new options for a fighter. What tactical options do most martials have? Grapple and shove don't work against a lot of monsters in the game, most DMs don't allow flanking, and even then that only gives advantage, which isn't very interesting. There are some interesting optional rules, climbing onto bigger creatures, disarming (why is disarming an optional rule without battle master??) and tumbling/forcing your way through other people's squares. These are really cool! but because they're variant rules a large swathe of dms just won't let you do it. A lot of people feel that fighters should get maneuvers by base, but man, I feel all martials should get maneuvers, and just flesh out the maneuvers system with more options, and class specific options. Oh, yeah, and get rid of sharp shooter and great weapon master and make a feat that works for all weapon types instead of forcing people into specific niches if they want to actually deal damage.
@@Dieonceperday I agree with a lot of what you say, couple of bits I'd like to add.
Echo Knight powers are great, but like most subclasses it's very front loaded, so incentivises a 3 level dip. This is quite prevalent and I'd like to see increasingly powerful abilities in subclasses, really good powers at 7th, 9th, 13th would help a lot.
I also think spellcasters should be less good once their spells run out. The amount of amazing and versatile cantrips is really silly.
The Rune Knight kinda does with the storm rune.
I appreciate you stating that you should use this with other people’s spells. That is key. It also transfers over to the attack rolls part. it’s something that’s lost in the shield or absorb elements comparison. You can’t cast shield or absorb elements on an ally. But you can make an ally harder to hit with barbs. Especially since Wizards, sorcerers, and bards are less likely to be the tank.
You can shield or absorb elements on an ally with magic items. It’s much safer than silver barb an ally and watch the glint in the gms eye as the blade singers finally have no armor class and the monsters swarm them.
If you have the feats... Warcaster, Sentinel, and Mage Slayer... For any caster or sub caster class.
You don't need Slivery Bard in order to protect your allies unless they are far away from you.
You can even the Feat: Telekinetic in order to safely shove your allies away from the enemies Opportunity Attack. (Human Variant will make this easier.)
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 3 feats is a bit more of an investment than a first level spell
@@feelmypuddle4963
True... Especially for multiclassing.
I think you missed a part of the math. While you are completely correct that it just forces a reroll after a success, meaning the chance to succeed is the same as the first time around, it would have been helpful to state the general chance for a spell with saving throws to hit when you _know_ you can force a reroll with silvery barbs.
Let’s say that your 7th level party of 5 is fighting a Pit Fiend and you decide to cast Banishment. The Pit fiend has a 12.25% chance to fail the save and be banished back to the 9 hells. If you are prepared to cast Silvery Barbs to augment the outcome it instead has a 42.25% chance to fail, and if your entire party of 5 is prepared to cast Silvery Barbs then the Pit Fiend has a 92.46% chance to fail. It’s true that each *individual* roll will have the same odds as the last but taken together prior to rolling, multiple successes in a row become less and less likely for each success required. Sure you can make a DC 15 save but can you make 6 DC 15 saves in a row?
There is a huge difference between a (Wildemount) subclass that can force a reroll twice per long rest and a first level spell available to anyone who wants to take a half feat that can be used multiple times on the same roll. It’s already a very effective tactic to throw a shutdown spell onto a boss monster, but proper use of Silvery Barbs makes it nearly impossible for the boss monster to escape the effect. The reason this spell is unhealthy for the game is that it leads to “either the monster has Legendary Resistance or we can throw it right in the dumpster on turn 1”. I’m not sure why the thesis of this video is that the spell is balanced and shouldn’t be banned?
The spell scaling on barbs is bonkers. In early play making something reroll a save on a level 2 spell is not game breaking. It is though when your party gets higher. When this 1st level spell is mechanically the same as recasting a full action spell with only a level 1 slot and a reaction getting you 2 full action spells in one turn effectively and it is doing so for spells like power word kill, feeblemind, time ravage, phase shift, disintegrate, etc etc etc is when it is OP. Sometimes even the reaction cost is nothing if you know that in the initiative order you will go again before the bad guys when you barbs something on another players spell.
It also leads to some really bad situations where it is not fun for the players if you let some bad guys have the spell which you should if the players can have the spell. Attack the BBEG wizard and 4 apprentices who all can cast silvery barbs and make sure no one is making their save vs what the boss tosses out....... Looks like none of you made your save so you each take 72 bludgeoning and 71 fire from the meteor swarm Archmage Barbie McSilvery just tossed at you with all the apprentices doing silvery barbs against the saves. Her eyes light up in the fiery brilliance of the devastation she has wrought upon you all.
It's "repeated rolls" portion dies not stack. The target is under the effect of Silvery Barbs for one ability check. Casting it multiple times does NOT make them roll more dice.
Reasoning: If you have 2 casts of Bless on your character, you still only roll 1d4 as has been explained in Sage Advice. If the logic of stacking rerolls for Silvery Barbs holds true, then having multiple casts of Bless on a character at once would let them roll that many d4s and take the best result.
@@theodorehunter4765 They save you cast barbs they succeed again someone else casts they succeed again someone else casts rinse repeat, Silvery barbs is instantaneous and thus once they reroll they are no longer under the effect of anything and since they succeeded the save it triggers for someone else to barb them has occurred.
@@theodorehunter4765
Silvery Barbs effect is "Instantaneous," Bless has a duration. You are correct though that the advantage you bestow on another creature (the second half of the spell) doesn't stack.
RAW your party can force the BBEG to make multiple saves on the same initial spell if they don't have legendary resistance. Conversely, the BBEG's minions can force you to make multiple saves on same initial spell. And considering their are usually more minions than players...
CR 1/4 Casters (technically) received a huge "power bump" when grouped with a higher level caster/monster. They can both protect the higher CR creature while simultaneously granting it (and their allies) advantage each turn. An encounter that was normally Medium now becomes Deadly by adding a level 1 reaction spell. I like the spell but there is just too many negatives.
@@adarian The target doesn't "succeed again". The target already succeeded the roll. The spell just makes them reroll, potentially changing the success into a failure.
You would not be able to have another player cast it again, as the instantaneous event that allowed the reaction is now over. You can't target the reroll as the reroll is not in and of itself an Attack Roll, Saving Throw, or Ability Check. It's just a flat d20 roll that replaces the roll in an Attack Roll, Saving Throw, or Ability Check.
If multiple players cast it on the same check, then the target is under the effects of the spell from multiple sources concurrently, which means it only is effected by one occurrence of the spell.
Now, given the last example, you could grant multiple other targets Advantage, but that would be the only benefit.
It doesn't jump back to a 65% success rate because you get to know whether it succeeds or fails before choosing to cast the spell. The 42% chance to hit with disadvantage granted by the dodge action is multiplied by the base 65% chance from the forced reroll: (.42*.65) for a 27.3% chance to succeed. A wyvern has to first succeed a 42% chance then CONSECUTIVELY succeed on a 65% chance roll, which is where you get the 27.3% total success rate from. The 42% chance doesn't magically disappear!
That is the thought I had. I feels like the creator is deliberately trying to deceive his audience. Because I find it hard to believe he would not have thought of that.
You touched on the main issue with silvery barbs. It makes casters even stronger against martial classes or martial Monsters. It breaks even more the balance between classes and roles
Which makes me really not get why it shouldn't be banned. Everything in the Strixhaven book other than Owlkin is practically only fair to use if it's actually in a high-magic caster only campaign. The house feats would replace Magic Initiate in almost all builds for example.
@@Thrashlock I mean just dont use it then. I mean you guys act like there was at all a balance between casters and martials and that is just not true. But do whatever you like if you want to limit the wizard to just cantrips for 20 levels do that if you want.
Then the DM is playing the martial characters wrong.
Re. Martials: As a certified old man in gaming, I find it hilarious that 4e was so hated, when I saw the main design goal of it as balancing the linear/quadratic issue with martials/casters, and here we’re back to dealing with that imbalance in 5e.
I am well aware of all the other issues people had with 4e, but oh boy did that baby go out with that bathwater!
A looot of optimiser I know are just going back to 4e.
The biggest complaint I heard about 4e at my table, back in the day, was that somehow it "cut all the role play out". I really don't understand how that works, since RP is something I think of as largely outside the ruleset, and it included the extensive skill test system dedicating more space than most editions to non-combat advancement and resolution of encounters.
I do think 5e is the best edition _for the game as a whole_ in my lifetime, bringing so many people in to the hobby, and I really appreciate it in that respect for its simplicity and approachability. Rules wise, I don't think it's much of a wonder.
PS - Merry Christmas!
@@Nikotheos Me and my friends, we are big roleplayers but we don't think 5e is a roleplay system at all. Theres very few rules for it. Like 95% of the rules is just fighting pretty much. I've never played 4e But when I hear 4e stories with "cut out all the roleplay and the system feels like a videogame" I wonder if they've read 5e. I really do because I find a claim like that very stupid. Thank you very much Merry Christmas and have a happy new year!
One complaint I saw during the run of 4e was that Chaotic Neutral was removed. A person I know literally would not play because that alignment was not there. Strangest thing.
@@branwolf8616 Okay, that's just funny!
They did try to experiment with alignment in 4e, introduced "unaligned" as the default alignment, and when you chose one it meant you were actually taking a stand for some faction in the planar situation, akin to the Planescape setting.
My party and I were discussing the same thing yesterday that there should be a martial focused book released. Almost every party member is picking full casters for new campaigns or one shots at this point. And even when folks go martial they’re usually dumping strength because dexterity gives you so much more.
Even for barbarian dex is still better to use for your attacking stat especially for small creatures since the best you'll have is d8 weapons anyways might as well mechanically show that you're very nimble
@BlackMage I agree with a lot of that, but by only doing that you're just making dex-favoured martials more MAD, Rangers in particular would suffer I think. Feat options for Dex-to-damage would help (possibly tied into the damage-type feats) and adding in composite bows would help even out the bow/crossbow disparity.
If you're taking stuff from 3.5e, I'd grab the spell attack rolls too. Ranged spell attacks use Dex to hit, melee spell attacks use Str to hit (Dex would work too in this context though I suppose). Make casters a little more MAD to compensate.
5e really screwed ability score balance. It feels weird for Int to be such an easy dump-stat for so many classes.
@@agilemind6241 Those magic items make STR even more dumpable, especially if your DM goes with the “If you start at level three you get one uncommon magic item” rule since you can pick up the gauntlets of ogre power and turn that 8 you put into strength into a 19.
@@agilemind6241 small damage bonus that could easily be simulated by a one level dip in fighter for Dueling fighting style and an ability that will actively get your character killed, I think I'm fine with my 22 AC and amazing dex saves thank you
Bruh rapier dex based fighters are awsome
Same thing I said on Treantmonk's video: If this spell did NOTHING but force rerolls on saving throws it would still be S-tier. That is the functional equivalent of using a reaction and a 1st level slot to RECAST your high level save-or-suck spell when it gets saved. Sticking a debilitating spell on the primary enemy and ending the encounter was already the optimal way to play, now it's significantly stronger.
Its basically Chronal Shift on a stick, which is arguably the best or second-best Wizard feature in the game, but now is a first level spell instead of being limited to 2/long rest.
Wah my players have more options I have to think about Wah Wah
Wah Wah my only plan to slow down my players strong character is for my monster to succeed all of his saves because I don't plan well Wah Wah Wah
Wah
@@justinstreet1254 Wah wah I lack critical thinking skills so I make dumb comments in response to points I don't like wah wah
@BlackMage same on the increase to 3rd level. Didn't change how the spell works though. Is it still powerful for a 3rd level spell? Sure. Is it more powerful than say hypnotic pattern, dispel magic or counterspell? I wouldn't say so.
@@haerdalis84 The spell scales with whatever you are trying to make fail or succeed. I would hate to cast it at third level if that was my highest spellslot. But think of silvery barbs as gaining dm inspiration while converting whatever spell slot you used to cast it into a second casting of a higher level spell.
@@LunaLuckyLight would you hate to cast counterspell with your only 3rd level spell slot? Same situation.
Well, if I cast a high lvl save or DIE spell on you, I have to spend a spell slot. That’s the risk you’d take, wasting a turn and spell slot if they save. That’s the risk. However Slivery Barbs eliminates a lot of that risk. It is insurance. So you are basically casting that spell again as a lvl 1 slot.
It’s definitely not a fun spell to be used against the players. Like Counterspell.
It's REALLY good against creatures with Magic Resistance so let's say they have a 0.50 (50%) success chance on a single roll so with advantage they have a 0.75 chance of making the save. BUT barbs means on a success they "must reroll the d20 and use the lower roll." So that's 0.5 on top of the 0.75 chance so a .375 success chance. It's not quite as bad as simply rolling with disadvantage (0.25 chance) but it's way better than simply adding imposing disadvantage on top of their advantage as Adv+Disadv cancel out for a straight roll.
I think the impact of this spell for enemies to use is missing from the conclusion. The little casting enemies silvery barbing players spells is a lot easier to pull off than counter spells since it's a level 1 vs level 3 spell. I think early game it's not super impactful but medium levels it's going to be super versitile and oppressive.
So one spell in the game?
@@Treblaine in a recent sage advice it was made clear that silvery barbs doesn’t work with legendary resistance
@@ronben-ezer8373 magic resistance not legendary resistance.
Creatures with magic resistance have adv on saving throws against your magic.
But that ability doesn't work when you force them to re-roll with silvery barbs.
So a lot of mid tier creatures are suddenly a lot more susceptible to save or suck spells that can shut down an encounter.
The problem with silvery barbs is that it just gets better as casters get along. Being lvl 1 the slots become less and less expensive, and shield becomes relatively weaker since your AC is not going to be up to snuff even with a +5. It's stuff like hitting lvl 7 and getting a second chance on the one banishment or polymorph you get per long rest that makes the spell so amazing. It goes from good to have at lvl 1 for crits or attack rolls too high for shield to incredibly powerful once you get access to the real save or suck spells, but still well before lvl 10.
Dungeon Dudes actually made a surprisingly great argument why this spell should have never seen print (unintentionally? I am not sure) near the end of their analysis. They came to the same general conclusion: Once you reach level 5+ (tier 2) and "save or suck" spells become readily available this spell breaks combat (on both sides).
Silvery Barbs is amazing and your wyvern is a big scary monster Dispite what gator says: )
RAAAWWWWWRRRRRR!!!!
I would LOVE to see a 5e reprint of the Tome of Battle aka the Book of Nine Swords, if we're advocating for more martial books. x'D
That would be pretty sick.
ToB style maneuvers means that there's room to boost existing martials when new books come out. If I wanted to make a Lore Bard a bit better, I can pick up Silvery Barbs as a spell and I'd only miss out on another spell that perhaps was low value to begin with. If I want something better for like a Battlemaster, I'd have to give up the subclass if I want the Echo Knight stuff.
The difficulty in adding expansions to martial classes is that there's currently no way of expanding them across the board within the current design space. The only way to give them something new is to add feats, which are optional to begin with and can be taken by casters. Archetypes only affect one class and do not change existing subclasses in any way.
I would like there to be more to weapons. Like, being proficient in martial weapons (or at least weapon types) inherently gives you something special you can do with respective martial weapons. This gives the different weapons a bit more mechanical differences, and gives martial weapon proficiency something a bit more exciting than a slightly bigger damage die.
Thank you. Also yes we need martial options/buffs.
Especially grappling and restrained.
Why cant martials restrain casters and prevent somatic components. Or muzzle them with their gigantic mitts.
Goblins leap from behind cover and grab at you from behind. Roll initiative. The Goblins' primary goal, in suprise round, is to disrupt any PC from spell casting. They are using soiled rags like a garrotte to cover and fill the PCs' mouths. The smell is awful and tastes even worse 🤢🤮
Martials can't prevent casters from casting with grapples because this isn't 3.5. ;)
@@renatocorvaro6924 boo, options are options. Give us something to use strength saving throws and inconvenience the high AC enemies.
@@renatocorvaro6924 depending on how fast and loose your DM uses "improvising an action" you might be able to do that.
@@agilemind6241 I'd counter that after second level there is literally no way to pin down a caster like a martial. Also the serious threat of being grappled and restrained by a monster just to poof away next turn before a heavy bite can be placed means casters are basically playing a different game.
Also DM's should only rarely use monsters that are direct counters to players. Players VS DM's is a shitty way to play.
Also I'm not arguing for basic grapples to shut down casting I'm talking restrained. Grapple just stops movement but restrained weakens martials it should at least inconvenience the casters. Something only a handful of monsters can do and those who take the grappler feat.
Remember when people were talking about banning lucky, good times.
I really don't know wotc were thinking giving a buffed version of a subclass feature as a 1st level spell. Same with Hexblade at lv1 being better than Champion and Eldritch Knight at their own features at lv3.
Subclass features are meant to be that special thing that only you can do or do it the best.
Silvery Barbs main problem is not attack rolls, though negating crits is very strong. Its ability to effectively cast spells like banishment a second time for the price of a reaction and a first level spell slot. that is just too much. this would be a very good 3rd level spell if it could ONLY do that specific thing alone. I think this makes the game less fun, because the DM has to counter that powercreep somehow with more enemies (longer battles), more casters (much less predicable battles, higher chance of TPK) and/or specifically enemies who also have this spell, and being the target of a double banishment, or your crit being negated, is certainly no fun for the players.
DM doesn't have to "counter" anything. That's not what DM should do.
@@honestbenny That’s their job. If a game is too easy, no one is having fun.
@@aaronbold8715 That doesn't mean you have to actively "counter" something. You can make encounter harder without getting into Arms Race. More enemies, more CR etc. If you actively try to counter some tech of one player - you are doing it wrong.
@@honestbenny No, this is quite normal. You have to very carefully adjust encounters to challenge your players. Especially at higher levels. If you’re not taking your players abilities into account when making a campaign setting or encounter, you sir, are doing “it” wrong.
Adamantine armor has always negated crits.
I'm glad to see you campaigning for martial buffs. Great video as always!
I buff Sharpshooter and Great Weapon Master by automatically applying the +10 damage if they'd have still hit with the -5 attack penalty (i.e. when the attack beats their AC by 4 or when they crit). I also let Barbarians recover rages on a short rest.
Hot take: if the dm has to find a specific way to counter a low level spell, it's 100% broken
Why does the dm need to find a way to counter it?
@@DBArtsCreators No its not, also 5-8 encounters per adventuring day, they shouldnt even be a problem in the first place, you just find anything inconvenient broken.
@@DBArtsCreators Hey im not following the rules as per the DMG so im going to ban things that were made balanced thinking exactly about those rules, instead of doing exactly what the book sugest i should be doing, its almost like the fact you are letting your player take a long rest PER SESSION its the problem.
@@DBArtsCreators If the player is enjoying it it’s not wasting time, I hate that people think dnd needs to be balanced. I just like to have fun with friends.
@@DBArtsCreators Who said anything about it being one player?
You are assuming that it would ruin everyones experience, when the spell can be used to help your team succeed at using spells that would otherwise fail.
Martials need a full rework. They are just too boring now. My suggestion - give Battlemaster's maneuvers to all martial classes. Pure martials (Fighter, Barbarian, Monk) would get more, half-casters and maybe Rogues (they get too much value out of skills) - less. Some class-specific maneuvers can also be added, and some maneuvers would be unlocked or upgraded with level. In other words, give martial classes spells without actually calling them spells. I believe it would work great. Too bad it's too late to implement something like this. It's probably too big of a change even for the 5.5 edition.
What I do for my games is allow Martials to use the Optional Action Options presented in the DMG along with those from the third party supplement "5th Edition Options” by Total Party Kill Games, to bring them more in line with the power of Casters.
I've played a 5e subsystem that did that, and while every class now has deep options, it mostly removed class identity from the classes who adopted it. Barbarians turned into "Fighters that can rage", Rangers turned into "Fighters with a few exploration buffs" and Monks got the better result, since it was a system exclusive to them, but it still fills a bit of "Fighter, but with punches"
@@Specter053 Isn't it how it is now? What really is that different between Barbarian and Fighter? One can Rage, the other has more options. Their current abilities won't go anywhere, or at least they aren't supposed to by my proposal. It would slightly invalidate half-casters, true, but I think buffing Fighters and Barbarians is worth it.
Plus, if you are that concerned about class identity, just make most maneuver options unique to some classes. Same as with spells. Barbarians, for example, would have several empowered attacks that just do more damage in different ways (and maybe one or two conditions like frightening) but they won't have any "tricky" stuff. Rangers would have advanced ranged and finesse options. Paladins would have more of defense and protection. Even if you cut all the maneuver pool in parts and give ~5 unique abilities to each class, it would still be better than what we have now.
"Now."
Like that hasn't been the case since OD&D.
They're even hopelessly outclassed at the things they're supposed to be good at, which is damage and durability. Conjure Animals, Tiny Servant + Magic Stone and of course Fireball do a lot more for clearing out enemies, with the first two even having various utility applications (some Conjure Animal options can be ridden, they can walk into traps to trigger them remotely, bodyblock... and Tiny Servants can fulfill many of the noncombat utility things the animals can as well). Spirit Guardians is not only solid damage against groups it's also decent control.
Martials as tanks aren't just unable to protect the backline, they are outright too frail and have too many gaps in their defenses to function as a tank even if they could. (Paladins are an exception because Aura of Protection makes them harder to disable as well as their nearby allies)
I honestly really like silvery barbs concept, of being able to basically flash bang someone, however in my games I might change the spell to only having a 30ft range to mainly protect the user from melee attacks and not be able to harm enemies chance to hit on their entire party, only most of them. and not being able to snip people after shooting them from outside of an enemies range of movement and then just pulling a sentinal+polearm master, it also gives it the same range as chronal shift
if you use silvery barbs for attack rolls, you're using it wrong.
I agree with the martial classes.
They started out with maneuver dice but then it just stopped after that.
I was expecting more interesting things after battle master, but here we are, even echo knight was not part of the team, that was Matt coming in with a Setting book.
They did UA with other martial classes having maneuvers and people said it was just copping Battle master, sort of but also that is sort of crap, a spell can be cast by multiple classes multiple ways and no one says anything about that, also you might as well say all 1/2 and 1/3 casters and copying the casters.
Who are the these people giving this feedback?
Martials have to be completely bespoke and have no wider options?
Man what a bad route they took from that feed back.
Every class honestly needs *some* kind of customization, although it's quite cumbersome when you have classes like Wizard who have a subclass for every fucking spell school in the PHB. But something *similar* to the level offered by Battlemaster Maneuvers and by Eldritch Invocations would be nice. It would probably have helped out Monk if they had at least half a dozen or so options for various level-up breakpoints with spending their ki.
@@AnaseSkyrider I'd recommend checking out the Tome of Might. It's my favorite homebrew for introducing some fun diversity to martial classes.
@@cogsworther1639 Did you mean Tome of Heroes?
Silvery barbs is so good, you could make it a defining class feature for a completely new class.
Same could be said for many spells
It basically was with the Chronurgy Wizard.
@@joshuahitchins1897 Wizards complaining that they lost one feature of one good subclass to Sorcerers who straight up lost their unique feature (Spontaneous Casting) to every single caster in the game.
@@cattiston374 I'm all for Sorcerers being the metamagic casters rather than the spontaneous casters.
@@joshuahitchins1897 Not sure why I responded so late butttttttt
It would be nice if you know, they didn’t suffer from the Monk Treatment lol ( Low Resource + All features feeding from the same)
Granted is not as bad since Spells are much more impactful but still, you either have a Sorcerer who uses their points for a mediocre Arcane Recovery at low levels, or constantly burn spell slots for metamagic and having low spells overall.
Hell I think the worst problem overall is how sorcerers only get 2 Metamagic through their whole career! Really 1 because Twin is so good it’s justified for any kind of build.
Honestly a favorite homebrew I saw was giving unique spells for the sorcerer that had benefits when using Metamagic, including one that instead of Counterspell, you gave advantage to everyone affected by the spell and you gained Sorcery Points by “absorbing” the spell, would be pretty nice.
Considering that Wizards have the dichotomy of all unique spells.
Including, your honor…
Steel Wind Strike. I rest my case.
Because unlike Silvery Barb (Bards finally have a sorta decent defensive spell and Sorcerers a powerful spells) Wizards have NO reason to have this spell, considering they also get the ender of all encounters in that same level, Wall Of Force 😂
Caster mains: [gets a 1st level spell that changes the game and makes you rethink action economy]
Us martial mains: *JUST A CRUMB OF CONTENT PLS*
My favorite use case for silvery barbs is playing an order domain cleric, taking it with fey touched, and giving the advantage to a rogue. Because I target the rogue with a spell, Order domain’s Voice of Authority lets the rogue attack instantly at advantage. Free sneak attack!
The silvery barbs roll is an independent event, but it's still another event, so the chance to hit with the second roll is actually 45% * 45% which is only 20%. You're reducing a chance to hit of 45% to 20% with a lvl1 spell slot + your reaction. That's pretty good IMO. If you use it only for crits, you're basically reducing a chance of a crit from 1/20 to 1/400. That's massive...
The thing with martials is it's so much easier to give new spells to casters then it is to boost martials. With magic you can run wild with your imagination and the balancing is easy because it takes resources to use.
What I would do to give martials a boost is focus on broadening their abilities, don't got to make them op just effective and fun to use. First, I'd let Barbarians can build their rage through damage taken, they keep their limit that they can activate at will but now they have a different way to start it for free, possibly with options for damage done to allies in close proximity to also count towards that counter depending on balancing. In addition, barbarians can activate multiple rages and their effects stack but you'd only be able to activate one rage a turn so you'd need to keep your rage for a full round and it would be a slow build up as the fight went on.
Additionally if a barbarian goes down they have a better chance at getting back up, say for example an 8 and up is a successful death save and a 19 counts as a crit. And upon getting back up, either on their own or with help they may immediately fly into a rage.
The cost to all this would be that upon the end of combat, adrenaline crash. If more then one rage was used in a minute Roll a con save, the number of rages used in combat determines the save requirement. Barbarians usually have good saves so they should be fine, but if they fail they pass out and cannot be woken with the exception of greater restoration for 1 hour and gain one exhaustion point. On a success for the next ten minutes or an hour the barbarian in question will have their speed reduced by 10 and any new activations of rage in that time will immediately trigger this save again.
As the fight go's on, the barbarian would be nearly the opposite of a caster as it should be, casters during a fight or fights lose more and more spell slots becoming more limited in their capabilities. Whereas a barbarian would become more and more dangerous the longer a fight is prolonged. It'd really make just targeting the casters a mistake.
This is probably unbalanced as a giraffe doing a headstand but with a lot of tweaking some version of this could work. Probably would need to make it a lot weaker.
Also if they get to the point of being able to trigger infinite rages that probably breaks things but at that point you're level twenty and if your character isn't completely busted by that stage then you're under powered. Wizards can wish gods out of existence, being angry enough to rip buildings and trees out of the ground and throw them at people is hardly going to be the most disruptive thing.
Something more on the subtle end for barbs is if attacked by a melee attack (success or fail it doesn't matter), they can choose to spend their reaction and to clench their muscles and "catch" the weapon, forcing the enemy to do a strength check try get it back. If an enemy fails to retrieve it before your turn you may give up halve your movement for the round to do a strength check yourself to break the weapon.
"In the right hands"
For fighters, they are the embodiment of versatility so something playing on that would be good.
A fighter may switch between any of their weapons between attacks. So first attack is with a warhammer, second is with a nearby chair, followed up by a shot to the throat with a hidden crossbow and finally a bash to the face with a shield.
A fighter should be able to use any weapon on them or near them at any time, no action to switch between them. It should never be, "I swing my sword at the guy twice, then I use my action surge to swing my sword at him twice again." Anything a fighter holds is a weapon completely capable of killing a schmuck and they should be competent enough to use them at will and as they please.
In addition they know how their armor is supposed to be used, and may as a reaction a number of times equal to their proficiency bonus when they are attacked by an enemy they can see make a roll against what their attacker rolled to hit them, if the fighter matches their roll or beats it they take half damage from the attack as they move so their armor takes most of the blow. Does not work on blunt type damage and is restored on a long or short rest.
Rangers and rouges get the ability to dodge roll, if they move less then their maximum move speed they can use a reaction to roll away from an attack if used before the attack has been confirmed as a hit. The ranger or rogue may roll half the distance they had left as available movement and if they get out of the attackers reach the attack is always considered to have missed. If there are hazards on the ground in the path they roll over they will trigger those hazards.
Rouges may use an action to play dead, dropping to the ground. Upon being targeted for an attack (or it becomes their turn again) they may interrupt and attack first as if it was a surprise round. Will not work against the same enemy twice.
Monks may enchant their fists, monk's can use their feet to make attacks instead of their fists, may call shots before rolling to at a raised difficulty to hit for increased damage.
I'm out of steam for this little joke, but the best martial classes will ever get is maybe new weapons and classes as subclasses because they will never increase their power as a whole. Look at ranger, it was so incredibly shit that everyone complained and it took ages to make it barely passable as mediocre.
If there's anything I miss the most from 3.5e/PF, It's martials getting things. ToB Maneuvers; Natural Weapons, Flurry of Blows, and TWF enabling extra attacks; pretty much any feat that keyed off of Combat Expertise/Reflexes (Improved Trip/Feint/Disarm/Grapple/etc). If all martials are gonna do has to be through the attack action, let them break the action economy more. Those rules and feat chains absolutely needed clean up to work, but they're not bad as base concepts. To me that's what combat styles should be doing.
Basically anything Dreamscarred Press revamped for Pathfinder was a massive hit for me. Spheres of Power/Magic were fine too, but I found them a bit fiddly at times.
I think the best way to put it is hybrid martials like Cryptic, Alchemist, Magus, Totemist or Factotum did more than one thing, still did THEIR thing well, and many of those still got significant utility out of their spellcasting. Hell I even liked Truenamer as a concept and that was an objectively terrible class. But it did things no other class really could do.
5.e Rogue's hard to fix too. It's clear what it wants to do, but man does it ever need help doing those things.
@@agilemind6241 Ah but spell casters get feats and magic weapons too, arguably they have better ones with a bunch of magic items being restricted to certain spell casters where as there are very very few magic items that are restricted to being used by any martial class. At least none I can remember off the top of my head.
And if you end up only giving martial classes magic items then the casters will feel ripped off and unfairly scrutinised against.
Plus there are very few magic items a caster couldn't use pretty effectively. That vorpal greatsword? Tie it to a stick and use Animate objects on the stick, have it attack the enemies on it's own.
Belt of fire giant's strength?
Give that shit to a familiar, now you've got an owl that with a second level enlarge/reduce can grapple pretty much any medium sized creature.
Pretty useful on it's own, then you could probably have them fly up and drop the poor dude.
But all of this is missing the point, the problem is martial classes lack the options to be creative or lack options from what to do. Martial classes can be plenty powerful, but if every turn is "I hit the dude three times" that really isn't very engaging.
@@agilemind6241 I come from the future to say that calling rogues best damage dealers is something only a person who never ran a DPR calculator could say
"With magic you can run wild with your imagination and the balancing is easy because it takes resources to use."
I think this premise is so fundamentally false it is hard to describe. Let's demonstrate it by absurd: imagine if a 9th spell gave you the ability to be vulnerable to all conditions and damage and everything harmful for 24. Stupid, right? Obviously. But it shows that resource consumption by itself is not a sufficient balancing factor, at least for my contrived example. I truly believe it is not a good balancing factor for earlier levels as well. I'll not even get into the whole 6-8 encounters per day premise, which is itself stupid, nonsensical and nonfunctional, but think of it: how many times per day do you really need to be able to plane shift? It doesn't matter if it consumes resources, being able to do it, even once, is already an extremely powerful ability. Consuming resources is not a good balancing metric, because classes that don't consume resources are left in the dust - they only become relevant if you have enough encounters to drain everyone in the party, and only in the encounters happen after the resource managers are spent. It turns at-will characters into backups, emergency lights. That is bad by itself. WIthout a proper caster, adventures are sometimes not even possible - a bunch of martials cannot plane shift. Hell, if you limit your game to half-casters and below, you can run a 1-20 game and it will still feel like a relatively low magic game. Full casters break the rules of the game and the in-character reality in ways that no battle options for casters will ever fix. I do believe this game needs to tone down magic drastically.
I must admit I was expecting it to be some kind of attack where you send thousands of silver splinters into an enemy, not just something that contently downgrades an enemy's turn.
Thanks for advocating for martials at the end, great video all around!
Describing it as “just a reroll” and saying it’s the same chance as the initial hit (ignoring dis/adv for a sec) is a bit misleading, if technically accurate.
By having silvery barbs on deck and being ready to cast it, at the start of the turn the attacker is basically making their first attack with dis (or super dis if they initially have dis OR adv by the wording of the spell, i.e. “take the lowest roll”), with the added benefit of not wasting the spell slot on an attack that initially misses.
Also all the shield comparisons are leaving out the granting advantage to an ally bit which is comparable to bardic inspiration as a secondary effect on an already amazing spell.
I don’t think it straight-up outclasses shield’s main use case but negating criticals is pretty strong already. But as you discussed in the video this same prep slot also covers giving disadvantage on major save-or-sucks (hold person, banishment, etc)
Lastly, it’s worth mentioning that power aside play starts to feel really degenerate when players and DMs are throwing SBs at each other. Rolling again for a chance to fail after pulling off something cool feels bad, and first level slots are relatively cheap past mid-t2 play (and completely free for level 18 wizards- if you don’t take this as a signature spell you’re trolling)
"just a reroll" is generally "just a 5 modifier" aka basically an extra three stat points
I don’t like the spell because it feels so necessary. It’s so good and widespread that if it’s allowed everyone will have it at the table, and that would dilute the variety of spells each player has making the players feel more similar.
Also they should release a book with more actions for martial classes, they could even theme it as a guide made by a famous tactician or something
This is also super good when casting something like hold monster on a BBEG or dangerous monster. You can even do silvery barbs when it succeeds to recover. Encounters can be shut down really fast if the monster can't do anything.
Silvery Barb is just a better version of Heightened Spell.
If you use this with Aberrant Mind Sorcerer and have it as your Psionic Spells feature, you can use it for 1 Sorcery Point per casting, without needing to use a bonus action for making spell slots of of Sorcery Points. On top of that it would essentially have subtle spell applied to it for no additional cost. So I find this to be a buff to one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful subclasses for Sorcerer.
Clockwork is most powerful subclass of Sorc due to his spell list and trans/abj spells to chose from other lists.
Ab.Mind is second.
@@honestbenny Thats why didn’t say it only might be the strongest subclass. You can’t ignore that divination and enchantment are quite powerful spell lists but abjuration and transmutation probably suit the sorcerer better.
You’re an absolute king for getting the vid out before Christmas. Great work we love you.
The automatic subtitles spell treantmonk as "shrimp monk" and wintry wyvern as "winter byron" and i love it
Now I want to make a huge, awakened shrimp monk.
You can get this as Arcane Trickster, which makes you a great utility in close range combat for you or your allies.
Negating an incoming attack roll is meh, only really worth any concern if it turns a crit into a possible miss, but a first level spell and a reaction to cast hold monster, banishment, or polymorph a second time but this time with no magic resistance this time! Is massive, and the reroll is more powerful the more powerful the spell gets. The later in the game you go the more silvery bards goes from "S tier but don't ban" to "at least nerf it"
That being said single target save or suck spells are most prominent compared to other spells at 4th level and rerolling those spells is as good as casting them again. Which is as good as a fourth level slot which is dramatically over priced.
When you look at aoe save or suck like hypnotic pattern, it’s good, a tier, not ban worthy. If hypnotic pattern only affected one person it would be hideous laughter, and that’s how strong the reroll of it is. That’s also how expensive the spell is! And fortunately for the spell’s balance the only third level save or suck single target spell is enemies abound and bestow curse which each carry their own weaknesses so it’s not over powered at level 5..
Rerolling a save or suck spell only one level higher is good, but not busted. Especially when shield exists. There are spells so good that it's worth spending a second on even if there are no benefits there's a huge overlap between the value of a second and first level spell and no single target save or suck spell is anywhere close to being as powerful as the third level spells without Silvery barb. It’s not unreasonable to reroll a second level single target save or suck spell since those spells don’t tend to have the overlap in power with third levels you might get from web, they tend to preform around what could be expected for a decent second or a really really good first, and a really really good first is barbs.
And of course. If it can only be as powerful as the spell you reroll at maximum no level 1 spell will be problematic.
So, Save very generous DMs with Phantasmal force while many spells combo well, no spell (or ability) a 6th level character could have that will be problematic with silvery barb
But then comes level seven. When rerolling a spell three levels higher is just way to cheap for a first level spell to do and where single target save or suck spells carry their weight, only then is it OP in conjunction to banishment or polymorph. And when you get hold monster, a decent fifth level spell, the go to example of what is cast if legendary resistances are burned rerolling that is especially amazing! Especially if you are an enchantment wizard who can twin both hold monster and silvery bards! Rerolling 4th and 5th level save or suck spells with SB is actually absurd
The higher in the game you go the more problematic it becomes, which is exactly what 5e doesn't need! Power crept casters and poor scaling into the late game. The games late game is so underdeveloped that anything that makes it less accessible or worse should be discredited immediately.
Upping it's level can fix that a little bit, but there are good save or suck spells at nearly every level save third seventh and ninth so silvery barbs can be any level between 1-7 and it will be balanced at one specific time in the game.
I think if it has to be a spell, which it shouldn’t, it should be balanced around how good it is to reroll the most prominent single target Save or Suck. Which is polymorph and banishment. As long as it's balanced around how good it is to reroll a banishment, it's in its most balanced possible level, but it can’t be a balanced spell for a whole play through with consistent value for its level. Rerolling a save is just not a thing that is of a consistent enough value that you can put a level on how expensive you will pay for "rerolling an enemy save" it depends too much on what the save is
And for that i still say rerolling a banishment is around 2nd level if we're being generous and third wouldn’t be bad. We wouldn't make it fourth because it would be too hard to use with your own and because it’s not really significantly better to use on someone else’s than just casting banishment on your own turn, but it could honestly be good even if were third it wouldn't be a bad third level.
Shield if it were the third level would be overprised, and by that judgment SB is the more powerful spell period because it outperforms it's level by the widest margin of any spell
On a similar note you know third or second is probably the right place because the heightened spell is as expensive as twinning a third level spell, or buying a second level spell slot. Sb has its pros and cons and doesn’t invalidate HS but it should still probably be around the same place in how much resources it takes because i don't think the cons of SB significantly outweigh the pros enough for it to be significantly cheaper than a heightened spell. If it did it would invalidate it, it's just cheaper
Damn, that's long
Tldr depending on max campaign level make SB a second or third level spell
If one of this spells downsides is that you don't get to cast a more overpowered spell, maybe you should ban both?
3 things i want to add
in comparisson to shield at the beginning: shield is useless if not you but one of your team mates gets attacked(and hit) but silvery barbs can be used.
i think only bard and ranger should have gotten this spell(and shopuldnt be available to be gotten with fey touch). both dont have access to shield and it fits for both to use spellslots for such a supportive spell
and finally a small note to add: 5 spells that each do 1 thing good. vs 1 spell that can do 1 of the 5 things, the other 5 can do, but worse. that spell is better because it only takes up 1 slot in your prepared spells/known spells. and you have a incredible amount of flexibility. yes silvery barbs is worse then shield(if you get attacked) but it has flexibility and can be used in way way more situation then shield.
i criticized a lot but i must say out of all the videos i saw so far yours is the most thought out with actually math (and not eyeball statistics) and actually saying that some math is basicly impossible to calculate for this spell. you also look at every part of the spell and not just focus on 1 interaction.
I think that an advantage on a saving throw for a martial would be a good idea if you know the enemy is likely to counter with their own spell like dominate person or hypnotic pattern after your own CC spell
The spell completely changed the balance of the encounters in a way that makes it really dicey! I can't predict when silvery barbs will be available to save their asses from a crit or an impactful spell save. There has to be so many more changes before I can justify changing my encounters to compensate for changing dynamics, not just one over powered spell that everyone at the table has to take for powers to be balanced.
@Professor Thinker and what happens when the Silvery Barbs person is missing for a game session? They go in vs more or bigger more threatening enemies without their lucky wizard...
@Professor Thinker it's your choice but some level 1 resources are supremely more powerful than others. And not having access to them when they need it will change the balance of encounters and cause me (the DM) the improvise so they don't die horribly for nothing more meaningful or fun than I wanted to try casting a fireball once instead of saving my 3rd level spell slot for silvery barbs.
@Professor Thinker yep. I can we that you and I are playing the game differently. I will enjoy using this spell in my campaign when the game is a little better balanced.
@Professor Thinker yeah with the amount of work that my players put into their characters I prefer to have a death as an infrequent occurrence that drives the story forward.
@Professor Thinker geez dude take a break and accept that I'm not willing to put the spell in my game. You don't have to convince me. I manually balance the encounters myself as the DM. You don't have to do what I do.
Thank you pack tactics for this blessing on this day 😎
Truly a Christmas miracle!
Oder Domain Cleric's Voice of Authority combos great with this spell, and vortex Warp for that matter. Would make a super cool party leader build (or a puppet master build if you wanna get dark with it)
Woah, early post! Welcome back man, I hope exams went well :)
It didn't I failed. I'm taking it again.
Really my only problem i have with Silvery Barbs is that disadvantage on saving throws is *extremely rare*, and available at minimum on level 3 with Bestow Curse, which I don't think is a very good spell. (Do correct me if I'm wrong on either count, though). Disadvantage on saves is very strong, especially since a lot of encounters hinge on certain specific monsters making their saves and silvery barbs gives that to you for the minimum investment possible that can still be called investing resources in something.
Honestly I think the solution is pretty simple, gate the save reroll behind a higher level spell slot. That way it keeps all the life-saving, crit blocking goodness as a first level spell slot, but you have to invest something more valuable for this spell to have value offensively. (I'd probably put it at 2nd or 3rd... but 3rd seems too expensive and 2nd seems too cheap)
The weird thing is, every other spell in this book *is* 2nd, so making such a powerful one 1st level really just sticks out.
This is even better than disadvantage on saving throws, since you don't have to use it if they fail.
Considering the sorcerer metamagic ability that forces disadvantage on a save is 3 points(somewhat equivalent to a 2nd level spell) and this spell is stronger than just disadvantage it really should be a higher level than that.
Better yet, gate it behind having to upcast to the level of the spell that inflicted the saving throw. It would still be a solid spell, possibly saving your turn and still getting the advantage as a reaction.
I agree mostly when it comes to giving a marial advantage, but one outlier would be if it was cast by an Order Domain Cleric, SB aquired via Fey Touched. Voice of athority allows whoever you cast it on to get to take an attack as a reaction. Give that to your rogue, he gets a free sneak attack, even if he had one on his last attack!
One of my DM's didn't ban it, but made it into a 2nd level spell with a 25gp consumable cost, which I think is fair even though the consumable cost is going slightly overboard. What you're not fully considering here by just looking at base math is that yes, while you're basically just casting the saving throw spell again at the cost of a spell slot and reaction, what's actually overpowered is the breaking of action economy. Normally to cast that failed lockdown or AoE spell again you'd have to wait for your next turn, and your failure to lock that enemy down or kill them with your spell might result in a party member going down or any number of other issues for you party, but with Silvery Barbs you get another shot at them failing the save right away. The higher the level of the spell you're essentially recasting, the more value you're getting from Silvery Barbs, sometimes using up just that 1st level slot to "recast" a 5th level or higher slot which is insane. If Silvery Barbs didn't affect saving throws it'd still be a solid spell for the crit negation, large hit negation, and situationally being good to help when an enemy succeeds on an ability check where failure would keep them locked down (such as Wrathful Smite's Wisdom check to break out of it), with the advantage to an ally's next roll being a nice cherry on top.
That first OP use you mentioned isn't RAW. If you cast say hold person on some creature and they managed to save against it you don't get to use Silvery Barbs to make them reroll. You already casted a spell this turn, you don't get to cast a second one.
@@franciscofernandez8183 For Action and bonus action spells, then yes, you are correct. However it’s a reaction. You can cast something like Hypnotic Pattern and if someone tries to counterspell you, you can use your reaction on your turn to counterspell the counterspell.
This is a similar thought of mine - if it was 2nd level, so not everyone had easy access, and it didn't give an ally advantage, I think it would be closer to balanced, at least until those high level "save or suck" rerolls mentioned earlier.
I was waiting for you to do the video on the spell! nice job
Explains what makes this spell insanely good and easy to pick up for any class...
Video titled: don't ban it.
Wow, that was a quick re-edit. Grate job!
I find it hilarious how unbalanced the new spells are relative to each other, There's this one and a second lvl teleport with additional effects, and then there's a low damage spell that lets one player expend resources to heal.
I might be burned out for a while. That was a very hard night for me.
Well i see some use on martial PC. If u take 1 lvl dip in Order Domain and take some wizzard or sorc levels u can have this one:
Starting at 1st level, you can invoke the power of law to embolden an ally to attack. If you cast a spell with a spell slot of 1st level or higher and target an ally with the spell, that ally can use their reaction immediately after the spell to make one weapon attack against a creature of your choice that you can see.
So if i cast it to prevent attack from some one and i have a rogue that in range to deal damage to some one, it will trigger rogue atack with advantage, and thats sound great for me.
you are losing out on so many better options for a dip...
Order domain, I thought about talking about it but I really didn't have anything nice to say. Its such a reddit take lol. As for Sneak attack, sneak attack will be a video eventually.
@@trappyboi8678 well i mean i can use it on my friends and its help martial PC.
@@pandanielxd Why? If i want supportive skills its rly powerful. Ofc u lose some progresion on main class but not to much.
Despite being sleepy and a little aloof, I’m impressed! Gator knows the DND 5e rules very well. Go gator!
i’d really appreciate some more focus on different styles of damage scaling for martials. LoL is a cursed game but at least they have different ways to scale damage that gives a ton of flexibility to different characters in each game.
the one that comes to mind most is ways to pile damage onto a single strike, or apply potent effects with that strike. there’s some okay low-level options like Form of Dread for Undead warlock but that’s not a freaking martial class.
Can you say more about how LoL scales damage? Or link?
0:45 And Arcane Trickster Rogues. Force a spellcaster’s Cantrip to miss, then give yourself advantage for Sneak damage.
5:40 Also, Counterspell can be an Ability Check. So if I cast Silvery Barbs to benefit a Wizard, I can make an enemy fail a save while giving him advantage on Counterspell.
8:03 Again, Arcane Trickster.
This entire spell is the reason Cavalier needs a buff
I like when your videos are long. Detail is very interesting.
As Monty from de D Dudes said: my mindflyer is gonna love casting barbs after their intellect devourer pets force int saves on the party.
Sweet! You can also give them wall of force!
dont forget to give them access to spells of other classes like druid! so they get can heat metal your platecarriers etc. shure to be a fun first table!
One party member casts Fog Cloud and your devourers can't do shit since they can't see targets.
@@honestbenny They have blindsight
@@jamielennard3388 Ah, you are correct. I stand corrected. But they have only 20 HP, weak WIS, CHA, STR, DEX saves so its easy to kill them in one turn anyway. Also if I remember Mind Flyers dont have blindsight so no SB using for them if you blind them.
Gator falling asleep as you explain is so cute.
"Don't ban Silvery Barbs! It's not the best spell in the game for anything it does, these other hyperspecific spells do that one thing better! It's only the SECOND best spell in the game at everything it does, as long as we don't talk about its best use: using it on your own spells to give every save-or-suck you cast disadvantage."
Yeah, this spell is a shotgun and you're telling us that it isn't as good as a shovel for digging or a knife for slicing.
It isn't as good as people make it out to be. So far the people complaining about it are ones that never seen it in action. The ones that have used it say it worked half the time and regret blowing through so many spell slots because casters are only "broken" when they have spell slots.
It is good for clutch moments like counterspell, but like counterspell, you are not going to spam it.
So ban both then
@@nathanwilson7929 unlike counterspell, it’s a first level spell, that anyone that takes an already very strong feat can get access to
@@Nickelback8469 and? Have you run it? Have you seen it in play? Do you even play a caster or just some wargame dm afraid of actually putting some thought into an encounter. Because *anything* in this game can be broken, but whether it is or not is highly dependent on the player.
I have yet to see a DM say "this broke my game". What I have seen is it players say "It only worked half the time" and "I stopped casting it because I ran out of slots".
@@nathanwilson7929 No, it's broken. I've seen your comments littering all over this section, and you have no good defense of it aside from "DMs need to stop whining."
Every encounter needs to be balanced around this spell. It's an extreme buff to spell casting that isn't needed. It isn't just the players that are buffed either, if the DM uses this against the players, its effects are felt much, much harder. Throw in a mage with several of apprentices, with the mage casting Dominate Person and the apprentices all casting Silvery Barbs, and short of a Devotion Paladin, the player is going to eventually fail.
I or others don't need to play a whole campaign with this spell to figure out how powerful it is, all it takes is a little bit of theory crafting or an encounter or two to learn how abuseable its effects are. All for a 1st level spell
Giving martials special moves would probably be the best way to do it. You could add them every book like spells. They could have combos with each other and spells. Etc.
Silvery barbs should be split into 2 different spells.
1st: Spell that triggers when a creature makes a check, attack or save and that forces a reroll.
2nd: If a willing creature gets hit by an attack roll or fails a saving throw, you can use your reaction to give that creature advantage on their next attack roll, ability check or saving throw.
Regarding Martials:
All fighters should get access to maneuvers and superiority die equal to their proficiency mod.
All barbs should get something on hit or getting hit.
All Monks should get a way to restore Ki points in combat (similar to Soulknife rogues who dont waste points if they still fail / first use of the day) for example if they roll a 20/1 on a dice they restore ki points equal to their proficiency bonus or if a creature resists their effects they flip a coin or something to not waste the points.
Rogues are mostly fine.
Paladins Should get the blessed attack feature from clerics optional rules imo.
Rangers should get Favored foe baseline and it not requiring concentration.
Regarding Casters:
Warlocks hex should be concentration free similar to hexblades curse and/or be part of an invocation to cast it without expanding a spellslot.
Sorcerers need a rework:
Their hit dice should be a d8.
They should get an expanded spelllist where they can prepare a number of spells equal to their prof modifier from after each long rest in addition to their normal known spells because sorcerers spelllists are tiny in comparison to others.
That would make them a unique mix caster of preparation and knowledge.
They also should get a way to restore sorcery points without using their spell slots ( similar to my monk proposal)
Each sorcerer subclass should get something like an unleash mode where they let their powers flow freely and get a boost once a long rest:
Divine soul for example could get a channel divinity feature once a long rest from a cleric / paladin.
Shadow sorcerers get a free concentration free darkness spell per long rest.
Draconic bloodline could transform into a wyvern which gets stronger the higher your level gets.
Wild Magic could trigger a chaotic field around them where all magic triggers a wild magic surge on the caster.
Aberrant mind could create a psionic storm which increases psychic damage done by the sorcerer.
Clockwork could become an avatar of balance or something like that.
Storm sorcerers could become a Storm elemental (like a wildshape)
And:
Metamagic adept should give sorcery points equal to your proficiency modifier.
While I agree with a large of handful of the ideas conceptually, some are pretty out there. So first things regarding silvery barbs there is a lot going on with the spell that can be changed to make it acceptable. 2nd level, changing the school and limiting who gets it. Since it being divination means you can use fey touch to get it. If it was just bard or sorcerer who got it I wouldn't car but wizards getting is more problematic than either of those.
But my main dislike of the spell isn't how powerful it is really but how it alters the game when pushed to it's silly extremes. And also on how not fun it is, the dm isn't Likley to have more fun with the spell being used against all his big monsters he put effort into and neither are the players going to enjoy it being used. Counterspell is an exception as it's not fun either way but it also gives a cool wizard vs wizard vibe. Here uhh none of that's happening.
Martial buffs, I like the fighter idea, although I doubt it will be the battlmaster being integrated with the class for the reason that it can be a bit complicated looking over all the manuevers, for a class pushed to be simple and easy to use (I totally agree that they should though just design may need to compensate for added complexity to ensure simple use.)
Barbarians, need fighting styles like the rest it seems like a pretty blatant oversight, like why don't they get em. And rage needs to be easier to keep up as is so many monsters shut you done by existing or ignoring you and you actively hurt your multiclass options by taking barbarian. I also think the barbarian should a lot faster than the other heavy weapon martials but he is only a tiny bit faster at the moment.
Rangers and paladins, honestly are fine, add cantrips and tiny Tweeks like I would make paladins wisdom casters vs charisma, because honestly I can't ever see the reason why they were charisma in the first place when wisdom and perception based things would allow them to survive vs talk better. (Aren't the clerics supposed be trying to get people involved in faith and such not the guy in armor and a sword)
Rogue, make them have an extra attack, sneak attack can only happen once per turn and it gives them an extra chance to do so. Or you can give em a re roll to hit at 5th level.
Monk is difficult to figure out how to buff because it's good at early levels but falls harder than a sack of rocks outside those levels. I feel it should have a added mix of suppurt or other abilities that more clearly defines it's role vs fast stunning punch guy.
As for warlock more spells, giving hex without con would be huge but honestly they should get eldritch blast, hex and agonizing blast as part of their abilitys. Intelligence should be their spellcasting modifier, most warlocks are the odd loners delving for knowledge and we're originally a wizard subclass. Intelligence is their main thing. Not sure how talking good makes you able to idk get your hands on the secret and ancient rites of contacting otherworldly beings. Last but not least makes the amount of spells they have from pact magic equal to their proficency modifier. Because why does he only have 2 whole spells till 11th level.
Sorcerer also sorry for splitting these up just easier to do so since I'm on mobile. I agree it should more different than the wizard, and I think a way to restore sorcerer points is a great idea like the monk restoration of ki. But I also think the sorcerer being off brand wizards is a part of their flavor. The main thing I feel it needs is unique spells. Doing this one thing makes it feel different to the wizard while keeping it line as very strong caster. I didn't mention that warlock has some of the worst unique spells because many of them simply don't upcast like you would want a warlock spell to do. A sorcerer still only has maybe a handful of spells the wizard doesn't get and they aren't the greatest to start with.
@@christianlangdon3766 I would say make Int the spellcasting modifier for Great old one and probably fiend, but keep cha for archfey celestial and hexblade.
I'm of the opinion that fighters Battle Master takes what should be a progression path for all Martial classes and holds it hostage in a single subclass. If manuvers were just treated like spells, but for martial characters, you could see more and more options be released over time just like spells because it wouldn't just be for a single subclass. If you added level requirements you could even have high level martial abilities that were on par with high level spells.
@Professor Thinker You would only need to give the battlemaster subclass abilities that work more directly with the manuvers.
@Professor Thinker I dont want maneuvers as they are on other classes, in want manuvers to be expanded to be nearly equivalent to spells and made available to the martial classes. Right now they work on battle master but the idea of fighting techniques could be expanded so much further.
I disagree that it makes reaction economy more interesting. Unless you already had shield *and* relied on it (so, only wizard, sorcerer & hexblade), this is an auto-pick and you will cast it every time you have a reaction and a spell slot, and an enemy succeeds on a save. It doesn't add variety or interesting tactical choices to the game. There were no effects that messed with enemy saves as a reaction, and now there is. It doesn't compete with other tools with the same role, it stacks on top of them. That's power creep, and it's, as you said, entirely unnecessary. Not to mention the spell has basically no flavor, so giving such an important role to such an aesthetically boring spell is a huge waste. The game is better off without this spell, so I'm banning it at my table, it's that simple.
It's not even trying to flavor anything. What is the character reacting to? The enemy...does...something? An attack, saving throw, or ability check is essentially everything in a d20 system.
Let’s say I’m an Arcane Trickster Rogue Silvery Barbs; being from the School of Enchantment is a must-have at 3rd-level (I could only have one of Absorb Elements, Mage Armor, or Shield). But I’m 5th-level, and I’ve already used my Reaction on this turn to Uncanny Dodge to save myself half damage from a nasty hit from a 2nd enemy. Now I don’t have my Reaction available that turn to use Silvery Barbs, even if I have a spell slot. That’s the balance in Silvery Barbs he’s talking about in the video. It takes two limited resources to cast.
@@joshuahitchins1897 Doesn't work if the enemy is making you roll the d20 with a Saving throw inducing move like a breath attack. Also does not work if they are outside of the spell's 60 feet range. Also, they can have multi-attack, minions, and/or legendary actions and lair actions.
this wont be replacing my shield spell. thanks!
Silvery Barbs is still getting banned in my games, and here's my reasoning:
At low level play, it's fine. At mid or high level play though, a first level spell slot is such a nothing investment to get higher level spells to land, especially save or suck spells. The big gamble with a save or suck spell is that it doesn't land, and this spell makes that way more likely, making that option way more appealing without even necessarily having to cast the spell. As you increase in level, the power of this spell goes up dramatically while most of your other 1st level spells go down in relative usefulness. At least shield and absorb elements are pretty flat in terms of their usefulness over the levels. This is such a caster power gain in a milieu of already-powerful casters, I see it as wholly unnecessary.
My only issue with the math presented on the to hit scenario is that it doesn’t seem that a “given” function was used. This is statistical analysis used to determine probably for independent and known percentages which both check out for the given scenario. By using the function you simply multiply the new percentage change of success by the old. At 3:47 it was determined to be 65% chance of success. Now I agree that the chance of isolated success doesn’t change on the reroll the chance of having a hit after another hit is actually (.65^2)100 [the 100 is only used to express the percentage in integer value]. This creates a new value of about 42% chance of successfully hitting the person with a successful attack of both rolls at time 3:47.
"nooo dont ban this spell!! here's a 12-minute video on all the insanely broken shit you can do with it" bro what
And powergaming nerds on reddit are going to use yet another video of this dude as 'evidence' that their munchkin builds are valid and sound, lol.
I know right? It astonishes me how all these optimization channels will point out how absolutely insane this spell is, and then advocate for not banning it.
Best review of silvery barbs
They need to give weapon traits and fighting styles to Martial Builds
Sleepy Gator is adorable. I just want a little gif of Gator snoozing while Kobold talks, plays bagpipes and wildshapes into a wyvern angrily in the background.
Ability checks: initiative, getting out of web, shoves/grapples, perception against your stealth, insight against your deception, discerning an illusion you cast
Barbs is still broken good though. It might have been balanced if it only affected attacks or checks or saves, but you can use it on all three.
This doesn't work with initiative, it was the first thing I checked. Forgot to add it in.
@@PackTactics ah yes, because you cannot 'succeed' an initiative check
counterspell stops a spell silvery barbs lets one person reroll a check for half damage.. hum which is broken again^^
@@blubblubwhat counterspell is third level and only affects spells. Silvery barbs is 1st level and can force anyone within 60 feet to reattempt nigh any d20 roll.
Critical hit? Try again. Saved against something nasty? Do over. Skill check out of combat? Give it another go.
Silvery barbs isnt OP because of its raw power, its OP because of its insane breadth of application compared to its low cost. And slows down the game unnecessarily as vid mentioned.
@@PackTactics Does it work on contests like shove or grapple?
Thank you for this, SB was on my list :)
All this makes me think about is that every time a new spell is released martials only get worse. Spellcasters are constantly getting new options, and sometimes more powerful options, meanwhile martials are still the same, the only thing they get are new subclasses, but so do spellcasters. Martials don't need new subclasses, they need new matial-wide mechanics. #MakeMartialsGood
What we need are proper grappling rules. A caster should have a problem if a barbarians is five feet from them and the system doesn’t really have that. I use a system where you can try to incapacitate a grappled opponent as part of an attack, which helps.
@@kagato23 IKR, the closest thing we have to it is the Grappler feat, which is a WHOLE FEAT that takes TWO(2) actions to set up, and even then someone could just teleport out of your grasp.
You ignore the other two uses of this spell. One: You can use it to make an ally possibly succeed where they failed...
and two: it's not an accident that it's enchantment. Enchantment has always been too swing-y. Either you succeed and win or fail and waste a spell. But being able to cast a good enchantment spell, then have the option to make a success a failure to land that enchantment will win encounters. It's not even as much that it grants a reroll as much as it's seen as more reliable and therefore becomes more used.
This is not a BAD spell... it's a CONFUSING spell.
If you don't really understand exactly how the rules work and try to understand it with shorthand then you'll run into a lot of trouble. In that sense this is a great spell as it pushes 5e players to rise to the challenge and improve their understanding of exactly how the core rules work.
I agree, this is a super confusing spell and its super complex. Like I feel like this video isn't enough.
Silvery Barbs as an Aberrant Mind Sorcerer is pretty awesome. Taken as a swap out on your Psi Spells list. You can get a ton of uses at a cost of 1 sorcery point each time (and your reaction for the round). I like it as a way to hand out advantage sometimes even if it doesn't save.
I would not allow that as a swap out as a DM just due to the shenanigans it could cause
@@sykune it isn't really that powerful especially when enemies get multiple attacks or you have a lot of enemies. You might stop one attack or kill a crit, or make an enemy fail a save. But only one per round and with limited resources. Most of the time someone using the shield spell is a much better option.
As a DM myself I find barring options and fun ideas to suck so I only do it when something is extremely exploitative or makes the game unfun for other players. But everyone has their own ways.
@@TheProteanGeek good point overall I am ok with it but as psychic spell it renders it uncounter spellable for very little cost.
Had a HORRIBLE encounter with this last night where my (former) DM abused this spell against us to the point that none of us were having fun. Used it four times in a single round to make us fail our saves. Then used it wrong and cast it as a bonus action after casting a higher lvl spell (again making me fail the save I had passed). Spent the whole session angry and wishing I was doing something else, even muted my mic for a good portion of the game. I decided no D&D was better than bad D&D and quit the game once the session was over. Also made me hate this spell with a passion where I don't want to see it at the table ever again.
Question is did any of you as players use the spell against him?
@@sykune none of us were even familiar with the spell until that night. He just wanted to show off how broken it was.
@@Menelanna oh ok
As a DM, Dm's are unnessasarily scared of Silvery Barbs. The spell is fine.
Why in the name of .... would you ever use this on an attack roll when you can turn this into disadvantage on a saving throw. This is broken when used with save or suck spells like Otilukes resilient sphere, forcing disadvantage on a saving throw is huge compared to damage.
Disadvantage is numerically treated as a -5 to a check when discussing passives, so functionally silvery barbs does something VERY similar to shield in addition to allowing someone else or yourself advantage for free
Honestly, I think it should be banned. Homebrewing a fixed version is fine (like Shield, I think the appropriate fix is probably some mix of slot level impacting the effect and maybe a higher base level), but the spell as written is pretty absurd.
The problem is not just that it is a defensive tool in the same league as Shield (not as effective for gishes getting attacked a lot, but able to negate crits and protect other characters).
The problem is not just that it is an offensive tool for making enemies fail vital saves and stacks with every other such tool, including itself.
The problem is not just that it is perfect for whenever screwing with someone's ability/skill check in or out of combat is helpful.
Any one of those things would make for a very valuable 1st-level spell, but what makes Silvery Barbs a problem is that it can do any of the above, and give advantage to an ally for kicks, as a single 1st-level spell AND never needs upcast to have full effect.
It's just too many powerful options in a 1st-level spell.
Silvery barbs is the reason a party of lvl 16 (average) SHUT DOWN for 11 rounds 3 CR 17 and 1 CR 12. Is just busted AF
all you did was convince me to ban the spell. Yey
If it targets both the enemy and the friendly creature, you cannot Twin it. However, it does say "choose" an ally, not target. If we want to split hairs, it should work. Ask your DM. If it's ruled that both are in fact targeted, that's also fine - Order Domain Clerics can use their Voice of Authority and make the party's Rogue immediately trigger a free Sneak Attack, provided they haven't yet used their reaction and don't otherwise have disadvantage on the attack roll, since they'll be able to attack with advantage through the Silvery Barbs/Voice of Authority combo. This works on melee or ranged Rogues.
Great video, and the conclusion I come to is however the opposite : ban this or your martials will feel pointless while your casters do everything. It's almost worth considering reserving your reaction as a martial for this spell as insurance or amplifier for your casters, and that impedes on design space: more casters, maybe gishes, but pure martials might start to be frowned upon.
Also, the flipside of this: as a DM, you are now kinda forced to pull your punches and ignore the existence of this spell for your monsters, OR even the odds, play it and see your players fume as their rolls are constantly challenged/crits canceled. I'm not sure it's so good at the end of the day.
What, for one encounter? that lasts like, 4 rounds tops? In what game are you playing where players and monsters have effectively infinite spell slots in every adventuring day. Many of the problems people face are literally just down to them playing the game in tons of unintended ways all at once and not accommodating for it. This includes feats, especially feats, the game was literally not balanced around having feats, they are an optional rule. If this is how you want to play, then you need to be putting in more work, and leveling up your DMing.
@@Jah_Coby I thought I was pretty clear, but I'll try a different angle : the fact that Silvery Barbs is so accessible forces you as a DM to make a choice in terms of world building : either PCs are somewhat like other people, and so SB is fair game for all, NPCs and enemies alike, or PCs have this weird "plot armor" and only them can get such spells. Former makes it so almost ANY spellcasting villain has the potential to use this (remember, widespread, accessible, lvl 1 spell, and whatever players have the DM has too) and the latter can feel insipid and like an empty victory. A bit like playing against an opponent in any sport where the opponent is injured or missing its star player. In the first case, I am really not sure if it'll be a good thing. In the second case, you're basically acknowledging that the spell is too strong to use against players. That kinda proves it if you ask me. There's no 2 ways about it : it sucks to use a reroll skill against players, and it forces this weird dichotomy in world building where PCs are snowflakes or suffer the anti-fun consequences in the name of fair-play and immersion. It's accessibility is what is the problem here.
@@20100langlois no spell is known by every mage. And yes, maybe you should face a divination/ enchantment specialist that forces all kinds of crazy roll mechanics and stuff now and then. In no way does that mean every single mage has to come loaded with that spell. Vary your encounters and vary your world. A little creativity goes a long way and people need to actually experience something in play before hopping on the bandwagon of banning a spell before its even come out. We only just got it, let it breathe. I promise you it's not so broken at all, most of the worst scenarios people pose are made up to begin with and not RAW (Legendary resistance, and chaining it against the same roll for example) that, or they are playing in unintended ways that increase its effect on your encounters without using options to help with those changes. Those unintended balance changes actually include feats btw which much as everyone likes to forget are optional in 5e and literally not balanced for, especially for encounters or CR.
@@Jah_Coby Let's agree to disagree. You mentioned feats are optional, that's even worse IMO if this spell even brings that conversation in. If this makes it so feats are optional, it shows indeed it hampers design space. Highly tactical players will see the potential this brings as a team, like Kobold highlights in his video, and redefines reaction economy for every character. That's a paradigm shift, and I described what it was above. Changing or removing the spell is a simpler solution, and you'll be perfectly fine without it.
@@20100langlois feats have always been optional?? Point being if you're going to use them you gotta accept that you are doing extra work on your encounters. Level up your game DMs
4 Divination Wizards with Silvery Barbs have more control over the story than the DM does lol.
Honestly, every argument you made just gave me more and more fuel for me to ban it, or at least turn it into a 2nd level spell. The analogy of "casting a spell again as a reaction" resumes too well the offensive uses of this spell, and giving it to a concentration check is an option I didn't considered it and it is so powerful. Even considering Ability Checks it's pretty potent, since it can help your Illusionist friend to maintain it for one more round. Sorry, dude, but for me, it tips the point of power a bit too much, similar to what Peace Cleric did in Tasha's.
No Zam No! Bad Zam! Bad!
I agree martial need more love. And the most creative spell in the book was actually Vortex Warp. After all any spell that lets you bring a target were you want them to be or moves the Barbarian right next to the BBEG - that is true team work making the dream work!
As for Silvery Barbs, you can ban it if you like and there are a LOT of good valid reasons to do so (effectively) remove Crits from the game on the side that does not have this spell and thus effectively negating Elven Accuracy and Luck facing that Caster as a as examples of consequence. But on the plus side if you don’t, it will shake things up a lot powering up FULL casters and it is only one reaction. If you are a DM that can use Deck of Many things then this spell is a walk in the park.
Hope you had great grades my little Kobold friend - Happy Holliday all.
I already banned it, but now I'm afraid that I'm a buffoon
My friend, you got to at least try it and if from experience is negative (And I'm talking like 2 months in). Then ban or brew or whatever. Chances are low it will be a problem really.
You are.
Love this, the only thing I wish was brought up is that you have no real control over that advantage, the next thing that can use it *will*. While you can try to give someone advantage on a saving throw or concentration check specifically, there's no guarantee it's lasting that long.
Quick example: Wizard is concentrating on Hypnotic Pattern, you Silvery Barbs one of the targets and give the advantage to the Wizard for his concentration check. Enemy casts Mind Sliver on him, the advantage is used up on the Sliver damage, concentration check is performed as normal assuming the damage is taken (well, - 1d4 from Mind Sliver). Honestly, Fireball was probably a better example spell to use.
First level really shouldn’t be able to give pseudodisadvantage to saving throws. The spell is ok otherwise
It's weird, cause all other house spells from Strixhaven are level 2, and I would be much more sympathetic to SB if it also was a 2nd level spell.
The defensive aspect of silvery barbs is the less useful but can be used on a friend being attacked. It can't bypass silverybarbs but when the bbeg succed the save against a banishment and you force a reroll, can fail and if fail is going to need that legendary resistance. So it can't bypass legendary resistance but having 2 or 3 casters with silvery barbs on a team force the boss to burn legendary resistances really fast
Nope, hate this spell, and I only play (mostly as casters), not DM. This spell shouldn't exist. Also including Borrowed Knowledge in this. Bloom and Gloom just shouldn't be a wizard spell. The other two are good.
This guide would be great if anyone ever gets to play in a campaign with this spell
God sakes, BAN THIS SPELL, it's great as a player, wait til your DM starts using it, my group played from lvl 1 to 12 then TPK. I used it first then the DM caught on, save or sucks spells don't need a boost
I had a Tabaxi Arcane Trickster who took Silvery Barbs as one of his spells. Every session, every important combat, i used it to shut down crits and succesful saving throws. The party's casters simply loved me. Also i had some pretty nice moments and RP's, because i was basically the Prince of Persia, but using a spell instead of a blade, lol.
1.25x speed
You're welcome
I have no idea how to fix the bland flavouring of this spell, but it seems pretty balanced if you just swap out "attack roll, ability check, or saving throw" to just "ability check". Checks are often overlooked for being situational, but the right check at the right time can be really hype. Also, it makes grapplers slightly more viable.