The Gith are actually what’s left of the Githyanki who invaded Athas, realized what a horrible place it was, and retreated before doing the Githyanki equivalent of “shredding the door” in Monsters, Inc. A few were left behind for some reason and those eventually degenerated into the modern Gith.
My condolences on your friend. Impressive with the lake. My biggest good guy achievement in athas was finding finding jobs for a few dozens former slaves. Love how athas is a horrible place to live, but, opposite of 40k, there is Hope with a capital H. If we all worked hard for it, it could be a great place to live again.
"Started gaming as DM again" Your best buddy would've wanted you to do that. Now they can fully rest as their best bud is DM'n again and watch your games....
As a teenager I was at a D&D convention in Dallas when the box set was released. Tim Brown and Troy Denning spoke about the setting., We were all in awe, at the end asked, “any questions”? The room was silent! It was so different setting we didn’t know how to take it. They also talked about other ideas being kicked around for a new setting. They discussed an idea called “Dungeon World” a hollow world that had no known surface it was 100% dungeon. But TSR went with DarkSun.
@@jamesmorton7852 Hollow World owed more to Pellucidar. As to "dungeon world" that sounds a lot like Gormenghast . . . or maybe Pandemonium (which TSR already plotted out in that first Manual Of The Planes). Or Elemental Earth. So I guess TSR were planning to figure out how to make the theme work in a campaign?
It is so full over eternally taboo subjects that it will only ever thrive on the fringes. I hope we never lose it, and it will always be a bit punk, a bit metal.
He must not have kept up at all with the scandals of WotC, or what's going on with the entertainment industry in general, to wish for WotC to make a new MODERN version of Dark Sun, sheesh. Lets pray that WotC never touch this setting and puts their stain on it. Also the Dark Sun planet is just one out of millions of so called "Death Worlds" in the Warhammer 40K universe.
Something people often neglect is how gorgeous the artwork is by Brom for dark sun, and how much it does to evoke the setting! The characters posing against hellish backdrops, often looking feral or fearless. I am in love with his art! To me, Dark Sun is inextricably tied to his vision for it.
Brom has been my favorite artist since childhood, after my father bought me one of his art books. Didn’t realize he did dark sun and MTG work! Everything is perfectly connected in my life now, thank you.🙏
I could not agree more. What's funny about it is that Brom eventually left TSR because they wouldn't let him paint/illustrate anything BUT Dark Sun. You can read about it in his art book. I'm just glad we got as much DS art from him as we did.
I think one of the reasons 5e never did Dark Sun aside from the typical reasons of slavery and such, is that 5e has taken the survival aspect completely out of D&D. Between the 5e version of goodberry and create water, a party never has to worry about foraging, nor carrying enough food, nor loosing that food to raiders, nor getting lost if the ranger has desert as it's favored terrain.
5e and its lore is just sanitized. There's very little truly fantastical beyond spelling slinging and magical creatures. it was made to be easily palpable by the masses and doesn't allow itself any controversy. . .in a world where past lore tells you there ARE evil races and that GOOD vs EVIL is still very much a thing. . .not everything is morally gray.
As someone who lives in a real desert; all that bare skin and leather will kill you faster. The characters should really wear loose baggy clothing to cover as much skin from the sun as possible for their own survival. Since Iron is scarce in this setting, then perhaps stone slings, stone tipped arrows and wood boomerangs can serve as a more common ranged weapon as compared to metal tipped arrows.
The bare skin is mostly for the sex appeal in the art. But at least the effects of wearing heavy or even medium armor has been acknowledged. Much of D&D sacrifices some realism for fun and simplicity.
Think there are theories about how the sun being changed and general mutations, makes no clothing a good idea. But hey, its 80's heavy metal and I love it!
I think alot of that leather is actually insect 'chitin', as giant bugs are one of the few things thst can survive in the wild. Not sure if it's any better for sun exposure.
The did remake it back in 4e. So it's possible to see what WotC would do to Dark Dun, because they already did it. It wasn't as bad as it could have been, but it was heavily sanitized.
They would ruin it. Too scared that some snowflakes might get hurt feelings. Let the fans handle until WotC finally is cleansed of ideological nonsense. WotC would also probably use AI to paint the books^^.
@@lyvekis8824I don’t think WOTC should attempt Dark Sun either but it’s kinda weird to see someone go “tough guy” snowflake talk about board games for nerds.
Back in the 90s the dark Sun novels were my favorite. I think my favorite part of the setting is that halflings, one of the least respected races in any other setting are one of the most feared in this setting. No one wants to run into a halfling tribe.
Dark Sun was a PvE game more than any other setting. Mere survival was the goal. You didn’t try to win against a sorcerer-king, you tried to avoid their attention. I can remember playing a Water Hunter tribe elf druid that thrived by using magic to create oases in the rocky badlands away from the cities. I started with rock-cut shelters and kivas filled with magically-created water. Protecting those sources of water became the focal point of the campaign rather quickly, because anything that you can use to survive, someone or something will try to take away.
A very even handed look at Dark Sun. It's one of my favorites because it is so unusual and weird and brutal. I do wish WoTC would sell this IP to a company that would do Dark Sun well and not go over the top.
@@ChrisMoneymakerDHRG just a prediction, they will make like 4 more games with this being like the 5th not even half finished, then the company dies off but the workers will move onto other game studios or even the next "souls game"
I love the fan theory that says the whole world of Athas isn't a desert, we play in an isolated area that has no contact with the thriving outer world, like a colossal version of the Mournland.
That’s kind of true, there’s a rainforest area where the Halflings came from and the insect people come from somewhere else, so the ENTIRE planet isn’t just a giant desert. Just a lot of it.
@@thecosmic8248There is a large Thri-Kreen empire that exists beyond the Jagged Cliffs that is probably where most of the insects originally came from.
32:21 This is not happening. Larian Studios mentioned that WotC fired the entire staff that liaised with Larian on _Baldur's Gate 3,_ and Larian announced that they will not pursue any more projects with WotC. The laid off department was also the only one at WotC that turned a profit according to Hasbro investor reports. Both Hasbro and WotC are currently in financial straits, and it's looking like WotC will go the way of TSR now.
@@TheEvolver311 Ok, but that doesn't really explain why they choose to sack the relevant team when they turn a profit, and they were involved in the massive success that BG3 was
Honestly the way around the problematic elements is pretty simple. Wrap it in plastic, slap a warning sticker on it that basically says “Hey this book is deals with some heavy topics that some people might not be comfortable with and is recommended for adults only. Discretion is advised.” Put it out there and let the consumer decide.
That's a smart suggestion, but the issue is that Hasbro won't risk their overall reputation over a niche role playing setting. There are a lot of bored wannabe social justice warriors out there. Personally I think this is the coolest setting D&D ever created and Warhammer 40k is arguably far more extreme. There is a large fan base for dark fantasy and horror and the fact remains that human history is filled horrible things too. Better to channel the dark stuff into role playing games than real life in my opinion. Ironically you don't see protests with Call of Duty video games and you can say they're even more fucked up. Just making an observations and for the record I'm 18 years Active Duty military.
@@poolplayerbrian It's not social justice types who would be against Dark Sun. It's the money people. Dark Sun isn't ad' friendly, it's not generic oatmeal fantasy with universal appeal. It's not going to get investors excited. It has opinions and heart and soul. It might turn some people off. That's not the kind of thing WotC are willing to touch. The line gotta go up.
@ Well 1) They are buying a book so I would assume so but more importantly 2) If they ignore or fail to read a label that is entirely their problem not the publisher and/or creators of a book.
The elves are interesting. The bride kidnapping/"kidnapping" is an interesting historical fact, generally it was kind of the agreed upon way to create more genetic diversity (though they didn't know the term at the time) between tribes to avoid inbreeding too much and inject some new blood into the tribe. Same type of system existed with things like cattle raids too - just kind of some cultural thing every tribe did to each other as a matter of life. Ireland specifically has a long history of that. Obviously the idea of this system is terrible now in a modern context. It's just kind of an interesting historical parallel they added.
It's one of those things where yeah, realistically is AWFUL. Don't do. But that's, kind of what fantasy/fiction is for? Yes, be critical, acknowledge it would be horrible in REAL world. Doesn't mean a compelling and incredible story can't be crafted out of it.
Complete noob when it comes to modern game development. With modern game engines, assets and so on how difficult is it to make a rpg that looks and plays well?
@@TheLavachildYes, Dungeons and Dragons has hundreds of full length novels. Pirating them in .epub format is unfortunately the best way to get a decent collection of them.
I sometimes joke with my friends that my next character will be a Preserver who managed to escape Athas and is now absolutely ecstatic he lives in a world where it rains.
I played D&D as a kid, then went like a decade without playing. In my early 20s I moved in with a couple friends, and they were all playing D&D, so I completely jumped on board. It was Dark Sun, and it was brutal. I loved it, we all loved it. Our DM was fantastic. He was the kind of DM who would put in hours upon hours of work, learning the lore, creating the adventure, etc... and he was super into the setting, so he did a great job of introducing the world to us, explaining the racial differences and stuff. Ah, good days.
It was wonderful to help guide your research with this. If you ever have any other D&D topics, you know how to find me, and I'm always happy to share what I know!
fun fact, all the sorcerer kings are dragons, only one went back to goodness and strived to become an avangion. you guys gotta actually read the setting material.
@@Brightblade_Plays yes, we discussed this, and I was mindful about exactly this sort of grumbling, because I would grumble too! But this isn’t meant to be a deep dive into every twist and turn; to fit in a 30-odd minute form factor, Otto had to omit certain things. On top of that, this is really more aimed at people who are unfamiliar with the setting, as a sort of pitch; I think any DM would want the whole Rajaat/Borys/Sorcerer King relationship to be one they can unspool themselves rather than one the players already know.
There's something inherently silly about post society collapse settings that once you hear, you cannot unhear. It makes absolutely no sense to have entire armies built like Hulk Hogan when food is rare and famine is common, where did all the protein come from? How are you feeding all your slaves (things, DIE when you don't feed them)? Where the heck do these giant hulking monsters find enough food to sustain themselves when the desert is nearly devoid of all life? Many Real life deserts have a shocking amount of life.
A fair point, my interpretation is to have the bulk of any army be made up of half dying slave chaf, with a core of elites that take the bulk of the food and best equipment. Perhaps even consuming the weaker chaf soldiers on the regular
So there is an ecosystem explained. The world is not entirely Dunes. The city states have resources, agriculture and live stock, but they sorcerer kings have the monopoly of It.
I DM Darksun, which is not a post-society setting but rather a dystopian world characterized by fortress city-states ruled with an iron fist, alongside wasteland tribes surviving off the land. Athas teems with life, featuring abundant insectoid and reptilian species. There is plenty of meat available for groups strong enough to hunt it. It has been thousands of years since the world was green, so the ecosystem has evolved; various types of cacti and desert vegetation provide food and crafting materials. The cities are ruled by sorcerer-kings, with the majority of the population enslaved. Considerable effort and slave labor are dedicated to food production. Merchant houses transport goods between the city-states, resulting in a robust economy. This setting is brutal and harsh, actively confronting players with the evils of tyranny and oppression, leaving them with no choice but to fight against it. What WotC gets wrong is that the real-world evil of slavery provides the characters with a genuine reason to resist. The original metaplot involved the party participating in the overthrow of the sorcerer-kings and sowing the seeds of liberation across the land, ultimately seeking the magic to restore life to Athas. Current D&D has become so watered down and politically correct that the setting is viewed as problematic rather than recognizing its underlying social justice narrative. I would hate for WotC to remake Darksun; they would likely strip it of its greatness and sanitize it for their current fanbase.
One of the (many) things that I loved and love of Dark Sun, is that is humbles even the most OP characters (and powergamers). No matter if you're a 20th level demigod... you still have to find and carry enough water to survive. And dehydration inflicts Constitution damage (and in AD&D 2e, ability scores were fixed, they didn't increase with levels). When you reach Con 0, you are dead. No saving throw of any kind. So it took something like 4 or 5 days of dehydration to kill any character of any level. Fireball won't save you (but a water cleric might). This brings a reality check to the PCs, where they have to worry about mundane things like food, water and shelter. Further sourcebooks expanded the rules to include: high temperatures (that cause hit point damage), extreme winds (that inflicted to hit penalties and slowed movement), and toxic fumes and other choking hazards.
Compared to Athas, Ravenloft is a paradise. Any Athasian would gleefully love to get sucked in by the mists. "OMG!! There's trees and grass and lakes and rain and it's cool!! Happy day, happy day!!" 😭
So, I got into a campaign and the GM reveled it was going to be set in the Dark Sun universe. This video came on the day of the session 0. I'm so glad!
@@intheouts It's not cheating knowing the setting to make a background to your character. Imagine if I made a Fairy Cleric with a very whimiscal characteriscs, went with my sheet done just to be informed at the session 0 that I can't use a cleric nor a Fairy and my background doesn't match the base tone of the world. What if I didn't knew of the Psion class beforehand? I wouldn't even think that it was a nice try, which is! It's only cheating if you read the planned adventure (which isn't the case because the GM is writing the story, just using the setting and the video doesn't go so far in the lore), or the stat blocks.
@@nealaikin3868 Right? Dude's logic is that you can't learn a language before traveling to another country. Learning language and basic culture isn't the same as cheating the banking system.
Great summary description. I used to run a Dark Sun campaign. I own most of the novels and RPG books, and you did a great job of summarizing the setting in a concise and easy to understand way. One D&D 2024 needs to bring the setting back because it is so different and much more challenging than other settings!
I should note that I have zero familiarity with the 4e version of Dark Sun - honestly didn't even know it existed. IMO, nothing from 4e ever should have existed, so that's non-canon to me.
@@exitsexamined Yeah, that edition lost its way. I suppose it could have been possible for good Dark Sun module content to still exist from the 4e period, but having to play it in the 4e system would have made it hard to enjoy.
@@exitsexamined 4e is an excellent return to the tactical side of D&D. The 4e Dark Sun revival tried as you said to rollback some of the more civilising developments from the novels, while introducing the setting to new players. Wayne Reynolds did a fair bit of the art, which was also a nice update & nod to Brom's vivid, high contrast style. OldeGraybeard has a lot of 4e stuff on his channel, and Matt Colville has several videos discussing the cool aspects of the edition. It got a lot of online hate for a mix of valid & silly reasons, but is worth checking out.
For reference, the Dragon Kings are 20th level wizard (defilers) and 20th level Clerics , so essentially 40th level demi gods They also grant spells to a special priest class that worships them Being a defiler gives you a better spell progression than a standard wizard, preservers advanced as a normal wizard. All charter stats were generated using a different than standard method, 4D4+4 instead of 4D6 and dropping the lowest die, so you would generate 8-20 for stats before bonuses from race. Half giants had a shifting alignment rule They had these odd flip book stand up modules that were part player aid? Halfings liked using Elf shin bones as swords... It is a wonderful place.
"problematic" they say to a game culture based on islam that WoTc is so keen on to respect these days. oh boy, no wonder they hire kidly flidlers (edit, 33:50 in the quran)
They did 3 years ago in the release where there said they were doing spelljammer. Was in the archive since years ago. The info wasn’t when spelljammer came out was when they said they were remaking it for 5e so was a whole ago
Opening Intro: If you could live in one fantasy setting, what would it be? Me: NotAthasNotAthasNotAthasNotAthasNotAthasNotAthasForTheLoveOfAllThatIsHolyNotAthas!
This is hands down still my favorite setting for D&D. I get tired of the "this is problematic" argument. Last time I checked if someone doesn't like it, they can just choose not to play it.
And it's a fantasy world! Nobody is saying "this is the right way to court your mate" or "having slaves is right". If I remember correctly the first book series for Darksun was about a slave rebellion! No mistake: slavery is a terrible thing and nobody should ever be a slave. But in a fantasy world? Hell, one of the main antagonists in my world are the slavers!
The 'its problematic' most likely does not refer to political topics or anything. Shit even Faeurun has canon slavery, rape, genocide etc. If it was so problematic then they would have removed all of it but they haven't. Many of these 'problematic' elements exist in BG3 even. It refers to the fact that DND 5e is very different to DND DarkSun. The 'problematic' part is adapting DND 5e rules to Dark Sun. Doing so would completely change DnD. People think that Dark Sun 5e would just he regular 5e in a grimdark world, but so much of 5e would have to be changed that it would be almost a different system. There are far more survival mechanics built in, so many systems that just work differently in dark sun compared to normal 5e. I want more dark sun content, but yeah making a modern day dark sun would be problematic because gameplay wise it would change dnd drastically, and players would not expect it/want that level of change, and wotc doesn't wanna take the risk.
@@theholypopechodeii4367 this reminds me of the explanation made by Gary Gygax for his decisions on the original edition of Dnd: adventuring is brutal, unpredictable, and stressful. The reason adventurers do what they do isn't for excitement, glory, or fun - it's because they don't have a stable job they can actually survive on otherwise, and they're going to have times where life is just unrelenting hard. Iirc the original dungeons and dragons said that the DM should be keeping careful track of time, food, and wealth in the setting. Essentially players would leave for an adventure because otherwise their debts would catch up with them and leave them high and dry otherwise. 😅
WOTWC really ought to be licensing their unused campaign settings -- they're so incredibly fleshed-out and detailed -- to third-parties to do more with, if not for tabletop gaming then for video games at least.
They WERE doing that for awhile, some 20 years back (they put Dragonlance back into Weiss and Hickman's hands, and gave Ravenloft to White Wolf which... while far from perfect, was a damn sight better than the 5e version), but current management would never do that- What, and risk having people make better products than they can? Psh, get out of here.
Some years ago the German publisher Ulisses asked WotC if they could reprint the German version of Star Frontiers. Initially they said yes, but after a while WotC changed their opinion and said that Ulisses could not do this because they wanted to do something with it.
I ran DS with 3.5 Ed using some great little articles from Dragon and Dungeon magazines. The players hadn’t played in the setting before, only used to Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance etc. Cannibalistic halflings with razor sharp chakrams hunting them for two sessions. Good times, lol. Chucked in some rage virus “zombies” as well. They still talk about it fondly decades later. 😂
I remember seeing Dark Sun books in bookstore back in the day, but didn't know anything about it beyond the cover art until this video. As both a fan of brutal, Heavy Metal/Frank Frazetta style fantasy and a HUGE fan of intricate world building, this fascinates the hell out of me! I love scenarios where the world is broken and dying, and desperate "survivors" have to make painful choices between sticking to their morals and still being alive when the sun rises tomorrow, whether it's in movies, books, RPGs, or computer games. Dark Sun seems to scratch all of these itches. I'm glad I stumbled across this.
If you love the style definitely check out more of Brom art! If you're into that style fantasy do you know any others? Would love to check out more of them on the channel
IIRC there is one way out of Athas. You’d have to find the ruins of Kalidnay, which was taken to Ravenloft when the sorcerer king murdered half the people in his city. This implies that the ruins are connected to the other plane where the city still exists. In theory, you could use the mist to reach the Kalidnay in Ravenloft, then escape the city and travel to a different land, defeat the big bad there, and then return to that land’s original plane.
Genuinely enjoying your videos, so many of these topics have always made me wonder, especially your video on Eyewitness. You have also brought many cool new things to my attention. Thanks for the videos!
As a child of the 80's flawed hero's characters and no win situations are what makes for good stories and a good RPG. Dark sun was a song that might not be for everyone but it was unique. My own campaign is influanced by ravenloft for 80% and Dark sun for 20% and this inspired me to delve a bit more into dark sun again. thanks for that
Dark Sun is so immensely fascinating and is truly unique, even amongst other dark and gritty settings like Conan, Mad Max, and the various multitudes of one-off films from the 70s and 80s. Definitely one of my top three favourite d&d settings and it's not number 3, lol I even modeled one of the eras of my own OC fantasy setting after Dark Sun and Conan
Amen! These snowflake can't handle orcs and harsh language. A world where slavery is not only common but normal, and even preferred at times, is just too real for their fragile sensibilities.
THANK YOU for making this amazing video about this setting as a DM and creator for tabletop games its amazingly sad that those rare gems of stories are not in the spotlight anymore. i write my own stories to honor those from times to times but its not enough. thank you once again you are an amazing creator.
I have the AD&D 2e version of Dark Sun and Spelljammer converted to Old School Essentials. Found it online in a forum. I havent ran it yet, but it looks to be a complete conversion and very well done.
I never got into D&D but the DOS Dark Sun game from 1993 was my introduction to it. It's so crazy to me going back to it now and seeing how much bigger the campaign is beyond what was in the game.
I had this box set gifted to me by my dad when I was 16. It changed and influenced the tone of my stoytelling to a point of having permeated everything I run and have since. I am now 42 years old, a full time storyteller and game master, and run deeply immersive, very fleshed ou,t RP heavy, brutally challenging games and campaigns with very mature themes and dark subject matter. Often, I build my own worlds or make exhaustive adaptations of existing game settings for all kinds of TTRPG's into versions of themselves but changed for the worse, and in some even most minor way- more resembling the ravaged, post-pocalyptic, grim-dark, harsh brutality of DS. Thanks, dad! for a lifelong 'nailed it' gift! Love this video, sir. You handled and covered everything well enough to be alluring, informative, and encouraging. Represent! Subscribing this and your gaming channel!
Hey thank you so much for the kind words and welcome to the channel. You sound like an incredible game master and hopefully one day I can join one of your games. It's people like you who make the TTRPG community what it is! That sounds like an amazing gift from dad!
Thanks for this great video! This world, with that Original Dark Sun branding and art, came out the year I started my first job, babysitting, specifically so I could afford to buy all those D&D books, magazines (Dragon! Dungeon!), and all the materials coming out in a flood then (Monstrous Compendium Binder Packs!) at the start of my D&D journey. Dark Sun has fascinated me ever since. Well done and thx:) I remember MUDs, too, though that was a neighboring Geekdom for me, like larping or MTG. I don't remember anyone calling them M.U.D's at the time; we just called them "muds" (like wet dirt) and I recall at the time they were understood to stand for Multi-User Dungeons. Again, I was an outsider. So it's great to hear all this from a younger nerd, taking me back, and it was a nice return to a horrible world - one of the worst places, from a character's perspective, of all the places there were in D&D (A Game About Warfare). Dark Sun was and is evil, and it's worth exploring, for all the grandeur and excitement, and as a cautionary tale that has some value in our present times. Again, thanks for the video essay! I'll be back for more.
@@Lexicophage lol I also mentioned in research that definition of MUD, but apparently the developers made the acronym “dimension” instead due to a lack of true dungeons on Athas, which got a big laugh from me
There is another aspect when it comes to the balancing act between Defilers and Preservers. Its VERY difficult for a Defiler to repent and become a Preserver, impossible if one is too far down the road of a Defiler. On the flip side its very EASY to slide from Preserver to Defiler! There are ways to remove the taint of defiling if you are playing a Preserver, but that involves a Druid, and its not something that comes for free. No such thing as Altruism on Athas.... Not sure what its like now, but back when I played Dark Sun Preservers actually had the potential to become MORE powerful than Defilers. Defiling is a far faster method to gain power, but Preserving has greater eventual potential.... Problem is very few Preservers become that powerful. They are either killed by the Sorcerer Kings or Dragons, or they fall into Defiling.... It made playing a Preserver Wizard actually interesting as you CONSTANTLY had these moral choices to make because Preservers CAN use defilement to gather the power needed to cast, and sometimes you have no choice BUT to do so, either that or die!
$20 bucks! A whole boxed set back then. It was the one I got and ran from the group. I think it's noteworthy that in the early 90s, it fits the vision of environmental collapse. Captain Planet came out the same time, so the defilers precipitating the post-apocalypse setting it was. In hindsight, the dragon, a creature of hubris, and the opponent being a giant month, being Godzilla and Mothra is obvious. 3 random notes: For 2nd edition, Dark Sun characters attributes also ran to 20 (without racial variations). That helped to make everyone feel more than any other setting. A halfing or thri-kreen's favorite meal is an elf. Part of the fall of TSR was sales of the novels (of which I read many many many)--specifically, what happens when they don't sell. For mass market paperbacks. Booksellers could return hardcovers and trades for credit--and those excess books would be sold on for cheap as "remainders". For years, mass markets only needed the cover to be returned for the credit, but you can't sell that mass market stripped of the cover and had to get trashed. Lots of other obstacles and mistakes in TSR history, but those books not selling was a chunk of it.
We played Dark Sun for a little bit 'back in the day'. A time when so many RPGs came out there was no way to sustain them all. But we had a Thri Kreen and Cannibal Haflings. I was happy I finally made it through session and obtaining our objective. Only to die to a random encounter 2 days away from making it home. Shredded by a much higher level Bullet. I am actually working on a Drak Sun Mash Up. Its fun making stories or ideas in this setting.
The designers at wotc already answered why they won’t do anything with the setting again, it has way too many themes that are not in line with the company, and if they had to remake a book setting, they would have to change so much of the original setting that it would not be Dark Sun anymore, so they just don’t do anything with it. I think it’s for the best, if we learned something about current wotc designers it’s that they are really bad at making good material with complex themes like slavery, violence, etc… they don’t understand Dark Sun, and it’s best they don’t try anything with it
@@TheEvolver311 Ah, got it, so those who object to tokenism shoehorned into things as a result of activist lunatics who are triggered are the real triggered ones. Accusing your enemies of that which you yourself are guilty. Goebbels would be proud.
Great video! Darksun was one of the first pc RPGs I played, till this day still such a captivating world that influenced some home brew campaigns. I really would like to revisit the games I'm sure there was lots that went over my head at that age. E extremely underrated
I think there is a market for safe and confortable products and for Mature 18+ brutal and unhinged products. Not everything need to be family friendly. Maybe mainline D&D (or whatever) need to be safe, but there is room for fringe madness.
I remember seeing the boxed set for the first time in the store... psionics, high ability scores, awesome art! They made a great decision having Brom do all the art, and Troy Denning's flavor text brought it all together. I was actually in Judo classes with Troy in 1993, so that was awesome! I think one of my favorite concepts was the idea of a character tree... you already have your backups ready at day one of the campaign!
I played a half-giant wizard, named Dim. He pretended to be the “dumb brute” stereotype. His spellbook was embroidered on hand/arm wraps. I really enjoyed that character.
@@exitsexamined We were using a 3e adaptation of Dark Sun. Half-giants were large, had +8 str, -2 Dex, +4 con, -6 int, -2 wis, and -4 cha (or something close to that), fortunately we rolled for stats so I was able to get decent mental scores. “Only” had an 18 str, though.
Dark sun is my favorite fantasy setting of all time. I love how it reimagines a classical fantasy world into pure post apocalyptic sword and sorcery. I'm glad that wotc doesn't want to touch it. It would only destroy what makes dark sun special. It touches on themes about slavery, fighting for freedom, environmentalism, racism and survival in a oppressive world without being obnoxious.
Absolutely my favorite D&D Setting. The only 2E stuff I still have are the corebooks (plus Psionics handbook, of course) and most of the Dark Sun material (though I do regret getting rid of my Planescape stuff years and years ago).
I LOVE IT! Would you classify this under a Sword-and-sandal genre? The lithic technology and architecture has a very bronze age vibe to it, I think. Which I love it! I have such a love-hate relationship with Traditional fantasy. I love it. I read the hobbit in middle school, I played WoW back in the day, I even LARPed and have worked at Ren fairs. But its all just so played out. You can't excite me. I know all the joke, all the aesthetics, all the archetypes. I know all the worlds and any "new" world you show me is just going to be what I've already seen. It all looks the same and feels the same. Give me a Bronze age, Conan-style desert world!
There's nothing "Bronze age" or particularly "desert world" about Conan's setting conan literally wears full plate armor and Half of the kingdoms in the setting are based off the middle ages. How is that "bronze age" in any way?
Not desert, but Greyhawk is generally more inspired by Conan. Dark Sun was a lot more John Carter (Barsoom / Mars) meets Jack Vance's Dying Earth. I might argue there's some Gene Wolfe in there too, but I'd have to ask Troy Denning to be sure LOL
Dark Sun in 2e was a brutal thing to experience. I had my players rationing water and a couple of them died of dehydration. I still read about Athas almost 25 years since the last time I played it. City by the silt sea was one of my favourite expansions and the book Brazen Gambit is one of my favourite fantasy books ever.
@@thepavl I WISH we had time in the script to talk about Dregoth, and how he was positioned as the next big bad of the setting! CbtSS is a fantastic GM book
@@EndyHawk and you know for me the name alone invokes such mystery and dread. There is a poem by E. A. Poe that was made into a song by the band The Ocean called city in the sea which I have weirdly connected with Giustenal
@@thepavl I have some pretty odd tastes in "table music", and when I ran my dark sun campaign I used a ton of Brian Eno stuff he made for art displays (Music for Installations if you're curious) for deep desert soundscapes. So much desert music is "Arabian stereotypical", and Eno seemed to capture the "alien wastes" feel to me, but if we had ever made it out to Giustenal I would have used Silent Hill music. The whole "psychic drone that lures you to your doom" is too much of a parallel for me not to use something like White Noiz or A World of Madness.
Dark Sun and Spelljammer are my fave D&D settings, hence my art ;) Also wrote up a simplified psionics system to help make it easier for players, was published in Polyhedron long time ago
@@andersand6576 "Psionics Simplified" was title of the article, iirc Swapped much of the Psionics handbook stuff for Players Handbook spells, tweaked, to make psionics WAY easier to run sorry I'd need ot dig it out still have the magazine but, take bit finding it, was when Polyhedron was being run from England iirc got lots of freebies for writing articles for it ;) My RUclips channel has few of my very old Spelljammer and 1 Dark Sun animations :) DeviantArt channel, same name SilverbladeTE, has lots of my D&D art
8:05 one of two options. Everyone who goes there dies of thirst or the second one there is a jungle and to be fair who the hell whould go back to that scorching hell, just stay there eating coconuts and hakuna matata
Dark Sun was the one D&D setting I really liked. That said, I never thought it fit well with D&D. I have a bunch of the material from the original edition and have often thought about using it with Basic Roleplaying, which I think would capture the danger, desperation, and struggle better.
I think it's interesting because it really was by design that DS doesn't fit with the rest of DnD. They had to stretch to make the classes and even existing races fit!
I was unhappy when Forgotten Realms became so high fantasy. The early stuff, including the glimpses we saw in Dragon before it became the official setting were gritty. It was perfect for me. I incorporated several things from Pendragon into my ADD campaign like the personality traits. When Dark Sun came out that broke up my little group, some of them wanted that, I was the one who laid out effort and bucks and wanted my well developed FR setting. Oh well.
I remember playing Dark Sun role-playing games on the PC in the 90s. I remember the dragons and the dry clean and the desert and Magic sucking up the life force from everything it touches. One of my most pleasant memories of a child was reading the Dark Sun fantasy novel tribe of one.
Just found your channel and I love your subject matter and content! I'm burning through your catalogue really fast. Hope it's not rude, but I wanted to throw out a couple topic suggestions. I'm a huge Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser, and it's got a lot of interesting subjects to cover. Shockingly no tv or film adaption, which the series seemed almost perfect for, but there is the awesome D&D box set, and Leiber's larger relationship with early D&D in general. The thing I'd most like to see you discuss though would be my favorite fantasy series of all time, the Chronicles of Amber. I am shocked there's no film or TV adaption of this, though honestly kind of grateful. Anyways, keep up the good work!
Hey thanks so much for the kind words and for the great suggestions! I've wrote them all down in my mega list of death. What's the vibe of Chronicles of Amber and Gray Mouser?
@@exitsexamined Fahfrd and the Gray Mouser is basically the greatest buddy comedy of all time. It follows the friendship of these two very different guys, and has the unique feature of aging them in real time as the years pass between the books. So we get to see them grow old, grow apart, come back together, start families. It's really cool and, most of all, fun. Mike Mignola did a graphic novel adaption that's exceptional. Chronicles of Amber is a lot more high concept, while still being swashbuckling adventure. It kind of has a neo-noir/fantasy crossover vibe. The first book starts with the protagonist waking up in a hospital with amnesia in the modern world, being hunted and slowly learning the truth of his reality. By the end it escalates into this multiversal, political intrigue, with this crazy powerful royal family who's schemes and intrigues put ASOIAF to shame. Also it has this really great magic system, totally unique.
As long as Wizards keep with the 5E ruleset, and the currently releasing rules update is a strong sign that they will keep with this edition for a long time, Dark Sun, Birthright, and a few other settings will never come back. The big thing that Wizards is avoiding is campaign settings that need their own rules. That is why Psionics is being treated as reflavored magic and the House Marks in Eberron are feats. Both Dark Sun and Birthright require new rules to exist. It disappoints me because it means all the unique settings either have to contort to fit into the current rules, or they will not be picked up, but I can understand why that is the case.
Birthright would have more issues with the modern outlook of certain circles than Dark Sun would. At least in Dark Sun all of the "problematic" stuff is cast as evil and the stuff of villains. Birthright revels in the idea that certain families are "better" than others by literal "right of birth" - it's right there in the name. Certain "folx" would have conniptions if they thought about it too much.
With the way 4e set up their power sources for psionics, I feel like that, coupled with the extra oomph the players have, makes it a great ruleset to play Dark Sun in. The books in 4e are fantastic, and the Ashes of Athas organized play events were all great.
@@pheralanpathfinder4897 Perhaps, but my friends and I are going back to it. We never had an issue with it before (it was our first foray into the hobby), and the last 10 years of playing 5e on and off have made us realize we want more technical combat and options. I don't believe 4e isn't focused on social or exploration - those things exist, and we can use them. Overall though, most D&D games are going to revolve around combat at some point.
@@artificeralfHonestly, for a combat oriented game, I'd go with 3.5 or 4th. Nowadays I prefer rules light OSR style play where RP trumps rules and combat is very much a "get it over with so we can get back to slow burn exploration and roleplay." But if I was running the sorts of games I did 20 years ago, for sure I'd be running a system more suited to that playstyle.
@@Syndicate_01 I've found that people play exploration and roleplaying with a mix of rules from all sorts of systems and whatever fits the group vs the rules as written. Our group has started to favor dynamic combats with options to engage, not just walk into a room with 3 goblins, etc. It's another reason why we want to jump back.
Dark Sun for 4e suffered from the same problem all D&D settings suffer since 4e: every one has to be allowed to play everything, no race or class is probidden in any setting. You want to play an orc paladin in Dark Sun, well, you are allowed to do it, even if it really does not fit the theme of the setting.
Outstanding video. I've been playing DS and reading the novels since they came out (Gen X nerd here) and it'll always be my favorite setting. One of the reasons I love it so much is because unlike virtually every other D&D setting, DS actually draws inspiration from non Western European sources (Subsaharan Africa, E/SE Asia, Middle East, Central America, Asia...), which is so rad. I completely understand that the content is potentially sensitive, but on the other hand, it's not as though the setting is *glorifying* things like slavery - quite the opposite, those are the forces in the world that you're fighting against! Besides, don't half the D&D monsters already keep slaves? (Grungs, Drow, Illithids, just to name a few.) Anyway, it'll probably never happen, but I'll be over here dreaming of official support for the setting again someday...
Thanks for the kind words! From your comment I have to ask, do you like conan too? Hyperian age is similar from drawing from a tone of different history / world settings
Apparently there is one true deity left in Dark Sun, a nature goddess who ruthlessly protects the last bastion of uncorrupted nature along with her halfling worshippers.
Lalali-Puy, and she’s not really a god. Just a Dragon King that decided to win people over by trying to restore nature. This has convinced the people of Gulg to worship her as a god.
I really liked the Dark Sun video games. They were not expensive because they were older, but the music, setting and story were so good. It's still in my top 10 games of all time!
Gotta love the one fantasy setting where elves aren't these supreme all knowing beings but instead just wily little rascals that run real fast
7-foot tall little rascals :-D
They still have a pretty solid superiority complex though, so that's comforting!
It's the setting that says "Hey, what if the halflings weren't cute, good, and kind, but instead, hear me out, nasty cannibal murder hobbits?"
@@heavyhebrewso goblins?
Arcanum Gnomes: Eugenics for Fun and Profit!
The Gith are actually what’s left of the Githyanki who invaded Athas, realized what a horrible place it was, and retreated before doing the Githyanki equivalent of “shredding the door” in Monsters, Inc. A few were left behind for some reason and those eventually degenerated into the modern Gith.
Beat me to it.
Ok thanks for that. I always wondered how they were related to the Githyanki and Githzerai but stuck on Athas
I dated a Githyanki once.
Well that and the githzerai dropped a psychic nuke on them.
@@intotheunknown8774
We all did. We all did.
My late best friend LOVED Dark Sun!!! Our last gaming session before he died. I accomplished the unthinkable. I created a LAKE.
My condolences on your friend. Impressive with the lake. My biggest good guy achievement in athas was finding finding jobs for a few dozens former slaves.
Love how athas is a horrible place to live, but, opposite of 40k, there is Hope with a capital H. If we all worked hard for it, it could be a great place to live again.
i think that is a great last thing to do with your friend in the setting. May he rest with God.
@@Nachotaco101 I hope so. Started gaming as DM again for the first time since his death. Caught myself being emotional. Lol.
"Started gaming as DM again"
Your best buddy would've wanted you to do that. Now they can fully rest as their best bud is DM'n again and watch your games....
I salute you sir
As a teenager I was at a D&D convention in Dallas when the box set was released. Tim Brown and Troy Denning spoke about the setting., We were all in awe, at the end asked, “any questions”? The room was silent! It was so different setting we didn’t know how to take it. They also talked about other ideas being kicked around for a new setting. They discussed an idea called “Dungeon World” a hollow world that had no known surface it was 100% dungeon. But TSR went with DarkSun.
Dungeon World sounds cool too, ngl. Learning about all these different dnd settings have been a lot of fun.
They did eventually do Hollow World but it was for BECMI. I think it came out around 1990?
@@blinkspot2667 sounds like fantasy BLAME-like world
Arx fatalis kind of stuff? Sounds cool
@@jamesmorton7852 Hollow World owed more to Pellucidar.
As to "dungeon world" that sounds a lot like Gormenghast . . . or maybe Pandemonium (which TSR already plotted out in that first Manual Of The Planes). Or Elemental Earth. So I guess TSR were planning to figure out how to make the theme work in a campaign?
I think Dark Sun should stay in the hands of the fans. It’s where the spirit thrives.
Honestly that's totally fair, probably a huge reason it's the why it's the way it is!
It is so full over eternally taboo subjects that it will only ever thrive on the fringes. I hope we never lose it, and it will always be a bit punk, a bit metal.
Totally agree
He must not have kept up at all with the scandals of WotC, or what's going on with the entertainment industry in general, to wish for WotC to make a new MODERN version of Dark Sun, sheesh. Lets pray that WotC never touch this setting and puts their stain on it.
Also the Dark Sun planet is just one out of millions of so called "Death Worlds" in the Warhammer 40K universe.
Good, that's where it should be. Any where else would be a death sentence.
Something people often neglect is how gorgeous the artwork is by Brom for dark sun, and how much it does to evoke the setting!
The characters posing against hellish backdrops, often looking feral or fearless. I am in love with his art! To me, Dark Sun is inextricably tied to his vision for it.
I think maybe 70-80% of what makes dark sun dark sun was Brom and his artwork!
I never knew Brom did the artwork for Dark Sun. He is one of my favorite MTG artists when I collected and played.
Brom has been my favorite artist since childhood, after my father bought me one of his art books. Didn’t realize he did dark sun and MTG work! Everything is perfectly connected in my life now, thank you.🙏
I could not agree more. What's funny about it is that Brom eventually left TSR because they wouldn't let him paint/illustrate anything BUT Dark Sun. You can read about it in his art book. I'm just glad we got as much DS art from him as we did.
@@zenoooooo the cover with Rikus and the one with Sadira are my favourites.
I think one of the reasons 5e never did Dark Sun aside from the typical reasons of slavery and such, is that 5e has taken the survival aspect completely out of D&D. Between the 5e version of goodberry and create water, a party never has to worry about foraging, nor carrying enough food, nor loosing that food to raiders, nor getting lost if the ranger has desert as it's favored terrain.
5e and its lore is just sanitized. There's very little truly fantastical beyond spelling slinging and magical creatures. it was made to be easily palpable by the masses and doesn't allow itself any controversy. . .in a world where past lore tells you there ARE evil races and that GOOD vs EVIL is still very much a thing. . .not everything is morally gray.
That and Psionics saturating the setting.
I've had to completely nerf my players and implement 5e hardcore mode to do any sort of survival style game.
Not to mention almost every subclass is a defiler
Me and players have zero interest in making D&d a survival game, but people should have the option of it sounds fun.
As someone who lives in a real desert; all that bare skin and leather will kill you faster. The characters should really wear loose baggy clothing to cover as much skin from the sun as possible for their own survival.
Since Iron is scarce in this setting, then perhaps stone slings, stone tipped arrows and wood boomerangs can serve as a more common ranged weapon as compared to metal tipped arrows.
The bare skin is mostly for the sex appeal in the art. But at least the effects of wearing heavy or even medium armor has been acknowledged.
Much of D&D sacrifices some realism for fun and simplicity.
100%. If I'm not mistaken sunburn is actually one of the mechanics in the setting. Survival is as much of an enemy as any monster.
Think there are theories about how the sun being changed and general mutations, makes no clothing a good idea. But hey, its 80's heavy metal and I love it!
I think alot of that leather is actually insect 'chitin', as giant bugs are one of the few things thst can survive in the wild. Not sure if it's any better for sun exposure.
@@josephperez2004 hmm, that material may have different properties perhaps.
Dark Sun is so pulpy. It's fantastic.
I thought that said pubey
@@aubydauby Way too hot for hair.
what is pulpy about it? i dont think you know what pulp means.
@@plumbthumbs9584 tell me you've never lived in the desert.
I hope wotc never touch's dark sun, it's a brilliant setting and they don't have the writing skills or the directional fortitude to do it justice.
The did remake it back in 4e. So it's possible to see what WotC would do to Dark Dun, because they already did it. It wasn't as bad as it could have been, but it was heavily sanitized.
@@Jimalcoatlyea but they haven't done anything hardly worth anything in quite some time.
They would ruin it. Too scared that some snowflakes might get hurt feelings. Let the fans handle until WotC finally is cleansed of ideological nonsense. WotC would also probably use AI to paint the books^^.
@@lyvekis8824I don’t think WOTC should attempt Dark Sun either but it’s kinda weird to see someone go “tough guy” snowflake talk about board games for nerds.
@@Jimalcoatl That is exactly why they can't and every IP in their hands dies.
Back in the 90s the dark Sun novels were my favorite. I think my favorite part of the setting is that halflings, one of the least respected races in any other setting are one of the most feared in this setting. No one wants to run into a halfling tribe.
I always loved the idea of Athas halfings somehow finding a portal into FR and just literally terrorizing everything
@@exitsexamined As far as I know there is a neighborhood in Sigil's Hive called New Tyr.
As a dm I l8ve the little fuzzy murders ❤❤❤
Dark Sun was a PvE game more than any other setting. Mere survival was the goal. You didn’t try to win against a sorcerer-king, you tried to avoid their attention.
I can remember playing a Water Hunter tribe elf druid that thrived by using magic to create oases in the rocky badlands away from the cities. I started with rock-cut shelters and kivas filled with magically-created water. Protecting those sources of water became the focal point of the campaign rather quickly, because anything that you can use to survive, someone or something will try to take away.
This oozes 80s gnarliness. It has an edge that reminds me of like a Conan The Barbarian from Hell. Super metal, super interesting.
If you like Conan, stay tuned to the channel in the next few weeks!
If your starting a dark sun themed power metal band, ill be fan number one.
well, more '90s. GenX in our early 20s. Before Monte Cook found NIN and did his Planescape work, which was even edgier.
A very even handed look at Dark Sun. It's one of my favorites because it is so unusual and weird and brutal. I do wish WoTC would sell this IP to a company that would do Dark Sun well and not go over the top.
Yeah Tim tried to buy it, but they just want to sit on it.
WotC is no longer capable of stewarding D&D as a whole.
@@HenriFaust Never have been.
@@ChrisMoneymakerDHRG just a prediction, they will make like 4 more games with this being like the 5th not even half finished, then the company dies off but the workers will move onto other game studios or even the next "souls game"
welp, now Elon is going to buy it
I love the fan theory that says the whole world of Athas isn't a desert, we play in an isolated area that has no contact with the thriving outer world, like a colossal version of the Mournland.
That’s kind of true, there’s a rainforest area where the Halflings came from and the insect people come from somewhere else, so the ENTIRE planet isn’t just a giant desert. Just a lot of it.
There was a fan theory floating around before they fleshed the history of Athas out that Athas was actually the distant future of Faerun.
@@thecosmic8248There is a large Thri-Kreen empire that exists beyond the Jagged Cliffs that is probably where most of the insects originally came from.
@@thecosmic8248 you might be reffering to the "green age"
Ah Eberron my beloved
32:21 This is not happening. Larian Studios mentioned that WotC fired the entire staff that liaised with Larian on _Baldur's Gate 3,_ and Larian announced that they will not pursue any more projects with WotC. The laid off department was also the only one at WotC that turned a profit according to Hasbro investor reports. Both Hasbro and WotC are currently in financial straits, and it's looking like WotC will go the way of TSR now.
Great. More divinity crap.
Why did they do that? I do not understand the financial analysis
Magic the Gathering is very profitable.
D&D had never been profitable outside of licensing the IP for games or the 80s cartoon etc..
@@TheEvolver311 Ok, but that doesn't really explain why they choose to sack the relevant team when they turn a profit, and they were involved in the massive success that BG3 was
@patrickreynolds5463 Hasbros new CEO not WotC
And they didn't fire the team etc... Larian games was under license to make BG3 and they did.
Honestly the way around the problematic elements is pretty simple. Wrap it in plastic, slap a warning sticker on it that basically says “Hey this book is deals with some heavy topics that some people might not be comfortable with and is recommended for adults only. Discretion is advised.” Put it out there and let the consumer decide.
That's a smart suggestion, but the issue is that Hasbro won't risk their overall reputation over a niche role playing setting. There are a lot of bored wannabe social justice warriors out there. Personally I think this is the coolest setting D&D ever created and Warhammer 40k is arguably far more extreme. There is a large fan base for dark fantasy and horror and the fact remains that human history is filled horrible things too. Better to channel the dark stuff into role playing games than real life in my opinion. Ironically you don't see protests with Call of Duty video games and you can say they're even more fucked up. Just making an observations and for the record I'm 18 years Active Duty military.
@@poolplayerbrian It's not social justice types who would be against Dark Sun. It's the money people. Dark Sun isn't ad' friendly, it's not generic oatmeal fantasy with universal appeal. It's not going to get investors excited. It has opinions and heart and soul. It might turn some people off. That's not the kind of thing WotC are willing to touch. The line gotta go up.
Think people read?
@ Well 1) They are buying a book so I would assume so but more importantly 2) If they ignore or fail to read a label that is entirely their problem not the publisher and/or creators of a book.
The elves are interesting. The bride kidnapping/"kidnapping" is an interesting historical fact, generally it was kind of the agreed upon way to create more genetic diversity (though they didn't know the term at the time) between tribes to avoid inbreeding too much and inject some new blood into the tribe. Same type of system existed with things like cattle raids too - just kind of some cultural thing every tribe did to each other as a matter of life. Ireland specifically has a long history of that.
Obviously the idea of this system is terrible now in a modern context. It's just kind of an interesting historical parallel they added.
It's one of those things where yeah, realistically is AWFUL. Don't do.
But that's, kind of what fantasy/fiction is for? Yes, be critical, acknowledge it would be horrible in REAL world. Doesn't mean a compelling and incredible story can't be crafted out of it.
Interestingly, that was among the first prohibitions Ghengis Khan instituted after unifying Mongolia
Dark sun deserves baldurs gate or pathdinder style rpg.
Funny fact, BG1 actually came out of a Dark Sun PnP campaign.
"Congratulations on making your character, enjoy the land of Dark Sun. "
5 minutes in game: "You are now a slave."
10 minutes in: "You Died."
As with many good things of old they are not possible in this progressive environment of today.
@@camerongunn7906 aka Kenshi lol
Complete noob when it comes to modern game development. With modern game engines, assets and so on how difficult is it to make a rpg that looks and plays well?
Dark Sun is one of my favorite DnD worlds. Read the books as a kid and it has so much potential to be re made into a video game or series.
There were books? Not rule books, but story novels?
@@TheLavachildYes, Dungeons and Dragons has hundreds of full length novels. Pirating them in .epub format is unfortunately the best way to get a decent collection of them.
it was both a video game and a series
There was a video game of dark sun
@@TheLavachildthere's a bunch of novels, they're a great read, full of unusual stuff. Really unique. I found them in epub format online.
I sometimes joke with my friends that my next character will be a Preserver who managed to escape Athas and is now absolutely ecstatic he lives in a world where it rains.
I think you just created my next NPC.
@@robertporter6683 Glad I could help!
I played D&D as a kid, then went like a decade without playing. In my early 20s I moved in with a couple friends, and they were all playing D&D, so I completely jumped on board.
It was Dark Sun, and it was brutal. I loved it, we all loved it. Our DM was fantastic. He was the kind of DM who would put in hours upon hours of work, learning the lore, creating the adventure, etc... and he was super into the setting, so he did a great job of introducing the world to us, explaining the racial differences and stuff. Ah, good days.
It was wonderful to help guide your research with this. If you ever have any other D&D topics, you know how to find me, and I'm always happy to share what I know!
fun fact, all the sorcerer kings are dragons, only one went back to goodness and strived to become an avangion. you guys gotta actually read the setting material.
@@Brightblade_Plays yes, we discussed this, and I was mindful about exactly this sort of grumbling, because I would grumble too! But this isn’t meant to be a deep dive into every twist and turn; to fit in a 30-odd minute form factor, Otto had to omit certain things. On top of that, this is really more aimed at people who are unfamiliar with the setting, as a sort of pitch; I think any DM would want the whole Rajaat/Borys/Sorcerer King relationship to be one they can unspool themselves rather than one the players already know.
Seriously thanks again! Will 100% take you up on that!
There's something inherently silly about post society collapse settings that once you hear, you cannot unhear. It makes absolutely no sense to have entire armies built like Hulk Hogan when food is rare and famine is common, where did all the protein come from? How are you feeding all your slaves (things, DIE when you don't feed them)? Where the heck do these giant hulking monsters find enough food to sustain themselves when the desert is nearly devoid of all life? Many Real life deserts have a shocking amount of life.
A fair point, my interpretation is to have the bulk of any army be made up of half dying slave chaf, with a core of elites that take the bulk of the food and best equipment. Perhaps even consuming the weaker chaf soldiers on the regular
So there is an ecosystem explained. The world is not entirely Dunes. The city states have resources, agriculture and live stock, but they sorcerer kings have the monopoly of It.
My GM justified it with one word: canibalism.
I DM Darksun, which is not a post-society setting but rather a dystopian world characterized by fortress city-states ruled with an iron fist, alongside wasteland tribes surviving off the land. Athas teems with life, featuring abundant insectoid and reptilian species. There is plenty of meat available for groups strong enough to hunt it. It has been thousands of years since the world was green, so the ecosystem has evolved; various types of cacti and desert vegetation provide food and crafting materials.
The cities are ruled by sorcerer-kings, with the majority of the population enslaved. Considerable effort and slave labor are dedicated to food production. Merchant houses transport goods between the city-states, resulting in a robust economy.
This setting is brutal and harsh, actively confronting players with the evils of tyranny and oppression, leaving them with no choice but to fight against it. What WotC gets wrong is that the real-world evil of slavery provides the characters with a genuine reason to resist. The original metaplot involved the party participating in the overthrow of the sorcerer-kings and sowing the seeds of liberation across the land, ultimately seeking the magic to restore life to Athas.
Current D&D has become so watered down and politically correct that the setting is viewed as problematic rather than recognizing its underlying social justice narrative. I would hate for WotC to remake Darksun; they would likely strip it of its greatness and sanitize it for their current fanbase.
WotC did remake Darksun in 4e, and yes it was watered down and sanitized.
One of the (many) things that I loved and love of Dark Sun, is that is humbles even the most OP characters (and powergamers).
No matter if you're a 20th level demigod... you still have to find and carry enough water to survive. And dehydration inflicts Constitution damage (and in AD&D 2e, ability scores were fixed, they didn't increase with levels). When you reach Con 0, you are dead. No saving throw of any kind. So it took something like 4 or 5 days of dehydration to kill any character of any level. Fireball won't save you (but a water cleric might).
This brings a reality check to the PCs, where they have to worry about mundane things like food, water and shelter.
Further sourcebooks expanded the rules to include: high temperatures (that cause hit point damage), extreme winds (that inflicted to hit penalties and slowed movement), and toxic fumes and other choking hazards.
Compared to Athas, Ravenloft is a paradise. Any Athasian would gleefully love to get sucked in by the mists.
"OMG!! There's trees and grass and lakes and rain and it's cool!! Happy day, happy day!!"
😭
Part of Dark Sun does exist on the Plane of Dread: the lost city-state of Kalidnay
Depends upon the domain, but Athas is truly horror.
"You're saying we can cast magic here without destroying the environment!?"
"WATER?! Moderate climate? Food? Trees? Can I just stay here?"
Ravenloft thrall: We live in fear as subjects of a dark lord!
Athasian Wizard: Who cares!? There's actual magic in the air!!!!!
So, I got into a campaign and the GM reveled it was going to be set in the Dark Sun universe. This video came on the day of the session 0. I'm so glad!
@@intheouts It's not cheating knowing the setting to make a background to your character. Imagine if I made a Fairy Cleric with a very whimiscal characteriscs, went with my sheet done just to be informed at the session 0 that I can't use a cleric nor a Fairy and my background doesn't match the base tone of the world. What if I didn't knew of the Psion class beforehand? I wouldn't even think that it was a nice try, which is! It's only cheating if you read the planned adventure (which isn't the case because the GM is writing the story, just using the setting and the video doesn't go so far in the lore), or the stat blocks.
It's only cheating if you metagame.
@@nealaikin3868 Right? Dude's logic is that you can't learn a language before traveling to another country. Learning language and basic culture isn't the same as cheating the banking system.
@@intheouts The video doesn't get in the campaign territory. That's the point, the argument is broken.
@@intheouts The video doesn't get in the campaign territory. That's the point, the argument is broken.
Great summary description. I used to run a Dark Sun campaign. I own most of the novels and RPG books, and you did a great job of summarizing the setting in a concise and easy to understand way. One D&D 2024 needs to bring the setting back because it is so different and much more challenging than other settings!
I should note that I have zero familiarity with the 4e version of Dark Sun - honestly didn't even know it existed. IMO, nothing from 4e ever should have existed, so that's non-canon to me.
Oh is 4e not good? I've never actually played it myself only researched!
@@exitsexamined Yeah, that edition lost its way. I suppose it could have been possible for good Dark Sun module content to still exist from the 4e period, but having to play it in the 4e system would have made it hard to enjoy.
@@exitsexamined 4e is an excellent return to the tactical side of D&D. The 4e Dark Sun revival tried as you said to rollback some of the more civilising developments from the novels, while introducing the setting to new players. Wayne Reynolds did a fair bit of the art, which was also a nice update & nod to Brom's vivid, high contrast style.
OldeGraybeard has a lot of 4e stuff on his channel, and Matt Colville has several videos discussing the cool aspects of the edition. It got a lot of online hate for a mix of valid & silly reasons, but is worth checking out.
As a long time fan of Dark Sun, I always love to see people discover it. It's insane. I love it so much.
For reference, the Dragon Kings are 20th level wizard (defilers) and 20th level Clerics , so essentially 40th level demi gods
They also grant spells to a special priest class that worships them
Being a defiler gives you a better spell progression than a standard wizard, preservers advanced as a normal wizard.
All charter stats were generated using a different than standard method, 4D4+4 instead of 4D6 and dropping the lowest die, so you would generate 8-20 for stats before bonuses from race.
Half giants had a shifting alignment rule
They had these odd flip book stand up modules that were part player aid?
Halfings liked using Elf shin bones as swords...
It is a wonderful place.
40th Character level was God level in 3.5e..... Those shits were basically invicible
WotC Will call a fantasy setting "too problematic" and then go and hire actual predators as judges in kids' matches in Magic...
...Then protect those predators and malign anyone who calls them out.
Typical Hasbro and WotC
"problematic" they say to a game culture based on islam that WoTc is so keen on to respect these days. oh boy, no wonder they hire kidly flidlers (edit, 33:50 in the quran)
They did 3 years ago in the release where there said they were doing spelljammer. Was in the archive since years ago. The info wasn’t when spelljammer came out was when they said they were remaking it for 5e so was a whole ago
Such as...?
Opening Intro: If you could live in one fantasy setting, what would it be?
Me: NotAthasNotAthasNotAthasNotAthasNotAthasNotAthasForTheLoveOfAllThatIsHolyNotAthas!
haha, I guess if you're a Thri-kreen
And not Warhammer settings.
This is hands down still my favorite setting for D&D. I get tired of the "this is problematic" argument. Last time I checked if someone doesn't like it, they can just choose not to play it.
It's exhausting keeping up with the moral outrage of clownworld people these days.
They are the worst.
And it's a fantasy world! Nobody is saying "this is the right way to court your mate" or "having slaves is right". If I remember correctly the first book series for Darksun was about a slave rebellion!
No mistake: slavery is a terrible thing and nobody should ever be a slave. But in a fantasy world? Hell, one of the main antagonists in my world are the slavers!
The 'its problematic' most likely does not refer to political topics or anything. Shit even Faeurun has canon slavery, rape, genocide etc. If it was so problematic then they would have removed all of it but they haven't. Many of these 'problematic' elements exist in BG3 even.
It refers to the fact that DND 5e is very different to DND DarkSun. The 'problematic' part is adapting DND 5e rules to Dark Sun. Doing so would completely change DnD. People think that Dark Sun 5e would just he regular 5e in a grimdark world, but so much of 5e would have to be changed that it would be almost a different system. There are far more survival mechanics built in, so many systems that just work differently in dark sun compared to normal 5e.
I want more dark sun content, but yeah making a modern day dark sun would be problematic because gameplay wise it would change dnd drastically, and players would not expect it/want that level of change, and wotc doesn't wanna take the risk.
@@theholypopechodeii4367 this reminds me of the explanation made by Gary Gygax for his decisions on the original edition of Dnd: adventuring is brutal, unpredictable, and stressful. The reason adventurers do what they do isn't for excitement, glory, or fun - it's because they don't have a stable job they can actually survive on otherwise, and they're going to have times where life is just unrelenting hard.
Iirc the original dungeons and dragons said that the DM should be keeping careful track of time, food, and wealth in the setting. Essentially players would leave for an adventure because otherwise their debts would catch up with them and leave them high and dry otherwise. 😅
WOTWC really ought to be licensing their unused campaign settings -- they're so incredibly fleshed-out and detailed -- to third-parties to do more with, if not for tabletop gaming then for video games at least.
That's a super interesting idea if they licensed out settings, especially should do it for video games!
That would require WoTC and Hasbro to be capable of having good ideas.
Which, given their financial situation…. I doubt it’s gonna happen.
They WERE doing that for awhile, some 20 years back (they put Dragonlance back into Weiss and Hickman's hands, and gave Ravenloft to White Wolf which... while far from perfect, was a damn sight better than the 5e version), but current management would never do that- What, and risk having people make better products than they can? Psh, get out of here.
Some years ago the German publisher Ulisses asked WotC if they could reprint the German version of Star Frontiers. Initially they said yes, but after a while WotC changed their opinion and said that Ulisses could not do this because they wanted to do something with it.
Someone mentioned desert hobbits to me and didn't understand why i was traumatized for a moment.
Honestly the halfings here are a bit traumatizing
I ran DS with 3.5 Ed using some great little articles from Dragon and Dungeon magazines. The players hadn’t played in the setting before, only used to Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance etc. Cannibalistic halflings with razor sharp chakrams hunting them for two sessions. Good times, lol. Chucked in some rage virus “zombies” as well. They still talk about it fondly decades later. 😂
Standard Halflings invite you round for dinner: Nice!
Athasian Halflings invite you round for dinner: Hell no!
@@triedtherest BG2 halflings from the sphere
Cannibal jungle hobbits
An all time best and rich setting. WOTC would turn it into a bland dumpster fire now if they tried to remake it.
They recently redid Planescape and people seemed to enjoy that at least
@@exitsexaminedstop pointing out that these hyperbolic takes are nonsense
I like Dark Sun. It has a bit of 'sword & planet' genre in it (like John Carter of Mars) which I like.
I remember seeing Dark Sun books in bookstore back in the day, but didn't know anything about it beyond the cover art until this video. As both a fan of brutal, Heavy Metal/Frank Frazetta style fantasy and a HUGE fan of intricate world building, this fascinates the hell out of me!
I love scenarios where the world is broken and dying, and desperate "survivors" have to make painful choices between sticking to their morals and still being alive when the sun rises tomorrow, whether it's in movies, books, RPGs, or computer games. Dark Sun seems to scratch all of these itches. I'm glad I stumbled across this.
If you love the style definitely check out more of Brom art! If you're into that style fantasy do you know any others? Would love to check out more of them on the channel
IIRC there is one way out of Athas. You’d have to find the ruins of Kalidnay, which was taken to Ravenloft when the sorcerer king murdered half the people in his city. This implies that the ruins are connected to the other plane where the city still exists. In theory, you could use the mist to reach the Kalidnay in Ravenloft, then escape the city and travel to a different land, defeat the big bad there, and then return to that land’s original plane.
Genuinely enjoying your videos, so many of these topics have always made me wonder, especially your video on Eyewitness. You have also brought many cool new things to my attention. Thanks for the videos!
As a child of the 80's flawed hero's characters and no win situations are what makes for good stories and a good RPG. Dark sun was a song that might not be for everyone but it was unique.
My own campaign is influanced by ravenloft for 80% and Dark sun for 20% and this inspired me to delve a bit more into dark sun again. thanks for that
Extremely well written script and the delivery is s pleasure to listen to. You are a very talented writer and presenter.
Dark Sun is my favourite campaign alongside Hollow World. Kinda holdin out hope it gets the same BG3 treatment in the forseeable future
That would be amazing, but I guess Larian seems to be off DnD so just hopefully if other devs step up to it they do it right!
Dude, same. I exist of FAR different ends of the AD&D setting. I LOVE Dark Sun and I love Mystara.
Dark Sun is so immensely fascinating and is truly unique, even amongst other dark and gritty settings like Conan, Mad Max, and the various multitudes of one-off films from the 70s and 80s. Definitely one of my top three favourite d&d settings and it's not number 3, lol
I even modeled one of the eras of my own OC fantasy setting after Dark Sun and Conan
The culture at WOTC would have to radically change before they could be trusted with the setting
I agree 100% I wish they would license it out to a third party letting them do the dark and cringy material.
Amen! These snowflake can't handle orcs and harsh language. A world where slavery is not only common but normal, and even preferred at times, is just too real for their fragile sensibilities.
With the way the video game industry is going, one can only hope that this will only be a matter of time.
They can't be trusted with dungeons and dragons at ALL
WotC and DnDBeyond are based in Seattle. They’ve got like NO chance to make the needed changes to business culture.
THANK YOU for making this amazing video about this setting as a DM and creator for tabletop games its amazingly sad that those rare gems of stories are not in the spotlight anymore.
i write my own stories to honor those from times to times but its not enough.
thank you once again you are an amazing creator.
Bring Back the Cannibal Hobbits of Dark Sun! 😁
That certainly puts second breakfast in a new light.
I have the AD&D 2e version of Dark Sun and Spelljammer converted to Old School Essentials. Found it online in a forum. I havent ran it yet, but it looks to be a complete conversion and very well done.
Great video! Feels like this setting took some inspiration from Clark Ashton Smith's Zothique and John Norman's Gor.
Very well put together video. My favourite D&D setting.
Thank you for the kind words!
I never got into D&D but the DOS Dark Sun game from 1993 was my introduction to it. It's so crazy to me going back to it now and seeing how much bigger the campaign is beyond what was in the game.
I had this box set gifted to me by my dad when I was 16. It changed and influenced the tone of my stoytelling to a point of having permeated everything I run and have since. I am now 42 years old, a full time storyteller and game master, and run deeply immersive, very fleshed ou,t RP heavy, brutally challenging games and campaigns with very mature themes and dark subject matter. Often, I build my own worlds or make exhaustive adaptations of existing game settings for all kinds of TTRPG's into versions of themselves but changed for the worse, and in some even most minor way- more resembling the ravaged, post-pocalyptic, grim-dark, harsh brutality of DS. Thanks, dad! for a lifelong 'nailed it' gift!
Love this video, sir. You handled and covered everything well enough to be alluring, informative, and encouraging. Represent! Subscribing this and your gaming channel!
Hey thank you so much for the kind words and welcome to the channel.
You sound like an incredible game master and hopefully one day I can join one of your games. It's people like you who make the TTRPG community what it is! That sounds like an amazing gift from dad!
Thanks for this great video! This world, with that Original Dark Sun branding and art, came out the year I started my first job, babysitting, specifically so I could afford to buy all those D&D books, magazines (Dragon! Dungeon!), and all the materials coming out in a flood then (Monstrous Compendium Binder Packs!) at the start of my D&D journey. Dark Sun has fascinated me ever since. Well done and thx:)
I remember MUDs, too, though that was a neighboring Geekdom for me, like larping or MTG. I don't remember anyone calling them M.U.D's at the time; we just called them "muds" (like wet dirt) and I recall at the time they were understood to stand for Multi-User Dungeons. Again, I was an outsider. So it's great to hear all this from a younger nerd, taking me back, and it was a nice return to a horrible world - one of the worst places, from a character's perspective, of all the places there were in D&D (A Game About Warfare). Dark Sun was and is evil, and it's worth exploring, for all the grandeur and excitement, and as a cautionary tale that has some value in our present times. Again, thanks for the video essay! I'll be back for more.
@@Lexicophage lol I also mentioned in research that definition of MUD, but apparently the developers made the acronym “dimension” instead due to a lack of true dungeons on Athas, which got a big laugh from me
There is another aspect when it comes to the balancing act between Defilers and Preservers. Its VERY difficult for a Defiler to repent and become a Preserver, impossible if one is too far down the road of a Defiler.
On the flip side its very EASY to slide from Preserver to Defiler! There are ways to remove the taint of defiling if you are playing a Preserver, but that involves a Druid, and its not something that comes for free. No such thing as Altruism on Athas....
Not sure what its like now, but back when I played Dark Sun Preservers actually had the potential to become MORE powerful than Defilers. Defiling is a far faster method to gain power, but Preserving has greater eventual potential....
Problem is very few Preservers become that powerful. They are either killed by the Sorcerer Kings or Dragons, or they fall into Defiling....
It made playing a Preserver Wizard actually interesting as you CONSTANTLY had these moral choices to make because Preservers CAN use defilement to gather the power needed to cast, and sometimes you have no choice BUT to do so, either that or die!
$20 bucks! A whole boxed set back then. It was the one I got and ran from the group. I think it's noteworthy that in the early 90s, it fits the vision of environmental collapse. Captain Planet came out the same time, so the defilers precipitating the post-apocalypse setting it was.
In hindsight, the dragon, a creature of hubris, and the opponent being a giant month, being Godzilla and Mothra is obvious.
3 random notes: For 2nd edition, Dark Sun characters attributes also ran to 20 (without racial variations). That helped to make everyone feel more than any other setting.
A halfing or thri-kreen's favorite meal is an elf.
Part of the fall of TSR was sales of the novels (of which I read many many many)--specifically, what happens when they don't sell. For mass market paperbacks. Booksellers could return hardcovers and trades for credit--and those excess books would be sold on for cheap as "remainders". For years, mass markets only needed the cover to be returned for the credit, but you can't sell that mass market stripped of the cover and had to get trashed. Lots of other obstacles and mistakes in TSR history, but those books not selling was a chunk of it.
We played Dark Sun for a little bit 'back in the day'. A time when so many RPGs came out there was no way to sustain them all. But we had a Thri Kreen and Cannibal Haflings. I was happy I finally made it through session and obtaining our objective. Only to die to a random encounter 2 days away from making it home. Shredded by a much higher level Bullet. I am actually working on a Drak Sun Mash Up. Its fun making stories or ideas in this setting.
It's a pretty great setting to be a thri-kreen though!
Fantastic video as always. This channel is criminally under subscribed.
Hey thank you so much, it's crazy how many amazing channels only have >1000k but it's always awesome when people give smaller channels a chance
The designers at wotc already answered why they won’t do anything with the setting again, it has way too many themes that are not in line with the company, and if they had to remake a book setting, they would have to change so much of the original setting that it would not be Dark Sun anymore, so they just don’t do anything with it. I think it’s for the best, if we learned something about current wotc designers it’s that they are really bad at making good material with complex themes like slavery, violence, etc… they don’t understand Dark Sun, and it’s best they don’t try anything with it
No gay or black tomboyish women ?
@queenmedesa look at you all triggered
@@queenmedesaGrace Jones character in Conan would be right at home in Athas. So yeah.
@@TheEvolver311 Ah, got it, so those who object to tokenism shoehorned into things as a result of activist lunatics who are triggered are the real triggered ones. Accusing your enemies of that which you yourself are guilty. Goebbels would be proud.
Great video! Darksun was one of the first pc RPGs I played, till this day still such a captivating world that influenced some home brew campaigns. I really would like to revisit the games I'm sure there was lots that went over my head at that age. E
extremely underrated
I think there is a market for safe and confortable products and for Mature 18+ brutal and unhinged products. Not everything need to be family friendly. Maybe mainline D&D (or whatever) need to be safe, but there is room for fringe madness.
Totally agree, hopefully if wotc doesn't fill the void something else will step up to the plate
You mean gay friendly
@@queenmedesano, piss off
I remember seeing the boxed set for the first time in the store... psionics, high ability scores, awesome art! They made a great decision having Brom do all the art, and Troy Denning's flavor text brought it all together. I was actually in Judo classes with Troy in 1993, so that was awesome! I think one of my favorite concepts was the idea of a character tree... you already have your backups ready at day one of the campaign!
Whoa! You took a judo class with Troy? That's amazing haha how was that?
Brom's Artwork is Dark Sun. It's amazing
I've always loved Dark Sun because I'm a huge Conan the Cimmerian Barbarian nerd.
And I love brutal, survivalistic TTRPGs.
Love this setting. Played similar settings, homebrewn, low-magic, bronze-age era in Mesopotamish environs.
I played a half-giant wizard, named Dim. He pretended to be the “dumb brute” stereotype. His spellbook was embroidered on hand/arm wraps. I really enjoyed that character.
Bring him back! We need Dim
@@exitsexamined We were using a 3e adaptation of Dark Sun. Half-giants were large, had +8 str, -2 Dex, +4 con, -6 int, -2 wis, and -4 cha (or something close to that), fortunately we rolled for stats so I was able to get decent mental scores. “Only” had an 18 str, though.
Dark sun is my favorite fantasy setting of all time. I love how it reimagines a classical fantasy world into pure post apocalyptic sword and sorcery. I'm glad that wotc doesn't want to touch it.
It would only destroy what makes dark sun special.
It touches on themes about slavery, fighting for freedom, environmentalism, racism and survival in a oppressive world without being obnoxious.
They already did in planescapes and they didn't ruin it but that doesn't mesh with the edge lord group think
Dark Sun reminds me of this game Kenshi lol
I just bought kenshi while working on the video, whoa maybe it was a subconscious connection haha
@@exitsexamined Yeah I think Carl Jung called it Synchronization or smth like that lol
A game where being sold into slavery is one of the better outcomes
@@comyuse9103 As opposed to getting eaten by fogmen and cannibals or getting caught by skin bandits.
Dark sun shattered lands by SSI was fantastic, and the ad&d setting books were hilarious.
A great video, I was enthralled by Gamma World during that time and never gave Dark Sun a try
Hey thanks so much! I haven't checked out gamma world so much, what's the deal with it? maybe I'll cover it eventually!
Ahhh Dark Sun, where even the grass is trying to kill you.
Absolutely my favorite D&D Setting. The only 2E stuff I still have are the corebooks (plus Psionics handbook, of course) and most of the Dark Sun material (though I do regret getting rid of my Planescape stuff years and years ago).
6:36 .."..and peals of thunder roll unexplained across the vast tablelands."
Quite a cool ttrpg meta-comment there.
Thank you, this was a lot of fun.
I LOVE IT! Would you classify this under a Sword-and-sandal genre? The lithic technology and architecture has a very bronze age vibe to it, I think. Which I love it! I have such a love-hate relationship with Traditional fantasy. I love it. I read the hobbit in middle school, I played WoW back in the day, I even LARPed and have worked at Ren fairs. But its all just so played out. You can't excite me. I know all the joke, all the aesthetics, all the archetypes. I know all the worlds and any "new" world you show me is just going to be what I've already seen. It all looks the same and feels the same. Give me a Bronze age, Conan-style desert world!
If you like conan stay tuned to the channel in the next few weeks haha
There's nothing "Bronze age" or particularly "desert world" about Conan's setting
conan literally wears full plate armor and Half of the kingdoms in the setting are based off the middle ages. How is that "bronze age" in any way?
Not desert, but Greyhawk is generally more inspired by Conan. Dark Sun was a lot more John Carter (Barsoom / Mars) meets Jack Vance's Dying Earth. I might argue there's some Gene Wolfe in there too, but I'd have to ask Troy Denning to be sure LOL
Dark Sun in 2e was a brutal thing to experience. I had my players rationing water and a couple of them died of dehydration. I still read about Athas almost 25 years since the last time I played it. City by the silt sea was one of my favourite expansions and the book Brazen Gambit is one of my favourite fantasy books ever.
@@thepavl I WISH we had time in the script to talk about Dregoth, and how he was positioned as the next big bad of the setting! CbtSS is a fantastic GM book
@@EndyHawk and you know for me the name alone invokes such mystery and dread. There is a poem by E. A. Poe that was made into a song by the band The Ocean called city in the sea which I have weirdly connected with Giustenal
@@thepavl I have some pretty odd tastes in "table music", and when I ran my dark sun campaign I used a ton of Brian Eno stuff he made for art displays (Music for Installations if you're curious) for deep desert soundscapes. So much desert music is "Arabian stereotypical", and Eno seemed to capture the "alien wastes" feel to me, but if we had ever made it out to Giustenal I would have used Silent Hill music. The whole "psychic drone that lures you to your doom" is too much of a parallel for me not to use something like White Noiz or A World of Madness.
Dark Sun and Spelljammer are my fave D&D settings, hence my art ;)
Also wrote up a simplified psionics system to help make it easier for players, was published in Polyhedron long time ago
Nice! Do you remember what issue? Might be one i have in my collection.
@@andersand6576 "Psionics Simplified" was title of the article, iirc
Swapped much of the Psionics handbook stuff for Players Handbook spells, tweaked, to make psionics WAY easier to run
sorry I'd need ot dig it out still have the magazine but, take bit finding it, was when Polyhedron was being run from England iirc
got lots of freebies for writing articles for it ;)
My RUclips channel has few of my very old Spelljammer and 1 Dark Sun animations :)
DeviantArt channel, same name SilverbladeTE, has lots of my D&D art
The novels are great and it was some of the best nights ever back when THACO ruled the land.
Someone binge watched Thundarr the barbarian while crafting the lore for Dark Suns.
I am so excited to see your channel take off, loving your videos
Hey thanks so much! Have you been watching the channel for awhile?
8:05 one of two options. Everyone who goes there dies of thirst or the second one there is a jungle and to be fair who the hell whould go back to that scorching hell, just stay there eating coconuts and hakuna matata
Dark Sun was the one D&D setting I really liked. That said, I never thought it fit well with D&D. I have a bunch of the material from the original edition and have often thought about using it with Basic Roleplaying, which I think would capture the danger, desperation, and struggle better.
I think it's interesting because it really was by design that DS doesn't fit with the rest of DnD. They had to stretch to make the classes and even existing races fit!
I would say Berserk is probably a rival for a fantasy setting.
I actually haven't checked out ravenloft yet but I will 100% make a video on it in the future, what's it deal?
@exitsexamined I didn't mention Ravenloft, but Ravenloft is a pretty dark setting. Not to the extent of Darksun, though.
I said Berserk, where the whole world is screwed, and everyones angel/savior is actually the demon that brought the apocalypse.
As the video rolled in automatically in the background and I wasn't watching, just heard the intro, I thought - oh, more Warhammer content.
This, ravenloft, and spelljammer were some of my favorites back in the day.
I actually haven't checked out ravenloft yet but I will 100% make a video on it in the future, what's it deal?
And all of them were dumbed down by WotC for 5e. Well, those they dared to touch.
The DOS games (the Spartacus copycat & Wake of the Ravager) should get a remastered version (remake)! 🤗
I was unhappy when Forgotten Realms became so high fantasy. The early stuff, including the glimpses we saw in Dragon before it became the official setting were gritty. It was perfect for me. I incorporated several things from Pendragon into my ADD campaign like the personality traits. When Dark Sun came out that broke up my little group, some of them wanted that, I was the one who laid out effort and bucks and wanted my well developed FR setting. Oh well.
I remember playing Dark Sun role-playing games on the PC in the 90s. I remember the dragons and the dry clean and the desert and Magic sucking up the life force from everything it touches. One of my most pleasant memories of a child was reading the Dark Sun fantasy novel tribe of one.
Did you read Prism Pentad? Also excellent!
@@exitsexamined That doesn't ring a bell. It is now on my list for this month. :)
Out of all the D&D settings, Dark Sun is certainly the most unique.
Unique like Conan, Dune and Mad Max?
Awesome video! I didnt know about any of this.
Kenshi is basically low fantasy dark sun.
Can't wait for kenshi 2, man
Just found your channel and I love your subject matter and content! I'm burning through your catalogue really fast. Hope it's not rude, but I wanted to throw out a couple topic suggestions. I'm a huge Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser, and it's got a lot of interesting subjects to cover. Shockingly no tv or film adaption, which the series seemed almost perfect for, but there is the awesome D&D box set, and Leiber's larger relationship with early D&D in general.
The thing I'd most like to see you discuss though would be my favorite fantasy series of all time, the Chronicles of Amber. I am shocked there's no film or TV adaption of this, though honestly kind of grateful.
Anyways, keep up the good work!
Hey thanks so much for the kind words and for the great suggestions! I've wrote them all down in my mega list of death. What's the vibe of Chronicles of Amber and Gray Mouser?
@@exitsexamined Fahfrd and the Gray Mouser is basically the greatest buddy comedy of all time. It follows the friendship of these two very different guys, and has the unique feature of aging them in real time as the years pass between the books. So we get to see them grow old, grow apart, come back together, start families. It's really cool and, most of all, fun. Mike Mignola did a graphic novel adaption that's exceptional.
Chronicles of Amber is a lot more high concept, while still being swashbuckling adventure. It kind of has a neo-noir/fantasy crossover vibe. The first book starts with the protagonist waking up in a hospital with amnesia in the modern world, being hunted and slowly learning the truth of his reality. By the end it escalates into this multiversal, political intrigue, with this crazy powerful royal family who's schemes and intrigues put ASOIAF to shame. Also it has this really great magic system, totally unique.
As long as Wizards keep with the 5E ruleset, and the currently releasing rules update is a strong sign that they will keep with this edition for a long time, Dark Sun, Birthright, and a few other settings will never come back. The big thing that Wizards is avoiding is campaign settings that need their own rules. That is why Psionics is being treated as reflavored magic and the House Marks in Eberron are feats. Both Dark Sun and Birthright require new rules to exist. It disappoints me because it means all the unique settings either have to contort to fit into the current rules, or they will not be picked up, but I can understand why that is the case.
Birthright would have more issues with the modern outlook of certain circles than Dark Sun would. At least in Dark Sun all of the "problematic" stuff is cast as evil and the stuff of villains. Birthright revels in the idea that certain families are "better" than others by literal "right of birth" - it's right there in the name. Certain "folx" would have conniptions if they thought about it too much.
Great video man!
hey thanks so much for the kind words! Hope you like the other videos I did too
With the way 4e set up their power sources for psionics, I feel like that, coupled with the extra oomph the players have, makes it a great ruleset to play Dark Sun in. The books in 4e are fantastic, and the Ashes of Athas organized play events were all great.
4e game mechanics were the best of any edition. But the flavor text and class balance didn't appeal to gamers
@@pheralanpathfinder4897 Perhaps, but my friends and I are going back to it. We never had an issue with it before (it was our first foray into the hobby), and the last 10 years of playing 5e on and off have made us realize we want more technical combat and options. I don't believe 4e isn't focused on social or exploration - those things exist, and we can use them. Overall though, most D&D games are going to revolve around combat at some point.
@@artificeralfHonestly, for a combat oriented game, I'd go with 3.5 or 4th.
Nowadays I prefer rules light OSR style play where RP trumps rules and combat is very much a "get it over with so we can get back to slow burn exploration and roleplay."
But if I was running the sorts of games I did 20 years ago, for sure I'd be running a system more suited to that playstyle.
@@Syndicate_01 I've found that people play exploration and roleplaying with a mix of rules from all sorts of systems and whatever fits the group vs the rules as written. Our group has started to favor dynamic combats with options to engage, not just walk into a room with 3 goblins, etc. It's another reason why we want to jump back.
Dark Sun for 4e suffered from the same problem all D&D settings suffer since 4e: every one has to be allowed to play everything, no race or class is probidden in any setting. You want to play an orc paladin in Dark Sun, well, you are allowed to do it, even if it really does not fit the theme of the setting.
Do the Birthright setting next. That was my favorite setting.
This is actually the first time someone in the comments mentioned Birthright! I have doner zero research into it, what's it's vibe? I'll check it out!
I'm here only because I was introduced to the setting via the GoldBox Dark Sun Shattered Lands in circa 1994
I spit in the face of Tectuktitlay!
Outstanding video. I've been playing DS and reading the novels since they came out (Gen X nerd here) and it'll always be my favorite setting. One of the reasons I love it so much is because unlike virtually every other D&D setting, DS actually draws inspiration from non Western European sources (Subsaharan Africa, E/SE Asia, Middle East, Central America, Asia...), which is so rad. I completely understand that the content is potentially sensitive, but on the other hand, it's not as though the setting is *glorifying* things like slavery - quite the opposite, those are the forces in the world that you're fighting against! Besides, don't half the D&D monsters already keep slaves? (Grungs, Drow, Illithids, just to name a few.) Anyway, it'll probably never happen, but I'll be over here dreaming of official support for the setting again someday...
Thanks for the kind words! From your comment I have to ask, do you like conan too? Hyperian age is similar from drawing from a tone of different history / world settings
Apparently there is one true deity left in Dark Sun, a nature goddess who ruthlessly protects the last bastion of uncorrupted nature along with her halfling worshippers.
Really where they say This?
Lalali-Puy, and she’s not really a god. Just a Dragon King that decided to win people over by trying to restore nature. This has convinced the people of Gulg to worship her as a god.
@@Reptilianmind343 My mistake.
Halflings are responsible for Athas' ruin
I really liked the Dark Sun video games. They were not expensive because they were older, but the music, setting and story were so good. It's still in my top 10 games of all time!