The Gith are actually what’s left of the Githyanki who invaded Athas, realized what a horrible place it was, and retreated before doing the Githyanki equivalent of “shredding the door” in Monsters, Inc. A few were left behind for some reason and those eventually degenerated into the modern Gith.
As a teenager I was at a D&D convention in Dallas when the box set was released. Tim Brown and Troy Denning spoke about the setting., We were all in awe, at the end asked, “any questions”? The room was silent! It was so different setting we didn’t know how to take it. They also talked about other ideas being kicked around for a new setting. They discussed an idea called “Dungeon World” a hollow world that had no known surface it was 100% dungeon. But TSR went with DarkSun.
My condolences on your friend. Impressive with the lake. My biggest good guy achievement in athas was finding finding jobs for a few dozens former slaves. Love how athas is a horrible place to live, but, opposite of 40k, there is Hope with a capital H. If we all worked hard for it, it could be a great place to live again.
"Started gaming as DM again" Your best buddy would've wanted you to do that. Now they can fully rest as their best bud is DM'n again and watch your games....
Something people often neglect is how gorgeous the artwork is by Brom for dark sun, and how much it does to evoke the setting! The characters posing against hellish backdrops, often looking feral or fearless. I am in love with his art! To me, Dark Sun is inextricably tied to his vision for it.
Brom has been my favorite artist since childhood, after my father bought me one of his art books. Didn’t realize he did dark sun and MTG work! Everything is perfectly connected in my life now, thank you.🙏
I could not agree more. What's funny about it is that Brom eventually left TSR because they wouldn't let him paint/illustrate anything BUT Dark Sun. You can read about it in his art book. I'm just glad we got as much DS art from him as we did.
It is so full over eternally taboo subjects that it will only ever thrive on the fringes. I hope we never lose it, and it will always be a bit punk, a bit metal.
He must not have kept up at all with the scandals of WotC, or what's going on with the entertainment industry in general, to wish for WotC to make a new MODERN version of Dark Sun, sheesh. Lets pray that WotC never touch this setting and puts their stain on it. Also the Dark Sun planet is just one out of millions of so called "Death Worlds" in the Warhammer 40K universe.
I think one of the reasons 5e never did Dark Sun aside from the typical reasons of slavery and such, is that 5e has taken the survival aspect completely out of D&D. Between the 5e version of goodberry and create water, a party never has to worry about foraging, nor carrying enough food, nor loosing that food to raiders, nor getting lost if the ranger has desert as it's favored terrain.
5e and its lore is just sanitized. There's very little truly fantastical beyond spelling slinging and magical creatures. it was made to be easily palpable by the masses and doesn't allow itself any controversy. . .in a world where past lore tells you there ARE evil races and that GOOD vs EVIL is still very much a thing. . .not everything is morally gray.
This is hands down still my favorite setting for D&D. I get tired of the "this is problematic" argument. Last time I checked if someone doesn't like it, they can just choose not to play it.
And it's a fantasy world! Nobody is saying "this is the right way to court your mate" or "having slaves is right". If I remember correctly the first book series for Darksun was about a slave rebellion! No mistake: slavery is a terrible thing and nobody should ever be a slave. But in a fantasy world? Hell, one of the main antagonists in my world are the slavers!
The 'its problematic' most likely does not refer to political topics or anything. Shit even Faeurun has canon slavery, rape, genocide etc. If it was so problematic then they would have removed all of it but they haven't. Many of these 'problematic' elements exist in BG3 even. It refers to the fact that DND 5e is very different to DND DarkSun. The 'problematic' part is adapting DND 5e rules to Dark Sun. Doing so would completely change DnD. People think that Dark Sun 5e would just he regular 5e in a grimdark world, but so much of 5e would have to be changed that it would be almost a different system. There are far more survival mechanics built in, so many systems that just work differently in dark sun compared to normal 5e. I want more dark sun content, but yeah making a modern day dark sun would be problematic because gameplay wise it would change dnd drastically, and players would not expect it/want that level of change, and wotc doesn't wanna take the risk.
The did remake it back in 4e. So it's possible to see what WotC would do to Dark Dun, because they already did it. It wasn't as bad as it could have been, but it was heavily sanitized.
They would ruin it. Too scared that some snowflakes might get hurt feelings. Let the fans handle until WotC finally is cleansed of ideological nonsense. WotC would also probably use AI to paint the books^^.
@@lyvekis8824I don’t think WOTC should attempt Dark Sun either but it’s kinda weird to see someone go “tough guy” snowflake talk about board games for nerds.
I love the fan theory that says the whole world of Athas isn't a desert, we play in an isolated area that has no contact with the thriving outer world, like a colossal version of the Mournland.
That’s kind of true, there’s a rainforest area where the Halflings came from and the insect people come from somewhere else, so the ENTIRE planet isn’t just a giant desert. Just a lot of it.
@@thecosmic8248There is a large Thri-Kreen empire that exists beyond the Jagged Cliffs that is probably where most of the insects originally came from.
Dark Sun was a PvE game more than any other setting. Mere survival was the goal. You didn’t try to win against a sorcerer-king, you tried to avoid their attention. I can remember playing a Water Hunter tribe elf druid that thrived by using magic to create oases in the rocky badlands away from the cities. I started with rock-cut shelters and kivas filled with magically-created water. Protecting those sources of water became the focal point of the campaign rather quickly, because anything that you can use to survive, someone or something will try to take away.
As someone who lives in a real desert; all that bare skin and leather will kill you faster. The characters should really wear loose baggy clothing to cover as much skin from the sun as possible for their own survival. Since Iron is scarce in this setting, then perhaps stone slings, stone tipped arrows and wood boomerangs can serve as a more common ranged weapon as compared to metal tipped arrows.
The bare skin is mostly for the sex appeal in the art. But at least the effects of wearing heavy or even medium armor has been acknowledged. Much of D&D sacrifices some realism for fun and simplicity.
Think there are theories about how the sun being changed and general mutations, makes no clothing a good idea. But hey, its 80's heavy metal and I love it!
I think alot of that leather is actually insect 'chitin', as giant bugs are one of the few things thst can survive in the wild. Not sure if it's any better for sun exposure.
A very even handed look at Dark Sun. It's one of my favorites because it is so unusual and weird and brutal. I do wish WoTC would sell this IP to a company that would do Dark Sun well and not go over the top.
@@ChrisMoneymakerDHRG just a prediction, they will make like 4 more games with this being like the 5th not even half finished, then the company dies off but the workers will move onto other game studios or even the next "souls game"
Back in the 90s the dark Sun novels were my favorite. I think my favorite part of the setting is that halflings, one of the least respected races in any other setting are one of the most feared in this setting. No one wants to run into a halfling tribe.
Complete noob when it comes to modern game development. With modern game engines, assets and so on how difficult is it to make a rpg that looks and plays well?
@@TheLavachildYes, Dungeons and Dragons has hundreds of full length novels. Pirating them in .epub format is unfortunately the best way to get a decent collection of them.
Compared to Athas, Ravenloft is a paradise. Any Athasian would gleefully love to get sucked in by the mists. "OMG!! There's trees and grass and lakes and rain and it's cool!! Happy day, happy day!!" 😭
I sometimes joke with my friends that my next character will be a Preserver who managed to escape Athas and is now absolutely ecstatic he lives in a world where it rains.
Honestly the way around the problematic elements is pretty simple. Wrap it in plastic, slap a warning sticker on it that basically says “Hey this book is deals with some heavy topics that some people might not be comfortable with and is recommended for adults only. Discretion is advised.” Put it out there and let the consumer decide.
That's a smart suggestion, but the issue is that Hasbro won't risk their overall reputation over a niche role playing setting. There are a lot of bored wannabe social justice warriors out there. Personally I think this is the coolest setting D&D ever created and Warhammer 40k is arguably far more extreme. There is a large fan base for dark fantasy and horror and the fact remains that human history is filled horrible things too. Better to channel the dark stuff into role playing games than real life in my opinion. Ironically you don't see protests with Call of Duty video games and you can say they're even more fucked up. Just making an observations and for the record I'm 18 years Active Duty military.
@@poolplayerbrian It's not social justice types who would be against Dark Sun. It's the money people. Dark Sun isn't ad' friendly, it's not generic oatmeal fantasy with universal appeal. It's not going to get investors excited. It has opinions and heart and soul. It might turn some people off. That's not the kind of thing WotC are willing to touch. The line gotta go up.
There's something inherently silly about post society collapse settings that once you hear, you cannot unhear. It makes absolutely no sense to have entire armies built like Hulk Hogan when food is rare and famine is common, where did all the protein come from? How are you feeding all your slaves (things, DIE when you don't feed them)? Where the heck do these giant hulking monsters find enough food to sustain themselves when the desert is nearly devoid of all life? Many Real life deserts have a shocking amount of life.
A fair point, my interpretation is to have the bulk of any army be made up of half dying slave chaf, with a core of elites that take the bulk of the food and best equipment. Perhaps even consuming the weaker chaf soldiers on the regular
So there is an ecosystem explained. The world is not entirely Dunes. The city states have resources, agriculture and live stock, but they sorcerer kings have the monopoly of It.
I DM Darksun, which is not a post-society setting but rather a dystopian world characterized by fortress city-states ruled with an iron fist, alongside wasteland tribes surviving off the land. Athas teems with life, featuring abundant insectoid and reptilian species. There is plenty of meat available for groups strong enough to hunt it. It has been thousands of years since the world was green, so the ecosystem has evolved; various types of cacti and desert vegetation provide food and crafting materials. The cities are ruled by sorcerer-kings, with the majority of the population enslaved. Considerable effort and slave labor are dedicated to food production. Merchant houses transport goods between the city-states, resulting in a robust economy. This setting is brutal and harsh, actively confronting players with the evils of tyranny and oppression, leaving them with no choice but to fight against it. What WotC gets wrong is that the real-world evil of slavery provides the characters with a genuine reason to resist. The original metaplot involved the party participating in the overthrow of the sorcerer-kings and sowing the seeds of liberation across the land, ultimately seeking the magic to restore life to Athas. Current D&D has become so watered down and politically correct that the setting is viewed as problematic rather than recognizing its underlying social justice narrative. I would hate for WotC to remake Darksun; they would likely strip it of its greatness and sanitize it for their current fanbase.
I played D&D as a kid, then went like a decade without playing. In my early 20s I moved in with a couple friends, and they were all playing D&D, so I completely jumped on board. It was Dark Sun, and it was brutal. I loved it, we all loved it. Our DM was fantastic. He was the kind of DM who would put in hours upon hours of work, learning the lore, creating the adventure, etc... and he was super into the setting, so he did a great job of introducing the world to us, explaining the racial differences and stuff. Ah, good days.
It was wonderful to help guide your research with this. If you ever have any other D&D topics, you know how to find me, and I'm always happy to share what I know!
fun fact, all the sorcerer kings are dragons, only one went back to goodness and strived to become an avangion. you guys gotta actually read the setting material.
@@Brightblade_Plays yes, we discussed this, and I was mindful about exactly this sort of grumbling, because I would grumble too! But this isn’t meant to be a deep dive into every twist and turn; to fit in a 30-odd minute form factor, Otto had to omit certain things. On top of that, this is really more aimed at people who are unfamiliar with the setting, as a sort of pitch; I think any DM would want the whole Rajaat/Borys/Sorcerer King relationship to be one they can unspool themselves rather than one the players already know.
The elves are interesting. The bride kidnapping/"kidnapping" is an interesting historical fact, generally it was kind of the agreed upon way to create more genetic diversity (though they didn't know the term at the time) between tribes to avoid inbreeding too much and inject some new blood into the tribe. Same type of system existed with things like cattle raids too - just kind of some cultural thing every tribe did to each other as a matter of life. Ireland specifically has a long history of that. Obviously the idea of this system is terrible now in a modern context. It's just kind of an interesting historical parallel they added.
It's one of those things where yeah, realistically is AWFUL. Don't do. But that's, kind of what fantasy/fiction is for? Yes, be critical, acknowledge it would be horrible in REAL world. Doesn't mean a compelling and incredible story can't be crafted out of it.
So, I got into a campaign and the GM reveled it was going to be set in the Dark Sun universe. This video came on the day of the session 0. I'm so glad!
@@intheouts It's not cheating knowing the setting to make a background to your character. Imagine if I made a Fairy Cleric with a very whimiscal characteriscs, went with my sheet done just to be informed at the session 0 that I can't use a cleric nor a Fairy and my background doesn't match the base tone of the world. What if I didn't knew of the Psion class beforehand? I wouldn't even think that it was a nice try, which is! It's only cheating if you read the planned adventure (which isn't the case because the GM is writing the story, just using the setting and the video doesn't go so far in the lore), or the stat blocks.
@@nealaikin3868 Right? Dude's logic is that you can't learn a language before traveling to another country. Learning language and basic culture isn't the same as cheating the banking system.
32:21 This is not happening. Larian Studios mentioned that WotC fired the entire staff that liaised with Larian on _Baldur's Gate 3,_ and Larian announced that they will not pursue any more projects with WotC. The laid off department was also the only one at WotC that turned a profit according to Hasbro investor reports. Both Hasbro and WotC are currently in financial straits, and it's looking like WotC will go the way of TSR now.
@@TheEvolver311 Ok, but that doesn't really explain why they choose to sack the relevant team when they turn a profit, and they were involved in the massive success that BG3 was
I ran DS with 3.5 Ed using some great little articles from Dragon and Dungeon magazines. The players hadn’t played in the setting before, only used to Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance etc. Cannibalistic halflings with razor sharp chakrams hunting them for two sessions. Good times, lol. Chucked in some rage virus “zombies” as well. They still talk about it fondly decades later. 😂
"problematic" they say to a game culture based on islam that WoTc is so keen on to respect these days. oh boy, no wonder they hire kidly flidlers (edit, 33:50 in the quran)
They did 3 years ago in the release where there said they were doing spelljammer. Was in the archive since years ago. The info wasn’t when spelljammer came out was when they said they were remaking it for 5e so was a whole ago
As a child of the 80's flawed hero's characters and no win situations are what makes for good stories and a good RPG. Dark sun was a song that might not be for everyone but it was unique. My own campaign is influanced by ravenloft for 80% and Dark sun for 20% and this inspired me to delve a bit more into dark sun again. thanks for that
IIRC there is one way out of Athas. You’d have to find the ruins of Kalidnay, which was taken to Ravenloft when the sorcerer king murdered half the people in his city. This implies that the ruins are connected to the other plane where the city still exists. In theory, you could use the mist to reach the Kalidnay in Ravenloft, then escape the city and travel to a different land, defeat the big bad there, and then return to that land’s original plane.
WOTWC really ought to be licensing their unused campaign settings -- they're so incredibly fleshed-out and detailed -- to third-parties to do more with, if not for tabletop gaming then for video games at least.
They WERE doing that for awhile, some 20 years back (they put Dragonlance back into Weiss and Hickman's hands, and gave Ravenloft to White Wolf which... while far from perfect, was a damn sight better than the 5e version), but current management would never do that- What, and risk having people make better products than they can? Psh, get out of here.
Some years ago the German publisher Ulisses asked WotC if they could reprint the German version of Star Frontiers. Initially they said yes, but after a while WotC changed their opinion and said that Ulisses could not do this because they wanted to do something with it.
THANK YOU for making this amazing video about this setting as a DM and creator for tabletop games its amazingly sad that those rare gems of stories are not in the spotlight anymore. i write my own stories to honor those from times to times but its not enough. thank you once again you are an amazing creator.
Great summary description. I used to run a Dark Sun campaign. I own most of the novels and RPG books, and you did a great job of summarizing the setting in a concise and easy to understand way. One D&D 2024 needs to bring the setting back because it is so different and much more challenging than other settings!
I should note that I have zero familiarity with the 4e version of Dark Sun - honestly didn't even know it existed. IMO, nothing from 4e ever should have existed, so that's non-canon to me.
@@exitsexamined Yeah, that edition lost its way. I suppose it could have been possible for good Dark Sun module content to still exist from the 4e period, but having to play it in the 4e system would have made it hard to enjoy.
Opening Intro: If you could live in one fantasy setting, what would it be? Me: NotAthasNotAthasNotAthasNotAthasNotAthasNotAthasForTheLoveOfAllThatIsHolyNotAthas!
Dark sun is my favorite fantasy setting of all time. I love how it reimagines a classical fantasy world into pure post apocalyptic sword and sorcery. I'm glad that wotc doesn't want to touch it. It would only destroy what makes dark sun special. It touches on themes about slavery, fighting for freedom, environmentalism, racism and survival in a oppressive world without being obnoxious.
I think there is a market for safe and confortable products and for Mature 18+ brutal and unhinged products. Not everything need to be family friendly. Maybe mainline D&D (or whatever) need to be safe, but there is room for fringe madness.
The designers at wotc already answered why they won’t do anything with the setting again, it has way too many themes that are not in line with the company, and if they had to remake a book setting, they would have to change so much of the original setting that it would not be Dark Sun anymore, so they just don’t do anything with it. I think it’s for the best, if we learned something about current wotc designers it’s that they are really bad at making good material with complex themes like slavery, violence, etc… they don’t understand Dark Sun, and it’s best they don’t try anything with it
Amen! These snowflake can't handle orcs and harsh language. A world where slavery is not only common but normal, and even preferred at times, is just too real for their fragile sensibilities.
I had this box set gifted to me by my dad when I was 16. It changed and influenced the tone of my stoytelling to a point of having permeated everything I run and have since. I am now 42 years old, a full time storyteller and game master, and run deeply immersive, very fleshed ou,t RP heavy, brutally challenging games and campaigns with very mature themes and dark subject matter. Often, I build my own worlds or make exhaustive adaptations of existing game settings for all kinds of TTRPG's into versions of themselves but changed for the worse, and in some even most minor way- more resembling the ravaged, post-pocalyptic, grim-dark, harsh brutality of DS. Thanks, dad! for a lifelong 'nailed it' gift! Love this video, sir. You handled and covered everything well enough to be alluring, informative, and encouraging. Represent! Subscribing this and your gaming channel!
Hey thank you so much for the kind words and welcome to the channel. You sound like an incredible game master and hopefully one day I can join one of your games. It's people like you who make the TTRPG community what it is! That sounds like an amazing gift from dad!
It's back when they tried to capture the feel of OG IPs, by basically copying them but with their own twist. I'd appreciate Dark Sun more now, but back then we played Dragonlance, but instead of being inspired by Conan (and others), it's a high fantasy clone of Middle Earth. These worlds were incredibly well done, and an homage to the originals. This skill is completely lost today. Today it's copy, corrupt, and steal from original works of art and turn them into garbage no longer familiar to the source. Today we play Savage Rifts, where we can add any concept, at any time in a way we enjoy.
I played a half-giant wizard, named Dim. He pretended to be the “dumb brute” stereotype. His spellbook was embroidered on hand/arm wraps. I really enjoyed that character.
@@exitsexamined We were using a 3e adaptation of Dark Sun. Half-giants were large, had +8 str, -2 Dex, +4 con, -6 int, -2 wis, and -4 cha (or something close to that), fortunately we rolled for stats so I was able to get decent mental scores. “Only” had an 18 str, though.
I never got into D&D but the DOS Dark Sun game from 1993 was my introduction to it. It's so crazy to me going back to it now and seeing how much bigger the campaign is beyond what was in the game.
Apparently there is one true deity left in Dark Sun, a nature goddess who ruthlessly protects the last bastion of uncorrupted nature along with her halfling worshippers.
Lalali-Puy, and she’s not really a god. Just a Dragon King that decided to win people over by trying to restore nature. This has convinced the people of Gulg to worship her as a god.
@@fumarc4501she doesn’t even like Halflings. The OP doesn’t know what they are saying. The Red Hunt is when her people hunt halflings through the Crescent Forest.
With the way 4e set up their power sources for psionics, I feel like that, coupled with the extra oomph the players have, makes it a great ruleset to play Dark Sun in. The books in 4e are fantastic, and the Ashes of Athas organized play events were all great.
@@pheralanpathfinder4897 Perhaps, but my friends and I are going back to it. We never had an issue with it before (it was our first foray into the hobby), and the last 10 years of playing 5e on and off have made us realize we want more technical combat and options. I don't believe 4e isn't focused on social or exploration - those things exist, and we can use them. Overall though, most D&D games are going to revolve around combat at some point.
@@artificeralfHonestly, for a combat oriented game, I'd go with 3.5 or 4th. Nowadays I prefer rules light OSR style play where RP trumps rules and combat is very much a "get it over with so we can get back to slow burn exploration and roleplay." But if I was running the sorts of games I did 20 years ago, for sure I'd be running a system more suited to that playstyle.
@@Syndicate_01 I've found that people play exploration and roleplaying with a mix of rules from all sorts of systems and whatever fits the group vs the rules as written. Our group has started to favor dynamic combats with options to engage, not just walk into a room with 3 goblins, etc. It's another reason why we want to jump back.
Dark Sun for 4e suffered from the same problem all D&D settings suffer since 4e: every one has to be allowed to play everything, no race or class is probidden in any setting. You want to play an orc paladin in Dark Sun, well, you are allowed to do it, even if it really does not fit the theme of the setting.
I was unhappy when Forgotten Realms became so high fantasy. The early stuff, including the glimpses we saw in Dragon before it became the official setting were gritty. It was perfect for me. I incorporated several things from Pendragon into my ADD campaign like the personality traits. When Dark Sun came out that broke up my little group, some of them wanted that, I was the one who laid out effort and bucks and wanted my well developed FR setting. Oh well.
As long as Wizards keep with the 5E ruleset, and the currently releasing rules update is a strong sign that they will keep with this edition for a long time, Dark Sun, Birthright, and a few other settings will never come back. The big thing that Wizards is avoiding is campaign settings that need their own rules. That is why Psionics is being treated as reflavored magic and the House Marks in Eberron are feats. Both Dark Sun and Birthright require new rules to exist. It disappoints me because it means all the unique settings either have to contort to fit into the current rules, or they will not be picked up, but I can understand why that is the case.
Birthright would have more issues with the modern outlook of certain circles than Dark Sun would. At least in Dark Sun all of the "problematic" stuff is cast as evil and the stuff of villains. Birthright revels in the idea that certain families are "better" than others by literal "right of birth" - it's right there in the name. Certain "folx" would have conniptions if they thought about it too much.
Absolutely my favorite D&D Setting. The only 2E stuff I still have are the corebooks (plus Psionics handbook, of course) and most of the Dark Sun material (though I do regret getting rid of my Planescape stuff years and years ago).
Dark Sun is so immensely fascinating and is truly unique, even amongst other dark and gritty settings like Conan, Mad Max, and the various multitudes of one-off films from the 70s and 80s. Definitely one of my top three favourite d&d settings and it's not number 3, lol I even modeled one of the eras of my own OC fantasy setting after Dark Sun and Conan
I LOVE IT! Would you classify this under a Sword-and-sandal genre? The lithic technology and architecture has a very bronze age vibe to it, I think. Which I love it! I have such a love-hate relationship with Traditional fantasy. I love it. I read the hobbit in middle school, I played WoW back in the day, I even LARPed and have worked at Ren fairs. But its all just so played out. You can't excite me. I know all the joke, all the aesthetics, all the archetypes. I know all the worlds and any "new" world you show me is just going to be what I've already seen. It all looks the same and feels the same. Give me a Bronze age, Conan-style desert world!
There's nothing "Bronze age" or particularly "desert world" about Conan's setting conan literally wears full plate armor and Half of the kingdoms in the setting are based off the middle ages. How is that "bronze age" in any way?
$20 bucks! A whole boxed set back then. It was the one I got and ran from the group. I think it's noteworthy that in the early 90s, it fits the vision of environmental collapse. Captain Planet came out the same time, so the defilers precipitating the post-apocalypse setting it was. In hindsight, the dragon, a creature of hubris, and the opponent being a giant month, being Godzilla and Mothra is obvious. 3 random notes: For 2nd edition, Dark Sun characters attributes also ran to 20 (without racial variations). That helped to make everyone feel more than any other setting. A halfing or thri-kreen's favorite meal is an elf. Part of the fall of TSR was sales of the novels (of which I read many many many)--specifically, what happens when they don't sell. For mass market paperbacks. Booksellers could return hardcovers and trades for credit--and those excess books would be sold on for cheap as "remainders". For years, mass markets only needed the cover to be returned for the credit, but you can't sell that mass market stripped of the cover and had to get trashed. Lots of other obstacles and mistakes in TSR history, but those books not selling was a chunk of it.
We played Dark Sun for a little bit 'back in the day'. A time when so many RPGs came out there was no way to sustain them all. But we had a Thri Kreen and Cannibal Haflings. I was happy I finally made it through session and obtaining our objective. Only to die to a random encounter 2 days away from making it home. Shredded by a much higher level Bullet. I am actually working on a Drak Sun Mash Up. Its fun making stories or ideas in this setting.
Great video! Darksun was one of the first pc RPGs I played, till this day still such a captivating world that influenced some home brew campaigns. I really would like to revisit the games I'm sure there was lots that went over my head at that age. E extremely underrated
I fell in love with Dark Sun as soon as I saw it. One thought that really burned in my mind was, how did the world get to be this way?? As you mention in the video, while I enjoyed the Prism Pentad series of novels, I really *didn’t* like that they immediately spoiled the mystery of the world.
I know nothing about this setting. Just be hearing about it, I don't WotC to ever touch it. I don't want to think what they would do to it to make it palpable for the masses. Not every fantasy world has to be sterilzed for everyone to like everything in it. SOME 'bad' things are good in the context of a fictional setting.
Thanks for this great video! This world, with that Original Dark Sun branding and art, came out the year I started my first job, babysitting, specifically so I could afford to buy all those D&D books, magazines (Dragon! Dungeon!), and all the materials coming out in a flood then (Monstrous Compendium Binder Packs!) at the start of my D&D journey. Dark Sun has fascinated me ever since. Well done and thx:) I remember MUDs, too, though that was a neighboring Geekdom for me, like larping or MTG. I don't remember anyone calling them M.U.D's at the time; we just called them "muds" (like wet dirt) and I recall at the time they were understood to stand for Multi-User Dungeons. Again, I was an outsider. So it's great to hear all this from a younger nerd, taking me back, and it was a nice return to a horrible world - one of the worst places, from a character's perspective, of all the places there were in D&D (A Game About Warfare). Dark Sun was and is evil, and it's worth exploring, for all the grandeur and excitement, and as a cautionary tale that has some value in our present times. Again, thanks for the video essay! I'll be back for more.
@@Lexicophage lol I also mentioned in research that definition of MUD, but apparently the developers made the acronym “dimension” instead due to a lack of true dungeons on Athas, which got a big laugh from me
Genuinely enjoying your videos, so many of these topics have always made me wonder, especially your video on Eyewitness. You have also brought many cool new things to my attention. Thanks for the videos!
I fell in love with Dark Sun as soon as I saw it. After buying the box set, one question that burned in my mind was, how did the world get this way?? While I enjoyed the Prism Pentad novels, I’ll echo the sentiment you mention that it felt like they spoiled the mystery of the world, especially since they came out so soon after the box set.
I think I did the pronunciation similar to the audiobooks but I don't think a proper pronunciation guide was ever released for the setting! Would love to see one if there is one though
I remember seeing Dark Sun books in bookstore back in the day, but didn't know anything about it beyond the cover art until this video. As both a fan of brutal, Heavy Metal/Frank Frazetta style fantasy and a HUGE fan of intricate world building, this fascinates the hell out of me! I love scenarios where the world is broken and dying, and desperate "survivors" have to make painful choices between sticking to their morals and still being alive when the sun rises tomorrow, whether it's in movies, books, RPGs, or computer games. Dark Sun seems to scratch all of these itches. I'm glad I stumbled across this.
If you love the style definitely check out more of Brom art! If you're into that style fantasy do you know any others? Would love to check out more of them on the channel
@@exitsexamined Yeah, sadly (I mean, not really, I think Cyric's a more appropriate reference for the BG series, but yeah, I'd love a proper Dark Sun CRPG). "The Dark Sun" is one of the many titles given to the god Cyric, from Forgotten Realms. He was, for a time, god of death, and he is connected in the lore to Jergal (Withers), and the Dead Three (Myrkul, Bane, Bhaal). So that note is most definitely about him.
Back in the 90's I ran a campaign with my friends focused on doing the bidding of an upset Gypsy. She cursed them to complete tasks in various settings like Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, (also Birthright if I remember correctly) and of course Dark Sun. Dark Sun was the hardest one to do. The mechanics and classes were so different, I just had to make it work. Travel in and out of there was supposed to be impossible, but for the sake of story, I made it happen. At the end of one of the DS adventures for the Gypsy, they met an NPC they loved and wanted to take him with them.. When it was time to make the jump to another setting, they all got absorbed by the fog teleportation method and appeared somewhere else without said NPC. Needless to say, whenever possible, they tried to go back to the hellscape of DS to find him but always failed. Never found him again. Very long campaign. Lasted years and was a fun challenge for me as a DM.
I was introduced to Dark Sun in 4e and found it fascinating. I am disappointed 5e won’t get it because Wizards of the Coast are afraid of pissing off the “modern audience.”
I have a big soft spot for Athas, I'm currently running a Planescape game where a couple of my players are from there so I did a disgusting amount of research into the setting and it's timeline and such to make a decent reasoning for it to be back in the multiverse, even found a really cool old dragon magazine article about what Athasians would be like when out of Athas! I would LOVE to see it get some new attention, I think all the gritty dark stuff makes for a fun challenge to play a hardcore hero, but man does it seem like some fans are like disturbingly attached to the grosser aspects of the setting and that's not easy to work with
can i ask what edition you're running your Planescape game in? i've been planning a Planescape campaign for a pretty long time but can't decide what edition to use or whether i should even use DnD.
@@sewerentropy5217 I'm just using 5e honestly, it's mostly just for familiarity and simplicity of the rules. I HAVE done a lot of reading through old 2e books to get a proper understanding of the setting and what kinda environment it was created in, but any mechanic stuff I found from those I've done my best to convert to 5e cause again the 2e stuff is just whack to me like I can't wrap my head around THAC0 despite how basic it probably really is XD
@@sewerentropy5217 I'm just running it in 5e cause it's familiar and simple for me to understand ;^^ I HAVE done a lot of reading of old 2e material to understand the setting and the environment it was made in, but I've done my best to convert any old stuff I enjoy into 5e stuff cause again it's easier for me X3
@@zpiotroski for me, I feel like there’s great potential for heroism in DS. When the party makes a sacrifice to do good (free slaves, overthrow a Templar, give water to a dying man) it means so much more. I know WOTC is leery of the “problematic” aspects, but I feel with some minor tweaking you could really emphasize the more socially relevant themes (environmental collapse spurred on by a ruling class seeking profit and power, resistance to authoritarianism, binding a milieu of many into a cooperative democratic whole). So many forget some bits from the original 2e set along the lines of “templars, defiles, and slaveholders can never be good; neutral is as generous an alignment they can achieve”. Highlight that in their setting writing and reframe some “all x’s are y” descriptions as “the culture of x values y and here’s the reason”, and I don’t think they have anything to be afraid of “in the discourse”.
@@EndyHawk Man you get it exactly my dude, I've always been of the opinion that D&D kinda NEEDS these evils around so that it can be directly challenged and be like "yeah this is evil, how do you solve it?" instead of taking the question away all together, my friends and I joke about Athas being a place where good never really triumphs in the long term but honestly that just means the short term good you can do is all the more important!
Dark Sun and Spelljammer are my fave D&D settings, hence my art ;) Also wrote up a simplified psionics system to help make it easier for players, was published in Polyhedron long time ago
@@andersand6576 "Psionics Simplified" was title of the article, iirc Swapped much of the Psionics handbook stuff for Players Handbook spells, tweaked, to make psionics WAY easier to run sorry I'd need ot dig it out still have the magazine but, take bit finding it, was when Polyhedron was being run from England iirc got lots of freebies for writing articles for it ;) My RUclips channel has few of my very old Spelljammer and 1 Dark Sun animations :) DeviantArt channel, same name SilverbladeTE, has lots of my D&D art
There's actually a stable portal to and from Dark Sun in the World Serpent's Inn. And if you can reach the inner planes, you just need to find another portal from there. Daunting but not 100% impossible. And whenever someone says "isolated from the rest of the universe" it's truly shows the creator was "don't you dare come and mess around with MY sand box!"
The original campaign setting declared this place is separated from the rest of the multiverse. The lore was changed in later editions One of the great things about 2e was allowing different races and classes for different campaign settings that weren't compatible
Wizards of the Coast saying Dark Sun is "problematic" is horribly stupid.... of course it's problematic... as all brutal post-apoc setting SHOULD be. I knew about Dark Sun because of the awesome art of Brom. I read in Brom's artbook that It was the painting of Neeva (The Dominator) the Brom's personal project that the TSR saw and inmediately wanted for the game.
I remember seeing the boxed set for the first time in the store... psionics, high ability scores, awesome art! They made a great decision having Brom do all the art, and Troy Denning's flavor text brought it all together. I was actually in Judo classes with Troy in 1993, so that was awesome! I think one of my favorite concepts was the idea of a character tree... you already have your backups ready at day one of the campaign!
Gotta love the one fantasy setting where elves aren't these supreme all knowing beings but instead just wily little rascals that run real fast
7-foot tall little rascals :-D
They still have a pretty solid superiority complex though, so that's comforting!
It's the setting that says "Hey, what if the halflings weren't cute, good, and kind, but instead, hear me out, nasty cannibal murder hobbits?"
@@heavyhebrewso goblins?
Arcanum Gnomes: Eugenics for Fun and Profit!
The Gith are actually what’s left of the Githyanki who invaded Athas, realized what a horrible place it was, and retreated before doing the Githyanki equivalent of “shredding the door” in Monsters, Inc. A few were left behind for some reason and those eventually degenerated into the modern Gith.
Beat me to it.
Ok thanks for that. I always wondered how they were related to the Githyanki and Githzerai but stuck on Athas
I dated a Githyanki once.
Well that and the githzerai dropped a psychic nuke on them.
@@intotheunknown8774
We all did. We all did.
As a teenager I was at a D&D convention in Dallas when the box set was released. Tim Brown and Troy Denning spoke about the setting., We were all in awe, at the end asked, “any questions”? The room was silent! It was so different setting we didn’t know how to take it. They also talked about other ideas being kicked around for a new setting. They discussed an idea called “Dungeon World” a hollow world that had no known surface it was 100% dungeon. But TSR went with DarkSun.
Dungeon World sounds cool too, ngl. Learning about all these different dnd settings have been a lot of fun.
They did eventually do Hollow World but it was for BECMI. I think it came out around 1990?
@@blinkspot2667 sounds like fantasy BLAME-like world
Arx fatalis kind of stuff? Sounds cool
My late best friend LOVED Dark Sun!!! Our last gaming session before he died. I accomplished the unthinkable. I created a LAKE.
My condolences on your friend. Impressive with the lake. My biggest good guy achievement in athas was finding finding jobs for a few dozens former slaves.
Love how athas is a horrible place to live, but, opposite of 40k, there is Hope with a capital H. If we all worked hard for it, it could be a great place to live again.
i think that is a great last thing to do with your friend in the setting. May he rest with God.
@@Nachotaco101 I hope so. Started gaming as DM again for the first time since his death. Caught myself being emotional. Lol.
"Started gaming as DM again"
Your best buddy would've wanted you to do that. Now they can fully rest as their best bud is DM'n again and watch your games....
Something people often neglect is how gorgeous the artwork is by Brom for dark sun, and how much it does to evoke the setting!
The characters posing against hellish backdrops, often looking feral or fearless. I am in love with his art! To me, Dark Sun is inextricably tied to his vision for it.
I think maybe 70-80% of what makes dark sun dark sun was Brom and his artwork!
I never knew Brom did the artwork for Dark Sun. He is one of my favorite MTG artists when I collected and played.
Brom has been my favorite artist since childhood, after my father bought me one of his art books. Didn’t realize he did dark sun and MTG work! Everything is perfectly connected in my life now, thank you.🙏
I could not agree more. What's funny about it is that Brom eventually left TSR because they wouldn't let him paint/illustrate anything BUT Dark Sun. You can read about it in his art book. I'm just glad we got as much DS art from him as we did.
@@zenoooooo the cover with Rikus and the one with Sadira are my favourites.
I think Dark Sun should stay in the hands of the fans. It’s where the spirit thrives.
Honestly that's totally fair, probably a huge reason it's the why it's the way it is!
It is so full over eternally taboo subjects that it will only ever thrive on the fringes. I hope we never lose it, and it will always be a bit punk, a bit metal.
Totally agree
He must not have kept up at all with the scandals of WotC, or what's going on with the entertainment industry in general, to wish for WotC to make a new MODERN version of Dark Sun, sheesh. Lets pray that WotC never touch this setting and puts their stain on it.
Also the Dark Sun planet is just one out of millions of so called "Death Worlds" in the Warhammer 40K universe.
Good, that's where it should be. Any where else would be a death sentence.
I think one of the reasons 5e never did Dark Sun aside from the typical reasons of slavery and such, is that 5e has taken the survival aspect completely out of D&D. Between the 5e version of goodberry and create water, a party never has to worry about foraging, nor carrying enough food, nor loosing that food to raiders, nor getting lost if the ranger has desert as it's favored terrain.
5e and its lore is just sanitized. There's very little truly fantastical beyond spelling slinging and magical creatures. it was made to be easily palpable by the masses and doesn't allow itself any controversy. . .in a world where past lore tells you there ARE evil races and that GOOD vs EVIL is still very much a thing. . .not everything is morally gray.
That and Psionics saturating the setting.
I've had to completely nerf my players and implement 5e hardcore mode to do any sort of survival style game.
Not to mention almost every subclass is a defiler
Me and players have zero interest in making D&d a survival game, but people should have the option of it sounds fun.
This is hands down still my favorite setting for D&D. I get tired of the "this is problematic" argument. Last time I checked if someone doesn't like it, they can just choose not to play it.
It's exhausting keeping up with the moral outrage of clownworld people these days.
They are the worst.
And it's a fantasy world! Nobody is saying "this is the right way to court your mate" or "having slaves is right". If I remember correctly the first book series for Darksun was about a slave rebellion!
No mistake: slavery is a terrible thing and nobody should ever be a slave. But in a fantasy world? Hell, one of the main antagonists in my world are the slavers!
The 'its problematic' most likely does not refer to political topics or anything. Shit even Faeurun has canon slavery, rape, genocide etc. If it was so problematic then they would have removed all of it but they haven't. Many of these 'problematic' elements exist in BG3 even.
It refers to the fact that DND 5e is very different to DND DarkSun. The 'problematic' part is adapting DND 5e rules to Dark Sun. Doing so would completely change DnD. People think that Dark Sun 5e would just he regular 5e in a grimdark world, but so much of 5e would have to be changed that it would be almost a different system. There are far more survival mechanics built in, so many systems that just work differently in dark sun compared to normal 5e.
I want more dark sun content, but yeah making a modern day dark sun would be problematic because gameplay wise it would change dnd drastically, and players would not expect it/want that level of change, and wotc doesn't wanna take the risk.
Dark Sun is so pulpy. It's fantastic.
I thought that said pubey
@@aubydauby Way too hot for hair.
I hope wotc never touch's dark sun, it's a brilliant setting and they don't have the writing skills or the directional fortitude to do it justice.
The did remake it back in 4e. So it's possible to see what WotC would do to Dark Dun, because they already did it. It wasn't as bad as it could have been, but it was heavily sanitized.
@@Jimalcoatlyea but they haven't done anything hardly worth anything in quite some time.
They would ruin it. Too scared that some snowflakes might get hurt feelings. Let the fans handle until WotC finally is cleansed of ideological nonsense. WotC would also probably use AI to paint the books^^.
@@lyvekis8824I don’t think WOTC should attempt Dark Sun either but it’s kinda weird to see someone go “tough guy” snowflake talk about board games for nerds.
@@Jimalcoatl That is exactly why they can't and every IP in their hands dies.
I love the fan theory that says the whole world of Athas isn't a desert, we play in an isolated area that has no contact with the thriving outer world, like a colossal version of the Mournland.
That’s kind of true, there’s a rainforest area where the Halflings came from and the insect people come from somewhere else, so the ENTIRE planet isn’t just a giant desert. Just a lot of it.
There was a fan theory floating around before they fleshed the history of Athas out that Athas was actually the distant future of Faerun.
@@thecosmic8248There is a large Thri-Kreen empire that exists beyond the Jagged Cliffs that is probably where most of the insects originally came from.
@@thecosmic8248 you might be reffering to the "green age"
Ah Eberron my beloved
This oozes 80s gnarliness. It has an edge that reminds me of like a Conan The Barbarian from Hell. Super metal, super interesting.
If you like Conan, stay tuned to the channel in the next few weeks!
If your starting a dark sun themed power metal band, ill be fan number one.
Dark Sun was a PvE game more than any other setting. Mere survival was the goal. You didn’t try to win against a sorcerer-king, you tried to avoid their attention.
I can remember playing a Water Hunter tribe elf druid that thrived by using magic to create oases in the rocky badlands away from the cities. I started with rock-cut shelters and kivas filled with magically-created water. Protecting those sources of water became the focal point of the campaign rather quickly, because anything that you can use to survive, someone or something will try to take away.
As someone who lives in a real desert; all that bare skin and leather will kill you faster. The characters should really wear loose baggy clothing to cover as much skin from the sun as possible for their own survival.
Since Iron is scarce in this setting, then perhaps stone slings, stone tipped arrows and wood boomerangs can serve as a more common ranged weapon as compared to metal tipped arrows.
The bare skin is mostly for the sex appeal in the art. But at least the effects of wearing heavy or even medium armor has been acknowledged.
Much of D&D sacrifices some realism for fun and simplicity.
100%. If I'm not mistaken sunburn is actually one of the mechanics in the setting. Survival is as much of an enemy as any monster.
Think there are theories about how the sun being changed and general mutations, makes no clothing a good idea. But hey, its 80's heavy metal and I love it!
I think alot of that leather is actually insect 'chitin', as giant bugs are one of the few things thst can survive in the wild. Not sure if it's any better for sun exposure.
@@josephperez2004 hmm, that material may have different properties perhaps.
A very even handed look at Dark Sun. It's one of my favorites because it is so unusual and weird and brutal. I do wish WoTC would sell this IP to a company that would do Dark Sun well and not go over the top.
Yeah Tim tried to buy it, but they just want to sit on it.
WotC is no longer capable of stewarding D&D as a whole.
@@HenriFaust Never have been.
@@ChrisMoneymakerDHRG just a prediction, they will make like 4 more games with this being like the 5th not even half finished, then the company dies off but the workers will move onto other game studios or even the next "souls game"
Back in the 90s the dark Sun novels were my favorite. I think my favorite part of the setting is that halflings, one of the least respected races in any other setting are one of the most feared in this setting. No one wants to run into a halfling tribe.
I always loved the idea of Athas halfings somehow finding a portal into FR and just literally terrorizing everything
@@exitsexamined As far as I know there is a neighborhood in Sigil's Hive called New Tyr.
As a dm I l8ve the little fuzzy murders ❤❤❤
Dark sun deserves baldurs gate or pathdinder style rpg.
Funny fact, BG1 actually came out of a Dark Sun PnP campaign.
"Congratulations on making your character, enjoy the land of Dark Sun. "
5 minutes in game: "You are now a slave."
10 minutes in: "You Died."
As with many good things of old they are not possible in this progressive environment of today.
@@camerongunn7906 aka Kenshi lol
Complete noob when it comes to modern game development. With modern game engines, assets and so on how difficult is it to make a rpg that looks and plays well?
Dark Sun is one of my favorite DnD worlds. Read the books as a kid and it has so much potential to be re made into a video game or series.
There were books? Not rule books, but story novels?
@@TheLavachildYes, Dungeons and Dragons has hundreds of full length novels. Pirating them in .epub format is unfortunately the best way to get a decent collection of them.
it was both a video game and a series
There was a video game of dark sun
@@TheLavachildthere's a bunch of novels, they're a great read, full of unusual stuff. Really unique. I found them in epub format online.
Compared to Athas, Ravenloft is a paradise. Any Athasian would gleefully love to get sucked in by the mists.
"OMG!! There's trees and grass and lakes and rain and it's cool!! Happy day, happy day!!"
😭
Part of Dark Sun does exist on the Plane of Dread: the lost city-state of Kalidnay
Depends upon the domain, but Athas is truly horror.
"You're saying we can cast magic here without destroying the environment!?"
"WATER?! Moderate climate? Food? Trees? Can I just stay here?"
Ravenloft thrall: We live in fear as subjects of a dark lord!
Athasian Wizard: Who cares!? There's actual magic in the air!!!!!
I sometimes joke with my friends that my next character will be a Preserver who managed to escape Athas and is now absolutely ecstatic he lives in a world where it rains.
I think you just created my next NPC.
@@robertporter6683 Glad I could help!
Honestly the way around the problematic elements is pretty simple. Wrap it in plastic, slap a warning sticker on it that basically says “Hey this book is deals with some heavy topics that some people might not be comfortable with and is recommended for adults only. Discretion is advised.” Put it out there and let the consumer decide.
That's a smart suggestion, but the issue is that Hasbro won't risk their overall reputation over a niche role playing setting. There are a lot of bored wannabe social justice warriors out there. Personally I think this is the coolest setting D&D ever created and Warhammer 40k is arguably far more extreme. There is a large fan base for dark fantasy and horror and the fact remains that human history is filled horrible things too. Better to channel the dark stuff into role playing games than real life in my opinion. Ironically you don't see protests with Call of Duty video games and you can say they're even more fucked up. Just making an observations and for the record I'm 18 years Active Duty military.
@@poolplayerbrian It's not social justice types who would be against Dark Sun. It's the money people. Dark Sun isn't ad' friendly, it's not generic oatmeal fantasy with universal appeal. It's not going to get investors excited. It has opinions and heart and soul. It might turn some people off. That's not the kind of thing WotC are willing to touch. The line gotta go up.
There's something inherently silly about post society collapse settings that once you hear, you cannot unhear. It makes absolutely no sense to have entire armies built like Hulk Hogan when food is rare and famine is common, where did all the protein come from? How are you feeding all your slaves (things, DIE when you don't feed them)? Where the heck do these giant hulking monsters find enough food to sustain themselves when the desert is nearly devoid of all life? Many Real life deserts have a shocking amount of life.
A fair point, my interpretation is to have the bulk of any army be made up of half dying slave chaf, with a core of elites that take the bulk of the food and best equipment. Perhaps even consuming the weaker chaf soldiers on the regular
So there is an ecosystem explained. The world is not entirely Dunes. The city states have resources, agriculture and live stock, but they sorcerer kings have the monopoly of It.
My GM justified it with one word: canibalism.
I DM Darksun, which is not a post-society setting but rather a dystopian world characterized by fortress city-states ruled with an iron fist, alongside wasteland tribes surviving off the land. Athas teems with life, featuring abundant insectoid and reptilian species. There is plenty of meat available for groups strong enough to hunt it. It has been thousands of years since the world was green, so the ecosystem has evolved; various types of cacti and desert vegetation provide food and crafting materials.
The cities are ruled by sorcerer-kings, with the majority of the population enslaved. Considerable effort and slave labor are dedicated to food production. Merchant houses transport goods between the city-states, resulting in a robust economy.
This setting is brutal and harsh, actively confronting players with the evils of tyranny and oppression, leaving them with no choice but to fight against it. What WotC gets wrong is that the real-world evil of slavery provides the characters with a genuine reason to resist. The original metaplot involved the party participating in the overthrow of the sorcerer-kings and sowing the seeds of liberation across the land, ultimately seeking the magic to restore life to Athas.
Current D&D has become so watered down and politically correct that the setting is viewed as problematic rather than recognizing its underlying social justice narrative. I would hate for WotC to remake Darksun; they would likely strip it of its greatness and sanitize it for their current fanbase.
WotC did remake Darksun in 4e, and yes it was watered down and sanitized.
I played D&D as a kid, then went like a decade without playing. In my early 20s I moved in with a couple friends, and they were all playing D&D, so I completely jumped on board.
It was Dark Sun, and it was brutal. I loved it, we all loved it. Our DM was fantastic. He was the kind of DM who would put in hours upon hours of work, learning the lore, creating the adventure, etc... and he was super into the setting, so he did a great job of introducing the world to us, explaining the racial differences and stuff. Ah, good days.
It was wonderful to help guide your research with this. If you ever have any other D&D topics, you know how to find me, and I'm always happy to share what I know!
fun fact, all the sorcerer kings are dragons, only one went back to goodness and strived to become an avangion. you guys gotta actually read the setting material.
@@Brightblade_Plays yes, we discussed this, and I was mindful about exactly this sort of grumbling, because I would grumble too! But this isn’t meant to be a deep dive into every twist and turn; to fit in a 30-odd minute form factor, Otto had to omit certain things. On top of that, this is really more aimed at people who are unfamiliar with the setting, as a sort of pitch; I think any DM would want the whole Rajaat/Borys/Sorcerer King relationship to be one they can unspool themselves rather than one the players already know.
Seriously thanks again! Will 100% take you up on that!
The elves are interesting. The bride kidnapping/"kidnapping" is an interesting historical fact, generally it was kind of the agreed upon way to create more genetic diversity (though they didn't know the term at the time) between tribes to avoid inbreeding too much and inject some new blood into the tribe. Same type of system existed with things like cattle raids too - just kind of some cultural thing every tribe did to each other as a matter of life. Ireland specifically has a long history of that.
Obviously the idea of this system is terrible now in a modern context. It's just kind of an interesting historical parallel they added.
It's one of those things where yeah, realistically is AWFUL. Don't do.
But that's, kind of what fantasy/fiction is for? Yes, be critical, acknowledge it would be horrible in REAL world. Doesn't mean a compelling and incredible story can't be crafted out of it.
Interestingly, that was among the first prohibitions Ghengis Khan instituted after unifying Mongolia
So, I got into a campaign and the GM reveled it was going to be set in the Dark Sun universe. This video came on the day of the session 0. I'm so glad!
@@intheouts It's not cheating knowing the setting to make a background to your character. Imagine if I made a Fairy Cleric with a very whimiscal characteriscs, went with my sheet done just to be informed at the session 0 that I can't use a cleric nor a Fairy and my background doesn't match the base tone of the world. What if I didn't knew of the Psion class beforehand? I wouldn't even think that it was a nice try, which is! It's only cheating if you read the planned adventure (which isn't the case because the GM is writing the story, just using the setting and the video doesn't go so far in the lore), or the stat blocks.
It's only cheating if you metagame.
@@nealaikin3868 Right? Dude's logic is that you can't learn a language before traveling to another country. Learning language and basic culture isn't the same as cheating the banking system.
@@intheouts The video doesn't get in the campaign territory. That's the point, the argument is broken.
@@intheouts The video doesn't get in the campaign territory. That's the point, the argument is broken.
32:21 This is not happening. Larian Studios mentioned that WotC fired the entire staff that liaised with Larian on _Baldur's Gate 3,_ and Larian announced that they will not pursue any more projects with WotC. The laid off department was also the only one at WotC that turned a profit according to Hasbro investor reports. Both Hasbro and WotC are currently in financial straits, and it's looking like WotC will go the way of TSR now.
Great. More divinity crap.
Why did they do that? I do not understand the financial analysis
Magic the Gathering is very profitable.
D&D had never been profitable outside of licensing the IP for games or the 80s cartoon etc..
@@TheEvolver311 Ok, but that doesn't really explain why they choose to sack the relevant team when they turn a profit, and they were involved in the massive success that BG3 was
@patrickreynolds5463 Hasbros new CEO not WotC
And they didn't fire the team etc... Larian games was under license to make BG3 and they did.
Dark Sun is my favourite campaign alongside Hollow World. Kinda holdin out hope it gets the same BG3 treatment in the forseeable future
That would be amazing, but I guess Larian seems to be off DnD so just hopefully if other devs step up to it they do it right!
Dude, same. I exist of FAR different ends of the AD&D setting. I LOVE Dark Sun and I love Mystara.
Someone mentioned desert hobbits to me and didn't understand why i was traumatized for a moment.
Honestly the halfings here are a bit traumatizing
I ran DS with 3.5 Ed using some great little articles from Dragon and Dungeon magazines. The players hadn’t played in the setting before, only used to Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance etc. Cannibalistic halflings with razor sharp chakrams hunting them for two sessions. Good times, lol. Chucked in some rage virus “zombies” as well. They still talk about it fondly decades later. 😂
Standard Halflings invite you round for dinner: Nice!
Athasian Halflings invite you round for dinner: Hell no!
@@triedtherest BG2 halflings from the sphere
Cannibal jungle hobbits
WotC Will call a fantasy setting "too problematic" and then go and hire actual predators as judges in kids' matches in Magic...
...Then protect those predators and malign anyone who calls them out.
Typical Hasbro and WotC
"problematic" they say to a game culture based on islam that WoTc is so keen on to respect these days. oh boy, no wonder they hire kidly flidlers (edit, 33:50 in the quran)
They did 3 years ago in the release where there said they were doing spelljammer. Was in the archive since years ago. The info wasn’t when spelljammer came out was when they said they were remaking it for 5e so was a whole ago
Such as...?
As a child of the 80's flawed hero's characters and no win situations are what makes for good stories and a good RPG. Dark sun was a song that might not be for everyone but it was unique.
My own campaign is influanced by ravenloft for 80% and Dark sun for 20% and this inspired me to delve a bit more into dark sun again. thanks for that
IIRC there is one way out of Athas. You’d have to find the ruins of Kalidnay, which was taken to Ravenloft when the sorcerer king murdered half the people in his city. This implies that the ruins are connected to the other plane where the city still exists. In theory, you could use the mist to reach the Kalidnay in Ravenloft, then escape the city and travel to a different land, defeat the big bad there, and then return to that land’s original plane.
WOTWC really ought to be licensing their unused campaign settings -- they're so incredibly fleshed-out and detailed -- to third-parties to do more with, if not for tabletop gaming then for video games at least.
That's a super interesting idea if they licensed out settings, especially should do it for video games!
That would require WoTC and Hasbro to be capable of having good ideas.
Which, given their financial situation…. I doubt it’s gonna happen.
They WERE doing that for awhile, some 20 years back (they put Dragonlance back into Weiss and Hickman's hands, and gave Ravenloft to White Wolf which... while far from perfect, was a damn sight better than the 5e version), but current management would never do that- What, and risk having people make better products than they can? Psh, get out of here.
Some years ago the German publisher Ulisses asked WotC if they could reprint the German version of Star Frontiers. Initially they said yes, but after a while WotC changed their opinion and said that Ulisses could not do this because they wanted to do something with it.
THANK YOU for making this amazing video about this setting as a DM and creator for tabletop games its amazingly sad that those rare gems of stories are not in the spotlight anymore.
i write my own stories to honor those from times to times but its not enough.
thank you once again you are an amazing creator.
Great summary description. I used to run a Dark Sun campaign. I own most of the novels and RPG books, and you did a great job of summarizing the setting in a concise and easy to understand way. One D&D 2024 needs to bring the setting back because it is so different and much more challenging than other settings!
I should note that I have zero familiarity with the 4e version of Dark Sun - honestly didn't even know it existed. IMO, nothing from 4e ever should have existed, so that's non-canon to me.
Oh is 4e not good? I've never actually played it myself only researched!
@@exitsexamined Yeah, that edition lost its way. I suppose it could have been possible for good Dark Sun module content to still exist from the 4e period, but having to play it in the 4e system would have made it hard to enjoy.
Opening Intro: If you could live in one fantasy setting, what would it be?
Me: NotAthasNotAthasNotAthasNotAthasNotAthasNotAthasForTheLoveOfAllThatIsHolyNotAthas!
haha, I guess if you're a Thri-kreen
And not Warhammer settings.
Dark sun is my favorite fantasy setting of all time. I love how it reimagines a classical fantasy world into pure post apocalyptic sword and sorcery. I'm glad that wotc doesn't want to touch it.
It would only destroy what makes dark sun special.
It touches on themes about slavery, fighting for freedom, environmentalism, racism and survival in a oppressive world without being obnoxious.
They already did in planescapes and they didn't ruin it but that doesn't mesh with the edge lord group think
I think there is a market for safe and confortable products and for Mature 18+ brutal and unhinged products. Not everything need to be family friendly. Maybe mainline D&D (or whatever) need to be safe, but there is room for fringe madness.
Totally agree, hopefully if wotc doesn't fill the void something else will step up to the plate
You mean gay friendly
@@queenmedesano, piss off
The designers at wotc already answered why they won’t do anything with the setting again, it has way too many themes that are not in line with the company, and if they had to remake a book setting, they would have to change so much of the original setting that it would not be Dark Sun anymore, so they just don’t do anything with it. I think it’s for the best, if we learned something about current wotc designers it’s that they are really bad at making good material with complex themes like slavery, violence, etc… they don’t understand Dark Sun, and it’s best they don’t try anything with it
No gay or black tomboyish women ?
@queenmedesa look at you all triggered
@@queenmedesaGrace Jones character in Conan would be right at home in Athas. So yeah.
The culture at WOTC would have to radically change before they could be trusted with the setting
I agree 100% I wish they would license it out to a third party letting them do the dark and cringy material.
Amen! These snowflake can't handle orcs and harsh language. A world where slavery is not only common but normal, and even preferred at times, is just too real for their fragile sensibilities.
With the way the video game industry is going, one can only hope that this will only be a matter of time.
They can't be trusted with dungeons and dragons at ALL
WotC and DnDBeyond are based in Seattle. They’ve got like NO chance to make the needed changes to business culture.
An all time best and rich setting. WOTC would turn it into a bland dumpster fire now if they tried to remake it.
They recently redid Planescape and people seemed to enjoy that at least
@@exitsexaminedstop pointing out that these hyperbolic takes are nonsense
As a long time fan of Dark Sun, I always love to see people discover it. It's insane. I love it so much.
I like Dark Sun. It has a bit of 'sword & planet' genre in it (like John Carter of Mars) which I like.
"problematic" = good, worthwhile, worth a look
Bring Back the Cannibal Hobbits of Dark Sun! 😁
That certainly puts second breakfast in a new light.
The DOS games (the Spartacus copycat & Wake of the Ravager) should get a remastered version (remake)! 🤗
I would say Berserk is probably a rival for a fantasy setting.
I actually haven't checked out ravenloft yet but I will 100% make a video on it in the future, what's it deal?
@exitsexamined I didn't mention Ravenloft, but Ravenloft is a pretty dark setting. Not to the extent of Darksun, though.
I said Berserk, where the whole world is screwed, and everyones angel/savior is actually the demon that brought the apocalypse.
It's a pretty great setting to be a thri-kreen though!
I had this box set gifted to me by my dad when I was 16. It changed and influenced the tone of my stoytelling to a point of having permeated everything I run and have since. I am now 42 years old, a full time storyteller and game master, and run deeply immersive, very fleshed ou,t RP heavy, brutally challenging games and campaigns with very mature themes and dark subject matter. Often, I build my own worlds or make exhaustive adaptations of existing game settings for all kinds of TTRPG's into versions of themselves but changed for the worse, and in some even most minor way- more resembling the ravaged, post-pocalyptic, grim-dark, harsh brutality of DS. Thanks, dad! for a lifelong 'nailed it' gift!
Love this video, sir. You handled and covered everything well enough to be alluring, informative, and encouraging. Represent! Subscribing this and your gaming channel!
Hey thank you so much for the kind words and welcome to the channel.
You sound like an incredible game master and hopefully one day I can join one of your games. It's people like you who make the TTRPG community what it is! That sounds like an amazing gift from dad!
Dark Sun is the best setting TSR ever created. I have literally every D&D product ever printed for the setting.
It's back when they tried to capture the feel of OG IPs, by basically copying them but with their own twist. I'd appreciate Dark Sun more now, but back then we played Dragonlance, but instead of being inspired by Conan (and others), it's a high fantasy clone of Middle Earth. These worlds were incredibly well done, and an homage to the originals. This skill is completely lost today. Today it's copy, corrupt, and steal from original works of art and turn them into garbage no longer familiar to the source. Today we play Savage Rifts, where we can add any concept, at any time in a way we enjoy.
Brom's Artwork is Dark Sun. It's amazing
I played a half-giant wizard, named Dim. He pretended to be the “dumb brute” stereotype. His spellbook was embroidered on hand/arm wraps. I really enjoyed that character.
Bring him back! We need Dim
@@exitsexamined We were using a 3e adaptation of Dark Sun. Half-giants were large, had +8 str, -2 Dex, +4 con, -6 int, -2 wis, and -4 cha (or something close to that), fortunately we rolled for stats so I was able to get decent mental scores. “Only” had an 18 str, though.
Dark Sun reminds me of this game Kenshi lol
I just bought kenshi while working on the video, whoa maybe it was a subconscious connection haha
@@exitsexamined Yeah I think Carl Jung called it Synchronization or smth like that lol
A game where being sold into slavery is one of the better outcomes
@@comyuse9103 As opposed to getting eaten by fogmen and cannibals or getting caught by skin bandits.
Kenshi is basically low fantasy dark sun.
Can't wait for kenshi 2, man
"Worse fantasy setting: Dark Sun"
*laughs in Warhammer 40k*
I never got into D&D but the DOS Dark Sun game from 1993 was my introduction to it. It's so crazy to me going back to it now and seeing how much bigger the campaign is beyond what was in the game.
6:36 .."..and peals of thunder roll unexplained across the vast tablelands."
Quite a cool ttrpg meta-comment there.
Out of all the D&D settings, Dark Sun is certainly the most unique.
Unique like Conan, Dune and Mad Max?
Apparently there is one true deity left in Dark Sun, a nature goddess who ruthlessly protects the last bastion of uncorrupted nature along with her halfling worshippers.
Really where they say This?
Lalali-Puy, and she’s not really a god. Just a Dragon King that decided to win people over by trying to restore nature. This has convinced the people of Gulg to worship her as a god.
@@fumarc4501she doesn’t even like Halflings. The OP doesn’t know what they are saying. The Red Hunt is when her people hunt halflings through the Crescent Forest.
@@Reptilianmind343 My mistake.
Halflings are responsible for Athas' ruin
With the way 4e set up their power sources for psionics, I feel like that, coupled with the extra oomph the players have, makes it a great ruleset to play Dark Sun in. The books in 4e are fantastic, and the Ashes of Athas organized play events were all great.
4e game mechanics were the best of any edition. But the flavor text and class balance didn't appeal to gamers
@@pheralanpathfinder4897 Perhaps, but my friends and I are going back to it. We never had an issue with it before (it was our first foray into the hobby), and the last 10 years of playing 5e on and off have made us realize we want more technical combat and options. I don't believe 4e isn't focused on social or exploration - those things exist, and we can use them. Overall though, most D&D games are going to revolve around combat at some point.
@@artificeralfHonestly, for a combat oriented game, I'd go with 3.5 or 4th.
Nowadays I prefer rules light OSR style play where RP trumps rules and combat is very much a "get it over with so we can get back to slow burn exploration and roleplay."
But if I was running the sorts of games I did 20 years ago, for sure I'd be running a system more suited to that playstyle.
@@Syndicate_01 I've found that people play exploration and roleplaying with a mix of rules from all sorts of systems and whatever fits the group vs the rules as written. Our group has started to favor dynamic combats with options to engage, not just walk into a room with 3 goblins, etc. It's another reason why we want to jump back.
Dark Sun for 4e suffered from the same problem all D&D settings suffer since 4e: every one has to be allowed to play everything, no race or class is probidden in any setting. You want to play an orc paladin in Dark Sun, well, you are allowed to do it, even if it really does not fit the theme of the setting.
I was unhappy when Forgotten Realms became so high fantasy. The early stuff, including the glimpses we saw in Dragon before it became the official setting were gritty. It was perfect for me. I incorporated several things from Pendragon into my ADD campaign like the personality traits. When Dark Sun came out that broke up my little group, some of them wanted that, I was the one who laid out effort and bucks and wanted my well developed FR setting. Oh well.
The thing about Athas is that it's an excellent postgame setting.
Do you want to become an evil overlord, by genociding an entire species?
warhammer fantasy old world is probably realistically the worst place to be in a fantasy setting. in my opinion. though dark sun is right there 2
Well I think Warhammer it depends, if you're a human yep that's pretty bad. Orc or Skaven though are living it up!
I dunno ,Rifts earth really sucks
The vast majority of male Skaven are slaves who are worked to death and then eaten. And let's not even get into how female Skaven are treated.
... and the tribe is already injecting it with gay and woke.
I really enjoyed this video. This setting is so evocative it’s a shame modern players don’t get to enjoy it
Thanks for checking it out! Modern players can enjoy it and run it just not with the newer versions of DnD
As long as Wizards keep with the 5E ruleset, and the currently releasing rules update is a strong sign that they will keep with this edition for a long time, Dark Sun, Birthright, and a few other settings will never come back. The big thing that Wizards is avoiding is campaign settings that need their own rules. That is why Psionics is being treated as reflavored magic and the House Marks in Eberron are feats. Both Dark Sun and Birthright require new rules to exist. It disappoints me because it means all the unique settings either have to contort to fit into the current rules, or they will not be picked up, but I can understand why that is the case.
Birthright would have more issues with the modern outlook of certain circles than Dark Sun would. At least in Dark Sun all of the "problematic" stuff is cast as evil and the stuff of villains. Birthright revels in the idea that certain families are "better" than others by literal "right of birth" - it's right there in the name. Certain "folx" would have conniptions if they thought about it too much.
Absolutely my favorite D&D Setting. The only 2E stuff I still have are the corebooks (plus Psionics handbook, of course) and most of the Dark Sun material (though I do regret getting rid of my Planescape stuff years and years ago).
This, ravenloft, and spelljammer were some of my favorites back in the day.
I actually haven't checked out ravenloft yet but I will 100% make a video on it in the future, what's it deal?
And all of them were dumbed down by WotC for 5e. Well, those they dared to touch.
Dark Sun is so immensely fascinating and is truly unique, even amongst other dark and gritty settings like Conan, Mad Max, and the various multitudes of one-off films from the 70s and 80s. Definitely one of my top three favourite d&d settings and it's not number 3, lol
I even modeled one of the eras of my own OC fantasy setting after Dark Sun and Conan
I LOVE IT! Would you classify this under a Sword-and-sandal genre? The lithic technology and architecture has a very bronze age vibe to it, I think. Which I love it! I have such a love-hate relationship with Traditional fantasy. I love it. I read the hobbit in middle school, I played WoW back in the day, I even LARPed and have worked at Ren fairs. But its all just so played out. You can't excite me. I know all the joke, all the aesthetics, all the archetypes. I know all the worlds and any "new" world you show me is just going to be what I've already seen. It all looks the same and feels the same. Give me a Bronze age, Conan-style desert world!
If you like conan stay tuned to the channel in the next few weeks haha
There's nothing "Bronze age" or particularly "desert world" about Conan's setting
conan literally wears full plate armor and Half of the kingdoms in the setting are based off the middle ages. How is that "bronze age" in any way?
As the video rolled in automatically in the background and I wasn't watching, just heard the intro, I thought - oh, more Warhammer content.
One reason why I've moved away from D&D is the fact that they only push the Forgettable Realms nowadays.
$20 bucks! A whole boxed set back then. It was the one I got and ran from the group. I think it's noteworthy that in the early 90s, it fits the vision of environmental collapse. Captain Planet came out the same time, so the defilers precipitating the post-apocalypse setting it was.
In hindsight, the dragon, a creature of hubris, and the opponent being a giant month, being Godzilla and Mothra is obvious.
3 random notes: For 2nd edition, Dark Sun characters attributes also ran to 20 (without racial variations). That helped to make everyone feel more than any other setting.
A halfing or thri-kreen's favorite meal is an elf.
Part of the fall of TSR was sales of the novels (of which I read many many many)--specifically, what happens when they don't sell. For mass market paperbacks. Booksellers could return hardcovers and trades for credit--and those excess books would be sold on for cheap as "remainders". For years, mass markets only needed the cover to be returned for the credit, but you can't sell that mass market stripped of the cover and had to get trashed. Lots of other obstacles and mistakes in TSR history, but those books not selling was a chunk of it.
I would like to see a Modernized fantasy version of Dark Sun tbh.
I guess the closet thing is like Mad Max? Sounds cool though!
@@exitsexamined yes, something like Mad Max but set in the modern-day 21st century.
We played Dark Sun for a little bit 'back in the day'. A time when so many RPGs came out there was no way to sustain them all. But we had a Thri Kreen and Cannibal Haflings. I was happy I finally made it through session and obtaining our objective. Only to die to a random encounter 2 days away from making it home. Shredded by a much higher level Bullet. I am actually working on a Drak Sun Mash Up. Its fun making stories or ideas in this setting.
anyone called Dark Sun "problematic" needs to be sent there to the land of Athas. They are the problem.
Great video! Darksun was one of the first pc RPGs I played, till this day still such a captivating world that influenced some home brew campaigns. I really would like to revisit the games I'm sure there was lots that went over my head at that age. E
extremely underrated
Ahhh Dark Sun, where even the grass is trying to kill you.
I fell in love with Dark Sun as soon as I saw it. One thought that really burned in my mind was, how did the world get to be this way?? As you mention in the video, while I enjoyed the Prism Pentad series of novels, I really *didn’t* like that they immediately spoiled the mystery of the world.
I know nothing about this setting. Just be hearing about it, I don't WotC to ever touch it. I don't want to think what they would do to it to make it palpable for the masses. Not every fantasy world has to be sterilzed for everyone to like everything in it. SOME 'bad' things are good in the context of a fictional setting.
They assume that everybody likes gay themes 🤐
Thanks for this great video! This world, with that Original Dark Sun branding and art, came out the year I started my first job, babysitting, specifically so I could afford to buy all those D&D books, magazines (Dragon! Dungeon!), and all the materials coming out in a flood then (Monstrous Compendium Binder Packs!) at the start of my D&D journey. Dark Sun has fascinated me ever since. Well done and thx:)
I remember MUDs, too, though that was a neighboring Geekdom for me, like larping or MTG. I don't remember anyone calling them M.U.D's at the time; we just called them "muds" (like wet dirt) and I recall at the time they were understood to stand for Multi-User Dungeons. Again, I was an outsider. So it's great to hear all this from a younger nerd, taking me back, and it was a nice return to a horrible world - one of the worst places, from a character's perspective, of all the places there were in D&D (A Game About Warfare). Dark Sun was and is evil, and it's worth exploring, for all the grandeur and excitement, and as a cautionary tale that has some value in our present times. Again, thanks for the video essay! I'll be back for more.
@@Lexicophage lol I also mentioned in research that definition of MUD, but apparently the developers made the acronym “dimension” instead due to a lack of true dungeons on Athas, which got a big laugh from me
I see dark sun and I click
Genuinely enjoying your videos, so many of these topics have always made me wonder, especially your video on Eyewitness. You have also brought many cool new things to my attention. Thanks for the videos!
Dark sun with the numbers filed off is Mörk Börg (jk)
I fell in love with Dark Sun as soon as I saw it. After buying the box set, one question that burned in my mind was, how did the world get this way?? While I enjoyed the Prism Pentad novels, I’ll echo the sentiment you mention that it felt like they spoiled the mystery of the world, especially since they came out so soon after the box set.
Is it just me, or were Muls just supposed to be pronounced as Mules. That was their point.
It's kinda like the Aeldari term mon-keigh in 40k.
I think I did the pronunciation similar to the audiobooks but I don't think a proper pronunciation guide was ever released for the setting! Would love to see one if there is one though
Yes, calling them "moles" is kinda cringe. It's obviously related to the sturdy but sterile cross-breeding of horses and donkeys, Mules.
I remember seeing Dark Sun books in bookstore back in the day, but didn't know anything about it beyond the cover art until this video. As both a fan of brutal, Heavy Metal/Frank Frazetta style fantasy and a HUGE fan of intricate world building, this fascinates the hell out of me!
I love scenarios where the world is broken and dying, and desperate "survivors" have to make painful choices between sticking to their morals and still being alive when the sun rises tomorrow, whether it's in movies, books, RPGs, or computer games. Dark Sun seems to scratch all of these itches. I'm glad I stumbled across this.
If you love the style definitely check out more of Brom art! If you're into that style fantasy do you know any others? Would love to check out more of them on the channel
The BG3 thing is actually a Cyric reference, nothing to do with Dark Sun.
ah really? hopes dashed
@@exitsexamined Yeah, sadly (I mean, not really, I think Cyric's a more appropriate reference for the BG series, but yeah, I'd love a proper Dark Sun CRPG). "The Dark Sun" is one of the many titles given to the god Cyric, from Forgotten Realms. He was, for a time, god of death, and he is connected in the lore to Jergal (Withers), and the Dead Three (Myrkul, Bane, Bhaal). So that note is most definitely about him.
Back in the 90's I ran a campaign with my friends focused on doing the bidding of an upset Gypsy. She cursed them to complete tasks in various settings like Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, (also Birthright if I remember correctly) and of course Dark Sun. Dark Sun was the hardest one to do. The mechanics and classes were so different, I just had to make it work. Travel in and out of there was supposed to be impossible, but for the sake of story, I made it happen. At the end of one of the DS adventures for the Gypsy, they met an NPC they loved and wanted to take him with them.. When it was time to make the jump to another setting, they all got absorbed by the fog teleportation method and appeared somewhere else without said NPC. Needless to say, whenever possible, they tried to go back to the hellscape of DS to find him but always failed. Never found him again. Very long campaign. Lasted years and was a fun challenge for me as a DM.
It's The Road for DnD
I was introduced to Dark Sun in 4e and found it fascinating. I am disappointed 5e won’t get it because Wizards of the Coast are afraid of pissing off the “modern audience.”
Ah yeah but maybe in future editions will get one!
I have a big soft spot for Athas, I'm currently running a Planescape game where a couple of my players are from there so I did a disgusting amount of research into the setting and it's timeline and such to make a decent reasoning for it to be back in the multiverse, even found a really cool old dragon magazine article about what Athasians would be like when out of Athas! I would LOVE to see it get some new attention, I think all the gritty dark stuff makes for a fun challenge to play a hardcore hero, but man does it seem like some fans are like disturbingly attached to the grosser aspects of the setting and that's not easy to work with
can i ask what edition you're running your Planescape game in? i've been planning a Planescape campaign for a pretty long time but can't decide what edition to use or whether i should even use DnD.
@@sewerentropy5217 I'm just using 5e honestly, it's mostly just for familiarity and simplicity of the rules. I HAVE done a lot of reading through old 2e books to get a proper understanding of the setting and what kinda environment it was created in, but any mechanic stuff I found from those I've done my best to convert to 5e cause again the 2e stuff is just whack to me like I can't wrap my head around THAC0 despite how basic it probably really is XD
@@sewerentropy5217 I'm just running it in 5e cause it's familiar and simple for me to understand ;^^ I HAVE done a lot of reading of old 2e material to understand the setting and the environment it was made in, but I've done my best to convert any old stuff I enjoy into 5e stuff cause again it's easier for me X3
@@zpiotroski for me, I feel like there’s great potential for heroism in DS. When the party makes a sacrifice to do good (free slaves, overthrow a Templar, give water to a dying man) it means so much more.
I know WOTC is leery of the “problematic” aspects, but I feel with some minor tweaking you could really emphasize the more socially relevant themes (environmental collapse spurred on by a ruling class seeking profit and power, resistance to authoritarianism, binding a milieu of many into a cooperative democratic whole). So many forget some bits from the original 2e set along the lines of “templars, defiles, and slaveholders can never be good; neutral is as generous an alignment they can achieve”. Highlight that in their setting writing and reframe some “all x’s are y” descriptions as “the culture of x values y and here’s the reason”, and I don’t think they have anything to be afraid of “in the discourse”.
@@EndyHawk Man you get it exactly my dude, I've always been of the opinion that D&D kinda NEEDS these evils around so that it can be directly challenged and be like "yeah this is evil, how do you solve it?" instead of taking the question away all together, my friends and I joke about Athas being a place where good never really triumphs in the long term but honestly that just means the short term good you can do is all the more important!
Dark Sun and Spelljammer are my fave D&D settings, hence my art ;)
Also wrote up a simplified psionics system to help make it easier for players, was published in Polyhedron long time ago
Nice! Do you remember what issue? Might be one i have in my collection.
@@andersand6576 "Psionics Simplified" was title of the article, iirc
Swapped much of the Psionics handbook stuff for Players Handbook spells, tweaked, to make psionics WAY easier to run
sorry I'd need ot dig it out still have the magazine but, take bit finding it, was when Polyhedron was being run from England iirc
got lots of freebies for writing articles for it ;)
My RUclips channel has few of my very old Spelljammer and 1 Dark Sun animations :)
DeviantArt channel, same name SilverbladeTE, has lots of my D&D art
There's actually a stable portal to and from Dark Sun in the World Serpent's Inn. And if you can reach the inner planes, you just need to find another portal from there. Daunting but not 100% impossible.
And whenever someone says "isolated from the rest of the universe" it's truly shows the creator was "don't you dare come and mess around with MY sand box!"
Yeah this guys a bit of a heck
The original campaign setting declared this place is separated from the rest of the multiverse. The lore was changed in later editions
One of the great things about 2e was allowing different races and classes for different campaign settings that weren't compatible
Wizards of the Coast saying Dark Sun is "problematic" is horribly stupid.... of course it's problematic... as all brutal post-apoc setting SHOULD be.
I knew about Dark Sun because of the awesome art of Brom.
I read in Brom's artbook that It was the painting of Neeva (The Dominator) the Brom's personal project that the TSR saw and inmediately wanted for the game.
that Bron art tho
I loved Dark Sun, but I hated how they wedged in psionics as a magic “replacement” when it was so cool that magic use was rare and a bad thing to do.
It is interesting actually, do you know if any other DnD settings has psionic?
In my 50 years on this planet, I've found that "problematic" from too many people actually means "interesting" to most of us.
Great video, btw!
A great video, I was enthralled by Gamma World during that time and never gave Dark Sun a try
Hey thanks so much! I haven't checked out gamma world so much, what's the deal with it? maybe I'll cover it eventually!
It's such a unique fantasy setting...!
I remember seeing the boxed set for the first time in the store... psionics, high ability scores, awesome art! They made a great decision having Brom do all the art, and Troy Denning's flavor text brought it all together. I was actually in Judo classes with Troy in 1993, so that was awesome! I think one of my favorite concepts was the idea of a character tree... you already have your backups ready at day one of the campaign!
Whoa! You took a judo class with Troy? That's amazing haha how was that?