Nearly had all 4 in the basement as Huntress. 1 saved and they all had DS. So they didn't mind healing in the basement while I was present. Swf teams can be very creative. Allowing you to grab a survivor from a gen, while another is waiting behind a rock with a flashy ready. Mindgames that takes more than 1 survivor tends to work since it's not as common. Clever little turds.
Same, I always just hit the blocker, free hit for me, and I don't really lose anything. I've been doing this since the beginning, kinda shocked that people actually don't know to do this
Yeah exactly @@alexquinn9627 Most people know to do this, the issue is it feels like a loss for the killer even when they play correctly. There should be more counterplay against a survivor taking a protection hit, instead if the killer chooses to drop chase with the person they were chasing to chase somebody who was hooked already, you risk being hit with DS if you don't wait it out/guard the slug. Which is unfun for both sides.
It's a hard choice. Sometimes it's better to avoid the ds person and others it's better to hit them. I say consider these factors: How close is the unhooker to the hook when you hit the the first time, do you have Rapid Brutality/Save The Best For Last, do you know how many pallets are nearby, and how many generators are left?
That's what I always see Tru3 NOT doing. The player can bodyblock him and he just loses more time trying to maneuver around the guy, rather than just hit them. I'm sure he can tell why he's doing that, but I don't have the courage to ask him.
Sounds like he is at least living rent free in your head lol, who cares you do you as for me I'll tunnel you out and make your game miserable if I get DS used offensively because it is a scum move. Before you stay yelling "killer main" crap it's not like survivors have stopped complaining about tunneling when they are doing this exact POS crap.
Exactly. Make them mend for 12s, and continue applying pressure. Time spent being indecisive or seeing red and tunneling is the desired outcome on the survivor side.
I feel like offensive DS isn't a big deal but things like Buckle up for the people is pretty indefensible. It doesn't take a morsel of skill and you get an insane payoff for it
Nahh the problem is that an “anti tunnel” perk is being used in unintended ways. Ds shouldn’t be an offensive perk, that’s why they made it disappear for actions in the first place
Yes because DS + unbreakable being back along with plot twist to make it even stronger is such a healthy thing for a game that's already in a shit state
DbD players today would've combusted over old DS and dribbling...even in the worst case scenario today with offensive DS bodyblocking, its nothing compared to losing an extra 20 seconds every down to dribble them to the nearest hook, or immediately eat the stun and chew through an additional health state
I'd love everyone to experience playing 2016/17 wraith on that map with a small house overlooking an entire field of pallets and low objects. With old ds and old everything.
old dbd was unbalanced on both sides and players were terrible. Eating a stun after each down was stupid but players would go down fast anyway. You just cant have that level of stupidity in today's balance
There are some other techniques you can use depending on the killer. Legion can use frenzy and use the speed to catch the other survivor, myers can use stalk to phase through, Sadako can demanifest. Know your killer power because some killer powers allow you to efficiently push through these survivors
The people who don't know how to deal with DS are the same people who haven't played before the meta shakeup patch. I get we have OTR but not much changes because you'd still just hit them and then ignore them all the same as you would before.
You hit them and go into the 2.7 second recovery from a hit. In that time the survivor will run 10.8m (with no speed boost). You then gain 0.6m/s, meaning you hitting the person who has DS just cost you 18 seconds in the chase with the unhooker.
@@TrueCarthaginian This. It's like... unless they are SWF (at which point yeah there is nothing you can do) then usually that means 2/4th of the people aren't doing gens. And odds are the third will have to leave to go for the pick up unless they know or notice the slug has Unbreakable (which they might not). That is VERY good.
My favorite is when another survivor thinks I'm tunneling, so they take a hit, but they're actually the one I want to chase, so they just gave me half of exactly what I wanted. XD
This is why my Killer main is Mikey you can go right through people who try to body block and that he can kill without hooking at all and I run one of the tombstones every game....
You see Scott, that 2 second window is the difference between getting a free hit on the unhooker or going on a long run with them in a pallet city. When you choose to hit the bodyblocker it’s always benefiting them in some way. So, considering mentioned details, the best way to counterplay this situation is to smartly navigate around the bodyblocker and hitting them only, if they actually get you stuck.
I feel a fair bit of sympathy for Scott, that he actually felt a video like this needed to be made in the first place because people are whining about it. Some players really are uniquely challenged.
I don’t think the problem is abusing instant unhook protection, meaning the little 5 second window scott mentioned, it seems to be more where the survivor will get unhooked and run out of their way to get in front of the killer. In those cases, a 5 second no collision window isnt preventing anything.
I think it was scott that said that killer tunneling two survivors but alternating between them so that you can waste one persons resources while you chase the other... was pretty spot on advice. I am assuming that was advice i cant remember the context. But if you commit to not tunneling a single person(at least not all at once) then the survivors technically only have 3 perks.
What would be more effective Scott, Doing what you are saying to do here, or waiting out the 10 seconds of base kit borrowed time and then slugging them for pressure?
It can massively backfire, since Off The Record exists and many survivors are using it. Back in the day, it was a valid strategy to wait out borrowed time, but not anymore.
@@Mickeymouse7727 It’s unlikely, that you’ll be able to consistently tell, if the person has Off The Record behind chase music, different surrounding sounds and potential chaos of the match.
Pyramid Head is strong in this scenario. Your power can hit both of them at the right time, and if you place a torment trail down and the unhooked player runs through it, free cage of torment. Even if they hide in a locket, you can wait out the deep wound, then cage them when they fall out
Honestly when I see someone abusing DS instead of using it as an anti-tunnel measure, I usually either eat DS (if it is in the middle of the nowhere) or slug that person, wait a minute above my slug, pick him up and tunnel the hell out of him the moment unhook happens again. I may lose a game to that, but I get more satisfaction from giving that person what he deserves than from 3 or 4k anyway. It is pre-DS nerf style type of approach all over again. The worst part is, that the moment this buff was announced, people who warned that this would be abused (again) were laughed at. Well, they were right.
It's usually easy enough to ignore aggressive use of DS, though, so I wouldn't call it abusing it - even if it is hilarious to see the survivors run straight to a locker after getting unhooked xD
@@moon_yt-uj3zk I admit it is vile, because it is fighting fire with fire. But lets admit, no one wants respect of people who abuse shit and then play victim when it doesn´t work out. So... oh no!.... anyway :) Im more than happy to play for 2 hooks on everyone and have a nice rollercoaster game full of fun moments. But don´t expect people to play nice if you take gloves off first.
if you hit the unhooked survivor, usually the unhooker makes it to the next pallet or window, so this is not a good advice, but maybe the best we have.
Well tbf, the guy you just hit could use that speedburst to run at the guy they were trying to bodyblock for, and then use DS if they go down. Obviously not an efficient way of playing, but it’s something they could do
I'm very thankful when they decide to do that to me. It gives me the go-ahead to tunnel them out of the game, and it gets super easy from there. Good players don't really waste time trying to body block and instead rush to advance the game. So if they do this they're very very likely to be pretty bad or new to the game, meaning it's a safe bet to tunnel. So i kinda disagree with Scoot here. There are situations where you don't want to do this, like if you know the unhooker is on their death hook and the person body-blocking has only that one hook, then its a bad idea because you'd hit a 3 man faster by just hitting then ignoring the body blocker. But if its the beginning of the match, or the other person has no hooks, much better to intentionally eat the DS and tunnel the dude out. Theyve not only given you permission but its also the most effective in this scenario.
Chase them away slightly, then turn around, face away, and instantly pick up. Even with background player, they're unlikely to be able to get in front of you again to blind you
that way they won't be able to do it again and you probably won't lose your slug (the time you wasted eating the DS is worth the time that survivor wasn't doing a gen anyway)
@@robert_dbd u gotta check on gens anyway so thats not true. You might not have a clear direction to go to but u know which gens may or may not have progress, regardless of distortion. Maybe people got bad at tracking or have no game sense which results in more proxy camping... maybe this comes closer to the truth. Killers rely too much on aura reading these days
@@SenkoVT tracking was never good in dbd be it with or without perks. do you remember the immersive claudette meme? crouching in a bush with her stealth clothes and waiting there for 20mins? if survivors dont want to be found there is no counterplay to it, naturally. always has been like this
Unless I'm in a good chase I'm confident I can win quickly, I'll always go back to the hook. 2 survivors in one spot, probably in the open, without the time to pre-run 8 million miles away like the dude I just chased off a gen? One of them injured and on at least one hook state. Unless you're in a good chase, proxy camping and going back to the hook is the right play.
you can do that, i just think efficiency wise its way worse. you have to go through the BT hit, then the downing hit, then the DS, then a possible DH, then another hit. its too much IMO
I don't enjoy the idea of losing Collison off hook for a couple seconds. On both sides I like the aspect of the person getting unhooked to body block for their teammate so they both can get to safety and possibly have a really good chase out of that.
"Just hit them"' is kinda like how sometimes I'm mentally screaming "Just kick the pallet!" when I'm looping a killer in DBD. Like, just kick it... if you can't mindgame that pallet just break it, I won't be able to use it anymore! Heck, when I''m killer sometimes I LET people drop the pallet on me so I can get rid of a certain pallet faster for later in the match
if you actually do the math correctly the speed boost contributes way less than the hit cooldown 6.6-4=2.6 extra meters gained by the surv per second of the on hit sprint, 2.6*1.8=4.68 total meters gained from the speed boost 4.6-0.575=4.025 extra meters lost by the killer per second of the hit cooldown, 4.025*2.7=10.8675 total meters lost from the speed boost thats nearing double the distance gained from an exhaustion, so yeah hate to break it to you but this is still a massive issue
iirc the killer movement speed is not 0.5m/s throughout while wiping, its a gradient that speeds up closer to the end. if that's correct its closer but regardless the correct play is still what i said, to always just hit the person instead of trying to spend time maneuvering around them.
The big problem with this is the survivor with DS can body block you AGAIN a second or two after the hit. Especially with basekit bt or off the record so you have to hit them twice just to get back to the survivor you want to chase. And if you dont eat their DS they will take 2 more hits the next time they are unhooked.
@@Moses_16 even with unbreakable it’s a one time use perk if they use it then they just wasted their unbreakable that could’ve been used for a crucial situation where you really need it
@@SolidRazo I don't think you realize what a "waste" is. The waste is that the killer just missed out on 1-2 hits on someone that could be their pain res/pop to stop an important gen while 2 others are pumping gens for free. The person slugged will pick themselves up with unbreakable if you slug and if you eat ds you can then eat a dh and that chase is a massive time sink.
I've been watching scoot's streams recently, and no wonder this video came out it was *so bad* yesterday with the constant DS. Maybe next you should make a video on not Disconnecting, it seems like survivors are having an issue with that recently...
In a context where time is important those "2 sec as scot says" could end up resulting in the survivor being into a position where its more then 2 sec to get a down the idea that just hit them forehead is a dishonest statement , what this means is u could lose 8+ sec on a chase because that survivor stood infornt of you and you hit them sure positioning of where this happens matters but is not a simple unga bunga 2 sec it has variance and can often be more impactful then just saying 2 sec lol implies
If the unknown can body block basement stairs to get a free down when I’m healthy after unhooking somebody then yeah no don’t take away collision when I get unhooked please
Lately I have noticed that killer mains tunnel the person who tried to bodyblock for 10 seconds and types about it on post game chat or even on their profile steam in notes this is so weird to me
Order of Pressure: Sacrifice > Hook > Slug > Chase > Deep Wounds If you're at hook as it is, you _want_ to smack the person off hook to give them Deep Wounds. If they're still around trying for DS, just leave them slugged, it's free pressure. Actual free pressure: All you had to do was be there
I don't understand why people get mad in the end-game chat when they fail to DS or Boil Over bait me and I just never pick them up.....I had a Kate yesterday raging in end-game chat until the chat automatically closed because she kept kiting me upstairs in Haddonfield and going down up there on purpose. Am I supposed to eat the Boil Over bait and just fail hook carries over and over?
4:00 yep, and then they gain 12 seconds of distance, but you are assuming they do it right off the hook. No its worse than that, they run OTR too, go get themselves healed by a teammate, take a hit while healthy, 12 seconds of distance, then take another hit while injured, 12 seconds of distance, then take another hit and they are on the ground 12 seconds of distance. So now they wasted 36 seconds where 2 survivors just freely worked on a gen, and oh, they have unbreakable too and pick themselves up if you leave them. So by the time you eventually down the guy you were originally chasing, you are spending a solid 60+ seconds of time where 2 survivors are free to work gens, and another 20-30 while that DS guy can just go safely work a gen, and look you just lost 3 gens again. Not everyone is playing nurse.
I don’t get setting it back to 5 sec. I would have done 4.25 sec should be plenty for most killers and it will lessen people wanting to use it so offensive since it’s not quite as strong. A good middle of the road if you will.
They should make it to where if you get unhooked you’re invincible until healed and make it so that person can only unhook and heal others standing or have someone heal them to be able to do gens and other stuff the person has no collision until healed the trade is they can’t do anything until healed this would buy the killer some time to pressure them if all survivors are not healing the game will go into automatic endgame and kill all survivors after 15 -20 mins of full gameplay as well as if every survivor that is downed except the invincible person it goes off and they can be downed and make saves instant instead of a bar but now as killer if you want to go back to hook you can hit the saver and not have to worry about a body block body block will still be a thing just not off hook they will have to change perks like nurses to work after the fact of you healing anywhere on the map as well as other healing perks as well a a new obsession mechanic everyone now starts the trail as obsession when hooked you lose obsession until healed again from hook then gain it back this would buff obsession based perks you would have to rework some but perks like play with your food would be good and save could work if you hit your obsessions you gain tokens but if you miss a basic attack you lose 2 tokens this make save how it should have been changed then add a 50 % regression on gens that have not been worked on over 45 seconds and add back skillchecks to totems that is all I think it fix base game to feel more free you could not complain as survivor or killer
Also, are survs really unhooking people in your face soo much that you're hit with both borrowed time and body blocking all the time? Usually if I hook someone I'll be off towards whatever gen I think the survs are working on. Usually I'm even in a new chase before the hooked person is unhooked. I'm not suggesting it's impossible for a killer to get body blocked by someone unhooked 20 seconds ago that just beelined towards you across the map, but together with borrowed time is very rare. If they have OTR+DS sure they have 60seconds to find you and block you but at that point they're basically not progressing the game for 60seconds and as other commenters here are saying, that means 2 people at least that aren't at gens. My secret weapon against it is just to instantly patrol gens after hooking someone. I don't stay around unless I spot a surv close by that's convenient to chase. If I don't, I go off to pressure gens. That way I'm wasting at least 3 people's time, the unhooked, the unhooker, and the person I chased off a gen. But I guess this is very foreign as a concept for many killers. Or maybe survs are so dead set on those Bps that they farm people off the hook in front of the killer. Back in the days of basement bubba the whole community, even the lowest tier of players, knew sorta how to deal with it. You just slam gens. But this has been forgotten these days.
"Not progressing the game" if they're tanking hits for teammates you're not progressing the game either while 2 people are still on gens. Your next chase will be delayed preventing a pr/pop that could stop an important gen.
I like in these situations where "survivor is doing something shitty" it's pretty much always to mitigate something the killer is doing that's shitty, in this example proxy camping or going right back to hook. It's ok for killer cause he's trying to win, but it's not ok for survivors to try and win using bullshit.
Its situational. If the killer has no info on other survivors to exert pressure they'll probably go back to the hook because they have nothing else to do. The main reason I would say most killers proxy camp is because they can exert pressure on a wider area.
how delusional are you wat. i never ever tunnel when i play killer and the unhooked survivor still runs into my face 9/10 times simply because of their funny 2nd chance perks allow them to be obnoxious d1cks. you go out of your way to not tunnel, eat shit for it, and then survivors will still complain why you "tunneled them" after they ran into you on purpose and body blocked for someone else who wasnt even hooked yet while they themselves are on death hook. also just a friendly reminder that survivors are the toxic side. there are so many survivor-only players that outright refuse to ever play killer, therefore are garbo at the game yet still have the biggest ego and are massive crybabies. just like you, your comment is the biggest clichee survivor comment ever, you said that body blocking is the killers fault, 🤡 twitter user
From what ive seen the complaining isnt just basekit bt and DS. Its DS,OTR,Unbreakable, Dead hard. You smack the survivor they have OTR and just run forward to block you again. You down them. They have unbreakable. You pick them up. They have DS into a DH chase. Stacking second chances into basically a artillery to blast the killer with.
Hyper specific scenarios again, you will most likely never encounter this unless you just play their game of using all the anti-tunneling tools against you because you let them Even if they force it OTR just needs one smack and it’s gone, when you down them just slug them if they use their unbreakable now they don’t have unbreakable for the rest of the game, they have Deadhard? if they use it once you now know they have it and Deadhard is very easy to bait and DS only lasts a minute that is not a long time so it should go away when you’re chasing someone else. Literally just play smart the player trying their hardest to abuse 3 anti-tunnel perks will always waste their own time trying to get value out of it and once those perks are not in use their the easiest survivor to take down because they have no chase perk or anything to really help them.
@@SolidRazo The problem is when 4 people do it in a trial. This was literally the meta in 2020 and was called the small pp build for a reason. It'll get a lot more popular in the coming weeks.
@@SolidRazowhat are chase perks or good ones? I always thought dead hard was a chase perk but I guess not? Seems that’s the better route to go as survivor
It's also worth considering that deep wounds take 12 seconds to mend, so taking a hit to buy 2 seconds of distance for another survivor could potentially be a net negative for the survivors.
Scott, you are not correct about the hit fatigue. The on-hit sprint boost für survivors is 6.6 m/s for 1.8 s. That's 4.7m extra distance. The killer fatigue is 2.7 s at 0.46 m/s, although this massive slowdown is not for the entire duration. Nonetheless the killer loses the difference to his base running speed at 4.6 m/s. This is definitely more than the survivors spring boost causes. (about double)
@@maxmustermann3876 its nearly nonsense why you calculate both when you should just ignore the surv who sprint burst. You compare both which normaly you shouldn't beside you switch target. 4.0 m/s compare to 0.46 m/s make more sense
@@muysli.y1855 Your English is so bad, one can't understand anything. I guess you completely miss my point ... Scott said in the video, that the distance mostly is due to the sprint boost of the survivor and not the hit fatigue of the killer. I calculated both aspects individually and compared them. Conclusion: Scott is wrong
Your calculations are irrelevant because the correct play is to CHASE THE ONE THAT WASNT SPEED BOOSTED. Talk about brainless.. conclusion: You suck at math.
Well if you lose collision for a few seconds survivors would just fun completely on top of the person they unhooked, and it would be completely RNG if the killer hits the right person. Can already see how that would play out
There is also currently an exploit to completely avoid DS; making the perk do nothing, however, I have reported this to behavior's email so it shouldn't be around for long. No, I am not sharing.
No what they going to do and most do this to me is use the speed boost you just have them to follow the unhooker and then body block you again this time in a jungle jam or at a pallet since they have DS and know you can't pick them up. Then you slug them but they are mostly likely going to have either unbreakable or plot twists and just pick themselves up again. I'm sorry but killer is always will be in a lose lose situation when it comes to offensive DS, there is no playing around it other than slugging or eating the DS.
funnily enough, pyramid head can kinda ignore DS unless the players avoid his trails, his addons might be garbage, but he can ignore this one specific strategy ;D
4:13 wrong again, its 12 seconds of distance. 2.7 second attack cooldown, the survivor moves 10.8 meters away, the max range of killer lunge on a running survivor is 3.5 meters of distance with a 0.6 m/s gaining as you chase them = 12.16 seconds of distance.
Forced penance once again my favorite perk You wanna block? sure hope you didn't need that 2nd health state for 80+ seconds it's a lot more punishing to not be able to eat a hit mend then heal back to full
Your math seems wrong. If the killer's fatigue takes 2 sec at which he doesn't move, then it takes about 13 sec to catch up this extra distance. Why? Surv runs 4 m/s for 2 sec, so he gains 8m. Normal killer moves at 4.6 m/s, so it takes him 13 s.
This isn't even the biggest gripe people have. It's when you are actively not tunneling, i.e. hook someone different, and still getting hit with an anti tunnel perk. I understand they are being useless in the meantime, but it doesn't change the fact that it's irritating when it happens. Anti tunnel perks should probably be changed to deactivate when someone else is hooked
And lastly, the solution to this whole problem is to completely rework DS, they shouldn't lock anti-tunnel behind a perk you have to spend money to acquire. It should be a basekit mechanic the game is balanced around.
Any time survivors get defensive tools, they will ALWAYS use it offensively. It's just proven at this point. I'm not against DS being used offensively, but I will absolutely, 100% of the time run someone down if they use their unhook endurance to get a protection hit. I will NEVER chase you off of hook otherwise. Use your offhook endurance that was created to let you run away from the killer for free to RUN AWAY. The reason I'm cool with DS is that it took a perk slot, and you had to plan for it to be used. Taking a protection hit through unga tactics with basekit grace period stuff will only get you killed faster by me.
Don’t think I didn’t just watch you look up sables skirt Scott you dawg 0:34
bro did it on PURPOSE B)
cant blame him
Vile scott strikes again
WOW had no idea they put this much detail into it
caught on 4k
I normally just uninstall but thanks shart
Start*
@@soloyapper769did he stutter?
@@boofenshmirtz6426 did he shart*?
Vile shart
Sarht
Great camera work while healing, sign of a good player.
Yeah I think he should stream this game.
@@lunarwarrior5 he could probably make a career out of it.
@@thezard7013 now you're pushing it
Flashbacks to all 4 survivors having DS active in the endgame
Nearly had all 4 in the basement as Huntress. 1 saved and they all had DS. So they didn't mind healing in the basement while I was present.
Swf teams can be very creative. Allowing you to grab a survivor from a gen, while another is waiting behind a rock with a flashy ready. Mindgames that takes more than 1 survivor tends to work since it's not as common. Clever little turds.
I had 4 wicked perk swf. Rotated with dstrike, I can't let them go for free
@@dbdstuffuncutat that point stop hooking in the basement lol
The answer is to face camp Dwight in the next game.
Same, I always just hit the blocker, free hit for me, and I don't really lose anything. I've been doing this since the beginning, kinda shocked that people actually don't know to do this
What? You lose the distance of wiping your weapon after the successful hit.
Yeah exactly @@alexquinn9627
Most people know to do this, the issue is it feels like a loss for the killer even when they play correctly. There should be more counterplay against a survivor taking a protection hit, instead if the killer chooses to drop chase with the person they were chasing to chase somebody who was hooked already, you risk being hit with DS if you don't wait it out/guard the slug. Which is unfun for both sides.
It's a hard choice. Sometimes it's better to avoid the ds person and others it's better to hit them. I say consider these factors: How close is the unhooker to the hook when you hit the the first time, do you have Rapid Brutality/Save The Best For Last, do you know how many pallets are nearby, and how many generators are left?
The guy who bodyblock also not working on gen so its a small lose for both
@@alexquinn9627 did you watch the video?
That's what I always see Tru3 NOT doing. The player can bodyblock him and he just loses more time trying to maneuver around the guy, rather than just hit them.
I'm sure he can tell why he's doing that, but I don't have the courage to ask him.
You lose 2.0s instead of 5-10s to maneuver
Sounds like he is at least living rent free in your head lol, who cares you do you as for me I'll tunnel you out and make your game miserable if I get DS used offensively because it is a scum move. Before you stay yelling "killer main" crap it's not like survivors have stopped complaining about tunneling when they are doing this exact POS crap.
"i don't have the courage to ask him" bro is this a parody comment 💀
@@j0hnicide I have no idea what drama you're talking about. I just watch his streams from time to time.
@@j0hnicidenot everyone is chronically on Twitter, tracking the drama. This is satire, right?
Exactly. Make them mend for 12s, and continue applying pressure. Time spent being indecisive or seeing red and tunneling is the desired outcome on the survivor side.
Fr. Like they literally want you to get tilted and tunnel them
You must play killers with anti-loop to be talking like this
12s less working on gen
True, but too many killer mains are like a dog with a bone who get titled on DS lol.
no views, 6 likes - Scott blowing up
such a corny comment .. how can you be more original?
Literally no one asked
@@mikhailjordanov5863 It maybe corny but nothing cornier than getting mad at a harmless comment
@@IKnowWhatYouDid3 are you okay? having a bad day? or do you always have a stick up your ass?
people when survivors using perks and teamplay benefits them: 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
I feel like offensive DS isn't a big deal but things like Buckle up for the people is pretty indefensible. It doesn't take a morsel of skill and you get an insane payoff for it
Nahh the problem is that an “anti tunnel” perk is being used in unintended ways. Ds shouldn’t be an offensive perk, that’s why they made it disappear for actions in the first place
Yes because DS + unbreakable being back along with plot twist to make it even stronger is such a healthy thing for a game that's already in a shit state
DbD players today would've combusted over old DS and dribbling...even in the worst case scenario today with offensive DS bodyblocking, its nothing compared to losing an extra 20 seconds every down to dribble them to the nearest hook, or immediately eat the stun and chew through an additional health state
I'd love everyone to experience playing 2016/17 wraith on that map with a small house overlooking an entire field of pallets and low objects. With old ds and old everything.
Old sabo to boot
As killer though you had that elusive ruin on undying teleporting all over the map, 4/5 totems done and ruin still up lol
old dbd was unbalanced on both sides and players were terrible. Eating a stun after each down was stupid but players would go down fast anyway. You just cant have that level of stupidity in today's balance
There are some other techniques you can use depending on the killer. Legion can use frenzy and use the speed to catch the other survivor, myers can use stalk to phase through, Sadako can demanifest. Know your killer power because some killer powers allow you to efficiently push through these survivors
The people who don't know how to deal with DS are the same people who haven't played before the meta shakeup patch. I get we have OTR but not much changes because you'd still just hit them and then ignore them all the same as you would before.
You hit them and go into the 2.7 second recovery from a hit. In that time the survivor will run 10.8m (with no speed boost). You then gain 0.6m/s, meaning you hitting the person who has DS just cost you 18 seconds in the chase with the unhooker.
And you're pressuring half of the team during this. 3/4ths if another survivor comes to try and pick up the slugged teammate.
Or you could try to not hit them, get body blocked, and waste even more time.
@@TrueCarthaginian This. It's like... unless they are SWF (at which point yeah there is nothing you can do) then usually that means 2/4th of the people aren't doing gens. And odds are the third will have to leave to go for the pick up unless they know or notice the slug has Unbreakable (which they might not). That is VERY good.
Just another reason that STBFL and Rapid Brutality is so goated rn
Oh you wanna take hits? Thanks, I'm even stronger now
You're also wasting the time of two different people and wasting several seconds of one survivor's time because they will have to mend.
I like that no collision idea.
My favorite is when another survivor thinks I'm tunneling, so they take a hit, but they're actually the one I want to chase, so they just gave me half of exactly what I wanted. XD
This is why my Killer main is Mikey you can go right through people who try to body block and that he can kill without hooking at all and I run one of the tombstones every game....
So basically sadako but worse innit
You see Scott, that 2 second window is the difference between getting a free hit on the unhooker or going on a long run with them in a pallet city. When you choose to hit the bodyblocker it’s always benefiting them in some way. So, considering mentioned details, the best way to counterplay this situation is to smartly navigate around the bodyblocker and hitting them only, if they actually get you stuck.
I feel a fair bit of sympathy for Scott, that he actually felt a video like this needed to be made in the first place because people are whining about it. Some players really are uniquely challenged.
I don’t think the problem is abusing instant unhook protection, meaning the little 5 second window scott mentioned, it seems to be more where the survivor will get unhooked and run out of their way to get in front of the killer. In those cases, a 5 second no collision window isnt preventing anything.
Lmao I literally knew about this technique forever, surprised that you literally had to make a video on this 😂
Unhooker? I hardly know her
I think it was scott that said that killer tunneling two survivors but alternating between them so that you can waste one persons resources while you chase the other... was pretty spot on advice. I am assuming that was advice i cant remember the context.
But if you commit to not tunneling a single person(at least not all at once) then the survivors technically only have 3 perks.
What would be more effective Scott, Doing what you are saying to do here, or waiting out the 10 seconds of base kit borrowed time and then slugging them for pressure?
It can massively backfire, since Off The Record exists and many survivors are using it. Back in the day, it was a valid strategy to wait out borrowed time, but not anymore.
@@rednuefil6050 Are you unaware of how to tell if someone has Off the record or not? You do know there is a way to do that, right?
@@Mickeymouse7727 It’s unlikely, that you’ll be able to consistently tell, if the person has Off The Record behind chase music, different surrounding sounds and potential chaos of the match.
@@rednuefil6050 Yeah that's a fair point
Pyramid Head is strong in this scenario. Your power can hit both of them at the right time, and if you place a torment trail down and the unhooked player runs through it, free cage of torment. Even if they hide in a locket, you can wait out the deep wound, then cage them when they fall out
Did they fix the OTR endurance bug?
Honestly when I see someone abusing DS instead of using it as an anti-tunnel measure, I usually either eat DS (if it is in the middle of the nowhere) or slug that person, wait a minute above my slug, pick him up and tunnel the hell out of him the moment unhook happens again. I may lose a game to that, but I get more satisfaction from giving that person what he deserves than from 3 or 4k anyway. It is pre-DS nerf style type of approach all over again.
The worst part is, that the moment this buff was announced, people who warned that this would be abused (again) were laughed at. Well, they were right.
You could just play normally and still get the 3k or 4k to show them that it doesn't help them as much as everyone is making it out to be.
It's usually easy enough to ignore aggressive use of DS, though, so I wouldn't call it abusing it - even if it is hilarious to see the survivors run straight to a locker after getting unhooked xD
@@TurbulentEitriexactly what a psychopath
You’re the reason many survivors don’t respect killers js
@@moon_yt-uj3zk I admit it is vile, because it is fighting fire with fire. But lets admit, no one wants respect of people who abuse shit and then play victim when it doesn´t work out.
So... oh no!.... anyway :)
Im more than happy to play for 2 hooks on everyone and have a nice rollercoaster game full of fun moments. But don´t expect people to play nice if you take gloves off first.
What if they just use some kind of timer and start the timer whenever someone gets unhooked?
if you hit the unhooked survivor, usually the unhooker makes it to the next pallet or window, so this is not a good advice, but maybe the best we have.
Well tbf, the guy you just hit could use that speedburst to run at the guy they were trying to bodyblock for, and then use DS if they go down.
Obviously not an efficient way of playing, but it’s something they could do
You could also just put them in Cage of Atonement as Pyramid Head (The Executioner) to disregard the DS counter-play all together.
I'm very thankful when they decide to do that to me. It gives me the go-ahead to tunnel them out of the game, and it gets super easy from there. Good players don't really waste time trying to body block and instead rush to advance the game. So if they do this they're very very likely to be pretty bad or new to the game, meaning it's a safe bet to tunnel.
So i kinda disagree with Scoot here. There are situations where you don't want to do this, like if you know the unhooker is on their death hook and the person body-blocking has only that one hook, then its a bad idea because you'd hit a 3 man faster by just hitting then ignoring the body blocker. But if its the beginning of the match, or the other person has no hooks, much better to intentionally eat the DS and tunnel the dude out. Theyve not only given you permission but its also the most effective in this scenario.
Got any tips for dealing with people with flashlights hanging around your chase with DS?
Chase them away slightly, then turn around, face away, and instantly pick up. Even with background player, they're unlikely to be able to get in front of you again to blind you
@@Pandemic1313 And when they hop in the locker their teammate went down next to?
@Brawlatron Eat the DS, unironically. They're just giving it to you. Now they can be tunneled easier next time
@@Brawlatron You open the locker and pull them out
that way they won't be able to do it again and you probably won't lose your slug (the time you wasted eating the DS is worth the time that survivor wasn't doing a gen anyway)
Can we ask the question why killers are seemingly ALWAYS at the hook when the unhook happens?
Maybe theres a problem as well
You use bbq to see no one due to distortion and such and are forced to return to hook or you're doing nothing
@@robert_dbd u gotta check on gens anyway so thats not true.
You might not have a clear direction to go to but u know which gens may or may not have progress, regardless of distortion.
Maybe people got bad at tracking or have no game sense which results in more proxy camping... maybe this comes closer to the truth. Killers rely too much on aura reading these days
@@SenkoVT tracking was never good in dbd be it with or without perks. do you remember the immersive claudette meme? crouching in a bush with her stealth clothes and waiting there for 20mins? if survivors dont want to be found there is no counterplay to it, naturally. always has been like this
Unless I'm in a good chase I'm confident I can win quickly, I'll always go back to the hook. 2 survivors in one spot, probably in the open, without the time to pre-run 8 million miles away like the dude I just chased off a gen?
One of them injured and on at least one hook state.
Unless you're in a good chase, proxy camping and going back to the hook is the right play.
@@robert_dbd Sounds like you don't know how to patrol gens.
Low tier player.
I miss when scott used to eat bowls of rice. F in the chat boys
I just take it since it means they no longer can use it anymore. If they’re doing this, this must mean they want to be tunneled right?
I do it on survivor sometimes when I don’t want a teammate trading hooks with me, fully aware that I am welcoming the killer to tunnel me
you can do that, i just think efficiency wise its way worse. you have to go through the BT hit, then the downing hit, then the DS, then a possible DH, then another hit. its too much IMO
@ScottJund You don't have to go through the BT hit. Wait 10 seconds, down. Eat DS, then tunnel the little shit stain out of the game.
Do you think DBD is better when the game is more killer sided or when it is more survivor sided?
When do you collab with tru¿talent and the Hans guy?
the permanent scar that ds has left on this game should be studied how is this perk still problematic
I don't enjoy the idea of losing Collison off hook for a couple seconds. On both sides I like the aspect of the person getting unhooked to body block for their teammate so they both can get to safety and possibly have a really good chase out of that.
"Just hit them"' is kinda like how sometimes I'm mentally screaming "Just kick the pallet!" when I'm looping a killer in DBD. Like, just kick it... if you can't mindgame that pallet just break it, I won't be able to use it anymore! Heck, when I''m killer sometimes I LET people drop the pallet on me so I can get rid of a certain pallet faster for later in the match
Remember what was always said about DH? "Just wait it out" while survivors has an auto DH cheat installed.
sometimes i don't break the pallet just so i can force them onto the other side THEN i break it so they're facing a dead zone rather than another loop
@@blazeyprime4470 what are you talking about, pallets are not even on the level of auto ds or waiting for ds, how is that even comparable?
I usually pretend to be a nice killer so that they touch a gen and disable their decisive strike and get an easy second hook
Lmao sounds like a war crime
That would still waste a tonne of time.
Mr. Scott what are you looking at ?
And survivors are complaining: „Why are they Tunneling me !!!!“
if you actually do the math correctly the speed boost contributes way less than the hit cooldown
6.6-4=2.6 extra meters gained by the surv per second of the on hit sprint, 2.6*1.8=4.68 total meters gained from the speed boost
4.6-0.575=4.025 extra meters lost by the killer per second of the hit cooldown, 4.025*2.7=10.8675 total meters lost from the speed boost
thats nearing double the distance gained from an exhaustion, so yeah hate to break it to you but this is still a massive issue
iirc the killer movement speed is not 0.5m/s throughout while wiping, its a gradient that speeds up closer to the end. if that's correct its closer but regardless the correct play is still what i said, to always just hit the person instead of trying to spend time maneuvering around them.
🤓
You can also count bt seconds and knock them down and leave them alone till ds runs out of time and chase someone else
The big problem with this is the survivor with DS can body block you AGAIN a second or two after the hit. Especially with basekit bt or off the record so you have to hit them twice just to get back to the survivor you want to chase. And if you dont eat their DS they will take 2 more hits the next time they are unhooked.
It’s amazing how people can’t wrap their head around just slugging the DS user like it should be obvious
*Unbreakable enters the chat*
@@Moses_16More of a reason why the basekit unbreakable idea was scrapped
@@Moses_16 even with unbreakable it’s a one time use perk if they use it then they just wasted their unbreakable that could’ve been used for a crucial situation where you really need it
It's hard to slug them since every other survivor also has OTR.
@@SolidRazo I don't think you realize what a "waste" is. The waste is that the killer just missed out on 1-2 hits on someone that could be their pain res/pop to stop an important gen while 2 others are pumping gens for free. The person slugged will pick themselves up with unbreakable if you slug and if you eat ds you can then eat a dh and that chase is a massive time sink.
why did you disregard UB?
I love you Scott
I've been watching scoot's streams recently, and no wonder this video came out
it was *so bad* yesterday with the constant DS.
Maybe next you should make a video on not Disconnecting, it seems like survivors are having an issue with that recently...
In a context where time is important those "2 sec as scot says" could end up resulting in the survivor being into a position where its more then 2 sec to get a down the idea that just hit them forehead is a dishonest statement , what this means is u could lose 8+ sec on a chase because that survivor stood infornt of you and you hit them sure positioning of where this happens matters but is not a simple unga bunga 2 sec it has variance and can often be more impactful then just saying 2 sec lol implies
If the unknown can body block basement stairs to get a free down when I’m healthy after unhooking somebody then yeah no don’t take away collision when I get unhooked please
Lately I have noticed that killer mains tunnel the person who tried to bodyblock for 10 seconds and types about it on post game chat or even on their profile steam in notes
this is so weird to me
Order of Pressure:
Sacrifice > Hook > Slug > Chase > Deep Wounds
If you're at hook as it is, you _want_ to smack the person off hook to give them Deep Wounds. If they're still around trying for DS, just leave them slugged, it's free pressure. Actual free pressure: All you had to do was be there
I don't understand why people get mad in the end-game chat when they fail to DS or Boil Over bait me and I just never pick them up.....I had a Kate yesterday raging in end-game chat until the chat automatically closed because she kept kiting me upstairs in Haddonfield and going down up there on purpose. Am I supposed to eat the Boil Over bait and just fail hook carries over and over?
4:00 yep, and then they gain 12 seconds of distance, but you are assuming they do it right off the hook. No its worse than that, they run OTR too, go get themselves healed by a teammate, take a hit while healthy, 12 seconds of distance, then take another hit while injured, 12 seconds of distance, then take another hit and they are on the ground 12 seconds of distance. So now they wasted 36 seconds where 2 survivors just freely worked on a gen, and oh, they have unbreakable too and pick themselves up if you leave them. So by the time you eventually down the guy you were originally chasing, you are spending a solid 60+ seconds of time where 2 survivors are free to work gens, and another 20-30 while that DS guy can just go safely work a gen, and look you just lost 3 gens again.
Not everyone is playing nurse.
0:38 Scott, mind explaining yourself.
Yeah he was being based
Yeah he was being based
bro was curious, no need for an investigation.
I don’t get setting it back to 5 sec. I would have done 4.25 sec should be plenty for most killers and it will lessen people wanting to use it so offensive since it’s not quite as strong. A good middle of the road if you will.
They should make it to where if you get unhooked you’re invincible until healed and make it so that person can only unhook and heal others standing or have someone heal them to be able to do gens and other stuff the person has no collision until healed the trade is they can’t do anything until healed this would buy the killer some time to pressure them if all survivors are not healing the game will go into automatic endgame and kill all survivors after 15 -20 mins of full gameplay as well as if every survivor that is downed except the invincible person it goes off and they can be downed and make saves instant instead of a bar but now as killer if you want to go back to hook you can hit the saver and not have to worry about a body block body block will still be a thing just not off hook they will have to change perks like nurses to work after the fact of you healing anywhere on the map as well as other healing perks as well a a new obsession mechanic everyone now starts the trail as obsession when hooked you lose obsession until healed again from hook then gain it back this would buff obsession based perks you would have to rework some but perks like play with your food would be good and save could work if you hit your obsessions you gain tokens but if you miss a basic attack you lose 2 tokens this make save how it should have been changed then add a 50 % regression on gens that have not been worked on over 45 seconds and add back skillchecks to totems that is all I think it fix base game to feel more free you could not complain as survivor or killer
🤗 thanks for the advice!
Also, are survs really unhooking people in your face soo much that you're hit with both borrowed time and body blocking all the time? Usually if I hook someone I'll be off towards whatever gen I think the survs are working on. Usually I'm even in a new chase before the hooked person is unhooked. I'm not suggesting it's impossible for a killer to get body blocked by someone unhooked 20 seconds ago that just beelined towards you across the map, but together with borrowed time is very rare. If they have OTR+DS sure they have 60seconds to find you and block you but at that point they're basically not progressing the game for 60seconds and as other commenters here are saying, that means 2 people at least that aren't at gens.
My secret weapon against it is just to instantly patrol gens after hooking someone. I don't stay around unless I spot a surv close by that's convenient to chase. If I don't, I go off to pressure gens. That way I'm wasting at least 3 people's time, the unhooked, the unhooker, and the person I chased off a gen. But I guess this is very foreign as a concept for many killers. Or maybe survs are so dead set on those Bps that they farm people off the hook in front of the killer.
Back in the days of basement bubba the whole community, even the lowest tier of players, knew sorta how to deal with it. You just slam gens. But this has been forgotten these days.
"Not progressing the game" if they're tanking hits for teammates you're not progressing the game either while 2 people are still on gens. Your next chase will be delayed preventing a pr/pop that could stop an important gen.
I like in these situations where "survivor is doing something shitty" it's pretty much always to mitigate something the killer is doing that's shitty, in this example proxy camping or going right back to hook. It's ok for killer cause he's trying to win, but it's not ok for survivors to try and win using bullshit.
Its situational. If the killer has no info on other survivors to exert pressure they'll probably go back to the hook because they have nothing else to do. The main reason I would say most killers proxy camp is because they can exert pressure on a wider area.
how delusional are you wat. i never ever tunnel when i play killer and the unhooked survivor still runs into my face 9/10 times simply because of their funny 2nd chance perks allow them to be obnoxious d1cks. you go out of your way to not tunnel, eat shit for it, and then survivors will still complain why you "tunneled them" after they ran into you on purpose and body blocked for someone else who wasnt even hooked yet while they themselves are on death hook. also just a friendly reminder that survivors are the toxic side. there are so many survivor-only players that outright refuse to ever play killer, therefore are garbo at the game yet still have the biggest ego and are massive crybabies. just like you, your comment is the biggest clichee survivor comment ever, you said that body blocking is the killers fault, 🤡 twitter user
From what ive seen the complaining isnt just basekit bt and DS. Its DS,OTR,Unbreakable, Dead hard. You smack the survivor they have OTR and just run forward to block you again. You down them. They have unbreakable. You pick them up. They have DS into a DH chase. Stacking second chances into basically a artillery to blast the killer with.
Hyper specific scenarios again, you will most likely never encounter this unless you just play their game of using all the anti-tunneling tools against you because you let them
Even if they force it OTR just needs one smack and it’s gone, when you down them just slug them if they use their unbreakable now they don’t have unbreakable for the rest of the game, they have Deadhard? if they use it once you now know they have it and Deadhard is very easy to bait and DS only lasts a minute that is not a long time so it should go away when you’re chasing someone else.
Literally just play smart the player trying their hardest to abuse 3 anti-tunnel perks will always waste their own time trying to get value out of it and once those perks are not in use their the easiest survivor to take down because they have no chase perk or anything to really help them.
@@SolidRazo The problem is when 4 people do it in a trial. This was literally the meta in 2020 and was called the small pp build for a reason. It'll get a lot more popular in the coming weeks.
@@DrIronbuddah so would this make the new one. The smaller pp build? Lol
@@SolidRazowhat are chase perks or good ones? I always thought dead hard was a chase perk but I guess not? Seems that’s the better route to go as survivor
@@infernoblast853 Same thing. We'll just see a portion of people switching back to the build.
It's also worth considering that deep wounds take 12 seconds to mend, so taking a hit to buy 2 seconds of distance for another survivor could potentially be a net negative for the survivors.
What about the people with off the record ds that run all the way across the map to take 2 hits for a team mate and then just unbreakable up after
they should just disable basekit endurance and DS when they took a protection hit
I've always found that DS abusers eating dirt is the most effective counter.
Been doing that since the "Second Chance" meta and had zero issues.
Stopped using DS cuz now it became boring again. What's a mediocre killer gonna do vs 4 DS's and syringes? I'm getting accostumed to 2ks in pubs now
same except i bleedout all 4 without ever hooking
[Laughs in bleed out mechanic]
I wish dredge had ranged attack
Thought it said Counter Strike Global Offensive for a split second
Scott, you are not correct about the hit fatigue.
The on-hit sprint boost für survivors is 6.6 m/s for 1.8 s. That's 4.7m extra distance.
The killer fatigue is 2.7 s at 0.46 m/s, although this massive slowdown is not for the entire duration. Nonetheless the killer loses the difference to his base running speed at 4.6 m/s. This is definitely more than the survivors spring boost causes. (about double)
If You not chasing the guy you hit its not a big difference
@@muysli.y1855
Did you even try to comprehend my calculation?
You just repeated a line from the video - what a useless comment.
@@maxmustermann3876 its nearly nonsense why you calculate both when you should just ignore the surv who sprint burst.
You compare both which normaly you shouldn't beside you switch target.
4.0 m/s compare to 0.46 m/s make more sense
@@muysli.y1855
Your English is so bad, one can't understand anything.
I guess you completely miss my point ... Scott said in the video, that the distance mostly is due to the sprint boost of the survivor and not the hit fatigue of the killer. I calculated both aspects individually and compared them. Conclusion: Scott is wrong
Your calculations are irrelevant because the correct play is to CHASE THE ONE THAT WASNT SPEED BOOSTED.
Talk about brainless..
conclusion: You suck at math.
Well if you lose collision for a few seconds survivors would just fun completely on top of the person they unhooked, and it would be completely RNG if the killer hits the right person. Can already see how that would play out
There is also currently an exploit to completely avoid DS; making the perk do nothing, however, I have reported this to behavior's email so it shouldn't be around for long.
No, I am not sharing.
Exploit patched soon?
Potential energy would like to talk to you.
BHVR is known for many things, but quickly fixing issues isn't one of them.
Keeping it hush so it isnt abused
Ummm how about people
Who take protection hits with anti tunnel perks loose the anti tunnel protection? That’s a thought
Honestly they should make people with OTR or DS active phase through killers so they CANT body block at all. that alone would fix this.
I was thinking about taking protection hits immediately removes your DS but they need to code protection hits properly
No what they going to do and most do this to me is use the speed boost you just have them to follow the unhooker and then body block you again this time in a jungle jam or at a pallet since they have DS and know you can't pick them up. Then you slug them but they are mostly likely going to have either unbreakable or plot twists and just pick themselves up again. I'm sorry but killer is always will be in a lose lose situation when it comes to offensive DS, there is no playing around it other than slugging or eating the DS.
Just hit the body blocker, make them mend and go for the other player. There are easy ways around this regardless.
funnily enough, pyramid head can kinda ignore DS unless the players avoid his trails, his addons might be garbage, but he can ignore this one specific strategy ;D
Yeah, I always smack them to get rid of their OTR/Dead Hard, etc.
4:13 wrong again, its 12 seconds of distance. 2.7 second attack cooldown, the survivor moves 10.8 meters away, the max range of killer lunge on a running survivor is 3.5 meters of distance with a 0.6 m/s gaining as you chase them = 12.16 seconds of distance.
Scott is usually wrong.
Honestly it's just save the best for last stacks for free
Step 1. Play Blight.
Step 2. Profit.
''really simple to do'' for bhvr is more like ''we're working on a solution but have nothing concrete to share as of now''
losing collision for 5 seconds would not prevent you from body blocking for the entire duration of DS
Killers would complain regardless of what survs do, so at the end of the day play as you want, they can cry me a river I couldn't care less
Forced penance once again my favorite perk
You wanna block? sure hope you didn't need that 2nd health state for 80+ seconds
it's a lot more punishing to not be able to eat a hit mend then heal back to full
"B-but Ds is only useful if ur being tunneled" a qoute from a survivor main before the ds buff💀
Can we set up a GoFundMe to get Scott a second hoodie?
How about a second one to get him a brain?
Let the slugfest begin ! :>
Your math seems wrong.
If the killer's fatigue takes 2 sec at which he doesn't move, then it takes about 13 sec to catch up this extra distance. Why? Surv runs 4 m/s for 2 sec, so he gains 8m. Normal killer moves at 4.6 m/s, so it takes him 13 s.
This isn't even the biggest gripe people have. It's when you are actively not tunneling, i.e. hook someone different, and still getting hit with an anti tunnel perk. I understand they are being useless in the meantime, but it doesn't change the fact that it's irritating when it happens. Anti tunnel perks should probably be changed to deactivate when someone else is hooked
sure that can be irritating but i never get annoyed because like you said, theyve been useless the entire time
And lastly, the solution to this whole problem is to completely rework DS, they shouldn't lock anti-tunnel behind a perk you have to spend money to acquire. It should be a basekit mechanic the game is balanced around.
"Aight go mend then"
Nah hitting someone and ignoring them afterwards require too much brain power
Any time survivors get defensive tools, they will ALWAYS use it offensively.
It's just proven at this point.
I'm not against DS being used offensively, but I will absolutely, 100% of the time run someone down if they use their unhook endurance to get a protection hit. I will NEVER chase you off of hook otherwise. Use your offhook endurance that was created to let you run away from the killer for free to RUN AWAY.
The reason I'm cool with DS is that it took a perk slot, and you had to plan for it to be used. Taking a protection hit through unga tactics with basekit grace period stuff will only get you killed faster by me.
Or just play Original Pain Pinhead and down them 2 seconds after getting unhoked, then spit on their body and chase the unhooker.