This Needs To Stop
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- Опубликовано: 6 апр 2023
- Another day another unfortunate doping scandal.
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Plot Twist: Her performace increases were attributed to finding David Goggins videos on youtube.
JAJAJAJAJAJA ❕ ‼️ ⚠️. omfGAWD
I’ve seen 4% gains when recommended to my clients.
Oh, no! Will David Goggins be listed as a PED!? 😆
😂
THEY DONT KNOW ME SON
I ran D1 Track, unfortunately, cheating is rampant. I was truly sad to find out a lot of runners I respected were doping. It’s hard to really respect the sport when you have seen the darker side.
How is doping any different than biological men posing as woman to compete against actual women?
No point in the whole thing if most dope.
The darker side seems to be getting much darker
@@victoriapendleton4099 what
Most people I share this with tell me I’m crazy. But I have talked to many D1 and olympic athletes, they all tell me the same thing. When governments are involved or when there is a lot of money on the line, life finds a way.
Not just individual athletes, but entire Countries are willing to cheat.
👀. Can you name the ones you have in mind there Billy?
Historically eastern bloc, lately Russia and China.
There are about three "female" athletes from African countries, that are either taking T, or have conditions like internal testes.
@@henrihelvetica5835 Russia for one.. that is why they can't play under the Russian flag.
I cheated on a college test once.
@@16nowhereman That's nothing...I tore the tag off of a pillow once.
Good coverage, TRP. Sad . . You know, many top athletes are under insane pressure. Some entire countries put so much pressure on their top athletes this sort of things happens . . But I love the method you described for this 'ranges' over time approach. It sounds like a step forward for the testers.
It's not and it will only effect the small countries or poorer countries. It's all really pointless and the real question is how much are they letting go through and how much do they really know... my guess, they know most everything but pick and choose to keep the integrity looking good. They should just let them do their thing but put limits on the use. It would level the playing field and make it safer for everyone.
No idea why people just blame pressure. Top athletes want to have advantages so they dope. Many people dope just to be decent local runners. It's absurdly common
No excuses
@@atatterson6992 in some cases, it is. If I remember correctly a chinese sprinter got in trouble for losing. Some countries are so corrupted, they will come for them if they lose.
I'm curious what the actual evidence consisted of. The fact is that diagnostic tests (i.e. any rule/model that inputs 'some data' and outputs a Yes/No) are never perfect. There will always be false positives, and false negatives, along with making mostly (hopefully) correct assessments. Suppose her testing pattern would occur 1/1000 times by chance if the athlete was not cheating. Would that be enough? How many thousands of athletes do they test? What is the threshold for declaring 'this must be cheating'? I have no idea, just thinking out loud.
I was thinking the same thing. I hope none of these athletes are being banned from faulty test results
These tests aren't just based on athletes. They're off of the typical readings for pretty much everyone in society.
Was thinking the same. Whereas I like the idea of cheaters getting caught, I'm not so clear that cheating was involved here.
@@BrendonSchaferCT the allowances already give a ton of leeway for natural anomalies
thats why every single urine test get separated to two vials, the second vial is only tested if the first one is found to contain illegal substances. so they definitely double check
Funny how it's always the 'foreign' athletes. More like the US athletes are just better at getting away with it! like FloJo once did!!
Once??????
Cheating is rampant in politics, car dealership, Real estate..all facets of life, heck even in the Church.
Do you expect runners to be pure choir boys?
It will never end. There will always be cheaters, and they will always catch *SOME* of them .
Any activity with a worthwhile reward will attract cheating.
They catch all of them. They choose who they punish.
@@marzmarch They do not catch them all. The more funds and resources you have the less likely you are to get caught in the short term. But I also believe that there must be some that have been caught but were not punished.
@@patricksweeney5308 What you mean? Lewis tested positive for pseudoephedrine, ephedrine, and phenylpropanolamine in 1988.
Which are all diuretics, now the concentration found was illegal at the time but I believe wouldn't be sufficient nowadays to confirm a positive.
Although diuretics are extremely common use of speeding up the process of your body removing anything in you system that could be tested through your urine.
Also theres an entire world of steroids that wont make you put on a very much muscle. Just by looking at someone you can often tell if they are enhanced past a certain point. Just like Ben Johnson was un-natural with that amount of muscle mass.
There are many ways to enhance yourself also, blood doping, peptides and more.
@@patricksweeney5308 Carl Lewis DID CHEAT. He as well as Florence Griffith-Joyner were called out by teammate Darrell Robinson who claimed HE SAW Carl getting injected with a milky substance. Robinson’s allegations IMMEDIATELY ended his career. However his 400m high school record of 44.69 still stands today
Honestly this makes me feel like there is a question mark in my head now about every top level runner and record, I wish there was a way to know for sure whose cheating and who isnt without doubt
They all are. Sports where the performance is based almost entirely on speed and strength, the advantage is more significant
The clean athletes will have been run out in the quarters or semifinals or may not have been selected. I agree with what you’re saying. Look for the athletes with average height who wipe the floor with everybody, who never lose, or peak every Olympic Games. I could name names.
take a look at every time in the men's 100m including the banned ones, if i recall correctly everyone except for Bolt's times were from athlets who were then banned. then make your assumptions. I don't think that everyone is doping, but certainly a lot of people are. It's not too hard to not get caught if you have good enough doctors and money behind you.
@@weswright3187 "I could name names" Based on what - your psychic abilities?
@@ClaytonTownley Yes Clayton. Absolutely. 😗.
The cheating in academics, with AI and that kind of stuff, is out of control now too.
It's the risk/reward ratio. When the reward is so high and the risk is little, of course there are those that will cheat.
There is risk. People have died from strokes/hear attacks etc from thick epo blood.
@@Andrew-qo4cq There is risk to everything, but when millions are at stake, that blinds people to the risks. And like I said, compared to the reward, the risk is still small. And I meant the risk of getting caught, never mind the side effects of PEDs.
@@stevespyder agree
It’s not a matter of cheating, it’s a matter of if you get caught
Ding ding ding .. they're all cheating as.the kids would say or the squares but I'd say they all have passion and dedication.
Exactly. Rewards are too big, there is tons of pressure to perform, and very little time to recover from very long and painful training sessions. So yeah, most elite athletes do it
It's weak
Exactly
True, but they still have to do this, or it would reach crazy levels. Can you imagine the reputation of the sport if people could just openly go nuts? It would become 100% about the drugs and the athletes would be secondary.
I think there will, unfortunately, always be cheaters. It's good to see that there are new and innovative ways to catch them though. I appreciate that TRP covers everything though, the good and the bad.
I think it's intrinsic to sports in general, it comes with the territory. Figure that high performance athletes have a lifetime of tremendous economic sunk costs. How do you justify that when you are just off the podium in 4th place? It's not a good value proposition economic or even social.
What I fear is that that these methods of detection may falsely penalize a small number of honest but exceptional individuals…I’m not saying that the methods fail in many cases but I do think that, as with death penalties, the system is not perfect and there will over time be some falsely accused, reflecting the technical difficulty of the task.
How so? The biological markers could even possibly show that these individuals base levels are already very high/off the scale.
If anything this would be a good thing for them. Has happened to some athletes who had level of red blood cell count "off the scale", high testosterone levels (naturally. Happened to a Norwegian speedskater, Geir Karlstad, of all things. This will be noted as a natural base level for them (they are allowed to have the higher, off the scale levels!
The doping testing itself (which is not about the biological markers) have both an A and a B test separately to guard against "false positives"...
These procedures and tests aren't a disadvantage to the gifted individual in any way. They are a benefit for them more than anything!
Thanks for the reassurance@@Magnus_Loov I wasn't aware of the natural base level exemptions e.g. for RBC count or testosterone, or the Geir Karlstad case. My sense is that testing for substances that are not found naturally is pretty much black or white. But even for what you call biomarkers (assaying something that occurs naturally) the biologist in me says it's going to be difficult if not impossible to define valid, water-tight 'cut-off' levels. I'm thinking (for example) of rare cases of people who have high blood alcohol due to yeast fermentations in their gut, constantly over the limit...it seems to me that the regulators have a tough/impossible job.
I told my son to enjoy high school track because after that it's 50/50 if the people he is competing with are clean. Just didn't want him to be disappointed.
Exactly I ran track on the collegiate level and some professional level and yes not all athletes are clean it's so sad but it happens in all sports unfortunately.
People are cheating at the high school level too unfortunately. Scholarships and acceptance at a top school can change someone's life. Some people are just born willing to do whatever it takes to win, including cheating.
I see plenty of kids in HS who are doping as well
@@NerdLifts true because testing is not as rigorous so there is plenty of room to cheat same on the collegiate level. They only test you after you win at the NCAA Championship and your school may only test you once a year. Maybe if WADA gets involved in collegiate sports maybe things would change a little bit we all know people will find work arounds or loop holes to cheat
@@spearshome0329 definitely facts. I ran against a girl in high school who ran high 53 in the 400m and low 24 in the 200. The next following year she was running 50 seconds in the 400m and 22 seconds in the 200m. When I ran pro, this situation in particular made me open my eyes. I can say her name because she indeed failed a drug test at the 2012 Olympic trials for steroids. Her name is Debbie Dunn. She was running like mid 52's in the 400m. Then she eventually started running low 50 and ran 49.9. I saw her run 800m indoor at UNC and she ran like 2:06 at this point I'm like wow I'm really getting outworked I need to run some 800s but the whole time she was on steroids.
Great video TRP! So sad what is happening.
I'm sorry to hear this. It's getting to be as bad or worse than bicycling.
When Lance Armstrong admitted to doping his entire career, the federation that governs tour cycling decided to re-categorize the tours-de-France he won. From 2005, they referenced the list of competitors and tested their urine samples in finishing order, only to discover the top 19 athletes were dirty.
This isn’t yet as bad as cycling.
Honestly Cycling for all it’s bad rep has way better testing and more stringent testing than any other sport at this moment in time
Not as bad.. The amount of cycling athletes who were doping during the Lance Armstrong era was just insane.. it wasn't like a few individuals but rather teams and so many were involved from athletes, trainers and other team members..
News flash, athletics is and has been worse than cycling and all
Others sports for that matter since the beginning of drugs testing. It’s always been bad in athletics.
@@Aboukay80 Of course only 1 or 2 track stars are doping. It's 2023 and we're still this naive?
I don't get it, she's been suspended because her red blood cell count dropped below the acceptable threshold? And that it would imply it was maintained artificially higher for some time? To me, this looks like something that could be contested by Jeruto, anemia can occur naturally, especially during the winter months, I feel like more explanations are needed to settle this case
When you receive blood, even your own blood, it leaves markers that can be detected over time, though the science is imprecise. It's not just that her blood count went down, other markers are indicated as well.
This is likely the result of doping with her own blood.
Personally, I could not care less if someone dopes with their own blood. Yes, it will give them an advantage, but it's relatively safe and open for anyone. After all, it's their own blood.
That said, that is not allowed by the rules, and everyone agrees to play by those rules, but many, if not most, do not.
If we knew the full truth, we would have few heroes.
Very few indeed
@@thobelandlebe4634 Phil Taylor was the natty GOAT. Most dominant champion of the past 70 years to be juice free.
Better for a thousand innocent people to be locked up than one guilty person go free.
No it’s not. Get better testing.
@@shimmerine1 Pam, are you listening? In addition to testing shimmerine1's urine, I would also like to test shimmerine1's blood and hair.
Cheating will always exist, just like other crimes. All that can be done is to keep working to catch these people 😢
I guess it's much easier to put your reputation on the line if you believe everyone else is cheating.
Agreed. It doesn't help if a whole lot of people make the assumption in public forums. Sharing such a cynical view of sport just encourages PED use for the reason you state.
It almost becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you're going to cheat because "everyone's cheating", well, now you'd just made sure there's at least cheater for them to find.
Of course
Volker Pispers, an epic german comedian put it best: "Of course they dope. They all do. Nobody wants to watch achievable athletic performance. Stop the banning and just make them print on the trikot what they took. So we know which one works."
Unfortunately, in high level athletics, the competition is often at the edges of the rules…
“How do you beat a man on drugs if you’re not on drugs?”
with a baseball bat
Uber??
After TRP's recent video on the travails of Peter Bol, I wonder how often the tests are conducted improperly, and what recourse an athlete has against people determined to save face when they make a mistake. Bol was lucky in that he felt empowered to fight back; a poor Kenyan in a poor sponsor country might simply give up if incorrectly accused. I know that doping is a big problem and a possibility for any athlete, that's why they're tested, but everything depends on the quality and integrity of the lab, and on the science of the test.
absolutely, they talk like the testers are infallable
Wait... So her values where not the same in winter, as in summer?... ... But that metric would vary widely from person to person. I'm completely shredded in the summer, because the sun arrives, the D-vitamin is higher, the testosterone is higher, and the training is more intense... Black people obviously handle seasons and climate differently than say, an Asian person. ... So how is that metric defined, and how far are the outliers from the limit?
No American has ever been caught cheating?😂😂
They need the cycling doctors , never get caught , come on they're all doing it
Not just cycling doctors. Pep Guardiola got popped twice for nandrolone, blamed the club doctor for giving him something tainted, then recruited the same doctor when he was a coach.....
And then came the so called "trans" athletes in women competition.................
I dated a Jamaican lady that ran for usa.. she said the doctors are always one step ahead. I asked her if she had ever cheated... yes and she said most do.. she was 4 ft 11 and ran 11 4 in the 100m nationals.. I was shocked. But I do believe this new testing they do if it's done often will limit the cheaters.. amazing story
Nate Diaz is right. Everyone is on gear.
Time to do a mass testing.
Did you do a video on Lance Armstrong or Roger clements Mark Mcguire
.........
We should all thank WADA for not testing during the last couple years, it has yielded some of the fastest times in history in many events and endurance sports. Until there's a literal ZERO TOLERANCE for anything found in a drug test, sport is dirty. ZERO meaning nothing, no aspirin for a headache, no caffeine above x mg, or just make it zero as well, no allergy meds, no inhalers, nothing. If you want to be a professional endurance athlete, you compete clean, and if you have "asthma", you don't get to grow up and be a professional athlete and win races. I quote asthma there because there's an awful lot of world class athletes on inhalers before races. There's an awful lot of cyclists with "saddle sores" that get TUE's for steroid creams so they can compete. They're masking drugs. So, problem solved, ZERO TOLERANCE. Wanna keep it interesting? Have a drugged division, go nuts, take whatever you want.
Asthma's also a thing because exercise, especially swimming, is a popular treatment for childhood asthma. So a disproportionate number of young athletes have asthma, which in turn means a disproportionate number of elite athletes have asthma.
Also there's a very clear-cut test for asthma - I know because I took the test, and found to my surprise that I actually don't have asthma. Comparative lung function test, with and without inhaler - the individual tests tell you a lot about lung health in general, but the comparison gives clear yes/no for asthma.
(for the record: no I'm not a competitive athlete at all)
How about gymnasts with "ADHD" getting an exemption so that they can take Adderall/Ritalin (Simone Biles *cough)
@@dirkjackson8939 exactly. All of the shenanigans don't get a chance in the zero tolerance sporting world.
@@dirkjackson8939 Ritalin is a highly effective treatment for many of the people who have ADHD. It doesn't do anything much to people who don't have ADHD. It certainly doesn't grant gymnastic superpowers.
@@10ktube zero-tolerance would exclude everyone who relies on any sort of medication in their daily life. Like for instance I take antihistamines for my hay fever - that would definitely rule me out, since antihistamines also affect muscle recovery in a way that might be exploitable in some circumstances.
Similarly, zero-tolerance would largely prevent competitive athletes from receiving medical treatment of any kind when they need it. Partly because you seem to be talking about a blanket ban on absolutely all drugs anyway, but also because most therapeutic drugs have effects and/or side effects which could possibly aid athletic performance in healthy people.
Hell, zero-tolerance would even have to cover caffeine and alcohol. Caffeine is an established and regulated performance-enhancing drug (alongside its ubiquity among the population), and alcohol has several known side effects that could offer a competitive advantage in some sports
The more someone cheats it creates at time an advantage to said person to cheat more to take some sort of better times in or at a running distance faster and farther as Rosie in the Marathon event when cheating and she doesn’t know what alternative training even is.
WTF is "alternative training" though ? 🤨
@@maloxi1472 Rosie Ruiz mentioned it after winning the Boston marathon in 1980
@@Comeoffitman I thought you knew what it was
It’s like varying speed in blocks and times. I’m not a runner because of my memory loss since the accident but it’s definitely something along the lines. Rosie Ruiz was the founder of the style she would be the one to ask but she died last year
Sorry if I can’t answer your question this morning
Rosie Ruiz didn't win because of doping. She took the train into Boston from the suburbs.
I have talked to runners. They tell me everyone is doping. It’s anecdotal but means something. Even a doctor I worked with quit working for the Olympics due to doping corruption.
I spoke with a World Cup swimmer - they said everyone who wasn’t placing, were doping in the change rooms. Because they weren’t going to be tested, but finishing 10th was worth more money than 15th so it was worth doping.
My assumption is that those who were placing, I.e. higher profile athletes had timed their doping, because they’d be tested after the race
They are doping, all of them. It's not even a question especially once they get past 25 years old maybe 27/28 at the very latest. The Jamaicans are doping without a doubt. The odds that a country that has a population of 2.4 million, produces 6 or 7 of the greatest sprinters in the last 20 some years is next to zero. People are going to say genetics then I'd say western Africa should have at least double the talent then and America north and south should also be putting out near like quality but they just aren't at no where near the same rate. Those women are getting FASTER in their 30s and one had a kid. No, to the naw, to the hell naw. I see nothing wrong with it at all. It's their risk, it's their lives, I even don't mind paying taxes for them to train. People always say it's FloJo who was the only one because of her times but it was also her style. She was the most graceful runner I've ever seen. It was like her feet weren't even hitting the track.... anyways all you have to do is look at Marion Jones and Lance Armstrong. They didn't get caught until well after they were done. Usain Bolt had one of the worst running forms of any top 25 all time sprinter. He had head movement, he rocks his upper body. Caster Semyana was also a terrible runner but somehow she was able to blow everyone away no matter what the others did.
@Inediblehulk there are a lot of things you can take without testing positive... little need to time use
@@chuckdeuces911 a lot of teens are doping.. it's a huge problem that's not only for pros.
That said, FloJo was most definitely on the sauce too, even though her world record 100 was not remotely wind legal. Her legit times certainly didn't come from "grace"
BS. Not everyone dopes. Stupid post
All top athletes are on it , we all know this
2 percent get busted!
Where’s Salazar?💉💉💉💉
Go team burrito!🌯🌯🌯🌯💉💉💉💉
I knew it!! Way too big of an improvement.
lock downs gave everyone the opportunity to do whatever they wanted, basically unchecked for a couple of years. that's a big part of why there are so many top 10 all-time marks being recorded right now.
imo virtually everyone is doing something that is gray/prohibited. the people who get caught are the ones who push a little too hard or their body doesn't react the way they expect it to.
Bill Burr "My guy on steroids vs your guy on steroids"
This year and last year have been crazy. It's either drugs, new tracks/shoes or everyone just happened to get way better all at the same time... Which would you pick?
You keep using Ben Johnson as an example. Everyone in that race tested positive during their career except Calvin Smith. Carl Lewis tested positive for pseudoephedrine on three separate occasions around and during the US trials and should not have gone to the Seoul Olympics.
IT NEVER ENDS!!! cheers
Maybe she just "identifies" as having an honest blood profile. Lookin at you "Lia" Thomas.
It increasingly feels as though that athletics is on the brink of a meltdown with the growing number of positive tests that seem to be happening. While some might argue that the cheats are being found out, with more fails on a regular basis it casts a big shadow over every competing athlete, especially when these cases are so retrospective, having to re-evaluate the previous season given that athlete x wasn’t playing on a level field. I do wonder if all of these athletes are acting independently or if there’s a few central figures that need exposing and putting behind bars 🤔
The answer is that all elite sport is corrupt all the way through. Anyone who doesn't think so is naive or thick.
And allowing TG men to compete with Women comes into this category!
So she is suspended but did they strike her “records”
The madness will stop when money is removed from the equation. There is no advantage in cheating if there is no $$$ opportunity
Everyone uses performance enhancing substances, period. So why not just make them legal. Everyone is doing it anyway
One has to ask, while seeing numerous other "athletes" finishing just within reach of Jerudo, how they were able to finish "almost" in first place, as well? It looks like the entire lead peloton needs to be tested. How else can one account for so many "fast" runners at the front of the field.
they are all tested
@@mikefun7482 They need two divisions in sports today, the steroid division and the non-drugged up division. Then the "women" could compete against the "guys." It would be a freak show. Oh wait. It already is a freak show.
@@bluenetmarketing that makes no sense but go off
Ooh, you're talking about the Ethiopian Dude in the race? _ Getachew???
One persons abilities on drugs can be just as good or even worse as another’s abilities without drugs. They are all tested.
You just have to assume that most/all athletes at the very elite levels of competition are doping.
Just one piece of advice kobzster09, NEVER, NEVER, and I mean NEVER!!!! 'assume ' anything, no matter what it is. Hell, you can't even assume your dead ass is going to see the light of day tomorrow, or if you are going to make it home tonight. Just stay in the lane and deal with it. (facts, facts ).
A DNA/Chromosome test should be administered before allowing an athlete to compete. Men competing against women is cheating, regardless of the social issues and politics.
its amazing how no famous Americans were mentioned where it has been systemic... i have watched athletics for over 30 years and the most people who got caught for doping was American athletes, AFTER they win major medals, not caught in there own nation. and a few years later they are allowed back, unlike uk where its a lifetime Olympic ban.
3:34. A US sprinter once claimed his failed drug test has to do with passionately kissing his girlfriend. Weirdest excuse of all time but it got him off the hook. smh.
Eh, it happened in tennis, too. Richard Gasquet said he got popped for cocaine because he kissed some lady named Pamela, and the Tennis Federation was like, "That checks out." and let him play.
The problem is that the governing sporting authorities pick and choose the athletes they are going to use as examples in an attempt to make them look as if they are actually holding cheating athletes accountable and give a false facade of being a clean sport. As I have addressed about this issue on your previous videos about cheating in sport. There is not a sport where the top 10 (top 50 in some sports i.e. power lifting) where every athlete is using some form of illegal performance enhancing. From blood doping, steroids, HGH, Amphetamines..it's all being done by them all. Most of them get caught at one time or another but the sport, due to financial and political pressures, only select a few athletes to expose. One only need look at the worst example, which is a video clip you showed, of the Ben Johnson farce. it was later revealed that the top 5 athletes in the 1988 Seoul Olympics 100m final were doping. Yet, they only exposed and banned Johnson. The same goes for Lance Armstrong in cycling, Barry Bonds in baseball, etcc...etc...It really is all a farce. IMHO they just need to admit they all cheat and let them go for it. Let's see how far they can take it. Bodybuilding now openly admits they are on steroids and no one gives a crap.
Yeah, it’s naive. Everyone is in a collective fantasy world, essentially believing‘Santa is real’. It’s a silly farce to go through this pantomime of drug tests and then throwing a few athletes under the bus for the sake of feigning integrity
You're right... Boxing's fight of the Century was a drug fest... The media singled out Mayweather for the IV use but hid the fact that USADA allowed Manny Pacquiao to use WADA banned Betamethasone as part of the Therapeutic Use Exemption
I'd much rather see what people are capable of clean. There are Olympians that are clean. But are they only scratching the top 50? Also, if you just let everyone dope, the winners will be the people willing to risk not waking up the next day to win. There's a huge difference from the doping we have with drug testing, to the doping we'd have if we just allowed it.
@@veganpotterthevegan I share you dream. Yet, unfortunately, we have to live in the real world not the dream world. If you want to watch clean, natural, athletes then watch old films of pre 1950 sports or current 12 year olds and under. Otherwise, what you are watching are chemically enhanced athletes...period.
@blueeyedbull67 not at all. I'm a retired pro cyclist. Never took a thing besides caffeine in my coffee. I never got to the very highest level but there are a few up there. Maybe I would have been too if I didn't start riding when I was 21 after being a 320lb shot putter
Cheating is in human psychology. To win & prove superiority leads to create any circumstances to human. There are many low tolerance on success of others. They work on loop holes to make the successful a failure
According to those tests, I’m doping.
She is representing Kazakhstan, maybe you should mention that.
Also I wonder if there are any US athletes currently undergoing this testing or is it only for certain other countries?
Everyone does
they do, they have had several cases of dopping, and the recent cases were shacarri and coleman.
Make a video about it
The testing described here is not for a specific prohibited chemical, but for normal physiological chemicals and whether they are going up or down in strange patterns that could indicate use of PEDs. Example is the body's ability to transport oxygen (the "hemocrit levels" mentioned in the video) and if its going up or down in unexpected patterns over time by means such as getting a red cell blood transfusion or some chemical they took that increased their red blood cell count. Do this testing multiple times over a long period of time and you can see patterns specific to each athlete and their training (or lack of).
African countries seem to get different treatment.
This is getting ridiculous
Yes, but don't you just love reading what the "experts" post?
Where can you get these substances from? Asking for a friend
So much pressure 😫... & there'll always be cheaters. Glad they get caught.
The damage and harm done to those also rans who would have otherwise won, silvered, and bronzed is irreparable. What a shame!
I am very skeptical that those that missed the podium were clean.
None of them are actually clean though, even those we consider greats such as Kipchoge and Bekele, it is just a matter of 'if and when you get caught'
I used Just For Men today, so I’ll look and feel younger when I try to re-enter NCAA track competition. I was top performer in the 800 m in the 80s. Let’s see if I can pull this off without getting caught!
So easy really easy to get away with drugs , and how often must you use to get faster , for how long does the effect Las?
These studies seem strange to me. Why are no drugs mentioned? Is the fact that she is biologically female factored in? How accurate are these tests? Why was she tested so often? Who determines the range of time over which the tests take place? I am no doctor or science person but there are too many missing links and too many questions here. I cry foul on this report.
HG doesn’t get it, but I’m an eighties guy too still thinking he’s got it … somewhere
stretch those calves! hopefully enough left on top to apply a good dose....
Ah shit, here we go again
This method is very sketchy. I can only imagine the reaction the fist time an American Gold Medal athlete is suspended, despite the lack of evidence of any banned substance. That will end up in the courts, no question about it.
“Bend the rules”
Shows DNA
Anyone who is running that fast over these distances is already a freak of nature. The top tier people naturally have weird blood chemistry and different things going on in their bodies from people that are just regular Joes. How do you tell what is caused by performance enhancing drugs and what is caused because these people are genetically exceptional ??
You tell by the drugs in their blood
That's kinda the point of the passport idea, instead of a static test. Like sure an elite athlete might naturally have really high levels of some blood marker to start with, but if that marker drastically increases then that's much more meaningful.
I really didn't understand the test. It sounds like it's based on statistics and I'm not sure how reliable I think that is. I mean, they have expected results for each of the parameters they're testing for but they're 💯 sure that all humans will perform within their expected range especially considering how such parameters can vary based on things like diet, environment etc?
I'd not be surprised if in future such a test was called out for being faulty and giving wrong results.
Luckily us men can always join women's running because testicles don't count as doping lol.
Thoughtful reporting. The first question that comes to my mind is, what is the sensitivity and specificity of these particular tests, which relates directly to true and false positivity, and, of course, true and false negativity. If we know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that any athlete is guilty, I think they should be banned from the sport for 3-5 years. At this level of competition and in these events, that would essentially be a career ended.
you wouldn't have an NBA or NFL with testing as stringent as that which track athletes undergo. You want the same standards for those professional sports? I mean, that would be fair, and I assume that's what we are getting at here.
It would be nice if this story could tell us what form of doping was allegedly used or if they have even proved the use of a substance or blood doping. End of 11th grade track (where I had been getting slower instead of faster for all the hard work I put in, about 60 miles per week) I finally went to the Doctor and found out I was severely anemic. After getting my red blood cell count up to normal I went from running the 2 mile in 12:15 down to 10:15 my senior year. If I had gone from 10:15 down to 8:45 (let alone 8:15) what would people have thought I was doing ? No increase in mileage or effort. 1974 right in the heart of the East German doping. I'm not saying doping isn't a problem but how many innocents are being falsely punished as well. What's the saying, "better to let a hundred guilty people go than punish one innocent ?"
That gets kinda tricky, because performance-enhancing drugs often are also completely legitimate medical treatments. I don't know what your doctor prescribed for your anemia, but there's a pretty good chance that it was a prohibited substance (though you could probably then get an exception for legitimate medical need). Likewise the routine prescription of testosterone for middle-aged men, where for competitive athletes that's a banned substance.
I agree with you. Some say there is a lot of cheating and I say there is a lot jealousy. As a High school athlete in a 400 meter race I beat one of the popular students and almost nipped another. I was second. 3 days later I was told the race had to be retaken. Why? still a mystery to me almost 70 years later. Cheating is as old as mankind but jealousy is even older.
wait wait wait, nobody and i mean nobody is getting a doping ban because of their performance. You get banned if they find something in a test, that's all, the biological passport is just a way to look back at what your values used to be in previous tests and if now they are wildly different it means that you took something in the meantime (this is a bit oversimplified but that's the jest of it)
@@patheddles4004 Totally agree. it's the same for me with a different issue. As a child I had growth hormone deficiency and even then I was still pretty good at sports and beat 90% of the other kids in almost every sport there is despite lacking a substance absolutely needed to perform well. I started treatment and had to inject growth hormone for as long as I was growing (luckily it worked really well and I grew up to be 5'8 which is even a little above average for women) and with that, my performance in sports which was already pretty good prior to taking it skyrocketed and I was almost unbeatable. It was prescribed by doctors and endocrinologists and they monitored my growth hormone levels every 3 months to make sure it was always at a normal level other kids my age should naturally produce. I wasn't at an advantage due to that, I was having the same growth hormone levels other people my age had. I just had to manually inject it because my body didn't produce enough of it. Were I to compete at the Olympics I'd for sure be banned because I'd be taking illegal substances, because yes, it is an illegal substance which many people use to enhance their performance, but then again I'm only doing it to be at the same level as others. It wouldn't give me an advantage, rather having the same chances as everybody else by having a normal level for my age.
That's kind of a really big issue to be honest.
So a world champion (by definition a not normal person) is being punished for results that are outside of the normal distribution??? How does that make any sense?
They are testing for variations in these factors, not the results themselves. The argument is that her hemoglobin stats varied too much for the training to be natural, not that they shouldn't be elevated against the normal population.
The result was outside of her own normal distribution, that's the whole point of the biological history. They're comparing her results to her past history, not just some random person
Are you "just asking questions" or do you really want to know? Because if you really want to know, you should read about ABP methodology instead of asking random youtube commenters
It's no wonder that you never see a trans man as an at-large competitor in mens events. If that were the case then the current wave of otherwise athletes would not be an issue.
Could it be considered permitable cheating?
That type of test makes no sense. It doesn't specify what illegal drugs are in your system. It just s8mply concludes there's a good probability you're doping. And you get suspended and stripped of your medals for that! It doesn't take into account that it still can't prove you did anything illegal and that some drugs are legal if they are not banned.
Do they really want to open that Pandora's box of definitively seeing who's cheating or not? The answer may be very scary.
Yeah, it'd be pretty sad to find out pretty much all the champions from the last two decades were cheating. Although I wouldn't be surprised. I suspect it's far more prevalent than most would be happy believing.
It would be sad to find out that most or all of the phenomenal young talents changing what young runners can accomplish are on drugs. It would be hard to place a future with many current young standouts regarded as cheaters.
The answer would be just like you would think IMO. It is like an arms race - the anti-doping "police" are chasing ever improving dopers and they are 1 step ahead.
I’d be more surprised if anyone was natural.
Precisely! ..When u have such large rewards(literally Gold) available,the kind which will change the course of the life,it's hardly a surprise!
@@jerryoshea3116 It’s a matter of how well they hide it. There are countless ways to do this like skipping tests, using masking agents, etc…
Nobody is natural. Little kids are on EPO. All of your favourite athletes use steroids, EPO and other stuff if works
@@HkFinn83 Yup
In 388 B.C., during the 98th Olympics, a boxer named Eupolus of Thessaly bribed three of his opponents to let him win.
Wow! Sounds just like a dark future.
You don't even need to cheat to be called a cheater. That testing is so wrong.
I find it hilarious that you use Ben Johnson as the video representing athletes using steroids when eight of the finalists in that race all tested positive eventually from that race
That's not true. Calvin Smith, the bronze medalist, never tested positive for anything his entire career. Nor did Robson de Silva, who finished 6th. (7th, if you count Ben Johnson as 1st.) Additionally, Carl Lewis's positive test was for 6ppm of ephedrine, which would be a negative test by today's standards.
@@imightbebiased9311 Also Ray Stewart never tested positive. He did end up with a life-time ban in 2010, for having provided PEDs for athletes he was coaching.
Still waiting on the Christian Coleman video
he is clean as a whistle
@@pigu8734 lol. Clean as a dirty diaper
Wow, Kenya had at least 7 names on that list!
Just let them all use it, problem solved.
It’s comical at this point. Kenya needs to banned. From now on, all the performances out of that country should be viewed with skepticism. IAAF’s lack of action on this matter is hurting the sport.
Go cry baby.Kenya we will dominate athletics this year again cleanly 😅
She's representing Kazakhstan so should they be banned instead? Also this passport violation is speculation so....
Boo boo cry
She is from Kazakhstan not Kenya
I think this is a prime example of how a passport system, sport wide, would improve the scene. Not just random, and top finishers.
But it does seem to highlight what I said about the Olympics being super sketch lately. The honest question in my mind is this: How far up the chain of organization does this go? Who benefits from those, ah ha moments more than brands and organizers? And they seem to fly like crazy at the Olympics... And drop off after just as quickly.
A passport system isn't a "magic bullet" solution. All you need do is look at professional cycling. There was a huge scandal there 2 years ago because the athletes and teams were using the anti-doping and passport information to manage their doping programs. The were doing things like micro-dosing EPO during training to get those measured levels up to, but not over the "normals". Having access to the info, they could manage the athletes measured levels so there were no sharp swings, peaks or valleys. They literally used the anti-doping system, to dope. The UCI and WADA had to restrict access to the rider information because of that. I'd guess, those tests are still happening but being managed by the teams medical staffs. Probably much easier to do in pro cycling because of the team nature there, but this technology is readily available to the athletes so I see no reason why they couldn't be managing these things while doping to enhance performance.
@@somewhat.random Valid point, but I never implied it was a magic bullet. I guess we just need to ban winning.
People do long tapers for the Olympics, not just for a yearly peak for world championships. They'd do this with or without doping.
@@somewhat.random It's really a bit of a catch 22 - I think it's bad to not publish the results of the tests and what exactly they are looking for in the passports, because that is making the testing an untrustworthy blackbox that is hard to explain to the public. At the same time, if you publish it, they can use that information to aid their doping as you describe.
So many runners are using PEDs yet not setting records. Training is better, diets are better yet FloJo has a record that still stands and she never failed a drug test. Maybe some athletes are simply better than everyone else. I’m 55 and I loved FloJo. My favorite female athlete, ever.
Flo Jo, while a great athlete, was most definitely doping. EVERYONE was doping in the 80s. Get real. Carl Lewis too... All of the greats were doping.
@@jakovbrizic Never failed one. And if all the greats were doping, as you say, wouldn’t the field still be level. I mean, if all the greats were doing it. Especially from countries that had State sponsored doping, wouldn’t some female have been able to take FloJo’s records down? Besides Ben Johnson which top sprinters went down with a positive test? I’m sure most were using something, but none were testing positive. Besides, most sprint marks have fallen except for the women’s 100 & 200 meter marks. FloJo’s marks still stand even amid an age of the “bigger, stronger, faster” athlete. No one has touched FloJo. Just like Javier Sotomayor’s high jump mark of 2.45 meters (8.046 ft) set in 1993, some marks were set by individuals without rival. To think FloJo couldn’t be the greatest in any other era is a bit myopic. Especially if you say all the other greats were doing the same thing. Something set FloJo apart from all others. Why were there no women setting records in close to forty years, since FloJo? There’s video comparing FloJo’s sprint form, including lower and upper body, on RUclips that can help explain some of that for you. Carl Lewis was hated by athletes and athletic clubs and countries around the world. Why would Carl Lewis not pop positive? Even if he was dirty, Lewis’ times are no longer in the conversation. Hate on FloJo all you want, her records still stand. Even dirty sprinters haven’t touched her times.
Need to split the competitions between truely ‘clean’ and dopers.
Other than weightlifting, cycling and T&F are far and away the most historically dirty sports bar none.
I loved watching Lance do his thing back when he was on top
of the world, but after 3 Tour wins I knew something was up, and was eventually proven right.
It’s next to impossible to dominate a sport like cycling or track for a decade + and be clean. Kenya’s testing is as bad as it gets (outside of Russia…) As a life long track junkie it hurts to even suggest it, but given Kenya’s recent abysmal testing record Kipchoge’s career accomplishments should not be set in stone as things can quickly change. I really hope this is not the case but history says different
Olympic sports maybe. But all strength sports dirty as hell. The world armwrestling champion is 190kg!
Cross fit is up there too.
Huge doping problem in Kenya but somehow Kipchoge is clean, I seriously doubt that. Running is an economic industry there, No one's going to testify, might end up crocodile food if you do. Anyway, I'm if it's too good to be true then it probably is. Kip's well within that realm.
Bodybuilding is the biggest one and then crossfit
Kipchoge's pacers are busted, and they can't keep up.
I’ll be honest, PEDs don’t bother me, but tif they are against the rules then so be it. Personally I’d like to see a league or federation willing to allow professionally monitored use of PEDs to push the human body to the upper limits. And let’s be honest, a majority of these top athletes are simply beating the game, like Lance did all those years ago.
We already had a time in the sport where upper limits got pushed. It was called the 1980s. Some of those records still stand.
Allowing PEDs is a whole different issue. Not every country has access to them.
It's a big reason why, for example, weed is a banned substance in some sports - because in lots of countries it's illegal, and if there are advantages to be gained from it, then it's unfair on those who can't access it.
@@THICCTHICCTHICC @woopimagpie I really don’t see any validity to either of these arguments, number one the 80s were a time when bodies were pushed to the limit, but PEDs were still considered illegal. Hence why Ben Johnson lost his medal. The league would be designated for those who want to use PED‘s, which would disqualify them for competing on the Olympic stage in any country so there would be no reason for athletes, who wanted to use PED‘s to stay in their home country. They would simply move to a country that allows do use of PED‘s and your argument is considered null void at that point.
Didn't train over the winter, run under 9 minutes a few months later.... 🤔
I haven't trained much the last 20 years, does that mean I'm ready to set a world record?
As has been suggested by many over the years.
Let athletes take every performance enhancing drug they can get their hands on; legalise drug taking in sport. There will still be winners and losers, but what will the losers use as an excuse!
An athlete's first offense should bring a 4 year ban, and a second offense should bring a lifetime ban.
Disagree - lifetime ban for first offence. Muscle cells can "remember" being stronger and it takes less time to get back to their historical strength, even after periods of rest.
@@declan781 No. Peter Bol's suspension was lifted after a B sampled didn't match. So the testing is still not 100%
@@declan781 I believe in everybody getting a second chance, and the 4 year ban would include regular testing.
@@declan781 you're prob and out of shape person I bet
@@SHARKVADERS make the first time offense 12 years then and second time prison for life
Can't be terrible if all the top athetes use.
"....another dark moment". 4:31 Yeah, another "pasty" display. I think my snack will be saltines and milk. 😉😜
I really envy the people who are as naïve to believe that pro athletes are clean
One day you’ll have the courage to tackle biological men in women’s sports. Having had male puberty is definitely performance enhancing.
World Athletics actually just banned transgender athletes from competing in their opposite gender the other day
@@evanyoung6993 but it's a far from solved matter. WA has no bearing or influence on the thousands of orgs from municipal to national ones across the world who are all struggling w/ the topic.
@@evanyoung6993 for international competition yes, but every national competition from high school to Masters still has trans “women” breaking records. I think there have been Masters’ records broken in Italy and Canada.
Don't like my comment, great video btw
no
It's why no one cares about the Olympics that much anymore. Or the bicycling or swimming track and field power lifting all of it.
So easy really easy to get away with drugs , and how often must you use to get faster , for how long does the effect Las?
There are studys who indicate that a person who took human growth hormons, have advantages even ten years later ...
For epo i would expect a much shorter period