Yeah and what your definition of “caught” is. Seems like folks are studying the intricate systems of rules and skirting them, taking advantage of every single loophole. There will always be gaming of the system unfortunately. I say let them do whatever and ruin their bodies LT if that’s what they want. Not that it makes it fair but what else can you do if there are always people ahead of the testing protocols?
Facts….the way times have been dropping the past few years they’re definitely all doping. I think the top athletes are on some new designer drugs they aren’t even looking for yet.
If true, this should follow suite what happened to Russia: loss of license for Spanish antidoping agency and Spanish athletes disqualification unless reside/tested outside Spain
The US covered up positive tests in the 80s and 90s. They should have also been banned. They never were, but now that we're banning countries for their wrongs, the US should be included in that.
@@mssha1980 its 50/50 political. Russia also gave the chance for the punishing. But if they dont want to make it 100% political they have to ban spain to...
@utish1 It hasn't been proven true yet. However, from now on a plan should be instituted to test samples not only in the home country but also at internationally owned and operated labs. Sure it will be more expensive but if the world doesn't blow its top, international competition will become one of the greatest entertainments.
It is political with Russia. They doped so badly and so ham-handedly that even other countries who couldn’t be so bold decided to ban them. In all things involving human corruption, the practice itself is generally endemic. But there is always an either agreed or normative level of corruption allowed. When someone exceeds that level, the hammer drops. For example, it did so in Russia itself! In the run-up to Sochi, Russian Olympic venue contractors so egregiously exceeded Russian corruption norms (which are comparatively much higher than most) for both skimming and failure to perform that even Putin had to crack down. So, yah, it’s “political” but not in the way you meant… As a very high-level Ukrainian defense official told me in 2016, “Ukrainian corruption gives corruption a bad name. But it’s not even close to Russian corruption.” 😅
Good for you for taking this on. We all know it's rampant and logically, probably universal by necessity. It's a tremendous rabbit hole to go down, that's for sure.
We live in a such world of sport where TIME still finds its place to reign on earth. Uhh-breakable, indeed. Thanks, TruthBomb, can do without Tuhan Yang Maha Esa.
I've been a runner my entire life, and was even quite good once. Here's the big elephant in the room...the drugs get better, the tracks get better, the training techniques get better, even the shoes have become better. Records as they say are meant to be broken. It was what it was, and now it is what it is. Someone will always find a way to win.
Seriously, 1 36 00 only for ll yearn half female Half Marathoner. or stay out o this. KNow this actual fact : getting harder and harder, Zero Eight? I did once. Zero Six, ... etc. But ZerO still on the pursuit. Are you the real runner? Answer this or me, see the diff? Smart but ...
Truly disgusting: I think individual cases always pose contradictions in the sense that athletes have a lot of incentives to cheat…but a governing body / federation?? It’s truly chilling how corrupt the sport might be.
I'm reminded of Operation Puerto where the Spanish authorities seemed to do their best to stop athletes from being linked to the case, particularly those outside of cycling.
Big rumours of the Spanish football team being doped off their heads in their recent glory years. Real Madrid always put players on steroids. Look at Ronaldo and Gareth Bale a few months after joining Madrid. Juiced to the absolute 9's. I got no issues with it either, but they out here selling you WWE with this shit.
It feels to me that much more people are doping that most people realize. I still think it goes way deeper than many could possibly imagine. Sad but true
A friend of mine used to be married to a professional cyclist and she said he and his cyclist friends ALL doped-they only varied in how MUCH they doped, but doping was basically universal.
Operación Puerto commenced in Spain in 2006. Thats 17 years ago, and its still not concluded. In the meantime cyclists, footballs, athletes and others have all been found to have doped, and there are many higher profile athletes accused of being caught up in this scandal, one Rafeal Nadal is another. Spain and many other countries Russia, Kenya and of course the USA under the likes of Alberto Salazar. It would be naive to think that anyone who is running sub 2hrs 4mins for the marathon (mens) is not on the juice at present.
The core problems are the complacency/corruption of WADA, and World Athletics. The rules and testing regimes need to be firm, and fair, and equitable to all. That it's not, lies in the hands of these two ultimately. If they're dropping the ball, there needs to be reform with these two agencies.
Erthyropoitin use is very widespread in athletics. Top sports doctors will simply administer it in training, and then come off it close to competition. Athletes red blood cells will hit >8cells/mcL prior to races and have zero EPO detected. Of course, nobody suspects anything because they train at altitude. Even without altitude training, or EPO, there is a 3rd way to get erythrocyte counts up that is completely undetectable in current testing
In the late nineties there was a laptop full of customers of the "legendary" Dr. Fuentes. Before the content could released tho the public, the national court in Madrid has forbidden it and claimed it under their jurisdiction. Rumors said, several soccer teams, tennis players had files on that laptop. Only some cyclists, like Jan Ullrich were sacrificed.
In the pro cycling world Spain was much more forgiving of it's biggest stars (Alberto Contador and Alejandro Valverde) doping scandals than France, Germany, Netherlands, Denmark or the US, etc, were of their athletes that got caught. That was back in the late 90's and all through the 0's but some attitudes are hard to change. Russia's the same way-win at any cost no matter how shamefully.
Shameful? It's shameful when athletes use steroids? What about creatine? Is creatine or protein powder shameful too? Those aren't natural and improve performance every ones ok with those. Let them juice and grow up
@@blackberrythornsyou really think the UK is clean?😂 They may have LESS government protected doping but their athletes certainly aren't all clean. *Most dopers, regardless of their national origin will never test positive.
Agree to putting shade or revealing true face of sport in Spain. Always knew something is fishy about their soccer teams or cyclist with heavy reliance on endurance. Hope it doesn’t affect my beloved tennis players but can’t be sure anymore.
Indeed. They win nothing since ever and suddenly start winning in football as well as in many other sports. But then, when it comes to Olympics, they get very few medals...and in the Olympics the doping checks are harder to be passed, so...
It's mad how people are shocked 😂 They can get around a positive test anyway and still test clean while doping. Just check who is under the spanish doping protocol and look back on all of them
Slowly but surely its proving to be just as 'dirty' as professional cycling was (maybe still is?) a few years ago. There was a time after the Lance Armstrong debacle that most of the top riders on the European cycling circuit were under the 'Therapeutic Use Exemption' protocol. After news of that broke you saw a lot of them disappear from the top ranks or retire from the sport of bicycling. We might be seeing the first evidence of something big and bad coming to light in T&F/running.
Go take a look at video of lance armstrong attacking in the mountains then compare the strain on his face to that of kipchoge breaking 2 hours for the marathon and tell me who you think is taking more drugs?😂
@@vernonfrance2974 The flaw in that viewpoint is that Armstrong has openly admitted he was doping. You're just being wilfully ignorant. My brother-in-law had testicular cancer and also had one removed, just like Armstrong. He was never offered, nor did he require, any of the drugs Armstrong took. Lance was doping, no question. It's irrefutable. He took EPO's and steroids. None of those are part of any cancer treatment. Hell, he was even found to be guilty of distribution. That's about as guilty as it gets mate.
@@woopimagpie There is also the possibility that the cancer was 'caused' by the drugs he was taking. He lied and lied and lied and lied.. and tried to ruin the lives of anyone who stood in his way. He was not (and is not) the only person doping, but he is not the victim here. His actions have tainted the sport for everyone, and has repeatedly shown himself to be a terrible human being. Cheaters should have the book thrown at them. Particularly ones who cheated like he did.
@@vernonfrance2974 If using steroids/hormones post-cancer its usually because the cancer was so aggressive it ravaged someone's body and they needed the steroids/hormones to regain muscle mass, and its just a short-term treatment. I had a co-worker go through that in the mid-1990s and he was on growth hormones for about 2 months. He was in no shape to do anything exhaustive after the 'juice' treatments were completed, let alone run 2hr marathons or win TdF stage races. Lance was flat-out cheating, he got caught, and the punishments were well deserved.
Why WOULDN'T Spain engage in systemic doping??? I mean they simply looked at Russia and said, "WHY NOT?" The repercussions were meaningless. With appeals & arbitration, Russia was allowed to keep the VAST MAJORITY of those 42 Olympic medals originally stripped by WADA & IOC. And the pathetic 4yr ban placed on the Russian Federation was FURTHER reduced to only 2 yrs. And as for individual repercussions, the lifetime Olympic bans originally levied against individual cheaters were ALL STRUCK DOWN in the end. Hell it can be argued Shelby Houlihan's 4yr ban is far more severe than that levied against the whole Russian Federation that conducted an ENTIRE STATE-BACKED doping program spanning hundreds of athletes, involved physical breaking & entering into testing facilities, sample theft & tampering, wholesale destruction of evidence including computer records, and the use of an entire govt intelligence agency, the FSB, to essentially conduct & cover-up espionage activity! Spain saw & learned - organized, govt/agency sanctioned cheating PAYS.
I was nowhere near the level of these guys in my day. The challenges in the late 80's and 90's (Ben Johnson for example), made me scared to even take a panado back in the day. I still don't take any meds unless absolutely needed. The issues seem so much more complex today. Whatever the truth, it should be investigated and if needed, Spain should be dealt with, just like Russia was.
There’s always been and always will be cheating when it comes to performance enhancing substances…..my opinion is based on my personal experience anc the network of athletes I knew back when I competed
The article is informative and required. It is strange to me how Spanish doping agencies can circumvent the system on an international level. Are there no checks and balances?
thanks, i am a Spanish National runner, i need to say thaks to you, there are no news or papers at all ,and it is obvious. But all around the world. THANKS
They should just rid of TUEs in general. It's very subjective. An athlete/coach wants to use a banned substance, then just get a doctor to justify a TUE.
Doping is part of the sport and has been for a very long time… sad to see trp always going after less known athletes then turn around and praise people like kiptum and ingebritsen
@markmetternich1435Why would anyone risk being humiliated and their reputation ruined for life? What are your credentials for knowing "how big sport is run?
This should shock no one, the second in command of WADA said in a public interview that most countries have zero incentive to catching or punishing athletes, and that he would not be surprised if almost all elite level athletes were using some type of PED.
Spain has had issues with this for years, most notably throwing out a load of samples (court ordered) that related to high profile athletes (guessed at to be tennis/football/cycling) suggesting money and influence involved.
As a person whose been an athlete for most of his life, I find it sad and pathetic when people dope. Though it's kind of funny when these nobodies get caught for doping. The only thing they'll be known for is being caught for doping.... And the biggest motivation for their doping: sponsorships. Money. They want that big footwear contract. Speaking engagements. Lance Armstrong should be the poster boy for big stars who get caught for doping. And like him, all athletes caught for doping should be banned from their sport FOR LIFE. If I were an athlete, I would boycott a country for allowing doping to happen. No problem. Give me more time to train to break a course record at a clean event. And the international governing body of a sport should either boycott a country allowing doping or take away any significance their competitions have on the world rankings.... If they aren't doing that, you have to wonder how high the corruption goes....
Loopholes? Cronyism? Corruption? I get why coaches/athletes try to work the system. Programs like "Destination Imagination" teach that if it doesn't say you can't than it means you can. This isn't necessarily bad because it teaches innovation, but it means that the rules need to be air tight. IDK how you make them air-tight in the world of athletics. That's hard.
The US antidoping agency were aiding and supporting doping of some US athletes. In their statements they claimed they did it to find out other cheaters 🤣🤣. Was happening several years ago. The athletes involved have since retired, no repercussions. Could still be happening.
If you took away the huge money involved you would see a noticeable drop in drug use. The problem exist across the universal board. Why bother if there is no money in it...RIGHT?
State wide Doping has been an issue for decades. Spain has been a haven since the days of LA. Portugal is even more of a haven of looking the other direction.
I do think corruption is rampant in Spain. That's why these athletes are switching countries. Fame & Greed supercedes integrity, honor & good moral values. Eventually what's in the dark will come to light & they will crash & burn. Such a shame!
I think the next level of doping will come from the field of Genetic alterations, which would be even harder to test or track. If you can genetically modify the Mitrochronical density of tissues, that would give you a huge advantage in endurance sports, what about the clearing ability of Lactic acid/lactate. Even a 1-3% change in these is HUGE at the top tier of sports. Everyone is doping they are just ahead of the tests or bans.
this is sounding like a compliance issue mate... This is hardly what we saw a decade ago from Fuentes. I would only insinuate motive on behalf of CELAD if you can prove it or have a source reporting it as such who has the means to defend that in court. This is hardly the drug controversy you have your comments section thinking. That would require WADA to be complicit when in reality it seems they were caught sleeping at the wheel. It's pretty embarrassing. CELAD looks like they were doing bush league things that can be 100% confirmed like sending paper mail instead of email - which isn't illegal by the way. There are other allegations but none that I've seen Relevo be able to confirm. WADA will acknowledge if i had to guess, give them time to get back into compliance, review any failings, back date suspensions, and possibly fine them for any circumvention IF they prove it.
@@vernonfrance2974 I’m suspicious after seeing so many people I admired being exposed when I was at an impressionable age. It’s not sour grapes so much as being overly sceptical. Trust me, I am actually less sceptical than I used to be but I’m still not surprised when a doping case comes to light sadly.
There's still a few records from the 1980s that stand. Those athletes have irrefutably been proven to be doping, and yet the records still stand. There's your answer.
They do. It's called "elite". All of them are doping. ALL OF THEM. As someone who has been involved in the sport for nearly 40 years now, you have go back to club level to find athletes who aren't taking something, and even at that level you can take a walk through the carpark before an event and you'll see quite a lot of pills being downed by participants before they get out of their cars, even at community fun-runs and non-serious events. It's mostly paracetemol, anti-inflammatories, and sometimes codeine and/or amphetamines, but those are all banned at elite level, so...... yeah..... the elite athletes are ALL "assisting". As you go up the ranks the drugs just become more sophisticated and the administration more stealthy. I should know. I've seen it and I've done it myself at State level. When a doping scandal breaks, it's not because they started doping, it's because they got careless or unlucky and got caught. They are ALL doping, and they are ALL lying about it. And in quite a lot of cases, like this one from Spain, the individual countries athletics bodies are complicit, and in some cases are actively running doping programs. It sounds like I'm slandering the sport, I know, but time and time again I'm proven right when there's a bust.
Man, Spain is KNOWN for doing this. Early 00's you should investigate is Johann Muhlegg (cross country skiing, originally from Austria but changed to Spain) and Nina Zhivanevskaya (swimming, originally from former Soviet Union but changed to Spain). There was another dude (a cyclist) who also got caught after switching to Spain but I don't remember the name right now. So, Spain doing shitty thing with newly found "talent" has a long and sordid history. Remember when they won medals in the Paralympics with an able bodied crew? Yep, that happened.
Cheating, lying and corruption, whether that be in politics, business or sport, is the method by which the world now appears to operate...and the great corruptor can be described with one word...MONEY.
America should very much value it’s champions! I’ve said this almost a year ago. We don’t need our leaders compromising on their physical and moral health! Many American champions have jobs besides running.
I personally beileve all top athletes are doping in some way. It is just a matter of who gets caught and who has the most money and knowledge not to get caught.
What do these banned substances actually do for the person using them? Better endurance? More energy? Quicker muscle response?.....I wonder will these drugs affect the persons health in the future?
Not even the tip of the iceberg. The idea that police all over the world are corruptable, but doping agencies aren't seems absurd. When money is involved all integrity goes out the window. With a good team and the right funding doping is impossible to prevent, honestly not even worth the money.
We can only hope that the various anti-doping agencies are doing their genuine best to root out cheaters. It is a bit pathetic that those two, relatively unknown athletes, posting middling professional-level marks, are doping.
Yes! The drugs are bad but hasn't it always been individual deceitfulness and dishonesty that destroys relationships and then nations? Our president has been caught taking millions of dollars from China and then lying about it. Maybe we aught to look at that too!
It's one thing for an individual to cheat. But to have what is supposed to be a governing body willfully use administrative based tactics to facilitate cheating, well........
This is a truly terrible story and thank you to TRP for bringing it to our attention. The fact that the Spanish anti-doping authority was intimately involved is bad enough but that WADA itself may have been aware and did nothing is mind blowingly bad. What is the point of watching athletics if we cannot have confidence in WADA actually doing its job properly
As a South African, I can honestly say the floods aren't as bad as he made it out to be. Infact, other parts of South Africa has had stronger floods so it's very random for him to make Johannesburg the point of reference for where the intense flooding occured but okay👀🤡
I appreciate all your work on these videos....the frustrating aspect of this video and many similarly like this is the image you link to it...I hate the click bate...I think I'm clicking on a cheating scandal involving someone in that image only to find out it's not and not even a sprinter is kinda lame...just use an image of the cheater so we know.
Yes. Yes. And Yes. I think there are problems with the athletes. I think there is collusion and corruption going on in Spain. And there will always be some coaches involved in the mess.
Spain has had problems going back to before 2006. Look up Operation Puerto. Mainly cyclist were involved, but also soccer players and apparently a very high profile tennis player .
It's nothing new and nothing I wouldn't expect. The big problem is that the ones who are and have help in their anti doping agencies likely won't get any punishment unless the other countries get proactive in the world agency and make it come clean. Unlike many I know there are many completely clean athletes and that includes some who were punished unrightfully for something stupid like eating a pork burrito on the way home from practice that elevated certain amino acid and steroids in their system for a few hours. During which they were having no competition, no training, and were finished with all related activities for the day. And the world anti doping fools banned them even though the proof was in the food and the blood that it was just a burrito after practice that did not meet the criteria for doping nor a PED. Anyway this one if reported accurately is not fishy it's simply systematic corruption.
Plenty of footballers in Spain are absolutely juicing with epo and other goodies. What they do is just sanction non Spanish players and don’t bother with the Spanish players especially if they are part of the national team!
When I hear about all of these long standing records being broken and broken by a lot, doping is the first thing I think. It makes me not want to look at the sport anymore. Cheating is just gross.
A woman's body doesn't look like this without any performance enhancing drugs. I believe this was a combination of PED, rigorous training and discipline.
You lost me at 7:44 with “exceptional situations “. How are they not under the jurisdiction of CELAD? They should still have to apply for a TUE. You got me questioning that any athlete with duel citizenship does not have to apply for a TUE…
No athlete takes PED'S intentionally. They are always spiked or their food was contaminated or the tests were conducted by fools etc Maxim of law - 'Nothing can be defended, because everything can'
LOL. Weirdly enough they do actually drug test F1 drivers, but performance enhancing drugs are rare in that sport, it's usually recreational drugs they're testing for. A few drivers have tested positive for alcohol over the years, if you can believe that. Probably still over the limit from last night's party would be my guess, but the drivers are all pretty fitness conscious these days so partying before race days is pretty rare. I'm guessing amphetamines and coke would be popular in that line of work, they're all mad adrenaline junkies, and it's not like they don't have the money to bribe their way out of it. "Pretend you didn't see that test result and I'll buy you a yacht!" LOL.
If Spain's athletes aren't banned from competing under the Spanish flag for the next world championships and Olympics, due to state sponsored cheating, then the world owes Russia a big fricken apology.
To be honest I think it is absolutely right that the russian athletes are banned from competition but to be fair if this article is not 100% made up the spain athletes have to banned as well (all of them) until the case isnsolved and everything is looked over.
It’s not who is doping, it’s who gets caught doping.
You are not wrong
Sadly
Yeah and what your definition of “caught” is. Seems like folks are studying the intricate systems of rules and skirting them, taking advantage of every single loophole. There will always be gaming of the system unfortunately. I say let them do whatever and ruin their bodies LT if that’s what they want. Not that it makes it fair but what else can you do if there are always people ahead of the testing protocols?
Facts….the way times have been dropping the past few years they’re definitely all doping. I think the top athletes are on some new designer drugs they aren’t even looking for yet.
I’d be more surprised if anyone was natural.
If true, this should follow suite what happened to Russia: loss of license for Spanish antidoping agency and Spanish athletes disqualification unless reside/tested outside Spain
The US covered up positive tests in the 80s and 90s. They should have also been banned. They never were, but now that we're banning countries for their wrongs, the US should be included in that.
It’s political with Russia
@@mssha1980 its 50/50 political. Russia also gave the chance for the punishing. But if they dont want to make it 100% political they have to ban spain to...
@utish1 It hasn't been proven true yet.
However, from now on a plan should be instituted to test samples not only in the home country but also at internationally owned and operated labs. Sure it will be more expensive but if the world doesn't blow its top, international competition will become one of the greatest entertainments.
It is political with Russia. They doped so badly and so ham-handedly that even other countries who couldn’t be so bold decided to ban them. In all things involving human corruption, the practice itself is generally endemic. But there is always an either agreed or normative level of corruption allowed. When someone exceeds that level, the hammer drops. For example, it did so in Russia itself! In the run-up to Sochi, Russian Olympic venue contractors so egregiously exceeded Russian corruption norms (which are comparatively much higher than most) for both skimming and failure to perform that even Putin had to crack down. So, yah, it’s “political” but not in the way you meant… As a very high-level Ukrainian defense official told me in 2016, “Ukrainian corruption gives corruption a bad name. But it’s not even close to Russian corruption.” 😅
Good for you for taking this on. We all know it's rampant and logically, probably universal by necessity. It's a tremendous rabbit hole to go down, that's for sure.
He definitely gives the best runners the benefit of the doubt. He's oblivious
We live in a such world of sport where TIME still finds its place to reign on earth. Uhh-breakable, indeed. Thanks, TruthBomb, can do without Tuhan Yang Maha Esa.
I've been a runner my entire life, and was even quite good once. Here's the big elephant in the room...the drugs get better, the tracks get better, the training techniques get better, even the shoes have become better. Records as they say are meant to be broken. It was what it was, and now it is what it is. Someone will always find a way to win.
Sadly eh.
But we cannot negate that it is a tough sport and a lot of people want to win.
It's been a very long time since the bulk of world records were clean😂
Seriously, 1 36 00 only for ll yearn half female Half Marathoner. or stay out o this. KNow this actual fact : getting harder and harder, Zero Eight? I did once. Zero Six, ... etc. But ZerO still on the pursuit. Are you the real runner? Answer this or me, see the diff? Smart but ...
@ericerian1811 wow, that's impossible to read😅
wtf@@ericerian1811
Truly disgusting: I think individual cases always pose contradictions in the sense that athletes have a lot of incentives to cheat…but a governing body / federation?? It’s truly chilling how corrupt the sport might be.
What's disgusting??
Disgusting? Chilling? Because athletes used steroids? You need get out more😂
@@evannatland5151because they’re cheating and killing themselves early while doing it
Ok, Karen
If I were a fed op? Stop complaining! Do exactly what they told you so, please! Seperti itu.
Didn't the spanish women's relay team break several records in Eugene? Russia got punished for this.
Bingo. Spain itself was assisting the athletes in covering up banned substances. Ban Spain.
@@bigjohn2811the US also did this in the 80s and 90s...possibly longer but we don't know yet. They should also get banned
@@bigjohn2811 If the allegations are true then Spain has reached the status of Russia. Banning Spain is certainly not out of question.
@@wesleydeng71 well, no. not the level of Russia lol. but still, ban the shit out of Spain too.
Who would have thought that “unbelievable” performances are just that…
I'm reminded of Operation Puerto where the Spanish authorities seemed to do their best to stop athletes from being linked to the case, particularly those outside of cycling.
Big rumours of the Spanish football team being doped off their heads in their recent glory years.
Real Madrid always put players on steroids. Look at Ronaldo and Gareth Bale a few months after joining Madrid. Juiced to the absolute 9's.
I got no issues with it either, but they out here selling you WWE with this shit.
I'll take it one step further and say that doping is rife in elite sport - but only a small fraction get caught.
Oh boy you really went out on a limb there (not) 😂😂😂
No doubt about it.
It feels to me that much more people are doping that most people realize. I still think it goes way deeper than many could possibly imagine. Sad but true
I’d be more surprised if anyone was natural..
@thedailystride5407 I'd be a dope if I thought people dope without me having the inside dope.
Oh it's deep. All athletes are doping in profitable and professional sports.
Serious question: given how young he is and how quickly he has risen the ranks, and of course how fast he is, do people think Kiptum is clean or not?
Nobody is clean at this point!
He's not clean.
As a guy who is always around a lot of distance runners, I haven’t heard of a lot of people who think he’s clean
Time will tell. But he has raised a lot of eyebrows.
I think he’s dirty. I hate to be like that but it’s the most likely conclusion at this point.
A friend of mine used to be married to a professional cyclist and she said he and his cyclist friends ALL doped-they only varied in how MUCH they doped, but doping was basically universal.
Yes, just remember AMSTRONG 🤡
As someone from Spain I'm deeply ashamed of what happened here
Operación Puerto commenced in Spain in 2006. Thats 17 years ago, and its still not concluded. In the meantime cyclists, footballs, athletes and others have all been found to have doped, and there are many higher profile athletes accused of being caught up in this scandal, one Rafeal Nadal is another. Spain and many other countries Russia, Kenya and of course the USA under the likes of Alberto Salazar. It would be naive to think that anyone who is running sub 2hrs 4mins for the marathon (mens) is not on the juice at present.
The core problems are the complacency/corruption of WADA, and World Athletics.
The rules and testing regimes need to be firm, and fair, and equitable to all. That it's not, lies in the hands of these two ultimately.
If they're dropping the ball, there needs to be reform with these two agencies.
The whole thing stinks to high heaven. Sport is corrupt, period.
Erthyropoitin use is very widespread in athletics. Top sports doctors will simply administer it in training, and then come off it close to competition. Athletes red blood cells will hit >8cells/mcL prior to races and have zero EPO detected. Of course, nobody suspects anything because they train at altitude. Even without altitude training, or EPO, there is a 3rd way to get erythrocyte counts up that is completely undetectable in current testing
In the late nineties there was a laptop full of customers of the "legendary" Dr. Fuentes. Before the content could released tho the public, the national court in Madrid has forbidden it and claimed it under their jurisdiction. Rumors said, several soccer teams, tennis players had files on that laptop. Only some cyclists, like Jan Ullrich were sacrificed.
Spain importing athletes and doping them up is nothing new. Seems like you are as old as me and would remember Johann Muhlegg. 🙂
@@CapitalismSuxx Yes of course, Iam German🤣
In the pro cycling world Spain was much more forgiving of it's biggest stars (Alberto Contador and Alejandro Valverde) doping scandals than France, Germany, Netherlands, Denmark or the US, etc, were of their athletes that got caught. That was back in the late 90's and all through the 0's but some attitudes are hard to change. Russia's the same way-win at any cost no matter how shamefully.
Shameful? It's shameful when athletes use steroids? What about creatine? Is creatine or protein powder shameful too? Those aren't natural and improve performance every ones ok with those. Let them juice and grow up
the united states has covered up plenty of positive tests too. the british are always completely cleans even amidst blatant absurdity.
The US covered up positive drug tests for track stars in the 80s and 90s. That's what we know. It may have gone on longer and may be happening now
@@evannatland5151you do know that everything isn't a PED don't you?
*Rhetorical question you'll answer incorrectly
@@blackberrythornsyou really think the UK is clean?😂 They may have LESS government protected doping but their athletes certainly aren't all clean.
*Most dopers, regardless of their national origin will never test positive.
Agree to putting shade or revealing true face of sport in Spain. Always knew something is fishy about their soccer teams or cyclist with heavy reliance on endurance. Hope it doesn’t affect my beloved tennis players but can’t be sure anymore.
Indeed. They win nothing since ever and suddenly start winning in football as well as in many other sports. But then, when it comes to Olympics, they get very few medals...and in the Olympics the doping checks are harder to be passed, so...
Not just Spain, everyone is at it,
It's mad how people are shocked 😂 They can get around a positive test anyway and still test clean while doping. Just check who is under the spanish doping protocol and look back on all of them
Slowly but surely its proving to be just as 'dirty' as professional cycling was (maybe still is?) a few years ago. There was a time after the Lance Armstrong debacle that most of the top riders on the European cycling circuit were under the 'Therapeutic Use Exemption' protocol. After news of that broke you saw a lot of them disappear from the top ranks or retire from the sport of bicycling. We might be seeing the first evidence of something big and bad coming to light in T&F/running.
Go take a look at video of lance armstrong attacking in the mountains then compare the strain on his face to that of kipchoge breaking 2 hours for the marathon and tell me who you think is taking more drugs?😂
@crosslink1493 I love Lance a lot and he had had one testicle removed due to cancer. That justified his medication, IMO.
@@vernonfrance2974 The flaw in that viewpoint is that Armstrong has openly admitted he was doping. You're just being wilfully ignorant.
My brother-in-law had testicular cancer and also had one removed, just like Armstrong. He was never offered, nor did he require, any of the drugs Armstrong took. Lance was doping, no question. It's irrefutable. He took EPO's and steroids. None of those are part of any cancer treatment. Hell, he was even found to be guilty of distribution. That's about as guilty as it gets mate.
@@woopimagpie There is also the possibility that the cancer was 'caused' by the drugs he was taking.
He lied and lied and lied and lied.. and tried to ruin the lives of anyone who stood in his way.
He was not (and is not) the only person doping, but he is not the victim here.
His actions have tainted the sport for everyone, and has repeatedly shown himself to be a terrible human being.
Cheaters should have the book thrown at them. Particularly ones who cheated like he did.
@@vernonfrance2974 If using steroids/hormones post-cancer its usually because the cancer was so aggressive it ravaged someone's body and they needed the steroids/hormones to regain muscle mass, and its just a short-term treatment. I had a co-worker go through that in the mid-1990s and he was on growth hormones for about 2 months. He was in no shape to do anything exhaustive after the 'juice' treatments were completed, let alone run 2hr marathons or win TdF stage races. Lance was flat-out cheating, he got caught, and the punishments were well deserved.
If there are any top level athletes that are not "doping" I would be very surprised.
I feel like the same is happening in Italy right now, too many big jumps in performance.
the comparison at the beggining was so random
Why WOULDN'T Spain engage in systemic doping??? I mean they simply looked at Russia and said, "WHY NOT?" The repercussions were meaningless. With appeals & arbitration, Russia was allowed to keep the VAST MAJORITY of those 42 Olympic medals originally stripped by WADA & IOC. And the pathetic 4yr ban placed on the Russian Federation was FURTHER reduced to only 2 yrs. And as for individual repercussions, the lifetime Olympic bans originally levied against individual cheaters were ALL STRUCK DOWN in the end. Hell it can be argued Shelby Houlihan's 4yr ban is far more severe than that levied against the whole Russian Federation that conducted an ENTIRE STATE-BACKED doping program spanning hundreds of athletes, involved physical breaking & entering into testing facilities, sample theft & tampering, wholesale destruction of evidence including computer records, and the use of an entire govt intelligence agency, the FSB, to essentially conduct & cover-up espionage activity! Spain saw & learned - organized, govt/agency sanctioned cheating PAYS.
The rain in Spain falls mainly . . . well, I would guess that it crosses MANY borders.
I was nowhere near the level of these guys in my day. The challenges in the late 80's and 90's (Ben Johnson for example), made me scared to even take a panado back in the day. I still don't take any meds unless absolutely needed. The issues seem so much more complex today.
Whatever the truth, it should be investigated and if needed, Spain should be dealt with, just like Russia was.
There’s always been and always will be cheating when it comes to performance enhancing substances…..my opinion is based on my personal experience anc the network of athletes I knew back when I competed
I think that's pretty obvious. Its almost v better to just be an average athlete so you can enjoy the sport and small gains you can earn.
Fascinating. How do you know all this though?
The article is informative and required. It is strange to me how Spanish doping agencies can circumvent the system on an international level. Are there no checks and balances?
thanks, i am a Spanish National runner, i need to say thaks to you, there are no news or papers at all ,and it is obvious. But all around the world. THANKS
They should just rid of TUEs in general. It's very subjective. An athlete/coach wants to use a banned substance, then just get a doctor to justify a TUE.
Doping is part of the sport and has been for a very long time… sad to see trp always going after less known athletes then turn around and praise people like kiptum and ingebritsen
@abone2pick Ingebrigsten is Clean. Running runs in his family.
@@vernonfrance2974that’s like saying the rock isn’t on steroids cause all his family was ripped😹
@@abone2pick He's innocent until proven guilty.
@markmetternich1435Why would anyone risk being humiliated and their reputation ruined for life? What are your credentials for knowing "how big sport is run?
I say we do away with all these doping regulations and see what the human body can really do.
This should shock no one, the second in command of WADA said in a public interview that most countries have zero incentive to catching or punishing athletes, and that he would not be surprised if almost all elite level athletes were using some type of PED.
Spain has had issues with this for years, most notably throwing out a load of samples (court ordered) that related to high profile athletes (guessed at to be tennis/football/cycling) suggesting money and influence involved.
Look at Gareth Bale and Ronaldo after they joined Madrid 😳
Juicy time.
I’m losing interest in track n field rn ,too much drugs n it’s not just one country it’s all of them …
Thanks for sharing. I’ll alert the press.
As a person whose been an athlete for most of his life, I find it sad and pathetic when people dope. Though it's kind of funny when these nobodies get caught for doping. The only thing they'll be known for is being caught for doping....
And the biggest motivation for their doping: sponsorships. Money. They want that big footwear contract. Speaking engagements. Lance Armstrong should be the poster boy for big stars who get caught for doping. And like him, all athletes caught for doping should be banned from their sport FOR LIFE.
If I were an athlete, I would boycott a country for allowing doping to happen. No problem. Give me more time to train to break a course record at a clean event. And the international governing body of a sport should either boycott a country allowing doping or take away any significance their competitions have on the world rankings.... If they aren't doing that, you have to wonder how high the corruption goes....
Loopholes? Cronyism? Corruption? I get why coaches/athletes try to work the system. Programs like "Destination Imagination" teach that if it doesn't say you can't than it means you can. This isn't necessarily bad because it teaches innovation, but it means that the rules need to be air tight. IDK how you make them air-tight in the world of athletics. That's hard.
Russia did this too in the Olympics. Maybe the best solution is to allow other countries to test your athletes. No favorites there lol
@Pepesilvia267 How about an international panel of dopes who get the real dope on the dopes who are doping?
Isn't this like state sponsored doping
Here in the States, we arrest coaches like Salazar.. but his athletes stay untouched. Rupp's marathon PR, 2018, Coach arrested 2019..
The US antidoping agency were aiding and supporting doping of some US athletes. In their statements they claimed they did it to find out other cheaters 🤣🤣. Was happening several years ago. The athletes involved have since retired, no repercussions. Could still be happening.
how about all the gold medals spain got in speed walking, i bet there are some questionable issues in there as well.
Such as, "why is speed walking an olympic sport"?
Spain have been at this kind of thing for a while, 2000 paralympic basketball gold medal was stripped from them.
If you took away the huge money involved you would see a noticeable drop in drug use. The problem exist across the universal board. Why bother if there is no money in it...RIGHT?
State wide Doping has been an issue for decades. Spain has been a haven since the days of LA. Portugal is even more of a haven of looking the other direction.
I do think corruption is rampant in Spain. That's why these athletes are switching countries. Fame & Greed supercedes integrity, honor & good moral values. Eventually what's in the dark will come to light & they will crash & burn. Such a shame!
Remember this is the country that sent an able bodied basketball team to the paralympics.
It is sad that the anti doping agency of an entire country is this crooked.
I think the next level of doping will come from the field of Genetic alterations, which would be even harder to test or track. If you can genetically modify the Mitrochronical density of tissues, that would give you a huge advantage in endurance sports, what about the clearing ability of Lactic acid/lactate. Even a 1-3% change in these is HUGE at the top tier of sports. Everyone is doping they are just ahead of the tests or bans.
So, we're going to act like we've only about this with Spain?
this is sounding like a compliance issue mate... This is hardly what we saw a decade ago from Fuentes. I would only insinuate motive on behalf of CELAD if you can prove it or have a source reporting it as such who has the means to defend that in court. This is hardly the drug controversy you have your comments section thinking. That would require WADA to be complicit when in reality it seems they were caught sleeping at the wheel. It's pretty embarrassing. CELAD looks like they were doing bush league things that can be 100% confirmed like sending paper mail instead of email - which isn't illegal by the way. There are other allegations but none that I've seen Relevo be able to confirm. WADA will acknowledge if i had to guess, give them time to get back into compliance, review any failings, back date suspensions, and possibly fine them for any circumvention IF they prove it.
sad that is the issue for a lot of the top athletes no mater the sport.
I think it’s been hard to trust any record or win is clean for decades. Sadly I’m never surprised when it comes to light.
@charlottehardy822I am pretty suspicious about why people are so suspicious. (So*r gr*pes)
@@vernonfrance2974 I’m suspicious after seeing so many people I admired being exposed when I was at an impressionable age. It’s not sour grapes so much as being overly sceptical. Trust me, I am actually less sceptical than I used to be but I’m still not surprised when a doping case comes to light sadly.
There's still a few records from the 1980s that stand. Those athletes have irrefutably been proven to be doping, and yet the records still stand. There's your answer.
The should have a separate division for doping athletes at this point 🤷♀️
They do. It's called "elite". All of them are doping. ALL OF THEM. As someone who has been involved in the sport for nearly 40 years now, you have go back to club level to find athletes who aren't taking something, and even at that level you can take a walk through the carpark before an event and you'll see quite a lot of pills being downed by participants before they get out of their cars, even at community fun-runs and non-serious events. It's mostly paracetemol, anti-inflammatories, and sometimes codeine and/or amphetamines, but those are all banned at elite level, so...... yeah..... the elite athletes are ALL "assisting". As you go up the ranks the drugs just become more sophisticated and the administration more stealthy. I should know. I've seen it and I've done it myself at State level.
When a doping scandal breaks, it's not because they started doping, it's because they got careless or unlucky and got caught. They are ALL doping, and they are ALL lying about it. And in quite a lot of cases, like this one from Spain, the individual countries athletics bodies are complicit, and in some cases are actively running doping programs. It sounds like I'm slandering the sport, I know, but time and time again I'm proven right when there's a bust.
Man, Spain is KNOWN for doing this. Early 00's you should investigate is Johann Muhlegg (cross country skiing, originally from Austria but changed to Spain) and Nina Zhivanevskaya (swimming, originally from former Soviet Union but changed to Spain). There was another dude (a cyclist) who also got caught after switching to Spain but I don't remember the name right now. So, Spain doing shitty thing with newly found "talent" has a long and sordid history.
Remember when they won medals in the Paralympics with an able bodied crew? Yep, that happened.
Cheating, lying and corruption, whether that be in politics, business or sport, is the method by which the world now appears to operate...and the great corruptor can be described with one word...MONEY.
Now?
I’d be more surprised if anyone was natural.
Love this channel
America should very much value it’s champions! I’ve said this almost a year ago. We don’t need our leaders compromising on their physical and moral health! Many American champions have jobs besides running.
I personally beileve all top athletes are doping in some way. It is just a matter of who gets caught and who has the most money and knowledge not to get caught.
What do these banned substances actually do for the person using them? Better endurance? More energy? Quicker muscle response?.....I wonder will these drugs affect the persons health in the future?
depends, many simply improve recovery, allowing the athlete to train more often
“I’m from Barcelona, I know naathing!” //Manuel (fawlty Towers)
Are you confusing Fawlty Towers with Hogan's Heroes?
@@rayflaherty3441
ruclips.net/video/nX7CeTXoxyU/видео.htmlsi=FAN1zkStkX94ku_X
Not even the tip of the iceberg. The idea that police all over the world are corruptable, but doping agencies aren't seems absurd. When money is involved all integrity goes out the window. With a good team and the right funding doping is impossible to prevent, honestly not even worth the money.
We can only hope that the various anti-doping agencies are doing their genuine best to root out cheaters. It is a bit pathetic that those two, relatively unknown athletes, posting middling professional-level marks, are doping.
Yes! The drugs are bad but hasn't it always been individual deceitfulness and dishonesty that destroys relationships and then nations? Our president has been caught taking millions of dollars from China and then lying about it. Maybe we aught to look at that too!
It's one thing for an individual to cheat. But to have what is supposed to be a governing body willfully use administrative based tactics to facilitate cheating, well........
This is a truly terrible story and thank you to TRP for bringing it to our attention.
The fact that the Spanish anti-doping authority was intimately involved is bad enough but that WADA itself may have been aware and did nothing is mind blowingly bad. What is the point of watching athletics if we cannot have confidence in WADA actually doing its job properly
iis kipchoge clean?
noo
Spain is the new Russia. And when its too good to be true its too good to be true. Soon certain someone who debut in Valencia will get caught.
As a South African, I can honestly say the floods aren't as bad as he made it out to be. Infact, other parts of South Africa has had stronger floods so it's very random for him to make Johannesburg the point of reference for where the intense flooding occured but okay👀🤡
I assume that every elite athlete is doping. We should just stop pretending that they don’t and just embrace the truth.
Every country does that, especially the USA.
I appreciate all your work on these videos....the frustrating aspect of this video and many similarly like this is the image you link to it...I hate the click bate...I think I'm clicking on a cheating scandal involving someone in that image only to find out it's not and not even a sprinter is kinda lame...just use an image of the cheater so we know.
@aaron:
This video is for sure one of the few ones which is in no way clickbaiting. It focuses the attention on a sad but truly important aspect.
Yes. Yes. And Yes. I think there are problems with the athletes. I think there is collusion and corruption going on in Spain. And there will always be some coaches involved in the mess.
All these tragedies on my Bday.... I think someone is trying to tell me something.
Interesting intro... but it's a shame to hear this is happening
I need some running roids or I’ll never break 20 minutes for a 5K
14 mins should be doable if you are young enough with good genes, lower than that probably requires PEDs
Spain has had problems going back to before 2006.
Look up Operation Puerto.
Mainly cyclist were involved, but also soccer players and apparently a very high profile tennis player .
It's nothing new and nothing I wouldn't expect. The big problem is that the ones who are and have help in their anti doping agencies likely won't get any punishment unless the other countries get proactive in the world agency and make it come clean. Unlike many I know there are many completely clean athletes and that includes some who were punished unrightfully for something stupid like eating a pork burrito on the way home from practice that elevated certain amino acid and steroids in their system for a few hours. During which they were having no competition, no training, and were finished with all related activities for the day. And the world anti doping fools banned them even though the proof was in the food and the blood that it was just a burrito after practice that did not meet the criteria for doping nor a PED.
Anyway this one if reported accurately is not fishy it's simply systematic corruption.
Plenty of footballers in Spain are absolutely juicing with epo and other goodies.
What they do is just sanction non Spanish players and don’t bother with the Spanish players especially if they are part of the national team!
Nigeria didn't have the same treatment from international doping agencies, smh the world isnt the same for everyone.
When I hear about all of these long standing records being broken and broken by a lot, doping is the first thing I think. It makes me not want to look at the sport anymore. Cheating is just gross.
A woman's body doesn't look like this without any performance enhancing drugs. I believe this was a combination of PED, rigorous training and discipline.
If this happens in Spain. Imagine what was going on in Jamaica. LoL, cut my balls off if Jamaica wasn't / isn't involved in any doping program
If this is terrible news, you lead a charmed life.
In the field of athletics this is terrible news.
@@pete5691nah bro this oar for the course😂 you don't track if you think this rare at all, grow up
Seems like running now is like cycling in the 90s, sad to see
You lost me at 7:44 with “exceptional situations “. How are they not under the jurisdiction of CELAD? They should still have to apply for a TUE. You got me questioning that any athlete with duel citizenship does not have to apply for a TUE…
Cheating in a road race is definitely comparable to natural disasters that cost lives ...
No athlete takes PED'S intentionally.
They are always spiked or their food was contaminated or the tests were conducted by fools etc
Maxim of law -
'Nothing can be defended,
because everything can'
Let the 'games' commence
In the beginning you had me scared that Kiptum was banned
What’s going on in Kenya and Ethiopia
They need to test Fernando Alonso and Carols Sainz!!!!! They are too fast
LOL. Weirdly enough they do actually drug test F1 drivers, but performance enhancing drugs are rare in that sport, it's usually recreational drugs they're testing for. A few drivers have tested positive for alcohol over the years, if you can believe that. Probably still over the limit from last night's party would be my guess, but the drivers are all pretty fitness conscious these days so partying before race days is pretty rare. I'm guessing amphetamines and coke would be popular in that line of work, they're all mad adrenaline junkies, and it's not like they don't have the money to bribe their way out of it. "Pretend you didn't see that test result and I'll buy you a yacht!" LOL.
So shouldn’t Spain be banned like Russia ?
If Spain's athletes aren't banned from competing under the Spanish flag for the next world championships and Olympics, due to state sponsored cheating, then the world owes Russia a big fricken apology.
To be honest I think it is absolutely right that the russian athletes are banned from competition but to be fair if this article is not 100% made up the spain athletes have to banned as well (all of them) until the case isnsolved and everything is looked over.