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Paid $4500 for extended warranty from EG Assurance company. When I had a claim, they wanted a mechanic’s report that I had to pay for before any repairs were authorized. Would take days to even begin. Got tired of the runaround and gave up which is what they wanted. Never again. Hopefully your experience is better.
aftermarket oil cooler rad with fan, then if you want it to be even more cooler add a bypass oil filter that way the oil filter is seperate from the vechile and can cool faster instead of also catching heat from surrounding units like manifolds, and the engine itself. the oil will be circulating instead outside the engine inside the hoses that lead to a oil cooler rad style and then around to the oil filter and into the engine. by the time the oil does all that it will cool down by alot and keep staying cool.
@@donbrloks3959only purchase manufacturer ext warranty otherwise you have to play their games . Often the dealers want push what ever brand there gonna make the most commissions from and they don't even offer the manufacturer ext warranty . I got burned years ago when the underwriter insurance company of the after market ext warranty went bankrupt. When it was all said and done I got a ck for 25.00 after spending 1400.. thus now I would only consider manufacture ext warranty that they back You may be able to call the remaining balance of your warranty btw get a refund and buy the manufactures
Don’t turn off AC! This is a torture test! Make that truck work. It would suck to own a truck that you have to cook yourself in to tow heavy in the heat.
@@richardoaks3597 i would imagine they all would the way they drive them. Nobody with their own truck is going to just hold her to the floor like that they will drop a gear and let gearing do the work not strain the guts out of the motor
I would bet almost all of them will overheat on this test on a hot day near max towing. This isn't the first truck to overheat on their towing tests and certainly won't be the last.
@@Carl_Jr regularly no but a couple of times a year yes. I pull my trailer around some slow steep winding roads in peak summer heat and most people who tow for camping do this a few times a year so it is very relevant.
This should be part of your standard testing process for all pick-ups. This is a super realistic situation and I know I would be crazy upset if my $70-100k truck did not do the thing it was advertised to do.
You know what a standard test should be? Check if the company doesn't have some nefarious dealings in the background, mainly around "patents". Not going to mention any names but hint: it's Ford.
Towing max capacity up a hill for 20 minutes is not what I would call a "super realistic" situation. If you regularly need to be towing max capacity (this goes for any car), you need to move up to the next class of vehicle. In this situation, this is more suited for a F-250 or you need to be willing to take precautions such as driving slower or taking breaks. Semi's operate in much the same way. Can't load up a trailer going up a mountain pass as much as you'd load up a trailer going from Ohio to Kentucky.
I just want to say that it’s been a while since I’ve watched a FLT video. These two guys work so well together in videos. Really natural and relaxed. A real chilled vibe, conversing on things people actually care about. Great stuff.
That’s an excellent point. Neither seems interested in cutting the other off to get in a point. Sometimes I feel as if I’m watching a ping pong match of topics going back and forth while trying to navigate a topic. Andre and Case’s conversation was smooth and flowed naturally, an easy listen and watch.
While There's nothing particularly wrong with any of the previous commenter's logic here, the fact remains that the Ford overheated towing what should have been an acceptable load. You shouldn't need help from airspeed to cool a vehicle-- the fans should be able to pull enough air to properly cool the truck. I'll never forget the time my 6.0 Powerstroke went into limp mode up a grade on I-80 in 100 degree heat towing something like 5000 lbs, which should have been less than half its tow rating. The turbo seemed to cut out and all of a sudden I was at 20mph on a major interstate. That should not have happened. If these vehicles can't tow what the manual says, you neeeed to change the manual.....
You have to research and learn about towing safely before you hook up a trailer. If you try to tow a 20x30 foot sail and the truck flips over, it’s because your an id10t, not because the manual is lying.
15kWh is equivalent to 0.4 gallons of fuel. Which is amazing. The problem is the Cybertruck only holds 3.4 equivalent gallons. Thus your very valid comments about the Silverado doing better because it has a huge battery. I’m really curious to see how the range extender works, because if you need to do this kind of work regularly, you do need as much battery as possible.
Yes, it speaks to ICE efficiency vs EV efficiency. ICE engines are 20-25% efficient, EVs are 90% efficient. So when something affects motor load by 50%, that’s huge for an EV. 50% of 90% is 45% effect on range and efficiency. 50% of 20% is 10% for an ICE, so the hit to range and efficiency is not that noticeable.
In my opinion, all of the truck manufactures overrate their 1/2 ton trucks. If you are towing over 7000lbs +/-, buy an HD. As for the Cybertruck, while I am not a fan of the styling, the EV Performance was impressive.
In that sense, 1 tons from the 90s are overrated for towing, too. The only advantage a 95 chevy 3500 has over my 2015 chevy 1500 is a 14 bolt rear and stiffer spring rates. Everything else on my 15 is stronger/more capable. Both are rated for 10k lbs and weigh about 5k lbs.
@@theonly9 100% agree. I have an 88' F350 with a gas 460 /4.10 gears and PREFER towing heavier loads with my 12' F150 5.0/3.73 gears. The old F350 is rated for 12,000# and my newer F150 9300#. Just the brakes alone are lightyears ahead on the F150 and it gets significantly better mileage towing the same 8500# trailer. The F150 did come with crappy P rated tires, but installing Load Range D completely solved the "squirmy" trailer towing issue it had.
They don’t overrate it, they measure at sea level. It’s a “MAXIMUM” for a good reason and if you actually read the manual, it says to reduce tow weight going up elevation.
@13965082 only Ford does that. The test isn't performed at sea level, it consists of a series of acceleration and braking tests on level ground as well as on grade close to the maximum grade you'll find on a small rural highway.
You keep saying the cybertruck uses is a lot of energy, but it only carries about a tenth of much energy as the ford. It's actually using much, much less energy than the ford.
Exactly, it went 16 miles with 15kwh of electricity, that's the equivalent efficiency of 35.94 miles per gallon. The main limitation of electric vehicles currently is that they can only hold an equivalent energy to about 2-6 gallons of gasoline (The Cybertruck is right around 4 gallons)
and it was mentioned "it's not about the range it's about the performance and hot weather performance" but yet that's all they keep talking about is the range. The bias is why I stopped watching a few years ago and looks like why ill stop watching TFL content again.
@@erikmoore7402 I was thinking the same thing myself. The Cybertruck is extremely efficient but just doesn't have the energy density. Towing range is an issue. I love how they tout the Silverado EV, but that thing weighs over 9000 lbs and may never be produced in any significant quantity. I'm still looking forward to the Ramcharger as a potential good middle ground.
The cybertruck actually did much better than I was expecting! 20% loss really isn’t that bad when you have 66% left. *plus* you gained around 10% back from the regen going downhill. Very cool. Going to the Silverado EV video next 😂
@@jakewillits4678 then I’d buy a gas truck, like I already have. Good thing I (and most) don’t tow or travel 200+ miles that often. I just need a bed to throw appliances/furniture/junk in every once in a while
@@jakewillits4678, You stop at a lot of superchargers along the way. It's going to be a long trip either way. If it's a one-and-done kinda thing then the Cybertruck will do fine and you'll just have more rest stops along the way. If it's a several times a year trip for you, then an EV truck is not the right tool for the job.
Fun fact: the Ecoboost does not have a coolant temp sensor. It calculates coolant temp using an algorithm that uses cylinder head temp and charge air temp as the key inputs. Also that Mercon ULV transmission fluid can handle much higher temps than the older fluids. 250 is still within safe operating temp for the new 10 speeds. Low engine speed + boost + low air flow = high engine temps. Throw in high ambient temp and altitude on top and a lot of trucks will struggle with cooling. Really curious now how the new Ram hurricane I6 would do on this test.
I'm a mechanic at a Cadillac dealership and we get a lot of those 10 speeds in with valve body issues. I'm not sure how much is the same between the Ford and GM variants, but I do know that just to set the fluid level, the temp has to be between 167 and 176 degrees which is monsterous compared to the 6/9 speed and 8 speed fluids GM uses. Those are at like 120 or less
@@theconfused_fisherman my understanding is they are identical on the inside with the only difference being the outer case and the programming. They are just manufactured separately by each company so there could be different material quality and processes. I know in 2022 ford redesigned a bushing in the CDF drum that was a known failure point. As an owner of 2 2023 Fords with 10 speeds I can verify they have resolved the early issues and they shift smooth and fast.
Racing with a 10 speed in my 2019 Mustang GT it would routinely get over 200 degrees. I think the highest I saw was about 230 degrees. The transmission didn’t care and it didn’t affect anything. That was racing it in 118 degrees in Phoenix. I remember when reaching over 200 degrees on a transmission meant you were overheating it.
Poor Ford people. All that anger trolling Ram videos and this is not the first time they have bit the dust. The fact that they not only have an aluminum truck but also have by far the biggest budget is sad, RIP
@@BloodAlwaysFindsItsLevel was I trolling Ram somehow? I was just stating a fact about the 3.5 ecoboost. I’m genuinely curious how the new hurricane would perform in this scenario since it is another boosted 6 in a half ton and is new on the market. This is a tough test and the half tons they’ve done this with have had various temp issues.
Nothing too strange here, in Australia when you setup a vehicle for heavy towing we fit aftermarket oil coolers, the factory supplied ones tend to overheat easily when towing a few ton or if doing sand driving in the summer.
In America, you’re supposed to use higher rated trucks for the job being shown. If you’re using all of your rated towing capacity at 5,000-10,000 ft altitude, you’re probably picked the wrong truck in the first place. The factory set up is adequate at sea level. This is a deliberate torture test.
@@matthewgaines10only on ford. They’re the only ones that say you have to reduce the weight at elevation. The other manufacturers don’t have that stipulation with their tow ratings.
That’s because the rest of the world is more practical and pragmatic than America. The rest of the world determines the issues and rectifies it, meanwhile in the states they just suggest you buy a 3000kg truck with a 7.0L V8. It’s part of the consumer mindset, don’t bother fixing the issue when you could just buy a newer, bigger, better one!
@@richardoaks3597though there may not be stipulations in other owners manuals, you're likely to get the same results with the same test with other trucks.
Before watching this video, I was thinking it might be the Cybertruck's motors. F150 struggled mightily. Cybertruck didn't care. Wow. That's a surprising result actually. Thanks for doing this real world test guys, because people actually do these things out in the real world and this is good information. Cybertruck gains some respect in my book.
Guys, air density matters for removing heat through a radiator just like it matters for your power output. As altitude increases, air density decreases, which is why they say to not tow as much at altitude.
@@OtisFlint Not really, most (all?) manufacturers have an equation for calculating towing capacity for higher elevation and temps. TFL overheated a 6.2L Silverado last year doing this same test if I'm not mistaken. Overheated the oil *and* coolant from what I remember
Air density in regards to power output doesn't matter as much with a turbo, it'll literally compensate for that, the waste gate will spool the turbo until it's giving the proper boost.
@@Joshcheyka Power output is not the issue, it's radiator cooling efficiency which takes a hit as there's less air molecules for unit of volume for that heat exchange to take place.
I mean you're also talking the base engine that they are pushing to it's limits. The Cyber truck base has a higher tow rating then a F-150 with the base engine.
There was a lot of comment about how much kWh were consumed but at no time did they mention the Ford getting 5.1 MPG. Also it seems that the video shots were showing the Ford going up the hill going slower so they were "pushing" the Tesla to do more work to cover the same distance.
Fair points. If they wanted to compare Range then they should have gone same speed and said how far the Ford would be able to go on a full tank, under these conditions. I'm also not sure if they were still towing on the way down, which would effect the regen gain. But this vid was focused on performance.
You mean the over-loaded Ford warned-overheated? shocking revelation! Trailer est: 10500lbs (note: TFL did not give data on weight distribution hitch final load) Specs: 2024 Tremor - 3.5 ecoboost, 3.73 rear, payload max: ~1420 max tow: 10,200, GCVW: 17,100lbs Looked like the payload limit was just over 1430lbs and just with Andre and the trailer, the onboard scale went red. Now add two more people for filming. Then add the elevation derating for elevation that ford provides in the Towing guide. Truck payload overloaded, towing is at or over max for truck, then add the elevation and both payload and towing are overload. Ford gives towing derating number for good reason, physics. All other trucks are subject to the same physics but they don't tell you this. If you read the towing guide it says this number is used to estimate driving conditions without elevation, so they are prewarning you that elevation will be harder on your vehicle and towing capability. And giving you a guide to estimate new limits at a given elevation. Put any truck at it's limits and it will do the same thing.
Truck payload was red because the load wasn’t in the right spot; they adjust the position of the load so it is green with everyone inside before they start towing as they have demonstrated in many other videos, they just didn’t film it this time. I don’t know about the tow rating, but my guess is that the monroney they have either gives a higher rating or they just rounded up on the video to keep it simple. They are very good about staying within rated limits (except for elevation deductions), and are pretty clear the times when they go over the ratings (either intentionally or accidentally).
Lol elevation doesn't matter to the Cybertruck, so your "any truck" only applies to every truck that isn't a cybertruck, also it's just the two of them. They have GoPros mounted to the windshield.
There’s a couple in our RV group that was shocked their new F150 ECOboost continued to overheat during our California Arizona rally. Most of us had V8s and Diesels and had no issues.
Turbos are such a liability on daily use petrol vehicles where they are often used as a crutch. Outside of an e.g. HD class diesel truck or professional big rig, or sportscar, you shouldn't need them. If you do, you got a substandard product.
Here in the US because of how they do the emissions testing and how they do the CO2 calculations The manufacturers are literally forced into it. @@N4CR
@@richfarfugnuven6308also the cooling systems on the SuperDuty are higher capacity. It's typically what is see towing this kind of load in any situation.
I don't understand these trucks now. I have a 2019 Nissan Titan gasser and I pull regularly up kangaroo lake, steep switchbacks averaging 20 to 30 mph with and 8100 lb. Forest River and a polaris in the bed......it revs and does its thing but never skips a beat, no temp issues......it just doesn't care. Such an underrated truck!
Just 2 hours ago we came from our vacation trip. Titan xd v8 doesn't care. 4 kids, wife and me. Close to 7+k trailer and whole bunch of other stuff. It just does it. Revs high when needed but does the job... We did same thing with our Armada no problem, just does it.
So you guys really emphasized HOW MUCH energy the CT used….but in the wrong way. The fair conversion between the heat energy per mpg of gasoline vs mile per kwh is about a factor of 40. So while that 150 was at 7.4 mpg on the screen… the CT was at an equivalent 12.3 mpge uphill and 42.7 mpge round trip with the regen going downhill recaptured. CT would used WAY LESS energy than the 150. The fair way to compare these two would be like the CT having a tiny gas tank and just using a higher percentage of its energy but efficiency wise it totally destroyed the 150
People care more about how far they can go in an EV since it takes so long to charge vs having to buy an extra few gallons at the pump (which takes almost no time at all).
He didn't demonstrate it well, it has a detent when opening that will stop it short of half way so it won't hit a hitch that is set up closer to the bumper.
When driving EV, you're always mentioning "how far it can tow". Why not provide the same info for a gas car? What was consumption of the F-150? How many gallons consumed vs. how much fuel it carries?
Probably because there are gas stations just about everywhere and it only takes a couple of minutes to fill up.. vs fewer places to charge an electric vehicle and having to sit and wait for it to recharge.
@@pat86able I did not see a gas station on the climb. And a gas vehicle needs gas to drive down as well, so it would be nice to know the fuel consumption. If not for knowing how much fuel there needs to be in the tank, then for comparison of cost. Also: just because there's an ATM every 500 meters, doesn't mean you can spend more money.
I just times the tank capacity by the mpg shown 161 miles the cyber truck was going twice the speed up most of the hill so their is the spare time for recharging.
I didn't pay too much attention to it but at one point in the video it showed the Ford's display and it was at 6.3 mpg. No idea if that was average, current, overall, if it got better, got worse??? Seems about right though, no way any reasonable person would think towing 10k lbs uphill is going to net you 21 mpg. (I say that but we all know there's some doofus out there expecting it)
If they got the same 5mpg that they got while going up hill the entire time, the Ford would drive about 150 miles in those conditions (assuming it didn’t blow up, which it obviously would have since it severely overheated twice in 8 miles). I don’t know what size gas tank it has and I don’t care to look it up, but I’m guessing 30 gallons. The Cybertruck was getting about 3100Wh/m or 0.32 mi/kwh. That means, with a 120kWh battery, it would go about 38 miles. Not great, but that’s because 120kWh is less than 4 gallons of gas. If the F150 only had 4 gallons of gas, it wouldn’t even make it a single mile under those conditions. (30 gallons of gas is equivalent to about 1,011kWh of energy)
@@BumbleBeeJBG I decided to take you up on the offer, and it is with great pride I have completed my study. I've got a peer reviewed study right here that says *checks notes* 'you missed the point of the video'.
The point was to compare gas vs electric, not Ford vs Tesla. I’m sure they just used the Cybertruck because it was an electric truck that they already own vs having to try to borrow both F150s from Ford at the same time.
Let’s be honest: if you spent that amount of money on a half ton truck and you’re planning on towing that much weight…even somewhat regularly…you’ve already made some serious financial mistakes. 😅 ALSO, look at the RPMs they’re hauling up those grades. 2,000 rpms? This isn’t a Cummins, it’s a tiny lil V-6 gasser. Get those rpms up and I doubt you’d have overheating problems.
You're forgetting that they were driving the F-150 really slowly. It took 51 minutes when the Tesla took 24. To get the RPM up they'd have to be in first gear while driving that slowly.
I don't think you understand thermal dynamics. If you gear down and make the engine rev higher, that will generate more heat, not less. Sorry to inform you that a V6 is not well suited to hauling heavy loads up a steep grade.
@@surferdude4487 ah, okay. I guess I’ll just keep my 5500 at 1500 rpms going up a steep mountain grade next time I’m pulling a 30,000 load cause apparently you know what you’re talking about.
Problem with the ecoboost is the turbos are also water cooled just adding to the heat in the coolant so towing max in high heat up a mountain is just asking for trouble
@@ryansheard8092 yeah i just noticed my ecoboost towing vs my v8 or my diesel the water temp skyrockets unusually fast. I put aftermarket fans and a manual fan switch in so miles before hills i will run them and get it down to 165 or so before the climb. Seemed to help
Watercooled turboes are not the problem, just add a bigger watercooler. Not cooling the turboes with water is going to cook the oil in the turboes instead and that will be going back to the engine anyway.
@@larsjrgensen5975 you dont need to add a bigger radiator just bigger fans. And thats not true because diesels don't use water cooled and it doesn't cook the oil and they see temps up to 1000 degrees. I said the water temp just spikes faster with more elements heating it. I wasnt arguing oil temp i was talking about water temp itself
@@Stale_Kracker fixing it with more powerful fans or changing the aircooler both fixes the problem, all good. The turbo bearing part needs cooling, if not using water the turbo will use the oil as cooling instead. After the oil has soaked up heat from the turbo the oil goes back to the engine with the turbo heat. Water cooling or not makes no real difference, the heat still goes back to the engine unless the turbo has its own cooling system. If the turbo heats the engine up with hot oil the watercooler cooling the engine is still going to rise to dangerous levels, the turbo heat does not disappear.
@@davidporter7051 OK sure. I've never seen a V8 rev at 6000 constantly while towing (unless of course massively overloaded) but I guess you must have seen differently.
@@ThunderandLightningEvPickupThese whiners bitch about how trucks are work vehicles, for average joes, too expensive etc and then refuse to buy a work truck trim. For being “real” people who just need a utility vehicle, they sure spend lots of time looking at tremors, king ranches, high country etc.
I have a GMC Sierra 2500 6.0 and when heavy towing it,would over heat just past 225 and what I ended doing was buying a 160 termostat and it solved my problems towing the same grade were it would over heat it’s just over 198.
Cybertruck has more range than F150 in this scenario? Ford: 5,1mpg / 23Gallons = 117miles range Cybertruck: 15kwh in 15,6 miles /123kwh = 128 miles range Am i missing something??
@@mxer652 Ah, good point. But i get different Infos on that. Seems that 23 (or 26 or 30??) is standart and there is a 36 Option? That would put it to 183 Miles.
yeah everyone loves to point out range loss on EV's towing but not range lost on Gas vehicles towing. i saw a report once and they are almost identical percentage wise. which makes sense its all physics.
Love seeing Granger as a sponsor. Buying a truck from them was the best experience and price. There is a reason people are willing to travel thousands of miles to buy from them.
My ford ranger was attached to the space shuttle and used to crawl the surface of the moon. Got attacked by aliens with lasers who took me and my Ranger and threw it from the moon to the earth, the impact was hard, but beside a little chip on my paint it started right up and drove me to the 7eleven for a big gulp as the re entry was a little warm, still have this truck to this day. We use it to tow semi’s that have broke down in the highway, and sometimes go to drive over old land mine areas of the world to set them off for the village folk there.- built Ford Tough, Ford Ranger
Great for short range and frequent use. Bad for long range. If you need to drive more than 200 miles a day, use a diesel. If you need to tow more than 80 miles a day, diesel, unless you have somewhere to charge like a job site for 8 hours. ;)
@@davidbeppler3032 cyber truck can charge 10-80% in 44 minutes. you could easily drive 2 hours and charge while you eat and piss and continue on and do that a couple times. i think if you wanted to do over 500miles a day on a schedule towing the diesel might make sense.
@@3184Patrick You missed the important word. "Can" Sure, if everything works out right and you have a Tesla supercharger exactly 86 miles with a full load. Charge for 10 min and do another 70 miles. Not sure how you could do 500 miles in a day... but sure. Just charge several times a day. You could do it. It would save you a lot of money too.
I have had my CT for 5 months (5000 miles) now and besides not being able to tow far it is an amazing vehicle despite the what the media is trying to sell you. I only need to tow my UTV trailer every once in a while and is better than my Raptor in everything else besides range. Sad the most American made truck gets so much hate.
It was so refreshing to hear an unbiased review/experience. I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation too. Pls don't become salesmen on RUclips even if you do take sponsorships. Great video
I was not expecting the cybertruck to do so well in this test while being so efficient. If you can get over the styling and tow a few times a year, it seems like a decent choice to me.
I appreciate the unbiased objective review and test of the two trucks. And it's also gratifying to see that the Cybertruck's frame does actually survive towing to its capacity. Over on WhistlingDiesel they ripped the hitch and a healthy chunk of the frame off their Cybertruck trying to haul a stuck F150 off of logs it high-centered on. They were being far more brutal with both their trucks, though, and had probably had exceeded the load rating on that hitch by an order of magnitude.
You should see his newest video. The witness claiming the hitch snapped towing a boat is pretty damning that a pothole might destroy the hitch on a CT.
Would be interesting to see an f150 with the max tow setup. 2024 tremer doesn't have the larger radiator given with the max tow. The larger radiator also comes with the powerboost.
Seems to be the norm when towing heavy like this with the 3.5EB . Definitely not a Powertrain I would ever choose for that sort of work. I have Seen these EB 3.5L overheat like this a lot when pressed / worked really hard like seen in this test. Would really love to see the same test with a gas v8 , I know the lack of Turbo is not ideal for power, but not near as prone to overheating like the small displacement turbo v6.
My 2023 F-150 XL 5.0 STX 4wd supercrew was over 30k less money than that Tremor and a lot of truck by comparison, but my 2011 3.5 Ecoboost F-150 XL HDPP std cab long bed will crush it in every meaningful way towing, payload, acceleration, braking and simplicity (despite the twin turbos). Never had a problem with overheating the 3.5 Ecoboost, and I towed heavy loads thru Arizona and Texas in the summer on I-8/10. I did have to downshift manually to keep the engine in the sweet spot but it just ran and ran (10k 24' box trailer). The 5.0 actually gets slightly mileage and sounds better though.
@snazzerbear I've had the 5.0 and the 3.5 within the past 5 years and put tons of miles and towing on both in TX. The 3.5L is so far superior in every way in the things that matter it's no comparison. The thought that the 3.5 overheated because it's a small displacement TT V6 is smashed by the Silverado 1500 V8 that overheated. The grade and elevation they towed that trailer up doesn't exist in most places. That truck performed quite well. As a mechanical designer, I laugh at people who think that a V8 is just better because, well, it's a V8. It's so uneducated.
With the comment about the lack of fan noise, I wonder if the cooling fans are spooling up like they're supposed to at higher temps. Wonder if an engine warning or code light would pop up if they didn't? Maybe something to check with the service laptop. Never know.
No, I didn't read all the comments below, so this may have been covered already BUT, what about all the regen braking putting power back into the battery when going down hill? I towed an 18' camp trailer through all 48 states in 2021 with my Model Y duel motor and loved the regen braking in the mountains. I drove west out of Denver to Utah on I70 and used a lot of battery going up over the summit but had almost 3/4 charge put back into the battery when I got out of the mountains!
They showed that at the end. The energy usage going up hill was horrible at nearly 3.4Kwh per mile. But after coming back down, the regen put so much back that the average usage for the entire trip was only around 0.940Kwh per mile.
Thank you for more coverage of cybertruck awd vs other $80k premium trucks. The blend of offroad capability and payload/towing capacities make these some of the best trims to select. Tremor, ZR2/AT4, Rebel, TRD-Pro.... that is the cybertruck AWD direct competition. Cybertruck towing software is due for a OTA update for opportunities you mentioned: saving trailer profiles, hitch alignment, camera views, powertrain/coolant temperatures, axle scales. Tesla needs to integrate trailer camera & TPMS and telescopic tow mirrors for accessories. I also wonder how using navigation destinations would help it predict future power/cooling needs. Could it preventively lower coolant temperatures before a high load in the form of thermal energy buffer?
Cybertruck is totally due for an update, there's so many useful things they can add: Larger steering ratio when towing (Steer by wire allows them to adjust this through software) and the stuff you said. I'm sure Tesla will come up with other cool/useful things as they've done for their other vehicles.
My expedition with ecoboost overheated transmission. It got so hot coolant lines exploded. Cost $2,000 in repairs at Ford. Year later 10 speed failed. $6,000 replacement.
Fomoco does lead ALL automotive oems in warranty costs and recalls per vehicle sold. 😀 And I've owned over a dozen new Ford's and many more used ones so I'd know. 🙂
@@4literv6 Hogwash! What Dealers do (happened to me) is they claim can't replicate problem) Happened with my F250 6.0L going into limp mode up hells towing my RV (well under towing max)... After the 3rd time and more denials, I traded it for RAM with the Cummins and never had an issue towing again. Of course we learned about had bad those 6.0L's were while Ford initially said it was fine...
We did a spur-of-the-moment drive up to Mt Evans and were wondering if we would have enough juice left to make it down to Idaho Springs to supercharge on the way home to Denver. Shouldn't have worried. On the way down the mountain we regenerated enough energy to drive directly home to Denver to charge up in our own garage.
It's just my experience, but every time I see someone towing with a light duty truck, they drive like it's a car with no trailer at all. I've got a 2017 eco 3.5 and pull a 30' camper loaded with water and anything my wife can find to put in it and never have overheating issues. Was just towing in 96° heat the last week.
It only overheated because of the massively steep grade at high elevation. That grade is probably 12% or so I'd assume which is insane. Yes, towing 11K lbs on a flat or even slightly inclined surface in the heat wouldn't have the same affect.
@joefries7046 yeah, the biggest take away is that 99.9% of people watching this channel will ever put their 1/2 ton truck through anything close to that and so they will never experience "overheating". Also, that trucks coolant reduced the temp almost immediately upon reducing power a bit. It performed exceptionally well overall.
This is exactly what my 2014 F150 3.5 Ecoboost used to do. Had to be really careful towing my 5500 lb travel trailer here in Utah if it was over 80* out. I had to upgrade the intercooler, radiator and add an external oil cooler to get it to stay cool. And by cool, I mean keep the coolant below 230*
@@tylerking27 Changing your thermostat doesn't prevent you from hitting 240F coolant temps. If my 190F thermostat is wide open at 210F and I still get up to 240F, why would one that's wide open at 180F change anything other than maybe delay it slightly. When you are pulling a 7% grade for 10 minutes, that small delay is pretty meaningless. The problem is Ford's cooling system cannot reject enough heat. Whether its the size of the radiator or the electric fans, its not able to shed enough heat to keep the coolant at the thermostat temperature in the first place. Lowering the temperature of the thermostat doesnt change that. The only way to fix it is by adding more cooling capacity via a larger radiator and an oil cooler.
@@Jay-me7gw if it opens earlier then the coolant doesn’t get a chance to get as hot because it is flowing and being cooled by fans. Maybe you’re not as smart as you think k you are because it has worked for many people for a long time. It does help slightly in real world towing….
@@tylerking27 Heat in needs to equal heat out. Thats it. A thermostat doesnt change heat out. If it needs to get to 250F to balance heat in vs heat out, its going to get to 250F no matter what thermostat you use. Maybe its worked for you, but out west where the grades are huge, it doesnt work. I can be climbing a steep grade for 15+ minutes at 65mph. A cooler thermostat isnt doing shit in that situation.
Since most construction operators would be using at least a 3\4 ton truck to tow that up, there would be interesting to see what a 7.3 Godzilla would do compared to that F150 and cyber truck
You think Aluminum warps at 250 degrees? The engine derates specifically to prevent any damage; the mechanical parts are fine, but the coolant took some abuse and likely smells burnt now.
@@Cloud30000 My 5.0 Coyote Mustang regularly runs 220° F in the summer when idling and in slow traffic. Has the oil cooler and Boss radiator too. Was at 210 today on the highway. im sure going up that hill without a trailer would get really hot.
@@302Mustang13 I almost freaked out the first time I decided to look at my c7 corvettes coolant temp in the summer and it was running between 220-230. But come to find out that's completely normal and the fan wont even kick on into its highest setting until 235. Almost all newer cars (at least American v8 cars) run 210 or more for emissions reasons and can easily run up to 240 without issues. From my other older sports cars I was used to 190ish being the norm and 220 being the absolute highest you would really ever see before coolant started spewing out of the radiator.
I can't wait for battery technology to get to the point where you can drive like this for 100's of miles with no issues. Just goes to show the biggest factor at the moment is the battery density.
3.5 EB, makes the power and torque at low rpm but also uses engine coolant to cool the engine, transmission, engine oil and turbos. Under heavy stress it doesn't have enough rpm for coolant flow for max cooling. This is why in my 3.5 EB Transit I've taken the transmission cooling and separated it from the engine with a Derale fan assisted cooler under the van. The other thing you should be doing is manually shifting and running higher rpm, like 3k plus.
If Tesla can increase the range on these trucks by 50% with a better battery they would be highly desirable across a lot of use cases. As they are the truck still has a lot going for it. I think CT will become very popular truck.
My RAM 2500 diesel tows my 9000 pound trailer across the country, in the summer heat, up thru the Rockies and the temp gauges barely move from when I’m driving in the flatlands. I get between 11-13 MPG while towing. When not towing, I get close to 21 MPG. If you’re gonna tow, get a 3/4 or 1 ton diesel and don’t bother screwing around with either of these things.
Agree with your choice of vehicle to do this type of work, but just like the EV you loose 50% of your range when towing. Range loss is similar, it’s the refueling speed that is the issue.
Although some of your other comparisons are not appropriate, this slow speed, high temp towing is awesome!!! I've run into this scenario on a truck in the mountains of N. C. Please add this test when evaluating other trucks. Of course, timing is everything, and if the weather doesn't cooperate, then I wouldn't waste your time. But if it's hot, will definitely want to see this test over the IKE gauntlet one. Thanks guys
Could never figure out why Ford removed transmission coolers from the F150. I’d like to see Ford, Chevy, Dodge and Toyota make that climb and see how they compare
Viva Colorado as the torture test for trucks and altitude! I live here (in Denver) and very often tow horses up and across the Rockies. These videos are invaluable! These guys have a great book on trucks and their ratings. What they often refer to as the 'Ike Gauntlet' is taking a truck from Denver altitude... Famously 5280... and within about 60 minutes you are crossing the top of the Rockies through the Eisenhower tunnel which is 11,500 feet. At that altitude, it's damn near winter year round. Then... You get to test braking as you head down into Dillon, which feels like you are dropping off a cliff. It's so steep a descent that you can't use brakes if towing. You have to gear down and use engine braking.
Range will always be an issue in the Cybertruck but the more I see it the more I’m impressed with it. Elon needs to apply this power train to a more conventionally styled truck with more battery capacity and it might be an option for many people
This is the first time they're ramping production. They could of made a 500, 600 hell 700 mile version BUT... that would add massive complexity and strain on 4680 production which are in very early stages and don't even use the dry electrode technique (This will be done by the end of this year and boost range by 10%-15%). Once they've got 4680 cells in a good state and cybertruck in mass production at the end of this year... it won't be too long until we get that 500 mile Cybertruck.
Sounds like a good start but styling is still going to be an issue for many ( I would say most) people. I know it’s early so perhaps this is already being addressed. I also hear they are considering allowing other cars to charge at the super chargers. This I feel would be a mistake as most chargers I’ve seen are pretty taxed with existing Teslas already. Time will tell.
@@troybockhop1351 Those people can buy a Ford Lightning. Why should Tesla steal 100% of the market? Let people have a choice. They can pick the best truck, Tesla Cybertruck or the one they think is pretty, the Ford Lightning. :)
No point having a big flat front with a 95% efficiant electric motor better to drop the drag cd for more range less noise and better visibility for not running over children. with the silverado ev battery in the cyber truck it would go 50% further than the slab fronted conventionally styled silverado ev.
Dang, the idea that you had for the cybertruck with the rear view mirror also being a camera is brilliant. You should definitely give them a tip for the Next Generation. That would be so sick if they did that and I don't think I've ever seen that done so they would be leading the way. Genius, pure genius
My 2019 Chevy Bolt had a rear view mirror camera from the factory…in a car that cost me $28k new after discounts. Plus it was actually designed so that I could see out the rear window. Tesla hasn’t lead the way in anything for at least 5 years, they’re definitely lagging way behind at this point.
I'm disappointed that you didn't talk about the trip down the hill with the regenerative braking all the way. Half of the energy consumed going up the hill was replaced going down the hill. How much of that energy was replaced in the gas truck? None!
It has the equivalent to less than 3.5 gallons worth of road diesel or about 4 gallons of gas in its battery is why. 123kwhs total and road diesel is 37.9kwhs per gallon in total energy capacity and gasoline per the epa is 33.7kwhs per gallon. The next gen dry cathode 4680 cells should boost it another 10-15% And the range extender will make it about 500 miles when empty. Prob 220-250 miles when towing 1-100% by next year. And the v4 scers will get it down to 150-180 miles of range back in 15-20mins charging. Is it as good as gas or diesel? Yes and in some ways vastly superior when not towing and using it locally for daily driving duties. Which is what 90+% of ALL personal use pickups do anyway. But on road trips and towing duties? Gas or diesel still wins sometimes.
This is why I don't understand why Ford doesn't take their hybrids more seriously. All they need is a super efficient generator completely decoupled from the drivetrain
@@thedopplereffect00 There are problems with running an engine as a pure generator and not connecting it to the drivetrain. You have to have a much larger battery than you would otherwise need because you have to give yourself a very large buffer at the bottom of the battery to handle large loads. On cars this isn't a *huge* deal because they're not really under large extended loads, but even then, the couple of Series hybrids that have been sold in the US have been known to go into Reduced Propulsion mode when climbing large grades with low state of charge.... The engine just can't make the electricity, store it, and convert it to propulsion fast enough or efficiently enough to keep the vehicle moving at a high rate of speed, under load, or otherwise undesirable circumstances. You put a pure series system in a truck, you have to account for towing its max capacity behind it, up a grade, and you could be in for a rough time on long uphill grades. The only real way around this would be to use a massive battery, and then only make like 50% of it available to the user so you have a large buffer to handle those situations (or I guess you could make it a software toggle with a Towing mode) Then if you have a smaller battery, have the engine running as much as possible, and don't use it as a Plug-In to lower the price, your fuel economy just isn't good. Around town it will beat the pants off of a non-hybrid or even a parallel hybrid system.... But, as soon as you get onto the highway and are at a sustained high rate of speed for a length of time or towing, your fuel economy is going to be measurably worse than a non-hybrid or parallel hybrid. This is why systems that can do both parallel and serial operation are arguably the best (Toyota Planetary Power Split for example)
Great vid ! Only question that wasn't covered was how about the ability to accelerate in the Cube vs the ford, you had the Ford floored at points, but could you always accelerate the trailer with the cybertruck?
I've always been suspicious of tow ratings on these new half tons. My old F150 is rated around 7500 pounds and now they are saying these things can do 13k with one radiator/ transmission cooler. And now they are forcing tons of heat into these engines with turbos and smaller footprints for coolant to flow.
I agree, I think it's a marketing thing. Even your old F-150 could tow 10k lbs - just not for very long and it wouldn't be good for it. Same with these trucks, they should be rated much lower.
Ive personally seen someone slam their tailgate down on a trailer jack because "they can do it with their trailer" but they werent using their trailer.
Full capacity towing with the AC on uphill of course it will overheat but I’m impressed that it kept going while it overheated and you were not even worried about damage.
I agree not the best trim, but if it's rated for it it should be ok to do. Unfortunately the manufacturers are not always trustworthy in my opinion. I personally own a 22 tremor and would never attempt it.
If I were towing up a washboard road, I would like to engage locking differentials. It’s great that the CyberTruck does so many thing automatically, but some manual overrides would be nice.
The f150 isn't engineered for that. Manual says to reduce max tow weight in those conditions. Why would you be surprised it overheats? Reminds me of when you put low octane gas in the 7.3 Ike run. Manual stated not to, but you did anyway. What was the payload numbers?
Ive owned dodges forever had the cummins the v6 "wt" and my latest truck a 2500 HD 5.7 (this was the cheapest HD I could find in 2018). I used both the larger ones for towing and quite often tip the scales from 18000 to 25000 lbs in total . I only tow about 50 miles or so in any one day. Im updating to the new Cybertruck beast , it should be more than adequate I will be done with fuels for good. enjoyed this video the dual motor still takes off like a bullet , tows great and handled the hill with no overheating of the battery. The recoup was substantial which makes a difference in the real world with hills. I take my M3 to the mountains and it takes about 1/2 the energy to get home as it does going up but ive never had a regin of the battery that quickly. you can bet with normal towing even heavy loads this will make a giant difference in range. Thanks for a great video guys.
I think this slow speed with max tow would give most trucks a fit. The same load up the Ike they would be much cooler. Still, it'd be interesting to see the other ice trucks do the same load on the same day. That's the most important thing that they are all tested on the same day with the exact same low.
When setting up the wdh, it's best to install the bars before adding tongue weight to the truck. Pre load the bars, then drop the weight onto the truck. The wdh are rugged and designed to help carry the load.
Not sure it makes much of a difference either way. Tow capacities are kind of based on the truck/trailer bouncing around, dropping the hitch while parked isn't going to overload anything?
The heat and the grade are 100% the factor. Also, the tremor isnt their "tow" trim. I have a 21 powerboost lariat and towed about 11k lbs from Cincinnati to Chicago with no issues. I averaged 12 mpg too, thanks to the Livernois tune.
Towing on flat ground is vastly different than towing on a hill. This truck would probably have been fine towing on flat ground. They mentioned they towed the same trailer to the hill with the F150 with no issue. The problem is that most of the world isn’t flat. Towing steep grades is a requirement for many, many people. The F150 simply isn’t capable of towing near its max capacity on hills.
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Paid $4500 for extended warranty from EG Assurance company. When I had a claim, they wanted a mechanic’s report that I had to pay for before any repairs were authorized. Would take days to even begin. Got tired of the runaround and gave up which is what they wanted. Never again. Hopefully your experience is better.
@donbrloks3959 I mean how else would they know what's covered and how much they're gonna pay?
aftermarket oil cooler rad with fan, then if you want it to be even more cooler add a bypass oil filter that way the oil filter is seperate from the vechile and can cool faster instead of also catching heat from surrounding units like manifolds, and the engine itself. the oil will be circulating instead outside the engine inside the hoses that lead to a oil cooler rad style and then around to the oil filter and into the engine. by the time the oil does all that it will cool down by alot and keep staying cool.
Why are you guys shilling for ev? You're acting like the cyber truck is practical at anything.
@@donbrloks3959only purchase manufacturer ext warranty otherwise you have to play their games . Often the dealers want push what ever brand there gonna make the most commissions from and they don't even offer the manufacturer ext warranty . I got burned years ago when the underwriter insurance company of the after market ext warranty went bankrupt. When it was all said and done I got a ck for 25.00 after spending 1400.. thus now I would only consider manufacture ext warranty that they back
You may be able to call the remaining balance of your warranty btw get a refund and buy the manufactures
Don’t turn off AC! This is a torture test! Make that truck work. It would suck to own a truck that you have to cook yourself in to tow heavy in the heat.
I agree
guys call a spade a spade. you pushed that ford too far
Cooled seats still use the AC compressor to cycle refrigerant if I understand the system correctly.
@@LTdesign13 Wrong, the seats use a TED unit. Nothing to do with the A/C
Gotcha. Thanks for the info!
Has this always been the case? We have a 2010 F150 I'm wondering if it uses the same system.
F150 is the one that overheated if anyone was wondering
Ford always fail on this channel. Toyota was the first time I’ve seen something other than a ford fail.
thank you for sharing. what a joke..
@@JohnDoe-nz6bkChevy failed doing this same test last year.
they picked an off road trim there are better trims more suited for towing this test is crap.
@@JohnDoe-nz6bkyou mean like the time the 6.2L Silverado had the transmission overheat and go into limp mode?
Need to tow every half ton on the market with this trailer setup and see who’s overheating and who isn’t.
Probably too many variations to really do a comprehensive test.
Let's be real. Anyone who buys a 1/2 ton and expects it to do this, regularly, bought the wrong truck.
@@richardoaks3597 i would imagine they all would the way they drive them. Nobody with their own truck is going to just hold her to the floor like that they will drop a gear and let gearing do the work not strain the guts out of the motor
I would bet almost all of them will overheat on this test on a hot day near max towing. This isn't the first truck to overheat on their towing tests and certainly won't be the last.
@@Carl_Jr regularly no but a couple of times a year yes. I pull my trailer around some slow steep winding roads in peak summer heat and most people who tow for camping do this a few times a year so it is very relevant.
This should be part of your standard testing process for all pick-ups. This is a super realistic situation and I know I would be crazy upset if my $70-100k truck did not do the thing it was advertised to do.
You know what a standard test should be? Check if the company doesn't have some nefarious dealings in the background, mainly around "patents". Not going to mention any names but hint: it's Ford.
A huge amount of people don't tow in the mountains lol.
It's 36k for a v6 F-150
@@MichaelLynch-j9y Go find a brand new F150 that can tow 10,000lbs for 36K.
Towing max capacity up a hill for 20 minutes is not what I would call a "super realistic" situation. If you regularly need to be towing max capacity (this goes for any car), you need to move up to the next class of vehicle. In this situation, this is more suited for a F-250 or you need to be willing to take precautions such as driving slower or taking breaks.
Semi's operate in much the same way. Can't load up a trailer going up a mountain pass as much as you'd load up a trailer going from Ohio to Kentucky.
It just proves 1/2 ton tow ratings are too high. Really they are good for about 6-7000 lbs. Anymore get a HD.
I’m betting an HD truck near GCWR on this test in that heat would be suffering some similar effects.
I tow that with my '03 Explorer (yes it's rated for it) through the Mojave desert at 117F. 9-10K is absolutely reasonably for a half ton.
Ford has magical towing dust. All marketing bull.😂
But But, on TV it pulled a jet...
@@supersnot4 reasonable in the right conditions.
I just want to say that it’s been a while since I’ve watched a FLT video. These two guys work so well together in videos. Really natural and relaxed. A real chilled vibe, conversing on things people actually care about. Great stuff.
That’s an excellent point. Neither seems interested in cutting the other off to get in a point. Sometimes I feel as if I’m watching a ping pong match of topics going back and forth while trying to navigate a topic. Andre and Case’s conversation was smooth and flowed naturally, an easy listen and watch.
While There's nothing particularly wrong with any of the previous commenter's logic here, the fact remains that the Ford overheated towing what should have been an acceptable load. You shouldn't need help from airspeed to cool a vehicle-- the fans should be able to pull enough air to properly cool the truck. I'll never forget the time my 6.0 Powerstroke went into limp mode up a grade on I-80 in 100 degree heat towing something like 5000 lbs, which should have been less than half its tow rating. The turbo seemed to cut out and all of a sudden I was at 20mph on a major interstate. That should not have happened. If these vehicles can't tow what the manual says, you neeeed to change the manual.....
😂😂...as Andrea said, the manual says to reduce tow capacity based on elevation. So, seems like the manual is correct.
If you read the manual, it says reduce tow weight at elevation 🙄
You have to research and learn about towing safely before you hook up a trailer. If you try to tow a 20x30 foot sail and the truck flips over, it’s because your an id10t, not because the manual is lying.
"shouldn't need airflow to cool a truck"????? That is literally how engines work dummy
I wonder what would jave happened if some overdrive gears were locked out, eg 10, 9 and 8
15kWh is equivalent to 0.4 gallons of fuel. Which is amazing. The problem is the Cybertruck only holds 3.4 equivalent gallons. Thus your very valid comments about the Silverado doing better because it has a huge battery. I’m really curious to see how the range extender works, because if you need to do this kind of work regularly, you do need as much battery as possible.
Yes, it speaks to ICE efficiency vs EV efficiency. ICE engines are 20-25% efficient, EVs are 90% efficient. So when something affects motor load by 50%, that’s huge for an EV. 50% of 90% is 45% effect on range and efficiency. 50% of 20% is 10% for an ICE, so the hit to range and efficiency is not that noticeable.
In my opinion, all of the truck manufactures overrate their 1/2 ton trucks. If you are towing over 7000lbs +/-, buy an HD. As for the Cybertruck, while I am not a fan of the styling, the EV Performance was impressive.
In that sense, 1 tons from the 90s are overrated for towing, too. The only advantage a 95 chevy 3500 has over my 2015 chevy 1500 is a 14 bolt rear and stiffer spring rates. Everything else on my 15 is stronger/more capable. Both are rated for 10k lbs and weigh about 5k lbs.
@@theonly9 100% agree. I have an 88' F350 with a gas 460 /4.10 gears and PREFER towing heavier loads with my 12' F150 5.0/3.73 gears. The old F350 is rated for 12,000# and my newer F150 9300#. Just the brakes alone are lightyears ahead on the F150 and it gets significantly better mileage towing the same 8500# trailer. The F150 did come with crappy P rated tires, but installing Load Range D completely solved the "squirmy" trailer towing issue it had.
They don’t overrate it, they measure at sea level. It’s a “MAXIMUM” for a good reason and if you actually read the manual, it says to reduce tow weight going up elevation.
@13965082 only Ford does that. The test isn't performed at sea level, it consists of a series of acceleration and braking tests on level ground as well as on grade close to the maximum grade you'll find on a small rural highway.
Over 10k buy a 2500
You keep saying the cybertruck uses is a lot of energy, but it only carries about a tenth of much energy as the ford. It's actually using much, much less energy than the ford.
Exactly, it went 16 miles with 15kwh of electricity, that's the equivalent efficiency of 35.94 miles per gallon. The main limitation of electric vehicles currently is that they can only hold an equivalent energy to about 2-6 gallons of gasoline (The Cybertruck is right around 4 gallons)
and it was mentioned "it's not about the range it's about the performance and hot weather performance" but yet that's all they keep talking about is the range. The bias is why I stopped watching a few years ago and looks like why ill stop watching TFL content again.
@@erikmoore7402 I was thinking the same thing myself. The Cybertruck is extremely efficient but just doesn't have the energy density. Towing range is an issue. I love how they tout the Silverado EV, but that thing weighs over 9000 lbs and may never be produced in any significant quantity. I'm still looking forward to the Ramcharger as a potential good middle ground.
@A1Cebling So it used much less energy than the f150 right?
@@erikmoore7402 Correct, it used less energy.
The cybertruck actually did much better than I was expecting! 20% loss really isn’t that bad when you have 66% left. *plus* you gained around 10% back from the regen going downhill. Very cool. Going to the Silverado EV video next 😂
Okay but what if theres a skidsteer for sale in texas and you live in montana
@@jakewillits4678 then I’d buy a gas truck, like I already have. Good thing I (and most) don’t tow or travel 200+ miles that often. I just need a bed to throw appliances/furniture/junk in every once in a while
@@jakewillits4678, You stop at a lot of superchargers along the way. It's going to be a long trip either way. If it's a one-and-done kinda thing then the Cybertruck will do fine and you'll just have more rest stops along the way. If it's a several times a year trip for you, then an EV truck is not the right tool for the job.
Fun fact: the Ecoboost does not have a coolant temp sensor. It calculates coolant temp using an algorithm that uses cylinder head temp and charge air temp as the key inputs. Also that Mercon ULV transmission fluid can handle much higher temps than the older fluids. 250 is still within safe operating temp for the new 10 speeds.
Low engine speed + boost + low air flow = high engine temps. Throw in high ambient temp and altitude on top and a lot of trucks will struggle with cooling. Really curious now how the new Ram hurricane I6 would do on this test.
I'm a mechanic at a Cadillac dealership and we get a lot of those 10 speeds in with valve body issues. I'm not sure how much is the same between the Ford and GM variants, but I do know that just to set the fluid level, the temp has to be between 167 and 176 degrees which is monsterous compared to the 6/9 speed and 8 speed fluids GM uses. Those are at like 120 or less
@@theconfused_fisherman my understanding is they are identical on the inside with the only difference being the outer case and the programming. They are just manufactured separately by each company so there could be different material quality and processes. I know in 2022 ford redesigned a bushing in the CDF drum that was a known failure point. As an owner of 2 2023 Fords with 10 speeds I can verify they have resolved the early issues and they shift smooth and fast.
Racing with a 10 speed in my 2019 Mustang GT it would routinely get over 200 degrees. I think the highest I saw was about 230 degrees. The transmission didn’t care and it didn’t affect anything. That was racing it in 118 degrees in Phoenix. I remember when reaching over 200 degrees on a transmission meant you were overheating it.
Poor Ford people. All that anger trolling Ram videos and this is not the first time they have bit the dust. The fact that they not only have an aluminum truck but also have by far the biggest budget is sad, RIP
@@BloodAlwaysFindsItsLevel was I trolling Ram somehow? I was just stating a fact about the 3.5 ecoboost. I’m genuinely curious how the new hurricane would perform in this scenario since it is another boosted 6 in a half ton and is new on the market. This is a tough test and the half tons they’ve done this with have had various temp issues.
Nothing too strange here, in Australia when you setup a vehicle for heavy towing we fit aftermarket oil coolers, the factory supplied ones tend to overheat easily when towing a few ton or if doing sand driving in the summer.
In America, you’re supposed to use higher rated trucks for the job being shown. If you’re using all of your rated towing capacity at 5,000-10,000 ft altitude, you’re probably picked the wrong truck in the first place.
The factory set up is adequate at sea level. This is a deliberate torture test.
@@matthewgaines10only on ford. They’re the only ones that say you have to reduce the weight at elevation. The other manufacturers don’t have that stipulation with their tow ratings.
That’s because the rest of the world is more practical and pragmatic than America. The rest of the world determines the issues and rectifies it, meanwhile in the states they just suggest you buy a 3000kg truck with a 7.0L V8. It’s part of the consumer mindset, don’t bother fixing the issue when you could just buy a newer, bigger, better one!
@@DMSparkykinda puttin us in one basket, half the Vountry gas common sense, but most of our regulators are not.
@@richardoaks3597though there may not be stipulations in other owners manuals, you're likely to get the same results with the same test with other trucks.
Before watching this video, I was thinking it might be the Cybertruck's motors. F150 struggled mightily. Cybertruck didn't care. Wow. That's a surprising result actually. Thanks for doing this real world test guys, because people actually do these things out in the real world and this is good information. Cybertruck gains some respect in my book.
Guys, air density matters for removing heat through a radiator just like it matters for your power output. As altitude increases, air density decreases, which is why they say to not tow as much at altitude.
Thanks capt obvious, point is other trucks have enough headroom in the cooling system to tow their capacity at elevation.
@@OtisFlint Not really, most (all?) manufacturers have an equation for calculating towing capacity for higher elevation and temps. TFL overheated a 6.2L Silverado last year doing this same test if I'm not mistaken. Overheated the oil *and* coolant from what I remember
Air density in regards to power output doesn't matter as much with a turbo, it'll literally compensate for that, the waste gate will spool the turbo until it's giving the proper boost.
@@Joshcheyka Power output is not the issue, it's radiator cooling efficiency which takes a hit as there's less air molecules for unit of volume for that heat exchange to take place.
@@boostav- Would power output decrease the same in a N/A engine?
Let's not forget that the F-150 was floored and doing 20mph and the Cybertruck at the same point was doing twice the speed.
I mean yeah bro but if yorue not clumbing up the dang mountain you actually might want to tow your atvs farther away like perhaps across the country
I mean you're also talking the base engine that they are pushing to it's limits. The Cyber truck base has a higher tow rating then a F-150 with the base engine.
There was a lot of comment about how much kWh were consumed but at no time did they mention the Ford getting 5.1 MPG. Also it seems that the video shots were showing the Ford going up the hill going slower so they were "pushing" the Tesla to do more work to cover the same distance.
Fair points. If they wanted to compare Range then they should have gone same speed and said how far the Ford would be able to go on a full tank, under these conditions. I'm also not sure if they were still towing on the way down, which would effect the regen gain. But this vid was focused on performance.
Lost 26% going up hill, got back 11% coming back down. Only used 14% of the battery doing heavy towing uphill short range. Just ignore that part.
I’ve towed that exact model skid loader in my Lightning with no problems. It eats range but you never know it’s back there
Man the lightning range is just so low man
You mean the over-loaded Ford warned-overheated? shocking revelation!
Trailer est: 10500lbs (note: TFL did not give data on weight distribution hitch final load)
Specs: 2024 Tremor - 3.5 ecoboost, 3.73 rear, payload max: ~1420 max tow: 10,200, GCVW: 17,100lbs
Looked like the payload limit was just over 1430lbs and just with Andre and the trailer, the onboard scale went red. Now add two more people for filming. Then add the elevation derating for elevation that ford provides in the Towing guide. Truck payload overloaded, towing is at or over max for truck, then add the elevation and both payload and towing are overload.
Ford gives towing derating number for good reason, physics. All other trucks are subject to the same physics but they don't tell you this. If you read the towing guide it says this number is used to estimate driving conditions without elevation, so they are prewarning you that elevation will be harder on your vehicle and towing capability. And giving you a guide to estimate new limits at a given elevation. Put any truck at it's limits and it will do the same thing.
Truck payload was red because the load wasn’t in the right spot; they adjust the position of the load so it is green with everyone inside before they start towing as they have demonstrated in many other videos, they just didn’t film it this time.
I don’t know about the tow rating, but my guess is that the monroney they have either gives a higher rating or they just rounded up on the video to keep it simple. They are very good about staying within rated limits (except for elevation deductions), and are pretty clear the times when they go over the ratings (either intentionally or accidentally).
Lol elevation doesn't matter to the Cybertruck, so your "any truck" only applies to every truck that isn't a cybertruck, also it's just the two of them. They have GoPros mounted to the windshield.
@@AdamWood I love how it wasn't even really warm, the battery was 30-40% on temp gauge and the motors were cold xD
Two things.
1. I cannot believe what trucks cost now.
2. The Cybertruck wins as bang for the buck, without the foundation series tax.
There’s a couple in our RV group that was shocked their new F150 ECOboost continued to overheat during our California Arizona rally. Most of us had V8s and Diesels and had no issues.
Turbos are such a liability on daily use petrol vehicles where they are often used as a crutch. Outside of an e.g. HD class diesel truck or professional big rig, or sportscar, you shouldn't need them. If you do, you got a substandard product.
Here in the US because of how they do the emissions testing and how they do the CO2 calculations The manufacturers are literally forced into it. @@N4CR
Just buy a diesel truck if you tow. Diesels are really good at towing
@@surfstarcc1 But they cost 3x the price per mile... They're very expensive especially if they break
@@surfstarcc1 they're very expensive especially if they break.
Great video. Take a heavy duty pickup up the mountain. Like a f-250 gas and see how the temperatures run.😊
The lack of turbos on the 7.3L Godzilla should help it run cooler...
@@richfarfugnuven6308also the cooling systems on the SuperDuty are higher capacity. It's typically what is see towing this kind of load in any situation.
@mtnman1984 correct. I have 3 diesels now, and I am selling my 42-foot fifth wheel. Time to get Godzilla...
@@richfarfugnuven6308 You will regret it. Nothing beats a diesel for long distant towing.
@@rogerheuckeroth7456exacly!!
I don't understand these trucks now. I have a 2019 Nissan Titan gasser and I pull regularly up kangaroo lake, steep switchbacks averaging 20 to 30 mph with and 8100 lb. Forest River and a polaris in the bed......it revs and does its thing but never skips a beat, no temp issues......it just doesn't care.
Such an underrated truck!
Just 2 hours ago we came from our vacation trip. Titan xd v8 doesn't care. 4 kids, wife and me. Close to 7+k trailer and whole bunch of other stuff. It just does it. Revs high when needed but does the job... We did same thing with our Armada no problem, just does it.
It’s a Ford thing. That’s all that needs to be understood.
So you guys really emphasized HOW MUCH energy the CT used….but in the wrong way. The fair conversion between the heat energy per mpg of gasoline vs mile per kwh is about a factor of 40. So while that 150 was at 7.4 mpg on the screen… the CT was at an equivalent 12.3 mpge uphill and 42.7 mpge round trip with the regen going downhill recaptured. CT would used WAY LESS energy than the 150. The fair way to compare these two would be like the CT having a tiny gas tank and just using a higher percentage of its energy but efficiency wise it totally destroyed the 150
People care more about how far they can go in an EV since it takes so long to charge vs having to buy an extra few gallons at the pump (which takes almost no time at all).
That tail gate makes no sense. If a trailer won't allow the tail gate to go down then there won't be room to swing the big tail gate door open either!
He didn't demonstrate it well, it has a detent when opening that will stop it short of half way so it won't hit a hitch that is set up closer to the bumper.
When driving EV, you're always mentioning "how far it can tow". Why not provide the same info for a gas car? What was consumption of the F-150? How many gallons consumed vs. how much fuel it carries?
Probably because there are gas stations just about everywhere and it only takes a couple of minutes to fill up.. vs fewer places to charge an electric vehicle and having to sit and wait for it to recharge.
@@pat86able I did not see a gas station on the climb. And a gas vehicle needs gas to drive down as well, so it would be nice to know the fuel consumption. If not for knowing how much fuel there needs to be in the tank, then for comparison of cost.
Also: just because there's an ATM every 500 meters, doesn't mean you can spend more money.
I just times the tank capacity by the mpg shown 161 miles the cyber truck was going twice the speed up most of the hill so their is the spare time for recharging.
I didn't pay too much attention to it but at one point in the video it showed the Ford's display and it was at 6.3 mpg. No idea if that was average, current, overall, if it got better, got worse??? Seems about right though, no way any reasonable person would think towing 10k lbs uphill is going to net you 21 mpg. (I say that but we all know there's some doofus out there expecting it)
If they got the same 5mpg that they got while going up hill the entire time, the Ford would drive about 150 miles in those conditions (assuming it didn’t blow up, which it obviously would have since it severely overheated twice in 8 miles). I don’t know what size gas tank it has and I don’t care to look it up, but I’m guessing 30 gallons.
The Cybertruck was getting about 3100Wh/m or 0.32 mi/kwh. That means, with a 120kWh battery, it would go about 38 miles. Not great, but that’s because 120kWh is less than 4 gallons of gas. If the F150 only had 4 gallons of gas, it wouldn’t even make it a single mile under those conditions. (30 gallons of gas is equivalent to about 1,011kWh of energy)
Why wouldn't you compare it to Ford's electric truck? I don't think there are very many people cross shopping Cyber Trucks to Tremors.
Do you really think they are cross shopping Lightnings to Tremors?
@@Cloud30000I think he meant they would be cross shopping lightning to cyber truck since those are both electric. You switched out the wrong one
@@Cloud30000 We should study my first comment and report back.
@@BumbleBeeJBG I decided to take you up on the offer, and it is with great pride I have completed my study.
I've got a peer reviewed study right here that says *checks notes* 'you missed the point of the video'.
The point was to compare gas vs electric, not Ford vs Tesla. I’m sure they just used the Cybertruck because it was an electric truck that they already own vs having to try to borrow both F150s from Ford at the same time.
Let’s be honest: if you spent that amount of money on a half ton truck and you’re planning on towing that much weight…even somewhat regularly…you’ve already made some serious financial mistakes. 😅
ALSO, look at the RPMs they’re hauling up those grades. 2,000 rpms? This isn’t a Cummins, it’s a tiny lil V-6 gasser. Get those rpms up and I doubt you’d have overheating problems.
Well said. Put it in manual mode, gear down, keep the RPM's a bit higher.
They were in 2nd gear…
You're forgetting that they were driving the F-150 really slowly. It took 51 minutes when the Tesla took 24.
To get the RPM up they'd have to be in first gear while driving that slowly.
I don't think you understand thermal dynamics. If you gear down and make the engine rev higher, that will generate more heat, not less. Sorry to inform you that a V6 is not well suited to hauling heavy loads up a steep grade.
@@surferdude4487 ah, okay. I guess I’ll just keep my 5500 at 1500 rpms going up a steep mountain grade next time I’m pulling a 30,000 load cause apparently you know what you’re talking about.
Problem with the ecoboost is the turbos are also water cooled just adding to the heat in the coolant so towing max in high heat up a mountain is just asking for trouble
The V8 Silverado 1500 overheated with no turbos. In fact, it overheated to oil which is far more problematic.
@@ryansheard8092 yeah i just noticed my ecoboost towing vs my v8 or my diesel the water temp skyrockets unusually fast. I put aftermarket fans and a manual fan switch in so miles before hills i will run them and get it down to 165 or so before the climb. Seemed to help
Watercooled turboes are not the problem, just add a bigger watercooler.
Not cooling the turboes with water is going to cook the oil in the turboes instead and that will be going back to the engine anyway.
@@larsjrgensen5975 you dont need to add a bigger radiator just bigger fans. And thats not true because diesels don't use water cooled and it doesn't cook the oil and they see temps up to 1000 degrees. I said the water temp just spikes faster with more elements heating it. I wasnt arguing oil temp i was talking about water temp itself
@@Stale_Kracker fixing it with more powerful fans or changing the aircooler both fixes the problem, all good.
The turbo bearing part needs cooling, if not using water the turbo will use the oil as cooling instead.
After the oil has soaked up heat from the turbo the oil goes back to the engine with the turbo heat.
Water cooling or not makes no real difference, the heat still goes back to the engine unless the turbo has its own cooling system.
If the turbo heats the engine up with hot oil the watercooler cooling the engine is still going to rise to dangerous levels, the turbo heat does not disappear.
Unfortunately, the Ecoboost has a long history of overheating in demanding situations. Ask me how I know....
Yeah I would imagine the 5.0 would have fared better.
@@glennstiller7616no it doesn't. It's revving at 6 grand the entire time and within 5 minutes it's going into limp mode
@@davidporter7051 OK sure. I've never seen a V8 rev at 6000 constantly while towing (unless of course massively overloaded) but I guess you must have seen differently.
@@glennstiller7616 the coyote is revving at 6 grand going up a 7% grade. It's not making peak power until 5,800 RPM.
@@davidporter7051peak torque at 5800?
80k for the F150 and it looks like a base fleet truck from 15 feet away... just ridiculous
That’s my biggest gripe with the f150. The 24s have a really nice front and rear design but the body is so basic
Guys I got mine for $37,000. They’re not that expensive unless you need all these extra luxuries which I’m pretty sure you don’t.
@@ThunderandLightningEvPickupThese whiners bitch about how trucks are work vehicles, for average joes, too expensive etc and then refuse to buy a work truck trim. For being “real” people who just need a utility vehicle, they sure spend lots of time looking at tremors, king ranches, high country etc.
Aww, princess. You don't feel special if your truck looks like a truck?
Nobody is forcing you to buy.
My 2024 Ranger Raptor USA went into Limp Mode towing 2600 pounds uphill in Arizona, 120 degrees outside
8:17
Even when watching youtube I can't escape people trying to sell me an extended warrenty 😂
congratulations owner CyberTruck. you guys have a great test love it. My dream car.
I have a GMC Sierra 2500 6.0 and when heavy towing it,would over heat just past 225 and what I ended doing was buying a 160 termostat and it solved my problems towing the same grade were it would over heat it’s just over 198.
Cybertruck has more range than F150 in this scenario?
Ford:
5,1mpg / 23Gallons = 117miles range
Cybertruck:
15kwh in 15,6 miles /123kwh =
128 miles range
Am i missing something??
Depends if they have a gas station at the top of the mountain. Pretty sure they have electricity. They could park and charge the Cybertruck! :)
F150 comes standard with a 36-gallon tank.
@@mxer652 Ah, good point. But i get different Infos on that. Seems that 23 (or 26 or 30??) is standart and there is a 36 Option? That would put it to 183 Miles.
@@davidbeppler3032 Don't know about that, but you could use a Solar charger with foldable Panels, if you stay there longer
yeah everyone loves to point out range loss on EV's towing but not range lost on Gas vehicles towing. i saw a report once and they are almost identical percentage wise. which makes sense its all physics.
Love seeing Granger as a sponsor. Buying a truck from them was the best experience and price. There is a reason people are willing to travel thousands of miles to buy from them.
@@B49nope No. Just a happy customer that has made a 1,500 mile drive twice because of local dealership shenanigans.
My ford ranger was attached to the space shuttle and used to crawl the surface of the moon. Got attacked by aliens with lasers who took me and my Ranger and threw it from the moon to the earth, the impact was hard, but beside a little chip on my paint it started right up and drove me to the 7eleven for a big gulp as the re entry was a little warm, still have this truck to this day. We use it to tow semi’s that have broke down in the highway, and sometimes go to drive over old land mine areas of the world to set them off for the village folk there.- built Ford Tough, Ford Ranger
I’m surprised how good the cybertruck did actually
Great for short range and frequent use. Bad for long range. If you need to drive more than 200 miles a day, use a diesel. If you need to tow more than 80 miles a day, diesel, unless you have somewhere to charge like a job site for 8 hours. ;)
@@davidbeppler3032 cyber truck can charge 10-80% in 44 minutes. you could easily drive 2 hours and charge while you eat and piss and continue on and do that a couple times. i think if you wanted to do over 500miles a day on a schedule towing the diesel might make sense.
@@3184Patrick You missed the important word. "Can"
Sure, if everything works out right and you have a Tesla supercharger exactly 86 miles with a full load. Charge for 10 min and do another 70 miles. Not sure how you could do 500 miles in a day... but sure. Just charge several times a day. You could do it. It would save you a lot of money too.
I have had my CT for 5 months (5000 miles) now and besides not being able to tow far it is an amazing vehicle despite the what the media is trying to sell you. I only need to tow my UTV trailer every once in a while and is better than my Raptor in everything else besides range. Sad the most American made truck gets so much hate.
@@blueplanet1048 without towing I get a solid 310 miles of range with these monster 35" tires.
It was so refreshing to hear an unbiased review/experience. I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation too. Pls don't become salesmen on RUclips even if you do take sponsorships.
Great video
I was not expecting the cybertruck to do so well in this test while being so efficient. If you can get over the styling and tow a few times a year, it seems like a decent choice to me.
I appreciate the unbiased objective review and test of the two trucks. And it's also gratifying to see that the Cybertruck's frame does actually survive towing to its capacity. Over on WhistlingDiesel they ripped the hitch and a healthy chunk of the frame off their Cybertruck trying to haul a stuck F150 off of logs it high-centered on. They were being far more brutal with both their trucks, though, and had probably had exceeded the load rating on that hitch by an order of magnitude.
You should see his newest video. The witness claiming the hitch snapped towing a boat is pretty damning that a pothole might destroy the hitch on a CT.
$20K less price on CT will start on dec 2024, close to 1 year of the Foundation series.
Sounded so reluctant but well done for a fair review & comparison
TFL said it best in a Ford “it’s the standard” to overheat when towing conditions are tough.
$80k and they don't give you an oil cooler 🤣
@@galactictomato1434 The oil temps weren't the issue. 255 isn't excessively hot for oil, 250 is very hot for coolant.
@@galactictomato1434 for 80k does Chevy, Ram or Toyota get you an oil cooler?
Would be interesting to see an f150 with the max tow setup. 2024 tremer doesn't have the larger radiator given with the max tow. The larger radiator also comes with the powerboost.
Actually they all have oil coolers. They just aren’t big enough for this type of usage.
Ty for the seemingly fair comparison boys!
Seems to be the norm when towing heavy like this with the 3.5EB . Definitely not a Powertrain I would ever choose for that sort of work.
I have Seen these EB 3.5L overheat like this a lot when pressed / worked really hard like seen in this test.
Would really love to see the same test with a gas v8 , I know the lack of Turbo is not ideal for power, but not near as prone to overheating like the small displacement turbo v6.
My 2023 F-150 XL 5.0 STX 4wd supercrew was over 30k less money than that Tremor and a lot of truck by comparison, but my 2011 3.5 Ecoboost F-150 XL HDPP std cab long bed will crush it in every meaningful way towing, payload, acceleration, braking and simplicity (despite the twin turbos). Never had a problem with overheating the 3.5 Ecoboost, and I towed heavy loads thru Arizona and Texas in the summer on I-8/10. I did have to downshift manually to keep the engine in the sweet spot but it just ran and ran (10k 24' box trailer). The 5.0 actually gets slightly mileage and sounds better though.
Towing up hills with coyote: just put it at 4k rpm at let that v8 sing. Never had it even close to overheating in AZ heat.
@snazzerbear I've had the 5.0 and the 3.5 within the past 5 years and put tons of miles and towing on both in TX. The 3.5L is so far superior in every way in the things that matter it's no comparison. The thought that the 3.5 overheated because it's a small displacement TT V6 is smashed by the Silverado 1500 V8 that overheated.
The grade and elevation they towed that trailer up doesn't exist in most places. That truck performed quite well.
As a mechanical designer, I laugh at people who think that a V8 is just better because, well, it's a V8. It's so uneducated.
They did this with a v8 Silverado and it overheated. 3.5 is amazing for towing.
Ah yes, Arizona is infamous for its low-speed extreme grade mountain roads. Glad the truck handled them well.
Kase and Andre are a great combo
With the comment about the lack of fan noise, I wonder if the cooling fans are spooling up like they're supposed to at higher temps. Wonder if an engine warning or code light would pop up if they didn't? Maybe something to check with the service laptop. Never know.
No, I didn't read all the comments below, so this may have been covered already BUT, what about all the regen braking putting power back into the battery when going down hill? I towed an 18' camp trailer through all 48 states in 2021 with my Model Y duel motor and loved the regen braking in the mountains. I drove west out of Denver to Utah on I70 and used a lot of battery going up over the summit but had almost 3/4 charge put back into the battery when I got out of the mountains!
They showed that at the end. The energy usage going up hill was horrible at nearly 3.4Kwh per mile. But after coming back down, the regen put so much back that the average usage for the entire trip was only around 0.940Kwh per mile.
Thank you for more coverage of cybertruck awd vs other $80k premium trucks. The blend of offroad capability and payload/towing capacities make these some of the best trims to select. Tremor, ZR2/AT4, Rebel, TRD-Pro.... that is the cybertruck AWD direct competition.
Cybertruck towing software is due for a OTA update for opportunities you mentioned: saving trailer profiles, hitch alignment, camera views, powertrain/coolant temperatures, axle scales. Tesla needs to integrate trailer camera & TPMS and telescopic tow mirrors for accessories.
I also wonder how using navigation destinations would help it predict future power/cooling needs. Could it preventively lower coolant temperatures before a high load in the form of thermal energy buffer?
Thats a great point if using NAV. The truck would know what it's about to encounter and could prep the powertrain accordingly.
Cybertruck is totally due for an update, there's so many useful things they can add: Larger steering ratio when towing (Steer by wire allows them to adjust this through software) and the stuff you said. I'm sure Tesla will come up with other cool/useful things as they've done for their other vehicles.
I've had 3 ecoboost trucks, never saw these issues towing heavy, and i can definitely hear my cooloing fan when it kicks in
I own two of them. No issues either.
My expedition with ecoboost overheated transmission. It got so hot coolant lines exploded. Cost $2,000 in repairs at Ford. Year later 10 speed failed. $6,000 replacement.
Fomoco does lead ALL automotive oems in warranty costs and recalls per vehicle sold. 😀
And I've owned over a dozen new Ford's and many more used ones so I'd know. 🙂
@@4literv6 Hogwash! What Dealers do (happened to me) is they claim can't replicate problem) Happened with my F250 6.0L going into limp mode up hells towing my RV (well under towing max)... After the 3rd time and more denials, I traded it for RAM with the Cummins and never had an issue towing again. Of course we learned about had bad those 6.0L's were while Ford initially said it was fine...
We did a spur-of-the-moment drive up to Mt Evans and were wondering if we would have enough juice left to make it down to Idaho Springs to supercharge on the way home to Denver. Shouldn't have worried. On the way down the mountain we regenerated enough energy to drive directly home to Denver to charge up in our own garage.
It's just my experience, but every time I see someone towing with a light duty truck, they drive like it's a car with no trailer at all. I've got a 2017 eco 3.5 and pull a 30' camper loaded with water and anything my wife can find to put in it and never have overheating issues. Was just towing in 96° heat the last week.
My experience with my 2011 3.5 Ecoboost HDPP is the same, it never overheats, it just runs... But I think that the HDPP has a bigger radiator.
It only overheated because of the massively steep grade at high elevation. That grade is probably 12% or so I'd assume which is insane. Yes, towing 11K lbs on a flat or even slightly inclined surface in the heat wouldn't have the same affect.
@@ryansheard8092 also they were going like 20 mph.... so next to no air flow
@joefries7046 yeah, the biggest take away is that 99.9% of people watching this channel will ever put their 1/2 ton truck through anything close to that and so they will never experience "overheating". Also, that trucks coolant reduced the temp almost immediately upon reducing power a bit. It performed exceptionally well overall.
@@ryansheard8092 very true. i was surprised that even though it had warnings it never left them stranded and thats a big win
I am really Loving this test!! If possible, I would Love to see more trucks as well as SUVs. Tahoe/Yukon, Expedition, Wagoneer etc. would be awesome!
Can't wait to see what the Cybertruck can do with the range extender.
Yeah, in cold weather.
@@F8Tributo cold weather doesnt effect teslas as much as other EVs because of their advancd heatpumps, youre gonna see around 1% range drop in -10C
one bar is the most accurate temperature unit since the invention of farenheit scale.
This is exactly what my 2014 F150 3.5 Ecoboost used to do. Had to be really careful towing my 5500 lb travel trailer here in Utah if it was over 80* out.
I had to upgrade the intercooler, radiator and add an external oil cooler to get it to stay cool. And by cool, I mean keep the coolant below 230*
Should’ve changed you’re thermostat to a lower opening temperature, like 160F and it’ll open earlier and keep cooler
@@tylerking27 Changing your thermostat doesn't prevent you from hitting 240F coolant temps. If my 190F thermostat is wide open at 210F and I still get up to 240F, why would one that's wide open at 180F change anything other than maybe delay it slightly. When you are pulling a 7% grade for 10 minutes, that small delay is pretty meaningless.
The problem is Ford's cooling system cannot reject enough heat. Whether its the size of the radiator or the electric fans, its not able to shed enough heat to keep the coolant at the thermostat temperature in the first place. Lowering the temperature of the thermostat doesnt change that. The only way to fix it is by adding more cooling capacity via a larger radiator and an oil cooler.
@@Jay-me7gw if it opens earlier then the coolant doesn’t get a chance to get as hot because it is flowing and being cooled by fans. Maybe you’re not as smart as you think k you are because it has worked for many people for a long time. It does help slightly in real world towing….
@@tylerking27 Heat in needs to equal heat out. Thats it. A thermostat doesnt change heat out. If it needs to get to 250F to balance heat in vs heat out, its going to get to 250F no matter what thermostat you use.
Maybe its worked for you, but out west where the grades are huge, it doesnt work. I can be climbing a steep grade for 15+ minutes at 65mph. A cooler thermostat isnt doing shit in that situation.
Since most construction operators would be using at least a 3\4 ton truck to tow that up, there would be interesting to see what a 7.3 Godzilla would do compared to that F150 and cyber truck
My 2014 F150 3.5 overheated a couple times pulling about 8k lbs through west Texas.
I have the same engine and pull a 7k camper. Never overheated, but my manifold eventually warped. Been to both coasts on I10.
@@jghall00 It was over 100f at the time it overheated.
I like the American flag wrap on the Cyber truck. It looks awesome!
Give that truck back to Ford with warped aluminum heads and a pending head gasket failure.
Change the fluids and it'll be fine.
You think Aluminum warps at 250 degrees?
The engine derates specifically to prevent any damage; the mechanical parts are fine, but the coolant took some abuse and likely smells burnt now.
@@Cloud30000 My 5.0 Coyote Mustang regularly runs 220° F in the summer when idling and in slow traffic. Has the oil cooler and Boss radiator too. Was at 210 today on the highway. im sure going up that hill without a trailer would get really hot.
@@302Mustang13 I almost freaked out the first time I decided to look at my c7 corvettes coolant temp in the summer and it was running between 220-230. But come to find out that's completely normal and the fan wont even kick on into its highest setting until 235. Almost all newer cars (at least American v8 cars) run 210 or more for emissions reasons and can easily run up to 240 without issues. From my other older sports cars I was used to 190ish being the norm and 220 being the absolute highest you would really ever see before coolant started spewing out of the radiator.
Yep!!
It's a Ford! 1 and done!!!
I can't wait for battery technology to get to the point where you can drive like this for 100's of miles with no issues. Just goes to show the biggest factor at the moment is the battery density.
3.5 EB, makes the power and torque at low rpm but also uses engine coolant to cool the engine, transmission, engine oil and turbos. Under heavy stress it doesn't have enough rpm for coolant flow for max cooling.
This is why in my 3.5 EB Transit I've taken the transmission cooling and separated it from the engine with a Derale fan assisted cooler under the van.
The other thing you should be doing is manually shifting and running higher rpm, like 3k plus.
If Tesla can increase the range on these trucks by 50% with a better battery they would be highly desirable across a lot of use cases.
As they are the truck still has a lot going for it. I think CT will become very popular truck.
My RAM 2500 diesel tows my 9000 pound trailer across the country, in the summer heat, up thru the Rockies and the temp gauges barely move from when I’m driving in the flatlands. I get between 11-13 MPG while towing. When not towing, I get close to 21 MPG. If you’re gonna tow, get a 3/4 or 1 ton diesel and don’t bother screwing around with either of these things.
Agree with your choice of vehicle to do this type of work, but just like the EV you loose 50% of your range when towing. Range loss is similar, it’s the refueling speed that is the issue.
Valuable info' guys. Thanks.
Although some of your other comparisons are not appropriate, this slow speed, high temp towing is awesome!!! I've run into this scenario on a truck in the mountains of N. C. Please add this test when evaluating other trucks. Of course, timing is everything, and if the weather doesn't cooperate, then I wouldn't waste your time. But if it's hot, will definitely want to see this test over the IKE gauntlet one. Thanks guys
Great point!
Great thought! Both tests with the same vehicle! This would give a wider range of extreme towing capability.
How much gas did the F150 regenerate back into the tank on the way back down the hill?
But the gas truck did not refuel itself going down hill.
Could never figure out why Ford removed transmission coolers from the F150. I’d like to see Ford, Chevy, Dodge and Toyota make that climb and see how they compare
Have you done this test with the 3.0 Duramax truck? Wondering how it will do!
Viva Colorado as the torture test for trucks and altitude! I live here (in Denver) and very often tow horses up and across the Rockies.
These videos are invaluable! These guys have a great book on trucks and their ratings. What they often refer to as the 'Ike Gauntlet' is taking a truck from Denver altitude... Famously 5280... and within about 60 minutes you are crossing the top of the Rockies through the Eisenhower tunnel which is 11,500 feet. At that altitude, it's damn near winter year round.
Then... You get to test braking as you head down into Dillon, which feels like you are dropping off a cliff. It's so steep a descent that you can't use brakes if towing. You have to gear down and use engine braking.
Range will always be an issue in the Cybertruck but the more I see it the more I’m impressed with it. Elon needs to apply this power train to a more conventionally styled truck with more battery capacity and it might be an option for many people
They have the range extender coming out soon.
This is the first time they're ramping production. They could of made a 500, 600 hell 700 mile version BUT... that would add massive complexity and strain on 4680 production which are in very early stages and don't even use the dry electrode technique (This will be done by the end of this year and boost range by 10%-15%).
Once they've got 4680 cells in a good state and cybertruck in mass production at the end of this year... it won't be too long until we get that 500 mile Cybertruck.
Sounds like a good start but styling is still going to be an issue for many ( I would say most) people. I know it’s early so perhaps this is already being addressed. I also hear they are considering allowing other cars to charge at the super chargers. This I feel would be a mistake as most chargers I’ve seen are pretty taxed with existing Teslas already. Time will tell.
@@troybockhop1351 Those people can buy a Ford Lightning. Why should Tesla steal 100% of the market? Let people have a choice. They can pick the best truck, Tesla Cybertruck or the one they think is pretty, the Ford Lightning. :)
No point having a big flat front with a 95% efficiant electric motor better to drop the drag cd for more range less noise and better visibility for not running over children. with the silverado ev battery in the cyber truck it would go 50% further than the slab fronted conventionally styled silverado ev.
Nice to see the most American truck win 👍🏽
16:41 Ford got wind you'd be testing on this road and paid for a grader out-of-pocket.😂
Dang, the idea that you had for the cybertruck with the rear view mirror also being a camera is brilliant. You should definitely give them a tip for the Next Generation. That would be so sick if they did that and I don't think I've ever seen that done so they would be leading the way. Genius, pure genius
My 2019 Chevy Bolt had a rear view mirror camera from the factory…in a car that cost me $28k new after discounts. Plus it was actually designed so that I could see out the rear window. Tesla hasn’t lead the way in anything for at least 5 years, they’re definitely lagging way behind at this point.
Cybertruck shines pulling up hills and then regenerating power all the way back down.
So what I got out of it is keep my 07 5.9 lol!!!
or buy an EV not a gas truck.
I'm disappointed that you didn't talk about the trip down the hill with the regenerative braking all the way. Half of the energy consumed going up the hill was replaced going down the hill. How much of that energy was replaced in the gas truck? None!
The Cybertruck is great for towing with insufficient range for towing
It has the equivalent to less than 3.5 gallons worth of road diesel or about 4 gallons of gas in its battery is why.
123kwhs total and road diesel is 37.9kwhs per gallon in total energy capacity and gasoline per the epa is 33.7kwhs per gallon.
The next gen dry cathode 4680 cells should boost it another 10-15% And the range extender will make it about 500 miles when empty.
Prob 220-250 miles when towing 1-100% by next year. And the v4 scers will get it down to 150-180 miles of range back in 15-20mins charging.
Is it as good as gas or diesel? Yes and in some ways vastly superior when not towing and using it locally for daily driving duties.
Which is what 90+% of ALL personal use pickups do anyway. But on road trips and towing duties? Gas or diesel still wins sometimes.
@@4literv6 Well said!
This is why I don't understand why Ford doesn't take their hybrids more seriously. All they need is a super efficient generator completely decoupled from the drivetrain
@@thedopplereffect00 There are problems with running an engine as a pure generator and not connecting it to the drivetrain. You have to have a much larger battery than you would otherwise need because you have to give yourself a very large buffer at the bottom of the battery to handle large loads. On cars this isn't a *huge* deal because they're not really under large extended loads, but even then, the couple of Series hybrids that have been sold in the US have been known to go into Reduced Propulsion mode when climbing large grades with low state of charge.... The engine just can't make the electricity, store it, and convert it to propulsion fast enough or efficiently enough to keep the vehicle moving at a high rate of speed, under load, or otherwise undesirable circumstances. You put a pure series system in a truck, you have to account for towing its max capacity behind it, up a grade, and you could be in for a rough time on long uphill grades. The only real way around this would be to use a massive battery, and then only make like 50% of it available to the user so you have a large buffer to handle those situations (or I guess you could make it a software toggle with a Towing mode)
Then if you have a smaller battery, have the engine running as much as possible, and don't use it as a Plug-In to lower the price, your fuel economy just isn't good. Around town it will beat the pants off of a non-hybrid or even a parallel hybrid system.... But, as soon as you get onto the highway and are at a sustained high rate of speed for a length of time or towing, your fuel economy is going to be measurably worse than a non-hybrid or parallel hybrid. This is why systems that can do both parallel and serial operation are arguably the best (Toyota Planetary Power Split for example)
@@4literv633.7kw/gal but most of that is lost with heat. Terribly inefficient.
Great vid ! Only question that wasn't covered was how about the ability to accelerate in the Cube vs the ford, you had the Ford floored at points, but could you always accelerate the trailer with the cybertruck?
I've always been suspicious of tow ratings on these new half tons. My old F150 is rated around 7500 pounds and now they are saying these things can do 13k with one radiator/ transmission cooler. And now they are forcing tons of heat into these engines with turbos and smaller footprints for coolant to flow.
I agree, I think it's a marketing thing. Even your old F-150 could tow 10k lbs - just not for very long and it wouldn't be good for it. Same with these trucks, they should be rated much lower.
This has to be the first time I’ve seen a cyber truck do actual work
Lol I can still put my tailgate down with a trailer 😂😂😂 what a joke. Probs a 5000 dollar option
Ive personally seen someone slam their tailgate down on a trailer jack because "they can do it with their trailer" but they werent using their trailer.
Oh , one is a washing machine and the other is the dryer 😂😂
I would like to know what the rearend temp was , just out of curiosity.
Full capacity towing with the AC on uphill of course it will overheat but I’m impressed that it kept going while it overheated and you were not even worried about damage.
Tremor isn't the trim I would pick for towing.
It isn’t the trim I would pick for max towing at altitude.
I agree not the best trim, but if it's rated for it it should be ok to do. Unfortunately the manufacturers are not always trustworthy in my opinion. I personally own a 22 tremor and would never attempt it.
I think they were trying to stay as comparable to the cyber truck that they could get.
If I were towing up a washboard road, I would like to engage locking differentials. It’s great that the CyberTruck does so many thing automatically, but some manual overrides would be nice.
The f150 isn't engineered for that. Manual says to reduce max tow weight in those conditions. Why would you be surprised it overheats? Reminds me of when you put low octane gas in the 7.3 Ike run. Manual stated not to, but you did anyway. What was the payload numbers?
Ive owned dodges forever had the cummins the v6 "wt" and my latest truck a 2500 HD 5.7 (this was the cheapest HD I could find in 2018). I used both the larger ones for towing and quite often tip the scales from 18000 to 25000 lbs in total . I only tow about 50 miles or so in any one day. Im updating to the new Cybertruck beast , it should be more than adequate I will be done with fuels for good. enjoyed this video the dual motor still takes off like a bullet , tows great and handled the hill with no overheating of the battery. The recoup was substantial which makes a difference in the real world with hills. I take my M3 to the mountains and it takes about 1/2 the energy to get home as it does going up but ive never had a regin of the battery that quickly. you can bet with normal towing even heavy loads this will make a giant difference in range. Thanks for a great video guys.
Can you do a 1500 Silverado Tundra and Ram to compare who has the toughness to make it without overheating
Clearly ford lost
They said early in the video that a Silverado over heated pulling two side by sides. I am sure the others would do the same
They have a video from a couple years ago of a Chevy that overheated, with that truck they had to actually stop and let it cool down.
@@marcg.3830I wonder if an F150 hybrid would be able to do it without overheating by using the battery
I'd like to see the new Tundra with its 3.4L V6 go up there. Toyota engineers made a big deal about the cooling for their engine.
I think this slow speed with max tow would give most trucks a fit. The same load up the Ike they would be much cooler. Still, it'd be interesting to see the other ice trucks do the same load on the same day. That's the most important thing that they are all tested on the same day with the exact same low.
When setting up the wdh, it's best to install the bars before adding tongue weight to the truck. Pre load the bars, then drop the weight onto the truck. The wdh are rugged and designed to help carry the load.
Not sure it makes much of a difference either way. Tow capacities are kind of based on the truck/trailer bouncing around, dropping the hitch while parked isn't going to overload anything?
@@mattypontheroad Fitting the bars makes it easier on your back. No need to dead lift the bars. Doesn't impact the functionality when towing.
Let’s see heavy duty gas and diesel!
The heat and the grade are 100% the factor. Also, the tremor isnt their "tow" trim. I have a 21 powerboost lariat and towed about 11k lbs from Cincinnati to Chicago with no issues. I averaged 12 mpg too, thanks to the Livernois tune.
Towing on flat ground is vastly different than towing on a hill. This truck would probably have been fine towing on flat ground. They mentioned they towed the same trailer to the hill with the F150 with no issue. The problem is that most of the world isn’t flat. Towing steep grades is a requirement for many, many people. The F150 simply isn’t capable of towing near its max capacity on hills.
I would like to see this test with all electric trucks
I wanna see a blizzard type snow storm plow off. That would be exciting.
Cybertruck review mirror probably a ‘regs compliance’ device, not a customer utility device. Not a new revelation for T.