Review Grimm MU2 streamer - dac - pre amp
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- Опубликовано: 13 дек 2023
- We have the beautiful Grimm MU2 streamer - dac - pre-amp in our listening room. Of course we listened to it for a pretty long time... but now it was time to make a video for you! Martijn and I will tell you exactly why you shouldn't listen to it... unless you have around 18.000 Euro's to spend.
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I have had a Grimm MU2 for the past 3 days to check out. This was before I saw this review. They have got it all exactly right. What I am most surprised about it how good it makes the whole system sound, I also am finding myself listening to all sorts of new music just because it sounds sooo good. Amazing piece of kit. Well worth a look at. Great review they got it bang on
When I saw Hans’s review I knew this device was something special. And what a confirmation! Thanks for the video and looking forward to read the full review. Have a good weekend Jaap and Martijn
The way you describe the difference of the CD transport sound vs streaming via the same device is the same I hear with a lot of systems, and proves - for me - that I like good CD transports more than streaming. Based on the description, the MU2 seems to be a must listen, at least for reference. A similar experience I had when listened first time to the (then) new Lavardin IT amp in Paris in a system recommended by JC Crozel (RiP): the transparency, cleanness and the amount of low level musical information, notably in the deep bass region, completing an organic whole-ness of the music. Since then things improved even more, and this description sounded like a wonderful experience. I hope this sound quality will trickle down in price with time.
I love my MU1. I pair it with a Bartók and its just amazing. I'm sure the MU2 is spectacular also. The quality of the sound paired with the emotional connection it provides is other worldly. I have no idea what Eelco and the guys have done. It really is magical. You do have to describe it like that.
When i look at the inside I cant believe it honestly. But I heard the MU2 @Munich and was fascinated. How have you hooked up the bartok, usb or aes ebu?
@marco86 I use an AES connection yes. I think they expect that you use that or the spdif (on later models). The clocking signal is also sent to the external DAC via AES. The USB isn't an output on these.
Yes it doesn't look like much on the inside but there's magic in there for sure.
Talking only about the streamer and dac is nice but not enough. What speakers? What connections? What amp?
@morespinach9832 Feliks envy to Susvara. I heard the MU2 recently....its now ordered and the Bartok has a new home 😮
Yeah so I now have the MU2....Holy xxxx. It's absolutely amazing. As you guys said "How?"...how did they do that! Needs about 24hrs burn in but you can just play music without the need to have the amp on so it burns in silent ❤
Nice video. I'd like the MU to be modular so customers don't have to spend the full price up front. For instance, DAC+Preamp if you don't need the streamer (yet), or streamer + preamp, or streamer/DAC, or just the DAC, and add other modules later as needed.
That would lower the entry price and offers a growth path into Grimm to customers
That is not the concept of the device.
@@TheAlphaAudio MU for Modular Unit. The name is already there 😉
@@colanitower Hahaha... Yes. True.
Had the same reaction. I run Roon server as far as possible from analog signal lines, and have a renderer, DAC an preamp in different cabinets with their own power supplies
I think the clock may well be the key ingredient that makes these special. You can buy a Grimm Clock by itself, but it is a professional product. I'm not sure how well it will play with other retail gear.
Then again it may require this specific combination within the unit to sound as good as it does. Of course I am only speculating.
Potentially, magical "bit pixies" are being bred in a corner of the Grimm factory and are encouraged to live out their days in these devices. 🤭
Listen to music, agreed!.
And i think its hearing what the mic hears. I know there's mastering. But still. Eelco Grimm wants to do it as a professionel. I had him on the phone, regarding their cables.
Eelco is a peaceful person.
What is the sound differences between the sonnet vs. mu2 dac?
Sounds like an end game product? I'm always sceptical with all in one products. Due to your reaction I'm tempted to check it out, after all it's soon Christmas. Once again great review. 👍
Thanks!
Lots of high praise - now I have 2 things in mind: 1) I want to listen to that M2 marvel on a hifi fair, and 2) I want to ask (who joins in?) the Grimm team to think about a 5k trickle down variant :)
I don't think this is possible for 5k. I wanted the same with the Ls1-be. But like I said in the video: the LS1 and LS1a are not the same as the be-version...
By the way I looked up that Maria Milstein album on Roon to hear what you described. Check out the last page of the Qobuz supplied PDF. It was mastered on Grimm LS1 speakers. 👌
Hahaha..that is a nice detail!
Really enjoyed. Hello from London. What amp would you pair with mu2 and tads ? Would a nilai be good enough?
For our listening sessions, we paired it with the Pass Labs X150.8, which is part of the reference system. I haven't heard the MU2 with the Nilai on the TAD's, only on the Sonus Faber Lumina speakers. That sounded amazing, for such small speakers in an almost near field listening setup. The amplifier has to be able to drive the speakers and we know from experience the Nilai can drive the TAD's with ease. Soundwise, the Nilai is a bit dryer sounding than the Pass Labs. Both pair well with the MU2.
Thank you. Time to rob my bank.😮..I demod the tad evo2s with my mola mola Kula based on your review and really enjoyed them
Mm mmm,, I am also dreaming,, 😅🖐
Thank you guys,, 👍🌟🌟👍
I am really really interested in the MU2 but I wonder Alpha Audio whether you think that Roon in any way holds the MU2 back in terms of sound quality? I had the MU1 on loan from a dealer for about 3 weeks but in the end and after many comparisons I concluded that Roon was a factor in preventing the MU1 from surpassing other high end streamers. Having listened to many streamers over recent years I have concluded that the playback software had a significant impact on the sound quality. For my ears the Logitech Media Server and Squeezelite player is the best I have heard. I well remember a comparison listening test that you did including Roon and you were very disparaging of Roon and its effect on sound quality.
Mind you I also recall you guys saying that the MU1 was the only device you had listened to which was immune to local network influences and yet when I listened to the MU1 it was clear that network changes had a big influence on the MU1 sound. I wonder if this is the same with the MU2.
On the other hand the MU2 price is no doubt attractive but I do wonder how it really sounds compared to my reference system which is the Antipodes Oladra mk2 connected to the Mscaler via one of my Wave Storm RF filtering spdif cables and with a Chord Dave connected directly to a pair of ATC 150 active speakers. This of course is best to my ears when not using Roon because that seems to rob the system of so much of the magic which I appreciate so much.
Impossible to answer since we cannot compare the MU2 with using Roon or with using other software, so it will be speculation. As you can hear we don't feel the MU2 is being held back as it is, but maybe we would be even more satisfied or surprised if we could use, for instance, Audirvana to play music across the MU2. Maybe the future will tell us.
I don't know what 'big influence' of the network means to you. Your 'big' may be our 'small'. There's only one way to figure out how it plays in your system for your ears: start bugging a dealer for a home demo!
Prokofiev’s recording as mentioned has a lot of stereo effects on the violin (on Chinese R2R dac). Are you sure it is well positioned in the recording as stated?
Clearly in front of the orchestra. I guess you mean the movement you hear on the mics that are placed closer above her to pick up the sound of the violin and not let it drown out by the orchestra.
Agree, it is in front and for sure not submerged in the orchestra. But it is a bit too roomy if you ask me. Would love to come by and listen to it if at all possible
@@sdrnovice2000 Book a demo at a local dealer is my advice. As for the decisions in the mixing of the recording, that's a matter of taste. This recording is mastered on Grimm LS1 speakers, like all Channel Classics recordings, so that probably helps with the performance of the MU2.
Interesting that this analist covers stereo effect of a clarinet and explains possible cause. Meaning that for the violin the stereo effect is not added in the mixing room. ruclips.net/video/48PxwspDvrE/видео.htmlsi=uT9QMx2TGVdNCvvw
will be possible to use it not only with Roon to not be locked to something that mean expensive monthly feed and no guarantee about service in the future?
Not right now. And I wouldn't worry too much about future operability. Alternative solutions will emerge at some point in time, since we know Grimm is developing alternatives.
Hi guys, great descriptive feedback on the MU2. Please please tell me you are going to do a listening comparison video :) Not straightforward with an all-in-one + Roon server product but would love to be able to get some idea of what you experienced. Thank you and keep up the good work
We will make a sample video. Possibly the Alpha setup versus the Grimm.
There will be a sample video, not a comparison video, because that's a bit difficult to pull off in the timespan we have.
Well then, I hope you both have a very Merry Christmas from behind the cold steel bars. 😜
Thank you! One request : could you please phone a lawyer for us? 😂
@jmtennapel
LOL, I know just the guy...He's an audiophile as well! Unfortunately, I don't think he is licensed to practice law in your country, sorry! 🤷♂️
Hello guys, great video and really looking forward to the full review! As I listen to classical, jazz and mostly rock; just wondering if it would be safe to say that the MU2 suits all of these genres?
Yes. Definately
@stoneman66
I'm sorry, but the MU2 is really only best with Shoegaze & DreamPop, and not much else.
🤪
But seriously, between all of the many sub-genres of classical, jazz, and rock exists just about every genre of music.
And IME, if a particular audio component or pair of loudspeakers "dissapear" and simply "get out of the way of the music" when playing any particular genre, it will do so with ALL types.
If it doesn't, there is something else wrong within the playback system. 😉
@@bbfoto7248 well said! Slowdive, Lush and MBV happened to be my kind of music 😆👍🏼
Can you send info what track you mention for the chamber music and percussion?
Arvo Pärt - "These Words ... " (those dots are part of the title name). It is on an album called "Tractus", recently released on ECM.
@@jmtennapel thank you - really nice recording
that volume knob is way cool, but hey at least it's not €67000 like that Danish thing you posted in your website :p
Hahaha... Yeah... :-)
At Munich Jaap mentioned that he would wait until the review to say whether he prefered this to the Mola Mola. Well I've been waiting for this and the Beekhuyzen reviews for your opinions vs Chord Dave and Tambaqui. 😢 I know I'll have to listen for myself and I'm guessing that you're really excited about the MU2 but you promised..........😢😢
This is better than the Mola... There... I said it.
The return of the one box Stereo system..just add an amplifier of your choice….
Or active speakers!
@@TheAlphaAudio😳👍👍
At this performance level, it is welcome! Don't tell anyone, but I'm not very fond of big stacks of gear ;-)
I hear ya..when I was younger.room full of gear ⚙️..now in my senior years..I’m down to a headphone stack and IEM’s ☺️
Or skip that and just connect to active speakers. Some excellent choices like Dynaudio focus, or Genelec 8351B, or LS60, or Dutch and Dutch…
Wonder how this would compare with Weiss 501 or dCS Lina..
Good questions... You can only find that out by A/B testing.
Digital has come of age at last, it seems. Time for a sigh of relief. The quest ends here? Who cares. Connect to music completely. Lovely .
I heard the mu2 at the Veldhoven show, but since it wasn't compared to another streamer/dac, I have no idea what it actually does. So I agree with you that going to a demo is a treat. But an even better one is to do what you did: compare it to your known reference.
And then the price. Yes, in it's class it's probably a good deal, but for 95%of audiophiles it is still unobtainium. But with it being so far below the 50-100k you would expect for top-equipment , one can hope for a mu 0,5 for 1/4of the price....
A consolation, maybe, is that you have that same connection to music with a record player that's one twentieth of the price of a MU2. Let us not forget that vinyl elephant in the room. I am not saying that vinyl is better, but it is the same connection.
@jmtennapel
Speaking of "the connection to the music" when playing vinyl, I hope you have had a chance to hear the piano recordings on the quite rare Madeleine De Valmalète, Interprète Liszt LP.
I just acquired a copy in mint condition as a Christmas gift to myself, and even on my mediocre system, Madeleine and her piano were transported into my listening room.
Yes, there was just a little bit of emotion involved.
It's a shame there is no intermediate product between the MU1 and the MU2.
Infact it would be nice to have a Dac + Streamer but without a pre amp, in case you want to use it as a digital source on top of an integrated amp.
Grimm Audio people, if you would ever do this, the name could be MU1.5
Hi,
Perhaps this is comparable to the Linn Klimax, only for the price of the Linn you get 2 Grimm devices.
But let's be honest, the Grimm is only for a small group of music lovers.
Because 18,000 euros is a lot of money.
We can dream again.
Grtz Phil
Yes, these devices are, unfortunately, within reach of a small group within the audience of music lovers. But so are the machines that you, and others have, mentioned in the comments. One can dream, indeed.
Now I need to sell a lot of boxes to gather $ 😢
you should review some if Ian Canada stuff - he seems to make better stuff than most streamers.
If I google Ian Canada, I get hits on cheap DIY Pi based audio.
Grimm MU2 fantastic device. 18.000€.
As streamer plays Tidal , Qobuz , your music.
But 18.000€ to stream Tidal and Qobuz????
As you are a investigator, how wants to know the true value of any product, the noise of switches .... and measure and show that. Its a fact!
Its of the most relevant to know what tidal and qobuz are sending in packges of bytes over internet to my Grimm MU2. To measure that.
And Grimm MU2 AS A TOP DEVICE MUST GIVE TO HIS OWNER THE BYTES INFORMATION THAT IAM EARING AND PAYNG FOR.
Because what Im ear from that streming services is the Superlative Quality of the Streamer and Dac in this case Grimm MU2!!!!
Sound clip?
I guess you need to watch the video once again, because it is mentioned what we are going to do.
@@jmtennapeloops😅
@@jmtennapelwould love to see a livestream on streamer/DAC/Pre's, any chance?
@@REX4340 Maybe, in the future. We put it on the list.
an all in one product that does all this? - for that money most people would prefer to renovate their bathroom - but in fact, price aside, this could be the end of product reviewers and all other audio brand competition. oh my.
Yep. Disrupting device.
$27,000 here 😧
Yeah...
The problem is Pass Labs is lo-fi to begin with. Not a very useful observation. Tell us how it compares to world class preamps like those from Dartzeel, Soulution, Gryphon, CH Precision, FM Acoustics, etc. Does it play in that league?
XP-12 is indeed weak. Should be compared to minimum a XP-32 if PassLabs.