I can't even imagine how disheartening it must've been for Henry Cavill to finally say "yes" to the black Adam cameo only for the film to flop and then do a flash cameo and be told it's going to be cut from the film. Dude must've been beyond done playing superman.
Black Adam still did better than Gunn’s DC movies. And Black Adam didn’t get a China release. The Rock is very popular in China and would’ve made profit.
It shouldnt have flopped that badly, the worst part was the weird terrorist antogonists mercneary run country, it was just plain odd, but the over all plot was good.
Biggest hope I have is that in ten years when there’s more nostalgia for his Superman WB brings him back to do a hybrid adaptation of “Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?” & “Kingdom Come”
It's all James Gunn's fault ! Plus David Zaslav and all of the other WB execs who hate Henry Cavill for no good reason ! I'm sure that "SUPERMAN: LEGACY" will be either YET ANOTHER origin story that we've seen one too many times already OR it will be about SUPERMAN's SON and Lois Lane will be the star of the show talking down to the "Man Of Steel" as if he was an INcompetent fool and whatever 🙄🤦😒 ! THAT is James Gunn's style of superhero filmmaking and an extremely annoying modern day Hollywood trend ! #FIREJAMESGUNN
Cavill was so passionate about playing Superman and he was just done dirty by WB at every turn. And the same thing happened with the Witcher. I bet he's feeling pretty frustrated by the system. I just hope he can find a project to work on where his ideas and passion are not disregarded by idiot executives and braindead producers.
It's pretty obvious that out of all the people involved in the various Superman movies, pitches, etc. it's Cavill who knows the character the best, including what kind of stories would appeal to people. I wish he'd do a pitch to write, star in, and possibly direct a Superman movie.
Fortunately, the new guy David Corenswet also gets the character a lot. There are interviews from 2019 where he talks about it as his dream role and it's very insightful about it.
Man of Steel 2 will forever be one of the cancelled superhero movies I wish happened the most. Cavill had the perfect physique and facial features for the character.
@@Bulletsandblockbustersi don't agree like That i Think andrew Garfield is The Brandon routh of The Spider-Man movies and Tom Holland is The Henry Cavill of mcu
I dunno, Routh was doing a pale imitation of Reeve whereas Garfield was doing his own thing. Hollands movies have been successful tho. Garfield and Cavill’s weren’t.
I think you mean Brandon Routh is like Andrew Garfield even though Garfield had a good first movie the second one sucked. Brandon Routh had only one bad movie while Cavill had three good movies with MoS, bvs (ue) and ZSJL.
Well they did it with Chris Reeves' Superman in the 80's too... and the Schumacher Batman movies.... and Green Lantern... I read that Gunn has stipulations in his contract that he and Safran have complete control of the DCU without any studio involvement allowed. So, hopefully this is the turning point for Supes going forward!
We're going to see an even bigger screw up when Gunn's Superman movie flops. He is absolutely the WRONG man to head up a Superman film. I'd even go as far and say that Zack Snyder was the wrong choice for Superman as well. His style of films completely go against what Superman is about. MOS was great with hints of the real Superman in it but it all came crashing down with an even more broody and hopeless Superman in BVS. ZSJL was a bit better but it was too late by that point. Plus, saying Clark died in BVS completely put themselves in a major hole because Superman is back but how can Clark Kent come back after this?
@@Bulletsandblockbusters Yeah, they simply looked at the success of the MCU and decided they wanted to do that, thinking that it could be easy money. But instead of understanding what made their competitor successful (taking the time to introduce each major character in their own standalone film before finally teaming them up in the big crossover movie), they were more interested in catching up with them as quickly as possible. The failure of the DCEU proves that you need more than simply giving us iconic characters interacting with each other on the big screen; you need time, patience and planning. The development of Phase 1 of the MCU is like a child taking each little action figure, one at time, out of his plastic tub and neatly standing them up; the DCEU is like a child taking his tub and dumping them out all at once into a disorganized pile.
It's been revealed recently that the cancelled Wonder Woman 3 would've featured Cavill's Superman (along with Affleck and Ezra Miller). Cavill wasn't kidding when he said that the tease at BA was only the tip of the iceberg. Just makes this whole thing more sad.
@@joloarpia866exactly. His management team who has been subsequently fired reportedly encouraged him to announce things but he didn't have a contract.
@@alwaysxnever They probably told him to do so as a way to pressure the Studio to go forward with the plans Dwayne and Dany had for the DCEU. When it clearly backfired, Cavil realized he had been used by Dany and Dwayne and fired them. Gunn had been writing Superman Legacy six months before Black Adam was released. The studio clearly was never going to go forward with another Cavil Superman movie and had always intended for a Gunn Superman movie and possibly him at the helm of the whole DCU. They also used Cavil to try and get a bigger box office for Black Adam even though they knew they were going with whatever Gunn had in mind.
Zack Snyder was not “obsessed with putting Superman and Batman together” He was the most vocal person about wanting a direct Man of Steel sequel and not a team-up movie yet. That wasn’t Snyder’s decision, it was Warner Bros.
You know back in 2005 Empire Magazine called Cavill "the most unlucky man in Hollywood" and from a certain point of view I do feel bad for the guy... BUT... at the same time, he's had so much more success with his career than many other actors. My takeaway from his story so far is be grateful for what success you do have and move forward. Cavill is a talented man, he'll find future success.
@@bigbionkWell, Cavill owns the live action rights to the Warhammer franchise if I recall and will be a producer. So now, he has more control of how the end product is made. Unlike with Superman and The Witcher properties, where he was just an actor and had no say in the matter.
Man of Steel was supposed to be part 1 of 5 movies, Snyder originally wanted to do a trilogy of Superman movies but Warner Brothers saw the success of the Avengers and they instead wanted to jump quickly into a team-up movie. They wanted to make a Batman V Superman movie, they suggested it first and Snyder agreed to direct it while Goyer and Terrio would write it. MOS's sequel is supposed to be BVS, which is why BVS continued Superman's story as it was chapter 2 of 5. Cavill also quit playing Superman after Justice League because the new leadership under Walter Hamada, wanted to make a Supergirl movie and use the Flash as a way to replace Cavill's Superman with Supergirl. Cavill hated that and that's why he quit. In other words, MOS 2 didn't happen because of Warner Brother's short-sightedness.
His Superman script is very solid. I’m not sure about Bizarro as a villain though. I think having it focus on Clark and Kara bonding as cousins to fight Brainiac would have made a much better film. Lex Luthor being the catalyst for Brainiac’s arrival and maybe Kara’s awakening (maybe even manipulating her to fight her cousin at first) would’ve been a great set up to Superman and Luthor’s rivalry.
Man of Steel is a fantastic movie. It's the Superman movie that I had always wanted to see since I was a kid. We all deserved to see a direct sequel to it.
How so? Sup's never felt like Sup's, Lex never felt like Luthor, Jimmy was pushed out of the picture, L.Lane was stuffed into the film with nothing to do, least of all, being a journalist, the ONLY great thing in these Snider movies is Afleck as Wayne and Batman.
On the one hand doing a team up movie out of the gate probably could and would have worked it just depends on how you do it like we all saw and discussed in the Justice League Mortal video but on the other hand all in all I think it would have been smarter if Warner Bros had done Man of Steel 2 from the jump taken their time from there and build their way up to a Justice League movie
I love the fact that you referenced my other video. Shows me that we have a community growing here. And well said! It definitely could have worked. I think they just crammed way too much into bvs. Superman shouldn't have died in his second outing. Was way too early.
@@Bulletsandblockbusters hell yeah a very great community is growing here and I know right Superman dying in his second appearance was definitely way too soon , they should have waited to kill Superman off after like 9 or 10 appearances in the DCEU not his 2nd appearance 🤦
Yeah, Mortal gets a lot of flack for having a very "comic booky" script (with most of the criticism seeming to be anchored around the villain's plan involving fast food when, if they had made it today it would probably be smart phones) but in the hands of George Miller it would have been extraordinary (especially that Superman/Wonder Woman fight). I think the idea to start with Justice League and branch off movies from there worked for Mortal because Mortal made an effort in its script to explain that it took place in a world in which superheroes had been around for awhile already and we get enough backstory on them through world -building rather than exposition dumps.
nah fr Ego and Pride is the devil, how tf can you come in from nowhere and bc of your fame and notrierty put down Zachcry Levi as a fight that wouldnt match your "caliber"?
"trying to catch up to marvel" is the key phrase that sunk them. They shouldn't have looked at it as a competition. Just built their universe with patience and put as much care into each movie as possible.
Awesome job! Love these videos. I would have been cool to see a second solo Superman movie where they lightened things up a bit. As for DC following the Marvel formula for success, they had a solo Superman movie and a solo Wonder Woman movie, so it would have been nice to see a solo Batman movie as well so we could have gotten to know Affleck's Batman a little better before he started teaming up with other DC characters. I don't think solo Flash and Aquaman movies would have been totally necessary before doing the Justice League, as long as they did solo outings for the Big 3 like Marvel did with Iron Man, Captain America and Thor.
3:55 “I think you really have to look outside of the Earth, ummm, for challenges for him, because of how powerful he is.” And yet one of his main villains is Lex Luthor, a human. Hell, even in Snyder’s own movie, Batman v Superman, Superman got beat by Batman, another human. Supes can have good battles with human enemies, but Snyder isn’t competent enough to bring those stories to us.
Man of Steel was on a different, dear I say, deeper level with powerhouses like Kevin Costner and Russell Crowe. When I first saw that film at the cinema I honestly thought it'd be a trilogy like CN's Batman.
It could have been a five part saga. With Lex as the sequel villain, the real Doomsday coming to earth (it was teased in MOS. The broken moon we see on Krypton was destroyed by him) and then the saga could have concluded with Superman defeating Brainiac. They could have introduced the other heroes in separate movies and then could have had the Justice League come together after the five part Superman saga. Oh what could have been.
I'm here thanks to Charles Reacts. This is an awesome overview of what happened. Thank you for telling this (very sad) story so thoroughly. James Gunn robbed us of seeing Henry Cavill as Superman again. And probably will also prevent Gal Gadot from every making another Wonder Woman movie. What a tragedy.
Is it that difficult to understand that the Snyder films just didn't make enough box office and the studios are not obligated to spend 250$ million to appease your hurt feelings?
Zack didn't want Batman/Bruce until the end of MoS 2. The studio executives wanted to fast-track this shared universe. He/himself wanted a MoS 2 before BvS.
Henry Cavill is incredibly talented, good-looking, and passionate about the source material of his projects. But he keeps getting screwed over by directors and executives who have no respect for his projects. Just empty spectacle and trying to copy off other successful franchises. I truly think Henry should be given the chance to play Superman in a solo film one last time with a writer and director who truly respects the source material, but unfortunately, it’ll never happen.
@@matthewpunk2012Thank you for letting them know they just want to blame Zack. They are scoopers. One Day I believe this idiot will delete this stupid video. #sellsnyderversetonetflix #Restorethesnyderverse
@@matthewpunk2012 Snyder still bears responsibility for the failures of BVS. The main gripe people had in the film was how different both Superman and Batman were from their comic book counterparts. Superman can barely even be called Superman in BVS. He is broody, has no real interactions with humanity besides Lois, Lex, Martha, and Batman. He literally has no dialogue with anyone outside of those characters. He never smiles, he is constantly brooding and saying things like "Superman was never real" or "No one stays good in this world". WTF?? Superman would never say shit like that. Also, his death felt so flat at the end because we never got to see Superman actually SHOW his love for humanity and how he interacted with them and built relations with them. We were only told which just made the end of the movie so contrived. Zack should know better, it's show, don't tell. And then there is Batman. The only real problem people had with him was how he was killing people left and right. Ok, Zack made it clear that this is a more jaded and cynical Batman and was trying to regain some control because he felt like Superman was something out of his control. But Zack could have shown this without having him kill but having him be more brutal in how he dealt with criminals and having Alfred and others comment on how Bruce is going too far. I think if Zack kept the comic book identities more intact for those two and had more of a contrast where Superman was brighter and sunnier and Batman was more dark and oppressive then the movie wouldn't have been so shit on when it came out. But Zack is just so obsessed with his heroes killing people like a badass. I guess he never saw Superman vs the Elite or understood that movie/comic. You're no better than the villains if you stoop to their level and do the things they do to accomplish your goals.
Honestly, I am so glad we never got a direct sequel to Man of Steel. It was such a wrong approach for Superman, helmed by people who clearly didn’t even like the character, that I’m glad that technically that’s where it stopped. Cavill could have been a great Superman. But he got stuck with this dreck.
Cavill deserveed better its sad to see that wb rushed things to quickly and Cavill never got a sequel but heres hopeing to a new dcu that isn't rushed.
It's quite staggering. I like "muh dark/gritty" heroes, but Superman is not that. They seem to do Superman well in the DC animated films. Why is it so hard to translate that into live action? Is there ever going to be a boy-scout Superman film?
@@lucascoval828 It’s honestly embarrassing with how they thought making Superman dark and gritty to fit the modern age was a good idea, when MCU Captain America was RIGHT THERE!
Great video as always. Overall, I liked Man of Steel. However, all the destruction in the 3rd act of Man of Steel caused a lot of problems. Seems like Snyder had to scramble to find a way rectify the events that occurred prior. It still didn’t make sense to have Batman want to take out Superman. Even worse was when Batman wouldn’t even have a conversation with him. They should’ve just moved forward with a sequel with the Villain being Brainiac while introducing the real Lex Luther.
It's because if you actually understand Batman, you would know that he's a paranoid. The movie clearly indicated that Batman didn't see Superman as an evil extraterrestrial being, but if there's a 1% chance that Superman could be, then Batman wouldn't take the risk as Superman could wipe the human race in minutes. If you're gonna mention the "Martha" part that made them both BFFs, then you also have to understand this: Batman finding out that Superman has a human mother who raised him and who he cares for, made him realized that Superman could be human (in terms of morality and understanding) just as Batman himself is. This concept flies over the head of so many shallow minded movie goers, and worse of all, Marvel sheep.
@@thecall0ut From the very beginning of the movie, it’s clear that Batman took the destruction of Metropolis personal. Alfred is the one that was trying to reason with Bruce during the “1% chance” talk. A simple conversation with Superman of his purpose, intentions, etc., rather than asking him “if he bleeds” would’ve sufficed. Superman’s beef with Batman also didn’t make sense as well given that Superman’s actions indirectly resulted in a ton of deaths. Then when Superman is trying to explain himself and say he was wrong before their fight, Batman just wanted to kill him. Sorry, but Batman came across as an idiot in the movie.
@@heybrowhatup So Batman should've simply asked and then naively believe someone he doesn't know? That seems pretty dumb. 1.Superman's "actions" were beyond his control. People who complain about MOS that superman wasn't much of a "savior" can't seem to understand that he was fighting Kryptonians who are his EQUAL, and that saving others was beyond his ability when he was engaged in a fight. As for Superman's "beef" with Batman, he was doing his job as a JOURNALIST and with his sense of justice, he couldn't overlook Batman's vigilante executions. 2. As for Batman, the DEATH of Robin by the hands of the Joker is what drove his actions to brand criminals for execution. The results of the Kryptonian battle, especially the casualties who are acquainted to Bruce, is what drove him to make up his mind on "not taking any chances". In short, Batman's patience and mercy is being tested, resulting in his actions being irrational and Alfred butting heads with him throughout the movie. People's misunderstanding of BvS or lack thereof, is the reason why Marvel films are so popular for their simple plots and sprinkles of childish humor. The Extended Version of BvS , is the true product of the film without the Studio interfering to cut the film short for business purposes in expense of the quality of the story, which is a common occurrence with WB in the production of these DC films.
It's not even that Batman wouldn't have a conversation with him, it's that Superman barely even tried to have a conversation with Batman and make him see reason. All he said was "YOU DON"T UNDERSTAND!" lol. Very persuasive🙄 Then they just go on and fight with nothing else said between them lol. Superman would have been trying to explain to Bruce what was going on while trying not to fight and hurt Bruce. Zack's lack of understanding of both Superman and Batman in BVS is what killed the DCEU.
I wouldn’t say Snyder was obsessed with having Superman battle Batman because it’s been stated that he wanted to do a Man of Steel 2 first then bring on a SvB movie but Warner brothers wasn’t happy with 600 million plus from man of steel anyway the obsession was more from the studio than the director. And another thing Snyders daughter had committed suicide and this whole thing went upside down with WB messing with him so he then stepped away. Saying he just left without the entire context sounds pretty one sided. I know many dislike Snyder’s style but honestly he is the type who needs to be left alone. He and WB were not a good fit. He’ll be fine at Netflix for now.
You said Snyder "immediately suggested batman" but forgot to mention that he suggested batman to cameo at the end of man of steel 2. Maybe this would've led to batman v superman for a third movie and give more time to explore and develop superman in MoS2 while batman was gearing up off screen to take him on. i believe the studios pushed to implement more characters to jumpstart and more accurately rush the DCEU. who knows maybe it would've happened anyway its doesn't matter and unfortunately we'll never know. maybe well get Cavill in a kingdom come movie one day in the future. One can only Hope...
After seeing how depressing the first Man of Steel was, how rushed the Death of Superman was in BvS, how they rushed it again in a half assed attempt in Justice League, and how they cast Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor; I don't want them to have anything to do with Superman anymore. Keep Cavill, burn everything else with hellfire and brimstone.
Man of Steel is one of those films that get better with time. People went in expecting Nolan quality storytelling. Once those expectations die down, it's a pretty decent film underneath. It's just a matter of perceptive at the time. Introducing Batman was a bad idea. It's really what killed the DCEU. The focus on rushing out content to compete with Marvel instead of just making coherent quality kill it even faster.
I agree with that. I have a lot of misgivings on the movie and how it portrayed the character, down to the point of arguing that it’s a damn awful Superman film, but besides that? It’s perfectly fine. Decently watchable, if bland and forgettable. probably snyder’s best work,
I think if Gunn either closed out the Snyderverse with MOS2, or kept Cavill as Superman, he would engendered a lot more goodwill towards his takeover. His choice to remove Cavill embittered a lot of people, myself included, towards whatever it is he builds.
What Gunn and WB did to Cavill was the final straw for me. I put up with a lot of trash as a DC fan, but I am done with them now. Black Adam was the last DC movie I saw and I have no interest in seeing any of the movies in Gunn's reboot.
@@fattiger6957 Agreed. Gunn wants to make his own thing, which I get, it just seems short sighted and mean for what they did to Cavill, and then to straight up lie about the younger version just irks me. Gunn probably just didn’t like the fact that he didn’t personally cast Cavill.
They could've followed The Batman 2004 series's steps in introducing a shared universe. Each episode can be an introduction to a new character facing off or teaming up with Superman.
And DC wonders why they underperform compared to Marvel. Marvel listens to the fans...DC obviously doesn't. Cavill put his heart and soul into Superman and the fans recognize it. Such a disappointment that DC doesn't.
@Person-wz6iy Interesting question! Cyborg's origin story is so rich with dramatic possibilities that I'm tempted to subvert expectations and say nobody... but set up Ron Evers (alias Cyborg also) to make the film a double origin story. Depending on how far we're willing to stray from canon, Vic and Ron's first hero/villain confrontation could have been in a following Justice League or stand-alone Cyborg outing. Ahh, what could have been...
I cannot fathom a scenario where someone (other than Johnson) would think Superman vs Shazam would work as a good Superman sequel. I don’t even understand why they would think Superman would be at Amanda Walker’s beck & call at the end of Black Adam.
A Tony Scott Man of Steel movie + sequels would have been an awesome origin to the DCEU. Not totally sold on the Brainiac origin but really on board on the creation of Bizarro. :)
With some of the moronic thing Gunn has said about Superman, I have very little hope for the movie. I have a feeling we're going to see a dopey Superman that is very emotional with daddy issues while everyone else talks down to him. This is the only type of protagonists that James Gunn seems to write.
As much as I hate it because I absolutely love Henry Cavill as Superman, Gunn made the right decision. The DCEU wasn't working ( I love most of the films but the audience lost faith/interest). I just wish it was a full reboot. I hope Gunn's Superman movie is good.
WB definitely jumped the gun with trying the whole Avengers thing early. Having a Man of Steel 2 and a Ben Affleck Batman to start out could have been awesome.
The fact that Warner Brothers blamed the failure of the movies on the actors and not themselves for rushing to catch up to Marvel by skipping solo films and jumping straight to the Justice League is the real reason the DCU failed. And it also has to do with poor release date timing, kind of the same thing that happened with The Amazing Spider-Man films. With Superman clashing with Dark World, Batman v Superman clashing with Civil War, and Justice League clashing with Black Panther. Kind of set themselves up for failure from the get go.
I get people being upset that Henry Cavill never got another Superman film, but who genuinely longed for a Black Adam vs Superman film? At least with Batman vs Superman there's the huge contrast between abilities and skills, where this would be "Here's a superstrong flying man with electricity who kills vs. another superstrong flying man without electricity who kills occasionally". It's such a nothing concept. I think the Rock was desperate for this to happen just to get his production company involved in producing a Superman film and getting a huge piece of that pie, and he used "for the fans" as a cover. Cos he was somehow able to veto Shazam 2 using Hawkman in its credits scene cos the Rock's production company helped produce Black Adam and he could somehow make that call. I think the Rock wanted the influence of having a say in Superman's cinematic future, and if Black Adam hadn't bombed he probably would've got that. Whether people like James Gunn or not, I'd *easily* take his fresh version over The Rock Presents Superman anyday.
The Rock is a bald multi-millionaire who is desperate to fight Superman because he never got the chance to BE Superman. He missed his calling as Lex Luthor.
Agreed! Nobody wanted to see rock fight superman. Rock just weaselled his way into DC to get a piece of that pie like he did on the furious franchise. I'm happy the whole black adam thing never happened. But I wish we got a proper solo man of steel 2.
I think its important to emphasize Snyder was essentially pushed out of Justice League and suits tagged in Joss Whedon to rush the movie because Snyder wanted to pause for a while due to his kid passing :/
For sure, although it's also important to note that the studio didn't like what they were seeing and brought in Joss before Snyder left to work with him.
@@Bulletsandblockbusters suits didnt want their property to be associated with dark versions of the characters so Whedon was brought in mainly to save that image for rushing to copy Avengers success and selling toys among other merch. 😥
@jaywallah5917 It was simpler than that! Literally, the executives wouldn't have got a bonus that year if JL wasn't released. So they pushed out a turd!
I remember Russell Crowe saying he was going to be guiding Superman more in the Man of Steel, but didn’t really elaborate further due to either not having more information given to him or he couldn’t say anymore than that due to the contract he was under. It would have been cool to see Crowe as Jor-El again.
DC didn’t need standalone movies like Marvel. DCs characters are iconic with multiple appearances on the big and small screen. Marvels line up was the leftovers they had access to and not anywhere near as well known as DC.
Bro it’s like you completely misheard. They were gonna go with an MoS 2, it wasn’t Snyder’s “obsession” to bring in Batman. The studio pressured for BvS style team up intro film. cmon man leave the snide comments out that aren’t true
WB ruined their own reputation and undermined the talent they had under contract. WB foolishly undermined Nolan, Goyer, Snyder, Cavill, Affleck, Terrio, Jenkins, Ayers, Leto, Smith and the fans of their work. WB would oversell expectations of their own DC movies! MoS made 660mil in 2013!! That’s more than Thor or Captain America first films!! BvS made over $800 million and was undermined by WB bolstering negative criticism. Black Adam had a great opening weekend but had its theatrical release cut short. This video seems to make alot of excuses for the WB corporate machine in favor of selling more hype for James Gunn. As a fan who has actually been paying attention, I’m not sold and will wait until James Gunn actually releases a great DC movie before buying into anymore of WB internet hype. Foundation has been great and Rebel Moon looks amazing! Definitely can’t wait to watch Rebel Moon!! WB can kick rocks. Good luck Gunn, but I’m not sold.
I think a big issue was Nolan not taking control of DC, although he had no interest in it he basically got things rolling then bounced. So I feel he’s partly to blame
@@Bulletsandblockbusters that’s ridiculous. That was never Nolan’s role. He was a producer and he brought a bunch of Oscar level talent together. Way to pass the blame from WB. This catastrophe is solely at the feet of WB corporate. They have made horrible decisions from the moment they began over hyping MoS as a guaranteed billion dollar box office, before the movie was released.
I’m not passing the blame. I think DC was rudderless and Nolan was the logical choice to spearhead it considering his role in getting MOS made. Problem is after that he took a step back there was no fiege-like person to run and manage things.
The DCEU made over $800 million more at the box office with the first four films, than the MCU did with there first five films. Yes, I can accept WB had insanely high expectations, but considering they were so obsessed with comparing themselves to the MCU, what were they thinking? Sure, the reviews weren't on par with the MCU, but with conditioned critics and audience to the Marvel, and Disney's formula, what can you expect. Also, apparently Hollywood has always hated Rotten Tomatoes, so why did they care so much? They were making more money - a lot more, at the box office, with less. I don't know where the expectations for MOS came from. It made like twice the amount of Superman Returns. As for Matthew Vaughn. I like his work, but hate all the shit he's said about MOS, and don't think his style would gel with the exact same Superman fans who complain about MOS.
@@Bulletsandblockbusters Did they need a, rudder? Jim Lee's art on the Justice League storyboards for JL2 and JL3 is dated December 2015. WB would have signed off on the direction earlier than that, considering BVS got a teaser in 2013 after MOS released. It's quite apparent that there was a plan. WB just didn't stick to it, even though the DCEU was doing better at the box office - a lot better with the initial DCEU films than the first MCU's films. Why WB decided to hit the breaks with Snyder (and CO)'s slate is mindblowing stupidity. There are now more non-Snyderverse related DCEU films than Snyderverse DCEU films, but it was the Snyderverse ones that made money. Hell, the first three DCEU films made more at the box office than the last eight. Suggest you read my other comment on the comparison with the MCU. WB was "rudderless" after Aquaman (last Snyderverse film connected to ZS, and CO's slate/story narrative), because that is when the drop in the box office started, and they haven't been able to crack $400 million since. WB did this to themselves
It is rather interesting that Man of Steel which came out in 2013 and started the DCEU, dis not receive a sequel, yes Aquaman, Wonder Woman and The Suicide Squad all received films and sequels since...
Man I would definitely sacrifice all Of Gunn’s plan and Matt Reeve’s batman sequel and spinoff for a Ben Affleck’s Batman movie, Man of tomorrow, And Zack Snyder’s Justice League Sequel trilogy.
People who didn't like Henry Cavill as Superman because they think he was too dark and brooding don't understand that was the writing. If given the chance Cavil could have given us a different side of Superman we didn't get to see
So intriguing that Gunn went for the Suicide Squad sequel/reboot over Man of Steel 2. That seems like it was the only realistic point for reigniting the DCEU Superman post-Justice League, but it still would have been hampered by a COVID-era release. (Assuming the production would have followed the same timeline as The Suicide Squad, that is.)
Gunn generally wants a lot of creative freedom in his movies, I’m not surprised he picked the sequel that had the least baggage (lore-and-studio wise). Suicide Squad 1 was DOA, they didn’t care what he made as long as they got their hands on the “guardians of the galaxy guy.” If he made a Superman sequel he’d have been stuck halfway through what was then believed to be the plan for the next five years
This really hits home that the studio & Snyder had no idea how to do Supes and his stories. Such a gut punch we’ll never see this film and Cavill truly shining as Superman
I don't think Snyder was ever interested in the Superman character. He was just hired for Man of Steel only to unravel that he wanted to really do Batman. It kinda shows how Superman was treated as a plot device on both BvS and Justice League (both versions of it). Also, they kinda shot themselves in the foot by going big with Zod in MoS without establishing Lex Luthor. Not wanting to do another alien invasion story? Well, you kinda have to with Superman unless you toy around with Lex. Lex should be part of the world-building of Superman seeing as how he would be a recurring character. He has schemes and he's jealous of Superman...obsessed even. That kind of obsession leads one to find ways and means to one-up Superman. And Superman would struggle dealing with Lex because it's always going to be a more political move rather than a physical one-something that tests his morality also. A good person who has brute strength can't just beat up a "powerless" human being. I think a plot involving Lex creating Metallo (something akin to Robocop's origin but imagine if Robocop had gone rogue) would've been a good first film, and it would've made a better use of the title, "Man of STEEL". Something that loosely adapts Brian Azarello's Lex Luthor: Man of Steel story beats for the Lex Luthor arc of the film. And the Dwayne Johnson discussion...oh man, how he missed the point. I agree that having Shazam and Black Adam be introduced in different films sounds right. However, his idea that Superman vs Black Adam would've drawn a huge crowd is nothing short of hubris on his part. I think people were more excited about Shazam and Black Adam facing against each other. That had been the tease years ago, even before the first Shazam film was made. But it also didn't help that WB was scrambling to fix their existing universe, it really was just on life support from the start. The subsequent actions were almost about course corrections which is rarely going to be good.
Um no. Snyder delivered the most epic superman that’s still being talked about ten years later. Unlike Brandon routh superman that just faded. It was WB that had no idea how to do supes and the franchise. And that’s a fact based off Snyder departing in 2017 and all the film that flopped thereafter (save Aquaman that wann worked close with Snyder)
I'm sad for Cavill, but happy Dwayne wasn't able to ruin DCEU even further. No one cared about Black Adam so his refusal to appear in Shazam because he wanted to fight Superman was absurd.
Well, the Rock's ego got the best of him and look how that turned out. I heard that he's now taking the walk of shame and having to go back and work with his arch-nemisis, Vin Diesel on another Fast and Furious schlock-fest.
As much as I like Cavill in Black Adam, it should have been Shazam( original captain Marvel). I don’t know why they needed to put Superman as his equal when Shazam was always his equal.
Vaughn saying he wants a colorful and bright superman. You had that. For 4 movies. Then you had superman returns. No one saw or cared for it. Man of Steel was great. Snyder should've continued.
@@ripvanwinkle91 Exactly. Even the suit look muted compared to Reeve's suit. The main gripe I hear about Superman returns was that it was just plain boring and I agree. I fell asleep halfway through it.
DC should've never got Zack Snyder to handle DCEU to begin with, the guy was only interested in making his edgy emo fanfiction, and he's also a salty person who's unhappy people compared his Watchmen with Batman Begin and famously said if he's making Batman, he would've make it even darker like having him get r*ped in prison for example
@@Cere6l when have I ever suggested that? I swear to god you can always spot a brainless fanboy when they're so easily triggered they just make the dumbest argument ever
You got one thing wrong. Snyder did not want Batman. He wanted a sequel to MOS. The studio was disappointed MOS did not make a billion. So they brilliantly thought putting Batman in the next one would ensure a big box office. Alas, just shy of a billion. Which led to another change, and another, and another, etc. Every mistake, was because of greedy, thick skulled execs at WB.
Maybe the folks at DC should hold off on using Brainiac and find a different villain to use for a sequel. Because I swear it seems like just mentioning wanting to use Brainiac in a movie is almost like a curse for DC - like saying “MacBeth” when you’re about to act in the play lol
MoS is a masterpiece and I'm a huge Snyder fan and I cannot wait for Rebel Moon. That said I'm not a Superman fan at all never liked the character since I don't like Superheroes, I'm a martial artist enthusiasts. However Snyder's version and Cavill performance made me care.
Yeah, sadly the DC movies feel off beat somehow. Idk if it's the tone, the storytelling, the lack of understanding of the character by the writers, but the movies feel frivolous and too serious for what they are.
![Man of Steel - Opening (Krypton) [Part 1]](/img/1.gif)
I can't even imagine how disheartening it must've been for Henry Cavill to finally say "yes" to the black Adam cameo only for the film to flop and then do a flash cameo and be told it's going to be cut from the film. Dude must've been beyond done playing superman.
yet they add all 5 decades of superman to the timeline shift- its horrible what they did to him
Black Adam still did better than Gunn’s DC movies. And Black Adam didn’t get a China release. The Rock is very popular in China and would’ve made profit.
I bet Cavill has sworn never to work with WB ever again. They spent years treating him horribly.
@@gabaghoul23 Horrible isnt the word. Shameful. Dishonest. Shitty.
It shouldnt have flopped that badly, the worst part was the weird terrorist antogonists mercneary run country, it was just plain odd, but the over all plot was good.
Hearing cavill talk about his hopes for superman breaks my heart . This man deserved better
He understood the character too and also understood that they had yet to capture him properly too, which he was eager to do
@@Bulletsandblockbusters I wish the internet could give cavill a hug
Biggest hope I have is that in ten years when there’s more nostalgia for his Superman WB brings him back to do a hybrid adaptation of “Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?” & “Kingdom Come”
It's all James Gunn's fault ! Plus David Zaslav and all of the other WB execs who hate Henry Cavill for no good reason ! I'm sure that "SUPERMAN: LEGACY" will be either YET ANOTHER origin story that we've seen one too many times already OR it will be about SUPERMAN's SON and Lois Lane will be the star of the show talking down to the "Man Of Steel" as if he was an INcompetent fool and whatever 🙄🤦😒 ! THAT is James Gunn's style of superhero filmmaking and an extremely annoying modern day Hollywood trend !
#FIREJAMESGUNN
Cavill was so passionate about playing Superman and he was just done dirty by WB at every turn. And the same thing happened with the Witcher. I bet he's feeling pretty frustrated by the system.
I just hope he can find a project to work on where his ideas and passion are not disregarded by idiot executives and braindead producers.
It's pretty obvious that out of all the people involved in the various Superman movies, pitches, etc. it's Cavill who knows the character the best, including what kind of stories would appeal to people. I wish he'd do a pitch to write, star in, and possibly direct a Superman movie.
He tried. They shut him down.
Fortunately, the new guy David Corenswet also gets the character a lot. There are interviews from 2019 where he talks about it as his dream role and it's very insightful about it.
@@misterchris3491lmao no.
Man of Steel 2 will forever be one of the cancelled superhero movies I wish happened the most. Cavill had the perfect physique and facial features for the character.
he is a BEAST
That and justice league mortal. Those are my top 2.
Snyder and WB had rushed the universe
how about solo batfleck movie? 😒
Agree
Cavill deserved a solo second film.
💯
He deserved a better first film.
@@RichardM-kv4uuhe deserved a good first film
Cavil is the best Superman we’ve ever seen.
@@BravosReviewshow, have you ever read a superman book?
Henry Cavill is like Andrew Garfield both love the character but got screwed by the studio and circumstances😔
Good comparison
@@Bulletsandblockbustersi don't agree like That i Think andrew Garfield is The Brandon routh of The Spider-Man movies and Tom Holland is The Henry Cavill of mcu
I dunno, Routh was doing a pale imitation of Reeve whereas Garfield was doing his own thing. Hollands movies have been successful tho. Garfield and Cavill’s weren’t.
tom holland is the best spiderman- hands down
I think you mean Brandon Routh is like Andrew Garfield even though Garfield had a good first movie the second one sucked. Brandon Routh had only one bad movie while Cavill had three good movies with MoS, bvs (ue) and ZSJL.
Still incredible how WB screwed things up so badly with the most famous superhero of all time.
Depressed me to think about
Well they did it with Chris Reeves' Superman in the 80's too... and the Schumacher Batman movies.... and Green Lantern... I read that Gunn has stipulations in his contract that he and Safran have complete control of the DCU without any studio involvement allowed. So, hopefully this is the turning point for Supes going forward!
@@detroitdiezel7856it won’t be though. Gunn is a one trick pony and he will deliver nothing but a comedy. Which didn’t work for his tss
It was obvious they have no patience in making the same formula as Marvel. Several stand alone movie cumulating in Justice League. And it's sad.
We're going to see an even bigger screw up when Gunn's Superman movie flops. He is absolutely the WRONG man to head up a Superman film. I'd even go as far and say that Zack Snyder was the wrong choice for Superman as well. His style of films completely go against what Superman is about. MOS was great with hints of the real Superman in it but it all came crashing down with an even more broody and hopeless Superman in BVS. ZSJL was a bit better but it was too late by that point. Plus, saying Clark died in BVS completely put themselves in a major hole because Superman is back but how can Clark Kent come back after this?
Both Cavill and Affleck were very passionate about their respective characters. It's sad that they got treated like this.
DC and WB's handling of their cinematic universe is the perfect example of the phrase "walk before you can run."
💯
@@Bulletsandblockbusters Yeah, they simply looked at the success of the MCU and decided they wanted to do that, thinking that it could be easy money. But instead of understanding what made their competitor successful (taking the time to introduce each major character in their own standalone film before finally teaming them up in the big crossover movie), they were more interested in catching up with them as quickly as possible. The failure of the DCEU proves that you need more than simply giving us iconic characters interacting with each other on the big screen; you need time, patience and planning. The development of Phase 1 of the MCU is like a child taking each little action figure, one at time, out of his plastic tub and neatly standing them up; the DCEU is like a child taking his tub and dumping them out all at once into a disorganized pile.
It's been revealed recently that the cancelled Wonder Woman 3 would've featured Cavill's Superman (along with Affleck and Ezra Miller). Cavill wasn't kidding when he said that the tease at BA was only the tip of the iceberg. Just makes this whole thing more sad.
but still he didnt sign an exclusive contract for more dc movies at that time.
@@joloarpia866exactly. His management team who has been subsequently fired reportedly encouraged him to announce things but he didn't have a contract.
@@alwaysxnever The Rock and Dany García basically screwed Henry Cavill and the fans, plain and simple.
@@alwaysxnever They probably told him to do so as a way to pressure the Studio to go forward with the plans Dwayne and Dany had for the DCEU. When it clearly backfired, Cavil realized he had been used by Dany and Dwayne and fired them. Gunn had been writing Superman Legacy six months before Black Adam was released. The studio clearly was never going to go forward with another Cavil Superman movie and had always intended for a Gunn Superman movie and possibly him at the helm of the whole DCU. They also used Cavil to try and get a bigger box office for Black Adam even though they knew they were going with whatever Gunn had in mind.
The hits keep coming. I don’t get how you make one or two of these a week but keep at it. You’re becoming one of my favorite channels.
Thank you!
Hell yeah. Same here!
Zack Snyder was not “obsessed with putting Superman and Batman together”
He was the most vocal person about wanting a direct Man of Steel sequel and not a team-up movie yet.
That wasn’t Snyder’s decision, it was Warner Bros.
THANK YOU! SOMEONE WHO GET IT!
Yeah, they rushed to BVS because they naively thought it would make one billion and beat MCU
Have you been following at 2:00?😂😂
Kinda why Batman seemed like an afterthought…
Warner bros was so desperate with catching up to Marvel
Cavill seems to have genuine passion for Superman. It's a shame he's no longer involved.
You know back in 2005 Empire Magazine called Cavill "the most unlucky man in Hollywood" and from a certain point of view I do feel bad for the guy... BUT... at the same time, he's had so much more success with his career than many other actors. My takeaway from his story so far is be grateful for what success you do have and move forward. Cavill is a talented man, he'll find future success.
Well said
hopefully the warhammer movies will do Henry Cavill justice
@@Bulletsandblockbusters Thanks.
@@bigbionk I hope so too.
@@bigbionkWell, Cavill owns the live action rights to the Warhammer franchise if I recall and will be a producer. So now, he has more control of how the end product is made. Unlike with Superman and The Witcher properties, where he was just an actor and had no say in the matter.
Cavil deserved a proper sequel and that sounded deadly 😭
Man of Steel was supposed to be part 1 of 5 movies, Snyder originally wanted to do a trilogy of Superman movies but Warner Brothers saw the success of the Avengers and they instead wanted to jump quickly into a team-up movie. They wanted to make a Batman V Superman movie, they suggested it first and Snyder agreed to direct it while Goyer and Terrio would write it. MOS's sequel is supposed to be BVS, which is why BVS continued Superman's story as it was chapter 2 of 5.
Cavill also quit playing Superman after Justice League because the new leadership under Walter Hamada, wanted to make a Supergirl movie and use the Flash as a way to replace Cavill's Superman with Supergirl. Cavill hated that and that's why he quit.
In other words, MOS 2 didn't happen because of Warner Brother's short-sightedness.
I love Matthew Vaughn so I would love to know what his Superman would have been!
His Superman script is very solid. I’m not sure about Bizarro as a villain though. I think having it focus on Clark and Kara bonding as cousins to fight Brainiac would have made a much better film. Lex Luthor being the catalyst for Brainiac’s arrival and maybe Kara’s awakening (maybe even manipulating her to fight her cousin at first) would’ve been a great set up to Superman and Luthor’s rivalry.
He was one of my top choices to make a Superman movie. His style would fit very well with the character and universe.
Cavill was perfect as Superman, just a shame the films he was in weren't very good. I still hope he plays Bond one day - Great video once again!
Thanks!
man of steel was dope AF bro- WAY better than anything else they put out
I feel the closest he’ll ever get is The Man from UNCLE.
lmao stop it you Reeve stans , MOS is the best superman movie ever not those 70s psycho who killed a powerless zod with a smile
@@KestraBeats Whereas in MOS, Superman kills 10s of 1000s of people then snaps Zod's neck. Snyder stans really need to think before they post.
I remember reading that Metallo was supposed to be one of the villains for MoS2.
Warner Bros would have been able to capitalize on Marvel fatigue had they did their own universe with solo movies mixed in.
Man of Steel is a fantastic movie. It's the Superman movie that I had always wanted to see since I was a kid. We all deserved to see a direct sequel to it.
I loved it in theatres. Was a great ride!
A shitty bleak one that butchers every character in it?
How so? Sup's never felt like Sup's, Lex never felt like Luthor, Jimmy was pushed out of the picture, L.Lane was stuffed into the film with nothing to do, least of all, being a journalist, the ONLY great thing in these Snider movies is Afleck as Wayne and Batman.
it was OK, it had a host of problems.
You've always wanted to see Jonathan Kent tell Clark to let a bus full of kids drown so he could hide his secret?
On the one hand doing a team up movie out of the gate probably could and would have worked it just depends on how you do it like we all saw and discussed in the Justice League Mortal video but on the other hand all in all I think it would have been smarter if Warner Bros had done Man of Steel 2 from the jump taken their time from there and build their way up to a Justice League movie
I love the fact that you referenced my other video. Shows me that we have a community growing here. And well said! It definitely could have worked. I think they just crammed way too much into bvs. Superman shouldn't have died in his second outing. Was way too early.
@@Bulletsandblockbusters hell yeah a very great community is growing here and I know right Superman dying in his second appearance was definitely way too soon , they should have waited to kill Superman off after like 9 or 10 appearances in the DCEU not his 2nd appearance 🤦
Thanks for saying so! And I agree re: superman dying.
Yeah, Mortal gets a lot of flack for having a very "comic booky" script (with most of the criticism seeming to be anchored around the villain's plan involving fast food when, if they had made it today it would probably be smart phones) but in the hands of George Miller it would have been extraordinary (especially that Superman/Wonder Woman fight). I think the idea to start with Justice League and branch off movies from there worked for Mortal because Mortal made an effort in its script to explain that it took place in a world in which superheroes had been around for awhile already and we get enough backstory on them through world -building rather than exposition dumps.
@@Cotygeekthat Superman vs Wonder Woman would have been epic
Dwayne is the real life villain he should be playing in the movies
When's he going to be asked about the Vince Mcmahon allegations?
nah fr Ego and Pride is the devil, how tf can you come in from nowhere and bc of your fame and notrierty put down Zachcry Levi as a fight that wouldnt match your "caliber"?
@peter-vd8mxImagine how wrestling fans feel now
Shitty actor
"trying to catch up to marvel" is the key phrase that sunk them.
They shouldn't have looked at it as a competition. Just built their universe with patience and put as much care into each movie as possible.
Awesome job! Love these videos. I would have been cool to see a second solo Superman movie where they lightened things up a bit. As for DC following the Marvel formula for success, they had a solo Superman movie and a solo Wonder Woman movie, so it would have been nice to see a solo Batman movie as well so we could have gotten to know Affleck's Batman a little better before he started teaming up with other DC characters. I don't think solo Flash and Aquaman movies would have been totally necessary before doing the Justice League, as long as they did solo outings for the Big 3 like Marvel did with Iron Man, Captain America and Thor.
Don't forget Hulk!
3:55 “I think you really have to look outside of the Earth, ummm, for challenges for him, because of how powerful he is.”
And yet one of his main villains is Lex Luthor, a human. Hell, even in Snyder’s own movie, Batman v Superman, Superman got beat by Batman, another human.
Supes can have good battles with human enemies, but Snyder isn’t competent enough to bring those stories to us.
Gunn was already working on Superman Legacy when Cavill shot his Black Adam and Flash cameos. WBD lied to Henry and the Fans. Unforgivable.
Henry Cavill embodies SUPERMAN, he is SUPERMAN. Too bad the studio screwed him over, he deserves better.
Agreed! Best since Reeve
Yeah, Henry Cavil looks the part of Supes. Shame he was given such poor material
well now david cornswete is our superman
@@Cobracatcommander🤣🤣🤣🤣 dude will be the dean cain of Superman
@@Cobracatcommander another guy who looks the part, that’s for surw
Man of Steel was on a different, dear I say, deeper level with powerhouses like Kevin Costner and Russell Crowe. When I first saw that film at the cinema I honestly thought it'd be a trilogy like CN's Batman.
It should’ve been
It could have been a five part saga. With Lex as the sequel villain, the real Doomsday coming to earth (it was teased in MOS. The broken moon we see on Krypton was destroyed by him) and then the saga could have concluded with Superman defeating Brainiac. They could have introduced the other heroes in separate movies and then could have had the Justice League come together after the five part Superman saga. Oh what could have been.
I'm here thanks to Charles Reacts. This is an awesome overview of what happened. Thank you for telling this (very sad) story so thoroughly. James Gunn robbed us of seeing Henry Cavill as Superman again. And probably will also prevent Gal Gadot from every making another Wonder Woman movie. What a tragedy.
Thanks for stopping by!
Is it that difficult to understand that the Snyder films just didn't make enough box office and the studios are not obligated to spend 250$ million to appease your hurt feelings?
Mos was the best superman movie since the original, the music for mos rocked to
Zack didn't want Batman/Bruce until the end of MoS 2. The studio executives wanted to fast-track this shared universe. He/himself wanted a MoS 2 before BvS.
Exactly!
I was looking for this comment
Thank you. But this dummy is stylishly. Blaming Zack
He stole a hard drive. He didn’t create these characters. Frak him.
Seriously like he didn't even done research before doing this video and just talking nonsense.
Henry Cavill is incredibly talented, good-looking, and passionate about the source material of his projects. But he keeps getting screwed over by directors and executives who have no respect for his projects. Just empty spectacle and trying to copy off other successful franchises. I truly think Henry should be given the chance to play Superman in a solo film one last time with a writer and director who truly respects the source material, but unfortunately, it’ll never happen.
Agreed. I feel bad for the guy. He seems to be the only one who cares.
The damage BvS caused to DC cannot be understated
Basically killed it before it started
The damage *WB caused to the DCEU is still understated, it's been over seven years and people are still blaming Zack Snyder
@@BulletsandblockbustersBvS grossed close to 900 million (more than the last 3 DCEU movies combined), BvS didn't kill anything, the studio did
@@matthewpunk2012Thank you for letting them know they just want to blame Zack. They are scoopers. One Day I believe this idiot will delete this stupid video. #sellsnyderversetonetflix #Restorethesnyderverse
@@matthewpunk2012 Snyder still bears responsibility for the failures of BVS. The main gripe people had in the film was how different both Superman and Batman were from their comic book counterparts. Superman can barely even be called Superman in BVS. He is broody, has no real interactions with humanity besides Lois, Lex, Martha, and Batman. He literally has no dialogue with anyone outside of those characters. He never smiles, he is constantly brooding and saying things like "Superman was never real" or "No one stays good in this world". WTF?? Superman would never say shit like that. Also, his death felt so flat at the end because we never got to see Superman actually SHOW his love for humanity and how he interacted with them and built relations with them. We were only told which just made the end of the movie so contrived. Zack should know better, it's show, don't tell.
And then there is Batman. The only real problem people had with him was how he was killing people left and right. Ok, Zack made it clear that this is a more jaded and cynical Batman and was trying to regain some control because he felt like Superman was something out of his control. But Zack could have shown this without having him kill but having him be more brutal in how he dealt with criminals and having Alfred and others comment on how Bruce is going too far. I think if Zack kept the comic book identities more intact for those two and had more of a contrast where Superman was brighter and sunnier and Batman was more dark and oppressive then the movie wouldn't have been so shit on when it came out. But Zack is just so obsessed with his heroes killing people like a badass. I guess he never saw Superman vs the Elite or understood that movie/comic. You're no better than the villains if you stoop to their level and do the things they do to accomplish your goals.
Honestly, I am so glad we never got a direct sequel to Man of Steel. It was such a wrong approach for Superman, helmed by people who clearly didn’t even like the character, that I’m glad that technically that’s where it stopped. Cavill could have been a great Superman. But he got stuck with this dreck.
Cavill deserveed better its sad to see that wb rushed things to quickly and Cavill never got a sequel but heres hopeing to a new dcu that isn't rushed.
This is easily becoming my favourite channel
Thank you!!!
Cavill managed to look more like Superman when not playing him, than when playing him.
Strangely, I agree with this.
I was thinking the same thing as I watched this.
It's quite staggering.
I like "muh dark/gritty" heroes, but Superman is not that.
They seem to do Superman well in the DC animated films.
Why is it so hard to translate that into live action?
Is there ever going to be a boy-scout Superman film?
That don't even make sense
@@lucascoval828 It’s honestly embarrassing with how they thought making Superman dark and gritty to fit the modern age was a good idea, when MCU Captain America was RIGHT THERE!
Great video as always.
Overall, I liked Man of Steel. However, all the destruction in the 3rd act of Man of Steel caused a lot of problems. Seems like Snyder had to scramble to find a way rectify the events that occurred prior. It still didn’t make sense to have Batman want to take out Superman. Even worse was when Batman wouldn’t even have a conversation with him.
They should’ve just moved forward with a sequel with the Villain being Brainiac while introducing the real Lex Luther.
Thanks and agreed. Batman’s motivation made no sense.
It's because if you actually understand Batman, you would know that he's a paranoid. The movie clearly indicated that Batman didn't see Superman as an evil extraterrestrial being, but if there's a 1% chance that Superman could be, then Batman wouldn't take the risk as Superman could wipe the human race in minutes.
If you're gonna mention the "Martha" part that made them both BFFs, then you also have to understand this: Batman finding out that Superman has a human mother who raised him and who he cares for, made him realized that Superman could be human (in terms of morality and understanding) just as Batman himself is. This concept flies over the head of so many shallow minded movie goers, and worse of all, Marvel sheep.
@@thecall0ut From the very beginning of the movie, it’s clear that Batman took the destruction of Metropolis personal. Alfred is the one that was trying to reason with Bruce during the “1% chance” talk. A simple conversation with Superman of his purpose, intentions, etc., rather than asking him “if he bleeds” would’ve sufficed. Superman’s beef with Batman also didn’t make sense as well given that Superman’s actions indirectly resulted in a ton of deaths. Then when Superman is trying to explain himself and say he was wrong before their fight, Batman just wanted to kill him. Sorry, but Batman came across as an idiot in the movie.
@@heybrowhatup So Batman should've simply asked and then naively believe someone he doesn't know? That seems pretty dumb.
1.Superman's "actions" were beyond his control. People who complain about MOS that superman wasn't much of a "savior" can't seem to understand that he was fighting Kryptonians who are his EQUAL, and that saving others was beyond his ability when he was engaged in a fight. As for Superman's "beef" with Batman, he was doing his job as a JOURNALIST and with his sense of justice, he couldn't overlook Batman's vigilante executions.
2. As for Batman, the DEATH of Robin by the hands of the Joker is what drove his actions to brand criminals for execution. The results of the Kryptonian battle, especially the casualties who are acquainted to Bruce, is what drove him to make up his mind on "not taking any chances". In short, Batman's patience and mercy is being tested, resulting in his actions being irrational and Alfred butting heads with him throughout the movie.
People's misunderstanding of BvS or lack thereof, is the reason why Marvel films are so popular for their simple plots and sprinkles of childish humor. The Extended Version of BvS , is the true product of the film without the Studio interfering to cut the film short for business purposes in expense of the quality of the story, which is a common occurrence with WB in the production of these DC films.
It's not even that Batman wouldn't have a conversation with him, it's that Superman barely even tried to have a conversation with Batman and make him see reason. All he said was "YOU DON"T UNDERSTAND!" lol. Very persuasive🙄 Then they just go on and fight with nothing else said between them lol. Superman would have been trying to explain to Bruce what was going on while trying not to fight and hurt Bruce. Zack's lack of understanding of both Superman and Batman in BVS is what killed the DCEU.
I wouldn’t say Snyder was obsessed with having Superman battle Batman because it’s been stated that he wanted to do a Man of Steel 2 first then bring on a SvB movie but Warner brothers wasn’t happy with 600 million plus from man of steel anyway the obsession was more from the studio than the director. And another thing Snyders daughter had committed suicide and this whole thing went upside down with WB messing with him so he then stepped away. Saying he just left without the entire context sounds pretty one sided. I know many dislike Snyder’s style but honestly he is the type who needs to be left alone. He and WB were not a good fit. He’ll be fine at Netflix for now.
I didn't go into more detail of Snyder leaving because I cover it in some of the other videos on this channel in more detail.
This
@@Bulletsandblockbusters So why did you get the details wrong?
Loved Henry as Superman
You said Snyder "immediately suggested batman" but forgot to mention that he suggested batman to cameo at the end of man of steel 2. Maybe this would've led to batman v superman for a third movie and give more time to explore and develop superman in MoS2 while batman was gearing up off screen to take him on. i believe the studios pushed to implement more characters to jumpstart and more accurately rush the DCEU. who knows maybe it would've happened anyway its doesn't matter and unfortunately we'll never know. maybe well get Cavill in a kingdom come movie one day in the future. One can only Hope...
This makes me so sad. Cavill was my generations Superman. MOS 1 was so good.
I'm so glad, I've found this channel.
It's just so exciting watching someone making videos about the things i get excited for.
Welcome aboard and thank you! Happy to have you.
I KNEW that open pod in Man of Steel was supposed to be something.🤔
After seeing how depressing the first Man of Steel was, how rushed the Death of Superman was in BvS, how they rushed it again in a half assed attempt in Justice League, and how they cast Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor; I don't want them to have anything to do with Superman anymore. Keep Cavill, burn everything else with hellfire and brimstone.
Man of Steel is one of those films that get better with time. People went in expecting Nolan quality storytelling. Once those expectations die down, it's a pretty decent film underneath. It's just a matter of perceptive at the time. Introducing Batman was a bad idea. It's really what killed the DCEU.
The focus on rushing out content to compete with Marvel instead of just making coherent quality kill it even faster.
I agree with that. I have a lot of misgivings on the movie and how it portrayed the character, down to the point of arguing that it’s a damn awful Superman film, but besides that? It’s perfectly fine. Decently watchable, if bland and forgettable. probably snyder’s best work,
I think if Gunn either closed out the Snyderverse with MOS2, or kept Cavill as Superman, he would engendered a lot more goodwill towards his takeover. His choice to remove Cavill embittered a lot of people, myself included, towards whatever it is he builds.
My sentiments exactly. Gunn shouldn’t have been allowed near the DCEU.
What Gunn and WB did to Cavill was the final straw for me. I put up with a lot of trash as a DC fan, but I am done with them now. Black Adam was the last DC movie I saw and I have no interest in seeing any of the movies in Gunn's reboot.
@@fattiger6957 Agreed. Gunn wants to make his own thing, which I get, it just seems short sighted and mean for what they did to Cavill, and then to straight up lie about the younger version just irks me. Gunn probably just didn’t like the fact that he didn’t personally cast Cavill.
Great job as usual, one of my favorite channels on RUclips
Wow, thanks!
They could've followed The Batman 2004 series's steps in introducing a shared universe. Each episode can be an introduction to a new character facing off or teaming up with Superman.
Most underrated show ever
And DC wonders why they underperform compared to Marvel. Marvel listens to the fans...DC obviously doesn't. Cavill put his heart and soul into Superman and the fans recognize it. Such a disappointment that DC doesn't.
I’ve been looking forward to this video!!! Well done!
Thanks!
A solo Cyborg flick could have been SO good
💯
I was REALLY looking forward to Ray Fisher getting a standalone Cyborg film. He was the best thing about the Justice League movie.
@@detroitdiezel7856 agreed!
Who would be the villain though? As I'm not too familiar with Cyborg's rogues gallery.
@Person-wz6iy Interesting question! Cyborg's origin story is so rich with dramatic possibilities that I'm tempted to subvert expectations and say nobody... but set up Ron Evers (alias Cyborg also) to make the film a double origin story. Depending on how far we're willing to stray from canon, Vic and Ron's first hero/villain confrontation could have been in a following Justice League or stand-alone Cyborg outing. Ahh, what could have been...
I cannot fathom a scenario where someone (other than Johnson) would think Superman vs Shazam would work as a good Superman sequel.
I don’t even understand why they would think Superman would be at Amanda Walker’s beck & call at the end of Black Adam.
Cavill and Andrew Garfield deserved better
A Tony Scott Man of Steel movie + sequels would have been an awesome origin to the DCEU. Not totally sold on the Brainiac origin but really on board on the creation of Bizarro. :)
Very sad story, but I’m also very excited for Legacy.
Nah. I done with WB
I have high hopes for Legacy. The casting is already fantastic and with Gunn and Safran behind the scenes, I know it's going to be good.
@@detroitdiezel7856lol so good like tss and Shazam 2 that were financial flops?
With some of the moronic thing Gunn has said about Superman, I have very little hope for the movie. I have a feeling we're going to see a dopey Superman that is very emotional with daddy issues while everyone else talks down to him. This is the only type of protagonists that James Gunn seems to write.
As much as I hate it because I absolutely love Henry Cavill as Superman, Gunn made the right decision. The DCEU wasn't working ( I love most of the films but the audience lost faith/interest). I just wish it was a full reboot. I hope Gunn's Superman movie is good.
WB definitely jumped the gun with trying the whole Avengers thing early. Having a Man of Steel 2 and a Ben Affleck Batman to start out could have been awesome.
"The hierarchy in the dc universe is about to change." - the Rock
"You're goddamn right." - -Walter White- James Gunn
What we got instead was Murderman v. Captain Hypocrate
Man of Steel aged well. Watched it yesterday it deserved a sequel.
Henry Cavil got $250,000 for taking ONE step forward and saying 10 words....
I want to cry
😂
The fact that Warner Brothers blamed the failure of the movies on the actors and not themselves for rushing to catch up to Marvel by skipping solo films and jumping straight to the Justice League is the real reason the DCU failed. And it also has to do with poor release date timing, kind of the same thing that happened with The Amazing Spider-Man films. With Superman clashing with Dark World, Batman v Superman clashing with Civil War, and Justice League clashing with Black Panther. Kind of set themselves up for failure from the get go.
We were robbed! We should have gotten Man of Steel 2 and Batman instead of the Flash and Black Adam movies.
This is my new favorite channel on RUclips! Keep up the great work. 👍
Thanks! Will do! And welcome aboard!
Bro. It wasn't Zack Snyders call to make BvS...
Now you're rewriting history.
Snyder literally has said this, so no I'm not lol
@@Bulletsandblockbusters AFTER THE FACT THE STUDIO ASKED FOR IT! 🤡
I get people being upset that Henry Cavill never got another Superman film, but who genuinely longed for a Black Adam vs Superman film? At least with Batman vs Superman there's the huge contrast between abilities and skills, where this would be "Here's a superstrong flying man with electricity who kills vs. another superstrong flying man without electricity who kills occasionally". It's such a nothing concept.
I think the Rock was desperate for this to happen just to get his production company involved in producing a Superman film and getting a huge piece of that pie, and he used "for the fans" as a cover. Cos he was somehow able to veto Shazam 2 using Hawkman in its credits scene cos the Rock's production company helped produce Black Adam and he could somehow make that call. I think the Rock wanted the influence of having a say in Superman's cinematic future, and if Black Adam hadn't bombed he probably would've got that.
Whether people like James Gunn or not, I'd *easily* take his fresh version over The Rock Presents Superman anyday.
The Rock is a bald multi-millionaire who is desperate to fight Superman because he never got the chance to BE Superman.
He missed his calling as Lex Luthor.
Agreed! Nobody wanted to see rock fight superman. Rock just weaselled his way into DC to get a piece of that pie like he did on the furious franchise. I'm happy the whole black adam thing never happened. But I wish we got a proper solo man of steel 2.
I think its important to emphasize Snyder was essentially pushed out of Justice League and suits tagged in Joss Whedon to rush the movie because Snyder wanted to pause for a while due to his kid passing :/
For sure, although it's also important to note that the studio didn't like what they were seeing and brought in Joss before Snyder left to work with him.
@@Bulletsandblockbusters suits didnt want their property to be associated with dark versions of the characters so Whedon was brought in mainly to save that image for rushing to copy Avengers success and selling toys among other merch. 😥
@jaywallah5917 It was simpler than that! Literally, the executives wouldn't have got a bonus that year if JL wasn't released. So they pushed out a turd!
I remember Russell Crowe saying he was going to be guiding Superman more in the Man of Steel, but didn’t really elaborate further due to either not having more information given to him or he couldn’t say anymore than that due to the contract he was under. It would have been cool to see Crowe as Jor-El again.
Here’s my ideas for a Man Of Steel Trilogy:
Man Of Steel 1: General Zod
Man Of Steel 2: Brainiac
Man Of Steel 3: Doomday
DC didn’t need standalone movies like Marvel. DCs characters are iconic with multiple appearances on the big and small screen. Marvels line up was the leftovers they had access to and not anywhere near as well known as DC.
Bro it’s like you completely misheard. They were gonna go with an MoS 2, it wasn’t Snyder’s “obsession” to bring in Batman. The studio pressured for BvS style team up intro film. cmon man leave the snide comments out that aren’t true
WB ruined their own reputation and undermined the talent they had under contract. WB foolishly undermined Nolan, Goyer, Snyder, Cavill, Affleck, Terrio, Jenkins, Ayers, Leto, Smith and the fans of their work. WB would oversell expectations of their own DC movies! MoS made 660mil in 2013!! That’s more than Thor or Captain America first films!! BvS made over $800 million and was undermined by WB bolstering negative criticism. Black Adam had a great opening weekend but had its theatrical release cut short. This video seems to make alot of excuses for the WB corporate machine in favor of selling more hype for James Gunn. As a fan who has actually been paying attention, I’m not sold and will wait until James Gunn actually releases a great DC movie before buying into anymore of WB internet hype. Foundation has been great and Rebel Moon looks amazing! Definitely can’t wait to watch Rebel Moon!! WB can kick rocks. Good luck Gunn, but I’m not sold.
I think a big issue was Nolan not taking control of DC, although he had no interest in it he basically got things rolling then bounced. So I feel he’s partly to blame
@@Bulletsandblockbusters that’s ridiculous. That was never Nolan’s role. He was a producer and he brought a bunch of Oscar level talent together. Way to pass the blame from WB. This catastrophe is solely at the feet of WB corporate. They have made horrible decisions from the moment they began over hyping MoS as a guaranteed billion dollar box office, before the movie was released.
I’m not passing the blame. I think DC was rudderless and Nolan was the logical choice to spearhead it considering his role in getting MOS made. Problem is after that he took a step back there was no fiege-like person to run and manage things.
The DCEU made over $800 million more at the box office with the first four films, than the MCU did with there first five films. Yes, I can accept WB had insanely high expectations, but considering they were so obsessed with comparing themselves to the MCU, what were they thinking? Sure, the reviews weren't on par with the MCU, but with conditioned critics and audience to the Marvel, and Disney's formula, what can you expect. Also, apparently Hollywood has always hated Rotten Tomatoes, so why did they care so much? They were making more money - a lot more, at the box office, with less. I don't know where the expectations for MOS came from. It made like twice the amount of Superman Returns. As for Matthew Vaughn. I like his work, but hate all the shit he's said about MOS, and don't think his style would gel with the exact same Superman fans who complain about MOS.
@@Bulletsandblockbusters Did they need a, rudder? Jim Lee's art on the Justice League storyboards for JL2 and JL3 is dated December 2015. WB would have signed off on the direction earlier than that, considering BVS got a teaser in 2013 after MOS released. It's quite apparent that there was a plan. WB just didn't stick to it, even though the DCEU was doing better at the box office - a lot better with the initial DCEU films than the first MCU's films. Why WB decided to hit the breaks with Snyder (and CO)'s slate is mindblowing stupidity. There are now more non-Snyderverse related DCEU films than Snyderverse DCEU films, but it was the Snyderverse ones that made money. Hell, the first three DCEU films made more at the box office than the last eight. Suggest you read my other comment on the comparison with the MCU. WB was "rudderless" after Aquaman (last Snyderverse film connected to ZS, and CO's slate/story narrative), because that is when the drop in the box office started, and they haven't been able to crack $400 million since. WB did this to themselves
It is rather interesting that Man of Steel which came out in 2013 and started the DCEU, dis not receive a sequel, yes Aquaman, Wonder Woman and The Suicide Squad all received films and sequels since...
Man I would definitely sacrifice all Of Gunn’s plan and Matt Reeve’s batman sequel and spinoff for a Ben Affleck’s Batman movie, Man of tomorrow, And Zack Snyder’s Justice League Sequel trilogy.
The Rock practically ruined the DCEU. Fight me
People who didn't like Henry Cavill as Superman because they think he was too dark and brooding don't understand that was the writing. If given the chance Cavil could have given us a different side of Superman we didn't get to see
So intriguing that Gunn went for the Suicide Squad sequel/reboot over Man of Steel 2. That seems like it was the only realistic point for reigniting the DCEU Superman post-Justice League, but it still would have been hampered by a COVID-era release. (Assuming the production would have followed the same timeline as The Suicide Squad, that is.)
I think if he did superman he would have wanted to do his own take on it, which seems to be what ended up happening once he took over.
Gunn generally wants a lot of creative freedom in his movies, I’m not surprised he picked the sequel that had the least baggage (lore-and-studio wise). Suicide Squad 1 was DOA, they didn’t care what he made as long as they got their hands on the “guardians of the galaxy guy.” If he made a Superman sequel he’d have been stuck halfway through what was then believed to be the plan for the next five years
It wasnt Snyder's call to do BvS instead of MoS2. Why w Snyder have wanted to "catch up" to Marvel? The studio execs wanted that.
If only Zack and wb slowed down they could’ve had their own universe
Agreed. They rushed things to catch up
It wasn't Zack. It was all WBs fault
It’s all WB’s fault.
People say it wasn’t his fault but it was because he was the one who added Batman in it and wb allowed and he also killed Superman
Zack was forced to catch up out of WB’s request
I was an extra on BvS in that scene at the end.. Henry was SO amazing on set. He truly deserved far more than he got at the end of his run.
That’s so cool
This really hits home that the studio & Snyder had no idea how to do Supes and his stories. Such a gut punch we’ll never see this film and Cavill truly shining as Superman
I don't think Snyder was ever interested in the Superman character. He was just hired for Man of Steel only to unravel that he wanted to really do Batman. It kinda shows how Superman was treated as a plot device on both BvS and Justice League (both versions of it).
Also, they kinda shot themselves in the foot by going big with Zod in MoS without establishing Lex Luthor. Not wanting to do another alien invasion story? Well, you kinda have to with Superman unless you toy around with Lex. Lex should be part of the world-building of Superman seeing as how he would be a recurring character. He has schemes and he's jealous of Superman...obsessed even. That kind of obsession leads one to find ways and means to one-up Superman. And Superman would struggle dealing with Lex because it's always going to be a more political move rather than a physical one-something that tests his morality also. A good person who has brute strength can't just beat up a "powerless" human being.
I think a plot involving Lex creating Metallo (something akin to Robocop's origin but imagine if Robocop had gone rogue) would've been a good first film, and it would've made a better use of the title, "Man of STEEL". Something that loosely adapts Brian Azarello's Lex Luthor: Man of Steel story beats for the Lex Luthor arc of the film.
And the Dwayne Johnson discussion...oh man, how he missed the point. I agree that having Shazam and Black Adam be introduced in different films sounds right. However, his idea that Superman vs Black Adam would've drawn a huge crowd is nothing short of hubris on his part. I think people were more excited about Shazam and Black Adam facing against each other. That had been the tease years ago, even before the first Shazam film was made.
But it also didn't help that WB was scrambling to fix their existing universe, it really was just on life support from the start. The subsequent actions were almost about course corrections which is rarely going to be good.
Um no. Snyder delivered the most epic superman that’s still being talked about ten years later. Unlike Brandon routh superman that just faded. It was WB that had no idea how to do supes and the franchise. And that’s a fact based off Snyder departing in 2017 and all the film that flopped thereafter (save Aquaman that wann worked close with Snyder)
@@mistermastermind528🤣🤣🤣 bro wrote a whole book to say a whole bunch of nothing
It's "The Rock" in a Black Adam costume. That's it. Black Adam is a Captain Marvel villain anyway, not Superman.
💯
All they had to do was base the DCEU off the DCAU smh
Or do what the Arrowverse did
Fr or get people that actually liked the characters or else you'd get stuff like the most of the dceu, godzilla 98 or the bayformers movies
I'm sad for Cavill, but happy Dwayne wasn't able to ruin DCEU even further. No one cared about Black Adam so his refusal to appear in Shazam because he wanted to fight Superman was absurd.
I felt that black Adam should have been the big bad and brought the justice league together with Shazam as well
That would’ve been cool and way better than that cartoon steppenwolf
Well, the Rock's ego got the best of him and look how that turned out. I heard that he's now taking the walk of shame and having to go back and work with his arch-nemisis, Vin Diesel on another Fast and Furious schlock-fest.
As much as I like Cavill in Black Adam, it should have been Shazam( original captain Marvel). I don’t know why they needed to put Superman as his equal when Shazam was always his equal.
Vaughn saying he wants a colorful and bright superman. You had that. For 4 movies. Then you had superman returns. No one saw or cared for it. Man of Steel was great. Snyder should've continued.
Superman returns was trying hard to be different things, it was not bright or "colorful", it looked muted at points as well
@@ripvanwinkle91 Exactly. Even the suit look muted compared to Reeve's suit. The main gripe I hear about Superman returns was that it was just plain boring and I agree. I fell asleep halfway through it.
Warner Bros doesn't deserve D.C.
DC should've never got Zack Snyder to handle DCEU to begin with, the guy was only interested in making his edgy emo fanfiction, and he's also a salty person who's unhappy people compared his Watchmen with Batman Begin and famously said if he's making Batman, he would've make it even darker like having him get r*ped in prison for example
And why? And hire you instead?
@@Cere6l when have I ever suggested that? I swear to god you can always spot a brainless fanboy when they're so easily triggered they just make the dumbest argument ever
@@tangroro have you ever lose some you love? If you don’t have an answer that, truly you need to see a psychiatrist.
You got one thing wrong.
Snyder did not want Batman. He wanted a sequel to MOS. The studio was disappointed MOS did not make a billion. So they brilliantly thought putting Batman in the next one would ensure a big box office. Alas, just shy of a billion. Which led to another change, and another, and another, etc.
Every mistake, was because of greedy, thick skulled execs at WB.
Zack wasn't the reason for bvs before mos2 you got that so wrong! It was the studio. Zack wanted mos2 first
Maybe the folks at DC should hold off on using Brainiac and find a different villain to use for a sequel. Because I swear it seems like just mentioning wanting to use Brainiac in a movie is almost like a curse for DC - like saying “MacBeth” when you’re about to act in the play lol
Haha
Even deadpool knew they did henry dirty
A Tony Scott MoS would have been excellent
MoS is a masterpiece and I'm a huge Snyder fan and I cannot wait for Rebel Moon. That said I'm not a Superman fan at all never liked the character since I don't like Superheroes, I'm a martial artist enthusiasts. However Snyder's version and Cavill performance made me care.
Yeah, sadly the DC movies feel off beat somehow. Idk if it's the tone, the storytelling, the lack of understanding of the character by the writers, but the movies feel frivolous and too serious for what they are.
Snyder didn't want Batman yet. he wanted him after his solo fil, The Batman. WB forced him to put Batman into the universe sooner bc Batman = Money
Zack even fought WB executives this fool that did this video are part of the problem lying and hyping about what they don’t know.
Cavill will go down in history as the most mishandled superhero IP 😥