to add to the pool's of wreakage, if your leveling up tailoring or leatherworking the trunks you get from those pools have a high drop chance of mats for the profession. I love doing coast runs in stranglethorn vale because you can get tons of pools to spawn, every pool has a chance of dropping a trunk with iron trunks in the north, and mithril trunks along the south parts where the pirates hang out, I was able to completely skip the mageweave portion of tailoring for the amount of bolts I got from the trunks, and im currently sitting at 280 with the runecloth bolts I got as well.
I never cared for fishing until trying classic.... Fishing actually has a purpose and i dont feel like my fishing wastes time anymore. I can use these fish for so many things and they are tied to different times of day, seasons, different types of water, its amazing.
Did the fishing quest at 225 and the only fish i had trouble with and needed a bobber for was the feralas fish. As for the swamp of sorrows part the you dont need to fish in the circle he drew but the whole coast. I just ran the north wall of the zone til i got to the water and there werent any monsters to avoid near the water here.
Great guide man. I am not a very experienced player. I am newish and I love the game. But every guide I find is all about later game stuff and I could not find another guide for any profession that covers the beginning this well. If you read this, awesome job and I appreciate it!
When TBC launched back in the day I decided to fish and made my dranai mage the week after release. Love fishing be it in the open world or the real world, something about fishing in wow though just brings a peace, I think knowing I can moonfire any wildlife that wants my fish takes away some of the anxiety
Keep the twink guide until battlegrounds release, you should however do a best in slot/items to keep until said battlegrounds arrive. Like don't sell x weapon until x patch type of deal.
Everything Nat Pagle related and fishing was made by a Horde player Every fishing place for the Nat Pagle quest is near Horde FP and Horde get a good pole for free
Yeah I was disappointed too. It really has no tie-in to any other content, so I was confused why it was pushed later other than to coincide with vanilla's original timetables. I feel like it could've absolutely started from phase 1.
Classic must have increased drop rates, i caught all the fish i needed within 5 casts, except the swamp of sorrows one. That one took me 15 casts, 10 casts in the southeast corner, moved to the middle between the murlocs and got it on the 5th cast.
My toons are already working on fishing. Just selling the raw fish is very lucrative for me. Thanks for filling in some blanks for me. Be well and happy gaming.
Fishing is great for Hunter pets like cat pets. I fished my butt off just for my cat pet since you can put fish on your bar next to feed pet works wonders to keep that pet happy. I suggest if you tend to sit and fish bring music and fish to your delight it will get boring but very rewarding when you get the fish off hands.
One thing you didn't mention is that chest can drop out of any pool. I spent 45 min run up and down the coast of Tanaris just fishing pools and got 24 mithril chests.
I'm very annoyed, as alliance, until the Fishing contest is released, there's no way to get to 425 fishing. So I can't guarantee success for those patches of water essence in Azshara, but horde can.
@@123R1CC it really is absurd though given that it could be over a year before the fishing contest is released. It's a little known gargantuan horde advantage.
I was shocked how lucrative fishing junk pools can be. The gear drops you can find in chests are pretty superior, it seems. From what I've seen, they're greens, but they're reall GOOD greens.
No, you fish 1-290 in barrens for deviate fish then u go to azshara. Yeah you can do cooking on the side, but you can also buy cooking meat 1-300 for like 10g in the AH. So better go Deviate fish all the way. Its like 30% droprate outside of the pools.
When it comes to sagefish Silverpine, the shore of lake Lordamere in particular has loads and loads of it, it starts almost at the undercity border and continues up to Dalaran.
Very nice video man. This one is being saved to a playlist for future watching. So much nice crisp clean information. Thanks for taking the time to make it.
I have a question that might be worth answering if you make a misc. gold making guide: Ill use an example, but this actually goes for a lot of different things. So, I got myself a Disgusting Oozeling, yay me, but would it be better for me to sell that off now, as there is very little supply, or should I wait for AQ40 to come out, when there is a better demand? As i said, this could also be used for nature/frost resist gear, or other things.
10:53 to be honest, thats exactly how I fish, at least until 225. One Question though: What exactly does fishing skill? Does it only decrease the Chance that fishes get away? Does it increase the Chance that rare fishes bite? Or does it increase the speed whereby fishes bite?
It increases your chance of catching the fish, when you have a high lvl fishing skill and go fish for lower lvl fish so to say, they can't get away when hooked. So even if you missed the animation of having something on your hook, you still catch it when your fishing skill is a lot higher then needed to catch the fish. For fish that require 300 fishing, you would need 450 fishing for them not getting of your hook anymore. Which isn't possible to get in Classic of course, but gave it as a example of how it works. What surprises me the most in every fishing guide I've seen so far is nobody mentioning the fact you can also "catch" items while fishing and those items include rare and epic world drops. I have done quite some fishing back in the day, most of the time I was fishing while waiting to get into BG's (which could take hours sometimes) and got a epic sword one time (lvl 35 ish something, can't remember). Of course the chance of getting a epic item while fishing is extremely low, but if you fish quite enough you'll notice how often you actually also catch green or sometimes blue items. I'm not 100% sure, but I think fishing skill has something to do with the chances of getting items while fishing as my fishing was at skill lvl 350 (STV fishing items and enchant, no lures), when I got the epic sword.
@Smiddy Wesson The speed at which they bite is completely random, even when you maxed out fishing and go over the 300 cap with items or lures. You can still wait till the last moment before one bites or even get no bite at all.
@Smiddy Wesson The pattern in WoW is called RNG, just like all the mobs have their RNG range of items they can drop, so does fishing has it's own RNG and also includes not catching anything or if you're extremely lucky fishing a epic world drop item. I think but not 100% sure, that the items you can fish up are tied to lvl zones just like the epic world drop items are tied to lvl zones. Can't say for sure, as I have only ever caught 1 epic item which was a sword of lvl 36 I think (don't remember the lvl exactly, between lvl 30 and 40) when I was fishing at a random spot in STV back in the day.
@Smiddy Wesson Fishing can save you a lot of money which you would spend on food otherwise (unless you're a Mage) and I've sold many stacks of fish to both the vendors and on the AH.
can you choose your reward if you manage to win the extravaganza? the fish is super cool, and i would always prefer it always the rod, but since im playing druid now, its kind of a waste^^ or is it better than aquatic form?
Nice vid, as always (thanks!) but a bit inaccurate. Nat Pagle's quest requires 225, there is no fishing tournament yet and Stonescale eel/oil is worth pennies (below 20s a piece).
Yeah im struggling to sell stonescale eel for 10s a piece. Nightfin soup goes for 18-25S each on my server and i got a killer spot where i get 3 stacks an hour
I just spent nearly 4 hours, went through over 400 traps, using 8 water breathing elixir before I finally got the big iron pole. .05% is more like it...
Hey punkrat.... how do you pronounce the word, 'Devious'? is a long 'e' sound or a flat 'e' sound? I ask because your 'deviate' is a mutation of the familiar pronunciation, and this is several you tube commenters with unique approaches to sighting a word then saying it...... I wonder if it's a phenomenon. When you said, 'piece de resistance', you ticked me with your expertise.... ok enough of me razzing, thanks for the prolevel content on the biggest game program in the world. I just finally hit the sub button and am the 100 liker of this vid apparently.
How can you miss the most lucrative thing in fishing to talk how about? You forgot entirely to mention Azshara's "Patch of Elemental Water" pools to fish in, running that swimming circuit can next you 5+ essence of water in one loop of the bay of storms. If noone else is giving you competition on spawns!
lv 52 on My hunter now. 300/300 skinning 300/300 Cooking 300/300 Fishing. I earned enough money like this to buy my mount, full Nightscape set, Helm of Fire, Warmonger(+3%hit 2h Sword), and two pieces of Beaststalker gear. Fishing is amazing and heavily slept on (As a Troll Hunter, just using Warmonger, Rune of the Guard Captain, and a Bow I'm basically at hitcap. Leaving me free to gear how I want)
@@theoneandonlyworldruler418 ahh nice. I was there already and git the flight point. Got the name of the npc in your memory? Would be nice to know aswell
Back in the day, you didn't need to go to any specific zone to level your fishing because skill-ups were based on "Successful Catches" not "what you catch". As such you could technically level your fishing from 1-300 standing in your faction's major cities. (except for the 225 Nat Pagle quest) In fact it was technically faster to skill-up in town because when the fishing is trivial and success is high. They just come further apart, for instance you might have to catch 5 per skill-up, then near 300 you may need to catch 8 per skill-up.
![DONT Vendor These Items While Leveling In Classic WoW!! [Secret Value]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_iEoUPKjs4A/mqdefault.jpg)
to add to the pool's of wreakage, if your leveling up tailoring or leatherworking the trunks you get from those pools have a high drop chance of mats for the profession. I love doing coast runs in stranglethorn vale because you can get tons of pools to spawn, every pool has a chance of dropping a trunk with iron trunks in the north, and mithril trunks along the south parts where the pirates hang out, I was able to completely skip the mageweave portion of tailoring for the amount of bolts I got from the trunks, and im currently sitting at 280 with the runecloth bolts I got as well.
@Smiddy Wesson the mobs are usually lv40 plus, some of the Naga are about lv44
To clarify, in order to be offered the Nat Pagle quest that unlocks 226-300 fishing, you need exactly 225 fishing and need to be level 35+.
Was just about to run out there so I could lvl my fishing while doing the quest. Thanks :)
I never cared for fishing until trying classic.... Fishing actually has a purpose and i dont feel like my fishing wastes time anymore. I can use these fish for so many things and they are tied to different times of day, seasons, different types of water, its amazing.
Did the fishing quest at 225 and the only fish i had trouble with and needed a bobber for was the feralas fish. As for the swamp of sorrows part the you dont need to fish in the circle he drew but the whole coast. I just ran the north wall of the zone til i got to the water and there werent any monsters to avoid near the water here.
Great guide man. I am not a very experienced player. I am newish and I love the game. But every guide I find is all about later game stuff and I could not find another guide for any profession that covers the beginning this well. If you read this, awesome job and I appreciate it!
When speaking, WPL requires more syllables to spell out than actually saying Western Plaguelands.
It's pronounced "wuppul"
I correct people on RUclips, you do it poorly, shut up. Thank you.
@@tipsysmichigander6483 You're triggered pretty easily.
dont think you get the reference.
@@tipsysmichigander6483 ahh, if it's a reference then I'm not familiar with it.
The BEST fishing place to level 1-100+ Rut'theran Village
that fishing boss in ZG drops tome of Polymorph: Turtle which is the most sought after thing from it
Good timing, I was just maxing all my professions this morning and maybe this will make me want the last 115 levels
I was already leveling fishing a lot, but you super sold me at the end.
I'm playing a druid an I want that staff that looks like a fishing pole.
When TBC launched back in the day I decided to fish and made my dranai mage the week after release. Love fishing be it in the open world or the real world, something about fishing in wow though just brings a peace, I think knowing I can moonfire any wildlife that wants my fish takes away some of the anxiety
Finally the gold for the fish will rise because of this video! Thanks!
Or prices for fish will crash because more people fish
Something from El's old fishing site - (current fishing skill-75)/25=Number of of fish needed for skill up
Probably one of the most useful guides I've seen for classic so far.
Just a big note on this, you need to be level 35 AND be 225 fishing to get the Nat Pagle quest, you can't get the quest at 205 fishing
Keep the twink guide until battlegrounds release, you should however do a best in slot/items to keep until said battlegrounds arrive.
Like don't sell x weapon until x patch type of deal.
tl;dw shadowfang dagger from SFK.
Everything Nat Pagle related and fishing was made by a Horde player
Every fishing place for the Nat Pagle quest is near Horde FP and Horde get a good pole for free
Exactly what I think!
Payback for the ali bowman in av
That designer's name is Pat Nagle.
Stone Talon is nice. I fish in the goblin area in the debris and oil pools. I got 9 trunks in 30 minutes with lots of leather and cloth.
Fishing in wow is alot like fishing in real life honestly, time consuming but relaxing and fun
Stonescale Eels go insane when it's raining.
Yo guys, *breathes* punkratwithanothervideo.
Pretty sure the fishing extravaganza hasn't been added to Classic yet. Here's to hoping they'll add it soon!
yep , i heard phase 3-4 it comes
Yeah me and a bunch of people sat on the coast the first Sunday with no fish haha
@@primecalibur that sucks
I talked to GM about this and its not in the game yet, he said it will be probably added with ZG.
Yeah I was disappointed too. It really has no tie-in to any other content, so I was confused why it was pushed later other than to coincide with vanilla's original timetables. I feel like it could've absolutely started from phase 1.
Water Walking potion is not a thing in Classic. Maybe in private servers but its only a shaman spell with a reagan cost
it definitely was in vanilla, patch 1.13.x so if it's not there yet, it will be.
Bruh literally just open the game its in there i made them on my alchemist
cooking and fishing are the most under rated things in classic
Hi Punkrat,
I enjoy your nice content and chilled video style. Keep it up!
Cheers from Germany.
You do the best WoW videos. Keep it up!
No he don't
All his videos have wrong information in them
@@dubious6718 such as???
You must not watch many content creators lol
Classic must have increased drop rates, i caught all the fish i needed within 5 casts, except the swamp of sorrows one. That one took me 15 casts, 10 casts in the southeast corner, moved to the middle between the murlocs and got it on the 5th cast.
10:52 I AM LRRR, RULER OF THE PLANET OMICRON PERSEI 8
My toons are already working on fishing. Just selling the raw fish is very lucrative for me. Thanks for filling in some blanks for me. Be well and happy gaming.
Fishing is great for Hunter pets like cat pets. I fished my butt off just for my cat pet since you can put fish on your bar next to feed pet works wonders to keep that pet happy. I suggest if you tend to sit and fish bring music and fish to your delight it will get boring but very rewarding when you get the fish off hands.
One thing you didn't mention is that chest can drop out of any pool. I spent 45 min run up and down the coast of Tanaris just fishing pools and got 24 mithril chests.
Dont you have to have 225 fishing to get the quest?
Yes you do
I can confirm, had to grind 10 levels of fishing before I could get the quest at 225
Elixir of water walking was never added to the game it was removed between beta and launch
Beep beep Im a fish
I need to win that fishing event
I'm very annoyed, as alliance, until the Fishing contest is released, there's no way to get to 425 fishing. So I can't guarantee success for those patches of water essence in Azshara, but horde can.
You're just playing the wrong faction. Just switch to the correct faction. Ez monay.
@@123R1CC it really is absurd though given that it could be over a year before the fishing contest is released. It's a little known gargantuan horde advantage.
@@KineticSymphony Loktar Ogar my friend XD
Another great thing about fishing is the willingness to wpvp, I ain't giving up my fishing node.
You should make a video showing people where to get all the cooking recipes for fishing, that way it would be easier to cook everything you catch
Who is watching this video while fishing? :)
THE BASS IS RAW
You donkey!
13:13 fish you need for hat/boot 19 twink
I keep mousing over the images in your video to check out the stats :D
The Sartheris Strand is up by the naga in Desolace not at Shadowprey Village but north of it , thought I might just point that out
I fished it within that circle
It's near Shadowprey Village but possible also spawns where you said.
If your minimap says Sar'theris Strand, you can catch it. No need to be in any circle
My dad bod is ready for some extreme anglin.
I was shocked how lucrative fishing junk pools can be. The gear drops you can find in chests are pretty superior, it seems. From what I've seen, they're greens, but they're reall GOOD greens.
I've never done fishing but might have to give it a try now
No, you will be fine without it, join the #NoFishing league
dude the background soundtrack is amazing
nice video dude ... cant wait for the twink one :P
on my server only the deviate fish goes for decent money in the auction house. the other fishes are just not profitable
No, you fish 1-290 in barrens for deviate fish then u go to azshara. Yeah you can do cooking on the side, but you can also buy cooking meat 1-300 for like 10g in the AH. So better go Deviate fish all the way. Its like 30% droprate outside of the pools.
When it comes to sagefish Silverpine, the shore of lake Lordamere in particular has loads and loads of it, it starts almost at the undercity border and continues up to Dalaran.
greater sage or regular?
Elixir of Waterwalking doesn't exist until Wrath of the Lich King, and requires different Ingredients.
leveling fishing while i listen to this lol 170 and so many to go :'D
Very nice video man. This one is being saved to a playlist for future watching. So much nice crisp clean information. Thanks for taking the time to make it.
Do a video on All transform item/drink like noggenfogger elixir and orb of deception and where to ger Them. Mabey take size portion in to the video 2
Love the videos dude , good stuff
I have a question that might be worth answering if you make a misc. gold making guide: Ill use an example, but this actually goes for a lot of different things.
So, I got myself a Disgusting Oozeling, yay me, but would it be better for me to sell that off now, as there is very little supply, or should I wait for AQ40 to come out, when there is a better demand?
As i said, this could also be used for nature/frost resist gear, or other things.
is the fishing tournament LIVE in classic realms? or do we have to waint till X phase?
What's a lur?
Nice video if I get back into classic well I definitely will probably get back into fishing make money, good specs off the food
Great job, this is very useful!
10:53 to be honest, thats exactly how I fish, at least until 225.
One Question though: What exactly does fishing skill? Does it only decrease the Chance that fishes get away? Does it increase the Chance that rare fishes bite? Or does it increase the speed whereby fishes bite?
It increases your chance of catching the fish, when you have a high lvl fishing skill and go fish for lower lvl fish so to say, they can't get away when hooked. So even if you missed the animation of having something on your hook, you still catch it when your fishing skill is a lot higher then needed to catch the fish.
For fish that require 300 fishing, you would need 450 fishing for them not getting of your hook anymore. Which isn't possible to get in Classic of course, but gave it as a example of how it works.
What surprises me the most in every fishing guide I've seen so far is nobody mentioning the fact you can also "catch" items while fishing and those items include rare and epic world drops. I have done quite some fishing back in the day, most of the time I was fishing while waiting to get into BG's (which could take hours sometimes) and got a epic sword one time (lvl 35 ish something, can't remember). Of course the chance of getting a epic item while fishing is extremely low, but if you fish quite enough you'll notice how often you actually also catch green or sometimes blue items. I'm not 100% sure, but I think fishing skill has something to do with the chances of getting items while fishing as my fishing was at skill lvl 350 (STV fishing items and enchant, no lures), when I got the epic sword.
@Smiddy Wesson The speed at which they bite is completely random, even when you maxed out fishing and go over the 300 cap with items or lures. You can still wait till the last moment before one bites or even get no bite at all.
@Smiddy Wesson The pattern in WoW is called RNG, just like all the mobs have their RNG range of items they can drop, so does fishing has it's own RNG and also includes not catching anything or if you're extremely lucky fishing a epic world drop item.
I think but not 100% sure, that the items you can fish up are tied to lvl zones just like the epic world drop items are tied to lvl zones.
Can't say for sure, as I have only ever caught 1 epic item which was a sword of lvl 36 I think (don't remember the lvl exactly, between lvl 30 and 40) when I was fishing at a random spot in STV back in the day.
@Smiddy Wesson Fishing can save you a lot of money which you would spend on food otherwise (unless you're a Mage) and I've sold many stacks of fish to both the vendors and on the AH.
can you choose your reward if you manage to win the extravaganza? the fish is super cool, and i would always prefer it always the rod, but since im playing druid now, its kind of a waste^^ or is it better than aquatic form?
Nice vid, as always (thanks!) but a bit inaccurate. Nat Pagle's quest requires 225, there is no fishing tournament yet and Stonescale eel/oil is worth pennies (below 20s a piece).
Yeah im struggling to sell stonescale eel for 10s a piece. Nightfin soup goes for 18-25S each on my server and i got a killer spot where i get 3 stacks an hour
@@MrJigab00 what's the spot if u don't mind sharing
Elixir of Water Walking was removed in Beta.
Bah, the fact that it doesn't exists doesn't stops people from liking it specifically!
@@dushas9871 This is supposed to be a Classic guide.
That elixir came in TBC
Ty for the informative and entertaining vid!
Nice french ShunkRat! Greetings from France.
Really helpful!
Your pronunciation for "Pièce de résistance" was spot on. Got some french roots?
Exactly my thoughts lol, It confused me a lot, not used to hear a good english and french accent in the same sentance :D
i think he lives in mtl
Talinthonis yet he can't even pronounce the word deviate
I assume he is from Montreal, since the symbol below the K in Punkrat is the City of Montreal logo that can be found everywhere here.
The 5% drop on the crates is def wrong,
I just spent nearly 4 hours, went through over 400 traps, using 8 water breathing elixir before I finally got the big iron pole. .05% is more like it...
Hey punkrat.... how do you pronounce the word, 'Devious'? is a long 'e' sound or a flat 'e' sound? I ask because your 'deviate' is a mutation of the familiar pronunciation, and this is several you tube commenters with unique approaches to sighting a word then saying it...... I wonder if it's a phenomenon. When you said, 'piece de resistance', you ticked me with your expertise.... ok enough of me razzing, thanks for the prolevel content on the biggest game program in the world. I just finally hit the sub button and am the 100 liker of this vid apparently.
Rainface Atriarch Devious is pronounced “Deevieous” while Deviate is pronounced “Daeviete”
What's the fishing requirement for the Nat Pagle quest to unlock 300 fishing? is it 200? 225? The video never mentions it.
225
Gahz'ranka also drops Tome of Polymorph: Turtle
stonescale eels can be found at all times??? its just nightfins and sunscales that are time restricted
For the undead starting zone I got my fishing up to a 103. Lvl 13... I might have a fishing problem
lol, a fishing addiction. Actually it should help our finances.
I love fishing
I just started fishing. perfect
Nat Pagle is evil. He requires you to be 255/255 to get the quest, has you fish all over the world, while you can't skill up. =)
Already got my AGM, getting my medicine pouch either today or tomorrow...just waiting on that LFH grind :(
Forgot to mention the plymorph turtle in ZG for mages :)
Fishing on Sod its years later bro but ty
How can you miss the most lucrative thing in fishing to talk how about? You forgot entirely to mention Azshara's "Patch of Elemental Water" pools to fish in, running that swimming circuit can next you 5+ essence of water in one loop of the bay of storms. If noone else is giving you competition on spawns!
Nightfins provide game gold for many of my characters. WPL. Jus sayin
Don't sneeze at fishing...my lvl 36 hunter has 260g and is maxed in both fishing and cooking.
9:09 haha "chunk"
cant decide if i wanna go mage lock or hunter lol wanting to play my first ranged in wow
Ludakritz Well almost everybody else and their mother is playing a mage because of the aoe grinding meta.
Mage is the fastest group lvler
Hunter is the fastest solo lvler
Mages appear op & most wanted in dungeon groups.
lv 52 on My hunter now. 300/300 skinning 300/300 Cooking 300/300 Fishing. I earned enough money like this to buy my mount, full Nightscape set, Helm of Fire, Warmonger(+3%hit 2h Sword), and two pieces of Beaststalker gear. Fishing is amazing and heavily slept on (As a Troll Hunter, just using Warmonger, Rune of the Guard Captain, and a Bow I'm basically at hitcap. Leaving me free to gear how I want)
Yo punk if i make you some hella background beats where do i send them for you to use in your videos?
"let's channel our inner Nat (Pagle) sounded like "let's channel our internet et" 0:26
Nat PAGGLE??? Why would you pronounce it that way? :D
But you're fine with lerr? lol
Deee vee uht fish
It's DEE VEE INT! Good job guy. Keep the videos coming.
no it's not
Its Dee vee ut
Do things happen in Canadian news?
He's watching Fox news
SNAPJAWS.... MON ! :D
Should have added where to learn all the endgame cooking recipes.
Zack Fair feralas with ship on the island buy it for 2g per
@@theoneandonlyworldruler418 ahh nice. I was there already and git the flight point. Got the name of the npc in your memory? Would be nice to know aswell
Zack Fair name i dont know. But if you come woth the ship you walk straight to the building. Inside building the staurs and then left side she stay
I hated fishing during vanilla Wow (yes my main was alch). I am much better with it now.
The Misty Reed Mahi Mahi can be caught on the entire coastline in swamp of sorrows
I've made about 3k gold fishing up essence :D
Where do you usually go to fish that?
Don't talk a load of bullshit 😂
@@InkStep Azhara, you need 300+ fishing and know how to swim fast..
what's essence?
Back in the day, you didn't need to go to any specific zone to level your fishing because skill-ups were based on "Successful Catches" not "what you catch". As such you could technically level your fishing from 1-300 standing in your faction's major cities. (except for the 225 Nat Pagle quest) In fact it was technically faster to skill-up in town because when the fishing is trivial and success is high. They just come further apart, for instance you might have to catch 5 per skill-up, then near 300 you may need to catch 8 per skill-up.
I there a way to level cooking only by using the fish you caught? if so could someone plz link me the guide? :)
Leveling cooking with only fish is the best way, for sure. classic.wowhead.com/guides/cooking-classic-wow-1-300
should maybe show where the stv guy is
He isn't called Nat Paggle