It seems that what I’m learning from your experiment videos is that nothing really matters; it will always work! That is, when YOU do it. When I do it, it never works no matter what!!
I have this going thing with my wife. I do another ridiculous experiment with bread and tell that, no way, this time this is not going to work. Yet, a perfectly good bread comes out. Last time I did ridiculous 100% hydration bread from less than ideal flour. The bread spread like a pancake on the granite stone and yet it sprung very high and had nice, perfect large holes. The more crust the better:)
@@leonardmilcin7798 I did nearly the same thing! Except 120% hydration. ..I'd say dutch oven saved me...it was like a sourdough shape with ciabatta texture ...and it was the best tasting bread I've had. I've since learned that this is called pan de cristal , I've actually got one nearly ready to go in the fridge since early hours of this morning. ..but I might not have ever tried ludicrously high hydration levels if I hadn't watched one of Sune's experiments on the subject ☺
I have spent a week researching sourdough bread after I made one loaf and if I dropped it out of the window on somebody’s head I would’ve been up on a murder charge! His are the most informative, well-thought-out and explained videos I have come across, and I have come across a lot! I think there are so many variables that go into making bread and so many recipes, you just have to find one that works for you and stick with it! And it’s very hard with the flour and yeast shortage but I think you need to make several before you even begin to get the knack of it, it is challenging. Then a Very important factor ... he mills his own flour and that is far superior to supermarket flour.
Very nice and informative video as always. It would be nice to know the effect different sources of steam make on the loaf, I see most people use a dutch oven but some people prefer a tray with water (I have seen a video where they use ice cubes, other where they use normal water and other video in which they boil the water first, all by different people). I’m really curious to know what is the best way to steam the loaf. Thanks again for the video! Have a nice day!
I would presume that the highest heat setting would bake the bread in shorter time. Did you adjust the overall bake time with each change in the temperature setting?
The 450 degree loaf appeared to have appreciably more oven spring. It looked the best to me all around too. I found out this week through the spirit of your experimentation that a good deep score is critical to exceptional oven spring and an ear. Please keep these coming.
Loved the temperature comparison video! Typically I bake my sourdough bread at 450F degrees for 15 minutes then decrease the temp 375F degrees for 20 minutes. End result a very tasty golden brown sourdough loaf of bread.
I do it at 475 for 35 mins ( for softer crust) then lower to 450 for 15 mins 600g loaves. Any less time results in the bread not being cooked all the way through.
My oven only gets as high as 230ºC, so I’m really happy to know I can get the same results as if I were baking at 260. Also, I always autolyze with salt and starter mixed in together and I’ve seen no difference from the traditional way, only that the process takes shorter. Great vid!
just baked my first sourdough DO boule from my own starter, and it came out fairly nice. I thank Sune for geeking on all things bread in his videos, where I picked up tips and info that guided my novice hands to this happy end. Always enjoyable to find a video from Sune I haven't seen.
Next experiment suggestion: For the impatient bakers, how important is allowing the bread to fully cool before slicing. What happens if you slice right away? After 30 mins? 4 hours? Next day? How is the bread right after slicing, and then how is it a day later? Could be based on time out of the oven, or on internal temp when slicing. Hope to see this one!
Kinda wish you’d baked it a bit lower ; im working with what is essentially a small gas caravan oven and swear it only gets to about 200C (it has high mid and low temperature) and have never gotten any great extensive oven spring especially without my bread also burning
Jason Wolfgang Try adding steam. Put a shallow baking tray or similar at the bottom of the oven to heat up. When you put the bread in to bake, pour just boiled water the tray. Remove the tray of water after about 10-15 minutes. You can also spray into the oven just before closing the door.
A very interesting investigation. It's a relief to know baking at 230c produces an equally good loaf as many domestic ovens will be able to reach that temperature. Thanks, Sune.
Thanks for this. I don't have a regulator on my oven, so I have to keep checking the temp. I've also found the so-called "oven baking paper" that my local baking supply sold me is more like a wonderful item to use to start my barbecue grill. It's hard to source something like the right stuff--and be sure it IS the right stuff--where I live. It's nice to know that if my oven "creeps" a bit (remember "The Shining" the movie? "Gotta watch that boiler--she'll creep on ya!") it will still work fine as long as I keep it between the 450-500 degree range. Always love your videos, especially the experiments!
I recently ruined a pair of pot holders and almost burned myself because of heating up my oven too much, so it´s great to know that 230 Celsius will give me good results! I also got some new heat-resistant gloves to avoid the risk next time. Thanks so much for your experiments!
Thanks for a really informative experiment. My small oven goes only to 232C/450F, but the bread comes out just fine. I wondered if I needed a hotter oven, and what was I missing. Your oven spring is amazing. Thanks Sune!
Love baking sourdough:) It’s great to learn new techniques and recipes from here. Since I’m into this I’ve improved so much my breads are getting pretty awesome. Thanks for the video it’s great.
Well done! I'd also be interested in the result of 300C in combo with a stone instead of steel. Next to that, really good and informative channel. Keep up this great work!
Also, what serrated knife are you using? It’s seems to be cutting those loafs like butter. Having a hard time cutting through my loafs because the crust is hard
Very informative, like all your videos. Can you please do one on Cold Oven baking. So many people these days are saying that one can do away with preheating and get the same results.
Can we please see videos of all the birds in your backyard or at the park that wait for their daily bread from you? My backyard has gone from a dead zone to the local hangout for all the birds around.
4 года назад+2
Modernist Bread differentiates between dry and wet bulb temp. Wet stuff won't get hotter than 100C anyway - though the initial burst of steam can transfer a lot of energy, the difference in conducted heat to the center isn't all that large. For me the biggest difference was in the final crust (thickness, degree of caramellization). I'm surprised you didn't find a difference there!
Would love to see where it drops off. Good to know 450F is sufficient for spring as I like to bake at that temp to avoid scorching in my oven. I wonder if spring is affected at 400F or 350F...
I have been using the "Extra Tangy" recipe from KAF. I'm not a new baker but new to sourdough. I am going to start incorporating Sune's recipes and methods. Lots of trial and error left to go for me.
@@svenska572 If you're aiming for authenticity, I wouldn't obsess over extra tang. Original California gold field starters were probably short-lived and re started from scratch again and again, taking into account the intense (100 F+) summer heat and primitive gold camp conditions. A bit of tang but not excessive. Meanwhile SF being on the foggy summer SF Bay would've been cooler, the starters long lived and hence tangier, used and refreshed daily. Most modern commercial (ConAgra style) xx-sour bread is artificially enhanced and lacking in real flavor.
I am thinking the upside down glass bowl instead of a regular Dutch oven does not retain the heat the same and therefor will provide more similar results?
I've always got the best oven spring when I put my dough in cold dutch oven into a cold oven, turning heat to 240 (max temp of my oven) and baking for 50 minutes with lid on the whole time 🤷🏼♀️
Perfect timing! After three failed attempts, this morning I succeeded in baking a beautiful loaf. But I feel it could have risen just a bit more. I was wondering is my baking temperature made a difference. Also, in this video I noticed you scored your loaf fairly deep. Does that affect the rise during baking?
@@lightdark00 Yes. I'd call my 50% whole wheat frisbee a fail! Tasted great, but I'd like to keep all my teeth in my head. My dog thinks highly of it as a homemade treat though. LOL!
i guess it's more about your dough strength (windowpane test) and proofing time/temperature.. the more air pockets you have in your dough the more it will expand.
@@RepublicTX Bake in an oven pan or simply a pot. Lid on for 20 min. Lid off until done. No problems with pancakeing, nice and reproducible shape even with high hydration dough. That's what bakeries use often and what people around where I live started using, once this simple solution became available. Honestly, I just don't understand why people even bother with trying to bake loaves. It's so much hassle for no apparent gain...
Drowned Rat I had this more or less with a 25% whole wheat, but I think the dough had over proofed and therefore had minimal rise. It spread out nicely however 🤦♀️. It was very dense and very chewy. My husband keeps reaching for that one though. Says he likes the taste. It actually does taste okay if you can get past the slightly gummy bit 😂.
Bonjour camarade Sune très réussie les Grignes des miches est ce que sur la technique de coupe appropriée et la température de chauffe il manque un certain niveau de buée a injecter..SVP ? Mr Pierre ville de Saint-Germain-en-Laye France
I have a question or maybe an experiment for you. I was curious if the inside of my Dutch oven (at temperature) was the same as the set temperature. After 45 minutes I found inside the Dutch oven was 20 C lower than the oven itself. Note. No dough inside the Dutch oven at this point. Any ideas?
@@Foodgeek I always use an oven thermometer and this one is new. Oven temperature was spot on. I think this needs investigating. I will have one thermometer inside Dutch oven and one in oven chamber for a few more cycles. I’m convinced that there is a difference.
I was really excited for this video as I expected you to go way lower in temperature than 230 degrees - which is the temperature i always start baking. Could you do a second experiment where you go lower?
This was very valuable for me. I've struggled with scorched bottoms b/c my oven runs hotter than what is dialed by ~50° F. I've decreased the temp to 450 but may go further down to 400°F. (Using Dutch oven on a pizza stone)
Very informative videos, thank you. I have a question. How do I get enough starter to make a loaf of bread every week. Or if I decide I want to make two loaves instead of one how and the loaves take half a cup of starter each and after I get the one cup of starter for the loaves do I only need to keep a couple of tablespoons in a jar then add as much flour as I think I need to make my bread the following week. Hope I'm not Confusing you too much with my question.
At night I will usually look at how much I need for baking. So if I need 200g of starter I'll measure out 50g of starter, 100g of flour and 100g water. Then I will have 250g of starter. If I only have 50g of starter, I will add more water and flour (same weight both) until I make enough. This will make it rise slower, so I might put it in my proofer, or make it early enough so that I know how much it will take to peak.
@@Foodgeek can you please answer one more question. If my starter is a lesser starter or more watery would I still follow your amounts you stated in my last question? Again thank you.
I've had my first burnt bottoms this week. Both breads contained cheese. The first was cooked at 500°C. The second was lower from 500°C to 450°C when I put the bread in. The second was better, but still had a bit of a burnt taste in parts. As I'm trying different things at the same time, it's hard to come to any conclusion, but I seems like the inclusion of cheese might change things a bit. Or maybe I'm trying too hard to have that caramelized exterior and end up leaving it in a bit too long. And/or, my oven doesn't hold it's temperature so well and the bottom element is active too often.
I just realized; when I said I got better results at lower temperatures, I meant I lowereed it to the temperature you use standard. I think I never got a scorged bottom because the tray with water in the bottom for steam kinda shielded the bottom. Informative video, thx. :)
You have been making a good case that it is hard to f*ck up bread. I used to think it was impossible to make good bread now I feel it is inevitable. Thank you, Sune.
I don't know if I missed this, but I assume you took the lid off after 20 or so minutes to let the loaves bake uncovered. If so, did you lower the temperature of the oven then?
I didn't see where you said what time you used for the three loaves. Did you adjust it for the different temperatures? I mean, did you do the hot one same times as the cooler loaf?
@@stinkyunicornsoaplab6714 But in actual practice most people adjust the baking time when they adjust the temperature. So a more useful and conclusive experiment would be one that test various baking temperatures, at their respective optimal baking times?
JFI there is an EU directive that ovens should not go above 250 deg. C. It's about energy conservation and energy efficiency. Your oven seems really quite powerful and I expect it gets back to the set temp. fairly quickly. Mine is a little less so. So I tend to go a little higher at 240 deg C to allow for the temperature drop when I open the loaf to put the dough in. Anyway, thanks for another superb test. Much appreciated. (Yes, I put a probe inside the oven... sad? LOL)
Do you keep the same temperature after unliding? I usually pre heat 260 c then i low the oven temperature to around 200 right after putting the bread cause otherwise the iron dutch oven burn the bread too fast. Thanks for the experiment. You should write an e-book summing up all this knowledge. Regards!
Hey I love your videos and had an idea for one: comparing organic versus non organic flours and how it affects the ovenspring and crumb? Or it could also be flours with and without additives? Should be interesting I think, greetings from 🇧🇪
Struggling with oven spring and suspect it may not be oven temperature that is the culprit. Perhaps I am over-fermenting. You bulk ferment at 30 C for a 25% rise. Approx. how long does that take?
I really enjoy your videos and learn so much. I live near Denver, Colorado, at about 6700 feet above sea level. It is a challenge for sure. I have mastered a pretty good loaf of sourdough bread but it is not as good as it could be. Today, I'm trying it at 500 degrees F where I usually bake it at 450. I also added 20 grams more water than I usually do (usual: 230 grams water with 460 grams bread flour). Have you ever ventured in baking at high altitude? Not sure where you live or if there are any mountains available near you. I have not looked through all of your videos, so you may have addressed this and I missed it. Thanks.
Great experiment. 👌🏻 It would be interesting to see if there’s a difference in final weight - if the lower temperature results in lower or higher loss of water.
I've never baked at such high temps. in all my MANY years of making bread. Would rather have seen comparisons like 325-375-425. Have you done cold vs preheated ovens at reasonable temp like 375?
Really? For artisinal sourdough loaves, this is quite common. Most recipes require an initial temperature of 450-500 in the first 20 minutes of cooking then turning it down to 450. If you're talking about other bread recipes with sugar, milk, eggs (enriched with fat or other sweeteners of any kind), I understand because usually those burn quite quickly in high temperatures. But with sourdough like this, the high heat is required to drive off he steam from a high-hydration dough and provide the lift + crust that is signature to a good loaf.
I agree - traditional American baking is 350ish and I find Europeans typically use hotter ovens. Maybe it's because we bake so many cookies here and 450 would be a deal-breaker. :) I do, however, find that I'm not getting awesome spring on my sourdough at 350 despite the usually expert advice from King Arthur Flour. I will try Sune's 450F method. Learning a lot here!
Here's a suggestion as I didn't see this in your library: I do overnight ferments in the refrigerator and then bake it the next day. My question: do I need to let my bread come down to room temp or can I bake it while it's cold (to at least some degree)? I've been working to the assumption that I won't get as good an ovenspring if it's cold, so I usually leave it out for an hour or so before baking...but I don't ever really know if it's "ready" to go into the oven? Love the channel! :)
BK Nelson From what I have read, if you have done a decent bulk ferment then there is no reason to do this. In my experience, baking straight from fridge works best 👌🏻
Definitely bake it straight out of the fridge. I did it the other way for a long time and after switching won't look back. The shape is less likely to warp due to being more solid and the fermentation won't pick up speed and potentially overferment the loaf from being warmed up.
Great video. I found 20 minutes at 475%F then 10 to 15 minutes at 400 gave me excellent results. Note since watching your videos I now use beer and go with 10% olive oil. Best bread ever.
@@Foodgeek sorry for asking again. i got really interested in getting a baking steel. what type of metal fits perfect for baking? stainless steel? iron? or...?
Fantastic! I have learned so much from your videos. I have been baking in 100 year old Dutch ovens for about a year now and would love to bake on a steel but I can’t seem to find a proper cover to keep the steam in. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I looked in your affiliate links and could not find the one you use. Keep up the great content and thank you.
Excellent video and experiment as usual. Do you have any videos that show the complete workflow with the Brovn? They don't ship to the US yet but I am excited about this product. I might also try to find a glass dome as I already have a baking steel but when I have used an inverted stainless steel bowl I haven't achieved the same degree of oven spring as I typically get in the Lodge Combo Cooker. Thanks!
Currently I only use a dutch oven to bake my bread. I want to try and start using a baking stone, by chance what is the dome/lid that you are using in your method.
What do you think about steamed buns? There's a German recipe that uses steam for baking and multiple Chinese recipes. They all use the dough that contains yeast.
Hi! Thanks for all the videos and experiments. Here's a suggestion for another experiment: Can you use commercial yeast to kick-start a fresh starter and how and for how long it affects the flavour?
Thank you for your videos! I'm curious about all these topics but too lazy to put forth the time and effort to figuring this stuff out on my own. My most common issue I've come up against is that my loaves turn out with a crisp thin crust that is too doughy in the middle or the crust is too thick (especially on the bottom) that my bread knife can cut to the bottom
It seems that what I’m learning from your experiment videos is that nothing really matters; it will always work! That is, when YOU do it. When I do it, it never works no matter what!!
😂
I have this going thing with my wife. I do another ridiculous experiment with bread and tell that, no way, this time this is not going to work. Yet, a perfectly good bread comes out. Last time I did ridiculous 100% hydration bread from less than ideal flour. The bread spread like a pancake on the granite stone and yet it sprung very high and had nice, perfect large holes. The more crust the better:)
the same is happening to me
@@leonardmilcin7798 I did nearly the same thing! Except 120% hydration. ..I'd say dutch oven saved me...it was like a sourdough shape with ciabatta texture ...and it was the best tasting bread I've had.
I've since learned that this is called pan de cristal , I've actually got one nearly ready to go in the fridge since early hours of this morning. ..but I might not have ever tried ludicrously high hydration levels if I hadn't watched one of Sune's experiments on the subject ☺
IMO as long as vapor is retain while cooking, either through a dutch oven or a source of vapor, pretty much anything has worked for me.
I love your experiment videos. Is the oven-cam new? It's a great addition.
I've used it for a couple of videos 😁
I heartily agree about the oven cam. It was really fun to see the spring action.
Love the glass globe baking lid
I have spent a week researching sourdough bread after I made one loaf and if I dropped it out of the window on somebody’s head I would’ve been up on a murder charge! His are the most informative, well-thought-out and explained videos I have come across, and I have come across a lot! I think there are so many variables that go into making bread and so many recipes, you just have to find one that works for you and stick with it! And it’s very hard with the flour and yeast shortage but I think you need to make several before you even begin to get the knack of it, it is challenging. Then a Very important factor ... he mills his own flour and that is far superior to supermarket flour.
Very nice and informative video as always.
It would be nice to know the effect different sources of steam make on the loaf, I see most people use a dutch oven but some people prefer a tray with water (I have seen a video where they use ice cubes, other where they use normal water and other video in which they boil the water first, all by different people).
I’m really curious to know what is the best way to steam the loaf.
Thanks again for the video! Have a nice day!
I would presume that the highest heat setting would bake the bread in shorter time. Did you adjust the overall bake time with each change in the temperature setting?
The 450 degree loaf appeared to have appreciably more oven spring. It looked the best to me all around too. I found out this week through the spirit of your experimentation that a good deep score is critical to exceptional oven spring and an ear. Please keep these coming.
Loved the temperature comparison video! Typically I bake my sourdough bread at 450F degrees for 15 minutes then decrease the temp 375F degrees for 20 minutes. End result a very tasty golden brown sourdough loaf of bread.
I do it at 475 for 35 mins ( for softer crust) then lower to 450 for 15 mins 600g loaves. Any less time results in the bread not being cooked all the way through.
My oven only gets as high as 230ºC, so I’m really happy to know I can get the same results as if I were baking at 260. Also, I always autolyze with salt and starter mixed in together and I’ve seen no difference from the traditional way, only that the process takes shorter. Great vid!
just baked my first sourdough DO boule from my own starter, and it came out fairly nice. I thank Sune for geeking on all things bread in his videos, where I picked up tips and info that guided my novice hands to this happy end. Always enjoyable to find a video from Sune I haven't seen.
Surprising result to me. Also nice to know that there is an acceptable range of baking temperatures which will still yield good results. Thanks.
Yes, it opens up to a lot of possibilities 😊
Your lowest setting is my oven's highest setting. I've always baked my bread at about 430f and it comes out fine.
Next experiment suggestion: For the impatient bakers, how important is allowing the bread to fully cool before slicing. What happens if you slice right away? After 30 mins? 4 hours? Next day? How is the bread right after slicing, and then how is it a day later? Could be based on time out of the oven, or on internal temp when slicing. Hope to see this one!
Kinda wish you’d baked it a bit lower ; im working with what is essentially a small gas caravan oven and swear it only gets to about 200C (it has high mid and low temperature) and have never gotten any great extensive oven spring especially without my bread also burning
Have you tried baking in some kind of enclosure, such as a dutch oven?
Jason Wolfgang
Try adding steam. Put a shallow baking tray or similar at the bottom of the oven to heat up. When you put the bread in to bake, pour just boiled water the tray. Remove the tray of water after about 10-15 minutes. You can also spray into the oven just before closing the door.
A very interesting investigation. It's a relief to know baking at 230c produces an equally good loaf as many domestic ovens will be able to reach that temperature. Thanks, Sune.
Me too because many good medium capacity oven sold in my country only have 230c max temp
Thx very much.
Very interesting.
I am now debugging my sourdough loaf. You saved me several tests.
Our grandmothers baked at whatever temp they could get the woodstove to and adjusted by placement. This makes sense.
Thats not "whatever temp" though.
Are you planning on making a scoring depth experiment ?
Thanks again Sune. I definitely learned something!
Thanks for this. I don't have a regulator on my oven, so I have to keep checking the temp. I've also found the so-called "oven baking paper" that my local baking supply sold me is more like a wonderful item to use to start my barbecue grill. It's hard to source something like the right stuff--and be sure it IS the right stuff--where I live.
It's nice to know that if my oven "creeps" a bit (remember "The Shining" the movie? "Gotta watch that boiler--she'll creep on ya!") it will still work fine as long as I keep it between the 450-500 degree range.
Always love your videos, especially the experiments!
Love your music! One of the reasons why I like watching your videos :)
I recently ruined a pair of pot holders and almost burned myself because of heating up my oven too much, so it´s great to know that 230 Celsius will give me good results! I also got some new heat-resistant gloves to avoid the risk next time. Thanks so much for your experiments!
Dangerous. It's good that you didn't hurt yourself :)
Thanks for a really informative experiment. My small oven goes only to 232C/450F, but the bread comes out just fine. I wondered if I needed a hotter oven, and what was I missing. Your oven spring is amazing. Thanks Sune!
You have an amazing tone of voice. It was beautiful to listen to.
I learn so much by these experiments! I love your videos.
Lucky to never have had a scorched bottom b4. ..I have one now , finding it difficult to sit down.
Love the experiments Sune! Keep them coming 😆
Love watching your vids. Thanks, very helpful
Thank you ❤️
I love your videos. You have a fantastic channel. Don't ever stop!
love all your experiment videos! thanks for putting in the work
Love baking sourdough:)
It’s great to learn new techniques and recipes from here.
Since I’m into this I’ve improved so much my breads are getting pretty awesome.
Thanks for the video it’s great.
Thank you for the experiments. Such an eye opener 👍👍👍
awesome content. love the subject, format, editing. and you are great to watch and listen to.
Thank you so much, that was exactly one of my top of mind questions!
Well done! I'd also be interested in the result of 300C in combo with a stone instead of steel. Next to that, really good and informative channel. Keep up this great work!
Great video! Would love to see a comparison baking in cold Dutch oven :)
Also, what serrated knife are you using? It’s seems to be cutting those loafs like butter. Having a hard time cutting through my loafs because the crust is hard
I think he’s done that already!
mrmorganmusic oh great! Must’ve missed it. Thank you!
Always looking forward to the experiment videos!
Very informative, like all your videos. Can you please do one on Cold Oven baking. So many people these days are saying that one can do away with preheating and get the same results.
It works well. I’ve baked several times with this technique.
Can we please see videos of all the birds in your backyard or at the park that wait for their daily bread from you?
My backyard has gone from a dead zone to the local hangout for all the birds around.
Modernist Bread differentiates between dry and wet bulb temp. Wet stuff won't get hotter than 100C anyway - though the initial burst of steam can transfer a lot of energy, the difference in conducted heat to the center isn't all that large.
For me the biggest difference was in the final crust (thickness, degree of caramellization). I'm surprised you didn't find a difference there!
Would love to see where it drops off. Good to know 450F is sufficient for spring as I like to bake at that temp to avoid scorching in my oven. I wonder if spring is affected at 400F or 350F...
Thanks Suan, these experiments are very informative.
Yes great timing on doing this study - was just wondering about that. Thanks. Just baking my loaf now at 450 and will post again when it is done
How did it go?
I'd love to see your take on a beer sourdough bread. I wasn't especially happy with my first attempt using the King Arthur Flour recipe.
Great idea!
There’s really nothing magical about adding beer to dough.
I have been using the "Extra Tangy" recipe from KAF. I'm not a new baker but new to sourdough. I am going to start incorporating Sune's recipes and methods. Lots of trial and error left to go for me.
@@svenska572 If you're aiming for authenticity, I wouldn't obsess over extra tang. Original California gold field starters were probably short-lived and re started from scratch again and again, taking into account the intense (100 F+) summer heat and primitive gold camp conditions. A bit of tang but not excessive. Meanwhile SF being on the foggy summer SF Bay would've been cooler, the starters long lived and hence tangier, used and refreshed daily. Most modern commercial (ConAgra style) xx-sour bread is artificially enhanced and lacking in real flavor.
@@ShafterRod exactly. ..because beer is already fermented
I am thinking the upside down glass bowl instead of a regular Dutch oven does not retain the heat the same and therefor will provide more similar results?
I have an upcoming experiment for this 😁
@@Foodgeek yay 😄
....although wait...I just bought an expensive dutch oven 😕
Another delightful video! Great music Sune. How about a comparison of a cold bake vs hot bake?
I've always got the best oven spring when I put my dough in cold dutch oven into a cold oven, turning heat to 240 (max temp of my oven) and baking for 50 minutes with lid on the whole time 🤷🏼♀️
Would like to have seen that. I've done something similar with good results when container was choses carefully.
I heard that this is possible but for me not practical b/c I bake several bread after each other on a baking day
Well done. I was extremely excited to see a video from my favorite bread chef
What about lower temperatures like 200°C?
Perfect timing! After three failed attempts, this morning I succeeded in baking a beautiful loaf. But I feel it could have risen just a bit more. I was wondering is my baking temperature made a difference. Also, in this video I noticed you scored your loaf fairly deep. Does that affect the rise during baking?
Is there really failed attempts if it’s still delicious? 🤔
@@lightdark00 Yes. I'd call my 50% whole wheat frisbee a fail! Tasted great, but I'd like to keep all my teeth in my head. My dog thinks highly of it as a homemade treat though. LOL!
i guess it's more about your dough strength (windowpane test) and proofing time/temperature.. the more air pockets you have in your dough the more it will expand.
@@RepublicTX Bake in an oven pan or simply a pot. Lid on for 20 min. Lid off until done. No problems with pancakeing, nice and reproducible shape even with high hydration dough. That's what bakeries use often and what people around where I live started using, once this simple solution became available.
Honestly, I just don't understand why people even bother with trying to bake loaves. It's so much hassle for no apparent gain...
Drowned Rat I had this more or less with a 25% whole wheat, but I think the dough had over proofed and therefore had minimal rise. It spread out nicely however 🤦♀️. It was very dense and very chewy. My husband keeps reaching for that one though. Says he likes the taste. It actually does taste okay if you can get past the slightly gummy bit 😂.
Bonjour camarade Sune
très réussie les Grignes des miches
est ce que sur la technique de coupe appropriée et la température de chauffe
il manque un certain niveau de buée a injecter..SVP ?
Mr Pierre ville de Saint-Germain-en-Laye France
Great video as always. Can you consider doing a video discussing ways to bring out more sour taste in the bread?
Sune can you please do an experiment on convection verses conventional oven?
I have a question or maybe an experiment for you. I was curious if the inside of my Dutch oven (at temperature) was the same as the set temperature. After 45 minutes I found inside the Dutch oven was 20 C lower than the oven itself. Note. No dough inside the Dutch oven at this point. Any ideas?
Did you measure it ovens temperature as well? Maybe your oven is off by 20C? :)
@@Foodgeek I always use an oven thermometer and this one is new. Oven temperature was spot on. I think this needs investigating. I will have one thermometer inside Dutch oven and one in oven chamber for a few more cycles. I’m convinced that there is a difference.
There may be. I guess this may show that you should heat your DO open 😊
I was really excited for this video as I expected you to go way lower in temperature than 230 degrees - which is the temperature i always start baking. Could you do a second experiment where you go lower?
Absolutely. I'm doing one from 230 downwards 😊
Your video is really helpful, as my oven highest setting is 230 degree C. (Although still cannot make as caramelized as yours)
This was very valuable for me. I've struggled with scorched bottoms b/c my oven runs hotter than what is dialed by ~50° F. I've decreased the temp to 450 but may go further down to 400°F. (Using Dutch oven on a pizza stone)
Very informative videos, thank you. I have a question. How do I get enough starter to make a loaf of bread every week. Or if I decide I want to make two loaves instead of one how and the loaves take half a cup of starter each and after I get the one cup of starter for the loaves do I only need to keep a couple of tablespoons in a jar then add as much flour as I think I need to make my bread the following week. Hope I'm not Confusing you too much with my question.
At night I will usually look at how much I need for baking. So if I need 200g of starter I'll measure out 50g of starter, 100g of flour and 100g water. Then I will have 250g of starter.
If I only have 50g of starter, I will add more water and flour (same weight both) until I make enough. This will make it rise slower, so I might put it in my proofer, or make it early enough so that I know how much it will take to peak.
@@Foodgeek Thank you..I appreciate your timely response. That really helps a bunch.
@@Foodgeek can you please answer one more question. If my starter is a lesser starter or more watery would I still follow your amounts you stated in my last question? Again thank you.
I've had my first burnt bottoms this week. Both breads contained cheese. The first was cooked at 500°C. The second was lower from 500°C to 450°C when I put the bread in. The second was better, but still had a bit of a burnt taste in parts. As I'm trying different things at the same time, it's hard to come to any conclusion, but I seems like the inclusion of cheese might change things a bit. Or maybe I'm trying too hard to have that caramelized exterior and end up leaving it in a bit too long. And/or, my oven doesn't hold it's temperature so well and the bottom element is active too often.
What about combisteam ovens I use 25% steam in baking bread and go with 180 c for 30 minut nad ten 200 C for 20 min
THANK YOU for this experiment! I've always wondered why some recipes called for 500* and some for lower temps down to 430* F.
I just realized; when I said I got better results at lower temperatures, I meant I lowereed it to the temperature you use standard. I think I never got a scorged bottom because the tray with water in the bottom for steam kinda shielded the bottom. Informative video, thx. :)
Love that bowl with the plastic lid but I don’t see it on your merch page. Gotta have that, I’m going thru way too much plastic wrap.
You can cover your bowl with a moist tea towel. That's what I do.
You have been making a good case that it is hard to f*ck up bread. I used to think it was impossible to make good bread now I feel it is inevitable. Thank you, Sune.
I don't know if I missed this, but I assume you took the lid off after 20 or so minutes to let the loaves bake uncovered. If so, did you lower the temperature of the oven then?
Edit: Sorry, I didn't notice the lid! I'm curious too, now!
Yes, I mention it in the video. They cook uncovered at 230 until they are done 😊
Foodgeek what is the glass thing, is it Pyrex, does it have a handle on top?
I didn't see where you said what time you used for the three loaves. Did you adjust it for the different temperatures? I mean, did you do the hot one same times as the cooler loaf?
I think he use the same time, in serious science experiments this is how the control group works.
You work with one different factor at a time.
@@stinkyunicornsoaplab6714 But in actual practice most people adjust the baking time when they adjust the temperature.
So a more useful and conclusive experiment would be one that test various baking temperatures, at their respective optimal baking times?
I would think so , otherwise as soon as he smelled burn , he'd have rescued it ...and it looked pretty burnt 😆
What time of salt do you use? Sea salt, kosher salt or regular table salt?
My convection oven in my rv only will go up to 425 degrees.. argh!! Can I still have success with my sourdough bread?
I don't see why it wouldn't. If you have fan assist, I'd use that :)
JFI there is an EU directive that ovens should not go above 250 deg. C. It's about energy conservation and energy efficiency. Your oven seems really quite powerful and I expect it gets back to the set temp. fairly quickly. Mine is a little less so. So I tend to go a little higher at 240 deg C to allow for the temperature drop when I open the loaf to put the dough in. Anyway, thanks for another superb test. Much appreciated.
(Yes, I put a probe inside the oven... sad? LOL)
Mine goes to 300 😊 Great for pizza 🍕🍕
My gas oven doesn't even reach 210C (410F)!! How can I overcome this? I haven't had great success with my previous loaves.
Love these! How about lower temps? 400F vs 425F vs 450F. Iv'e been doing 420F and wondered how that changed my o-spring. Really great videos. Thanks!
Such an informative video, thank you!
Do you keep the same temperature after unliding? I usually pre heat 260 c then i low the oven temperature to around 200 right after putting the bread cause otherwise the iron dutch oven burn the bread too fast. Thanks for the experiment. You should write an e-book summing up all this knowledge. Regards!
Is it better to use convection heat or regular oven?
thank you for this experiment learnt something nice presentation
Hey I love your videos and had an idea for one: comparing organic versus non organic flours and how it affects the ovenspring and crumb? Or it could also be flours with and without additives? Should be interesting I think, greetings from 🇧🇪
Nice experiment. The 203/450 degree loaf is defiantly my favorite all around.
So informative! Thanks for this great video!
Struggling with oven spring and suspect it may not be oven temperature that is the culprit. Perhaps I am over-fermenting. You bulk ferment at 30 C for a 25% rise. Approx. how long does that take?
2.5 to 3 hours 😊
I was wondering if there is a way to calculate the optional hydration %, depending on the flours W index.
I would want to know how long did you bake the sourdough at 230 degrees? Thanks.
Around 20 minutes 😊
I really enjoy your videos and learn so much. I live near Denver, Colorado, at about 6700 feet above sea level. It is a challenge for sure. I have mastered a pretty good loaf of sourdough bread but it is not as good as it could be. Today, I'm trying it at 500 degrees F where I usually bake it at 450. I also added 20 grams more water than I usually do (usual: 230 grams water with 460 grams bread flour). Have you ever ventured in baking at high altitude? Not sure where you live or if there are any mountains available near you. I have not looked through all of your videos, so you may have addressed this and I missed it. Thanks.
You didn't say for how long they baked. How many minutes? thanks
Great experiment. 👌🏻 It would be interesting to see if there’s a difference in final weight - if the lower temperature results in lower or higher loss of water.
I lose 105g of liquid in my 600 gram loaves. So they’re 495g when baked.i bake at 475f then lower to 450 for 15 mins.
interesting test could I ask what was the bake time on these loaves.
How long you baked the 230degree bread?? Please do mention the timing also. And do share how to make the bread less caramelized.
Thank you
I've never baked at such high temps. in all my MANY years of making bread. Would rather have seen comparisons like 325-375-425. Have you done cold vs preheated ovens at reasonable temp like 375?
Really? For artisinal sourdough loaves, this is quite common. Most recipes require an initial temperature of 450-500 in the first 20 minutes of cooking then turning it down to 450. If you're talking about other bread recipes with sugar, milk, eggs (enriched with fat or other sweeteners of any kind), I understand because usually those burn quite quickly in high temperatures. But with sourdough like this, the high heat is required to drive off he steam from a high-hydration dough and provide the lift + crust that is signature to a good loaf.
AGREED... that's what I was hoping for also... bet ya he does it ;)
I agree - traditional American baking is 350ish and I find Europeans typically use hotter ovens. Maybe it's because we bake so many cookies here and 450 would be a deal-breaker. :) I do, however, find that I'm not getting awesome spring on my sourdough at 350 despite the usually expert advice from King Arthur Flour. I will try Sune's 450F method. Learning a lot here!
Fantastic - I'm learning by the day, just looking att your videos + experimenting, to eventually make a deasent loaf :-)
Question...temp is good and well...but for how long time? ---I am a newbie in this field...
He has some very good beginner videos. Check them out.
@@petekelso4676 I guess I have to....
Here's a suggestion as I didn't see this in your library: I do overnight ferments in the refrigerator and then bake it the next day. My question: do I need to let my bread come down to room temp or can I bake it while it's cold (to at least some degree)? I've been working to the assumption that I won't get as good an ovenspring if it's cold, so I usually leave it out for an hour or so before baking...but I don't ever really know if it's "ready" to go into the oven? Love the channel! :)
BK Nelson From what I have read, if you have done a decent bulk ferment then there is no reason to do this. In my experience, baking straight from fridge works best 👌🏻
I have never seen any difference , it rises the same way 🤷🏻♀️
Definitely bake it straight out of the fridge. I did it the other way for a long time and after switching won't look back. The shape is less likely to warp due to being more solid and the fermentation won't pick up speed and potentially overferment the loaf from being warmed up.
It’s also a lot easier to score the cold dough.
Great video. I found 20 minutes at 475%F then 10 to 15 minutes at 400 gave me excellent results. Note since watching your videos I now use beer and go with 10% olive oil. Best bread ever.
is it a baking steel???
The glass dome (the Brovn) come with a circular baking steel with a groove for the dome 😊
@@Foodgeek niiiice! after my baking pizza stone cracked in half, i want to get a baking steel
@@Foodgeek sorry for asking again. i got really interested in getting a baking steel. what type of metal fits perfect for baking? stainless steel? iron? or...?
Fantastic! I have learned so much from your videos. I have been baking in 100 year old Dutch ovens for about a year now and would love to bake on a steel but I can’t seem to find a proper cover to keep the steam in. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I looked in your affiliate links and could not find the one you use. Keep up the great content and thank you.
Excellent video and experiment as usual. Do you have any videos that show the complete workflow with the Brovn? They don't ship to the US yet but I am excited about this product. I might also try to find a glass dome as I already have a baking steel but when I have used an inverted stainless steel bowl I haven't achieved the same degree of oven spring as I typically get in the Lodge Combo Cooker. Thanks!
No, but I am planning to make a review where I'd include that.
did you leave in for the same time?
Can you also try experimenting with lower temperatures such as 300F? Love this btw!
Currently I only use a dutch oven to bake my bread. I want to try and start using a baking stone, by chance what is the dome/lid that you are using in your method.
What do you think about steamed buns? There's a German recipe that uses steam for baking and multiple Chinese recipes. They all use the dough that contains yeast.
Where did you get that glass dome you put over your bread in the oven?
Hi! Thanks for all the videos and experiments. Here's a suggestion for another experiment: Can you use commercial yeast to kick-start a fresh starter and how and for how long it affects the flavour?
Good morning Sone, have you made an experiment with dutch oven at room temperature and dutch oven at oven temperature?
Thank you for your videos! I'm curious about all these topics but too lazy to put forth the time and effort to figuring this stuff out on my own. My most common issue I've come up against is that my loaves turn out with a crisp thin crust that is too doughy in the middle or the crust is too thick (especially on the bottom) that my bread knife can cut to the bottom