Hey Sune, thanks for this vid. The way I treat enriched breads : up to 10% fat, I mix and knead as a regular dough ; 10+%, I treat like brioche : leave the fat out of the mix, create a good gluten network, then add the fat. The idea is that if you mix (a lot of) fat while the gluten network is not yet created, fat englobes the gluten threads and prevent them from forming the network. A video you could do is compare both techniques : make 20% fat breads adding the fat from the beginning and adding the fat as the gluten network exists (brioche style). Cheers!
Hi, you add the oil as the last ingredient, right before bulk fermentation. Basically, you prepare a 'normal' non-enriched dough and then incorporate the oil / butter / shortening / other fat. So yes, after autolyse (if you do one), after adding the starter and salt
Manu Manu for brioche type I recently started adding a tiny amount fat +sugar to the sourdough so it gets used to the enriched environment and later like you add the rest of the fat
@joe jitsu Rather than thinking Hitler youth, think Viking. Yeah, they pillaged too, but so long ago that the emotional connotations have faded into history.They at least had an excuse. They were barbarians, and were still evolving. Nazi's chose to be assholes when there was a better alternative.
@@fletchoid there was no such thing as "nazi". There was national socialism and, although I don't care at all about socialism or nationalism, history is written by the ones who won the war.
Great experiment Sune! .. While I know you have your standard method of baking sourdough, when it comes to enriching with any kind of fat (oil, butter, eggs) timing comes into play .. It would have been interesting to compare between the control, and what happens when oil is added with the salt, after the levain, rather than all together .. which would have been a closer comparison to the control given that both would have had a chance for the gluten to develop .. The other (minor) observation I would make is that 20% is an extraordinary amount of oil to pour into a loaf, and even 10%, in my experience would be considered a lot (unless you are making a brioche) .. personally, I would have been interested in somewhere around 5% .. which is just enough to bring a softer texture to the crust and crumb, without interfering with the traditional open crumb, texture, or overwhelming the flavor ..
You may want to try it by adding the olive oil later in the process. I usually do it after the fourth round of stretch and folds. Give the glitten Strand a chance to lengthen out. You will get a more open crumb, the oil acts as a shortening, meaning it coats the proteins glutenin and gliadin making it harder for them to form good sturdy connects for strong gluten formation.
I live for these experiments! At the moment they're keeping me sane , I tend to use olive oil instead of dusting flour on my hands and the kitchen counter. ..totally depends on hydration level though 😆 Keep them coming Sune!
I've come to love "Experiment time!" so much. Thanks so much for this one Sune. My GF's parents have a hard time with crusty bread so this was joyful to watch as maybe they can finally enjoy my sourdough.
Hey Sune! I found your channel while I was searching for sourdough info and I have to say, you are like therapy to me! I have experience in baking bread, but about 8 years ago I started with my first sourdough and followed a very rigid recipe which left me down, unmotivated to go on and clueless. Never tried again. But after watching your videos for the last 10 days I was so keen to start that I have set up a starter again and I'm going to bake my first sourdough bread on Thursday! Your videos are simple, easygoing and individual - a welcome change! Keep going and all the best!!
If you do Butter: try one version that is like brioche, where you work the soft butter in after you build some gluten and the other where it's melted or rubbed into the dough before gluten development. Edit: build* gluten Thanks for the heart ❤️!!
Good timing - I just added some olive oil on a lark last batch and my sourdough baguettes were noticeably softer crust. The half I used for pizza dough didn't develop enough gluten to windowpane (and I wasn't patient) so I had a bit of a lump for supper. Thanks for adding some context and explanation for what happened.
I have an idea for an experiment. What happens when you over ferment and under ferment your dough? Also with tips on how to tell when the bulk fermentation is at the right spot. This is what I am having trouble with in my bread making right now.
Depends on what you mean. Proofing and fermenting are different processes. Yeast doing the work or bacteria. Having too much yeast in the dough is definitely not good. It can cause heartburn. I've seen people fermenting the dough up to a week.
Thank you for this experiment . I always wondered what the difference was. So, when I'm bringing bread for my parent's I'll add the olive oil. So they too can enjoy my sourdough loaves! :)
I'm a complete newbie but I've done quite a bit of reading and yes fat hinders gluten development quite a bit which is why I've seen it's advised to add it once the dough is properly kneaded (adjust the type of kneading to the hydration level of your dough) . I always add a bit of olive oil to keep the bread from drying out as quickly and I haven't experienced those issues adding it after instead of at the beginning. Great video as always!
I would love to see what the effect butter has on the dough. I enjoy your videos! I am on a sourdough journey and the loaves are getting steadily better. Thanks!
Hi Sune! Thanks for this olive oil experiment! It’s delicious and you saved me a trip to the dentist. The 10% olive oil produced a beautiful soft, but crispy, crust that won't crack my tooth!
Okay, so today I made my first sourdough using olive oil based on this video. I had problems with oven spring and the crumb BUT it was absolutely the BEST tasting bread I've made so far! Thank you, Sune, for introducing me to this new technique! I'm going to try a slightly modified version tomorrow!
Yes! Do the same, but now with butter! By the way, I think these "comparison videos" you do, where you test different methods/ratios at the same time are, awesome. That is the only way one can clearly see the difference (when there is any).
Thank you for the great video! What I learned is this, the oil makes the bread have a softer crust with a tighter crumb and a little less oven spring. Also, I may need to add another rest and fold to develop the gluten properly.
I was just wondering about this today and I came across your experiment. I also learned a few other tips on how to better my breadmaking process. Your video is very well produced, easy to follow and pleasant to eye and ear alike. Thank you so much.
I'm very stoked about this experiment! I enjoy crusty bread but most of the recipes I see end up with such a hard crust that it's almost unpleasant. I might need to add about 5-10% oil next loaf I make
Very interesting video. Have made breads with olive oil before and found they are always softer. Never thought to try adding oil to sourdough. Glad you did. Thank you.
I did my own version already, but would love to see what you find subbing out water for beer does in a bake! From a light lager or wheat beer to a dark stout, you could yield some interesting results :)
Thank you for this, Foodgeek. I’m just starting to experiment with olive oil for my sandwich loaves. One thing I noticed in your experiment, you added the oil and water in the same step. Some dry flour will contact oil before water. I wonder if that oiled flour would be unavailable to the yeast and possibly cause a texture change in the final product. I’m drawing on my experience in roux making where it does make a difference. Just a thought.
You’ll basically see that it rises faster. Time =flavor so you’ll also see that the cold ferment is slightly better, but you probably won’t be able to tell unless you’re very familiar with sourdough notes. Also, sourdough rises so slowly, the fridge will probably take over 24 hours to be ready for shaping.
Your videos are so relaxing to watch. I made a loaf today where I forgot to add salt. It came out to be my best ever. Maybe too late but I would love to see a toast test for each. I would guess they will get progressively browner when toasted for a given time.
Sune, I love watching your sourdough experiment videos. I too bake a lot of sourdough adding millet and red winter wheat berries to my bread. I have had to experiment quite bit as to when in the process the millet and cooked whole wheat should be added to have the least impact on the gluten structure. Of all the sourdough videos in the youtude-verse you are the only one I have seen to ever add to your sourdough i.e. your cheese and jalapeños sourdough. This sets yourself apart from the others as well as your experimentation format. Please do more of these with seeds and whole grains. I have tried sunflower seeds, oat groats, and of course millet and hard red winter wheat berries. Thank you for the trail and error you do so other don't have too. Cheers and keep up the good work.
My grandfather was a baker and they used to add a bit of lard in to the dough. Based on what I remember it had the same effects as shown in this video + thanks to the fat in the dough it took those baked loafs longer time to dry out -> were softer for longer period of time. That makes sense since they were baking 2 and 6 kg (approximately 4 and 12 pounds) loafs.
Rigtig interesant, Sune! It would be super interesting to experiment with oils infused with different flavors, such as garlic, chili, and other herbs... Will have to try this out!!
wondering if you have ever tried adding honey to sourdough? I'm hoping to see an experiment on that. I tried it for the first time this week and it didn't go too well. very sticky dough and not much oven spring. I only used 5% honey on a 77% hydration.
New subscriber. WOW, I hit the jack pot with your channel!!! SOURDOUGH EXPERIMENTS I love it❣👏👏👏 With your experiments and people's comments I will be on a learning frenzy for sure then I'll get to try new things. THANK YOU!
Great experiments 👍 love to see and learn. Yes, would love to see the butter experiment as well! Last week I also bought an Brovn after seeing your videos. Used it first time today, really convenient and safe to use! Also great to see your bread during oven spring. Thnx!
Thank you Sune. I am a 73 year old South African just started on sourdough baking and have watched some of your videos over and over, love it! As for adding oil for longer lasting bread I am afraid the first attempt did not last longer than 2 days - we ate every crumb within 2 days it was so delicious! My 2nd attempt is in the oven right now, can’t wait to see it!
Yes on the butter! Also is there anyway to keep the regular crust somewhat crunchy/crispy? In a couple hours mine always softens up though it’s crisp fresh baked. I do leave it uncovered on my counter...
I've been thinking about trying to do a sourdough loaf which would work better for sandwiches than a boule or batard. I looked up some regular bread loaf recipes and was surprised to see how much milk and butter go in to them. So, I started wondering how well butter would work in my sourdough recipe. Imagine my surprise when you release this olive oil experiment. I would absolutely LOVE to see you do an experiment with butter. Perhaps even melted butter vs softened butter.
And bear in mind that many bakers here in Europe incorporate salt and fat after the first autolyse (or half way kneading in case of a mixer) so that it won't mess up with the gluten development. I 'm not a pro. Just repeating what I read and saw. :)
@@stefbystef adding fat after or partway through mixing is indeed to maintain the integrity of the gluten network, adding salt in this manner is to do with ferementation as salt is a retardant to yeast. This allows the dough to forment faster while retaining the same characteristic crumb and crust qualities adding salt after mixing controls the final proof and strengthens the dough.
YES!!! Please try with butter! I am making today one with olive oil and one with butter, they need to sleep tonight before baking ;) cant wait tomorow to taste it :)
Love this video. Waited until the end to see if you noted the rate of "keep" as the addition of oil should give one a longer lasting loaf? I for one would love a peppery taste as my favourite topping is good, Hunter Valley (Aussie) Olive oil. So good for my cholesterol count!!
Hi Sune, I have a few questions. I was wondering whether you could help me out. Is it of any importance the fermentation that happens during the folding process? The other question is, are you using only the poke test to check if your loaf is ready for baking? Also when putting it in the fridge? Many thanks in advance.
This is really great that you did this- thank you! I was wondering what adding fat did to a loaf. I made a traditional loaf of Alaskan sourdough Sheepherder’s that calls for melted butter, milk, baking soda and sugar. I am not sure what the purpose of all those extra ingredients but it resulted in an amazing sandwich bread. Sort of a brioche. Note: the hydration of this dough is considerably low. Your video answers part of my question about why the hydration is so low and also texture. Thanks again.
...thank you for doing the experiment--have always wondered what effect oil would have on sourdough. I think that adding melted butter would probably have a similar effect as the oil, as both are fatty substances, and maybe a closer crumb. Also, I think that the taste would be more pleasant to the tastebuds. I love your experiments and are most appreciated!
Awesome Sune. Have you done a sourdough bread with rye flour and bread flour mix? If you have can you drop the link here as I could not find it in your blogs. Thanks again for the lessons!
Yeah finally! Definitely please try with butter. I have been using a soup spoon of oil for a month now because rhe bread lasts long... it doesn't dry out so fast.
If you're putting oil in your dough, the type of oil can also affect how the dough performs. Virgin olive oil (and I assume other virgin oils) has some antimicrobial properties that refined oils don't have. It would be interesting to see how much of the slowing down of the fermentation is due to this, and how much is due to the mechanical properties of the fat. For the same reason it would be interesting to compare honey and white sugar. The experiment I'd most like to see is how much of an effect overnight proofing in the fridge has, and if it's baking cold or the time that makes the difference if any.
I second the overnight proofing in the fridge experiment. I just use less starter and use 16 to 24 hours total time (Proof and bulk) depending on the room temperature. The danger I see is will smaller percentages of starter the larger the error in measurement i.e. 1 gram off at 50g is ok where at 5g it is a problem. My scale only goes down to 1g resolution so I could be at 5.99g when it says 5g.
I have been doing equal parts salt and olive oil and it works great. So only like 2% oil (I also do 4% sugar). I live in DRY colorado and this allows my loaves to stay soft and edible for 3+ days!
Very interesting! I’ve decided I don’t like letting my boules bake uncovered long enough to brown “sufficiently” since it makes the crust much tougher and I don’t enjoy eating that as much as softer crust. May have to try this out, and I’m very curious about the same type of experiment but with butter, yes! 🙏🏻🧈
You haven´t told it but i think you also let it ferment in the fridge over night? And another question, yoiu bake it under the lid until its ready ? Or did you remove the lid ?
Italian Americans added oil and sugar to their pizza dough due to lack of powerful ovens in the US at the time when they first migrated to the States. Plain dough would dry out when baked in lower temp ovens over long period. Even professional pizziaoli recommend adding oil and sugar when making pizza in a home oven.
A change in flour supplier due to C19 brought a few comments that the crumb wasn't as nice, especially after a day or two. I have started adding a mild olive oil to increase elasticity. Seems to have met with approval. I use a 24hr refrigerated bulk ferment rather than all that pesky kneading. Works for me, just as it did for all those village bakers of old. Thanks for the video.
I made normal bread (flour + yeast) with only olive oil (no water). It created a lovely, flaky, pastry-like bread. It was nice with Italian food - so crumbly.
can I ask a pretty basic question? How do you stop your bread sticking in the proofing baskets? I often have to add quite a lot of flour to mine to present this.
Couple o questions: is the oil added as part of the liquids, and if so, is the water percentage reduced to compensate? Also, was the dough refrigerated before cooking, and how long for if it was? Re butter addition, I imagine you might start approaching something brioche like with its addition, although I realise without also adding eggs it would not be entirely the same.
Thanks for all the experiments. They are very helpful. I am so glad that I found this video. Do you consider oil as part of the hydration? Ie, with the addition of 20% olive oil, you are at 100% hydration. What if you reduce the water proportion, what will happen then?
Great! I'll try a batch with 10% so my kids can eat the crust. It'll be interesting to see the effect of butter, although how do you apply it: pomade or melted?
I don’t add oil to my dough, but I use olive oil to wet my hands during coil folds instead of water because I usually do 85-90% hydration and don’t want to add more water. I’ve not noticed a difference in my crust or my oven spring. But there is probably less than 2% oil being used.
Very interesting, thank you very much I just think things were tested the way you did, for everyone the same method. -But if we put the fat in another way, for example, First method autolysis of flour and water and sour, after resting 20 minutes to an hour we continue kneading, then add oil, continue kneading. - A second method of kneading everything except oil, after uniting dough you can add oil and continue kneading. - All in all Thank you very much, I very much enjoyed, the method you present, doing well, fun to follow you Best regards
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey Sune, thanks for this vid. The way I treat enriched breads : up to 10% fat, I mix and knead as a regular dough ; 10+%, I treat like brioche : leave the fat out of the mix, create a good gluten network, then add the fat. The idea is that if you mix (a lot of) fat while the gluten network is not yet created, fat englobes the gluten threads and prevent them from forming the network. A video you could do is compare both techniques : make 20% fat breads adding the fat from the beginning and adding the fat as the gluten network exists (brioche style). Cheers!
So, in a sourdough bread you'd add the olive oil after the autolyse?
Manu Manu so when exactly would you add the oil ? After the bulk fermentation? During the stretch & fold ? Thanks
It’s a good idea for experiment!
Hi, you add the oil as the last ingredient, right before bulk fermentation. Basically, you prepare a 'normal' non-enriched dough and then incorporate the oil / butter / shortening / other fat. So yes, after autolyse (if you do one), after adding the starter and salt
Manu Manu for brioche type I recently started adding a tiny amount fat +sugar to the sourdough so it gets used to the enriched environment and later like you add the rest of the fat
Sune is the Bob Ross of sour dough. Makes me feel relaxed.
@joe jitsu Rather than thinking Hitler youth, think Viking. Yeah, they pillaged too, but so long ago that the emotional connotations have faded into history.They at least had an excuse. They were barbarians, and were still evolving. Nazi's chose to be assholes when there was a better alternative.
@@fletchoid there was no such thing as "nazi". There was national socialism and, although I don't care at all about socialism or nationalism, history is written by the ones who won the war.
Damn! You nailed it! He totally is!
yes, I would like to see butter, and....the other oils, and the reduced hydration with oils.......I want it all! Thanks!
Butter produces unparalleled softness. Though my bread is still tasteless, unless the. rust is well browned using a baguette 🥖 crisping tray.
Just don't put any fat into bread. It's as simple as this.
@@Bartooc why?
Me too!!!
@@Bartooc why? Fats do improve crumbs to a certain point isnt it?
Great experiment Sune! .. While I know you have your standard method of baking sourdough, when it comes to enriching with any kind of fat (oil, butter, eggs) timing comes into play .. It would have been interesting to compare between the control, and what happens when oil is added with the salt, after the levain, rather than all together .. which would have been a closer comparison to the control given that both would have had a chance for the gluten to develop .. The other (minor) observation I would make is that 20% is an extraordinary amount of oil to pour into a loaf, and even 10%, in my experience would be considered a lot (unless you are making a brioche) .. personally, I would have been interested in somewhere around 5% .. which is just enough to bring a softer texture to the crust and crumb, without interfering with the traditional open crumb, texture, or overwhelming the flavor ..
You may want to try it by adding the olive oil later in the process. I usually do it after the fourth round of stretch and folds. Give the glitten Strand a chance to lengthen out. You will get a more open crumb, the oil acts as a shortening, meaning it coats the proteins glutenin and gliadin making it harder for them to form good sturdy connects for strong gluten formation.
I live for these experiments! At the moment they're keeping me sane , I tend to use olive oil instead of dusting flour on my hands and the kitchen counter. ..totally depends on hydration level though 😆
Keep them coming Sune!
Caroline Barrett Water on the fingers works really well for me with sticky dough.
Yes! I love putting olive oil on my hands before shaping, way better than flour imo😄
I added a TBSP of Olive oil to my usual Sourdough, last time. It was fantastic! A thinner, softer, yet still crispy crust.
I've come to love "Experiment time!" so much. Thanks so much for this one Sune. My GF's parents have a hard time with crusty bread so this was joyful to watch as maybe they can finally enjoy my sourdough.
Hey Sune! I found your channel while I was searching for sourdough info and I have to say, you are like therapy to me! I have experience in baking bread, but about 8 years ago I started with my first sourdough and followed a very rigid recipe which left me down, unmotivated to go on and clueless. Never tried again. But after watching your videos for the last 10 days I was so keen to start that I have set up a starter again and I'm going to bake my first sourdough bread on Thursday! Your videos are simple, easygoing and individual - a welcome change! Keep going and all the best!!
If you do Butter:
try one version that is like brioche, where you work the soft butter in after you build some gluten
and
the other where it's melted or rubbed into the dough before gluten development.
Edit: build* gluten
Thanks for the heart ❤️!!
That's a good point :) Thanks :)
Good timing - I just added some olive oil on a lark last batch and my sourdough baguettes were noticeably softer crust. The half I used for pizza dough didn't develop enough gluten to windowpane (and I wasn't patient) so I had a bit of a lump for supper. Thanks for adding some context and explanation for what happened.
you should do an updated basic sourdough bread guide, your technique has clearly evolved over time :P
How much flour did you use in grams and what type of flour ,and how many grams of sourdough and water
@@lena4727 You can see all formulas in the Info Box on the top
I have an idea for an experiment. What happens when you over ferment and under ferment your dough? Also with tips on how to tell when the bulk fermentation is at the right spot. This is what I am having trouble with in my bread making right now.
Depends on what you mean. Proofing and fermenting are different processes. Yeast doing the work or bacteria. Having too much yeast in the dough is definitely not good. It can cause heartburn. I've seen people fermenting the dough up to a week.
Thank you for this experiment . I always wondered what the difference was. So, when I'm bringing bread for my parent's I'll add the olive oil. So they too can enjoy my sourdough loaves! :)
I'm a complete newbie but I've done quite a bit of reading and yes fat hinders gluten development quite a bit which is why I've seen it's advised to add it once the dough is properly kneaded (adjust the type of kneading to the hydration level of your dough) . I always add a bit of olive oil to keep the bread from drying out as quickly and I haven't experienced those issues adding it after instead of at the beginning. Great video as always!
I would love to see what the effect butter has on the dough. I enjoy your videos! I am on a sourdough journey and the loaves are getting steadily better. Thanks!
Hi Sune! Thanks for this olive oil experiment! It’s delicious and you saved me a trip to the dentist. The 10% olive oil produced a beautiful soft, but crispy, crust that won't crack my tooth!
Okay, so today I made my first sourdough using olive oil based on this video. I had problems with oven spring and the crumb BUT it was absolutely the BEST tasting bread I've made so far! Thank you, Sune, for introducing me to this new technique! I'm going to try a slightly modified version tomorrow!
Yes! Do the same, but now with butter! By the way, I think these "comparison videos" you do, where you test different methods/ratios at the same time are, awesome. That is the only way one can clearly see the difference (when there is any).
Thanks Sune! It’s awesome that you do all of these experiments! Keep ‘em coming!💪🏻
Does the oil affect how the bread goes stale?
I would be very interested in finding out how soft (or hard) these breads are after several days.
Oil can make a bread taste soft and stay fresh longer
Thank you for the great video! What I learned is this, the oil makes the bread have a softer crust with a tighter crumb and a little less oven spring. Also, I may need to add another rest and fold to develop the gluten properly.
I was just wondering about this today and I came across your experiment. I also learned a few other tips on how to better my breadmaking process. Your video is very well produced, easy to follow and pleasant to eye and ear alike. Thank you so much.
I'm very stoked about this experiment! I enjoy crusty bread but most of the recipes I see end up with such a hard crust that it's almost unpleasant. I might need to add about 5-10% oil next loaf I make
Excellent video. I appreciate the format, style and rigorous scientific approach that you take toward solving this problem.
Very interesting video. Have made breads with olive oil before and found they are always softer. Never thought to try adding oil to sourdough. Glad you did. Thank you.
I did my own version already, but would love to see what you find subbing out water for beer does in a bake! From a light lager or wheat beer to a dark stout, you could yield some interesting results :)
Yes that would be great!
Beer makes everything better. I’m thinking a long ferment with a cider ale.
I'm so glad you didn't consider less than 10% of oil, less than that you couldn't even taste it. Thanks a lot again Sune, much love from Italy ❤️
Thank you for this, Foodgeek. I’m just starting to experiment with olive oil for my sandwich loaves. One thing I noticed in your experiment, you added the oil and water in the same step. Some dry flour will contact oil before water. I wonder if that oiled flour would be unavailable to the yeast and possibly cause a texture change in the final product. I’m drawing on my experience in roux making where it does make a difference. Just a thought.
Good point! Would you add the oil in after?
I love Experiment Time! It brings out the kid in me. :-)
Love to see what butter does to crust and crumb. Thank you Sune
I would like to see an experiment on Cold temperature ferment versus Warm temperature ferment. Love your channel!@
You’ll basically see that it rises faster. Time =flavor so you’ll also see that the cold ferment is slightly better, but you probably won’t be able to tell unless you’re very familiar with sourdough notes. Also, sourdough rises so slowly, the fridge will probably take over 24 hours to be ready for shaping.
@@curiousurick I cold proof in the fridge for 16 hours, any longer and my dough is over proofed.
@ Racer Girl
Try to put the dough to the fridge a n hour earlier. It should help😄maybe your room has warmer temperature 👍
@@angelikaradominska5512 I have to do long cold proofs because of my severe issues with gluten.
@@SparkyOne549 too long proofing can harm gluten structures, because of lactic acid
Great experiment. Butter would be a fun one to. I’d be curious how cultures butter and clarified butter would affect the flavor.
I add butter to my loaves...I haven’t seen the structure change but the taste is much better.
Amazing deduction, definitely a go for butter experiment. Learning a lot from you. Thanks a lot sune.
Your videos are so relaxing to watch. I made a loaf today where I forgot to add salt. It came out to be my best ever.
Maybe too late but I would love to see a toast test for each. I would guess they will get progressively browner when toasted for a given time.
Goood test. Close crumb is fine with me, and soft crust. That's what I'm after. Thanks.
I have noticed that with added olive oil the bread lasts a lot longer - does not dry out as quick. Would like to see an experiment on that too!
I've noticed the same - even a small amount of oil seems to make quite a difference
makes sense oil doesn't evaporate
Sune, I love watching your sourdough experiment videos. I too bake a lot of sourdough adding millet and red winter wheat berries to my bread. I have had to experiment quite bit as to when in the process the millet and cooked whole wheat should be added to have the least impact on the gluten structure. Of all the sourdough videos in the youtude-verse you are the only one I have seen to ever add to your sourdough i.e. your cheese and jalapeños sourdough. This sets yourself apart from the others as well as your experimentation format. Please do more of these with seeds and whole grains. I have tried sunflower seeds, oat groats, and of course millet and hard red winter wheat berries. Thank you for the trail and error you do so other don't have too. Cheers and keep up the good work.
Yep - would like to see impact of various percentages of butter. Great informative vids - many thanks 🙏
What a great experiment! Well done Sune!
Considering my inexperience though learning...this gave me very good information...thank you.
Thank you..great video as always. I am never able to get that open a crumb in my bread...always a lot denser at the bottom of the loaf.
My grandfather was a baker and they used to add a bit of lard in to the dough. Based on what I remember it had the same effects as shown in this video + thanks to the fat in the dough it took those baked loafs longer time to dry out -> were softer for longer period of time. That makes sense since they were baking 2 and 6 kg (approximately 4 and 12 pounds) loafs.
Yes! Would love to see a similar butter test.
I can't think you enough. You made all the sense with your Experiment Time.
Looking forward to see better experiments..
YES to the butter + sourdough experiment!
Hi Sune, where did you get the clear cloche? Have you ever done a video about it? Very interested to hear more about it.
See the link in his description: Brovn (glass dome): fdgk.dk/buy-brovn
Rigtig interesant, Sune! It would be super interesting to experiment with oils infused with different flavors, such as garlic, chili, and other herbs... Will have to try this out!!
wondering if you have ever tried adding honey to sourdough? I'm hoping to see an experiment on that. I tried it for the first time this week and it didn't go too well. very sticky dough and not much oven spring. I only used 5% honey on a 77% hydration.
Yes! Please see what affect butter has. Does it make it spoil quicker??
Thank you for the video. Interesting fact on the oven spring.
Great video thanks. I like your stitching of the dough after placing it in the baneton. I'm going to try thst Ta!
New subscriber. WOW, I hit the jack pot with your channel!!! SOURDOUGH EXPERIMENTS I love it❣👏👏👏 With your experiments and people's comments I will be on a learning frenzy for sure then I'll get to try new things. THANK YOU!
Great experiments 👍 love to see and learn. Yes, would love to see the butter experiment as well! Last week I also bought an Brovn after seeing your videos. Used it first time today, really convenient and safe to use! Also great to see your bread during oven spring. Thnx!
I love hydrating with milk and about 4% butter, like you said it a bit trickier to handle, but that buttery flavour.
You answered all my questions.. I will be adding 10-15% on my next bake. Thank You, great video by the way! 😊 👏
Well that was great experiment. Thank you so much. Also it is interesting to see the affect of butter
Thank you Sune. I am a 73 year old South African just started on sourdough baking and have watched some of your videos over and over, love it! As for adding oil for longer lasting bread I am afraid the first attempt did not last longer than 2 days - we ate every crumb within 2 days it was so delicious! My 2nd attempt is in the oven right now, can’t wait to see it!
Yes on the butter! Also is there anyway to keep the regular crust somewhat crunchy/crispy? In a couple hours mine always softens up though it’s crisp fresh baked. I do leave it uncovered on my counter...
I've been thinking about trying to do a sourdough loaf which would work better for sandwiches than a boule or batard. I looked up some regular bread loaf recipes and was surprised to see how much milk and butter go in to them. So, I started wondering how well butter would work in my sourdough recipe. Imagine my surprise when you release this olive oil experiment. I would absolutely LOVE to see you do an experiment with butter. Perhaps even melted butter vs softened butter.
Excellent video Sune. I have been using 10% sunflower oil up to now. Also, it was a little bit clearer the stretch and fold process. Thanks.
Seed oil? Ewwww
Experiment Time is Awesome! Please do Butter vs. Control soon ...
Did you put these overnight in the fridge or just let sit out on counter for 1-2 hours, then bake? Thanks for your videos. Always a pleasure.
Butter could surely alter the bread taste. Curious to see what you find out.
And bear in mind that many bakers here in Europe incorporate salt and fat after the first autolyse (or half way kneading in case of a mixer) so that it won't mess up with the gluten development. I 'm not a pro. Just repeating what I read and saw. :)
@@stefbystef adding fat after or partway through mixing is indeed to maintain the integrity of the gluten network, adding salt in this manner is to do with ferementation as salt is a retardant to yeast. This allows the dough to forment faster while retaining the same characteristic crumb and crust qualities adding salt after mixing controls the final proof and strengthens the dough.
YES!!! Please try with butter! I am making today one with olive oil and one with butter, they need to sleep tonight before baking ;) cant wait tomorow to taste it :)
Love this video. Waited until the end to see if you noted the rate of "keep" as the addition of oil should give one a longer lasting loaf? I for one would love a peppery taste as my favourite topping is good, Hunter Valley (Aussie) Olive oil. So good for my cholesterol count!!
Superb videos, please do one with the effect of sugar on open crumb.
Loving the experiments. Wish I was with you for the sniff and taste test, it all looked soooo good. Thanks
Hi Sune, I have a few questions. I was wondering whether you could help me out. Is it of any importance the fermentation that happens during the folding process? The other question is, are you using only the poke test to check if your loaf is ready for baking? Also when putting it in the fridge? Many thanks in advance.
Very interesting. Im planning on experimenting with adding lard to a sourdough, Cubanesque!
I can recommend pumpkin seed oil, especially for darker loaves with more rye. Gives the bread a great taste and fun color
I'd definitely love to see what butter does to the sourdough. Thanks!
This is really great that you did this- thank you! I was wondering what adding fat did to a loaf. I made a traditional loaf of Alaskan sourdough Sheepherder’s that calls for melted butter, milk, baking soda and sugar. I am not sure what the purpose of all those extra ingredients but it resulted in an amazing sandwich bread. Sort of a brioche. Note: the hydration of this dough is considerably low. Your video answers part of my question about why the hydration is so low and also texture. Thanks again.
...thank you for doing the experiment--have always wondered what effect oil would have on sourdough. I think that adding melted butter would probably have a similar effect as the oil, as both are fatty substances, and maybe a closer crumb. Also, I think that the taste would be more pleasant to the tastebuds. I love your experiments and are most appreciated!
Adding butter or milk makes the bread softer
Awesome Sune. Have you done a sourdough bread with rye flour and bread flour mix? If you have can you drop the link here as I could not find it in your blogs.
Thanks again for the lessons!
Yeah finally! Definitely please try with butter. I have been using a soup spoon of oil for a month now because rhe bread lasts long... it doesn't dry out so fast.
Love this! I’m new to bread making and have my first sourdough loaf in the oven as I type this. Fascinating stuff. Thanks!
Did it turn out ok?q
If you're putting oil in your dough, the type of oil can also affect how the dough performs. Virgin olive oil (and I assume other virgin oils) has some antimicrobial properties that refined oils don't have. It would be interesting to see how much of the slowing down of the fermentation is due to this, and how much is due to the mechanical properties of the fat. For the same reason it would be interesting to compare honey and white sugar.
The experiment I'd most like to see is how much of an effect overnight proofing in the fridge has, and if it's baking cold or the time that makes the difference if any.
I second the overnight proofing in the fridge experiment. I just use less starter and use 16 to 24 hours total time (Proof and bulk) depending on the room temperature. The danger I see is will smaller percentages of starter the larger the error in measurement i.e. 1 gram off at 50g is ok where at 5g it is a problem. My scale only goes down to 1g resolution so I could be at 5.99g when it says 5g.
I love your videos! I am a novice and determined to make the perfect loaf of sourdough bread! Thanks!
I have been doing equal parts salt and olive oil and it works great. So only like 2% oil (I also do 4% sugar). I live in DRY colorado and this allows my loaves to stay soft and edible for 3+ days!
Great experiment! Could we get an update on shelf life for these three loaves? I've heard oil can act to keep bread fresh longer. Thanks!
I second this.
That's why I add Olive Oil to mine, but only 5%. I think it does make a difference in holding, but I really haven't compared it.
Very interesting! I’ve decided I don’t like letting my boules bake uncovered long enough to brown “sufficiently” since it makes the crust much tougher and I don’t enjoy eating that as much as softer crust. May have to try this out, and I’m very curious about the same type of experiment but with butter, yes! 🙏🏻🧈
Thank you. I would like to see what the butter would do to the sourdough bread. Thank you once again.
You haven´t told it but i think you also let it ferment in the fridge over night? And another question, yoiu bake it under the lid until its ready ? Or did you remove the lid ?
Italian Americans added oil and sugar to their pizza dough due to lack of powerful ovens in the US at the time when they first migrated to the States. Plain dough would dry out when baked in lower temp ovens over long period. Even professional pizziaoli recommend adding oil and sugar when making pizza in a home oven.
A change in flour supplier due to C19 brought a few comments that the crumb wasn't as nice, especially after a day or two. I have started adding a mild olive oil to increase elasticity. Seems to have met with approval.
I use a 24hr refrigerated bulk ferment rather than all that pesky kneading. Works for me, just as it did for all those village bakers of old.
Thanks for the video.
I made normal bread (flour + yeast) with only olive oil (no water). It created a lovely, flaky, pastry-like bread. It was nice with Italian food - so crumbly.
can I ask a pretty basic question? How do you stop your bread sticking in the proofing baskets? I often have to add quite a lot of flour to mine to present this.
Dust with rice flour (or another gluten free flour) :)
Another great video, Sune! Well done and thank you for your effort.
Couple o questions: is the oil added as part of the liquids, and if so, is the water percentage reduced to compensate? Also, was the dough refrigerated before cooking, and how long for if it was? Re butter addition, I imagine you might start approaching something brioche like with its addition, although I realise without also adding eggs it would not be entirely the same.
Thanks for all the experiments. They are very helpful. I am so glad that I found this video.
Do you consider oil as part of the hydration? Ie, with the addition of 20% olive oil, you are at 100% hydration. What if you reduce the water proportion, what will happen then?
love this experiment and this approach
Wonderful experiment. Please do a version with no oil vs olive vs coconut vs butter at 20% each to see the effects. Thank you.
Great! I'll try a batch with 10% so my kids can eat the crust. It'll be interesting to see the effect of butter, although how do you apply it: pomade or melted?
I don’t add oil to my dough, but I use olive oil to wet my hands during coil folds instead of water because I usually do 85-90% hydration and don’t want to add more water. I’ve not noticed a difference in my crust or my oven spring. But there is probably less than 2% oil being used.
What's the hydration of the dough and which flour did you use? They have a lot of strength already after the first stretch and fold.
80% hydration. The flours are from a local Danish mill called Kornby mølle. There wheat flour no. 1 and rye flour no 3 :)
Love watching that oven spring 😆
Great tests! Best regards from Hungary!
Very interesting, thank you very much
I just think things were tested the way you did, for everyone the same method.
-But if we put the fat in another way, for example,
First method autolysis of flour and water and sour, after resting 20 minutes to an hour we continue kneading, then add oil, continue kneading.
- A second method of kneading everything except oil, after uniting dough you can add oil and continue kneading.
- All in all Thank you very much, I very much enjoyed, the method you present, doing well, fun to follow you
Best regards
Great video. Can I ask what lid you use for the baking?
It would be interesting to see what butter does to the dough! I imagine it would be similar. Experiment time! 😁
I put butter in all my loaves, try it!