I share your frustration with the design of the locking mechanism for the mixer bowl. And that handle on the bowl never fails to seduce me into trying to use it to drag the mixer from the back of the counter to the front, which always results in the bowl coming loose. I'm glad to know I'm not missing anything by not using a food processor or mixer. I know no-knead is better, but I can't give up the pleasure of feeling the miraculous way the dough progresses during the stretch and fold process.
I use a Magimix food processor with the dough blade and it's plenty powerful enough to knead dough in a couple of minutes. The problem is if the hydration is north of 70% the dough is so wet that it gets sucked up the centre of the blade, down the spindle, and havoc can ensue if you don't stop before it gets inside the motor base! So useful for a quick yeasted loaf, but not that flexible.
So what I get from this is "Do what works for you!" Good to know! As an aside, I gotta tell ya Sune, from an editing perspective you have my respect. I can't imagine trying to put four different videos on screen all at once, starting and ending at precisely the same time. And then there's keeping track of 4 different loaves of bread while in the process of filming. Very impressive! My hat is off to you. 🎩
Always good to see you experiment Sune. I am a microbaker in the States that mixes six 800g. loaves at a time using an Ankarsrum mixer. As you noted, gluten development occurs naturally during the long sourdough fermentation, so I think of a mechanical mixer as just that...a mixer. Its purpose is not gluten development. After mixing, I do 2-3 S&Fs in a 3.5 gallon Rubbermaid tub at 30-45 minute intervals and generally ferment for a total time of approx. 6 hours, depending on ambient kitchen temperature. I have done no-knead experiments and found similar results to yours. Regarding ATK's recommendation, I would say this: for 50-65% hydration doughs that utilize IDY and normal 2 hour rise times, a powerful food processor can be a better tool than a KitchenAid mixer. KitchenAid cautions against mixing at speeds higher than 2 for more than a few minutes. Lower hydration doughs are taxing on motors, but a substantial machine like the Cuisinart 14 Cup, fitted with the optional plastic dough blade, mixes and develops bagel and pizza doughs quickly without building too much heat. Cheers!
Sune, Your pick is about what I would have choose but I'm no expert just a long time sourdough baker. I noticed you're trying to mount the mixer bowl backward. Try this, place the bowl on it's pegs with the handle in a downward position (instead of Up like you were trying) then place the palm of your other hand on the back of the bowl and lift up. NB
Nice to see you back!!! ❤ Very thankful I have found your channel because you have made my bread baking MUCH BETTER and A LOT EASIER!!! Along with all your wonderful recipes, including the oatmeal bread from school, I make a 200+ year old recipe from my grandmother, instead of eating the frankenfood they call bread in USA. Grandma alway claimed that her granmother's rye bread recipe was no-knead, but we all thought she was exaggerating, considering how labor intensive cooking/baking was in the old country with wood stoves. My grandma passed when I was a child more than fifty years ago, so I couldn't learn more from her. You're the next best person for guidance. For years I searched for answers, now I have them!!! 😊 I use the no-knead or stretch & fold method, and age it in the refrigerator for extra flavor. Now I understand...THANK YOU!!! My only problem is that my family watches you too and knows that it's fairly easy to have fresh bread daily...so now they expect it. 😂 Thank you, I am so full of joy to see you back and looking well!!!
That was amazing 👏 I make sourdough almost every day because I absolutely love the feel of the dough, and it seems magical to me. This experiment was eye-opening. I do the stretch and fold method. However, it seems it might not even be necessary. My method is I mill my flour mix all the ingredients and then put the dough in the refrigerator overnight, remove it in the morning and after 1 hour I start the stretch and folds then bulk ferment, shape and put back in the fridge overnight and bake the next day or couple of days. So easy. Thank you for this video!
Nice one. I just bought my first stand mixer, Kitchen Aid tilt head, but I haven't used it yet. I thought kneading in a mixer was done until the entire ball pulls away from the bowl, but that didn't seem to happen. Maybe that does not happen with such high hydration? Maybe with longer mixing it might have? Other thoughts: how close the dough hook gets to the bottom is adjustable; if too high or if amount of dough is too small, then it may not knead completely. There is probably a minimum size dough that can be kneaded in a stand mixer (as a percentage of the maximum for that bowl size) but I don't know what that is; one website I found suggested it might be about 25%. I note the food processor loaf spent the last 25 minutes on steel rather than on rack and had a more done looking bottom crust, and maybe also slightly thicker. @13:10 (not important for this experiment but possibly relevant in future experiments).
I did one stretch and fold about an hour after mixing all ingredients, to better combine things, then let proof at room temperature until I got about a 60% rise. That took about 8 hours. Baked in the morning after overnight in refrigerator. Results were just as good as when I do multiple stretch and folds. Not quite no-knead, but close.
Amazing....no knead wins the prize for me with sourdough. Thank goodness I need my expensive stand mixer for other things LOL. Thank you for taking the time to create this video.
Good to see you back. good experiment, based on my cock-ups, it doesn't surprise me that results don't vary that much, after all it's just bread: flour, water , salt, starter.
Hi Sune! I hope someday you do an experiment to show how long to wait to slice sourdough bread for optimum crumb; maybe one cut straight from the oven, one an hour later, one 4 hrs later and one the next day? Some people insist on having warm bread but then wonder why it’s gummy. Love your channel!
When I am short on time I add half the flour to liquid and beat with hand mixer. I fold in the rest of flour and proceed with your process. Bread is excellent with open crumb. Using hand mixer with half flour first makes mixing easier. Thank you for 2 years of good sourdough bread. K
Thanks a lot for this interesting experiment. In fact I would have expected bigger differences. I will try the no knead method in my next baking processes. Greetings 🇩🇪
I use a food processor for mixing, it makes my life way easier (if hydration is not very high). And it does get warm, if it becomes an issue you can try to put some ice instead of water. Pretty decent bread I might say.
FYI your ultimate sour dough roll recipe on your blog seems to be broken, was disappointed when I went to pull the recipe to make them. Love the content!
Your process is so interesting. I’ve always been so paranoid about degassing my dough prior to the long ferment. But you seem to pack it down into your fermentation container. I’m baffled how you get such beautiful airy bread after degassing it so much.
I wonder… perhaps the hydration was too high for a food processor. I think it works well for low hydration things like drop biscuits or pie crust. I felt for you when I saw how sticky it was afterwards. Cleanup must not have been fun.
Hey Suni! One thing that I was always wondering: could you be so kind as to get the temperature of your water and then your dough at all phases? Thanks and keep up the good work.
Hello Sune. I have been baking sourdough ever since I saw your 1st YT clip and If I may say so, I think Ive gotten pretty fair at it (thx to your guidance). I still have one nagging problem though. It is very tough bottoms of the loaves. I have 2 sheet pans under the rack to help lessen the heat but I stil keep getting loaves with a very tough bottom crust. What more can i do to get a bottom that is not so tough.....? Help.....!
Sune, I haven't watched this video yet, but I have to ask about that wild looking guitar on the right of the intro shot. What's thew word? Some sort of composite material body, no doubt, but colour me curious! Alright, now to enjoy the food processor experiment :D
Okay, definitely time to try the no-knead method! I've been doing stretch-n-folds for years now with sourdough. Interesting to note I can cut another step (and hour) out of the process without any significant loss in bread quality.
Very cool. Does the guitar balance well? I assume the body isn't super heavy (but could obviously be wrong!). I'm sure it sounds good; body material doesn't make a significant difference on solidbody electrics :)
The no knead was interesting, but I mostly do inclusions because I rarely make just a plain bread... only if someone requests it. So then maybe you can do a no knead experiment with inclusions 🤔
How about repeating the experiment properly, learning how to use the food processor with the correct blade, pulsing technique until it forms a ball, etc.?
Rant on. I was tempted to buy a mixer like that Kitchenaid, until I learned that it has a tiny whiny and LOUD motor. Why don't they put in a large motor with the proper torque/revolution/transmission? I wouldn't mind a couple extra kilos of metal if it resulted in a nice and steady job (for decades, no less) with bearable noise levels. I don't think it would add too much to the cost either, as these are way overpriced already for the amount of material. I don't get it. Rant off.
The KA 8 Qt. Commercial model uses a completely different motor that is strong and much quieter. NSF Certified® Commercial Series 8 Quart Bowl Lift Stand Mixer Model: KSM8990WH Discounted Price (with sign-in on their website) $679.99 MSRP: $949.99 Save $270.00
Nice to see you again Suni!
I share your frustration with the design of the locking mechanism for the mixer bowl. And that handle on the bowl never fails to seduce me into trying to use it to drag the mixer from the back of the counter to the front, which always results in the bowl coming loose. I'm glad to know I'm not missing anything by not using a food processor or mixer. I know no-knead is better, but I can't give up the pleasure of feeling the miraculous way the dough progresses during the stretch and fold process.
To put the bowl on your Kitchenaid mixer, first tilt the bowl to put the flanges on the sides of the bowl onto the pegs, then push down on the back. 😉
good to see you back! Hope you’re all healed up.❤
I use a Magimix food processor with the dough blade and it's plenty powerful enough to knead dough in a couple of minutes. The problem is if the hydration is north of 70% the dough is so wet that it gets sucked up the centre of the blade, down the spindle, and havoc can ensue if you don't stop before it gets inside the motor base! So useful for a quick yeasted loaf, but not that flexible.
So what I get from this is "Do what works for you!" Good to know!
As an aside, I gotta tell ya Sune, from an editing perspective you have my respect. I can't imagine trying to put four different videos on screen all at once, starting and ending at precisely the same time. And then there's keeping track of 4 different loaves of bread while in the process of filming. Very impressive! My hat is off to you. 🎩
Thank you ❤️ I actually do those things to keep me on my toes 🤣
Always good to see you experiment Sune. I am a microbaker in the States that mixes six 800g. loaves at a time using an Ankarsrum mixer. As you noted, gluten development occurs naturally during the long sourdough fermentation, so I think of a mechanical mixer as just that...a mixer. Its purpose is not gluten development. After mixing, I do 2-3 S&Fs in a 3.5 gallon Rubbermaid tub at 30-45 minute intervals and generally ferment for a total time of approx. 6 hours, depending on ambient kitchen temperature. I have done no-knead experiments and found similar results to yours. Regarding ATK's recommendation, I would say this: for 50-65% hydration doughs that utilize IDY and normal 2 hour rise times, a powerful food processor can be a better tool than a KitchenAid mixer. KitchenAid cautions against mixing at speeds higher than 2 for more than a few minutes. Lower hydration doughs are taxing on motors, but a substantial machine like the Cuisinart 14 Cup, fitted with the optional plastic dough blade, mixes and develops bagel and pizza doughs quickly without building too much heat. Cheers!
Sune, Your pick is about what I would have choose but I'm no expert just a long time sourdough baker. I noticed you're trying to mount the mixer bowl backward. Try this, place the bowl on it's pegs with the handle in a downward position (instead of Up like you were trying) then place the palm of your other hand on the back of the bowl and lift up. NB
Thanks. I'll try that next time I use it 😁
Nice to see you back!!! ❤ Very thankful I have found your channel because you have made my bread baking MUCH BETTER and A LOT EASIER!!!
Along with all your wonderful recipes, including the oatmeal bread from school, I make a 200+ year old recipe from my grandmother, instead of eating the frankenfood they call bread in USA.
Grandma alway claimed that her granmother's rye bread recipe was no-knead, but we all thought she was exaggerating, considering how labor intensive cooking/baking was in the old country with wood stoves. My grandma passed when I was a child more than fifty years ago, so I couldn't learn more from her. You're the next best person for guidance. For years I searched for answers, now I have them!!! 😊
I use the no-knead or stretch & fold method, and age it in the refrigerator for extra flavor. Now I understand...THANK YOU!!!
My only problem is that my family watches you too and knows that it's fairly easy to have fresh bread daily...so now they expect it. 😂
Thank you, I am so full of joy to see you back and looking well!!!
That was amazing 👏
I make sourdough almost every day because I absolutely love the feel of the dough, and it seems magical to me. This experiment was eye-opening. I do the stretch and fold method. However, it seems it might not even be necessary. My method is I mill my flour mix all the ingredients and then put the dough in the refrigerator overnight, remove it in the morning and after 1 hour I start the stretch and folds then bulk ferment, shape and put back in the fridge overnight and bake the next day or couple of days. So easy.
Thank you for this video!
Nice one. I just bought my first stand mixer, Kitchen Aid tilt head, but I haven't used it yet. I thought kneading in a mixer was done until the entire ball pulls away from the bowl, but that didn't seem to happen. Maybe that does not happen with such high hydration? Maybe with longer mixing it might have?
Other thoughts: how close the dough hook gets to the bottom is adjustable; if too high or if amount of dough is too small, then it may not knead completely. There is probably a minimum size dough that can be kneaded in a stand mixer (as a percentage of the maximum for that bowl size) but I don't know what that is; one website I found suggested it might be about 25%.
I note the food processor loaf spent the last 25 minutes on steel rather than on rack and had a more done looking bottom crust, and maybe also slightly thicker. @13:10 (not important for this experiment but possibly relevant in future experiments).
I did one stretch and fold about an hour after mixing all ingredients, to better combine things, then let proof at room temperature until I got about a 60% rise. That took about 8 hours. Baked in the morning after overnight in refrigerator. Results were just as good as when I do multiple stretch and folds. Not quite no-knead, but close.
Amazing....no knead wins the prize for me with sourdough. Thank goodness I need my expensive stand mixer for other things LOL. Thank you for taking the time to create this video.
Good to see you back. good experiment, based on my cock-ups, it doesn't surprise me that results don't vary that much, after all it's just bread: flour, water , salt, starter.
Hi Sune! I hope someday you do an experiment to show how long to wait to slice sourdough bread for optimum crumb; maybe one cut straight from the oven, one an hour later, one 4 hrs later and one the next day? Some people insist on having warm bread but then wonder why it’s gummy. Love your channel!
I have actually thought of doing that soon 😊
@ No way!!! Too funny. I’ll be watching out for it and will share with my sourdough friends 🍞☺️
When I am short on time I add half the flour to liquid and beat with hand mixer. I fold in the rest of flour and proceed with your process. Bread is excellent with open crumb.
Using hand mixer with half flour first makes mixing easier.
Thank you for 2 years of good sourdough bread. K
Thanks a lot for this interesting experiment. In fact I would have expected bigger differences. I will try the no knead method in my next baking processes. Greetings 🇩🇪
I use a food processor for mixing, it makes my life way easier (if hydration is not very high). And it does get warm, if it becomes an issue you can try to put some ice instead of water. Pretty decent bread I might say.
Nice to see you again! Can you tell me what spray you use before the bulk fermentation? Thank you
Cuisinart food processor with plastic blade kneads beautifully. Be careful not to overknead. It should form a ball when it’s done.
FYI your ultimate sour dough roll recipe on your blog seems to be broken, was disappointed when I went to pull the recipe to make them. Love the content!
How is it broken? 😊
@ loads the top of the page, but not the recipe like other video links to blog
@@billpowell1614 The issues should be fixed now. It changed the domain name an that comes with a bunch of potential issues 😊
Thanks a lot, great you are back again🎉🎉🎉🎉...I missed your Saturday video 😊
Kenwood stand mixer every time. Perfect and easy for all my breads
Your process is so interesting. I’ve always been so paranoid about degassing my dough prior to the long ferment. But you seem to pack it down into your fermentation container. I’m baffled how you get such beautiful airy bread after degassing it so much.
I did a bunch of experiments on what makes an open crumb, and my conclusion was it's mostly the flour. Handling doesn't make much of a difference :)
I wonder… perhaps the hydration was too high for a food processor. I think it works well for low hydration things like drop biscuits or pie crust. I felt for you when I saw how sticky it was afterwards. Cleanup must not have been fun.
Hey Suni!
One thing that I was always wondering: could you be so kind as to get the temperature of your water and then your dough at all phases?
Thanks and keep up the good work.
Good to You you Sune hi 👋 from 🇨🇦 ❤❤❤❤
the food processor results were better than i expected, but the mess involved seems like it's not worth it. gimme kneaded or no-knead any day!
Hello Sune. I have been baking sourdough ever since I saw your 1st YT clip and If I may say so, I think Ive gotten pretty fair at it (thx to your guidance). I still have one nagging problem though. It is very tough bottoms of the loaves. I have 2 sheet pans under the rack to help lessen the heat but I stil keep getting loaves with a very tough bottom crust. What more can i do to get a bottom that is not so tough.....? Help.....!
Do you use a baking steel? I could help insulate and even out the heat :)
Hey Sune, Have you done an experiment comparing a loaf made with bread flour to a loaf made with Italian type 00 flour?
Sune, I haven't watched this video yet, but I have to ask about that wild looking guitar on the right of the intro shot. What's thew word? Some sort of composite material body, no doubt, but colour me curious! Alright, now to enjoy the food processor experiment :D
Okay, definitely time to try the no-knead method! I've been doing stretch-n-folds for years now with sourdough. Interesting to note I can cut another step (and hour) out of the process without any significant loss in bread quality.
It is a guitar I made myself with a 3D printed body and a wooden neck 😁
Very cool. Does the guitar balance well? I assume the body isn't super heavy (but could obviously be wrong!). I'm sure it sounds good; body material doesn't make a significant difference on solidbody electrics :)
I thought the machine won. It looked like it had the best gluten development when you shaped them, and the crumb was the prettiest.
Yay, du er tilbage :D
The no knead was interesting, but I mostly do inclusions because I rarely make just a plain bread... only if someone requests it. So then maybe you can do a no knead experiment with inclusions 🤔
Why would a scandi home baker not use an Ankarsrum??
How about repeating the experiment properly, learning how to use the food processor with the correct blade, pulsing technique until it forms a ball, etc.?
Rant on. I was tempted to buy a mixer like that Kitchenaid, until I learned that it has a tiny whiny and LOUD motor. Why don't they put in a large motor with the proper torque/revolution/transmission? I wouldn't mind a couple extra kilos of metal if it resulted in a nice and steady job (for decades, no less) with bearable noise levels. I don't think it would add too much to the cost either, as these are way overpriced already for the amount of material. I don't get it. Rant off.
The KA 8 Qt. Commercial model uses a completely different motor that is strong and much quieter. NSF Certified® Commercial Series 8 Quart Bowl Lift Stand Mixer
Model: KSM8990WH
Discounted Price (with sign-in on their website)
$679.99
MSRP:
$949.99
Save $270.00
I think your percentages are a bit off...
They're baker's percentages 😊
ruclips.net/video/vK2egUSmTS8/видео.html