For MASSIVE Oven Spring turn your oven OFF
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- Опубликовано: 10 авг 2022
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You are continuously improving our learning curve, thank you Jack, again!!!!
This is by far the best advice ever. Thank you thank you thank you.
After years of baking nice breads but without oven spring, the solution was there. Simple. Too simple.
You're the BEST.
OH DID I SAY THANK YOU!!!!
Sometimes it's the simplest concepts that escape us most easily! Thank you Jack!
Have read about this before but never tried it. So heated up the oven and Dutch oven to 300C, whacked in my loaf and turned off the oven for 10. Turned on the oven and baked as normal but reduced bake time by 5 mins. Bam! Best spring I have ever had in four years of sourdough baking. Thanks Jack! I am stoked
Hi Jack
I tried the turn off oven trick and it works. Huge loaf and not dry. Yay
Thank you for explaining this. I get it now and I'm definitely trying it this weekend.
this is so exciting! thank you Jack I'm trying this today. love and blessings to you!
I did this and the result is amazing. Thanks for the tip. I can't switch the fan of in my oven, but I got over the problem now
I’m dying to try this now. 🤩👌🏻Thanks for the idea!
Hi Jack thanks for your work.
What you say is all right so far. I have already tested it myself: no difference.
Because it depends on the oven. For example, mine starts to cool actively when I switch it off.
I always bake with falling temperature anyway ... For the "Ovenspring", in my opinion, just the right cooking temperature is more important, especially now in a hot summer.
Your videos are always packed with great helpful tips. Thanks Jack.
Thanks Jack. I had nice oven spring before, not great, but OK. But this method blew my sox off. The oven spring was the best I've ever had. Just crazy good.
No matter how old you get, you can always learn something new. Don’t stop Jack for when you win with new knowledge we also win because you share
My oven only goes up to 200 but even so I had discovered that the outside of it was forming a hard crust and preventing the inside from springing, so last time I baked a sourdough loaf two days ago, I experimented with starting at a lower heat and turning it up after the steaming process to brown and crisp up. It did work but not as well as the one you have right there! I shall try turning the oven off once it goes in. Thanks Jack!
Interesting, and I will try this the next time I'll bake a sourdough bread (or baguettes) but what does this mean in terms of oven time. Do those eight minutes with the oven turned off 'count' for as much as the minutes the oven is turned on?
OmG. I just love your tips and how you explain. I was so scared to turn off my oven. After watching ur video, I watch some other experiments too. Finally I tried I didnt turned off completely but lower the temperature and first time my bread roll rose perfectly.
Great tip. Om trying it with my next bake I baked bread forc25 years with the Aga stove on the farm and what youbsay is so true . Now we're in the city I miss that stove . 😢 thanks for a good video...clear and informative ❤
Perfect. Love this hot box concept. I have same oven and same problems u stated. My crust gets so hard and so tough n zero oven spring
For anyone like me who don’t have any fancy stuff I proof my bread on a upside down cookie tray on parchment paper and slide it onto my pizza stone ,get a great spring ,amazing
I've been having issues with an early stop in rise and have been wanting to try starting at a lower temp so I will definitely try this in my trials
I was amazed by how well this works! Thanks for sharing.
I proofed two "Italian" loaves on a heavy, cold cast iron pizza pan. I preheated the oven to 450F, then just before putting the loaves & iron in, I adjusted the set point to 350F. I also threw a shot glass full of water into a pot under the loaves. The result was that my loaves doubled in size while baking and height may have almost tripled. I am using all-purpose flour because it costs about 1/3 the price of bread (or strong) flour. The cost for making two 350 gram loaves is presently less than 50 cents.
I get my best oven spring by starting in a cold oven. I use two breadpans, one covering the other as a lid. Remove the cover half way through for a nice crust. I also heat the oven and then turn it off to proof. More experimentation is in order. Thanks Jack.
This is very intriguing. All of the sourdough material I came across when learning (initially, I continue to learn) went with the max temp, hour long vessel preheat logic (Cast Iron Dutch Oven in my case). I would love more detail from you on this. I have been using a different "Oven Off" method than what Jack is noting here where I do the preheat stage, I also toss in one ice cube to add more steam and turn off the heat for 25 minutes. Once I uncover, I bake WITH CONVECTION on for generally 20 mins. Obviously, ingredient weight matters here so for context: I tend to use 400g of flour, 80g of starter, 310-320g of water, 9g of salt.
My favourite way too with supreme results.
I also start with a cold oven, heat to 450, bake in a Romertopf pan with a few ice cubes tucked under the parchment paper for 30 minutes, then lid off for 10. I’m not sure how this latest method would work but I’m going to try it.
I also find this gives me the best results too, cold oven start in a covered pot.
@@wendyworldly2264 I too use a huge Romertopf dutch oven. To clarify, you put the dough in the Romertopf with ice cubes then turn on oven? I might try that next time.
Thank you! Very interesting! A video demonstrating this phenomenon would be really nice to watch and learn.
Thanks for another great tip Jack. I'm going to try this next bake.
I’m soooo excited! Just ordered your book!
Hi Jack a great tip that worked a treat.
My oven is electric and expels the hot air when you turn it off or turn it down. So I simply turned it off at the main switch then turned it back on again after 10 minutes… my best bloomer ever!
Usually turning the temp to very low will stop the fan expelling the hot air and have a similar effect.
Finally understood the whole concept. Thanks mate!
I've recently got a new oven and so still figuring out the best way to cook my loaves in it. I find it cooks a loaf in about half the time my old one did, I guess it holds the heat better. I'm really curious to try turning off the heat all together and seeing what happens, thanks for the info!!
Hi Jack Eureka ,
Since following all your videos in NZ.My only problem has been coming to grips with all the settings and having a crust form too early when baking in tins.
I tried turning oven off after preheat 220C. I may add I have two sheets of steel under the baking stone and some chunky stainless steel in my water tray,which all hold the oven heat.
I watch the spring for just over 16 mins then put on fan heat ,with just top and bottom elements to brown near end.Bread was perfect .
Many thanks R
Another fabulous video Jack. Full of new ideas to try.
Very informative gonna give it a try. I did have to watch till the end. Needed to hear everything.
"Sit and bloom in peace" I love it. Blown brain indeed.
You've got me thinking that, without that "flow" being present, it might be allowing a thin, more humid layer of air to hang out at the dough's still moist surface.
I've been trying the turn-the-oven-on-when-you-put-the-dough-in method, definite improvements but still less than ideal. I want the crumb more open.
I like how 'your' method here allows for a hot tray to boil up the hot water.
Defo doing this next time, thanks again Jack, you've helped me more than any other baker.
Based on this video I have done this a couple times. I am not getting any more vertical bounce than I get in a dutch oven, but I am getting an airy, more sandwich-y loaf.
Now that’s what I’m talking about.
Can’t wait to give this a go. My oven has been bugging me for ages as it’s too ‘efficient’ at pushing out all the steam that I put it and I’ve been experimenting with how to retain the steam. Now, with this new information I am going to preheat my oven to the max switch it off, wait for the extractor fan to stop, and then load and steam… am looking forward to checking out the results!
if you trigger the breaker to which the oven is wired you won't have to wait for the fan to stop^^
Good idea! Will give that a try
So much good stuff you share/teach. I love watching and listening to your video's. Side note not bread related: I used to warm up my feet in the bottom compartment of my grandmothers AGA after playing in the snow! -MD
That's where my cat used to love to go sleep. That's where we kept our socks so they'd be nice and toasty in the morning. And then of course, hairy.
Cannot wait to try!!
What’s cool is he’s a professional and still learning and willing to experiment. Life lesson right there
Short, sweet and to the point. Thanks.
Took your advice on the added spring by turning off the heat. Worked wonderfully on a White & Rye sandwich loaf in a loaf pan. The oven spring after 8 mins was amazing. Easily the same spring as the depth of the pan. Didn't have a large stone so went with a 12' Pizza stone. Worked perfect. Can't wait to try it out on other breads. Thank you!
Nice one Jack..i need to try this immediately!
I love this one! So ripe with information
Thank you so much Jack. Such great information!
What a great simple, (when you think about it), idea.
Thnx Jack cannot wait to try it..
Yep, mind blown. Thanks for explaining the science behind it, Jack.
It's always the science. Mind frigging blown. Thanks for the info.
Thank you for the advice. I did this and my bread is better than ever. Wish I could send you a picture. 😁
Ah. Thanks Jack - will give this a go. I always get superb results in a dutch oven but it means I can only bake one loaf at a time - which isn't very economical.
I'm excited you will give this a go. I have been following Jack for a while and all his recipes are perfect. I met you some time ago, hope you still remember me.
I'm going to have to try this. Certainly an interesting thought
Great idea. Will try this. Don't have a stone but have a 6mm steel plate that I bake on. Imo it's better than stone. Steel heats quicker, will not crack and has better heat storage capacity than stone.
I will try it -thanks jack 🇬🇧
Just tried and it works! The best oven spring so far.
Tks for sharing. It means a lot to us.
Hi Jack. Like your passion !!Does this method also apply if I’m using an Emile Henri clouche ?
Thank you Jack!🙂
I mostly make sandwich bread in a tin. Lately, I've been trying something similar because I wasn't happy with crust on the sides and bottom. It worked beautifully! Next time I'll try turning the oven off after I steam it up and close the door.
Blessings! 💜
Sounds like what a traditional pizza oven does? I can't wait to try this!
Thanks Jack - I will definitely give it a go!
What about heating the oven as normal but only warming your Dutch oven? Or perhaps even starting with the Dutch oven cold!
Ok, so I have a Steam oven with a bread baking setting. It’s steams and bakes (with fan). And my results have been mixed. Some good, some so-so.
Anyway tried this.
Preheated oven with stone to 230c.
Then turned on steam/bread setting at 220c for 5 minutes to get some steam circulating.
Put bread dough in and after 5 minutes or so (to get some steam around the loaf) turned oven OFF.
Went away for 20 minutes, came back and absolutely awesome spring !!
Finished off with conventional bake (no fan) at 200c fo another 15 minutes or so to brown the bread.
Will keep trying this method for sure.
Just taken two stone-baked white bloomers (sounds a bit like something from a saucy Victorian novel) from the oven after trying this, and wow! It really worked!
As usual, Jack, an inspiring and informative video, so eloquently shared, thank you. I have independently been thinking in the last few months that there was something counterproductive in putting your loaf into a very hot oven that immediately sets about killing the yeast. Wouldn't you get more rise from the increasing warmth that gives a boost to the flagging yeast (I am talking sourdough all the time here) rather than killing it as quickly as possible? I wondered if I shld put the loaf in and switch on the oven so it warms up slowly (my Nef takes around 20 min to 240C and has three levels of steam when needed). This didn't work too well. What about an oven at say 200C, loaf in, steam, switch off oven for your ten minutes then raise the temperature to the 230/240C to give you the crust? I have a probe thermometer to prove internal temperature of the loaf reaches at least 92/93C. Always fun and more to try. I love geology and baking bread!! Sad guy
I found Bake with Jack a bit late but have been trying his bloomer recipe and could never get that burst until I tried this method. Maybe it was just the stars aligning and I did everything right. Have not had a chance to test again due to heat temps in Britain messing up my last bake.
I was going to ask how this principal would work with sourdough but I think you answered that when you mentioned the Dutch oven as that is how I bake my bread. Ovens vary so much depending on where and how many elements come into play. Also which shelf position works best. This was driving me nuts when I first started baking bread but I referred to my appliance recommendations and adapted from there. One of the many things I like about your teaching is that you are open to change by trying other peoples ideas and sharing the results.
Just tried this and strewth it works brilliantly! I turned it off for 8 minutes, will push it to 9 next time. Fantastic results 👍👍👍
I tried this with a no knead crusty white bread recipe that I found on the King Arthur Flour website. I make this recipe a lot because it makes enough dough for 3 loaves (baking one loaf a day for three days). Turning the oven off made the dough even crispier (didn’t think that was possible!). I normally bake for 35 minutes, but this time turned the oven off for 10 minutes and then baked for 30 minutes with the heat back on. Thanks Jack!!
I tried this technique yesterday and it worked amazingly well. I baked a loaf with 10 per cent rye flour, the balance white. The result was really great.
Do we have to steam b/f loading bread in oven or after loading
@@ShamimAhmed-zo2su I add the steam as soon as the bread is in the oven.
Great explanation!
Thanks and congrats!
Going to give this a try
I love using my enameled cast iron dutch ovens. They make amazing bread. I will try this method on my pizza stone.
When you use a dutch oven, this method wouldn't improve it at all correct? That's what I'm thinking..
thanks love your explanation, science works nice presentation, you have great delivery
thank you Mitch :-)
Thank you Jack, love you book by the way.
All very interesting! But, I have questions. The way I learned to bake sourdough was to bake in either a covered Dutch oven or on a pizza stone with a stainless bowl over the dough for the first 20 or so minutes. Then remove the cover, sometimes reduce the heat depending on the program being used, and continue baking until done. I’ve never added steam to the oven - just relied on the lid or bowl to keep the steam inside and create the oven spring. It sounds like baking covered for the first portion of time accomplishes the steam/oven spring that occurs if the loaves are baked uncovered the entire time and you turn off the heat for eight or 10 minutes? Do I have this correct? Another question: is the total baking time the same if I turn off the oven for 8-10 minutes? Once I turn the oven back on to full temp, do I just bake for the time indicated in the recipe and no more? Thank you
Excellent questions! I too am interested in the answer!??!!
A little confused. Will this work when using a Dutch oven??
Incredible, just looked into the oven 8 mins after putting in the bread. Twice the oven spring I normally get. Thanks ever so much Jack.
Hey Jack, been following your sourdough 101 video for years but rise would 'stall' like you say, would never burst open and 'Flower"...until i discovered that video about a year ago and BOOM, just by turning oven off for 15mins it worked first time and every other loaf after that! Keep up the good work mate!
Every *other* loaf? Or *every* loaf after that?
@@religionisapoison2413 that would be a paradox
I've always been concerned about the instructions to turn down my oven after 15 minutes with sourdough. My oven is very well insulated and I don't think the temp drops fast enough. I'm going to set the lower temp as soon as I put the loaves in, effectively shutting down the oven for a bit.
Hi Jack
We need to separate the three ways of heat transfer as each way has different properties
Radiant heat travels easily throughout the loaf heating it up simultaneously on the inside and out.
Convection drives from the outside in and starts cooking and drying the outside first.
Conduction transfers the heat at the contact points.
All ovens use a mix of the above energy transfer methods and I believe the transfer method is far more important to consider than temperature when baking.
Conventional (not convection) ovens literally have vents so as heat is added at the bottom will convect (flow) around the product and transfer heat. You could keep the temperature up inside the oven without the vent and your product would take forever to cook because the air at its surface would stratify after giving up its heat energy even if the measured oven temperature is the same.
Radiant heat is the hands down winner for cooking in an oven for most things with some judicious use of conductive heat.
For bread a baking cloche is the easiest way I have found to turn convection energy into radiation energy.
Convective heat transfer is terrible for cooking but is simple and cheap to make however the energy efficiency is very poor if you are in warm climates inside a structure
how about conduction? like when bread is placed on stone to bake? is it a worse heat transfer than convection?
@@hellruby
Conduction is very efficient at transferring heat, however the heat transfer is localized to the contact area. Bread is mostly air so transfer of conductive heat through the bread is very slow. Conduction is brilliant at making the thin toasty crust at the contact point but does little to cook the opposite side of the bread.
Radiation (radiant heat )transfers heat rapidly through the entire mass quickly, think microwaves.
Convection works by transfer of heat energy from hot air directly to the bread, if the hot air is kept in motion it continuously transfers energy to the surfaces it moves against. The more the air is stirred up the faster it transfers. A convection oven transfers heat mostly by blowing hot air with a fan, heat starts coming in from the outside and travels inward. It cooks the outside quickly but takes a long time to bring the center up to temperature.
Each oven/cookware combination is a mix of all three forms of heat transfer.
If you cook with mostly microwaves the bread will cook through rather quickly but there will likely be missing a golden crust.
If your system cooks with conduction only is will be crispy cooked on the bottom and dried out on the bottom by the time the top is cooked so this form of heat usually involves thin object and flipping midway through the process like making pancakes.
Convection cooking only without the other two would make a crust on the surfaces that the air contacts but if it was sitting on an air filled insulated surface the bottom would be white so we might choose a dense stone or metal surface to cook on, that would use some of the convection heat to make conductive heat. To cook the bottom.
@@Dlgeis thanks! i finally found a scientific answer to this. so do you mean radiation is best for oven spring, while convection is worst coz the hot air is pushing against the outside? also, any idea why steam is necessary in the process of oven spring?
@@hellruby
Oven spring gets complicated. One factor is how far along the fermentation process is. Another, is your dough starting at room temperature or has it been retarded and spent 12-48 hrs in the refrigerator.
My oven is capable of 500F and it is a commercial combi oven so it really can heat fast. I use a Challenger cast iron bread pan.
I found that if I preheated to the max 500F for 20 minutes and then added my retarded and scored loaf that I had less oven spring .
If I used 425F, preheated my pan for only 10 minutes (top and bottom separated during the preheat) and then put my cold bread in and covered it I achieved maximum oven spring.
So I have found that too much heat in the beginning of the bake doesn’t work for me.
@@Dlgeis yes that’s what I find too. I am actually experimenting to bake on stove using a clay pot with lava stone inside. I preheated it with max fire for 10min and put my dough inside to cook for medium fire for 10min then min fire for another 5 min. I find that oven spring occurs fastest during min fire. Not sure if it’s bcoz of lower temp or bcoz convection issue. But will try more to see. Thanks for explaining!
Now that's something new. Do you keep the fan on for the rest of the baking?
Aha!! I’m a one trick baker: tassajara whole-wheat bread. Not good at shaping or oven spring. I was always baffled how oven spring was even possible when high heat set crust and killed yeast. Thought I just didn’t get it. Tassajara instructions bake at 350F so if I shaped the loaves right I’d probably get better spring at that lower temp… but you’ve given me the big AHA!!! THx will try on next loaf!
If you compere a cast iron bread pan and turning the oven off, do you get better oven spring by the turning off oven method?
Yesterday I baked 2 loaves of sandwich white bread in pans from one batch of dough. After the first rise, I split the dough in equal halves. Put each into a loaf pan. After the second rise, one loaf had risen noticeably more than the other, which remained so after baking. What might I have. done to cause this? Thank you Jack.
What about if you use a Dutch oven?
I think you have identified my problem. My oven is a super efficient one that stays warm for hours after. No matter the amount of steam or preheating with the good shaping, I NEVER had the ears. It opens then stop. Never "blooms". I will try this ( when the weather is not so hot) I will ask St-Yeast to give me bunny ears next time. Wish me luck .🐇🐰🥖🙏
Ooh, I'll give my standard loaves a shot with this technique and my pizza steel as well
I've been using loaf tins to bake my sourdough, and steam. I'm going to give this a 'go' this morning!
Hello dear, how are you doing? Hope you’re doing good?
Yes, i lovely share, and a wise one! Are you acquainted with the Fourneau Grande? Stone (-like) below w a groove for a rivulet of water and cast iron above. You lift up only the door and slide your loaf in. I'd be ever so curious to know what you think of this! Will you do a video or a comparison test with it??
Would this have any benefit to a loaf baking in a cloche? Could it prevent blowouts, for instance?
Jack, just a thought. Would it be the same as putting the loaf in the oven at, say, 130C and allow the oven to heat to full temperature? Or am I missing something (not unknown). While I am here a really big thank you for all your help and guidance. You have the magic touch. This old curmudgeon still has a lot to learn and you are the ideal teacher; shame you can't improve my golf swing as well. Best wishes.
smart question
V interesting. So it's like an extra rise? I'll give it a go (electric fan with a stone). Your last about using an enamel roasting tin works brilliantly by the way.
Hey Jack, would this work for a tin baked sandwich loaf as well? Presumably so...
Thanks! It makes perfect sense.
Hi Jack I am a complete beginner but slowly but surely, thanks to your videos (and your book!) I am getting there. Apologies but when you say turn of for 10 minutes do we then have to add 10m to the total baking time or are those 10m within the total baking time? sorry I hope I am making sense. Another thought, if the fan is the issue, I have the option of cooking with heat up and down with no fan. Would that be a better setting perhaps? Thank you.
I find baking to an interior temperature of 209°-210° Fahrenheit (98° celcius) is more accurate than timing the bake.
Hey Jack, what about placing the bread in a proofing box at a higher temperature ? For approximately an hour before baking....
Can this method be applied to a simple white loaf or brioche? Thank you 😊
Just found your channel and am I happy I did! I have baked bread for 50 years and still scald the cat now and then. Never had a scale, thermometer, bannetons, etc. But I made it work. I have those things now and have been thinking these items "should" be earned. We need to learn to bake bread by the "seat of our pants" before we get any baking luxuries. I am never "scared" of baking bread and am willing to try anything, even recipes I should not. But, I will only give up when my body does and not before. Thank You very much for your wonderful channel I am enjoying it more than I can say.
Sound like a plan too me going to give it a try
I was always thinking about doing this, but never didi it because I was like If this idea works then people would do it since long time. Well I was wrong, next time If I ahve an idea I will just give it a go.
My oven shut off unexpectedly half-way through my bake. Well actually I don't know exactly when it shut off, but I checked it right after I uncovered it.
I had to reset the breaker on my electric panel to get the oven started again. So, I was happy to hear that my loaf may not be ruined!
Would the same apply if you put your dough in cold pan hot oven
My oven has no individual control over the fan, so if I turn it off, the fan keeps running, which (I guess) cools the interior down fast. Will that ruin this idea?
(I've just thought though.... I COULD turn the whole oven and hob off at the isolator switch, if I'm not trying to cook supper at the same time!).
I found this technique works with a dutch oven as well! I saw a significant difference in initial "blooming" when I turned the oven off for 10 minutes after loading my sourdough in my dutch oven. It's been my go to method for my sourdough baking this past year. The loaves turned out significantly larger and lighter in texture.
How long did you preheat your DO ?
@@sherylmanygoats6910 Hi Sheryl - I put my DO in the oven when I turn it on. Lid sits by, not on, the DO. Set oven to 450 F. I let it set another 10 minutes after reaching temp for the cast iron to catch up on the temp. Load the sourdough, put on lid, slide in the oven and turn the oven off. Set timer for ten minutes. When I turn it back on, I set it to 425 F. I use a bbq thermometer that I set for 207 F and stick in the loaf at this time - it's a good time to check that spring! Then I don't open the oven until the remote goes off indicating the temp is reached - about 20 minutes? There is still more spring that takes place - soo cool to see how much more it's grown. When it's finished I keep the DO in the oven for the next loaf and set the first loaf on the oven rack next to the DO to brown up. Love this method. Have been using it for a couple years now and my family loves these loaves. gl!
Would this method work if I use a dutch oven? I usually bake for the first 20 min in a closed dutch oven, then remove the lid. I use the convection setting. I can't imagine shutting off the oven when the lid is on would have an effect, but not sure..
I love the way you explain how it works, Jack! I need to understand why before I can confidently do! I must have been a very annoying child! Why, why, why!! I am going to try this definitely. I haven't quite got to grips with the oven yet having moved in only weeks ago ... but I will! I love the side effect of the steaming process too ... wiping down the wet inner surfaces keeps the oven so clean!!