i just wana say you really helped me get better at bread making from your very reliable recipes to these videos which show you don't have to stress over bread. Because even though everyone makes it seem like something you must be precise at, you've shown there's a fair amount of give when it comes to bread making.
I’ve only done it a few times, but to get around the problem of not getting enough color/caramelization from baking on a lower temperature: I switch my oven to the broiler setting at the end of the baking time and let it go till i get the color i want.
The key is the 80% hydration bread which does better at the highest temperatures. But if you dropped to 70% hydration, you can get fantastic spring at 375-425°f. Also removing the cover after 20min and turning up the temp to 425°f to finish browning would have ensured each of these 4 loaves would have browned adequately.
Experiment idea: different sized bannetons, same amount of dough. I think many people’s breads suffer from not using the ideal sized banneton for their breads and leads them to have flatter breads than desired, or they misjudge their proofing times.
@@hermansohier7643 I've experienced that first hand. I thought maybe I just didn't develop my gluten properly. Do you still get a good amount of spring with unscored wet dough?
I use a three step baking method: 1) 20 min @ 500º covered 2) 15 min @ 450º uncovered 3) 20 min uncovered, oven off, door propped open Seems to produce a good crust. I also find bread tastes better if left overnight, uncovered, before cutting/eating
I do something similar 1) 12 minutes @ 480 with steam 2) 18 minutes @ 375 no steam and I slide it from the baking steal onto a rack (prevent the bottom browning too much) 3) Crack the oven door and leave it to cool completely, sometimes I just leave it in there overnight. I find this results in a nice crispy crust that isn't too thick or too chewy.
@foodgeek I just had to tell you that , not by experiment but I had to, bake my sourdough bread in my air fryer. I baked it at 400f. 20 minutes . Turned over and browned the bottom a bit more because I love the crisp. After baking so much lately my oven gave out and I had sourdough bread to make!
That’s Professor Foodgeek....I have learned so much from your infinite knowledge and willingness to do all the experimental work for us and show us the science. Did I mention I almost failed science 101...eeek...I am a costume designer who thinks she can cook. Love it. I have been upping my sourdough game immensely though since find your channel. Forever grateful.
Hey dude, thanks for all the videos, they've really changed the way I make sourdough. I noticed in this video that you didn't autolyse before you added starter so that gave me an experiment idea: An experiment around autolyse and what effect that has on the bread. I sometimes autolyse for an hour before adding starter but it's much easier to mix in the starter at the beginning and then autolyse. So any variations in autolyse time, with and without starter would be really cool to see.
I like this channel a lot and you seem like a super-friendly guy! that's why I click on "like" after 2 minutes almost every time, because I know the content will be superb, and I'm never dissapointed! Thank's Sune, for testing so much stuff for us! You are a great instructor!
That was an interesting experiment, putting to bed the question of optimal oven temperature, all other variable being the same. Thanks Sune, happy bread baking.
Really appreciate all your experiments! I'm not convinced that time proofing wasn't a confounding variable in this one. Yes, the loaves increased in oven spring as the temperature increased, but their time rising also increased, which you would expect to make a taller loaf. I think you need to conduct the experiment in the opposite order to conform the results. Leaving the door open for a few minutes will bring the temperature down.
I retard at 2C/35F. Sometimes I retard for 8 hours, something 18, sometimes 24, and they are still not over proofed, so 40 minutes between each loaf should make no difference. I guess a "retard time" experiment would close this question :)
I've settled on 475 covered for 20 minutes and 450 for 20 minutes for my setup. I use an old patio stone as my baking stone and a Dutch Oven. After a lot of trial, this seems to give me the most rise (tied to the first temperature) and the most golden crunch (the second temperature.) Thanks again Foodgeek for another great experiment!
My Dutch oven can only tolerate 475 F, so my adjustment has been to add 5-7 more minutes when I start the bake covered. My first loaf was flat and dense, and that extra 5 mins helped with my spring and makes the crumb much more enjoyable.
My oven died last baking and I can confirm that when one does not feel that blast of heat in the face when opening the oven door, lifting the lid on the dutch oven is a huge disappointment. ..hockey puck!. Thanks so much for your videos. I was inspired to buy one of those fabulous power grain mills. It just arrived yesterday and is great fun to use. (No worries, repairman is on the way).
I do 200°C and with 65/70% i get a good oven spring an open crumb (when i get fermentation right). But since temp is lower i let it more time unconver for browning. For a 700g boule i do 35min cover and 15min uncover.
Most US ovens are marked in 25f steps and that is all recipes use, which is about 14c. They can be adjusted in much smaller increments but most people don't bother. 180/356f is common. (300f is at the edge where maillard reactions and sugar carmelizing is only partial and with extremely long cooking times of many hours, 325f gives modest browning on items that take several hours, 350f good browning in 30minutes to 2 hours depending on the food.)
Usually i use tray whit water for 15 min in the start on 230 degrees, then remove it and bake until ready. I read somewhere that after the 15 min lower the temperature to 190 degrees and it will simulate stone oven baking, making it better tasting and better spring. Never tested it, well i guess tomorow will be my testing day, 10x for the remembering and cool tests.
All the breads I bake are, according to my recipes with "falling" temperature, meaning that I preheat the oven to 250°C (or even 280°C) for at least 30 minutes, then put the bread in the oven, and after 5-10 minutes turn the heat down to 210°C for a total of 50 Minutes of baking time (for 700g loaves). I heard that you get the best results with starting at high temperatures and then let them fall. Great channel btw!
I notice this when I bake through the seasons. In the winter I bake in my Aga oven, which has a constant oven temperature. Hotter at the top, but averages around 200c. The loaves are OK, but a little flat. During summer, the Aga is switched off as it makes the kitchen unbearably warm and I use my Neff fan oven, which I can crank up to super hot! Crunchy, well-spring, caramelised bliss! The Aga loaves are OK if I use less water, but I prefer a moister crumb. They taste great, but now awesome!
Great vid. I have also embarked on the sourdough journey and have watched your vids a lot. They have really helped thanks and im nearly there at perfecting my bread.
What?? How come I'm seeing this only now? I thought I was doomed for trying to bake sourdough (mom's fav) working with a 200 degrees LG oven. Must try. Thank you!
I would really appreciate it if you could also create some test conditions for your more 'normal' hydration breads for those of us who like to bake lower hydration bread, what temperature is best for these type? Thank you for carrying out these tests for us all! :)
Your videos are informative and entertaining. I’d be pleased with any of the variations you showed, but it helps me to understand the impact of staying with higher temperatures.
This video is very helpful for me because I don't like heating my oven to very high temperatures. I live in Florida, USA and it's hot here most of the year, the last thing I want is to heat my oven to 500°F. Even though most recipes call for that temperature I usually do 450°F instead but I wondered if I could go lower. Very helpful 😊 thanks
Gosh I want the steel and glass dome combo! I wish they shipped to USA! Sune, why are you not using this in your recent videos? It is so much fun to watch the oven spring!
i would like to know how long you baked for each temp. ? trying to figure out mine but each temp. change dont know how long i should add to the cooking time, mine no matter what always comes out tacky, i measure the inside temp and it is 100.9 C so it is cooked but tacky, i even lower the hydration but again the same..
I always knock at the bottom of the bread when it sounds hollow it is ready to get out of the oven. Use the time only for a rough estimate when to start with the knocking test.
I forgot where I found (or was given) the following reference, but I made it mine now : I consider a bread optimally baked when there is an ochre layer between the brown crust and the crumb. If I am not mistaken, only the 230C bread has it
hell, great content as usual. I like to mentioned that the 190°C looks like baguettes color in my small French village. Or pretty much every where around here.
Have you tried putting the bread in a cold oven? I used to bake that way when I was afraid of burning my hands inserting the bread in the hot dutch oven. I used to put the bread inside the cold dutch oven and that went into the cold oven then I turned it to 230ºC for 50min covered + 20min uncovered. I got nice oven spring and caramelization too. I haven't baked this way in a while and I think I still prefer starting with a hot oven, but it's an option too.
Hey Sune, Would you please make an experiment on lower hydration bread comparison. For example; everthing is the same but the hydration which are %65, %70, %75. Thanks for this great content btw :)
Hi Sune. Thank you for your experiment , I love the channel and your work! Two questions or proposals: - experiment on Rye vs. WholeWheat as the Second flour. - experiment about what the difference it makes to do the „old“ foodgeek style with autolyse & levain vs. new technique with putting everything together at once as the „new“ foddgeek style
I've found the simplest (and least likely to injure yourself) temperature is to preheat oven with dutch oven to 500f, put in dough, cover. Reduce heat to 450, set timer for 40 min, come back to baked bread. None of this removing the lid and lowering the temperature at 20 min. Works beautifully with less fuss and burns.
I love all your experiment videos and this one was no exception, although the results were not surprising to me. I now bake my breads at 475F to 450F thanks to your earlier video on best temps! Thanks, Sune!
Awesome video! I appreciate your experiments so much - thank you!! I need to watch some of your instructional videos beyond the beginner one as I see you have changed things up and I'm ready to advance :)
Generally the material you cook the bread on/in will be what gives you a thinner (less hard/thick) outside crust. Any high quality Emile Henry bread baking vessel will actually give you a much thinner crust that's still really crispy in my experience. The absorption of the enamel mixed with clay for some reason tends to have that effect. Though there are several other variables, like baking temperature, time, the amount of steam in the oven, etc. Baking on a baking steel in an open oven will generally give you the hardest crust for example.
Hello there Sune, greetings from New Zealand ..... I just love your Very 'Scientific' approach to making Sourdough Bread .... Really enjoyed this one in particular .... I am busy with a Dark Rye, as we speak .... ( I have saved it to "Link" as Tony's Dark Rye , feel free to give it a go ) .... There is an 'Experiment' that I would like to see, sure many others would like it too ..... 1) Can you please try to 'Autolyze' the dough/flour with Just the Water for an Hr. , adding the Salt and Starter thereafter .... Follow normally to your Method 2) And another.... With the Starter 'dissolved' IN the water and then added to All the Dry Ingredients, including the salt. ...... " I have tried Both methods and don't seem to see Any difference, ..... Just that the #1 above is less 'trouble' and the 'Inoculation' starts activation Immediately ..... Thanks for All your wonderful vidclip, Very best to You and Yours from Christchurch, NZ
Since you are putting them in the oven when they are cold, you probably need the higher temps to overcome the lower temperature of the dough and get the yeast to burp. What happens when you put room temperature dough into the oven with a lower temperature? It has probably done some of the rise already by that point but would still have some room to go.
The person who suggested this also mentioned they had a burned bottom on their loaf, you didn’t show the bottom but they don’t look burned from the side. I liked the 450f bread best too.
I wonder how much adjustment for time of baking was made given different temperatures. I think you could get better crumb, by longer baking time with 170C. Just a thought.
Wouldn't it make sense to solve for colouration, and bake longer at lower temp? My oven is garbage and shuts down at high temp, but by leaving bread longer in a closed oven, I get good results and colour, without ending up with dry bread. And it's always come out crispy.
What kind of oven gloves are you using? We have supposed high heat rated good gloves and the heat still gets through them quickly, if we are trying to handle pre-heated cast iron pots.
I assume you leave it in oven longer for lower temperatures? And I assume that unlike high temperature, one does not have to remove lid of dutch oven after 20 minutes
What happens in your regular bread recipes if you keep the dough in the refrigerator overnight, or two nights,or three nights ? I would like to mix your double loafs and then save one for two days later for baking when the first loaf is eaten up.
Not sure you can test this atm but cooking it at different altitudes would be interesting. As someone at mile high, i find it hard to figure out how to adjust baking times for my bread.
Hmmm I'm new to making sourdough and starters. But not to eating a sourdough. I loved them when I was in california but in uk not found. So i made it myself. Still experimenting. Now that I've stumbled on your video I must see the other videos 👀😊😊😊😉😉
Myself I found that for my regular flower and rye mix 80/20 with 75% hydration what works better is lower temp. I heat up thick baking stone for at least 1h at 250 C. Then add boiled water in tray for steam and drop the temp to 180 C. 10 minutes later I put in the bread in. Result is so much better than doing higher temperature. Edit: It is actually darker than you showed at 190 C, close to the 210 loaf you show. I guess it is because I do not cover it at all.
@Donald Kasper precisely. For me, the difference is stark, night and day: between a tight crumb and a pretty open crumb! Doesn't matter if I cover with a pyrex on a granite stone, in a dutch oven, or just my goto aluminium foil dome (couldn't cover batards any other way) on the granite stone. Even if the alum doesn't seal totally at bottom, doesn't matter. Any cover that creates that humidity environment for longer to allow the top to expand and open up will work.
Today I am planning on baking the Tartine basic country bread but to mold them and proof them over night in tin loaf pans... I wonder just how bad an idea this is? So I guess my question is: since my daughter prefers the sourdough taste over sandwich bread( your recipe and I have to say, me and my wife like it a lot)... I am searching the internet to find ways to bake sourdough in tin loaf pans for Easter shape to use in slices... thanks for the great content and sorry for the small novel...
Hi, I have watched your videos about different kneading methods. Since I have pain in my wrists, I have bought a kitchenaid but don’t know if I should let the dough bulk ferment of fold... what are the steps I should take for a good airy crumb?
Can the time spent in the fridge change the spring? If each loaf takes 45-60 min to bake the last loaf had 3-4 more hours in the fridge. Is that enough time to alter the oven spring??
THANK YOU. I have been obsessing over the temperature for years. I bake in Nepal where the home ovens only occasionally get to a temperature of 400F, but realistically we bake at 350 to 375F. Thank you for the lower temperature videos. . . . I think I get it now . . . .the higher the hydration the higher the temperature needed to explode all of that water . . . . At lower hydration you can get away with lower temperatures . . . . Would you agree?
baking temperature was very interesting. I have a question regarding proving temperature as my oven has this facility but only goes down to 35 degrees Centigrade, is this to high?
A really helpful video. Thank you Sune. My oven is too small to use steam, or even a cover or Pyrex bowl. Can you make good sourdough without using steam?
They were the same as the 230c. 20 minutes with steam, 20 without. Lately I go 25 without though. It just makes the crust more resistant to "anti crisp" :)
@@Foodgeek thank you! Am new to sourdough baking and have baked 3 loaves thus far but have ended up wif a damp interior even after baking for 30min covered and 30min uncovered for 200dc. And letting it cool for 2h. Someone mentioned to bake it even longer but if urs turned out ok mayb it’s not the baking time tats the prob now😬
Out of curiosity, my mom used to bake potatoes with a long Aluminum nail stuck through the middle. Supposedly it helped heat and cook from the inside as well. Would this method help the sourdough rise faster in the oven for a lighter bread?
That is a great experiment with lean breads. Another experiment with enriched breads might be interesting - at the temperatures you are using, I suspect enriched brads would be burnt.
i just wana say you really helped me get better at bread making from your very reliable recipes to these videos which show you don't have to stress over bread. Because even though everyone makes it seem like something you must be precise at, you've shown there's a fair amount of give when it comes to bread making.
Awesome. Would be great to see some low hydration breads from 50 to 65%!
I’ve only done it a few times, but to get around the problem of not getting enough color/caramelization from baking on a lower temperature: I switch my oven to the broiler setting at the end of the baking time and let it go till i get the color i want.
The key is the 80% hydration bread which does better at the highest temperatures. But if you dropped to 70% hydration, you can get fantastic spring at 375-425°f. Also removing the cover after 20min and turning up the temp to 425°f to finish browning would have ensured each of these 4 loaves would have browned adequately.
A vital resource. Glad someone is putting evidence against all those statements of 'conventional wisdom'.
Experiment idea: different sized bannetons, same amount of dough. I think many people’s breads suffer from not using the ideal sized banneton for their breads and leads them to have flatter breads than desired, or they misjudge their proofing times.
I second that!
I agree
Yes. Brilliant idea to do an experiment with.
I totaly agree.That,and the fact that a wet dough can be flattened by scoring it .I personaly never score a wet dough.
@@hermansohier7643 I've experienced that first hand. I thought maybe I just didn't develop my gluten properly. Do you still get a good amount of spring with unscored wet dough?
FLIP IT DUST IT
SCORE IT BAKE IT
COOL IT EAT IT
'PRECIATE IT
FOODGEEK LOGIC
FOODGEEK LOGIC
This would make a good shirt
Or even an intro or outro song for the channel.
hahahahahaahaha well done
Make the toast, eat the toast, shit the toast.
Foodgeek for President
I use a three step baking method:
1) 20 min @ 500º covered
2) 15 min @ 450º uncovered
3) 20 min uncovered, oven off, door propped open
Seems to produce a good crust. I also find bread tastes better if left overnight, uncovered, before cutting/eating
I do something similar
1) 12 minutes @ 480 with steam
2) 18 minutes @ 375 no steam and I slide it from the baking steal onto a rack (prevent the bottom browning too much)
3) Crack the oven door and leave it to cool completely, sometimes I just leave it in there overnight.
I find this results in a nice crispy crust that isn't too thick or too chewy.
When I’ve left my bread overnight, the crust actually gets softer and I lose that crisp. Any suggestions for me?
sternits Yes do what the rest of us do and devour the lot within the first hour 😂
@@sternits What if you hit it with a torch?
@foodgeek I just had to tell you that , not by experiment but I had to, bake my sourdough bread in my air fryer. I baked it at 400f. 20 minutes . Turned over and browned the bottom a bit more because I love the crisp. After baking so much lately my oven gave out and I had sourdough bread to make!
That’s Professor Foodgeek....I have learned so much from your infinite knowledge and willingness to do all the experimental work for us and show us the science. Did I mention I almost failed science 101...eeek...I am a costume designer who thinks she can cook. Love it. I have been upping my sourdough game immensely though since find your channel. Forever grateful.
'let's science the hell out of this bread!' 💜 kitchen experiments are the BEST. xoxo from hawaii
Thanks for your thorough investigations Sune. You save me so much time...and flour. I, and my many sourdough friends really appreciate it.
Hey dude, thanks for all the videos, they've really changed the way I make sourdough.
I noticed in this video that you didn't autolyse before you added starter so that gave me an experiment idea:
An experiment around autolyse and what effect that has on the bread. I sometimes autolyse for an hour before adding starter but it's much easier to mix in the starter at the beginning and then autolyse. So any variations in autolyse time, with and without starter would be really cool to see.
Don’t bother to autolyse .
Waste of time.
I like this channel a lot and you seem like a super-friendly guy! that's why I click on "like" after 2 minutes almost every time, because I know the content will be superb, and I'm never dissapointed! Thank's Sune, for testing so much stuff for us! You are a great instructor!
Hello from Greece. Amazing !! Congratulations. 🇬🇷
That was an interesting experiment, putting to bed the question of optimal oven temperature, all other variable being the same. Thanks Sune, happy bread baking.
All other variables weren't the same. The loaves that baked hotter rose for longer.
Really appreciate all your experiments! I'm not convinced that time proofing wasn't a confounding variable in this one. Yes, the loaves increased in oven spring as the temperature increased, but their time rising also increased, which you would expect to make a taller loaf. I think you need to conduct the experiment in the opposite order to conform the results. Leaving the door open for a few minutes will bring the temperature down.
I retard at 2C/35F. Sometimes I retard for 8 hours, something 18, sometimes 24, and they are still not over proofed, so 40 minutes between each loaf should make no difference.
I guess a "retard time" experiment would close this question :)
Super thank u for the effort of showing us from low to high tempt of making sourdough bread . ❤❤❤
Yay, science! I really enjoy your methods - AND your subjects. Thanks
1:35 Please don't apologise for using °C. These crazy people who still use °F need to be stopped.
Except that 90% of English speaking RUclips users are the crazy people. The C people are pretty irrelevant when it comes to ad revenue.
I've settled on 475 covered for 20 minutes and 450 for 20 minutes for my setup. I use an old patio stone as my baking stone and a Dutch Oven. After a lot of trial, this seems to give me the most rise (tied to the first temperature) and the most golden crunch (the second temperature.)
Thanks again Foodgeek for another great experiment!
I got a beautiful oven spring with heating my oven to 500F and immediately decreasing to 450F once in the oven.
J.A. Renau do you put the dough directly on the patio stone and cover it or do you put the dough in a heated Dutch oven on the stone?
@@ingridgillette5573 I use a heated Lodge cast iron dutch oven
My Dutch oven can only tolerate 475 F, so my adjustment has been to add 5-7 more minutes when I start the bake covered. My first loaf was flat and dense, and that extra 5 mins helped with my spring and makes the crumb much more enjoyable.
Thank you so much ! This is what I wanted to do and you did it so well to show the differences in slightly different temperature. Awesome !
Do you have any videos about shaping vs just tossing the dough in the basket ?
I definitely learned something today! So thanks for that, Sune!
My oven died last baking and I can confirm that when one does not feel that blast of heat in the face when opening the oven door, lifting the lid on the dutch oven is a huge disappointment. ..hockey puck!. Thanks so much for your videos. I was inspired to buy one of those fabulous power grain mills. It just arrived yesterday and is great fun to use. (No worries, repairman is on the way).
I do 200°C and with 65/70% i get a good oven spring an open crumb (when i get fermentation right). But since temp is lower i let it more time unconver for browning. For a 700g boule i do 35min cover and 15min uncover.
Most US ovens are marked in 25f steps and that is all recipes use, which is about 14c. They can be adjusted in much smaller increments but most people don't bother. 180/356f is common.
(300f is at the edge where maillard reactions and sugar carmelizing is only partial and with extremely long cooking times of many hours, 325f gives modest browning on items that take several hours, 350f good browning in 30minutes to 2 hours depending on the food.)
Usually i use tray whit water for 15 min in the start on 230 degrees, then remove it and bake until ready. I read somewhere that after the 15 min lower the temperature to 190 degrees and it will simulate stone oven baking, making it better tasting and better spring. Never tested it, well i guess tomorow will be my testing day, 10x for the remembering and cool tests.
6:25 was there a bug in the basket?
Came here for this
definitely an ant
You were watching this video Very Carefully ! :)
Yup. Can't miss that one.
more protein lol
All the breads I bake are, according to my recipes with "falling" temperature, meaning that I preheat the oven to 250°C (or even 280°C) for at least 30 minutes, then put the bread in the oven, and after 5-10 minutes turn the heat down to 210°C for a total of 50 Minutes of baking time (for 700g loaves). I heard that you get the best results with starting at high temperatures and then let them fall.
Great channel btw!
What were the baking times at the different temperatures? Were they the same or were they longer at the lower temperatures?
I notice this when I bake through the seasons. In the winter I bake in my Aga oven, which has a constant oven temperature. Hotter at the top, but averages around 200c. The loaves are OK, but a little flat. During summer, the Aga is switched off as it makes the kitchen unbearably warm and I use my Neff fan oven, which I can crank up to super hot! Crunchy, well-spring, caramelised bliss! The Aga loaves are OK if I use less water, but I prefer a moister crumb. They taste great, but now awesome!
I like a darker loaf, too, and sometimes bake for a longer period (ten minutes or so) to get there.
How long did you bake each bread for?
Great vid. I have also embarked on the sourdough journey and have watched your vids a lot. They have really helped thanks and im nearly there at perfecting my bread.
What?? How come I'm seeing this only now? I thought I was doomed for trying to bake sourdough (mom's fav) working with a 200 degrees LG oven. Must try. Thank you!
I would really appreciate it if you could also create some test conditions for your more 'normal' hydration breads for those of us who like to bake lower hydration bread, what temperature is best for these type?
Thank you for carrying out these tests for us all! :)
I use 220C for 67-70% hydration. I get great oven spring
“Normal” for him is high hydration. The flour he uses absorbs a lot of water and gets too stiff at lower hydrations
@@Chemeleon15 Interesting, thanks for that
@@re-de Thank you for the tip!
Your videos are informative and entertaining. I’d be pleased with any of the variations you showed, but it helps me to understand the impact of staying with higher temperatures.
This video is very helpful for me because I don't like heating my oven to very high temperatures. I live in Florida, USA and it's hot here most of the year, the last thing I want is to heat my oven to 500°F. Even though most recipes call for that temperature I usually do 450°F instead but I wondered if I could go lower. Very helpful 😊 thanks
I bake mine a little lower. I'll set my temp to about 410 (between 400 & 425f), and it comes out nice.
Gosh I want the steel and glass dome combo! I wish they shipped to USA! Sune, why are you not using this in your recent videos? It is so much fun to watch the oven spring!
i would like to know how long you baked for each temp. ? trying to figure out mine but each temp. change dont know how long i should add to the cooking time, mine no matter what always comes out tacky, i measure the inside temp and it is 100.9 C so it is cooked but tacky, i even lower the hydration but again the same..
Me too, I think the geek is keeping a closely guarded secret. Ha ha.
I always knock at the bottom of the bread when it sounds hollow it is ready to get out of the oven. Use the time only for a rough estimate when to start with the knocking test.
I forgot where I found (or was given) the following reference, but I made it mine now : I consider a bread optimally baked when there is an ochre layer between the brown crust and the crumb. If I am not mistaken, only the 230C bread has it
hell, great content as usual. I like to mentioned that the 190°C looks like baguettes color in my small French village. Or pretty much every where around here.
I just subbed, finally good direction on how to properly prepare a loaf!. Thanks.
Have you tried putting the bread in a cold oven? I used to bake that way when I was afraid of burning my hands inserting the bread in the hot dutch oven. I used to put the bread inside the cold dutch oven and that went into the cold oven then I turned it to 230ºC for 50min covered + 20min uncovered. I got nice oven spring and caramelization too. I haven't baked this way in a while and I think I still prefer starting with a hot oven, but it's an option too.
Hey Sune,
Would you please make an experiment on lower hydration bread comparison. For example; everthing is the same but the hydration which are %65, %70, %75.
Thanks for this great content btw :)
Helpful experiment! I think next you may try oven with and with out fan or with both bottom and top heat vs only bottom heat vs only top heat.
I'm glad to see you've gotten a 4th banneton 😉
Hi Sune. Thank you for your experiment , I love the channel and your work! Two questions or proposals: - experiment on Rye vs. WholeWheat as the Second flour.
- experiment about what the difference it makes to do the „old“ foodgeek style with autolyse & levain vs. new technique with putting everything together at once as the „new“ foddgeek style
Great video. Did you bake them the same time in the oven or what made you decide when they were ready?
Hi! I have a convection oven. Is there any advantage to the fan for baking bread
Thank you for this experiment, making sourdough is a learning experience
I've found the simplest (and least likely to injure yourself) temperature is to preheat oven with dutch oven to 500f, put in dough, cover. Reduce heat to 450, set timer for 40 min, come back to baked bread. None of this removing the lid and lowering the temperature at 20 min. Works beautifully with less fuss and burns.
Have you done those ideal temperatures but uncovered
next time you do an oven spring comparison, can you do them side by side? thanks.
Interesting. I've seen your videos on increasing hydration but I don't think you've done one on the effects of lower hydration.
I love all your experiment videos and this one was no exception, although the results were not surprising to me. I now bake my breads at 475F to 450F thanks to your earlier video on best temps! Thanks, Sune!
Awesome video! I appreciate your experiments so much - thank you!! I need to watch some of your instructional videos beyond the beginner one as I see you have changed things up and I'm ready to advance :)
I noticed the bottom crust is very thick on some of those breads. Do you know what variable to change to make a thinner (but still crispy) crust?
Generally the material you cook the bread on/in will be what gives you a thinner (less hard/thick) outside crust. Any high quality Emile Henry bread baking vessel will actually give you a much thinner crust that's still really crispy in my experience. The absorption of the enamel mixed with clay for some reason tends to have that effect. Though there are several other variables, like baking temperature, time, the amount of steam in the oven, etc. Baking on a baking steel in an open oven will generally give you the hardest crust for example.
What about Pullman loaf sourdough?
A soft one?
Hello there Sune, greetings from New Zealand ..... I just love your Very 'Scientific' approach to making Sourdough Bread .... Really enjoyed this one in particular .... I am busy with a Dark Rye, as we speak .... ( I have saved it to "Link" as Tony's Dark Rye , feel free to give it a go ) ....
There is an 'Experiment' that I would like to see, sure many others would like it too .....
1) Can you please try to 'Autolyze' the dough/flour with Just the Water for an Hr. , adding the Salt and Starter thereafter .... Follow normally to your Method
2) And another.... With the Starter 'dissolved' IN the water and then added to All the Dry Ingredients, including the salt. ...... "
I have tried Both methods and don't seem to see Any difference, ..... Just that the #1 above is less 'trouble' and the 'Inoculation' starts activation Immediately .....
Thanks for All your wonderful vidclip, Very best to You and Yours from Christchurch, NZ
Since you are putting them in the oven when they are cold, you probably need the higher temps to overcome the lower temperature of the dough and get the yeast to burp. What happens when you put room temperature dough into the oven with a lower temperature? It has probably done some of the rise already by that point but would still have some room to go.
This sound like good for experimenting.
Thank you again for another amazing experiment with useful results. And thank you also for the music track. Who choose those musics?
The person who suggested this also mentioned they had a burned bottom on their loaf, you didn’t show the bottom but they don’t look burned from the side. I liked the 450f bread best too.
I wonder how much adjustment for time of baking was made given different temperatures. I think you could get better crumb, by longer baking time with 170C. Just a thought.
Wouldn't it make sense to solve for colouration, and bake longer at lower temp? My oven is garbage and shuts down at high temp, but by leaving bread longer in a closed oven, I get good results and colour, without ending up with dry bread. And it's always come out crispy.
What about the sniff and taste test? How did they compare?
What kind of oven gloves are you using? We have supposed high heat rated good gloves and the heat still gets through them quickly, if we are trying to handle pre-heated cast iron pots.
I assume you leave it in oven longer for lower temperatures? And I assume that unlike high temperature, one does not have to remove lid of dutch oven after 20 minutes
How long do you wait between stretching and folds?
30 minutes 😊
what are the oven times?
What happens in your regular bread recipes if you keep the dough in the refrigerator overnight, or two nights,or three nights ? I would like to mix your double loafs and then save one for two days later for baking when the first loaf is eaten up.
Not sure you can test this atm but cooking it at different altitudes would be interesting. As someone at mile high, i find it hard to figure out how to adjust baking times for my bread.
Thanks for this great tutorial!👍🇩🇪
Hmmm I'm new to making sourdough and starters. But not to eating a sourdough. I loved them when I was in california but in uk not found. So i made it myself. Still experimenting. Now that I've stumbled on your video I must see the other videos 👀😊😊😊😉😉
You answered my question, thank you.
Myself I found that for my regular flower and rye mix 80/20 with 75% hydration what works better is lower temp. I heat up thick baking stone for at least 1h at 250 C. Then add boiled water in tray for steam and drop the temp to 180 C. 10 minutes later I put in the bread in. Result is so much better than doing higher temperature.
Edit: It is actually darker than you showed at 190 C, close to the 210 loaf you show. I guess it is because I do not cover it at all.
@Donald Kasper precisely. For me, the difference is stark, night and day: between a tight crumb and a pretty open crumb!
Doesn't matter if I cover with a pyrex on a granite stone, in a dutch oven, or just my goto aluminium foil dome (couldn't cover batards any other way) on the granite stone. Even if the alum doesn't seal totally at bottom, doesn't matter. Any cover that creates that humidity environment for longer to allow the top to expand and open up will work.
What size proofing basket do u use?
I wish you showed us a side by side comparison, along with your regular taste test for continuity
Was the baking time different for each loaf?
For how long is the bread baked? 🤔
what is the delay from the first one and the last? what effect does the longer proofing time in the last one has? is it negligible?
You should have done a taste test too. I have done some experiments and found that the sour taste improves with low temperatures.
do u ship to Malaysia? If so how much total costs incl. tax and shipping cost. thank you
Watching this and the liquid variant one I was curious if score depth would effect oven spring (apologies if this has been mentioned) 😊
Today I am planning on baking the Tartine basic country bread but to mold them and proof them over night in tin loaf pans... I wonder just how bad an idea this is? So I guess my question is: since my daughter prefers the sourdough taste over sandwich bread( your recipe and I have to say, me and my wife like it a lot)... I am searching the internet to find ways to bake sourdough in tin loaf pans for Easter shape to use in slices... thanks for the great content and sorry for the small novel...
Hi, I have watched your videos about different kneading methods. Since I have pain in my wrists, I have bought a kitchenaid but don’t know if I should let the dough bulk ferment of fold... what are the steps I should take for a good airy crumb?
A suggestion for a future experiment might be to see how brief you can wait between "Stretch & Folds"?
Can the time spent in the fridge change the spring? If each loaf takes 45-60 min to bake the last loaf had 3-4 more hours in the fridge. Is that enough time to alter the oven spring??
THANK YOU. I have been obsessing over the temperature for years. I bake in Nepal where the home ovens only occasionally get to a temperature of 400F, but realistically we bake at 350 to 375F. Thank you for the lower temperature videos. . . . I think I get it now . . . .the higher the hydration the higher the temperature needed to explode all of that water . . . . At lower hydration you can get away with lower temperatures . . . . Would you agree?
Exactly
@Foodgeek. What do you mean by "less flak" with a lower hydration dough @11:05. what is flak? This is an awesome video. Thank you.
Did you preheat oven for 230c temp?
How long does it take to bake ? No one says!
Do you mean the actual bake or from start to finish? 😊
baking temperature was very interesting.
I have a question regarding proving temperature as my oven has this facility but only goes down to 35 degrees Centigrade, is this to high?
A really helpful video. Thank you Sune. My oven is too small to use steam, or even a cover or Pyrex bowl. Can you make good sourdough without using steam?
Hi! Thank you so much for this video!! May I know ur cooking times for the 190dc and 210dc? :))
They were the same as the 230c. 20 minutes with steam, 20 without. Lately I go 25 without though. It just makes the crust more resistant to "anti crisp" :)
@@Foodgeek thank you! Am new to sourdough baking and have baked 3 loaves thus far but have ended up wif a damp interior even after baking for 30min covered and 30min uncovered for 200dc. And letting it cool for 2h. Someone mentioned to bake it even longer but if urs turned out ok mayb it’s not the baking time tats the prob now😬
Out of curiosity, my mom used to bake potatoes with a long Aluminum nail stuck through the middle. Supposedly it helped heat and cook from the inside as well. Would this method help the sourdough rise faster in the oven for a lighter bread?
That is a great experiment with lean breads. Another experiment with enriched breads might be interesting - at the temperatures you are using, I suspect enriched brads would be burnt.
Can you test baking sourdough same day vs overnight vs 2 or 3 days?