Your experiment answers some questions! Thanks for sharing. My guess is that the ruptures are not because of the fact it wasn't shaped because the other loaf would have had them, too. A smaller baking vessel, more tailored to the amount of dough, may help in the unshaped loaves rising upwards. I discovered this by necessity. My smaller dutch oven is in storage so I use a high quality stainless steel stockpot. The advantage is that it doesn't weigh a ton and is the right size for my recipe. I never bake a loaf of more than 500 grams flour weight. People who are alone or are unable to lift heavy cast iron pots find workarounds. Now I now have a perfectly round, evenly-browned loaf that rises to 5 inches with great distribution and type of alveoli of the crumb. If dough can't spread vertically, it will spread horizontally. I rarely shape because I don't like having the flour mess from it though I agree that it is fun to do. With warmer weather coming, I can do the shaping outside! Through trial and error I just realized that the real factor is having the right sized baking dish.
This is some great insight and awesome tips! I always love to hear about what methods others take. I appreciate you sharing! One thing I did notice on rewatching my own video is that on loaf two when I dump it from the banneton you can see a small crack on the edge of the dough. I was kind of curious if because I didn’t shape it and didn’t form a tight tension in the outer surface it had more freedom to crack, but you may be on to something too. Thanks for watching!
Great experiment. I too enjoy dough shaping. To me the results are so apparent I will be sticking to shaping my loaves. The classic look is so beautiful.
For the bulk fermented dough at 1:17 that got divided into 3; did it get any treatment such as stretch and fold/or coil fold/knead/slap and fold during the bulk ferment stage to build up some gluten strength? Wonder if more dough handling during the bulk fermentation stage can compensate for lack of shaping after bulk fermentation
That’s really kind of you! I appreciate that. Thanks a lot Troy! I’m definitely going to try a Detroit style pizza this after seeing your post. That looked 🔥🔥🔥
Great experiment and thanks for sharing. I like the size of each loaf. How much flour was used divided by 3? I only bake one loaf and I’m guessing 600g flour per loaf. I see it’s 70% hydration. I do 75%. TIA, Rob
Thank you Rob! My standard loaves are 600g flour, 400g water, 12g salt, 120g starter. These are a little bigger at ~1.3kg each, 700g flour, 475g water, 14g salt, 140g starter. Around ~70% hydration. A mix of king Arthur’s bread flour and Whole White Wheat.
I think your experiment was amazing. Other than the height of the loaves the crumb looked nearly the same. All seemed yummy looking to me. I have baking sourdough about a couple of years. I am still learning it seems but I joined your channel today. Hoping to learn more. Thanks for sharing the outcome.
Good question - I only took all three out for a very quick segment on what they look like after the cold proof. After that they went right back in the fridge until it was their bake time. Thanks for watching!
@@baked-with-bry okay then the flattening wasn’t from that. If you over proof it does that spreading out thing and I was told not to score it if over proved to build more force for the spring and let it crack from the pressure on its own. Just noodling why yours kept flattening out. I’m just a curious amateur baker. 🧑🏻🍳
Hard to say, it’s a good thought. When I rewatch my video when I am dumping out my loaves I noticed some cracks along the edges of the 2nd and 3rd loaf where on the first loaf where I shaped it those did not exist and I have not seen that before since I always shape my loaves. My thought is that shaping it allowed the tight surface tension to form which prevented the crack, but it’s tough to say. Those cracks along the edge could definitely cause it to flatten out. For over proofing and under proofing a big indicator of that is the inside/crumb of the bread.
For the past couple of years, I have been baking sourdough bread without shaping the dough before going into the banneton. I prefer this method of baking because my breads are better, and I suspect the reason is that there is less handling of the dough. My technique is to simply roll the dough into the banneton after the final stretch and fold directly from my stainless steel bowl. The dough never touches your work table, and you don’t need to oil the bowl. By turning the bowl 180 degrees, the dough releases itself easily from the bowl right into the banneton which has been coated with rice flour. I'd be happy to share photos.
Thank you for sharing your insight on this. That is really interesting. Do you get consistent results each time? To me, that is the main benefit of shaping is the consistency, as I like to give away my bread or sometimes sell it at a market. I like how with shaping they always look the same. However, for my own personal use I may try your method as an experiment to see what that is like.
I struggle with shaping and have given up on using an oval banneton. My loaves sometimes spread out as far as they can; they usually have sufficient height or better (my loaves are smaller than yours so 4 to 4.5 inches). No matter what I do, I can't get the batard into a decent oval shape; it bulges in the banneton. I have no problerms with boules.
I hear you, it can be tricky, especially the higher hydration you go. I ended up making my own method I call the “double triangle” which I find to be a lot easier. I have a video on it if you ever feel up to trying oval again. Boules are great too though, can’t go wrong either way!
My question is why we bulk ferment if we are only making and baking one loaf. My understanding of bulk ferment is that we make a dough for multiple loaves then split them for the second ferment. If only making and baking one loaf what is the point of bulk ferment since there is no bulk?
Thanks for watching! It can be a bit confusing of a term, as it seems to imply there needs to be a "bulk" or "large" amount of dough. What its really referring to is the primary fermentation phase where the entire dough undergoes fermentation and processes such as gluten development, gas production, acid development, and flavor development. That begins the moment you finish mixing up until you shape (or not) and proof the dough. Even if you are just making one loaf, all these processes occur during "bulk fermentation". I think its just kind of one of those terms that has stuck over the years from large scale baking, and may not always make sense for home baking where you are just making one loaf, a more accurate term would just be "fermentation" but I think people just like to use a consistent term so everyone is on the same page.
People on the sourdough subreddit oughta watch this video, cause theyre absolutely obsessed with shaping and telling everybody to preshape and shape. Any person posts a bread where clearly something went really wrong (overfermented, way too much water, weak flour, etc) and everybody is like: you need to shape properly!
Yeah, I was a little shocked by the experiment, honestly. I guess my takeaway is that a lot of problems can be traced back to bulk fermentation and/or folding. Thanks for watching!
My dough keeps sticking to my proofing basket even after I flour it etc. last time it happened I had a 75% hydration so it wasn’t super sticky. I didn’t put it in the fridge, what him doing wrong?
Hey! Yeah, you can get them on Amazon. Great for BBQ and all sorts of other things, hahaha! www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F2L42SS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Thanks for watching!
I really liked watching your experiment. It also surprised me somewhat. Very inspiring and beautiful bread. Your shaped loaf is beautiful, but they are all very lovely and shareable.❤
I’m to new at bread making to have any options all three look fantastic. My only thought is if you would have cut the two loafs on top with three deep cuts would that have stopped the splits. This Saturday I will be making my first loaf, wish me luck.
I have a question. Did the unshaped loaves not sit/rest longer than the shaped one? I wonder if you reversed the order if you would see any difference. Having them rest longer would make some difference, wouldn't it? Love that woodworking aprong, by the way. (At least it looks just like our shop aprons.) Great idea, though!
Hey, good question! The morning after the cold proof I brought all three loaves out of the fridge for the quick video shot, but after that they went back into the fridge until it was time to bake. So about 25 minutes extra time in the fridge for each!
Imperfect bread still Tastes amazing so as we keep working to make that perfect loaf I’m sure our “mistakes” will always find someone to appreciate them
Hey, thanks for watching! Yes, here is my full recipe video that goes over my entire process start to finish. ruclips.net/video/BdwEyIbpnHE/видео.html but if you just want my formula here it is: 600g flour (mix of bread flour and whole wheat) 400g water 12g salt 120g regular starter
The above is my standard amount. The loaves in these videos are a little bigger, but follow the same formula for ~70% hydration. 700g flour, 475g water, 14g salt, 140g starter.
I like this content so I subscribe. I try to bake bread using only chopsticks. The idea is to no touching the flour or the dough at all. I use a scoop and the milk powder container to contain my flour or take it out
That is super cool, and something I have never even thought of. Did it take you a long time to learn that skill? That seems like it would be super hard to do! Thanks for watching
It happens, haha! And yeah, absolutely, the best part about baking is even when you screw up it still tastes great (most of the time 😊). Thanks for watching!
I’m sure your bread is great! Any bread that is made by hand is something to be proud of Steve! But my process is no secret, I have a full video on everything I do on my channel if you’re interested in that. Thanks for watching and for the compliment!
@@baked-with-bry Thanks, I just watched. You do two things differently 1. I proof the loaf after stretch & fold, then shape then into the fridge. 2. I pull the bread out of the fridge while the oven is heating up. I'll give your way a go. Thanks.
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Your experiment answers some questions! Thanks for sharing.
My guess is that the ruptures are not because of the fact it wasn't shaped because the other loaf would have had them, too.
A smaller baking vessel, more tailored to the amount of dough, may help in the unshaped loaves rising upwards. I discovered this by necessity. My smaller dutch oven is in storage so I use a high quality stainless steel stockpot. The advantage is that it doesn't weigh a ton and is the right size for my recipe. I never bake a loaf of more than 500 grams flour weight. People who are alone or are unable to lift heavy cast iron pots find workarounds. Now I now have a perfectly round, evenly-browned loaf that rises to 5 inches with great distribution and type of alveoli of the crumb. If dough can't spread vertically, it will spread horizontally.
I rarely shape because I don't like having the flour mess from it though I agree that it is fun to do. With warmer weather coming, I can do the shaping outside! Through trial and error I just realized that the real factor is having the right sized baking dish.
This is some great insight and awesome tips! I always love to hear about what methods others take. I appreciate you sharing! One thing I did notice on rewatching my own video is that on loaf two when I dump it from the banneton you can see a small crack on the edge of the dough. I was kind of curious if because I didn’t shape it and didn’t form a tight tension in the outer surface it had more freedom to crack, but you may be on to something too. Thanks for watching!
What a cool experiment!! Thanks for sharing. I’m enjoying watching these
Hey, thanks a lot Lindsey! I appreciate that! This was a lot of fun to do and I have a some more experiments coming out soon! Thanks for watching!
Great experiment. I too enjoy dough shaping. To me the results are so apparent I will be sticking to shaping my loaves. The classic look is so beautiful.
Thanks for watching, and agreed! I love the consistency I get when I shape my loaves so I’m definitely sticking with that!
Yes, when comparing the 1st to 3rd loaf, the shaped loaf was a definite winner. If comparing the first 2 loaves, I may have been tempted to not shape.
For the bulk fermented dough at 1:17 that got divided into 3; did it get any treatment such as stretch and fold/or coil fold/knead/slap and fold during the bulk ferment stage to build up some gluten strength? Wonder if more dough handling during the bulk fermentation stage can compensate for lack of shaping after bulk fermentation
Great question and observation, ddr80! This batch of dough got four separate coil fold sessions during bulk fermentation!
Had to stop by after the very nice comment you left on my Detroit style pizza post on Reddit. Great channel! Subbed. 💥
That’s really kind of you! I appreciate that. Thanks a lot Troy! I’m definitely going to try a Detroit style pizza this after seeing your post. That looked 🔥🔥🔥
Great video! I just started with sourdough so this was very interesting to watch.
Thanks for watching! How’s your sourdough journey going so far?
Whoa the cracks surprised me! This is great to know. I’ve always been curious!
Me too! Thanks so much for watching! 😁
Super smart experiment thank you
I really appreciate that, thanks for watching Cari!
Great experiment and thanks for sharing. I like the size of each loaf. How much flour was used divided by 3? I only bake one loaf and I’m guessing 600g flour per loaf. I see it’s 70% hydration. I do 75%. TIA, Rob
Thank you Rob! My standard loaves are 600g flour, 400g water, 12g salt, 120g starter. These are a little bigger at ~1.3kg each, 700g flour, 475g water, 14g salt, 140g starter. Around ~70% hydration. A mix of king Arthur’s bread flour and Whole White Wheat.
super interesting !
Thanks for watching Lorenzo
love the "simple experiment" style videos!
Really happy to hear that. Thank you for watching, Andrew! More to come.
I think your experiment was amazing. Other than the height of the loaves the crumb looked nearly the same. All seemed yummy looking to me. I have baking sourdough about a couple of years. I am still learning it seems but I joined your channel today. Hoping to learn more. Thanks for sharing the outcome.
I’m really glad to hear that. I really appreciate it! Thanks so much for watching!!!
So did you keep them in the fridge in between the bake of each one or did the 2 & 3 sit at room temperature while one baked and so on?
Good question - I only took all three out for a very quick segment on what they look like after the cold proof. After that they went right back in the fridge until it was their bake time. Thanks for watching!
@@baked-with-bry okay then the flattening wasn’t from that. If you over proof it does that spreading out thing and I was told not to score it if over proved to build more force for the spring and let it crack from the pressure on its own. Just noodling why yours kept flattening out. I’m just a curious amateur baker. 🧑🏻🍳
Hard to say, it’s a good thought. When I rewatch my video when I am dumping out my loaves I noticed some cracks along the edges of the 2nd and 3rd loaf where on the first loaf where I shaped it those did not exist and I have not seen that before since I always shape my loaves. My thought is that shaping it allowed the tight surface tension to form which prevented the crack, but it’s tough to say. Those cracks along the edge could definitely cause it to flatten out. For over proofing and under proofing a big indicator of that is the inside/crumb of the bread.
For the past couple of years, I have been baking sourdough bread without shaping the dough before going into the banneton. I prefer this method of baking because my breads are better, and I suspect the reason is that there is less handling of the dough. My technique is to simply roll the dough into the banneton after the final stretch and fold directly from my stainless steel bowl. The dough never touches your work table, and you don’t need to oil the bowl.
By turning the bowl 180 degrees, the dough releases itself easily from the bowl right into the banneton which has been coated with rice flour. I'd be happy to share photos.
Thank you for sharing your insight on this. That is really interesting. Do you get consistent results each time? To me, that is the main benefit of shaping is the consistency, as I like to give away my bread or sometimes sell it at a market. I like how with shaping they always look the same. However, for my own personal use I may try your method as an experiment to see what that is like.
@@baked-with-bry my results are consistently great without shaping. I've been working on a video which I will share. Photos are available at any time.
I struggle with shaping and have given up on using an oval banneton. My loaves sometimes spread out as far as they can; they usually have sufficient height or better (my loaves are smaller than yours so 4 to 4.5 inches). No matter what I do, I can't get the batard into a decent oval shape; it bulges in the banneton. I have no problerms with boules.
I hear you, it can be tricky, especially the higher hydration you go. I ended up making my own method I call the “double triangle” which I find to be a lot easier. I have a video on it if you ever feel up to trying oval again. Boules are great too though, can’t go wrong either way!
My question is why we bulk ferment if we are only making and baking one loaf. My understanding of bulk ferment is that we make a dough for multiple loaves then split them for the second ferment. If only making and baking one loaf what is the point of bulk ferment since there is no bulk?
Thanks for watching! It can be a bit confusing of a term, as it seems to imply there needs to be a "bulk" or "large" amount of dough. What its really referring to is the primary fermentation phase where the entire dough undergoes fermentation and processes such as gluten development, gas production, acid development, and flavor development. That begins the moment you finish mixing up until you shape (or not) and proof the dough. Even if you are just making one loaf, all these processes occur during "bulk fermentation". I think its just kind of one of those terms that has stuck over the years from large scale baking, and may not always make sense for home baking where you are just making one loaf, a more accurate term would just be "fermentation" but I think people just like to use a consistent term so everyone is on the same page.
People on the sourdough subreddit oughta watch this video, cause theyre absolutely obsessed with shaping and telling everybody to preshape and shape.
Any person posts a bread where clearly something went really wrong (overfermented, way too much water, weak flour, etc) and everybody is like: you need to shape properly!
Yeah, I was a little shocked by the experiment, honestly. I guess my takeaway is that a lot of problems can be traced back to bulk fermentation and/or folding. Thanks for watching!
My dough keeps sticking to my proofing basket even after I flour it etc. last time it happened I had a 75% hydration so it wasn’t super sticky. I didn’t put it in the fridge, what him doing wrong?
I would recommend using white rice flour, it doesn’t absorb into the dough like regular flour does which makes it ideal for proofing baskets!
may i ask where you got your apron? i absolutely love it and want one!!
Hey! Yeah, you can get them on Amazon. Great for BBQ and all sorts of other things, hahaha! www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F2L42SS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Thanks for watching!
I really liked watching your experiment. It also surprised me somewhat. Very inspiring and beautiful bread. Your shaped loaf is beautiful, but they are all very lovely and shareable.❤
Thanks a lot @catbootsy!
I’m to new at bread making to have any options all three look fantastic. My only thought is if you would have cut the two loafs on top with three deep cuts would that have stopped the splits. This Saturday I will be making my first loaf, wish me luck.
That’s actually a great suggestion. I’m going to try that sometime. Good luck on your first loaf! You got this! I believe in you! 😁
I have a question. Did the unshaped loaves not sit/rest longer than the shaped one? I wonder if you reversed the order if you would see any difference. Having them rest longer would make some difference, wouldn't it?
Love that woodworking aprong, by the way. (At least it looks just like our shop aprons.) Great idea, though!
Hey, good question! The morning after the cold proof I brought all three loaves out of the fridge for the quick video shot, but after that they went back into the fridge until it was time to bake. So about 25 minutes extra time in the fridge for each!
Imperfect bread still
Tastes amazing so as we keep working to make that perfect loaf I’m sure our “mistakes” will always find someone to appreciate them
You are absolutely right! Any bread that you make at home is something to be proud of and will most definitely taste great! 👍
How many grams is the dough per loaf?
These are pretty big, ~1.3kg each at ~70% hydration. A mix of King Arthur’s bread flour and whole white wheat.
@@baked-with-bry thanks, they look good
Do you have a link for the recipe you use?
Hey, thanks for watching! Yes, here is my full recipe video that goes over my entire process start to finish. ruclips.net/video/BdwEyIbpnHE/видео.html but if you just want my formula here it is:
600g flour (mix of bread flour and whole wheat)
400g water
12g salt
120g regular starter
@@baked-with-bry yes! The favorite is what I was looking for, I think. Is that the recipe you used in this video? The dough looks so robust
The above is my standard amount. The loaves in these videos are a little bigger, but follow the same formula for ~70% hydration. 700g flour, 475g water, 14g salt, 140g starter.
@@baked-with-bry perfect, thank you! Just stumbled across your channel and I'm enjoying it. Good stuff!
Thanks, I really appreciate that!
thanks for posting i would definitely! eat all 3 haha
Hahaha, I hear you on that, Kayla! I did slice two of them up to put in the freezer for later! :)
simple save time good bread instead of store bought bread, good enough for me! I'm assuming it still taste good so hey thats all i need.
Absolutely! You are spot on. Any home bread is better than store bought and it definitely tastes great! Thanks for watching BigBowl9
Hi, you wouldn’t know how to do a gluten free sourdough by any chance? I miss my sourdough bread so much.
Sorry, friend. I’m afraid I do not!
@@baked-with-bry no worries, I’ll keep on the lookout.
I like this content so I subscribe. I try to bake bread using only chopsticks. The idea is to no touching the flour or the dough at all. I use a scoop and the milk powder container to contain my flour or take it out
That is super cool, and something I have never even thought of. Did it take you a long time to learn that skill? That seems like it would be super hard to do! Thanks for watching
Ok so I have to admit, I’ve done this when the day got away from me, with similar results. Still edible, tho.
It happens, haha! And yeah, absolutely, the best part about baking is even when you screw up it still tastes great (most of the time 😊). Thanks for watching!
INSANE IN THE MEMBRANE
Exactly!!!
I think my shaped loaves don't come out as good as yours lol.
I’m sure your bread is great! Any bread that is made by hand is something to be proud of Steve! But my process is no secret, I have a full video on everything I do on my channel if you’re interested in that. Thanks for watching and for the compliment!
@@baked-with-bry Thanks, I just watched. You do two things differently 1. I proof the loaf after stretch & fold, then shape then into the fridge. 2. I pull the bread out of the fridge while the oven is heating up. I'll give your way a go. Thanks.
Could you possibly fit any more jump cuts in the video? I think you only had about a thousand
Haha, I got a little crazy with it. I’ll do better in my next video. Thanks for watching!
I would love to see an inclusion episode.
Great idea, I will work on one!
What’s inclusion in terms of bread? I’m in Australia and haven’t heard that expression regarding bread making.
Inclusions is the term for adding additional ingredients to the dough such as cranberries, walnuts, garlic, rosemary, chocolate, etc
@@baked-with-bry ah-ha , thanks.👍🏼