Great vid. We have an Ideal Vogue Max 18 system boiler with vented dual zone heating (x3 storey) I'd like an Open Therm compatible thermostat - Not clear which would work with my boiler? Any suggestions?!
I would definitely look into Ideal branded thermostats to get the most from your ideal boiler. If not the Nest is the best bet for smart features just double check it works with your boiler
Yeah the Nest has built in weather compensation, it uses local weather stations online to determine the current predicted weather. Just double check it complies with your boiler
There are points where i will have to disagree with you, having been fitting smart home setups and smart thermostats in a range of properties for a long time. I have learnt allot and thought i would share and may make a good place to revisit some topics or points. 1. Hive are terrible stats, they are good if you want just a system with remote controls and maybe have more heating tuning with more schedules. Theres nothing else more to say. A very basic stat with little future possibilities. 2. Tado's have a far superior trv which can call for heat so if you have a certain room that doesnt retain heat as well it can trigger the heating to come on and take the chill out of said room, so that is perfect for a babies room. Yes expensive trvs but with a 4 pack you can cover most bedrooms in a standard uk house. Tado with opentherm is abit of a can of worms but once understood is amazing. The UK wired is the only version that supports opentherm as it was removed from the wireless as they thought it wasn't diy friendly. The wired is a pain as many houses do not have the correct amount of wires from the wiring center to wire in opentherm so the wireless is the way to go. The UK wireless unit is £100 with no opentherm, but you can buy the euro wireless version for about £200 which has opentherm. 3. The nest 3rd gen learning is amazing really supple on the heat like the tado and not too agressive which keeps flow temps down and better condensing. But you mention the E version is not worth it. This i have to disagree with, it is centered at a diy install which is soo easy, even if you have very basic knowledge of wiring or just look up a 5 minute video on youtube. The E is also opentherm ready and learns just like the 3rd gen, it also has a seperate temp sensor for the control unit and the hub which they say adds to accuracy. Very much worth it, but depends heavily on whos fitting it and the desired outcome. 4. Trvs in general, if you have a better insulated house with proper cavity walls and a condensing boiler. Shutting off radiators can actually impact efficiency of the heating system, so best practice would be if you want trvs is to get them for bedrooms and have them limit the heat down to a lower temp overnight for more comfortable sleep. If you have a very uninsulated house with lots of temp variance then they can be used to try and get a more even distribution of heat within the property. Overall a good video and some valid points, but the whole smart heating is still in its infancy and the education of the consumer is low and i consider offering a smart thermostat without any ebus or opentherm isnt smart and just a wireless thermostat and is why i do not rate the hive one bit. It offers the end consumer nothing to gain and though smart advertising and bad recommendations has come to be the powerhouse it is, but in reality belongs in the bin. I got into everything smart though smart home installs and mini home servers to automate everything within the home and educated myself in regards to stats. There are pitfalls with every brand and there unfortunately isn't a one stop shop for home heating equipment and i feel nest is slowing the development which is a pitty and tado are apparently prepping for a big relaunch of a new home thermostat which does everything. So the nest few years will be interesting in regards to smart thermostats
Have you seen the Hive TRV's can now call for heat too like the tados? Really interesting few points there, i think Hive is definitely more of a people pleaser than a tool, i agree with you where you say its more through smart advertising, but sometimes thats all people want - a simple solution and sadly most people don't care about modulating, efficiency, they just want whatever is put in front of their eyes and whatever has the shiniest face. Would you agree the Hive is the easiest to install and for the most basic diyer, the go to solution?
@iheat the hive is super simple and now the nest e which is literally 2 wires. So both are the go to easy diy installs. One thing with the Nest e though (which I experienced today) is if you back out of the setup before setting up the heatlink, or delete the stat from the nest app before the heatlink is registered. It bricks the device and you need to speak to nest to have them send you a factory reset file to then inject onto the nest via a pc. I was upgrading the pre installed system to opentherm and when I was updating the stat to opentherm. The customer removed the stat from the app, thinking a factory reset was needed to change the protocol, so on reinstalling the stat via app thought is was part way though a install (as I was updating the protocol at the time) and you can't get to the system settings on the nest and just loops itself. It's crazy that the nest doesn't have a factory reset button on the back of the device. So apart from that the nest e is amazing diy, as long as you prep and follow the install steps to a tee, which is literally two wires, but again when updating protocols there is no clear information and risks involved if you don't follow the steps etc. But it does offer a future option of modulating controls. Even with this I would still recommend the the nest for any newer house with cavity and now you mentioned the hive has call for heat trvs I may recommend it for some older build properties.
Great video. I have a vaillent system boiler with 2 heating zones which has a unitherm setting but it is currently disabled. Do you know with a Nest stat will it just start modulating or will the installer need to adjust boiler setting and the wiring?
Who ever fits the stat will need to wire the boiler to opentherm, some boilers will have a setting you will need to change to opentherm but most don't like a ideal boiler. It is not worth fitting a nest if you have no intension for opentherm. In regards to the trvs, if you go for a nest I recommend the aqara trvs. These are good, not that expensive and they have the option to add a external temp sensor (which are cheap) which will improve the accuracy of the trv itself. If you were not going for a nest I would recommend a tado, better than a hive far better trvs that are part of the ecosystem (which can call for heat like a stat). By calling for heat they can add heat if let's say a baby's room drops below a desired temp, where others just limit temp. In short hive is trash, tado is good but the UK version doesn't have opentherm on the wireless model and nest is really good and ignore what he says about the nest E, it's point is that it's easy to fit even for a rookie and supports opentherm like the learning stat, it just looks abit cheaper but solid bit of kit. It has some shortcomings if you have a heat system that has a hot water tank but if yours is a combi boiler it's a easy way to get a new stat fitted
Yes as mentioned above it will all be down to how it is wired originally, be best getting in touch with whoever installed the system to see if they'd fit it for you with the wiring done correctly.
Can you confirm that Next opentherm will work on systems with 2 heating zones and hot water tank? Ie.. Will the boiler modulation be active for whichever part of the system is calling for heat?
@craigywild sort answer no, you can add another stat but it will only work as a on/off. So in all properties with zones I personally deactivate the zone valves and lock them open and run it as a complete system and if the customer wants a lower temp within bedrooms (which are usually the zones) they can lower it via the trv's. Doing it like this makes the system more efficient and simplified with less failure points. An you make the trvs your zone valves and keep the benefits of a modulating system throughout the property, its been proven having cold zones ruins efficiency and is better to keep at least some heat circulation within the non active zones to stop thermal bleed into the warmer areas of the property hence saving money
Have done a comparison of the Mini vs full size, and felt the Mini had more chance at a fairer battle! Mini is a great option and does everything the full size can just within the app
I try and use the dedicated manufacturers controls to get the load comp etc. I use a lot of Vaillant VSmart rather than the nest/hive 'on-off'controls. 👍
A great comparison video!! This has definitely helped me make my decision.
Glad I could help! Thank you for the support
Great vid. We have an Ideal Vogue Max 18 system boiler with vented dual zone heating (x3 storey) I'd like an Open Therm compatible thermostat - Not clear which would work with my boiler?
Any suggestions?!
I would definitely look into Ideal branded thermostats to get the most from your ideal boiler. If not the Nest is the best bet for smart features just double check it works with your boiler
Im told Nest load compensation not compatible with type of system nest does have its own built in weather compensation?
Yeah the Nest has built in weather compensation, it uses local weather stations online to determine the current predicted weather. Just double check it complies with your boiler
There are points where i will have to disagree with you, having been fitting smart home setups and smart thermostats in a range of properties for a long time. I have learnt allot and thought i would share and may make a good place to revisit some topics or points.
1. Hive are terrible stats, they are good if you want just a system with remote controls and maybe have more heating tuning with more schedules. Theres nothing else more to say. A very basic stat with little future possibilities.
2. Tado's have a far superior trv which can call for heat so if you have a certain room that doesnt retain heat as well it can trigger the heating to come on and take the chill out of said room, so that is perfect for a babies room. Yes expensive trvs but with a 4 pack you can cover most bedrooms in a standard uk house. Tado with opentherm is abit of a can of worms but once understood is amazing. The UK wired is the only version that supports opentherm as it was removed from the wireless as they thought it wasn't diy friendly. The wired is a pain as many houses do not have the correct amount of wires from the wiring center to wire in opentherm so the wireless is the way to go. The UK wireless unit is £100 with no opentherm, but you can buy the euro wireless version for about £200 which has opentherm.
3. The nest 3rd gen learning is amazing really supple on the heat like the tado and not too agressive which keeps flow temps down and better condensing. But you mention the E version is not worth it.
This i have to disagree with, it is centered at a diy install which is soo easy, even if you have very basic knowledge of wiring or just look up a 5 minute video on youtube. The E is also opentherm ready and learns just like the 3rd gen, it also has a seperate temp sensor for the control unit and the hub which they say adds to accuracy. Very much worth it, but depends heavily on whos fitting it and the desired outcome.
4. Trvs in general, if you have a better insulated house with proper cavity walls and a condensing boiler. Shutting off radiators can actually impact efficiency of the heating system, so best practice would be if you want trvs is to get them for bedrooms and have them limit the heat down to a lower temp overnight for more comfortable sleep.
If you have a very uninsulated house with lots of temp variance then they can be used to try and get a more even distribution of heat within the property.
Overall a good video and some valid points, but the whole smart heating is still in its infancy and the education of the consumer is low and i consider offering a smart thermostat without any ebus or opentherm isnt smart and just a wireless thermostat and is why i do not rate the hive one bit. It offers the end consumer nothing to gain and though smart advertising and bad recommendations has come to be the powerhouse it is, but in reality belongs in the bin.
I got into everything smart though smart home installs and mini home servers to automate everything within the home and educated myself in regards to stats. There are pitfalls with every brand and there unfortunately isn't a one stop shop for home heating equipment and i feel nest is slowing the development which is a pitty and tado are apparently prepping for a big relaunch of a new home thermostat which does everything. So the nest few years will be interesting in regards to smart thermostats
Have you seen the Hive TRV's can now call for heat too like the tados? Really interesting few points there, i think Hive is definitely more of a people pleaser than a tool, i agree with you where you say its more through smart advertising, but sometimes thats all people want - a simple solution and sadly most people don't care about modulating, efficiency, they just want whatever is put in front of their eyes and whatever has the shiniest face. Would you agree the Hive is the easiest to install and for the most basic diyer, the go to solution?
@iheat the hive is super simple and now the nest e which is literally 2 wires. So both are the go to easy diy installs.
One thing with the Nest e though (which I experienced today) is if you back out of the setup before setting up the heatlink, or delete the stat from the nest app before the heatlink is registered. It bricks the device and you need to speak to nest to have them send you a factory reset file to then inject onto the nest via a pc.
I was upgrading the pre installed system to opentherm and when I was updating the stat to opentherm. The customer removed the stat from the app, thinking a factory reset was needed to change the protocol, so on reinstalling the stat via app thought is was part way though a install (as I was updating the protocol at the time) and you can't get to the system settings on the nest and just loops itself. It's crazy that the nest doesn't have a factory reset button on the back of the device.
So apart from that the nest e is amazing diy, as long as you prep and follow the install steps to a tee, which is literally two wires, but again when updating protocols there is no clear information and risks involved if you don't follow the steps etc. But it does offer a future option of modulating controls.
Even with this I would still recommend the the nest for any newer house with cavity and now you mentioned the hive has call for heat trvs I may recommend it for some older build properties.
Re the motion sensor, so if my cat walks around the house the heating is on?
Great video. I have a vaillent system boiler with 2 heating zones which has a unitherm setting but it is currently disabled. Do you know with a Nest stat will it just start modulating or will the installer need to adjust boiler setting and the wiring?
Who ever fits the stat will need to wire the boiler to opentherm, some boilers will have a setting you will need to change to opentherm but most don't like a ideal boiler.
It is not worth fitting a nest if you have no intension for opentherm.
In regards to the trvs, if you go for a nest I recommend the aqara trvs. These are good, not that expensive and they have the option to add a external temp sensor (which are cheap) which will improve the accuracy of the trv itself.
If you were not going for a nest I would recommend a tado, better than a hive far better trvs that are part of the ecosystem (which can call for heat like a stat). By calling for heat they can add heat if let's say a baby's room drops below a desired temp, where others just limit temp.
In short hive is trash, tado is good but the UK version doesn't have opentherm on the wireless model and nest is really good and ignore what he says about the nest E, it's point is that it's easy to fit even for a rookie and supports opentherm like the learning stat, it just looks abit cheaper but solid bit of kit.
It has some shortcomings if you have a heat system that has a hot water tank but if yours is a combi boiler it's a easy way to get a new stat fitted
Yes as mentioned above it will all be down to how it is wired originally, be best getting in touch with whoever installed the system to see if they'd fit it for you with the wiring done correctly.
Can you confirm that Next opentherm will work on systems with 2 heating zones and hot water tank? Ie.. Will the boiler modulation be active for whichever part of the system is calling for heat?
@craigywild sort answer no, you can add another stat but it will only work as a on/off. So in all properties with zones I personally deactivate the zone valves and lock them open and run it as a complete system and if the customer wants a lower temp within bedrooms (which are usually the zones) they can lower it via the trv's. Doing it like this makes the system more efficient and simplified with less failure points.
An you make the trvs your zone valves and keep the benefits of a modulating system throughout the property, its been proven having cold zones ruins efficiency and is better to keep at least some heat circulation within the non active zones to stop thermal bleed into the warmer areas of the property hence saving money
@TAGSProle that's another weakness of the Nest then but it makes sense though. Thx
Why compare to the hive mini? Why not the proper one?
Have done a comparison of the Mini vs full size, and felt the Mini had more chance at a fairer battle! Mini is a great option and does everything the full size can just within the app
Neither!
How come! Interested to hear your thoughts
I try and use the dedicated manufacturers controls to get the load comp etc. I use a lot of Vaillant VSmart rather than the nest/hive 'on-off'controls. 👍