Honestly I'm fine with how Frontiers did it since the boost doesn't damage the enemies on contact essentially making it a basic sprint while the Spindash acts similar to how the boost originally did, except it sends you flying off slopes.
@BatMane95 I think having a hitbox is fine, so long as *not every* enemy gets instantly decimated by it (unless its Super Sonic or something like that). I think *having less control* with both consumption and orienting yourself might be a balanced approach.
This video feels like it seriously downplays Shadow Generations. Off the bat, it's not really a spinoff. It's an expansion to Sonic Generations. And secondly, that game easily felt like one of the least automated Boost games out there.
@@yoshihammerbro435 SA2 has a little of it. You do gain speed while rolling down hills, they just didn't make a satisfying way to enter a roll while moving... plus it has SA's issue of the spindash itself just being so damn overtuned that you don't don't see the benefit happening. The standard 3D Camera also just makes it really hard to appreciate the kind of speed you are getting from inclines. And that's going to be a tough nut to crack if they ever do decided to do it.
It goes even further back to Sonic 2 with boost pads being introduced. Quite frankly the only game that *isn't* totally automated for the most part is Sonic 1 lol
My biggest issue with this topic is the whole innovation argument. Getting rid of something isn’t innovation point, blank, period. If we really want sonic games to innovate then Instead of getting rid of the boost they simply need to pull back on its priority in gameplay and simply modify to where it’s not so much a formula but rather a move sonic has. There is a middle ground to be had and we’ve seen it done in various ways. I’m mainly in favor of it being locked behind a speed cap and requiring the player to use the terrain to maintain said speed to keep access to the boost.
Getting rid of the boost actually has a lot of potential for innovation because its existence obviates so many other mechanics. There's very little point to things like the spindash when you have a single button move that takes you to top speed quickly and lets you maintain full control for instance. That's part of why they had to gimp the move so hard in Frontiers and eventually brought in a spindash that was so overtuned that it was basically just the old boost on steroids. They *could* make the resource for boost much harder to come by to compensate, but then you'd still have the issue of having a dedicated button for using it. Getting rid of the move outright to make way for more interesting stuff just seems like the right call in my eyes.
@@deedoubsand that's not even mentioning the level design which necessarily is more restricted when designing around the mechanic. The boost is simply too over centralizing to design a deep movement kit around.
I hate it when people say "this has gotta go" when talking about Sonic. It really just shows ignorance towards the thing their talking about, since the only reason thy say so is because it doesn't appeal to them. While it's fine to have preferences, they should never take precedence over others. The boost is my favourite Sonic gameplay style, I would hate to see it go. While you may want Adventure style gameplay, you gotta remember how you felt when 06 destroyed it's reputation, leading it to be discarded. Why would you want that to happen to the boost fans as well? We almost never gain anything from throwing out what doesn't work. With that in mind, how do we solve this? If we shouldn't throw anything out, what are we going to do with all of it? Well, the answer is simple. Hybrids, like Daviron mentioned himself. Mario has been doing it since he got into 3D. 64 and Odyssey are vastly different, but the way they got there wasn't radical change like classic to Adventure, or Adventure to Boost. It was gradual innovation from ever game. That's why Odyssey has so many movement options, it's been building for 30 years. Sonic should do the same. As for how, I have a few examples. Sonic Rush, Sonic Dream Team, and Sonic Speed Simulator. The first and last actually both have the boost and spindash. But I want to focus on Speed Simulator. You may have heard of it, but that's not necessary. Let me just explain tk you the movement. The physics are like a combination of Classic and Adventure sonic. For the prior, we have badnik bouncing, semi automatic loops, spindash, etc. For the latter, there's the homing attack, spindash jumping, rail grinding, etc. But the boost also comes into play. In this game, you have to both gain, _and_ maintain speed. Like the classics, you can gain a lot of speed by rolling down hills. Like the boost, boosting will give you an immediate burst of speed. With the combination however, you can gain speed by using your environment, and then also maintain thag speed by using the boost and quick reaction time. I highly recommend you try out Sonic Speed Simulator. Not to get into all the gacha mechanic, but because the movement is genuinely genius, and what the mainline games need.
I have a bit of an alternate take on this: Boost works, just not on the *character* of Sonic. It fits perfectly fine on someone like Shadow or Metal Sonic, who I'd love to get their own campaign with the boost formula in the same game as a Sonic that has similar gameplay to that of the Adventure games.
I don't cosign this play style compromise because as the rush games proved, you will not be engaging with the spin dash much if you're gonna have boost. The boost at its core is a souped-up run button. Make it too powerful and you'll have all this speed either coming with the cost of movement or new level design a challenge. Make it too slow and the run button allegations only strengthen, hampering movement unnecessarily. Trying to combine it with something like the spin dash, an option that essentially have the same function but with a necessary amount draw back (stopping you in place) feels pointless. I had a stigma against run buttons in general and I think Shadow Gens open zone proves my point because the movement there is so absurdly boring. Nerfed boost + heavy air drag + boring double jump? not s fan personally
I just think the Boost gameplay is not the go-to gameplay for Sonic in any way. And that's coming from someone whose favorite Sonic game is Sonic Generations.
I really wouldn’t want the new boost formula to be scrapped in favor of trying to make new gameplay mechanics, therefore making a brand new engine all over again. I don’t want another Sonic Lost World. I think perfecting the current boost system even further would be better. Such as adding a proper drift mechanic.
you can disagree but my personal biggest issue with the boost gameplay compared to the adventure style is how linear and kinda un-experimental it is in comparison, on top of how much it relies on reaction-based gameplay in most of the games. it’s fun, don’t get me wrong, but being able to freely move around with razor-sharp and weighty controls, exploring every level for secret items while having that classic experimentation and momentum-based speed is way too good to abandon. the level design was also way more interesting as it was designed around the tight controls and physics, making for super engaging gameplay.
Like most sonic fans, you think linear stages are bad. Linearity is not a bad thing, what matters is level design, and guess what most boost games have good level design. And SA2 is more linear than you think, the speed stages are corridors with extra steps, just like the boost games. Like you, I would like a game more physics based, we got something like that when frontiers added sliders and spindash but it was kinda broken since you could fly across stages Also, since frontiers, the boost isn't really reaction based since it's much slower than in unleashed or gens
@@oeufoplat1079 i don’t think linearity is a bad thing, i just think more flexibility is much better. i will say that SA2’s speed stages are far more linear than SA1’s, but still has the physics, tight controls and experimentation that game had while having great design. i don’t think it’s comparable to the boost games, although the design is still solid in those games. i will also say that shadow gens is an amazing step for the boost gameplay with the great controls, level design and chaos control gimmick. combine that and the adventure-style exploration, movement and physics (also rail-grind balancing i miss that) and boom masterpiece. 👌
@duck___e alright sorry for the assumption. I have a mixed opinion on the adventure rail balance, maybe because my only experience with it was the broken sensitivity of SA2B. And they need a reason to bring it back, boost rails are simple but they work. If we get rail balance it should help us reach faster paths, like if you're fast enough when going up a rail ramp, you can go higher and get to an alternate pathway. Or if an ennemy is running after you, breaking the rail, you can outrun it by keeping a perfect balance
I think I like when Sonic stages have multiple ways of getting past an obstacle based that encourage you to experiment. It makes me feel very cool when I find a new, faster way to get through a section of a level.
I’m not suggesting momentum based gameplay, but I am suggesting that Sonic needs to incorporate more rolling into his gameplay, he’s a hedgehog but he rarely curls into a ball to do anything anymore and it just strikes me as a little odd
There's really no point in rolling if you don't have 'momentum based gameplay' (I kinda dislike that name). Rolling is only fun because of the way it lets you use gravity to your advantage. Plus Sonic does still curl into a ball very frequently. Every time he jumps in fact.
@@hmmmpIt could still work, with how ungodly slow the boost is now we could bring back rolling with boost as a quick way to get back up to speed, heck make the boost like Frontiers and not let it damage enemies and bring back the roll and slide kick for combat options. It's entirely doable
Comment #3 6:49 sometimes it feels like Sonic fans think the only way for this series to respond to failure is by completely altering everything about itself When that hypothetical momentum based Sonic game bombs, would u still want them to expand on it or would u beg for another radical gameplay shift?
Obviously you've got to get it right for it to be worthwhile. I don't see any reason for it to bomb though unless it's just very poorly made. It's not like Sonic Forces bombed and it *was* poorly made.
Just make boost and adventure styled games we don't need one over the other, sega makes classic and boost games currently so just add adventure into the mix too. People need to drop the notion that you can't have both boost and adventure styled games being made, no-one is pointing a gun at your head to pick we can have both
Honestly, why not just combine both? Like classic sonic and Modern in Generations, there can be Momentum style and Boost style. Though I wouldn't recommend doing this because this could work if Sonic is the only character, the fact multiple characters are NOW up on the table, it would mean making the two for EVERY CHARACTER which is a huge workload. I think Frontiers 2 will go the more physics route of Adventure considering Kishimoto has expressed to WANTING to go down it. Let's see what Sonic Team can experiment with now they have a path of what they want to do with Sonic.
I believe we can just compensate both momentum based rolling and the boost gameplay, like a version of how Sonic Frontiers later did with the spin dash and boost
I dont think the boost needs to be completely removed, they just need to fix all the other fundamental problems in regards to flow and momentum. But i wouldnt be complaining if the next game didn't have the boost at all, and we got much wider levels to roll around in. I think the Advance 2 boost mode is a much better compromise anyway.
I'm perfectly fine with the style of control, movement and tangibility the Frontiers/SxS system provides. It almost feels like a jack of all trades. Only thing I really want now is refinements and additions. Adding more legacy moves in Sonic's moveset like Lost World parkour, 06 gems-esque abilities, Unleashed drifting, SA2 bouncing, make Sonic a consistent powerhouse instead of a gimmick-per-game and then forget/underuse type of character.
I feel like we have oversimplified the argument of I don’t believe we just need to toss out the boost. In fact linking boost to automation kind of ignores how the adventure games are automated too. The point on springs also counts toward the adventure games same with the dash pads and the spindash re vamp. Even 06 got rid of rail balancing not the boost The way forward imo is to make a hybrid style that takes what’s good about the boost Fast thrills high speed reactions dynamic camera And add momentum into it all la the advance boost system
I think people have gone so long without being rewarded with the ability to fly over stages in Sonic games that they’re scared of the idea and can’t see the games implementing mechanics that both build towards and work directly with that ability you earned through skill. I should be able to play a 3D platformer with daredevil skating/parkour mechanics and be able to not only skilfully parkour through small areas and explore at a leisurely but stylish pace, but build up enough speed, with precision, great timing, and great reaction time, to fling myself over vast distances and still be able to use my move-set to traverse the Y axis at ludicrous speeds.
I feel like the main fear of doing away with the boost from a sega dev perspective is that from a visual aspect Sonic literally won’t be able to do what he has done before in regards to running long distance at speeds that cause him to destroy anything in front of him. It’s comparable to a fighting game introducing a second super meter, or assist characters in one game, and then taking them out in the next and the fan base believing that the gameplay is slower or characters are weaker as a result. If a momentum based Sonic game were to come out, it would need to be both good to control, and offer interesting spectacle (which frontiers and shadow generations have so we know Sonic team knows Sonic thrives off spectacle)
Whaylt aboit the boost from Sonic Unleashed Wii/PS2? Have it act like a Mario Kart shroom boost, and like the game have it level up with rings. Have it be a risk reward system
IMO the boost doesn’t need to go It’s still fun and it’s not broken not to mention how new gimmicks could add to that concept but I just think proper momentum Alla sonic Gt Rollin Rascal and Spark the electric Jester Could add a lot more
I think it doesnt need to go away entirely. My ideal would be a boost that increases your acceleration (so you don't go top speed instantly) and only helps you hit a soft cap for speed. Using terrain and stage elements are what you'd need to use to push past that soft cap
For me no because I truly believe both momentum base platforming and boost can indeed work with smooth controls which I believe works pretty well with shadow gens but what I did notice one major flaw in shadow gens is that in sonic forces when you stomp on the curve that goes straight down your character will pick up speed, but in shadow gens in sun set hights he doesn’t do that he just sticks on the ground like Spider-Man lol.
The thing about the boost gameplay is that it was designed for going in straight lines very fast. If they want to make the open-zone work they will need to rethink how it works and gradually they are staring to reintroduce more Adventure-esque elements.
The thing with the boost formula is that it would be really difficult to justify leaving it. For one, story reasons. With these new Sonic games, they are extremely focused on continuity, and at this point, the boost is just part of Sonic's canon moveset, like the homing attack and, more recently, the drop dash. They'd have to come up with some story reason to justify why he just lost this ability or why it bacame heavily nerfed. The other reason is the response to Frontiers and Shadow Gens. They have gotten positive reception from both games that they are improving the formula as they go. If they just drop the boost right before the next big game that can fully show what they've learned from Frontiers and Shadow, that wouldn't help them at all. Especially since the last time they did that, Lost World, was widely considered a bad move from fans. I think at this point in time, the only way you'll see the Adventure formula again is in a spin off or some kind of reboot.
I think they should keep the boost, but implement a way bigger focus on momentum, add the tricks from rush back into 3D but also nerfing the amount of boost you can store, and reimplementing the scoring from adventure 2 in certain setpieces (for example, in Shadow's first level, when he's sliding down a building, reaching those rainbow rings would reward a bigger score bonus than the red ones).
I think that's close to figuring out the boost format. What I'd like to see is it being the mid speed sustainable option, kind of like frontiers. Then they could implement a spin dash that was more momentum based, starting at a faster speed but stopping eventually without momentum. Also, final horizons sonic was peak. While you couldn't do a whole game that hard without losing people, I'd like some of that in a sequel. It was the first time in a long time a sonic game was confident enough to give it's players something difficult to do and it was a ton of fun.
I feel like they could combine both. They could make sections where you can't boost and then maybe at the end of those you get a boost style section. Half adventure half boost
My personal opinion (both in what I want to see and what I think is most likely) is that if rolling physics return boost will stay, albeit in a far more restricted manner (like UnWiished) to act as a backup option to patch up mistakes or give yourself even more speed for a skip, basically kinda just what the Spindash was for 2D physics gameplay
Honestly, I think there is a way to incorporate both styles: 1. Obviously adding inertia/momentum: Physics-based platforming. Additionally being able to brake by holding the joystick in the opposing direction just like in classic sonic games. 2. Not by adding spindash, but giving Sonic his ability to roll again. The way this could work is by getting rid of the boost's ability to plow through enemies to make Sonic vulnerable, and the only way to actually get through enemies is to actively roll into them like a bowling ball. That way the player is forced to be careful and enemies become an active threat within stages. 3. The bounce and stomp can be on the same button, but it depends on if you're pressing it or holding it. Pressing the button will give you bounce and holding the button will give you the stomp. Drifting is not really needed if the movement is similar to what we seen in Fronters/Shadow Gens. When it comes to side-stepping, I much prefer (Imo) that Sonic can sort of slide across the floor similar (but not the same) as Shadow in Shadow Gens. Other than that, side-stepping is in the same boat as the drift if the movement is pretty good. Another thing I think that should be added is the ability to still keeping you're inertia/momentum while homing attacking depending on if you press or hold the button (similar to bounce/stomp). Pressing will push you forward while holding will halt you a tiny bit in the air. For character specifics: Sonic is the only one to use homing attack and have both bounce and stomp. Tails can fly and (optional) bounce. Tails spinning his two tails can hit enemies above him. Knuckles can glide/climb walls and drills downward (basically stomp). His glide hits enemies that is in front of him.
I feel like both types have their advantages, and it could work in seperate situations, like for example if there are multiple acts, one could use something similar to adventure or classic where it is more about momentum, and a second where its more open and based around learning how to abuse the instant burst of momentum to do things, like air boosts to jump large gaps, run on water, etc
I like the idea of having the boost be a special state sonic is put into when at high speeds, keeping that ability to plow through everything in your way without making whatever would be brought back from adventure(spin dash, using the environment to build speed) redundant.
@ fair enough, i guess we could just reserve the boost for a special alternate gameplay state, similar to Mach speed, where sonic loses the roll, but has that damaging version of the advance 2 boost mode instead.
I do think there is a world where the boost and momentum type gameplay can be used together, like a hybrid game or at least co-exist individually in different games. Sonic going back to its adventure roots and putting emphasis on 3D platforming with momentum based movement sounds appealing, and a lot fans love that style. But I also think that the boost gameplay has more room to grow and be expanded upon. Shadow Gens proved that there's more to be explored with the boost formula. I would love to see how they innovate it in future games.
@Zerosaber91 I feel that eliminates the purpose of the boost though. It literally just becomes a run button at that point, there's no downside to boosting because you still control just as well as you do without boosting. In Shadow Generations if the boost was removed and Shadow's non-boosting top speed was higher the game would play the exact same because the boost doesn't really add much to the gameplay besides increasing Shadow's speed.
@@kieronix4071 I think it comes down to how the mechanics were handled. Chaos control being a main factor, as it brought a new dynamic to how the stages operate. There was synergy there, just like how the doom powers synergizes with the rest of Shadow's kit. I've played Sonic generations a lot, but I don't think I've had as much fun compared to Shadow Gens! just toying around with CC and figuring out strategies and experimenting with it, was fun as hell.
The boost shouldn't go, but it needs to take a backseat as being the main way of locomotion in Sonic Games since it kills the thrill of building speed and momentum by having a "Go Fast" button. I heard a leak for Sonic Frontiers 2 that they'll bring back momentum-based movement, with the boost being a short burst of speed, but by building momentum through pinball physics, you can go faster than the boost. I think that is the best way to move around in Sonic Games. The boost being a good way to start with speed and pinball physics being the main way to go even faster.
U tripping if u really asking this question. Go play Sonic av 1 and 2 and all the classics if u dont like the boost mechanics, they can even merge the old and the new mechanics but asking about completely taking away boost is moving backwards
"In my opinion, the boost in Sonic Frontiers is the best. It makes you go faster but not invincible. In other games, the boost makes you invincible, which gets boring since it’s just about pressing the button and worrying about jumping over a few barriers. On the other hand, in Sonic Frontiers, you have to stay alert and make sure you don’t hit enemies. That’s the true essence of the boost.
Here's what they can do. Next game (after the "upcoming" Frontiers sequel) can have the Adventure style gameplay. That way, if they choose to, they can alternate, and plan. That's what I hope they do. Alternating and planning their next move.
If they don't want to get rid of it, fine. But I wish that they do something new with this formula, but instead they have been taking away stuff like short-hops, the drift and enemy bouncing, they don't even use the slide in SxSG, why is it even there in the first place? My point here is that I want something new, maybe not get rid of the boost, but add more stuff to it. I would actually love if they made a better version of the wall running in Sonic Frontiers, that was a part I loved from that game, it was so fun climbing and running on walls at high speed, imagine doing that in a game like SxSG, they did it a bit in The Arch act 1, but it wasn't much really.
The slide is definitely a step in the right direction though, considering if we compare Frontiers side-step to Shadow's slide its alot more responsive. I agree they need to bring back old mechanics like drift, short hop and an improvement on air dashing. Even though the drift isn't necessary, it's still gives the player more choices on how to play the game.
@Electrical010 Exactly, enemy bouncing is another mechanic that is mostly useless, but there were still some cool things you could do with it. It is about having the option, giving a bit of freedom to the player. The boost games are very close, you are set to do something, and you have to do it, there is no other way, the only boost game that allowed you to do more than the game asked was Generatios but then even is Sonic Frontiers, an open world game still takes you into linear closed sequences. Shadow Gens is also designed this way, it of wasn't for sphere gliding, I would not love this game because it does not allow me to do more to do more than what is asking me to do.
Sega has been tweaking the boost to allow for more platforming and momentum. I say keep tweaking it. Stop trying to throw out everything that isn't perfect at the first try, that's the reason we got lost world instead of a proper followup to generations
A neat way to made a momentum boost formula is the way that spark the electric jester 3 did It's a momentum game with a move set of boost Has a little boost of mantain the flow in case of lose it and if you want more speed like boost you has to do an input to stop and charge until reach the peak speed All this like a little substitution of boost while you had the momentum gameplay without change all the structure of the sonic game Could be the solution but still with big issues like how to explain the mecanic base game without 5 different tutorial
As I see it, the boost really excels at two things: the spectacle of going insanely fast, and making these high speed obstacle courses which challenge the player's reaction time almost like a rhythm game. Now Unleashed really leaned into both of those things and it remains the most viscerally exciting Sonic game to date. The problem is it's also hard as hell, so later games had to tone it down, but even then it's extremely limiting in terms of how the game can be designed, since everything needs to be built around this one overpowering mechanic. When everything about Sonic in these games is built for running down a linear track at a million miles per hours doing anything else is frustrating, whether it's because you want to do something different but have to fight the controls to do it, or because the game tries to introduce some variety but has to bring you to a screeching halt to accommodate it, as in many of Generations' 2D sections. Come Frontiers and the these issues have been rectified, at the cost of the boost getting nerfed to the weakest its ever been. It also exposes another issue, which is that the depth and fun of the boost gameplay really came from using it to run through levels that are designed to constantly throw obstacles your way. Boosting in the open zone is just not that exciting, which is a problem for an open world game since the genre THRIVES on interesting traversal mechanics, be that Assassin's Creed's parkour, Just Cause's grappling hook and vehicles, Spider-Man's web swinging, Breath of the Wild's climbing and paraglider, or even Death Stranding requiring you to manage you balance to keep your cargo safe on rough terrain. Shadow Generations is the best Sonic game since... possibly Adventure 2, and the boost is pretty much superfluous there. Heck, if anything it benefits from the weaker boost because it gives other interesting mechanics room to breath. They easily could've just dropped the boost and made the current boost speed Shadow's normal running speed and the game would be basically the same. At this point it's just Lost World's run button with a time limit.
Boosting through an open world can be a lot of fun. The issue is that the map is hardly built with any interesting exploration that factors the boost into it.
boost gameplay seems to put a lot of strain on development, and its not hard to see why: sonic moves so absurdly fast, so you have to make the levels HUGE to accommodate him. you also have to make the level design engaging to play through while also not alienating new players. you dont want the levels to be too short, but you also want to have enough levels that the game feels worth full price. with all of that combined, its very easy to understand why we havent had a single boost game that hasnt relied on a different gameplay style and/or a good amount of 2d and slow platforming and for the slow platforming, that is easily the weakest part of the boost formula for a few reasons: 1. it doesnt mesh well at all with the flow of the reaction based gameplay boost is good at. theres SO much stopping and waiting for moving platforms and such, and its just not fun. i think this is why 2d gets so much hate, because most of the slow parts of boost games are 2d. its less the dimension and more the level design itself. you dont see a lot of complaints about games like the rush series, or the 2d parts of unleashed, because they dont have nearly as much pacebreaking level design 2. the physics are AWFUL. yes its gotten better with frontiers and shadow gens, but its still not very good for a platformer. i play mostly platformers and id say im pretty good at them, and one of the most important parts of any platformer is the physics, especially jump physics. most games will take you a bit to get accustomed to the controls, but at a certain point it becomes second nature and youll be very confident with most of your jumps. that just never happened with me in any boost game, especially when playing in 3d. i loved the towers in frontiers and its dlc (despite the difficulty), but you have to admit it does rely quite a bit on having objects and enemies that you can use the homing attack on so you dont have to make as many precise landings. in contrast, adventure 1 and 2 and the classic games have incredible and very precise controls in my opinion. ofc it can take getting used to and theyre not always perfect, but theyre much better suited for precise platforming than any boost game also, id argue that the boost formula is actually LESS friendly to newcomers than the classic and adventure games. at least when it comes to the boost games that have that engaging, nonstop quick reaction time gameplay with boost games, youre frequently discouraged or outright prevented from moving at your own pace. sometimes its having rows of enemies that you have to boost through, sometimes its water you have to boost to stay on top of, sometimes its grind rails that keep you moving, sometimes its none of those things but the game automates your running. in my opinion, this can make it a lot more difficult and frustrating to practice and learn a level, because youre constantly running into things or dying because youre just going too fast to react to stuff. unleashed is a particularly bad example of this because of how blisteringly fast and difficult it is. now take this frustration and imagine it from the perspective of someone entirely new to sonic, who isnt used to having to rely on quick reaction timing, and who isnt familiar with the types of level design sonic games have with classic and adventure games, while there are some segments where you cant stop your movement, theyre much less frequent and tend to not have much that can hurt you. you can go at your own pace and learn the level layout on your own terms, so you can go faster at the points where you know whats coming up ahead, and just keep practicing to perfection i dont think its necessary to have a total 1:1 return to the adventure formula, but it is important to identify what does and doesnt work, and what is or isnt sustainable in the long run. i think at the very least, sonics gotta slow down. shadow gens being slower than base gens is definitely a step in the right direction. i also think in the future they should probably be more direct with communicating how new players should approach the level design i.e. PLS STOP RUSHING IF U DONT KNOW WHAT UR DOING.....
also to clarify, when i talk about physics i mean the basic movement physics that any video game needs, not the type of momentum and gravity based physics many sonic games have. dont get me wrong, i would LOVE for them to encorporate more momentum based gameplay, but i dont think its as strictly necessary as other gameplay elements. sonic at the absolute minimum has to be comfortable and satisfying to control, and not have to rely so hard on a double jump for precision platforming (p.s. if you love the momentum based platforming of the adventure games PLEASE play glyph.... its going to feel a lot slower at first but its extremely rewarding to master the controls and imo has a much higher skill ceiling than sonic games. its an amazing hidden gem)
I have no clue what you mean when you say these games can outright prohibit you from playing at your own pace. Like a game like SxSG you can literally just tip toe your way through levels at a snail’s pace, if you wanted to. It’s not interesting gameplay, but you can. Also, telling people that the Adventure games are more user friendly than the boost games just seems outright wrong. Like in any capacity. Maybe for a game like Unleashed, but most boost games are as simple as they get. Adventure games hardly even explain the mechanics on how they even function.
I love the boost. I would kill to see 3d momentum based open worlds where you can reach insane speeds with almost no speed cap using the power of physics, but keep the boost as a little extra oomph if you wanna go even faster but make it more optional than required
It’s not about boosting itself, it’s about the stagnant physics and level design concepts. Even as far back as Sonic Adventure, physics based level design was abandoned as a concept for 3D Sonic level design. Keep the boost and just make a game with no 2D, no dash panels, no automation on loops, and manual balancing on grind rails. I promise that at that point, you’d be making a completely different game than any other Sonic game, boost or no boost.
I think if Sonic Team makes the games more like Shadow Gens and Frontiers, where you don't really need to use it but it adds a lot to the experience, than I am all for it. Unleashed and Generations sort of perfected the formula so it is time to reinvent the wheel but keep it consistent with what those two games brought. Similar to how the Adventure games did back in the game
Yes. It’s too centralizing, and we essentially lose a depth of interaction with the environment when our speed is never a concern. Past Unleashed, there are very few reasons to stop using boost as your primary means of just running, as not using boost often results in a clunkier Sonic.
I've been playing the New Genesis mod for a bit now in Frontiers and I think I like the style (albeit it needs some tweaking). The boost being a sort of dash to get up to near max speed works pretty well with momentum in the mix. You can go plenty fast enough with just the dash but if you want to really go top speed and master the levels, you have to incorporate momentum into the speed you get from the dash
After Frontiers, it really doesn't matter which way they go. I mean the spindash and boost are pretty interchangeable in that game or at least they should be. There isn't really a reason why boosting off a ramp should cause Sonic to be glued to the floor.
Doesn’t really need to go, should be honestly changed to a tap to *Burst* or *dash* into full running speed like spark the electric jester series. Then bring HOLD boost into idk Mac speed sections anyone?
I mean, there sure are a lot of Boost games. And it is very cool how each different Boost game has a different take on it. Y'know, Unleashed is reaction-based, Colours is Puzzle-Platforming, and Generations is a mix of the two. The Boost formula definitely has the benefit of being more easy to learn than the Classic or Adventure styles, and I think it does a great job at showing new people how fun it is to replay a stage over and over to get a faster time. Either way, I don't think it's as much about the moveset as it is the level design. I think I'd like to see Boost games cut back on QTE-like design, in favour of more open design that allows you to experiment with the fastest way to get through.
There’s this sonic frontiers mod called new genesis with a different physics that are heavily momentum based and it is incredible considering that we know that the next game will be a follow up for frontiers and it likes open world will be the way Sonic goes for a while yes they should return to momentum gameplay
It doesn't need to go, it just needs a new implementation. Instead of pushing one button to go fast, it should be the way it was in Sonic Advance. If you maintain your speed without being interrupted, you'll be rewarded with a raised speed cap. That demands skill from the player, and rewards them for knowing what they're doing.
Sonic wasn't about building speed since sa1, which had an instant speed button that unlike the boost was unlimited. The sa games in general have comparable levels of automation, including the stiff automated springs, as the games with boost so it's not really an alternative.
No. It can stay in standard games where sonics the only playable character. It can't be the only thing we have though. The spindash and ball forms nees to come back. They could do it like a mixture of the split between the mach stages and normal stages in 06 or the open world and cyberspace in frontiers, where some levels are boost centric and more urgent and others are a but more classic and chill like adventure.
The boost should've never evolved to how Frontiers uses it, the Homing Attack feels way to heavy and isn't really that Responsive as for the Ground Physics they are fine but the air Boost feels also very short, I think the boost Formula should go back to the Unleashed/Generations Physics
Frankly I think the Boost Formula isn't outright needing to go, but rather, it needs to be looked at more and more to see what can be gleaned from it and the best of the past entries in the 3D Era of Sonic. The Boost Formula so far has at the very least worked and showed it has a place, and in the right kind of level design and physics, there's even a way for it to be closely linked to the stuff of the past with games like Dream Team and Shadow Generations. I wouldn't so much want the Boost GONE, so much as I would rather see the styles marry into a wonderful gameplay style. Maybe, if the game could be made, I would want something in line with Sonic Advance 2. In that game, you had Momentum, but you also had a Boost Mode, where the name of the game was maintaining your speed and flow state in the game to then achieve a burst of speed to really give you that rush. If there was a Sonic game that maybe had it where you could use physics, tricks, and styles to then reach that Boost state, and the name of the game was to see how well the player could maintain that Boost State until they reached the end, that would rock imho. Heck, if we really need to, maybe have something more Adventure-esque, and there's Mach Speed Segments a la Sonic 06, but it has the spectacle gameplay of the Boost to make it the true reward for playing the platforming well enough to get a piece of the game that says "Cut loose and go fast"
the boost need to stay because it what make sonic gameplay more unique compare to other platformer games/fast pace game,I do think adventure style should comeback,maybe combine both of them or something
@@iceman92211it depends, I don't think you can combine something like SA1 with Sonic Generations but I do think you can combine SA2 with Shadow Generations. Not all boost games are the same.
@@iceman92211 games like the Adventure era games (SA1 to 06) can more easily be combined with Lost World, Frontiers, Dream Team and Shadow Generations because they're more in line with the traditional platformer hence can be mixed together more easily. Games like Unleashed, Colours, Sonic Generations and Forces are more speed based hence it's less easier to mix them with the adventure style. What I'm saying is not all boost games are the same and the ones I mentioned above can be more easily meshed with the Adventure style ones mentioned later on.
I've said it before and I'll say it again:Unleashed worked because it was two halves of what Sonic was split into two gameplay styles, and the boost doesn't work outside of that and doesn't let the full range of what Sonic can be shine. With stuff like the drop dash and spin boost in Frontiers, I think it's time to replace it with the Adventure spindash again, or at least give us the option
I understand that a lot of fans yearn for Adventure or Classic type physics and platforming to return, but realistically the current development team would never be able to pull it off. It's been almost 20 years since we've seen Adventure-adjacent gameplay, and most of the people who worked on those games no longer reside at Sonic Team. What we're really saying by asking Sonic Team to ditch boost altogether is start from scratch *again*, after 18+ years of one formula - boost. What I think would be a better option is to iterate over time and slowly make more classic physics a priority - slowly mix in mechanics more akin to legacy Sonic platforming and physics, test those mechanics and then add more when it works. This isn't exactly super ideal but it's the only something like Adventure or Classic gameplay styles would be able to he re-implemented in the modern day
The true question is, does the adventure formula have to come back? The answer is yes, also bring back the advanced and rush styles back to have 2d analogues.
I always thought something like Sonic 06 would work. Most of the game could be that "adventure" style people want, but then the "mach speed" sections would be a good place for some boost gameplay. Instead SEGA seems more interested in making yet another open world in a gaming market oversaturated with open worlds and I couldn't be less interested.
The boost itself is part of it, but I honestly think the bigger issue is the other set of things that came with Unleashed. You've got a super locked down camera, you've got 2D segments that are largely pointless because they don't bring any of the mechanics the classic series has that benefit from the change of perspective (it's hard to jump and roll down a half-pipe in 3D because you look out and it just looks like a hole, but in the side scroller 2D style you can generally see things that are below you better). Then there's this *extreme* over-reliance on the same handful of level design tropes. There's way too many 3-rail sections where you are just dodging attacks that come down the rails, way too many floating rings in the air that are your primary avenue for introducing a branch in the level, and outside of Generations just not enough interesting stuff to interact with. The open zone stuff in Frontiers in particular is extremely boring to me because the entirety of it just about is the same cookie cutter crap you get in all the boost games with pretty much zero unique interactables at all. I do want to see boost going so that Spindash/rolling and launching yourself way into the sky off of inclines can come back, but that only really helps if you have level design that actually uses it. And I'd still rather have a Shadow Gens quality boost game than a Sonic 2006 quality Adventure style game at any given time.
I just want to not only see Blaze the Cat boost again, but also to be officially playable in *3D* Boost, this is why I can't let them kill the Boost... yet If SEGA wants to put Blaze into the spotlight again, let that be another excuse to use the Boost formula again, and plus she debuted alongside the Boost mechanic, so why not sort of "celebrate how it all began" through a sort of 3D spiritual successor to the Rush duology or somethin
Is it just me or have I noticed that the Sonic fandom has this inherent need to change absolutely everything also stripping down Sonic in the process. I’ve seen momentum vs boost arguments so much that I’m starting to realize it’s not the fans wanting the best for Sonic but wanting what’s comfortable for them until they get tired and repeat this argument again but in reverse. I don’t think this is crazy to say but this “either or” shit really needs to leave this fandom.
While I would absolutely hate the Boost formula becoming the only 3D formula to ever exist for Sonic, I still find it fun. It's just that momentum is the gameplay that defined Sonic for a very long time, just abandoning it forever in 3D would mean that a lot of incredible games would've not been made.
Me personally, I don’t think the boost formula needs to be retired entirely, but there needs to be some more variety. Sonic in the 2000’s covered so many genres and gameplay types, but for the past ten years it’s been a solid 80% boost.
@ Because it was cool to hate on good games back then. Sonic and the Black Knight is near universally loved nowadays, the cult following for Shadow The Hedgehog has grown into a sizable fanbase, people like the Werehog stages in Unleashed now, there’s no end of love for a lot of the side games, and there’s even people (me) who like Sonic ‘06. For some reason everyone thought it would be so hip and trendy to pretend literally every Sonic game that wasn’t on the Sega Genesis was bad. You even had people like Projared back in the day trying to gaslight people into thinking that they only THOUGHT they liked Sonic Adventure 2, when they really only liked the Sonic/Shadow stages, which was not true.
I mean at least their creating this more open level design style and not just boosting in a straight line, so if they advance in this I think removing boost won't be necessary.
The problem is have with removing the boost is Sonic fans have to deal with drastically switching gameplay all the time. At least boost has been consistent and been getting improved kind of. Most inconsistent in rise and fall. I prefer Heroes gameplay being improved or espesically adventure. Even 06. 06 is bad but it is a good blueprint. I have seen many mods and fan games that look like great new directions too. But there are just as many people mad about inconsistent gameplay and character writing
I think it's notable that basically every boost game has very notable compromises, like the werehog or classic sonic that exist because a game that's purely the boost formula in 3D isn't cost effective to make. I kinda think Sega needs to rethink the formula not in terms of controls, but in terms of the actual structure of the game like Mario 64 did all the way back in the day. (Maybe frontiers did this, I haven't played it.)
@AYTM1200 You're right in saying that this point also applies to the adventure games. I would guess that people don't bring this up because the adventure formula has been dead for like a decade. I would also guess that people bring up development costs with the boost formula more often because, by coincidence, it just happens that the boost formula started being a thing right when HD game development was getting going and game development started getting more expensive every year.
The boost imo needs to take a back seat for a good while it's reached NSMB fatigue atp when playing Shadow Gens I go wow this is fun but man this game would be so much better with pinball physics based gameplay because everything feels kinda basic like the rails they all feel the same atp just go left and right like it's Subway Surfers. Pinball Physics based gameplay would allow them to do way more creative and interesting things with the level design.
They could bring back the "boostmentum" from Sonic Advance 2. As long as they dont bring back god awful trash like SA2's mech stages, Unleashed's werehog stages, or Frontiers' combat, they can make a good game.
Some people are tried of the boost outright while I dont agree I do understand, Some people like me feel like after Sonic Gens when they clearly had the best vision for the boost to platforming ratio the next game should have been that perfect Boost game with all new levels and such but Izuka threw it all out the window because he wanted something different despite fan sentiment at the time, and then you have the rest falling somewhere between out right hate for all things boost/automation and indifference to it all.
Honestly I'm fine with how Frontiers did it since the boost doesn't damage the enemies on contact essentially making it a basic sprint while the Spindash acts similar to how the boost originally did, except it sends you flying off slopes.
Frontiers boost was shit lmao
@@Kzvadia having more control over your direction is definitly shit
@BatMane95
I think having a hitbox is fine, so long as *not every* enemy gets instantly decimated by it (unless its Super Sonic or something like that). I think *having less control* with both consumption and orienting yourself might be a balanced approach.
@@Kzvadia
Ah nvm you’re right. Having complete control over Sonic’s physics and how it feels to move around is “shit”
@@Shonin23yeah man complete control of Sonic is the worst shit they ever did like omg why is something so good is added.
This video feels like it seriously downplays Shadow Generations. Off the bat, it's not really a spinoff. It's an expansion to Sonic Generations. And secondly, that game easily felt like one of the least automated Boost games out there.
as an avid boost fan, it's time for momentum based rolling gameplay to return
So not the adventure games then, or at least SA 2 😂
@@yoshihammerbro435 Not the Adventure games, they don't have accurate Classic Sonic physics
@@yoshihammerbro435 correct. Although they were good attempts at the time, fangames have far exceeded what they can do.
@@yoshihammerbro435so you understand
@@yoshihammerbro435 SA2 has a little of it. You do gain speed while rolling down hills, they just didn't make a satisfying way to enter a roll while moving... plus it has SA's issue of the spindash itself just being so damn overtuned that you don't don't see the benefit happening.
The standard 3D Camera also just makes it really hard to appreciate the kind of speed you are getting from inclines. And that's going to be a tough nut to crack if they ever do decided to do it.
idk why you keep bringing up automation as if the boost formula invented it. sa2 has more automation than most boost stages lol
That's a truth bomb a lot of Adventure 2 fans just won't admit.
BASED
Ultra based
EXACTLY
It goes even further back to Sonic 2 with boost pads being introduced. Quite frankly the only game that *isn't* totally automated for the most part is Sonic 1 lol
My biggest issue with this topic is the whole innovation argument. Getting rid of something isn’t innovation point, blank, period. If we really want sonic games to innovate then Instead of getting rid of the boost they simply need to pull back on its priority in gameplay and simply modify to where it’s not so much a formula but rather a move sonic has. There is a middle ground to be had and we’ve seen it done in various ways. I’m mainly in favor of it being locked behind a speed cap and requiring the player to use the terrain to maintain said speed to keep access to the boost.
Sonic Advance 2’s boost mode is something I wanna see implemented in a 3D Sonic title
Getting rid of the boost actually has a lot of potential for innovation because its existence obviates so many other mechanics. There's very little point to things like the spindash when you have a single button move that takes you to top speed quickly and lets you maintain full control for instance. That's part of why they had to gimp the move so hard in Frontiers and eventually brought in a spindash that was so overtuned that it was basically just the old boost on steroids.
They *could* make the resource for boost much harder to come by to compensate, but then you'd still have the issue of having a dedicated button for using it. Getting rid of the move outright to make way for more interesting stuff just seems like the right call in my eyes.
You didn't fix anything, none of you did.
@@deedoubsand that's not even mentioning the level design which necessarily is more restricted when designing around the mechanic. The boost is simply too over centralizing to design a deep movement kit around.
@@Rusty_Spy
Perhaps making the Boost more akin to UnWiished might be a start...
I hate it when people say "this has gotta go" when talking about Sonic. It really just shows ignorance towards the thing their talking about, since the only reason thy say so is because it doesn't appeal to them. While it's fine to have preferences, they should never take precedence over others.
The boost is my favourite Sonic gameplay style, I would hate to see it go. While you may want Adventure style gameplay, you gotta remember how you felt when 06 destroyed it's reputation, leading it to be discarded. Why would you want that to happen to the boost fans as well? We almost never gain anything from throwing out what doesn't work.
With that in mind, how do we solve this? If we shouldn't throw anything out, what are we going to do with all of it? Well, the answer is simple. Hybrids, like Daviron mentioned himself. Mario has been doing it since he got into 3D. 64 and Odyssey are vastly different, but the way they got there wasn't radical change like classic to Adventure, or Adventure to Boost. It was gradual innovation from ever game. That's why Odyssey has so many movement options, it's been building for 30 years. Sonic should do the same.
As for how, I have a few examples. Sonic Rush, Sonic Dream Team, and Sonic Speed Simulator. The first and last actually both have the boost and spindash. But I want to focus on Speed Simulator. You may have heard of it, but that's not necessary. Let me just explain tk you the movement.
The physics are like a combination of Classic and Adventure sonic. For the prior, we have badnik bouncing, semi automatic loops, spindash, etc. For the latter, there's the homing attack, spindash jumping, rail grinding, etc. But the boost also comes into play. In this game, you have to both gain, _and_ maintain speed. Like the classics, you can gain a lot of speed by rolling down hills. Like the boost, boosting will give you an immediate burst of speed. With the combination however, you can gain speed by using your environment, and then also maintain thag speed by using the boost and quick reaction time.
I highly recommend you try out Sonic Speed Simulator. Not to get into all the gacha mechanic, but because the movement is genuinely genius, and what the mainline games need.
I have a bit of an alternate take on this:
Boost works, just not on the *character* of Sonic. It fits perfectly fine on someone like Shadow or Metal Sonic, who I'd love to get their own campaign with the boost formula in the same game as a Sonic that has similar gameplay to that of the Adventure games.
I don't cosign this play style compromise because as the rush games proved, you will not be engaging with the spin dash much if you're gonna have boost. The boost at its core is a souped-up run button. Make it too powerful and you'll have all this speed either coming with the cost of movement or new level design a challenge. Make it too slow and the run button allegations only strengthen, hampering movement unnecessarily. Trying to combine it with something like the spin dash, an option that essentially have the same function but with a necessary amount draw back (stopping you in place) feels pointless.
I had a stigma against run buttons in general and I think Shadow Gens open zone proves my point because the movement there is so absurdly boring. Nerfed boost + heavy air drag + boring double jump? not s fan personally
@@scrubscrub4492 I like this. But it would increase the work load. If it's just those characters then it could happen.
@@realestAG did you read my whole comment? I gave an explanation as to how this could work with Sonic Speed Simulator.
I just think the Boost gameplay is not the go-to gameplay for Sonic in any way. And that's coming from someone whose favorite Sonic game is Sonic Generations.
I really wouldn’t want the new boost formula to be scrapped in favor of trying to make new gameplay mechanics, therefore making a brand new engine all over again. I don’t want another Sonic Lost World. I think perfecting the current boost system even further would be better. Such as adding a proper drift mechanic.
you can disagree but my personal biggest issue with the boost gameplay compared to the adventure style is how linear and kinda un-experimental it is in comparison, on top of how much it relies on reaction-based gameplay in most of the games. it’s fun, don’t get me wrong, but being able to freely move around with razor-sharp and weighty controls, exploring every level for secret items while having that classic experimentation and momentum-based speed is way too good to abandon. the level design was also way more interesting as it was designed around the tight controls and physics, making for super engaging gameplay.
Like most sonic fans, you think linear stages are bad. Linearity is not a bad thing, what matters is level design, and guess what most boost games have good level design. And SA2 is more linear than you think, the speed stages are corridors with extra steps, just like the boost games.
Like you, I would like a game more physics based, we got something like that when frontiers added sliders and spindash but it was kinda broken since you could fly across stages
Also, since frontiers, the boost isn't really reaction based since it's much slower than in unleashed or gens
@@oeufoplat1079 i don’t think linearity is a bad thing, i just think more flexibility is much better. i will say that SA2’s speed stages are far more linear than SA1’s, but still has the physics, tight controls and experimentation that game had while having great design. i don’t think it’s comparable to the boost games, although the design is still solid in those games. i will also say that shadow gens is an amazing step for the boost gameplay with the great controls, level design and chaos control gimmick.
combine that and the adventure-style exploration, movement and physics (also rail-grind balancing i miss that) and boom masterpiece. 👌
@duck___e alright sorry for the assumption. I have a mixed opinion on the adventure rail balance, maybe because my only experience with it was the broken sensitivity of SA2B. And they need a reason to bring it back, boost rails are simple but they work. If we get rail balance it should help us reach faster paths, like if you're fast enough when going up a rail ramp, you can go higher and get to an alternate pathway. Or if an ennemy is running after you, breaking the rail, you can outrun it by keeping a perfect balance
@duck___eSA2 doesn't have much experimentation in it's level design. It's a precursor to the boost games just with no 2D and a spin dash.
I think I like when Sonic stages have multiple ways of getting past an obstacle based that encourage you to experiment. It makes me feel very cool when I find a new, faster way to get through a section of a level.
I’m not suggesting momentum based gameplay, but I am suggesting that Sonic needs to incorporate more rolling into his gameplay, he’s a hedgehog but he rarely curls into a ball to do anything anymore and it just strikes me as a little odd
There's really no point in rolling if you don't have 'momentum based gameplay' (I kinda dislike that name). Rolling is only fun because of the way it lets you use gravity to your advantage.
Plus Sonic does still curl into a ball very frequently. Every time he jumps in fact.
@@deedoubs except its that ugly jumpball from forces 😭😭😭😭
there's no point in rolling when the boost is a thing
@@hmmmpIt could still work, with how ungodly slow the boost is now we could bring back rolling with boost as a quick way to get back up to speed, heck make the boost like Frontiers and not let it damage enemies and bring back the roll and slide kick for combat options. It's entirely doable
Comment #3
6:49 sometimes it feels like Sonic fans think the only way for this series to respond to failure is by completely altering everything about itself
When that hypothetical momentum based Sonic game bombs, would u still want them to expand on it or would u beg for another radical gameplay shift?
Obviously you've got to get it right for it to be worthwhile. I don't see any reason for it to bomb though unless it's just very poorly made. It's not like Sonic Forces bombed and it *was* poorly made.
Sonic Dream Team is a great example of how to handle the boost in a different way
Just make boost and adventure styled games we don't need one over the other, sega makes classic and boost games currently so just add adventure into the mix too. People need to drop the notion that you can't have both boost and adventure styled games being made, no-one is pointing a gun at your head to pick we can have both
Honestly your right
A nice fusion of both momentum and boost is good
A mixture of both the Boost and Adventure formula would work.
Sonic Frontiers is a pretty close game to that.
Honestly, why not just combine both?
Like classic sonic and Modern in Generations, there can be Momentum style and Boost style. Though I wouldn't recommend doing this because this could work if Sonic is the only character, the fact multiple characters are NOW up on the table, it would mean making the two for EVERY CHARACTER which is a huge workload.
I think Frontiers 2 will go the more physics route of Adventure considering Kishimoto has expressed to WANTING to go down it. Let's see what Sonic Team can experiment with now they have a path of what they want to do with Sonic.
I personally don't think it needs to go, it just needs to be improved upon, because at its core, it's a genuinely fun mechanic.
I believe we can just compensate both momentum based rolling and the boost gameplay, like a version of how Sonic Frontiers later did with the spin dash and boost
The in-game cutscenes in Shadow Gens actually seem to be a way to cover up loading screens during the levels for the Switch version
They are. Idk why you make it sound like it's vaque, it's pretty clear.
I really believe the Boost and Adventure formula can be merged together if done right, I've been wanting this for a long time
For example sonic infinity engine
I much prefer boosting, but I think it was at its best in Unleashed, these days it feels slow (in levels).
I dont think the boost needs to be completely removed, they just need to fix all the other fundamental problems in regards to flow and momentum. But i wouldnt be complaining if the next game didn't have the boost at all, and we got much wider levels to roll around in. I think the Advance 2 boost mode is a much better compromise anyway.
I'm perfectly fine with the style of control, movement and tangibility the Frontiers/SxS system provides. It almost feels like a jack of all trades. Only thing I really want now is refinements and additions. Adding more legacy moves in Sonic's moveset like Lost World parkour, 06 gems-esque abilities, Unleashed drifting, SA2 bouncing, make Sonic a consistent powerhouse instead of a gimmick-per-game and then forget/underuse type of character.
I feel like we have oversimplified the argument of
I don’t believe we just need to toss out the boost. In fact linking boost to automation kind of ignores how the adventure games are automated too.
The point on springs also counts toward the adventure games same with the dash pads and the spindash re vamp.
Even 06 got rid of rail balancing not the boost
The way forward imo is to make a hybrid style that takes what’s good about the boost Fast thrills high speed reactions dynamic camera
And add momentum into it all la the advance boost system
I see the Boost in Sonic Frontiers as more like a run button to be honest.
I think people have gone so long without being rewarded with the ability to fly over stages in Sonic games that they’re scared of the idea and can’t see the games implementing mechanics that both build towards and work directly with that ability you earned through skill.
I should be able to play a 3D platformer with daredevil skating/parkour mechanics and be able to not only skilfully parkour through small areas and explore at a leisurely but stylish pace, but build up enough speed, with precision, great timing, and great reaction time, to fling myself over vast distances and still be able to use my move-set to traverse the Y axis at ludicrous speeds.
I feel like the main fear of doing away with the boost from a sega dev perspective is that from a visual aspect Sonic literally won’t be able to do what he has done before in regards to running long distance at speeds that cause him to destroy anything in front of him.
It’s comparable to a fighting game introducing a second super meter, or assist characters in one game, and then taking them out in the next and the fan base believing that the gameplay is slower or characters are weaker as a result.
If a momentum based Sonic game were to come out, it would need to be both good to control, and offer interesting spectacle (which frontiers and shadow generations have so we know Sonic team knows Sonic thrives off spectacle)
Whaylt aboit the boost from Sonic Unleashed Wii/PS2? Have it act like a Mario Kart shroom boost, and like the game have it level up with rings. Have it be a risk reward system
Eh not quite, the whole point of the boost is to make the games a little more accessible, making it hard to use removes that.
IMO the boost doesn’t need to go
It’s still fun and it’s not broken not to mention how new gimmicks could add to that concept but
I just think proper momentum Alla sonic Gt Rollin Rascal and Spark the electric Jester
Could add a lot more
I think it doesnt need to go away entirely. My ideal would be a boost that increases your acceleration (so you don't go top speed instantly) and only helps you hit a soft cap for speed. Using terrain and stage elements are what you'd need to use to push past that soft cap
For me no because I truly believe both momentum base platforming and boost can indeed work with smooth controls which I believe works pretty well with shadow gens but what I did notice one major flaw in shadow gens is that in sonic forces when you stomp on the curve that goes straight down your character will pick up speed, but in shadow gens in sun set hights he doesn’t do that he just sticks on the ground like Spider-Man lol.
For main title gameplay? Yes.
The thing about the boost gameplay is that it was designed for going in straight lines very fast. If they want to make the open-zone work they will need to rethink how it works and gradually they are staring to reintroduce more Adventure-esque elements.
The thing with the boost formula is that it would be really difficult to justify leaving it. For one, story reasons. With these new Sonic games, they are extremely focused on continuity, and at this point, the boost is just part of Sonic's canon moveset, like the homing attack and, more recently, the drop dash. They'd have to come up with some story reason to justify why he just lost this ability or why it bacame heavily nerfed.
The other reason is the response to Frontiers and Shadow Gens. They have gotten positive reception from both games that they are improving the formula as they go. If they just drop the boost right before the next big game that can fully show what they've learned from Frontiers and Shadow, that wouldn't help them at all. Especially since the last time they did that, Lost World, was widely considered a bad move from fans.
I think at this point in time, the only way you'll see the Adventure formula again is in a spin off or some kind of reboot.
I think they should keep the boost, but implement a way bigger focus on momentum, add the tricks from rush back into 3D but also nerfing the amount of boost you can store, and reimplementing the scoring from adventure 2 in certain setpieces (for example, in Shadow's first level, when he's sliding down a building, reaching those rainbow rings would reward a bigger score bonus than the red ones).
I think that's close to figuring out the boost format. What I'd like to see is it being the mid speed sustainable option, kind of like frontiers. Then they could implement a spin dash that was more momentum based, starting at a faster speed but stopping eventually without momentum.
Also, final horizons sonic was peak. While you couldn't do a whole game that hard without losing people, I'd like some of that in a sequel. It was the first time in a long time a sonic game was confident enough to give it's players something difficult to do and it was a ton of fun.
I feel like they could combine both. They could make sections where you can't boost and then maybe at the end of those you get a boost style section. Half adventure half boost
3:37 Why’d you say boost formula here when it’s all of 3D sonic….
Minus dream team
My personal opinion (both in what I want to see and what I think is most likely) is that if rolling physics return boost will stay, albeit in a far more restricted manner (like UnWiished) to act as a backup option to patch up mistakes or give yourself even more speed for a skip, basically kinda just what the Spindash was for 2D physics gameplay
Honestly, I think there is a way to incorporate both styles:
1. Obviously adding inertia/momentum: Physics-based platforming. Additionally being able to brake by holding the joystick in the opposing direction just like in classic sonic games.
2. Not by adding spindash, but giving Sonic his ability to roll again.
The way this could work is by getting rid of the boost's ability to plow through enemies to make Sonic vulnerable, and the only way to actually get through enemies is to actively roll into them like a bowling ball. That way the player is forced to be careful and enemies become an active threat within stages.
3. The bounce and stomp can be on the same button, but it depends on if you're pressing it or holding it. Pressing the button will give you bounce and holding the button will give you the stomp.
Drifting is not really needed if the movement is similar to what we seen in Fronters/Shadow Gens. When it comes to side-stepping, I much prefer (Imo) that Sonic can sort of slide across the floor similar (but not the same) as Shadow in Shadow Gens. Other than that, side-stepping is in the same boat as the drift if the movement is pretty good.
Another thing I think that should be added is the ability to still keeping you're inertia/momentum while homing attacking depending on if you press or hold the button (similar to bounce/stomp). Pressing will push you forward while holding will halt you a tiny bit in the air.
For character specifics:
Sonic is the only one to use homing attack and have both bounce and stomp.
Tails can fly and (optional) bounce. Tails spinning his two tails can hit enemies above him.
Knuckles can glide/climb walls and drills downward (basically stomp). His glide hits enemies that is in front of him.
I feel like both types have their advantages, and it could work in seperate situations, like for example if there are multiple acts, one could use something similar to adventure or classic where it is more about momentum, and a second where its more open and based around learning how to abuse the instant burst of momentum to do things, like air boosts to jump large gaps, run on water, etc
I like the idea of having the boost be a special state sonic is put into when at high speeds, keeping that ability to plow through everything in your way without making whatever would be brought back from adventure(spin dash, using the environment to build speed) redundant.
So Advance 2 boost with the ability to damage enemies? If you're doing it that way damaging enemies is redundant because the roll already does
@ fair enough, i guess we could just reserve the boost for a special alternate gameplay state, similar to Mach speed, where sonic loses the roll, but has that damaging version of the advance 2 boost mode instead.
@@jackhumphries1087 Why not just have the Advance 2 boost? Mach Speed sections even in P06 are kinda finicky to play
I do think there is a world where the boost and momentum type gameplay can be used together, like a hybrid game or at least co-exist individually in different games. Sonic going back to its adventure roots and putting emphasis on 3D platforming with momentum based movement sounds appealing, and a lot fans love that style.
But I also think that the boost gameplay has more room to grow and be expanded upon. Shadow Gens proved that there's more to be explored with the boost formula. I would love to see how they innovate it in future games.
What do you think Shadow Generations does for the boost formula that no other boost game did prior?
@@kieronix4071 good controls for both boost and platforming
@Zerosaber91 I feel that eliminates the purpose of the boost though. It literally just becomes a run button at that point, there's no downside to boosting because you still control just as well as you do without boosting.
In Shadow Generations if the boost was removed and Shadow's non-boosting top speed was higher the game would play the exact same because the boost doesn't really add much to the gameplay besides increasing Shadow's speed.
@@kieronix4071 I think it comes down to how the mechanics were handled. Chaos control being a main factor, as it brought a new dynamic to how the stages operate. There was synergy there, just like how the doom powers synergizes with the rest of Shadow's kit.
I've played Sonic generations a lot, but I don't think I've had as much fun compared to Shadow Gens! just toying around with CC and figuring out strategies and experimenting with it, was fun as hell.
No boost, no buy
Have you tried going boostless in those games? It feels horrible to run normaly, boost is a crutch to avoid making proper running
The boost shouldn't go, but it needs to take a backseat as being the main way of locomotion in Sonic Games since it kills the thrill of building speed and momentum by having a "Go Fast" button. I heard a leak for Sonic Frontiers 2 that they'll bring back momentum-based movement, with the boost being a short burst of speed, but by building momentum through pinball physics, you can go faster than the boost. I think that is the best way to move around in Sonic Games. The boost being a good way to start with speed and pinball physics being the main way to go even faster.
(Note: This is a 4Chan Leak. Take this with a grain of salt)
Honestly why not do abit of both or have the boost as a unlockable move or only have them in the act stages
Id say give the lost world formula a try again. Its unique and gives new experimentation
U tripping if u really asking this question. Go play Sonic av 1 and 2 and all the classics if u dont like the boost mechanics, they can even merge the old and the new mechanics but asking about completely taking away boost is moving backwards
"In my opinion, the boost in Sonic Frontiers is the best. It makes you go faster but not invincible. In other games, the boost makes you invincible, which gets boring since it’s just about pressing the button and worrying about jumping over a few barriers. On the other hand, in Sonic Frontiers, you have to stay alert and make sure you don’t hit enemies. That’s the true essence of the boost.
Boost should stay but there should always be other options too
Here's what they can do.
Next game (after the "upcoming" Frontiers sequel) can have the Adventure style gameplay. That way, if they choose to, they can alternate, and plan. That's what I hope they do. Alternating and planning their next move.
If they don't want to get rid of it, fine. But I wish that they do something new with this formula, but instead they have been taking away stuff like short-hops, the drift and enemy bouncing, they don't even use the slide in SxSG, why is it even there in the first place?
My point here is that I want something new, maybe not get rid of the boost, but add more stuff to it.
I would actually love if they made a better version of the wall running in Sonic Frontiers, that was a part I loved from that game, it was so fun climbing and running on walls at high speed, imagine doing that in a game like SxSG, they did it a bit in The Arch act 1, but it wasn't much really.
The slide is definitely a step in the right direction though, considering if we compare Frontiers side-step to Shadow's slide its alot more responsive.
I agree they need to bring back old mechanics like drift, short hop and an improvement on air dashing. Even though the drift isn't necessary, it's still gives the player more choices on how to play the game.
@Electrical010 Exactly, enemy bouncing is another mechanic that is mostly useless, but there were still some cool things you could do with it. It is about having the option, giving a bit of freedom to the player.
The boost games are very close, you are set to do something, and you have to do it, there is no other way, the only boost game that allowed you to do more than the game asked was Generatios but then even is Sonic Frontiers, an open world game still takes you into linear closed sequences.
Shadow Gens is also designed this way, it of wasn't for sphere gliding, I would not love this game because it does not allow me to do more to do more than what is asking me to do.
Boost gameplay is fun, I think SEGA can do a lot more with it. Plus I still want a Sonic game with boost game where the game is fully 3D.
We need it because it makes you feel that acceleration of speed
Sega has been tweaking the boost to allow for more platforming and momentum. I say keep tweaking it. Stop trying to throw out everything that isn't perfect at the first try, that's the reason we got lost world instead of a proper followup to generations
A neat way to made a momentum boost formula is the way that spark the electric jester 3 did
It's a momentum game with a move set of boost
Has a little boost of mantain the flow in case of lose it and if you want more speed like boost you has to do an input to stop and charge until reach the peak speed
All this like a little substitution of boost while you had the momentum gameplay without change all the structure of the sonic game
Could be the solution but still with big issues like how to explain the mecanic base game without 5 different tutorial
As I see it, the boost really excels at two things: the spectacle of going insanely fast, and making these high speed obstacle courses which challenge the player's reaction time almost like a rhythm game. Now Unleashed really leaned into both of those things and it remains the most viscerally exciting Sonic game to date. The problem is it's also hard as hell, so later games had to tone it down, but even then it's extremely limiting in terms of how the game can be designed, since everything needs to be built around this one overpowering mechanic. When everything about Sonic in these games is built for running down a linear track at a million miles per hours doing anything else is frustrating, whether it's because you want to do something different but have to fight the controls to do it, or because the game tries to introduce some variety but has to bring you to a screeching halt to accommodate it, as in many of Generations' 2D sections.
Come Frontiers and the these issues have been rectified, at the cost of the boost getting nerfed to the weakest its ever been. It also exposes another issue, which is that the depth and fun of the boost gameplay really came from using it to run through levels that are designed to constantly throw obstacles your way. Boosting in the open zone is just not that exciting, which is a problem for an open world game since the genre THRIVES on interesting traversal mechanics, be that Assassin's Creed's parkour, Just Cause's grappling hook and vehicles, Spider-Man's web swinging, Breath of the Wild's climbing and paraglider, or even Death Stranding requiring you to manage you balance to keep your cargo safe on rough terrain.
Shadow Generations is the best Sonic game since... possibly Adventure 2, and the boost is pretty much superfluous there. Heck, if anything it benefits from the weaker boost because it gives other interesting mechanics room to breath. They easily could've just dropped the boost and made the current boost speed Shadow's normal running speed and the game would be basically the same. At this point it's just Lost World's run button with a time limit.
Boosting through an open world can be a lot of fun. The issue is that the map is hardly built with any interesting exploration that factors the boost into it.
boost gameplay seems to put a lot of strain on development, and its not hard to see why: sonic moves so absurdly fast, so you have to make the levels HUGE to accommodate him. you also have to make the level design engaging to play through while also not alienating new players. you dont want the levels to be too short, but you also want to have enough levels that the game feels worth full price. with all of that combined, its very easy to understand why we havent had a single boost game that hasnt relied on a different gameplay style and/or a good amount of 2d and slow platforming
and for the slow platforming, that is easily the weakest part of the boost formula for a few reasons:
1. it doesnt mesh well at all with the flow of the reaction based gameplay boost is good at. theres SO much stopping and waiting for moving platforms and such, and its just not fun. i think this is why 2d gets so much hate, because most of the slow parts of boost games are 2d. its less the dimension and more the level design itself. you dont see a lot of complaints about games like the rush series, or the 2d parts of unleashed, because they dont have nearly as much pacebreaking level design
2. the physics are AWFUL. yes its gotten better with frontiers and shadow gens, but its still not very good for a platformer. i play mostly platformers and id say im pretty good at them, and one of the most important parts of any platformer is the physics, especially jump physics. most games will take you a bit to get accustomed to the controls, but at a certain point it becomes second nature and youll be very confident with most of your jumps. that just never happened with me in any boost game, especially when playing in 3d. i loved the towers in frontiers and its dlc (despite the difficulty), but you have to admit it does rely quite a bit on having objects and enemies that you can use the homing attack on so you dont have to make as many precise landings. in contrast, adventure 1 and 2 and the classic games have incredible and very precise controls in my opinion. ofc it can take getting used to and theyre not always perfect, but theyre much better suited for precise platforming than any boost game
also, id argue that the boost formula is actually LESS friendly to newcomers than the classic and adventure games. at least when it comes to the boost games that have that engaging, nonstop quick reaction time gameplay
with boost games, youre frequently discouraged or outright prevented from moving at your own pace. sometimes its having rows of enemies that you have to boost through, sometimes its water you have to boost to stay on top of, sometimes its grind rails that keep you moving, sometimes its none of those things but the game automates your running.
in my opinion, this can make it a lot more difficult and frustrating to practice and learn a level, because youre constantly running into things or dying because youre just going too fast to react to stuff. unleashed is a particularly bad example of this because of how blisteringly fast and difficult it is. now take this frustration and imagine it from the perspective of someone entirely new to sonic, who isnt used to having to rely on quick reaction timing, and who isnt familiar with the types of level design sonic games have
with classic and adventure games, while there are some segments where you cant stop your movement, theyre much less frequent and tend to not have much that can hurt you. you can go at your own pace and learn the level layout on your own terms, so you can go faster at the points where you know whats coming up ahead, and just keep practicing to perfection
i dont think its necessary to have a total 1:1 return to the adventure formula, but it is important to identify what does and doesnt work, and what is or isnt sustainable in the long run. i think at the very least, sonics gotta slow down. shadow gens being slower than base gens is definitely a step in the right direction. i also think in the future they should probably be more direct with communicating how new players should approach the level design i.e. PLS STOP RUSHING IF U DONT KNOW WHAT UR DOING.....
also to clarify, when i talk about physics i mean the basic movement physics that any video game needs, not the type of momentum and gravity based physics many sonic games have. dont get me wrong, i would LOVE for them to encorporate more momentum based gameplay, but i dont think its as strictly necessary as other gameplay elements. sonic at the absolute minimum has to be comfortable and satisfying to control, and not have to rely so hard on a double jump for precision platforming
(p.s. if you love the momentum based platforming of the adventure games PLEASE play glyph.... its going to feel a lot slower at first but its extremely rewarding to master the controls and imo has a much higher skill ceiling than sonic games. its an amazing hidden gem)
This comment has a complete lack of understanding of Sonic games.
@@AYTM1200 thank you for your insightful commentary
@@yamimarus3550 your welcome.
I have no clue what you mean when you say these games can outright prohibit you from playing at your own pace. Like a game like SxSG you can literally just tip toe your way through levels at a snail’s pace, if you wanted to. It’s not interesting gameplay, but you can.
Also, telling people that the Adventure games are more user friendly than the boost games just seems outright wrong. Like in any capacity. Maybe for a game like Unleashed, but most boost games are as simple as they get. Adventure games hardly even explain the mechanics on how they even function.
I love the boost. I would kill to see 3d momentum based open worlds where you can reach insane speeds with almost no speed cap using the power of physics, but keep the boost as a little extra oomph if you wanna go even faster but make it more optional than required
We dont need to get rid of boost we need level variety and more options to travel through a stage with faster routes being more difficult and complex
It’s not about boosting itself, it’s about the stagnant physics and level design concepts. Even as far back as Sonic Adventure, physics based level design was abandoned as a concept for 3D Sonic level design. Keep the boost and just make a game with no 2D, no dash panels, no automation on loops, and manual balancing on grind rails. I promise that at that point, you’d be making a completely different game than any other Sonic game, boost or no boost.
Boost formula started in 2005 with Sonic Rush. Technically it was in Hereos way back in 2003
I think if Sonic Team makes the games more like Shadow Gens and Frontiers, where you don't really need to use it but it adds a lot to the experience, than I am all for it. Unleashed and Generations sort of perfected the formula so it is time to reinvent the wheel but keep it consistent with what those two games brought. Similar to how the Adventure games did back in the game
Yes. It’s too centralizing, and we essentially lose a depth of interaction with the environment when our speed is never a concern. Past Unleashed, there are very few reasons to stop using boost as your primary means of just running, as not using boost often results in a clunkier Sonic.
I've been playing the New Genesis mod for a bit now in Frontiers and I think I like the style (albeit it needs some tweaking). The boost being a sort of dash to get up to near max speed works pretty well with momentum in the mix. You can go plenty fast enough with just the dash but if you want to really go top speed and master the levels, you have to incorporate momentum into the speed you get from the dash
After Frontiers, it really doesn't matter which way they go. I mean the spindash and boost are pretty interchangeable in that game or at least they should be. There isn't really a reason why boosting off a ramp should cause Sonic to be glued to the floor.
Is it me or has the word “automation” become nothing short of a community buzzword? It really has no meaning at this point.
Doesn’t really need to go, should be honestly changed to a tap to *Burst* or *dash* into full running speed like spark the electric jester series.
Then bring HOLD boost into idk Mac speed sections anyone?
I mean, there sure are a lot of Boost games. And it is very cool how each different Boost game has a different take on it. Y'know, Unleashed is reaction-based, Colours is Puzzle-Platforming, and Generations is a mix of the two. The Boost formula definitely has the benefit of being more easy to learn than the Classic or Adventure styles, and I think it does a great job at showing new people how fun it is to replay a stage over and over to get a faster time.
Either way, I don't think it's as much about the moveset as it is the level design. I think I'd like to see Boost games cut back on QTE-like design, in favour of more open design that allows you to experiment with the fastest way to get through.
There’s this sonic frontiers mod called new genesis with a different physics that are heavily momentum based and it is incredible considering that we know that the next game will be a follow up for frontiers and it likes open world will be the way Sonic goes for a while yes they should return to momentum gameplay
As long as i can run really fast and having fun while doing it, dont care if it boost, spindash or whatever thing they invent
It doesn't need to go, it just needs a new implementation. Instead of pushing one button to go fast, it should be the way it was in Sonic Advance.
If you maintain your speed without being interrupted, you'll be rewarded with a raised speed cap. That demands skill from the player, and rewards them for knowing what they're doing.
6:39 IT ALL STARTS WITH THIS. A JEWEL CONTAINING THE ULTIMATE POWER.
Sonic wasn't about building speed since sa1, which had an instant speed button that unlike the boost was unlimited. The sa games in general have comparable levels of automation, including the stiff automated springs, as the games with boost so it's not really an alternative.
No. It can stay in standard games where sonics the only playable character. It can't be the only thing we have though. The spindash and ball forms nees to come back. They could do it like a mixture of the split between the mach stages and normal stages in 06 or the open world and cyberspace in frontiers, where some levels are boost centric and more urgent and others are a but more classic and chill like adventure.
The boost should've never evolved to how Frontiers uses it, the Homing Attack feels way to heavy and isn't really that Responsive as for the Ground Physics they are fine but the air Boost feels also very short, I think the boost Formula should go back to the Unleashed/Generations Physics
Frankly I think the Boost Formula isn't outright needing to go, but rather, it needs to be looked at more and more to see what can be gleaned from it and the best of the past entries in the 3D Era of Sonic. The Boost Formula so far has at the very least worked and showed it has a place, and in the right kind of level design and physics, there's even a way for it to be closely linked to the stuff of the past with games like Dream Team and Shadow Generations.
I wouldn't so much want the Boost GONE, so much as I would rather see the styles marry into a wonderful gameplay style.
Maybe, if the game could be made, I would want something in line with Sonic Advance 2.
In that game, you had Momentum, but you also had a Boost Mode, where the name of the game was maintaining your speed and flow state in the game to then achieve a burst of speed to really give you that rush.
If there was a Sonic game that maybe had it where you could use physics, tricks, and styles to then reach that Boost state, and the name of the game was to see how well the player could maintain that Boost State until they reached the end, that would rock imho.
Heck, if we really need to, maybe have something more Adventure-esque, and there's Mach Speed Segments a la Sonic 06, but it has the spectacle gameplay of the Boost to make it the true reward for playing the platforming well enough to get a piece of the game that says "Cut loose and go fast"
the boost need to stay because it what make sonic gameplay more unique compare to other platformer games/fast pace game,I do think adventure style should comeback,maybe combine both of them or something
If you try to combine both of them then the level design will be a complete mess.
@@iceman92211it depends, I don't think you can combine something like SA1 with Sonic Generations but I do think you can combine SA2 with Shadow Generations.
Not all boost games are the same.
@@AYTM1200 I don’t know what exactly you mean about some games can’t be combined despite having similar gameplay.
@@iceman92211 games like the Adventure era games (SA1 to 06) can more easily be combined with Lost World, Frontiers, Dream Team and Shadow Generations because they're more in line with the traditional platformer hence can be mixed together more easily.
Games like Unleashed, Colours, Sonic Generations and Forces are more speed based hence it's less easier to mix them with the adventure style.
What I'm saying is not all boost games are the same and the ones I mentioned above can be more easily meshed with the Adventure style ones mentioned later on.
I've said it before and I'll say it again:Unleashed worked because it was two halves of what Sonic was split into two gameplay styles, and the boost doesn't work outside of that and doesn't let the full range of what Sonic can be shine. With stuff like the drop dash and spin boost in Frontiers, I think it's time to replace it with the Adventure spindash again, or at least give us the option
Imo, I think Frontiers proved they can work together, especially considering the boost is so slow now.
i would love a thing like rollin rascal
I understand that a lot of fans yearn for Adventure or Classic type physics and platforming to return, but realistically the current development team would never be able to pull it off. It's been almost 20 years since we've seen Adventure-adjacent gameplay, and most of the people who worked on those games no longer reside at Sonic Team. What we're really saying by asking Sonic Team to ditch boost altogether is start from scratch *again*, after 18+ years of one formula - boost.
What I think would be a better option is to iterate over time and slowly make more classic physics a priority - slowly mix in mechanics more akin to legacy Sonic platforming and physics, test those mechanics and then add more when it works. This isn't exactly super ideal but it's the only something like Adventure or Classic gameplay styles would be able to he re-implemented in the modern day
The true question is, does the adventure formula have to come back?
The answer is yes, also bring back the advanced and rush styles back to have 2d analogues.
I always thought something like Sonic 06 would work. Most of the game could be that "adventure" style people want, but then the "mach speed" sections would be a good place for some boost gameplay.
Instead SEGA seems more interested in making yet another open world in a gaming market oversaturated with open worlds and I couldn't be less interested.
I feel like the more rings you have the faster you go
The boost itself is part of it, but I honestly think the bigger issue is the other set of things that came with Unleashed. You've got a super locked down camera, you've got 2D segments that are largely pointless because they don't bring any of the mechanics the classic series has that benefit from the change of perspective (it's hard to jump and roll down a half-pipe in 3D because you look out and it just looks like a hole, but in the side scroller 2D style you can generally see things that are below you better). Then there's this *extreme* over-reliance on the same handful of level design tropes. There's way too many 3-rail sections where you are just dodging attacks that come down the rails, way too many floating rings in the air that are your primary avenue for introducing a branch in the level, and outside of Generations just not enough interesting stuff to interact with. The open zone stuff in Frontiers in particular is extremely boring to me because the entirety of it just about is the same cookie cutter crap you get in all the boost games with pretty much zero unique interactables at all.
I do want to see boost going so that Spindash/rolling and launching yourself way into the sky off of inclines can come back, but that only really helps if you have level design that actually uses it. And I'd still rather have a Shadow Gens quality boost game than a Sonic 2006 quality Adventure style game at any given time.
I just want to not only see Blaze the Cat boost again, but also to be officially playable in *3D* Boost, this is why I can't let them kill the Boost... yet
If SEGA wants to put Blaze into the spotlight again, let that be another excuse to use the Boost formula again, and plus she debuted alongside the Boost mechanic, so why not sort of "celebrate how it all began" through a sort of 3D spiritual successor to the Rush duology or somethin
They did have like three chances to do that and they still didn’t.
I don't think that's ever going to happen, honestly.
@@Kelps.mp4 probably because it’s been 19 years since Blaze debuted, and she never got a chance to be playable in 3D outside of that one time in 06.
Is it just me or have I noticed that the Sonic fandom has this inherent need to change absolutely everything also stripping down Sonic in the process.
I’ve seen momentum vs boost arguments so much that I’m starting to realize it’s not the fans wanting the best for Sonic but wanting what’s comfortable for them until they get tired and repeat this argument again but in reverse. I don’t think this is crazy to say but this “either or” shit really needs to leave this fandom.
While I would absolutely hate the Boost formula becoming the only 3D formula to ever exist for Sonic, I still find it fun. It's just that momentum is the gameplay that defined Sonic for a very long time, just abandoning it forever in 3D would mean that a lot of incredible games would've not been made.
I mean it kinda is the only thing. The last Adventure style game that was made was like nearly 20 years ago.
Me personally, I don’t think the boost formula needs to be retired entirely, but there needs to be some more variety. Sonic in the 2000’s covered so many genres and gameplay types, but for the past ten years it’s been a solid 80% boost.
Maybe because 90% of what sonic made in the 2000 was hated by everyone
@ Because it was cool to hate on good games back then. Sonic and the Black Knight is near universally loved nowadays, the cult following for Shadow The Hedgehog has grown into a sizable fanbase, people like the Werehog stages in Unleashed now, there’s no end of love for a lot of the side games, and there’s even people (me) who like Sonic ‘06. For some reason everyone thought it would be so hip and trendy to pretend literally every Sonic game that wasn’t on the Sega Genesis was bad. You even had people like Projared back in the day trying to gaslight people into thinking that they only THOUGHT they liked Sonic Adventure 2, when they really only liked the Sonic/Shadow stages, which was not true.
I think Kishimoto himself has said he wants to ditch the boost in favor of the spindash for the next big game
It's time for 'Lost world' kind of Sonic games, you say? 🤪
I mean at least their creating this more open level design style and not just boosting in a straight line, so if they advance in this I think removing boost won't be necessary.
It think both momentum and boost could compliment each other by using Sonic UnWiished you need to keep on running than you get more speed
The problem is have with removing the boost is Sonic fans have to deal with drastically switching gameplay all the time. At least boost has been consistent and been getting improved kind of. Most inconsistent in rise and fall.
I prefer Heroes gameplay being improved or espesically adventure. Even 06. 06 is bad but it is a good blueprint. I have seen many mods and fan games that look like great new directions too. But there are just as many people mad about inconsistent gameplay and character writing
I personally think they need to give the adventure style another try.
I think it's notable that basically every boost game has very notable compromises, like the werehog or classic sonic that exist because a game that's purely the boost formula in 3D isn't cost effective to make. I kinda think Sega needs to rethink the formula not in terms of controls, but in terms of the actual structure of the game like Mario 64 did all the way back in the day.
(Maybe frontiers did this, I haven't played it.)
I don't get this point, it's not like we've ever had a pure adventure game with only speed levels so why do people keep repeating this.
@AYTM1200 You're right in saying that this point also applies to the adventure games. I would guess that people don't bring this up because the adventure formula has been dead for like a decade.
I would also guess that people bring up development costs with the boost formula more often because, by coincidence, it just happens that the boost formula started being a thing right when HD game development was getting going and game development started getting more expensive every year.
What you opinion about shadow generations?
great game! not as good as the original but easily my one of my favorite 3d sonic games
The boost imo needs to take a back seat for a good while it's reached NSMB fatigue atp when playing Shadow Gens I go wow this is fun but man this game would be so much better with pinball physics based gameplay because everything feels kinda basic like the rails they all feel the same atp just go left and right like it's Subway Surfers. Pinball Physics based gameplay would allow them to do way more creative and interesting things with the level design.
They could bring back the "boostmentum" from Sonic Advance 2. As long as they dont bring back god awful trash like SA2's mech stages, Unleashed's werehog stages, or Frontiers' combat, they can make a good game.
Some people are tried of the boost outright while I dont agree I do understand, Some people like me feel like after Sonic Gens when they clearly had the best vision for the boost to platforming ratio the next game should have been that perfect Boost game with all new levels and such but Izuka threw it all out the window because he wanted something different despite fan sentiment at the time, and then you have the rest falling somewhere between out right hate for all things boost/automation and indifference to it all.