Personally I think whether a game's story is "canon" shouldn't really affect whether it's considered "Mainline" or not. Sonic Riders for example is canon to the lore, as characters like Jet the Hawk have since been seen and mentioned in other canon material, yet I think we can all agree Riders is a spinoff (Edit: This comment was originally about Spinball, but Riders is probably a less divisive example)
@@ShockedCreeper NiGHTS is referenced ALOT in sonic games, but its obviously not canon to sonic itself, bean machine is referenced in sonic mania & thats canon, despite aosth connections, so id say spinball bein canon aint 2 out there, but i also tend not 2 think abt it since its so complicated, not to mention sonic riders being canon implying ALOT for the series… surprising archie mostly aint canon [except for abraham towers’ name] considering a whole game was based off it [chronicles], but idw directly ties to main series… but that’s not relevant
Agree with the Mainline/Canon distinction, but Spinball cannot be canon. It has more than 7 Chaos Emeralds, which is not a thing in the Game Universe as a whole. Fortunately, it IS still part of a larger mythos... the Archieverse. _That_ world _does_ have more than 7 Emeralds, or at least it did at the time this game was released. Something about an event combining all Emeralds of each color into one apiece (and they're all a proper Dark Blue here!). Fighters isn't so lucky. Not only does it have more than 7 Emeralds, the extra one isn't a proper color.
@@lepacs14 jan misali's video "how many super mario games are there now?" had a segment about them trying to say that i am a teacher super mario sweater is technically a mainline super mario game
It still boggles my mind how games like Sonic 1, SA2, Sonic Lost World, Sonic Heroes, Sonic Frontiers and Sonic 06 all take place in the same universe and timeline, despite how different they all are regarding tone, story, lore and art style.
Yeah that's one of my issues with the franchise as well. Because the franchise has tried to rebrand & soft reboot itself so many times, the overall tone and aesthetic identity gets muddled. Is Sonic a series that takes place on Mobius, some other fictitious world or Earth proper? The classic era games took place in abstracted, other-worldy locations with Eggman being the only human. The Adventure series shifts to more grounded, real-world locations where other humans exist. Complete with modern government agencies and militias chasing our heroes. The anti-indrustrialist / pro-environment theming is dropped as Eggman's plans change to a more generic "take over the world" rather than the "turn all woodland creatures" into robot slaves". Sonic Heroes and the Advance series were a "return to roots" attempt, so the other-worldy stage designs came back. Shadow 05 went for a dark, gritty tone so the real-world setting more-or-less came back with some Sonic Heroes type stages thrown in. Sonic 06 looks like it takes place in a Final Fantasy setting. The Sonic Riders series has a futuristic setting. Like almost each game takes place in a separate world disconnected from previous titles. Each with a look & feel that would clash with the rest.
@@GnidelAgree, i lovee the variety that this series has, it gives each game a unique feeling to it in gameplay, story, etc. For example: it's not a good idea to play Shadow the Hedgehog as if it was Sonic Adventure, cause it's more probable that you'll end up disliking the game. Yeah, at lot people say it's pure inconsistency, but that's one of my favorite things from this franchise. Like, if i wanted the samw game every time, i would play Call of Duty XD
That's why it's easier to stop trying to piece the lore together when it seems like SEGA and Sonic Team can't make up their mind on when they want it to connect or not. They don't care until it matters for the story of the current game they're making, so neither should you. Seriously, it's easier that way. Don't let the new "Sonic lore team" they threw together fool you either. They do not care and never have until it became convenient for them to do so.
@@Gnidel You can experiment and have a consistent set of established lore that flows well. You don't have to shill for Sega by calling it a "strength" (lol) when they've made multiple attempts to soft reboot that all amount to nothing because even they can't make up their minds on what Sonic lore should be.
Sonic CD is basically Sonic 1.5, S3&K is just one game. Shadow the hedgehog and shadow generations are just lore expansions, and the already confirmed mania is canon in the timeline.
Shadow's og game is a mainline game. Why? Because its a direct sequel to Heroes story about Shadow and bridges the gap from Heroes to 06. Basically its a spin-off that isn't.
For me personally, I see the following games as the "mainline sonic games" -Sonic 1 -Sonic CD -Sonic 2 -Sonic 3&K -Sonic Adventure -Sonic Advenutre 2 -Sonic Heroes -Sonic Advance Trilogy -Shadow the Hedgehog -Sonic 06 -Sonic Rush Duology -Sonic Unleashed -Sonic Storybook Series (Secret Rings/Black Knight) -Sonic Colours -Sonic Generations -Sonic Lost World -Sonic Mania -Sonic Forces -Sonic Frontiers -Sonic Superstars -Shadow Generations I think it's fair to consider these ones "mainline". They have Sonic as the protagonist (for the most part), follow the main 2D/3D formula, and usually have story elements which are important to the overall narrative. These are the ones that make the most sense to me, and if we go by the "must be Sonic Team created only"... then you knock off Sonic 2 and 3&K off the list lol
@@wifiwaifu5243 I agree with this list, but I would also put Riders in there Obviously, it doesn't really fit most of the requirements/ fit the model other games have, but I consider Mainline to mean Canon, and Jet and the Babylon Riders have been mentioned in the series later on Apart from that, I would agree this is the perfect mainline list
@@AAlex-wg8ml Yeah you could argue Riders and Battle fit in because they are canon, but they don't share anything with the main idea of Sonic gameplay (Platformer) so I chose to pass
I do consider Sonic Superstars to be a mainline Sonic game, as it is a part of the classic Sonic series, and was developed by a few returning members of Sonic Team as well, such as Naoto Oshima. Canonically, this game takes place between Sonic Mania and Sonic Adventure.
One entry i’m surprised got omitted is the Sonic Rush duology. It’s the first introduction of the reoccurring character Blaze. Made by Dimps as was Sonic 4, but fulfilled the platformer and ‘sonic in title’ criteria.
@@The_Real_Raidou I'm serious. Team Sonic Racing was actually pretty fun. The only nitpick I have is that the cast of characters wasn't very good. They replaced Cream with Chao and Vector was paired with Silver and Blaze for some reason. I also wish that they had Infinite instead of Zavok cause Zavok would never race. Yeah, Infinite wouldn't either but it would be more believable.
as a real answer; the franchise has been long established as non-linear due to the sheer number of time related distortions, alternative dimensions, parallel dimensions, sub dimensions, B plots, story injections, straight up erasing of entire realities, paradoxes, and so much more... Assuming main"line" exists when there explicitly cannot be any *line* to begin with is definitely a choice. Every game exists on a corkboard, and there are millions of lines connecting everything together in a disgusting mess of a web where picking any one line in particular to call it "main" (be it developer, intent, gameplay style, fan-reception, etc) will mainline-ize some games, but will demainline-ize others. In reality it really doesn't matter WHAT """mainline""" is, when literally everything has its ties TO that """mainline""" Everything is canon. Sonic R Sweep. Tip your servers. Eat more Kale.
Another question is what you consider the portable games to be. The rush, advance, and (most of) the game gear sub series are all high enough quality to stand alongside the console entries, to the point where I remember there being a debate around the release of Sonic 4 of whether or not Advance 1 should’ve been considered the ‘real’ Sonic 4. Plus, most of these were made in at the very least a collaboration with Sonic Team. Also, we gotta at least decide which versions of these games are gonna be considered. For example, is Wii Unleashed different enough to be its own game? What about DS colors, which is practically a third Rush game mechanically speaking. Idrk. I’d be interested if you put together a poll like Jan Misali did for Mario. I’d vote on it, and would be interested to see what others say
true, everything is canon but just quz a sonic game isen't mainline doesen't mean its not canon, mainline means the most important streamline games of the hole frenchise!
I consider Rush mainline myself. Even as a handheld game it did a lot for the series, it introduced the boost formula, it introduced the fan favorite Blaze the Cat and her lore, and arguable its story was a pretty big deal considering the nature of colliding dimensions.
@@johnshea7871 and technically they are, but some of the entries work as part of the chain of events of the main games, mostly Sonic Advance 2 and Rush, for the reasons I stated. So spiritually, they might as well be mainline.
@@ORLY911 Do you claim Rush Adventure to be a spinoff? and same for Sonic Battle and Advance 3 despite the latter 2 having Emerl in it. (Also Sonic the Hedgehog for 360 and PS3 went against the established backstory of Blaze as well as well as ignoring the other games's events as well as the title being the same as the original game was done because the game was meant to be a reboot but Crisis City appears in Generations and Shadow Generations has Kingdom valley and Mephiles which goes against the whole reboot thing)
@@johnshea7871 Rush Adventure is more self contained and just builds off the first Rush, so i would call it a spinoff. Im not as familiar with Advance 3 and Battle myself, but I do consider both to have that spirit of continuity they were going for at the time. As for 06, well it was just a dang mess wasnt it? It is still mainline and its "canon" in the sense Soleanna, Mephiles, Iblis, Silver, Elise are still characters in the main timeline, just the games events retcon themselves as per its ending. as rough as it was it was still a hyped release and contributed a lot to the mythos of the series and for better or worse, some gameplay mechanics that would later be more refined. The whole thing with Blaze though does give the impression it might take place before Sonic Rush, even if its just a means to explain why Blazes backstory was so different; that her sealing iblis inside her is what created the Sol Dimension, I think Ian Flynn mentioned something about that.
My stance is that there are two branches of mainline Sonic: "A-Tier" and "B-Tier" The A-Tier games, the ones that are more mainline, are: Sonic the Hedgehog (16-Bit) Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (16-Bit) Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles Sonic Adventure Sonic Adventure 2 Sonic Heroes Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) Sonic Unleashed (HD) Sonic Colors (Console) Sonic Generations (Console) Sonic Lost World (Console) Sonic Forces Sonic Frontiers The B-Tier games are: Sonic the Hedgehog (8-Bit) Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (8-Bit) Sonic Chaos Sonic Triple Trouble Knuckles' Chaotix Sonic 3D Blast Sonic Blast Sonic Pocket Adventure Sonic Advance Sonic Advance 2 Sonic Advance 3 Sonic Rush Sonic Rivals Sonic and the Secret Rings Sonic Rush Adventure Sonic Rivals 2 Sonic Unleashed (Wii) Sonic and the Black Knight Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I Sonic Colors (DS) Sonic Generations (3DS) Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode II Sonic Lost World (3DS) Sonic Dream Team And then there's the games I don't know which of these two categories to put in: Sonic CD Shadow the Hedgehog Sonic Mania Sonic Superstars Shadow Generations
9:23 Still makes me wonder how the Japanese side handled Silver. Rivals was NEVER localized and released for Japan. So, in their perspective, did Silver just randomly appeared in Colors DS and acted like he knows Sonic already? Did anyone who completed Shadow Generations have Rivals' story as unlockable on the collection room?
I mean, it depends on what we consider to make a game mainline. After the "Everything is Canon" it's a bit difficult to include that as a part of it, so it should probably mostly be about the importance of the game and how much of the pattern is being followed, this way we should consider every modern game that's not "boost formula" a spín off, eliminating collections, shadow, mania and superstars, and arguably generations. Really, I think that "mainline" is just a stand in for bigger budget games, and feels like a bit of an unnecesary distinction from a franchise like Sonic, that has such an expanded universe that generally tries to make itself interconnected, or separate adventures that don't tend to influence each other.
It'd be neat if you made a survey where ppl can vote on which games they consider mainline and which ones they don't, like the Mario video that inspired this. Because I imagine that reading the comments and trying to make a consensus out of that would be a nightmare lol
I think for me there are two factors that determine if a Sonic game can be considered mainline: how it plays and whether it's a "secondary" version of a game. I consider a game a secondary version if it's a port of a game to a weaker system but involves significant enough changes to be its own thing. Examples of such games are the 8-bit (Game Gear / Master System) versions of Sonic 1 and 2, and Sonic Generations on the 3DS. The requirement that it plays like a typical Sonic platformer eliminates games like the Storybook series, Sonic Spinball, etc. Shadow 05 is on weird, shaky ground here because the sonic-style gameplay is there but also massively changed by the 3rd person shooter elements, but I tend to let it count anyway just because I actually unironically love that game even if it is messier than a triple-stuffed chili dog. This is still a pretty big list of games though, so it might be worth it to require the games to have been released on a major home console. This would eliminate the remaining handheld games like Sonic Advance, Sonic Rush, Sonic Triple Trouble, etc. If we want to narrow it down still further, we're forced to look beyond the games and examine how Sega treated them. If it was a big tent-pole game that Sega really tried to advertise and push, then it's mainline.
my new year's resolution for 2020 was to go back and replay all the mainline sonic games, which only led to a year-long conversation and debate with just about everyone i know with an interest in sonic games as to what gets to count and should be included. turns out, it really doesn't matter, and "mainline" isn't a real thing. it's just a word that we as fans throw around at anything that fits the vibe at the moment. sonic and the secret rings, for example, was once nothing more than the sonic game on the wii, and was confirmed canon by (the original script of) sonic generations. it also belongs to the storybook series, which is a distinct series, but only got its name with the release of sonic and the black knight. shadow the hedgehog (2005) is also canon, iterates on the story, controls, and mission structure from sonic heroes, but on the other hand you play as shadow and shoot guns. but other games that often get the "mainline" title have playable characters that are not sonic and have one-off mechanics that don't appear again; 11 of the 12 playable characters in sonic heroes are not sonic, there are shooting mechanics in both sonic adventure 1 and 2, and the nighttime stages of sonic unleashed are a much greater departure of the usual platforming and combat mechanics than anything in shadow the hedgehog (2005). the fact of the matter is that mainline as a label doesn't actually hold any weight. all sonic games are sonic games, discussions of what gets to be called mainline more or less boil down to arguments as to which games should be excluded from the conversation. especially with sega's recent tendency to rewrite sonic's history with projects like sonic origins and sonic x shadow generations, games that today are universally considered mainline are subject to being removed from the list for the sake of whatever new things may come out in the future.
Why would having Sonic not being the main protagonist make the game a spin-off? There are tons of franchises that have different protagonists for every instalment
@@FTN_Ale The game is most def mainline. There's no question. It's made as a big release after heroes by ST. Sonic not bein the main focus didn't matter to ST it was made as a mainline title
Ok then well “by definition” every single Mario game after the 1983 Mario Bros. arcade game is a spinoff because every game after is part of the *Super* Mario Bros. line of games. This is the “is a hotdog a sandwich” of video game arguments.
@nightlydata2181 that's not not really true, the game was not advertised as a mainline title. It was advertised as a spinoff after Heroes. Sega made polls/surveys for potential spinoffs, In that poll shadow won. And we had shadow 05. Sonic 06 was in pre-production phase and ideas were being made for the next generation big 3D sonic game. If Shadow 05 was positively received by the masses i believe we would've gotten more spinoffs in the style of 05 with other characters. (However that last part is mostly speculation) but because it received mixed reception, and was a side game to test the waters for more character potential spinoffs in the same vein as the Mario franchise, have multiple character focused spinoffs like Yoshi, Luigi, Wario that didn't happened. As you can see 06 did terribly, and this part is also kind of speculation but im pretty sure if Silver was recieved well he would have gotten his own game like Shadow 05. But because 06 was received mostly negative at the time we only got games with just Sonic, and Tails (and occasionally Knuckles and Amy). Anyways for these reasons I don't consider it mainline.
The game was made by Sonic Team, directly follows the story of Heroes and SA2, and continues into other games. It doesn't matter that Sonic isn't played, that isn't how spinoffs work, it isn't dependent on who you play as. The same applies to Shadow Gens.
To summarize my thoughts: Sonic Team's involvement is unimportant. It needs to be released by Sega, but not necessarily Sonic Team. The game must be canon to be mainline, but that alone doesn't guarantee it. The gameplay must be similar enough to either the OG Trilogy, Adventure 1+2, or Unleashed+Colors+Generations to count. Story significance affects how important this is. Public reception is completely irrelevant. There are mainline games that deserve to be hated, but mainline they remain. Public awareness IS important. If most people who play Sonic don't know a game exists, it can't be mainline. This is the only point that may be open to interpretation. Handheld versions of mainline games are NOT mainline. Heck, they aren't even canon unless it's a completely different story! With that, here's my list: Sonic 1, CD, 2, 3&K. While there are a lot more games in this era, they either aren't platformers, change too much, or are on the niche Game Gear (or even more niche consoles) and thus aren't known enough to count. Adventure 1, 2, Heroes, Shadow '05, Sonic '06. The argument for Shadow is in the video already, and the rest are unambiguous. Advance 1-3, Rush, Rush Adventure, Sonic 4. These all either play similarly to the Classic era, or have a prototype Boost system. It works differently than what we'd consider a "Boost" game, but the pieces were added gradually, as a natural development (plus Blaze is in OG Generations, so...). Unleashed, Colors, Generations (Sonic), Mania, Forces, Frontiers, Superstars, Generations (Shadow). These are either the "Boost" games, clearly Classic games, or in Frontiers's case so _significantly_ story relevant that it would be crazy to discount it even if that's the only game of that style. All games I haven't mentioned are NOT mainline for one reason or another... usually because of either gameplay or obscurity. Yes, this includes Lost World. While they might have originally _intended_ it to be the new "style" for mainline to follow, it has no story significance and said style was completely dropped due to backlash. It remains canon, but not mainline.
@richtersundeen6105 The isometric nature is too much of a departure from normal gameplay. I'd disagree about it not being good though, it's probably the best Sonic of the era outside of the core trilogy (and maybe better than the original).
Sonic 06 was a reboot. Everything that happened before Sonic 06 is its own self-contained canon. Everything that happened in Sonic 06 and after Sonic 06 is an entirely separate canon to that original canon.
@@Jade_Geode Pre-06 is canon to 06/post-06, but 06/post 06 is not canon to pre-06. The pre-06 canon is self-contained and ends before 06, but the 06/post-06 canon can include pre-06 canon as part of its canon. It's like the Old and New Testament for Jews and Christians. Christians think the New Testament is canon and includes the Old Testament canon as part of its canon, but the Jews only consider the Old Testament canon and do not consider the New Testament to be part of the canon the Old Testament exists in the way Christians do.
its made by fans but its an official sonic game apposed to like sonic p-06 which isint official (LIKE FOR EXAMPLE: mania was a big release and acknowledged by Sega and sonic team)
I choose to believe that every game aside from mobile games and games like Sonic Schoolhouse and the Olympic Games and non-canon games (chronicles, boom, etc.) are mainline. This is due to the fact that they all combine into Sonic’s world’s story (games like Sonic Rush adds the Sol Dimension, Sonic Rivals adds the Ifrit, Sonic Battke adds the gizoid, etc.)
Sonic is one of the very few things that allows for headcanon to coexist with canon. Problem is that the line is blurred out immensely. And asking yourself after a while can result in collision chaos.
Imo my list is: Sonic 1 Sonic 1 GG Sonic 2 GG Sonic 2 Sonic CD Sonic Chaos Sonic 3K Sonic Triple Trouble 3D Blast Blast Adventure 1 Adventure 2 Advance Advance 2 Heroes Advance 3 Rush 06 Rush Adventure Unleashed (Xbox 360) 4 Colors (Wii) Generations (Xbox 360) Lost World (Wii U) Mania Forces Frontiers Superstars Dream Team
I feel like a good way to determine what Sonic games are mainline is trying to decipher a timeline, trying to make sense of it all, and games that first introduce characters to the franchise that would appear in more crucial games are also considered, regardless if they were developed by Sonic Team or not. I think it would go something like this: - Sonic The Hedgehog - Sonic CD - Sonic The Hedgehog 2 - Sonic The Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles - SegaSonic The Hedgehog - Sonic X Shadow Generations (Classic's perspective) - Knuckles' Chaotix - Sonic The Fighters - Sonic Mania - Sonic Forces (Classic's perspective) - Sonic Mania (Encore Mode) - Sonic Superstars - Sonic Advance - Sonic Advance 2 - Sonic Adventure DX: Director's Cut - Sonic Adventure 2 - Sonic Heroes - Shadow The Hedgehog - Sonic Battle - Sonic Advance 3 - Sonic '06 - Sonic & The Secret Rings - Sonic Rush - Sonic Rivals - Sonic Rivals 2 - Sonic Unleashed - Sonic & The Black Knight - Sonic Colors DS - Sonic X Shadow Generations - Sonic Lost World - Sonic Forces - Team Sonic Racing - Sonic Frontiers - Sonic Dream Team
It's weird to pin point what makes it 'mainline'. I think if it has a knock on effect of the over arching story (Sonic meets Tails in Sonic 2 and has known him ever since) then that is one of the points to make a game 'mainline'.
@@TheZMaster507 story shouldn't take precedence for wut is considered mainline for sonic. If sonic rebooted & never met tails that game would still have to be mainline based on ST's intentions & certain criteria the game was made under
@tomhossain2099 well mostly, but some characters have partial memory (well enough for characters that aren't directly from Soleana to remember each other aside from Blaze)
Sonic and the Secret Rings was marketed as THE big mainline Sonic game for 2007 and as the first Wii Sonic game. It wasn’t until Black Knight where they marketed it as its own side series
My list of mainline games is: -Sonic 1 -Sonic 2 -Sonic CD -Sonic 3 & Knuckles (one game) -Sonic Adventure -Sonic Adventure 2 -Sonic Heroes -Shadow the Hedgehog -Sonic ‘06 -Sonic and the Secret Rings -Sonic Unleashed -Sonic and the Black knight -Sonic colors -Sonic Generations -Sonic Lost World -Sonic Mania -Sonic Forces -Sonic Frontiers -Sonic Superstars -Shadow Generations (by itself) However I think that some games should be in another category that is separate from spinoff: -Knuckles’ Chaotix -Sonic Advance -Sonic Advance 2 -Sonic Advance 3 -Sonic Rush -Sonic Rush Adventure -Sonic Unleashed (Wii version) -Sonic Colors (DS version) -Sonic Generations (3DS version) -Sonic Lost World (3DS version) -Sonic Dream Team
@JustCallMeRaito there can’t be games that happen between 2 (16 bit) and 3k because 3k takes place directly after and that’s why Sonic has the chaos emeralds at the start and 2 (8 bit) and chaos take place on South Island with 6 chaos emeralds so those can go between CD and 2 (16 bit), but also games don’t have to be mainline to be canon
I count Mainline Sonic games as follows: - Sonic 1 - Sonic CD - Sonic 2 - Sonic 3&K - SA1 - SA2 - Heroes - 2006 - Unleashed - Colours - Generations - Lost World - Forces - Frontiers I am prefer to count mainline as “Sonic Team developed platformers that continue to build on previous ideas”. It can still use mechanics from side games (3D Blast, Rush, Mania), but for the most part it keeps to itself. Despite this, I consider these 4 games almost mainline: - Shadow 2005 - Secret Rings - Black Knight - Shadow Generations The Shadow games (Yes I count his campaign in Gens as a full game) play as essentially another Sonic game, even with Shadow 05’s guns, vehicles and other oddities. The only reason I don’t count them as mainline is because they are actively put to the side as a Shadow game first and foremost. The other two are also distinctly apart from the mainline series due to the games’ label as “Storybook Games”. However, they (Specifically Secret Rings) set the basis for the Boost formula from a design standpoint.
Mania's ending directly leads into a mainline game, and the phantom ruby is also an essential plot point in the next game. I consider it to be a mainline game
If you remember the elevator from the first trailer of Sonic Mania, you can see that there is no "4" button. The elevator covers Sonic 1, CD, 2, 3, Knuckles and then Mania. So by that pretty much sets it about Sonic 4 not being mainline.
The Advance trilogy also fits the "2/3 rule". Not developed by Sonic Team, BUT they are 2D platformers like the classic games, Advance 2 is the in-universe introduction of Cream & Cheese who later show up in Heroes, and Advance 3's story acts as a sequel to Battle, which also fits this rule.
9:47 yes because in the IDW comics which is canon to the game reference a sonic form from secret rings which would make it canon which would make it mainline
I think that the amount of consoles that the game is available on also helps. The original genesis games have been ported or remade so many times that you can now play them on every modern console, and adventure/adventure 2 are available on most modern devices. Heroes released on all of the current generation of consoles etc etc.
On the official Sonic Instagram, there’s a birthday post with a picture of a cake with all the games I think Sega considers mainline, besides Generations.
Amd shadow 05 thanks to Shadow generations, but that also means that battle should be included since the events are also referenced in that game albeit in the Gerald diary
I personally don’t think whether or not the game has contributed to the overall sonic story should determine whether or not it is mainline. Sonic riders and team sonic racing were both confirmed and sonic frontiers, and yet they obviously should not be considered because they are obviously spin offs.
I remember back in the late '00s where both of the Storybook games were almost unquestionably seen ss mainline, and then post-generations the entire community seemingly flipped a switch and considered them spinoffs. I personally don't consider them mainline, but it was so weird seeing that shift happen out of nowhere. Personally I'm a fan of the list you came to + Shadow 05. I'd also include Superstars if we're including Mania. Shadow Generations is a bit iffy imo, since it's a similar case with Bowser's Fury which also has a big debate on its mainline-ness.
That shift always weird. They def were intended to be mainline & in a lot of ways still R. Mania & superstars r def not meant to be mainline. They're smaller hold overs for the bigger ACTUALLY mainline release. Jus look at Shadgens as a part of sonic gens. Which it is. It's 1 big package which is mainline as Generations.
Here's my mainline list. Might be slightly controversial. - Sonic 1 - Sonic 2 - Sonic CD - Sonic 3&K - Sonic 3D - Sonic Adventure - Sonic Adventure 2 - Sonic Heroes - Shadow the Hedgehog - Sonic 06 - Sonic Unleashed - Sonic Colors - Sonic Generations - Sonic Lost World - Sonic Mania - Sonic Forces - Sonic Frontiers - Sonic Superstars - Shadow Generations
I personally categorize mainline titles under 2 rules: Rule 1.) If said games have level representation in Generations (both versions) Rule 2.) If it's a title released after Gens, it is a console release that's not an obvious spinoff (no Boom, no TSR, no Olympics) With that said, this gives us 17 mainline titles: Sonic 1 Sonic 2 Sonic CD Sonic 3&K Sonic Adventure Sonic Adventure 2 Sonic Heroes Sonic Rush Sonic 06 Sonic Unleashed Sonic Colors Sonic Generations (Shadow Gens doesn't count since it's part of Gens story, basically a new campaign) Sonic Lost World Sonic Mania Sonic Forces Sonic Frontiers Sonic Superstars
Minimal list of mainline Sonic games (absolute necessities): Sonic the Hedgehog 1 Sonic the Hedgehog CD Sonic the Hedgehog 2 Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles Sonic Adventure 1 Sonic Adventure 2 Sonic Heroes Shadow the Hedgehog Sonic '06 Sonic Unleashed Sonic Colors Sonic Generations Sonic Lost World Sonic Forces Sonic Frontiers Shadow Generations Expanded list of mainline Sonic games (everything that directly ties into the series narrative and has gameplay derivative of the standard gameplay elements): Sonic the Hedgehog 1 Sonic the Hedgehog CD Sonic the Hedgehog 2 Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles Sonic 3D Blast Sonic R Sonic Adventure 1 Sonic Adventure 2 Sonic Advance 1 Sonic Advance 2 Sonic Heroes Shadow the Hedgehog Sonic Battle Sonic Advance 3 Sonic '06 Sonic Rush 1 Sonic Rush 2 Adventure Sonic Rivals 1 Sonic Rivals 2 Sonic Riders 1 Sonic Riders 2 Zero Gravity Sonic and Secret Rings Sonic Unleashed Sonic Unleashed Wii Sonic and Black Knight Sonic Colors Sonic Colors DS Sonic Generations Sonic Generations 3DS Sonic Free Riders Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Ep 1 Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Ep 2 Sonic Lost World Sonic Lost World 3DS Sonic Mania Sonic Forces Sonic Frontiers Sonic Superstars Shadow Generations there ya go :)
Shadow generations will be counted as a mainline entry it’s just bundled with a port of sonic generations. On paper sonic Mania is not a mainline but because it’s soo good and so faithful I consider it apart especially since it came after lost world and sonic boom. My rule if it is a console platformer with a big release it’s probably mainline
I think the biggest point against Sonic 4 being mainline is that it wasn't even released physically Sonic Advance, Battle, Rivals, Rush aren't mainline for being handheld games, otherwise one would have to count all the 8 bit games and Pocket Adventure too... Although the Master System is kind of a home console I guess you could disqualify them for redundancy which would only leave Sonic Blast, luckily it was developed by Aspect as opposed to Sonic Team so you can exclude it based on that and on vibes
It is tricky, I consider it a case by case basis. For me, I consider the mainline games to be: Sonic the Hedgehog Sonic the Hedgehog 2 Sonic CD Sonic 3 & Knuckles Sonic Adventure Sonic Adventure 2 Sonic Advance Sonic Advance 2 Sonic Heroes Sonic Advance 3 Shadow the Hedgehog Sonic Rush Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) Sonic Rush Adventure Sonic Unleashed Sonic Colors Sonic Generations Sonic Lost World Sonic Mania Sonic Forces Sonic Frontiers Sonic Superstars Shadow Generations I went with these because all of them play generally like you’d expect Sonic platformers to and all are canon to the main timeline to some degree. Even Shadow 05 generally has the same gameplay formula as other entries at its core. I opted to include the Advance and Rush series because both of them introduced characters and/or ideas that would become mainstays in the franchise, Cream, Blaze, the boost formula, etc. I also included Shadow Generations since it presents itself as its own game in the main menu so I think it can count. As for the omissions, I left out the Storybook games as they generally play different and hold little to no bearing on the rest of the series. Like I said tho, it’s a tricky scenario. I can totally understand why someone would agree with my list.
Id consider Mainline as 1 CD 2 3&K Adventure Adventure 2 Heroes Shadow '06 Unleashed Colours Generations Mania Forces Frontiers Remakes / Remasters simply fit in the same spot as thier original (SXSG is the same as Generations in terms of the count) I give Mania a pass since its concepts and gameplay mechanics are preserved in both frontiers and forces. Same with Shadow for Shadow Gens as well as being Shadows character arc. I havent played Superstars to have a say on it, but i feel saying that is mainline also allows Triple Trouble to be allowed in
1.Consistence with the canon (don’t be contradicted for future or obviously mainline games) 2.Contribute to the canon 3.Dont be a spinoff (this one can be breaked if there’s enough evidence that’s canon) 4.Idk
since nowadays we know that most sonic games are canon to a single verse, i think that mainline for me is almost exclusively for the gameplay and who developed it (with a superstars shaped exception), making my list: - 1, CD, 2, 3&K - Adventure 1 and 2 - Heroes - Shadow - 06 - the storybook games - Unleashed - Colors - Gens - Lost world - Mania - Forces - Fronties - Superstars - Shadow gens (to clarify, i dont think you need to be a mainline game to be canon)
I personally think there’s a difference between canonicity and mainline, I feel some of the examples you brought up (Secret Rings and Rivals in particular) ARE canon, but not necessarily mainline, in fact, I could apply that to Team Sonic Racing as well, as it canonically exist within the timeline and is mentioned in frontiers. I’d only really consider the mainline titles to be the main title released within its respective year/years, I.e. I consider the main classic trilogy, CD, Mania, Superstars, the adventure games, heroes, Shadow, 06, the boost games, Lost World, Frontiers AND Shadow Gens, all mainline, while games like TSR and Rivals are canon to the timeline, just not mainline releases.
I personally count Shadow Generations as canon, not because it ties into Sonic Generations, but because it is an expansion of the game, similar to Sonic and Knuckles for Sonic 3
Sonic 1 Sonic 2 Sonic CD Sonic 3 & Knuckles Sonic Adventure Sonic Adventure 2 Sonic Heroes Shadow the Hedgehog Sonic 06 Sonic Unleashed Sonic Colours Sonic Generations Sonic Lost World Sonic Mania Sonic Forces Sonic Frontiers Sonic Superstars Shadow Generations
The answer for SXSG is this: Sonic Generations is mainline Shadow Generations is mainline Sonic X Shadow Generations is a compilation of the two. I do the same thing for Bowser's Fury.
I think what makes a game «Mainline» or not is dependent on how it plays, who developed it, and how significant it is to the franchise. If it’s a platformer with emphasis on speed and sometimes precision platforming, was made by a notable developer, or introduces important characters, mechanics or locations, it’s mainline. If a game can fill all or almost all, but barely miss out on one, I consider them Mainline. For example, Sonic Adventure fills all the criteria by introducing characters like Gamma and Big, being made by Sonic Team having important/reappearing places like Station Square, Emerald Coast and the Mystic Ruins and introducing important mechanics like the Light Speed Dash and the Air Dash.
Personally my list is Sonic 1 Sonic 2 Sonic CD Sonic 3 Sonic & Knuckles Sonic Adventure Sonic Adventure 2 Sonic Advance Sonic Advance 2 Sonic Heroes Sonic Advance 3 Shadow 05 Sonic Rush Sonic 06 Sonic & the Secret Rings Sonic Rush Adventure Sonic Unleashed Sonic & the Black Knight Sonic 4: Ep I Sonic Colours Sonic Generations Sonic 4: Ep II Sonic Lost World Sonic Mania Sonic Forces Sonic Frontiers Sonic Superstars Shadow Generations
My personal thoughts on what the "mainline" Sonic games are would be: Sonic 1, Sonic 2, Sonic 3 & Knuckles (one game), Sonic CD), Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes, Sonic 06, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colors, Sonic Generations (& Shadow Generations as one game), Sonic Lost World, Sonic Mania, Sonic Forces, Sonic Frontiers, Sonic Dream Team, and Sonic Superstars. I don't think character debut is really a prerequisite for mainline status, because while Silver does *technically* debut in Sonic Rivals, Blaze debuts in Rush and Cream debuts in Advance 2, who both go on to appear in mainline games after, which are both not often regarded as mainline games. Granted, that may be because both are handheld games, and tend to be considered their own subseries between Rush and Advance. The same goes for Sonic and the Secret Rings; while I can't imagine it was initially conceived as a spin-off because it does feel as though they intended it to be a mainline game, them retroactively making it its own subseries as part of the "Storybook Series" with Black Knight was likely them no longer considering it mainline. Though ultimately, I don't think it's necessarily important whether or not a Sonic game is "mainline," not as much as Mario games are, as most Sonic games are canon to the lore of the franchise. Games that definitely are not considered mainline such as SegaSonic, Knuckles' Chaotix, Triple Trouble, Sonic the Fighters, Sonic Rush, Sonic Advance, etc. all introduced characters that would continue to appear in later installments that are at least debated to some degree as being canon. Not only does Sonic Battle add to the franchise lore, but Sonic Advance 3 directly connects to it, meaning the Advance games also add to the franchise lore in some significant way outside of just character debuts. That's not even getting into the Riders games, which aren't even close to resembling any of the other games in terms of gameplay but are apparently important enough that the Babylon Rogues repeatedly return in spin-offs and even got their own individual character profiles on the Sonic Channel website. (As do Emerl, Marine, and Eggman Nega, all also from spin-off games! And Sticks, too.)
Sonic 1, 2 CD, 3K, Adventure 1 and 2, Heroes, '06, Unleashed, Colors, Generations, Lost World, Forces, and Frontiers are all of the mainline games. There are all of the big Sonic Team releases made throughout the years. For the record, just because something is a spin-off doesn't mean it isn't canon. If we're talking canon games, this list would be much bigger. I don't know why its so complicated for people to understand that the small-scale filler releases aren't on the same level as the big *mainline* releases.
It's very easy and imo shouldn't even be a debate. All major releases that got treated as a big deal with mass appeal, all large productions, all direct continuations of stories, all numerical releases and all "c'mon, of course it is" type of games. In rough chronological order: S1, CD, S2, S3&K, Mania, Superstars, S4:EP1, S4:EP2, Adventure, Adventure 2, Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, 06, Unleashed, Colors, Generations (including SxS), Lost World, Forces and Frontiers. Rise of Lyric checks almost all requirements as well, being a major release, however since it's not part of the main continuity it's better off being mentioned on its own for convenience. EVERYTHING else is a spin-off. It's very common for people to dismiss S4 and Shadow the Hedgehog but I find that very disingenuous and fundamentally flawed, because some or most think they're subpar products doesn't affect their mainline status. S4 being numerical solidifies it automatically, Shadow the Hedgehog is so mainline I can't but stare in shock whenever I hear otherwise, it checks every criteria there is.
A few things. 3d Blast expands the lore by introducing and explaining the flickies powering Robotnik's badnik army and explains the warp ring portals used to enter special stages on sonic 1 and 3&K. Advance trilogy introduced Cream prior to Heroes and established her friendship with Team Sonic & Amy. Knuckles Chaotix takes place after 3&K just like 3d Blast, and is the first official appearance of Team Chaotix & 2nd showing of Mighty.
Sonic 1, Sonic 2, Sonic CD, Sonic 3/Sonic and Knuckles, Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes, Shadow, Sonic 06, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colors, Sonic Generations, Sonic Lost World, Sonic Mania, Sonic Forces, Sonic Frontiers, Sonic Superstars and Shadow Generations
Ok, while i agree with the main 15/16 you initially chose, along with shadow 05 and superstars I also consider the main handheld games mainline (game gear, pocket adventure, advance, rush, ds/3ds counterparts), along with 3d blast and knuckles chaotix.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Mania was a sequel paradox as a result of Generations but before Forces which can even explain why there's the phantom ruby with a remix of past stages. He's even referred to as from another Dimension and uses the Homing attack he learned from Generations on the final boss in Forces. No surprise if Superstars is a sequel to that which can explain why the Shadow suit is a literal skin suit. This is actually a smart way to keep classic Sonic going alongside the modern era.
Even after watching the video trying to define what is mainline is so difficult. Being canon and mainline are somehow both synonymous and also not at the same time. Battle and Rush are pretty widely seen as spin-offs I believe yet they’re canon because of all the Emerl stuff (which has been brought back with the Dark Beginnings prologue) and literally Blaze’s whole character. Tldr defining mainline is lowkey a headache lol. For my own takes, I’d say the stuff mentioned in the beginning of the video would be mainline while also including Shadow 05 (which you did), Mania, and SxSG. I feel like Shadow Gens was written in a way that it keeps the original Gens intact enough to where it wouldn’t really be robbing it of mainline status. Also speaking on Rivals being Silver’s game introduction outside of 06, it’s really weird to think about since 06 did technically happen even if it was erased/reset. I say this because of Mephiles’s boss battle where he still has the memories of the game, so Silver in rivals wouldn’t really be that important to include? Idk man someone else commented the series’s events are a mess and I’m with him on that 😂 just hope this added even a little bit to the discussion
I'm currently in the process of constructing my personal lineup of Sonic games I consider to be mainline, but I will admit, as I tend to try and include as many games as I can within some level of reason, and because I'm still early in constructing it, some of my inclusions might come across as a tad wild. I'd say it actually functions more as a timeline at the moment. Anyway, there are at least a few particular inclusions that I think should definitely be more widely accepted as mainline for various reasons: -Knuckles' Chaotix, Shadow the Hedgehog, and Shadow Generations (yes, specifially "Shadow Generations". I think of it like I think of the Super Mario series where I list "Super Mario 3D World" and a few entries later "Bowser's Fury" where I single out the secondary new game included in the package as a distinct entry to the series. In this case, there's "Sonic Generations" and "Shadow Generations"): I think simply playing as a different character than Sonic isn't enough to disqualify these games, considering that many games involve playing as various characters. They otherwise play fundamentally like other definitely mainline Sonic games. -SegaSonic, Chaos, Triple Trouble, Blast, Pocket Adventure, Advance 1-3, Battle, Rush & Rush Adventure, Rivals 1 & 2, and Dream Team: I don't think being on a non-traditional home console should disqualify a game from being mainline. It's just another platform that another game was released on and the exclusion is arbitrary. Battle is included for story reasons. 8-Bit 2 should probably also be included for story reasons regarding it being a predecessor to 2 16-Bit. I guess 1 8-Bit could also be included as, storywise, it could just happen right before or after 1 16-Bit and not conflict with anything. I don't include Colors DS, Generations 3DS, and Lost World 3DS as those games' existence (I think) conflicts with the existence of their home console counterparts. -3D Blast, Secret Rings, Black Knight, and 4 Episode I & II: Reasons to exclude all of these always feel weak to me. Being developed by somebody else doesn't stop the fact that Sega is ultimately the party responsible for Sonic game releases. Also, 3D Blast not coming to Japan for a while means nothing. If it did, Rondo of Blood wouldn't be a mainline Castlevania game, and anyone who knows anything about that series should realize how ridiculous of a notion that would be. As for the Storybook duology, a game series can experience genre shifts sometimes (also Castlevania with Symphony of the Night and recently Final Fantasy XVI) and still continue with mainline games, and the Storybook duology isn't even that drastic of a shift. Regarding 4 Episode I & II, the simple fact of the matter is that they're games officially given to us that are called Sonic 4, end of story. I think the next Sonic game after all those that I'd prioritize fighting for inclusion next is Labyrinth for a combination of the last 2 reasons, but I might be willing to concede that the lack of a jump button is a step too far away as a deviation from the standard genre of the mainline Sonic series (that being said, Battle is a fighting game and I still include it). One last thought, and I'm probably preaching to the choir now, but just because you think a game is bad, doesn't mean it isn't mainline. That's stupid.
Sega themselves admited that EVERY Sonic game was made with the intention of being part of a timeline (which I'm making, I'll send the link here when I finish it or your next video). So even Sonic 4 is mainline because every game is connected with each other.
For the Sonic X Shadow Generations debacle, you could just have the two campaigns count as their own game. Sonic Generations and Shadow Generations would be their own games in that case.
@@evolutioner8573 But in the end didn't leave a impact in the Mario World, there's no King Wart conquering Subcon nor saving each King of the other Kingdoms, because neither actually exist
@@gamemax1049 true but King wart actually exists, he is playeble in the mario baseball games. + a dream exists out all things combined that you have seen in real life. So yeah the stage play actually happend as a stage play in the mario world and mario has indeed dreamed once about smb2 so yeah, they are all canon just not the way you think it would.
I would personally consider Secret Rings, Black Knight & Superstars (as well as Shadow '05 & Shadow Generations although this was mentioned in the video) a part of the "Mainline" series as they were all big releases on popular platforms despite Superstars being made by Arzest and not by Sonic Team as they were working on Frontiers' DLC and Shadow Gens and have had a greater impact on the franchise that's more than a spinoff would have had. Impact is a another factor to consider when putting games into the "Mainline" category whether that be a positive, neutral or negative effect on the series. You could also say Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric is "Mainline" as well being a big game release and a 3D platformer, but due to how different Boom is compared to the main gameplay of the series and also not developed by Sonic Team, it's kind of just doing its own thing and is kind of left in this grey-area of being important to the franchise as a whole due to the second dark age of the 2010's starting with this but also being a complete spin on the character's and their world, being a explorative slow-paced platformer with many whacky gimmicks attached to it that Sonic usually doesn't do. Reminds me very much with how Sonic CD was seen compared to the rest of the classic Mega Drive games with it doing its own thing but still being a sort of big release at the time.
My list: Sonic 1,2,CD,3K,Chaotix, the Advance Trilogy, Adventure dx & 2, Heroes, Shadow 05, S06, Sonic Rush, Unleashed, Colors, Sonic x Shadow Generations, lost world, Mania , Forces, Frontiers, SuperStars.
I honestly feel like to be mainline, you just need the story to tie in with the main plot of sonic's lore. The classic era (1 up until mania), i would consider mainline. They take place the earliest in the series so they dont need to follow a plot. ( I honestly dont have an answer when it comes to superstars) The adventure era, SA1 until shadow 05, i would also consider mainline. SA1 started of by giving the characters more of a character. SA2 introduced shadow and rouge, but shadow is definitely the focus, with a lot mystery surrounding at the time, with heroes and shadow 05 explioring more of shadow's past The modern era, sonic 06 until frontiers is also mainline in my opinion. the exceptions are, sonic 4 episode 1 and 2, those never really had a story, and before you say it's a follow up to the classic games, it uses modern sonic's design and even sonic 3 had a little story through their in game cutscenes. I'm not really sure where these belongs in those 3 categories so im just giving them their own category storybook games, i don't feel like they're really expanding more on the sonic canon and aren't meant to be mainline. sonic rivals, i would consider the first one canon since it reintroduced silver back to the series, i'm still conflicted about rivals 2 The same goes for sonic rush, i feel like the first one is mainline, introducing blaze, but I'm also not sure about the rush adventure If there's anything you disagree with, something i said wrong, or something i missed. Please tell me
Personally I think whether a game's story is "canon" shouldn't really affect whether it's considered "Mainline" or not.
Sonic Riders for example is canon to the lore, as characters like Jet the Hawk have since been seen and mentioned in other canon material, yet I think we can all agree Riders is a spinoff
(Edit: This comment was originally about Spinball, but Riders is probably a less divisive example)
Didn't spinball have SATAM characters though? So wouldn't it be non canon
Origins is canon?
@@ShockedCreeper NiGHTS is referenced ALOT in sonic games, but its obviously not canon to sonic itself, bean machine is referenced in sonic mania & thats canon, despite aosth connections, so id say spinball bein canon aint 2 out there, but i also tend not 2 think abt it since its so complicated, not to mention sonic riders being canon implying ALOT for the series…
surprising archie mostly aint canon [except for abraham towers’ name] considering a whole game was based off it [chronicles], but idw directly ties to main series… but that’s not relevant
Agree with the Mainline/Canon distinction, but Spinball cannot be canon. It has more than 7 Chaos Emeralds, which is not a thing in the Game Universe as a whole. Fortunately, it IS still part of a larger mythos... the Archieverse. _That_ world _does_ have more than 7 Emeralds, or at least it did at the time this game was released. Something about an event combining all Emeralds of each color into one apiece (and they're all a proper Dark Blue here!).
Fighters isn't so lucky. Not only does it have more than 7 Emeralds, the extra one isn't a proper color.
Spinball kinda breaks canon if it's included because it has a lot more emeralds than usual and they're all the same color.
I am a Teacher: Super Mario Sweater is a mainline installment in the Sonic The Hedgehog series.
As a Nintendo employee, I can confirm that Super Mario Sweater is indeed a mainline Sonic the Hedgehog game.
And it’s the best in the series!
I don't get the joke
@@lepacs14 jan misali's video "how many super mario games are there now?" had a segment about them trying to say that i am a teacher super mario sweater is technically a mainline super mario game
As a sonic fan i can also confirm that “Super Mario Sweater” is very much a main line sonic game.
It still boggles my mind how games like Sonic 1, SA2, Sonic Lost World, Sonic Heroes, Sonic Frontiers and Sonic 06 all take place in the same universe and timeline, despite how different they all are regarding tone, story, lore and art style.
Yeah that's one of my issues with the franchise as well. Because the franchise has tried to rebrand & soft reboot itself so many times, the overall tone and aesthetic identity gets muddled.
Is Sonic a series that takes place on Mobius, some other fictitious world or Earth proper?
The classic era games took place in abstracted, other-worldy locations with Eggman being the only human.
The Adventure series shifts to more grounded, real-world locations where other humans exist. Complete with modern government agencies and militias chasing our heroes. The anti-indrustrialist / pro-environment theming is dropped as Eggman's plans change to a more generic "take over the world" rather than the "turn all woodland creatures" into robot slaves".
Sonic Heroes and the Advance series were a "return to roots" attempt, so the other-worldy stage designs came back.
Shadow 05 went for a dark, gritty tone so the real-world setting more-or-less came back with some Sonic Heroes type stages thrown in.
Sonic 06 looks like it takes place in a Final Fantasy setting. The Sonic Riders series has a futuristic setting.
Like almost each game takes place in a separate world disconnected from previous titles. Each with a look & feel that would clash with the rest.
@@MrOzzificationYou call it an issue, but I consider it the strength of the series. I love that it isn't stale and isn't afraid of experimentation.
@@GnidelAgree, i lovee the variety that this series has, it gives each game a unique feeling to it in gameplay, story, etc. For example: it's not a good idea to play Shadow the Hedgehog as if it was Sonic Adventure, cause it's more probable that you'll end up disliking the game. Yeah, at lot people say it's pure inconsistency, but that's one of my favorite things from this franchise. Like, if i wanted the samw game every time, i would play Call of Duty XD
That's why it's easier to stop trying to piece the lore together when it seems like SEGA and Sonic Team can't make up their mind on when they want it to connect or not. They don't care until it matters for the story of the current game they're making, so neither should you. Seriously, it's easier that way. Don't let the new "Sonic lore team" they threw together fool you either. They do not care and never have until it became convenient for them to do so.
@@Gnidel You can experiment and have a consistent set of established lore that flows well. You don't have to shill for Sega by calling it a "strength" (lol) when they've made multiple attempts to soft reboot that all amount to nothing because even they can't make up their minds on what Sonic lore should be.
Don't worry man, I don't know as well. what I know is that:
SONIC IS A GIANT MESS OF A FRANCHISE
Being a Mario Franchise
As tails said in Frontiers “Wildly Inconsistent“
Same with Mario, what's mainline there?
If you think sonic is a mess, just you wait until you try understanding BOMBERMAN
Sonic CD is basically Sonic 1.5, S3&K is just one game.
Shadow the hedgehog and shadow generations are just lore expansions, and the already confirmed mania is canon in the timeline.
I say that is true
Shadow's og game is a mainline game. Why? Because its a direct sequel to Heroes story about Shadow and bridges the gap from Heroes to 06. Basically its a spin-off that isn't.
@@thaneros Secret Rings and Black Knight are just spin-offs
And sonic 4?
@@FernandoFernandesNascimento That is a spinoff
For me personally, I see the following games as the "mainline sonic games"
-Sonic 1
-Sonic CD
-Sonic 2
-Sonic 3&K
-Sonic Adventure
-Sonic Advenutre 2
-Sonic Heroes
-Sonic Advance Trilogy
-Shadow the Hedgehog
-Sonic 06
-Sonic Rush Duology
-Sonic Unleashed
-Sonic Storybook Series (Secret Rings/Black Knight)
-Sonic Colours
-Sonic Generations
-Sonic Lost World
-Sonic Mania
-Sonic Forces
-Sonic Frontiers
-Sonic Superstars
-Shadow Generations
I think it's fair to consider these ones "mainline". They have Sonic as the protagonist (for the most part), follow the main 2D/3D formula, and usually have story elements which are important to the overall narrative.
These are the ones that make the most sense to me, and if we go by the "must be Sonic Team created only"... then you knock off Sonic 2 and 3&K off the list lol
I agree.
"Sonic Team Only" was never a rule in the video, it was "Sonic Team primarily, or Sonic team must have at least had a large hand in it".
@@syweb2 True, but figured I'd state my thoughts just in case
@@wifiwaifu5243 I agree with this list, but I would also put Riders in there
Obviously, it doesn't really fit most of the requirements/ fit the model other games have, but I consider Mainline to mean Canon, and Jet and the Babylon Riders have been mentioned in the series later on
Apart from that, I would agree this is the perfect mainline list
@@AAlex-wg8ml Yeah you could argue Riders and Battle fit in because they are canon, but they don't share anything with the main idea of Sonic gameplay (Platformer) so I chose to pass
I do consider Sonic Superstars to be a mainline Sonic game, as it is a part of the classic Sonic series, and was developed by a few returning members of Sonic Team as well, such as Naoto Oshima. Canonically, this game takes place between Sonic Mania and Sonic Adventure.
I agree. It's basically Mania 2, so either both are mainline or neither.
Oshima is credited as a character designer (Trip) and producer. Most of development was just Sonic Team as always.
And then the next game before adventure
One entry i’m surprised got omitted is the Sonic Rush duology. It’s the first introduction of the reoccurring character Blaze. Made by Dimps as was Sonic 4, but fulfilled the platformer and ‘sonic in title’ criteria.
Sonic Rush and Sonic Rush Adventure are seen as spin-offs and same for the Storybook games
@@johnshea7871 that are canon to the series
Mainline is the line you want it to be. It was the sonics whose adventures shuffled our hearts the most.
Sonic Shuffle
Team Sonic Racing is mainline then
@@FruitSnax911 Exactly! Now you are getting it.
@@The_Real_Raidou I'm serious. Team Sonic Racing was actually pretty fun. The only nitpick I have is that the cast of characters wasn't very good. They replaced Cream with Chao and Vector was paired with Silver and Blaze for some reason. I also wish that they had Infinite instead of Zavok cause Zavok would never race. Yeah, Infinite wouldn't either but it would be more believable.
@ I really like it cause metal sonic is in it. And he is my favorite sonic character.
Diogenes, holding up a copy of NiGHTS into Dreams:
"BEHOLD! A MAINLINE SONIC GAME!" 👴🏻🐤
as a real answer;
the franchise has been long established as non-linear due to the sheer number of time related distortions, alternative dimensions, parallel dimensions, sub dimensions, B plots, story injections, straight up erasing of entire realities, paradoxes, and so much more...
Assuming main"line" exists when there explicitly cannot be any *line* to begin with is definitely a choice. Every game exists on a corkboard, and there are millions of lines connecting everything together in a disgusting mess of a web where picking any one line in particular to call it "main" (be it developer, intent, gameplay style, fan-reception, etc) will mainline-ize some games, but will demainline-ize others. In reality it really doesn't matter WHAT """mainline""" is, when literally everything has its ties TO that """mainline"""
Everything is canon. Sonic R Sweep. Tip your servers. Eat more Kale.
Another question is what you consider the portable games to be. The rush, advance, and (most of) the game gear sub series are all high enough quality to stand alongside the console entries, to the point where I remember there being a debate around the release of Sonic 4 of whether or not Advance 1 should’ve been considered the ‘real’ Sonic 4. Plus, most of these were made in at the very least a collaboration with Sonic Team.
Also, we gotta at least decide which versions of these games are gonna be considered. For example, is Wii Unleashed different enough to be its own game? What about DS colors, which is practically a third Rush game mechanically speaking.
Idrk.
I’d be interested if you put together a poll like Jan Misali did for Mario. I’d vote on it, and would be interested to see what others say
yeah he should def do a poll.
Everything is canon
This is going to old
From: a bob-omb
true, everything is canon but just quz a sonic game isen't mainline doesen't mean its not canon, mainline means the most important streamline games of the hole frenchise!
@@evolutioner8573 that was a joke
Sonic’s schoolhouse
8:46 most of the people working on mania were from sonic team, it fullfils the 3 requierements (it also ties up to forces)
Mania wasn't worked on by Sonic Team
I consider Rush mainline myself. Even as a handheld game it did a lot for the series, it introduced the boost formula, it introduced the fan favorite Blaze the Cat and her lore, and arguable its story was a pretty big deal considering the nature of colliding dimensions.
But many fans consider the handheld Sonic games to be spin-offs
@@johnshea7871 and technically they are, but some of the entries work as part of the chain of events of the main games, mostly Sonic Advance 2 and Rush, for the reasons I stated. So spiritually, they might as well be mainline.
@@ORLY911 Do you claim Rush Adventure to be a spinoff? and same for Sonic Battle and Advance 3 despite the latter 2 having Emerl in it. (Also Sonic the Hedgehog for 360 and PS3 went against the established backstory of Blaze as well as well as ignoring the other games's events as well as the title being the same as the original game was done because the game was meant to be a reboot but Crisis City appears in Generations and Shadow Generations has Kingdom valley and Mephiles which goes against the whole reboot thing)
@@johnshea7871 Rush Adventure is more self contained and just builds off the first Rush, so i would call it a spinoff. Im not as familiar with Advance 3 and Battle myself, but I do consider both to have that spirit of continuity they were going for at the time. As for 06, well it was just a dang mess wasnt it? It is still mainline and its "canon" in the sense Soleanna, Mephiles, Iblis, Silver, Elise are still characters in the main timeline, just the games events retcon themselves as per its ending. as rough as it was it was still a hyped release and contributed a lot to the mythos of the series and for better or worse, some gameplay mechanics that would later be more refined.
The whole thing with Blaze though does give the impression it might take place before Sonic Rush, even if its just a means to explain why Blazes backstory was so different; that her sealing iblis inside her is what created the Sol Dimension, I think Ian Flynn mentioned something about that.
@@ORLY911 Also Blaze remembers Crisis City in Ken Pontac and Warren Graft's script of Generations
Mainline in my Opinion: Sonic 1, CD, 2, 3K, Adventure, Adventure 2, Advance (all 3), Rush, Rush Adventure, Heroes, Shadow 05, 06, Unleashed, Colors, Generations (including Shadow), Lost World, Mania, Forces, Frontiers, Dream Team and Superstars.
Rivals?
@ That feels more like a Spin off to me.
Correct opinion, very close to what my list would be.
@@zqhiidrivals is a race game
@@lukchem it's cannon though
3:17 TO THIS DAY I STILL DON'T BELIEVE IT BEFORE SONIC 2 NEVER EVER
the advance and rush games are mainline to me
Yeah. 👍
They might as well be, they had big contributions to characters, lore and mechanics.
Same
Lots of input from Sega and sonic team, lots of lore additions, and the addition of blaze who has been main-cast since 06
he mentioned the conlang dude(jan misali) the video is peak
My stance is that there are two branches of mainline Sonic: "A-Tier" and "B-Tier"
The A-Tier games, the ones that are more mainline, are:
Sonic the Hedgehog (16-Bit)
Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (16-Bit)
Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles
Sonic Adventure
Sonic Adventure 2
Sonic Heroes
Sonic the Hedgehog (2006)
Sonic Unleashed (HD)
Sonic Colors (Console)
Sonic Generations (Console)
Sonic Lost World (Console)
Sonic Forces
Sonic Frontiers
The B-Tier games are:
Sonic the Hedgehog (8-Bit)
Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (8-Bit)
Sonic Chaos
Sonic Triple Trouble
Knuckles' Chaotix
Sonic 3D Blast
Sonic Blast
Sonic Pocket Adventure
Sonic Advance
Sonic Advance 2
Sonic Advance 3
Sonic Rush
Sonic Rivals
Sonic and the Secret Rings
Sonic Rush Adventure
Sonic Rivals 2
Sonic Unleashed (Wii)
Sonic and the Black Knight
Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I
Sonic Colors (DS)
Sonic Generations (3DS)
Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode II
Sonic Lost World (3DS)
Sonic Dream Team
And then there's the games I don't know which of these two categories to put in:
Sonic CD
Shadow the Hedgehog
Sonic Mania
Sonic Superstars
Shadow Generations
9:23 Still makes me wonder how the Japanese side handled Silver. Rivals was NEVER localized and released for Japan. So, in their perspective, did Silver just randomly appeared in Colors DS and acted like he knows Sonic already? Did anyone who completed Shadow Generations have Rivals' story as unlockable on the collection room?
I mean, it depends on what we consider to make a game mainline.
After the "Everything is Canon" it's a bit difficult to include that as a part of it, so it should probably mostly be about the importance of the game and how much of the pattern is being followed, this way we should consider every modern game that's not "boost formula" a spín off, eliminating collections, shadow, mania and superstars, and arguably generations.
Really, I think that "mainline" is just a stand in for bigger budget games, and feels like a bit of an unnecesary distinction from a franchise like Sonic, that has such an expanded universe that generally tries to make itself interconnected, or separate adventures that don't tend to influence each other.
"Everything is Canon" ~ Sonic the Hedgehog
When it comes to lore, most of them have continuity with each other so yeah most games are canon lore wise.
That's it.
It'd be neat if you made a survey where ppl can vote on which games they consider mainline and which ones they don't, like the Mario video that inspired this. Because I imagine that reading the comments and trying to make a consensus out of that would be a nightmare lol
I think for me there are two factors that determine if a Sonic game can be considered mainline: how it plays and whether it's a "secondary" version of a game. I consider a game a secondary version if it's a port of a game to a weaker system but involves significant enough changes to be its own thing. Examples of such games are the 8-bit (Game Gear / Master System) versions of Sonic 1 and 2, and Sonic Generations on the 3DS. The requirement that it plays like a typical Sonic platformer eliminates games like the Storybook series, Sonic Spinball, etc. Shadow 05 is on weird, shaky ground here because the sonic-style gameplay is there but also massively changed by the 3rd person shooter elements, but I tend to let it count anyway just because I actually unironically love that game even if it is messier than a triple-stuffed chili dog.
This is still a pretty big list of games though, so it might be worth it to require the games to have been released on a major home console. This would eliminate the remaining handheld games like Sonic Advance, Sonic Rush, Sonic Triple Trouble, etc. If we want to narrow it down still further, we're forced to look beyond the games and examine how Sega treated them. If it was a big tent-pole game that Sega really tried to advertise and push, then it's mainline.
don't worry guys, we'll know for sure once Sonic Star Allies releases on Decebruarembergust 353645nd, -56.78 AD
my new year's resolution for 2020 was to go back and replay all the mainline sonic games, which only led to a year-long conversation and debate with just about everyone i know with an interest in sonic games as to what gets to count and should be included. turns out, it really doesn't matter, and "mainline" isn't a real thing. it's just a word that we as fans throw around at anything that fits the vibe at the moment.
sonic and the secret rings, for example, was once nothing more than the sonic game on the wii, and was confirmed canon by (the original script of) sonic generations. it also belongs to the storybook series, which is a distinct series, but only got its name with the release of sonic and the black knight. shadow the hedgehog (2005) is also canon, iterates on the story, controls, and mission structure from sonic heroes, but on the other hand you play as shadow and shoot guns. but other games that often get the "mainline" title have playable characters that are not sonic and have one-off mechanics that don't appear again; 11 of the 12 playable characters in sonic heroes are not sonic, there are shooting mechanics in both sonic adventure 1 and 2, and the nighttime stages of sonic unleashed are a much greater departure of the usual platforming and combat mechanics than anything in shadow the hedgehog (2005).
the fact of the matter is that mainline as a label doesn't actually hold any weight. all sonic games are sonic games, discussions of what gets to be called mainline more or less boil down to arguments as to which games should be excluded from the conversation. especially with sega's recent tendency to rewrite sonic's history with projects like sonic origins and sonic x shadow generations, games that today are universally considered mainline are subject to being removed from the list for the sake of whatever new things may come out in the future.
I think we can all agree that Sonic’s entire timeline is a MESS
There are games that are worse, like mario and ubisoft universe
I normally don't go into that rabbit hole
Sonic Dreams Collection
Best one
Shadow the hedgehog is literally a spinoff, since Sonic is not the main character, while it's very important to the lore its by definition a spin-off
Why would having Sonic not being the main protagonist make the game a spin-off? There are tons of franchises that have different protagonists for every instalment
@@FTN_Ale The game is most def mainline. There's no question. It's made as a big release after heroes by ST. Sonic not bein the main focus didn't matter to ST it was made as a mainline title
Ok then well “by definition” every single Mario game after the 1983 Mario Bros. arcade game is a spinoff because every game after is part of the *Super* Mario Bros. line of games.
This is the “is a hotdog a sandwich” of video game arguments.
@nightlydata2181 that's not not really true, the game was not advertised as a mainline title. It was advertised as a spinoff after Heroes. Sega made polls/surveys for potential spinoffs, In that poll shadow won. And we had shadow 05. Sonic 06 was in pre-production phase and ideas were being made for the next generation big 3D sonic game. If Shadow 05 was positively received by the masses i believe we would've gotten more spinoffs in the style of 05 with other characters. (However that last part is mostly speculation) but because it received mixed reception, and was a side game to test the waters for more character potential spinoffs in the same vein as the Mario franchise, have multiple character focused spinoffs like Yoshi, Luigi, Wario that didn't happened.
As you can see 06 did terribly, and this part is also kind of speculation but im pretty sure if Silver was recieved well he would have gotten his own game like Shadow 05. But because 06 was received mostly negative at the time we only got games with just Sonic, and Tails (and occasionally Knuckles and Amy).
Anyways for these reasons I don't consider it mainline.
The game was made by Sonic Team, directly follows the story of Heroes and SA2, and continues into other games. It doesn't matter that Sonic isn't played, that isn't how spinoffs work, it isn't dependent on who you play as. The same applies to Shadow Gens.
To summarize my thoughts:
Sonic Team's involvement is unimportant. It needs to be released by Sega, but not necessarily Sonic Team.
The game must be canon to be mainline, but that alone doesn't guarantee it.
The gameplay must be similar enough to either the OG Trilogy, Adventure 1+2, or Unleashed+Colors+Generations to count. Story significance affects how important this is.
Public reception is completely irrelevant. There are mainline games that deserve to be hated, but mainline they remain.
Public awareness IS important. If most people who play Sonic don't know a game exists, it can't be mainline. This is the only point that may be open to interpretation.
Handheld versions of mainline games are NOT mainline. Heck, they aren't even canon unless it's a completely different story!
With that, here's my list:
Sonic 1, CD, 2, 3&K. While there are a lot more games in this era, they either aren't platformers, change too much, or are on the niche Game Gear (or even more niche consoles) and thus aren't known enough to count.
Adventure 1, 2, Heroes, Shadow '05, Sonic '06. The argument for Shadow is in the video already, and the rest are unambiguous.
Advance 1-3, Rush, Rush Adventure, Sonic 4. These all either play similarly to the Classic era, or have a prototype Boost system. It works differently than what we'd consider a "Boost" game, but the pieces were added gradually, as a natural development (plus Blaze is in OG Generations, so...).
Unleashed, Colors, Generations (Sonic), Mania, Forces, Frontiers, Superstars, Generations (Shadow). These are either the "Boost" games, clearly Classic games, or in Frontiers's case so _significantly_ story relevant that it would be crazy to discount it even if that's the only game of that style.
All games I haven't mentioned are NOT mainline for one reason or another... usually because of either gameplay or obscurity. Yes, this includes Lost World. While they might have originally _intended_ it to be the new "style" for mainline to follow, it has no story significance and said style was completely dropped due to backlash. It remains canon, but not mainline.
By your rules why does 3D Blast not count? It is definitely a "platformer," just not a very good one
@richtersundeen6105 The isometric nature is too much of a departure from normal gameplay.
I'd disagree about it not being good though, it's probably the best Sonic of the era outside of the core trilogy (and maybe better than the original).
@@ShadwSonic lost world not being mainline is pretty insane
Sonic 06 was a reboot. Everything that happened before Sonic 06 is its own self-contained canon. Everything that happened in Sonic 06 and after Sonic 06 is an entirely separate canon to that original canon.
Except the supposed during-and-post-06 canon acknowledges the events of the supposed pre-06 canon several times?
@@Jade_Geode Pre-06 is canon to 06/post-06, but 06/post 06 is not canon to pre-06. The pre-06 canon is self-contained and ends before 06, but the 06/post-06 canon can include pre-06 canon as part of its canon. It's like the Old and New Testament for Jews and Christians. Christians think the New Testament is canon and includes the Old Testament canon as part of its canon, but the Jews only consider the Old Testament canon and do not consider the New Testament to be part of the canon the Old Testament exists in the way Christians do.
How the hell is mania considered mainline when its FAN MADE
its made by fans but its an official sonic game apposed to like sonic p-06 which isint official (LIKE FOR EXAMPLE: mania was a big release and acknowledged by Sega and sonic team)
@ oh
I choose to believe that every game aside from mobile games and games like Sonic Schoolhouse and the Olympic Games and non-canon games (chronicles, boom, etc.) are mainline. This is due to the fact that they all combine into Sonic’s world’s story (games like Sonic Rush adds the Sol Dimension, Sonic Rivals adds the Ifrit, Sonic Battke adds the gizoid, etc.)
Sonic is one of the very few things that allows for headcanon to coexist with canon. Problem is that the line is blurred out immensely. And asking yourself after a while can result in collision chaos.
Imo my list is:
Sonic 1
Sonic 1 GG
Sonic 2 GG
Sonic 2
Sonic CD
Sonic Chaos
Sonic 3K
Sonic Triple Trouble
3D Blast
Blast
Adventure 1
Adventure 2
Advance
Advance 2
Heroes
Advance 3
Rush
06
Rush Adventure
Unleashed (Xbox 360)
4
Colors (Wii)
Generations (Xbox 360)
Lost World (Wii U)
Mania
Forces
Frontiers
Superstars
Dream Team
I feel like a good way to determine what Sonic games are mainline is trying to decipher a timeline, trying to make sense of it all, and games that first introduce characters to the franchise that would appear in more crucial games are also considered, regardless if they were developed by Sonic Team or not. I think it would go something like this:
- Sonic The Hedgehog
- Sonic CD
- Sonic The Hedgehog 2
- Sonic The Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles
- SegaSonic The Hedgehog
- Sonic X Shadow Generations (Classic's perspective)
- Knuckles' Chaotix
- Sonic The Fighters
- Sonic Mania
- Sonic Forces (Classic's perspective)
- Sonic Mania (Encore Mode)
- Sonic Superstars
- Sonic Advance
- Sonic Advance 2
- Sonic Adventure DX: Director's Cut
- Sonic Adventure 2
- Sonic Heroes
- Shadow The Hedgehog
- Sonic Battle
- Sonic Advance 3
- Sonic '06
- Sonic & The Secret Rings
- Sonic Rush
- Sonic Rivals
- Sonic Rivals 2
- Sonic Unleashed
- Sonic & The Black Knight
- Sonic Colors DS
- Sonic X Shadow Generations
- Sonic Lost World
- Sonic Forces
- Team Sonic Racing
- Sonic Frontiers
- Sonic Dream Team
Having played Sonic since the first one: There is a mainline?
It's weird to pin point what makes it 'mainline'. I think if it has a knock on effect of the over arching story (Sonic meets Tails in Sonic 2 and has known him ever since) then that is one of the points to make a game 'mainline'.
@@TheZMaster507 story shouldn't take precedence for wut is considered mainline for sonic. If sonic rebooted & never met tails that game would still have to be mainline based on ST's intentions & certain criteria the game was made under
@nightlydata2181 ye, I suppose that's true
So then is 06 *not* mainline since it erases itself at the end?
@tomhossain2099 well mostly, but some characters have partial memory (well enough for characters that aren't directly from Soleana to remember each other aside from Blaze)
I think the most important requirement for a mainline sonic game is that it expands the narrative in some way.
Sonic and the Secret Rings was marketed as THE big mainline Sonic game for 2007 and as the first Wii Sonic game. It wasn’t until Black Knight where they marketed it as its own side series
My list of mainline games is:
-Sonic 1
-Sonic 2
-Sonic CD
-Sonic 3 & Knuckles (one game)
-Sonic Adventure
-Sonic Adventure 2
-Sonic Heroes
-Shadow the Hedgehog
-Sonic ‘06
-Sonic and the Secret Rings
-Sonic Unleashed
-Sonic and the Black knight
-Sonic colors
-Sonic Generations
-Sonic Lost World
-Sonic Mania
-Sonic Forces
-Sonic Frontiers
-Sonic Superstars
-Shadow Generations (by itself)
However I think that some games should be in another category that is separate from spinoff:
-Knuckles’ Chaotix
-Sonic Advance
-Sonic Advance 2
-Sonic Advance 3
-Sonic Rush
-Sonic Rush Adventure
-Sonic Unleashed (Wii version)
-Sonic Colors (DS version)
-Sonic Generations (3DS version)
-Sonic Lost World (3DS version)
-Sonic Dream Team
@JustCallMeRaito I wouldn’t consider those mainline, chaos and triple trouble might go into the second category but I can’t really decide
@JustCallMeRaito there can’t be games that happen between 2 (16 bit) and 3k because 3k takes place directly after and that’s why Sonic has the chaos emeralds at the start and 2 (8 bit) and chaos take place on South Island with 6 chaos emeralds so those can go between CD and 2 (16 bit), but also games don’t have to be mainline to be canon
I count Mainline Sonic games as follows:
- Sonic 1
- Sonic CD
- Sonic 2
- Sonic 3&K
- SA1
- SA2
- Heroes
- 2006
- Unleashed
- Colours
- Generations
- Lost World
- Forces
- Frontiers
I am prefer to count mainline as “Sonic Team developed platformers that continue to build on previous ideas”. It can still use mechanics from side games (3D Blast, Rush, Mania), but for the most part it keeps to itself.
Despite this, I consider these 4 games almost mainline:
- Shadow 2005
- Secret Rings
- Black Knight
- Shadow Generations
The Shadow games (Yes I count his campaign in Gens as a full game) play as essentially another Sonic game, even with Shadow 05’s guns, vehicles and other oddities. The only reason I don’t count them as mainline is because they are actively put to the side as a Shadow game first and foremost. The other two are also distinctly apart from the mainline series due to the games’ label as “Storybook Games”. However, they (Specifically Secret Rings) set the basis for the Boost formula from a design standpoint.
Mania's ending directly leads into a mainline game, and the phantom ruby is also an essential plot point in the next game. I consider it to be a mainline game
If you remember the elevator from the first trailer of Sonic Mania, you can see that there is no "4" button. The elevator covers Sonic 1, CD, 2, 3, Knuckles and then Mania. So by that pretty much sets it about Sonic 4 not being mainline.
The Advance trilogy also fits the "2/3 rule". Not developed by Sonic Team, BUT they are 2D platformers like the classic games, Advance 2 is the in-universe introduction of Cream & Cheese who later show up in Heroes, and Advance 3's story acts as a sequel to Battle, which also fits this rule.
That's kind of a big question to ask... But, as the Sonic twitter a couple of years ago said: "everything is canon" lol
9:47 yes because in the IDW comics which is canon to the game reference a sonic form from secret rings which would make it canon which would make it mainline
I think that the amount of consoles that the game is available on also helps. The original genesis games have been ported or remade so many times that you can now play them on every modern console, and adventure/adventure 2 are available on most modern devices. Heroes released on all of the current generation of consoles etc etc.
On the official Sonic Instagram, there’s a birthday post with a picture of a cake with all the games I think Sega considers mainline, besides Generations.
Imo, the mainline games are:
The 16 mentioned at the start + the advance series, the rush games, the 5 8-bit sonic platformers and the storybook games
Amd shadow 05 thanks to Shadow generations, but that also means that battle should be included since the events are also referenced in that game albeit in the Gerald diary
@@carso1500 lore doesn't make somethin mainline & also outside of the Emerl lore battle isn't canon to the games
@@magolor-3100 the GBA, DS, 8-bit games, & mania r def not mainline. The storybook games R tho
@@nightlydata2181 do you have a source for that? Why wouldn't battle be canon?
@carso1500 canon≠mainline
I personally don’t think whether or not the game has contributed to the overall sonic story should determine whether or not it is mainline. Sonic riders and team sonic racing were both confirmed and sonic frontiers, and yet they obviously should not be considered because they are obviously spin offs.
I remember back in the late '00s where both of the Storybook games were almost unquestionably seen ss mainline, and then post-generations the entire community seemingly flipped a switch and considered them spinoffs. I personally don't consider them mainline, but it was so weird seeing that shift happen out of nowhere.
Personally I'm a fan of the list you came to + Shadow 05. I'd also include Superstars if we're including Mania. Shadow Generations is a bit iffy imo, since it's a similar case with Bowser's Fury which also has a big debate on its mainline-ness.
That shift always weird. They def were intended to be mainline & in a lot of ways still R. Mania & superstars r def not meant to be mainline. They're smaller hold overs for the bigger ACTUALLY mainline release. Jus look at Shadgens as a part of sonic gens. Which it is. It's 1 big package which is mainline as Generations.
Here's my mainline list. Might be slightly controversial.
- Sonic 1
- Sonic 2
- Sonic CD
- Sonic 3&K
- Sonic 3D
- Sonic Adventure
- Sonic Adventure 2
- Sonic Heroes
- Shadow the Hedgehog
- Sonic 06
- Sonic Unleashed
- Sonic Colors
- Sonic Generations
- Sonic Lost World
- Sonic Mania
- Sonic Forces
- Sonic Frontiers
- Sonic Superstars
- Shadow Generations
"Everything is canon"
I personally categorize mainline titles under 2 rules:
Rule 1.) If said games have level representation in Generations (both versions)
Rule 2.) If it's a title released after Gens, it is a console release that's not an obvious spinoff (no Boom, no TSR, no Olympics)
With that said, this gives us 17 mainline titles:
Sonic 1
Sonic 2
Sonic CD
Sonic 3&K
Sonic Adventure
Sonic Adventure 2
Sonic Heroes
Sonic Rush
Sonic 06
Sonic Unleashed
Sonic Colors
Sonic Generations (Shadow Gens doesn't count since it's part of Gens story, basically a new campaign)
Sonic Lost World
Sonic Mania
Sonic Forces
Sonic Frontiers
Sonic Superstars
Minimal list of mainline Sonic games (absolute necessities):
Sonic the Hedgehog 1
Sonic the Hedgehog CD
Sonic the Hedgehog 2
Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles
Sonic Adventure 1
Sonic Adventure 2
Sonic Heroes
Shadow the Hedgehog
Sonic '06
Sonic Unleashed
Sonic Colors
Sonic Generations
Sonic Lost World
Sonic Forces
Sonic Frontiers
Shadow Generations
Expanded list of mainline Sonic games (everything that directly ties into the series narrative and has gameplay derivative of the standard gameplay elements):
Sonic the Hedgehog 1
Sonic the Hedgehog CD
Sonic the Hedgehog 2
Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles
Sonic 3D Blast
Sonic R
Sonic Adventure 1
Sonic Adventure 2
Sonic Advance 1
Sonic Advance 2
Sonic Heroes
Shadow the Hedgehog
Sonic Battle
Sonic Advance 3
Sonic '06
Sonic Rush 1
Sonic Rush 2 Adventure
Sonic Rivals 1
Sonic Rivals 2
Sonic Riders 1
Sonic Riders 2 Zero Gravity
Sonic and Secret Rings
Sonic Unleashed
Sonic Unleashed Wii
Sonic and Black Knight
Sonic Colors
Sonic Colors DS
Sonic Generations
Sonic Generations 3DS
Sonic Free Riders
Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Ep 1
Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Ep 2
Sonic Lost World
Sonic Lost World 3DS
Sonic Mania
Sonic Forces
Sonic Frontiers
Sonic Superstars
Shadow Generations
there ya go :)
Shadow generations will be counted as a mainline entry it’s just bundled with a port of sonic generations. On paper sonic Mania is not a mainline but because it’s soo good and so faithful I consider it apart especially since it came after lost world and sonic boom. My rule if it is a console platformer with a big release it’s probably mainline
Pinmall, arcade and chaotix- the later two introduced several new characrers for a start...
I think the biggest point against Sonic 4 being mainline is that it wasn't even released physically
Sonic Advance, Battle, Rivals, Rush aren't mainline for being handheld games, otherwise one would have to count all the 8 bit games and Pocket Adventure too... Although the Master System is kind of a home console
I guess you could disqualify them for redundancy which would only leave Sonic Blast, luckily it was developed by Aspect as opposed to Sonic Team so you can exclude it based on that and on vibes
It is tricky, I consider it a case by case basis. For me, I consider the mainline games to be:
Sonic the Hedgehog
Sonic the Hedgehog 2
Sonic CD
Sonic 3 & Knuckles
Sonic Adventure
Sonic Adventure 2
Sonic Advance
Sonic Advance 2
Sonic Heroes
Sonic Advance 3
Shadow the Hedgehog
Sonic Rush
Sonic the Hedgehog (2006)
Sonic Rush Adventure
Sonic Unleashed
Sonic Colors
Sonic Generations
Sonic Lost World
Sonic Mania
Sonic Forces
Sonic Frontiers
Sonic Superstars
Shadow Generations
I went with these because all of them play generally like you’d expect Sonic platformers to and all are canon to the main timeline to some degree. Even Shadow 05 generally has the same gameplay formula as other entries at its core. I opted to include the Advance and Rush series because both of them introduced characters and/or ideas that would become mainstays in the franchise, Cream, Blaze, the boost formula, etc. I also included Shadow Generations since it presents itself as its own game in the main menu so I think it can count. As for the omissions, I left out the Storybook games as they generally play different and hold little to no bearing on the rest of the series. Like I said tho, it’s a tricky scenario. I can totally understand why someone would agree with my list.
a mainline Sonic game is a game that significantly moves the plot forward.
Id consider Mainline as
1
CD
2
3&K
Adventure
Adventure 2
Heroes
Shadow
'06
Unleashed
Colours
Generations
Mania
Forces
Frontiers
Remakes / Remasters simply fit in the same spot as thier original (SXSG is the same as Generations in terms of the count)
I give Mania a pass since its concepts and gameplay mechanics are preserved in both frontiers and forces. Same with Shadow for Shadow Gens as well as being Shadows character arc.
I havent played Superstars to have a say on it, but i feel saying that is mainline also allows Triple Trouble to be allowed in
The way I see it they're all canon as long as they fit with everything else
Mainline sonic games to me have to meet 2 criteria - 1 - it's a platformer - 2 - it continues, or references story elements/lore from previous games
0:54 what is a Mythos?
The canon
1.Consistence with the canon (don’t be contradicted for future or obviously mainline games)
2.Contribute to the canon
3.Dont be a spinoff (this one can be breaked if there’s enough evidence that’s canon)
4.Idk
since nowadays we know that most sonic games are canon to a single verse, i think that mainline for me is almost exclusively for the gameplay and who developed it (with a superstars shaped exception), making my list:
- 1, CD, 2, 3&K
- Adventure 1 and 2
- Heroes
- Shadow
- 06
- the storybook games
- Unleashed
- Colors
- Gens
- Lost world
- Mania
- Forces
- Fronties
- Superstars
- Shadow gens
(to clarify, i dont think you need to be a mainline game to be canon)
Sonic CD?
@njs9401 i forgor, thanks
I personally think there’s a difference between canonicity and mainline, I feel some of the examples you brought up (Secret Rings and Rivals in particular) ARE canon, but not necessarily mainline, in fact, I could apply that to Team Sonic Racing as well, as it canonically exist within the timeline and is mentioned in frontiers. I’d only really consider the mainline titles to be the main title released within its respective year/years,
I.e. I consider the main classic trilogy, CD, Mania, Superstars, the adventure games, heroes, Shadow, 06, the boost games, Lost World, Frontiers AND Shadow Gens, all mainline, while games like TSR and Rivals are canon to the timeline, just not mainline releases.
I agree with this
This is like going back to the "everything is canon" debate.
As Sega said “EVERYTHING IS CANON!”
I personally count Shadow Generations as canon, not because it ties into Sonic Generations, but because it is an expansion of the game, similar to Sonic and Knuckles for Sonic 3
Sonic 1
Sonic 2
Sonic CD
Sonic 3 & Knuckles
Sonic Adventure
Sonic Adventure 2
Sonic Heroes
Shadow the Hedgehog
Sonic 06
Sonic Unleashed
Sonic Colours
Sonic Generations
Sonic Lost World
Sonic Mania
Sonic Forces
Sonic Frontiers
Sonic Superstars
Shadow Generations
The answer for SXSG is this:
Sonic Generations is mainline
Shadow Generations is mainline
Sonic X Shadow Generations is a compilation of the two.
I do the same thing for Bowser's Fury.
I think what makes a game «Mainline» or not is dependent on how it plays, who developed it, and how significant it is to the franchise.
If it’s a platformer with emphasis on speed and sometimes precision platforming, was made by a notable developer, or introduces important characters, mechanics or locations, it’s mainline.
If a game can fill all or almost all, but barely miss out on one, I consider them Mainline.
For example, Sonic Adventure fills all the criteria by introducing characters like Gamma and Big, being made by Sonic Team having important/reappearing places like Station Square, Emerald Coast and the Mystic Ruins and introducing important mechanics like the Light Speed Dash and the Air Dash.
@kirotalksyt there's a difference between connon and mainline :itssonicover:
I personally like to think that Mania and Superstars exist in a separate timeline that branched for Classic Sonic after Generations.
Personally my list is
Sonic 1
Sonic 2
Sonic CD
Sonic 3
Sonic & Knuckles
Sonic Adventure
Sonic Adventure 2
Sonic Advance
Sonic Advance 2
Sonic Heroes
Sonic Advance 3
Shadow 05
Sonic Rush
Sonic 06
Sonic & the Secret Rings
Sonic Rush Adventure
Sonic Unleashed
Sonic & the Black Knight
Sonic 4: Ep I
Sonic Colours
Sonic Generations
Sonic 4: Ep II
Sonic Lost World
Sonic Mania
Sonic Forces
Sonic Frontiers
Sonic Superstars
Shadow Generations
My personal thoughts on what the "mainline" Sonic games are would be: Sonic 1, Sonic 2, Sonic 3 & Knuckles (one game), Sonic CD), Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes, Sonic 06, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colors, Sonic Generations (& Shadow Generations as one game), Sonic Lost World, Sonic Mania, Sonic Forces, Sonic Frontiers, Sonic Dream Team, and Sonic Superstars.
I don't think character debut is really a prerequisite for mainline status, because while Silver does *technically* debut in Sonic Rivals, Blaze debuts in Rush and Cream debuts in Advance 2, who both go on to appear in mainline games after, which are both not often regarded as mainline games. Granted, that may be because both are handheld games, and tend to be considered their own subseries between Rush and Advance. The same goes for Sonic and the Secret Rings; while I can't imagine it was initially conceived as a spin-off because it does feel as though they intended it to be a mainline game, them retroactively making it its own subseries as part of the "Storybook Series" with Black Knight was likely them no longer considering it mainline.
Though ultimately, I don't think it's necessarily important whether or not a Sonic game is "mainline," not as much as Mario games are, as most Sonic games are canon to the lore of the franchise. Games that definitely are not considered mainline such as SegaSonic, Knuckles' Chaotix, Triple Trouble, Sonic the Fighters, Sonic Rush, Sonic Advance, etc. all introduced characters that would continue to appear in later installments that are at least debated to some degree as being canon. Not only does Sonic Battle add to the franchise lore, but Sonic Advance 3 directly connects to it, meaning the Advance games also add to the franchise lore in some significant way outside of just character debuts. That's not even getting into the Riders games, which aren't even close to resembling any of the other games in terms of gameplay but are apparently important enough that the Babylon Rogues repeatedly return in spin-offs and even got their own individual character profiles on the Sonic Channel website. (As do Emerl, Marine, and Eggman Nega, all also from spin-off games! And Sticks, too.)
Sonic 1, 2 CD, 3K, Adventure 1 and 2, Heroes, '06, Unleashed, Colors, Generations, Lost World, Forces, and Frontiers are all of the mainline games. There are all of the big Sonic Team releases made throughout the years. For the record, just because something is a spin-off doesn't mean it isn't canon. If we're talking canon games, this list would be much bigger. I don't know why its so complicated for people to understand that the small-scale filler releases aren't on the same level as the big *mainline* releases.
This is a question i wish jan misali tackled sonic 3 sonic 3 and knuckles and sonic 3 and knuckles is such a screwy thing in terms of mainline stuff
It's very easy and imo shouldn't even be a debate. All major releases that got treated as a big deal with mass appeal, all large productions, all direct continuations of stories, all numerical releases and all "c'mon, of course it is" type of games.
In rough chronological order:
S1, CD, S2, S3&K, Mania, Superstars, S4:EP1, S4:EP2, Adventure, Adventure 2, Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, 06, Unleashed, Colors, Generations (including SxS), Lost World, Forces and Frontiers. Rise of Lyric checks almost all requirements as well, being a major release, however since it's not part of the main continuity it's better off being mentioned on its own for convenience. EVERYTHING else is a spin-off.
It's very common for people to dismiss S4 and Shadow the Hedgehog but I find that very disingenuous and fundamentally flawed, because some or most think they're subpar products doesn't affect their mainline status. S4 being numerical solidifies it automatically, Shadow the Hedgehog is so mainline I can't but stare in shock whenever I hear otherwise, it checks every criteria there is.
I like that Sonic 3&k is gaming equivalent to the godfather 1&2 debate
I knew this would be inspired by the Mario video.
I doubt they're thinking that hard about Mainline stuff.
A few things. 3d Blast expands the lore by introducing and explaining the flickies powering Robotnik's badnik army and explains the warp ring portals used to enter special stages on sonic 1 and 3&K. Advance trilogy introduced Cream prior to Heroes and established her friendship with Team Sonic & Amy. Knuckles Chaotix takes place after 3&K just like 3d Blast, and is the first official appearance of Team Chaotix & 2nd showing of Mighty.
Sonic 1, Sonic 2, Sonic CD, Sonic 3/Sonic and Knuckles, Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes, Shadow, Sonic 06, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colors, Sonic Generations, Sonic Lost World, Sonic Mania, Sonic Forces, Sonic Frontiers, Sonic Superstars and Shadow Generations
Sega: Everything is canon.
Ok, while i agree with the main 15/16 you initially chose, along with shadow 05 and superstars
I also consider the main handheld games mainline (game gear, pocket adventure, advance, rush, ds/3ds counterparts), along with 3d blast and knuckles chaotix.
It's better to not think about it too much
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Mania was a sequel paradox as a result of Generations but before Forces which can even explain why there's the phantom ruby with a remix of past stages. He's even referred to as from another Dimension and uses the Homing attack he learned from Generations on the final boss in Forces. No surprise if Superstars is a sequel to that which can explain why the Shadow suit is a literal skin suit. This is actually a smart way to keep classic Sonic going alongside the modern era.
Even after watching the video trying to define what is mainline is so difficult. Being canon and mainline are somehow both synonymous and also not at the same time. Battle and Rush are pretty widely seen as spin-offs I believe yet they’re canon because of all the Emerl stuff (which has been brought back with the Dark Beginnings prologue) and literally Blaze’s whole character. Tldr defining mainline is lowkey a headache lol.
For my own takes, I’d say the stuff mentioned in the beginning of the video would be mainline while also including Shadow 05 (which you did), Mania, and SxSG. I feel like Shadow Gens was written in a way that it keeps the original Gens intact enough to where it wouldn’t really be robbing it of mainline status.
Also speaking on Rivals being Silver’s game introduction outside of 06, it’s really weird to think about since 06 did technically happen even if it was erased/reset. I say this because of Mephiles’s boss battle where he still has the memories of the game, so Silver in rivals wouldn’t really be that important to include? Idk man someone else commented the series’s events are a mess and I’m with him on that 😂 just hope this added even a little bit to the discussion
I'm currently in the process of constructing my personal lineup of Sonic games I consider to be mainline, but I will admit, as I tend to try and include as many games as I can within some level of reason, and because I'm still early in constructing it, some of my inclusions might come across as a tad wild. I'd say it actually functions more as a timeline at the moment. Anyway, there are at least a few particular inclusions that I think should definitely be more widely accepted as mainline for various reasons:
-Knuckles' Chaotix, Shadow the Hedgehog, and Shadow Generations (yes, specifially "Shadow Generations". I think of it like I think of the Super Mario series where I list "Super Mario 3D World" and a few entries later "Bowser's Fury" where I single out the secondary new game included in the package as a distinct entry to the series. In this case, there's "Sonic Generations" and "Shadow Generations"): I think simply playing as a different character than Sonic isn't enough to disqualify these games, considering that many games involve playing as various characters. They otherwise play fundamentally like other definitely mainline Sonic games.
-SegaSonic, Chaos, Triple Trouble, Blast, Pocket Adventure, Advance 1-3, Battle, Rush & Rush Adventure, Rivals 1 & 2, and Dream Team: I don't think being on a non-traditional home console should disqualify a game from being mainline. It's just another platform that another game was released on and the exclusion is arbitrary. Battle is included for story reasons. 8-Bit 2 should probably also be included for story reasons regarding it being a predecessor to 2 16-Bit. I guess 1 8-Bit could also be included as, storywise, it could just happen right before or after 1 16-Bit and not conflict with anything. I don't include Colors DS, Generations 3DS, and Lost World 3DS as those games' existence (I think) conflicts with the existence of their home console counterparts.
-3D Blast, Secret Rings, Black Knight, and 4 Episode I & II: Reasons to exclude all of these always feel weak to me. Being developed by somebody else doesn't stop the fact that Sega is ultimately the party responsible for Sonic game releases. Also, 3D Blast not coming to Japan for a while means nothing. If it did, Rondo of Blood wouldn't be a mainline Castlevania game, and anyone who knows anything about that series should realize how ridiculous of a notion that would be. As for the Storybook duology, a game series can experience genre shifts sometimes (also Castlevania with Symphony of the Night and recently Final Fantasy XVI) and still continue with mainline games, and the Storybook duology isn't even that drastic of a shift. Regarding 4 Episode I & II, the simple fact of the matter is that they're games officially given to us that are called Sonic 4, end of story.
I think the next Sonic game after all those that I'd prioritize fighting for inclusion next is Labyrinth for a combination of the last 2 reasons, but I might be willing to concede that the lack of a jump button is a step too far away as a deviation from the standard genre of the mainline Sonic series (that being said, Battle is a fighting game and I still include it). One last thought, and I'm probably preaching to the choir now, but just because you think a game is bad, doesn't mean it isn't mainline. That's stupid.
Sega themselves admited that EVERY Sonic game was made with the intention of being part of a timeline (which I'm making, I'll send the link here when I finish it or your next video). So even Sonic 4 is mainline because every game is connected with each other.
For the Sonic X Shadow Generations debacle, you could just have the two campaigns count as their own game. Sonic Generations and Shadow Generations would be their own games in that case.
How about a real question. Which Mario games are canon?
all of them, just like sonic.
@@evolutioner8573Mario 2 it's a dream and Mario 3 it's a stage play tho
@@gamemax1049 well, i quess the dream happend and the stage play to.
@@evolutioner8573 But in the end didn't leave a impact in the Mario World, there's no King Wart conquering Subcon nor saving each King of the other Kingdoms, because neither actually exist
@@gamemax1049 true but King wart actually exists, he is playeble in the mario baseball games. + a dream exists out all things combined that you have seen in real life. So yeah the stage play actually happend as a stage play in the mario world and mario has indeed dreamed once about smb2 so yeah, they are all canon just not the way you think it would.
I think a mainline game is the ones that are somehow directly connected, or at least have a mention though dialog or something
I would personally consider Secret Rings, Black Knight & Superstars (as well as Shadow '05 & Shadow Generations although this was mentioned in the video) a part of the "Mainline" series as they were all big releases on popular platforms despite Superstars being made by Arzest and not by Sonic Team as they were working on Frontiers' DLC and Shadow Gens and have had a greater impact on the franchise that's more than a spinoff would have had. Impact is a another factor to consider when putting games into the "Mainline" category whether that be a positive, neutral or negative effect on the series.
You could also say Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric is "Mainline" as well being a big game release and a 3D platformer, but due to how different Boom is compared to the main gameplay of the series and also not developed by Sonic Team, it's kind of just doing its own thing and is kind of left in this grey-area of being important to the franchise as a whole due to the second dark age of the 2010's starting with this but also being a complete spin on the character's and their world, being a explorative slow-paced platformer with many whacky gimmicks attached to it that Sonic usually doesn't do. Reminds me very much with how Sonic CD was seen compared to the rest of the classic Mega Drive games with it doing its own thing but still being a sort of big release at the time.
My list:
Sonic 1,2,CD,3K,Chaotix, the Advance Trilogy, Adventure dx & 2, Heroes, Shadow 05, S06, Sonic Rush, Unleashed, Colors, Sonic x Shadow Generations, lost world, Mania , Forces, Frontiers, SuperStars.
I honestly feel like to be mainline, you just need the story to tie in with the main plot of sonic's lore.
The classic era (1 up until mania), i would consider mainline. They take place the earliest in the series so they dont need to follow a plot. ( I honestly dont have an answer when it comes to superstars)
The adventure era, SA1 until shadow 05, i would also consider mainline. SA1 started of by giving the characters more of a character. SA2 introduced shadow and rouge, but shadow is definitely the focus, with a lot mystery surrounding at the time, with heroes and shadow 05 explioring more of shadow's past
The modern era, sonic 06 until frontiers is also mainline in my opinion. the exceptions are, sonic 4 episode 1 and 2, those never really had a story, and before you say it's a follow up to the classic games, it uses modern sonic's design and even sonic 3 had a little story through their in game cutscenes.
I'm not really sure where these belongs in those 3 categories so im just giving them their own category
storybook games, i don't feel like they're really expanding more on the sonic canon and aren't meant to be mainline.
sonic rivals, i would consider the first one canon since it reintroduced silver back to the series, i'm still conflicted about rivals 2
The same goes for sonic rush, i feel like the first one is mainline, introducing blaze, but I'm also not sure about the rush adventure
If there's anything you disagree with, something i said wrong, or something i missed. Please tell me
Sonic Shuffle canon?