Of course the SL6 was an improvement and generally more modern and aero, would love to see a proper head to head of that vs the disc SL8, I haven’t seen anyone do that
I bought a tarmac sl5 with da9000 groupset in 2023 just because my idol, Alberto Contador, used to race on one of those when I started to watch cycling back in 2014 as a high school student. It was my dream bike for nearly a decade and last year I finally had the chance and ability to own it. It was amazing to realize the childhood dream, and the bike feels even lighter and stiffer than most of the modern bike. I still enjoy it till this day! I think I may never resell this bike, not only because it feels so good to ride, but also because it holds my childhood dreams.
Been a while since Feather was in a video I’d almost forgotten what a nice chap he is. And an absolute machine on the bike, glad to hear he’s taking back his local KOMs!! 👑
@@mareczuczek I got it in march 2018 as a warranty replacement for my sl3 tarmac. 100k km is only 17k km a year or so. 60km a day for 5 days a week. Bikes last a long time if you maintain them.
@@pierrex3226so your saying pogacar bike is way more aero than this?. never thought his current bike is that aero. Bar deeper rim/ bigger tyres... can't say there's gonna be much in it... cables vs big disk brakes in the wind. Surely these wider clearances for tyres on frame is worse for drag🤔.
I ride a rim brake S-Works SL6, but I’m starting to get nervous taking it out too often. It’s an absolute masterpiece, the peak of bike design. If anything happened to it, replacing it would be next to impossible these days!
I have found taking deep section rovals off and putting ksyrium sl on flys up the hills .has more kick to it .but slower most of the time if not going up hill
This bike is BB30. A bb30 to threaded adapter exists basically an alloy sleeve that is pressed in place of the BB30 bearings. BB30 is 68x42mm. The same width as BSA. Shimano axles are longer than the true bb30 axles back then. Either way to fit a shimano 24mm axle, you would either need to run reducers in the standard PF30 or BB30 bracket bearings or fit a wider bottom bracket. Back then fitting solutions were maybe more limited or less widely known as they are now, so they fitted a press fit to threaded adapter. I had a Ridley bike that was briefly fitted with something similar PF30 to BSA thread adapter. PF30 is like BSA a 68mm wide standard. So adding shimano cups would get you the right width to run a shimano axle. This system didn't work so well actually. Trying to unthread the BSA cups would lead to undoing the presfitt adapter as a whole. Fitted a wheels MFG thread together BB to get to the wider and smaller diameter shimano 24mm axle standard, that worked much better. Beware a thread together and this to BSA thread adapter are not at all the same thing. Nowadays most 30mm axles are longer to also accommodate wider axles standards like BB386, BSA and T47
What I got from this video, that rim brakes rock, old dura ace 9000 is fantastic and it's mechanical, old bikes are super hipper mega stiff and light so... I am glad to keep riding my old SL6 sworks rim, mechanical and super stiff and light bike 😎😎
Great video. Lovely to have the contextual info provided about Contador and the bike's history (I do know who Contador is, but some people may not, or not yet!). And it was very well presented as usual by Si, of course - he's a great presenter.
I have a SL5 tarmac. I replaced also the press fit BB with a threaded one. I mean the cups don't thread into the frame. The left cup threads to the right cup in the middle of a tube attached to them. Also good for perfect alignment.
The hole in the frame might also have gotten slightly worn over time and a pressfit won't fit snug enough. So a thread together with retaining compound might help 🤔
I bought a brand new bike this year and I love it. Within 5 months I've done more kilometers on this new bike than any other bike before and countless commutes to work. My commute hasn't changed. It's the same route that it was 2 years ago but I only came within 2 minutes of my record which I still hold on a 2009 Cervélo (TdF/ Paris-Roubaix winning bike). That bike holds multiple PRs. It's almost scary how good these old bikes are. I still have it and I really need to build it back up this winter
A pleasant sight to see!! An old bike still holding up well regardless!! A bike with such simplicity, pedaled by A. Contador surprised me. The over sized Jockey Wheels was a good addition.ln the modern world ,a bike like this would be considered old and Dated. Old bikes vs. Modern Technology. Excellent segment
There are nowadays a handful of manufacturers producing "threaded pressfit" bottom brackets: wheels manufacturing, black bearing, and moquai are examples of makers who produce pressfit cups with a connecting threaded tube; that work with pressfit frame shells. You "pressfit" one side, and then thread the other, and it prevents a lot of undisired noises
I was pleased to hear that Andrew Feather pulled back 2 of the 3 KOMs he lost on GCN's recent video. All 3 climbs are near to where I live so I'd love to know which of the 3 he got back 🤔
Just bought another one of these sworks sl5 tarmacs about 2 months ago. 6kg on the nose with pedals , mount and cage, comfortably takes 28c tires, the clx’s are tubeless ready, it’s stiff and super efficient and no road buzz. It’s as fast as my 2023 Orbea orca on the flats and climbs a lot quicker. It’s Peak bike
What a machine a proper bike, I like the sponsor compliant statement at the end. Hard narrow tyres still feel so much faster. Lower pressure always feel to squishy and slow
I'm on a modern aero bike. My friend on a supersix rim. Same tyres and tubes. We're basically the same height, build and weight. At 12-15kmh, same power. The moment we start to go above 25 or so, there's 20w or so. Then when we're going fast, the difference is insane. All my equipment choice is to go fast (36 bars, deep wheels, aero helmet, shaved legs, tight clothing and so on). My buddy has none of that and almost cultivates the opposite. All the so called marginal gains really aren't marginal, and I'm routinely doing 35+kmh in Z2.
There are a tonne to press fit to threaded BB adapters. They are insets that are pressed into the BB are threaded internally and spaced to accept the applicable BB shells.
I live in the PNW USA, so it’s always wet, and I think disc brakes are solid upgrade, not believing so until after a year here. That being said, I’ve always wondered what would happen if you gave these bikes 28mm clearance and new DI2. Not saying the bike would be better, but, I’d definitely ride it over my 22 TCR
Such an awesome bike, man! In my opinion, it looks way better than the current bikes and is apparently still more than good enough for most cyclists. Thanks to everyone who sold their rim brakes in recent years… I picked them up for next to nothing!
Only "pro" riders can even come close to squeezing max performance out of any road bike--from any era. The fact that so many fools will pay such incredibly high prices for new bikes.... when there are loads of amazing bikes out there on the market--or 1/10th the price--that those same fools can't even come close to maxing out in terms of performance. I love to show up to my Saturday morning group rides on "vintage" pro-level bikes from the 80s and 90s and 00s and stomp all over guys on the newest bikes... guys that are a lot young (and a lot skinnier) than I am. :) It's been a joy of mine for years.
I still ride mine, similar spec. Don't see much reason to change until its borked. The Tour de France is won on hour long climbs, for those types of climbs I'm not convinced we'd see much difference over the modern version. As a note, its easy to get these into the low 6's kg, but the big difference compared to something like an Aethos is that these are still bull stiff so potentially faster on a long climb vs something noodlier. Its comfortable 'enough' for how fast it is, on all but the worst roads.
Appropriate to have Feather standing on that bike, as "Bertie's" bum pretty much never touched the saddle on a climb either - go back and watch the Matt Stevens ride interview (I remember "c'mon man, you're a national champion" among other things having to do with how long can he ride out of the saddle).
Thanks, Si, and I hope Andrew survives these crumb and crown snatchers, lol. And they probably climb when he is sleeping so he has to wake up to those Strava messages. 😀
It would be interesting to know how stiff this older S-Works is compared to newer S-Works SL7 and especially to S-Works SL8 which suppose to be stiffer than SL7. Where this older S-Works set.
Sadly the cycle industry are losing cash here, YES discs perform better BUT they're soo impractical in many areas... a market for rim brakes still exists - im glad Colnago brought out a rim frame
Why two cages with bottles for a two minute climb, particularly hot day or for the sake of TDF authenticity? Get rid of the cages/bottles, save some weight and decrease aero drag a watt or two worth, no?
Replaced my 2008 Specialized Roubaix Comp Compact with a like-new 2017 S-Works Tarmac just last year. I wanted nothing to do with these new $10k+ monstrosities.
It’s lighter. This means it’s faster uphill. You think he rode discs at the National Hill Climb out of choice or because his sponsors lined his pocket?
Why is Alberto Contador an all-time great and Lance not? Alberto was caught doping in 2010, the year proceeding his 2009 Tour De France win. The year Lance came 2nd Lance was in the same Team as Alberto..
@@pierrex3226 Lol not true at all. I work at a bike shop and I hear all the time “ Oh I don’t ride in groups with people who are on rim brakes they can’t stop” 🤯
Btw I know a lot of people how start and quit cycling because of modern bikes. They overcomplicated, dangerous, and unreliable. And people choose them because of influencers and bikeshop sellers who get paid for that
Continental pro ltd tubulars. Actually proper tires. Gatorskins have the brown reinforced sidewalls which these do not have. Similar pattern for the thread, but they don't have much in common.
Andy, that’s very pedantic my man. Do you really want to go through the rigmarole of ‘can be ridden/driven/whatever fast’ over everything? Would you say you can’t call a well made pair of walking shoes ‘good’, because they are just shoes?
Do you think a bike like Contador's can still perform decently, if put up against more modern bikes?
would be interesting, if in the video Andrew did a second run with his own bike.
Of course. ...
Of course the SL6 was an improvement and generally more modern and aero, would love to see a proper head to head of that vs the disc SL8, I haven’t seen anyone do that
Absolutely I have an identical bike and it's still rapid keep up with any modern bike.
Of course…the more aero designs of frames made since yield no true advantages to anything from that era
I bought a tarmac sl5 with da9000 groupset in 2023 just because my idol, Alberto Contador, used to race on one of those when I started to watch cycling back in 2014 as a high school student. It was my dream bike for nearly a decade and last year I finally had the chance and ability to own it. It was amazing to realize the childhood dream, and the bike feels even lighter and stiffer than most of the modern bike. I still enjoy it till this day! I think I may never resell this bike, not only because it feels so good to ride, but also because it holds my childhood dreams.
Yay to the vintage bike and dreams!
Happy for u, u make your dream come true.. 👍
Been a while since Feather was in a video I’d almost forgotten what a nice chap he is. And an absolute machine on the bike, glad to hear he’s taking back his local KOMs!! 👑
He was on here just a few weeks ago
Machine??He has ftp 350w !! even a lot of female riders have a higher ftp then him!!🎉😂
@@FTA38yearfreeride this is such a bad take. His FTP is properly around 6 or 7 w/kg which is elite.
I still ride, and take regular KOMs on my sl5 tarmac. Close to 100,000km on the frame now and still going strong.
Now THAT is gangsta!
100k? Sheeesh
@@mareczuczek I got it in march 2018 as a warranty replacement for my sl3 tarmac. 100k km is only 17k km a year or so. 60km a day for 5 days a week. Bikes last a long time if you maintain them.
@namwens1 what happened to the SL3? And did it have as many miles?
@@tommyfreckmann6857 formed a crack in the seat stay on the drive side near the dropout. It only had ~20,000km on it when it failed
Todays bikes would struggle against this machine for climbing. I had the SL4 and it’s still the best bike I’ve ever owned
Durianrider is that you?
Aerodynamics, so no. At the speed you're going, probably. With pogacar climbing at 27kmh, aero matters a huge deal.
@@pierrex3226so your saying pogacar bike is way more aero than this?. never thought his current bike is that aero. Bar deeper rim/ bigger tyres... can't say there's gonna be much in it... cables vs big disk brakes in the wind. Surely these wider clearances for tyres on frame is worse for drag🤔.
I guess I was more thinking about it on a steep climb like this. The new stuff is definitely better if gradient is under 12%
I ride a rim brake S-Works SL6, but I’m starting to get nervous taking it out too often. It’s an absolute masterpiece, the peak of bike design. If anything happened to it, replacing it would be next to impossible these days!
I agree, I love that bike too. Still using it to these days.
I have found taking deep section rovals off and putting ksyrium sl on flys up the hills .has more kick to it .but slower most of the time if not going up hill
This bike is BB30. A bb30 to threaded adapter exists basically an alloy sleeve that is pressed in place of the BB30 bearings. BB30 is 68x42mm. The same width as BSA. Shimano axles are longer than the true bb30 axles back then. Either way to fit a shimano 24mm axle, you would either need to run reducers in the standard PF30 or BB30 bracket bearings or fit a wider bottom bracket. Back then fitting solutions were maybe more limited or less widely known as they are now, so they fitted a press fit to threaded adapter.
I had a Ridley bike that was briefly fitted with something similar PF30 to BSA thread adapter. PF30 is like BSA a 68mm wide standard. So adding shimano cups would get you the right width to run a shimano axle. This system didn't work so well actually. Trying to unthread the BSA cups would lead to undoing the presfitt adapter as a whole. Fitted a wheels MFG thread together BB to get to the wider and smaller diameter shimano 24mm axle standard, that worked much better. Beware a thread together and this to BSA thread adapter are not at all the same thing. Nowadays most 30mm axles are longer to also accommodate wider axles standards like BB386, BSA and T47
Ceramicspeed BB30 to 24mm thread in together BB is best solution. I have BB30 frame with Shimano crank.
SRAM PressFit BB30 to BSA 68/73mm English Threaded Bottom Bracket Adapter ftw!
Love that era of Dura Ace, gorgeous groupset
Long live king Feather! Side note: I really appreciate that GCN has finally gone to 4K in a lot of your videos. Looks great.
It's always good to see Andrew "The Mighty Twig" Feather in action.
Best era of bikes. Looks great.
When you look at the upper body muscles you wouldn't think Andrew was the hill climber :D
What I got from this video, that rim brakes rock, old dura ace 9000 is fantastic and it's mechanical, old bikes are super hipper mega stiff and light so... I am glad to keep riding my old SL6 sworks rim, mechanical and super stiff and light bike 😎😎
Great video. Lovely to have the contextual info provided about Contador and the bike's history (I do know who Contador is, but some people may not, or not yet!). And it was very well presented as usual by Si, of course - he's a great presenter.
The video is even better when you realize Feather matches Contadors climbing style ❤
Amazing video, loved it! Dan is the man. 2016 bikes were so great. Still are actually!
I have a SL5 tarmac. I replaced also the press fit BB with a threaded one. I mean the cups don't thread into the frame. The left cup threads to the right cup in the middle of a tube attached to them. Also good for perfect alignment.
The hole in the frame might also have gotten slightly worn over time and a pressfit won't fit snug enough. So a thread together with retaining compound might help 🤔
We love a bit of cycling history on the channel now and then. Beautiful bike! 👌
I replaced my SL4 BB30 to Shimano 24mm with a Praxis conversion kit which is a press fit one side & threaded the other.
I bought a brand new bike this year and I love it. Within 5 months I've done more kilometers on this new bike than any other bike before and countless commutes to work. My commute hasn't changed. It's the same route that it was 2 years ago but I only came within 2 minutes of my record which I still hold on a 2009 Cervélo (TdF/ Paris-Roubaix winning bike). That bike holds multiple PRs. It's almost scary how good these old bikes are. I still have it and I really need to build it back up this winter
A pleasant sight to see!! An old bike still holding up well regardless!! A bike with such simplicity, pedaled by A. Contador surprised me. The over sized Jockey Wheels was a good addition.ln the modern world ,a bike like this would be considered old and Dated. Old bikes vs. Modern Technology. Excellent segment
Vintage For The Win 🤙🤙
There are nowadays a handful of manufacturers producing "threaded pressfit" bottom brackets: wheels manufacturing, black bearing, and moquai are examples of makers who produce pressfit cups with a connecting threaded tube; that work with pressfit frame shells. You "pressfit" one side, and then thread the other, and it prevents a lot of undisired noises
OMG I'm feeling old - still riding a Giant OCR 😃
I was pleased to hear that Andrew Feather pulled back 2 of the 3 KOMs he lost on GCN's recent video. All 3 climbs are near to where I live so I'd love to know which of the 3 he got back 🤔
Of course the SL6 was an improvement and generally more modern and aero, would love to see a proper head to head of that vs the disc SL8
That BB will probably have something like a Praxis convertor fitted, especially for Shimano cranks. I had the same thing on my first carbon bike.
that Dura Ace Crank design and color scheme tho
Just bought another one of these sworks sl5 tarmacs about 2 months ago. 6kg on the nose with pedals , mount and cage, comfortably takes 28c tires, the clx’s are tubeless ready, it’s stiff and super efficient and no road buzz. It’s as fast as my 2023 Orbea orca on the flats and climbs a lot quicker. It’s Peak bike
Other conclusion would be to worry more about your fitness than your bike specs (unless you are a WT rider)
What a machine a proper bike, I like the sponsor compliant statement at the end. Hard narrow tyres still feel so much faster. Lower pressure always feel to squishy and slow
I'm on a modern aero bike. My friend on a supersix rim. Same tyres and tubes. We're basically the same height, build and weight. At 12-15kmh, same power. The moment we start to go above 25 or so, there's 20w or so. Then when we're going fast, the difference is insane. All my equipment choice is to go fast (36 bars, deep wheels, aero helmet, shaved legs, tight clothing and so on). My buddy has none of that and almost cultivates the opposite. All the so called marginal gains really aren't marginal, and I'm routinely doing 35+kmh in Z2.
There are a tonne to press fit to threaded BB adapters. They are insets that are pressed into the BB are threaded internally and spaced to accept the applicable BB shells.
I live in the PNW USA, so it’s always wet, and I think disc brakes are solid upgrade, not believing so until after a year here. That being said, I’ve always wondered what would happen if you gave these bikes 28mm clearance and new DI2. Not saying the bike would be better, but, I’d definitely ride it over my 22 TCR
Such an awesome bike, man! In my opinion, it looks way better than the current bikes and is apparently still more than good enough for most cyclists. Thanks to everyone who sold their rim brakes in recent years… I picked them up for next to nothing!
This is my first road bike i ever bought. Still riding it today.
So easy to work on, adjust, maintain and transport without bubbles getting into the hydraulics! Bliss!
Only "pro" riders can even come close to squeezing max performance out of any road bike--from any era. The fact that so many fools will pay such incredibly high prices for new bikes.... when there are loads of amazing bikes out there on the market--or 1/10th the price--that those same fools can't even come close to maxing out in terms of performance. I love to show up to my Saturday morning group rides on "vintage" pro-level bikes from the 80s and 90s and 00s and stomp all over guys on the newest bikes... guys that are a lot young (and a lot skinnier) than I am. :) It's been a joy of mine for years.
I still ride mine, similar spec. Don't see much reason to change until its borked. The Tour de France is won on hour long climbs, for those types of climbs I'm not convinced we'd see much difference over the modern version. As a note, its easy to get these into the low 6's kg, but the big difference compared to something like an Aethos is that these are still bull stiff so potentially faster on a long climb vs something noodlier. Its comfortable 'enough' for how fast it is, on all but the worst roads.
Pogačar would win the tour on this easy.
You can get converters that enable a press fit BB to work with threaded BB’S
You missed out Contador’s doping suspension in your Bio of him 💉 💊
Most people used to wrap the bar tape " in reverse"....
Also a great bike for steak shopping.
This is peak bike. Don't let the cycling industry scam you into buying "upgrades" anymore.
Why you watching gcn then?
And for shure my 30mm tubeless tires are less comfortable and slower than old 23mm tubulars with 10bar
100% New bikes are heavy and fragile
Certainly peak lightness and stiffness.
You said it.@@laurenz323
Any bike which was top flight in its day will ALWAYS be good.
Old Bike? Said it! Hope you hear the question again. Banesto Dyna lites recently became Old by the way.
Appropriate to have Feather standing on that bike, as "Bertie's" bum pretty much never touched the saddle on a climb either - go back and watch the Matt Stevens ride interview (I remember "c'mon man, you're a national champion" among other things having to do with how long can he ride out of the saddle).
That era of Durace is still the best looking ever , ever ever
The bottom bracket is most likely a wheels manufactured bb30 adapter I’ve the same frame and use this system as it’s stiffer and no creaks
Truly the Buzzfeed of the cycling world
If the SL5 is a classic then that's fine by me. I have one and for me it goes like a rocket
Great video as always. An interesting video would be an insight into what stretches/exercises you guys do off the bike to prevent injury. Thanks!
Thanks, Si, and I hope Andrew survives these crumb and crown snatchers, lol. And they probably climb when he is sleeping so he has to wake up to those Strava messages. 😀
"It's not about the bike" ;)
Exactly what I was thinking too.
Just wait until Durianrider sees this one :)
Why?
Who cares. He is insignificant
Screw durianrider, vicious, lying fraud he is.
Peak bike right there!
It would be interesting to know how stiff this older S-Works is compared to newer S-Works SL7 and especially to S-Works SL8 which suppose to be stiffer than SL7. Where this older S-Works set.
He was also a very big fan of beef
Just feed Andrew more meat to match Contador
Looks like 7900. The year, the "silver" died. In 2016, I was still racing on 22mm Comps. Looks like a 12-27, or 12-28.
Sadly the cycle industry are losing cash here, YES discs perform better BUT they're soo impractical in many areas... a market for rim brakes still exists - im glad Colnago brought out a rim frame
10% hill climb 50-100kgf up tire 1
here for the answer to the press fit bb with threaded cups in it ? i have a specialized crux 2015 and hate the press fit! many thanks :)
Funny, your video editor forgot to remove the three fingers 😂
Why two cages with bottles for a two minute climb, particularly hot day or for the sake of TDF authenticity? Get rid of the cages/bottles, save some weight and decrease aero drag a watt or two worth, no?
No
The bottles actually improve arero drag that is why feather put them on there.
Colnago c 60 Campagnolo Record meccanico 12 v .
Sono contento 🙏🏻🇮🇹😃
Replaced my 2008 Specialized Roubaix Comp Compact with a like-new 2017 S-Works Tarmac just last year. I wanted nothing to do with these new $10k+ monstrosities.
Yo answer your question on the bottom bracket, could it be a White Industries adaptor?
Sounds like a thread-thru BB.
Is there a Stig v Stig 2 showdown in the works?
It’s lighter. This means it’s faster uphill. You think he rode discs at the National Hill Climb out of choice or because his sponsors lined his pocket?
So it's only 8 years old? The bike industry is ripping us off!!!!
Why the water bottles 😅
Sworks love it
It must have all grease removed from bearings as that's what he demanded his mechanics do.
Why is Alberto Contador an all-time great and Lance not?
Alberto was caught doping in 2010, the year proceeding his 2009 Tour De France win.
The year Lance came 2nd Lance was in the same Team as Alberto..
All the bike industry do now, is look for and sell and idea that they think you want. Now its fast and comfortable. Rather than all out fast.
Bike manufacturers would have you believe that you'd never survive on the road on a five year old bike. Rim brakes? That's dangerous!
Virtually nobody is saying rim is dangerous.
@@pierrex3226 Lol not true at all. I work at a bike shop and I hear all the time “ Oh I don’t ride in groups with people who are on rim brakes they can’t stop” 🤯
I’ll take that old bike over the internal cable crap
Definitely doesn't look that dated the frameset and wheels.
It doesn't look dated at all and it tells a lot about the fake "new tech" that we've been fed with the last 8 years.
tbh that bike looks actually dated to me despite only being 8years old
I mean, if it's too slow for you guys, I suppose I can take it off your hands
I'm sure it's still fast, why would be slower than then ?. If frame is lost stiffness after all these years then that could be a one reason.
Mister ftp 350 up a molehill riding this bike !?! blasfemie!! 😂
Btw I know a lot of people how start and quit cycling because of modern bikes. They overcomplicated, dangerous, and unreliable. And people choose them because of influencers and bikeshop sellers who get paid for that
I'll don't buy that justification how modern bikes are better than those peak bikes
a lighter crank !
Make a sram red on it the bike will be lighter !
not all of history is pretty and it shouldn't have to be
who said carbon wheels lifespan is short? 😅🤣🙂
Don’t replace Feather!!! 😡😡😡😡😡😡😡
Gatorskins? WTF!
All else makes sense... but... the heck?
They aren't gatorskins....
@@peterwillson1355 Is not? ... @2:54 looked it...
Continental pro ltd tubulars. Actually proper tires. Gatorskins have the brown reinforced sidewalls which these do not have. Similar pattern for the thread, but they don't have much in common.
@@luukrutten1295 OK. The orange text and billion nubs made me think they were.
The conclusion is full of junk science as always.
The peak of ugly bikes that.
Who is Alberto Contador? A convicted cheat. A rider whose Tour de France victory was scratched off for doping.
In 2010 I believe? He actually can claim 2 Tour de France, 2 Giro d’Italia, and 3 Vuelta wins. Just a drug user? I don’t think so.
🥱
They all cheat. He was still stronger at the end of the day
It's got rim brakes and it's a decade old... it must be crap 🙄
It is 😂😁
Isn't a bicycle an inanimate object, so it can't really be fast, or slow?
Andy, that’s very pedantic my man. Do you really want to go through the rigmarole of ‘can be ridden/driven/whatever fast’ over everything? Would you say you can’t call a well made pair of walking shoes ‘good’, because they are just shoes?
Exactly this, the human legs power the bike, no such thing as a 'fast road bike'
😮