I'll keep watching it but focus more on the NFL. So I don't care about it. It's too dumb. If they could decrease the races, it would be 25-30 races a year. 5 race runoff with the 2011-2013 format.
Not really, no. I'd prefer a full season points format. Nice to see a majority of the playoff drivers have said that they don't care for the playoffs either.
At least the original Chase format was still pretty good. I wish that they would ditch the win-and-you’re-in and the elimination rounds. With the original Chase format, the best driver would still win, most of the time. With this format, a lot of time, luck plays a big role in it. Kevin Harvick not winning, or at least running for, the 2020 championship showed the major cracks in this system.
Almost like it hasn't been a good system for 20 years. The online fanbase seems to hate, the teams hate it, the drivers hate it, the old fans hate it. Yet the ratings aren't bad enough for NASCAR to change it. So who the heck is watching it?
@@quesopassojust don't watch.. simple as that..I mean what you want them to do? You got SVG racing next year in the cup series so I don't think you should be mad. Next year it will be 11 years since the playoffs. Why get mad now? Is it cause your favorite driver not in?
I remember when I used to actually like the playoffs. My argument was “If you can’t win when it matters then you don’t deserve the championship” I was so ignorant, but after seeing Harvick miss the championship 4 in 2020 and watching Truex miss the playoffs entirely simply because he didn’t have a win really opened my eyes to how stupid this format really is. The fact a driver last in the standings is considered a championship contender is wild.
I like the playoff system because it does create more drama and can cause deviations from expectations. But I’m not a fan of one win and you’re in. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while and it isn’t right that drivers who remain consistent all season aren’t able to compete for a championship. I was happy when Harrison Burton won at Daytona. I cheered hard when it happened, and he’s a great dude, but he did not earn a chance to compete for a title. If they want to secure spots based on wins, raise it to 3.
This format we have now has made me realize the original chase format wasn’t a bad concept at all. I have hated the playoffs since 2020 with what happened to my driver Harvick and will forever hate them but I know nascar isn’t gonna change it cause they want these crazy chaotic moments. I would be all for having a final round for the championship. Instead of doing a winner take all final race make it a final round of 3 races
As someone who has only been watching in the elimination playoffs, I absolutely agree. From 2004-2013, we did still have a good amount of legitimate champions. 2005, 2006, 2009, 2012, and 2013 would've ended with the same champions. From 2014 to now. Only 3 times was the champion also the champion in full points. Martin Truex in 2017, Kyle Busch in 2019, and Kyle Larson in 2021.
I'm 30 almost 31 grew up a Jeff Gordon fan and I have hated the playoffs Chase with a passion Jeff was robbed 3 different times in 2004 2007 and 2014 especially 2007 but they won't ever change because they want chaos and Game 7 moments 🙄
@@spheredhawk67 exactly what you said! Harvick really exposed the playoffs in 2020. They don’t make winning mean more like people who defend the playoffs like to say
I like the hybrid idea, I was talking to someone in a NASCAR FB group about doing something like that recently. One good race does not a champion make.
Hot take: the playoffs isnt about the drivers or teams, its to keep all of the races tv relevant until the end of the season for advertisers and sponsors.
Ryan Blaney really made me turn on this system. I know he won with the situation he was given but a guy with 8 top 5s all season and a 14.1 average finish does not deserve to be champion. The system needs to change.
Blaney and Logano winning are the most egregious examples of undeserving champions thus far and it's no surprise to me they happened back to back seasons with this insanely stupid format
Last year when Byron was robbed by this format, it reminded me of every time Jeff Gordon before him was robbed by it. It... turned my hatred of the chase and playoffs to an 11
Me too. It destroyed Jeff's last multi-win season when he got wrecked by Brad. I really wanted it for him in 2014 and 2004. I really wanted him to join Earnhardt and Petty as 7 time champions instead of Jimmie.
Jimmie would have gotten a 7-time championship anyway, only it would be later because Jeff Gordon would win it first in 2015 after a 5th in 2004, a 6th in 2005, then the 5-year sweep kicks in, with a 6th in 2011, then it proceeds as normal. It would have been history to see 2 guys in the same team win championships from 2004-2016, and beat record wins at the same time (96 and 88 wins, respectively). But no, Matt Kenseth had to screw it all up...
@@evanwilliams6406 I remember watching that race and let me tell I was all kinds of mad at Brad keslowski and I really wanted to see Jeff Gordon win his 5th piston cup but thanks to Brad keslowski and Ryan Newman that didn't happen thanks a lot Brad and Ryan.
@@evanwilliams6406I wanted Gordon to win his 5th championship more though just so he can tie with Kobe Bryant in titles with the number 24. Him tying or breaking Earnhardt's and Petty's championship record. Eh I don't know kind of tough to know with every season being different and such.
As a fan that came in in 2018, there are pros and cons. Pro: There is more interest in winning Con: if a driver like Harrison Burton wins, the playoffs are devalued Pro: As a Kyle Larson fan, wreckers or checkereds is a somewhat viable option. So long as you’ve won a race or have a lot of points to spare, go out there and race your hardest Con: This leads to the over aggression we saw this year with Dillion These are just 2 that i thought of. I would love to see either 2 options. A: a top 25 rule where if you are in the top 25 and win a race, you are in. Or B: 12 man playoff Edit: for B: 12 man playoff with no win and in. I think that was obvious, but just wanted to clear confusion
@@JackLikesTrackhouseAND they proved something by winning a race. I don't mind NASCAR trying to emphasize wins, it's the allowing someone 30th and below that's kinda bizarre
@JackLikesTrackhouse agree those 3 are all upsets ir wildcards they had decent seasons and were able to punch through and steal a spot Then there's harrison burtin who is last of the full time drivers gets lucky at daytona That is a waste of a spot
The crazy thing is that it would be so easy to get an intriguing season even with a full season points format. Indycar (which I would consider to have less parity than nascar) has only had 1 season when a driver clinched the championship with races remaining in the last 17 years. So the whole “but…but… fans will complain and ratings will go down if someone clinched before the season ends” argument is stupid.
I partly agree with that but on the other hand lenghth of the season is a problem here. In 17-18 races (IndyCar) it's much easier to not have someone pull away in comparison to 36 races
The ultimate system was the season long Winston Cup points system. "Excitement" be damned. If you're going to have a playoff type elimination format, take the top 16 in points. No win and you're in.
I don't even want a Matt Kenseth rule. He was the best that season. The consistency was really impressive, and his pit crew, "The Killer Bees," was phenomenal. They earned the Cup with week in, week out performance that met the championship standards of most every major motorsport. And I don't recall fans actually complaining that he lacked a win. We were **told** that fans complained, as part of NASCAR's campaign to sell the Chase, and that has been the official narrative since. But in my experience, the fans didn't suddenly sour on the championship format back then. Rather, a bunch left because of the Chase, which was transparently more for NASCAR's TV and ad money than for the fans. The Playoffs even more so.
I'm surprised they're actually understanding that the format is broken, after all this time. There's a lot that needs to be fixed within the sport but this is definitely a major one.
The play-offs make the rest of the season feel like it doesn't matter. NASCAR (and in some cases, the fans) have to deal with the fact that in motorsports, the season will almost never end in a nail-biting finale. That is exactly why big finales are famous/infamous across the racing world and get remembered forever. When every year becomes a spectacle, then no year is spectacular. Imagine of the season-long championship battles we may have been robbed of since the play-offs and even the chase were introduced. It's a damn shame.
People saying that the playoffs can be fixed is like arguing about weather the foundation of a house is better as brick or wood without realising that the foundation is built on quicksand
The 2004-2013 iteration of the Chase was the perfect middle ground between the old (and proven) season long points format, and the abomination we've had since 2014. I feel like the 2010-12 versions were even better because the points table was easier to follow (a max of 48 points for winning and leading the most laps, and minus a point for each successive position) and there were no stages/stage points.
2011-2013 was the peak years of the format. In that time span, you had one round where Stewart and Edwards literally tied, and the following year BK managed to win his championship with a bit of comfort. It just worked.
The current playoff format is what started my falling out of love with modern nascar. The final straw was the introduction of stages and how those laps count towards the race distance when nascar is officially stopping the race. My opinion? Bring back a full season championship, or a 10 car, 10 race chase where consistency is awarded over all else. Have playoff points give you an extra set of points to start off the chase, that way it still puts emphasis on winning, but you wont get someone winning a race from 40th in points being in the chase because they werent consistent enough to be top 10/12/16 in points. Then, assuming you want to stage race as nascar as seems to; dont count those laps towards the race distance.
There's many ways NASCAR could fix it, some being better than others, but all of them involve changing the current "single race winner take all" championship round.
Going back to the latford system no chase no playoffs, using the points tallies from 2011 onwards where winning was actually rewarded with the extra bonus points, and keeping the stage bonus points while getting rid of the stage cautions, all will make more deserving champions under this system. I like Blaney but he should've never been champion last season and the shit playoff system was exposed then.
It’s likely that Austin Dillon wrecked Joey Logano and Denny Hamlin for the win at Richmond just because NASCAR completely dropped the cutoff rule for "win and you’re in." The desperation that comes with knowing one win can get you into the playoffs, no matter how the rest of your season went, leads to reckless driving like this. Dillon knew that a win would punch his ticket, so he pushed it to the limit, even if it meant wrecking others. This whole system encourages chaos and aggressive moves instead of clean, competitive racing. It’s ridiculous!
This isn't a "recent" issue at all. For years fans who complained about this have been told if they don't like it, don't watch. But of course the talking heads at nascar try to gaslight everyone into thinking this system has been loved since it's inception. I would prefer a season long points battle and have no reason to think it would really have a negative impact, but I get the appeal of the eliminations and the playoffs and all that. I just want win and in to go away. I want the 16 playoff drivers to be the 16 best drivers of the year. The whole point of a playoff system is it is to allow the best teams from the regular season to compete against one another for the championship.
I’m an older fan I like a full season. This isn’t Football, NHL, Baseball or Basketball. This is supposed to be racing. They compete all year against each other. Best team and driver even if they top5 everyone to death should win the championship. Great video. Side note some of this technology is killing racing.
Just give whoever wins a bonus 15 points (not playoff points) therefore if you win and get both stages you get 75 max still rewards the win yes, but if you’re in 30th and win yes you jump a bunch in the points but it guarantees you nothing. Allows you to only have a bad week not a bad 25 weeks pre playoffs, also go back to the 10 race finale
Well, they wanted late Millennials (1992-1998) and early Zoomers (1999-2003) to experience what was so hype about NASCAR, yet they screwed up more than enhanced. New $#!++y tracks, lackluster format, the COT, and the recession of 2008 all contributed to them screwing it up
Playoffs should have been left to the ball sports where you have between the best 7-11 guys on a team facing the 2nd best 7-11 guys for the crown. Do you really want to see a 1v1 between 2 drivers for 500 miles? Nah. Winston cup points style is how it always should have been.
The system is trash, and has been trash since 2004. These days the moment the race ends I tune out. The championship is irrelevant. I come to this channel and check the real standings, because thats actually interesting to me.
I see fans posting the system was exposed in 2014, due to Ryan Newman. But if you really look at the Chase/Playoffs, it was actually Kurt Busch who exposed the system when he won the first Chase.
As gen z the demographic nascar seems to want to attract with this format. I hate it, too complex when I try to explain to curious friends. Here’s what I propose, keep stages and stage points but ditch stage cautions everywhere. Get rid of win and you’re in, top 10 in points are all who qualify. Bring back points for leading a lap and the most laps, 1 for a lap, 5 for most. The playoffs are simple top ten have points reset and fight it out for ten races. This will also help cases where a leader gets wrecked before stages but doesn’t give a crazy amount of points if you only lead in green flag cycles
I personally dislike it as it takes away from the guys who put together a really good season but cant put together a good string of 10 races and it also means that a guy could win 35/36 races but loose the championship if he looses that last race
The playoffs to me feel more like a Mario cart points format than one for a serious elite racing series that is the NASCAR Cup Series. I can just imagine in my head Mario saying: Win and you’re in! or, Overtime! lol. I really want them to return to the Winston Cup style points where the guy with the best finishes all year win it, but I don’t think this is likely.
Ironic, cause there's 1 guy in the polls that does the entire season with the Mario Kart 8 points style (though DS would have been better). Yeah, unless Winston returns, a Matt Kenseth rule is established, or Alex Bowman wins the championship, it ain't likely
The reason its popping off is because big name drivers (Kyle Busch, Chris Buescher, Bubba Wallace, etc..) missed the playoffs, and people that are running in the top 30s or worse weekend and weekout make it. (Harrison, technically Truex if he keeps fucking himself up, Briscoe who was pretty much absolutely nowhere the whole year, same for Suarez)
No. Too much focus on wins and yields dirty driving. Bring back the Latford! I know it’ll probably never happen, but one could wish. If anything, maybe drop the “win and you’re in” during the regular season?
I agree keep the point system in place keep stage racing but throw no caution then have a season long system bingo fixed and now the best driver always wins
OPTION ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is the only way A fair champion is crowned, it’s good enough for every other Motorsport on the entire planet. Second, 2021 f1 season. That alone is reason enough, best championship fight I have seen or ever will see, all the way to the final race without a stupid gimmick to make it that way.
Thank you for pointing out the media’s role in this playoff format. You mentioned Sirius radio and I must say that the media personality who is most disgustingly up NASCAR’s butt is Dave Moody. He collects his little paycheck from NASCAR so of course he won’t dare go against NASCAR or ever admit that what they do on any given week is wrong, whether it’s the “playoffs”, the rules, the Car, etc. I can’t believe that anyone calls in to his show because all he does is belittle and reprimand the fan telling them how they are wrong and he and NASCAR are right. It’s very rare that he will engage in a debate with the fan and if he did I’m sure it would help the sport by giving the fans a voice where NASCAR might hear it.
My suggestions: Get rid of Win and In but make wins worth a significant amount of extra points. Change from 40 points to 50 or 60. Getting 60 points for a win over 35 for second would be pretty big, but not big enough for Harrison Burton to jump into the playoffs. Hybrid playoffs- I like the 8 and 8 format 5 races each. 5 races makes it so a one off Dega crash or fluke winner doesn't ruin the whole thing, and having it not be "whoever can race a flat oval best" wins the championship in Phoenix.
I’ll say this on the matter… Yes, this is the nature of the playoffs and other sports playoffs have been getting way too out of hand as well lately (like you have a better odds to make the postseason than being in the draft lottery in the NBA with their play-in format for 20 out of the 30 teams being technically in the “playoffs” or CFP expanding to 12 teams is a bit overkill when you still have too many bowls for just being .500 throughout the season)… but NASCAR and those other sports are like comparing Apples to Oranges. Sure, we have more parity now and it’s cut back the Buschwhacking for making the lower series more competitive without Cup guys running every week to take away from any drivers development… but, NASCAR isn’t the same sport as an NFL or MLB who have similar playoff rules. Playoffs and auto racing are two oxymoronic things that just don’t belong in the same sentence. I feel like Dillon’s Richmond win and the actions around the late restart broke the camels back on this one, but what hairbrained idea will their be next to make it so we get more Mickey Mouse Champions than any legit champions. Give me back the pre-2004 era where the whole season mattered and not just a few races at the end. Heck, it’s going to be even more chaotic by adding Talladega in the middle of the Round of 8. They need to take F1’s lead and go back to whole season points to determine a championship.
Alright, this might be a bit controversial, but here's how I would change it: Go back to a full season and get rid of Stage cautions. Keep the way points are awarded now, but award 50 points for winning a race and make it where every race has 4 stages equally dividing the race into quarters. That way, when rain affects the race, we don't have to worry about whether or not they've gone past halfway because the end of stage 2 is the halfway point. To make practice and qualifying more interesting, give points for the top 5 in practice and the top 5 in qualifying. Lastly, the driver with the fastest lap and/or fastest pit stop gets 1 point each at the end of every race.
“Oh we need the playoffs for the story lines”…. I remember back in the 80’s and 90’s (yes I’m that old)there never being a lack of story lines….in fact it was better because there wasn’t an over saturation of stories that it drowned out what was happening on the track (which I think is part of the reason why the race coverage has gotten worse)…but that’s just one fans opinion from watching the sport for 40 years
I would love to see the season long points system. Just give alot more points for winning a race. And I'd like to see drivers get points for leading laps again. I would also like to see something similar to what indycar does for the indy 500. Give double points for crown jewel races. For the most part, i do like stage breaks in the cup series but prefer them with no cautions. They to get rid of them in xfinity and trucks. The races are too and the stage breaks don't allow for as much strategy.
I think at this point we really need to do something drastic. If it were up to me I’d take the Latford system and simply it down. Top 5 will have its own ranks while every other position is just a one point difference. 1. 50 2. 45 3. 41 4. 38 5. 36 6. 35 7. 34 etc. Then add bonus points for Winning the pole, Most laps led, and fastest race lap. No stages. No post season of any kind.
I've always thought this Playoff format, along with the playoff name itself was dumb ever since it was implemented especially the 1 race championship. Championships are nowhere near as legitimate as they once were. The Chase was WAY more legitimate than what we have now. I'd prefer a full season points format but know it'll never happen.
Winston was chased out by the government, and Matt Kenseth ruined the format. If Bowman wins the championship, we might see it get killed off for a taste of the past (meaning, 2004-2010 format)
Broadly stated, I just don't like the state of nascar in 2024. Playoffs, stages, green white checkered, atlanta, the tv package, and probably more I'm forgetting.
I remember in 2022 when Truex was in the top 5 on points and narrowly missed the playoffs because of all of the new winners that year. Playoffs can be entertaining but also frustrating at the same time
The mad scientist creates a monster and says 'don't worry it's all good everyone will love it, nothing bad will happen'. Years later the scientist has gone in sane and the monster has gotten unpredictable. As bad as the Austin Dillion situation was they saw a preview with spin gate. NASCAR created this monster, bring back the seasonal point system please.
I'm convinced that the playoff format helped chase Carl Edwards out of the sport, and as time continues, it's going to be a barrier for other skilled drivers to come in. And it's also really sad to see college football make the exact same mistake......
They have 26 races to win a race, ONE RACE! As a professional Nascar driver that should be obtainable. Yeah sometimes it lets crap in like Burton but then dont lose to him! You cant please people, if you went back to the chase or top 10 go, all the fans of drivers who finished 11-16 would bitch that their guy didnt make it. Hamlin is just salty cause he isnt a champion. If he won this year he would be fine with the current playoff system
Thank you for suggesting option three. It's the best one to reward old school consistency and the glory of winning. I would also cap the playoff field once again at ten and eliminate "win and you're in". If you're not looking or running like a championship contender during a majority of weeks throughout the season, you shouldn't be competing for one, regardless of getting the feel good one every now and then. Use playoff points from wins and stage wins as the gaps between the top ten once the final ten races start. From there, most points get you the title like 2004-2013. Finally, attempt to change up the playoff races as often as possible without it feeling too "one and done" for tracks that deserve playoff dates
Man that last bit where you said to appease the crowd that wants wins to matter more. How can winning a race not mean anything? It's wild to hear something like that
The way I see it, Nascar saw that the value of a season long championship and even a chase long championship was not equal in value to the ability to keep more people's fan bases engaged for longer. For them, being a champion is a party at the end of the year, an announcement at the banquet, and a line in the history books. But being able to keep more drivers actively engaged and elevated season to season has certainly done something even if the winner isn't as "deserving" To this point in time the champion on the old style points was at least in contention with 2 races to go. But we're stacking this deck more and more against that being a given. We nearly had to kick out a win and in driver a couple years ago because the points leader hadn't won a race. Nearly half the drivers in this year's playoffs are only factors because they won a single time. And that's not even to bring up Kyle Busch's first championship. To give an answer, this points system is more fun and gives much more to talk about, but I haven't cared about champions since the talk of waivers and eliminations began. I like that drivers like Chris Buscher, Bubba Wallace, Harrison Burton, and Daniel Suarez get more time in the sunlight but a single race isn't the stage for a season long championship.
This playoff system is a total disaster! Three drivers who would be top 10 in points under the old system are missing out, while two guys well outside the top 20 sneak in just because they got lucky one weekend? How is that even remotely fair? Steve Phelps and NASCAR seriously dropped the ball thinking this would be a good idea. Rewarding fluke wins over season-long consistency completely undermines the competition. Phelps needs to wake up and realize this system is ruining the integrity of the sport! It's honestly embarrassing at this point.
It has become a joke I struggle to watch I will occasionally watch some races but do I watch every race anymore no because the season doesn’t matter anymore and it nice a farce we had a format that crown a champion that deserved it EVERY YEAR no the driver stats may not be what we liked but there was ZERO doubt that the driver was the best from that year
I fell out of NASCAR for along time. Gordon, Jr., Wallace, Martin were my guys. I fell out of nascar around 09-10. So I knew who Denny was but not really. He gets too much hate. His podcast is good. He’s a great villain but he’s authentic. I like Chastain, Bush, Larson, Denny. BK. General a ford guy. None of my guys ever drive a ford really. Joe Briscoe, I think he will turn around at Gibbs.
I'd like it if they went back to the top 10 but have a point systems for just amongst themselves. Since we have Stages now you could incorporate them into it as well. Under this, they basically points-wise race amongst themselves so kinda like the Championship 4 but the points do matter and they do this from race 1 to 10, no eliminations except of course for mathematical & at the end may the best driver win. What I mean by race amongst themselves, despite their field finish they get the points based on where the finish when you just factor in the top 10 in points that were locked in. So for example using the results from the Southern 500, with Blaney finishing last, instead of getting 37th place points, he would get 10th place points since he finished the lowest of the top 10 in points & so on & so forth. Of course this is with the 2000 points added after race 26 with them locked in.
there are 4 drivers outside the top 16 that are not in the playoffs (Buescher, Wallace, Chastain, and Busch). it’s hard to say that NASCAR the 16 best drivers competing for its championship when there are 4 guys in the top 16 who are on the outside looking in.
I wish they could at least segment the 2 format, like making the driver's champion in the chase format but the owner's would be on season points. Something to recognize that the fans exist
I believe that they should go back to the Winston cup points style sense the new car has "parody" it should work itsself out. (I understand the problems with the new car but its still the closest) I hate to say IROC but its whats basically needed at this point for parody in the sport and cost caping. Let em change springs shocks camber and caster but thats it. No r and d, no team "war rooms no telemetry let em battle it out at the track
Not always having parity is fine by me. It's part of why I watch. There are plenty of series that are fully spec, use balance of power, etc., I want to see at least some innovation as that can make the difference some weekends. We have plenty of "parity" now and enough of the tracks people can barely pass at.
My personal thought on what to do for the playoffs is... Instead of doing the win and your in the first 26 races, make them just full season points. Top 16 in points make it in. Then it's basically the same playoffs we have after that. Win a race and your in the next round. Might not be the greatest idea... might need to add more... but it's a start of something lol
I mean, Im fine with the playoffs for the most part, but this year is the least interested I am in it. They really need to bring back the top 30 rule, but instead make it a Top 25 or 20. It could be similar to the Wild Card Chase in 2011-13. Win and youre in before the end of the regular season also needs to go. To me, that would help make the playoff field better.
This format sucks. Like you said Beuscher, Wallace, Chastain, and Busch have more points than some of the drivers in and format has ruined Great Underdog Wins
Here’s what I think we should do. I’m not an anti playoff person. I’m not even an anti elimination style playoff format. But there needs to be a lot of changes to the system. - First off get rid of win and you are in the playoffs because drivers 34th points with 1 win and 1 top 5 should not be in the playoffs. - The playoffs should have 10 drivers, not 16. The driver that wins the regular season championship and the driver that wins the most regular season races should get a first round playoff bye. Also the driver with the most wins should get 15 playoff points. If a driver wins both the regular season championship and gets the most win then the driver with the next most wins would get 10 additional playoff points and a first round bye. Positions 3-8 would be determined based on who has the most wins in the regular season. Then positions 9 and 10 will be based on the next 2 highest in points that do not have the most wins. - The first round would consist with positions 3-10. Drivers do not automatically advance with a win, drivers should have to perform for every race. The bottom 2 points would be eliminated after 3 races. - The next round will have the top 8 remaining with the playoff points reseting, and same with the first round, except the bottom 4 in points would be eliminated rather than 2. - That would set up the championship 4, it would come down to the final 4 races rather than only 1 race. The playoff points would reset, and the driver with the most points after the 4 races would be the champion. This might not be a perfect system but to me it rewards winning and consistency and not performing for only 1 race. It is also can be entertaining enough to where the championship can still be close, but you can have a game 7 moment that’s built organically rather than one that is forced down our throats. You can still have a driver get hot at the right time and win the championship but they would have to work harder to win the championship rather than just winning one or two races. Here would be the hypothetical playoffs and champions under my format from 2017-2023 (under the stage point and playoff point era) and also the current 2024 playoffs 2017 Byes: Martin Truex Jr, Kyle Larson Next Most Wins: Jimmie Johnson,Kyle Busch,Brad Keselowski, Ricky Stenhouse Jr, Denny Hamlin, and Kevin Harvick Next Best in points: Chase Elliott, Jamie McMurray Round of 10 drivers eliminated: Jamie McMurray,Ricky Stenhouse Jr Round of 8 eliminated: Kyle Busch,Kyle Larson,Chase Elliott, Jimmie Johnson Championship 4 final standings 1. Martin Truex Jr 5282 2. Kevin Harvick 5203 3. Brad Keselowski 5177 4. Denny Hamlin 5144 2018 Byes: Kyle Busch,Kevin Harvick Next Most wins: Martin Truex Jr,Clint Bowyer,Brad Keselowski,Joey Logano,Chase Elliott, Kurt Busch Next Best in points: Ryan Blaney,Kyle Larson Drivers Eliminated Round of 10: Clint Bowyer,Kyle Larson Drivers Eliminated Round of 8: Chase Elliott,Kurt Busch,Ryan Blaney,Brad Keselowski Championship 4 Final Standings 1. Kyle Busch 5243 2. Kevin Harvick 5205 3. Martin Truex Jr 5204 4. Joey Logano 5175 2019 Byes: Kyle Busch,Denny Hamlin Next Most wins: Martin Truex Jr, Kevin Harvick,Brad Keselowski,Joey Logano, Chase Elliott, Kurt Busch Next best points: Kyle Larson,Ryan Blaney Drivers Eliminated round of 10: Ryan Blaney,Kurt Busch Drivers Eliminated round of 8: Joey Logano,Chase Elliott,Brad Keselowski, Kyle Larson Championship 4 Final Standings: 1. Kyle Busch 5236 2. Martin Truex Jr 5221 3. Kevin Harvick 5200 4. Denny Hamlin 5199 2020 Byes: Kevin Harvick,Denny Hamlin Next Most wins: Brad Keselowski,Joey Logano,Chase Elliott,Ryan Blaney,Alex Bowman, Martin Truex Jr Next Best in points: Aric Almirola,Kyle Busch Drivers eliminated round of 10: Aric Almirola,Ryan Blaney Drivers Eliminated round of 8: Joey Logano,Brad Keselowski,Kyle Busch,Alex Bowman Championship 4 Final Standings 1. Denny Hamlin 5225 2. Chase Elliott 5209 3. Kevin Harvick 5202 4. Martin Truex Jr 5160 2021 Byes: Kyle Larson,Ryan Blaney Next Most wins: Martin Truex Jr, Kyle Busch, Chase Elliott,Alex Bowman, William Byron, Joey Logano Next Best points: Denny Hamlin,Kevin Harvick Drivers Eliminated round of 10: Kyle Busch,William Byron Drivers eliminated round of 8: Chase Elliott,Martin Truex Jr,Kevin Harvick, Alex Bowman Championship 4 Final Standings 1. Kyle Larson 5284 2. Denny Hamlin 5183 3. Ryan Blaney 5151 4. Joey Logano 5105 2022 Byes: Chase Elliott, Joey Logano Next most wins: William Byron,Denny Hamlin,Kyle Larson,Ross Chastain, Tyler Reddick, Kevin Harvick Next Most points: Ryan Blaney,Martin Truex Jr Round of 10 Elimination: Tyler Reddick,Kevin Harvick Round of 8 Elimination: William Byron,Ross Chastain,Martin Truex Jr,Kyle Larson Championship 4 Final standings 1. Joey Logano 5210 2. Chase Elliott 5167 3. Ryan Blaney 5166 4. Denny Hamlin 5163 2023 Byes: William Byron, Martin Truex Jr Next Most wins: Kyle Busch,Denny Hamlin,Kyle Larson,Chris Buescher,Christopher Bell,Ross Chastain Next Most points: Brad Keselowski, Kevin Harvick Round of 10 elimination: Ross Chastain,Kevin Harvick Round of 8 elimination: Kyle Larson, Martin Truex Jr,Brad Keselowski,Kyle Busch Championship 4 Final standings 1. William Byron 5215 2. Denny Hamlin 5171 3. Christopher Bell 5149 4. Chris Buescher 5139 2024 playoffs Byes: Tyler Reddick,Kyle Larson Next Most wins: Christopher Bell,William Byron,Denny Hamlin,Chase Elliott, Ryan Blaney,Brad Keselowski Next Most points: Ty Gibbs,Martin Truex Jr Current points after Watkins Glen: 3. Christopher Bell +52 4. Chase Elliott +36 5. Ryan Blaney +35 6. William Byron +31 7. Ty Gibbs +12 8. Denny Hamlin +6 9. Brad Keselowski -6 10. Martin Truex Jr -8
I like it because it’s entertaining to watch…plain and simple. Does it ALWAYS crown the most deserving champion? No. But it’s not like you get a Harrison burton or Austin Dillon winning the championship. And the drivers that barely miss out don’t realistically have great chances to win it anyway.
Bruh it wasn't 5 races early thats insane it was one race before the finale. Kenseth beat them so bad NASCAR scuffed up the championship for the next 20 years and counting
I don’t mind the current format, I think it can be a bit of a stretch with anyone making it regardless of points, BUT if I had to put my 2 cents in,….. I would go back to a 10 team playoff format, with 2 spots for a wildcard. Wildcards are the drivers in points positions 11-maybe 15 somewhere around there With the top 2 in with a final race showdown at the end of the regular season, (top 2 in that race are in) Keep the playoff points into the playoffs like how you said, so there isn’t a fresh level playing field, so you still get rewarded for having stage wins, wins etc. Wins don’t guarantee you into the playoffs, but provide a huge points boost to ensure you’re either close or into the top 10 or top 15-16 for the wildcard Wildcard spots could also be determined by tiebreakers with wins so whoever is in that wildcard points battle by the last race, the ones with the wins would be vying for the spots I think it would still bring that excitement to the final 10 races and still make the regular season count if not count more
@@bhp2488 I know and if you think about it the reason why NASCAR isn't going to get rid of the playoffs is really because of their entertainment value and the playoffs system is really nothing else but a joke and it's unfair to the teams it unfair to the drivers and the fans as well too but as much as the fans are screaming at NASCAR to get rid of the playoffs unfortunately it's not going to happen anytime soon and we'll just have to get used to it and because of that people are starting to leave because they sick and tried of seeing their favorite drivers get screwed over because of the playoffs or something happened to their car or whatever and some people blame Matt kensith for winning one race in 2003 and winning the championship with Ryan Newman winning 8 races but he dnf a lot as well too and that's what made NASCAR have a playoff system in the first place and Denny Hamlin is right about he said about how do you even crown a real champion nowadays when most of the time the driver who has dominated the entire season doesn't get that championship at the very end anyway and at this point why even bother anyway I mean at this point NASCAR isn't going care I actually almost thought about quitting after 2014 because of Jeff Gordon and Dale jr in 2015 and you know what im getting so sick and tried of this playoff system its ridiculous and stupid and its benn that way since 2014 and that's the truth and NASCAR is literally like if you don't like the playoffs then just leave.
I think a part of the problem is, NASCAR knows hardcore fans that don’t like it are gonna watch anyway, so they don’t care about their core fan base’s opinions on it, only about the casuals. I don’t like the system, yet I watch every week.
Do you like the current Playoff format?
I'll keep watching it but focus more on the NFL. So I don't care about it. It's too dumb. If they could decrease the races, it would be 25-30 races a year. 5 race runoff with the 2011-2013 format.
No
Not really, no. I'd prefer a full season points format. Nice to see a majority of the playoff drivers have said that they don't care for the playoffs either.
Its aight
No
Denny is literally what we’ve been saying but of course people don’t listen to him because they hate him.
This sums up Hamlin’s entire career
It's crazy too he speaks a lot of Truth
Sadly that’s his own fault for how he handles himself on track. He is right in this situation though.
I feel like people will come to appreciate Denny Hamlin more when he does retire someday.
@@bighand1530
He feels more like a heel than someone who is properly hated, he’ll get a lot of support when he retires or leaves JGR
I agree with Denny, the championship hasn't mattered since this playoff style was introduced. Its sad to see
Now they're realizing the current playoff format is broken??? Wow!!!
Now if only Brainless Steve Phelps can admit the playoffs ARE Gimmicky
@@cito1101 in the state address last year he basically told the fans to stop crying about it
@@JGR4LIFE20 Fans don't matter, advertisers to. No one seems to like this system yet it persists. Someone is keeping it afloat.
Steve Phelps said it himself "The Playoffs are the most legitimate way to crown a champion!" 💀 🤡
Right,what took them long to realize it out of all the 8 or 10 years of the current format it's flawed?
@@naparacingfan9275yeah that pretty much goes to show you that NASCAR is not going to change the playoffs anytime soon anyway.
Every year for 20 years this conversation has been going on...
At least the original Chase format was still pretty good. I wish that they would ditch the win-and-you’re-in and the elimination rounds. With the original Chase format, the best driver would still win, most of the time. With this format, a lot of time, luck plays a big role in it. Kevin Harvick not winning, or at least running for, the 2020 championship showed the major cracks in this system.
@@Tristin471 The fact that Kevin Harvick didn’t make it in the final four.
Almost like it hasn't been a good system for 20 years. The online fanbase seems to hate, the teams hate it, the drivers hate it, the old fans hate it. Yet the ratings aren't bad enough for NASCAR to change it. So who the heck is watching it?
@@quesopassojust don't watch.. simple as that..I mean what you want them to do? You got SVG racing next year in the cup series so I don't think you should be mad. Next year it will be 11 years since the playoffs. Why get mad now? Is it cause your favorite driver not in?
@@bighand1530 Exactly. He ran an amazing year, but because he had 1-2 bad races, he couldn’t run for the championship. Crap format.
I remember when I used to actually like the playoffs. My argument was “If you can’t win when it matters then you don’t deserve the championship” I was so ignorant, but after seeing Harvick miss the championship 4 in 2020 and watching Truex miss the playoffs entirely simply because he didn’t have a win really opened my eyes to how stupid this format really is. The fact a driver last in the standings is considered a championship contender is wild.
I like the playoff system because it does create more drama and can cause deviations from expectations. But I’m not a fan of one win and you’re in. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while and it isn’t right that drivers who remain consistent all season aren’t able to compete for a championship. I was happy when Harrison Burton won at Daytona. I cheered hard when it happened, and he’s a great dude, but he did not earn a chance to compete for a title. If they want to secure spots based on wins, raise it to 3.
Gordon in 04, ESPECIALLY 07, and 2014… robbed!
Well at least your arrogance and naive thinking is mostly gone.
@@johnmunro7548agreed to lose a championship when he had 30is top tens is ridiculous and any format that doesn’t crown that guy the champion is a joke
@@mitchellcook6443 In F1 points, Johnson still beats Gordon 409-380.
This format was exposed very early on when Newman almost won the championship without ever winning a race
2014, right? The first year of the 16 chase drivers?
Yup, bit unfortunately for him, Kevin Harvick beat him to the line at Homestead, thus sealing the fate of Dodge and boosting morale at Ford
@@S.K.R.E.Inc.How so? They were both driving Chevys
I’ve hated it since the second it was announced
Id tolerate the 2004 chase style again but I genuinely want a real season long championship again
Unless Winston comes back or they install a Matt Kenseth rule, full season apparently isn't an option
This format we have now has made me realize the original chase format wasn’t a bad concept at all. I have hated the playoffs since 2020 with what happened to my driver Harvick and will forever hate them but I know nascar isn’t gonna change it cause they want these crazy chaotic moments. I would be all for having a final round for the championship. Instead of doing a winner take all final race make it a final round of 3 races
As someone who has only been watching in the elimination playoffs, I absolutely agree.
From 2004-2013, we did still have a good amount of legitimate champions. 2005, 2006, 2009, 2012, and 2013 would've ended with the same champions. From 2014 to now. Only 3 times was the champion also the champion in full points. Martin Truex in 2017, Kyle Busch in 2019, and Kyle Larson in 2021.
As a fan of the guy who benefited from the 2020 format so yeah chase Elliot it’s a dumb format 6
@@ChrisSterner Someone would have to dig for it, but I think Elliot would've won it in 2022.
I'm 30 almost 31 grew up a Jeff Gordon fan and I have hated the playoffs Chase with a passion Jeff was robbed 3 different times in 2004 2007 and 2014 especially 2007 but they won't ever change because they want chaos and Game 7 moments 🙄
@@spheredhawk67 exactly what you said! Harvick really exposed the playoffs in 2020. They don’t make winning mean more like people who defend the playoffs like to say
I like the hybrid idea, I was talking to someone in a NASCAR FB group about doing something like that recently. One good race does not a champion make.
Hot take: the playoffs isnt about the drivers or teams, its to keep all of the races tv relevant until the end of the season for advertisers and sponsors.
Well, that's gonna be a problem, because 85% of the season is only on cable/streaming, where numbers are less
It’s as if… you just stayed the exact reason why the chase/playoffs was created.
If we get rid of the win and in guarantee and have the championship decided by more than one race the playoffs become at least 10x more tolerable
One race to win it is by far the absolute worst part of it. Everything else is tolerable without that.
Nah, the shootout style still makes it crab shoot
Exactly what I'm saying. Two tweaks and the format gets much better. Perfect? Far from it. But much better
Ryan Blaney really made me turn on this system. I know he won with the situation he was given but a guy with 8 top 5s all season and a 14.1 average finish does not deserve to be champion. The system needs to change.
I hate Blaney’s title, Sure he’s pretty good, But he will never be a champion to me.
@@BraydenBunch58What if he has a great season a wins a championship in that season. Would you consider him one then?
@@thomaspodlesny239 When he has a truly *great* championship season, I’ll consider him a real champion.
@@BraydenBunch58RUclips needs a laugh reaction for comments. Specifically for comments like "he'll never be a champion to me"
Blaney and Logano winning are the most egregious examples of undeserving champions thus far and it's no surprise to me they happened back to back seasons with this insanely stupid format
20 years later and I've yet to hear a justification for the chase/playoffs that would win me over.
Easy. It's for the sponsors/advertisers not the teams/drivers. It keeps the races relevant until the end of the season for sponsors/advertisers.
@@hengineer except that has failed since 2006
Last year when Byron was robbed by this format, it reminded me of every time Jeff Gordon before him was robbed by it. It... turned my hatred of the chase and playoffs to an 11
Yeah same here.
Me too. It destroyed Jeff's last multi-win season when he got wrecked by Brad. I really wanted it for him in 2014 and 2004. I really wanted him to join Earnhardt and Petty as 7 time champions instead of Jimmie.
Jimmie would have gotten a 7-time championship anyway, only it would be later because Jeff Gordon would win it first in 2015 after a 5th in 2004, a 6th in 2005, then the 5-year sweep kicks in, with a 6th in 2011, then it proceeds as normal. It would have been history to see 2 guys in the same team win championships from 2004-2016, and beat record wins at the same time (96 and 88 wins, respectively). But no, Matt Kenseth had to screw it all up...
@@evanwilliams6406 I remember watching that race and let me tell I was all kinds of mad at Brad keslowski and I really wanted to see Jeff Gordon win his 5th piston cup but thanks to Brad keslowski and Ryan Newman that didn't happen thanks a lot Brad and Ryan.
@@evanwilliams6406I wanted Gordon to win his 5th championship more though just so he can tie with Kobe Bryant in titles with the number 24. Him tying or breaking Earnhardt's and Petty's championship record. Eh I don't know kind of tough to know with every season being different and such.
As a fan that came in in 2018, there are pros and cons.
Pro: There is more interest in winning
Con: if a driver like Harrison Burton wins, the playoffs are devalued
Pro: As a Kyle Larson fan, wreckers or checkereds is a somewhat viable option. So long as you’ve won a race or have a lot of points to spare, go out there and race your hardest
Con: This leads to the over aggression we saw this year with Dillion
These are just 2 that i thought of. I would love to see either 2 options. A: a top 25 rule where if you are in the top 25 and win a race, you are in. Or B: 12 man playoff
Edit: for B: 12 man playoff with no win and in. I think that was obvious, but just wanted to clear confusion
To be fair, Briscoe finished 17th behind Busch, only 17 points behind him. Briscoe's season is closer to KFB than people think.
It’s the driver. One will wreck you for the win, one has proven he won’t
Briscoe, Suarez and Cindric were all Top 20 in points so they COULD have an argument. Harrison Burton has no such argument though
@@JackLikesTrackhouse 100% agree. Same if the Dillon win stood.
@@JackLikesTrackhouseAND they proved something by winning a race. I don't mind NASCAR trying to emphasize wins, it's the allowing someone 30th and below that's kinda bizarre
@JackLikesTrackhouse agree those 3 are all upsets ir wildcards they had decent seasons and were able to punch through and steal a spot
Then there's harrison burtin who is last of the full time drivers gets lucky at daytona
That is a waste of a spot
The crazy thing is that it would be so easy to get an intriguing season even with a full season points format. Indycar (which I would consider to have less parity than nascar) has only had 1 season when a driver clinched the championship with races remaining in the last 17 years. So the whole “but…but… fans will complain and ratings will go down if someone clinched before the season ends” argument is stupid.
I partly agree with that but on the other hand lenghth of the season is a problem here. In 17-18 races (IndyCar) it's much easier to not have someone pull away in comparison to 36 races
The ultimate system was the season long Winston Cup points system. "Excitement" be damned. If you're going to have a playoff type elimination format, take the top 16 in points. No win and you're in.
Or add a rule that you need 2 wins and your in to stop the luck wins from getting in
it should be the best 16 drivers. 1 win below 16th isn't getting you in.
Winston format with a Matt Kenseth rule and bigger bonuses for the winner
I don't even want a Matt Kenseth rule. He was the best that season. The consistency was really impressive, and his pit crew, "The Killer Bees," was phenomenal. They earned the Cup with week in, week out performance that met the championship standards of most every major motorsport.
And I don't recall fans actually complaining that he lacked a win. We were **told** that fans complained, as part of NASCAR's campaign to sell the Chase, and that has been the official narrative since. But in my experience, the fans didn't suddenly sour on the championship format back then. Rather, a bunch left because of the Chase, which was transparently more for NASCAR's TV and ad money than for the fans. The Playoffs even more so.
I'm surprised they're actually understanding that the format is broken, after all this time.
There's a lot that needs to be fixed within the sport but this is definitely a major one.
The play-offs make the rest of the season feel like it doesn't matter. NASCAR (and in some cases, the fans) have to deal with the fact that in motorsports, the season will almost never end in a nail-biting finale. That is exactly why big finales are famous/infamous across the racing world and get remembered forever. When every year becomes a spectacle, then no year is spectacular. Imagine of the season-long championship battles we may have been robbed of since the play-offs and even the chase were introduced. It's a damn shame.
I mean hell look at this year. Going into the regular season finale, Reddick and Larson were separated by like 3 points.
The only ones committing ‘ACTIONS DETRIMENTAL TO STOCK CAR RACING’ for the last 20 years is NASCAR themselves with the chase/playoff format.
I like how we’ve had this conversation every year since Harvick 2020
People saying that the playoffs can be fixed is like arguing about weather the foundation of a house is better as brick or wood without realising that the foundation is built on quicksand
The 2004-2013 iteration of the Chase was the perfect middle ground between the old (and proven) season long points format, and the abomination we've had since 2014. I feel like the 2010-12 versions were even better because the points table was easier to follow (a max of 48 points for winning and leading the most laps, and minus a point for each successive position) and there were no stages/stage points.
2011-2013 was the peak years of the format. In that time span, you had one round where Stewart and Edwards literally tied, and the following year BK managed to win his championship with a bit of comfort.
It just worked.
@@Dat-Mudkipexcept in 2013 they added a 13th driver that was just pathetic.
More time than not, the most deserving driver doesnt win the title nowadays, & its all for the name of ENTERTAINMENT
I was never a fan of the original Chase format. And I have ALWAYS hated this Elimination style championship
They gave away Kevin Harvick's last championship to chase Elliot
The current playoff format is what started my falling out of love with modern nascar. The final straw was the introduction of stages and how those laps count towards the race distance when nascar is officially stopping the race.
My opinion? Bring back a full season championship, or a 10 car, 10 race chase where consistency is awarded over all else. Have playoff points give you an extra set of points to start off the chase, that way it still puts emphasis on winning, but you wont get someone winning a race from 40th in points being in the chase because they werent consistent enough to be top 10/12/16 in points.
Then, assuming you want to stage race as nascar as seems to; dont count those laps towards the race distance.
We can fix the format issues as fans. DONT GO TO RACES
There's many ways NASCAR could fix it, some being better than others, but all of them involve changing the current "single race winner take all" championship round.
I’ve always said this. We lost so many fans with playoffs and stages. Wake tf up nascar.
The new car not performing on short tracks and road courses that's really hurt things.
I respect Larry McReynolds as well with Denny Hamlin called out the format. They truly care about the sport, and it's good to see.
I wish Larry was full time again at FOX
Yeah, they screwed up big time demoting him, firing DW, and putting a CRINGE clown in the booth
Going back to the latford system no chase no playoffs, using the points tallies from 2011 onwards where winning was actually rewarded with the extra bonus points, and keeping the stage bonus points while getting rid of the stage cautions, all will make more deserving champions under this system. I like Blaney but he should've never been champion last season and the shit playoff system was exposed then.
It’s likely that Austin Dillon wrecked Joey Logano and Denny Hamlin for the win at Richmond just because NASCAR completely dropped the cutoff rule for "win and you’re in." The desperation that comes with knowing one win can get you into the playoffs, no matter how the rest of your season went, leads to reckless driving like this. Dillon knew that a win would punch his ticket, so he pushed it to the limit, even if it meant wrecking others. This whole system encourages chaos and aggressive moves instead of clean, competitive racing. It’s ridiculous!
I can attest to the fact that I an many others have hated the change since the change in 04
This isn't a "recent" issue at all. For years fans who complained about this have been told if they don't like it, don't watch. But of course the talking heads at nascar try to gaslight everyone into thinking this system has been loved since it's inception.
I would prefer a season long points battle and have no reason to think it would really have a negative impact, but I get the appeal of the eliminations and the playoffs and all that. I just want win and in to go away. I want the 16 playoff drivers to be the 16 best drivers of the year. The whole point of a playoff system is it is to allow the best teams from the regular season to compete against one another for the championship.
I’m an older fan I like a full season. This isn’t Football, NHL, Baseball or Basketball. This is supposed to be racing. They compete all year against each other. Best team and driver even if they top5 everyone to death should win the championship. Great video. Side note some of this technology is killing racing.
Just give whoever wins a bonus 15 points (not playoff points) therefore if you win and get both stages you get 75 max still rewards the win yes, but if you’re in 30th and win yes you jump a bunch in the points but it guarantees you nothing. Allows you to only have a bad week not a bad 25 weeks pre playoffs, also go back to the 10 race finale
I can't stand NASCAR trying to force a 1992 Hooters 500 at the end of every season....
Well, they wanted late Millennials (1992-1998) and early Zoomers (1999-2003) to experience what was so hype about NASCAR, yet they screwed up more than enhanced. New $#!++y tracks, lackluster format, the COT, and the recession of 2008 all contributed to them screwing it up
Playoffs should have been left to the ball sports where you have between the best 7-11 guys on a team facing the 2nd best 7-11 guys for the crown.
Do you really want to see a 1v1 between 2 drivers for 500 miles? Nah. Winston cup points style is how it always should have been.
The system is trash, and has been trash since 2004.
These days the moment the race ends I tune out. The championship is irrelevant.
I come to this channel and check the real standings, because thats actually interesting to me.
I see fans posting the system was exposed in 2014, due to Ryan Newman. But if you really look at the Chase/Playoffs, it was actually Kurt Busch who exposed the system when he won the first Chase.
7:42 then they'd be fined for Actions Detrimental to Stock Car Racing. Something that may have influenced a few podcasts here and there.
As gen z the demographic nascar seems to want to attract with this format. I hate it, too complex when I try to explain to curious friends.
Here’s what I propose, keep stages and stage points but ditch stage cautions everywhere. Get rid of win and you’re in, top 10 in points are all who qualify. Bring back points for leading a lap and the most laps, 1 for a lap, 5 for most. The playoffs are simple top ten have points reset and fight it out for ten races. This will also help cases where a leader gets wrecked before stages but doesn’t give a crazy amount of points if you only lead in green flag cycles
Your sure your genz?
I’m so scared that other series are taking interest in this format. Right now v8 supercars are talking about introducing this and i hate it.
But at least they would probably do something like 10-race chase and not elimination style playoffs with 1 race determining a champion
I agree with Denny the Chase was a closer format to the old school System.
Arguably the chase was worse as it created the Jimmie Johnson reign of terror.
NASCAR needs an overhaul of leadership and decision makers.
Little to no driver opinions on track schedule and or rules changes.
With Dale Jr running the show
I personally dislike it as it takes away from the guys who put together a really good season but cant put together a good string of 10 races and it also means that a guy could win 35/36 races but loose the championship if he looses that last race
The playoffs to me feel more like a Mario cart points format than one for a serious elite racing series that is the NASCAR Cup Series. I can just imagine in my head Mario saying: Win and you’re in! or, Overtime! lol. I really want them to return to the Winston Cup style points where the guy with the best finishes all year win it, but I don’t think this is likely.
Ironic, cause there's 1 guy in the polls that does the entire season with the Mario Kart 8 points style (though DS would have been better). Yeah, unless Winston returns, a Matt Kenseth rule is established, or Alex Bowman wins the championship, it ain't likely
The reason its popping off is because big name drivers (Kyle Busch, Chris Buescher, Bubba Wallace, etc..) missed the playoffs, and people that are running in the top 30s or worse weekend and weekout make it. (Harrison, technically Truex if he keeps fucking himself up, Briscoe who was pretty much absolutely nowhere the whole year, same for Suarez)
No. Too much focus on wins and yields dirty driving. Bring back the Latford! I know it’ll probably never happen, but one could wish. If anything, maybe drop the “win and you’re in” during the regular season?
I agree keep the point system in place keep stage racing but throw no caution then have a season long system bingo fixed and now the best driver always wins
OPTION ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is the only way A fair champion is crowned, it’s good enough for every other Motorsport on the entire planet. Second, 2021 f1 season. That alone is reason enough, best championship fight I have seen or ever will see, all the way to the final race without a stupid gimmick to make it that way.
Thank you for pointing out the media’s role in this playoff format. You mentioned Sirius radio and I must say that the media personality who is most disgustingly up NASCAR’s butt is Dave Moody. He collects his little paycheck from NASCAR so of course he won’t dare go against NASCAR or ever admit that what they do on any given week is wrong, whether it’s the “playoffs”, the rules, the Car, etc. I can’t believe that anyone calls in to his show because all he does is belittle and reprimand the fan telling them how they are wrong and he and NASCAR are right. It’s very rare that he will engage in a debate with the fan and if he did I’m sure it would help the sport by giving the fans a voice where NASCAR might hear it.
My suggestions:
Get rid of Win and In but make wins worth a significant amount of extra points. Change from 40 points to 50 or 60. Getting 60 points for a win over 35 for second would be pretty big, but not big enough for Harrison Burton to jump into the playoffs.
Hybrid playoffs- I like the 8 and 8 format 5 races each. 5 races makes it so a one off Dega crash or fluke winner doesn't ruin the whole thing, and having it not be "whoever can race a flat oval best" wins the championship in Phoenix.
I’ll say this on the matter…
Yes, this is the nature of the playoffs and other sports playoffs have been getting way too out of hand as well lately (like you have a better odds to make the postseason than being in the draft lottery in the NBA with their play-in format for 20 out of the 30 teams being technically in the “playoffs” or CFP expanding to 12 teams is a bit overkill when you still have too many bowls for just being .500 throughout the season)… but NASCAR and those other sports are like comparing Apples to Oranges.
Sure, we have more parity now and it’s cut back the Buschwhacking for making the lower series more competitive without Cup guys running every week to take away from any drivers development… but, NASCAR isn’t the same sport as an NFL or MLB who have similar playoff rules. Playoffs and auto racing are two oxymoronic things that just don’t belong in the same sentence.
I feel like Dillon’s Richmond win and the actions around the late restart broke the camels back on this one, but what hairbrained idea will their be next to make it so we get more Mickey Mouse Champions than any legit champions.
Give me back the pre-2004 era where the whole season mattered and not just a few races at the end. Heck, it’s going to be even more chaotic by adding Talladega in the middle of the Round of 8.
They need to take F1’s lead and go back to whole season points to determine a championship.
We have been complaining about the chase since it started and continued to get worse.......
Yeah they DON'T listen they only listen to the whiny fans who want nonstop excitement
Alright, this might be a bit controversial, but here's how I would change it:
Go back to a full season and get rid of Stage cautions. Keep the way points are awarded now, but award 50 points for winning a race and make it where every race has 4 stages equally dividing the race into quarters. That way, when rain affects the race, we don't have to worry about whether or not they've gone past halfway because the end of stage 2 is the halfway point. To make practice and qualifying more interesting, give points for the top 5 in practice and the top 5 in qualifying. Lastly, the driver with the fastest lap and/or fastest pit stop gets 1 point each at the end of every race.
“Oh we need the playoffs for the story lines”…. I remember back in the 80’s and 90’s (yes I’m that old)there never being a lack of story lines….in fact it was better because there wasn’t an over saturation of stories that it drowned out what was happening on the track (which I think is part of the reason why the race coverage has gotten worse)…but that’s just one fans opinion from watching the sport for 40 years
I just don’t think one race should decide a championship
I will quote that one driver in saying "it sucks ass"
I would love to see the season long points system. Just give alot more points for winning a race. And I'd like to see drivers get points for leading laps again. I would also like to see something similar to what indycar does for the indy 500. Give double points for crown jewel races. For the most part, i do like stage breaks in the cup series but prefer them with no cautions. They to get rid of them in xfinity and trucks. The races are too and the stage breaks don't allow for as much strategy.
I think at this point we really need to do something drastic. If it were up to me I’d take the Latford system and simply it down. Top 5 will have its own ranks while every other position is just a one point difference.
1. 50
2. 45
3. 41
4. 38
5. 36
6. 35
7. 34
etc.
Then add bonus points for Winning the pole, Most laps led, and fastest race lap. No stages. No post season of any kind.
I've always thought this Playoff format, along with the playoff name itself was dumb ever since it was implemented especially the 1 race championship. Championships are nowhere near as legitimate as they once were. The Chase was WAY more legitimate than what we have now. I'd prefer a full season points format but know it'll never happen.
Winston was chased out by the government, and Matt Kenseth ruined the format. If Bowman wins the championship, we might see it get killed off for a taste of the past (meaning, 2004-2010 format)
@@S.K.R.E.Inc. I'd love to see that. That would also silence the fans who want Bowman kicked out of HMS.
Broadly stated, I just don't like the state of nascar in 2024. Playoffs, stages, green white checkered, atlanta, the tv package, and probably more I'm forgetting.
The gen 7 car, this year there's been 11 green-white-checkers...pathetic!
I’ve been wanting the hybrid 10 race chase format for so long I’m glad it was brought up in the video 👍👍
I remember in 2022 when Truex was in the top 5 on points and narrowly missed the playoffs because of all of the new winners that year. Playoffs can be entertaining but also frustrating at the same time
The mad scientist creates a monster and says 'don't worry it's all good everyone will love it, nothing bad will happen'. Years later the scientist has gone in sane and the monster has gotten unpredictable. As bad as the Austin Dillion situation was they saw a preview with spin gate. NASCAR created this monster, bring back the seasonal point system please.
I'm convinced that the playoff format helped chase Carl Edwards out of the sport, and as time continues, it's going to be a barrier for other skilled drivers to come in.
And it's also really sad to see college football make the exact same mistake......
If 2016 BS made Carl quit I can only imagine how much he'd hate it now, and that's why he's not come back.
They have 26 races to win a race, ONE RACE! As a professional Nascar driver that should be obtainable. Yeah sometimes it lets crap in like Burton but then dont lose to him! You cant please people, if you went back to the chase or top 10 go, all the fans of drivers who finished 11-16 would bitch that their guy didnt make it. Hamlin is just salty cause he isnt a champion. If he won this year he would be fine with the current playoff system
Thank you for suggesting option three. It's the best one to reward old school consistency and the glory of winning. I would also cap the playoff field once again at ten and eliminate "win and you're in". If you're not looking or running like a championship contender during a majority of weeks throughout the season, you shouldn't be competing for one, regardless of getting the feel good one every now and then.
Use playoff points from wins and stage wins as the gaps between the top ten once the final ten races start. From there, most points get you the title like 2004-2013. Finally, attempt to change up the playoff races as often as possible without it feeling too "one and done" for tracks that deserve playoff dates
Bubba is in the best season of his career? Hes 17th in points lol thats embarrassing
I wish they would realize that the racing itself should be the entertainment, not a phony playoff points format!
Man that last bit where you said to appease the crowd that wants wins to matter more. How can winning a race not mean anything? It's wild to hear something like that
The way I see it, Nascar saw that the value of a season long championship and even a chase long championship was not equal in value to the ability to keep more people's fan bases engaged for longer. For them, being a champion is a party at the end of the year, an announcement at the banquet, and a line in the history books. But being able to keep more drivers actively engaged and elevated season to season has certainly done something even if the winner isn't as "deserving"
To this point in time the champion on the old style points was at least in contention with 2 races to go. But we're stacking this deck more and more against that being a given. We nearly had to kick out a win and in driver a couple years ago because the points leader hadn't won a race. Nearly half the drivers in this year's playoffs are only factors because they won a single time. And that's not even to bring up Kyle Busch's first championship.
To give an answer, this points system is more fun and gives much more to talk about, but I haven't cared about champions since the talk of waivers and eliminations began. I like that drivers like Chris Buscher, Bubba Wallace, Harrison Burton, and Daniel Suarez get more time in the sunlight but a single race isn't the stage for a season long championship.
Winston cup format back.
This playoff system is a total disaster! Three drivers who would be top 10 in points under the old system are missing out, while two guys well outside the top 20 sneak in just because they got lucky one weekend? How is that even remotely fair? Steve Phelps and NASCAR seriously dropped the ball thinking this would be a good idea. Rewarding fluke wins over season-long consistency completely undermines the competition. Phelps needs to wake up and realize this system is ruining the integrity of the sport! It's honestly embarrassing at this point.
It has become a joke I struggle to watch
I will occasionally watch some races but do I watch every race anymore no because the season doesn’t matter anymore and it nice a farce we had a format that crown a champion that deserved it EVERY YEAR no the driver stats may not be what we liked but there was ZERO doubt that the driver was the best from that year
I fell out of NASCAR for along time. Gordon, Jr., Wallace, Martin were my guys. I fell out of nascar around 09-10. So I knew who Denny was but not really. He gets too much hate. His podcast is good. He’s a great villain but he’s authentic. I like Chastain, Bush, Larson, Denny. BK. General a ford guy. None of my guys ever drive a ford really. Joe Briscoe, I think he will turn around at Gibbs.
I'd like it if they went back to the top 10 but have a point systems for just amongst themselves. Since we have Stages now you could incorporate them into it as well. Under this, they basically points-wise race amongst themselves so kinda like the Championship 4 but the points do matter and they do this from race 1 to 10, no eliminations except of course for mathematical & at the end may the best driver win.
What I mean by race amongst themselves, despite their field finish they get the points based on where the finish when you just factor in the top 10 in points that were locked in. So for example using the results from the Southern 500, with Blaney finishing last, instead of getting 37th place points, he would get 10th place points since he finished the lowest of the top 10 in points & so on & so forth. Of course this is with the 2000 points added after race 26 with them locked in.
I'm fine with it. I wish Buescher had made the playoffs though
I called into their show and essentially said the same thing Denny said but I got ridiculed and chastised by Larry and Danielle. Interesting.
Once again Dennys right
there are 4 drivers outside the top 16 that are not in the playoffs (Buescher, Wallace, Chastain, and Busch). it’s hard to say that NASCAR the 16 best drivers competing for its championship when there are 4 guys in the top 16 who are on the outside looking in.
I wish they could at least segment the 2 format, like making the driver's champion in the chase format but the owner's would be on season points. Something to recognize that the fans exist
I believe that they should go back to the Winston cup points style sense the new car has "parody" it should work itsself out. (I understand the problems with the new car but its still the closest) I hate to say IROC but its whats basically needed at this point for parody in the sport and cost caping. Let em change springs shocks camber and caster but thats it. No r and d, no team "war rooms no telemetry let em battle it out at the track
Not always having parity is fine by me. It's part of why I watch. There are plenty of series that are fully spec, use balance of power, etc., I want to see at least some innovation as that can make the difference some weekends. We have plenty of "parity" now and enough of the tracks people can barely pass at.
My personal thought on what to do for the playoffs is...
Instead of doing the win and your in the first 26 races, make them just full season points. Top 16 in points make it in. Then it's basically the same playoffs we have after that. Win a race and your in the next round.
Might not be the greatest idea... might need to add more... but it's a start of something lol
I mean, Im fine with the playoffs for the most part, but this year is the least interested I am in it. They really need to bring back the top 30 rule, but instead make it a Top 25 or 20. It could be similar to the Wild Card Chase in 2011-13. Win and youre in before the end of the regular season also needs to go. To me, that would help make the playoff field better.
This format sucks. Like you said Beuscher, Wallace, Chastain, and Busch have more points than some of the drivers in and format has ruined Great Underdog Wins
Here’s what I think we should do. I’m not an anti playoff person. I’m not even an anti elimination style playoff format. But there needs to be a lot of changes to the system.
- First off get rid of win and you are in the playoffs because drivers 34th points with 1 win and 1 top 5 should not be in the playoffs.
- The playoffs should have 10 drivers, not 16. The driver that wins the regular season championship and the driver that wins the most regular season races should get a first round playoff bye. Also the driver with the most wins should get 15 playoff points. If a driver wins both the regular season championship and gets the most win then the driver with the next most wins would get 10 additional playoff points and a first round bye. Positions 3-8 would be determined based on who has the most wins in the regular season. Then positions 9 and 10 will be based on the next 2 highest in points that do not have the most wins.
- The first round would consist with positions 3-10. Drivers do not automatically advance with a win, drivers should have to perform for every race. The bottom 2 points would be eliminated after 3 races.
- The next round will have the top 8 remaining with the playoff points reseting, and same with the first round, except the bottom 4 in points would be eliminated rather than 2.
- That would set up the championship 4, it would come down to the final 4 races rather than only 1 race. The playoff points would reset, and the driver with the most points after the 4 races would be the champion.
This might not be a perfect system but to me it rewards winning and consistency and not performing for only 1 race. It is also can be entertaining enough to where the championship can still be close, but you can have a game 7 moment that’s built organically rather than one that is forced down our throats. You can still have a driver get hot at the right time and win the championship but they would have to work harder to win the championship rather than just winning one or two races.
Here would be the hypothetical playoffs and champions under my format from 2017-2023 (under the stage point and playoff point era) and also the current 2024 playoffs
2017
Byes: Martin Truex Jr, Kyle Larson
Next Most Wins: Jimmie Johnson,Kyle Busch,Brad Keselowski, Ricky Stenhouse Jr, Denny Hamlin, and Kevin Harvick
Next Best in points: Chase Elliott, Jamie McMurray
Round of 10 drivers eliminated: Jamie McMurray,Ricky Stenhouse Jr
Round of 8 eliminated: Kyle Busch,Kyle Larson,Chase Elliott, Jimmie Johnson
Championship 4 final standings
1. Martin Truex Jr 5282
2. Kevin Harvick 5203
3. Brad Keselowski 5177
4. Denny Hamlin 5144
2018
Byes: Kyle Busch,Kevin Harvick
Next Most wins: Martin Truex Jr,Clint Bowyer,Brad Keselowski,Joey Logano,Chase Elliott, Kurt Busch
Next Best in points: Ryan Blaney,Kyle Larson
Drivers Eliminated Round of 10: Clint Bowyer,Kyle Larson
Drivers Eliminated Round of 8: Chase Elliott,Kurt Busch,Ryan Blaney,Brad Keselowski
Championship 4 Final Standings
1. Kyle Busch 5243
2. Kevin Harvick 5205
3. Martin Truex Jr 5204
4. Joey Logano 5175
2019
Byes: Kyle Busch,Denny Hamlin
Next Most wins: Martin Truex Jr, Kevin Harvick,Brad Keselowski,Joey Logano, Chase Elliott, Kurt Busch
Next best points: Kyle Larson,Ryan Blaney
Drivers Eliminated round of 10: Ryan Blaney,Kurt Busch
Drivers Eliminated round of 8: Joey Logano,Chase Elliott,Brad Keselowski, Kyle Larson
Championship 4 Final Standings:
1. Kyle Busch 5236
2. Martin Truex Jr 5221
3. Kevin Harvick 5200
4. Denny Hamlin 5199
2020
Byes: Kevin Harvick,Denny Hamlin
Next Most wins: Brad Keselowski,Joey Logano,Chase Elliott,Ryan Blaney,Alex Bowman, Martin Truex Jr
Next Best in points: Aric Almirola,Kyle Busch
Drivers eliminated round of 10: Aric Almirola,Ryan Blaney
Drivers Eliminated round of 8: Joey Logano,Brad Keselowski,Kyle Busch,Alex Bowman
Championship 4 Final Standings
1. Denny Hamlin 5225
2. Chase Elliott 5209
3. Kevin Harvick 5202
4. Martin Truex Jr 5160
2021
Byes: Kyle Larson,Ryan Blaney
Next Most wins: Martin Truex Jr, Kyle Busch, Chase Elliott,Alex Bowman, William Byron, Joey Logano
Next Best points: Denny Hamlin,Kevin Harvick
Drivers Eliminated round of 10: Kyle Busch,William Byron
Drivers eliminated round of 8: Chase Elliott,Martin Truex Jr,Kevin Harvick, Alex Bowman
Championship 4 Final Standings
1. Kyle Larson 5284
2. Denny Hamlin 5183
3. Ryan Blaney 5151
4. Joey Logano 5105
2022
Byes: Chase Elliott, Joey Logano
Next most wins: William Byron,Denny Hamlin,Kyle Larson,Ross Chastain, Tyler Reddick, Kevin Harvick
Next Most points: Ryan Blaney,Martin Truex Jr
Round of 10 Elimination: Tyler Reddick,Kevin Harvick
Round of 8 Elimination: William Byron,Ross Chastain,Martin Truex Jr,Kyle Larson
Championship 4 Final standings
1. Joey Logano 5210
2. Chase Elliott 5167
3. Ryan Blaney 5166
4. Denny Hamlin 5163
2023
Byes: William Byron, Martin Truex Jr
Next Most wins: Kyle Busch,Denny Hamlin,Kyle Larson,Chris Buescher,Christopher Bell,Ross Chastain
Next Most points: Brad Keselowski, Kevin Harvick
Round of 10 elimination: Ross Chastain,Kevin Harvick
Round of 8 elimination: Kyle Larson, Martin Truex Jr,Brad Keselowski,Kyle Busch
Championship 4 Final standings
1. William Byron 5215
2. Denny Hamlin 5171
3. Christopher Bell 5149
4. Chris Buescher 5139
2024 playoffs
Byes: Tyler Reddick,Kyle Larson
Next Most wins: Christopher Bell,William Byron,Denny Hamlin,Chase Elliott, Ryan Blaney,Brad Keselowski
Next Most points: Ty Gibbs,Martin Truex Jr
Current points after Watkins Glen:
3. Christopher Bell +52
4. Chase Elliott +36
5. Ryan Blaney +35
6. William Byron +31
7. Ty Gibbs +12
8. Denny Hamlin +6
9. Brad Keselowski -6
10. Martin Truex Jr -8
Iceberg complaining about the playoffs again...must be a day that ends in Y
I like it because it’s entertaining to watch…plain and simple. Does it ALWAYS crown the most deserving champion? No. But it’s not like you get a Harrison burton or Austin Dillon winning the championship. And the drivers that barely miss out don’t realistically have great chances to win it anyway.
Full season points would be better at crowning a real champion
The last time a full system points was used, it was clinched 5 races early and apparently, the board cried foul at it
Bruh it wasn't 5 races early thats insane it was one race before the finale. Kenseth beat them so bad NASCAR scuffed up the championship for the next 20 years and counting
Honestly if everything in this format stayed the same except for wins locking you in I think that would be fine
I don’t mind the current format, I think it can be a bit of a stretch with anyone making it regardless of points, BUT if I had to put my 2 cents in,…..
I would go back to a 10 team playoff format, with 2 spots for a wildcard.
Wildcards are the drivers in points positions 11-maybe 15 somewhere around there
With the top 2 in with a final race showdown at the end of the regular season, (top 2 in that race are in)
Keep the playoff points into the playoffs like how you said, so there isn’t a fresh level playing field, so you still get rewarded for having stage wins, wins etc.
Wins don’t guarantee you into the playoffs, but provide a huge points boost to ensure you’re either close or into the top 10 or top 15-16 for the wildcard
Wildcard spots could also be determined by tiebreakers with wins so whoever is in that wildcard points battle by the last race, the ones with the wins would be vying for the spots
I think it would still bring that excitement to the final 10 races and still make the regular season count if not count more
You know one thing that really doesn’t work? Constantly changing the rules. That directly coincided with ratings falling.
...and the cars...the format...everything.
I HATE HATE the stage racing AND the playoffs. Im a 31 year old and I don’t follow nascar as close as I can BECAUSE of the format
Go back to a year long championship with the current points system. Problem solved.
Like to see that but you already know it's not going to happen anytime soon anyway.
@@KidLatin27 You right.
@@bhp2488 I know and if you think about it the reason why NASCAR isn't going to get rid of the playoffs is really because of their entertainment value and the playoffs system is really nothing else but a joke and it's unfair to the teams it unfair to the drivers and the fans as well too but as much as the fans are screaming at NASCAR to get rid of the playoffs unfortunately it's not going to happen anytime soon and we'll just have to get used to it and because of that people are starting to leave because they sick and tried of seeing their favorite drivers get screwed over because of the playoffs or something happened to their car or whatever and some people blame Matt kensith for winning one race in 2003 and winning the championship with Ryan Newman winning 8 races but he dnf a lot as well too and that's what made NASCAR have a playoff system in the first place and Denny Hamlin is right about he said about how do you even crown a real champion nowadays when most of the time the driver who has dominated the entire season doesn't get that championship at the very end anyway and at this point why even bother anyway I mean at this point NASCAR isn't going care I actually almost thought about quitting after 2014 because of Jeff Gordon and Dale jr in 2015 and you know what im getting so sick and tried of this playoff system its ridiculous and stupid and its benn that way since 2014 and that's the truth and NASCAR is literally like if you don't like the playoffs then just leave.
I think a part of the problem is, NASCAR knows hardcore fans that don’t like it are gonna watch anyway, so they don’t care about their core fan base’s opinions on it, only about the casuals.
I don’t like the system, yet I watch every week.